Mount Everest 2018

2018 Overview The interest in climbing Everest continues to increase with little impact from any bad publicity including deaths, risks or government policies. I anticipate another busy year on both sides with over 800 attempts and ten people attempting to summit without using supplemental oxygen. If the weather holds, there could be over 200 summits from the Chinese/Tibet (north) side and over 400 from the Nepal (south) side.

Sadly I believe 6 to 8 people will die on Everest this spring, mostly on the Nepal side from inexperienced climbers climbing with unqualified guides. This has been the pattern the past few years. Also, I expect to see record frostbite and helicopter “rescues” since the helicopter services are now controlled by Nepali guide companies and they make a significant profit from the insurance coverage of climbers and trekkers.

Speaking of supplemental oxygen, look for a few of the high-end guide companies to put clients on 6 or even 8 liters per minute flow rates on the summit push. This trend is designed to increase the summit rates on so-called “rapid or speed” expeditions and clients who want every advantage regardless of style issues. The normal flow rate is between 2 and 4 lpm.

Also look for more climbers than ever from China and India. As I’ve detailed in the past, China requires all Chinese Nationals to have a summit of an 8000-meter peak before climbing Everest from China so many simply go to Nepal where there are no rules. As for the Indian climbers, it has become folklore that if you summit Everest you can leverage that into fame and fortune – a huge miscalculation by so many – but many Nepal/India guide companies have come forth to meet this market demand.

As we enter the 2018 season, the Nepal government is making headlines by banning climbers with disabilities, specifically double amputees and blind climbers. There has already been an impact. Hari Buddha Magar, a former British Gurkha soldier who lost both legs in Afghanistan, postponed his Everest attempt a year hoping to persuade officials to allow him to climb.

They also banned solo climbing and repeated previous demands that all foreign climbers must hire local guides. Amazingly they clarified that all support staff who summit would receive a summit certificate. All of these new rules apply to all mountains in Nepal, including Everest. Finally, in a blatantly political move, authorities increased life insurance for the phony job of Liaison Officers.

I have written a lot about these decisions so in this post will come back to my bottom line: the Ministry of Tourism is only interested in money. The publicity they receive from headlines feeds their egos and does not contribute to climber safety. They continue to mismanage the world’s highest mountain like their own private bank. Eventually, climbers will have enough of this, stop supporting the government and move to the north side where the Chinese, while unpredictable, manage Everest with common sense and is safer.

A few months ago I took a hard look at the safety record of both sides but this time factored in the deaths that have occurred on the non-standard routes. It changed my thinking completely.

Of the 8,306 summits through 2017, only 265 climbers used a “non-standard” route in other words, not the South Col – Southeast Ridge or North Col – Northeast Ridge. There were 80 deaths on these routes – much higher than I thought there would be. This is 28% of the total deaths and a death rate of 2.12. The remaining deaths break out for the Northesast Ridge (Tibet) 71 or a death rate of .96 and for the Southeast Ridge (Nepal) 137 – a death rate of 1.11. Clearly, this shows climbing from the south side is more dangerous than from the north.

"the Ministry of Tourism is only interested in money. The publicity they receive from headlines feeds their egos and does not contribute to climber safety."

Well, that gives them a lot in common with the douchebags who pay to climb Everest, doesn't it!

I'm here just for more dirt on Sandy Hill.

No problem! I'll just climb K2 instead!

Mountaineering is so weird to me. And to almost everyone I know: I've never met anyone who understands it (although I've never met anyone who is a mountaineer). It's a sport for assholes.

Yep, another season of overprivileged assholes paying tens of thousands of dollars for the very real possibility of becoming a well-dressed popsicle/trail marker for future overprivileged assholes.

It's always a joke how the charity climbers spend $70,000 for a climb that raises $1,500 for their cause.

The true test of a narcissist.

And here's this subject's theme song.

......

Yay, my favourite thread.

How many deaths will there be from HACE and HAPE this year?

R11 gurrrrl!

If I pay someone to drag me across difficult parts of the Appalachian Trail, carry my gear, help me pitch a tent and give me medicine as needed, do I get to claim I "trailed?"

It's sad how all this continues to play out, despite all the tragedies and debacles well-documented.

Thanks for the heads up OP. I've followed his blog for a few years now when the link is posted here.

So summiting will happen around mid-May but they are all heading up now. He has a bunch of blogs/twitter acct links of climbers who are making attempts. I just read the one for a woman, her 3rd attempt and even before setting out, staying at a guesthouse, she fell into a cellar and wrenched her knee. Boom, done.

Sandy Hill rode a human up and down that big rock. Her incompetence may have contributed to a death or two.

There's a guy going for a record 7 summits in 4 months. He just did a winter ascent of Denali like 5 days ago. Everest is the last one.

Bump

Can anyone tell us why Sagarmatha is such an insatiable bottom?

The teams are congregating to acclimatise at Base Camp.

Plenty of hoeing will ensure. A lot of these climbers are 'hill gay' which means they'll mess around with guys on expeditions if there aren't any desirable females around.

News Rules and Screening

Dinesh Bhattarai, chief at the Tourism Department that issues climbing permits, told the Kathmandu Post that there has been lack of oversight over expeditions causing controversy and tragedy and “We learned many lessons from the last season. We don’t want to repeat those mistakes,” He went on to repeat the same list of new rules previously published that will make #Everest2018 safer, in his view. They included:

Team leaders, climbers, high-altitude climbing guides, government appointed liaison officers and agencies handling the expedition are required to follow new rules strictly

The Tourism Department will verify the health certificates of the climbers more rigorously.

Liaison officers we will have their locations strictly monitored. They have to wait at the base camp until the expedition is completed and act as a regulator so that controversies on Everest are minimized

Each climber must have at least five oxygen cylinders each

The government has also strictly prohibited disseminating controversial messages or broadcasts without prior approval.

On this last item, this is similar to what Nepal tried to do in 2008 when the Chinese closed the north side for the Olympic torch ceremony on the summit. They were fearing protests over Tibet. Climbers were told to sign an agreement that required all communications – written and verbal – to be cleared through a liaison officer (who wasn’t there). As you can imagine, nothing was really enforced. But then an American climber posted an offensive sign on his tent at Camp 1. I was there in 2008 was remember being told that all sat phones would be confiscated and could only be used under the supervision of a Nepali/Chinese solider. They actually came around and took our phones. We had to go to the army camp and request to make a call while an armed guard stood by listening to the conversation. This lasted for only a few days.

This year’s rules seem to revolve around a report last year in the Himalayan Times that Sherpas found 4 dead bodies in a tent at the South Col – it was incorrect but went viral creating embarrassment for Nepal and hurting the finely tuned safety reputation that they try to manage. He also mentioned the report that the Hillary Step had collapsed, apparently believing that telling the world that an earthquake might have altered the landscape would hurt business.

Bhattarai commented on this new screening rule that only applies to “controversial issues” and “Our intention is not to stop the dissemination of news. However, for some controversial issues, prior approval should be obtained from the government.” My sources tell me that expedition leaders have been asked to sign a contract but that social media posts are excluded from any scrutiny.

One final comment on these rules – climbers are required to use oxygen? This is the first I have seen this specific rule of a minimum of 5 bottles each. I guess someone could buy the bottles and not use them but this seems at odds with the spirit of mountaineering. If Nepal goes too far with some of these rules, they risk cutting off the hand that feeds them.

R20's post makes it sounds like the governments that control the mountains are more concerned with news about unsafe conditions getting out, than actually making things safer.

Hardly surprising, the Sacred Mountain Chomolungma, the Goddess Mother of Mountains, has become a vehicle for separating rich idiots from their disposable income.

Some hoes go to Everest with the express intention of climbing without oxygen because they've already climbed with oxygen, so this will cut down on the numbers making the ascent.

How are they going to check that they use oxygen to go from Camp 3 to the summit? The sherpas can take it up but who will be there checking they're using it as they start off for the top at 10pm? Nobody.

R18, that's my favorite reply ever.

Wings Over Everest

BiPlanes in 1933

r15 Maybe, maybe she did, but let's not forget Beck Weathers, he lied or rather, omitted, having just recently had eye surgery and that held them up too when his eyes basically exploded up there. The whole cast of characters was a perfect storm I think.

The main reason the 1996 disaster happened was because the Adventure Consultant's leader Rob allowing one client to summit really late in the day, at around 4pm (not Beck, another guy called Lee). Rob also sent his best guide down the mountain rather than asking him to accompany the clients down and when a huge storm hit Everest, Rob and the client were caught out without oxygen and he ended up spending two nights at 8000 feet. Scott Fisher should never have climbed that day as he was already ill. It was a perfect storm of spazzing and weather.

Look, I love rehashing 1996 as much as the next guy, but why does EVERY Everest thread titled Mount Everest 201- end up being a Who'sFault Was The 1996 Disaster?

Diana Ross' husband, Arne Naess, conquered Everest only to fall to his death at a much smaller mountain somewhere in Africa. The irony: "Ain't No Mountain High Enough"

Ohhh R29 that is truly ironic.

R28 the reason that happens is that most people limit their mountaineering reading to Into Thin Air. Author Jon Krakauer wishes he never went on that particular climb although the book made his career. He would have written it differently now. You can tell the people on DL Everest threads who have only read this one book because they all have the same talking points: Sandy Hill was carried up, etc. etc. There are so many other interesting stories from many seasons on Everest! And some excellent writing by climbers.

R30 exactly. What about the guy on I Shouldn't Be Alive, Lincoln Hall? That story is crazy. And the guy who died last year, who was trying to summit Everest & the other mountain in the same bid (do I have that right?)

Let's not forget there's another Krakauer book to obsess over, Into the Wild....

these douchebags are such a pain in the ass for everyone involved. The exploit the guides, then, if they get stuck in the mountain, expect heaven and earth to be raised to save them

let em freeze to death - they should die doing what they love and not jeopardize other peoples lives

I read somewhere that Green Boots has been removed from his cave beneath the first step or that somebody finally covered his body with stones.

I think Alan Arnette's blog mentioned it last year.

And some people are still looking for Sandy Irvine's camera, hoping to finally solve the mystery of the 1924 summit attempt.

Yes, R33, I think it was China that led an expedition about two or three years ago to clean up the mountain of all the visible bodies. I posted a link in the other thread.

Are there chic contemporary hotels near Everest? I don't want to climb it - just want to say I was at basecamp or whatever.

Um, NO...go read about the lack of plumbing.....

I actually spent the night at the Base Camp on the Chinese side last July. My partner and I were travelling to China and Tibet, so, while in Tibet, arranged to go there. The facilities are minimal - I think there's a hotel nearby but of very small capacity and rather basic. Instead, we stayed at the camp in a tent village. There were dozens of large tents, each accommodating around 10 people, in two partitioned sections. You get served food, but nothing appetizing, pancakes, some kind of broth, etc. By that point, we were in Tibet for several days and the altitude was a very minor issue, mostly running out of breath when climbing long flights of stairs and such. We were also on altitude sickness medication. However, shit really hit the fan at the base camp. During the night, I thought that if I fell asleep I was going to die. I really struggled to breathe, experienced strong heart palpitations, needed to empty my bladder all the time, and so on. However, in spite of that, it was totally worth it. The unobstructed view of the Everest in direct sunlight cannot really be described. The funny thing is, it started snowing that morning (mid-July!) but, all of a sudden, the skies opened, the sun started shining and it was spectacular. Not many people attempt to climb it from the Chinese side, since even getting into Tibet is rather complicated with all the red tape, getting climbing permits is impossibly difficult, it is the colder, steeper side, etc. Also, that experience of just spending a night there gave me so much appreciation for anyone who attempts that climb. We were at 5,000m above the sea level, and those people need to climb another 3,000+ meters to get there. Struggling to breathe even without climbing, avoiding crevasses, falling ice, avalanches, etc, I can't even start to imagine what it must be like...

I thought the climbing season ended in May because the weather atop Everest was terrible starting the end of May, r37?

Nobody was climbing. We were only visiting the camp. Everybody there was a tourist, except for some amateur mountain climbers but they wouldn't be allowed to climb anyway. Those go there for the bragging right of having been "to the Everest" without actually climbing it.

No fancy hotels.

[quote] And some people are still looking for Sandy Irvine's camera, hoping to finally solve the mystery of the 1924 summit attempt.

YES!

Thanks, R33, for mentioning this. You beat me to it.

Now, THAT, would be wonderful.

Wasn't it a Chinese climber who found Irvine the first time but he's never been found again?

There are no fancy hotels, everyone stays in flea ridden tea houses.

[quote]Wasn't it a Chinese climber who found Irvine the first time but he's never been found again?

[italic]Then information came forward that a Chinese climber had observed a body of an “English Dead” at 8,200 m in 1975, close to the Chinese highest camp. The Chinese climber described his find to a Japanese climber, when he was back on the mountain in 1979. The next day the Chinese climber died in an avalanche, so the story could not be confirmed. If the information was correct, it had to be either Mallory or Irvine, as no other British climbers were missing on this part of Everest at the time.[/italic]

Good news, everyone! Mrs. South Africa is safe and sound after being airlifted from Base Camp.

My brother died of CF so I appreciate that she wants to bring attention to it, maybe next time she should train a little though, huh? 16 days, did she even leave base camp?

If you aren't afraid of Facebook's privacy policy and want to follow some random stranger's every step as he climbs Mt. Everest, here ya go!

Reminds me of the Canadian woman who died a few years ago, r45. Her only training was a stairmaster and climbing hills.

Shriya Sha r47, yes, she was pretty inept too, poor dummy.

Everest threads are what first drew me to DL, so I'm thankful for whomever started this thread for 2018.

Posting to let folks know that Everest: Beyond the Limit S 1-3 are now available on Amazon Prime. S1 features the David Sharp controversy.

thanks r49, I am watching!

r48 that was on the company as much as her for allowing her anywhere near the mountain. The local, cut-rate companies are the ones causing a lot of the problems. It's not PC to say that; as a result, issues aren't corrected.

Everest Dish! Exhibit "A" of DL's irreplaceability!

People can't stop blabbing about the 1996 disaster because real life gave history a cast of characters no soap opera writer could top. And because though the casualties were clearly due to human error and human frailty, the question of which weighed heaviest is an endless "Rashomon" loop-de-loop of competing accounts. . . .

Agree r52. I also came to DL for Everest talk 6 years ago, I look forward to this thread every year and I look forward to the rehash of 96 too. Every year I feel differently about it. This year I feel like Beck Weathers was as much to blame as Sandy, she gets way too much shit and he gets way too many accolades.

Well, if you want YET another take on the 1996 diaster, then read "A Day To Die For" by Graham Ratcliffe.

Oh thanks r54, I had never even heard of that! I'd love to read about other Everest disasters, there have been years just as deadly as 96 but no one has written books about them that I know of.

Oh I can help you out there too. In 2006 Lincoln Hall attempted Everest for the second time from the North side. Amazing story. He doesn't pull any punches.

And if you can travel away from Everest to a lesser known mountain called Nanda Devi in India, you would encounter a story so tragic it has been made into an opera. Here are 3 books which will provide you the full scope of what has been described as a modern Greek tragedy:

"Ascent" by Laurence Leamer

"Nanda Devi" by John Roskelley

"Fatal Mountaineer" by Robert Roper

Thanks for the recommendations R56 and I too am glad to see this always interesting thread back. Last year someone on it recommended The Lost Explorer: Finding Mallory on Everest which was a great read, combining chapters by Conrad Anker, who wrote about the search, and David Robers, who wrote the sections on Mallory and 1924.

David Roberts is a great writer; I believe he co-authors Ed Viesters books.

The Lincoln Hall book is called "Dead Lucky"

Lincoln Hall was rescued just 5 days after David Sharp died on the North Col route. Both spend a night on the mountain, one survived the other one didn't.

Hall's story is almost as amazing as Beck Weather's.

Beck with his little man disease and too much money to spare.

Putting aside the risk--since every year so many people "summit" with so much help, I'm not sure why it remains such an achievement for rich people who may or may not be ready for it. Instagram bragging? One line in your obituary?

Why not take that money and try to do something good for the world? The cost of an Everest ascent would probably pay for lots of worthy projects in your hometowns.

It seems many use a summit to jump start their careers as motivational speakers.

I've been watching a lot of Everest stuff on Youtube this past week.

I think the best is PBS's "Storm Over Everest" done by David Breashears. Done in 2008, some 12 years after the events, it is extremely well done. Interviews with people I've never seen before as the early coverage focused on only a few people. Several Sherpas comment as well as Makalu Gau who tells his story of the night on the mountain where he was on the same ledge as the dying Scott Fisher.

Unfortunately, I think the link has been removed from Youtube, but there is a 2 part interview with Breashears about the film.

Here is a link to the first part of the interview:

R35 - I went on an Everest Basecamp Treck last year - I was on Nepal side, following the route described by Krakauer. In Nepal the infrastructure has improved a lot, especially comparing to 'Into the thin air' description of housing conditions, but it is still basic. There are some 'fancier' hotels though on the trek, but they will still be closer to youth hostel than a hotel.

As somebody said you do not really want to spend a lot of time on this altitude. Gorak Shep is traditionally where you spend the night before/after getting to the EBC, the altitude is ~5100 m. I was in a group of 8 a nobody actually slept that night. Most of us just managed to nap from time to time. Even though we were taking Altitude Sickness medicine nobody really felt good - nausea was the most common thing, general fatigue, headache etc. In a nutshell you basically want to get there, take a photo and go back to lower altitudes.

The trek however is awesome and I certainly want to do Annapurna circuit now. The views are amazing and the mountains are just majestic. Waking up to the view of the sunrise on Nupste, Everest and Lhoste was one of the most beautiful things I've ever experienced.

Great thread. And I have a question for the knowledgeable. What is the view in the mountaineering world of Rob Hall. I am a New Zealander as well and he is kinda canonized here as some amazing journeyman but to me, he seemed to die cause he had to take a paying customer up and did it for the money.......So, how do mountaineers see his legacy, and does he even have one?

'This year I feel like Beck Weathers was as much to blame as Sandy, she gets way too much shit and he gets way too many accolades. '

Why was he to blame? He didn't inconvenience anybody else and nearly died on the mountain from the others neglecting him. Rob Hall was to blame for not turning Lee the Mailman around and summiting far too late. He then stayed on the mountain with Lee instead of heading down and helping his other clients.

Because r66 he went to Everest after having that eye surgery and his eye problems kind of slowed some of them up. Had anyone been killed when he was then choppered down that would have been a nightmare too.

I think the main blame is on Rob Hall and Scott Fisher. As it was revealed later, they knew a storm was coming, they didn't coordinate their head Sherpas to fix ropes before summit day and they still encouraged clients to head for the summit even though they knew they were hours behind schedule.

4 people died because Hall failed to make proper decisions and ignored safety guidelines.

R68 it is more complicated than that although those were factors. Crucially, detailed weather information was withheld from the teams and in the hands of others who had paid top dollar for the info.

Reading further than Into Thin Air will give a better-rounded picture about people's motives and character, as well as the logistics of saving lives at high altitudes.

R65 Rob Hall made some critical mistakes on the day in question on Everest. Nevertheless his last act was extremely noble and was more in keeping with older mountaineering ethics. Nowadays you wouldn't see people do what he did, staying with someone because you felt responsible for them being there in the first place and to keep them company while they are dying. The Everest culture has changed since the 1996 event and maybe the reporting of that event helped to crystallize that change. Another event which has changed Everest culture recently was the 2014 icefall avalanche. Watch the documentary "Sherpa" for more info.

Who bought the weather report and why didn't they share it?

[quote]Are there chic contemporary hotels near Everest?

No, but there is a salon.

R70, read "A Day To Die For" by Graham Ratcliffe

Mount Everest : a metaphor for life, climbing an "insurmountable" mountain littered with human waste, garbage and corpses

Rob Hall wasn't heroic, he just stayed with the guy he himself encouraged to summit even though it was way too late for that. When he ran out of oxygen he asked one of his guides to head back up the mountain for help, he died too in the storm. Yasuko Namba maybe could have been saved had there been another guide from Hall's team to help the clients.

At least all of Scott Fischer's client's made it back to their tents. Boukreev rescued Fox, Madden and Pittman but for Namba and Weather's it was too late. That Weather's eventually made it back to the tents was a miracle.

Yearly reminder that Beck Weathers is now flying planes with no arms.

Yeah Beck clearly has/had a death wish and his going there AMA with his eyes so fucked up and then his idiot wife getting a chopper up there, that could have ended badly for some people. I saw the recent Everest movie in a theater and everyone cheered when Robin Wright Penn as Peach Weathers was calling helicopter companies to make one go get my husband, damn it! Yeah how plucky of this Dallas frau to demand that shit, meanwhile your hubby has a fucking death wish and it's probably so he can get away from you.

Rob Hall also allowed Boukreev to ascend without oxygen, which gave him less stamina and meant he didn't have the energy to descend slowly and help ailing climbers. Instead, he shot down to Camp 4, slept and started preparing tea. By the time he was ready to go back up the mountain, the blizzard was too fierce for him to help, although he did help guide people back from 'the huddle.'

Boukreev was a guide for Scott Fisher, he had nothing to do with Rob Hall.

[quote] Rob Hall also allowed Boukreev to ascend without oxygen

No.

Boukreev did not work for Rob Hall. Boukreev was the main guide for Scott Fisher.

Okay so Boukreev of his own accord spazzed down the mountain instead of staying to help Fisher and his clients. With oxygen he would have been able to help Scott down but instead he was in Camp 4 sleeping.

Thanks to Boukreev, guides are no longer allowed to summit without oxygen.

It was never clear to me exactly what Boukreev thought his duties as head guide were. What did he think he was being paid for? He was adamant as to what he would not do, but what did he see as what he should do?

No one debates his bravery in rescuing people from the huddle. And I think he was one of the people who stepped up to set the fixed ropes, a job that was to be done by the two Sherpas from the Hall/Fisher teams. (This plan fell through because the Sherpa on Scott's team was exhausted after dragging Sandy Pittman up the mountain after carrying up all her shit.)

But on the day of the climb, after fixing the ropes, I think he summited and then went down quickly.

And why did he not, as the most experienced, stop Scott Fisher from continuing when it was pretty clear Fisher was not well and was the last one to the top?

Wouldn't it have made more sense as a guide to remain among the clients to simply be there as needed?

Here is a brief and interesting clip of Reinhold Messner talking about the controversy. He knew Boukreev and Krakauer.

It just seems like a colossal waste of resources/time.

[quote]This plan fell through because the Sherpa on Scott's team was exhausted after dragging Sandy Pittman up the mountain after carrying up all her shit.

This is true, but there was one other Sherpa who was supposed to be helping. I can't remember his name. He dug his heels in and flat out refused. Apparently he had been unfairly treated, and decided the last step to reaching the summit was the right time to throw a fit about it.

R84, I believe that fixing the ropes is not a one man job, so for the Sherpa to refuse to do it alone is not really a surprise.

I thought their was a pissing contest between the two sherpas. Wasn't one each from the now combined teams?

Ugh, their = there in r86. Anyway...an hour by hour account from a PBS frontline on what happened that day.

I'm going to agree with the people who say "Enough rehashing the 1990s disaster!". It's getting tedious, and I'm beginning to feel bad about it. I mean if I were involved in some disaster, and didn't have all my brain cells on board because of some external factor, I'd hate to have people spend 20 years picking my actions apart. What's done is done.

Is there any new dirt from base camp, or even pictures of hot guys working out or sunning themselves at base camp? Apparently it can get actually hot there during the day, while the sun is at its maximum.

Dear God in heaven, don't tell me that base camp has become a new Destination Wedding site!

Um, thread police @r88, do you not know how to use google so you can contribute something here other than your complaints and demands?

It IS tedious. Especially since you know so much about the event you spelled Scott Fischer's name wrong.

Scott Fischer lumbered up Everest despite having liver issues. He sat down in the snow and refused to move. He needed someone strong like Boukreev to help him down, but Boukreev was stuck in Campt 4 making tea.

Boukreev was one of the first on the summit and he did help clients to summit too. It is up to speculation whether he had conversations with Beidleman as to decide when to head back down. Everybody knew 2pm was the last turn around time. Yet several people, including Beidleman who was one of Scott Fischer's guides, and therefore should have known better, decided to stay on the summit long after that. By his own admission Beidleman stayed with several clients, including Charlotte Fox and Sandy Hill for more than one and a half hours on the summit, against better judgement they were wasting energy, oxygen and time.

[quote]Yearly reminder that Beck Weathers is now flying planes with no arms.

Oh Dear! I do hope those armless planes at least have wings

R88 No, it is fascinating and I love when people bring info to DL

Thank you to the poster(s) commenting about their personal experience at base camp.

I have no desire to summit but I would dearly love to see Everest up close from base camp. In the 2015/16 thread, someone posted a link to a picture of Everest that you could zoom in on and I was stunned at the beauty of the glacier and the ice falls.

To see that up close would be amazing. Who wants to be rushed up to summit when just the area around base camp is spectacular!

Then you would appreciate the photography in the documentary "Sherpa," R96

R96 - in this case you have to go to Tibet, not Nepal. You cannot see much of Everest from the BC on Nepalese side (at least in a place where treks end), there is a beautiful view from a hill close to Gorak Shep huts, but you have to climb at 5600 m.n.p.m.

I am considering climbing Island Peak - it is a peak of ~6200 height located just in front of the chain that includes Everest. The views from there must be majestic.

I just saw that documentary R97, I can understand that the Sherpas were angry and I fully agree with them refusing to climb after so many of them died in the icefall. The Nepalese government makes a fortune from this industry and doesn't invest it into the economy and into creating jobs other than Everest.

Yay! Here we go!!!

Here for the season, fellas; I am on my 4th year, and I usually hate sport, but these are some of the best threads.

Right, Off to watch 'Sherpa'

I wonder how much money a Russell Brice makes on each climbing season. He charges 100 thousand dollars from his clients.

I know booking with him is the ultimate, bc of the luxury he provides for his clients, but I always wanted to know how much profit he makes.

Isn't Brice known for being an asshole? I know it's understood that if serious weather or some kind of calamity happens there'll be no guarantees you'll summit. However, Brice offers no refunds or future discounts if it happens. He's also been known to pull out of summiting over issues that are not considered major hindrances by other professional outfits.

An outfit called Alpenglow charges $117,000 per client. And they have a special bag thier clients sleep in at home so they avoid the long trek up to base camp---they can just chopper in from Katmandu. Also they get unlimited oxygen!

Your sentence R102 "And they have a special bag thier clients sleep in at home so they avoid the long trek up to base camp---they can just chopper in from Katmandu." doesn't make sense. Care to elaborate what this "special bag" does?

What do you mean by special bag, r105. I'm assuming it has something to do with acclimatising to the higher altitude and lack of oxygen.

What do you mean by special bag,

it seems to be one that protects special snowflakes from melting down.

You assume correctly R107. I said bag and that wasn't very clear, sorry. Alpenglow rents out what they call hypoxic tents for their clients to sleep in which approximates altitude. It is remotely monitored and I think the oxygen levels are tapered down to increase a person's red blood cells. So apparently it boosts someone's readiness to tackle the climb, probably in one big push. This also reduces the times a person has to travel through the icefall. They still go through the process of acclimatising but they do it at home, and do not have to spend days of trekking to Base Camp. Many climbers would argue that the trek is A significant part of the experience so anyone who skips it is losing out.

Don't you have to cross the ice falls just to get to base camp over a rickety ladder?? To me that is scarier than getting to the summit.

Yeah they are trying to make it more and more like a Disney ride for millionaires. If helicopters could go to the top, that would be the end of it.

I think they're going to Coachella this thing: make it a huge standalone event, adding luxury hotels and shit.

Our rich people used to be more daring and hearty...

R111 more like that doomed Fyre event!!!!! Please.

The main problem with Everest is that besides the high altitude, the climb itself is comparatively easy. All the hard work of building base camps, marshalling supplies and putting in guide ropes are done by Nepalese guides. However, all this can be dangerously deceptive. If something goes wrong at the highest altitudes on either the ascent/descent you cannot be reached by helicopter. Even especially adapted helicopters can only go so high due to the lack of oxygen. Moreover, if you collapse while making your attempt and can't walk under your own power, there's virtually nothing that can be done for you. For example: the reason why Beck Weathers survived was due to him regaining consciousness and managing to stumble back into camp.

And even now, when there's a period of severe weather, professional climbers, guides and clients still get caught out and die.

Isn't there a theory that the SECOND highest mountains in all continents is actually the more difficult climb? Like K2?

I think K2 is regarded as one of the most challenging high altitude climbs in the world, r115. There's no way to stage permanent camps up to the summit like you can with Everest. I think it has something to do with large parts of mountain being virtually vertical and in constant danger of avalanches.

I don't know if it's changed, but K2 was regarded as far more dangerous and tougher than Everest, and only the best and most highly experienced mountaineers were ever allowed to attempt it.

Annapurna is the most difficult to climb. Very few have actually summited.

Yes you're right, R117. I do know that K2 is incredible dangerous and some members of a Norwegian team ended up being killed up there while trying to climb it only a few years ago.

Yes it is much more technical and I think it would be a suicide to try to attempt it without some serious experience so no commercial expedition there. Mount Everest for the most part is not that technical, and if I am not mistaken, the biggest obstacle when climbing South Col route (easier, where the commercial expeditions go) the Hilary's Step (which was a 10 meters vertical rock just before the summit - the one at which Krakauer experienced traffic jam and had to wait for a long time before descending) is now gone after the earthquake.

K2 is I think the only of 8k mountains not summited during winter. The last attempt this year did not by Polish expedition did not go above 7200 m if I remember correctly. Annapurna actually the worst proportion ad ~35% summit attempts ends in death while on K2 it is 25%. On Annapurna avalanches seem to be what makes it so deadly.

Here is one of the ascent routes, you do not have to be there to understand it is much more hostile than Everest - it is practically vertical for most of the way.

Here's the South Col route on Everest for a comparison.

R92

You saying it like he was wasting time for sweet tea and bisquits, while in reality, he had much needed rest and was able to go back and save three people. He knew his body's needs and demands, and knew what to do about it. I wish all people in this story were as smart.

R122: No one is debating that Boukreev needed to rest himself. The criticism comes from how he acted while he was guiding for Fisher. It's a guides responsibility to be there and manage the clients; Anatoli refused to use oxygen during the ascent and he therefore had to descend as quickly as possible in order to rest and recover. When he did that he left Fisher behind to deal with the other climbers who were already in trouble. On top of all this, Fisher's health was worsening and the weather began to close in. And no one is arguing that Boukreev didn't act heroically later, many people witnessed him risking his life to save some of the others.

However, if he'd used the oxygen as he should have done, he wouldn't have needed to descend immediately.

Basically Boukreev was acting like a climber instead of a guide.

As I understand it, there is an unwritten rule that once you reach the last leg of the climb it's every man for himself. Guide, sherpa or climber. There are NO expectations that ANY ONE should risk their life for any one else.

R123

I hate the idea that man can be blamed for not saving everybody, while he already saved three people. That's just shitty.

And yet you keep misspelling Scott Fischer's name, so how much do you know?

Krakauer's job was to write an article about the commercialization of Everest. That is what he did.

In the book, an expansion of the original article, he talks about the differences in behavior between a commercial expedition and a professional expedition (I use that name to refer to expeditions not made up of paying clients).

As part of his story, he talked about the deaths that happened that year (how could he not?) and he viewed those tragic events through the lens of behavior differences between the 2 different kinds of expeditions. That was part of the reason he was on the mountain. That was his job.

I don't think anyone doubts that that year there was a competition. Prior to this year I believe only Rob Hall had had such a commercial ventures. This year Scott Fischer decided to do the same. Both men knew that the success of their business's future would depend on how many people they got to the Summit. Publicity: (I got more people to the Summit than the other guy.)

This very competition changed the way Everest had normally been climbed. And the people who worked for Hall and/or Fischer knew that they were to focus on getting clients to the top. That was the way to success. Sandy Hill Pittman was there to give Fischer publicity. And Hall expected the same from Krakauer's article. That is why they were dragging Sandy up the mountain.

It was clear from the book, that there are points in the expeditions where Krakauer notes that behavior is different this time. For one thing, in a professional expedition you climbed with people you knew and you knew the talents and strengths or weaknesses of the people climbing with you. Not so this time. For another, Krakauer notes that this time even he began to accept that "the guides" were in charge and when he (Krakauer) saw things that bothered him (that he would have mentioned to fellow climbers on a professional expedition) he let them go. He himself began acting just as a client. Not as a fellow climber who was part of a team.

And in the final toll of a commercial expedition, what mattered was how many of your clients you got to the top.

So, when 2 (or 3) of Hall's clients turned back because they prudently considered their state, the time, etc., Hall knew that might hurt him in comparison to another team climbing.

On a professional climb, Fischer's fellow climbers would have seen and known he was in trouble . As was Andy Harris. And the fellow climbers would have acted to do what they could to insist those climbers go down. And Fischer and Harris would have listened because of the trust with fellow climbers. The factor of "How will it look to future possible clients" would not have been there.

But Fischer was the boss. So, people, treated him as the boss. That is why Neil Beidleman stayed on the Summit so long. Waiting for the boss. Unsure whether he had the authority to tell people to go down.

And Boukreev, as the strongest and a tough climber, was probably the only one on the mountain who could have made an impact to get Fischer to turn around and to go down.

None of this is to denigrate Boukreev's behavior at rescuing people from the huddle. He saved lives.

[quote]It's a guides responsibility to be there and manage the clients

It is not a guide's job to ignore safe turn around times, like Beidleman clearly did. Staying on the summit for so long, long after turn around time was absolutely crazy. He knew they couldn't get to the south col in time before dark and he knew people would ran out of oxygen. The reason he made it down, survived the huddle and still was able to get up and find the tents was in part because Boukreev gave him his emergency oxygen bottle before descending. The reason Charlotte Fox, Tim Madsen and Sandy Pittman are alive is Anatoli Boukreev.

Most people on that day were hell bent on getting to the summit, no matter what. Yes Boukreev couldn't stay on the summit for long without oxygen and he had to decent, however he did help other clients to summit, but it is absolutely foolhardy to stay on the summit that long and ignore safe turn around times like Beidleman did.

Fischer arrived at the summit after 4pm. Rob Hall waited and still encouraged his client Doug Hanson to summit after 3pm. Most people in charge were absolutely reckless that day.

I love these Everest threads. I started reading them a couple of years ago and ended up down an internet rabbit hole of extreme mountaineering. I would never in a million years attempt to climb a mountain but I'm fascinated by those that do.

Yeah, there's a lot of blame to go around, r128. My understanding about Doug Hanson is that he'd previously tried to summit with Hall and had been forced to turn back. Apparently, Rob Hall felt bad about it and offered him some kind of discount when he wanted to make a second attempt. I think he felt an obligation to the guy and that might have inclined him to risk heading for the summit later than he should have done.

It's all the "whys" and "What ifs" that make that series of events so fascinating.

It is not and never has been about villains or heroes.

It's more about choices, mistakes, luck, and unpredictability.

Doug Hansen indeed was on Rob Hall's expedition the previous year. He collapsed on the south summit and had to be helped down.

I think, like R127 pointed out upthread, the pressure to get as many clients to the top as possible because there were people who would write about the expedition and would bring both Fischer and Hall enormous publicity and consequently lots of clients, added to the disaster and clouded everybody's judgment.

So only professional climbers tackle K2 and Annapurna?

Oh hey, I forgot about that climber doing the summits on every continent. Last I read, he was about to do the final one, Everest.

There's a few summits that only professionals take on, r133. Nanga Parbat and Kangchenjunga. There's one or two in South America.

The day after the disaster two brave Sherpas climed up the mountain to save Rob Hall, but the storm was still blowing so hard they couldn't reach him as he was still so high on the mountain. He had bivouaced just below the Hillary Step. He didn't survive another night on the mountain. Nobody knows what happened to Doug Hanson and Andy Harris, their bodies were never found. David Breashears found Hall's body, partly covered in snow a few days later, gloves missing and surrounded by oxygen bottles, while filming their IMAX movie.

Sherpas of Scott Fishers team also got up the mountain to save Fisher and Makalu Gau who had collapsed just a few feet away from Fischer on the balcony at 8,400m. Fischer was beyond help but Makalu Gau was still able to walk on his own and down the mountain. Boukreev made another attempt that day to save Fischer, but he was dead by then.

Fischer's sirdar Lopsang died just 4 months later on the Lhotse face in an avalanche.

Anatoli Boukeev made a successful Lhotse summit after the disaster in 96, climbed Cho Oyu, Shishapangma and in 97 again Mount Everest as a guide, again Lhotse, Broad Peak and Gasherbrum II. He died during a winter expedition on Annapurna in an avalanche in December 1997.

This is Annapurna, and as you can see, basically the entire mountain is composed of avalanche chutes.

The only professional expedition climber I ever met in my life is still up there, buried in an avalanche. Why people keep going there I don't know, and if there's really a 35% death rate then it's fucking unethical to hire local people to go into the danger zones. No amount of money is worth that kind of risk, particularly 3rd world wages.

Annapurna has a face welcoming the climbers.

Here's Annapurna seen from a different angle, which is also entirely composed of avalanche chutes.

It's a killer-bitch of a mountain.

I remember some sick freak on one of the other Everest threads who said he wanted to go to the summit so he could have sex with the dead stiffs.

Here's K2, which is entirely composed of vertical surfaces. Much of it's so steep that the snow won't stick to it!

And look at that wind, it'll pick you up and land you in Bhutan.

And here's Nanga Parbat, having a big avalanche!

If a climber is caught in an avalanche on one of these peaks, there's absolutely nothing they can do but die. They'll be carried several thousand feet down and buried in snow, ice, and rocks, and even if their compatriots see where they land they won't be able to reach the spot, because they don't have the strength to spare for Death Zone side trips... and it's a fucking avalanche zone.

And now that I've posted all these pictures, I want to go trekking between the mountains! They're so staggeringly beautiful, not that I'd set foot into the high peaks avalanche zones, or the Death Zone where there isn't enough oxygen to sustain the human body.

I'll go right after I lose 50 pounds, and get 30 years younger...

Machhapuchhare (6,997m), the Fishtail mountain.

Part of the Annapurna massif and sacred, meaning nobody is allowed to climb it. As far as beautiful mountains go, this is my favorite.

jfc, these photos are breathtaking.

Has anybody attempted to climb that mountain in the past, r143.

I think there are some rumors about a guy from New Zealand who got to the top of Machhapuchhare on a solo climb, but I don't think it's been confirmed. In the 50s a British climber went up but respectfully stayed below the summit.

Mount Kailash in China and Nanda Devi in India are also sacred mountains.

R143 Thank you, great photos. K2 is beautiful, just perfect. Always loved the play K2, this thread makes me want to put it on!

R143 And Sacred Mountains? And people respect them?

Have you seen what prisons look like in these places, r148.

I think China only annexed Tibet so it could run its border through the summit of Mount Everest.

thanks, r97 and r98. I'm not much of a climber. Mostly a flatlander and I do hate the cold but these mountains are just spectacular. And the photos posted at around r120 are just unreal. Absolutely incredible.

I've been watching "beyond the limit" that someone recommended in this thread and it is really interesting. You can certainly tell the serious climbers from the tourists.

The Sherpas are incredible. They do all of the work and march up and down Everest like it's nothing. I'm just amazed at their stamina.

Sorry, the awesome photo links are in the 140's

Thank you whoever posted those. They are gorgeous.

R142 check out the Annapurna circuit treks! I haven't been but it's one of the things on my bucket list. I live vicariously through this video for now.

Also, for K2 enthusiasts - what it's like to be stuck in a queue at the Bottleneck. Look at the giant serac, way bigger than I thought. And they are basically stuck up a nearly vertical face (you can see that when he turns around, how exposed they are). It's a devilishly beautiful mountain, that one.

Great video diary from some guys attempting the Everest base camp track. They really captured culture and landscapes of Nepal.

I don't know how to post a specific time-flagged YouTube video on mobile, but please check out this video at the 23:30 mark onwards, for the next minute. It's a memorable sight, promise.

K2 was considered unclimbable for decades, because all of its faces are extremely steep - most Himalayan peaks have some comparatively easy route to the top but K2 does not. No, it rises out of its surroundings like a pyramid that's way steeper and more dangerous than the ones in Egypt.

Someone tell me about the Trango Tower rock formation near K2, visible in this photo. Has it been climbed?

[quote]Annapurna has a face welcoming the climbers.

Annapurna really has a face carved into the mountain side. Is it like this every year or did the snow form those eyebrows, nose and mouth?

Russell Brice is in his early 70s now, and took a few years off after all the recent deaths. He's back this year, and there are recent entries about him on the blog OP linked.

He gets a lot of shit, but like Ed Viesturs, he won't take what he sees as a reckless risk. He's very blunt and tells all clients that upfront. If you expect a Hall/Fischer trifecta of greed, hubris and bad judgement to save your $100, 000 summit chance, then you don't go with Brice.

When I was doing media I interviewed Kevin MacDonald, the director of 'Touching the Void', and Araceli Segarra, from the 'Everest' Imax film. I found her amazing, totally hot as fuck but a really vibrant engaged woman. I asked if she thought their expedition contributed to the death storm that year was, if the technical and physical demands of their project along with Pittman et al on the Mountain made the year a perfect storm of disasters. She kinda agreed. MacDonald was a dick and we got into a huge argument about '3 Days In September'

r160 That's interesting she said that, because David Brashears, who was involved in the Imax film, is a colossal asshole but he won't tolerate bullshit. The way he handles it sometimes causes more problems, but project and safety-wise I don't see how they made the situation worse. To their credit, they put everything aside to help at the time.

Pittman was accommodated by Fischer for publicity. Krakauer was with Hall for the same reason. He was looking to make his career on the story, as were the two leaders. Boukreev wasn't perfect, but he wasn't the problem. Everything he did, especially going without 02, was OKd by Fischer. There was no way Krakauer, or anyone in the climbing community, would take a critical look at the two golden boys, so the Russian took the fall. Krakauer ought to be ashamed of himself. Someone in one of the other threads said that this case is discussed in business/leadership classes and it's viewed totally differently outside the climbing world.

Belmond or Banyan is going to build a luxury hotel at the base.

Krakauer did make some subtle criticism towards Hall and Fischer in his book. I know everybody blasted him for putting the blame on Boukreev, but he did view the whole disaster from different angles and wasn't really totally biased in his book.

I read the book a few months ago after I got hooked following some of the threads here on DL. I cannot say I liked the book, I don't think it was written very well stylistically.

Just my two cents.

R142 - how old are you? I have seen a lot of older people on the Everest BC trek - as long as you have no heart problems it should be OK. The trek is tiring but it is a different type of fatigue that from walking at lower altitudes and not the one you could prepare yourself.

Anyways Annapurna from what I've heard is really picturesque. The best views on Everest BC were between 3000-4000 m.n.p.m, and a lot of Annapurna trek route ticks that box. It also goes around the mountain so you do not go back the same way as in EBC. There is an option either to join the group or hire a guide on your own. I think Annapurna with a company that took care of my EBC trek starts from ~$1000 (and you would need no more than $200 cash with you on top of that) if you choose to join and 8 person group.

And on the topic of favourite mountains - here is Ama Dablam en route to EBC.

I have such a love/hate relationship with this thread every year. I love it, but then at some point I decide that it's time to watch ladder videos on Youtube, and then I hate it.

R157 yes, the Trango towers have been climbed. First ascent in 1977.

I love how the Matterhorn is like a pyramid that curves at the top.

oh dear god crossing the ladder bridge wearing crampons. If you don't lift your leg up and set it down straight each step, you will trip.

For some reason, this picture of one of the dead bodies on Everest has always bothered me the most.

K2 is a much dodgier mountain than Everest in terms of weather and when to climb. People camp at Base Camp for months waiting for the perfect day which isn't too cold and windy but also isn't too warm. It's further south than Everest and the temps at the summit can be much warmer, causing ice to melt and seracs to break off, which is what happened when the Norwegians were ascending and eight people were killed.

how many dead climbers have been filmed and appear on the internet? cannot imagine the horror of family and friends to see these pics

I have to wonder if they could even identify them from photos, r171. Usually you can't see anything because their faces and hand are covered with clothing and goggles.

Green Boots' brother was able to identify the corpse from photos on the Internet. There was an article about it a year or two ago. I linked to it in a thread a year or two ago. I will link it here if I can find it again.

Some images of the bodies are quite clear on Google. Many of those are unrecognisable due to decomposition, though.

Last climbing season i stumbled upon a blog where someone had documented their climb with some excellent photos that really showed the difficulty of some of the terrain, in areas such as the second step, third step, the final summit pyramid, the approaching ridge etc. Their climb was before many of the bodies were removed from the mountain or covered in the last couple of years. The bodies are very evident in the Death Zone, and often just off the route (I mean a couple of steps away). Most of them have faces covered, but not all do. I don't remember the blog addresses but in a fit of morbidity I'd saved some of the photos somewhere.

More recent photos of the area show it's been cleared.

Here is the article from the BBC's interview with the family of Tsewang Paljor (Green Boots). It's two parts, but I'm only linking to part 1. The link to part 2, which is about the bodies, is in part 1.

Well Sagarmatha is officially played out now!

r176 honestly that's the kind of attention whoring one upmanship I can deal with. It's Base Camp, they're paying for it and not putting anyone else in danger. It's all these amputees, PTSD sufferers, blind and deaf people who try extreme adventure who drive me crazy.

The whole "First double amputee above the knee, deaf in one ear, autism spectrum disordered, not obviously gendered person to summit this mountain on a Sherpa's back" phenomenon drives me fucking nuts.

R177 Haven't they banned amputees this year?

[quote]People camp at Base Camp for months waiting for the perfect day

This does not seem reasonable in any context.

I love reading about Everest fails.

We all do r180, pull up a chair, this should be a good year.

Yeah, it’s the ultimate test of ego and the time and expense people go to in order to say they have done shows them to be at the height of strutting vulgarity. Because most are not actual climbers or lovers of the outdoors. I’m surprised Tom Cruise hasn’t attempted it yet.

Tom Cruise is going to do it. He's not taking any professional guides or Sherpas though. Miscavidge has selected a special team of Sea org members who are not only going to build a base camp, but also a Scientology centre. From there, Tom is going to set off guided by e-meter readings from the theton of the saintly Long dead L Ron.

r182 Right, if someone is trying to show off climbing skills, they will mention Annapurna or K2. If someone is trying to look like a pretentious asshole, they mention Everest.

To be fair r179, they aren't really "sitting around" they are supposed to be climbing up and going back down to acclimatize. And like was mentioned previously, the fucking Khumbu Ice Fall seems scarier than anything about that trek! They have to do that several times! Fuck the summit, if I climbed Everest, that's what I would brag about.

The images of people queuing to reach the summit are admittedly hilarious.

What if some team of, say, Aussie assholes takes too long up there and the sun will set before teams get in and out of the death zone? Do they have to climb down to the previous camp and wait until the next day?

Yeah they are supposed to r186 but who knows if they do/will.

It's often the ones who don't turn back in time that get into trouble. There's supposed to be a point on the way to the summit that if you don't reach it at a certain time you need to turn back. Many times climbers push on anyway or spend too much time taking pictures and selfies at the top.

'I don't remember the blog addresses but in a fit of morbidity I'd saved some of the photos somewhere'

Lmao why are people so fascinated by these frozen corpses? I read an account of an ascent from the Tibet side and they said one of the bodies was sprawled across the route 'like a high altitude zombie'. I think the climber was Mark Horrell who writes a well known blog. It was such a grim yet humorous description.

What gets me is that they start the climb at about 10pm the previous night and hope to summit by about 2pm so the don't have to climb down the most tricky bits in the dark. Imagine doing most of that climb in pitch black. Apparently your mind is so super spazzed from lack of oxygen that it's really easy to just step off the route and sit down and never get up or fall off the mountain on the way back.

[quote]Krakauer was with Hall for the same reason. He was looking to make his career on the story, as were the two leaders.

Krakauer already was a best-selling author with "Into The Wild". He went to Everest to write about the commercialization of climbing for Outside magazine, but obviously with events that transpired, he had more to tell.

R143

[quote]Machhapuchhare (6,997m), the Fishtail mountain. Part of the Annapurna massif and sacred, meaning nobody is allowed to climb it.

In my worldwide search for relatable anecdotes, I plan to wipe my itchy ass on Machhapuchhare.

r191 I didn't say he wasn't a success, I said he was trying to make his career. In order to do that and make a splash, he had to have access. It was a quid pro quo for both of them. The lack of disclosure re: the weather reports and leaders' access was a huge red flag. It was used as a dramatic device to push his narrative and was disingenuous at best. A better editor would have caught it, especially after the controversy erupted.

FWIW, Into the Wild was also controversial as was his book on rape culture.

My favorite thread.

R193 - could you elaborate on the weather reports? So Karkauer was aware of the forecast for that day? From what we wrote I had an impression the storm surprised them, was it actually expected to happen?

Mallory and Irvine - What Happened

[quote][R191] I didn't say he wasn't a success, I said he was trying to make his career.

I don't understand what you mean by "make his career". Didn't he already have a career? Does that expression mean something else?

No one has climbed Everest in a wheelchair. A paraplegic man completed the trek from Kathmandu to Everest base camp, which is almost 40 miles.

Has this video honoring the sherpas been posted on DL?

[quote]could you elaborate on the weather reports?

Some years later it was revealed that Hall and Fischer were indeed informed about an approaching storm.

I don't think just the storm made the whole climb difficult and dangerous on that day. Several people of Hall's and Fischer's expedition abandoned their ascent because they knew all the prolonged waiting times, for fixing the ropes, too many climbers, bottlenecks etc. would make it impossible for them to get to the summit and back to the south col in time with enough oxygen left to be safe.

I think Lena Gammelgard mentioned she waited more than an hour on the Hillary step before it was her turn to climb up.

On top of this some people stayed on the summit way too long. Fischer didn't give his guides a radio, he himself was hours behind the safe turn around time and his guide Beidleman initially wanted to wait for Fischer to meet up with them on the summit. Lopsang, Fischer's head Sherpa was occupied dragging Pittman's heavy equipment up the mountain instead of fixing ropes beforehand.

So many things went wrong that day.

The garbage. All these people not only leave dead bodies behind, they leave behind all this garbage. I think an attempt to clear it out has been made, but the people who have climbed the mountain in the past have been very disrespectful to the environment. Personally I think it's all about ego and they couldn't give a crap about anything else.

R201: You're right about the garbage. There was an effort a couple of years ago to try and clean up the mess. However, they can only do so much, as trying to dispose of all that rubbish at the various camps is a nightmare and would cost a fortune.

The main problem they have with the bodies is the altitude, a lot of the climbers who died, did so in the death zone, where helicopters can't reach. They have tried to lower the bodies on sledges and ropes in the past, but it is exhausting and extremely dangerous for climbers involved.

R202, its also a matter of money and last wishes. A climber will sign a form stating his or her body should be left on the mountain if they die. If you don't want to be left on the mountain then you need to take out an insurance policy or offer some other way to fund the removal of your body,

R203: I think if you die at a certain altitude on Everest nothing can be done to bring a body down. No helicopters can go beyond a certain point and anyone one who tries to physically manhandle a body at those altitudes will most likely end up dying. A couple of years ago some Nepalese tried to clear some of the bodies and two of them ended up being killed in the attempt.

Checked out a lot of the blogs/Twitter posts linked on the webpage. The Facebook ones don't seem to have any updates. Several are in another language that I can't read. The 7 summits guy is still on track.

R200 - thanks! From the book I of course got an impression the storm was unexpected, at least till they got to the summit. This is fascinating that such an experienced person as Rob Hall made so many reckless decisions on one day. It just shows you why so many people insist on following safety procedures blindly - in most cases the probability is that you will cause less harm than by trying to assess the situation on your own.

No, r204, it depends on how safe it is to lug the body down. If the sherpas feel it can be done, then they try and they get paid for doing so. And, it's not a gentle ride for the body.

It also doesn't have to do with whether or not a helicopter can reach. Often a body is brought down to helicopticoper heights.

They knew the storm was supposed to hit around 5pm but they had no idea how severe it was going to be and expected to get back to Camp 4 before it struck, as Krakauer and some of the others did. The storm came rolling up from the Bay of Bengal and Krakauer wrote about hearing the loudest thunder claps he'd ever heard, rarely heard on Everest. That part of the book was really spooky.

One of the scenes from the book that I always remember was about one climber (I don't think he was from either Hall's or Fischer's team) who was a pilot.

While on the summit that day, he noticed the clouds. According to the book, he was used to flying at these altitudes and knew that when you saw clouds like that when flying you did everything possible to avoid them. After seeing them that day, he left the summit and descended as quickly as possible and was back in camp before the storm hit.

Nepalese Boy Scout leader is climbing from the north in order to plant a scouting flag on the summit before the upcoming worldwide jamboree.

I don't know how they go about finding fresh snow for drinking and cooking water. Except for camp one everybody just shits and pisses outside their tents. And all the dead bodies. I bet half the climbers have diarrhea at some point.

I have a weak stomach and ALWAYS get gastro-intestinal issues at some point if I leave my home country.

I would poo and vomit out half my body weight onto the pristine Himalayas.

That said, I do advocate getting a Lifestraw bottle. They are fab.

The body of Hannelore Schmatz remained a gruesome sight for decades. Two Sherpas tries to recover her body in 1984 but they both fell to their deaths during the attempt.

*tried

Given that there have been numerous deaths of people who were a few hundred yards from shelter, but were lost in white-outs--do climbers now wear radios or bring infrared vision googles--or anything that would make it easier to locate people in distress?

INTO THIN AIR with DL Fave Christopher McDonald as Krakauer.

I think most of the more expensive expeditions assign a Sherpa guide to each climbing client, so that if things go wrong the guide can call for help to assist with a struggling client.

However sometimes disorientation from altitude sickness can happened very quickly, people become disoriented, even violent and then it's difficult for the Sherpa guides to bring a client down. The video link in R199 describes this sort of situation quite well.

There are some more basic expeditions where clients just book accommodation, food and the climbing permit. David Sharp was on one of those. When he fell ill, nobody knew and was there to help him when he was still strong enough to be helped. Once other climbers saw him sitting in Green Boots' cave he couldn't walk anymore and was mostly unconscious. Sharp had climbed all by himself, without oxygen, without Sherpa guides and without radio.

The problem with the highly motivated, Type A, neurotic Wall Street bros, dentists and lawyers that climb Everest and run marathons is that they do not respect risk.

They are used to working when tired, betraying their family, friends and colleagues and doing whatever it takes to succeed. So when they are faced with cerebral edema or a storm on a mountain, they are used to putting their game faces on and powering through. Which you can’t do and expect to live on Everest.

This is true, R218, you get to that station in life by believing that all problems can be solved - solved by wit, expertise, intimidation, networking, bribery, bluffing, whatever works. And the fact is that little of that works when you're confronting Mother Nature in her no-no places, there you have to know when to give up on your goal and run for your life, and when you just need to die gracefully. I confronted a lot of that when I went kayaking in Antarctica (tourist level); for all the practicing and safety training I did, I was aware that in certain situations I wouldn't be able to save myself and hoped by my fellows could save me, and in certain other situations I was just going to die.

And if the Everest guide companies don't make that sort of thing clear to their clients, they're not doing their job. They need to tell their clients from the start that "If you do not retreat when we tell you, you will DIE. If you do not respect the time limits we give you, you will DIE. If you disrespect Mother Nature, you will DIE, etc.".

[quote]And if the Everest guide companies don't make that sort of thing clear to their clients, they're not doing their job. They need to tell their clients from the start that "If you do not retreat when we tell you, you will DIE.

Not sure if this will have any effect. Even professional guides like Rob Hall and Scott Fischer ignored all safety rules and succumbed to summit fever.

If a guy like Rob Hall can't be trusted how do you expect some irrational newbies will listen.

That was back in 1996, r220. Supposedly a lot has changed since then and a lot of the companies now cooperate with each other on rescues. I think the real problem is with a lot of the low cost budget operaters, who cut corners on clients safety at every turn. A good example of that is what happened to Shriya Shah-Klorfine.

But was it HAPE hape?

R217's reference to altitude sickness took me right back to an experience in Colorado when, whilst having the best day skiing, I stopped suddenly on the mountain, felt overwhelming ill, and sighted the tree I determined with strange clarity that was going to curl up, shut down and die under. It took a small army of friends and concerned guides to get me down for medical attention: I was not for budging as every movement made me feel so much worse and I was overcome by a memorable instinct to just bury myself in the snow like a mortally wounded animal. Not surprised so many climbers die in the circumstances described in this thread.

Nice one R222. Thanks to whoever it was earlier in the thread who recommended Denali's Howl - the Andy Hall book about the ill-fated 1967 expedition. I'm about a third of the way through and it's a very interesting read. Made even better when you're reading it with a thunderstorm rumbling outside and a hot cup of tea within easy grasp. Love reading about this stuff even though there's not the least desire to do it myself though I have made it to the top of Mt Kosciusko, Australia's tallest mountain. All 2228 metres of it!

I've done my fair share of dangerous wilderness activities in my day, but I have ZERO ZIP NADA FUCKING NO desire to go into the "Death Zone" above 20,000 feet.

I have no desire to do that to my body, it's not like I can get a new one if I fuck this one up, and I don't have that competitive personality trait that drives people to win every fucking pissing match they can find, even if they have to cross the whole world and climb into the Death Zone to do it.

Shriya Shah-Klorfine was told repeatedly she shouldn't climb and didn't listen. On the mountain she was also told to turn back by her Sherpa guides.

David Sharp, an experienced mountaineer climbed without guides, oxygen or radio.

Lot's of people play Russian Roulette for bragging rights, that hasn't changed over the decades.

R223: Do you know what caused that to happen?

Well, he says "in reference to altitude sickness" and then describes altitude sickness, so my guess is...altitude sickness, r227.

^Yes, R227, I was skiing at Arapahoe Basin which is 13,000 feet above sea level - high enough to get altitude sickness on a pleasant sunny day.

Well, I felt the altitude at Bear Lake in Rocky Mountain National Park (elevation 9475) just with the short walk from the parking lot to the Lake. (See below) So, even the idea of Everest makes me out of breath.

And as for crossing deep crevasses walking over narrow ladders lashed together - No, No, A Thousand Times No.

Reading about it is exciting, but am I the only one who, when reading about the disaster of 1996, didn't wonder why so many people just ignored the warnings. I guess a lot of that type of personality just don't think disaster can happen to them.

I highly recommend David Brashears "Storm Over Everest" from 2007 about the 1996 deaths.

After being dragged up the mountain, Sandy Hill Pittman was yelling repeatedly "I don't want to die", I don't want to die" while in the huddle. Beck Weathers, talking about it (Sandy's yelling) described it with snarky disdain as "Not really helpful".

Beck W deserves surprise anal.

Dry.

Years ago when I watched "Into Thin Air" I had a sympathetic response to the goings on and found I couldn't breathe. I had to turn the show off and went outside and caught my breath.

Actually, I thought Weather's comment about Pittman was pretty fair.

Here you are in a dire situation, freezing to death, winds blowing, snow, trying to keep moving, and all the while some pain in the ass diva is yelling "I don't want to die." over and over. Making a ghastly situation much worse for everyone.

Type A climbers don't listen to the quite low key Sherpa guides who aren't used to screaming and shouting at Westerners. If Scott had had tall, austere Russian Boukreev to shout him down the mountain, he'd probably have been alive today, but the subservient Sherpas with their poor English just aren't up to the task on any level.

The best thing about Into Thin Air is how abundantly clear Krakauer makes it right from the beginning that he loathes Everest. He quite likes the hike to Base Camp but after that he loathes the whole experience. He's terrified in the icefall, has a migraine in the hot stretch after that and suffers hideously from the effects of oxygen deprivation, unable to sleep, eat or feel any kind of emotion when on the summit except fear of the descent.

Another great thing about Into the Thin Air is the title! Inspired.

[quote]If Scott had had tall, austere Russian Boukreev to shout him down the mountain, he'd probably have been alive today, but the subservient Sherpas with their poor English just aren't up to the task on any level.

We don’t know that either of them would have listened to Boukreev. We knew he was milling about there for an HOUR twiddling his thumbs before descending to the previous camp to rest up before aiding the others. That was probably his Soviet training kicking into gear.

[quote]or feel any kind of emotion when on the summit except fear of the descent.

By the time I got to that point in the book, I had no desire to make the climb, but besides the horror of the climb, that really stuck with me. All the time, work, expense, risk, and then you get to the top you are too out of it to appreciate it and have to leave shortly or you will heighten your risk of not surviving the descent.

I've been watching "Storm Over Everest" (PBS-Fontline) on Youtube.

Great opportunity to hear from those on the mountain directly as to their experience. Mostly individuals talking with a minimum of narration.

Breashears noted when he and the rest of the IMAX team were heading down after postponing their summit trip, he encountered both Hall & Fischer on their way up to Camp 3. He noted that Fischer looked tired.

Boukreev must have passed Scott Fischer on his(Boukreev) way down from the summit.. One of the guides from Rob Hall's team, Mike Groom, I think, recalled seeing Fischer still climbing up when he (Groom) was heading down. He remarked how odd it was.

I give Krakauer credit for saying afterwards that he had no business being on that mountain (along with Pittman, Wethers, etc.) I also found his description of wondering around with hypoxia during the descent having these weird delusions. Into Thin Air is a well-done book, whether you agree with Krakauer or not.

R237

Oh, milling for an hour? I bet he just sat there, gloating about people he will kill.

Link below is to PBS Frontline page featuring comments from the survivors of the 1996 events.

Wow.

Just reading some of the comments from the survivors from link at R242.

This from Lou Kasischke in Section "Leadership and Responsibility on the Mountain":

About Lou Kasischke: [quote] Lou Kasischke He had summited six of the seven continents' highest peaks. But on the 1996 Everest expedition, Kasischke (along with John Taske and Stuart Hutchison) decided to turn back after realizing it would be impossible to get to the summit by the set turnaround time.

Lou Kasischke's Comments:

[quote]One of the things that happened on Everest in '96 was that there was a bit of a chill in the relationship there in terms of people being candid. We had a journalist in the expedition who was reporting your performance for the whole world to read about, and it did create a chill. I'm not criticizing Jon Krakauer -- he's a great guy and I like Jon, and he was there doing his job -- but it did create a chill. I, in myself, found myself not wanting to admit publicly how much struggle I was undergoing physically because of my intestinal problems and weaknesses that I felt. So there was a bit of a chill there in terms of candor.

[quote]And you need candor between the leader and the followers. We do expect the leader to know all these things and to figure them out, but he also needs us to give him the feedback that he needs in order to figure those same things out. Rob didn't foster that relationship where he expected us to say these things. But I also didn't feel like I was [sub]servient to his command. In fact, on the 9th [of May] we argued about whether it was a good idea to go to the summit. I disagreed and argued vigorously, "We should not do this." And when Rob finally said, "We're going," I said to myself, "Now or never, but I can always turn back." And I wasn't thinking of turning around or anything there, but I always felt like I had an option at that point in time. ... To me, a good follower is not passive. We weren't sheep; at least, I didn't feel like a sheep.

[quote]There really wasn't any co-leadership there among the other professionals, Andy [Harris] and Mike [Groom]. They were under Rob's direction. And I think it's one of the shortcomings of leadership if you don't put everybody in a position where they can contribute and be supportive, yes, but also the dynamic of feedback, because so many other people know things that you don't know. But Rob didn't do that. Rob did control things, and that was his style. I think Mike had it right at the South Summit when he expressed his concerns about going to the summit. But Rob didn't want to hear it.

[quote]I believe nobody would have died if we had turned around when we had agreed to. And for that matter, I feel that if we had an effective plan for fixing the route and a reasonable pace set, all or many or most would have reached the summit and lived, and there would be no story today. But that didn't happen, and at the end of the day, it's a failure of leadership. It's a story of failure, bad decisions and pressures of the moment, pressures to succeed.

[quote]I think what happened, Rob was overwhelmed at that moment by the pressures. I think Rob knew it was the wrong thing to do, but he was going to figure out a way to get through it. And I think that there's so many of those forces [that] were at work -- the competitive pressures of the Fischer expedition, his own ambitions, the publicity, the numbers of getting people to the top. I even think the fact that some people turned around were forces that were working against Rob at that point, because he needed people to get on top. And all those things combined together with ego and pride suffocating his good judgment.

Continued at next post

Continued from R243

[quote]I think an important part of being a good leader and making good decisions is to have felt failure. I think Rob probably never felt failure in his mind. And it didn't matter whether Andy could handle the altitude or not, because Rob was just going to take care of things. But I think humility is such an important quality in making decisions. It wasn't just unfair to Andy; it was unfair to everybody because we were all dependent upon the leadership here to make the right decisions on that day. And then when Andy got into trouble, there wasn't anybody to help him. ...

[quote]I think at those moments on the Hillary Step holding Doug, Rob's thinking he's still going to figure out a way to get down. He isn't thinking of failure at that point. If he was thinking of failure, he would have asked his Sherpa who were still there with him to help him down. He still figured out he had a way of getting out of a tight spot. He had a history of getting out of tight spots. Rob was perhaps in a way cursed with the lack of failure. Failure is such a good teacher in life. It brings humility, and that humility wouldn't let you stand there at the Hillary Step with another climber on your arm after 4:00. Humility would never allow that.

[quote]Rob was a leader who became a follower. He became a follower of Doug, and he should have been leading Doug. And if he had lead early enough, I think nobody would have died.

[quote]After being dragged up the mountain, Sandy Hill Pittman was yelling repeatedly "I don't want to die", I don't want to die" while in the huddle. Beck Weathers, talking about it (Sandy's yelling) described it with snarky disdain as "Not really helpful".

This was hilariously reenacted on one of those 1996 disaster documentaries. You're watching the reenactment and then some actress lets out this weak, unconvincing "I don't want to die" and takes you completely out of the mood.

At some point that night, Sandy was completely catatonic. Charlotte Fox (who said she herself was perfectly at peace with dying) ended up giving her a shot of Dexamethasone so she would be able to move. I think that's when they formed the huddle.

[quote] At some point that night, Sandy was completely catatonic. Charlotte Fox (who said she herself was perfectly at peace with dying) ended up giving her a shot of Dexamethasone so she would be able to move. I think that's when they formed the huddle.

Sandy collapsed on the way down from the summit. Neil Beidleman talks about finding her face down in the snow, head in the downward direction. Totally collapsed. Charlotte tried to rouse her and could not and with Beidleman's OK, gave her the Dex shot. Additionally at this point, Sandy was low on oxygen. So, Beidleman told Lene Gammelgaard to exchange oxygen bottles with Sandy. He explained that Lene was still up and walking while Sandy could not move.

Sandy was getting help from all sides. Can you imagine giving her your oxygen bottle because hers was almost empty? (!!!!!)

This was while they were descending, before they encountered the storm and before the huddle.

All 4 of these people talk about these events in Breashears "Storm Over Everest".

Sometimes i think Hall, Fischer and company are only people who ever died on Everest. Judging by this thread.

Don't get me started on George Mallory and Sandy Irvine, R247.

- Conrad Anker

Please, start on them. Seriously.

Well, they were both gorgeous, for one.

I am impressed by the great perseverance and resilience shown by those men in the early expeditions. Climbing Everest is a daunting task now, one can only imagine the logistics and resources required to attempt the trek and climb back then.

I would recommend "Into the Silence" by Wade Davis. He paints a detailed yet interesting picture of the men's motivations, interactions, and the journey itself.

The preface and first chapter is available here, or on Amazon etc.

Chapter one actually ignited my interest in earning more about WWI and its human toll.

R250

Well, where are their pictures? Dong? Homosex on Everest? Young minds want to know.

As i remember, there is some controversy about whether Mallory actually was first to conquer Everest or he died before that. Is it True?

Some people think Mallory made it to the summit and others don't think he did.

Mallory supposedly was a very good climber, which he needed to be to get over the second step. Today a ladder, put in place by a Chinese team, helps climbers mastering the difficult second step. But Mallory had to do it free style in '24.

I think Conrad Anker, who discovered Mallory's frozen body in 1999 tried free climbing the second step and succeeded, he now thinks Mallory had a good chance reaching the summit. But nobody knows for sure.

Mallory had a big hole in his forehead, he was laying facedown, half buried in screed that had accumulated around his body over the decades.

I don't think the mystery about how he died has been solved. Irvin's ice ax was found not far away.

Andrew "Sandy" Irvine

R252 here are Irvine and Mallory. No homosex on the mountain as far as I know, but there was nudity! See next post, if I can ever get this crap Internet connection to work. Also Mallory was bi curious in his younger days and supposedly was interested in homosociality even in his later years. He'd had a sexual encounter with James Strachey at university, and that seemed to have turned him off from further pursuits in that direction.

George Mallory posing for a nude art photo

George Mallory on the right. Trekking to the mountain.

The discovery of Mallory's body on Everest. Conrad Anker found it.

R254

It sounds like Agatha Cristie's mystery.

R257

Love it!

I read Anker's (very good) book about the search for Mallory's body R254. He tried climbing the Second Step without using the ladder but at one point he needed to put a foot onto it in order to keep going up. Part of his reason for wanting to do it sans ladder was to see if he thought Mallory could also have accomplished that. His final 'verdict' was that despite being full of praise for Mallory as a climber he didn't think he made the summit on that last expedition. If that aspect of Everest interests you his book is a really great read.

Here's a thought - could there have been structural changes on the Second Step in the interval, caused by something like an earthquake,or avalanche, or warming temperatures melting ice and dislodging boulders?

Pippa Middleton married a hedge fund manager from a prominent family; his brother, Michael Matthews, died on Everest in 1999. His body has never been found.

One of the strangest thing read was story of disappearance of this young guy who wanted to snowboard from the top of Everest.

and there's a Guardian article about it. He disappeared in a snow storm after summiting. A closed inquiry with the guides found no fault. A couple of the other clients on that trek complained about the oxygen cylinders but the guide that went ahead of him to clear the rope said he was moving very slowly.

here is my thing g with Everest. I love these threads. I've read several of the books mentioned after the first "dead bodies on Mt Everest " thread a few years ago.

What sticks with me is a trailer for some IMAX movie I saw many years ago before I even came to DL. In the trailer, it shows the silhouette of some climber standing on Everest. I don't know at what elevation.

But the climber is standing there and the full moon is RIGHT NEXT to this person. Like he could just reach OUT - not UP - to touch it. OUT. Dude was as high up as the moon. Now, think about that.

The only other time I've seen the moon at eye level is when I was taking the red eye from Orlando and the moon was full. It was literally right outside the window at eye level, just like in that Everest trailer.

People forget that. Everest is 30,000 FEET UP! it is the cruising altitude of a plane!

R266

This story is the quintessence of everything that is wrong with Everest. Not the mountain, of course, but all the hysteria that surrounds it. I read the article. It seems like that guy had very little experience. It sounded like he wanted to please his self made daddy. Bored, rich, young. I feel sorry for him.

Boukreev saved Sandy Pittman's life and she never thanked him. He went out at night when he could have been easily swept off the side of the mountain and made two dangerous trips and rescued three people. It irks me to see armchair sleuths criticize this man - which is so easy to do given that he has been dead for a decade.

R172 this is the only pic I've ever found of an Everest body where the face is clearly visible. Does anyone know who this is (sorry if this has been discussed on DL before)? Just going by appearances, it looks like it might be Scott Fischer.

I thought they got Fischer down pretty much right when he died? Maybe not though.

That picture is fake, r270.

Sandy Pittman did get the chance to apologize to Boukreev some time later, back in the U.S. She flew him down to her place in New Mexico (or something like it) and they spent the weekend together talking about the whole event. They both got some stuff sorted out that weekend, which is good to know since he didn't live too much longer after that.

R273

Apologize for what? She said something negative about him? Did Kerkauer ever apologized or expressed regret for unfairly putting blame for those events on Boukreev?

What about me, bitches? Why haven't I been mentioned yet? I was there too. And my heart still weeps for all those losers that ate the snow that night.

I couldn't be happier that she survived of course, but they really should have just left Periling Penelope Pittman the way they found her. Face down and ass in the air was such a natural position for her. If she had perished like the mountain intended, [italic]I[/italic] would have been the Reigning Cuntess of Everest, and I wouldn't have needed any fucking cappuccino maker to live up to my title.

But it was indeed very tragic that neither of the guides made it... I was so much better than them. But it was so sad.

Here is a video from the Island Peak climb (around 6000 m.n.p.m) for those of you interested in such escapades. The mountain is situated just in front of Everest range and it looks like it is probably the closest you can get to feel what it's like to stand on top of Himalayas without risking too much (obviously there is always some risk, especially connected to High Altitude Sickness, but comparable to that when you do Everest Base Camp trek when the highest point is Kala Patthar ~5600 m.n.p.m). It is also not a very technical route, some experience with crampons is needed but one doesn't have to be an expert. Definitely on my bucket list.

Are you implying Irvine murdered him? R254

R277: It was a lovers tiff. What a lot of people don't know is how Irvine and Mallory had been locked in an illicit affair all during the preparations for the conquest of Everest. When they actually set out on the expedition however, Mallory had cooled considerably on the relationship and that left Irvine furious.

Secret archives from the British alpine club have revealed diaries and love letters from both Mallory and Irvine that have chronicled the affair between the two men. It has been speculated that Irvine in his anger over the rejection by Mallory killed him during the attempt on the summit and then killed himself in a classic case of "chaleur de la passion".

Hillary and Tensing never really became close after they submitted together. Tensing was always closer to his Swizz climbing partners he joined in 1952, one year before the the British expedition made the successful attempt on Everest.

This just played on the BBC.......

Mountain

BBC Four, 8.00pm

Narrated by Willem Dafoe with a script drawn from Robert Macfarlane’s book Mountains of the Mind, and filmed by leading high-altitude cinematographers, this spectacular documentary gets to grips with humanity’s obsession with climbing. It’s a contemplative affair, which offers a potted history of mountaineering while displaying mountain ranges in all their terrible peril and majesty....

Looking for a copy now

R277: Mallory had most likely hit a rocky outcrop or large stone when he fell and that would explain the large hole in his skull. It certainly makes more sense than Irvine had attacked him.

274 While Boukreev was alive, Pittman never acknowledged his role in saving her life. She has continued to downplay how close to death she was and how without Boukreev helping her in the blizzard, she would have died.

Göran Kropp discovered Scott's body on Everest. Boukreev had covered his face with his pack. I believe he also found Rob Hall's body.

R272 That body was photographed by Dipankar Ghosh on his ascent of Lhotse.

When his body was found (you can find the video on Youtube) it was clear from his position that Mallory had a broken leg and had moved his other leg over the broken leg to protect it.

R278, yes, sure, Mallory and Irvine would leave their love letters to their club. How is that fiction writing class going? This effort needs a lot of work.

Two injured as ice collapse hits Mt Everest route Published: April 25, 2018 5:16 pm RAJAN POKHREL

Climbers are seen in Camp I of Mt Everest as captured on Wednesday, April 25, 2018. Photo: Tendi Sherpa

KATHMANDU: At least two climbing Sherpas were injured when the icefall section of the Mt Everest witnessed an ice collapse early this morning, according to the expedition officials.

The incident occurred at around 4:00 am when a group of climbing Sherpas headed for Camp I from the base camp for acclimatisation, Rishi Bhandari, Managing Director at Satori Adventures Pvt Ltd said.

Ngima Sherpa who suffered severe injury on his back has been airlifted to Kathmandu for treatment while Dendi Sherpa is undergoing treatment at base camp clinic set up by Himalayan Rescue Association, he shared. “Sherpa is undergoing treatment at Norvic International Hospital in Kathmandu,” he said, adding that his condition was out of danger.

According to Ang Dorjee Sherpa, Chairman at Sagarmatha Pollution Control Committee, icefall doctors took nearly two hours to reopen the route. “Now, the icefall route is open as incidents like an ice collapse or small avalanches are normal on the mountains,” Sherpa told THT from Namche Bazaar. Icefall section is considered as one of the riskiest areas on the way to Mt Everest summit.

The trained Sherpa climbers have already fixed ropes to the yellow band near the Geneva Spur above Camp III, Mingma Sherpa, Managing Director at Imagine Treks, said. “Depending upon the weather condition, our team plans to make summit push on Mt Lhotse in a couple of days,” he added.

Dendi Sherpa of Tag Nepal who is now at the base camp said that his team safely returned to the base camp today after spending two nights at Camp I for acclimatisation. “Climbers have already started making acclimatisation rotation along the high camps,” he added. According to him, most of the expeditions have already set up their tents at Camp I ferrying loads to the high camps. The base camp is being crowded with climbers and their support staff.

Tilak Ram Pandey, an official at the Department of Tourism said that at least 347 members of 38 teams, including 20 Nepali female climbers, obtained climbing permits to attempt to climb Mt Everest till date while over 1,000 Nepali support staff would accompany world climbers in the Mt Everest region. Additionally, three Nepali women have also headed to the Mt Everest region to work as climbing guide this season, he said.

“The DoT also issued climbing permits to 88 climbers of eight different teams for Mt Lhotse,” he said, adding that there were 574 climbers who obtained climbing permits for different mountains including Mt Kanchenjunga (42) and Mt Makalu (36) in the spring season. “Twenty six climbers including Spanish climber Carlos Soria Fontan (79) have obtained permits for Mt Dhaulagiri.”

First group summited Lhotse today.

R278 is the Spaz Troll, f & f

Why are all the Sherpas called Lopsang, Ang, Jangbu or Mingma?

Apparently Irvine and Mallory had a huge fight and Irvine thwacked Mallory with his ice axe.

Ice collapse at 4 am?

They travel over the ice falls at night when it's colder just to avoid that.

Not a good sign.

r286 I read that in another account-not the murder theory, but that they were a couple. I lost the bookmark when I upgraded my computer. It was around the time of Davis' book, which was good but 'inned' Mallory. He was quite the 'beautiful boy' in upper class circles and apparently took full advantage.

Nothing wrong with that, except Irvine was apparently not an experienced enough climber, compared to others, who could have summited. The reason given then and now was Irvine was good with the rudimentary oxygen kits Mallory considered using.

I think the picture at R270 is from a movie.

Considering how Beck Weather's face looked, blackened nose and cheeks from frost bites, and he was still alive.

Not only that, r290, but there re animals up there that eat the exposed bits.

R278 Link please

R109, I agree with others who claim that one is missing the experience of trekking to BC, by foregoing the natural acclimation process that such a trek provides the climber.

R19, “hill gay”?

That’s gotta be the funniest thing we’ve read all week.

R291: I've read that recently the temperature at some of the higher altitudes on Everest has increased to the point that animals such as wolverines are for the first time being seen. Furthermore, some of the bodies have been scavenged and eaten by these animals.

Probably at lower altitudes, r295. It's not just the tempreature, it's the lack of oxygen that keeps the larger critters away.

There are two bird species, both scavengers, that have been seen as high as 27,000 feet that feed on the exposed fleshy bits of those who have died higher up. Radiation that high up bleaches the bones too.

R296: I agree up to a point. However, I've read credible accounts that some of the bodies at the higher altitudes are being consumed. For instance, the picture of the body posted by R169 has reportedly been scavenged by wolverines. I'm not sure how high they're managing to make it up to, but they are being seen at higher elevations on Everest.

This thread has sent me into all sorts of deep dives on the Internet. I'm kind of doubtful about wolverines in the death zone, but a griffon vulture was spotted flying at 37,000 feet (and they're endemic to the Himalayas), so it is possible some carrion birds have been having a snack. And griffon vultures do eat dead humans--setting corpses on high towers (towers of silence) was a traditional means of body disposal in this part of the world.

Mount Everest is just a really *high* tower.

R280 I saw it at a film festival. It’s mostly a visual affair rather than a narrative one - think FANTASIA vs SNOW WHITE - but it looks very beautiful.

Here is an account of the expedition to find George Mallory's body.

Yes, r298, the vulture is one of the two bird species that I was referring to. The other looks like a crow and both eat the bodies in the death zone.

I have no doubt that wolverines are being seen at higher than normal altitudes, but I highly doubt they going into the death zone to feast. There are also bear, goats, deer and few other animal species that live on Everest. The larger animals don't really venture higher than 20k.

George Mallory's buttock muscles had been torn and eaten by the birds as well, and he was found high up (27000 ft?)

Yep R302, the article at R300 mentions this.

If I were stupid enough and egotistical enough to try and climb Everest, I'd actually feel better knowing that some birds might get a meal out of me if I died. Beats just being an ugly corpse and it really beats endangering other people to just get my corpse off the mountain.

Just spin a prayer wheel for me or something.

OP, and others here: have any of you ever considered climbing Everest? Like, seriously looked into it?

R299 oh, thanks for the heads up, just about to watch, was expecting a narrative so shall just revel in the majesty. Also watched 'Sherpa', fuck those filmmakers were gifted an amazing story. But the lies the asshole liar mcliar face told trying the 'sherpas in danger so no climbing' crapreally made me hate him more, if possible, what a sack of shit he is

I read the book about the doctor who hired a total idiot to guide him and the6 abandoned him in the Death Zone. I think I did more research on the laundry detergent I use than he did on this “guide.”

^ then.

Hill gay is real, guys.

Once the altitude goes above 5000 metres, men get so horny they don't care who's down there giving them a bj. I've had that experience with three 'straight' friends during climbing trips. But what happens on the mountain, stays on the mountain so we keep it between ourselves.

R305, not really. I am terrified of avalanches so even base camp would be out of the question for me. I am very interested in the Annapurna circuit however. Something I am better prepared to handle and within my budget.

R310, many of the hikers on the Annapurna circuit were killed by the 2015 avalanche. It's definitely vulnerable and you still get altitude sickness up there.

Nope. I tried plain old rock climbing once and kind of hated it. Ironically, my parents were both mountain climbers, so I grew up knowing something about the whole early mountain-climbing culture. Instead of a gun, my mother kept her ice axe next to the bed.

I felt out of breath on the top of Mount Haleakala (10,000 feet), so I suspect I'm not a great candidate for high altitudes.

R290 Dipankar Ghosh on his ascent of Lhotse photographed the dead climber. It is real life on the mountain, not a movie.

R304 There are no birds flying around Everest - the air is too thin. Maybe a Yeti would come down and have a bite or two...

[quote]Dipankar Ghosh on his ascent of Lhotse photographed the dead climber.

I have trouble believing this isn't some staged shot of an actor with makeup on pretending to be a dead person. This looks fake.

Also the photo is nowhere to be found on that website R313.

R314 There is a species of goose which flies over when they migrate. It does not really live there but it is feasible height for some of the birds (albeit it is difficult - I think the BBC Earth Series 1 'Mountains' episode included them).

How do birds cope with the thin air/low lift and low oxygen levels so high up on the mountain. Some bird species fly over the Himalayas. They don't need to acclimatize?

Not true, r314, there's a buzzard type bird and a black bird that are native to Everest and have been seen in the death zone. They might not live up there all year, or even spend the night up there, but they do venture up and are fine.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

As I've said, I've done some fairly challenging and dangerous wilderness stuff and I would love to trek through the stunning Himalayas if I ever get fit enough, but I have ABSOLUTELY ZERO desire to go into the "death zone" for any reason.

By all accounts being up there is absolutely hellish, where sleep is impossible, the camps are filthy, every step is gasping agony, etc., and my idea of fun doesn't involve submitting myself to absolute hell in pursuit of a pointless goal.

I know some 'serious' climbers, not guys who get sponsorship from big companies, but good enough to get some small grants and save some money to climb Broad Peak or Cho Oyu (both above 8000 m.n.p.m). They spend most of their free time climbing, trekking, skiing etc. And they do it for years before even thinking about going anywhere close to a difficult mountain. Before climbing in Himalayas most of them practices in Kyrgyzstan, which is consider a good training ground as there are a lot of mountains close to 7000 m.n.p.m or higher. This way, in case shit hits the fan (and it seems to me that in most cases you do have some difficulties at some point), they are at least familiar enough with equipment or techniques that they can do stuff almost automatically. I really do not see how one can even think about climbing Mt. Everest without years of extensive training and practice (Some of them would rather try other 8k peaks before trying Everest, as they are considered a bit easier).

What is m.n.p.m., r321?

Believe it ir not, r321, Everest isn't considered that difficult from a technical perspective.

r323 is right, Everest is high but not technical like Annapurna, it's supposed to be pretty easy once you get there.

Everest has routes to the top that involve no technical climbing now that there are ladders up the hard bits, which isn't true of any of the other major Himalayan peaks. Everyone on these threads knows that.

So here's a question - if the route to the top is so fucking easy that your dentist has no trouble, why did the early explorers take decades to make it to the summit?

Because r325 they didn't have the "yellow brick road" to the top back then. It's because it's so populated now that they have it down to a science.

R325, no sherpas laying down ladders and ropes. There are a couple of tricky parts on Everest--the icefall above Base Camp--when the 2015 earthquake/avalanche struck, it took out the ladders and everyone above base camp was stranded and had to be evacuated by helicopter (risky at that altitude). A couple of sherpas died trying to put ladders back.

Even with the guides, fixed, ropes, etc., people still die on a regular basis on Everest.

I think those wanting a mountaneering challange would try northern ridge route which involves a lot of climbing amd where no commercial expeditions go

Nepal was closed off. They did not allow foreigners to enter their country. The British tried to get permission but were refused because of political reasons. It was only after WWII that Nepal opened up.

Also, while you can basically walk up it, you still need oxygen and it wasn't until after WWII that reliable oxygen equipment was available.

[quote]why did the early explorers take decades to make it to the summit?

In the early days people weren't used to travel as much as we do now, thus Tibet and Nepal was only interesting for some rich royals or a few daredevils. Also you needed a lot of money and organization skills to put an expedition together.

The 53 expedition that put Hillary and Tensing on the top of Everest was a huge undertaking. They employed more than 500 porters to carry all the stuff, equipment and food up to the base camp and the various tents camps. The previous expedition by the Swizz in 52 failed because their oxygen set didn't work properly. The British expedition in 53 tried twice that year. The first pair of climbers, Tom Bourdillon and Charles Evans failed because their oxygen set also didn't work (they used a closed circuit set)

The Swizz expedition was actually the first (or second) time people tried to climb up the summit from the south. Tibet was invaded by China in 1950 and that closeted the north col route. Nobody at that time knew whether you could get through the Icefall. Tensing was the only person in 53 who successfuly had been through the icefall, the Western Cwm and up the Lhotse face. That's why the British wanted him on their team.

Conrad Anker did the route Mallory took with the same equipment, clothes, heavy oxygen set, hobnail boots - just to see how climbing was in the 20s and he said it was very difficult compared to today. He got extremely cold, his feet got numb and the heavy equipment made him tired.

People in the early days just didn't have the sophisticated technical equipment we have now.

R305 never to summit but I have explored trekking to base camp, Nepal, and Kathmandu while I'm there. I wouldn't want to camp in a sea of garbage though however the pictures I've seen this year looks like it's pretty cleaned up. I don't think the leave it trashed like they did years past.

I do have a slight interest (if the time ever comes) in 'ending it all' right on the summit of Everest. To get frozen to the actual summit, and hopefully they will not be able to remove me. Everyone who summits will have to place their hand on my corpse. That'll learn em!

The really expensive expeditions promise to make the Death Zone a happy experience by putting their clients on 8 litres of oxygen a minute instead of the average 2/3. This makes them feel as if they're still at Base Camp and they sleep fine and climb quickly.

Only the high end clients get this, it's a trade secret.

R322, I think it’s “meters above sea level,” only in another language. (Polish, maybe?)

[quote] A UK TV personality and an Olympic athlete are moving up to camp 3 today. [bold]One of them has a fear of heights/[/bold]

How is going to do this?

I would prefer to summit from the Chinese side, I think. Chinese regulation might work as a safety factor.

R315 Yes the photo is on his gallery you numpty. Try looking harder. Look at the photo posted here - it has his god damn name plastered on it. You conspiracy theory nimnut- it is a photo taken by Ghosh on Lhotse. People die all the time on these mountains. It is not photoshopped nor from a movie. It is a tragic scene Ghosh captured on Lhotse.

[quote]Yes the photo is on his gallery you numpty.

Either you are blind or I am because I din't see it in either of his albums.

r332 I think a lot of the climbers feel like that, I would too, if I die there I want to be a landmark like Green Boots was all these years.

Can anybody recommend a good book on Reinhold Messner? He's arguably the greatest still-living climber of all time, yet will forever be subject to rumors about whether or not he left his brother behind to die on Nanga Parbat (I suspect they both did their best to help each other down the mountain, but Reinhold's claim that his brother died in an avalanche seems a little . . . convenient).

Watching this film was enough to put me off even the smallest mountains. Not sure if it's still available anywhere but it's a fascinating watch. I have no idea how this guy survived.

I read that book, r341!

Wow! I had forgotten about it until I read the film synopsis. Excellent read but harrowing!

After reading that, I fell down the "I survived" rabbit hole on cable.

It is really incomprehensible how Joe survived. Just his single-minded purpose to live is all he had. Read the book! It's amazing and terrifying.

I should get around to reading the book, I expect it's better than the film. I've read a couple of interviews with Joe and he does strike me as incredibly single minded, I think sheer stubbornness is how he made it through. He has never married or had children because he believes climbing is too selfish a pursuit, I'm inclined to agree with his stance.

There's a documentary where he retraces a famous climb (can't remember where) that was good too.

Reinhold Messner is a bit of a loon and very controversial figure. He once claimed he saw a yeti. I think all that time in oxygen deprived environments ate half his brain away.

R305 here. I’ve considered it, but will likely never do it. The money involved is just too much. Also, I had my left lung collapse, followed by my right lung two weeks later. I was running quite a bit during that time, and it took me several months to recover completely. Worst pain I’ve ever experienced. So I don’t believe I’d be a good candidate for those altitudes.

I would love to visit Nepal, however, and most probably will within the next 5 to 7 years.

It comes down to cash and ability. After two lungs collapsing, no way would I consider it. But spending over 50 to 80K to summit with a decent outfit is something that I wouldn’t be able to justify financially. No way.

R341-r342, I watched the film not knowing *anything* about it, the ending was a complete shocker. Loved it.

I’ve been reading No Shortcuts to the Top by Ed Viesturs. He was on K2 with five people, including Rob Hall and Scott Fisher. The two others also ended up dead in mountaineering accidents. It’s an interesting read.

R347, What's Viestur's take on Everest, Krakauer, Hall, Fischer and all?

Viesturs was on the phone with Rob Hall at camp 2, persuading him to descend without Doug Hanson to save himself. But Rob Hall refused to leave Doug alone, I guess he realized he fucked up big time still encouraging climbers to summit even though they were way behind schedule and save turn around times.

Both Viesturs and Breashears were on the mountain that day. Both of them and several others including Tensing Norgay's son Jamling and Pete Athans went up to south col to rescue climbers and assisted them descending down the Lhotse face.

There is a Ted talk somewhere on youtube by the doctor who attended to the climbers, including Beck Weathers and Makalu Gay. Worth checking out, the doctors name is Ken Kamler.

*Makalu Gau

Thanks, R349, yeah Rob Hall paid for commercializing Everest--if Doug Hansen hadn't been a paying customer for the second-time around, he wouldn't have pushed for the summit when Hansen wasn't up to it. Hall sacrificed himself and his kid ended up without a father.

I believe Reinhold Messner is on Everest ATM. I only know this because I was reading an Everest blog and one of the comments was asking if anyone had seen him. The blogger replied that he had been seen around. Just a bit of useless info for you.

Please ignore my last comment at R352 - It was a completely different person not Reinhold. Silly me!

R344, Messner pioneered a bunch of new routes and lives in a castle in Italy. He IS a loon, which in conjunction with his accomplishments--and possible criminality--interests me. First solo ascent of Everest, first ascent of Everest without supplemental oxygen: he's in a class of his own. He's the most interesting weirdo climber of them all, it seems.

R349, From what you posted put this at Rob Hall’s feet. Very silly to play God for $$$.

R341, It's on YouTube complimentary.

Reading about Viesturs--had the reputation as Mr. Safety First--to the point of turning back from a summit of Everest a few hundred meters away. That's an interesting combo--big on safety, but crazy enough to climb high-altitude mountains.

But climbers are a funny breed--my mother liked that it was slow and thoughtful--there's a problem-solving aspect that both my parents enjoyed. It's a weird combination of intellectual and adrenaline rush. It is kind of addictive--they had friends who pretty much were climbers--everything else in their lives was there to make climbing possible.

r351 in fairness, having a child isn't all his decision. These women who marry extreme adventure types and have their children know the risks. Ultimately, it's their decision-hopefully with their partner's input.

It's not just Hall's wife who lost a husband or the kid who got no father.

Hall not only encouraged Doug Hanson to summit even though it was way too late for that; and as it was later revealed, the guides were informed about an approaching storm. He also asked his guide Andy Harris to climb up to them with more oxygen. Harris also got caught in the storm and died. Mike Groom was the only guide left of Hall's team and he had to take care of both Beck Weathers and Yasuko Namba, who were too weak to walk once they had located the tents on south col.

R358, Fair enough. And true, R359, Harris, too, would have survived if Hall had backed off the summit with Hansen.

Krakauer, as I recall, ended up going down without a guide because he'd summitted earlier. Weathers was also without a guide, which is part of the reason he ended up in such bad shape. Just one bad decision after another.

Don't know if this article showed up in earlier threads, but Krakauer's still pissed off about Everest. This one is about how the death toll for Western climbers has dropped, but not for Sherpas, who are carrying heavier loads--thanks to all those extra oxygen bottles.

I understand why the Sherpas are mad. They are doing all the heavy lifting and hardly get any credit. Most of the people don't even know their names.

It was a couple of Sherpas who risked their lives the next day while the storm was still raging, in an attempt to rescue Hall. Hall's sirdar Ang Dorje was one of them. In that Frontline docu by Breashears he's interviewed about it.

Fischer's sirdar Lopsang also went up the next day to see if Fischer could still be saved. Lopsang and his team brought down Makalu Gau, who was still alive. Hall was too high on the mountain for the Sherpas to reach him.

More 1996 guilt--this time from Krakauer's editor who points out that Fischer and Hall both competed to have Krakauer on their team. He wonders whether their recklessness came, in part, because they were trying to get as many people to summit as possible to look good for Outside's audience.

r360 Weathers was in bad shape because he had just had eye surgery and didn't tell anyone and his eyes basically exploded at the altitude leaving him essentially blind. That reckless crew maybe would have let him go anyhow, but he shouldn't have been up there and he knew it which is why he didn't tell anyone about the surgery.

One thing I don’t understand about 1996. Would it have been unthinkable for Hall or Fischer to deliberately not summit? It seems almost like they should be with their slower people, and at least according to Krakauer Fischer was not really in good form to summit yet he just kept going up.

Fischer, in particular, should have held back since he wasn't in top shape. Hall was in good shape, but he shouldn't have pushed Hansen to the top when Hansen wasn't up to it.

And, yeah, Weathers had no business being there. And I don't know why the hell so many people ended up close to Camp IV waiting for hours before they were found--you'd think some kind of tracking/infrared whatever would be somewhere. Even some kind of flare or high-beam at the camp, but maybe there were reasons for that.

Thanks, R365. Not wanting to keep this thread overly focused on 1996, but I’m re-reading Into Thin Air and it’s amazing how so many small things lead to disaster. If Rob had stuck to the turnaround time, or even if after stranded with Doug he had known there was oxygen a short climb away, but an addled Andy Harris thought there wasn’t .... if Scott had not summited but hung back. If Krakauer had not mistaken the one guy for Andy Harris Rob might have realized he wasn’t completely out of his mind and tried harder to descend. I’m guessing the guides pushed themselves to summit so they could market themselves as “x time” summiteers bringing “x clients” to the top.

In the "Storm On Everest" documentary, Lou Kasischke, one of Rob Hall's team, remarks that that night when Hall came to their tents to tell everyone to get ready because they were heading for the summit, he says that Doug Hansen looked as if he really did not want to go.

It was Kasischke, along with John Taske and Stuart Hutchison, all from Rob Hall's team, who decided to turn back en route after realizing due to the time, the number of people climbing in front of them and the turnaround time that they did not think they would make the summit within the time constraints.

One of the Sherpas interviewed said that he told Doug Hansen that he (Hansen) should turn around, but Hansen shook his head and kept going up.

At least Krakauer reported Doug stepped out of line to turn back, but Rob spoke to him in a conversation that can never be recounted and Doug then continued on. Strange Doug would get lung surgery so close to the climb having been in high altitude before, but maybe it was unavoidable.

From what I understand, the Everest threads just keep coming back to 1996--the damn thing is just so compelling--tragic flaws, dramatic characters, one really well-written book, a film crew around at the time, a storm out of nowhere. Folly, tragedy, a couple of miraculous survivals--it's Shakespearian or operatic. I, for one, would love a dingbat soubrette to play Sandy Hill Pittman--she could have a duet about the ass shot with a mezzo Charlotte Fox.

Well put, R369.

r365 Fischer didn't assign radios. Boukreev, for one, could've used one.

Could someone clarify the business about the weather in 1996. I've seen references on here about some people knowing about the storm beforehand, but it's never been spelled out, or sourced that I know of.

Also, about radios... who had them?

Obviously, Rob Hall had one since he communicated to Base Camp when they connected him to his wife in New Zealand.

But who else had radios?

I did hear that when climbers hoping to help reached Camp 4 they asked to borrow the radio from the South African team and were refused. (Cathy O'Dowd claimed that the South Africans were asked to maintain contact with Base Camp.) (See "The Dark Side of Everest" on Youtube.)

The weather forecasts weren't nearly as accurate 20 years ago. They knew a storm was coming in but figured they would be back at Camp 4 before it hit. They didn't know how intense it would get further up the mountain.

Well, if you know a storm is coming, you try to not head up the summit when you are way behind schedule. Also the storm was so bad that the moorings of the tents were getting loose. Even for the people who made it to south col and into their tents it was a very dangerous situation.

I can't remember who said it in the Breashears docu, but the climbers where practically stranded on south col for 2 1/2 days in the storm. They put Beck Weathers in a tent by himself after he stumbled into camp the next day. The next morning his tent had collapsed. They all were lucky they weren't blown down the Kangshung face.

Just watched the Dark Side of Everest--the South Africans give me the creeps. Definitely every man (woman) for himself. Shadows of the apartheid mentality.

Then there's the good old American hubris of that woman who climbed (and died) without oxygen and left a seven-year-old son behind--but, hey, she asked his permission first. Nothing like a lifelong bereavement/guilt trip.

I’ve just downloaded The Boys of Everest, which I’ve never read before. I’m on a waiting list for The Climb, which is Boukreev’s response to Krakauer.

R372, Fischer and Lopsang Sherpa had radios. I’m not sure who else. Are they so expensive they can’t just hand them out to everyone? Or at least all guides. Much more useful than Sandy Pittman’s internet phone ....

[quote]Just watched the Dark Side of Everest--the South Africans give me the creeps. Definitely every man (woman) for himself.

I don't know what you're talking about. The heartwarming heat of my burning compassion is what kept me alive on that mountain--unlike Rob and Scott and the other pitiful deaths that night, whose names currently escape me because I only remember winners. They died. It was particularly emotional listening to Rob radioing his ugly wife, knowing that unlike me, he didn't have what it took to make it through the night. Especially since she was one Hillary Step away from shitting out their fuck certificate, which meant it would have to grow up not knowing its father. It was just so, so tragic. My tear ducts are still frostbitten, but I make sure to call his wife every May 11th and remind her that her husband is dead... Oh, shit, that's coming up again next week.

The Cathy O’Dowd posts are hilarious.

I don't remember who said it, but there was some climber somewhere who said that he wanted to have kids because he knew that he was likely to die young... and he wanted to leave something of himself behind.

Fucking selfish egoist that he was, whoever said that.

Where do you download Boukreev's The Climb R376?

[quote] Just watched the Dark Side of Everest--the South Africans give me the creeps.

Same here R375. That Cathy O'Dowd and that sick smile of her. No matter how dire the circumstances she talked about, she kept smiling.

Imaging leaving one of your team as the LAST PERSON ON THE MOUNTAIN for that season! To have him discovered by climbers from the NEXT YEAR's climbs dangling from ropes for a year.

Sick, sick, sick.

Former Olympic cyclist Victoria Pendleton has had to hit the brakes on her climb up Mount Everest because of health concerns.

She had been climbing the world's tallest mountain with TV presenter Ben Fogle but was advised by doctors to leave the expedition after suffering from oxygen deficiency.

The 37-year-old, who was on course to reach the summit, made the announcement on Instagram.

"The weather conditions have offered the possibility of an early summit bid, as a consequence I have been unable to adhere to the prescribed rotation program and keep pace with the team without causing concern regarding my health at the higher camps," she said.

Two mountaineers are trying to recreate NASA’s twin study—on Mount Everest

By Vedrana Simicevic May. 4, 2018 , 12:15 PM NASA’s widely publicized twin study—which compared astronaut Scott Kelly’s bodily functions to those of his earthbound identical twin brother—is getting a follow-up in one of the most forbidding environments on Earth. Two experienced mountaineers are in the middle of a month-long expedition to Mount Everest, while their twins stay at sea level. The primary goal: to sequence DNA and RNA from their white blood cells and search for possible changes in gene expression.

Are their noses frost bitten?

I am on the waiting list on Open Library, R380.

R382's post: I was reading about her. I don't remember that she had any mountaineering experience although she must have been very fit.

Thanks for Touching the Void tip. The doc is available on Amazon Prime Video so Ill be watching tonight.

Pop up restuarant on Everst is an 8-day climb.

Thanks R385!

Signed up onto the waiting list, let us know how you liked it when you finished reading the book, will ya!

Victoria Pendleton made a sensible decision. I didn't think that she would be able to do it, no offence to her, but it is very tough on the body. Both her and Fogel have climbed a few mountains in prep but when I looked they were nothing on the scale of Everest. Ben Fogel said he dragged a sledge to the South Pole as part of his prep.

I was reading that one of his dreams is to swim 3,400 miles across the Atlantic - haha. Keep dreaming Ben. Perhaps he will reconsider after this.

I am finding his instagram very interesting and enjoy reading about his experience. The guide they are using is Kenton Cool who has summited Everest 12 times. I also read that he has CNN? with him making a film about his attempt. I can't wait to see it.

Looks like they already have a date for the film I mentioned in the post above "The show will air in two parts - on June 30 and July 7 - on CNN International."

Ben Fogke sounds like he has trained very thoroughly. Coping with altitude seems to be the most important thing, though, and you can’t tell how any single body will respond.

It looks like there won't be any summit tries until around May 11 due to the weather.

In the Series I'm watching on prime, the Norwegian who is climbing prepped himself by hiking 10 miles a day carrying 150lbs.

Thus far, he's made the best times of anyone in his group and is holding up well.

A good way to train seems to be with a plastic bag over your head, with just one small hole for air.

Is Dark Side of Everest the documentary that has the story about the guy whose body they found next year, they developed pictures on his camera and the last picture on the roll was a selfie at the top of the summit? That kind of freaked me out, that he would look so normal in the picture and then 20 minutes later, he died and was left dangling from the top Mount Everest for a year.

Yes, R396, that whole story was disturbing.

Leaving your client up as the last person on the mountain?

Nasty.

Indonesian Students Reach 7,000 Meter High on Mount Everest TEMPO.CO, Bandung - Two female students joined in the Women of Indonesia’s Seven Summits Expedition Mahitala from the University of Parahyangan Bandung, Fransiska Dimitri Inkiriwang and Mathilda Dwi Lestari are currently in a healthy state after reaching Mount Everest's 7,000 meters above sea level height.

Both women have descended back to the Everest Base Camp Tibet (5,150 meters above sea-level). “The acclimatizing process went well. I never imagined reaching the height of 7,000 meters,” said Mathilda on a phone interview to the support team in Bandung on May 3.

The university’s outdoors group, Mahitala said in a press release both women’s acclimatizing process started from the Everest Base Camp on April 26, where the team traveled to the intermediate camp at the height of 5,800 meters above sea-level that took about seven hours to cover.

The team decided to stay the night once they arrived at the location and continued their journey to the advanced base camp (ABC) located at 6,400 meters above sea-level where they stayed for three nights up to April 30. Their journey to ABC also took about seven hours to complete through a hiking route that crosses Morain ice riverThey had to sleep with oxygen masks during their stay at the ABC since oxygen is greatly reduced at that height. Their hike on May 1 took them to the North Col (7,020 meters above sea-level).

From the six tallest mountain in the world they hiked, North Col’s position places them far above the other locations they have ever conquered. The closest location to settle at North Col is Camp 1 located at the height of 7,030 meters above sea-level under a freezing condition of -19 degree Celsius with strong winds and snowstorms.

Their latest step towards acclimatization is by traveling to the height of 7,400 meters above sea-level, which is half the travel distance to Camp 2. However, the group must descend to EverestBase Camp each time they reach a certain height to maximize their acclimatization process.

Rope Discord Mingma G. Sherpa, who has made a name for himself the last couple of years with multiple 8000 meter summits in the same season and pushing in difficult weather is now critiquing the efforts of the rope fixing team run by Prestige Adventures and Maddison Mountaineering:

Our Everest team finished acclimatization, went to Kathmandu for rest and back to base camp already and waiting in Base Camp for Summit way to be fixed. There are 4 person allocated for route fixing but it looks like we need to wait. I believe if 4 person continuously work just for route fixing then it shouldn’t take that much time as it is taking now. We don’t know what is going on inside? We understand 5-11 May is not a good weather but till now all route fixing ropes and oxygen should be in south col which is not yet clear. Expedition Operators Association Nepal (EOA) talks lot in Kathmandu but no any investigation on mountain so the reason there is no any proper management and delay in Rope fixing to Summit as a result we are missing the good days to Summit. Next year, We will take Rope fixing responsibility and see how long it takes in reality.

R533

Lots of smiles in the 10th picture of that series. Even Princess Anne.

^^ Sorry, wrong thread.

Thanks for the link, R390. He's hot.

R397, And O'Dowd's excuse for the team leader not convincing the guy to turn back when they ran into him post-turn-around time on the South Summit was, well, he's an adult and can make his own choices--shrug. So, you're not supposed to summit later than 1 p.m. on Everest and the guy gets there by himself at 5 p.m. because nobody cared enough to stop him. Ugh. You look at that final picture and I think it's pretty clear that the guy just did not get the gravity of his situation. Between his naivete and hypoxia-fried brain, decision-making skills were kaput.

It doesn't seem to have occurred to O'Dowd that hers and Somerhaller's lack of response probably made the guy think it was okay to go ahead.

You can tell if you're going to have problems with altitude. Most of us have been up smaller mountains and if you're feeling breathless and headachey at 3000 metres, even Everest Base Camp is going to be unpleasant. If you're the type who ever feels faint on hot crowded trains, your 02 saturation rate won't cope with high altitude.

Well, that would be me, R404, but I thought sometimes altitude sickness developed among people unexpectedly--they'd managed high altitudes before, but then became ill at another point.

There's a big difference between everyday altitude sickness, R405, and altitude-related cereberal edema or pulmonary edema. Some people can't tolerate altitude, they get headaches, shortness of breath, nosebleeds, chest pains, etc., at high altitudes, and such people don't tend to take up mountain climbing. HACE and HAPE on the other hand, strike people who think they can tolerate altitude without any warning, and they frequently do when it's not possible to get down to a tolerable altitude fast enough to survive.

HACE and HAPE are probably going to kill a few Everest-climbing dentists every year.

Oh I thought about it, miss, but I had problems of my own.

Cathy O'Dowd is a hoe. She fucked the expedition leader Ian so she'd be chosen for Everest, despite the other candidate having more mountaineering experience.

I read that because Everest offers that little bit extra time in the Dead Zone, even people who've successfully summited other 8000 peaks can get spazzed by hape or hace out of nowhere. And then they end up like a big slab of freeze dried beef, stuck to the mountain until the Chinese come along and prise them off.

O'Dowd also encountered Francis Arsentiev already half dead.

O'Dowd wrote a piece about finding Fran for the Guardian called Don't Leave Me Here to Die. The piece was included in a GCSE anthology for ten years.

So, this is all well and good (rehashing 1996)....and I love this thread every year.......but WHEN are the loons expected to summit this year??

r411 May 11th.

R410 .....'but her pleas fell on deaf ears, as I smiled my way down the mountain"

R411 / r412 no, everyone isn't going to all summit on May 11. May 11 is the day the weather is expected to clear up. If you read my update above in r399, there is a delay in fixing the ropes.

That's the problem with rehashing things that has been rehashed to death in three threads now. The real purpose of this thread, 2018, gets lost.

I’m partly responsible for derailing this thread posting about previous expeditions. I misunderstood the purpose of this thread, which I thought was our annual discussion of all things Everest, not just the current years climb. Sorry about that!

As to 2018,I’ve been following Alan Arnette’s blog. All is quiet, waiting on the weather to clear to put up the ropes. Are there other 2018 blogs people recommend?

Discussing 1996 gives newbies insight about what an odd endeavour climbing Everest has become.

When we first started talking about Everest, it was mostly to swap photos of the dead bodies up there.

So what's the status of the Hillary Step? Is any part of it still there and is it going to be easier or harder to summit?

R416, then how about starting a companion thread. Because for those of us who aren't newbies, we're reading the same discussions, same book recommendations, same blog recommendations, same movie recommendations year-after-year. To the point that it seems to have driven off the people who were experts and posted in these threads.

From what I've read, r417, is that the Hillary Step is mostly gone despite what the Nepalese government is saying. climbers confirmed last year is that the big boulder is missing and that it is an easier climb because essentially it is just walking through snow while on a fixed line now.

I think the '96 Everest disaster still gets mentioned because it was such an incredibly tragic story. So many mistakes were made by the team leaders, the drama of survival under dire circumstances.

Not surprising that this story is used as a bad example in leadership seminars.

Plus Into Thin Air is on syllabuses in various schools and colleges. Most people have read it and want to discuss it. It even made it onto a GCSE spec in the UK. Private schoolboys are fascinated and the question the board sets is always the same: 'how do you apportion blame for the 1996 Everest disaster'?

I've been part of the 1996 discussions this year, but I promise to stop when this year's gang of egotistical fools gets going up the mountain. .

But meanwhile, I'm a fan of Cathy O'Dowd here.

Exactly r422, we kinda just talk about it to kill time between action. Next week I hope something happens.

more bodies left in the ice?

I love the morbid queen R424 who is obsessed with the frozen bodies. He'll be praying for plenty of deaths this year at the high camps.

So, the disappearance of the Hillary step should make the Everest climb safer in a couple of ways, right? There's the not actually having to climb, but also, probably more importantly, it should reduce the bottleneck--because people were going up one at a time, right? And that created a ton of delays and dangerously lengthened the whole thing.

Or does this not affect the bottleneck?

Nepal continues to deny the step is gone.

Here is a 'before' and 'after' picture of the Hillary Step.

That definitely looks like the rocks of the step have shifted somewhat--that's not just more snow. Rock 1 has slid a bit away from Rock 2, though they're still connected. Rock 3 has come down a bit, but is still there. It seems though, maybe, now that there's more of a path between/around, though the different angles in the photo make it hard to tell.

But waits of 1 to 4 hours? That's insane.

I does look a bit like the Hillary Step has collapsed and some of the boulders have slipped downwards.

The slab at the bottom of the step seems gone and the small boulders in between the bigger ones also are missing now.

Thank you, R428! The pictures really do make it look like the lower rocks have shifted, which probably means they're less stable now. Will the rocks stay put if hundreds of climbers put weight on them? Is anything being held in place by snow and ice? Has anyone been up that high to check the condition of the rocks? Will any of the for-profit guides call off summit attempts if the rocks are unstable?

I'm staying tuned!

That's a good question R431, I don't think Nepal sends a structural engineer up there to check the stability of what's left of the Hillary Step. Once you accept the risk of going through the Khumbu Icefall, where seracs can collapse any minute, you accept all the risks.

It's all a bit of a gamble and most climbers willingly flirt with death anyway.

Neal Beidleman is still alive? Good for him.

r432 they would send Sherpa up at least, considering that it's a huge moneymaker for the Nepalese government and the Sherpa themselves. I believe this is the kind of problem that Russell Brice and the larger operations would address and co-ordinate, i.e. they'd use their companies' Sherpa to go and report back.

A clean break is one thing, but 'crumbling' is another. There's no way anyone would send clients up there without a good look.

You need a Sherpa who is also a geologist to check if the step is safe to climb. The step could be stable for the first few years and then collapse. Even geologists can only make estimates on when the step will collapse further. And that estimate could be within a 10, 20 or even 50 year range.

Nepal has frequent earthquakes, every 5, 10 to 50 years the earth is shaking in that region. Everest moves up constantly (about 4mm a year) due to the tectonics of India still pushing further into the Asian continent.

r435 or one with a GoPro.

From what it looks now, the climbers can ascent on the side of the Hillary Step without climbing the actual rock.

The expedition group Alpenglow mentioned above---their clients spend less time acclimatising on Everest---have their clients climbing nearby peak Cho Oyu in heavy winds to keep their fitness up. See Alan Arnette's 2018 Expedition blog.

The charity climbs always make me laugh.

They spend $150,000 to summit and celebrate raising $2,500 for their cause.

Yeah R439, the charity banner can be an excuse to raise money for their own expedition. Some climbers are absolutely in earnest about their causes though, and consistently manage to do both.

SO has anyone died yet?

Climb K2 for $58,500

Does Grindr work at Base Camp?

r441 No, they don't usually have casualties until summit day.

Shall we have a bet on how many deaths there will be this year?

I'm betting on four.

[quote]No, they don't usually have casualties until summit day.

Ueli Steck died last year before the actual climbing season began. He fell 1000 m down the Nuptse face into the Western Cwm.

The glacier is a godsend, really.

I have no doubt there would be 500% more people attempting to summit per season without it.

r446 I actually don't think there will be any this year, it seems like they have actually pinpointed problem areas and may fix them. I'll be watching them on summit day though!

I thought they climb over the Icefall during the night only.

Pinpointing problems won't stop global warming--and the increased instability of the ice.

That did make me chuckle R442 What on earth was she thinking?

Well R449 the only time there has been no deaths on Everest has been the years when there were no expeditions, although that is off the top of my head. But this could be the year of zero deaths. Every year I hope it is.

Very unlikely though.

There seems to be a lull in proceedings.

Bad weather.

Usually there's already been a death by now, some spaz falling sick at a high camp and dropping dead or someone at BC even.

So, anyone else think that some of the Sherpas are pretty good looking? I was sort of expecting small and wizened from the massive sun exposure at that altitude, but some of the ones interviewed about 1996 were younger looking and more attractive than I expected. Tenzeng Norgay, for that matter, had great teeth and a smile before he turned into a depressed drunk.

There's one British documentary that's kind of harsh on Hillary (talks about him taking a piss on the top of Everest), but, usually, he comes off as pretty chill--modest, actually doing something for the sherpas long-term. The British documentary was a little suspect, anyway, because it has some old Brit taking credit for sending up Hillary and Norgay because the British Empire wanted to show how inclusive it was, when the truth is that the expedition sent up a pair of British climbers first. Hillary and Norgay were the alternates and went up only after the first pair failed.

Tensing never really became close with Hillary, he always wished he had reached the summit the previous year with the Swizz.

There was a huge controversy after they reached the summit in May '53 about who got to the summit first. Maybe this tore them apart because they became the victim of political gameplay that pitched them against each other.

Tensing unfortunately never benefited or capitalized on his fame.

Average Sherpa height is 5ft 5 for a man, they all smoke, have terrible teeth and are functional alcoholics.

So no, not hot.

It's the 11th there now -- how's the weather?

A solo Bulgarian is missing

I would say that being a "functional alcoholic" on Everest.....makes you about 1000x more "functional alcoholic" than anywhere else on the planet?

Yeah, I was listening about the controversy. Hillary and Norgay kept quiet about who reached the summit for a long time--and both sides were pretty bad about denigrating the other climber. Finally came out that it was Hillary, which doesn't surprise me--he was the new factor. Tenzing had been on Everest a lot, but not summited. It's also true that they deserve equal credit, since they were literally roped together through much of the climb.

R459, I must have just seen pix of the only good-looking Sherpas, then, though I assume they were short. The best climbers I've known were kind of compact and wiry. Tall enough to be able to reach for holds, small enough that they can easily support their own weight with their arms.

Any sign of the missing Bulgarian?

Also--they manage to smoke and still climb at those altitudes? Damn.

The Bulgarian is not on Everest but a nearby peak. The weather is still very windy over the whole region. There are helicoptors from China looking for him but it's been a few days since he was last seen.

How dare Sir Edmund Hillary take a piss on the summit of Everest. There's a lovely restroom there, with attendant.

The Sherpas are born and raised at altitude so Base Camp and Camps 2-3 are nothing to them.

Sherpas don't live that high R467

Camp 2 is at 6400 m / 21000 ft

Camp 3 on the Lhotse wall is at 6800m - 8000 m / 22300 ft - 26300 ft depending how high they put up the tents.

I don't think Sherpa villages are higher than Base Camp which is at 5200 m / 17,600 ft.

Lukla is at 2845 m / 9334 ft and this is where the Base Camp track begins.

So a big thunder and lightning storm, dangerous high winds, everyone waiting in place but poised to make the final dash soon.

I wouldn't mind taking my mountaineering gear off for this sherpa:

Have gays summitted? Or is this a straight thing?

I mean, besides Mallory.

A few years ago a gay guy was in the running r471, I want to say he was on Anderson too, I don't know if he made it, I'm sure many have though.

I'm sure there have been many over the years, but none that we know of.

Sherpas have that high-altitude genetic adaptation, so take in more oxygen when they breathe, more hemoglobin--the Tibetan plateau is around 13,000-14,000 feet. Nobody lives permanently above 17,000. You get above 8,000 feet and you start to see genetic adaptations among the indigenous populations (i.e. Peruvians, Tibetans, Ethiopians)

So any news? Have these hoes summited? Any dead bodies in the ice?

I lived in La Paz, Bolivia for a while. I think that city is at around 11,000 feet. I definitely had altitude sickness when I first got there.

R475 nothing exciting yet, high winds have been a limiting factor so teams are waiting for better weather.

While we wait, anyone want to talk about Ueli Steck's death last year?

R476, I was looking into visiting La Paz and Cuzco--and altitude sickness was mentioned as a possibility at both. Did you have the tea with coca leaves in it to stave it off?

R478

I was in La Paz as well. I just chew Coca leaves. Never tried tea. It was ok.

r477 Sure, how'd he die? Not on Everest, right?

R477

This guy had a death wish. I am talking about Steck.

He fell. No one really knows why though. Was he on Lhotse? He thought to be an expert among experts, so it proves that the line between life and death is wafer thin in some climbing situations. One wrong move...although no one is certain Steck made a wrong move.

So Ueli didn't fall on Everest, but he fell so damn far that he ended up between camps one and two--3,000 feet past a couple of different expeditions. Climbing alone, apparently on impulse--sounds like he was a little too sure of himself, but it only take a slight lapse of concentration to go flying.

I imagine for someone like Steck there's really no other way to go. I doubt someone like that would want to live to be 83 and infirm.

Steck fell 1000 m on a training climb on Nuptse. They had to collect his body parts in the Western Cwm and fly them down to Kathmandu for a burial.

Ueli's trademark was climbing fast on his own without using many aids or attaching himself to a rope. He was on Nuptse alone, practically strolling up a difficult stretch, no rope of course, and he slipped and fell 1000 ft. It was a case of over confidence, of pride literally coming before a tragic fall.

Ropes are fixed to the summit now. This team Madison Mountaineering is the team Ben Fogle and Kenton Cool are with. I have been reading the updates and it looks like he will summit in the next few days, tomorrow even if the weather is good. He looks to be in camp 3 at the moment, moving to camp 4 (that's me reading between the lines, and looking at the team progress chart on Alan Arnette's blog.) Bens Instagram has gone very quiet.

So the jet stream has finally moved north of Everest and the summit is safe to ascend. There might already have been a summit as they're many hours ahead of the US/UK.

Expect the first death to be announced tomorrow.

[quote]“We have the first foreigner summits of the #Everest2018 spring season by Steve Plain, John Gupta with Pemba Sherpa. “

Does that mean I he first “actual” summiteers are the nameless sherpas who fix the ropes and ladders?

Yeah, the tradition is that the first summits eacg season are made by sherpas after they fix the ropes.

[quote]Make that 37 summits from Nepal side Monday morning, 14 May. Rope team is within 2 hours on the Tibet side.

[quote]including Mike Plain, breaking 7 Summits time record and Chinese double amputee Xia Boyu proving there is no "disability"

I respect your work, but shut up, Alan 🙄

What's the verdict on Steck's claim that he climbed Annapurna?

That Chinese guy lost his legs on Everest? Jesus, what a maroon. I bet the sherpas were very invested in getting him up there so he'd fucking stop already.

So all seems to be going to plan. As Scott Fischer said "it's a yak route. We have the Big E totally mapped out." More true now than in 1996.

Mark Ingles was a double amputee and he summited in 2006, the same year David Sharp died. Ingles and his teammates found Sharp on their way to the summit, half conscious and half frozen sitting next to Green Boots, but couldn't/didn't help him and also didn't alert or call base camp about Sharp.

Another team saw Sharp on the way down and they tried to revive him with oxygen and tried to get him up and walking, but he was too far gone then.

Ingles on his stumps and artificial legs wasn't able to walk anymore on the way down and a Sherpa carried him on his back all the way to camp 6.

It was one of the coldest days on Everest and Ingels suffered further frost bites on his stumps and consequently had to have further amputations.

Just a week later Lincoln Hall survived a night on Everest without oxygen after he fell unconscious and his Sherpas abandoned him because they thought he was dead. He was rescued the next morning by a group of American climbers who saw him sitting on the edge of the Kangshung face, hallucinating with no gloves on and his down suit open.

Just a quick PSA for our amputee climbers, please keep your stumps lubricated and covered at all times while ascending Mt. Everest. We don’t want your stumps getting stumpier from frostbite.

I thought they had banned amputees 'climbing' Everest, how did the Chinese one get to go up?

Presumably from the Chinese side, so the Nepalese ban wouldn't apply . . . but I'm just speculating.

So, how much of Lincoln Hall was left after his overnight on Everest?

Mindless cheer leading from The NYT

R498 Special permission - "He received a climbing permit two months ago after Nepal’s Supreme Court issued an interim order that allowed double amputee climbers to try for Everest’s summit. Last year Nepal had tried to limit double amputees from climbing the mountain."

What happens to the old ropes from previous years? I know there's a lot of old rope left in tangles, but 30+ years' worth?

[quote]So, how much of Lincoln Hall was left after his overnight on Everest?

He lost all fingertips, but other than that he was fine. I wasn't as cold that night.

And now is when the casualties may happen. It's getting down that's the hard part.

Unbelievable that no-one has died yet! This might be the first year without any deaths. If that happens, everyone who's ever wanted to go but been deterred by the death rate will convene there in 2019.

The Chinese doable amputee climbed from the Nepalese side.

I don't think he's still doable r504 but I'll let you all decide.

That's wrong, R495, Ingles tried to help David Sharp, and I'm pretty sure called down to Russell Brice, the man in charge. Another climber from Russell Brice's team, a Lebanese man, stayed with Sharp for an hour or so on his descent and gave him oxygen. He was disconsolate at not being able to save Sharp.

There were others who helped too. The whole David Sharp abandoned by all meme turned out to be just that.

I have never been to Everest itself but I have been close, and at very high altitude; I don't blame people in the Death Zone who won't help, because they take a huge risk of dying too, and those ledges are so narrow that the chances of successfully bringing down someone who can't move on their own without dying yourself is almost nil.

The climbers know the risks and many of the ones who end up needing help, like David Sharp, come unprepared; it's not up to other climbers, especially the Sherpas, to risk their lives for fools.

And the other double amputee, Engles, shouldn't have been up there either IMO. What the hell was he thinking?

I hate these fuckers who risk Sherpa lives for their own fantasy (which would be all of them, actually)

In honor of this thread, today I ate two hard boiled eggs and put Himalania salt on them.

R507 Ingils did nothing to help Sharp and lied about calling down to the camp asking for help for Sharp, no such call was ever logged, he is a liar

Don't pity the Sherpas, those hoes are very happy with their Everest guiding wages and the way their lives are enriched.

News just coming in of an avalanche which has impacted Camp 3! Death toll is at ten and rising.

I thought it all seemed too calm.

Link R510?

r508 But why should he have to help Sharp? these people know that when they are in the death zone it's every man for himself. People don't have time to stop and fuss over fallen climbers, it's Everest, not a feelings factory!

Avalanche at Camp 3? No way.

They could have called Base Camp about a sick climber in Green Boots cave, Sharp was still alive at that time and maybe could have been helped.

Do you know how long it would take someone at base camp to get to him? Like was said in the 96 disaster, you may as well be on the moon.

Where is the link to the Camp 3 avalanche?

High altitude didn't screw with me, I was actually fine, no idea why, but there were people in my party who couldn't function and we were about 10,000 ft lower than the summit. I can only imagine how reduced climbers faculties are when they are in the Death Zone, so I believe that if you can help, then you should, but at a certain point, it's going to be one person dying or many people dying, and again, many of the people who get into trouble are unprepared or unable to admit their own limitations.

And I hate that lives are risked to recover bodies., especially Sherpa lives. Climbers should have to sign a pact that their body stays where or near to where they died.

I've checked all the usual sources and I don't see anything about an avalanche this year.

I'm a sea-level kind of guy.

R510 Don't post BC stories unless you have a link

R512 I think it was more his lying after and saying he had contacted camp when he had done nothing of the sort. Hiliary found the behaviour tacky, yet he pissed at the summit so many people seemingly have different views of climbing etiquette when people are dying at your feet

Yep, the fact that they lied about contacting Russel Brice about a stricken climber when in fact they just saw him, stopped for a second and continued with their ascent. Maybe it was too late for David Sharp at that point, maybe even if they had tried to help him, Sharp would have died anyway because he couldn't walk anymore and at that altitude nobody can carry an immobile climber down to a lower camp.

But they did nothing and they made up the whole story about calling BC. The whole team seemed like some creepy assholes anyway.

Mountaineers are strange people. Somehow, the Sherpas are okay, but the others....I've watched enough climbing documentaries to note that they seem to be "not all there" and they make some strange justifications for what amounts to selfish or odd behaviour. Is it the hypoxia scrambling their brains, or what?

[quote]What happens to the old ropes from previous years? I know there's a lot of old rope left in tangles, but 30+ years' worth?

Good question.

IMHO R510 is trolling, because he's read the same posts I did - the ones eagerly anticipating the first deaths.

Well played, R510!

R521 Exactly it was the lying. R522 On the last thread someone posted research on the mentality of mountain climbers, remember the reasons seemed random, like getting away from the wife and kiddies, they do seem to get some real weird wunderlust come over them

R510 is a little shit and by extension so are you R524. Not well-played at all. Just stupid.

What's the matter, R526, angry that there aren't really mass deaths on Everest after all?

Well, not yet anyway.

yes r527! Of course we are angry there aren't any deaths, why else would we care about this idiotic practice? I had a feeling there wouldn't be though so I am not surprised.

Damn, I saw R510 and got all excited, hoping we'd get pics of freeze dried corpses but I think it was the Spaz Troll on the thread.

This could be a death free year among the summiteers.

I’m trying to feel positive about that,

They leave the ropes, which end up covered by snow and ice. The UV radiation and elements weakens them.

Nobody died this year. But the coming years should be promising.

'As prices come down, risks go up for Everest trophy hunters.'

It's not over yet.

A Chinese guy from Hong Kong has died of Hace at Base Camp.

Lots of successful summits but a Sherpa has been missing since 14 May, which doesn't sound good.

A Sherpa has died while over 140 people summited Everest on Wednesday morning, May 16. But a series of oxygen system failures stopped at least one team. Look for another day of summits on Thursday as May 17 was the date many teams had target last weekend as the winds calmed. Last night was clear, winds were not an issue and about the usual temperature -4F/ -20F. Here’s the recap. Sherpa Death Lam Babu Sherpa from Kurima Solukhambu died on May 15. Details are unclear but he is said to had snow blindness.

Ooh another summit bid tomorrow? Maybe now we will get our deaths!

^ Two deaths were mentioned just before your comment. PAY ATTENTION.

That's a sherpa r537, I'm talking about an asshole climber death.

Was the sherpa with snowblindness the sherpa who was mentioned as missing earlier?

The base camp death sounds like a climber.

"Climber" doesn't seem to be the correct term for someone who pays big bucks to be shepherded and pampered all the way up and down Everest.

"Tourist" seems more apt, the only climbers there are the Sherpas and the guides.

nothing but respect for the Sherpas.

They are the ones traipsing up and down the mountain fixing ladders and ropes so stupid white people can pretend they "climbed"

Bad news although it will please some ghouls on here.

A serac the size of a 3 story house broke off and collapsed on a party of eight who were making their way through the Khumbu Icefall. No survivors and the bodies are buried deep under the ice.

Alan Arnette has the decency to list all the Sherpas with their names, who assist climbers to the summit.

KATHMANDU, Nepal -- A veteran Sherpa guide scaled Mount Everest on Wednesday for the 22nd time, setting a record for the most climbs of the world's highest mountain, and a female Sherpa made it to the summit for the ninth time, breaking her own record for the most climbs by a woman.

Kami Rita reached the summit on Wednesday morning with a team of foreign climbers and a fellow Sherpa guide and was already safely descending to a lower camp by the afternoon, said Gyanendra Shrestha, a government official stationed at the base camp.

Kami Rita, 48, was among three men -- all Nepalese Sherpa guides -- who had tied the previous record of 21 successful ascents of the 29,035-foot peak.

It was such a great thread, but this sitting around waiting for more deaths is just annoying.

Three more died today after higher than normal temperatures caused another serac to topple.

Also a death at the summit from HAPE. He has been left there as a marker for generations to come.

R541, hardly just white people--lots of rich Indians and East Asians paying sherpas to help them up.

Here's a piece on the guy from Hong Kong who died at base camp. He wasn't even trying to climb Everest. His group was planning to climb a smaller peak--Kalapather at 5,500 meters. He was in his 40s--just not made for high altitudes, poor guy.

Can you all post links please?

that ice fall is always treacherous.

Thanks for the Sherpa info. Very interesting.

R546 link please

R546 being a little shit again. No link necessary for that.

The summit picture at R543 blows my mind. Just the sheer amount of people there. I would really hate being stuck in a big crowd like that, especially on the summit.

Ben Fogle summited a few days ago, carrot and panda firmly in hand. He took nice clear pictures with no crowds, but mentioned that the Sherpa's weren't in the picture for a very compelling reason (or words to that effect) and that we would find out why soon. I think he may have been one of the teams that had a problem with their oxygen regulators. I read that a lot of people suddenly lost their oxygen and the Sherpa's gave up their supplies. Fogle also manages a video from the summit, without breathing apparatus, and in a fetching hat, instead of having his whole body and head wrapped up like a 1970's boiler tank.

Iv'e found a post where he goes into more details about the oxygen situation. Sounds quite epic. This was all being filmed so should be very interesting to watch. Can't wait.

* I've - not sure what happened there!

[quote][R507] Ingils did nothing to help Sharp and lied about calling down to the camp asking for help for Sharp, no such call was ever logged, he is a liar

Well, that's super-fascinating, but I made a joke about Himalania salt.

25k? Oh my sides!

I know they make decent money (for Tibetans) but for the life of me, I don't understand why they put themselves in harm's way for selfish jerks in R552 and R553 links. They take the last of the oxygen so they can keep summiting?

I know r557! I am surprised that that guy admitted to that in his summit pic.

Shows the narcissism of these tools that they'd take the Sherpas' oxygen (and I'm thinking a guide too because there was a Western name on that list) and leave them in danger in order to summit, R557 R558.

I've met a few. One, an American who summited Everest from the Tibet side, was the kind of bouncy, happy, outdoors guy who'd work at an REI.

The other, who had a failed attempt of K2 ( a much more dangerous and technical climb) was scary. Like there was a dark cloud hovering around him. But K2 is kind of like Everest was back in the 1930s in terms of risk, so it probably takes that kind to even attempt it.

I think the truly courageous aren't the ones attempting Everest with oodles of bottled oxygen and Sherpas doing all the work, it's mountains like K2, Nanga Parbat and that other one the man died on a few months ago, while his female partner was saved after she abandoned him.

I think for Sherpas it's a pride thing. That's why they do all the rope fixing and establishing a route through the Khumbu icefall, placing the ladders over crevasses and such.

That's why there was a fight a few years ago with Simone Moro and Ueli Steck (I think). They wanted to climb alpine stile and were ahead of the Sherpas who didn't like that somebody else than them was first on the mountain.

*style

r560 that had nothing to do with the fight.

Fixing ropes is dangerous and it requires concentration and as safe an environment as possible, even for experienced Sherpa mountaineers. It's an unwritten rule that they are given space when doing it. That year, it was even agreed to by the larger company leaders (who generally set the rules at BC each season) that no one would climb above them.

Of course, they-- Steck in particular--think they can do whatever the fuck they want and screw the natives. They had a confrontation, with the Sherpas claiming the two went right above them and caused a snowfall. The two at first denied it entirely then backtracked.

The disrespect was there regardless of the exact details, and that's part of what set the Sherpa off, because they were already upset about working conditions.

Steck and Moro weren't part of an expedition and they wanted to climb alpine style, which means they don't need somebody fixing the ropes for them in advance.

I don't think it's up to the Sherpas to say how people should climb Everest. No doubt the Sherpas are doing great work and they don't always get the credit they deserve, but it shouldn't be like people are only allowed to climb Everest on the Sherpa's terms.

Moro and Steck, maybe they behaved in a disrespectful way, maybe they even behaved like dicks. But this is no reason to throw rocks at them and threaten them the way they were.

If you climb alpine you are just quicker than others, but climbing alpine also means you are less dependent on all the stupid commercialization that makes Everest such an awful place these days. There should be a place for this as well and the Sherpas should accept that.

r563 if they are doing the work that makes the route climbable for the 99.5% , then they damn well do get to be pissed off if Western climbers not only make their jobs harder, but actually endanger their lives. They don't decide, the major team leaders do in meetings amongst their groups, including the sirdars and senior Sherpa. If they decide for all permitted climbers on the mountain, including the Alpinists, then that should be honoured. Plus, the Sherpa are saving lives by doing their jobs right, and if they make reasonable requests for work conditions, they should have priority over a couple of adrenaline junkie pricks.

The rock incident happened further down the mountain because the Sherpa had been angry about working conditions for some time. I agree it was wrong, but it was another reason they should have been more careful about how they climbed around the Sherpa. As Alpinists, they are much quicker and more skilled, so it's nothing to the them to just wait for the ropes to be fixed.

I hate the term "white privilege" and I think it's over-used, but it seems to apply here--maybe Western privilege would be a better term.

It's still no reason to throw rocks at Moro and Steck. Somebody filmed the brawl at camp 2, I think it's still on youtube and it looked really nasty. The Sherpas overreacted.

I've been to Nepal a few times and Tibet once. The way tourists treat the natives is appalling. I'm sure that the rock throwing wasn't just about the incident, but about years of being treated like little more than pack animals by Westerners, who might pay more for the climb than many Nepali might make in a lifetime.

The Westerners get to go home to their life of luxury, and come back if they choose, but the Sherpa have to do the same insanely difficult, insanely dangerous slog, year after year and put up with the nonstop slights and insults, both to themselves and to their sacred mountains. They also get a glimpse into a Western life that they will never lead, and after a while it leads to resentment. I do not blame the Sherpa.

R563, if the Sherpas are the only people there who are concerned for anyone's safety, then yes, they SHOULD be the ones who say how everyone gets to climb Everest! The local governments are only concerned with making money, same for the guiding companies, which leaves the Sherpas as the only people who are taking any pains to keep themselves safe, and are absolutely the only ones who have any concern for their own safety. All the government officials, guides, and summiting tourists take it for granted that Sherpas will die every year, which sure as hell gives the Sherpas every moral and legal right to stand up for safety.

They're great climbers, infinitely better than their clients, and they're still treated like conveniences rather than human beings - donkeys or ATVs rather than the best climbers on the mountains. For all their skill, the rich fuckers who come there still feel free to take their oxygen or send avalanches down on them, they need to put a stop to that shit if nobody else will.

If climbers want to go up Alpine style without guides and using their own ropes, they should be allowed to it, why the fuck not?

The Sherpas are materialistic mercenary characters who want to keep climbers compliant and dependent. They're not the only ones on the mountain capable of setting ropes and ladders, or of climbing high and fast without oxygen.

I think this is a really sad story about how Sherpas can suffer because of a clients stupidity. The Sherpa was only 19 years old. His client refused to turn back in bad weather and ended up dead. The Sherpa very nearly died himself as a lot of people were passing him on the way to summit and no one stopped until other Sherpas recognised him and rescued him, he lost all his fingers.

As for Ben Fogle I think was saying he tried to share the oxygen with his Sherpa, but the Sherpa would not accept it (I may be wrong as I've been reading so many accounts of oxygen problems that they've all blurred into one... someone tried to share with their Sherpa).

r568 Um, actually, they are the only ones capable, or the fucking Yanks would do it themselves, are you kidding? There's a couple Russian climbers who can do it too, I can't think of anyone else though.

r568 = Beck Weathers, typing with his nubs

R568 Let us know when you summit.

R568, they're not the only ones capable at all. The fast Western guides can all do it too, certainly top climbers like Ueli can do it.

Ueli the dead guy? yeah, let's go with him.

During the first ascent of Everest the Brits did all the rope fixing in the Khumbu Icefall. And in 96 Anatoli Boucreev and Neal Beidleman did it because Lopsang was dragging Sandy Pittman up the mountain.

I think it's a matter of pride for the Sherpas to be the first on the mountain each season by making sure the clients have secured ropes to climb with.

Steck and Moro didn't use ropes on the Lhotse wall, they climbed it freestyle. However they had to traverse the ropes the Sherpas were fixing and that's where the trouble started.

R569 the link says he is 21 and the client was also rescued. In fact, the client had a newspaper article published about his success, without mentioning his Sherpa or what happened to him.

The Sherpas are like little Hitlers of the mountain, refusing to let anyone set ropes. They work for one month of the year and then laze around the rest of the time.

That' strange R569 unless I'm completely losing the plot (which is definitely possible) I'm sure I read that story with different details. That the guy was 19 and that his client died. I felt very upset because of such a young age to lose fingers. I will try to find that actual link. - Wow, I am shocked that the newspaper would go that far to publish an article like that without even mentioning the Sherpa. Glad he's being helped.

Ah yes, I found it. The article I mentioned in R578 is actually the gofundme page for the Sherpa. Yes the client did survive, I see that now. Very close call for them both. This one says that the Sherpa, Sange, was 19 " this was his first year as a guide to the summit of Everest all at the age of 19. " Just seems such a shitty thing to happen on your first year as a guide too. Poor guy.

[quote] Kami Rita reached the summit on Wednesday morning with a team of foreign climbers and a fellow Sherpa guide and was already safely descending to a lower camp by the afternoon, said Gyanendra Shrestha, a government official stationed at the base camp. Kami Rita, 48, was among three men -- all Nepalese Sherpa guides -- who had tied the previous record of 21 successful ascents of the 29,035-foot peak.

THIS is how these climbing expeditions should be reported. But then fewer paying customers would be interested. So much if this is narcissism and pure ego.

The western guides can and have fixed ropes but the Sherpas get paid extra for doing it so they make damn sure they do it. These top climbing Sherpas have huge families at a young age and plenty of girlfriends on the side. They work for one month of the year and sit around getting drunk for the rest of it.

R581 What a cock

News from Nepal - Camp 4 has been destroyed by an avalanche. Around 20 people are reported dead with many more injured. They can't be removed from that high up so will have to stay there trapped in the ice.

Enough with the trolling, R583.

Meanwhile, Sherpa shortage:

Catching up after a week away....500 summits, a long clear window, 10 out of 39 regulators failing on one team in the space of three hours possibly due to weather conditions, the Hillary step is now definitely a slope but the Nepali government has ordered team leaders not to talk about it. However I guess it will lead to more summits since it was a bottleneck before.

That woman climber on another peak going snow blind and having to get down to a lower latitude that a helicopter could reach. Rappelling blind, yeah okay for some.

So 500 summitted but only 2 died, what the actual fuck? I'm not happy at all. Even though their O2 failed, those hoes still lived?

So how do people go snow blind? Is it related to hypoxia or blood flow.?

I think it from the sun reflection from the snow which is a lot harsher on high elevations. The thin air and cold temperatures also contribute to weaken the thin blood vessels in they eyes.

Force 8.1 earthquake. All the camps have been destroyed by massive serac collapses, every climber is dead and stuck in the ice, on the route. So many dead bodies this year, you guys on this thread are living your best life.

R589 shoo.

How come the ones who had oxygen failures didn't die? I don't get it.

You don't have to have oxygen, in fact they were going to make it a rule a few years back that only people who weren't oxygen dependent could climb. Boukreev was one that didn't need oxygen, it helps but not everyone needs it.

r585 the oxygen bottles are a controversy on Everest--there was a theft ring involved in stealing them outright or siphoning them off like gas rats here do with vehicles. Clients of the smaller operators were especially hard hit, IIRC. A couple of articles were written off-season about it in the last few years.

I suspect there will be a quiet investigation into the regulator failures.

r592 I don't think that was ever seriously considered because even fit people who follow all the guides' instructions/climbing rules can still need oxygen. You can't tell how your body will react until you're actually on the way. It wouldn't be fair to the clients who pay their money and take it seriously. Cynically, all the 'pro' climbers are dependent on their clients for their livelihoods, since many are not fit for normal society. They'd rather deal with the oxygen and have a few schlubs up there, than not have a business at all. The governments need the permit money, too, so I doubt it will ever change.

Still just two deaths wtf

This is the dullest year ever.

Why don't you go there next year R594. Throw yourself from the south col down the Kangshung face so we have some things to talk about.

Wasn't there some scandal years back about Henry Todd (who has a team on Everest this year) and used oxygen containers? Maybe it was disproved. IIRC there was some investigation back in 2002 or so re: the death of a young English climber who fell while descending. There was talk his oxygen failed and that is why he fell. So if you need oxygen up high then it is vital the tanks work and the regulators have been a point of weakness before.

Does anyone have a definitive link or info on the collapsed Hillary step please? I would like to see it in 2018. I keep looking and can't find anything that states that it has definitely collapsed. It sure looks like it has from previous pictures. Would love to know for sure.

This video in my link is really the most irritating thing ever. A man with a knee replacement trying to climb Everest. Every so often he starts screaming and a Sherpa has to push his knee back into place :0 Absolutely ridiculous shenanigans!

This guy already summited once, selfish.

Sorry, I misspoke, he never did summit and now he never will.

He loses nine of his fingers but does that dissuade him? NO. He's going to teach the mountain a lesson about the human spirit.