Just Did Our Taxes and I’m PISSED

Start a Gstaad-based foundation for - anything, darling - rescuing the donkeys of Andalusia.

Happy, happy, happy!

I’m crying as I type.

I never understood why married home owners benefit single people who rent.

I know that they put the tax exemption in to stimulate home building which stimulates the economy and promotes "the family" - but more people are renting and single now than ever, and we're penalized? How nice.

And they think they have it rough in Yemen.

If you max out the taxes taken out, you wont get a big refund. Duh.

R5. That makes no sense. If you withhold more taxes, you’d have more refunded to you after deducting things like mortgage interest, property taxes, etc.

The goal is to not have a fat refund. You're just loaning the government money. $350 owed is not bad. If you cannot afford it, then you need to scale back on all of your expenses.

You also realize that you can do your taxes at any time throughout the year if you want to? That way you can get a good idea of what your tax liability will be and make adjustments as necessary.

Its not absolute. Depends on the amount. They didnt have a full year with a mortgage. All bets are off next year anyway.

The year before that 2016, we only had 6 months mortgage and I made less income and we got $6,000 back.

So if this is a full year “baseline”, then next year afte the billionaires tax cut will be even more brutal. We are in a high tax state and won’t be able to deduct about $12,000 of state and local taxes next year.

R3 it’s middle class welfare, the seceret of America’s post WW2 success was that everyone got welfare in one way or another. The poor got cash subsidies that made being poor less miserable; the middle class got benefits through housing and employment and the rich got corporate welfare. We’ll we’ve cut taxes and benefits for the poor. The rich will never give up their welfare so that means farewell to the middle class American dream.

I'm estimating a tax bill of about $25,000 to $30,000 above what I've already paid in. I did some stock trading this year and did very well. Short term trades are taxed same as income. If I lost money I would only be able to claim $3,000 a year in losses.

Two high earners are better off being single (NOT Married-Filing Separate) than being married an filing a joint return. Have you never heard of "the marriage penalty?"

I'm a 1099 "employee" and I always owe taxes. I'm going to have to find a full-time regular job . (Work from home now.) I'm depressed about it. I hate income tax.

OP, you've got a partner, some dough, and (one hopes) your health. STFU.

R12 can we do that? File single if we e

^^sorry hit Post by accident. Can we file single if we are married?

Stopped reading at $200,000.00 income.

Miss, I have problems of my own.

r15 Of course not.

[quote] The year before that 2016, we (the OP) only had 6 months mortgage and I made less income and we got $6,000 back.

If they got back $6000 in 2016 on 6 months mortgage and taxes and this year they have 12 month mortgage and taxes, that would mean a bigger deduction. The thing that is causing the more taxes is the fact that the OP made more income this tax year. While he doesn't tell us how much more, the income is the only thing that would make their taxes higher.

So boo hoo, you made more, probably much more and didn't adjust your withholding. The tax rates didn't change, just your income level.

Consider changing your W4 designation to “married, but withhold at the higher single rate”.

OP = Republican

"The reason home ownership is called 'The American Dream' is because you have to be asleep to believe it."

America, where ironically the comedians speak more truth than the politicians.

Just wait until the GOP tax law kicks in next year...

^ Right. And no matter what, the deplorables still will not blame Trump.

[quote] We made a combined income of $200,000

per year or month. If year then namaste to you dear op and look into being self-made and lifestyle blogging.

don’t y’all know who OP is?

someone who hates taxes that just got married about a year and a half or so ago.

R9/OP "The year before that 2016" was still under Obama's policies.

Live in a blue state?

only the little people pay taxes

Don’t be so fucking stupid OP. You are retarded.

Are you in NY state?

Did you remember to write off your mortgage interest AND your property taxes?

I haven't filed my taxes since 2009. So in settling my late parents estate, I figured now was as good a time as any to see how much I owe. So far, it's not as bad as I'd expected. I've only received Notice of Assessments for the half the years in question, and I've had to pay almost the same amount as I've got back in various refunds or credits.

If you have combined income of $200k, you need to pay up like other rich people.

Have a few kids.

[quote]Just wait until the GOP tax law kicks in next year...

Actually, you won't have to wait that long. The new withholding tables (based on the new law) should be in effect very soon.

I betting OP is in NJ, where property taxes aren't high, they are outrageous. If you live within an hour's drive to NYC in a nice, clean, safe area with good schools, the property taxes are so exorbitant it's like paying two mortgages every month.

Getting a huge refund is bad, OP... it means you lent the government money interest free.

You're doing the best when you have to pay a very small amount.

Just consider it the $350 lesson and going forward know that the government is all for themselves which means they are not for us.

OP is obviously telling us only part of the story.

I just do not believe he’s maxing out on withholding yet owes money this year. He’s either lying or doesn5 know what he’s doing.

Btw, anyone making 200k a year should get a professional to do their taxes.

The mortgage interest deduction is a joke, unless you have a jumbo loan. I always end up taking the standard deduction, even though I pay about 3k/year property taxes. In other words, there is no apparent benefit for me, tax-wise.

Whatever your gross income is, assume at least 1/3 of that amount will go to some form of taxes.

Combined federal and state = $1294 refund this year.

[quote]Actually, you won't have to wait that long. The new withholding tables (based on the new law) should be in effect very soon.

My company started using the new tax tables last week. The IRS recommends implementing them by mid February.

When will people learn that the amount of your refund or the amount that you owe means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING? The only figure that has any significance is your TAX LIABILITY.

OP here. The year before, I was unemployed for most of it due to husband’s job transfer. 2017 I worked all year and our combined income was $203k.

We did deduct mortgage interest AND property taxes. Total taxes paid was $40,000. Yet after all the deductions for the above, we still owe money. We live in New York, hence the high property taxes.

I guess I’m relieved it’s a nominal amount that we owe, but after getting large refunds in the past, and withholding more from our salaries to ensure we won’t owe, I’m just surprised. We don’t need a professional to do our taxes because they’re pretty simple; TurboTax is pretty thorough for what limited deductions we have; nothing complicated. When I had a business a few years ago, using a CPA made sense.

Many are going to get a surprise when that 2016 Obamafine they didn't pay (for not having insurance in 2016) comes out of their refund this spring.

I condol you, OP. No matter what, nobody likes to pay more in taxes than they expected. Sometimes, people think that wealthy people shouldn’t be frugal. I hate that. I work hard for my money and I don’t like spending it frivolously.

It looks like my Federal income taxes for 2017 will be about $100. I have a lot of deductions, and my income is mostly long term capital gains, which are taxed at 0% for taxable income below $37,950.

My husband and I are thinking about getting divorced because of the tax ramifications. We are in our 60s, but the govt. is still after us. I make a 7th of what my spouse makes.

R50 what do you mean the govt is after you?

In New Jersey, you are supporting two school systems at the same time: your local one and Newark, Camden, Etc.

[quote] Btw, anyone making 200k a year should get a professional to do their taxes.

Tax professionals use the same tax software that is available to you and me. Tax professionals are worthwhile if you have different sources of income, own lots of property and/or are self-employed -- and that's only because you may need to keep track of certain expenses or liabilities year over year. Otherwise just get the software and you're set.

Did you max out all pre-tax retirement accounts? That should bring your AGI down a bit. Between that, mortgage interest, property and state taxes, I can still use the itemized deductions.

Marriage penalty sucks for Gays and Lesbians with no kids. I'd bet the Repugs would have embraced gay marriage long ago if someone told them we'd end up paying more.

I’m a Democrat but people on this site would claim I’m a rethug because I really feel that the upper middle class is way over taxed. I have no children, live in a condo in manhattan (so I don’t really cost the government much) and pay over 40% income tax, plus property tax, plus mortgage tax, plus sales tax, plus whatever else the government takes from me. That comes to several $100,000/year to uncle same. On top of this, I’m paying more than $1000/month for student loans and they’re not tax deductible. I think there should be a cap on how much individuals pay in taxes. I cost the government much less than someone with 2 kids in the suburbs who is probably paying ~30% in taxes, much less total sum, and costs the country more in services.

r50 If you make that much less than your spouse, it seems like you'd be better off being married (for tax purposes.)

R55, I'm perfectly fine with the rate at which you are tasked from the sounds of it.

Grow up, OP.

At least your hubby didn't pay off his adult film star fling he had while you were together

[quote]Two high earners are better off being single (NOT Married-Filing Separate) than being married an filing a joint return. Have you never heard of "the marriage penalty?"

No, that's a bit of a myth. I temp yearly at a tax office, and the most over-hyped filing status is "married-filing-separately", for this main reason: Many credits and deductions are income-based, meaning they are phased out as one's income rises. So, if you are filing MFS, NONE of these is available to you by dint of choosing that filing status because you are not really declaring your income together as one total. It does away with that sort of cheating basically with one earner earning very little and receiving the highest deductions and credits while the spouse is actually a high earner. Since you claim you are both high earners, than the AMT (Alternative Minimum Tax) would likely hit you both separately anyway. It is reasonable to file MFS if a couple keeps basically separate fiscal responsibilities or doesn't want to be indebted with their spouse's high tax liability.

Generally, the loss of income-based (phased out) credits and deductions does not make MFS an overall great option as often as one might think..

Furthermore, I can guess the reason you didn't get a windfall of a deduction is because you hit the AMT earnings threshold as a couple ( and likely would have as individual filers). That threshold does away with almost ALL previously allowed deductions other than charitable donations (@50%). Thus your mortgage interest and SALT are no longer deductible expenses.

r55, you pay several hundred thousand dollars a years in taxes plus $12k in student loans?

You need to post a thread.

1/10

What about all the money the government pumped into researching antiretrovirals which you benefit from? What about all the roads you drive on and don't pay for? You're taxes don't make up for those two things much less all else.

As for me? Well I give out more in tips than you'll ever pay in taxes.

R47, the new tax bill eliminated the insurance mandate, effective immediately.

R55, fyi if you pay a lot of taxes, it means you are making a lot of money. MARY!

R55 unfortunately , you are in the demographic Dems or R's both are going to sock it to. Lose Lose, but you are living in a Manhattan condo which many would die for, so there's that. Find a low income spouse to marry , LOL! that would help a little

I wish there was a way to help deduct expenses for helping out extended family. I think we spent at least 10-15 K last year helping people out. I did not track it, and do not expect to get any of it back. Money well spent as long as it helps folks stay afloat and independent. But it'd be nice to have it count on taxes.

You probably jumped brackets. 25% to 28% tax rate. Right around $150,000 it jumps. That 3% difference can be a lot. If you get just barely pushed up over a bracket it sucks. That bonus or salary increase is eaten up in taxes.

And add me to the list of those who feel like upper middle incomes get the shaft. Not wealthy enough to have creative tax shelters, etc. but too wealthy to get any deductions. $200,000 is not a huge amount of money in many places.... and even if it is, why are people penalized for working hard and pushing towards greater success? I work my ass off to have $40,000 taken from me each year by the government— a government who will then spend it irresponsibly and without thought. In-laws have a persecution complex and never manage to work for more than a few months a year (because someone disrespected them or they just didn’t feel like going anymore) — they get a $13,000 “refund” because they work just enough to claim the earned income, etc. but not enough to try to truly improve their lives or the lives of their children. They are not disabled or intellectually handicapped or underemployed. They’re just lazy.

I’m all about being charitable and helping people improve their lives. I’d even be ok contributing to a national college fund (with a gpa requirement) —- but taxes should be a flat tax, no deductions.

You're in the marriage trap OP! We are too. There's no way around it unless you divorce.

r60 I didn't say anything about MFS. What I said is that two high income people are better off filing a SINGLE (assuming they're not married, of course) than jointly. That's what the marriage penalty is about. MFS is almost always the worst filing status. And this is one of the many reasons that people need to do some research and make an informed decision about whether or not to get married, now that it's available to us.

When I was working, I paid a pretty steady 19% in Federal income tax, plus 5.3% state income tax. R55, I think you could pay less, if you got some expert help.

Also, if you pay several $100,000 in taxes a year (that’s $300,000 or more), and it’s 40% of income ($750,000 or more), you are not upper middle class. You are above 99.7% of all income earners. That’s close to the top 1% of the top 1%.

R71,

I make less than you quote, but it’s in the ballpark. I thought I was in the top 3% of earners when i checked a while ago, but I could be wrong. I don’t “feel” wealthy at all. Maybe it’s because my training was so long, so I was making VERY little for about a decade as my student loan interest accrued.

Since I am honest with my tax returns, I pay slightly over $200,000/year in income tax alone. My accountant tries to stretch my deductions, but I don’t feel comfortable lying about it, so I never let him exaggerate.

Regardless of the exact amount I am taxed, I feel I am grossly overpaying my debt to society for the privilege of living in the United States.

I’m always tempted to cheat, but I wouldn’t be comfortable with a big cheat, and a small cheat isn’t financially worth enough to risk the consequences of being caught.

Sometimes I claim medical expenses that aren’t eligible, but only because I have expenses that I think ought to be covered and I get mad that that are not eligible. But I don't just cheat without a rationale. .

I believe the mandate repeal went into effect in 2018. On this years tax forms they are sill issuing penalties for it.

By this year, I men this filing year, 2017.^^

We're actually going to do better on our taxes. Maybe we're rich? Doesn't seem like it.

I am pissed, too, but at TurboTax, not at the government.

I am single and I rent and I am lazy and hate tedious processes, so I just take a standard deduction to get the tax paperwork over with. TurboTax used to be very turbo for this. Over the years the process has become laborious, and this year was worse than ever.

First, it imported all of last year’s stuff as usual. Fine. Nothing changed except a slight income boost. I revise the numbers from the W-2 boxes. Then TurboTax makes me review them again and sign off. Then it checks for errors and decides I should itemize this year. WTF? I click through tedious pages and then it says I have to review everything again. Then it says it has reviewed my taxes and recommends the standard deduction...! Then all over again for state. Then I have to review again. Then it tries to upsell me and I decline. Then it makes me review AGAIN and tells me to upsell. Then it makes me enter the same bank account information twice, for federal and state, and then tries to upsell me again for audit protection. Then I have to enter my driver’s license number and expiration date—and then it tries to upsell me AGAIN. Then I am finally done and it tries to upsell me on ID theft and credit monitoring. This is bullshit. It’s like buying a used car.

$200,000.00 per year OP....

That means that you are in the top 1.5% of income earners in the US OP. Don't you think you better just shut the fuck up?

R72 Come to Europe and see what you’ll pay. Sorry I’m usually sympathetic but you’re living in a Manhattan condo earning 600,00 ish- if you have problems the rest of the world should just go kill themselves. I think it’s time to really start being appreciative for the life you have. There are billions of people who would genuinely give up their firstborn for a chance (not even a guarantee) at what you have.

For comparison I earn €43,000 and some of the income falls into the top tax band of 44%, the rest is at 22% and I still have to pay my income health insurance because I am above the threshold for free medical care. BUT I have a roof over my head, I eat well, I take 2 overseas vacations a year and I have my health so I have no complaints at all.

R78 The more mass a planet has, the more it takes from the universe. Law of gravitational attraction that also applies to wealth: The wealthier a person is, the greedier he becomes, feeling like he deserves not just more than everyone, but actually everything from everyone.

See also: POTUS.

I think it’s possible you are genuine and you don’t feel wealthy. You likely live in a bubble where your coworkers earn the same, your neighbors are big earners. I assume your family or you would have zero doubt that 750,000 is 10 years salary for most people. Yes you studied hard and worked hard but you are incredibly fortunate and by American standards you are VERY wealthy, by worldwide standards you are OBSCENILY wealthy. If I had any advice it would be to get out of your bubble, do a road trip through small town America, volunteer overseas. Talk to the women who clean your office. I say this not out of hate but because I am truly sorry for you that you are not enjoying your great fortune in life and feel you are not wealthy and being taken advantage of by the government. That’s not right. It sounds like financial dismorphia.

Insightful, R81.

Thank you R81,

I am extremely grateful for my life. I come from a very humble upbringing and never expected to earn as much as I do. It’s not because anything was ever handed to me though, it took many sacrifices to get to the point where I am, and many would not think it was worth it.

I have to help my sibling’s family because they are struggling. I have to admit, I sometimes feel resentful because they have easy jobs below their capabilities, work far too few hours, never would even consider working nights or weekends, and depend on me for support. As someone who has worked my ass off my entire life, it stings to give them money just for them to tell me “we are sleeping in today”, we’re planning on having another baby, etc.

I understand that we should all pay our share of taxes. What I don’t like is that the super rich find ways to avoid paying theirs and that the system is set up so hard workers get screwed. In Europe, everyone pays the same percentage. That seems more reasonable to me.

Nope R72/R83 In Europe everyone does not pay the same percentage. “Europe” is not a country but I’ve lived in 4 European countries and never encountered a flat rate tax system thank God. A flat rate would be deeply unfair to low earners and would let the wealthy away with murder. My low rate of tax is 22%, my high rate is 44% and yes I pay water charge and health insurance and property tax too. And my property and water and also not flat rates again thank god they are based on usage and property value, that way it is fair to all. I know 200,000 is an eye watering tax bill but you’re still taking home twice that. You’re just not getting how wealthy that makes you. If you can’t make it on that there’s no hope for anybody. Seriously salaries like that are unheard of here. Presidents don’t earn that much. If a couple taking home 75,000 can raise 2 kids, have a vacation every year, pay a mortgage and still be happy you need a serious readjustment. And no you won’t get any sympathy from 99.7% of people.

Stop paying for your family. You are enabling them. However, there’s more to life than work and money. Nobody will think of either on their death bed. I think they should enjoy weekends with their kids, I think it’s perfectly fine to only work to live but not with you footing the bill. Cut them off, they’ll figure it out, you’ll get the chip off your shoulder and everyone will be better off in the long run.

No flat rate tax in Ireland either. I think it would bankrupt the country. I’m also genuinely gobsmacked that anyone can earn so much they have a tax billl of 200,000. It’s impossible to earn that much money here as an employee. I guess the American dream is still alive for a few people anyway. Here I was feeling jealous of OPs wages until I read that post!

A friend of mine in Austria said they have a flat tax (percentage) so I assumed that’s how the entire EU was structured. I suppose each country decides for itself.

Rents are so low where she lives, that I imagine property taxes are fairly low too, or landlords would be losing money.

From my perspective, Europeans benefit from the money they give their government. I don’t see many benefits for me. All I can think of is trash pick up, the subway, national security, and educating the masses (although they don’t seem to be doing a tremendous job with that one!).

“hard workers get screwed” “the masses”

Oh dear. You are not getting screwed by a long shot. And if you don’t start seeing that you are going to be a hard right Republican by the 2020 election if you aren’t already. I second, third and fourth the suggestion to go travel or ask your cleaning lady about her life or the immigrant driving your cab and you’ll see people who have been screwed in ways you cannot imagine since the day they were born and still get up, shut up and hope someday their ship will come in. We all wish we had your problems. With every post you seem more like a giant, obnoxious, entitled jerk who is not nearly as smart as he thinks he is.

OP, it's call higher tax bracket than last year, or your situation triggered AMT.

R86 Please stop with this generic “Europeans” business. You are in a total victim mindset. I will gladly swap my Irish passport for your American one. If you are like this now I don’t want to meet you after 12 months in a European country. I thought you were genuine but you’re either a troll or you have the rock of Gibraltar on your shoulder. Good night.

I suppose I struck a nerve and people decided I am evil without having any idea how much of myself I dedicate to charitable causes. The difference is that in those situations, I decide how my time and money are spent, not corrupt politicians who don’t give a shit about their constituents.

For the record, I never claimed I am smart or an expert on European countries. I just shared some anecdotes and happen to think the places I have visited there are lovely, college education is nearly free, there are plenty of free ciltural events, etc. From what I understand, their governments spend MUCH less on military, political waste, and so on.

I’ll take the hint and stop posting.

Oh fuck OFF, R90. Jesus.

I just filed my 2017 tax return and am getting about $14K back compared to about $9K last year. I need to change my withholding rate!

You definitely do. You should shoot for as near zero back as possible.

r93 Exactly right -- plus or minus a couple hundred bucks is OK.

Yes, normally that is the goal, R93 and R94. I purchased a second residence and my deductions were much higher (mortgage interest and property taxes) and I maxed out my 401K contributions (which reduces taxable income in the current year). I didn't change my deductions via a revised W-4 because I never got around to calculating how many exemptions to claim to get to about the right place. I figured I would have a year of "forced savings" LOL.

i usually do my taxes. i'm poor so i always use 1040EZ. this year, i won some money and now have to file regular form. ughhh....

That sounds wrong, OP.

Is there any guidance on how to do a W-4 for 2018? With the elimination of personal exemptions and a lot of itemized deductions, along with the increase in the Standard Deduction, how are we supposed to calculate what should be withheld?

US taxes fund US military which is essentially world military. Yes, Europe gets to spend far less on the military today because of the US. Just ask Ukraine, outside of NATO and other security pacts, about the alternative. Or Georgia.

The US does benefit immensely from a peaceful world, even if we bear the lion’s share of the expense. Peace is always cheaper than the alternative.

R83, are you maxing out your 401ks and any HSAs? This will reduce your taxable income? Are you maxing out your Roth IRAs? You need this money to help manage your income in retirement.

If you aren't doing this then quit funding your deadbeat relatives and start maxing out your retirement accounts.

Thanks for the advice R100

I am self employed, so 401K is out of the question. I also think I earn too much for a Roth IRA. As far as I know, the limit for a traditional IRA is about $6000/year, which really won’t save me that much. Admittedly, my financial knowledge is very limited- I will check with my financial advisor to see what else can be done.

Ok, r101, now I am mad. You need to pay attention to your own financial health and quit giving your money away. What will happen to you if you can no longer work? Don't you want to be able to retire someday?

If your financial adviser isn't a fee ONLY financial adviser, then find one who is. Commission based financial advisers will rip you off. Besides, they should already have told you about your options to invest. Whatever you do, do NOT buy an annuity. If you want one down the road research Vanguard's SPIA.

I'm posting a link to an investment vehicle you may qualify for.

Best of luck to you.

Same thing here in Norway.. the CONS in charge are conning people. They won the election by promising tax cuts for everyone. They did change the taxes on income, but they increased the taxes on other stuff. That means people with a normal income have to pay more taxes. I'm not exactly surprised, I never voted for them.

Ah yes, the US is the keeper of peace wordwide, all at taxpayers’ expenses!!

(Pay no attention to the unmanned airplane dropping bombs on Middle Eastern school children...)

R104, that is awful. But would you prefer to live in Poland before 1989? Or Hungry? Or Vietnam? Or Dresden? How about Georgia, today? Or the Crimea?

R102, you’re absolutely correct. Lesbians usually are ;)

I really work A LOT and DL is my quick break between tasks. I will put in some time to get my finances in order.

Thanks again!

[quote] R90: I suppose I struck a nerve and people decided I am evil without having any idea how much of myself I dedicate to charitable causes. The difference is that in those situations, I decide how my time and money are spent, not corrupt politicians who don’t give a shit about their constituents.

I don’t think you’re evil, R90, but in a Democracy, we don’t get to decide exactly where all our tax dollars are spent.

Can you imagine, if you left Podunk, Texas, and drove Rt. 66 to NYC, and 4 or 5 days later, you finally arrive, maybe, and it’s just as crappy as the place you left, and every place you passed through? People didn’t volunteer to pay for the interstate. Or the Polio vaccine, NYC subway, Et cetera.

You're a doll, r106!

I just found this link on the retirement thread. It is well worth watching. It takes us from the days of pensions to where we are now. It zeros into how we are being ripped off by the finance industry and shows us the best way to invest.

They interview a lovely gay couple in this too.

The one problem it doesn't address I'd what to do if you have crappy choices in your 401k. My spouse's 403b fees were so high that we invested in index funds in a taxable account (there was no matching).

Do yourselves a favor and watch this from start to finish or at least from 20 minutes in to the end.