What was Joan Crawford's best performance?

Any time she played a virgin.

Humoresque. It was nice that so later in her career she was able to throw away her mannerisms and ticks and actually act one more time.

She finally won the Oscar for Mildred Pierce, and she had to screen test for it first. A lot of work and effort there.

Flaemmchen

The 1947 "Possessed."

She's also quite good in the 1941 "A Woman's Face," but the film itself is so silly it works against her.

I should note she is never at the level of a Barbara Stanwyck nor a Bette Davis nor a Margaret Sullavan in that decade. But she can be quite decent.

An unlikely scene for Joan Crawford in Mildred Pierce.

Rain, The Women, Mildred Pierce, Humoresque, Possessed

Humoresque

Joan elegantly posing in bed with her Oscar.

Playing the Jimmy Fund Spokeswoman......

Mommie Dearest

Harriet Craig

I would say either Grand Hotel or The Women, everything else is about as sincere as that Jimmy Fund commercial...

When up the stairs, ran all my prayers - saying mom it's me, I'm here.....for six weeks every summer and Christmas every other year. The role of part time mother is the hardest role she played.

That shitty show where Lucy and Viv thought she was poor. She outacted both those fat bitches.

"Torch Song." Had, "Sunset Boulevard" ended differently, this would have been Norma's comeback performance.

I thought she was just right in "Autumn Leaves" as the spinster who falls for a younger, eemotionally disturbed man.

Reunion in France

Hoochie Coochie dancer in “Flamingo Road”

Mildred Pierce. In all the other near good performances, she's so fucking affected, that "accent" ruins all of it.

TROG

Mildred Pierce is the obvious performance and not only because of her acclaim for the role; she was phenomenal. I love her in The Last of Mrs. Cheyney - perhaps my favorite of her films. It is often overlooked despite her amazing skill. Joan was perfect.

I love Humoresque...Mildred Pierce was pretty much stolen from her by Ann Blyth, Eve Arden and Jack Carson. Shit, even Butterfly McQueen was better than her.

Humoresque. Her suicide was divine.

They All Kissed The Bride, but she was Above Suspicion and had The Best of Everything. However, on the way to her Reunion in France, she felt a Sudden Fear, as if she were Possessed. Forsaking All Others, she disappeared in the Rain and Autumn Leaves.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

I think "Rain" has been re-evaluated over the last few decades and it is rated among her best.

Letty Lynton was the film that made her a superstar, not Grand Hotel. It's a great role for her, ahead of its time. She plays everything gentility to the hilt here, the affected mannerisms, the pretentious refinement. For some reason it all comes together and she delivers a knock-out performance too.

Everytime Mommie screamed "Uncle" Whoever.

She couldn’t act for shit.

Humoresque

The Secret Storm

Oh really, R30. If that's true then why does every gay man love her? We would never celebrate someone without talent, so I guess you're wrong.

R28 Damn! She was terrifying at the 9:50 mark!

[quote] Letty Lynton was the film that made her a superstar, not Grand Hotel.

"Our Dancing Daughters" was the film that made her a superstar.

Adrian had a huge fashion hit with his Letty Lynton dress.

Otto Preminger beat the ham out of her in DAISY KENYON (47). She's practically a recognizable real human being in that movie.

I've never been sure what it was that so impressed me about her performance in MILDRED PIERCE. Both Davis and Stanwyck were better actors, and, on the surface, would've been better for the role.

Yet I don't think so.

I can imagine them playing it, and how they'd play it too. But I'd never want to swap them in for Crawford. I think it's because of Crawford's approach to the role. Davis would've been much more melodramatic, more affecting than Crawford (in a good way). But that misses the point of the character: that she is the frump Veda accuses her of being. That would've been lost if Davis did it. Crawford's usual excessive restraint (her biggest problem) works well there. In fact, we get a more vivid sense of Mildred as a sacrificing tragic heroine that way.

The lower-class housewife maybe originally from the Dustbowl, taking a second job, becoming successful through sheer grit, a bit too old after giving away her life to others -- Crawford's great at that although she doesn't have all the tools at her command that Davis does. Hard to imagine Davis seeming as unspecial and weary as Crawford's Mildred... so I might say that then: MILDRED PIERCE is her best performance.

Though I'm less than set on it. I've gone back and forth on her best before in a way I haven't with Davis or Stanwyck (or KHepburn, who was awful in every single thing) and I'll probably go swing back again the next time I see one, but MILDRED PIERCE is always what springs to mind when I think 'Joan Crawford' even if most of her late '40s WB performances are just as good.

Maybe I'll just have to join with the MOMMIE DEAREST trailer narrator and cast my vote for her greatest performance being... HER LIFE!

"Mildred Pierce was pretty much stolen from her by Ann Blyth, Eve Arden and Jack Carson. Shit, even Butterfly McQueen was better than her. "

Yes, yes. That's kinda the point.

I can honestly say that I have never seen a Crawford performance that I was bowled over by, or that felt believable. Even in MP she is slightly robotic. JC is a museum piece remembered as a campy mother from Hell not as an actress of note.

"(or KHepburn, who was awful in every single thing)"

I love you, R38.

Hepburn was far from awful in everything. She had more talent and timing than Crawford that is for sure. Why do you think critics rave about her much more than Joan?? Think about it.

R9 god, her hair looks like shit in that photo.....

I would say it was Crawford who was terrible in everything....so phoney and artificial. The only time she feels real is when she played those earthy working class girls in the early 1930s. I guess she was playing herself.

Barbara Stanwyck is likable R38 and I do enjoy her films - yet she has never astounded me as an actress at all. She was always just "pretty good" - from Double Indemnity to Christmas in Connecticut to The Lady Eve - all were lovely yet none groundbreaking at all. Of course Davis was great....but mostly at playing Bette Davis. She was a bit of a one-trick pony IMO. Crawford was just as versatile as both of them - at the very least. Mildred Pierce was made for her: she was the right age, still stunningly beautiful and played the role to a T. All of her detractors were changing their tunes after that film was released. Good for Joan.

Any film where she bitch slapped someone.

R45, Stanwyck was without the mannerisms of those other movie queens, that's why I love her. Some people like histrionics, I don't. Stanwyck was a great actress - even if you don't "see" her acting most of the time.

“Hepburn was far from awful in everything. She had more talent and timing than Crawford that is for sure. Why do you think critics rave about her much more than Joan?? Think about it.”

That plays into my point about Mildred Pierce actually.

To understand why Hepburn received such praise and more than Crawford you have to understand the mindset that existed in America in the period they acted. It was an America in which most people — even all the most prominent critics from the limited pre-internet pool of media included — would aspire to eat dog food if it had ‘Product of France’ printed on it.

Crawford was seen as low-class; Hepburn, high class. Crawford, prior to her signing with WB, wasn’t promoted as a ‘serious actress’; Hepburn was. That’s all that there is to it. All of that praise was based on her overdone accent.

It was a time when critics spoke about Greer Garson in the same breath as Bette Davis, hard as it is to believe.

That kind of insecurity is gone now (though simply replaced by a new one). Time has changed and is changing. Hepburn’s reputation has fallen from its peak. Modern critics are much kinder to Crawford than their ‘30s counterparts (where rightly or wrongly)

Anyway, I do, actually, agree on Crawford: she wasn’t a great actress. She was a good, workmanlike one who never did all she could… and perhaps didn’t want to.

I disagree R48. I think from reviews I have read, and the reviews on IMDB etc Hepburn is just as popular know as ever. And she has more critically acclaimed Movies than Davis or Crawford. Films like Bringing up Baby....The Philadelphia Story...Adams Rib...The African Queen and The Lion in Winter ensure she is better remembered than Crawford in her bad melodramas. Also I call bullshit on the idea that Hepburn was loved because she was high class...on the contrary she was hated for years by audiences and critics alike...she worked at her image and her acting...and became a treasure. You are full of horseshit.

"...on the contrary she was hated for years by audiences and critics alike..."

You were just saying critics raved about her. Which one is it?

R50 I meant critics today. ..I was talking about legacies love!

"she worked at her image and her acting...and became a treasure."

Became a treasure? LOL.

Not her best, but certainly her most memorable: JOHNNY GUITAR (54).

R53 That was Joan at her peak eyebrow stage.

I love This Woman is Dangerous.

"I brought the plasma"

She was so good when we saw her on Broadway in Phantom of the Opera.

I agree r56. Well, except for when her mask got pulled off. That made me throw up a little in my mouth.

She was godawful! I'm sorry but no. She's like Marilyn Monroe, great camp value but I couldn't sit through one of their movies now.

The Women hand's down.

Was Crawford ever able to do comedy?

She's great fun in an early and mostly forgotten MGM musical extravaganza called Dancing Lady.

Her costar Clark Gable is at his hottest (there's a sexy scene of them working out together in a gym) and, of course, the finale number where she partners with Fred Astaire (in this film debut!), singing and dancing to Heigh Ho! The Gang's All Here! Her other costars include husband to be Franchot Tone, Nelson Eddy, Robert Benchley, Winnie Lightner and The Three Stooges! I think it's as good as the Warner Bros Busby Berkeley musicals of the same era.

In this film she's asked to do it all: tragedy, comedy, singing, dancing.....and comes through!

The Women is one of the greatest film comedies of all time so. yes, I excelled at comedy, r60.

Joan's got a feelin'.........

Watching Joan tap dance in r63, one understands why it was called hoofin'.

I remember when That's Entertainment first came out, a friend referred to that number as Joan's "turkey dance".

To be fair to Ruby r64, she started out when the taps were made of wood and you had to clomp to get the sound. By the time she did Nanette, she was much lighter of foot with metal taps.

Davis a one-trick pony, R45? Cabin in the Cotton, Of Human Bondage, Marked Woman, Jezebel, Juarez, Elizabeth & Essex, The Old Maid, The Letter, The Little Foxes, Now Voyager, All About Eve, The Catered Affair, Baby Jane, Charlotte, The Nanny, Strangers, White Mama, Right of Way, Whales of August...

[quote]If that's true then why does every gay man love her?

Bless your heart.

Humoresuqe, the women, Mildred pierce etc etc etc.

People sure like to dump on Crawford a lot. But I say she is the one who truly won. She got to be a movie star for nearly 50 years. She won a best actress Oscar at a time everyone thought she was done. She was stunningly beautiful. She got to fuck whoever she wanted. She made lots of money. She may not have been the best actress ever. But Crawford definitely had real talent or Hollywood wouldn't have continued to give her the opportunities and chances she got. And at such a high level where the stakes are so high. And she continues to be discussed nearly 41 years after her death. Not to many actresses from her era are being discussed today at the rate Crawford is. Not to mention all of the other ways people keep Crawford's image alive today. If you ask me I say Crawford truly won at life. She had her problems who dosent? But she will go down in history as the ultimate movie star.

The Ultimate!

AMEN R69.

[quote] Barbara Stanwyck is likable [R38] and I do enjoy her films - yet she has never astounded me as an actress at all.

The two she most blew me away are two you don't mention: The Bitter Tea of General Yen and Ball of Fire.

And Lassie, R71.

STRAIT-JACKET. And I’m not kidding.

I think Joan Crawford was an amazing movie star and as an actress she had some hits and misses like all actresses. That all being said, what really annoys me is that for a lot of gay men of a certain age they can't seem to separate Joan Crawford the person/actress/celebrity/movie star from Joan Crawford in Mommie Dearest.

Mommie Dearest, is but one person's account of Joan Crawford. In the real world you can't control how you come across to other people which means everyone is going to have a different idea of who you are as a person. For all I know Christina may have been spot on in her description of Joan, but you know what there are those of you who think people are just wonderful darlings while other think they're Satan incarnate. That's just the way it works.

I get so tired of these threads that all devolve into comments about the men, the booze, and her treatment of Christina and Christopher. Let's talk about Joan Crawford, flaws and all. Let's leave the movie to a thread about the movie.

I would even love the "Mommie Dearest" Joan, R75. She was gorgeous, rich, famous, bitchy and a riot. What is not to love??? As long as I were an adult verses a child who could be tortured by her drunken wrath - sign me up!

I sometimes imagine [italic]The Joan Crawford Cooking School[/italic] on Food Network.

Exactly R75.

[quote]I sometimes imagine The Joan Crawford Cooking School on Food Network.

Absolutely terrifying.

"Sudden Fear" succeeds because of Joan and director David Miller. It is excellent entertainment. Joan is fantastic and plays it perfectly.

I thought she was genuinely good in A Woman's Face. She actually gave a nuanced and sympathetic performance.

Slapping the shit out of Christina!

Joan always took time out in her world-wide travels to share food preparation and fashion tips with the locals.

How did she start her career as dancer? She's as graceful as a sack of potatoes.

She did a swell Charleston r84.

Female On The Beach, divine camp.

Agree, R81. Cukor also directed The Women. He was damn good. The original Face was Swedish, with a very young Ingrid Bergman, who a few years later would win an Oscar for Gaslight, directed by--Cukor.

That Female on the Beach thought she was the Queen Bee of all The Women. People used to say, This Woman is Dangerous and will go Berserk When Ladies Meet.

Joan was briefly a showgirl on Broadway but never a professional dancer.

But she was the quintessential flapper, dancing the Charleston and Black Bottom all night at the Hollywood clubs and getting noticed and photographed.

Hepburn's letter to Crawford's daughter Cindy, who wanted info for HER book. It includes what she thought of Crawford as an actress, or what she was willing to say to her daughter:

I think she was phoney. Evenue her friend Stanwyck was appalled by her behaviour at times...and how much of a liar she was. Just listen to the Shirley Eader tapes on YouTube they are goldust

Kate was clearly being polite in that letter to Joan's daughter.

While Kate and Joan may not have known each other well, she must have had strong opinions about Joan, personally and professionally. Kate's opinions on actresses as wives and mothers was well-documented. I imagine Kate was fascinated and regaled by Cukor's stories about working with Joan.

R92 Barbara Stanwick wrote Cathy a similar note...it's in the Mommies Dearest thread. Seems like Cathy was eager to counteract the damage done by christina's book.

Kate was still scared of Joan. Even a dead Joan.

And she never wrote an acceptable manuscript, R93.

I love you, r25

THE WOMEN, GRAND HOTEL, and RAIN are all marvelous performances. She was acting still. Plus she was a star. She stopped acting of a sort pretty early in her career, alas. And was always being just a star. It got in the way of her talent. Which those early films show us she really had. THE WOMEN is especially great. It's a delight. Funny, stylized, she has heart somehow, and tremendous likability. And she looks magnificent.

[quote]But she was the quintessential flapper, dancing the Charleston and Black Bottom all night at the Hollywood clubs and getting noticed and photographed.

And getting on her knees quite a bit too, I imagine.

the one with jeff chandler where one minute he was eating her out

and the next he was trying to murder her.

shadows for days on the old divine bitch's face!

Pretending to be human.

Yes, she's quite electrifying in STRAIT-JACKET. Really. Don't discount it.

[quote]THE WOMEN is especially great. It's a delight. Funny, stylized, she has heart somehow, and tremendous likability. And she looks magnificent.

I remember seeing The Women for the first time and being struck by how OLD Crawford looked. She seemed at least ten years too old to play the young shopgirl.

Ah, THE WOMEN, almost five years ago now since I saw it. She suits the role really. I think that's why she's successful in it. The comparisons between her and Shearer's offscreen career circumstances and their roles are obvious but have to be restated. The tension between them should be palpable -- but it isn't -- good ol' Joan simply wipes the screen with her. Probably her most successful performance at MGM.

Crawford would've been nearing forty by that time, and kinda looking it. It was funny how she seemed to age. From then and onwards until BABY JANE, she never actually seemed to look older; simply harder and more masculine. The jawline stayed firm and her brow unwrinkled, even if by the time she was starring with Jeff Chandler she was almost the butcher looking of the two. In THE WOMAN she looks good. Not old, neccessarily, just *hard*. I think around '39 is where she changes from being conventionally beautiful to sort of handsome.

But it's one take on the character. As opposed to Joan Collins' younger, prettier, frothier Crystal. Crawford would've made mincemeat of that Crystal if she ever thought of advising Stephen what perfume to buy.

Joan emoting in Berserk! Despite being a campy movie at the tail-end of her career the film was quite interesting and well done in its own way.

British sex bomb Diana Dors (far right) had a supporting role in Berserk.

I thought Joan was really beautiful in Humoresuqe. I don't know if it was her hair. The clothes, or what. But I thought that was one of the last times she was really attractive on screen. Before she turned into this hard steel looking woman.

Joan didn't go the TV Movie of the Week route that some of her contemporaries did.

R90 Crawford and Hepburn worked at the same studio for years. How did they not know each other that well? I find that rather interesting. I was under the impression that most of the stars at these studios had pretty good relationships with each other over the years. And that they saw each other pretty regularly around the studio lot. And out on the town and at various industry events. As well as intimate gatherings at each others homes. I'm kinda surprised by what Hepburn said.

Snobby, WASP Kate would have regarded Joan as a Deplorable, whorish Texas trash. And shw would have made sure they didn't cross paths on the MGM lot.

Actually, Crawford was on her way out of MGM in 1940 when Hepburn arrived to film The Philadelphia Story. Joan stuck around for a couple more years but spent most of them on suspension for turning down roles she felt were beneath her. Her only 2 MGM successes 1940-43 were Strange Cargo and A Woman's Face, neither one setting the box office afire. Most of her time in those years was devoted to adopting Christina and Christopher. So she didn't spend a lot of time with Hepburn having tea on the back lot.

Funny to compare Joan the owner of a circus in Berserk (1967), with Stanwyck the owner of a carnival in Roustabout (1964).

Stanwyck is all jeans and boots and ready for rough stuff. Crawford is all dolled up walking through the manure - dressed like she was going to the Queen's coronation.

I second r11

[quote]What was Joan Crawford's best performance?

Death was my favorite.

"....even if by the time she was starring with Jeff Chandler she was almost the butcher looking of the two"

Not really r103. Joan could carry off polka dots. Jeff.......not so much.

I've only seen The Women, Baby Jane, and a big chunk of Johnny Guitar.

Any other Crawford movies I shouldn't miss? Not terribly interested in her horror years, though I'd consider one for kicks.

I won't comment because performers in mainstream movies were only allowed to do things their director, editor, costumier, maquilleur permitted.

However I did like the hardworking, self-reliant character in 'Mildred Pierce'.

r115, why don't you just read the thread?

Oh yeah, I've seen Mildred Pierce too.

R117 The thread talks about her best performance, but you can have fun, enjoyable films without best performances.

“Love on the Run”she tries comedy with Gable and Franchot Tone. Tries...

Yes, R101, there are a few scenes where she's very natural and touching. Diane Baker does the commentary on the DVD.

Just saw Queen Bee again, and that character is one imperious, self-infatuated, manipulative piece of work. There's a bit of dialogue about how she never felt accepted by the Southern family she married into. I wonder how much JC thought of her own background when making that. Ranald McDougall wrote and directed, and he had done the screenplay for Mildred Pierce.

Or how much she thought of her own background when Veda questions who her "people" were.......

R115:

Harriet Craig (1950) is quite good. And Crawford admitted she was similar to control freak Harriet.

Rain (1932) and Strange Cargo (1940) are worth a look.

Susan and God

Some reviews of her campiest films.

The ultimate movie star. I really like that documentary. They need to put it out on DVD. Or is it available online to watch? Haven't seen it in years. It used to be on YouTube for free.

Trog most definitely. Okay, Joan is campy, shameless fun but it's really for hot stud John Hamill who looks smokin' in the opening sequence where he strips down in a cave. Unfortunately, that clip isn't available but this one is.

Wonder why she wasn’t nominated for Humoresque?

R127 He IS cute and sexy. I'd sit at his bedside all night long!

r126, which documentary are you referring to?

R131 it's called Joan Crawford the ultimate movie star. That's the name of the documentary.

R107 , no she went to play a mid 20's Replacement for her daughter on A daytime soap to a recluse.

Which is better ? TOOTS.

Joan....who ?????

Another vote for Humoresque.

Other standouts include A Woman's Face, Harriet Craig, and Autumn Leaves.

I agree with R47--Stanwyck was a great actress. I love Crawford too but R45, she was *not* more versatile than Stanwyck. Crawford couldn't do comedy but Stanwyck excelled in it (see: The Lady Eve, Ball of Fire).

I think Daisy Kenyon is a really good film, and Joan is at her best and even approaches natural at some points. Mildred Pierce is the best of Joan doing what Joan did -- she's mannered and always "acting" but it's really compelling. She makes you want to watch her and it's kinda thrilling. Her performance in The Women is her most openly sly and she seems to be having fun with it, which is not a quality you see in a lot of Crawford performances. She's great at being hard and she's beautiful when she's suffering, but you don't see her do much humor or self-awareness, so that makes The Women special.

I love her '50s movies -- Female on the Beach, Johnny Guitar, The Best of Everything and Autumn Leaves, and Torch Song and Queen Bee were fun, too.

Love Daisy Kenyon. Anyone else a fan of the composer David Raksin? I just read a bio of Dana Andrews, a very thoughtful guy. Big liberal (from a conservative Texas family), he donated to the Black Panthers!

R83, I never realized Joan was a humanitarian like me!

But how did she compare to ME r122?

Barbara Stanwyck seemed....more natural, believeable. With Joan, it was always acting. Like, Click click click click.... What do you say, Kate Hepburn?

Oh.....piffle, r124.

R115, for Joan Crawford's romantic films, I recommend Sadie McKee and especially the pre-code Possessed (the 1931 film. not the 1947 Crawford film with the same title).

For noir, check out Sudden Fear and Flaming Road.

Crawford is excellent in all of these.

Thanks for your suggestions!

[quote] With Joan, it was always acting. Like, Click click click click....

And yet, the Academy does seem to love that......

For R115, who wanted to see Joan Crawford do comedy. She's a lot of fun doing this 1-minute cameo in It's a Great Feeling.

I love that scene R146. She also look great.

I guess she, Bette Davis, Katharine Hepburn, Barbara Stanwyck... were the first "stars" to age onscreen.

R146 I've seen that! Love that bit.

And ME, r139!

R146, I get a kick out of that. Think that's the first color film she was in. Her self-spoof in that, while presumably not written by her, is interesting. I love her, but she is usually so earnest and a bit humorless. The fact that Carson had been in MP with her and Morgan was later to be in the rather bad This Woman Is Dangerous reminds that studios were stock companies. Gone are the days.

R143, you probably know that Sadie McKee is excerpted in WHTBJ. I also like Sudden Fear. There's a bit near the end where she is alone and going through a lot of business in advance of faking an injury, it's rather complex and those fingers are really nimble!

No one has mentioned my brilliant work in "The Caretakers"?

Philistines.

You certainly were brilliant in getting my scenes cut!

R152 The Caretakers. Joan worked in a mental hospital.

My favorite scene in The Best of Everything is where Hope Lange puts Krazy Glue on Joan's phone.

Go get me a Pepsi Miss Russell.

I am a huge fan and have seen all her films but the three I think of as Joan at her Joaniest are Sudden Fear, Queen Bee and Strait Jacket. I never tire of those.

R156 she could have very easily been a Fashion model too. She was strikingly beautiful, had a tight fit body. With a really nice figure. And she wore clothes very well. Crawford was truly a star. Hollywood was the only place for her.

Torch Song is pretty Joany!

Crawford was once strikingly beautiful - something that you could never honestly say about Hepburn, Davis, Shearer, Stanwyck and most of her other contemporaries.. They were.......OK, pretty, not bad.....but never great beauties like Joan. She was stunning in her prime and had the discipline to stay almost equally stunning decades past that.

All of Joan's 50s campfests like Queen Bee, etc. are great fun to watch, very entertaining.

Joan Crawford: THAT'S Entertainment!

For a mannered, limited actress, I've sure enjoyed a slw of her movies over and over.

Sudden Fear

Strange Cargo

Today We Live

Dance Fools, Dance (Early Joaniest!)

Chained

A Woman's Face

Above Suspicion (Joan's last under her MGM contract and very enjoyable!)

All are great fun, and you will appreciate what she does.

"Crawford was once strikingly beautiful"

Thanks to plastic surgery (nose) and LOTS of make-up.

Whatever she did or did not have done, it worked:

Trog

WHICH ONE'S THE BEAST?

R154, not quite. The enormous Crawford eyes-don't-belong-on-her-face-look was because of plastic surgery.

Bitch was striking af.

I find it hard to believe that there was extensive plastic surgery back when Joan was starting out. I'll give you the nose, but eyes?

IF THE NOSE IS TOO SMALL the eyes look too big, dummy R169.

Fuck you! You can lick Joan's pussy.

1920's Joan and Joan from the mid-1930' s onward look like two different people. She looked like Gloria Swanson in her earlier films but then her features started to get really harsh and she got hagger with each passing year.

By 1939 (when the dreadful Ice Follies was filmed) her once ethereal beauty was already gone.

You may not like how her looks progressed and changed over her decades in show business but I can remember back in the 1960s reading articles that actually lauded the fact that Joan's beauty continued to evolve with each passing trend and credited it to her longevity.

Joan had a ridiculously perfect body for DECADES longer than any woman had a right to (then and now). She was religious with her daily exercise (if not at socially drinking - THAT she mastered professionally/daily...). Her face was flawless and her body even more so. The golden age of Hollywood showcased a few beauties, but none were better than Joan (many were equal in their youth if not when they aged..). She was a fine actress - never the best and never even close to the worst either.

For someone who drinked and smoked. Joan really did look good her entire life.

Supposedly Joan had the buckle procedure done which would have had a dramatic effect on her face.

"Joan had a ridiculously perfect body for DECADES longer than any woman had a right to"

Yeah, 1930-mid 1950s. That's 25 years. She lost it when she turned 50, like everybody else in show biz or real life.

Shut your mouth r178! This is Joan at about 60, still with a great figure. You don't even see many 60 year-old women today with a figure this good.

"[She] was striking af."

I'll say.

R178 - please show us grandmas at 55/60 yoa who wear a size 2/3/4 and have Joan's toned body and we will talk. It RARELY happens - even in show biz.. Of course there are those exceptions that you can count on one hand - but they are RARE.

Stanwyck made so many movies, not all of them memorable. But her performance is usually better than the material. Watch THE GREAT MAN'S LADY, REMEMBER THE NIGHT & MY REPUTATION for strong Stanwyck performances. A lot of her early films show her inexperience and Jodie Foster like woodeness. Buy the time she made STELLA DALLAS, she had evolved.

Stanwyck was the rare exception of someone who got better-looking as she got older. As a young woman she was rather plain-looking, but as a mature woman with the white hair she was striking.

Fuck you r184. Mr. Ziegfeld didn't think me "rather plain-looking".

The Stanwyck - Foster comparisons are very apt.

Stanwyck was lovely and accomplished, but never a stunner like Joan. Garbo, Bergman, etc. were striking for sure. Again, Joan was by current beauty standards the most beautiful in her youth.

Joan was a stunner. PERIOD!

I think Stanwyck was just about the most accomplished actress ever. My favorite. She could do it all with a minimal of mannerisms. Yet I can say she wasn't as gorgeous as Crawford nor did she have Crawford's star power.

When Joan was in her prime she was stunning and she was every photographer's dream.

She’s looking kind of Grey Gardens in that pic^

When she was very young lighter hair suited her.

In her prime, few women could even contemplate looking as gorgeous as Joan. Why do you think that Bob Hope and a plethora of others continued to mention her constantly as a sex symbol well into her late 50's? She is iconic.

Her pictures of when she was young are just fascinating to look at. Her angles and build(total lack of fat but definitely not bony) really are a photographer's dream.

Contemporary critical evaluation and appreciation of Joan's work--and mastery of life in general in many areas--continues to evolve.

Read this article at the link.

My favorite Joan picture. Timeless.

Also this Gary Giddins review of a JC box set

I think it was that sex video she made around 1925. It was so good that Louis B Mayer paid a fortune for it so that it could be destroyed and save her career.

Yep if Joan was around now and 5'11 she would rule the runways and be on the covers of all fashion magazines, her eyes and jawline just divine!

"Sudden Fear" Oh my gawd, when she hears the REVELATION on the dictaphone and ACTS HER FACE OFF in stunned horror, wearing a negligee made of pussy bows, I simply die.

"Sudden Fear" has credits for both GOWNS and LINGERIE. What other film has a lingerie credit? Come on!

r187, I believe it was Capra who said that Stanwyck had "a stern beauty".

O.K. Joan, in this scene I want you to express fear. Fear that comes on to you...suddenly. Pretend you just saw wardrobe bringing you your negligee on a wire hanger. That's IT!

Then: actresses expressed fear and anxiety by pressing hands to temple.

Now: actresses express fear and anxiety by vomiting.

It would have been great if Tina had flown to NY to see Joan before her death. She could have paid a visit, slapped the living Shit out of her, and flushed her pain meds down the toilet, and flown home. On her way out perhaps put all of Joan’s clothes on wire hangers. So what? She was too ill to fight back.

She would have found some way to beat Tina's ass.

Joan had no pain meds, r204. She didn’t take medicine, especially at the end. She was a practicing Christian Scientist.

She wanted to feel that pain.

Hello r206. Please check your source...I read that an empty pill bottle was found on her nightstand.

R195 and R197, thanks for those great articles. The first one mentions, as did someone earlier here, how good she be with complex "business," as at the end of "Sudden Fear. "

"Complex business" is what we ladies of the theater called blocking.

Would "blocking" be used to describe all that stuff in "Sudden Fear "--in one take, opens drawer, takes out key, puts key in glove, puts glove in pocket, unsnaps garter, rolls down stocking, opens bottle of blush, dabs blush on ankle, closes bottle, puts back in drawer, rolls up stocking, snaps garter shut, etc, etc? And FAST.

I believe that would be "business" r211.

But not LADY business

[quote] R40 I can honestly say that I have never seen a Crawford performance that I was bowled over by, or that felt believable. Even in MP she is slightly robotic. JC is a museum piece remembered as a campy mother from Hell not as an actress of note.

Yeah. She was an imposing image, and a style icon, and very striking, even beautiful, in a kind of inhuman, androgynous, steely way...but she really wasn't an [italic] actress. [/italic]

The thing is, she meant something to women who desired strength at that time. Then as she aged, she just turned into a weird charicature of strength. Queen Bitch.

And re: her image, even that had a lot to do with how she was packaged. She looked great, but it certainly wasn't all her. Even early on.

Thank you, Bette Davis.

I am fond of Mannequin where Joan played one of her shopgirls made good.

[quote]And re: her image, even that had a lot to do with how she was packaged. She looked great, but it certainly wasn't all her. Even early on.

True of every actress/actor before or since.

Don’t know whether it’s called “business” or “blocking,” but one bit of truth from FEUD was that Bette stayed up for hours trying to duplicate Joan’s first HUSH HUSH scene and couldn’t do it. It was her exiting the cab, paying the driver and getting her bags, and Joan did it all in one take. Unlike in FEUD, Crawford never found out. If she had, she might have lasted longer or even completed the film.

Blocking is where an actor has to be in a scene, business is an activity an actor does during a scene.

R216 If you don't mark who you're responding to, no one knows what point you're addressing. You may as well be nattering on to yourself.

A word to the wise...

R163 is stupid. Even in the 1920's her looks changed dramatically from film to film, as she and the make up men were still experimenting. The only work Joan ever had, at least early on, was in 1932 or early 33 when she got a new set of teeth, which did change the shape of her mouth and make the top lip more prominent. So, with the newly capped teeth, she had arrived at the gorgeous face she would have until the 1940's, when her looks began to harden. She always had enormous eyes which were certainly not made to look larger with a nose job. The eyes lamentably became less and less of a focal point as her brows became heavier and heavier.

If you look at the linked site, check out the 1930-1932 galleries, then look at 1933-1934. You'll see what I mean about the chompers and the lips.

Ava Gardner on left, ready to take over the exiting Joan's MGM dressing room...

Oh, speaking of that, this is well worth posting. I remember it from some other thread:

"Humoresque" - it's all in her facial expressions and micro-expressions. It's a masterpiece because her dialogue is sparse. It's an intensely beautiful film. She was robbed of an Oscar for that.

[quote]"Humoresque" ...She was robbed of an Oscar for that.

Oh please. She's her usual affected self.

That's your opinion, you anonymous little mouse.

R227 What do you think of her acting HERE??

Oddly, Joan was not even nominated for "Humoresque", which I believe is her highest rated film according to IMDb at least. She is magnificent in it.

Humoresque is the iconic "Joan Crawford look" that everyone thinks of when they think of Joan Crawford.

Those MGM dressing room assignments were all replaced with Lana Turner, Greer Garson, Hedy Lamarr, Judy Garland and Ava Gardner within a few years.

When she talks about the cats and lilies being in bloom.

Pussy and lilies... Hmm.

Well, Joan, did occasionally invite over some, eh... "female friends" for some brisk "tennis".

And her scenes with Mercedes McCambridge in JOHNNY GUITAR are just a powder keg.

[quote]In a 1938 letter to Gerald Murphy, F. Scott Fitzgerald memorably described the difficulty of writing for her: "She can't change her motions in the middle of a scene without going through a sort of Jekyll and Hyde contortion of the face, so that when one wants to indicate that she is going from joy to sorrow, one must cut away and then cut back. Also, you can never give her such a stage direction as 'telling a lie,' because if you did, she would practically give a representation of Benedict Arnold selling West Point to the British."

I love this bit from R197's linked article.

You just know Joan ate a lot of pussy.

[quote]Joan had no pain meds, [R204]. She didn’t take medicine, especially at the end. She was a practicing Christian Scientist.

Oh, my sides! Joan was a DRUNK! She didn't need pills with all that vodka.

R224: You can see that A used to be Jean Harlow's. Can anyone make out the name that used to be next to C?

R236, do your research. She gave up booze the last year of her life after falling and blacking out. It’s all well-documented.

R230 that's absolutely right. Whenever I think of Crawford I always think of her as well done up. Wealthy and diva like. Which is why Humoresuqe is one of my favorite Joan films. It's Joan Crawford at her very best. In all of of Joan Crawford glory.

OMG r237, you're right! I've seen that photo of the dressing room assignments so many times and yet never noticed the faded shadows of the letters that spelled JEAN HARLOW.

Who in the world could have inhabited the C apartment?? Marie Dressler is one guess but wasn't she dead by the time Luise Rainer came to stardom?

My guess is Marion Davies, R237/R240. Her star at MGM had dimmed when she finally made her last film there (and anywhere else), Ever Since Eve ("A Gay Romantic Laugh Hit") and left the studio in 1937. Also it fits the missing spaces in the photo of the dressing room assignments.

[quote]R236 Oh, my sides! Joan was a DRUNK! She didn't need pills with [bold] all that vodka. [/bold]

100 proof, no less. Which she carried everywhere in flasks with cloth covers that matched her coats.

If you know any other hardcore alcoholics, yourself, this might make a nice gift: Should scare them off the sauce pronto!

Re: R242

Maybe this will work? (Or it's a bad link)

Amazon Prime has Johnny Guitar. I’m watching as I type.

[quote]R241 My guess is Marion Davies, [R237]

I know at one point Marion Davies had her own bungalow (which was really a HOUSE) as her dressing room, provided by her sugar daddy. It had to be broken into sections and towed across town when she switched studios. After MGM and Warner Bros., it was finally dragged to Beverly Hills (?)

What magazine is that at R241? Is that some kind of movie magazine from back in the 30s that covered film stars? I'm curious.

Where did Eleanor Powell put on her tap shoes?

R237 Signe Hasso?

I'm so glad that many contributors admire "Strait-Jacket," one of Joan's most powerful and interesting performances. Silly queens scream and call it camp; Joan took it completely seriously and gave it her best. This is what made her a star.

The later version of "Possessed" may be Joan's single finest performance. Robert Osborne used to say that, and I think he's right.

I think Joan Crawford just loved the atmosphere of Hollywood and show business. And wanted to hold on as long as she possibly could. Just like everyone else. Especially as they get older. And Crawford did for nearly 50 years. She lasted longer than most and longer than expected.

[quote]She lasted longer than most and longer than expected.

She was basically the Madonna of her day.

[quote]R249 I'm so glad that many contributors admire "Strait-Jacket," one of Joan's most powerful and interesting performances.

OMG...no one believes Crawford gave a powerful or interesting performance [italic]in her life![/italic]

When Pauline Kael reviewed MOMMIE DEAREST, of the scene where you see Dunaway rehearsing MILDRED PIRCE, she wrote, "You're conscious of a huge difference; here is a real actress in the part."

Joan's UTTERLY powerful [italic]Strait Jacket[/i] performance:

Joan Crawford 3 years before she died.

She’s really good in Baby Jane but no one noticies cause Miss Davis devours everything in her path.

Joan had more fight in her than any actor or actress that I can recollect. She was beautiful and she was a good actress (if not a "great" one). She leaves a legacy that few can claim. Many of the critically acclaimed actresses of her various working decades have not stood up to the test of time in the opinion of most modern critics. Joan was as good as the rest but front and foremost - she was a survivor. I can not think of a better role model for today's aspiring actors than Joan. She MADE her career happen and thank God for that.. AND she looked amazing doing it.

R252 Pauline Kael was always a self righteous, know-it-all cunt who simply loved to see her name in print.

R255 Although Davis had the showier part, Joan was rightly referred to as the eye of the hurricane in Baby Jane. She gave an extremely credible, restrained performance, perfect for her character.

To those who compare Joan to either Faye or Jessica - ALL THREE were/are amazing actresses. All three will go down in history for being so...nuff said.

[quote]R256 Crawford MADE her career happen and thank God for that.

oh vomit

Yes, thank [italic] GOD.... [/italic] cuz the WORLD would have just ENDED without her.

Have anothe Dubonnet.

She was the original Hacky McHackhack.

I love the following things about Joan:

She came from shit and didn't want to return to shit, so she used what God gave her to build a life.

She believed in good manners and elegance and she respected those things.

She loved being a movie star. Yeah she wanted people to respect her acting, but even through all that she never stopped being a star and giving the audience what they wanted.

She knew when to go away. She saw that picture of herself drunk and wig askew and she decided to stay at home.

Joan earned that Mildred Pierce Oscar. It may not have been her best performance but she earned it nonetheless. Beautiful women, get shit on, discounted and then discarded. Joan showed 'em all.

Stanwyck had the greatest range: she excelled at drama, film noir, comedy, screwball, western, tv, you name it. She was the best for my money.

Pretending to be a good mother.

Bette Davis said, "I wouldn't even mind her personality if only she could [italic] ACT." [/italic]

R223, I think that's Reunion in France.

R262, yes. I sometimes think, though, that in the drama genre Davis may have had more range--Charlotte Vale to Baby Jane. But not great in comedy.

I agree with the poster that her best performance was accepting the Oscar for Mildred Pierce in bed. Did she not know if she would come in 1st or 2nd? Really what's the story? Was she hung over? Was she trying to be humble.? Did she think she was going to lose so she didn't show up and pretended that she was sick? And I wonder how she got so much publicity about it. Who took her picture in bed? The lighting was fabulous.

R264, it's so FRUSTRATING when someone else is on the party line!

[quote]Did she think she was going to lose so she didn't show up and pretended that she was sick?

THIS.

She couldn't bear being seen that night with egg on her face if she lost.

Like a lot of bullies, she was a coward underneath it all; that's why she beat up kids instead of adults.

I do love this pic of Sophia Loren looking terrified of Crawforded when she DID show up:

Loren ignoring Crawford.

Crawford pissed.

R266 - she knew how to work the media - something that her contemporaries were not very skilled at. One can not kick sand into the eyes who control you, but Joan was shrewd enough to know know exactly what she could get away with and did just that. The press loved her and she them. They were more than happy to change venue to do something unique for an award winner (of course they were camped out and ready). Many winners in past years did not show, but Joan was set and ready to pull the trigger at her Brentwood home - and did just that. The move was rather divine really..

I don't know what it is but every bad thing I hear about Joan makes love her more. Is there as schadenfreudesque word for that?

R246, I don't know, found it on the linked website here. Also I got my facts wrong--Davies left MGM in 1935 after Thalberg chose his wife instead over Hearst's demands that Davies be given the leads in Barretts of Wimpole Street and Marie Antoinette. So Davies last few films were at Warners.

LOVE Joan's shenanigans at the Oscars the year Bette lost for Baby Jane. Not only does Joan strut onstage to collect Anne Bancroft's Oscar (Bancroft was in a play in NY and couldn't make it) but she also poses with the other acting award winners at the photo call, as if SHE won the Oscar, all the while Bette is fuming in the audience. If anybody else had done that, you would've hated that person, but because it's Joan you kind of love her for that supreme cunt move. The above photos with Joan and Sophia Loren are also from the same night. Did Joan push her way into all the photo calls? LOL!

[quote]R271 I don't know what it is but every bad thing I hear about Joan makes love her more. Is there as schadenfreudesque word for that?

No. It just means you're a sad sociopath like she was.

Congratulations.

Sophia seems to be all eyes for Maximilian Schell in r268. And who could blame her?

And, of course, Sophia wasn't the winner that year. She was merely presenting.

Fuck off R274 - seriously, leave the guy alone. If you are not a fan, then don't read or post on this thread. Easy equation.

R274, the word is "Hassliebemachen."

R 270 But do you think she thought she was going to win?

R279 - I would say yes. That said, no one really knows outside of PricewaterhouseCoopers. But yes, I think that she was aware that she was the front runner for sure.

For me her best and most poignant performance will always be Humorseque. The tragic emotional scene were she walked into the ocean to die was both haunting and effective. A superb film. After that in terms of more towards the next film of hers I enjoyed the most rather than it just being her second best performance that would be The Damned don't die .I really enjoyed that movie although shes performed better in other movies who's stories interest me a bit less .

[R281] Sorry I meant The damned don't cry in my above post! Its kind of a camp title as is the film poster for it!

The best thing about Humorseque is from the start of the movie both Helen(Joan) and the audience knew from the start it wasn't going to have a happy ending. Helen wasn't going to get the man and it would end in tragedy.

R282, I love TDDC. She screwed Vincent Sherman, the director (who had screwed Bette Davis), and I wonder if JC had anything with hot Richard Egan or Steve Cochran. Good pacing and snappy dialogue (to Jacqueline de Wit, with a glance at her chest: "You might want to get yourself a couple of other new items, if you know what I mean. "). That scene at the start, when she can't buy a bike for the kid is very touching. The fact that she's a bit old for the part sort of underlines the character's desperation.

I like all of her major film performances but "Sudden Fear" is the most technically aware "film acting" of her career. Jack Palance, Gloria Grahame and Joan are a once-in-a-lifetime dream cast, and they are all in top form in "Sudden Fear".

[R282] Glad I'm not the only fan of The Damned don't cry! It does seem to be one of her films that gets mentioned and referenced the least .

Madonna pays homage to Joan's suicide.

Joan looking fabulous in a 1957 interview.

She was married to Franchot Tone when he was at his peak.

In other words she wins.

Check It.

She's really quite lovely and engaging in that interview with the pompous British creep at r288.

[quote]R275 Sophia seems to be all eyes for Maximilian Schell in [R268].

No, Loren's written she was scared by Crawford's energy. Rita Moreno had the same reaction when backstage with Crawford at the Oscars a year earlier. (Crawford was really amped up and drinking at those events.)

In the book [italic] Feud [/italic] is based on, Moreno shared how Crawford was the first to swoop in on her as she departed the stage from winning Best Supporting Actress for [italic] West Side Story. [/italic], almost breaking her hand shaking it. Then Crawford said, "Let me show you where the press room is, dear. There are reporters waiting for you." (Or something along those lines.) Moreno wrote, "It's not like I had a choice. Crawford would have ripped my arm from the socket had I declined." Crawford of course stuck by Moreno's side in the press room for a ton of pictures.

Moreno gives additional details about the encounter in the link:

good night darlings

When is Musto going to realize that he is utterly irrelevant?

R288 was that from when Joan was in the UK to meet QUEEN Elizabeth the second along with all of the other stars? I know that was a film set she was on but still.

[quote] R293 good night darlings

Good night, Mommie Dearest.

Keep that Pepsi bottle spiked with vodka by your bed, so you don't go through the convulsions of withdrawl (again).

There's another interview Joan did in England publicizing The Story of Esther Costello (horrible title, btw!) which is touted as her first ever on TV. This is must-see TV!!

Someone please find and post it here as I'm hopeless with linking.

r297 just cut or copy the URL and paste it in the link box below.

OK, r298. Here goes nothing!

I did it!!!

She is so warm, genuine and sincere.

[quote]Like a lot of bullies, she was a coward underneath it all; that's why she beat up kids instead of adults.

I don't know. Not too many celebrities really stood up to Crawford, and it seemed that she could give as good as she got with a lot of them. She pulled all kinds of stunts when working with Bette.

Lucille Ball was the only one that really seemed to get to her.

Well perhaps not the only one, but Ball had Crawford terrified.

Joan was such a fickle girl.......

Humoresque.

Indeed, R304

R306 that looks more like Mary Tyler Moore in that photo then it does Crawford.

Let me eat cake.......

R307, the Coca-Cola artist wasn't the best...

....

....

I love this shot.

I love this JC ad.

[quote]She gave up booze the last year of her life after falling and blacking out.

"Listen sister, you're gonna have to pry this Stoli bottle out of my cold, dead hand!" -- Joan

I never let those people get near MY eyebrows!

[quote]so she used what God gave her to build a life.

Her cunt!

[quote]She knew when to go away. She saw that picture of herself drunk and wig askew and she decided to stay at home.

She should have seen that picture called "TROG" and gone away.

Joan is really beautiful in R315's post.

In the R299 interview, Joan comes across as such a phony -- and pretty stupid.

Frankly, what she comes across........is drunk, r319. I'm sure she was just so nervous, she needed a little fortification.

R320 You just know that that young actress ended up HATING Joan once filming began, with Joan constantly trying to get between her and the camera.

"What's the address?"

"Some DARK BAR!"

Joan did a porn video that LB had destroyed?

Why am I 110% certain this is impossible.

Just found this image and thought how lovely it would be to add it to this thread!

I can't see it.

People always say Joan played the working class woman or a shop girl. But she also had plenty of movies where she played debutantes, rich girls, socialites, and the wife of wealthy men, as well as society ladies! I prefer Joan in movies where she played wealthy women or her playing poor working class women. The fancy clothes and beautiful upscale surroundings suited her much better. She was a stunner when she was well put together.

I meant over her playing poor working class women.