Figure Skating 2018, Pt. X

Link to previous thread for reference.

Let the splatting continue

Beautiful outfit!, Emmi!

I'm late to the party tonight, but did anyone else like the Swiss(from Connecticut) girl's Heidi-esque powder blue dress?

Yes, it was beautiful.

After she skated and I saw another up-close shot, I did think of Heidi!

Especially since she was from Switzerland.

.

Is there at chance that Bradie could make it to the long program tomorrow night?

How cool! Larry Fitzgerald a skating fan.

She is adorable, and she is bringing the Minnie Mouse realness with the white gloves.

AC/DC, baby!!

Hell yes!!!

That's awesome!

Sometimes Johnnie can be a dick! Just because he doesn't like the music...

Nightmare?? Really??

Jerk.

I loved it, and she was adorable.

I'm with Johnny!

Is this chick wearing her "#Me too/it stops here" dress? A tad bland, but I guess it goes with the music.

Has the Russian young lady skated yet; the one who spins with her arms raised about her head, all while performing a Triple Triple Tornado Axel?

Not yet.

don't think so^^^^ Love this costume...seems like something Peggy Fleming would select if she were a 21 year old today.

Yay.. it WAS old school, hence the memories of PF.

OMG, the BEL skater chose The Queen's music! Heaven!

The sight of Lindsey Vonn sniffling her tears back leaves me cold.

Sorry to go off topic, but I'm over the bitch.

When are they switching to NBC?

R20 - Yep. It's now broadcasting there.

Now, R20.

Lindsey Vonn, step away from the Maybelline black mascara wand, now!

There's that beautiful shade of blue again. 😍😍😍

Sakamoto, lovely performance -

Adam Rippon, Shoo, Fly! Leave my damn costume ALONE!

Damn!

Oh, Shit!!!!

Nagasu will achieve Bronze. The Russian skater has yet to skate.

smoky eye much?

Isn't this the Bad News Bears music??

Ha! Suck it, Canadians!

It's Sheena Marie Shay in The Ice Capades!

Damn, again!

The Russians are coming up!!!!!

The Bad News Bears Go To Japan!!

God. Can we please ban anything from Carmen???

. . . and the Gershwins.

Ladies Figure Skating SP is switching channels, again. What channel, please??????

Sorry, false alarm; the Ladies SP is still broadcasting on NBC.

This thread is slower than I thought it would be.

Yeah, R41. I've had to amuse myself for some time now.

Is Ashley Wagner on Twitter being bitchy right now?

I'm watching on the cable channel.

I really dislike these back-loaded programs. Yes, I know they are legal, but it just means the first half is skating around the rink waving arms, and then its one jump after another.

R41 it's been slow because DL has been on prime time.

I really loathe the way these rules have been exploited with the backloaded programs...

...but it's also hard to deny that Zagitova's program is gorgeously executed. I'd rather it had been spread out, but I won't deny her best of the night, either.

So then why don't the other skaters back load their programs??

Is it really that much harder?

I was really disappointed by the lack of commenting tonight.

I was actually starting to enjoy the Canada vs American pissy fights over V/M and the French couple. Maybe the final event will bring out some more participation.

Zagitova's triple Lutz + triple loop combination was breathtaking.

Nice while it lasted!

R48 I made that same comment a few threads back. People say that it's because it takes too much energy. I would argue that they could condition themselves to handle it.

I'm following a Russian FS forum and they're not happy about Medvedeva's overscoring compared to Osmond.

Right? Where'd everybody go?

They're gonna do to Medvedeva what they did to Kwan in 98. They're totally giving it to Alina.

I really don't get why Carolina is supposed to be considered such a great artist. I don't see it.

Backloading is harder in the long programs. They shouldn't give extra points for it in the short program.

Sucks that all these routines are now paint-by-numbers, all choreographed alike because everyone is trying to maximize the points. No passion any more. Just a bunch of robots.

The Americans all really sucked tonight

I've been having problems posting, so maybe other people as well.

But, yeah, I think Alina's getting it--her FS is really point packed.

The Japanese and Russians are winning the night. The Canadians bore me.

Don't you fucking Kwan me!!

R55 except Medvedeva is actually hitting her jumps. As much as I loved Kwan, she sucked in her Olympic appearances

It's inevitable, R61. Get used to it.

Bradie's score definitely hurt by going first. Osmond has yet to skate her FS clean, so possible Japanese bronze.

Mirai techinically didn't do that bad. She probably ended up exactly where she would have even if she had skated clean.

Didn't Kwan hit all her jumps in Nagano?

[quote]Bradie's score definitely hurt by going first.

I thought it hurt because of her fall. How much more would she have scored with that same routine if she had gone 6th?

We should have sent Ashley Wagner. BTW primetime is over if you couldn't tell.

Damnit, now Carolina's in the final group.

R66 yes. So what?

[quote]We should have sent Ashley Wagner.

Ashley wouldn't have done any better than Mirai did.

r71 But you dumbasses told us that Mirai could win bronze? We should have sent Ashley

The high point of the evening for me is still the Swiss chick's Heidi blue dress.

And she is an American, although skating for Switzerland. These women just didn't do it for me after the men. pairs and dancing.

R72 nobody said Mirai was going to win Bronze. She COULD have medaled if she skated cleanly and if 3 of the others fell. Ashley wouldn't have even finished 6th if all of that happened.

Kwan skated a beautiful, lyrical program in Nagano. However, she skated a bit tentatively. Tara skated cleanly with a lot of energy, plus she benefited by skating last.

All three Americans in the second to final group.

I can't believe Zagitova is just 15. She skates with more maturity and presence than all the other women except for Kostner, who's twice as old.

I agree we should have sent Ashley.

R75 and Kwan skated first... and skated like it was a job.

Anyone who thinks Ashley would have done better doesn't know figure skating--Ashley peaked in 2016 and her technique has deteriorated since. She's no longer competitive on jumps.

Re: Tennell. Yes, she fell, but she got credit for the combo--if she'd skated in the same group as Nagasu, Chen, I suspect she'd be in a similar position, but with a higher point total.

Zagitova's style is so frantic, and that costume looks like she's ready to perform in Vegas.

R80 it's the same person agreeing with itself.

If Mirai were to hit her 3A could she possibly get bronze?

Yeah but the latest Bradie was going to skate was 6th.

primetime really killed this thread

Alina looks immature as a skater. Medvedeva is far more polished

R83 only if she lands everything else clean (no UR) and a couple of others fall.

Then again look what happened with Chen. He managed to hang on and almost medal. Mirai doesn't even have as many she needs to pick off. Maybe Tessa can lend her her scissors?

A point was made that Ashley would have skated in the last two groups based on her standing which I think would be good for a least a couple placements higher than tennel assuming Ashley did the same face plant as tennel did.

[quote]Zagitova's style is so frantic, and that costume looks like she's ready to perform in Vegas.

All Russian ladies follow in the steps of Plushenko's windmill arms.

Kwan was so stiff in Nagano. This is not good particularly if you are a skater known and scored for your artistry.

Both Olympics totally spooked Kwan

So why wasn't there prime time all those other nights?

I am so clueless I did not realize it was primetime. I thought all the guys who participated previously just had no interest in ladies' skating.

Daddy Kwan is what fucked with Michelle in SLC.

What is with Zagitova's tutu outfit, I feel like they're trying to hide something there.

I don't find Mirai's skating that graceful.

I also don't care for that tights over the boots look.

Alina flitted around too much while being a swan. It was distract

-Ing

She wears a red one during her long program as well, I think.

I'm glad that tara actually said that Medvedeva was placed second on reputation, I personally think the Russians, while good, are overrated.

R92, prime time strikes at the whim of the Webmaster.

What's Kwan up to now anyway?

She didn't make it as a commentator

Why is Tara Lapinski so botoxed? She can't be that old

Bradie didn't face plant. She did a triple-triple and stumbled at the end of it--so a fall, but not one that voided her having done the combo--unlike Sotskova's sit down.

Since both Nagasu and Chen fell, I think their order would have moved around with a different skate order.

But none of them were going to medal with the top group going mostly clean.

Carolina looks positively matronly after watching so many tiny baby teens tonight. But I do find her very graceful and lovely to watch.

The older skaters always look so out of place because the sport has progressed so far ahead of them.

If Carolina had any competition in Italy she'd retire long ago.

R103 Did she even bother to try to commentate? Listening to her speak in general was painful.

And what is she up to? Well she's no longer married like some of us Olympic Gold Medalists!

R101, I think Tara was wrong.

Medvedeva is so much more interesting to watch than Alina or the Canadian

[quote]So why wasn't there prime time all those other nights?

Because even the powers that be didn't want to miss out on the entertainment of watching the P/C vs V/M meltdowns.

r109 I'm assuming that these athletes have to have some decent communication skills to get the commentating jobs.

Some of us were BORN to speak!

R109, I do recall Kwan doing some commentating a while back but it was for a short time. Maybe for ABC?

Michelle commentated for Fox Sports, but she's always sounded like she's retarded and had no personality, so no surprise she didn't last long.

Damn, when ice dancing generates more heat than Ladies, you know American Ladies have gone to hell.

I think Kwan was home schooled.

BTW I'm glad Alina put that cocky bitch Medvedeva in her place tonight. Med's SP music is garbage, esp. the ending.

OK bottom line Americans suck balls at figure skating yet again. They are spitting on the graves of Dorothy Hamill and Todd Eldgidge.

Hey! Don't forget us!!

On a different note, it was nice seeing Tiffany Chin again. She looked great, and I didn't know that she coaches.

Oh my god, I can finally post!

I think Kwan got her in MA in International Affairs right and worked in gov't for a bit.

[quote]OK bottom line Americans suck balls

Why do you think I won't leave the Olympic Village?

R116 & R119 yeah US ladies is going to shits. FWIW US ladies were 4th, 6th, and 7th after the short in Sochi. Serves the USFS right for hyping those girls, esp. Karen Chen, who choked as always.

There hasn't been an American ladies star since Kwan. And that was a long, long time ago. I can't even name an American champion since Kwan.

I am liking Adam even more every time he speaks to the NBC crew. He has really come across well.

R124 they have to hype what we have for the sake of ratings.

Sure, what we have sucks, but it's what we've got.

[quote]There hasn't been an American ladies star since Kwan. And that was a long, long time ago. I can't even name an American champion since Kwan.

EXCUSE ME? I'm pretty sure you've just got amnesia.

None of these skaters are known by anyone outside of those interested in skating. THAT's how boring the sport has gotten.

Everytime Johnny tries to over pronounce a Russian name I want to punch him in the face. Go back to Russia with your gay propaganda ass

Excuse me?! Rude R125.

The US sucks because USFSA allowed Wagner to stick around for too long. They should have put her to pasture long ago and given real talent some Int'l Experience.

Lapinski and Hughes both got their golds unexpectedly. Instead of continuing to skate and backing up those wins, they immediately retired assuming they'd be able to cash in like gold medal winners before them.

Instead, they were basically forgotten. Lapinski has finally hit her stride commenting. Hughes has disappeared

[quote]None of these skaters are known by anyone outside of those interested in skating. THAT's how boring the sport has gotten.

Thank God for US!!!!

R128 excuse me? Sarah who?

R125, surely you remember my exquisite spiral sequences!

Not exactly, R133. Lipinski was at least a World Champion and a contender for Gold. It wasn't that surprising that she won, especially if one followed what was going on with Michelle's career right before Nagano.

And Lipinski had no choice but to retire.

American Ladies have been struggling for a while, but Gracie Gold, who really did have the skills to compete at the top, imploded and Polina Edmunds, who had the nerves to compete at the top, has an injury that sidelined her. Ashley's gotten old (for a skater), so a weak field is even weaker.

Sarah Hughes went off to Harvard or Yale and I think, maybe, became a doctor?

Poor Sarah Hughes will always have to look at that face in the mirror.

Once again they are giving the Canadians inflated marks. The only reason they're not in the lead now, is because those 2 Russian girls are absolutely EXTRAORDINARY compared to everyone else-- especially the 15 year old!! She skates with the maturity of someone twice her age.

Sasha Cohen had potential. Her constant choking did her no favors. She's works on Wall Street now

M and Z's costumes look so similar it's weird.

r140 Don't worry Osmonds sucks at the long, hopefully a Japanese skater takes bronze.

Is this the traditional artist vs technician match up?

M and V seem to both has it all

^have

Are they any talented US Ladies skaters coming up the ranks?

Sorry ^^M and Z

Carolina will be taking home the bronze, thank you very much.

R146 there's Fing and Fong

If anyone missed Bradie T. They are starting the replay on NBC

The Japanese skater currently in 5th (Sakamora?) reminds me a lot of Kwan, with her ease. Everything seems so light and airy

But Sakamora can jump, right?

*Sakamoto

Yeah, I'm also rooting for a Japan bronze.

R146, There's an amazing junior, Alysa Liu, but she's all of 12, so she can't even go to junior worlds. The big question is whether her skills will survive adolescence. She's from the Bay Area has an Asian gay dad--so she's kind of a distillation of American skating fandom.

Starr Andrews has charisma, but her skills are a bit lacking.

If Polina Edmunds can get her toe jumps back, she'll be in the mix again--particularly as her artistic skills have improved. There are a bunch of younger skaters with talent, but consistency is a continuing issue with them. Amber Glenn, for instance--beautiful skating, but crashes and burns all the time.

Not now, but maybe after the Olympics or around Worlds, we should definitely do a "Gots To B Real" skating thread, like we did with gymnastics (which morphed into three threads). I have a feeling a lot of current and former skaters have a lot of shit to talk about each other.

Between 1952 and 2006, a US lady earned a medal at every Olympics except 1964 (and then a young Peggy Fleming finished 6th). In 2010 and 2014, a US lady finished 4th (Mirai and Gold). This may be the worst Olympic performance for US ladies ever.

Meissner had potential, but she was derailed by injuries, and Gold had potential but got derailed by other things. Unfortunately, there's no real depth right now. I like Mariah Bell, but she's inconsistent. Holding out hope for Starr Andrews.

Is Bradie T exceptionally tall for a skater, or is it some sort of optical illusion? She looks so different from the others.

Yeah, Tennell is 5'6", so she's tall for a skater. Karen Chen is 5'. Mirai, I think, is around 5'2". Gracie Gold is 5'5".

Yes, r152, and Sakamoto's jumps have some actual height, unlike yours, which were horizontal lunges.

OMG, I just saw flashes of Chelsea Clinton in Bradie's face. Poor thing.

Thanks for the 5'6 info confirmation. After watching petite girls/ladies for 4 days, she truly looks a bit of a giraffe out on the ice...long legs and a bit gangly.

Mirai is 5'3.

Bradie is 5'6. She looks taller because she hasn't eaten since she was 12.

Hoping for Canadian bronze for DL tears! I'm greedy.

The Russians are soooo good. Both programs were exciting.

R159 so bitter Michelle. Remember when your Daddy's plan about the Flutz backfired? ha!

Tara wouldn't have won under the current system--URs and flutzes.

I actually think Bradie will grow a bit more into her limbs and style. She is 20, but she spent two years injured, so she hasn't had as much time to add senior polish to her programs as other skaters her age.

What is a flutz? First time I have heard that.

R162, I'm cheering for a Japanese bronze, but I won't be in tears over a Canadian one--neither Osmond nor Daleman has obnoxious fans a la Virtue/Moir.

[quote]Tara wouldn't have won under the current system--URs and flutzes.

Neither would Michelle.

R165 a Flutz is a fake lutz. Cheating the entry.

A flutz is a lutz jump where the skater switches from the outside edge to the inside edge at the last minute. A lutz take-off should be from the outside edge and is harder than a flip, which is the same jump from an inside edge. So flip + lutz=flutz. Lots of skaters flutz, but they're supposed to be downgraded for it. Some are, some aren't.

R162 I actually hope that Osmond gets the bronze (her FS is the only watchable program out of the last flight except for may be Satoko). I just hate the obnoxious V/M and their crazy fans, and the incest twins of course (but everyone hates them).

I have learned so much from you guys. Thanks.

So no skating tomorrow, right? Why do the ladies getting a day off in between?

They're ladies, fragile and exhausted. The need the rest.

Speaking of different jumps, does anyone know why the flip, loop, and toe loop jumps aren't named after people?

The flip is named after Flip Wilson who originally did it in one of his Geraldine routines when Geraldine goes skating.

Probably because they were invented by some inferior Asian R174. BTW the loop is often also called the Rittberger, but Americans are probably too stupid to pronounce that.

Don't count on Osmond for the bronze. Her SP is terrific, but I don't think she's skated her FS clean once. I think she runs out of steam with those huge jumps of hers.

R175, Asian skaters weren't a thing until the 1980s, so no, they weren't inventing the jumps.

Are the Russians using any performance enhancers? I know it's not common for the Russians to do that. Just wondering.

r178 That sure would help with their doing all their jumps in the last half of their program.

They probably have therapeutic use exemptions for everything they take...on TSL Meghan Duhamel alluded to 2 countries with pairs skaters who fill up a full front/back page of therapeutic use exemptions. She did not name them but I'm sure we can all guess.

Is it Stolbova R180?

Eteri probably gets a package deal from whatever fake doctor has been doing her face.

I, for one, am not that impressed with the Russians--especially Medvedeva. She has an odd shaped body and Dolly Darling hands. Though technically good, I find her kind of floppy. The Canadian was solid and cheerful like Witt. Oksana Baiul was much more polished.

You have the phone of that number dear Elena? I have a pupil who let's just say need a little help for her heart problems now that meldonium is banned.

The Russians better come through because I don't think they have even 1 gold medal at this point.

I miss seeing skaters like Liz Manley - she was a little firecracker even though she could never do a clean program.

So Evgenia didn't fall on the 2A. Don't worry Evgenia there is still the free!! Working on the voodoo.

Did you see that bitch Eteri's face at Alina's scores? She prefers Evgenia so much it's not even funny. Hope she doesn't sabotage Alina for her favourite little pet. Don't drink anything she gives you girl!

The scores of the Russiabots are such a travesty what else is new. That said the panel was giving christmas gifts as usual to Satoko on URs and to Kaetlyn on her flutz. After amazing events in all 3 other disciplines, this event really drove home how the terrible judging has affected the ladies. It was close to unwatchable.

Yeah Satoko URs are quite egregious. But as long as the US ladies are buried I'm okay with that.

The 3 US ladies are mediocre but I'm kinda rooting for them to do well at least they are not annoying or obnoxious unlikable people like Miss Wagner. Karen seems like she tries very hard bless her heart, Mirai seems mentally challenged (maybe too many concussions falling on that 3A?) but she has the guts to go for the big jumps and Bradie... it must be hard to be in a cult since childhood so i have compassion.

Why did Tara have no choice but to retire after winning the gold, r137?

I believe she had double hip replacement

Damn! At 15?^^

[quote] Lipinski had no choice but to retire.

Why?

Medvedeva has bad body line and bad positions. Yes she can do the jumps but she's a cornball with those silly facial expressions. And she likes Japanese anime - n'uff said.

from previous thread Re Abachkina/Thauron split

Some mentioned Lagouge/Rahier as Junior team with some potential.

One of the most over the top thing is this K&C by Rahier at 2017 Junior Worlds...forward to 6:30 minute mark

"Dear Abachkina, if you hear me, you lost. You will never get me, never. Merci toute le monde"

YEAH ice dance drama!! give it to me to cleanse myself from that horrendous ladies SP. Abachkina can do much better than this prissy cunt though.

I've seen novice girls with more artistry than Karen Chen

[quote]I've seen novice girls with more artistry than Karen Chen

But surely you don't think Mirai or Bradie have more? They are all mediocre, let's face it. Mirai only stands out for the 3A but I doubt it will ever be consistent.

R156, if I recall correctly, didn't the US skating team all die in a plane crash in the early 60's? That's why we didn't medal in 1964. Peggy Fleming was young and not on that flight.

The US ladies are just boring to look at-- no artistry of any sort, no matter the gushing of the commentators desperately supporting American skaters.

What's happened to American skating? Why can't we even compete anymore? We used to dominate.

I think gymnastics just eclipsed skating in popularity here. We'll see if there is any kind of tidal change after the abuse scandal. But skating is expensive as hell and if you don't live near a rink with good coaches, it's hard to really get anywhere. And without any recent success stories, it's hard to inspire young kids to take up the sport. It's a vicious circle.

Alysa Liu and Pooja are good hopes for the American ladies in the future. But then again they are 2 against dozens and dozens in Japan, Russia and Korea. There are multiple factors but i think the inability of USFSA to detect and develop the talents at the lower stages with no centralized coaching program is a massive factor of failure. Obviously the popularity of the sport has plummeted but there are still lots of young girls skating and they are not being developed and followed properly.

R201 I watched the Japanese nationals and outside of the last group, the women (and men too) are mostly clunkers. It explains why Miyahara, Hanyu, and Uno have been the top dogs in Japan this quad without any serious opponents or apparent successors. But the Russian nationals (esp. the ladies) are truly scary. Even most of the girls in the last groups were doing triple-triples and landed them. I think the ladies field will be dominated by Russia for many years to come, esp. given the resources the Russian government will put into it given that it's now the main winter sports there (OAR hasn't won any gold yet this Olympic but they will with this ladies FS)

Yes, R198, the 18-member US Figure Skating team was killed in a plane crash in 1961 on their way to Worlds that year. It decimated the US program, but it had enough depth to come back. Peggy Fleming was actually pushed along much sooner because of the crash. Her 6th place finish at the Olympics and 1964 was about the best the US program could do in ladies that year. But Peggy was always looked at for 1968 and she delivered.

R197 Yes, the triple axel is nice (when she lands it). But Mirai has almost zero choreography and presentation. Karen Chen's program at least had some artistry which is why she gets better PCS.

Zagitova does choreography every second of her program and she still lands amazing jumps. It's really impressive.

R202 please at Japanese nationals in the SP every girl had a triple triple and there were only 2 falls in the entire event. For men i agree the level is not good but for ladies they really have depth and in juniors they also have massive depth and several girls doing 3A. They also have more viable jumps in general meaning they won't lose them like all those Russian wonderkinds who win everything at 15 and then disappear. I definitely think Japan will be a massive factor along with Russia in the next quad and further. The Korean girls are also coming.

Tara had an op-ed in the NYTimes yesterday, and she brought it up again last night. In Russia, junior skaters are encouraged and rewarded for trying more difficult content. The USFSA rewards clean programs, so the girls don't have the incentive to try harder combinations. We are seeing here that's really paid off for the Russians.

The field of Japanese girls is quite deep. At least they have a full final group of good skaters. Myahara, Sakamoto, Higuchi, Mihara, Honda, the young girl with 3A.

The deep of their male field is worse. The third man at Olympics is Tanaka who got beaten comfortably by Rippon. And I had to suffer 3 Les Miserables in a row in one of the early groups at Nationals.

Their pair field is almost not existent

Ice Dance is still dependent on the Reed household. But some decent thing are emerging, but nothing special (probably not better than the Reeds)

In Korea, the best girls were not here as they were too young.

The Ladies event is so anti-climactic...who really cares which Russian wins? Or who gets the Bronze? It's not even like one of them is a total cunt to spice things up. At least skank Ashley would provide some entertainment. This is why they need to have the fucking Team Event at the end...so we all still have something to look forward to. Now that the individual events are over, you'd get Sui/Han, Papadakis/Cizeron, Hanyu, Jin Boyang.

Meanwhile, Virtue/Moir are still being coy and refuse to say whether they're retiring. I'm going to cut some Canadian bitches if those assholes don't leave and take their fans with them.

I finally watched the CBC broadcast of Ice Dance and Carol Lane and Kurt Browning were pretty respectful (they've obviously been talked to)...until the end of P/C's FD. Closet queen Kurt said P/C made everything look easy...but then asked if it was because it was easy. Carol snickered and responded that Kurt would have to ask the French that question. (Implying that she thought it was. Which isn't new...they said at Boston Worlds that "To Build A Home" lacked difficulty compared to their darlings Weaver/Poje.) Kurt said that Virtue/Moir's Moulin Rouge was harder...that it's more difficult to skate frenetically and to portray characters than it is to just be lyrical and floating. What a dumbass. He should know better. He's married to a fucking ballerina...who, according to him, loves Papadakis/Cizeron.

R206 That's interesting. The USFSA needs to punish under-rotated jumps more, because so many of the US girls struggle with that. Tara and Michelle (and Sarah Hughes) all under-rotated as well, so it's not a recent problem.

Someone said this in the previous thread:

[quote]It's odd that Chen Lu didn't inspire more singles skaters. Her 96 Worlds long program to Rachmaninoff is the best artistic program that I've ever seen from a singles skater.

It's probably because she lost that competition (robbed) and then basically became a train wreck and disappeared until Nagano and then disappeared again.

[quote]The USFSA rewards clean programs, so the girls don't have the incentive to try harder combinations.

But doesn't the USFSA use the same scoring system as the ISU so that, for example, a fall on a fully rotated 3A would be worth more than a clean 2A?

Rafael Arutunian has just given an interview to some Russian interview.

He says Nathan Chen doesn't listen to him.

He had pain in one of the his legs. He told him not to do Lutz and Flip in the SP. Chen disagreed and told him at 6 in the morning of the day of the SP that he was going to do them anyway.

Arutunian says it's Chen's family that decided which jumps he should have made. His family wanted to go "for the record, for Gold" not understanding that the Gold is not won with the SP

[quote]Lipinski had no choice but to retire.

[quote]Why?

She had to immediately have hip surgery following the Olympics. There was no way she would have been competitive after that.

[quote]Damn! At 15?^^

It was because of that triple loop triple loop combo she did.

[quote]Mirai only stands out for the 3A but I doubt it will ever be consistent.

It's already more consistent than Tonya's ever was.

Arutunian says Ashley wasn't well trained

"Adam listened very attentively to me, practiced well, did everything I told him."

R156 don't forget some actually argue that Mirai should have won Bronze in Vancouver but that they gave it to whatserface because she was Canadian and her mom had just passed away.

Because Adam is an adult, he is 28 years old. He is heavy, he has such a body structure. When he tries to jump in quadruple jumps in training, his feet start hurting, and so much that the next two or three days we can not skate at all, let alone jump. But it is necessary to act. I work with what I have, and everything that Rippon and I have achieved is the result of very thoughtful training.

[quote]On a different note, it was nice seeing Tiffany Chin again. She looked great, and I didn't know that she coaches.

Did Kailani Craine, the Australian skater she coaches, place at all?

Wow, r212, I kinda figured that the two had butted heads. Remember in the K&C after his short program, Nathan kept on moving away from Rafael.

And Ashley, as I said, does not train well at all. She is very hard to force herself: she is an adult woman, she has a woman's body. With such a body, an athlete needs to keep herself very rigidly - not everyone can do it. As a coach, I did everything I could with Wagner. Although, frankly, I think that it was the decision of the entire American judicial collegium - not to give Wagner the opportunity to go to the Games. At the US Championships, she lost to the third American girl in the components, and this is absolute nonsense.

full interview in Russian

[quote]But Mirai has almost zero choreography and presentation.

The thing is... she used to. I honestly think working with Carroll broke something in her. I swear, every female that skates with him seems to come out of it shattered.

"In the fact that for the present I am standing side by side and helping Nathan to follow this path. And I will do it, while he wants me to stand with him at the side. If he doesn't want, there are other athletes. Well, I'm not the coach of one Chen - I'm just a coach."

[quote]she lost to the third American girl in the components, and this is absolute nonsense.

Is it? Bitch doesn't train and has been getting by on inflated marks. Hardly any one commenting on her performance that night disagreed with her marks. In fact, several pointed out that it wasn't that she was scored lower than she should have been... it was that she had finally been scored accurately and the judges weren't holding her up.

[quote]Arutunian says it's Chen's family that decided which jumps he should have made. His family wanted to go "for the record, for Gold" not understanding that the Gold is not won with the SP

Sounds like Chen's family has it exactly right!

"or me, the main thing is that he starts doing what he wants to do, not what he is advised from outside."

"Who do you mean now?"

"First of all, family." Chen said before the Games that he will do everything this season that he will be told by the home coaching council. He told me about it clearly and openly. He explained this by being in great debt to the family for everything they had done for him. Therefore, I decided to devote the Olympic season to the family, to follow any advice and wishes on the part of relatives. Will he change this position, will probably show next year. Then we will decide how to proceed.

I'm guessing Chen is or already has dropped Rafael.

Can't wait to see Ashley's cunty reaction to Raf's comments.

[quote]Chen said before the Games that he will do everything this season that he will be told by the home coaching council.

The "home coaching council"? Yikes!

P/C fans you must read this. A dance critic's love letter to P/C and "Moonlight Sonata" and some tasteful, but seriously pointed shade thrown at Virtue/Moir and the Shibutanis.

Even the pictures and their captions are a riot.

I bet that Arutunian is a DLer.

R224 Well, I'm not sure which girl Rafael is discussing. Ashley was behind Bradie and Karen Chen and ahead of Mirai in PCS. I agree with Karen's scores, but Bradie's junior programs should have lower PCS that Ashley. I'm glad to see that the international judges (unlike the national judges) can correctly score Bradie's PCS.

R230 thanks for posting that, ha.

[quote]This American brother and sister, revered for their precision and joie de vivre, are elite athletes. But when they pressed together in head-to-toe camel spins — each holding onto the other’s extended free leg and waist to the lyric “Para-para-paradise” — it gave me pause. I couldn’t have skated to that with one of my brothers.

[quote] but this year, as they swept across the ice with gaping mouths to music from the “Moulin Rouge” soundtrack

He is happy Aliona won Pairs because she's old. She should be an example for everybody that persistence and work will pay off at the end.

For the same reason he wanted Virtue/Moir to win. But then he had a weird feeling because P/C were equally good but there was just one Gold medal

[quote]When he tries to jump in quadruple jumps in training, his feet start hurting, and so much that the next two or three days we can not skate at all, let alone jump.

Thanks for that quote, R217. Rippon haters have said he is lazy for not having a quad, but it's obvious that he trains very hard. His body just cannot handle quads.

On Rippon

"We wrote down a detailed plan how to make it to the Olympics and do the most there. Everything worked out. For me it was a personal coaching bonus. "

R235 Adam is lazy... his whining that his feet hurt is just that... laziness!!! He's also too fat to do quads. Rafael is just not throwing him under the bus because Adam is the only one who listens to him.

Was Arutunian Nathan's coach when Nathan got injured a couple years ago? If so, I can understand why he'd now be more conservative whenever Nathan's body feels any pain or soreness. Too bad Nathan (and his family) didn't listen to him.

"Yes. Adam Rippon was training well - he went out there with 2 axels, made it to the top 10, made it to the team event and got a bronze medal. "

R238 yes, he was already with him

Chen is ill now, he has some kind of virus. RA doesn't know if he will go to Worlds

I'm really disappointed in the USA judge from last night. Why didn't they take a page from Canada and rank Mirai 2nd instead of 7?

According the that Raf article referenced above, Nathan was injured. Was USFSF notified of this? Aren't there consequences if you don't tell them?

[quote]Was USFSF notified of this? Aren't there consequences if you don't tell them?

Who cares?

R221 Finally, someone (Rafael) has some good tea to share! The Google translate version is good reading. Quad toe is somehow translating to sheepskin coat.

Question: Would you rather be Denise Biellmann, with just one World title (no Olympic medal) but with a popular spin named after you, or would you rather be Sarah Hughes, with an Olympic gold but now basically forgotten in the sport?

[quote]sheepskin coat.

Is it my call time already?

I'd rather have a popular move named after me.

[quote]Question: Would you rather be Denise Biellmann, with just one World title (no Olympic medal) but with a popular spin named after you, or would you rather be Sarah Hughes, with an Olympic gold but now basically forgotten in the sport?

How about neither? How about I rather be me with my TWO Gold medals!

R246 Olympic gold trumps everything. Everyone in the world knows what an Olympic gold medal means. Few people outside of figure skating can name a Biellman spin, but Sarah Hughes can put "Olympic gold medalist" in her bio and everyone knows what that means.

How about two silver medals and coaching multiple skaters to Gold!!!!

Yeah, we'll go with my Gold Medal AND eponymous skill which all the bitches are doing today!

R250- But does anyone outside of figure skating audiences remember Sarah Hughes? Unless you're like Virtue/Moir and can boast having the most medals ever and get massive attention from non-skating fans, it's not going to matter much about gold unless you've got a career to back it up or something that catches the attention of the public. True, you can get into the history books with a gold, but who ever reads history books?

Are Tessa and Scott fucking???? They look so perfect together and are so flawless 😍 Also Yuzu and Yuna are my favourites. The King and Queen of skating! and Evgenia is so cute and so funny with her anime et Kpop love 🤗🤗

R253 The Olympics are watched by many more people than figure skating audiences. So yes, more people know Sarah Hughes than Denise Beillman.

In any case, you don't need to read history books to benefit from the gold medal. I remember an interview with Elena Dementieva after she won the gold medal in tennis. She said that most regular people in Russia don't know what a Grand Slam is. That is the highest achievement in tennis, but not everyone follows tennis. Everyone recognized her gold medal, though. I think the Olympics are over-hyped to the extreme, but they are universally recognized around the world.

R217, that is interesting about Rippon, and it makes sense when you take his body type into account.

This article on the mechanics of the quad jump states that only men with a narrow build can do them, due to the physics involved:

[quote] athletes can only contract their bodies so much, and quads already require a level of contraction that keeps all but the most narrow-framed skaters from the top levels of competition.

That is also why women can't do them - once a girl starts to develop hips and breasts, it really affects her ability to contract her body and rotate fast. That's probably why the only female skaters to have landed quads were tiny girls at the time (14-year-old Japanese skater Miki Ando in the 2002 Junior Grand Prix, and Lipinsky in practice I believe).

It might also explain why Asians now dominate the men's competition - their slighter builds are a real advantage when it comes to quads.

Yeah, R255. A lot of people watch the Olympics but can the average person who watches name a medal winner even three weeks after they've won?

What kind of endorsements did Sarah get after she was gifted a Gold?

[quote]This article on the mechanics of the quad jump states that only men with a narrow build can do them

Bullshit!

Did Midori ever train a quad? I'm surprised she didn't do them.

Yeah, that's why you landed so many in competition, eh Surya?

If Nathan’s listening to his family over his coach, he’s really not going to last until 2022 at this point. I sense a career ending injury in his future.

I don't know, r259, but it's interesting that it was Midori and not Kristi who was a better jumper because Kristi had the narrower build although, I guess, Midori's thicker lower body did enable her to jump much higher than Kristi.

Sarah Hughes grew a few inches and her chest filled out the year after she won Ols. She lost her jumps, especially her triple-triples. She lost to Kwan at Nats and at Worlds. She was ballyhooed for being the 1st American woman Gold Medalist to compete in the upcoming season. After that she bailed to college and never made a blip again. I think her family had money.

[Quote] It might also explain why Asians now dominate the men's competition - their slighter builds are a real advantage when it comes to quads.

To be honest yes it advantages slight builds but other ethnicities also have men with very slight builds. Look at that freak Canadian guy Reynolds. Besides Javier or someone like Kolyada who are white have some of the best quads in the circuit. Obviously Kolyada is a headcase but in terms of technic.

[quote] If Nathan’s listening to his family over his coach, he’s really not going to last until 2022 at this point. I sense a career ending injury in his future.

Or, he's only going to stay in the sport because of his family and will be miserable doing it.

[quote]Yeah, that's why you landed so many in competition, eh Surya?

Yes, thank you for your support!

Someone in an earlier thread said that Nathan doesn't seem to enjoy figure skating in the same way that Adam or Mirai do, and I think that's an accurate observation. I would love to see Nathan continue skating to see how he develops in his artistic side, but I wouldn't be surprised if he retired soon.

R262 well Midori also had a lot more speed and power... and she was bowlegged.

I remember a study that came out years ago that explained why Asian athletes were often good at gymnastics and it would probably translate to figure skating as well.. Asians have lighter bone density.

Sarah competed after she won? Wow, no clue.

R268, I've heard that said before but I never understood how being bowlegged helps. Do you know why?

Nathan should just quit and go to college full time. He doesn't look like he enjoys skating.

R271 from what I understand it has to do with the musculature in bowed legs that store more energy and allows for more spring.

What I find funny is that you always hear commentators say that in order to land a triple axel you have to make sure your leg wrap is so tight otherwise there's no chance in hell in landing it.

Go ahead and take a look at Midori's wrap.

R272 Yes, Nathan looks miserable on the ice. What that man needs is a good healthy boinkfest.

Wow, r274, that is a really interesting GIF. Just look at how high Midori is jumping! Maybe it's because she could jump so high, allowing her more air time, that she didn't need as tight a leg wrap. That is, if you can jump higher than you don't have to rotate as fast.

R276 there are competitions where you can see Midori literally gets as high as the top of the boards in her jumps. It's unbelievable.

Interesting, apparently Kristi was also bowlegged and she says it helped her success in skating.

LOL...over on the P/C thread at Goldenskate somebody took a big chunk of my post at R208 and tried to pass it off as their own.

Thief...I know I'm full of wit and insight...but don't make me have to register there and call you out.

This forum has more good dirt than that one.

Also R276 I believe that was taken 4 years after she initially retired.

I hope no Russian 13 years old lands the quad Adel before Hanyu. Boy deserves to be the first.

*axel

[quote]Or, he's only going to stay in the sport because of his family and will be miserable doing it.

In Chinese families the kids have a lifelong requirement to please the parents. The parents relentlessl push them to overachieve in everything; they must be straight-A students, and excel stunningly in something else, be it classical music, skating, gymnastics, whatever. The parents withhold their love, even when the child achieves the demand. Nathan could have landed 7 quads and they would have said, "well you could have done eight." There is little or no love or affetion. Parents believe they are doing what is best for the kid, but it's really damaging mentally and emotionally. Maybe this is why Nathan doesn't enjoy skating; in a way he's sort of forced to do it.

Thanks, r280. I was just about to say that I don't recognize her hairdo in that GIF. Initially I thought it was a GIF from when she was really young because her lower body also looks thinner than I remember but I didn't really follow her after she turned pro. Wow, she was still landing triple Axels as a pro?!

No one's going to be landing a quad axel any time soon. That video in the other link explained it pretty well.

Yes, R284. And it actually got better as a pro. But that clip above was actually when she reinstated to try to help Japan earn spots for Nagano.

Watch me.

Sure, Yuzuru, sure. I'll watch you be Javi's "Ice wife," but you're never going to land a quad axel.

Orser even said the jump is doable and Yuzuru has been doing it with a harness already.

Yes, because Orser knows more about physics than a Physicist. And doing something in a harness is hardly the same thing as actually being able to do something without one.

Doesn't Zhou also have a mum everybody is afraid ?

I love this quad race to be honest. "Watch my quad lutz, look at my flip, here comes the axel". It's like they are comparing penis sizes. Meanwhile female singles are stuck in the 90s.

Skip to the one minute mark.

Given that Orser has been coaching skaters to Olympic gold 3 times already, yes he knows more than a dumb scientist who probably never leaves his lab. Also I read that the limit for the human body was quints. 4.5 is not 5 so perfectly doable.

True, R279, DL is way more fun...but for P/C news they do have that guy Alain who is a superfan with some kind of connection to them. They seem to use him to leak information to fans. P/C stuff usually hits there first and then spreads to FSU and other places. The poor guy has been silent since the Olympics started. Hope he's OK.

Stole this from GS but at 11min mark Romain thanks Didier for supporting Gabi/Guillaume. They would've loved gold but it's silver and hopefully in 4 years it's gonna be gold with more money from Didier. Then they all laughed. Pretty funny/cute tbh.

Hanyu-san has to be one of the most boring OGM men ever. If only Daisuke Takahashi had been able to skate clean. Now there's was a Japanese man with presence on the ice. Hanyu-san has great technical ability, but is too passive and uninspired artistically for me. Yawn.

[quote]Given that Orser has been coaching skaters to Olympic gold 3 times already, yes he knows more than a dumb scientist who probably never leaves his lab. Also I read that the limit for the human body was quints. 4.5 is not 5 so perfectly doable.

Hahaha. Right.

I don't know what you read but the video in the other thread stated that the limit for the human body was no more than 4 revolutions thus making a quint impossible. That would mean 4.5 isn't going to happen any time soon either. I'm not saying it won't happen... it's just not going to happen any time soon. And it won't be Hanyu who does it.

Most boring, r297? How soon they forget!

Do you think if clean Daisuke would have beaten pinnacle of artistry and masculinity Evan Lysacek? Tbh i think there is a case to be made than even with the fall Takahashi should have been 1st or at least 2nd in Vancouver.

I have never understood the love for Takahashi. Man is ugly as sin and did Ricky Martin programs pretending to be heterosexual to please his Japanese fraus. I'll even take overscored Uno over him.

R301 Vera didn't let you go to the sauna today Evan?

Let's not kid ourselves here. Vancouver gold should have been mine.

So someone can love the blue today too.

Thanks R221, very interesting and frank interview.

Does the woman announcing the scores have a STERN voice?

I am an example of one of the few Asians who is not a tiger mum. I let all my crappy children skating

The link at R293 is a great example of what a shitty commentator Sandra Bezic is. "I have never seen a woman jump like that in my life!" Uh, except Midori herself had been jumping like that for years at that point.

Midori did get freakinshly high with her jumps, which usually means incredible upper body strength. Her 3A is still unmatched IMO.

Wired video on why quint jumps may be impossible:

Bezic really took too much dope while touring with Toller Cranston and co. It affected her for life.

The Shibutani tiger mother must be the worst of the lot. She literally bought them an ice rink! and forbade Weaver/Poje to relocate there lol. No wonder the sibs have had the life sucked out of them.

[quote]The Shibutani tiger mother must be the worst of the lot.

You obviously don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

R308 I think Bezic was just commentating that no one besides Ito ever jumped like that. It was also surprising at a Pro event. Additionally, tons of skaters always remarked that watching Midori jump was astonishing each and every time. No one could get over it.

But yeah, Bezic was annoying as fuck in so many other ways.

This summer the Canton rink was a rich parents' islands...

the skaters with Marina were

the Shibs

the Reeds (I don't know what their father do but they must be rich to afford 3 children doing ice dance given none of them is particularly good and I doubt sponsors cover all their costs)

Isabella Tobias (who is probably richer than all of them. As junior, she was known to go to practice with the helicopter. But maybe it was just a joke...)

well, and Lorenz/Polizoakis...but Joti is basically an appendix of his fag hag Isabella and Lorenz is dating the Lithuanian guy who used to dance with Tobias and who previously dating Madison Choke...yes, Michicag Ice Dance world is little!

Another note from my catching up on other skating forums since the Ice Dance Gold...

It's amazing the amount of V/M fans who have spent the last 2 years slamming P/C...but who have now come crawling over to make nice on the P/C threads and claim they've always been a fan of both pairs. It's like they need to be on the winning team...and with V/M gone...PC are all that's left. At least the Shibs stans are consistent...I can respect that.

I used to think that tennis parents were the worse, but now I'm not so sure.

R312, no Bezic was talking about that particular jump. "That was the finest ever done!" Useless hyperbole. Yes, Midori was always amazing to watch, but we don't need Sandra to tell us that, especially when she has pretty much nothing actually informative to say.

Ice skating always seems to have the most insipid commentators, who lean heavily on useless crap and say very little about the technical specs. Which especially sucks because skating already has the rep of not being a "real" sport.

R315 Tennis parents still win. I don't think any figure skating parents have drugged their children's rivals and accidentally killed them.

Thanks for that video, r308. Midori's 3A+3T combination is spectacular and, even today, no woman can come close to that. In fact, of the top women only Mirai is even attempting a 3A but not in combination. Just wondering, did Midori ever land a 3A+3T in competition?

I'm not impressed, r317.

My Russian mommy and Chinese daddy don't make me practice my jumps, they tell me I don't need a triple axel or quad, I'm perfect just the way I am! They didn't even make me study geography, where is Uzbekistan again? Do real tiger parents help their children fill out their visa forms correctly?

[quote] I've heard that said before but I never understood how being bowlegged helps.

I've known this for decades!!!

R320 You should talk about it on the phone with Hanyu your bestest friend and then post on social media about it.

I used to think Misha's friendship with Yuzuru was genuine. He was one of the rare actually cheering for him during his sp at Sochi while everyone else around him was feeling threatened for Patrick Chan. But nowadays he is trying a bit too hard to milk it especially that recent post. I mean I can't fault him since most skaters try and do the same and use Hanyu for their 3 seconds of fame but at least they don't pretend to be bff. I wonder what it's like to be Hanyu knowing most people who want to be friends with you are just using you. No wonder he was so upset about Javier retiring. He is probably the only real skating friend he has. Not to mention a hot piece of ass.

They need to bring back the school figures portion of the figure skating competition. It's crazy that they don't do it anymore. It would make skating more popular again.

When was the last Olympics that school figures were done?

People would tune in to watch boring figures??

Not that I can judge, because I wish they would bring back the compulsories section of gymnastics.

R324 Calgary was the last Olympics that had them.

And with it the sport became all about the jumps.

I have a feeling that it was television that pushed getting rid of "school figures" in skating. And yet those old clips of stars like Sonja Henie, Peggy Fleming and Dick Button skating those figures (outdoors, no less) are weirdly compelling. Maybe bringing them back would not only make it less a splat fest but also make for viral videos.

R325 exactly. Except keep that bitch Ludmilla Tourischeva away from choreographing any of the events.

[quote]I have a feeling that it was television that pushed getting rid of "school figures" in skating.

I don't think TV played much of a role in pushing out figures. They didn't spend all that much time airing them. I think it did mostly have to do with trying to be more athletic but it ultimately backfired two decades later.

In addition to the school figures, there was a "special figures" category in the early 1900s where skaters drew elaborate figures akin to Spirograph patterns.

The should bring figures back. But just for men. And they should have to compete them naked. They can air then on Onlyfans.

R329 TV absolutely played a big role. Yes, they didn't air figures and that was the problem. Figures affected the results and people didn't understand. Brian Orser won the short and long program in 1984. But he placed 2nd because of figures.

R331 naked in the cold? no thanks!

But now that half the female skaters seem to be practically wearing thongs, maybe it's time to rethink the no tights rule for men.

I agree that TV played a role. Many casual viewers wouldn't tune in if they found out that their favorite skater had pretty much been eliminated from winning because he or she botched the school figures.

I still don't think TV played that big of a role in getting rid of them. Whether or not viewers understood it or not, they were still tuning in. But I'd be interested in seeing any references that actually shows that they did.

Bobrova just posted a long message on Instagram (so long that she had to make 2 instaposts). She thanks everyone. God. Her first coaches. Soloviev who has always waited for her despite everything . Zhulin. All coaching team. I think she even thanks her hairdresser at one point.

No thank you message to Meldonium though.

Sounds as a retirement message.

Soloviev has a post ending with "Thanks Katya! We have done an incredible job together and only we know what we had to go through together."

[quote]Many casual viewers wouldn't tune in if they found out that their favorite skater had pretty much been eliminated from winning because he or she botched the school figures.

How many times did that happen?

What's the lowest you could place in figures and still win?

I know Midori was terrible at Figures. Anyone know where she placed in them at the 89 World Championships?

I found info from 1990 that says she botched her Figures and ended up in 10th there, placed 1st in the SP and FS and won silver.

^Got the info. Midori was 6th in Figures in 1989.

Looking at the rankings in figures from 88 and 89... apparently Yamaguchi was fucking terrible at figures. I knew she wasn't great at them but I didn't know she was that bad.

R318, I don't think Midori landed the 3A-3T in competition, but she did land the 3A-2T. So dia Mao Asada.

R340, and in 1988 Midori was 14th in school figures, which pretty much kept her off the podium. She actually placed 3rd in both the short and long but could move up only to 6th. Must have been so demoralizing for her to come in 14th in school figures and know that the competition was essentially over for her at that point.

Bezic used to commentate on skaters whose programs she choreographed. NBC never let that out of the bag. The one year Roz Sumners commentated she was brutal. She told it like it was and then they brought Bezic back.

With all the technology today, imagine if figures were back in the mix. Computer science could probably guarantee no cheating. Well the Russians would still find a way....

[quote]I don't think Midori landed the 3A-3T in competition, but she did land the 3A-2T. So dia Mao Asada.

I thought the person was just saying in general, when she'd throw the 3A , 3T in practice, it was phenomenal. Keep in mind that that was pretty much the combo the Men were using to win Gold at the time. Midori's was even higher (and better than) theirs.

[quote]Bezic used to commentate on skaters whose programs she choreographed. NBC never let that out of the bag.

Which is interesting because CBS specifically wouldn't let her commentate for them in 92 because she had choreographed Yamaguchi's program and they didn't want there to be a conflict of interest.

[quote]he one year Roz Sumners commentated she was brutal. She told it like it was and then they brought Bezic back.

Interesting. I saw her interview on TSL and something about her read Aspie to me.

What is the beef between P/C and the Shibs ( p/C didn't clap for shibs in the medal ceremony)

R336 You can check Wikipedia article if you want. Of course Wikipedia can be unreliable, but the links to archived articles at the end have the details. The second link is particularly useful:

"TELEVISION WAS THE DRIVING FORCE behind all these post-1968 changes. Figures competitions don't make for particularly exciting television broadcasts, and since figures were never shown on television, many casual fans found it incomprehensible that competitions could be won by skaters who had built up huge leads in the figures portion of the event but gave mediocre performances in the part of the competition shown on TV. [...] There were other reasons why television contributed to the death of figures in international competitions. Increased coverage of skating in the 1970s and 1980s also increased the respectability of the judging of the sport. Since everybody could now watch skating and judging, it was hard to get away with judging on politics or reputation instead of the actual performance. But since figures competitions weren't televised, fans could not be certain that the judges were on the level. Such "dirty judging" might not actually have been occurring, but the lack of public accountability gave figures a bad name.

Ironically, though, when the vote to finally eliminate figures from international competition was taken, the change was opposed by the U.S. and Canada -- the two countries where television has most influenced the sport -- and supported by the European federations. So in the end it was not television that made the difference, but the relative scarcity of rinks and practice ice for figures in Europe as compared to North America."

TV was a big part of why compulsories were eliminated. Too boring to focus on, casual audiences didn't understand them, and commentators had a tough time explaining them. Not only did they hold back strong free skaters, they also bolstered poor performers. So the audience would see someone like Midori Ito do more triple jumps than any of the women and most of the men and then hear she "couldn't" be in medal contention because of compulsories. And then they'd see a terrible performance by someone like Kira Ivanova, but she ends up in the top 10 just behind Midori because she came first in compulsories. It gave the false impression that somehow compulsories were some kind of shading back-room dealing, when in actuality they were the only real objective judging in the sport.

Eliminating figures also made the sport a lot cheaper and opened up possibilities for poorer skaters/nations to be in contention.

The US was one of the few countries opposed to eliminating figures. This was because despite holding back some US women like Janet Lynn, the US actual fared really well with that system. And not surprisingly, once the last generation of single skaters trained in figures aged out (late 90s), the US lost its dominance, especially among women. (Pairs/dancers didn't do compulsories.)

R345, I never liked Bezic's commentary, but I must say that she did an excellent job with Kristi's '92 Malaguena program, which remains in the top 10 of my all-time favorites. Sadly, Kristi never did skate it completely cleanly, mainly because of the 3S. The closest she came was the '92 Nationals when she did hit the 3S, but in that performance she took a couple extra steps between the 3Lz and 3T of her opening combination jump. Still, it's so beautifully choreographed, so kudos to Bezic.

Didn't that Trump bitch Scott Hamilton win a title or two over Orser because of the school figures?

R350

R345, CBS and NBC are very different networks.

Bezic was a great choreographer, she should just not be allowed anywhere near a microphone. I remember one of the primetime shows aired a segment on how Kristi's 1992 long program was developed, from music to choreography to execution, that was really great. It showed how a program was built from the ground up and how the coach, choreographer and skater had to strategize and work around the skater's strengths and weaknesses.

Of course, NBC was not covering the Olympics then.

OMG, that's the segment R352! Thanks!

R351, yes Hamilton won over Orser in 1984 only because of compulsories.

Did Bezic also do Kristi's short program that year? That was also a classic, set to the Blue Danube waltz.

R347...Gabriella and Guillaume have taste...of course they don't like the Shibs. But, seriously, some shit must have gone down. They're very friendly with both Hubbell/Donohue and Chock/Bates...so maybe they know things that we only suspect.

But now I'm curious...so I'm totally going to check out other podiums and see what their interaction is like.

[quote]CBS and NBC are very different networks.

Yeah, that's what I was pointing out.

Wait, was Christy Ness the Steve Nunno of Figure Skating???

[quote]Gabriella and Guillaume have taste...of course they don't like the Shibs. But, seriously, some shit must have gone down. They're very friendly with both Hubbell/Donohue and Chock/Bates...so maybe they know things that we only suspect.

And how are they with V/M? No one seems to have answered that question.

Do we mean the "flower" ceremony just after FD when they did straight to the podium without stopping to hug Shibs?

Maybe they were just still "confused" by all post results emotions

Who would win a Chock-Maia catfight?

Bezic also did this piece which is in my top 5 of all time favorites.

R363, I, too, love that performance. It's also on my all-time favorite list, along with Kristi's Malaguena.

R356 yes, Bezic did Blue Danube as well.

[Quote] And how are they with V/M? No one seems to have answered that question.

They are ok with Virtue/Moir not best friends but cordial and there is respect between them. Especially Guillaume and Tessa appreciate each other

R363, she also choreographed Lu Chen's beautiful 1998 Butterfly Lovers LP, which I will always remember because I had a full-on MARY! moment when Lu stepped off the ice and bowed down to her coaches.

Bezic also did Chen Lu's, "Butterfly Lovers," which you can't find a copy of since it keeps randomly getting a copyright violation despite the music being available in other forms on Youtube.

yeah that sucks. The audio is removed. Fucking tragic

R363 Ah, that is my favorite performance of all time. I still can't believe that came in second. I know Kwan had one more triple jump compared to Chen Lu's extra double axel. But Chen Lu's jumps were so much bigger and more impressive. Chen would have dominated the GOE scores to win technically under the current system. Artistically, there is no contest. I'm a Michelle fan (especially in 1998 and afterwards), but her Salome program was like a little girl playing dress-up compared to Chen Lu's masterpiece.

Chen Lu was completely robbed of winning her second world title in 96. I wonder if things would have been very different for her leading up to 98 if Kwan hadn't been gifted that win.

[quote]but her Salome program was like a little girl playing dress-up compared to Chen Lu's masterpiece.

In my opinion that's why they gave it to her. To "reward her" for the "transformation" of looking like a 10 year old monkey on the ice the year before.

I totally agree with you, r370, and I, too, am a Kwan fan. But Chen Lu's Rachmaninoff performance was sublime. It was really more art than sport, although the athleticism was also top-notch.

I loved Kwan's Salome LP. She also had the stronger SP. Although I would be fine with either her or Chen having won in 1996.

Did Lu Chen ever reveal just what the hell happened to her in 1997?

Didier not happy

«Les Canadiens se sont bien vendus, ils ont un style grand public, ils sont très bien habillés aussi, lâche-t-il. L'avenir appartient à Gabriella et Guillaume mais il faut que nous fassions un bilan tous ensemble et il va falloir changer de style pour s'ouvrir davantage au monde.»

which sounds as "The Canadians sold themselves well. They have a style aimed at big public. They are well dressed. The future is for Gabriella and Guillaume but we need to do an assessment all together. We need to change style to be open to the advantages of the world"

P/C replied that they don't understand what he is saying and they will discuss it with him

Does Bezic still do choreography today? If so, I'm curious what her programs are like, given the new scoring system.

R373 I've long suspected that the Chinese weren't happy with extracurriculars that may have been going on in Chen Lu's life in the US/Canada. I want to know what happened with her and her coach.

An old Olympic segment explaining compulsories, back when coverage was informative. ABC and Dick Button of course.

Bezic did Luba and Dylan's program this year. Quite good. Kinda sexy and unique. But they just never delivered them clean. They also scrapped the SP for nationals and went back to their shitty tango.

R373, Of any skater's autobiography, I think I'd like to read Chen Lu's the most, especially if she wrote a frank account of her career. She could talk about 1997, and she could also give inside details about the '94 Olympics with Nancy, Tonya, Oksana.

Thanks, r378. I'll need to look up that program. I hope someone posts it on youtube.

R379... she said Oksana deserved the win over Nancy.

I wish Lu Chen had skated her 1994 program clean and won the gold over both boring Nancy and tippitoes Oksana. That was the weakest gold win ever until Sarah Hughes.

I'm not really a fan of Kerrigan but I don't understand how Oksana won 94 Olympics. Skating to a bunch of show tunes, dressed in that ridiculously cheap looking feather costume - and at the end, she jams in another jump for points. I can't remember what the scores were, but she must have gotten decent artistic impression numbers which is totally baffling.

Then again, Nancy's ice queen routine wasn't much better.

R383, I think the judges also wanted to punish the U.S. for bringing the whole tawdry Tonya/Nancy mess to the Olympics. Also, I think Nancy doubled her opening triple jump (a flip?), which opened the door for the judges.

Oksana's win was bullshit. Her presentation scores were the same or better than Nancy's which was fine, but her technical scores were way too high. At least 3-4 judges gave Oksana the same or higher tech score as Nancy and that was a total scam. Nancy had a 3-3 combo plus much more difficult jump entries. Oksana skating straight down the rink into her jumps and flubbed her 3F.

^And the fact that Oksana had room to add a 3T to her program at the last minute is demonstrative of just how technically weak the whole program was.

Even if the US allowed Tonya to skate, couldn't the IOC have banned her from performing - or are they only allowed to ban for things like doping?

The american ladies are a lost cause for the next few years. Tennell is old and will never get really competitive. Karen Chen has only gotten worse and seems like a headcase. Gracie Gold is probably done and is a headcase. Polina Edmunds looks done and has been out of shape. Wagner is a never was. Mirai was a headcase, Now she got it together but she is old. US ladies Figure skating seems like a poorly run enterprise nowadays. Say what you will about the Karolyis, tbey got consistent results in gymnastics. But of course now, everybody is accusing them of being abusive, which is probably true in some ways. But maybe today's american girls are really fragile little flowers, who you cannot discuss weight, URs and discipline with coz they might cry. US Figure skating ladies have been massaging their egos for a really long time.

R374- Didier's not very bright. There's no knee bashing now to bring in the crowds and bump the ratings. Remember how the Tonya/Nancy incident sent figure skating into the stratosphere, cash-wise? All those shows, all those paying customers. Now it's all dried up.

Well, Didier's just been handed the golden goose, but maybe he doesn't read Twitter. What he should be doing is begging V/M to sign some big contracts and do shows with their hot, sexy, 'are they or aren't they' selves. Even better, get P/C to join them. Do a Fours show like the good old days - who wouldn't pay good money to see one of those stacked death spirals with Scott and Guillaume?

TV, live shows - that's money in the bank, Didier.

I liked when the ice dancer lost her top and we almost saw the Greater Antilles......well the Lesser Antilles.

And who is that woman coach who looks like a hobbit? Her upturned nose makes me want to slap her in the face.....she looks like a troll doll - only not as cute.

It's amazing to see how high Midori could jump. She must have powerful legs. Didn't she go off the rink once?

[quote] But maybe today's american girls are really fragile little flowers,

I am not sure why young female American figure skaters would be particularly fragile, when American female gymnasts of the same age are dominating and killing it at Worlds and the Olympics.

R391- I remember that! I think it was the 1991 Worlds. She jumped so high that she ended up jumping right into the camera area.

Here's the clip where Midori does her combination and on the second jump she goes so high she falls into the camera pit. Paul Martini is commentating and he's stunned LOL.

R392 And while getting sexually abused by their doctor and emotionally and verbally abused by the karolyis. The gymnasts are a different breed of badasses.

Err no, Tara was not an underrotator. She might have had flaws in here skating, but jumps were not an issue.

MIdori's jumps are huge but she didn't end up in the camera pit because she jumped so high she went in to it. She jumped into it because she always jumped too close to the boards (for some reason her rink wasn't a standard size) and she happened to jump where there was already an opening.

[quote]Err no, Tara was not an underrotator. She might have had flaws in here skating, but jumps were not an issue.

Really? Some consider it an issue if you can't get more than 5 inches off the ground!

[quote]Gracie Gold is probably done and is a headcase.

[quote]Mirai was a headcase

Frank Carroll specials!

[quote]Skating to a bunch of show tunes

Skating to a medley of Neil Diamond tunes is equally as offensive. At least Oksana could claim youth as an excuse.

Any chance anyone will skate to something from The Greatest Showman at the exhibition?

But seriously, does anybody really believe that Eteri's girls arent on meldonium? In one interview, Nathan Chen was just shocked at how medvedeva can keep on doing triple after triple non stop during one practice. The other russian girls seem to have some longevity-- tukt/ radionova / pogo still seem to be around-- youve seen them deal with standard weight issues, puberty, hips and their psyche failing them. Eteri's girls are figure skating machines though. I feel like Lipnitskaya actually had to get a hip replacement they just covered it up by saying she has anorexia.

OK so maybe Guillaume doesn't hate the Shibs so much (see end of video of Shibs and P&C in K&C while V&M marks are being announced)

OK so maybe Guillaume doesn't hate the Shibs so much (see end of video of Shibs and P&C in K&C while V&M marks are being announced)

The Canadian pair @R404/R405 must have bought out Canada's hair coloring supply in dark brown before the Olympics.

I was about to say, R406 - their hair color looks like mine circa 1997 during my faux-Goth phase.

[quote]..Gabriella and Guillaume have taste...of course they don't like the Shibs. But, seriously, some shit must have gone down. They're very friendly with both Hubbell/Donohue and Chock/Bates...so maybe they know things that we only suspect.

It's not just P/C.

Look at all the top dance teams--not one of them have any pictures on their social media posing with the Shibs. Not one. And vice versa. Comb through the Shibs stuff, not one candid photo with a fellow dance team except Davis/White (their former training mates).

Madison has tons of photos of skaters across disciplines...with P/C, H/D, Adam, Mirai....but no Shibs.

P/C post photos with H/D, W/P, C/B...even V/M have popped up in a pic or two. I think there was a video of Tessa and Guillaume taking a dance class together....but again, no Shibs anywhere.

So, I think it's safe to assume something is up within the dance community and the Shibs. The Shibs obviously try very hard to ingratiate themselves to the top skaters in other disciplines, and yet not a single ice dancer.

Given that all the other top dance teams seem very friendly with each other--even P/C and V/M despite their intense rivalry--tells me the MIA of the Shibs look to be self-imposed and very intentional on their part for whatever reason.

Maybe they think they need to keep a distance to be competitive? Who knows.

My personal theory--given that tidbit of inside scoop someone posted awhile back about a local judge not having anything nice to say about them--is that the Shibs (to get where they are today) probably had to step on a lot of people in the dance community to get there.

The Shibs did a lot of coach hopping before settling in with Marina, who just happened to be the top dance coach with all the connections in the US, and also was coaching Madison Chock at that time. I'm sure getting into Marina's inner circle of students wasn't an easy feat to pull off. I'm sure a lot of "networking" had to happen. But the Shibs got in, and C/B left with Igor not long after.

If anyone has any tea to spill on those two, it's probably Madison Chock. I'm sure that girl has stories to tell.

Tara and Johnny must be doing something right. NBC just asked them to host the Closing Ceremonies.

Men invited to the Gala:

Hanyu, Uno, Fernandez, Boyang, Chen, Ge, Cha

Dance: judging from gala practices, other than top 4 there are for sure Bobrova/Soloviev and Cappellini/Lanotte

US beat CAN in women's hockey. In other news, Zagitova landed a 3Lz3Lo3Lo3Lo3Lo in practice.

Shibs must have been seething the past 4 years ever since P/C beat them at 2014 Cup of China--Shibs were leading after the short dance ahead of the reigning world champion Italians, then French did their Mozart FD and upset the entire order of waiting your turn.

Here;s the video of Zagitova doing the 5-jump combo

Zagitova's young male coach/choreography is a real cutie.

Damn, no wonder Zagitova can backload, she did an entire short programs worth of jumps in one pass. I think there's a rule, though, that limits how many jumps you can pack together, so won't see this in a program.

I think the U.S. Ladies are being held back by old-fashioned coaching--Frank Carroll's still working and he still thinks under the old 6.0 system. Gracie Gold was prettied-up under him, but the height of her jumps actually dropped. American competitions award Frank Carroll-style skating, but international judges do not.

Bradie Tennell won Nationals because she focused on the things that get high scores internationally--*if* the US skating world had been focusing on that, the U.S. would have a better version of Bradie Tennell--i.e. a skater with complex choreography and fully rotated jumps AND some of the PCS of skaters like Karen Chen.

To be fair, every country's been a bit blindsided by the Russian dominance, but it's hardly inevitable. Bradie's coach and choreographer are at least thinking the right way.

Karen's PCS ain't all that

The Russians have clapped back:

"I don't agree with Ashley Wagner's opinion of my routine. I have a balanced program: downbeat music at the start, and going upbeat gradually. All of my jumps go along with the music," Zagitova said.

Why do they do that tights over the boots thing? It doesn't look professional.

Yo fat American @ R418, when you manage to rotate a 3-3 for once in your life then you can talk ok?

Sure your program is balanced Alina. Doing your 7 jumping passes in 1 min is what is called balance

[quote]But seriously, does anybody really believe that Eteri's girls arent on meldonium? In one interview, Nathan Chen was just shocked at how medvedeva can keep on doing triple after triple non stop during one practice.

And how realistic is it for a man to do 6 quad programs without some kind of enhancement? You don't see the irony here?

Spasiba R421!

Idk if Nathan dopes, maybe. I wouldn't be surprised. But he has done 6 quads like once. Twice 5 quads. Most of the time he fucks up and in his practices he does like everyone else and skips some jumps. Eteri's girls ALL do these crazy backloaded programs. Not only Alina and Medvedeva. All of them backload like all their jumps and do their practices 120% every time with combo combo combo combo. That's just unrealistic.

We're just not fatasses like the American girls R423. Have you seen the thunder thighs on that bitch Mirai?

Scott Moir was behaving like an obnoxious twit during the USA-Canada hockey final. What a fine Olympic champion.

So Scott was acting like himself? Have the Russian skaters been tested for doping?

In comments to French television, Didier Gailhaguet, president of the French Federation of Ice Sports, suggested the presence of Canadian judge Leanna Caron, who also serves as president of Skate Canada, on the panel could have tipped the results in favor of gold medalists Tessa Virtue and Moir.

“We aren’t involved in the picking of the judges, we’re not concerned with what country sits on the panel,” Moir told a news conference.

“At Skate Canada, we have a history of very professional judging that’s very fair, and we’re proud of that. I feel that, as Canadians, when you win in Olympics, it’s when you deserve it, and we feel like these Olympics medals, that we deserve (them).”

[quote]no Bezic was talking about that particular jump. "That was the finest ever done!"

If Bezic was talking about that particular jump, I still wouldn't fault her for it. That probably was better than any of the 3As that Midori ever did in her amateur career.

[quote]Here;s the video of Zagitova doing the 5-jump combo

Someone said it above.... Medvedeva is totally going to get Kwan'd tonight.

[quote]“At Skate Canada, we have a history of very professional judging that’s very fair, and we’re proud of that. I feel that, as Canadians, when you win in Olympics, it’s when you deserve it, and we feel like these Olympics medals, that we deserve (them).”

Yes it was very fair of the Canadians to place the second Canadian team in 3rd while everyone else had them in 8th, hahahaha.

[quote]. Have you seen the thunder thighs on that bitch Mirai?

Proof you Russian bitches are stupid.

[quote]Yo fat American @ [R418], when you manage to rotate a 3-3 for once in your life then you can talk ok?

Why don't you try it without your special juice, first, k?

[quote]I think there's a rule, though, that limits how many jumps you can pack together, so won't see this in a program.

Plus she'd have to choose different jumps. She can't repeat the 3T that more than twice, right?

Sorry, 3 Lo

Yeah, she can't do more than 2 triple loops in a program. I don't know how it works with quads, though, because the men do 4T-3T combos and can still do a solo 4T. I guess quads are counted separately from triples.

R435 isn't it treated exactly the same? They can do a maximum of two of the same quads but one has to be in combination.

R430- The Turkish judge put P/C first and V/M last so that was the same thing in reverse. What's interesting is that they know the highest and lowest scores get tossed, so the Canadian judge knew that the P/C score wasn't going to count.

R437 how was that the same thing in reverse? And how does that have anything to do with them laughably saying Canadians play fairly when the Canadian judge clearly didn't?

The rule about multiples of the same jump depends on both the type of jump and number of rotations. For triples and quads, they can't do the same jump more than twice (and one must be in combo), and they can't do more than 2 different jumps twice. So 2 4Ts and 2 3Ts in the same routine is OK (if one of each is in combo), but then the skater can't repeat any other quad or triple jump.

I think until very recently there was no limit on double jumps except the 2A, but now there is a 2 jump limit on all double jumps as well.

Also factoring in are limits on the number of total jumping passes (7 for women, 8 for men in the long) and limits on the number of jump combos (3 total in the long). So skaters have to plan in advance what they will do in case of a fall or pop, and with the new scoring system they are also calculating on their feet whether their jumps were likely "certified" as triples or quads to figure out if they can throw another to keep their scores up.

I'm pretty sure they "count" the jumps in order. So if a skater does a 4T but sloppy, then another 4T in combo that's also sloppy, but throws in a 3rd 4T and it's perfect, they count the first 2 jumps and invalidate the 3rd. So skaters don't get credit for the "best" one, just the first and second one.

I don't think there's a penalty for extra jumps in the sense that there's no mandatory deduction, but the skater just gets no credit/points for them.

The Russian girls are on some hormone regime. Even those two queens from TSL alluded to that...

Thanks R439! That link was pretty comprehensive. The men will get one fewer jumping passes next year, so I wonder how that will affect the jump content.

I can't wait for the mean-sounding lady to read the scores. It's like she's saying, "Twelfth place. So there!"

[quote]I think until very recently there was no limit on double jumps except the 2A

When did that go into effect? Didn't Baiul do 3 2As in her free?

Me too I won everything putting 3 2A in my programs :) until Sochi where i couldn't and lost to some Russian whore.

if you do the same jump twice without adding the combo, now they count it as "+REP" getting 70% of the base value

In the Olympic FS Hanyu did a 4T. Then he wanted to do a combo 4t+something else. The landing of 4T was crap and couldn't attach the other jump. They counted it as 4T+REP and got 7.93 points at base value instead of 10.3. After negative GOE, he still got 5.83 points for that element overall.

Are those Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys still bitching about judging in ice dancing?

V/M have become the New England Patriots of Ice Dancing. A lot of entitled winning (except of course for this year for the Pats).

R438 Weave/Poje were quite a bit overscored at Skate Canada, so the judging is obviously skewed towards Canadians at Skate Canada

That said P/C had not only Turkish judge, but Chinese judge and US judge. So while Turkish and Canadian judge's marks got tossed, those 2 weren't. Both gave P/C 4 or more 5 points in FD

R413, that is an amazing combination sequence. Didn't Tara Lipinski have hip problems, requiring surgery, because of her 3Lo3Lo combination? And now here's Zagitova doing four triple loops in a row right after a triple Lutz. It really makes you wonder if her 15-year-old body will hold up over the long term.

[quote[The Russians have clapped back: "I don't agree with Ashley Wagner's opinion of my routine. I have a balanced program: downbeat music at the start, and going upbeat gradually. All of my jumps go along with the music," Zagitova said.

LOL at Zagitova as if the music forced her hand. As if no one ever did jumps on downtempo music and their step sequence on the uptempo.

And Lol at Ashley for sour graping.

[Quote] And now here's Zagitova doing four triple loops in a row right after a triple Lutz. It really makes you wonder if her 15-year-old body will hold up over the long term.

It won't lol but who cares i have 30 13 year old girls to replace to bitch.

Scott Moir lives in Michigan. Let's not forget that.

Complaining about bias in judging in ice skating is tantamount to complaining that the sky is blue. It's been going on forever and will go on for another lifetime. It's always been in favour of the nations who have the most influence in ISU: USA, Russia (the Soviet Union before that), Canada,... Whoever doesn't like it, well, there's some other sport which is more exact like alpine skiing, speed skating, luge, etc.

Skate Canada and Rostelecom Cup are both the laughing stock of home bonus

Turkish judge in Ice Dance is usually an appendix of Russian judge. She is used to make Russian score count

in SD Russia put P/C almost at the same level as V/M (only 0.3 behind). So in FS she put P/C only 1-2 points ahead of V/M

Turkish put P/C quite behind in SD. So she got back by putting them very in the lead in FD

At least this Turkish judge is subtle. Their other international judge is so dumb that she had to bring papers from home with the scores she has to give and she even got caught with them in the middle of a Free Dance in December...if you cheat, at least, learn them by heart!

R421 and guess what nathan chen is breaking down, came and went nowhere but eteri's girls keep on going and going until 2 to 3 years, never getting injured just like robots. They arent any different than iphones and their battery.

[quote]Weave/Poje were quite a bit overscored at Skate Canada, so the judging is obviously skewed towards Canadians at Skate Canada

Yeah, but I'm referring to what the Canadian judge did in the SP and FS of this year's Olympics.

R443, I think (not 100% sure) that the 2 jump limit on the 2A came with the new scoring system. And then a couple years ago it was expanded to include all double jumps.

I wish they didn't count single jumps towards any jump or combo limit, but still award them very low points. That might bring back some of the creativity we used to see with things like a one foot axel into a 3S.

The reason the Canadian skating community is so insufferable is that they try and take this moral high ground...when, in reality, they're down in the gutter with everyone else. Their hands are just as dirty.

Carol Lane will call out the Russians for favoritism at the Cup of Russia...but when Canadians get propped up year after year at Skate Canada...silence. Because, of course, Canadians deserve those marks. It's just everyone else that is overscored. And it's interesting that Ice Dance really is the only discipline where Canadian media and the CBC get super nasty. They're not tearing down Sui/Han or Savchenko/Massot. For the most part, they're OK with the Russian ladies and will jizz all over Hanyu and Javi. But the knives have been out for P/C since 2014-15 when they surpassed Weaver/Poje.

So V/M still haven't said whether they'll retire. Skate Canada surely must be throwing money at them. The situation in Canada is about to become bleak. Gilles/Poirier are never going to be a top team. Duhamel/Radford are gone...and while I love Charlie Bilodeau, they're not going to be on the Worlds podium. No decent men. Only Kaetlyn Osmond really competing at the top level.

I wonder if they're going to stick around a little while longer to secure their legacy. I hope they don't...but I definitely would. The reality is that while V/M have had an absolutely wonderful career and won many Olympic medals, when you dig deeper and start to compare the All-Time Greats...their case gets a little shakier. They've had 4 seasons where they were the #1 team. They've only won 3 Worlds (which P/C will surely match in Milan.) They've only won 1 GPF (like P/C). Only won 3 Four Continents (compared to P/C's 4 straight Europeans.) When you start to do the math over the next quad...where P/C will be sentimental favorites who deserve Olympic Gold...P/C could realistically tie the record of 6 World Championships and break the record of 6 European Championships. That won't help V/M's case.

[quote]I wonder if they're going to stick around a little while longer to secure their legacy.

I don't think so. I think they're smart enough to NOT go to Worlds in order to secure their legacy. They won because of a costume problem... it's not going to be a good look for them to come off the Olympics and then immediately lose to P/C at Worlds.

It didn't affect my legacy at all.

R455, actually the Turkish judge gave P/C the higher PCS and gave them roughly the same GOE as V/M so she didn't really put them behind .. The base value of p/C program was lower because of the loss of level

Lol r460, because of a costume problem, just like P/C would have won because of a propped up panel I guess.

All these skaters could hit five triple jumps in practice. That means nothing.

R461 and how many Olympic Golds do you have Yuna?

Yeah because only when V/M win is the panel legit.

Of course not, but P/C were propped up in that SD and had several more judges that were pro them in FD

Shibs probably should have been second in the SD if this event was fairly judged

So as someone who doesn't really follow Ice Dancing, what specifically should P/C have been marked down for that they weren't?

R468, GOEs were too high on sme flawed elements (twizzles, lift) and PCS were undeservedly high for a not perfect performance (higher than rest of the field)

Gabi deserved +5 GOEs on all elements for keeping her composure and skating that SD nearly as good as she did the entire season. If only some cunt didn't go snip snip on her dress they would have won and everyone knows it.

[quote] If only some cunt didn't go snip snip on her dress they would have won and everyone knows it.

I'll pull a Whitney on you and ask for the receipts.

R460...They've already said they won't go to Milan. I agree...they don't want to risk losing there and cast doubt on their Olympic Gold. If they retired tomorrow, they will have gone out on top. They will always be considered one of the great Ice Dance pairs. They will always be superstars in Canada. But, outside of the Olympics, the rest of their stats are great but very beatable.

No one gives a fuck about the Team Event medals. So V/M have 2 Individual Olympic Golds and a Silver. That is amazing. But, if P/C are left alone to dominate this quad (and who is going to beat them?) and win in Beijing...the question of whose career is better between V/M and P/C will become very debatable. Virtue/Moir over performed at the Olympics...and underperformed at all of the other big competitions. That's going to come back to bite them in the ass.

LOL at some people thinking V/M are "afraid" of going to Milan because it will cast some kind of doubt on their status.... they came back for the Olympics. They already beat P/C at Worlds last year.

It's not going to be debatable at all, because P/C have no competition currently. V/M have had to contend with D/W and beat close rivals in 2 Olympics. When P/C win 2 OG and beat actual competition, maybe there is going to be something to talk about.

Anyone need a strap cutter?

I prefer P/C by far but brushing off 2 OGMs and one silver like it's peanuts is really stupid. There is a reason the Olympics is the most prestigious competition and a lot of otherwise great skaters choke there. The pressure is on a completely different level, so guys like V/M or Hanyu deserve quite a bit of admiration.

[quote]and will jizz all over Hanyu and Javi.

Because they train in Canada with a Canadian coach...

No one is brushing it off, R475. No one is disrespecting V/M or Hanyu. But I am saying that P/C are 6-7 years younger than V/M and, outside the Olympics, have already accomplished much of what V/M accomplished in their careers. How much will they have done by the time they are Tessa and Scott's age?

The discussion here is whether V/M are retiring and whether they should retire. Are all of you V/M fans just going to cling to those Olympic medals while P/C beats them by every other measure? Or are you going to be like R473 and say that the French have no competition so it doesn't count? I don't like V/M and never want to have to deal with their batshit crazy fans ever again...but, if I were advising them, I would tell them to stick around for a little longer to try and keep P/C from dominating this quad. Do you agree or disagree?

Well not much longer for Javi. He is moving back to Spain and will stop doing full seasons. Probably just Europeans to try and beat Plushenko's record.

Believe me I hate obnoxious Canadian fans as much as you, especially V/M crazies. I just thought there was no need to put down their Olympic achievements and the Olympics in general like it's nothing. And yes P/C have the potential to beat them in terms of medals and records and general recognition as GOATs.

I wonder if my contacts in the biotech industry would know anything about doing more quads. Could the people to whom I sell DNA extraction reagents give me any tips on gene doping?

Papa Chen, why don't you think about artistry instead?

R481 Why do you think I paid for all those years of ballet school? So all his ballet teachers can give interviews on how artistic and musical he is, duh!

Papa Chen, you're going to need to work your contacts in the biotech industry to get replacement parts for your son's skeletal system.

So, any predictions for tonight? Does Zagitova have the gold locked up? Who will win the bronze medal?

Papa, it's more about choreography and feeling, is it not?

Obnoxious Canadian fans vs delusional P/C fans...hmmm who is more obnoxious

P/C will get their day of glory. It took me 5 Olympics.

I'm preparing my candles for a Medove slip up! How great would that be if she failed and then disappeared forever. Unfortunately i have no faith in those Canadian and Italian headcases. Hope JSF paid the panel enough to go blind on Satoko's jumps.

I though Russia was banned for doping. Then what are those Russian girls doing there in the first place? All their jumps in one minute...

Delusional Canadian Fans and obnoxious P/C fans.

I go back and forth on what they're going to do tonight. On the one hand I can easily see them Kwaning Medvedeva, but I can also see them just trying to make it look like she actually had some competition thus making the win legit.

I'd be shocked if Zagitova lost. Osmond has a chance for Bronze if she's clean. But the Japanese and Kostner have beaten her FS score by 3-4 points this season. If she stumbles at all, I think one of the Japanese girls will catch her. Probably not Kostner...her best shot was to nail the FS.

The Gold rightfully belongs to Medvedeva. She's winning it. Don't worry, I'm lending her my scissors!

Medove needs Zagitova to crack under pressure to win. Otherwise her base value just trumps her, even if the judges give Evgenia all +3s on her shitty jumps. Or maybe Eteri will sabotage Zagi for her favourite golden student to win. Not impossible.

I have to say I like how Mirai's been enjoying herself at these Games. Looking through her IG she's been experiencing as much as she can, watching other events, etc. I don't recall skaters in the past really doing that before their competitions. I'm sure some would argue that she shouldn't be and instead be more focused on the Ladies event, but she already has a medal, so she might as well enjoy the entire experience.

Osmond can probably hold the bronze position. Miyahara is her strongest challenger right now. Kostner will not medal absent an over-the-top splatfest.

^ Forgot to add, Mirai might still be able to pull off a Bronze IF she lands both her planned 3As AND there's a splatfest.

I hope Mirai completes a beautiful triple axel just to show up those Russian bots.

R494 Yes, Zagitova has to make mistakes. They both skated the long program clean at Euros and Zagitova won by 5.5 points on technical and trailed by only 2 points in PCS. The judges here had their PCS only .8 apart in the short program, so Medvedeva can't separate herself that way.

Whatever happened to the Russian girl that could hit triple axels? Didn't she win Worlds a few years ago? Did she hit puberty and lose all of her jumps?

I hope is a splatfest for the top 6 and Mirai can somehow pull an Ito, and nail everything, but I don't think she has that in her.

[quote]Whatever happened to the Russian girl that could hit triple axels? Didn't she win Worlds a few years ago? Did she hit puberty and lose all of her jumps?

Elizaveta Tuktamysheva (Russia)

The 2015 world champion, Tuktamysheva not only landed a triple axel at that competition, but she also became the first woman in history to land four triple jumps in a short program (triple axel, triple lutz, triple toe-triple toe combination).

She was still competing as of last year but I don't see any word on what happened to her.

Tuktamysheva just burnt out physically and emotionally imo. Especially with the arriving of all the Eteri bots the competition within Russia became insane and she was not allowed any mistakes. She also has no PCS cushion like the other Russians because she couldn't really skate or spin well and had no transitions in her programs because she is with Mishin who has not adapted to IJS. So her scores relied on her jumps and her charisma on the ice that made her sell her programs, and she lost both those things. However she has stated she will continue skating after this year, so maybe a miracle will happen and she can come back.

The roids caught up to her Elizabeta.

Chen Lu's haunting 1994 program was choreographed by Sarah Kawahara. I forget the name of the music but it was from Japanese anime.

Alina Zagitova did five consecutive triple jumps at practice today, executed perfectly.

Will it not be major awkward to have the Olympic anthem (whatever that is) and Olympic flag for either of the Russian girls during the medal ceremony?

The Russians keep churning out these young women who win everything for 1-2 seasons and then basically disappear.

I've never been so uninterested in the gold/silver race. I don't enjoy watching either Medvedeva or Zagitova with their sloppy awkward choreography. The killer jumps just don't make up for it.

R502...Tuktamysheva had to have been on something. She had an injury and then came back the year after and had this truly amazing year with Triple Axels and more...and then crashed. Was she on Meldonium and then had to stop taking it once it was banned? The dates would kind of work.

She was 18 when she won Worlds...not some girl who hadn't fully hit puberty. She sucked before. She sucked after. It's hard for me to believe she was clean.

I also loved Chen Lu's Last Emperor Program.

[quote]Will it not be major awkward to have the Olympic anthem (whatever that is) and Olympic flag for either of the Russian girls during the medal ceremony?

No.

R504, one of my all-time favorite programs! The music was from Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind.

yeah Tuk was on meldonium she even said it herself. Tbh the use of meldonium in Russian sports was so widespread that some of those people didn't even question it and genuinely used it as a banal supplement.

R509 For some reason, I never liked that program. The music cuts made it so choppy and the choreography felt forced and affected (in a Jane Austen way). I'm still one of those who think she got robbed the next year, though. It's amazing what music and better choreography can achieve.

I loved that program at R509.

R512 Ah, meldonium! I laugh every time Sharapova loses, because she was on it for 10+ years and now she's struggling.

And then Chen Lu changed the order of her name to the western Lu Chen

R497 Mirai has 2 3A's in her program???? Has she EVER been able to land them both cleanly?

Where's a metal crowbar and a crazy husband when you need them?

You can borrow my scissors!

R504, Chen Lu's music in her 1994 long program was from the soundtrack to "Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind," a 1984 Japanese animated film, which was composed by Japanese composer Joe Hisaishi (also known as Mamoru Fujisawa).

R517, actually I'm not sure. I saw somewhere she might add a second 3A to make her long program more competitive. If she does her Miss Saigon program, she has a 2A-3T-2T combo right after the halfway point. If she changes it to a 3A-2T, she'd get a huge boost in points. Assuming she lands it, of course.

I haven't seen any talk of Mirai adding a second 3A. I don't believe she can do the jump in combo. I did see her trying to train Tano jumps last week but I don't think she's even going to try that.

^ Probably just idle chatter then.

Anyone who can bring AC/DC to the Olympics is a winner in my book:

Shifting the topic completely: I am intrigued by the fact that Soloviev liked this photo of Guillaume's (and many others).

This is interesting from someone who saw the FD live--

"I really believe that it’s them not doing the team event that lost them the gold. They would have taken the ice with a lot more confidence on the day had they performed their short under the olympic pressure once before. "

"When it comes to the fd - pc were a lot more confident when they took the ice as compared to the previous day, HOWEVER, there can be no comparison between the moments that were created. PC did not get a standing ovation, the program really did not give any impact - the moment pc created last year in Helsinki with their fd was so much stronger and you could feel it in the air - this was really not it. "

Sandra Bezic said the same thing about impact. That V/M were going to the Olympics with Fire and P/C were going with Air. And you can't beat Fire with Air.

Out of all the events, ice dancing is the one less about sport and more about entertainment - not that you don't have to be skilled, but without the jumps, you have to thrill the audience in another way. P/C's routine was very lyrical but V/M got the adrenaline going, feeding into the audience. That's what an Olympic program needs and it's why V/M are all over twitter with articles, memes and gifs bouncing around everywhere.

I'm not an ice dancing fan, so my opinion is admittedly worthless, but I really don't get the over the top reactions about V/M vs. P/C. Yes, there's shady judging and there has been for years. Yes, there's been many instances of egregious points boosting, but this just isn't one of them. The disagreement over who should have won is much more about stylistic differences than actual skills/content.

This reminds me of the 1994 pairs competition, Gordeeva/Grinkov vs. Mishkutenok/Dmitriev. Lots of strum and drag over the more technically perfect G/G winning over the more "passionate" M/D. When you have 2 near-perfect programs to choose from, it's going to come down to which style the judges prefer or which performance grabs them more at that moment.

[quote]Sandra Bezic said the same thing about impact. That V/M were going to the Olympics with Fire and P/C were going with Air.

Of course she said that. Where is she from again?

Are people still trying to spin it, even now?

Is it part of a coverup?

Strapgate?

[quote]Gordeeva/Grinkov

Speaking of undeserving cheaters...

We just posted a new video with our dogs. Go to see it on our insta

R527- Oh, she's from Canada - she's also the one who did Brian Boitano's program when he won against Orser.

I still think she makes a good point. V/M were able to get a reaction for their Mahler program because they had a revved up Canadian crowd behind them. If these Olympics had been held in France, P/C would have gotten a bigger reaction from the audience.

It was the luck of the draw.

[quote]I, Tessa

Did someone call?

I don' t care about the reaction from the public

Tuktamysheva was a jumping robot at a very young age who couldnt go to sochi because of her age. She then grew hips and disappeared then came back and won worlds. She is still around and has been consistent, she just pales in comparison to medvedeva. I personally would have liked to watch elena radionova who looks normal and skates like a human instead of a robot but there is no way she would be able to compete with eteri's meldonium machines.

Have any of you skating superfans watched Tessa and Scott's reality show?

I was just trying to help with her costume, in the Olympic spirit!

R536- I saw clips of it. They're cute together, so sue me. WTH was Marina taking that dog all over the place? And I didn't realize that Tessa was so insecure. They didn't have to say it, you could see it in her eyes - she really thought she was doing everything wrong. That's kind of sad. No wonder she went to puke in the bathroom afterwards.

Freeskate about to start.

Homophobe Hamilton thinks Zagitova will be too tough to beat. Belbin thinks Medvedeva has a good chance to overake her with her component scores.

How come no one thinks Marie France didn't snip? She was hopping and jumping around to V/M's program like they were her kids.

In the streaming broadcast they made it a point to say that the venue for Figure Skating has been packed... um. Haven't we all seen that that's been the opposite?

Paganini’s dress looks gorgeous

Yeah, why so many empty seats, the whole time except for when Hanyu was there?

Why does the ice sound extra crispy tonight? It's giving me fingers on chalkboard vibes. *Shudders*

That BEL girl is FAB!

Weird that the Korean girl is skating to, "Winner Takes it All..." I thought it was a strange and awful pick when Mirai skated to it... surprised anyone else would.

[quote]and guess what nathan chen is breaking down, came and went nowhere but eteri's girls keep on going and going until 2 to 3 years, never getting injured just like robots. They arent any different than iphones and their battery.

Never getting injured? What are you talking about? Evgenia just lost half a season because she was injured. Polina Tsurskaya has been injured, Anna Scherbakova broke her leg.

How do I donate some legs to this Korean dwarf?

Paganini is another uber-rich kid who couldn't hack it in the US so she switched her citizenship to Switzerland. If you think the Shibs have money, it's nothing compared to Daddy Warlocks Paganini. Not that there is anything wrong with money, but she skated for the US and wasn't good enough to compete with the top girls, so took an easier way to get to the Olympics. I am sure a lot of talented US skaters who are far better than her wish they could have done the same.

*Daddy Warbucks lol

Mirai better do her 2 3A if she can do it. It's not like she's gonna get the bronze with her current program anyway unless Osmond, Kostner, and the 2 Japanese splatted so she should go for it. Might even get some headlines for it.

Let's face it, Mirai gave her only good skate to the team event. At the time, I presciently had said what a waste it was for Mirai to give that performance then, but another insightful poster noted that the team event was likely Mirai's best chance at a medal, so it wasn't such a waster. I think that person was right. Mirai got her medal, she's not really bronze caliber, and that's that.

This Hungarian girls needs a new choreographer. Hated the AC/DC number.

That Chinese' skate is so boring. And another Carmen, great!

Mirai can't do 2 3As. I don't know where anyone would get the idea that she can.

FINALLY a skater smart enough to use Carmen.

R552 you're welcome.

But then again none of the people vying for Bronze are Bronze caliber.

Don't tell me it's prime time again?!!?

Hello! Anybody out there?

Lol Kurt Browning was commenting earlier on the Phantom music, then on Winner Takes it All. He's just speechless about the Carmen.

R557 yes, thank you!

Not PrimeTime... yet. ...but it's also the earlier sessions. Nobody cares.

But WHEN will someone skate to Romeo and Juliet???

Sorry, my page hadn't updated with all the new comments.

☺️☺️

It's Moulin Rouge this year instead of Romeo and Juliet R563

[quote]It's Moulin Rouge this year

Thanks to ME.

Often imitated... never duplicated.

I missed the nights of pairs skating, is it available anywhere online?

There's nothing as original as a Russian skating to Swan Lake.

R567:

They really need to get rid of allowing vocals. If they can't convey emotion without it they should be deducted for it.

Thanks so much for the link,, R569!

I will go and check it out.

They should also give a deduction for wearing gloves.

Poor Elizabet with her famewhore mother.

This commentator from Aus on the livecast is sort of stupid.

She's talking about the girl from Finland who did her first 5 jumps in the first minute and said that if skaters are back loading why isn't it okay to front load and get the same points?

I was going to say that this Kailani girl is obviously a whore...

And of course it turns out she's skating to Moulin Rouge!

I warned that rich bitch not to pop her jumps and she still did! At least she has her daddy’s Olympics medals to play with at home.

There's all those fabulous blue colors once again. 😍😍😍

WHo robbed my Swarovski supply?!?!?!?

^I was just wondering when the blue troll would arrive!

Aww, don't call me a troll. 😧

It's my favorite color!

The audience is stingy with their applause,

The laides first 2 groups are just embarrassingly bad.

Cliche music choices, horrible skating.

Why was ice dance so much better?

R580 I say it with love.

[quote]The audience is stingy with their applause,

What audience?

Did Tara really have both hips replaced??

Finally a shot of Yu-Na Kim in the arena

Tara didn't have hip replacements. I believe she had hip surgeries.

How do y'all feel about all these technically Americans skating for other countries??

I think it's perfectly fine for them to look elsewhere for their chance. For whatever reasons the US skate team has their favorites and since they can't find an "in" they go elsewhere to make their dreams come true. Of course it helps that a lot of these girls have parents that are foreign born.

M'eh. I mean, no matter what they're stuck knowing they had to do that because they weren't good enough to compete for the US... which is saying a lot the way the US program is.

Was it appropriate for that German girl to skate to music from Schindler's List?

US Group up next.

Ugh, the NbC coverage is way behind.

We'll be here all night.

Link to new thread for when this one maxes out.

I guess none of the ladies are going to take a knee?

NBC isn't showing the skating live? I'm so confused.

If those girls can qualify (e.g. most of the time by being champions in their countries) then I have no problem with it. It's not like the field is so deep anyway and it's nice to see the other countries represented instead of the usual Russia/US/Japan/Canada.

You can watch it on the CBC website R595. Requires a VPN if you're not a Canadian cunt; I use Touch VPN on Chrome (free).

I think NBC is showing it delayed, So we will have to watch the ones we've already seen. The final group will likely start at 10:30.

NBC edits for American and American-adjacent performances in the earlier groups.

Why couldn’t Evgenia Babasyan have skated for us?

Johnny's pompadour has taken a decided 1050's turn tonight.

1950s

The only thing I don't like about it is that 99% of the time, the girls are not really very good skaters so what are they actually bringing. I get that there is a lot of bureaucracy, but's not like they are top 10 in the senior women's national level in their home country and just missed out on an olympic spot. And it's not like they are going to spark an ice skating revolution in the countries they transfer to because they don't live or train there. I would rather the number of spots be extended for existing countries to ensure the best skaters are represented.

Link to new thread.