Catherine Deneuve denounces the #MeToo campaign

Sorry, she's a bitch.

Let's the shitstorm begins.

Let's face it. She was known for her tits, not her brains.

She's right.

Makes sense, no? What's left of French culture without the courtship rituals?

The allegations are more then touching someone's knees and they occurred in connection with someone's work. Someone trying to steal a kiss is different when you or on a date then if it is your boss and it is work related. And rape is rape, in either environment.

R3 Who the fuck are you to say that?

She's one of the rare clever actress.

Finally some sanity.

R6 Duh, they don't say anything else.

Flirting during dating or courtship is quite different from sexual harassment in a workplace setting. Anyone who can't understand that is an imbecile.

Always sublime and stunning

Asia Argento @AsiaArgento

Catherine Deneuve and other French women tell the world how their interiorized misogyny has lobotomized them to the point of no return

Mon dieu, please take this cunt and give us back the lovely Francoise Dorleac! Thanks!

David Bowie and Catherine Deneuve playing chess on the set of The Hunger.

Piers Cunt Morgan ‏ Amazing.. 100 leading French women, led by Catherine Deneuve, launch resistance to 'man-hating feminism'.

I love how people who didn't read the tribune comment about it...

"Rape is a crime, but trying to seduce someone, even persistently or cack-handedly, is not" - Catherine Deneuve

It’s okay to be White. It’s okay to be MALE.

This is so French, non? The French woman is not as liberated as Americans think she is. It's still a very patriarchal society.

Marion Cotillard says feminism has no place in the film industry

French people are animals. Men rape women, the women go home and take a shower and forget about it.

Both women and men know the difference between seducing and flirting and abuse.

What a bunch of stupid cunts.

Can we have a Parisian genocide?

It's interesting how they seemingly have no awareness that social norms are different in America compared to France. It may be completely fine for your co-worker to "steal a kiss" or send sexual text messages there, but it's not here.

R23 have you seen Elle? She literally seduces her rapist into raping her some more. Directed by a pig German with a French actresses consent.

Deneuve is actually saying something legit and sane. Some of the reactions on here are ridiculous.

R26 You and others in these threads are trying to go back to workplace sexual harassment, when the issue is getting much more broad and blurry. These 100 French women did not say, as far as I can, that your boss can get whatever he wants. It's now about James Franco sexting 17-year old girls and Al Franken taking goofy joke pics of a woman while she's asleep, or 101-year old actor who's rumored to have raped a woman 70 years ago, even though she's been died for 30. It's anything any man or woman wants to make it. It's completely subjective and rnadom at this point, and that's a big problem.

Being flirted with in a friendly, non-threating way is completely different that sexual assault or harassment.

Who gives a shit what these old and clueless French surrender monkeys think?

Give an example where you define the difference. R30. For instance, how would you classify Franco's text to the 17 yr old in R29's example?.

[quote]Let's face it. She was known for her tits, not her brains.

Certainly not the case. Her list of great films and performances measures up to anyone's. Some of the reactions on this thread just demonstrate how hysterical we've all become about this issue.

R26 You don't have a clue what "it's about". You only think "it's about" about what you see on DL. News flash, DL is not reality

My two examples were about workplace harassment, R29. She explicitly says so. Beyond that, kissing a stranger on the street, for example, isn't courtship, it's merely being a creep.

R5, when that French politician was accused of raping that NYC maid wasn't there talk then of how we Americans didn't understand French courting culture?

R29, I guess the problem is that it is hard to take the French seriously on this subject. Didn't they just set the minimum age of consent at 13? Don't they harbor Polanski?

I agree. At what point does all of this hysteria derail basic human interaction.

The truth lies somewhere between French gender-role-play chic and lâcher prise, and American SJW screeching witch hunts.

For me, R32, friendly flirty is just that. Complimenting someone (not persistently), laughing at their unfunny jokes, smiling, a light touch on the shoulder (not repeatedly), well received or reciprocating "gentle" teasing, those sorts of things are what I would classify as friendly, harmless flirting. I think most sane human beings know the difference and can read social cues. For example, someone touching another's shoulder once, and the other person smiles is one thing. A person doing it over and over or if the other person pulls away and they still do it, that's a different story. Complimenting works the same way, I think. Telling a woman that her hair cut looks great or suits her, once, is one thing, going on and on about her appearance is something else.

I don't know much about the Franco situation with the 17 year old. I'm in my 30s, so I'd never dream of texting someone that much younger than myself about anything.

I'm glad the French said something a bit caustic. The poor Germans don't dare say anything reasonable or provocative. The Italians won't even bother with the debate.

Well she is an actress, hardly "the French".

What do you expect from a *cough cough* “belle du jour.”

I love how the superhero film nerds are dismissing her. The Umbrellas of Cherbourg, Belle de Jour, etc, are masterpieces.

Some women need their ego stroked by insistent flirting from men all the time even if they aren't interested in those men sexually. They take harassment as a compliment.

Women like this need to die off and fast.

This should be no surprise coming from one of the most beautiful women in the world at one time (who is still quite stunning even today). If anyone understood the true meaning of seduction it's Catherine Deneuve.

I agree with her message for the most part but it should be pointed out that the problem lies not with going after people like Harvey Weinstein who used his position of power for nefarious means, but the ensuing witch hunt that has ensnared every one who dares say that we should not believe all women without proof or for those arguing that there should be a distinction between unwanted physical contact and rape (like Matt Damon). This is a point of time where we should educate, not excoriate. Men are not allowed to participate in the national dialogue because even the slightest admission could amount to career suicide.

R46 Would you say the same thing if it was a parent or relative who shared the same views? I guarantee that those who grew up in Deneuve's time have a much different perspective than you.

Isn’t she really far right? Basically a fascist?

No, you're probably thinking of Bardot R48

Where men can't participate in a national dialogue, it's important that we have people like Deneuve who will speak on mens' behalf.

Well, Mattress Girl is APPALLED that that the French do not believe that a woman can regret consensual sex a day or a week later and decide it was rape.

Fortunately, Senator Gillibrand fully supports the supposition that anything a woman says is true and men are pigs. And ran Senator Franken out of Congress on trumped up charges FED TO HER by the right. Because hugging a person in a photo op is RAPE. Because posing for a tasteless fake grope phone in front of a comedy colleague who is fake sleeping, that's RAPE, ASSAULT.

R47, plenty of women Deneuve's age have spoken out. The women who are accusing Weinstein aren't tweens, most are middle-aged

French culture is somewhat backwards on this topic. If we are going to listen to the French then why not Pakistanis or Saudis?

Except the French position (as articulated in the quoted letter) doesn't really have anything in common with fundamentalist religion. It's really the Americans who have abandoned all nuance and are acting like sexual kommissars.

The #MeToo accusers of Jann Wenner and George Takei come to mind.

Both tried to feign innocence at the apartments of their "assailants" after dark after they willfully and flirtatiously schemed to get close to both men.

There is an issue that #MeToo has strayed away from sexual assault, with other things being lumped in the same category: 1) Being asked on a date 2) Men looking at women etc

A part of this is where women who have not been sexually assaulted decide to buy into some of the victimhood. Suddenly their turning down a sex request becomes "the same thing" as what female rape victims suffer.

Basically any guy who has had their ass or crotch fondled in a gay bar might as well be bursting out crying for some of the frau sympathy circle jerk

R54, yeah they got rid of the religion but kept all the backward social rules.

I just remember when it was revealed the French politician tried to sexually assault his wife's young goddaughter. Wife totally threw the goddaughter under the bus. I imagine she's a woman after Catherine's own heart.

R57 It's in the American DNA.

She is right. Trial by twitter, accusations with unsupported evidence and the assurance of the rights of the accused is a witchhunt. Weinstein is a different story, but it should make you wonder why all these women who benefitted from him all these years are now among the more hysterical of the accusers...

I was talking about the French, R59.

I'm no apologist for the French, but when American men stop gang-raping women in broad daylight, murdering them in front of their children, and producing porn that involves rape and rough sex as a giuen, then we can talk about sex norms in France.

[QUOTE] but it should make you wonder why all these women who benefitted from him all these years are now among the more hysterical of the accusers...

Exactamundo!

What is the French view on surprise anal?

[62] Spoken like a closed minded, tumblr loving, buzzfeed reading idiotic fantasist; pulling out make-believe shit from your arse. smh.

It's like those French have a different word for EVERYTHING!!!

France is no better than Italy. Sexist, racist, homophobic... You name it.

Forgot conservative.

R65 god forbid she ever steps foot outside of American and sees what it's really like elsewhere in the world.

Most French women from the bourgeoisie still act like they are expected to be sophisticated whores. It's ingrained in them since borth, almost. Very sad. They can be excellent company - in a world where women are always, on some level, whores.

R21 Well, the film industry being abusive, violent, misogynistic and even dangerous, she [Marion Cotillard] may be right. Which is why I stopped watching movies when I got back to my senses.

A pig Dutch, R27.

Fraaanch Fries

Just took a look at those "100" women. Brigitte Lahaie... Catherine Millet... Got it. So a porn star turned radio host, I mean I love Brigitte Lahaie, her sex column on the radio is (was? haven't listened to it in ages) so relaxing to listen to, but seriously?? A former porn star?? As for Catherine Millet, well she's mostly known in France for the book she wrote some ten or fifteen years ago about the life of BDSM and multiple partners she had with her husband while they were both part of the intellectual artistic, tastemaking elite in France.

Basically, Les Liaisons dangereuses forever?

So because of their sexual past they cannot make a valid point, R74? You are quite a feminist...

I love to hear Brigitte Lahaie's advice on love relationships, because it is excellent. But I'm not sure I'd listen to her opinion on courtship etc. Excellent advice on how to keep a relationship going in bed, that's for sure. But that's not what this is about.

[quote] Where men can't participate in a national dialogue, it's important that we have people like Deneuve who will speak on mens' behalf.

As if anyone would listen to her. That's the culture men created, one where ALL women's opinions are dismissed including ones that support the patriarchy. You men have really outdone yourselves.

the pendulum always swings to the extreme opposite before it comes to settle in the center.

The French must find all of this shit so fucking silly.

Western culture has been reduced to sound bytes of 30 characters or less, now lead by angry, bratty, often uneducated people on Twitter, and strangely many journalists are following THEIR lead. Maturity and intellect are no longer commodities.

People underline the cultural divide between USA and France on the topic of flirtation and sexual assault (not the same thing). Fair enough. But I think the cultural divide might be more on the topic of "denounciation". While in the U.S. it has been accepted, validated and encouraged since the beginning of the colony (I accuse bonny Flanders of sleeping with the Devil ! ), in France it is linked to painful, shameful and not so distant memories . A snitch is truly reviled. Ganging on someone is badly seen too. Not Weinstein, no. But a petition against Matt Damon is percieved as mob mentality.

There is a cultural difference just there.

Persistently trying to seduce someone who has let it be known they are not interested, is sexual harassment, period.

I had a co worker try to grope and kiss me and it was fucking gross. That 55 year old queen was 28 years older than me... no way... He was begging for me to bottom for him...no no no

He would go on and on and on. He literally would not stop pestering me. One of my co workers saw him try to grope and kiss me and was I like no no no and she reported him to HR.

The guy ended up getting fired over it. I hate dealing with sex pests at work. I'm a very cute flaming twink and I work with a lot of older gay men and I have to deal with this all the time.

The French, like the Italians, don’t get the big deal when it comes to sexual harrassment. Women are whores. France granted Polanski asylum.

"Oh you poor dear, what you've been through..."

One shouldn't judge the French by this letter. French women have been out marching in the streets in typical French style for the #Metoo movement for months now crying out "send the pigs to the slaughterhouse" which is far more impressive than what USA women have been doing. .

Ok, so I've went and read it. Some parts are retrograde and undefendable. For instance, the say:"Women have the right to ask for equal pays, but not the right to be permanently traumatized by some frottage in the subway".

French people are reacting on twitter, claiming that a rich person who has bodygards and a chauffeur should not lecture women who get to be on a subway by themselves at midnight.

There are many different social groups in France. The one Deneuve belongs to is not the most representative of the country in general.

r88 you don't know shite about France, obviously, that's why you've been spouting crap throughout this thread.

No surprise here. French people are mysoginistic as hell. No wonder they worship Roman Polanski. Deneuve worked with Polanski as well.

There are some women in the world who measure their self-esteem according to how much sexual attention they receive, it’s all good to them, even the harassment and stalking. This has been taught to females by society for eons. It will take time and younger generations of self-aware, confident women to change this.

I thank god every day that i'm not an american. You really are a bunch of retarded. No wonder your country is gone to shit. The whole world is laughing at you.

She is correct.

I agree with R29.

Touching someone's knee without consent is still intrusive and an invasion, not to mention that in 95% of the cases it's men who are doing the touching without asking.

I don't doubt some #metoo allegations are hyperbole, but demanding sexual favors for roles or jobs is a real problem in any industry where men have power over women or other men for that matter. Denying this is would be preposterous.

She is correct.

There is a fundamental problem. Take the Garrison Keillor case. Anonymous accuser. No details. Unlike HW no one has come forward publicly. Is it an over reaction from MPR or did something happen. The public doesn't know.

Or take the Al Franken case. Forced out of office without an investigation? I think that's a nightmare many men have had. More disgusting I think it was all politics. Democrats have more to gain by appeasing women than men. So throw Franken under the bus.

I think they made a mistake. I'm going to guess women fear their husbands losing their jobs as much as they fear sexual harassment in the workplace.

[quote]'I don't think it is the right method to change things, it is excessive,' she said last year, referring to the #MeToo hashtag. 'After 'Calling our your pig' what are we going to have, 'Call our your whore?' she said. 'Instead of helping women, this frenzy to send these (male chauvinist) "pigs" to the abattoir actually helps the enemies of sexual liberty - religious extremists and the worst sort of reactionaries,' the collective of women who signed the letter said. 'As women we do not recognise ourselves in this feminism, which beyond denouncing the abuse of power, takes on a hatred of men and of sexuality.' They insisted that women were 'sufficiently aware that the sexual urge is by its nature wild and aggressive. But we are also clear-eyed enough not to confuse an awkward attempt to pick someone up with a sexual attack.'

I'm not going to agree or disagree. I need some time to take this in. I would suggest that some of you might do the same. Regardless, Catherine Deneuve is not the enemy. I suggest you Google the 'Manifesto of the 343..' And for something sex-positive, I'll add a clip.

I love how some ignorant people here are dissing the French as backwards.

They might be whores, darling - but they're whores with FREE UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE, very affordable higher education, and more work holidays than any of us can even dream of.

They win, hands down.

Both Whitney Houston and Deneuve handled that genius/pig Gainsbourg with aplomb.

J'aimerai bien aussi le remaillage aux fils d’or. Parce que je le vaux bien.

Why, it's almost like some parts of a society are appreciably better than others! Crazy or what?!?

One person's opinion: There are a precious few rabid people taking things too far after awkward, unwanted passes or similar that go no further. And the likes of CD, some people here (trolling or otherwise) act like the rabid people are the norm, an excuse to trash all and sundry who are speaking out after having to deal with anything from sexual harassment to rape.

R99 Serge Gainsbourg is a pig. how can that nasty man be a father of an angel like Charlotte!?

Eager women running to the aid of poor, misunderstood men. Don’t they ever notice that men never run to the aid of maligned women?

She's got a point. There is a puritanical edge to this #Metoo thing. It's also a handy way for has-been actresses to get some notice.

Europeans (even latin americans) look at these things differently than americans. Anything othr than forcible penetration is not rape for them. Saying "You have nice tits" isn't a mortal offense for them. There is a bit of hysteria going on. And some women definitlya re approaching these things as big-buck-making opportunities.

Right now things are just really hot which is why every single accusation, even the bullshit ones, are being taken so seriously. Things are starting to settle down and it will reach a good equilibrium where men don't have to live in fear of false accusations going nuclear so quickly but they also have to stop acting like fucking pigs.

Deneuve and this group seem out of touch with reality. They're living in 'movieland' with some fantasy idea that all the gorgeous men want them and show them by rubbing their dicks on them and it's all good. I'd love to see their reaction to some hideously fat, monstrously ugly man doing some of the things they find "courtly".

What's her damage? First she defends rapist Polanski, now she co-signs a letter to tell victimized women to, essentially, STFU? For the love of all that is decent, woman.

Disappointed in her. Still think she's beautiful, makes decent-to-good films, but she is no friend to womankind.

Amen, r45 & r46.

And why. WHY are these old bags so disappointing? Everyone who commented about some women deriving their self worth by how much men are drooling over them (or jizzing on them) are absolutely correct.

Catherine Deneuve can fuck herself. Fucking dinosaur.

Deneuve owes her career to this sort of behaviour from men towards her. Of course she's going to defend them.

Are you seriously nuts? Deneuve is one of the greatest actresses on the planet and not just because of her beauty. Some of you folks are out of your fucking minds.

If one were to dig deep enough around the net, stories of her own past may speak to her current position. But when a person doesn't develop empathy towards others after their own sh*te experiences, iy blows my mind (every time).

Does she get rewarded for sticking up for the privileged male-in-charge of the industry now?

Men should learn not to invade women's space.

I fucking hate when women defend men. They don't need that. They rule the world so, fuck them.

I think one of the big reasons for a pushback against me too is because momentum and outrage is moving us towards a situation were we are lowering the standard of proof for guilt and I don't just mean legal guilt but moral guilt were we decide an allegation is true and ostracise them .In some senses we are coming dangerously close to doing away with the notion or any notion of innocent until proven guilty .

Wiser souls can see in the long term that will be very dangerous .

Don’t recall hundreds of men signing a letter to denounce the deplorable behavior of thei male colleagues in the film industry.

She's right.

'meriKKKah is so SJW, it's beyond ridiculous now.

Catherine is right. Al Franken resigned, and he shouldn't have.

She's not" right" you fucling idiots.

R65 Such a cogent articulation of your point of view......Which is what ? That American treatment of women is more civilized than in France? Or just that you like using the British form of "ass" when describing other people's arguments?

Americans love finger-pointing and self-righteous indignation, squealing louder than the victim in their never-ending quest for some nebulous moral high-ground, especially when the height can be scaled on the backs of scapegoated minorities. The French have a far more mature, refined understanding of hypocrisy.

I assume these people are the French version of the deplorables. Againt women, against feminism, and pro men. Even if these men are mediocre piece of shit. They deserve a second, third of four chance...

R121 You know what happens when you assume.....Especially when you're not bright.....

".The French have a far more mature, refined understanding of hypocrisy."

Oh,Mary!

R122 a troll from Russia

And of course, Datalounge agrees with Deneuve. Quelle surprise..

R123 = Hypocritical American

R126 The D day.

R122 a troll from Russia

Too bad we can’t give her a minimum wage job where she has to take the metro at midnight.

Even Marion Cotillard supports the #MeToo movement.

[quote] There is a bit of hysteria going on.

No, hysteria is when you declare a boycott after someone laughs about penis mutilation. Women have a right to be free from harassment. Men do not have a right to stop people from making jokes.

[quote]we intimidate people into speaking "correctly", shout down those who don't fall into line, and those women who refused to bend' to the new realities 'are regarded as complicit and traitors.'

Spot on! Look no further than this thread for details.

god i love her

Wow... Look at the way the article at R21 shamelessly twists Marion Cotillard's words in the article title.

If anyone bothered to read Marion's statements, they were actually very reasonable. She might be a nutty 9/11 truther who most likely fucked Harvey W., but she made a lot of sense there.

I agree with part of it. It's getting to be too much with the accusations. A man who works with you asks you out, so what. He touched your arm and whey you said you had a boyfriend, and he said he doesn't need to know about it. This is not a big fucking deal. Just say I don't date people at the workplace. If he fires you so you can date then you can make a stink.

R135: being willfully obtuse

R3, At least be accurate. Deneuve was, and is, known for her face.

[quote]Europeans (even latin americans) look at these things differently than americans. Anything othr than forcible penetration is not rape for them.

Even then they ask what the woman was doing or wearing that led the man to believe she wanted it.

[quote]They might be whores, darling - but they're whores with FREE UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE, very affordable higher education, and more work holidays than any of us can even dream of.

Healthcare is never free, you moron, and France is overrun with Muslims and and the Right-wing is running the show. France is a shithole that can't pay its bills.

France will gladly house Harvey Weinstein. Their own President was a victim of molestation by his 10000 year old wife.

[quote] Men have been punished summarily, forced out of their jobs when all they did was touch someone's knee or try to steal a kiss,

Name one

France also named a street after American cop killer Mumia and let Ira Einhorn hid out there for years after murdering his girlfriend.

I stand with Ms. Deneuve.

A lots of these problems would be solved if we required men to wear burkas.

[quote] Men have been punished summarily, forced out of their jobs when all they did was touch someone's knee or try to steal a kiss,

Sorry Catherine, but trying to kiss someone who doesn't want to be kissed is wrong. It is forcing yourself on someone. People have the right not to be touched by other people. It's a shame that Catherine thinks this is appropriate behavior. That's fine if she doesn't mind men trying to kiss her. But the rest of decent society has a problem with it

Now, shoo. Go away you filthy pig and go sit by your friend Roman Polanski.

Rape isn't that big of a deal to French people. Gerard Depardieu is an admitted rapist. He said his first rape he committed was when he was 9 yrs old and that it was a normal French thing to do. I haven't ever watched a single on of his shitty movies

R106 Ugly people have sex too you know

Most of these no-talent Hollywood #METOO bitches would be unemployed if they relied on their artistic skills to prosper. Why else would they go into a notorious pervert's hotel room to discuss 'business' and then claim to be shocked and traumatized when he tries to grab their tits. Hotels do have meeting rooms, don't they?

R146, seriously?! I love the French, but good Christ, they do confuse me sometimes.

Good for her !!

R147, not with Catherine Deneuve, they don't! If a fat gross pig of a man came up to Deneuve and repeatedly tried to kiss her and grab her, she'd certainly have a reaction and it wouldn't be polite disinterest.

All of you spewing crap about the over-reaction to every single accusation at this point need to realize this is a reflexive reaction to the decades of pent up non-reaction. It's already settling down. I think a few men getting a bloody nose over an over-reaction (although Franken was too far and for obvious political reasons) is a small price to pay in the short term for the huge long term changes hopefully taking place.

R151 So you don't mind that innocent men will lose jobs due to the overreaction - They should just 'take one for the team'. Would you be willing to to that?

She's just mad there wasn't social media and #MeToo around when she was told to not be too unwelcoming about directors getting too handsy on set with her.

R152, like I said, it's already settling down. It's a shame that there were a few non-egregious offenders caught up in the initial fallout but there was such a huge correction needed to make things right, that was bound to happen. Women have been losing their jobs and their livelihoods for decades because they fought off the attacks. Shit happens and for the last few months a little bit of that shit has had to be shouldered by men. They'll survive just like the thousands upon thousands of female victims have.

Also, who are all these purely innocent men who have lost their jobs? Franken is the only one that I think was a pure hit job with nothing to back it up except Roger Stone-style political assassination. George Takei's accusations were probably bullshit too but he didn't lose any jobs or anything else as far as I know. Who are all the others so many of you keep saying have lost so much?

Patsy Stone thinks we are getting too sensitive as well..

DENEUVE OF HER!!!!!!

R154 The problem is we can't know for certain which claims are bullshit or not due to lack of evidence and reliable eyewitness testimony. Jeremy Piven passed a lie detector test and was adamant about his innocence, yet his show was still cancelled and his career irreparably damaged. Some men who stand accused could have had their actions misinterpreted or misrepresented. In that case, the accuser could have approached that person privately or even start a conversation.

I think this affects much more than peoples' careers but could impact their personal lives and the lives of their families, as Michael Douglas states. Those who commit these crimes should punished to the full extent, but we should seek justice without putting even more innocent lives in jeopardy.

I dunno about the whole lie detector thing for Piven, R157. They're notoriously unreliable and it's been proven that you can fool them, especially if the subject is a total sociopath.

Plus, rumors about Piven being a sketchy douche have floated around since 'Entourage' was a thing.

To everyone though, I do find it interesting that the high-profile women who seem to be speaking out against #MeToo all seem to fall under a certain demographic. For the most part, they're older, financially secure and...well, white. They are the very picture of not understanding intersectional feminism. They don't have to worry about the issues that drive the #MeToo movement as they have no real stakes in it impacting them.

[quote]They don't have to worry about the issues that drive the #MeToo movement

And neither do the men who continue to sexually harrass and abuse in entertainment, government, academia and the Church, who are well aware that they are largely immune from public scrutiny and exposure due to media selective focus and public selective memory.

I agree with her. I believe that as soon as ten years from now this period will come to be thought of as the era of female hysteria.

Good.At last some fucking sense might prevail and silence these ugly man-hating lesbian (not all gay women are these monsters) ideologues and their sheep-like heterosexual handmaidens

R160, nope, I believe that period has passed. I think it was the 1600s in Salem, Ma. Anyway, like someone said before, there has been so many years (centuries even) of this crap, that something like this has to happen to reframe social norms. Context plays a large role in this, but CD's and others comments were a bit shortsighted and undermine the true meaning of the #MeToo movement.

I love Deneuve, but I think she's a bit out of touch. She spent her youth with men like Polanski and Roger Vadim, who exploited her but also gave her her career. Acknowledging that what those men did was wrong would shatter her whole world view. She's in her 70s now, isn't she? I don't think she'll change. Sure, there are some Franco-American differences too. Compare her to a woman she has some things in common with, Jane Fonda.

There is a witch-huny-t strain in there. It's a reason to call out THAT specifically, not to denounce the whole movement. Unless you're a misogynist of course and want an excuse to do so.

[quote]So you don't mind that innocent men will lose jobs due to the overreaction

As long as these men leave their God damned hands to themselves there won't be a problem. What the fuck is so hard about that? No one who keeps their damned hands to themselves is getting fired. If you think it's no big deal for men to touch women and try to kiss them (without permission) would you like your Mom's boss or your sister or niece's bosses to do this to them? No, you wouldn't.

And for Fuck's sake, we're talking about things that go on in a place of employment. There's no room for this type of behavior in a work place environment

I'm sure Ms Deneuve isn't going to offer up her daughter for men to try and kiss her and touch her legs

When she does that and says it's no big deal, I'll support her

Not to sound bitchy, but I sometimes get the sense that the women screaming the loudest are not the women who are constantly harassed.

[quote]I think one of the big reasons for a pushback against me too is because momentum and outrage is moving us towards a situation were we are lowering the standard of proof for guilt

This!!!

I asked my Swiss French university students if they wanted to discuss the French and Deneuve's riposte to the American harassment controversies. They stared at me blankly. Catherine Deneuve? Never heard of her. Sexual harassment in the workplace? Dead stare. Campus rape scandals? Rien.

“I believe that as soon as ten years from now this period will come to be thought of as the era of female hysteria.”

You mean hysterical men.

France doesn't harbour Polanski, he was born in Paris.

We're in a socially regressive period already. I don't think that, in a decade, we'll have gone back even further to the era of Freud and denoted our current decade as being awash in female hysteria.

Speak your truth, Cathy!

Tbh some people are going to suffer no matter what. Either the women who have been harassed won't get justice, or the men who are falsely accused won't. But there are clearly more of the former, and this movement addresses a serious deeply ingrained cultural issue that deserves to finally come to a head, something arguably bigger than a few careers.

[quote]But there are clearly more of the former, and this movement addresses a serious deeply ingrained cultural issue that deserves to finally come to a head, something arguably bigger than a few careers.

As long as the collective is being seen to be doing something, can salve their consciences in the moment on the media-provided targets, feel self-righteous and holier than, the reality that sexual harassment and abuse continues and will continue unabated is irrelevant to the false public mega-rush of WE.DID.SOMETHING.AREN'T.WE.FABULOUS.

Old person is frightened of change. News at 11.

Men for the most part will always get away with abusing women and children. They love doing it and worldwide legal, political and social hierarchies have been set up by men to do just that without ever being held accountable.

My father abused his children but his wife allowed him to. She certainly was not going to risk her marriage for the well being of her children. I think part of the problem is that the me too movement is totally an all anti male thing as in all men are pigs.

Acknowledging that many women were complicit in this as in ambition at any cost is important too.

For many women in Hollywood who have profited from powerful men sampling their wares wearing black is the height of hypocrisy and makes an important issue a target of mockery. But then the public goes along with it having no sense of the irony of the situation.

This old dried up bitch is pathetic.

And frottage is not acceptable in any circumstance unless you are a gay man and the male aggressor is hot.

#ImWithHer

I mean Catherine, or your pantsuit Jesus who gleefully defended child rapists and attacked her husband’s sexual assault victims! But that’s different right? Sorry, Time’s Up.

I’ve never been more disappointed in DL than today. Comparing French sexual mores to Pakistani’s, shitting on a great actress because she doesn’t make schlock....

[QUOTE] They are the very picture of not understanding intersectional feminism

SWJ crap.

R23 Men absolutely do not know the different between seducing and flirting and abuse.

Men are social retards who can't even read body language.

I'm guessing none of you have ever been a beautiful young American woman in France.

One of my ex-gf's did a semester abroad in Avignon in 1999 when she was 20. She was 5'10" and very slim, with long blonde hair and blue eyes. But she dressed like a scruffy, soft butch lesbian, in baggy clothes and too-long jeans, and she was so shy she looked down and dragged her feet when she walked. Certainly in no way could she be considered to be dressed "provocatively."

But she learned very quickly that she couldn't walk the Avignon streets alone even in broad daylight. Men would grab at her and paw her breasts and try to persuade her to have sex with them (in French, of course, but she spoke French). The catcalls from cars were endless. She was so upset she used to call me (oh, the phone bills on MCI!) and cry. Of course, she didn't walk alone from then on. Students in the program, if they went out and it got dark, would spend the night wherever they were to avoid walking back to the dorms until the sun came up -- and then they would only go back in groups. Still, one of the girls in the dorm was raped by a man who had followed her.

I don't think men (yes, even gay men) can ever understand what it feels like to have to consider men as "the other," something to be negotiated around or manipulated in order to do what you need to do day to day; knowing that if you disturb the wrong man even for a second, you may be fired or beaten or raped or murdered or followed incessantly by a stalker.

Women have had to learn to be subservient, to nod their heads when men are spouting nonsense (if I had a nickel for every time a man droned on incessantly about something I knew more about than he did, or I knew was wrong!), to be gracious and never hurt a man's sensitive feelings. I, as a lifelong (out) lesbian, have never been very good at any of that, and I constantly wonder how straight women do it.

There are a lot of things I dislike about French culture. They can keep it.

Like this.

R185 So that's where the Muslims in Cologne and elsewhere get the idea they can harass and assault women -- they must have learned it from French tourists!

R169, Your students are as ignorant as ours!

Gérard Depardieu is a rapist? what?

DEPARDIEU TO SUE OVER 'RAPIST' STORIES

Catherine is one of those old school women. They prostituted themselves for work and they feel that the younger generations should have to do the same thing.

Rape isn't a big deal in France. They love rapists

R185. & r186 LIES and self-victimising bullshit. As if attractive men don’t get “harassed” walking past a gaggle of women. Pathetic. Social purity feminism trying to turn the clock back

You wish, r192.

r178, can you leave your mother issues out of this. It's not about that. I guess it never occurred to you that a person who beats up children will beat up women as well. That's why many wives and mothers stay silent in the face of abuse.

I think the #MeToo movement is where feminism meets man hating.

Greta Gerwig has now announced she regretted working with Woody Allen. All the allegations about Allen were out there when she worked for him but she has suddenly realized what a feminist she is now that she wants an Oscar. Didn't Gerwig also break up the marriage of Baumbach and Jennifer Jason Leigh?

NO accountability as usual. Fucking idiots like Greta Gerwig and Ellen Page happily accept the Woody gigs and then conveniently regret it when it becomes popular to do so. I will never support either of them again. Imbeciles.

This is why I love Emma Stone. She does her good strong work and shuts up off-screen and nobody respects her less for doing so. She is white hot now and she not only works for Woody Allen but says she enjoys working with Woody Allen. Rather refreshing.

I never understood why people called her the most beautiful woman in the world. I've always found her pretty, but not gorgeous or anything special. In fact, she's kind of manly looking. She's short and squat, too.

[R139] French President Macron is more a centrist not really a right winger at all running the show.

Cheers for concurring [R168]

Catherine Deneuve IS gorgeous, no doubt R197. Anyone would have to be blind to not see how stunning she was and still is, at almost 75 years of age. Let's not take that away from her. I tried to link to some photos but I don't know how to do that on here yet. (help?)

But this Stockholm Syndrome response is just too much. So is her support of rapists.

At least feminists in France are hitting back about women's rights. Join the current century, people. Or maybe it's just too late for some.

Women harass men too, folks. It isn't a one-way street. Deneuve has had more than her share of young lovers over the years, I'm sure some of them were pushed into it.

Acting as a profession will never be free of harassment, bullying. You've got literally tens of thousands of people trying to be actors - and most of them have zero talent but are physically attractive more often than the general population - that's why they want to be actors. There are a few hundred roles and thousands of people chasing those roles. Plenty have always been willing to put out to get roles which leads the powers that be to assume that ALL wannabe actors will put out. When you have that much competition for a job (and tell me another profession that does), you are inevitably going to have abuse.

Look at the woman claiming James Franco was abusive because he made her do a nude scene and paid her peanuts. She signed a contract to do nudity and also signed a contract to earn peanuts. She's a nobody who wanted a job. Now she bitches? Come on. This issue is not straightforward and never will be.

Mhh... r201? I don't think ANYONE felt "pushed" to be Deneuve's lover. I mean, have you seen eh?

[quote] Women harass men too, folks. It isn't a one-way street.

Then how come you hear not even one personal story about it?

*have you seen HER*, dammit

Catherine Deneuve: let me explain why #metoo is nothing like a 'witch-hunt' | Van Badham

This is the same country where a man can beat his actress girlfriend to death, get out of prison after only 4 years and be on the cover magazine in 2017 talking about his suffering and pain. Because he is the poor victim here. Bien sur!

Catherine Deneuve's claim of #MeToo witch-hunt sparks backlash

Human interaction on whose terms r38? I had watched straight guys say and do some really stupid shit when it comes to wanting to get a woman's attention which for them is perfectly reasonable. But there are women who don't want to be approached at work for dates under any circumstances. They want to just be at their job, doing their job, but some guy feels that his nonthreatening suggestion to go have some coffee or a drink is fine. But the woman feels put upon and uncomfortable because she wants to turn him down. So if she turns the guy down will it be awkward? Will he have an attitude? If she then accepts an invite from some other guy and the first guy finds out about it and confronts her, "Hey when I asked you out you didn't want to go." will that change the work environment?

The human interaction piece that has to change is straight men thinking it is 100% their privilege to look at any woman as an agent for their ego gratification by whatever means. Which is what they are looking for by chatting them up, asking them out etc. But guys aren't aware that they seek out female attention to pump up their own egos and for the most part use them exclusively for this purpose while ignoring any desire or need on the woman's part to be appreciated or complimented for things other than her looks.

And now they will come after her.

“Rape is a crime. But insistent or clumsy flirting is not a crime, nor is gallantry a chauvinist aggression,” Deveuve wrote.

r195 You don't have to renounce Woody to get an Oscar.

Just ask Cate Blanchett.

R197 She's not short. She's 5ft 6in =167.6 cm

The implications are huge in that if this whole movement against sexual assault against women catches fire in debate or otherwise in countries other than France, then we could witness a major societal conflagration. France does not want it's male privilege disturbed, there are plenty of women who benefit from it as much as the men, Deneuve being one such woman I'm sure.

Would be fascinating to watch.

50 Beautiful Photos of French Actress Catherine Deneuve from between the 1960s and 1980s

R194 the subject of this thread completely refutes what you are saying.

Some women allow abuse not out of fear but because it gets them what they want. This whole #metoo campaign shows that.

To say simply men are pigs is counter productive.

You are just as bigoted as those who are saying all women ask for it. Jesus people are dim.

R144 for the win

R163 The Jane Fonda comparison is on point.

I don't have the time to scroll through the whole thread, but is there a link to this list:

[quote]Deneuve and around 100 other women had signed an open letter blasting the new “puritanism” of the avalanche of “denunciations” following claims that the Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein had sexually assaulted dozens of women.

Isabelle Huppert can't be on the list, she supported the #MeToo campaign.

Lie my mother says, she’s glamorous but she’s not beautiful.

I found an external link to the statement signed by the French women, including Deneuve:

[quote]PARIS — Rape is a crime. But trying to pick up someone, however persistently or clumsily, is not — nor is gallantry an attack of machismo.

[quote]The Harvey Weinstein scandal sparked a legitimate awakening about the sexual violence that women are subjected to, particularly in their professional lives, where some men abuse their power. This was necessary. But what was supposed to liberate voices has now been turned on its head: We are being told what is proper to say and what we must stay silent about — and the women who refuse to fall into line are considered traitors, accomplices!

[quote]Just like in the good old witch-hunt days, what we are once again witnessing here is puritanism in the name of a so-called greater good, claiming to promote the liberation and protection of women, only to enslave them to a status of eternal victim and reduce them to defenseless preys of male chauvinist demons.

[quote]Ratting out and calling out

[quote]In fact, #MeToo has led to a campaign, in the press and on social media, of public accusations and indictments against individuals who, without being given a chance to respond or defend themselves, are put in the exact same category as sex offenders. This summary justice has already had its victims: men who’ve been disciplined in the workplace, forced to resign, and so on., when their only crime was to touch a woman’s knee, try to steal a kiss, talk about "intimate" things during a work meal, or send sexually-charged messages to women who did not return their interest.

[quote]This frenzy for sending the "pigs" to the slaughterhouse, far from helping women empower themselves, actually serves the interests of the enemies of sexual freedom, the religious extremists, the reactionaries and those who believe — in their righteousness and the Victorian moral outlook that goes with it — that women are a species "apart," children with adult faces who demand to be protected.

[quote]Men, for their part, are called on to embrace their guilt and rack their brains for "inappropriate behavior" that they engaged in 10, 20 or 30 years earlier, and for which they must now repent. These public confessions, and the foray into the private sphere or self-proclaimed prosecutors, have led to a climate of totalitarian society.

[quote]The purging wave seems to know no bounds. The poster of an Egon Schiele nude is censored; calls are made for the removal of a Balthus painting from a museum on grounds that it’s an apology for pedophilia; unable to distinguish between the man and his work, Cinémathèque Française is told not to hold a Roman Polanski retrospective and another for Jean-Claude Brisseau is blocked. A university judges the film Blow-Up, by Michelangelo Antonioni, to be "misogynist" and "unacceptable." In light of this revisionism, even John Ford (The Searchers) and Nicolas Poussin (The Abduction of the Sabine Women) are at risk.

Already, editors are asking some of us to make our masculine characters less "sexist" and more restrained in how they talk about sexuality and love, or to make it so that the "traumas experienced by female characters" be more evident! Bordering on ridiculous, in Sweden a bill was presented that calls for explicit consent before any sexual relations! Next we’ll have a smartphone app that adults who want to sleep together will have to use to check precisely which sex acts the other does or does not accept.

Hey R185 I am so fucking sorry for your friend in Avignon. I was 21 in 1999 and I still live in France, despite my many attempts to escape. My professional life here has been a series of unwanted-attention situations, one after another. Since I was so attractive apparently, I eventually gave up on work and got partnered. My partner makes enough for the both of us and I work occasionally, never for long, and try to keep it low-key. The only perks have been receiving attention from female singers during concerts. Well, there have been others, but life here is medieval.

PART 2:

[quote]The essential freedom to offend

[quote]Philosopher Ruwen Ogien defended the freedom to offend as essential to artistic creation. In the same way, we defend a freedom to bother as indispensable to sexual freedom.

[quote]Today we are educated enough to understand that sexual impulses are, by nature, offensive and primitive — but we are also able to tell the difference between an awkward attempt to pick someone up and what constitutes a sexual assault.

[quote]Above all, we are aware that the human being is not a monolith: A woman can, in the same day, lead a professional team and enjoy being a man’s sexual object, without being a "whore" or a vile accomplice of the patriarchy. She can make sure that her wages are equal to a man’s but not feel forever traumatized by a man who rubs himself against her in the subway, even if that is regarded as an offense. She can even consider this act as the expression of a great sexual deprivation, or even as a non-event.

[quote]As women, we don’t recognize ourselves in this feminism that, beyond the denunciation of abuses of power, takes the face of a hatred of men and sexuality. We believe that the freedom to say "no" to a sexual proposition cannot exist without the freedom to bother. And we consider that one must know how to respond to this freedom to bother in ways other than by closing ourselves off in the role of the prey.

[quote]For those of us who decided to have children, we think that it is wiser to raise our daughters in a way that they may be sufficiently informed and aware to fully live their lives without being intimidated or blamed.

[quote]Incidents that can affect a woman’s body do not necessarily affect her dignity and must not, as difficult as they can be, necessarily make her a perpetual victim. Because we are not reducible to our bodies. Our inner freedom is inviolable. And this freedom that we cherish is not without risks and responsibilities.

List of women who signed the statement at link:

R185 Today I had a 30-year-old male colleague (I'm 40) explain to me what jet lag was. Just because I was surprised he was jet lagged for a 2-hour difference. I gave up on telling him I knew about jet lag when he was still pissing his pants.

Dude R186, that picture is from Italy. It was taken by Ruth Orkin. Anyway yes France is the same.

Maybe Deneuve could give this a look.

Then: Louis Jourdan

Now: Pepe Le Pew

God I remember that summer R206. His wife committed suicide a few years later. It's also rumoured she lied in court for him (about his history of domestic abuse).

Wow after read r222 I'd have to say Catherine is fucked in the head. Mind fucked. That's too bad because any woman I care about better be angry and ready to do bodily harm to anyone who puts a hand on them. Unacceptable, absolutely unacceptable.

In a recent flick, SAGE-FEMME / MIDWIFE (2017), Deneuve plays a blowsy old slag who crashes back into the life of a humorless middle-aged, man-hating woman (Catherine Frot). Since it's written and directed by a French dude, the liberated promiscuous woman gets the other woman to "loosen up" and embrace Life (and dick).

Isn't Catherine Frot supposed to be a lesbian anyway?

"No one who keeps their damned hands to themselves is getting fired. "

Not yet.

Remember Dominique Strauss-Kahn who sexually assaulted a maid in NYC. For him, it was just an appetizer. French culture is extremely sexist and chauvinistic.

ORSON WELLES: "AhhhhHHHHHHHHHH the Frensh...."

R222, I thought the entire list was 100 actresses. It's all over the place which actually makes it even less relevant. Maybe they should say, "They could only find 100 women in all of France to sign this piece of shit."

[quote] My father abused his children but his wife allowed him to. She certainly was not going to risk her marriage for the well being of her children.

Maybe Deneuve can play her in a movie?

Catherine Millet, one of the lead writers on this "manifesto", defended the text on national radio today saying she regretted not having experienced rape... Whatever.

Holy shit, who are all the frauen on here?

R233 merci très drôle

well she's right!

French people - men, women, gay, straight - like raunchy sex. Americans are puritanical.

The last scene in 'The Umbellas of Cherbourg'.

The Umbrellas of Cherbourg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blah Blah Land

Glorious R242. Hard not to get choked up at that ending if you've watched the whole film.

Interestingly on Celebrity Big Brother UK there are three older women in the house and they share the sentiments of Miss Deneuve, that women are too sensitive and taking the "attentions" men show them too seriously. So it may indeed be an age thing cause the younger women weren't having any if it.

If interested check out the video.

R236 OH THE PATRIARCHY!!! How you’ve suffered! Like you can’t possibly lean ANYTHING extra about any particular subject from someone younger than you and certainly not with a nasty penis attached!! The indignity!!! Silly privileged bitch. Why don’t you SJWs conrefocus your hysteria on GENUINE women’s suffered growing in “certain societies” and the developing world.

Same type of older women that voted for Trump.

^Oops that was for r223

R246 was for r223

Catherine Deneuve is what Iceberg Slim would call a bottom bitch.

OMG, r201. You are"sure"?? You are stupid to the max, is what you are. Like, Trump University drop-out stupid.

I reported a female colleague to HR today and it felt GOOD. She's very flirty with all the men. I told HR that it made me uncomfortable.

good for R252 - the worst sexually harassing boss I ever had was a woman

I will say this: I take the stance that all of this is overkill but I did audit an acting class tonight, a well known in town (though not really respected) teacher. And I was a bit shocked because, even in the current climate (I think he is oblivious to, quite frankly), I heard him tell one girl "Nice ass but I don't want to look at it the whole scene" and told a story about his gay friend coming out to him all tears and how he responded that he loved him "but never stand behind me again."

My mouth dropped and there were lesser comments too like commenting on weight, male and female alike -- but this was in the course of an hour or two. It was really weird to see first hand, though I still don't think it's that big of a deal (the answer is simple, go study somewhere else, which I certainly plan to do).

She is a whore, darlin

R254 Your teacher sounds like a creep but it doesn't surprise me that things in the real world operate in much the same way it's always been. There is tendency for people to believe every narrative the media tries to shove down their throats when most people walking down the street don't care or simply don't watch the news.

Still, this was connected to show business even -- and we are in the middle of this debate right now big time. And he still made those kinds of comments? Just felt stupid actually. You'd think he'd at least cool it for the time being. And NOT my teacher, fyi, and won't be.

[quote] told a story about his gay friend coming out to him all tears and how he responded that he loved him "but never stand behind me again."

LOL, R254. I have to remember to use that line!

Still waiting for the list of all the innocent famous men who've had their careers ruined...

Only a gay man would suggest that CATHERINE FUCKING DENEUVE has likely strong armed some men into having sex with her.

I am 12 years younger than she and less glamorous, and even I could go out tonight and get a hot guy to fuck me.

Not saying it would develop into a love affair....absolutely not. Gay men just don't "get" the fact that even men who they perceive as the most desirable of straight studs will one time fuck any woman who has all her teeth and does not require a bag over her head.

The pickiness which exists in the Grindr universe does not exist with hetero men who want sex.

[quote]r110 Deneuve is one of the greatest actresses on the planet

[quote]r33 Her list of great films and performances measures up to anyone's.

She doesn't really give "performances"; she's a chilly statue. That's her whole schtick.

She plays (beautiful) catatonics, primarily. Even Dominique Sanda had a wider range of emotion.

[R22], what's a shower?

I would trust Catherine Deneuve's advise on a proper eyebrow arch...but not on women's rights.

She's entirely too bourgeois for that level of thinking.

R262 Stewie needs a shower at the end of this one

The whole Weinstein #metoo, etc... backlash is becoming diluted with women (and guys) crying sexual assault for anything and everything under the sun. There are real victims of sexual assault, and it's really disgusting to see so many people jump on the bandwagon simply for attention. I'm sorry, but if some guy 20 years ago grabbed your ass at a party, that's not the same as being physically raped. That's like saying if someone said you had a big nose, trying to sue them for decades of mental anguish. I've been groped and unwelcome-ly hit on by by other guys at gay bars/clubs - I'm not running to a psychiatrist and the police screaming that I've been assaulted. It's an annoyance at best, but a far cry from actually being assaulted. Get real.

R250 Anyone using an Iceberg Slim reference is okay in my book.

The Victorian age is repeating itself again.

Mass hysteria! No freedom of speech/ideas! Witch hunts!

Thank you, R225, that BBC interview was stunning. Zelda Perkins is one helluva courageous person. Many people would have been destroyed by what she witnessed and experienced.

[quote] 'Rape is a crime, but trying to seduce someone, even persistently or cack-handedly, is not

Zzis iz what I tell zem, but zay will not believe

[quote]Still waiting for the list of all the innocent famous men who've had their careers ruined...

That's a little hard to do, r259, when all the accusations have been by Twitter and any man trying to defend himself has been bashed for defending himself.

I can, however, give you some very public examples that happened prior to metoo... mattress girl, the duke lacrosse team, "Jackie" at rolling stone, lens dunham naming an innocent guy... Thankfully, all of these didn't play out on Twitter and had some sort of vetting or these would have been innocent people with ruined lives.

R134 Where have you been? It's a well-known fact that Weinstein destroyed all the films that he bought AFTER Marion was cast, some of them he bought after filming was complete. He ruined her chances to get an Oscar nomination several times, in favor of people like Penelope Cruz playing herself and shaking her asshole in Nine, and his darling Amy Adams in a performance/movie that no one cared. I love how Amy Adams got a pass in the Weinstein scandal when he bought 3 of her undeserved Oscar nominations. That's not suspicious at all.

[quote] Healthcare is never free, you moron, and France is overrun with Muslims and and the Right-wing is running the show. France is a shithole that can't pay its bills.

R139, why so angry? Most European countries have free universal healthcare. It's not a misnomer - they get free medical care regardless of their employment or tax status (even stay-at-home parents raising children, college students, pensioners). So it definitely is free for many people. No need to call me a "moron" for stating a fact.

As for being overrun with Muslims and right-wingers - same can be said about almost any country these days. France is hardly alone in this. It's the result of globalism (which led to anti-globalist sentiment - i.e. nationalism), and wars in the ME (which led to multiple refugee crises).

R259 Me

[quote] Bordering on ridiculous, in Sweden a bill was presented that calls for explicit consent before any sexual relations! Next we’ll have a smartphone app that adults who want to sleep together will have to use to check precisely which sex acts the other does or does not accept.

I actually read that a smartphone app like this is already in the works - to record both parties' general consent.

Deneuve doesn't matter. She's a dinosaur who has little appeal and has done nothing for the underclass in society.

She's boring, stagnant, and most importantly, WRONG.

R274 And it uses face recognition to verify the ages of the participants.

R275 yes... the DL, home of the saviors of the underclass!!

Go take a good bath Deneuve instead of drenching yourself in an old bottle of "Deneuve" perfume.

I don't care who this boring bitch is and how she is so bougie...

R242 Joan Crawford called. She wants her hair back.

Update. I introduced the Deneuve topic and sexual harassment, to my students in the business school and not only did the boys know Deneuve (!), they really ran with it my intro. Black Lives Matter, Islamic assimilation, even Native American Rights movement. (!!??) Swiss students 20 years old. So - engineers are geeks but future business leaders know what's going on.

[quote]R281 I introduced the Deneuve topic to my students in the business school and not only did the boys know Deneuve (!), they really ran with it

Like Isabelle Huppert, she has never really stopped working in France (where movies are cheaper to make). So Yes, Swiss students will know who she is, as she's still on magazine covers, etc.

Over here, the most visible thing Deneuve did recently was a guest spot on [italic] Nip/Tuck, [/italic] and that was a decade ago.

When the only things you watch is American films sure you don't know who is Deneuve

Steven Spielberg: Catherine Deneuve wrong on witch-hunt claim after Weinstein scandal

Serial rapist and pedo Silvio Berlusconi hails Catherine Deneuve's 'blessed words' following Harvey Weinstein scandal

Roseanne Barr looks better than Catherine Deneuve, seriously.

Who knew that not only would someone write that in 2018, but be considered correct.

Silvio Berlusconi sings the praises of Catherine Deneuve, says she has uttered words of wisdom

Berlusconi adds: "It is natural for a woman to be pleased when a man courts her ... I don't have much experience with this because it is always the women who try to seduce me".

I really don't really have anything against Deneuve (aside from the fact that she seems identical in every role.)

I imagine something was lost in translation with her views on this...plus we're not seeing a complete interview on the subject.

[italic] If I may just adjust my barcalounger [/italic] ....electronic news is diseminated so quickly now that no time is given to fact-check quotes and go back to the original source. Maybe she'll elaborate on her eyebrow-raising statements, later. If everyone's not on to the next story.

Until then, we can gaze at more of her seemingly LIMITLESS acting expressions:

You people are ridiculous. She's been in classics like "Belle du Jour" and "Umbrellas of Cherbourg" and is Oscar nominated for great work in "Indochine". And hipsters will know her from "Dancer in the Dark" where, trust me, she doesn't just stare ahead. She and Bjork have some great scenes together.

Disagree with her if you want but don't try to make her into a bad actress. Like those sad idiots at the Golden Globes suddenly making jokes about Kevin Spacey's acting and inability to do a Southern accent. As if...

Spacey's accent in HOC is crap

Deneuve was also great in Téchiné's 'My Favorite Season' and Desplechin's 'A Christmas Tale.' She still does consistently good work in good, interesting films, even if the performances aren't that flashy. She's not a flashy actress.

This thread headline is a lie!

Deneuve didn't 'denounce' the #MeToo campaign. She used another word, a French word, a word which French people comprehend but which 'stupide Américains' do not.

only on DL Madame Deneuve would be a "mediocre actress" and "not that beautiful". Americans are really the worst.

You're right R293.

'Stupide Américains' are really the worst.

She's prettier than Angelina Ho. She's a solid 7/10.

R290 His accent is supposed to be pretentious. He plays a larger than life character. The show is also quite theatrical in its execution so the over the top accent works well.

Roseann Barr is close to 10 years younger than Deneuve. And I promise you that if you showed them in equal lighting and makeup camera ready, Roseann Barr would look like Ms Deneuve's ugly stepsister.

R293 only on DL Madame Deneuve would be a "mediocre actress" and "not that beautiful". Americans are really the worst.

Well let me be the first to invite you to take your bleached blonde, frozen-faced RAPE APOLOGIST back to f-ing FRANCE with you!

DeBitche tried to make it in Hollywood in the 70s playing a hooker in "HUSTLE" and we stayed away [italic] in droves. [/italic] We didn't need her snooty, skinny ass then, and we DON'T need it now!

And PS: she doesn't move her face in this clip, either...even when Burt Reynol's is beating her up! (She lets him make love to her afterwards, of course, because hey...he's just [italic] "persistently seducing" [/italic] her, as she'd lecture us these days!)

I'm no longer a fan.

R298 I loved the move "Hustle," and I thought CD was the most beautiful creature I had ever seen, with the possible exception of Sharon Tate.

She is icy, yes. But so was Grace Kelly.

AMERICA (USA) is the new GESTAPO OF SEX..... France is very proud of CATHERINE DENEUVE and many other women (young, middle age etc...) who think like her.

I'm sorry to say that, but in the USA, women are most of the time "Lesbian-feminist" (that's why they hate so much men!) while in France, some women are "feminist" above all. It makes a big difference.

Only French citizens can judge Deneuve.

wasn't she a side piece to Marcello Mastroianni for decades. ? He even refused to divorce his wife ,

Typical troll bullshit. Misquote, mischaracterise, make the conversation about something else (her looks, her acting), sock puppets chiming in with "I'm no longer a fan"...Boris doesn't give a fuck about the actual topic, he just wants to foul the Datalounge well so that it ceases to operate as a place for gay people to exchange views, because independent views by intelligent commentators is a threat to their propaganda.

[quote] R303 wasn't she a side piece to Marcello Mastroianni for decades? He even refused to divorce his wife

But she got his baby...

Which pissed lookalike Faye off royally. I suspect he was the love of her life...the one that got away.

(R255) For the " NASTY PERVY HOMO" : the # MeToo campaign is only for "castrating men" by furious feminist (sometimes lesbians) and frustrated women (underrated actrices most of the time). Anyway I think that when you are sexual assaulted or raped it's the work of Justice and not Twitter or Facebook........!!!!!!!

Eats her words.

Catherine Deneuve is just another reason why we LOVE France!

[quote]R306 the # MeToo campaign is only for "castrating men" by furious feminist (sometimes lesbians) and frustrated women...when you are sexual assaulted or raped it's the work of Justice and not Twitter or Facebook........!!!!!!!

Perhaps consider not telling women how to live their lives.

Let me guess....are you a white male?

Figures.

#DeneuveKnew

R309 “Let me guess....are you a white male?”

Silly insincere Intellectually challenged SJW cunt. How’s dem black African wimmins and Arabic wimmmins and Asian wimmins etc etc etc doin then?

Deneuve came out with an "apology" - of sorts - yesterday, saying she's worried about the "art" of artist with a history of sexual misconduct disappearing. She then proceeded to name Da Vinci (pedophile claims), Sade (rapist, pedophile), Schiele (pedophile claims), and Gauguin (pedophile claims) as examples of such artists. Oh, and Phil Spector (!!), wife beater and murderer.

Pedophilia factors HUGELY into her argument, consciously or not. Everyone knows her staunch support of rapist Polanski's history with VERY young, underage women.

She might not be spelling it out, but WTH is she really saying? She supports pedophiles if they create great art?

Also, does someone get a "pass" on sexual crime because they create art? In her mind, obviously. In my mind, HELL NO.

Who knew that behind that gorgeous face lay such a sad, twisted mind. She clearly has deep issues. And I used to love her...

R312 She's saying that if the art world banned or cast out all the above artists' *work* based on the artists' unsavory behavior, (and hundreds of others thinkers, writers and artists of various stripes), you'd be left with a pale, impoverished form of Western culture. And she has a point.

R313 While she has a point, her artists of choice and their history is *my* point. You know?

Who's said anything in the MeToo campaign about throwing out artists' work? I think she also hinted at Kevin Spacey? Yea, so she's pro KS, too.

R312, most of these film people have such a bloated, over-appreciation for film and art. The truth is that most people have no use for Gauguin, Polanski, Allen ,etc.

Da Vinci would be the only person in history whose pedo reputation would not affect his artistic standing, and there is NO PROOF whatsoever that he was a pedophile.

So no, removing pedophiles from the 'artistic world' is NO BIG LOSS.

Secondly, the era of film is coming to a close. There are too many alternatives to cinema, and millinials would rather see themselves on Facebook, go hiking, or make their own videos, music, or artwork.

Again, she's an actress with an over-inflated sense of self-worth.

You are JUST an entertainer, Ms. Deneuve, get over it!

Da Vinci was a pedo!?

No, there is no proof, just pedophiles who want to claim him as one of their own.

Everything comes to an end, and now it's cinema's turn. No big deal. That's life.

The internet has altered young people's minds to where interacting is necessary to be entertained, and that's okay. Young people do not want to sit and watch a two hour movie unless they have some control over it, so they will only watch at home, with the ability to fast forward and pause at will.

And they can star in their own videos on Youtube, so who needs old farts like Deneuve and Woody Allen anyway?

Cinema is dying for another obvious yet unspoken reason: most actors are too average looking. There are fewer and fewer real beauties in film anymore, and many more hotties on Youtube, of whom you can watch for FREE.

Plopping down one's hard-earned cash to watch an average-looking schmoe feels like a sucker's game.

R315 "MOST people" don't send out any cultural tentacles further than Snapchat and adult coloring books; that's not the point. You want to re-frame the issue by narrowing it to pedohiles, which was not the origin of Deneuve's statements at all, and by acquitting Da Vinci of any wrong-doing (he thinks you're cute, btw). You and your friends can excise all the suspected pedophiles, perverts, gropers and misogynists from the history of civilization, but the rest of us may differ. You've pronounced the era of film "over" -- in favor of what, the era of memes and Hulu? Spare us your brave new world.

R319 thinks that those boring, over-inflated 'artists' are worth forgiving and worships their turd-feathers.

Listen honey, if I want to see a fat, homely jerk-off whose body is dissipating from excess I'll stay home for FREE and look in the mirror, toots.

R319,

yes, I want excise all the pedophiles from history---what in the HELL is wrong with that?

And what's up with your bullshit about 'tentacles' --- name ONE pedophile in history whose 'work' is THAT important?

All pedophile apologists love to push the 'art' angle as if those who criticize pedos are rubes and idiots.

Sorry, but NO pedophile is worth apologizing for!

Why are these perverts so fucking UGLY anyway, and they age like bad cheese.

Deneuve is unassailable and has a right to speak her mind. She has aged gracefully. I never forget how she put Charlie Rose in his place. She has remained a legend and a working actress. I would love to meet her.

R320 R321 R322 thinks that excusing pedophiles and appreciating artistic works created by those pedophiles are the same thing. They're not. And of course, you're still singling out pedophiles when this is about sexual aggression in general. And by your own account, you will never be the object of such aggression, so calm the fuck down.

[quote]Secondly, the era of film is coming to a close. There are too many alternatives to cinema, and millinials would rather see themselves on Facebook, go hiking, or make their own videos, music, or artwork.

I don't know what fantasy world you're living in, but if cinema is dying, it's because people are just binge watching shows on TV. Hardly an improvement, and I don't know what makes you think that the unsavory characters who populate the film industry don't exist there too. And most other walks of life.

And since we're bringing up Da Vinci and Gauguin and all...if you honestly think that art, historically, has been a more corrupt field of endeavor than religion or politics (to name just two examples), you're out of your damn mind.

Those French women sure have strange views on sexual matters.

One of them even says that some women enjoy being raped. Yeah, ok. Time out.

There is no cinema history without Deneuve. Anyone who doesn't know that is a hick.

R327, Remember that the illuminati has been strong in France for centuries, which has kept the majority in an underclass, and that underclass has internalized their abuse.

It's called Stockholm Syndrome.

Film/cinema is dying a fast death, and i a generation very few will remember who our 'Hollywood stars" are/were and that is that.

Many people under thirty cannot name the members of the Beatles, or have no respect for their music or legacy. That happened in ONE generation--and music is a much more intimate art form that film, therefore NO ONE will be remembering Streep, Allen, Spielberg, etc. because that's life. And that's why you don't 'die for for art,' because very, very few leave a legacy for the future.

You can argue with me all you want but this FACT.

China should come in and buy up Hollywood and produce good movies for their huge, movie-going population. And I think that's coming.

who

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What do you think, R331? Over three hundred responses on a thread about Deneuve. Clearly, a lot of people care to comment. You cared enough to post.

It's a rhetorical question....you fat whore!

The film market is currently being supported by China, because Westerners would rather stay home and fast forward their television shows.

Therefore, China needs to buy up Hollywood to fill up those empty movie theaters they've bought up.

And I am looking forward to watching some great Chinese films!

Deneuve saying that artists have a right to be messed-up flawed people is exactly the same as the "boys will be boys" justification that is used to ensure white guys get away with rape with just a slap on the wrist. There has to be zero tolerance for any sexually predatory behaviour if we are truly civilized. But that's precisely the problem - the West was never civilized as it likes to think it is, as Mahatma Gandhi pointed out.

R335 I don't think she's saying that at all. All she's saying is that art should stand on its own and be appreciated within its historical context.

I cant wait for our Chinese overlords. God help us.

The attitude "artists should be forgiven for their crimes/flaws' is a Western-only mode of thinking.

Other cultures take a more holistic approach, understanding that only a moral person can produce great art.

Again, cinema is very, very overrated and needs to be studied as a moral compass.

R337 =

There are claims about DaVinci, but we can barely cope with our own current "artists" to want to reach that far. Nothing that I'm aware of (though I'm no art historian) to say that that rumor is true.

I don't agree that cinema is a dying art, because so much of the entertainment business revolves around it: award shows, fashion, celebrity culture. But many of those same actors are moving into the television arena, something that would not be considered by these same actors even 5 years ago. I was brought up on films myself from a very young age in the late 80s, so I can't imagine a world without cinema. However, to be fair, I could count on one hand the number of times I went to the cinema last year. Then again, they are making so much unworthy films, and the cost is ridiculous. Most of the time, I just get the screener DVDs.

Back to Deneuve...the more I think about her comment, the more upset I become. She is basically saying that art is more important than humans. So if an artist rapes a child (pedophilia seems to be her focal point, perhaps unconsciously and I'm afraid to ask why), that child is a sacrifice to the art. Am I reading too much into it? Let's recall her most recent appearance on the French chat show where she, once again, supported Polanski's rape crime. Also, I feel she hates America and Americans and that the MeToo movement came out of Hollywood (not being snarky, but I think she's bitter the latter never came calling for her, not really), and then Balance Ton Porc ("squeal on your pig") version came out of France chapped her a*s, because she thinks of Americans as Puritans - she can't say this enough times at various events to anyone who will listen! - and she doesn't want the "American Puritanical" attitude to migrate to her beloved France.

The fact that she gives her countrywomen so little credit to think they're copying Americans, instead of finding their OWN voice to speak up against the harassment and over-sexualization of some French people to the point of plenty of cases of "importuning," has got to be insulting to the people there. I have seen so many comments from young (25 and under) French women AND men who have been very anti-Deneuve since she made the Polanski comment last year, let alone this anti-MeToo letter and the right to harass women by men. What a stupid move on her part at this stage in her life/career.

I do like some of her most recent films, less so her pre-1990s ones. And I always got the impression from her interviews that she's a classy, intelligent woman with compassion - but maybe she's just that good of an actress? Maybe she's suffering from "internalized misogyny" that so many people are referring to on social media...I'm not sure. But all is not well in Paree.