THEATRE GOSSIP #287 — Jerry Zaks' Sunday Clothes

And The Greatest Showman ushers in a new era of musical movie greatness

Is that Donna Summer musical from San Diego really coming to Broadway this spring?

In your rush to be the first one to create a new thread, you forgot the word "edition" at the end of the title.

And in your rush to complain about the title, R3, you complained about that rather than the relevance of the subject matter.

R4, I didn't want to embarrass the OP, but the post is very pedestrian. It lacks any type of wit and is simply a rehash of comments made in the previous thread. Anyone can copy and paste.

And once again, you project your lack of creativity and dull pedantry onto me.

[quote] Is that Donna Summer musical from San Diego really coming to Broadway this spring?

Have any musicals ever gone directly from San Diego to Broadway before?

Into the Woods did. It ran at Old Globe and then straight to Broadway. Of course it went through 4 Witches also (Ellen Foley, Betty Buckley, Patti LuPone and then finally Bernadette

Oh, I recognize that “I know you are but what am I?” nonsense.

There is only one troll who has no other counter-argument.

It is not trolling to point out hypocrisy.

[quote]Have any musicals ever gone directly from San Diego to Broadway before?

Didn’t Allegiance go straight from SD to NY (for a brief stay)?

[quote]It is not trolling to point out hypocrisy.

That is true.

That is not, however, what you are doing. You’re a dim-witted lunatic who has no answer to anyone except “I know you are but what am I?”

Continue the party at the thread below. It wasn't created by the Poppins Loon.

No, R12, that's what you are doing while accusing me of doing it to you. And whatever you dish out to me you will receive back in return. With interest.

[quote]that's what you are doing while accusing me of doing it to you.

Again, your only response is “I know you are but what am I?”

Are you a Repug? You project as badly as they do.

R15, the only one projecting here is Y-O-U.

“IKYABWAI?”

More words put in my mouth by you, R17, and now you don't even bother to spell them. Grow up.

IKYABWAI

Too bad Pee-Wee Herman was already on Broadway and you missed him, R19.

Nothing ever comes out of his mouth or keyboard except “IKYABWAI?”

The Loon has nothing to offer the world except variations on that phrase.

So is this the next thread?

No, Rose, the next thread is polyester that made from something that doesn't require another World War.

and speaking of Stephanie Lawrence.........

Maybe she can play Al Jolson, too.

I am counting on some stellar examples of vile hate speech on this thread.

Is the Poppins Loon the asshole with the hair-trigger temper who bitches about paying for house seats for Dolly and he didn't like the sets? He's also pretty awful on the Oscars thread, too. It sounds like he's the OP of this thread. Is that the Loon, or is there also a "Needs Anger Management" Troll?

Speaking of FOLLIES......

Given that the show's numbers were built around the strength's (and weaknesses) of the original cast, one reason The Right Girl never quite works is that it's structured for a frigging gymnast!

I type out complete sentences, yet I'm the one whose mental health is called into question?

[quote] Is the Poppins Loon the asshole with the hair-trigger temper who bitches about paying for house seats for Dolly and he didn't like the sets? He's also pretty awful on the Oscars thread, too. It sounds like he's the OP of this thread. Is that the Loon, or is there also a "Needs Anger Management" Troll?

Gosh, if only there was a way for you to find out. You seem obsessed with me and seem to be following me from thread to thread. You block me, but only to find out where else I've posted so you can go there and try to engage me. You already know I'm not the Poppins loon, and also that I did not begin this thread, as you seem to know everything about me in terms of what I do on Datalounge. I submit that there must be far better ways to spend your time, as I'm really not that interesting.

[R7] Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, Full Monty and Jersey Boys all went from SD to NY.

Didn't Bright Star also go from SD to Broadway or did it have another stop in between?

Hey Loon! There’s more than one person on here who thinks you’re a dull witted lunatic.

[quote]I'm really not that interesting.

NEVER argue with anyone who says this.

It is always true.

Another theatre thread already gone to hell.

R30: That epithet most accurately describes the author of those shitty books.

[quote] Another theatre thread already gone to hell.

At least the subject matter is one of the musicals of 1964 whose success was actually deserved.

Christ...the self-centered madwomen on this thread! I feel like I'm at the tea party from Dear World. Actually I'd much rather be at the tea party from Dear World.

I have a question. So many productions are filmed for the NYPL BUT you have to have credentials or be a student to view them “because of union rules” why are unions so fucked up on people viewing their work?

The LuPone Gypsy is in the archives. I guarantee that had it been commercially released, LuPone would have been nominated for an Emmy and it would have raised her profile. Why is there so much red tape?

Getting in to view the videos at the NYPL isn't really that difficult. You just have to be creative. I've got no credentials but was working on a documentary so I was able to view some material. I didn't have to present any proof that I was working on a documentary, I just stated it and they allowed it.

I would also guess that the reason these shows aren't commercially filmed outside of the rare instance is that perhaps producers are worried that if that became more of the fashion, people would just wait until they could watch the show for $25 instead of paying $140 or more per ticket.

There must have been more dressing room buttfucking going on behind the scenes of the movie [italic]Hello, Dolly![/italic] than there were hookups at Stonewall the time of the riots.

[QUOTE]why are unions so fucked up on people viewing their work?

Wanting their members to receive proper payment and royalties is "fucked up"? Interesting to see how easily people buy the bullshit excuses peddled by producers.

Part of the reason the NYPL is so strict is that they want the resource to be used by those who are serious about it. They've had situations where parents bring their children in and use the NYPL as a babysitter. Or they would have homeless people just coming in and watching videos all day long.

I do think that Broadway could do a better job of releasing shows to the general public. The National Theatre does excellent work in getting their shows out beyond London. And I have to hand it to Sondheim for allowing so many of his shows to be filmed and released to the public. I think if Broadway producers did more of this, there would be less bootlegs and people filming illegally.

How the hell did Mushmouth Lupone ever manage the Witch's Rap, r8?

[quote] And I have to hand it to Sondheim for allowing so many of his shows to be filmed and released to the public. I think if Broadway producers did more of this, there would be less bootlegs and people filming illegally.

I wish Jerry Herman would have taken that attitude and not let his bitterness over LucyMAME blind him to the new windows this could open up for his works. I still want a [italic]La Cage[/italic] movie musical. Not a taped show, but a full-scale film version.

I heard the folks behind the Donna Summer musical are worried that rumors about McAnuff sexual no-no's will come out and ruin the show's chances.

Lupone never did the Witch’s rap. She sang “Stay With Me” and “Boom Crunch” then negotiations broke down. Then Bernadette got everything Patti had asked for and then some

The Donna Summer Show has the double whammy harassment issues of MacAnuff and choreographer Sergio Trujillo. All sexes covered.

Beans! Beans! Nothing but beans!

[quote]Beans! Beans! Nothing but beans! —Patti Lu

She can play the campfire in [italic]Blazing Saddles: The Musical[/italic]

Patti LuPone?? I've never heard of her being in the mix for ITW. Why would she be? She had Anything Goes coming down the pike. My understanding was Buckley replaced Foley after the workshop, then there were issues with how Buckley wanted to perform it and she got fired and Sondheim went to Bernadette begging her to step in and help save the show because they really needed a name. (How Ellen Foley was ever considered a name is beyond me.)

That's correct. Lupone was never involved.

[quote]How Ellen Foley was ever considered a name is beyond me.

What are they supposed to call her, Blandarine, Queen of the Basics?

And no disrespect to LuPone but if I took all that trouble to get the ingredients for that spell, cast it, and turned out looking like LuPone, I'd turn in my wand and go join the teamsters.

Ellen Foley came in for the last few weeks (maybe a month) of the broadway run. I would guess she was replaced for more reasons other than not being a name. Bernadette gave the show a jolt of star power but she left after just a few months. Rashad came in for a few months and was blah. Betsy Joslyn who had been understudying the with and Cinderella took over and was outstanding. Nancy Dussault followed and was ok. Then it closed with Foley. Buckley would have sung it gorgeously but, as with SB, lost all the humor in the role. Did anyone see Cleo Laine on tour?

LuPone was involved google Patti LuPone Into the Woods you lazy fucks.

She wanted to play Cinderella but they offered her the Witch and then negotiations broke down.

She has told this story several times.

Her diction wasn't even good enough to play Pete's Dragon.

DL fave Beth Malone will play the Angel 'at certain performances' of Angels in America? Well, it will give her something to do until that Molly Brown revival hits broadway.

The Temptations musical, "Ain'T Too Proud" is slated for next Fall, also directed/choreographed by the MacAnuff/Trujillo tag team. Noteworthy gets sloppy seconds.

Is every 60s/70s recording star of note getting a jukebox musical?

[quote] LuPone was involved google Patti LuPone Into the Woods you lazy fucks.

She says she auditioned for Cinderella but they wanted to discuss her playing the Witch, which she did not want to do. That's hardly being involved. The original poster who mentioned it said-

[quote] Into the Woods did. It ran at Old Globe and then straight to Broadway. Of course it went through 4 Witches also (Ellen Foley, Betty Buckley, Patti LuPone and then finally Bernadette

They did not "go through" LuPone because she was never attached, never even came close, because she didn't want to play the role.

Patti was much better off doing Anything Goes instead of ITW. Her Reno is my absolute favorite PLP performance and that revival was perfection.

[quote]Did anyone see Cleo Laine on tour?

I did. The tour was almost an entirely new staging. Cleo was okay. I liked her better in Woods than in Drood

Definitely. That AG revival was one of the first Broadway musicals I ever saw (my 2nd, actually) and I got brought backstage after and met her. She terrified me.

[quote]Then Bernadette got everything Patti had asked for and then some

Bernadette got everything she asked for and more because she really didn't want to do the show. They were desperate to get it to Broadway and they begged Bernadette to do it. She said she'd open the show and she did it for the first six months. She didn't even allow herself to be nominated for a Tony because she had bigger fish to fry.

[quote] And The Greatest Showman ushers in a new era of musical movie greatness

Not since LucyMAME and [italic]The Movie: A Chorus Line[/italic]!

Why would LuPone want to play Cinderella? She doesn't look anything like a fairytale princess.

Fuck You, r67! I’m a delicate fucking flower!

[quote]Fuck You, [R67]! I’m a delicate fucking flower! —Patti

Oh ho ho, what a comforting thing to know.

[quote] She didn't even allow herself to be nominated for a Tony because she had bigger fish to fry.

That's not true. There was a big flap about the fact that Peters was NOT nominated when it was widely anticipated she would be. She even made a joke about it on that year's telecast.

Patti LuPone - too busy smoking and reading magazines in her dressing room to bother herself with making an entrance.

Did someone say "fish" and "big flap"?

[quote]All the people who doubted Bette would last the year are the same people who keep pushing the NYTimes expose and the people who keep claiming it was never called Shuffling Along. People will make up anything no the internet.

(1) People who doubted that Bette would last the year in DOLLY! were obviously just guessing based on the fact that she hadn't done eight a week (or, as it turned out in this case, seven a week) of a show for an entire year since she was in FIDDLER in the 1960s, and she wasn't the lead in that show. (2) So many people were talking about a NY Times expose that it's hard to believe someone just made it up. There probably was one coming and it was cancelled or postponed for some reason. As some of you might have noticed, the Times just had a long article about the sexual harassment of male models. (3) I can't swear that SHUFFLE ALONG was never titled SHUFFLING ALONG in the planning stages, but I don't remember that and I haven't been able to find any evidence of it through Googling.

[quote]The Temptations musical, "Ain'T Too Proud" is slated for next Fall,

I guess "Ain't Too Proud" was one of their biggest hits, but isn't that a terrible title for the show? Why didn't they call it GET READY: THE TEMPTATIONS MUSICAL?

"Shuffling Along" sounds like it should be a song from [italic]Goonies: The Musical[/italic].

[quote]That's not true. There was a big flap about the fact that Peters was NOT nominated when it was widely anticipated she would be. She even made a joke about it on that year's telecast.

The joke was written in as jokes like that often are.

That year these were the people that were nominated:

Joanna Gleason - Into The Woods

Alison Fraser - Romance, Romance

Judy Kuhn - Chess

Patti LuPone - Anything Goes

If Bernadette had allowed herself to be nominated, she would have taken Alison Fraser's position. People loved Bernadette and she would have be nominated if she were allowed to be.

[quote] I guess "Ain't Too Proud" was one of their biggest hits, but isn't that a terrible title for the show?

I can kind of see it working if they focus on David Ruffin's desire to have his name in the name of the group just as The Supremes became Diana Ross and the Supremes.

Bernadette was nominated for a Drama Desk. She allowed herself to be nominated but she was snubbed. It happens again with Follies

Patti LuPone DID agree to play the WItch but they couldn’t come to terms with the contract. She wanted billing, ect and said no, but later gave it all to Bernadette.

That’s when the Patti/Bernadette feud rumor started to beef up.

Then came the Annie Get Your Gun/Gypsy fiascos

[quote](1) People who doubted that Bette would last the year in DOLLY! were obviously just guessing based on the fact that she hadn't done eight a week (or, as it turned out in this case, seven a week) of a show for an entire year since she was in FIDDLER in the 1960s, and she wasn't the lead in that show.

It was also rumored that she gave up on her sitcom because she just couldn't take the grind. Plus, she laid off the concert touring circuit for awhile and did a residency in Las Vegas which allowed her to perform for a few weeks, then take a few weeks off.

R75, THAT's your logic? That she would have been nominated if she'd allowed herself to be?

Hey, actors, I have good news for you. Apparently, you can all be nominated for a Tony award, you just simply have to allow yourself to be.

[quote] Then came the Annie Get Your Gun/Gypsy fiascos

Geez, Patti ran that AGYG thing into the ground. In her concert, she said, "I thought I was going to do the Merman catalogue."

Last week someone posted on BWW that the Times Broadway expose was still being developed and the problem was that the more they worked on it, the more they found. He then mentioned they were having the same problems with an article on fashion photographers. This was before the Weber/Testino piece was published.

[quote]THAT's your logic? That she would have been nominated if she'd allowed herself to be?

I think the reasoning was that she had planned to leave the show in March and not all the Tony voters would have seen her performance by that time. And so she pulled her name from consideration.

[quote]Times Broadway expose was still being developed and the problem was that the more they worked on it, the more they found.

So what. The NYT should publish what they have and then build on that. WE WANT THE BROADWAY GOSSIP.

Forget the NY Times, I'm making up my own Broadway story.

When Elisabeth Moss was in Speed-the-Plow she was sexually harassed by Jeremy Piven. So she called some of her Scientology friends to put the screws on him and that's why he left the show after two months citing mercury poisoning. Meanwhile, it is well known that Raul Esparza walks around in his underwear. Moss went nuts with all the testosterone in that show.

[quote] So what. The NYT should publish what they have and then build on that. WE WANT THE BROADWAY GOSSIP.

Hell, I'll settle for off-Broadway gossip if it's juicy.

So the answer to "who sexually exploits actors on Broadway" is basically everybody?

Sounds about right.

[quote]It was also rumored that she gave up on her sitcom because she just couldn't take the grind. Plus, she laid off the concert touring circuit for awhile and did a residency in Las Vegas which allowed her to perform for a few weeks, then take a few weeks off.

I thought Bette's sitcom ended because the ratings and the reviews were pretty bad, but I could be wrong about that.

Technically, Bette didn't PERFORM Dolly for a solid year. She started rehearsals in January and, I believe, Dolly started previews in March. She also had scheduled vacations and Tuesday nights off throughout her run. Why? Because she knows how to take care of herself. She had one unscheduled absence and Linda Mugleston went on.

Too bad Bette wasn’t better in the show. Probable blame to miscasting as well as direction.....

[quote] I think the reasoning was that she had planned to leave the show in March and not all the Tony voters would have seen her performance by that time. And so she pulled her name from consideration.

I'm sorry but that is not accurate. She did not pull her name from consideration, was nominated for a Drama Desk Award and was widely expected to be among the four nominees. It's entirely possible that the reason she didn't make the cut was that she left the show before all the nominators were able to see her (but I have no idea) or they may have thought it was more of a supporting role (which it was, but her name was over the title), but she was absolutely in the running for a nomination and did not pull her name. I'm not even sure one can do that since it's not like the Emmys where the actor has to submit themselves. You can refuse a nomination (like Julie Andrews did), but not the consideration for a nomination.

I tried to find out if Bernadette was also up for an OCC award, but could only find the winners. I did a google search and also checked the theater world volume for that year. Nada.

R66, The Greatest Showman will end up grossing more than Mame, A Chorus Line and Rent combined. Deal. It’s a huge popular hit. The people have spoken and they LOVE it.

Argumentum ad populum is still a logical fallacy, R91, and no, we should not be forced to deal with bad art becoming popular, nor with dreary droning being called "anthemic."

Didn't the Matthew Broderick "How to Succeed" start in San Diego, too? And "Thoroughly Modern Millie?"

WTF was Bernadette so busy with that she didn't want to do Into the Woods??

LuPone was involved early - I think before Buckley.

Bernadette left Into the Woods to film Merchant Ivory Slaves of New York. I don’t blame her. They did A Room With a View. She probably thought slam dunk Oscar nomination. Instead it ruined her film career.

[quote]Instead it ruined her film career.

Guess we're off the hook then.

Bernadette had two film projects she was already committed to - one was that TV movie about the little boy whose father set him on fire, David - and the second was "Slaves of New York." Everyone knew going into it that she would have to leave in March.

Love your posh words, R92, but facts are facts. The Greatest Showman is a HIT.

It's still a terrible movie.

So what drugs are Jeff Whitty addicted to? Besides Molly. His billing on the go-go musical is Broadway at its finest.

That’s just your opinion, R100. Millions of people don’t agree with you.

The Greatest Showman is one of those films that makes people squeal "The Movie Musical Its BACK!"

And then nothing happens.

Hugh Jackman is perfect for Broadway.

All I’m going to say is Barbara Cook was a huge fan.

She was his target audience.

I’m going to leave it at that.

HughFraus = CheyenneFraus = RaulFraus

I’m really surprised Robert Fairchild didn’t take off more. He’s handsome, a dancer and yet married/straight.

He seemed to fit into that Hugh Jackman demographic, but his career isn’t as big as it could have been.

[quote]The Greatest Showman will end up grossing more than Mame, A Chorus Line and Rent combined. Deal. It’s a huge popular hit. The people have spoken and they LOVE it.

How long before we see "The Greatest Showman -- The Broadway Musical"?

What is Whitty’s billing and what does it have to do with drugs? And wasn’t he pushed aside for James Magruder, who is now listed as the book writer?

Book And Additional Meth By Jeff Whitty

Did somebody say beans beans and nothing but beans? Could we add some guac to that too?

I’m really surprised Audra has never been in a Sondheim show in NY. I know she did regional theatre at Ravinia, but he called her voice a “glory of American Theatre.”

Was she passed over? Not interested? Too much gas?

She’d make a good Bakers Wife.

Wow we really do have a Fairchild Troll.

He’s not married/straight. He’s gay. And his career is just getting going. He’s done pretty well for someone who is transitions from dancer to musical theatre performer.

Agree she’d make a good Bakers Wife. But what else would she have done in these last 20 years in NY? Not Road Show, and she was too big a star for Sondheim on Sondheim.

[quote]The Greatest Showman is one of those films that makes people squeal "The Movie Musical Its BACK!" And then nothing happens.

Movie musicals never really went away, but the MPAA slapping a G rating on anything that would have passed the Production Code prior to 1968 got a lot of them branded as kids' films despite dark and disturbing subject matter like Shelley Winters' undergarments.

According to someone on ATC who "knows Scott Rudin," Bernadette and Garber are contracted for six months. After that, a Dolly who is a "Broadway name" will replace for three months and then head the national tour. The last name, a major A-list celebrity, will finished out the NY run.

Will that jibes with the thread at BWW that says Ebersole is going to lead the tour.

I love the "know it all" tone of the queen(s) who think they're an expert on all things Bernie/Patti/Into The Woods.

Yes. I'm sure Bernie decreed she would not accept a Tony nomination...

No one does that. Why would she? No theater actor turns down an opportunity for that level of an award even if you already have one.

Tony winner sound fine but two time/three time/multiple times Tony winner sounds a lot better and will get you more money and a legacy career.

Other shows that went from SD to Broadway: Tommy, Jersey Boys, Hands on a Hardbody. My brother lives in SD and sees everything before me.

[quote]I’m really surprised Audra has never been in a Sondheim show in NY.

She played the Beggar Woman in the Emma Thompson production of "Sweeney Todd." That was a concert version at Lincoln Center, but it still counts. That show won an Emmy Award and Audra is counting it towards her EGOT. So all she needs now is an "O".

They must think the show sells itself if they're putting Ebersole in the tour - I figured they'd go with a TV name like Fran Drescher or Mullally

Deb Messing should be begging to go into Hello Dolly. But I guess she's content playing the BFF of a gay man.

The Greatest is PERFECT for today's audience.

[quote] thread at BWW that says Ebersole is going to lead the tour.

Almost everything Rudin has done with Dolly has been smart, from the way he courted Midler, to the money he spent on getting the best performers and designers around her. I can't believe he would suddenly turn stupid and plan to star a B-level star in the tour. For three months on Broadway after Peters, yeah, she could do okay with that. But a national tour? That's bombs away. Even if Midler kicks it off with an LA gig, I can't see an Ebersole-starred "Dolly" gaining any tour traction.

To the person above who says Fairchild is gay, how do you know that?

He was legally married for years and only this year did they announce their separation. Since then there has been no public statements or articles to the contrary. AND don’t go on about the rumors of him dating his old understudy, that’s just gay gossip with no substance.

Seriously I’ll eat my hat if ANY poster can support evidence hes gay.

What is the "evidence" that your court of judgment is accepting?

Splatsy Trombone was never involved with ITW. Get your facts right, troll.

Lol. Is there an Emmy sitting on Audra’s mantle? No, there is not. And she’ll never get an Oscar.

Reba is finishing the Broadway Dolly run. You heard it here first folks.

[quote] Lol. Is there an Emmy sitting on Audra’s mantle? No, there is not. And she’ll never get an Oscar.

After the third Tony, you learn to deal with it. Hollywood always ignored my best work anyway.

[quote]Is there an Emmy sitting on Audra’s mantle? No, there is not.

She doesn't need to have the metal to claim the title. We all know those awards shows are cheap and make the winners pay for the award.

However, the Television Academy still records it as a win for Audra.

r123: But if Ebersole clicks in the part and gets raves (I think she's perfect), she might do very well on tour. Brad Oscar was no Nathan Lane, but his Producers tour was very successful.

R124, your obsession with Fairchild is frightening. You spent all last summer bemoaning that “the ardor has cooled” between him and Day, and acting concerned, now you’ve moved to tour new tactic of denying the whole thing. You seem mentally ill. You need to take a spoonful of sugar and help that medicine go down because clearly you need it.

R132, using lower-carb metaphors would be a step in the right direction.

It's Chenoweth.

That would actually be a smart move, r128 - she would bring in a different audience who won't already have seen it at that point

She could actually do it well.

[quote] Brad Oscar was no Nathan Lane, but his Producers tour was very successful.

THE PRODUCERS was a phenomenon. It had just won more Tonys than any show in Broadway history. The show sold itself. DOLLY, on the other hand, is a 50+ year old, old-fashioned musical that anyone over 30 has probably seen in one form or another. Where's the incentive to spend $100+ a ticket unless you're going to see a big name?

Plus, some of these road houses are real barns. I often second-acted the Channing DOLLY in 1994 at the Orpheum in San Francisco and the last 20% of the orchestra was empty

Agree that Reba is the best Dolly possibility I've heard so far.

[QUOTE]The show sold itself.

Did it? I've always heard that once Lane and Broderick left it struggled and it was basically those two that sold the show. But it was before my time, so more than willing to be corrected on that.

Who would be Horace to her Dolly, though? How long is Victor Garber's contract for?

Mullally and Offerman together would be so great, it will be sad if it doesn't happen - mb they can do it for a limited time in LA?

[quote] Did it? I've always heard that once Lane and Broderick left it struggled and it was basically those two that sold the show. But it was before my time, so more than willing to be corrected on that.

Lane and Broderick left the show at the same time, March 17, 2002, and the show ran 5 more years, closing in April 2007. Yes, the two of them came back for a short time in 2003-2004, which gave the box office a jolt, but I think you could argue that it did well enough without them.

I did not like THE PRODUCERS, and I'll confess that I was secretly glad that, although it broke DOLLY's record for the most Tonys, it did not run as long (2502 performances v 2844 for DOLLY)

I think the point R139 was making is that when The Producers opened, it was hailed as the biggest thing to hit Broadway in years. It seemed it was going to be a show that would run for a lifetime, like a Phantom or Lion King. But the flaws of it became apparent without its original stars, and it really cooled off rather quickly. In particular, the type of clowning that Lane can do was almost irreplaceable. The show proved much more vulnerable than expected, and its last few years, it was heavily discounted and playing to half-filled houses.

The problem with The Producers was that they immediately brought in a Brit to replace Nathan Lane. And that didn't go so well.

It may be a movie but it's sure not musical.

r130 So Audra won an Emmy for HOSTING Sweeney Todd Live from Lincoln Center? That's bizarre.

[quote]So Audra won an Emmy for HOSTING Sweeney Todd Live from Lincoln Center? That's bizarre.

Yes, but she also played the Beggar Woman for a few performances. She has to be one of the luckiest people in the world.

[quote] The LuPone Gypsy is in the archives. I guarantee that had it been commercially released, LuPone would have been nominated for an Emmy and it would have raised her profile. Why is there so much red tape?

I can't speak for certain about this one specifically but a lot of the NYPL archive tapes aren't filmed in the same manner as a commercial production. I'm not sure many of them would look halfway decent at home or on TV. There's not a ton of closeups, the sound isn't awesome, it's basically a camera on a tripod filming the whole show for archival purposes. The quality would be nowhere near that of Idina's in London. I'd be amazed if LuPone would want the archive version released.

Also, if they did do that they would have to come to agreements with everyone involved with that production; everyone who created Gypsy and their right holders which would have to be weighed against what's good for the property and whether or not releasing it would hurt or help future productions. It would be a pretty massive and costly undertaking that would not likely not in the end be profitable.

I haven't been following the threads, but is Christine Ebersole definitely the Dolly who's going to out on tour? Who is going to see that? The 12 people who saw War Paint?

Reba fits the description of a major Dolly who is also a celeb outside theatre. If she wants to cap off her limited theatrical career, it’s the perfect part.

Re Ebersole and the tour - I just don’t think she could sell a tour. Not even if it were just Chicago, SF and LA. LuPone could, but Ebersole most likely couldn’t. Maybe - a big maybe - if they got DHP to come back as her Horace. But even then she’d be a tough sell.

Maybe Dolly would sell with anyone.

Channing took it out on the road for years so there's likely a lot of parts of the country that remember it fondly.

Why are we all so certain it's Ebersole.

Also why is Reba closing the show? They don't think they can find a few more Dollies?

Why hasn't R33 been sent to the grease fire yet?

[quote] After that, a Dolly who is a "Broadway name" will replace for three months and then head the national tour.

Ben Platt?

[quote] Maybe - a big maybe - if they got DHP to come back as her Horace.

The show's not called HELLO, HORACE! is it?

No but DHP would excite the flyover fraus more than Christine Ebersole and her talk backs about 9/11 being an inside job.

Here she is boys! Here she is world! Here's.....

GRACE!!!

[quote]Christine Ebersole and her talk backs about 9/11 being an inside job.

This from a woman who took money for a cut-rate [italic]E.T[/italic] ripoff designed to sell McDonald's and Coca-Cola? Has anyone ever asked her about that after the fact?

I'm curious what the effects of that NYT article on Broadway would really be.

As it is there's really not that MANY Broadway musical directors and if they're all sex monsters who is going to helm these shows?

Also do non-theatre people REALLY know these people's names.

Is someone who wants to go see a show not going to take their kids because the director or choreographer was accused of sleeping with the chorus boys?

Phantom of the Opera wasn't harmed by hiring a kiddie diddler.

Tell that to the kiddies he diddled, R159.

What's the Patti/ Annie Get Your Gun story? And why wasn't she a replacement in the last revival?

Some posters on ALL THAT CHAT have mentioned cameras filming Bette's Dolly last week.

While most assume it was just for the NYPL collection, the fact that there was more than one camera might mean a future broadcast.

Now that Broadway survives on the tourist dollar, do producers really think Bernadette will attract lots of tourists? They have no idea who she is.

Bernadette will fill seats with people who want to see Dolly and refused to pay the absurdly high prices Bette commanded.

DOLLY is such a dated show, who would want to see it unless there's a HUGE name as the star?

The fact that Donna Murphy Tuesday tickets were going for 50% off, is Bernadette any bigger a name outsider NYC?

[quote]What's the Patti/ Annie Get Your Gun story? And why wasn't she a replacement in the last revival?

When AGYG was first being talked about for a revival, Patti thought she was going to get it. She was Merman's heir for all her roles. Then Bernie snuck in under the wire and grabbed it from under Patti's nose.

Although queens hate it the film is generally well regarded nowadays.

Re Dolly. Reba would be fantastic! I don't know why she wouldn't go on tour with it, either, since that is how she makes her living anyway. As good as Ebersole is, I think the hinterland will need a big star to go see a creaky old show that everyone has already seen in one form or another. Reba would be great.

I’m not a Fairchild loon. He was married to a woman. He’s never given an interview or press about a change in sexual orientations. What have I missed?

You've missed that most people DON'T give press to announce their change in sexual orientation. You've also missed the fact that just because YOU don't know the ins and out of it, doesn't mean that it didn't happen. And sorry, but anyone as obsessed as you are with Fairchild is indeed a loon.

[quote] What have I missed?

Besides the fact that you are obsessively boring, I can't think of a thing.

"DOLLY is such a dated show, who would want to see it..."

They want to see it because it's a known show of QUALITY and a very good production, star or no star.

Don't bet on it r162, they use multiple cameras for the library filming.

I think Bernadette Peters still plays to the flyovers. She's been a star for forty years and has done film and television that people still remember her fondly from. Is she Midler-popular? No. Could she pull in the ticket prices Midler was going for? No. But between the buzz Dolly got and how familiar Peters is, it's the kind of thing where some dumb tourists will go- Hey, we can get tickets to Dolly! Is Midler still in it? Well, no, but Bernadette Peters is and the guy who played Sydney's dad on Alias is. And we can get them for $89. Oh, I like them. Great, let's do it.

Tourists want name brands. Dolly is a name brand.

I didn't love the show (or Midler in it), but if Reba went in, I'd fly in from LA specifically to see her. I am still kicking myself that I never saw Annie Get Your Gun, but I was not a Reba fan back then. I only knew her as a country singer and from being halfway decent in Tremors. But I loved her sitcom and she had some really good comedic timing, so I'd love to see her do something onstage.

NYPL only does one filming session. I think when they film professionally, don't they do it over two or three sessions?

How about Dolly Parton or Cyndi Lauper for Dolly? They'd certainly sell tickets and be fun in the role. Yes, Reba would be great, too; boy, was she wonderful in "Annie Get Your Gun"!

[quote] NYPL only does one filming session. I think when they film professionally, don't they do it over two or three sessions?

Yes, and they block it all out and they sometimes move or restage or relight moments and they do reshoots if a mistake is made. As said above the NYPL archives are just for archival purposes, they would not be released commercially.

Is Jeff Whitty really a meth addict?

So it's going to be Bernadette and Victor Garber, followed by Christine Ebersole and WHO, and then close with Reba and WHO?

Someone was suggesting Goldie Hawn which I thought would have been interesting.

Goldie Hawn as Horace?

Maybe they'll shake it up a bit and have someone cast as Ephraim, the way some jackass director put the deceased football player on stage in "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof"! Goldie as Ephraim!

If Cyndi takes over the role, I hope she'll be more professional than she is when she does concerts. The bitch is constantly stopping songs and starting over because of some perceived issue with an earpiece or a musician or something not to her liking. I've seen her at least four times where this got progressively worse, and finally I just stopped buying tickets. The thing is, none of us saw or heard a problem. She's just an asshole.

[quote]The bitch is constantly stopping songs and starting over because of some perceived issue

Obviously just done for attention. When I was in college, I acted in some plays and there was one particular actress who would always stop during dress rehearsals and bring up some bullshit. One time she stopped the run through for 20 minutes to have a discussion with the costume designer because her dress rustled when she walked. Nobody else heard it. She was always stopping whatever show she was in for some really idiot reason.

Does anyone here actually live in or near New York and go to Broadway? What's the capacity of the Shubert? 1400+? So Ms. Bette did her last two shows in DOLLY and about six fangurls on ATC are in heat because Bette Midler did not make a curtain speech!

R162, here are the facts. Her final performance was filmed for TOFT, not her final week. What's suspicious is that most of these filmings use 3 cameras. This one used 9 nine. Maybe they just wanted a very thorough document of the performance, or maybe.....

Whitty has been let go of three projects because of his addiction. "Head over Heels," the Tammy Faye Project with Elton John and a puppet/theater extravaganza called "Benny and the Jets" to be directed by "Greatest Showman" director Michael "Do you like my cap?" Gracey. These projects are being passed around for other theater writers to look at. It is a heartbreaker.

I wouldn't be surprised if Bette as Dolly does one of those one-night movie showings all over the country. Of course after Christine, Bernadette, Reba, et al have their time.

I don't get meth anymore. It's been around so long, and destroyed so many lives, what can anyone be thinking? "Oh, not me! I'll totally be able to handle this toxic drug, no problem!" It's just pathetic at this point.

[quote] These projects are being passed around for other theater writers to look at.

The same way I imagine Whitty was passed around when he first landed in NYC.

[quote] I don't get meth anymore. It's been around so long, and destroyed so many lives, what can anyone be thinking? "Oh, not me! I'll totally be able to handle this toxic drug, no problem!" It's just pathetic at this point.

In Whitty's defense I'd be surprised if he RECENTLY discovered meth.

correct, R190. Jeff's been fighting this for the better part of a decade, perhaps longer. Why haven't his famous friends like Lin Manuel Miranda, Bobby Lopez, and Armistead Mapuin helped to get him into a rehab somewhere?

F. MURRAY ABRAHAM, ED HARRIS, MARK LINN-BAKER, AMY MADIGAN, KENNY MELLMAN, MAULIK PANCHOLY AND ROSIE O'DONNELL in one play at New Group?

That's a lot of NAMES for a theater that seats 190 people, right?

I hope Ed Harris goes nude. He's a hot daddy.

Michael Arden wrote on twitter "Most of the time you just kill yourself for work and the person who never shows up gets rewarded. Ah well." Any idea what he's talking about?

Julianne Moore. Seriously.

Reba as Dolly, Willie Nelson as Horace

who Is Michael Arden feuding with?

Will Rosie O make it through previews?

Will Robert Fairchild come out via Out Magazine?

Will Ashley stay?

Will Reba take over from Christine?

Will Bernadette sell?

We need answers

[quote] When AGYG was first being talked about for a revival, Patti thought she was going to get it. She was Merman's heir for all her roles.

Well there's always HAPPY HUNTING.

Maybe they can get Lorenzo Lamas to play his dad's part, that is if he can fill the role...wink...wink

1. Remember Patti had just done a major benefit reading of AGYG at Lincoln Center with Peter Gallagher to great success. And the Weisslers snatched up the rights then announced they were doing it with a younger cast. And promptly cast Bernadette.

2. Whitty quit these jobs and has denied all help. He loves getting high that much

[quote] And the Weisslers snatched up the rights then announced they were doing it with a younger cast. And promptly cast Bernadette.

The irony being that Bernadette is 14 months older than Patti

Whitty was in recovery for a very short time, but loves being strung out much more. He recently changed his Facebook name and rambled on and on by way of an explanation.

Patti was awful in that Annie Get Your gun reading. The problem with the revival wasn't Bernadette, though, it was the hideous new book, orchestrations, and choreography. The reason Reba was able to triumph was simply because she was so on the money for the role, that it made you able to ignore the fact that she was having to perform the same lousy production. Of course, it helped that she had Brent Barrett at the height of his beauty as her Frank Butler.

Bernadette has about six weeks left in her 60s. She turns 70 on Feb 28th. Patti turns 69 six weeks after that.

I thought the backstage word was that Merman and Lamas detested each other, R198.

Absolutely right, r202. The story I heard many times was that the Weisslers didn't go looking for Reba. She saw the the show and, having grown up on an Oklahoma farm with five brothers, loved it and said to herself "I can do that!" She had her manager or agent contact them immediately to tell them she'd be interested in replacing.

Why didn't the Gower Champion/Debbie Reynolds AGYG come to New York? I know that that was what was originally intended and the production got excellent reviews on the West Coast. And wasn't that the first production to stage the show as "a show within a show"? (can't remember)

[quote]The problem with the revival wasn't Bernadette, though, it was the hideous new book, orchestrations, and choreography.

No blame for Bernie’s Southern accent?

I remember Bernadette on a talk show and she said, "Oh, we had to cut I'm An Indian Too because it was such a degrading song." Yet she had no problems singing "Folks are dumb where I come from...."

Has anyone suggested Harvey F as Dolly?

R205, it was the LACLO production and it was indeed outstanding. Gower Champion did one of his best jobs doing the show. I seem to recall they did it back East with Lucie Arnaz.

Just a bit of fun: During the gun slinging scene, the stage manager didn't correctly activate the special effects so it was ruined. Debbie came storming backstage and the stage manager called her a "cunt". She slugged him and had him fired on the spot. He sued and lost.

Fierstein as Dolly would certainly sell tickets, but I can't imagine it will be good for the show. It might interject gender politics into a show that can't support it. It worked in Hairspray because one of the messages in that was embracing who you are and who you love, but Dolly? Then again, it could be amusing in a watching a train wreck sort of way.

Fierstein as Dolly, croaking his way through those Jerry Herman songs, strikes me as a very stale idea.

His Tevye was the male LucyMAME.

For years, decades actually, Herman refused to allow licensing for a production with a male Dolly. The sole exception he made was for Danny LaRue in London. (I do know of a few productions that went on without informing Tams-Witmark.) I think that restriction has now been lifted but I'm not positive.

The .ACLO Annie wasn’t exactly “Show within a Show.” It did open with a ballet where they put up the tent (pretty much a direct steal from Champion’s “Carnival” opening), but it was t done as Show within a show.

Debbie Shapiro was the main chorus girl in the production, and showed up all over the place with solo lines and bits of song.

I don’t know what happened with Debbie, why she didn’t take it to NY, but Lucie Arnaz did indeed replace her as Annie for East Coast engagements.

Debbie later regretted not doing a Broadway run with it.

[quote]I hope Ed Harris goes nude. He's a hot daddy.

With my luck, we'll get a nude Rosie O'Donnell.

Philip Sidney on Facebook

Debbie Shapiro couldn't draw flies at the B.O. Even then.

Oooh, Philip Sidney is a piece of work. From her FB page: "Hello everyone. My name is Philip Sidney. You may see me and think, "Jeff Whitty --" but no, it is me, a new man who works with a firm work ethic, clean and sober and delivering on his promises (as Jeff Whitty always did, and let there be no mistaking it, one needs simply examine the evidence). You will find me very much the same as Jeff, but shrewder and wiser as to the ways of the world and the ways of men. I Philip Sidney model myself after Arthur Laurents, the great writer and musical craftsman and rascally sexual creature (if that sounds TMI just read his autobiographies!). Philip Sidney is a hard-ass, but a loving one, who only asks that people in his industry match his high standards, standards set by the Audience itself, for Philip Sidney simply wants to make a buck doing what he is good at, providing audience-pleasing fare that can run for years and years. (Avenue Q = fifteenth year of commercial life in New York City!) He has no patience for lazy entitled middlemen who simply expect to sit back and collect while they run their mouths on the phone — and then overreach their station and decide that THEY are the Ones That Matter in the world of commercial art. No, no. For such middlemen are the very problem preventing great art from making it on our stages and screens and phones and etc. I Philip Sidney do however ADORE the middlemen -- agents, lawyers, and producers all -- who with me BOW TO THE AUDIENCE and thus create magnificent works of art to run for millennia! That is my charge. A hooker just wants to get paid in this life. Thank you for including me in your life. Love, Philip SIdney"

Modeling himself after Arthur Fucking Laurents? Crikey!!

Lisa Rinna & Harry Hamlin as Dolly & Horace Lisa Vanderpump and Ken Todd as matinee Dolly & Horace Kyle Richards as Irene Molloy Dorit Kemsley as Minnie Fay ....and introducing ERIKA JAYNE as Ernestina!

Jeff Whitty = Philip Sidney = cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs

Why did the industry never award Debbie Reynolds? She was nominated for an Oscar, Tony and several Emmys and never won. Its unusual to be nominated for all the big ones and not win any of them.

Cuz she wuz a lezzie...

I think Patti would be awesome as Dolly.

Does anyone know will Maureen Moore standby for Peters in Dolly?

Jerry Does not want Patti as Dolly. Ever.

[quote]Jerry Does not want Patti as Dolly. Ever.

Doll, that's what Arthur said about Gypsy. And that happened.

Herman has passed on two productions with Patti before. Maybe this one will be the one that wears him down

Jerry won't get on a plane so they probably could do it and he'd never find out.

I want to write something and not be accused of being a loon or a freak

I have on occasion gossiped about Robert Fairchild and Ashley Day’s gay relationship on these boards.

Even though he’s cut WAY back, you can tell by so much of what Ashley posts the joy RF gives him and how happy he makes him. He’s dazzled by Robbie’s light. He wallowed in the light.

Nobody ever looked at me that way.

I wish them happiness and that is without snark or irony

So wait - Betty Buckley was tapped to play the witch? I never knew that! How far into it did she go? It would be amazing to hear how she sang the part back in the day.

I really doubt Kristin Chenoweth would play Dolly. After all the work she's had done I think she's still hoping to get leading lady roles for a few more years before jumping into something so senior. And after what she did with On The 20th Century, I'm not sure I buy her charms as much anymore. I really thought she would do great things in that show and she didn't. Maybe she should stick to concerts and TV appearances now. She has a glorious voice but the rest...?

I really hope it isn't Reba on the tour because I have zero interest in seeing her. I doubt Ebersole would even go on tour....

Dolly or Lauper would be cool....but unlikely.

Imagine if it was Kelly Bishop?

Hmmmmm....maybe Christine Beranski? (Did her The Good Wife spinoff ever happen?)

Kelly Bishop? She’d sell fewer tickets than Ebersole would.

Baranski is in her second season of “The Good Fight.”

Someone here said Cheno is in talks or was asked to do the new Molly Brown!

Thoughts?

[quote] Jerry Does not want Patti as Dolly. Ever.

Whedawhisablow

Adacymbascraaaaash

Adaspaklaslidaskyyyyyy!

Okay, thats funny R234

What planet do some of you queens live on?

You know nothing about how theater works.

Some of you have some bizarro idea that Broadway musicals need "HUGE" A list names to succeed or the tourists won't come.

Yes. The mega names currently starring in Chicago, and Phantom and Book of Mormon and Hamilton and every other musical on B'way that's NOT Hello Dolly are what's keeping those shows going.

And, the same goes for tours. A-list names DON'T do tours at all anymore. Not even many B or C names bother to hit the road. It's mostly no names in most road shows....which doesn't stop the 100 subscription theaters in the country for signing on to pretty much anything sent out from B'way. Christine Ebersole will sell FINE in "Hello Dolly!" The heat from the B'way revival and the fact that these are SUBSCRIPTION based seasons means it's pretty much fool proof. The trailers pull into town and do their week of shows and probably sell fairly close to capacity then move onto the next town.

It's not that difficult.

Linda Lavin as Dolly!

Lupone in Dolly would be ludicrous. Dolly would be so menacing that giving Horace beets at the Harmionia Gardens would come across as tense as the strudel scene in Ingluorious Basterds. You have to believe that Dolly is a charmer or else why would all these people have her around? It would only work if it was some sort of Dolly fever dream and she was really in an asylum imagining the matchmaking the whole time.

Actually, they could get John Doyle to re-imagine it and Patti could play the Tuba in the parade. Is Michael Cerveris available for Horace? Donna Lynne Champlin could play Minnie Fay and they wouldn't even need to resize the costumes.

I feel bad for stars that tour

Theater is a drag to do

And yes, I've done it

Movies are better.

Ask the greatest showman, he'll tell you!

[quote]You know nothing about how theater works.

And only yesterday you were telling us we didn't know how HOLLYWOOD works, as you pushed your theory of "The Post" triumphing at all the awards.

You're the one who doesn't know. For one thing, first nationals, or a-list tours, don't go into a town for one week. They sit down for several weeks/months in major cities like Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco. And you'd better believe they have a-list stars to sell those shows.

What happened to Colton Ryan as the understudy to dear Evan Hansen?

Dolly always had to have a well known popular star from TV or movies during its original run,

Channing was sui generis.

I see Ebersole killing it and not in a good way. And she is so wrong for the role in any case.

Some people said Bibi Osterwald was the best Dolly during the original run and she couldn't sell a ticket and had to be pulled.

For some reason Dolly always was and always will be a star vehicle. It doesn't make it on its own and never has. It was a point of pride for Prince in the 60s that Fiddler on its own unlike Dolly could sell tickets. The movie with Topol(who?) was a hit. They weren't looking for any star insurance.

LuPone's comic ability is too heavy for Dolly. It needs a lighter touch.

A male "Dolly" has been done numerous times in Europe. The problem is getting a guy who is right for the role. I saw Danny La Rue. He was terrible. Similarly, Harvey would not be right for "Dolly" either. I did not see Lee Roy Reams, but he would hardly sell tickets. Not sure who could play the role and not be miscast.

I have some info for poster above based on Betty Buckley’s conversation in the Danes of Broadway book.

She was the witch after San Diego but before Broadway. At the time, the witch had the rap, boom crunch and Sondheim had writtten Stay With Me specifically for Buckley.

Betty got into a big fight with what had been her friend, Director James LaPine. He claimed the witch was a lesbian in love with Rapunzel. She felt it was abusive mother. They never came to terms and she left (later in the book LuPone claims she heard Buckley was fired when she almost took the role)

Betty said she felt proud they kept her staging, and intentions and abusive mother stayed, but she felt horrible about the experience because it started the “Betty Buckley is difficult” rumors.

Grower Champion’s AGYG with Lucie Arnaz was such a triumph that she then got the lead in They’re Playing Our Song without any prior Broadway credits.

The "Betty Buckley is difficult" rumors began at least as early as Eight Is Enough, if not before. A lot of her craziness is probably rooted in battling Lorimar. It's a shame, as she's incredibly talented and unique, and about 90% of the time, pretty wonderful to deal with. For those who doubt it, she also does have a sense of humor, even if she doesn't go for laughs on stage.

[quote]A lot of her craziness is probably rooted in battling Lorimar.

I had no idea she was dealing with a disease.

Lucie Arnaz's national tour in SEESAW is what got her THEY'RE PLAYING OUR SONG.

I saw both the Debbie Reynolds version of ANNIE GET YOUR GUN and the Lucie Arnaz production. Except for Debbie and Lucie, it was primarily the same cast. But Lucie's version was much more exciting. I loved the Gower Champion choreography. His "Show Business" ballet was very thrilling.

Whitty used to be so cute.

Now, look at him

R182, I've seen Lauper doing this at EVERY concert of hers. She'll stop the show, reposition her ear piece, admonish her musicians (in full view of the audience) and then continue. AT EVERY CONCERT--and I've seen her about 6 times.

R188 It's called addiction. It's not like people are thinking logically about their use of meth.

It's like telling fat people, "Don't they realize they can have a heart attack and die? Why don't they just stop eating?"

R252, Just a thought, but it is probably staged. It may be something that she does for good luck or similar. A lot of performers have traditions such as this. (Don't get me started on Tony Curtis having to urinate on the set, and I mean *on* the set.)

r254 if that's staged, it's EVEN weirder. She comes across as a real bitch in those moments.

Why is anyone worried about getting another Dolly? Bernadette will close the show. I give it 5 months.

I believe a poster once wrote about Ellen Green collapsing on the stage and beating her fists on the floor during a song once. So I think changing an earpiece is probably actually low key

Despite the fact that she's wrong for it Dolly has to be on Patti's list of roles. I just don't see another Broadway revival appearing in her lifetime so this would be her only shot.

As to the Jerry Herman comments, he's obviously very ill or incapacitated. It's been years since he's attended an event or been photographed. Does he still have veto power and could he really veto Patti?

I agree that some of the posters don't understand how theater works. Or show biz. Dolly in Dolly? What on earth are you thinking? Dolly has never played anyone other than a sweet southern gal in her entire life, even in the movies she's made. She always plays "Dolly," HER dolly, not the one in the musical. Just because her name is Dolly does not mean she is right for the role. She would be horrendous. As far as touring, I was the one who mentioned Reba touring in it. I know it seems like a stretch, but she makes her money on the road as it is. She's been touring in concerts for a million years. She's a road warrior. Her last few cd's have not done well so she wouldn't get much of a chance to play anything from them out live -- fans want to hear the hits -- so she is likely bored with playing the same old songs over and over. So...touring with a musical would be a way to keep her on the road and in front of her fans, but not doing the same thing over and over again. I agree that A and B actors would not tour, but Reba is not an actor; she is a touring musician. And: the difference between shows like Book of Mormon and Phantom et al having long runs without big stars. When they opened the SHOW was the star. All of the publicity was about the show. I think they made a mistake putting all the focus on BETTE when she opened the show, so that SHE is the star and not the show. Because they made such a big deal about her, it feels that the show is somewhat "less than" if a much lesser name is cast in it. They made it sound like Bette was the reason to see it, and not because it's a well-constructed, tuneful show. I think that they can do some stunt casting in it, though, because the songs are not that difficult to sing, and whoever plays the role can get by on charm, and not necessarily on acting skills. Someone who has a strong personality could pull it off, if they play themselves to some degree and if their persona is not inconsistent with Dolly. Oddly enough, I think Lauper would be a great Dolly. She's ditzy and charismatic enough to pull it off, and she will add an authentic NY element to it. I don't think there is any way on God's green earth she would even think of it though: she's making tons of money from Kinky Boots, and I doubt she would want to do anything at this point that didn't originate with her, or use her music. (That said, I can see her doing a few weeks of, say, Sponge Bob because her music is in it. Dolly? Why would she do it? She's not trying to further an acting career.) There are tons of actresses who could do it. Meg Mullaly (or whatever her name is) would be great. Tons of people would be great, as long as they have charm and warmth, and name recognition.

Lauper is an awful choice.

If a Harvey had to play Dolly, I'd rather see Harvey Evans.

[quote]If a Harvey had to play Dolly, I'd rather see Harvey Evans.

I'd rather see Laurence Harvey.

or Elwood Dowd's Harvey!

How nice to know that r259 agrees with himself about people not knowing how theatre works. He should check with himself later today to make sure he's still in agreement with himself.

I'll bet something else he agrees with himself about is "Bedknobs and Broomsticks" being the best movie ever.

[quote]She's ditzy and charismatic enough to pull it off,

Dolly is not ditzy. She's clever and canny and has had this whole thing planned out for some time.

The only way Patti would follow Bernadette is with a shovel

[quote] I sincerely hope something else he agrees with everyone who deserves to live about is "Bedknobs and Broomsticks" being the best movie ever.

Fixed.

Buckley's difficult reputation on Eight is Enough had nothing to do with Lorimar but rather her cocaine addiction. She was friends with Belushi and was rumored to be partying with him the night he died at the Chateau Marmont. It also didn't help that she had an affair with Willie Aames and then tried to get him fired after it fizzled.

[quote]A lot of her craziness is probably rooted in battling Lorimar.

Gee, you think?

[quote]I’m really surprised Robert Fairchild didn’t take off more. He’s handsome, a dancer and yet married/straight. He seemed to fit into that Hugh Jackman demographic, but his career isn’t as big as it could have been.

Are you serious? He has only been focusing on theater, rather than ballet, for the past few years. Give him a chance.

[quote]I’m really surprised Audra has never been in a Sondheim show in NY. She played the Beggar Woman in the Emma Thompson production of "Sweeney Todd."

She also played the Beggar Woman in the previous NY Philharmonic production with Patti LuPone and George Hearn. And she also played Clara in a 2005 concert production of PASSION for Lincoln Center's American Songbook, with Patti and Michael Cerveris. Both of those were directed by Lonny Price. But you still have a point -- those were concerts, and Audra hasn't yet done a run of a full production of a Sondheim show in New York.

[quote]Lupone in Dolly would be ludicrous. Dolly would be so menacing that giving Horace beets at the Harmionia Gardens would come across as tense as the strudel scene in Ingluorious Basterds. You have to believe that Dolly is a charmer or else why would all these people have her around?

I don't think LuPone is perfect casting for Dolly, but she can be charming and funny onstage when that's what's called for.

[quote]The difference between shows like Book of Mormon and Phantom et al having long runs without big stars. When they opened the SHOW was the star. All of the publicity was about the show. I think they made a mistake putting all the focus on BETTE when she opened the show, so that SHE is the star and not the show. Because they made such a big deal about her, it feels that the show is somewhat "less than" if a much lesser name is cast in it.

When a big star opens a show, he or she almost always the case that the big star gets most of the publicity. One big, weird exception was Josh Groban in THE GREAT COMET. I guess they were trying to position the show rather than Groban as the real star, so it could continue after he left. But we all know what happened then...

Wasn't Betty Lynn obsessed with one of the girls playing her stepdaughters on 8?

Lily Tomlin as Dolly.

Audra hasn't been in a Sondheim show because he writes for white characters.

At this point, Audra has transcended race (as has much of the Bway audience), so it would be great to see her in such roles as Dolly, Eliza, etc. Not sure what Sondheim role she would be good for.

Marie Osmond as Dolly.

Did Jerry Herman ever make the trip to see Bette in Dolly?

[quote] Lily Tomlin as Dolly.

I guess John Travolta won't be going back to Broadway to be her Horace. Since we're getting really silly, how about Barry Manilow? Lily's voice is not that bad here:

Speaking of Lucie Arnaz, why not her for Dolly? She's got the wit and pipes to pull it off and she can sell tix as she did when she went into Pippin a few years back.

R259 here. Ditzy might have not been the right word. Yes, Dolly is cunning, but she also has a little bit of off-kilter charm that you get swept up in, and I should have used a word other than ditzy to describe it.

And I have never seen Bed Knobs and Broomsticks, and have no interest in seeing it. I have my opinions, and I expressed them. I have no idea what the point of R269's snark is.

[quote] Did Jerry Herman ever make the trip to see Bette in Dolly?

I don't think he did. If he attended it wasn't documented or posted about on social media, so it's unlikely.

As I understand it from someone who has worked with her, Carol Channing wanted to come and there were overtures from her people but ultimately it did not happen because she is in too bad of shape.

[quote]And I have never seen Bed Knobs and Broomsticks, and have no interest in seeing it.

Your loss.

Take your vile hate speech elsewhere r280.

Why does Bedknobs and Broomsticks derail threads? It's a fun, inane, silly movie.

How does a male Dolly make any sense at all? Is it like a Mrs. Doubtfire situation where nobody realizes it's a man dressed up as a woman? I guess that could work. Cast Nathan Lane and a clueless Christopher Walken as Horace.

[quote] Why does Bedknobs and Broomsticks derail threads? It's a fun, inane, silly movie.

New baby syndrome.

I think it’s interesting that Patti LuPone is arguable the biggest theatre star of her generation (Peters and Buckley had more tv exposure) and YET Jerry Herman, Arthur Laurents (until the end) Sondheim (they dislike each other and he famously passed over on her for the Sunday Bernadette replacement) and Webber have banned her from their works.

They may have disliked each other at one time, but I think LuPone and Sondheim are at least social friends now and have been for awhile.

Faith Prince would be fine as Dolly on the road.

Benj Pasek just tweeted that Queer Eye For The Straight Guy meant a lot to him as a young person. Sweet.

speaking of limited talent...oh, we werent?

Patti LuPone has no nuance to her voice. She's a total belter. So her voice isn't suited to Herman melodies. Her diction has always been terrible and good diction is needed for Sondheim (it's all about the words). So really, Patti was only suited for Lloyd Webber's work and the Sunset Boulevard debacle ended that.

Tony-winning Faith Prince would be a perfect Dolly. As I would have been perfection in the movie version....except....unfortunately I died.

R288: Yet another reason for me to boycott those dreary leaden "anthems" of a cultural counterrevolution.

[quote]How does a male Dolly make any sense at all? Is it like a Mrs. Doubtfire situation where nobody realizes it's a man dressed up as a woman? I guess that could work. Cast Nathan Lane and a clueless Christopher Walken as Horace.

Does a woman playing Peter Pan bother you as well? The tradition of men playing women's roles comes out of the same tradition. The basic concept in the 19th century was that women were too vain to be foolish or unattractive on stage, and did not have the physical ability to do physical comedy. Those roles were often played by men. It was simply an actor (male) who was playing a character that happened to be female. I guess it is indicative of how screwed up we are in the USA that you can not see past gender and the character would have to be a male character impersonating a woman.

On that note, it is interesting just how screwed up America has been about gender on stage. The male chorus as we know it really did not exist before Floradora in 1899. Shortly thereafter, there were many editorials decrying the existence of the male chorus. What kind of man would dance in the chorus for a living? How can a man be a sexual object like a chorus girl? From the editorials I have read, the attitude was really fucked up. Literally, male choruses in musicals would destroy American manhood.

[quote] On that note, it is interesting just how screwed up America has been about jenn-durr on stage.

That's because jenn-durr is a hetero male-imposed war on women and gay men.

Oh Honey, Jenn Durr sounds like a stripper on a blue highway.

It is also a mechanism for enforcing the straightriarchy, which enables both the patriarchy and the privileging of heterosexual women over both gay men and lesbians.

Lupone and Sondheim were social friends until Passion when he screamed at her in front of everyone because he couldn’t understand her. Monochromatic mush he yelled.

The friendship completely went kaput after Company when he gave her some shitty notes at the closing after party.

She says in the Nothing Like a Dame book that she doesn’t think he likes her anymore.

If Patti were a man and had a last name that ended in a consonant, she would not be allowed to get away with a lot of what she gets away with.

I can't understand the brain malfunction that causes people to misspell the perfectly decent English word "gender".

I mean if you want to announce to the world that transgender issues have completely scrambled your brain, misspelling "gender" is a very useful tool.

Oh, great. Let's get into a discussion of gender now. That'll make this a stellar thread.

Has anyone seen Afterglow?

Trans is a choice, gay isn't. All trans propaganda is hate speech against women and gay men, including but not limited to that vile, hateful, ugly unword and all the sexist stereotyping it stands for. Femininity is a means of forced submission that not all women wish to partake in but that men are discouraged form participating in whether they actually want to or not.

I miss the casual androgyny of the 1970s and 1980s where you could just wear what you liked and call it a day.

G*nd*r is hate speech. The more you defend its use, the more you reveal yourself as a homophobic sexist piece of shit. Gay men's and lesbians' bodies are being destroyed by you monsters.

JUST. SAY. GAY.

JUST. SAY. SEX.

Isn't Patti doing "Company" in London in the near future? Sondheim would most likely have veto power if he didn't want her to do it.

Isn't Patti doing "Company" in London in the near future? Sondheim would most likely have veto power if he didn't want her.

ENOUGH ALREADY!!! Now back to the theatre.......

He allows her to be cast in his works but then rips her apart with horrible notes during and after.

She went on record as saying after the last time, she thought to herself “never again” however after she reflects on it she values his opinion, but his delivery is brutal.

He LOVED Lee Remick though and he loves Imelda.

Based on the NT Follies, I can't understand his love for Imelda at all. The Remick thing is an entirely different kettle of fish and has nothing to do with talent.

For Dolly: Jeff Whitty as Dolly, Philip Sidney as Horace and Burning man as the Harmonia Gardens

I don't understand the love for Imelda in Follies. She's not delicate and light enough. She attempts to lighten up her acting energy and ends up playing Sally like she's retarded. Sarah Lancashire would have been a better choice.

[quote]Did Jerry Herman ever make the trip to see Bette in Dolly?

There's only one trip in Jerry Herman's future, and it involves a hearse.

[quote]Speaking of Lucie Arnaz, why not her for Dolly? She's got the wit and pipes to pull it off and she can sell tix as she did when she went into Pippin a few years back.

Lucie Arnaz definitely has the wit and the pipes for Dolly, yes, but I don't know about her ticket-selling abilities. She wasn't the attraction in "Pippin," it was the show itself with its Cirque de Soleil vibe that sold those tickets.

[quote]There's only one trip in Jerry Herman's future, and it involves a hearse.

How bad is he? Are they saying Kadish yet?

And R303 comes in to prove my point in [bold]FLYING COLORS.[/bold]

And Hi Matt. Got any unhinged obsessive rants about the goyim you'd like to make?

Shut up and grow up, R314, you insidious pig.

Goyism is racism, heterosexuality is perversion, and none of it belongs on Broadway. I am not saying this to shock you, I really do consider non-gays and non-Jews inferior.

You're disgusting, r316. Talk about a pig!

Talk about a pig!

[quote] Talk about a pig!

Which one do you want to talk about? Piglet? Wilbur? Miss Piggy? Babe?

Wow, you really have lost weight, Matt. Good job!

Gentiles are not funny.

Did anyone see the musical about actress Jean Seberg when it was done in London (I think in 1981) ? Just the thought of a story covering her entire fame is exhausting. It seems like when a show focuses on a famous person, the first tendancy is to try to show the whole scope of their life. Marilyn Monroe, Jean Seberg etc. had interesting PERIODS in their lives that would probably be more dramatically rewarding to hone in on.

But anyway, was JEAN SEBERG good, bad, or meh?

I had some very interesting periods and the white diaphanous dresses to prove it.

MARILYN: TAMPONS ON TAP: A NEW MUSICAL

Starring Cathy Rigby

Wasn't alike Stephanie Lawrence the one who played Jean Seaburg?

I hope Disney never makes minipads or they might actually make them honest-to-goodness Minnie pads. I wouldn't put it past them; there was once Old Yeller dog food and someone claimed their dogs died after the ate it.

And what's the relationship to theatre, r326?

Hello, Kitty!

r327 What's your relationship to a human being?

I was commenting on the commercial. And as for its relevance to theatre, Disney's got their four-fingered gloved hands in that along with the consumer products industry. Where will these billion-dollar impulse purchases end?

You’re a bore, r330.

[quote]I sincerely hope something else he agrees with [bold]everyone who deserves to live[/bold] about is "Bedknobs and Broomsticks" being the best movie ever.

It’s getting clearer and clearer that at some point we are going to have to call the cops on this loon.

Or just stop talking about him. The most I've heard about B&B is you lot talking about the "loon" as if you're deliberately trying to set him off. You're like people who respond to trolls and then complain about the trolling. If you don't like it, stop feeding him.

You do realize that he dumps his cookies and trolls even without provocation.

But it’s getting clearer that he’s planning violence. He has been making physical threats, claiming certain groups of people don’t deserve to live, etc.

At some point, we will have to get authorities involved before he goes postal.

I think it's great that Dolly cancelled 6 performances this week to give Bernie and Victor plenty of on stage rehearsal time with the cast instead of rushing them right in after Bette and DHP left. As opposed to poor Donna Murphy who had her put in the day of her first performance.

Speaking of Dolly and the person who asked if Maureen Moore would be Bernadette's standby the answer is no. Carmen Ruby Floyd will be the new Dolly understudy along with Jessica Sheridan. Maureen Moore would actually make a wonderful Dolly. She was an outstanding Rose.

R242, Bibi Osterwald was the standby for the role of Dolly. She was never the "official" Dolly. She went on when the actresses playing Dolly did not appear. She was replaced as the cover by Marie Bryant, Novella Nelson, and Thelma Carpenter when Pearl Bailey took over the role of Dolly as it was felt it would be inappropriate for a white woman to be Dolly in an all-black cast though Bibi Osterwald did standby for a short while between Marie Bryant (who was deemed not up to the job) and Novella Nelson. Bibi returned to full-time standby for Phyllis Diller and Ethel Merman.

[quote] I agree that A and B actors would not tour, but Reba is not an actor; she is a touring musician.

Six seasons as the star of a sitcom say otherwise.

Can anyone explain KING KONG the musical? Who thought this was a good idea?

Are we depending on this giant puppet being interesting for 2.5 hours? I'm embarassed. War Horse this is not.

The Craig Lucas book really brings Kong to life!!!

Poor Bibi Osterwald. She must have felt like she finally hit the big time when she got a top ten ratings hit on TV, Bridget Loves Bernie. And then CBS canceled it after only a year (can’t remember why), and Bibi went back to only being known by the queens who listened to Ben Bagley albums.

Carol Channing could have used some Litter Green in her dressing cubicle when she went on while she had dysentery.

Buckley was fired during Into the Woods rehearsals cuz she was late all the time.

I had no idea Carol Channing’s son, Chan Lowe, is an editorial cartoonist in Miami.

Chan and Channing are not on speaking terms

That King Kong clip looks awful! The puppet doesn't even look like a gorilla; it looks more like some sort of sea monster. And that song? Oy!

[quote]The most I've heard about B&B is you lot talking about the "loon" as if you're deliberately trying to set him off.

All the while proving the low moral character of people who dislike that movie. It's you the cops should be called on.

King Kong was emotionally inert, but wow did it have some stunning visuals. If you didn't like that song you'd be in for a long night, easily the best part of the show.

I think it died a pretty hard death in Australia, so I wouldn't expect it to come to Broadway unless somebody was really intent on losing money.

Fortunately, we know his name, and someone has to know his address.

[quote] Chan and Channing are not on speaking terms

I wonder if there's a 'Dolly Dearest' book in the offing once Carol leaves us

Here's a bit of Broadway gossip: Carol Channing's husband employed a person to sit in the audiences of Hello Dolly and if a standing ovation hadn't occurred by the time Carol came out for the curtain call, that person was supposed to stand up and start the standing ovation.

R351, that is a fairly common practice. Julie Harris hired claques frequently.

Now standing ovations occur as a means for bored Broadway patrons to get the show over with. People stand, while putting on their coats, because it's a passive-aggressive way of saying "I want to get out of here."

R344 we need to hear more about his twin “Swing”

That's not what I heard, r351. It was Lowe himself who used to do it.

R355, it is kind of hard to be a one person claque. If one person stands, he just looks weird. If three people stand, others will follow. I am sure that Lowe lead the claque, but I bet there were others paid as well.

Has any show ever gone through more creatives than King Kong? It's had three announced book writers, three announced directors (plus at least one that escaped mention in the press) and I can't even count how many songwriters.

So thrilled to see Isabel Keating will be the new Morrible in WICKED. Very talented and always wonderful!!

Liv Ullman said Martin Charnin hated her so much that he had someone come in during her curtain call in I remember Mama, he had someone come in to boo her.

[quote]At some point, we will have to get authorities involved before he goes postal.

I'm more worried about someone doing that to me, frankly, and using DL to find me.

He lives in Sacramento, of all places. Probably has never even attended a show in NY. I’d feel more pity if he wasn’t a colossal asshole.

I've been to plenty of theater. I've done theater. I've done film. I've done TV. Just on a very small scale.

If I had unlimited time and money I would see as many of these shows as I could. You need to to be able to afford to these days. But that's why I depend on places like this: to know what there is to see and who's who then and now.

So there you go. Our resident monster has never even seen a Broadway show in NY in person. That's why he makes so much shit up.

During the last tour, Charles Lowe requested that the ushers stand during Carol's entrance. He always had a house seat and would stand as well. Of course, like the sheep audiences are, it worked.

I remember seeing Kiss of the Spiderwoman on tour and the entrance applause for Chits started with the sound board operator.

[quote]He lives in Sacramento, of all places. Probably has never even attended a show in NY. I’d feel more pity if he wasn’t a colossal asshole.

No he doesn't. He lives in Salinas, John Steinbeck's hometown. That's where he did that cable access tv show where he played someone assistant and for some reason was dressed in drag. The person who found him found him via google because there were certain phrases he used to use all the time and he googled them and it came up with Matt.

Cyberstalking is a crime.

I'm just reporting what others discovered after you were the one who was dumb enough to spout your tired goyim rant shit all over the internet using your real name, toots.

On a place where "die in a grease fire" is a catchphrase, you need to learn to distinguish between literal and figurative speech.

I don't even own a gun and you're thinking I'm going to go out and kill people just because your insults, slurs, and threats make me angry enough to want to? I'm not that stupid. Whatever you dish out to me you will get back in return, bubby. You are the instigator, not I.

There will be violence, but it will not be in the form of lone gunmen shooting innocent people. It will be when gays, Jews, and people of color unite as one and rise up together against the oppressor classes.

What's good enough for movie Nazis is damn sure good enough for real life ones.

Horrifying

Having seen Dolly with Channing several times, there was really no need to encourage standing O's. The show is structured to make them happen.

Oh yes I have, R11. I go to theater whenever I go to New York.

R374 was intended for R372's projection of his personality problems onto me. It is normal to get angry when being subjected to hate speech. Only Uncle Toms think nonviolence is an effective solution.

Please Matt, stop with the vile hate speech.

It's not hate speech when directed at bigots, R376. Then it's payback.

It is not hate speech to call out the oppressor classes on their acts of oppression.

It is not hate speech to throw back at them what they throw at us on a daily fucking basis.

Gays, blacks, and Jews have earned the right to retaliate against systematic Aryan hetero-gentile bigotry. If you think otherwise, then you are a collaborator.

What whites, gentiles, and heterosexuals have done to everyone who isn't is unforgivable. They're inhuman monsters. Stop defending them. Join me in my quest to stop them instead of making me look like the bad guy. I'm trying to save gay people from extinction here and you're blaming me for defending my people against genocidal bigots?

And saying "You're no better than they are" is self-loathing crap that not only enables the oppressor classes, but smugly tricks people into thinking such false moral equivalences constitute progress.

I hate heterosexuals because they are bigoted perverts who project their bigotry and perversion onto us. I hate whites because they project their inferiority onto people of color, and even if they're pretty on the outside they can still be ugly on the inside. I hate gentiles because they stole the Torah and distorted it to attack the people they hate, including the people to whom God gave the Torah in the first place: the Jews.

No Jews, no gays, no Broadway.

Christ, what a nutcase.

Thanks for proving my point, R381. Someday it will be legal to beat the shit out of you for saying things like that to a differently abled person, and I will devote the rest of my life to making it legal to physically retaliate against verbal violence.

When the Social Justice War comes, the likes of you will be Public Enemy #1, R381.

Bibi was never an official Dolly but I read that Merrick was interested in making her one because the people who saw her said she was fabulous, Merrick thought so too and she would be cheap compared to the names he was forced to bring in. I'm assuming that when she did go on a ton of people were asking for refunds and he knew it would never work.

Though not around at this time I'm assuming more people knew who Osterwald(recordings, TV and World Of Henry Orient) was than Mimi Hines yet Hines kept Funny Girl going for more than a year after Streisand left which I find kind of strange. Maybe somebody who was going to Broadway at that time can say if Hines did indeed have enough name recognition to keep a star vehicle going on Broadway successfully. Or was Funny Girl the kind of hit which at the time propelled itself unlike Dolly.

R384, Audiences in the '60s were more likely to know who Mimi Hines was. She and her then-husband, Phil Ford, made frequent appearances on the Ed Sullivan show and other TV variety shows of the period. You would never have seen Bibi on Sullivan's show, though you may have seen her during one of the show's commercials.

In fact, it was during one of Hines and Ford's appearances on Sullivan's show that Mimi was surprised (on camera) with the news that she had been chosen to take over the role of Fanny Brice on Broadway. She seemed genuinely surprised, so I assume it wasn't something being staged for the TV cameras (and for the publicity).

Did Sullivan have any actual talent besides making connections and naming names to the HUAC?

Like the strippers in "Gypsy," Sullivan's talent was that he had no talent.

But Sullivan had a sense of humor about himself and his having become an unlikely TV star, and he often had comedians on his show who impersonated him. Sullivan initially achieved fame as a newspaper columnist.

R380 sounds interesting

and I'm not even Jewish

I read an interview with Bibi ages ago where she said she did go on for Pearl Bailey. And, Bridget Loves Bernie was cancelled because, if you can imagine, Jewish and Christian groups were outraged that there was a sitcom about a married interfaith couple. Sponsors caved and the show was pulled.

[quote]And, Bridget Loves Bernie was cancelled because, if you can imagine, Jewish and Christian groups were outraged that there was a sitcom about a married interfaith couple. Sponsors caved and the show was pulled.

And then 20 years later [italic]The Nanny[/italic] became a hit on that same network.

[quote]Like the strippers in "Gypsy," Sullivan's talent was that he had no talent.

But did he have a gimmick?

B Loves B should have been pulled because it was about a lesbian married to an abusive man.

That had more to do with the casting than the writing, R395. It didn't hurt Meredith Baxter's career in the long run if she did two successful series after it. David Birney, not so much.

Isn't Carol's son's full name Channing? Anyone know why they don't speak?

Also, wasn't Carol's longtime husband gay or am I misremembering?

Also, there is something going on in this thread that's not about theatre and no one cares.

[quote]there is something going on in this thread that's not about theatre and no one cares.

Then why bring it up?

[quote]Also, wasn't Carol's longtime husband gay or am I misremembering?

I remember reading at the time of his death that they'd only had sex twice throughout their marriage.

[quote]In particular, the type of clowning that Lane can do was almost irreplaceable. The show proved much more vulnerable than expected, and its last few years, it was heavily discounted and playing to half-filled houses.

And when Lane came back to do the movie, it flopped.

Didn’t Lane refer to the misguided Producers movie as the most expensive Lincoln Center Theater Archive Film ever made?

R394, It was I, Tessie Tura, who was famed for my revolution in dance. Mazeppa bumped it with a trumpet.

[quote] Didn’t Lane refer to the misguided Producers movie as the most expensive Lincoln Center Theater Archive Film ever made?

They were afraid to change it for film yet they cut one of the key songs.

Let's face it, anonymous posting doesn't work.

DL admin needs to set up specific accounts for each user. It's only way to keep lunatics from smearing shit on the walls over and over and over and over and over.

It's nonsense that Sondheim doesn't like LuPone. She's sung in Passion and will sing in the London Company.

LuPone has plenty of nuance. Her Mama Rose was incredible for the sex appeal and nuance she gave to the role.

[quote]Her Mama Rose was incredible for the sex appeal and nuance she gave to the role.

She must have forgotten to bring the sex appeal and nuance the night I saw it. All I got was bombast and shouting.

.....and yet Abie's Irish Rose was one of Broadway's longest running hits.

"Bridget Loves Bernie" was also a hit during its brief run. It wasn't canceled because of low ratings.

If you have to look up your information on google you're just plain lazy.

If you don't know something ask on DL and one of us theater queens will give you the correct information.

And it's Florodora not Floradora.

B Loves B had a prime timeslot on CBS Saturday nights. And it was a critical success. I'm old enough to have seen it first run and even my young gayling self remembers how charming it was and how much my parents loved it. David Birney always gave me a Robert Reed vibe and acted like he was far above the material. But I did love him in the TV remake of Valley of the Dolls.

As a gayling I had a huge huge crush on Birney. He was a TV actor through and through and lucky to be one when there are so many who can't even make it that far.

Was very disappointed to read he was a 5 star douchebag self important actor. His charm and good looks had me fooled. Well I was just a boy.

Wasn't Bibi also Channing's understudy in Gentlemen Prefer Blondes? And, let's not forget the first Dolly standby was Miss JoAnne Worley.

Could JoAnne still play Dolly, I wonder? (I said several THEATRE GOSSIP editions ago, that Mullally and Offerman should do the tour.) Any word from rehearsals for Peters, Garber and that Britboy they imported? Has Creel tried to get in his canned goods yet?

The thing that is never mentioned about Mimi Hines is that her husband, Phil Ford, joined Funny Girl along with her and played Eddie Ryan. They were a vaudeville comedy act (Ford & Hines) who performed all over the place prior to Funny Girl. I don't know if advertising at the time reflected that the two were joining the cast and had been famous as a comedy duo.

Haven't heard much about JoAnne lately. I have a feeling the new leads will be great and keep the show running for the next several months. Peters, like Nathan Lane, is one of the few broadway stars who can still pull in an audience. She kept A Little Night Music running after CZJ left, right?

Jo Anne Worley is 80 now. Probably doesn't have a Dolly in her anymore.

[quote]to a differently abled person

You're not differently abled, Matt, you're just an asshole hiding behind that appellation.

So what did Hines do after Funny GirI? lt seems it stopped her career dead. I don't remember her doing TV when I was a boy.

I loved that scene in That Girl when Marlo and Ted can't get in to see Mame(TV stars couldn't get house seats?) so they go to see the good seats available for this evening's performance Funny Girl with Mimi Hines.

Oh to have been going to Broadway in '66...

In the '80s. Mimi starred in a bus-and-truck tour of "Hello, Dolly!" A friend of mine was one of the musicians.

[quote]So what did Hines do after Funny GirI? lt seems it stopped her career dead.

Hines was 35 when she did Funny Girl and, unlike Barbra, had a huge career behind her. I think after Funny Girl she did a massive amount of touring and nighclub acts.

Oh, and Phil Ford was in "Dolly" with her, even though they had been divorced for years and Mimi was married to someone else.

IIRC when Mimi and Phil went into Funny Girl, Phil was given 3rd star billing over the title which was different than the original Eddie Ryan had when played by Danny Meehan (whet?).

Mimi Hines was a wonderful comedienne and singer but made her career principally in Vegas and clubs across the country with the occasional TV variety show appearance. She went back to where she came from after Funny Girl

Mimi's buck teeth were to her what Barbra's nose was to her.

Still, in her heart r422, she was still a Broadway Baby......

So google me this. Ray Stark told Babs if she wanted to do the film of Funny Girl she had to sign a multi film contract with him which she hated doing but she felt she was trapped.

Now if she refused who in the world was going to do the role? Shirley MacLaine? Was Stark crazy or Babs a sucker?

Can't it be both?

[quote] Now if she refused who in the world was going to do the role? Shirley MacLaine? Was Stark crazy or Babs a sucker?

Put it into perspective. At the time, Barbra was a Broadway actress with a few records under her belt. Being a leading lady in her first Hollywood film was a huge step and would boost her career to new levels. Barbra would have done anything to get the Funny Girl film role. Think about it. How many other actresses got the leading role in their very first Hollywood film?

Ice Cube? ICE CUBE????

Ok R427 but who do you think Stark would have cast if Streisand refused to sign the contract? What names did she feel would be a threat? It was a singing role. Who else could have done it?

Was Maclaine going to sing Don't Rain on my Parade? I can't think of another box office star of the period who might have done it.

[quote]What names did she feel would be a threat? It was a singing role. Who else could have done it?

Mimi Hines

Lainie Kazan

Carol Burnett

Liza Minnelli

Anne Bancroft dubbed by Lisa Kirk

It's not like Barbra Streisand was a household name. They could have sold the movie with Omar Sharif's name on it and chose any funny lady and dubbed her singing.

[quote] Her Mama Rose was incredible for the sex appeal

Only a gay man could've written that sentence.

Mitzi McCall and Charlie Brill were a latter-day version of Phil Ford and Mimi Hines.

Anne Meara and Jerry Stiller were a less funny version of Phil Ford and Mimi Hines.

Hard for the young'uns here to believe, but when Streisand came on the scene she was thought to be highly unphotogenic by many.

Do you know how much war paint and attention to lighting goes into getting Barbra to just "photogenic" r434?

LuPone sexy? Did you see them tits in Summer of Sam?

LuPone looks like she'd do anal.

Streisand sure as hell looks photogenic in Doc. I can't imagine Bogdanovich was spending hours on every scene just to light her.

And she had already made numerous appearances on TV shows and specials to get a sense of how she looked on camera before Funny Girl..

I guess it is with hindsight that the above list of candidates for Brice looks ludicrous. Maybe at the time they were serious possibilities.

[quote]LuPone looks like she'd do anal.

Oh, believe me, when I lived with her, she did.

[quote]LuPone looks like she'd do anal.

Ooh! That’s my second lesson from Gavin tonight after rehearsal!

[quote]Anne Bancroft dubbed by Lisa Kirk

Anne Bancroft had a pretty good singing voice, which she showed off in a couple of TV specials. I don’t think she would’ve needed any voice ghosting.

Patti LuPone likes scat. She sings too.

What else are you learning Charlie S? Having a good time in America? Has your Equity Dep given you the boilerplate Victor Garber disclaimer/warning yet?

[quote]You're not differently abled, Matt, you're just an asshole hiding behind that appellation.

Shows what you know.

R352, Julie Harris did not hire claques.

It is entirely possible to be disabled AND an asshole--and in some cases the disability and the assholism are unrelated. Sometimes the disability (particularly a personality disorder) manifests itself in antisocial behavior, as in Matt's posts. (I'm sure most DLers already have figured it out.) I find Matt's obsessive and insulting posts as irritating as anyone and I will admit I have risen to his bait more times than I wish. So here's a suggestion: what if we tried treating his posts like those blips that occasionally interrupt cable TV because of interference, and then let the thread right itself. And just ignore his posts, since Muriel either won't or can't find a way to regulate his access to posts. I don't know much about technology, so it may be that Matt always finds work-arounds.

It is frustrating, but I also suspect it doesn't help to try to be reasonable with him (I've tried to no avail) or to be nasty (even if it helps to let off steam). His impairments seem so embedded that he is impervious to anyone's better angels--including his own, if they exist.

^nice try, Matt

[quote]Has your Equity Dep given you the boilerplate Victor Garber disclaimer/warning yet?

Too late. Charlie's already made his debut under my poker table, servicing my guests.

[italic]Fraggle Rock: The Musical[/italic]

If Spongebob and Willy Wonka can get backers, what's stopping them from doing this?

R446 is the obsessive anti-Aspie troll.

Can WITCHIE-POO! be far behind?

R450 I'm neither nor the anti-Aspie. I'm puzzled how you get the latter, as I'm advocating for a more thoughtful way of understanding Matt's really off putting style--hardly what an anti-Aspie would do. And Matt would far more defensive and insulting. Well, just goes to show me--some of the posters are just as nasty and damaged as Matt would appear to be.

R452, do you really not know that r450 was Matt? Bringing his Aspie-ness back into the conversation.

I know Garber has lots of fans (he's a frau favorite) , but I've always found him dull. DHP is a far more deft comedian. And though Garber was once hot and sexy, he's aged strangely. He was too tightly pulled in his last facelift - his large head is Charlie-Brown round and his already huge ears seem even bigger. And his "Horace" mustache looks like a white fuzzy caterpillar.

Of course, he is well-known for his huge cock, which negates all of the the above somewhat.

Garber in the 70s was truly dreamy in Deathtrap and Sweeney but today there is no vestige of that beauty. He is one strange unpleasant looking fellow.

You can in no way imagine that he could once set hearts aflutter.

Victor in Death Trap

Isn’t that called aging? He still looks good (for a man of his age)

R445, yes Julie Harris did hire claques. I can say for certain that she hire them the the Stacey Keach Hamlet in 1964 and for Skyscraper. I am sorry if that busts some bubble of yours, but Julie Harris is far too random a choice for me to be making it up. If you read my post, I obviously know how claques work and if you connect the dots, yes, I have been hired to act as one on several occasions.

Boy is that ever disappointing.

I've seen teamsters used as claques at the Met(as in wearing a teamster jacket.) I was in standing room and right before the final act of Rigoletto one of them screamed in my ear BRAVO MAESTRO!!! and then disappeared through the doors.

If I had the money I would have put out a hit on him and Nello Santi.

[quote]If I had the money I would have put out a hit on him and Nello Santi.

Perfect opportunity for crowd-funding.

So, r458.....I gather from your post that you are representative of one of the claque cliques? If I'm to understand correctly, your ilk basically whores out your ability to stand and clap?

R461, Yes, I was. And, yes, that is basically the situation. No shame at all if it gets me into Shakespeare in the Park w/o standing in line.

Anne Bancroft turned down the stage show of Funny Girl so its unlikely she would have been offered the film.

Love Bancroft on film, wish I'd ever gotten to see her on stage

How does one become a claque member?

R465, I got into the "business" because I knew Cheryl Crawford. I have no idea how one would do it today.

James Comey went to see Come From Away. I wonder if he was doing research in case he has to make a run for the border.

I met Mimi Hines several years ago in the Hamptons. Shortly after the introduction, she told me (and the few people around us) that she was the only woman Wayland Flowers ever slept with. This was apropos of nothing, and had all of us scratching our heads.

Anne Bancroft didn't "turn down" Funny Girl.

She was set to play it till Jule Styne heard Barbra in one of those little clubs she started out in. Ray Stark--contrary to what is sometimes heard--was wild for Barbra, too.

Moreover, Bob Merrill and Bancroft had been lovers at one time and it ended badly. But Barbra's voice (and personal style, so right for Fanny) was enough.

R461 How exactly does being in standing room make you a member of a claque?

According to the Douglass K. Daniel biography Bancroft didn't like the script or the songs for Funny Girl.

Could the bitch even sing? Did she ever do a musical?

R452, condescending prejudiced twits earn every insult they receive every hour of every day. With interest. You posted:

[quote] as I'm advocating for a more thoughtful way of understanding Matt's really off putting style

You posted:

[quote]and in some cases the disability and the assholism are unrelated

You're the asshole and you need to stop projecting your assholism onto me and onto others. And your disability is the inability to see that.

Bernadette interview on Playbill about Dolly.

r457: Some handsome people age in strange ways, even if one keeps oneself in excellent shape.

Someone who is getting older and handsomer is John Dossett. Lucky (talented) Michelle Pawk!

Here's Anne Bancroft singing.

Well, that was a thread killer r476.

I've fallen and I can't get up!

And they said it was dead when it reached double digits.

How Follies/Phyllis r476.

Compared to Bonnie Franklin and Linda Lavin, how was it?

Ugh! Is there anything more tiresome than an actor spouting off narcissistic drivel about making a character their own? Play the part as written Bernadette sweetie like every Dolly before you and we’ll be grateful. I think I speak for audiences everywhere when I say we couldn’t bear to sit through another “reinvented “classic musical role like we had to in Annie Get Your Gun and Gypsy.

Rewriting a stage play for film is one thing. Film is less bound by the limitations of a theater's physical space. But rewriting a stage play for the stage is opening a pandora's box.

I'd also like to become a hired claque.

Victor Garber was atrocious in the Encores Follies, but I'd still love to watch him and his man fuck.

The claque cliques....

Bernie has developed a bad case of self-regard.

I thought Funny Girl was written for me and I turned it down, bitches?!?

The last movie Streisand made as part of her contract with Stark was Funny Lady which she detested and did not want to do. However, she sucked it up and did it. After filming wrapped she gifted Stark and mirror with PAID IN FULL written in lipstick. Personally, I enjoy Funny Lady more than Funny Girl.

[quote]I think I speak for audiences everywhere

Actually, no you don't. There are plenty of people, myself included, who loved the Mendes "Gypsy." AGYG was a piece of shit, but it had less to do with her and all to do with the hideous adaptation/direction/choreography - plus orchestrations that made it sound like a third rate Vegas floor show.

There is no way that girl is going to play my mother! Ray you take care of this.

Merrick approached Mae West about being a replacement Dolly. She said yes on the condition she could rewrite the script or at least her own lines. (She nearly always wrote her own material.) Merrick said no and negotiations ended.

Speaking of male Dollies, Merrick also offered the part to Jack Benny with his old friend George Burns as Vandergelder. Benny turned him down.

Jesus Christ, THIS is what had you two queens in a tizzy?

[quote]Nothing's in stone. It's for everybody to create, which is so smart, because you don't want to stick somebody with someone else's style. You want it to feel fresh… for that person to create Dolly or to create Horace.”

Bette Midler said the exact same things when she started working on it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If you cast a star, you want them to bring their own qualities to the part - she wasn't cast to do Bernadette Peters doing Bette Midler, anymore than Midler wanted to be doing Midler as Carol Channing.

[quote]Benny turned him down.

He felt that Dolly was too butch a part for him.

The bs that is ladled all over this thread like treacle beggars belief.

You'd certainly know from treacle, r495.

R458, I knew and worked with Julie Harris and hiring a claque is so antithetical to what the woman was about that I find it very difficult to believe she ever had anything to do with such a practice.

I have a feeling "I was hired to be Julie Harris' claque" goes right along with "There's a big NY Times expose coming!" and "Laura Linney is the next Rose in Gypsy!" SO much bs on this thread.

The Linney thing WAS A JOKE people!

What sort of individuality did Eve Arden, Yvonne de Carlo and Dorothy Lamour bring to their interpretation of Dolly, eldergays? Did Betty Grable stick out her gams? Did Phyllis Diller play her with a long cigarette holder and a fright wig? Did Ginger Rogers dance cheek to cheek with her Horace?

And Julie Harris' claque is a joke, too, as was the NY Times expose.

Dorothy Lamour came down the stairs of the Harmonia Gardens wearing a sarong.

True story: When Ginger Rogers was rehearsing to go in to Dolly, the "kids in the chorus" reported back to Channing that Rogers was terrible to them. After her last performance, Carol put wads of gum on the underside of the bannister railing so that Ginger got a sticky surprise when she walked down the stairs at her put-in.

Betty got to flash the gams later in London doing Belle Starr.

Belle Starr and Dolly Levi obviously shared clothes.

I saw a bus and truck with De Carlo.. She was wonderful and played the part with an Irish brogue.

A FOLLIESesque Dolly......

[quote]"I was hired to be Julie Harris' claque"

A long but oddly compelling drag name.

Your first look at Bernadette as Dolly.

gorgeous

Grable lifted her skirt and showed her legs when she played Dolly. Not sure when and who to whom but I heard that from a friend who saw her in the show. When Annie Miller did it in stock she, naturally, tapped.

No, it was-a me! I bring-a da clak! Not-a dat Julee Hareez!

So how does thing claque thing work? Do the same one or few people attend the show every night and leap to their feet screaming their heads off at the appointed moment? Because I'd eat my head from boredom if I had to watch the same show from the house every night if I wasn't actually involved in the show. It would be like being the (spoiler alert!) audience plant in One Man, Two Guvnors, who at least got a bow with the cast at the end. (Side note: One Man is still one of the funniest plays I've seen on stage. I wish NT Live would release it on DVD.)

Harris was so beloved that it's hard to believe she needed a claque. I saw her twice and there was no idiot screaming his head off either time.

Now maybe for a turkey like Skyscraper the producers might have hired a few people to get a bit of enthusiasm going.

An older friend who had seen Rogers in Dolly when I told him she was known as a selfish performer seemed surprised. He said that in the performance itself and at the curtain call she was a generous colleague.

Betty Grable who backs her up(she's really pretty) during Let Yourself Go in Follow the Fleet supposedly left a Dolly performance immediately because she knew Rogers was going to announce her presence in the audience from the stage. Grable was known as one of the kindest people in the business so she must have really hated Rogers.

I wish Grable had done Guys and Dolls. She would have been perfection. But she stood up Goldwyn for a meeting because her dog was sick and he wouldn't forgive her. Asshole.

r511: There was a moment in the “Hat Shop” scene when Dolly discovers that Cornelius and Barnaby are there. She hitched up her skirts to show her legs when she said, “Good Lord, the place is crawling with men.” The audience went wild when she flashed those famous legs.

Great website with anecdotes on all the Dollys:

Experienced claquers can make upwards of 100k a year, with benefits.

Streisand does the exact same thing in the movie, r516.

So that wasn't in the production when it first opened?

Yes, hiking up the skirt just a bit is in the original staging, but as if Dolly thought there were mice. Grable lifted her skirt well up beyond her knees to show those gams off. It always brought down the house,

I lifted my skirts even higher but to no avail.

Did even I lift my skirts?? I know I wouldn't wear that goddamned choker!

R511 In the number, over at the stage-right proscenium Dolly always sang "wow, wow wow, fellas, look at the old girl now, fellas" before going back on the walk-out. They all more-or-less did it, but when Betty Grable sorta arched her back and leaned on the proscenium and lifted her skirt to show a bit of leg the house went wild! Nightly. Like the 'crawling-with-mice" in the hat shop because of who she was the bits worked best for Grable.

r490 Wasn't it Rosie O's talkshow bandleader that did the Annie Get Your Gun re-orchestrations? John McSomething? He seemed to very quickly disappear after Rosie ended that show so I always assumed any other jobs he had were favors being called in or people hoping for the Rosie Broadway boost.

I know a few shows have been on Colbert, but does anybody actually boost Broadway sales anymore by giving coverage? I'm sure Tony awards and Macy's Thanksgiving Parade are important advertisements. Wasn't it Thoroughly Modern Millie that got a huuuuge bump in sales like 24 hours after Sutton was on Rosie's show?

John McDaniel was the Supervising Music Director and did the vocal arrangements for the 1999 AGYG, but it was Bruce Coughlin who did the wretched orchestrations. Apparently the Berlin daughters agreed, because they asked for the whole thing to be reorchestrated before it went into the rental catalogue.

R240

I never wrote a post about "The Post" or Hollywood. I've never seen the movie.

No. A list stars don't do tours. Please name some recent A list names who have.

Occasionally a major theater name will do a run in Los Angeles usually before or after the Broadway run. But, by the idiots on here's definition of A list (Bette Midler is A list but apparently Bernadette Peters is not...) that's who exactly?

And, only LA, SF and Chicago tend to get months long sit down stops for big shows. The rest of the country tends to get a week...sometimes a bit longer but a week is the norm, even in Seattle a major theater market. Though we are getting Hamilton for a month...w/o any A list names.

Are you going to see it?

Whoa what has BP done to her face??

Bernadette loves her long curly hair and knows her fans love it too. She wanted a number in Hello, Dolly! where she could wear it down and also a moment that Midler had not had to make her performance extra special. She asked Jerry Herman if they could include "Love Is Only Love" so that she could be seen brushing her long hair, as Barbra did in the film. We don't know yet if he said yes.

Apropos of nothing at all, watching Will & Grace I realized that Sean Hayes should star in a production of How To Succeed. Just don’t let Rob Ashford anywhere near it. In fact, keep Ashford far away from Broadway.

[quote]Sean Hayes should star in a production of How To Succeed.

As what? There are no roles he could play. He's too old for Finch, not butch enough for Biggley.

You don't know How to Succeed very well then do you?

Here's a dirty little secret about Carol Channing's productions of Hello Dolly. Her husband always hired non-equity chorus people because they wouldn't be running to Equity with complaints about the way they were treated. The last Broadway production was basically a tour production brought in. Look how many chorus members are making their Broadway debut. If you look at their resumes, none of them did any more Broadway shows. Carol and her husband hated working with Broadway gypsies.

When I went to that last revival, at the curtain call, Carol made this long-assed speech where she named every single place they were going once they left Broadway. It was funny because the tourist crowd wasn't expecting to have to stand there while she rambled on for 10 minutes.

[quote]You don't know How to Succeed very well then do you?

I know it well enough to know there are no roles for middle aged mincing queens. What role do you think he could play? Smitty?

R 497, I have worked with Julie Harris as well including her ill-fated TV show Thicker than Water. The problem with saying that something cannot be true based on your experience is that people change. The Julie Harris of 1960s was not the same as the one I worked with in 1973 or the one I worked with in the 1980s. Also, just a thought, but Hamlet and Skycraper were both during her marriage to Manning Gurian- right about the time it was falling apart. She may have been feeling particularly vulnerable.

Once Carol took possession of the Dolly Levi character, she basically made that her signature role and did ten billion performances of it. Did she see the writing on the wall and realize her options were limited or was she just lazy?

Also, back in the 1990s, I saw this hilarious video that a drag queen had made. He was dressed up in the Dolly regalia and the premise of the video was that Carol Channing would go to anyone's house and perform Dolly. There was one shot of the drag queen walking along a busy highway in the Dolly costume and then walking up to a house and wringing someone's doorbell. I wish I had a copy of that video it was so funny.

R529 is a liar. Bernie never requested another song, and in fact is happy just to be doing the same show Midler did. She doesn't care shit about having a scene with her hair long.

[quote]We don't know yet if he said yes.

He asked for another fruit cup but didn't weigh in on the hair issue.

A non equity tour can play on Broadway? How? Unless Equity can be bought like just about any union.

I saw that production and it truly was dire. When I left I saw Herman standing in the back of the orchestra as people were filing out.

Somebody I saw it with called it an opencasket funeral which it truly was.

Very surprisingly Herman said it was the first time he could enjoy the show as creating the show originally was so traumatic which I assume lasted with him for decades.

And once I heard Nelson Reilly interviewed and when he was asked how fabulous it was being in that original production his only response was 'We were all terrified of being fired.'

[quote]What role do you think he could play? Smitty?

I actually like that idea. Make Smitty Rosemary's smart gay best friend. Sean Hayes is perfect, and he'll really sock across "Cinderella Darling" (not to mention the fun twist it will add to "Paris Original" Goddamit voila, indeed!

[quote]A non equity tour can play on Broadway? How? Unless Equity can be bought like just about any union.

They chorus got their equity cards while on tour so that by the time they came into NY, they were Equity members. The point is that Carol's husband specifically chose not to hire equity dancers because they were cheaper and wouldn't complain if they had to work in conditions that were not Equity approved.

"You, chorus boy #3, that Equity cot is for Ms. Channing's personal use. If you faint, it's the cement floor for you."

"You, chorus girl #7. You're on your period? So what? 12 hours of dance rehearsal only means that you won't get the steps wrong in front of an audience."

[quote]I actually like that idea. Make Smitty Rosemary's smart gay best friend. Sean Hayes is perfect, and he'll really sock across "Cinderella Darling" (not to mention the fun twist it will add to "Paris Original" Goddamit voila, indeed!

It's a great idea. Except in today's climate, some offended minority actress will whine that Smitty is the only decent role a talented minority actress can play and then Cynthia Erivo will take up the cause on Twitter and it will become a huge public relations mess.

What do we want?

A revival of "Oh Dad, Poor Dad, Mama's Hung You In The Closet And I'm Feeling So Sad" starring Ben Platt and Patti LuPone.

When do we want it? NOW!!!!!!

Talk about someone not knowing how theater works - r541 is so full of shit I'm surprised he didn't choke on it.

[quote]The chorus got their equity cards while on tour so that by the time they came into NY, they were Equity members.

No, sorry, it doesn't work that way. The company was fully Equity from the get-go. There is no "partial AEA-partial non-AEA" company contract allowed on Production Contract, which is what they were on. That kind of set up only exists, to a degree, in some LORT contracts, or contracts like CAT, BAT, and HAT that are specific to particular cities (Chicago, San Francisco, and Los Angeles in those three cases). And it's a very strict quota of AEA to non-AEA. But that's not allowed at all on a big tour, which would be Production Contract - those companies are always fully AEA.

[quote]The point is that Carol's husband specifically chose not to hire equity dancers because they were cheaper and wouldn't complain if they had to work in conditions that were not Equity approved.

Do you enjoy making up bullshit like that? It's so far from the truth of how tours are put together it's ridiculous. And Carol's husband, Charles Lowe, was not even one of the producers nor was he in a hiring position. The producers of the last "Dolly" tour w Carol were Manny Kladitis, Magic Promotions & Theatricals, PACE Theatricals and Jon B. Platt.

Speaking of Oh Dad, Poor Dad, wasn't it announced a couple of seasons ago that Frank Langella would be starring in a revival? I know that sounds insane, but I'm sure it was announced....can't remember if it was for Roundabout or Broadway......

R544, if you think that Carol and her husband didn't have MAJOR input into that show, then you are delusional. Carol "owned" that show like Yul Brenner owned The King & I and for many years nobody on Broadway attempted a revival because of Carol. There are different types of investment in a show. Some people put in cash, some people put in star power.

And I'm speaking as someone who is friends with someone who was in the 78 revival. This person said that when Carol made her entrance in the "Hello Dolly" number, she would stop during rehearsals and give notes to the chorus. If someone wasn't looking at Carol as she moved downstage, she'd stop and ask them why they weren't looking at her and embarrass that person.

The mega-hit Broadway musicals of the past 15 or 20 years The Producers, Lion King, Wicked and Jersey Boys, all had month long sit-downs on their first go-rounds of cities like Washington, DC, San Diego, Seattle, Miami, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Boston, Dallas, Houston, Minneapolis, Cleveland, etc. as well as much longer runs in Chicago, LA and San Francisco. All without A-list stars, of course.

[quote]Speaking of Oh Dad, Poor Dad, wasn't it announced a couple of seasons ago that Frank Langella would be starring in a revival? I know that sounds insane, but I'm sure it was announced....can't remember if it was for Roundabout or Broadway......

It was probably for Roundabout. I can't see anyone trying to mount that on Broadway. It's such a creaky show, very much of its time period and wouldn't sell two tickets for today's audiences.

[quote]Speaking of Oh Dad, Poor Dad, wasn't it announced a couple of seasons ago that Frank Langella would be starring in a revival?

In drag?

Did anyone care about that show when it was new or was it the curiosity over the title that drew them in?

[quote]Did anyone care about that show when it was new or was it the curiosity over the title that drew them in?

It only played 47 performances, so it wasn't exactly a success, even though they made a movie out of it. But Broadway was different back then. It wasn't the machine it is today. Productions could be mounted, and some would fail, but you could get mediocre shows mounted. I think that particular show has more of an off-Broadway feel to it.

Fun fact: it was directed by Jerome Robbins.

Anyone at Bernadette rehearsals that can spill beans?

R546, nice way to avoid the fact that you lied completely about the contracts. I have a friend who was in 1978 too, in a leading role, and I've heard all the stories, many of which are hilarious and a couple of which are scary The fire alarm at the Watergate Hotel ("Charles, I'd rather die") is particularly entertaining. Carol couldn't give notes to the chorus. Against AEA rules. She could complain to the SM and ask him (or her) to give a note.

Carol and Charles did NOT hire the chorus. And if they HAD (which they didn't), it would have had to be on a full AEA contract, not the scenario you presented of people being non-AEA for the tour and only moving up to contract for the NY engagement.

[quote] I know it well enough to know there are no roles for middle aged mincing queens.

Is THAT so?

Any first-night Fannies going to Bernadette's first performance tonight?? Looking forward to hearing the early reviews.

Also, elder NY gays -- Victor Garber (still a handsome, distinguished Daddy) was really hot in his slightly younger days. Who's had him??

Who DIDN'T have him??

Baz Bamigboye tweeted that Ruthie Ann Miles is repeating her Tony winning role in The King & I in London in June. Happy for my UK friends who will get to see her.

Love Is Only Love was originally written for Angela to sing in Mame but cut very early on during rehearsals.

Channing was blind as a bat, from all reports. I doubt very much that she could have noticed a chorus boy's eyes and where they were pointed.

Also, she tried to get off the Dolly treadmill with LORELEI, but it was a big bust.

But it was a very fun show and had some Mackie doozies r559.

I don't know whether it's true, but one the rumors that was rampant in theatrical world in New York during her last tour of Dolly was that Carol had become incontinent and finally had to be ordered to wear a diaper during performances because so many dancers were slipping and falling in the puddles she left.

Also, and this I know is true because I saw it, was that over the stage door there was a sign posted reading (and I'm paraphrasing from memory) 'Through this door every night passes a Broadway LEGEND."

Love Is Only Love was still in the show during the tryouts. It's listed in programs from both the Forrest and Shubert Theatres.

Bernadette will have a new number in ACT 2.

So that queens will know what her Mame would be, she’s going to sing “If He Walker Into My Life”

Seriously.

R552, Oh Dad, Poor Dad, Mamma's Hung You in the Closet and I'm Feelin' So Sad -- Kopit’s work won both the contest and an undergraduate production at Harvard. The play created such a stir that it was moved into a Cambridge, Massachusetts, commercial house, the Agassiz Theater, where it garnered very positive reviews. The favorable notices attracted the attention of the Phoenix Theatre in New York, a major Off-Broadway house that staged alternative theater works. The play opened there on February 26, 1962, running for 454 performances, an extraordinary achievement for an unknown playwright with no previous New York production credits. The work also won both the Vernon Rice and the Outer Circle Awards.

^^^ meant for R551

[quote] Also, she tried to get off the Dolly treadmill with LORELEI, but it was a big bust.

Well it presumably made money on the long pre-Broadway tour and did last 9 1/2 months at the Palace (incidentally, her co-star in LORELEI, the handsome Peter Palmer is still around at 86)

Channing also appeared in the non-musical LEGENDS, which never came to New York, but still made a profit on its year-long tour around the country.

Oh Dad.......and NO mention of ME?

Legends was commercially successful even without making it to Broadway twice. I saw it the second time through and it was dire. There's no play there, and without a cast hook (like having two people who hate each other in real life as the stars) there's no point to it.

It's a shame because its a rather clever idea. Mary Martin was apparently very unhappy with the production of the show and left in a huff before the show made it to Broadway. It was smart of them to realize they'd never do better than the meagre profit they had and cut and run.

I suppose most of you have heard this since it's a well known story told by Kirkland in his book but during Legends Mary Martin was having bad trouble remembering her lines. They gave her an earpiece to feed her her dialog and it worked well enough at first. Then they pulled into one city and Mary started randomly blurting out street addresses during the performance.

Yes, the earpiece was working on the same frequency as a local cab company and Mary was repeating the dispatcher's instructions.

Count me as someone else who thinks Victor Garber looks really great for his age. R454, how do you know what his mustache in DOLLY! looks like? Have you been at rehearsals?

I agree there's nothing wrong with Peters' quotes in that Playbill piece, though maybe some of the interviewer's comments are a bit much.

LEGENDS was a GREAT idea ruined by terrible writing. Can you imagine what a talented comedic playwright might have done with that idea and two big stars?

r570 When Charles Busch did the show (I did not see it) do you know if he was given permission to do re-writes? He seems like he'd have the sensibility to move that show in the right direction, but I can't believe it wouldn't be better just to take the concept and start from scratch.

R571, I don't think there were any rewrites for that LEGENDS with Charles Busch and Lypsinka. Whoopi Goldberg was supposed to play the maid in that benefit show, but she canceled, and they said it was due to illness. I agree that Busch would probably be able to take the concept and come up with a far better play from scratch.

Do yourselves a favor and read Diary of a Mad Playwright by James Kirkwood, all about the making of Legends. It's hilarious but also pathetic in his belief that he was not to blame.....for anything. If anything, Mary Martin comes off as the most sane person involved. And that's saying something.

The best book about the making of a Broadway show since The Making of No, No Nanette.

[quote]Peter Palmer is still around at 86

His name makes him sound like he's a habitual masturbator.

It's been a while, but I actually thought when I read "Diary of a Mad Playwright," that Carol Channing came off the most sensible. Certainly it had to be scary for her, to be up there on stage and not knowing what was going to be coming out of Mary's mouth half the time.

er, Kirkwood, not Kirkland. Don't know how I did that. I saw the original Broadway production of P.S. You're Cat Is Dead with luscious ass of Tony Musante.

Does anyone here know or has worked with Victor Garber? What's his personality like? Is he a nice guy, a jerk, or what?

[quote]Do yourselves a favor and read Diary of a Mad Playwright by James Kirkwood, all about the making of Legends. It's hilarious but also pathetic in his belief that he was not to blame.....for anything. If anything, Mary Martin comes off as the most sane person involved. And that's saying something. The best book about the making of a Broadway show since The Making of No, No Nanette.

Not this shit again. Obviously someone who gets paid anytime some chump buys this boring-ass book. Hilarious, it's not.

I worked with him on Assassins. He could not have been nicer. I remembered him talking to a young actor (not in the show) who was concerned about being a diabetic actor (Victor Garber is diabetic.) It was kind of out of the blue, but Garber was very nice to him.

"but you could get mediocre shows mounted."

And that is different from today how?

[quote]It only played 47 performances, so it wasn't exactly a success, even though they made a movie out of it.

Even [italic]The Happiest Millionaire[/italic] made it over the 200 performance mark in its non-Disney pre-musical incarnation as a stage play.

ODPDMHYITCAIFSS ran more than twice as long as that.

Did anything get a movie out of an even shorter run than that?

[quote]Do yourselves a favor and read Diary of a Mad Playwright by James Kirkwood, all about the making of Legends. It's hilarious but also pathetic in his belief that he was not to blame.....for anything

Right on both counts.

[quote]...but you could get mediocre shows mounted.

Of course you can still get mediocre shows (or worse) mounted, only it costs about 1,000 times as much to do so now than it did back in the day.

Looking forward to seeing Glenda Jackson in Three Tall Women. I read an interview with her in the London Evening Standard and she said she loves watching The Goldbergs (her former leading man George Segal is in it), The Big Bang Theory and Blackish. What I wouldn’t give to be a fly on the wall when Glenda sits down to enjoy an episode of Blackish.

[quote]Of course you can still get mediocre shows (or worse) mounted, only it costs about 1,000 times as much to do so now than it did back in the day.

And it's Republicans' fault because…?

Thank you R554 for getting it right.

As I said to that other poster he does not know the show very well.

Here you go, r570.

Charles Nelson Reilly was thirty-two when he started HELLO, DOLLY!

Wow, he looks like a gay Grandpa Joe.

Sorry but I don't see a sexy daddy or even a sexy grand daddy.

Yes, daddy.

Victor's eyes seem bloodshot. Is he a stoner?

Ok yes in R592 I can see a guy who was hot back in the day. With Garber no. And Victor was very much so.

Mr. Peter Palmer.....

r511 Maybe if Sutton or I takeover for Dolly they can bring back the tapping! If we're busy, get Karen Z. She could do double duty and takeover all the banjo parts!

Dossett was beautiful when younger, but I think he's even hotter as a mature silverdaddy.

I have the distinction of having seen "Legends" in three different productions. I reviewed the original production with Mary Martin and Carol Channing when it played in Boston in 1986. I was kind to the two stars, but didn't have much good to say about the play. Twenty years later, in 2006, I saw "Legends" in D.C. at the National Theatre starring Joan Collins and Linda Evans, in a production that also hoped to go to Broadway. It stank. (Linda had never appeared in a play before.) A few years later, also in D.C., I saw a production starring Lypskina in the Mary Martin role and James Lecesne in the Carol Channing role. It was the least dire of the three, mainly because Lypsinka is incapable of not being funny. And for that version, John Epperson was allowed to do some rewrites. But the play remained hopeless.

Bill's thirty-two. He looks thirty-two. He looked it five years ago, he'll look it twenty years from now.....

What do all Broadway stars past and present have in common? They hate Matt the Loon, too!