Poz undetectable

you folks are all whorish sluts. use condoms you disease bags!

Would you hook up with that guy and have unprotected sex?

Thanks r1 that’s helpful🙄

Yes, OP they do. If you resist you are labeled an ignorant hater, and worse!

Nobody EVER asks HIV negative guys how they remain so because as we know, THEY ARE THE PROBLEM!!

Condoms are EVIL !

If a guy's profile says he's undetectable, he might be.

If a guy's profile says he's on PrEP, he might be.

If a guy's profile says he's negative, he probably isn't.

If a guy's profile says he's "poz" (no +/u or mention of undetectability), he probably doesn't "believe" in meds & has a viral load that's one pneumonia infection away from literal AIDS.

Wrap it up Op...For God's sake Wrap It Up!!!

I see your point, but I think it's good they put POZ undetectable, because someone just might not know what undetectable means and adding another qualifier isn't hurting anything, it may be a bit redundant, but when dealing with HIV, better to be redundant than sorry.

Assume everyone is contagious as hell and act accordingly.

I found out I was Poz September 23, 2013. I was on meds 3 weeks later (longest 3 weeks of my fucking life).

Likely infected May/June 2013 (I had a mysterious flu for 2 weeks).

I was undetectable by February 2014 and have remained so since. Checkups every 4 months.

Since going on my meds, I've missed maybe a dozen doses and by some miracle of the delivery service my pharmacy uses, I have 4 months of pills stockpiled in case of an emergency.

r9

I agree, I don't care what anyone tells me because they are as likely lying as not, so assume they are.

I don't care if you say you're undetectable or on enough PrEP to protect an army of bareback sluts, I'm still not fucking you without a condom.

HIV/AIDS organizations are run by HIV-positive men. They set the priorities.

Since the 1990's, their priorities have been the "cocktail" and reducing HIV stigma. Their ad campaigns spent millions to convince young gay men Poz guys are hot and fuckable.

Erased from the agenda? Research for a cure. Research for a vaccine. Medication for the rest of your life is a far more lucrative profit stream. HIV prevention activists are nearly all in bed with Gilead, the makers of Truvada.

HIV/AIDS organizations are hellbent on telling young gay men that "HIV undetectable" men are safe and if you take "PreP" there's zero chance of contracting HIV.

Personally, a strategy of condoms and sero-sorting has kept me negative since I became sexually active in the '90s. Use condoms and avoid sex with HIV-pos guys (even if they tell you that they're "undetectable.") It works!

Dear [R13] an estimated 20% of people with HIV in the US are unaware they have it. They are FAR more dangerous than anyone who is undetectable.

Reducing stigma reduces transmissions.

Just masturbate to porn

Condoms PLUS sero-sorting works.

Young gay men need to be told to use condoms, and even with condoms avoid sex with poz guys.

Our current "reduced stigma" environment is what has young guys deluged with 60 second bareback porn clips on Tumblr. It's a constant indoctrination of dicks going into asses with condoms. And unfortunately, "monkey see, monkey do." is why STD rates are skyrocketing.

I've even seen HIV-positive guys marketing themselves as "STD-free." Say what!?!

So, back to the OP's question ... "Poz undetectable" is an HIV-positive man with a significantly lower chance of infecting you in the extremely rare case of a condom failure. "Poz undetectable" also means that if you decide to date and eventually enter a relationship, your options will be limited unless you decide to go on a lifetime of medication, and still no 100% guarantee.)

That's usually what I do R15, it's not only way less dangerous but it keeps you from having to deal with assholes.

Of course you should still use condoms. Any idiot who thinks prep = bareback green card IS an idiot. There are dozens of other STDs besides HIV that Prep doesn't do shit about.

Prep works. Condoms work. Education works.

The only thing stigma does is discourage people from getting tested. If you don't get tested, you're "neg".

R10 How DARE you miss a dose. 12 doses missed. Who the hell do you think you are? You clearly ave no goddamned idea how fortunate you are to have access to anti-retrovirals. Have you any idea how many people the world over who have no access to this literal life saving and life changing treatment? Not to mention the tens of thousands of gay men who marched and fought for their lives; who had no goddamned hope on the horizon that something would come along any time soon, guys who held on in the vain hope that cure would come, and who would gladly swallow a dozen pills each and every hour of the day if it would give them even one more day of life? I suggest you make a point of going to see the next exhibition of the AIDS Quilt, and that you look at those photos of those men who dies of AIDS, think of them and offer them an apology for your incredible stupidity and thoughtlessness. Has it even occurred to you that missing doses is a sure fire way for the goddamned virus to mutate? If I ever find you, I'll give you such a hiding that you'll wish you were dead.

[R19]

K.

R10, thank you for sharing your story. It's hidden reality of PreP.

Many of the gay men we're trying to reach and protect are in unstable living conditions. When you're couchsurfing, disappearing on weekend drug binges, or just stuck at home and depressed, it's easy to miss a dose. The long-term effectiveness of PreP is unknown. What will the public health community be facing one decade after "HIV neg on PreP" guys have been swapping bodily fluids with "HIV poz undetectables"? We'll find out eventually.

I wonder if some guys who have sex with guys don't get tested because they think that HIV is a "gay disease" and they're in denial about being gay. A different kind of stigma at work.

Yeah...21, I wasn't on drug binges. It's called unexpectedly being away from home overnight and not having my pill baggy in my wallet.

R21 "When you're ... disappearing on weekend drug binges, it's easy to miss a dose." and "Many of the gay men we're trying to reach..."

You're in HIV prevention? Frankly I'd expect more that condoning getting chemmed up. You clearly have the IQ of an amoeba. If you had read the post R10 said he was poz, so he's clearly not on PreP. And as he said he wasn't on a drug binge. The vast majority of gay men are not drug users. R10/R23 use you watch pocket in your jeans to keep a couple of pills wrapped in a small plastic bag. Make a point of it so you'll always have your meds.

Hi [R24] I usually keep a small plastic bag with 3-4 pills in my wallet but on occasion I've forgotten and didn't expect to not come home that night.

> Medication for the rest of your life is a far more lucrative profit stream.

Bullshit. No matter HOW lucrative maintenance meds might be to "the industry" as a whole, ANY drug company would rather sell you a one-time cure that costs more than 20 years of maintenance therapy. Why?

1. Less business risk. A competitor could take away 99% of your market almost overnight with a new drug. Sell them a cure now, and pocket the cash in one big up-front lump sum.

2. Repeat business. If you cure someone's HIV today, they can get re-infected next week and you can sell them a cure all over again.

The fact is, if someone finds a real cure for HIV, it will give new shades of meaning to the word "profitable". For at least a few years, they'll be able to charge almost UNLIMITED amounts of money for it & neither governments nor health insurers will be able to say, "no, that's too expensive".

So no, there's no conspiracy to keep people infected. It's FAR more profitable to sell an immediate (and expensive) cure... especially if it leaves the door open to future repeat business.

The cocktail/not PreP, my mix-up in responding. I see R10 clarified that he was not on a drug binge. Good to know.

I raised the question of drug use because he admitted to missing a dozen doses since 2014. It's a higher-than-usual rate of slip-ups that usually comes from an unstable living condition and drug use is fair question. It's unfortunate that you take away from this fact that implication that "vast majority of gay men are drug users."

Good luck staying on track R10. And ignore R24's advice to store a couple of pills in your jeans. Get a proper case away from your body heat. Temperature and humidity are factors.

R24 Your health comes first. You might miss the bus, meet a hot guy, break a leg. When you leave the house, couple of pills in your pocket. Leaving house I always check I have my couple of pills in pocket, On same meds for 14 years, missed one dose when I had a migraine and was vomiting. Undetectable since week 3 of meds in all that time. Look after yourself.

21...how is 12 missed doses in 4 years (aka 3 a year) a HIGH rate of slipups? Human beings are quite fallible.

R26 I don't agree. In my kind opinion, my take is this: Let's say a drug company comes up with a cure, the cost for that single dose is $100,000. That company will be publicly outed and publicly shamed for the enormous cost. It's easier to stealth and charge them for a maintence drug, something they can never get off. Until something else comes along of course. Just my take on it.

Many gay men on hookup sites dont lie about their miscellaneous STIs and their current transmissibility. Other gay men with STIs are dumb or in denial. Other gay men with STIs don't know they have them. Other gay men with STIs lie.

Does this sum put the situation for you, dumbass OP? Do you know how to evaluate risk in life?

R9 has the best advice. Thank you.

[quote] ANY drug company would rather sell you a one-time cure that costs more than 20 years of maintenance therapy.

OK, R26, I'm listening to your argument. but I would expect the average young gay man would need to be on 40 years of maintenance therapy, not 20. The state of New York quotes one year of Truvada cost between $8,000 and $14,000. Multiplied by 40 years, that's between $320K and $560K, not adjusting for inflation.

Could the state of New York shell out half a million for every gay man in the state? Massive lump sums per person?

There's little reason to "miss a dose". If you take Truvada in the morning & get home in the afternoon following a night of hot sex, just take the fucking Truvada in the afternoon or evening when you finally get home, and take the next dose at your usual time. It's almost impossible to overdose on Truvada.

Likewise, if you're about to run out a few days before your next refill arrives, just stretch out your remaining doses and take one every 36 hours... it's not optimal, but it's FAR better than running out and going entirely without it for several days. Remember, Truvada doesn't prevent HIV from infecting a T-cell, it prevents it from being able to USE that T-cell to replicate and infect MORE cells. HIV infection starts out like a smoldering brush fire on damp leaves. The goal of PrEP is to keep HIV contained in any T cell it randomly infects until the cell dies on its own a few days later & gets disposed of. If you take reduced doses for TOO long, you'll eventually reach the tipping point & seroconvert... but a few days of metaphorical damp smoldering is still better than a few days of outright dry, windy weather.

[quote] 21...how is 12 missed doses in 4 years (aka 3 a year) a HIGH rate of slipups? Human beings are quite fallible.

It's an above average rate, believe it or not. At that rate we can expect some emotional or living issues are having an impact. For the most part, patients take their medication seriously.

It's ongoing issue in general, but people carry daily meds all the time, including inhalers, epi-pens, nitro-tablets, etc.

R29 Perhaps after you've watched people with AIDS shit their guts out, vomit till their stomachs almost come out of their mouth, get covered in KS, go blind from cat parasite infection of the brain, and go from a strapping 200 lbs to 90 lbs, then you'll understand why I'm so forceful about the issue of strict adherence to meds. And as R10/R25 said, he missed them because he was careless in his planning.

R33 All of which begs the question is it not time to remove the production patents from these companies and mass produce the generics once and for all.

r33: I said '20' because in all likelihood, any given patient with hiv will only be a customer for 10-20 years (at most) before some better (or cheaper generic) alternative becomes available. So if a company like Gilead can make an immediate one-time profit equal to what they'd have otherwise made in 7-10 years of maintenance therapy, they'll do it in a heartbeat. And if Gilead didn't want to sell a cure, you can bet J&J would LOVE to sell one & instantly scoop up all of Gilead's most profitable customers. Since Gilead can't risk J&J doing that, its only market strategy is to beat them to it and market a cure first, then flip the company to some venture capital firm and cash out.

Ugh... no. I've noticed a steady decline in how over the past several years in how people treat the seriousness of HIV/AIDS in favor of bareback sex. NO FUCKING WAY. Not in a casual hook-up. I can't stand condoms, but not going without for someone I don't know fairly well.

I'm not paranoid, and I don't think all casual hook-ups are just sluts riddled with disease. I am a slut from time to time, and I enjoy it. I'm not ashamed of it, and don't look down on anyone I'm fucking at random. For whatever reason have remained disease free. I get tested about once a year, depending on how active I've been. That's part protecting myself, and in large part protecting others. I can't imagine passing that shit onto someone else.

Idk. I was a teen in the 80s, and not real sexually active, but what I saw and grew up with has scarred me for life in terms of what that disease does. I don't look down on anyone who has it. No one deserves that disease. No one deserves any disease.

You mean "not really sexually active"

That what's creepy about PrEP, it keeps the virus from entering and hijacking cells to reproduce but you still have the virus In Your Body for a time! I'm a top and I still wouldn't risk fucking a guy without a condom and I certainly wouldn't feel safe fucking a guy at all that volunteered to let me blow my load in him.

R41, nothing creepy about it... an IUD used for female birth control works the same way... it basically allows an egg to become fertilized, then prevents the fertilized egg from implanting so her next period flushes it out.

In theory, if someone on PrEP did something COMPLETELY INSANE, like give himself an enema with cum from 100 guys with high viral loads, he could possibly seroconvert due to having SO MUCH HIV saturating his bloodstream at one time that his T cells can't HELP but notice... but AFAIK, this specific failure mode has never been documented in real life.

Ummm...R42 Last I heard sperm wasn't quite on par with a deadly virus whose sole purpose is to invade and destroy your body at the cellular level, So I'm gonna stick with my initial response.

R43 You clearly have little understanding of HIV.

I know one is a human cell and the other is a VIRUS.

R42, how can we thank you for that imagery?

R46 just for you

Emotionally, that video is horrifying.

Intellectually, it's pointless... the guys who came in the jar are almost certainly on meds & undetectable, and the recipient was probably already poz anyway.

HIV aside, TIM's videos suck anyway... haggard-looking guys, raunchy sex that's just plain gross, and poor videography & editing.

If you get a cold or flu with an undetectable HIV viral load, doesn't this allow HIV to multiply, despite meds? Maybe not... but I just heard that illness spikes HIV because infected t-cells are multiplying to kill whatever cold virus you have... though perhaps this was before the current generation of drugs.

Treasure Island Media has done a lot to perpetuate the idea that secretly poz guys want to infect other guys and force them to join the herd.

Hey [R49] I've had my share of colds since becoming poz. The first time was terrifying (obviously) but it passed like every cold before it and every cold since.

(R49) actually, its different parts of the immune system that fight hiv and colds and the flu, so it does not affect you and the meds you takes ability to fight the virus.

What R6 posted. A lot of people even those on PREP/Truvada don't even know if they are or are not HIV+ or do not have other STDs. I don't do hook ups anymore but when I did I just assumed that the men and women could be HIV+ and used condoms and had safer sex.

R10 how did you become HIV+ were you a bottom, raw top, sharing needles, or did you give oral sex when you had an open cut in your mouth?

After several conversations on Grindr this week, I told a guy I would only host tonite because I didn't want to go to his place (100+ blocks away) and he then admitted he was "poz, undetectable" and accused me of "labeling" him as "sick" after less than 10 minutes when I did not even respond to him saying he can't travel (and revealing his status). He then said I was "uninformed" and went off after I said I couldn't travel tonight because I had to work. Then, he blocked me. Not very illuminating, but true story.

[quote]wouldn’t he just say undetectable

No, because this guy is correct. He wants to give you AS MUCH INFORMATION as possible.

What you do is your business, but your partners have a duty to give you the correct info as well.

I emphasize with anyone with HIV but compassion can be misplaced, someone who goes around indiscriminately having sex and then winds up with HIV IS DIFFERENT from those who don't.

It would be like if I took a fistful of hundred dollar bills and walked around Central Park waving them about. If I get robbed, most people would say,, "Well what did you expect?" That doesn't mean the person deserves to get robbed, but the level of compassion is and should be different.

“I emphasize with anyone with HIV but compassion can be misplaced, someone who goes around indiscriminately having sex and then winds up with HIV IS DIFFERENT from those who don't.”

R55 No, they actually aren’t. I feel compassion for anyone who is infected with HIV and don’t care how they came about it. However, undetectable or yes, we aren’t fucking. Anyone who does that is an idiot. They don’t “deserve” a chronic, actually terminal illness. But, they are playing in traffic. Don’t give me your, “we are still just humans” shit about acceptable errors. Those errors are not acceptable and you could end up dead.

Missing 14 doses in 4 years is not crazy irresponsible. That averages to less than 4 times a year. Drugs have half lives. They are dosed so that the majority of the dose will be gone in one day, but there will ALWAYS be some drug left in your system after that. ALWAYS. Plus HAART is three or 4 different drugs working in different ways, so the way that the drug MIGHT mutate will be offset by the mutation it would need to make for the other drug. Missing one day every 3 months is not going to lead to break through. Not that you want to plan on missing those days, but you shouldn't panic. It even says in the literature that accompanies - "If you miss a dose, take your next dose as soon as possible, then get back on your usual regimen". Break through comes about when people stop taking meds for several days or weeks at a time. There are plenty of people like that. I have a friend that way. He works for an airline and likes to travel on the spur of the moment, often without planning out his drug doses . It took about three or four changes of drug regimen for his doctor to sit him down and read him the riot act about compliance.

R53FUCK OFF BI TROLL. Stop bumping all these threads about HIV. You are obsessed. What is it you want from us, or think yo will get out of bumping these old threads or making new ones and then saying the same shit over and over?I dont care if people bareback;I dont give a fuck as I wear a condom, so what they do is irrelvant to me. I take my own protection seriously, but why do you care? and why do you have to make everything about bisexuals as well. We dont give a fuck.

R57 Likes to travel on the spur of the moment? Fuck your friend. He’s poz and his primary responsibility amounts only to taking pills. In what universe is that an undue burden for someone caught in HIV’s net,, which killed millions, and by his own actions? Your friend needs a fucking fist against his diseased melon.

Well, to be fair, he was not having unsafe sex on his travels. The main damage was to his own health. He has been compliant now for about 8-10 years. The fact that he also now has type II diabetes and has gone through prostate cancer surgery has made him take his health much more seriously. My point was not about him, but about the idea that some people, especially HIV+ people who have never been symptomatic from HIV, might tend to take their treatments for granted. Since they didn't feel ill to begin with, sometimes it doesn't sink in with such people that development of full-blown AIDS is an entirely different kettle of fish and something they would want to avoid for their entire lifetimes.