All That Jazz

Thanks to a video promo for it and other Fox-owned musicals on the VHS tape of [italic]My Fair Lady[/italic] making me aware it existed, it was the first R-rated movie I was ever allowed to watch. Great movie then and now, and a well-deserved Best Picture nominee.

love it.

I loved it. Saw it four times when it came out.

A fantastic film. Fosse was smart enough to drape it with dazzling sequences to not make it a self-indulgent mess about himself. Some of the sequences are stunning. I think the "On Broadway" sequence is one of the best openings of a film EVER and it really captures the spirit and magic of NYC (or what was NYC).

Roy Scheider was absolutely brilliant.

My parents were into well-rounded upbringings for me and my sisters so we went to art museums, national parks, plays -- to include Dancin'.

This film doesn’t get the attention it deserves. It’s basucally Fosse’s bio pic of the time he had a heart attack whilst in rehearsals for ‘Chicago’ in 1975 (hence the title). Ann Reinking is effectively playing herself.

My favourite scene is the Peter Allen number Reinking performs with the daughter. It’s upbeat and poignant.

I love this movie, but it works more for me as background noise rather than as a movie I sit and pay attention to for its entirety.

JESSICA!

I saw the original B'way productions of Sweet Charity and Chicago. I saw Chicago with both Gwen Verdon an Liza. His style of choreography was unmistakable. He choreographed dancers right down to their fingertips. I saw both about 10 time each. I was a kid when my father took me to Sweet Charity and convinced him at age 9 that I could handle myself in the theater district and at a play and hailing my own cab and such. I was such a pathetic little freak in my suit that cabs actually stopped for me. I did well in nice restaurants too, sitting at a table by myself, with impeccable table manners. Once I realized I could function on my own freedom was mine. I didn't need a friend or parent to go to the theater, to eat, to shop. It wasn't lonely, it was wonderful. To this day I don't like doing things with other people. I prefer my own company.

Sadly I almost never go to the theater anymore, I'm not into the crap they call most plays/musicals these days. The really good restaurants are gone for the most part, I'm not into trendy, and I hate that the theater district has been turned into Disney World. Also all the things I did as a kid were basically affordable for a child from the just slightly upper middle class. Hell, the best seats in the theaters were about 12 dollars. A cab ride across town, in traffic, was about 3 dollars and a meal, soup to nuts in a really good white tablecloth restaurant was about 10 dollars plus tip and they were huge meals including several sodas and tea at the end. Only rich kids can live that kind of life these days.

Although one of my favorite places to do to was Howard Johnson's on Tuesday night, fried clam night, and their pink peppermint ice cream for dessert. I might have been a little freak but I was a happy and content and very self confident one. I was actually small for my age and yet treated like an adult and with respect wherever I went.

Oooh, one more memory those places in the area with great hot dogs and coconut drink. I loved those if I went to a matinee and wanted a quick lunch. Sometimes I liked to go to a movie after the matinee and then dinner. On the weekends I could make a day of it. Sunday's was for Central Park, by myself of course. Not all loners become gun toting psychos, lol.

Too much Ben Vereen. It was a self indulgent mess. There's not a full great dance sequence in the whole movie other than that fly me embarrassment. The opening was good, the cute number with his girlfriend and kid gave an impromptu feel to a very styled film. I was born a few years after it was made I think (1983) an it does not live up to its hype. A dude wanted me to see it. I fucked him anyway. Roy Scheider is great though. A great bloodshot jerk, he knows himself, good portrait of a creative man, some nice flashbacks. I like it more this moment, but as a musical it bored me. Was it supposed to be a musical? I fucked him anyway. That was kind of the message, no?

R8 Perfection.

More importantly, why did moi not get a Best Actress nomination for my screen debut that same year?

Have watched it countless times. Truly genius. Warts and all. Fantastic.

R6 — that scene has made me cry so many times. Cured me of my narcissistic depression too.

I also love this movie, it should have won Best Picture.

I saw an interview with the author Anne Rice where she told a funny story about she and her husband getting into a big fight in the car on the way home from seeing All That Jazz because he hated it and she thought it was incredible.

Leland Palmer is known now as "Linda Posner."

Jesus, r16! Time is such a fucking bitch.

I believe she became a rabbi r17.

I saw it when it first came out, and didn't care for it at all. The scene that I keep thinking about, though, is when they clamped open his chest to do the open heart surgery. That is a scene that I can never get out of my head. I just now tried to watch it online, and it is not available on either Netflix or Amazon.

r17 she doesn't look that bad. She's 72.

She doesn't look bad at all. Dancer's age well. Leland wasn't a beauty at all and would not be cast in other films that portrayed her as sexy. Did she do any other films? She was very good casting for Gwen Verdon, though Fosse was careful to only show her stretching and vexing. She was no Gwen Verdon.

The Criterion Blu-ray is worth the money.

Considering Leland didn't have a lot of screen time in All That Jazz, she still gave a very effective performance, and many of her reaction shots are what I remember most from the film. She made quite an impression.

Here you go r19.......

R72 Why?

R24. Forgive my ignorance. Is it safe to download from that site?

R25 just stream it.

I loved this number. As a young gayling when I first saw the movie, those male dancers stripping down to their jockstraps got me very horny:

I jerked off to that, R28. No lie.

Jazz Hands and hats.

R29 It was one of the most erotic things I'd seen at that point in my life!

I provided the actual jazz. You're welcome.

It goes on forever, particularly in the final heart surgery sequence. I also vote for it being a self-indulgent mess, although there are parts that I like.

It's about the closest we'll ever get to an American [italic] 8 1/2 [italic].

The dancer in the brown leotard and jacket at 0:21 in the link at [r 28] is now a dresser backstage at "The Phantom of the Opera." A true gypsy and a lovely woman. I'm sure she could spill a lot of tea on Mr. Fosse...

Are the actors who played Gary and John (the two gay male dancers) still alive?

R36 According to IMDB, they are. There's no death date listed for either one of them, but IMDB isn't always up to date with the lesser known players in films.

I.M. Hobson, who later joined Ann Reinking in [italic]Annie[/italic] as Drake the butler and also played a French restaurant owner on [italic]Newhart[/italic], is in the film as one of the actors at the table read.

as we all know the reason fosse kicked the bucket @ 60, from heart disease, on a sidewalk in NYC, was because he started smoking in utero and never stopped, probably even to eat...he always had a cigarette in his hole...always...constantly....

the drugs he took also weren't too great----- neither was the booze.....so yeah, he lived a crazy insane sex filled life, but he took shit care of his meat bag and i bet he didn't wave goodbye laying on the sidewalk either..... Hey Big Smoker!!! Smoke a lifelong smoke

for me.

RIP Jazz Hands.

Great film, love it! Seen it many times, and it's always effective. Possibly the best musical drama ever made.

One thing always amused me. We all know the brilliant opening sequence of this film, the :On Broadway" audition that's filmed with such dazzle, and which starts at 1:19 here...

... Well, a few years Sylvester Stallone tried to copy it for his horrible camp classic "Stayin' Alive"!

Here, an illustration of the difference between a top filmmaker and a hack poseur like Stallone.

No Bob Fosse, no Michael Bennett, and no one to replace them. And the B'way musical is dead and gone as a result.

truer words.....^

This was the first (and so only) film I ever went to see just because of the trailer alone. And this was all it was:

R9 well then, thanks for all your feelings about Bob Fosse and All That Jazz.......

and the scene in the hospital "I think you are the most beautiful thing in the world, and I love you" And then he kisses her

MASTERPIECE!

Burning Questions I have always had about this film (I literally must have watched this movie over 200 times since it came out in 1979) 1) Does anyone know why Erzsebet Foldi (Michelle Gideon) never did another film after this one?? Or even what happened to her??? Such a talented kid. 2) Did Billy Joel ever get paid for his contribution to the music used in the fantastic final sequence ?? I have never understood why no one has ever mentioned it.

Holy shit I had no idea it was Joel. THANKS R47---This is one of my favorite films! Foldi was great!!

This is for you in case you havent seen it

Absolutely OP. First real 'art film' I ever saw as a kid. I thought it was transfixing. And the 'Airotica' number made me me feel tingly 'down there', and not because of the girls. Wonderful film.

i really miss Roy. He was such a great actor......marathon man great.

Didn’t Foldi become a Bible thumper?

The 'Everything Old Is New Again' dance number is one of the most affecting film scenes ever. Why? What is the strange magic that animates this sequence? Is it the song by Peter Allen, the chemistry of Reinking and the little girl, Roy Scheider's face? I can't figure it out, but I'm entranced every time I watch it.

The opening:

More:

Leland in Your Own Thing. The cast included Marcia (it's Mar-SEE-uh NOT Marsha!!!) Rodd.

I saw the film in its original release at the beautiful theater on 7th Avenue that got murdered to make the Times Square Visitor's Center. The film now has history and we've thought about it for years. Aging with this film helps to understand it, too. When I first saw it, I was one of those young hopeful dancers depicted in the opening. Now I'm older than Fosse was when he died. This film can be understood many, many different ways.

But in 1979, the film was thrilling and confusing and engrossing and at times, off-putting. I had seen CHICAGO with its original cast, so it was easy to identify all those bits and pieces that made it into ALL THAT JAZZ. Including the set design. Before you got to the theater, the title of the film, the same title as the opening song of CHICAGO, started the questioning about what we are seeing and what Fosse was trying to say. AIR-OTICA was obviously Fosse's use of sex and sensuality to save PIPPIN, a show that offers very little without Fosse's sex and sensuality. His ex-wife and daughter were... his ex-wife and daughter. It is all so auto-biographical, but in 1979, it was clearly handed to us as if it was a work of fiction, which always has roots in real life. Taken from his life, but not his life. Whatever. I don't think that marketing served the film well at the time. What you saw on film made a lie of the marketing and it has taken a lot of time to sort that out. It is now accepted to be an allegory for a man who was both gifted and flawed, but always driven. But when it was new... who could tell?

The end of the film was shocking, as Fosse wasn't dead at the time, making this a very strong blow for the audience to absorb. They zipped the body bag and then... Ethel Merman. Ethel coming out of the blue, blasting "There's No Business Like Show Business!" was the master stroke that tied it all together. Fosse dragged us to a place of ambiguity and pain and creativity and loss and genius and. then Ethel mops up with the illusion we love to believe and the possibility (probability?) that Fosse really believed it,too.

Without Ethel's clarion voice and Berlin's iconic anthem slyly appended to the end of the film, both instantly recognizable and dripping with the magic of show business (and both still living in NYC at the time,) "All That Jazz" would be a much lesser film. The audience was silent and when Ethel started singing, huge surprise was registered all through the house. It was thrilling. But, gah... it takes two hours to get to that thrill ride of a moment. Or it did then. I suspect for a young person encountering this film for the first time, that moment is lost now, watching it at home, on TV, never having heard of Irving Berlin.

First of all the obvious; I think its Fosse's amazingly inventive yet simple and appropriate choreography combined with the supernatural perfection of Renking and those limbs plus that song and the naturalness of the whole deal. It actually COULD have been a number whipped up for such an occasion by these two. Yet the genius behind is definitely Fosse and thus makes it much more. That, and the realness of his face as you said.He was just letting it wash over him. Where,in the rest of the film he's a tidal wave.

But I think what really takes it over the edge to explain what youre feeling could be how its used in the movie- knowing that as an audience you and you alone are aware this simple moment would actually be one of the last full experiences of joy he'd have left in his short life. And a rare occasion when those he loved were returning to him the love he shared with the world: dance. A full circle moment. And that these women would remain as his legacy! So to see that so beautifully given back to him when everything else was about to be taken was an emotional wallop. And so perfectly placed;the calm before the storm when all he loved,including his own life was still before him. It adds a poignancy to what seems a somewhat lighthearted moment. One of the great dance numbers ever incorporated into a story. Thanks for that R52

the above was for R52 in response to Everything Old dance number

I had forgotten how sexy Roy Scheder was. Damn. I was very very young when he was his peak, and I don't think I could appreciate someone who was sexy versus classically handsome. I think we start to appreciate less mainstream looks as we get older.

[quote] No Bob Fosse, no Michael Bennett, and no one to replace them. And the B'way musical is dead and gone as a result.

Gay or not gay, Rob Marshall is no substitute. Not by a long shot.

R52/R53: Wow, what a difference. Sort of. The only good thing about the latter is that Travolta got buff for the part. Other than that, I'm surprised Fosse didn't sue; I guess he was too busy with [italic]Star 80[/italic] to notice or care. [italic]Staying Alive[/italic] is a truly terrible movie (funny how many of Paramount's biggest hits of the era had inferior flop sequels), but its badness not only serves to remind you how much better [italic]All That Jazz[/italic] is as a film, but how much better [italic]Saturday Night Fever[/italic] is, too.

I was a senior in high school when this came out. I saw the original cast of CHICAGO when the show was in Los Angeles so I picked up all those references in the film. I loved ALL THAT JAZZ. Fosse was a one of a kind.......I got to know Ralph Burns when I moved back to LA in the early 90's and he said that film really portrayed who Fosse was.....the whole blend of the internal dialogue with the angel of death that leads up to the finale and the choreography blew my mind--the AIR ROTICA scene was pretty racy for the time. Between the bathhouse scene in THE ROSE and the male dancers in ALL THAT JAZZ, NYC gay was on the big screen in 79/80 and then CRUISING scared everyone. I had seen the original Broadway cast in DANCIN' and I think there were a few cast members from DANCIN' in the film (Ann Reinking)...Broadway lost a creative genius when Fosse died....

I've always somewhat regretted I didn't see Big Deal.....

[quote]as we all know the reason fosse kicked the bucket @ 60, from heart disease, on a sidewalk in NYC

He had a heart attack in Washington, DC, where he was on his way for the opening of the revival of "Sweet Charity." His wife, Gwen Verdon (they never divorced), was with him then.

24 years before ALL THAT JAZZ and AIR-OTICA, Bob Fosse made a show stopper out of a piece of shit song.

The ending sends chills down my spine. When Ben Vereen puts on those dark sunglasses and the shot of Vereen in between his fingers, knowing death is imminent. Plus the look on Langes face as Scheider is moving towards her.

Yeah R65. Fosse was a genius.

Besides the obvious of Fosse, Leland and Reinking, Scheider was brilliant. A favorite Scheider movie, right up there with Sorcerer.

Yes R67 a genius he was. And what a way to go; with an auto biographical musical masterpiece.

And in those terms, thats what it was: a perfect encapsulation and confession of a life.

THAT'S how you wrap it up!

It's true, "All That Jazz" is one of the great artistic swan songs, up there with Richard Strauss's "Four Last Songs".

He knew he didn't have long, and he wanted to analyze his life and turn it from chaos into art while he could, and succeeded brilliantly. One of the major talents of the 20th century, and I wish he'd made less theater and more films; theater is ephemeral and film is still with us.

Still cant believe that a male dancer and coreographer can be straight

The great unanswered question is: When would Fosse have made the film version of "Chicago," and who would have starred?

Obviously Fosse liked women R71, but I've always wondered if he was totally straight.

Did Fosse really cum in his pants while tap dancing on stage?

Did you never cum in your pants as an adolescent?

I love this movie. Have watched it many times. I would like a young Jessica Lange to escort me into the afterlife when it's my time.

Someone upthread asked about the woman who played the daughter. A while back, a poster linked footage of her dancing in a church. It appears she is a born-again Christian. Lots of twirling and arms stretched heavenwards. Praise choreography appears to be about as complex as Christian rock.

So Leland Palmer changed her name. Just as well, perhaps. If you Google Leland Palmer, dance, you'll get lots of links to Laura Palmer's Dad having a nervous breakdown on a dance floor in Twin Peaks.

Wow. Here's something from 2009 by Erszebet (now Liz) Foldi.

I may be ignorant and I might be confusing Fosse with that ugly Roy Scheider but I have an impression that this man was self-obsessed, aggressive, heterosexual, a molester who made a lot of ugly, sweaty movements which weren't much different from an aerobics class.

Perhaps you could educate me by telling which is Fosse's greatest accomplishment.

R77 Why can’t I get the idea it looks like she’s reenacting her morning shower out of my head?

One thing that has always bugged me about this movie. In the musical number Who's Sorry Now, all the woman in the chorus line have white make up on their face except one. Why is that? It's not even the first or last girl, which makes it seem all the more random and disturbing.

I believe she's black, R80. One beautiful black dancer in the line with white dancers.

R79, I've never gotten "liturgical dance." It all looks the same: a girl or woman in leotards and a skirt, swirling around to music with waving arms and hands of supplication. How many different renditions of that does the liturgy really need?

r68 Sorcerer is a great film. Scheider starred in two of the best films of the late '70s - this film and Sorcerer. He starred in some great films in the '70s - this film, Sorcerer, French Connection and, of course, Jaws. He made Jaws 2 worthwhile.

Goodness, R9, your young life seems like it was charmed!

Wow.

R83 Sorcerer is an incredible movie. Even if you know the end you’re still a nervous wreck all the way through. Don’t forget he was also in The Seven Ups, Marathon Man and Romeo is Bleeding. More great movies.

Bob Fosse was wonderful, thanks for this thread.

Couldn't have been more self-indulgent and pretentious. A musical Woody Allen.

Yet when Woody Allen actually made a musical we got [italic]Everyone Says I Love You[/italic]. This is better. Try again, R87.

No, don't try again, R87. Just go home.

Wonderful film. It really is like an American 8 1/2. A much better movie musical version of that than that piece of shit Nine.

Also, the opening sequence does a better job of turning A Chorus Line into a movie than the real movie version of A Chorus Line.

[quote]the opening sequence does a better job of turning A Chorus Line into a movie than the real movie version of A Chorus Line.

Mary Poppins and The Godfather do a better job of turning A Chorus Line into a movie than the real movie version of A Chorus Line.

It's SHOWTIME, folks!

[quote] [anti-gay hate speech redacted] does a better job of doing tangible harm to gay people than the real movie version of A Chorus Line, which, while it failed to do justice to the stage show, at least acknowledged gays' existence in a mainstream movie musical made at the nadir of AIDS paranoia.

Fixed.

R91: And [italic]Bedknobs and Broomsticks[/italic], which came out in an even more butchered reissue the same year, is better than ANY of them, and so is [italic]All That Jazz[/italic]. There, I fuckin' said it: [italic]All That Jazz[/italic] is better than [italic]The Godfather[/italic]. It's certainly a damn sight better than the third one and Erzebet Foldi was nowhere near as wooden as Sofia Coppola. Even the kids from B&B could act circles around Sofia Coppola.

I've never seen B&B; I didn't know it even existed until it became a DL thing—when, last year? I liked All That Jazz almost as much as the first two Godfathers. The three of them are in my all time top ten. G3, well, let's not speak of G3.

[quote][anti-gay hate speech redacted]

What does this mean?

Let's not forget that almost ten years later, All That Jazz worked its way into pop culture and introduced a new generation to Fosse (years before the revival of Chicago and staging of Fosse).

I really like Paula but this was the moment where everything came together for her. She was never as cool and sexy as she was here. And it's all because of Fosse.

R97 That video was an homage to that entire "Take Off With Us - Air-otica" scene in All That Jazz, right down to the pulled shades, the same sex couple, and the nervous investors. The only thing missing was my favorite guy in that scene from All That Jazz - "Smoke! Smoke!"

Notes on the "Gideon and Jagger" scene:

[quote]There are so many iconic moments in that film - the entire opening sequence for example - but the moment that hits me right in the solar plexus is this one. Seen out of context, it’s wonderful; Peter Allen’s singing, the natural camaraderie between Ann Reinking and Erzsebet Foldi and of course, the dancing. But seen as part of the whole film, it becomes almost too much for me to bear. When I first saw All That Jazz, I rewatched this one scene maybe 10 times. Since then, I have no idea how many times I’ve watched that one scene, but it must be nearing the hundreds. The thought of Joe Gideon’s girlfriend and daughter working on that routine for hours, to get it just right for the notorious perfectionist. The knowledge that even if it wasn’t perfect, he’d be bowled over regardless. The fact that Kate is so loving and caring with Michelle, and that all the basic ingredients for a happy family are here, yet Joe continues to sleep around and throw his life away. The part where Reinking plays Michelle’s stomach like a piano, glances at Joe and says “Pretty pictures.” Joe’s funky apartment, with all the theatre paraphernalia and those “whatchamacallit lights”. The part where the duo rush at Joe to kiss him. Finally, and most importantly, Joe’s face throughout. I don’t know how Roy Scheider does it. Amusement, regret, incredulity, sadness, pride - they’re all there. The killer: during the line, “And every gal only had one fellow”. His face at that point slays me. It’s a little flash of recognition, of regret and embarrassment and still you can see he’ll never change. Beautiful.

For someone who wasn't gay, he sure had a lot of gay acquaintances.

[quote]Still cant believe that a male dancer and choreographer can be straight

Statistically, it's impossible for all practitioners of a profession to be gay or straight. Just like there are gay actuaries and structural engineers, there are straight ballet dancers and choreographers. As many of 40% of male ballet dancers could be straight!

[quote]Just like there are gay actuaries and structural engineers

Do you know any?

I haven’t seen the film since I saw it at the cinema on release. And maybe, I think, on TV when it first went on there. But such a long time ago! Really need to get a hold of the DVD as all the discussion here really had got me wanting to see it again...

I remember really liking it - as opposed to LOVING it. Had a straight(!) male friend at the time who LOVED it and went back and saw it numerous times. But I never did - and not sure why? Maybe because it is so dark and essentially downbeat? I mean - scheider’s Character is such a talented jerk - really hard to barrack for him...?

One thing i remember tho - which hasn’t really been discussed:

Jessica Lange.

Given how she’s become a bit of an icon (here especially!) - and even her detractors give her credit as being a ‘serious actress’ - in my memory, this film was kind of a turning point for her. She’d been pilloried as beautiful with no substance after King Kong, and was really a bit of a joke for a long time. Kong was thought to be a career killing movie. But I remember her getting special mention in this in just about every review at the time - along the lines of Huh? She’s actually really good in the small but pivotal part. Who knew she could act?

I’ve always thought that it was her role here as The Angel of Death that erased the memory of Kong and was her entree to the career that followed. Without this - she’d just have been - well - Cybill Shepherd springs to mind...

All That Jazz was definitely the turning point for Jessica Lange. After that, she started getting good roles.

[quote]She’s actually really good in the small but pivotal part. Who knew she could act?

Bob Fosse knew.

R103 Jessica Lange credits Bob Fosse for saving her career by giving her this role. After King Kong, no one would touch her, and she thought she was finished in Hollywood. Then Fosse offered this small role, and she was brilliant in it. This is the part that got her career back on track.

The drugs had gotten to Fosse in that he no longer had great artistic creativity. If you watch Sweet Charity, you can see how he used movement to create character. By the time he got to ATJ, that was out the window. He knew how to create an original looks to his dance but they no longer had anything to do with character. After watching "Fosse", it was clear he had a very limited chreographic vocabulary and that's why the show got so boring. All the dances looked alike. Beat me Daddy is a great number but it does inform the show the way Rich Man's Frug did.

After Star 80, Fosse was pretty desperate for work and said that he would have done A Chorus Line if he had been asked. It would have been a way to claim ownership of the title because Vicki Frederick said that people often came up to him and told him that his show ACL was his favorite show of all time. Remember the scene where the fan goes up to John Lithgow, playing Hal Prince and says he's her favorite director after Joe Gideon? That was based on his ACL obsession.

The famous Airotica number was to originally starred Cheryl Clark who played the first murderess in Chicago. She even helped choreograph the end of the first half. Fosse added the topless scene, some felt as a punishment for her rejecting him. Clark, a Roman Catholic, refused and was fired and Sandahl Bergman came in. Bergman just had tit implants and that's why they stand straight up when she's laying down.

Indeed they do, r107...............

....

Has anyone read the bio on Fosse? I don't know much abotu him and have not seen much of his work, but I wonder if the book might still be of interest, and if you learn anything about broadway from it, or just the details of his life. Anyone?

Jessica Lange was signed to a seven-year contract with Dino DeLaurentiis, but after 3 years and no projects forthcoming, Lange broke her contract and signed on to do ALL THAT JAZZ. The part of Angelique was written specifically for Jessica, who was dating Bob Fosse at the time. But it's not like this movie turned Jess' career around. She was once again dismissed as just another pretty blonde model-turned-actress using boyfriends to land good movie roles (Hi, Cybill!). After ATJ, she crashed with the flop comedy, HOW TO BEAT THE HIGH COST OF LIVING. It would be another two years, with THE POSTMAN ALWAYS RINGS TWICE when the critics finally took notice of her acting talents.

I have - read both the recent Sam Wasson bio, FOSSE, and a previous bio by Martin Gottfried called ALL HIS JAZZ. Both very good.

EVERYTIME I WANT TO THINK BOB FOSSE STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN I REMEMBER HE MADE “STAR 80”.

PLUS HE MADE LIZA LOOK GREAT ALONG WITH MY BELOVED HALSTON

The "Gideon and Jagger" scene is so pivotal because it's not only fun and heartwarming... it's the moment you realize Gideon is beyond redemption. Watching the beautiful girlfriend and talented daughter show that they love him completely AND understand and respect his work, we see that he has everything he needs for a happy life and successful future right there in that room. But it's not enough for him, he won't stop the chorus girls and cigs and Dexedrine, because he's a damn fool who claims to be looking for love but doesn't appreciate the real thing when it grabs him and shouts "I'M RIGHT HERE GODDAMIT" in his ear.

You know, someone once asked why Fosse didn't play Gideon himself, he could act and God knows he understood the character. But he didn't need himself, he didn't need to be THAT self-indulgent, he needed a leading actor who could deliver an Oscar-level performance. And Scheider did in that scene, the love, pride, embarrassment, exhaustion, are all right there as he sits quietly, you can see the push-pull of wanting to stay there and love and be loved, and wanting to get away so he can fuck some random chorus girl.

It's dated. That said, it is probably one of the top three musicals of the 20th century. Dated, but riveting. Dated, but fabulous.

I only saw "Star 80" once, and a long time ago. I remember being quite riveted by it, even though the subject matter was so sleazy (too much heterosexuality).

Is it generally regarded as a good film?

It was better than [italic]Staying Alive[/italic], R116, that's for damn sure. None of Fosse's movies are terrible and all are worth watching. If he lived, he would have made [italic]Chicago[/italic] a cinematic tour-de-force.

R117, he'd lost it by then. Chicago is a big hit now but the tone is much different than what he did.

Star 80 is a great film. It's incredibly disturbing. Eric Roberts' performance is one for the ages. it's one of those performances that transcends acting. Although Roberts would go on to win an Oscar nomination for another film (Runaway Train) he deserved a nomination - and win - for this film. He would never be able to top this performance, it was that good and that disturbing.

r107's story makes me wonder if one day we will see Fosse's name added to the list of "harassers". That story doesn't present him in a good light at all.

R107, if you've ever read any of Fosse's bio, he was really bad about it. He tried to rape Jennifer Nairn Smith after an audition. Of course, it didn't stop her from moving in with him and Ann Reinking. The menage a trois in ATJ was based on it. The note she left said "A three way to nowhere. I'm out".

I remember when the Fosse biographies came out, Roy Scheider publicly trashed them, but there was a perception of “Who appointed Roy Scheider as Bob Fosse’s defender?” Howard Stern’s Stuttering John (of all people) asked Scheider why he was obsessed with Bob Fosse!

“Star 80” was excellent and Eric Roberts was electrifying. Carroll Baker had a couple of nice scenes, too.

My favorite part of this movie is the scene where Fosse rages at Victoria during rehearsal, having had his fuck-fill of her ... but then turns out to have a heart after all.

R40 - thanks for the chuckle. ‘Stayin’ Alive,” boy that was bad. Just bad.

[quote]‘Stayin’ Alive,”

How ironic that death managed to result in a better movie than that.

R9 that sounds amazing! Can you imagine a kid doing that today? Never in a million years

r98, there are no "pulled shades" in the Air-otica number. They simply turn the lights off.

I liked Fosse a lot more before I discovered Jack Cole. Now I see how much Fosse stole from Cole, including Cole's trusted assistant Gwen Verdon.

Yes, [R9]'s story about being a kid in NYC in the '60s conveys the romance of the city back then, but just want to point out that $12 back then, adjusted for inflation, is about $93 now. That's about half what it costs for great seats on the Broadway of today, depending on the show, but still, not much of a bargain.

I absolutely love R9's story!

And I envy him his unusual childhood. Oh, it would have changed my life for the better if I'd been able to do anything similar, but I didn't have the freedom, the location, he confidence, or the spending money to do anything of the kind.

Bobby was such a cut-up! He had the prop guy put Palmolive in my coffee cup. Spit take after spit take. Unfortunately they all ended up on the cutting room floor.

Actress Leland Palmer was raised as Linda Palmer in Port Washington, NY and found out her family had changed the last name from Posner. Don't think she's a rabbi, but does anyone know? She did move to Israel after 1980, but came back after a while to northern California where she choreographs and teaches dance. Her daughter is a well-regarded modern dancer (Pearl Marill) with her own Bay Area dance company(M.A. in Ethnic Dance from UCLA.) No indication in press or IMDB why she reverted to working as Linda Posner and doesn't perform anymore. Odd she seemed to stay away from L.A. after she came back to the States.

Lange has said there were a handful of directors and actors who reached out to her after Kong:

Me, Pollack, Rafelson and Nicholson were the first.

We all not only fell in love with her in Kong, but thought she had real talent.

In retrospect, her work in Kong is quite brilliant. Sexy, effervescent and one of the most spot-on tributes to Ms. Monroe.

Also, the HFPA knew she was a star, too, that's why they awarded her the Globe for New Star of the Year for Kong.

They did the same thing for Pia Zadora Mr. Fosse.

R133 And she is a stah!, no?

It wasn't Jessica Lange's fault that King Kong was such a POS. She gave a pretty good performance in spite of the material she was given, imho.

R139 She was spectacular and still the "Beauty" that makes you cry hardest for the "Beast".

How did I know the Jessica Lange trolls would hijack this thread?

R137 Simmer down, Matt.

[quote] Also, the HFPA knew she was a star, too, that's why they awarded her the Globe for New Star of the Year for Kong.

Yes, that was the year Arnold Schwarzenegger won for New Male Star of the Year. I'd say he was an even match for Lange.

R139. Yep. They both won Oscars, too.

The only person I couldn't stand in this movie was Leland Palmer. I don't know what it was about her, but she just irritated the hell out of me whenever she was onscreen. Maybe she was overacting? I don't know for sure, but her presence was annoying.

A tipsy Lange talking earlier this year about Fosse and playing the Angel of Death after Steven Colbert admits she's one of the reasons he joined showbiz.

Fab.

The Kellyanne shade is priceless.

Colbert is a big "All That Jazz" fanboy, btw.

The one that got away...

....

Perfection.

R141--I know Ill get it fior this but I think one reason you felt this way was that she was so unattractive on screen and also,like Hugh J. has no sex appeal.

R146 True, she wasn't attractive, but I think it was something more. Her acting at the end of the "Airotica" scene, where she tells Roy Scheider she thinks it's the best work he's ever done, just seems so forced and false. I can't articulate it, other than to say it was grating on my nerves.

I really think her eyes bulged which goes back to what i said about attractiveness

Fosse said he auditioned other musical comedy females for Reinking's part. Who else was around at the time except for McKechnie?

Wasn't Fosse's portrayal of the songwriting team , clearly based on Kander and Ebb, very disrespectful??

Didn't Julie Hagerty have a part that got cut out altogether?

R151, it was just Fred Ebb who was portrayed and it couldn't have been that disrespectful considering everyone who ever saw Ebb perform recognized him immediately.

That last bio of Fosse ALL HIS JAZZ was a fabulous read. Very detailed depiction of the man.

In his last years when he was in NY he'd have breakfast every morning with Paddy Chayevsky and some other Broadway alta cockers. In spite of all of his film successes he always had trouble rain=sing money and support for the next movie.

His first wife was Joan McCracken is still well-remembered singing Pass That Peace Pipe in the MGM musical GOOD NEWS.

I'm shocked it hasn't been mentioned here yet but LENNY, his briliant bio film about Lenny Bruce is sadly forgotten

Hey Willie, is that you?

[quote][R151], it was just Fred Ebb who was portrayed and it couldn't have been that disrespectful considering everyone who ever saw Ebb perform recognized him immediately.

Anthony Holland, who played him, killed himself nine years later when he found out he had AIDS.

R154, Sandahl Bergman related how he tried to pimp her out to David Melnick to get more money for All That Jazz. Bergman was still in the midst of filming Airotica after he'd fired Cheryl Clark. She told Fosse if he called Bergman, she would go back to LA that afternoon and not finish shooting.

True, r154. Nominated for the big five at the Oscars but now hardly even mentioned. I remember it being an incredible year for Best Director: Fosse, Coppola, Polanski, Cassavetes, one more. (Truffaut? Sorry, too lazy to check.)

Should have been if Fosse called Melnick.

The 1974 Oscar race was basically a rematch between Coppola and Fosse. 1979 was too, up to a point, since [italic]Apocalypse Now[/italic] was also nominated.

Under those circumstances, one wonders if [italic]Kramer vs. Kramer[/italic] won because enough Oscar voters wanted to give someone else a chance for a change.

Thanks, R154, for reminding me of this delightful gem!

I’d heard Julie Hagerty was cut out of “All That Jazz”, too.

r148, I agree Leland Palmer's acting seemed forced and unnatural at times ("That man is going to drive me crazy!"). But her musical number "After You've Gone" is my favorite number in the film, and the way her gigantic bug eyes pop out adds to the surreal quality of the number, r149. Her face peeking out between her jazz hands is the quintessential image from the film for me.

Interesting Fun Fact for those who don't know:

Roy Scheider wasn't the first choice. It was Richard Dreyfuss! He was very hot having just won the Oscar for The Goodbye Girl. Can you imagine? That would have been awful. I think he left after the first week of filming, and suggested Scheider after working with him in Jaws.

It's interesting to note Erzsebet Foldi has only this one acting credit. As a born again Christian she left the business completely.

The kid had talent and couldn't have asked for a better launch. In light of all that has been coming to light lately I wonder if she had a #meToo moment back then as well.

[quote]R121 “Star 80”...Eric Roberts was electrifying. Carroll Baker had a couple of nice scenes, too.

Carroll Baker is a superb actress. I loved her autobiography.

R160 Kramer was a huge hit and swept the critics awards and the globes. I think the nominations for Coppola and Fosse were seen as their rewards considering Kramer swept through everything else up until and right through the Oscars (at least the top awards).

No one remembers Kramer vs. Kramer.

Kramer vs. Kramer was one notch above what today we would call a Lifetime movie. All That Jazz should've won Best Picture.

Only musicals should be eligible for Best Picture from now on.

Kramer vs. Kramer was one notch above what today we would call a L̶i̶f̶e̶t̶i̶m̶e̶ 𝐇𝐚𝐥𝐥𝐦𝐚𝐫𝐤 𝐂𝐡𝐫𝐢𝐬𝐭𝐦𝐚𝐬 movie.

1979 was a banner year. Being There and Manhattan were non-nominees. It was also the year La Cage Aux Folles came out.

So who was John Lithgow supposed to represent?

r172, please see r107.

WOW! R165 - that’s the only time I’ve ever heard of Baker referred to as a ‘superb actress’! In fact I remember years ago watching the biopic she did of Harlow on TV - and the reviewer guy who introduced it sneered about her as one of his least favourite actresses who was responsible for ruining just about every movie she was in...or words to that effect (he could be such a bitchy queen at times - but was spot on in many of his reviews and had encyclopaedic movie knowledge and was very popular in his little pond) .

Back to Fosse tho -

I always found it so incredibly hard to believe he was straight! I mean - c’mon! Career dancer/choreographer - inveterate bad-boy womaniser - multiple marriages...blah blah blah

Yet he exuded hardly a whiff of masculinity and seemed almost fey.

I’d be be more surprised to hear that he didn’t ever indulge in the delights of the flesh with other men than he actually did!

Knew a couple of bi men years ago, one of them even vaguely resembled fosse physically. Both Married. Kids. Both got busted having affairs with women, promised never to have an affair with another woman ever again - and both enthusiastically took took up the homosex. And I mean enthusiastically!

Surely someone here had heard more about Fosse...?

[quote] I.M. Hobson, who later joined Ann Reinking in Annie as Drake the butler and also played a French restaurant owner on Newhart, is in the film as one of the actors at the table read.

Talk about your thrilling acting careers!

LOL r175. I can just imagine that being read by James Lipton.

Theresa Merritt is in that same scene, too.

I absolutely love this film and I'm a huge fan of Bob F ---nice call, OP! Will you marry me? <3

But the thread is not exactly over yet. Murray?

[quote] Smoke, smoke. Smoke... Smoke...

Jennifer Nairn-Smith, who was sapphically paired with Rima during the Air-otica number.

Rima Vetter, who was sapphically paired with Jennifer during the Air-otica number. I loved her quiet desperation during the cattle call when she admits to Roy Scheider that she lied about being in the Wiz on her resume.

And here's Jennifer in Polica's "Wandering Star".

Hand model Leland Schwantes, who played Autumn in the Air-otica number. He seems to be the only dancer who didn't use his real name in that scene.

Carroll Baker was an Actor’s Studio alumnae who scored a terrific one-two punch in Hollywood with “Giant” and “Baby Doll”, the latter of which snared her a well-deserved Oscar nomination. She also garnered fine reviews in William Wyler’s “The Big Country”. Later, in the 1960s, she and/or her handlers decided to market her as a sex symbol, and it not only damaged her credibility as an actress, but the irony is that she was far sexier and appealing when she wasn’t trying to be overtly sexual. After her giallo sojourn in Italy, she returned to America to excellent effect in “Star 80” and “Ironweed”.

R28, thank you for posting the link. If I didn’t know I was gay back then, that scene certainly made me aware.

R174 "I always found it so incredibly hard to believe he was straight! I mean - c’mon! Career dancer/choreographer - inveterate bad-boy womaniser - multiple marriages...blah blah blah"

I can't remember where in the movie, but I recall a scene with Roy Scheider and Jessica Lange where there is a reference to his sexuality being questioned.

Who played the teen Bob Fosse, molested by show girls?

R187 That was Keith Gordon, who also played Angie Dickinson's son in "Dressed to Kill" and a lot of other films in the 1980s and 90s. He's mostly directed today.

There was a long interview with Richard Dreyfuss in a 1978 Esquire magazine which included the subject of his withdrawing from All That Jazz. He said he was in a grip of a big drug problem at the time, but also admitted to not getting along with Fosse.

Dreyfuss would have been good, I think, but probably too manic. Scheider was the right choice - much more masculine, commanding, and with a mix of seductive and intimidating.

After Dreyfuss pulled out the part was offered to Gene Hackman but he was semi-retired after Superman. Hackman later said he wanted to do a musical but he never did.

The story I got was that Scheider was more of a song and dance guy than Dreyfus. Dreyfus said I can't do this, and Scheider was in.

The showgirl with the non white face was Rima, silly fools. You can also recognize Victoria Porter in the line up of showgirls as well. Who do you think would've played the showgirls?

My parents had this album as well as Billy Joel's 52nd street, and I listened to them ad nauseum, but I never put together the Bye Bye Life/Stiletto thing until now.

Also spent many an hour perfecting the bit to the George Benson guitar solo from the opening, and also trying to "Lay Back!" the way he wanted her to, in front of my bedroom mirror

This soundtrack is not on Spotify, how irritating.

[quote]I always found it so incredibly hard to believe he was straight! I mean - c’mon! Career dancer/choreographer - inveterate bad-boy womaniser - multiple marriages...blah blah blah

Fosse was probably over-compensating because he was a male dancer and automatically "suspected" of being a homosexual. I'm willing to bet, though, that he had some homosex experiences when he was young.

And now here's Bob Fosse and Tommy Rall:

The flaw in the film for me is that Scheider, as good as his acting is, can't dance. I suppose you could make the argument that by this point in his life Fosse had lost some of his skill as a dancer due to age and drugs and a weak heart. But because he was so specific and demanding as a choreographer, the idea that he couldn't dance at all just doesn't work.

It would appear that Fosse wanted Roy Scheider because Scheider was physically so like Fosse and could move like a choreographer (that is, a former dancer). He had to let the studio force Dreyfus on him, but was so demanding of and rude to Dreyfus that he had no choice but to quit.

I think, on looking back, that Dreyfus, though excellent in many roles (such as that of Streisand's defense attorney in Nuts) would have been absurdly miscast in All That Jazz. He simply doesn't have a choreographer's feel about him.

There is horribly "sped-up" version of this on YouTube, if you can stomach the incorrect tempo and helium sounding voices.

Can any of you, from personal experience, confirm that was really what his auditions were like? Was it that crowded? Were there really doofuses like that one guy who cannot dance at all?

R196 YouTube allows you to slow the playback; hit the button for "settings" (looks like a gear.)

All the parts are good. They just don't add up to a good whole. Still, a film thats worth watching.

Maybe she refused to change her name r164.

As many commented above, the dance sequence with Reinking and Foldi was wonderful and touching, but my second favorite scene, (especially on repeated viewings), is the one near the end in the hospital basement. He's sitting at a table smoking cigarettes with an old black janitor, who's guarding him, waiting for the orderlies to pick him up to bring him back to his room. He and the janitor repeatedly sing "Pack Up Your Troubles in Your Old Kit Bag..." as the janitor taps his fingers on the table for accompaniment . The janitor was played by legendary song-and-dance man Tiger Haynes. LOVED that scene!

Meryl played the Baby Doll role on stage to great acclaim when she was beginning her show biz ascent r184.

Was she any good in BAD r184?

Thanks r193. The cinematographic composition is amazing, it looks like an Edward Hopper painting in motion.

Carrroll Baker gave a finely-tuned deadpan performance in Andy Warhol’s “Bad”, R202, at least in my opinion!

Also, glad to know that I wasn’t the only one who thought that Jessica Lange was tipsy in the Colbert interview at R142!

Jessica Lange's been a drunk for decades.

Isn't his real life daughter, Nicole Fosse, the dancer who sticks her foot in the lyricists face? "Would you MIND doing that somewhere else?" Why didn't he give her a bigger part?

[quote] Jessica Lange's been a drunk for decades.

She put the cunt in [italic]Country[/italic] and that's why she lost the Oscar to Sally Field.

I'm very glad that nether Dreyfuss or Hackman got the part. They're very good actors, but neither of them could play someone with a dance background. Hackman just wasn't right physically, he was a big soft man, he just didn't have a dancer's body type and never had. Dreyfuss would have seemed to small for the role, physically and in terms of personality, and his way of standing with his paunch out and head forward didn't belong in the dance world.

But Scheider was as lean as a dancer and had the right body language, he may not have danced but he stood and moved like someone with a dance background. He kept his back straight and his shoulders back like a dancer even when he wasn't supposed to be paying any attention to how he stood, and when he was "on" he stood like someone who knew how to command center stage. I assume he got that from Fosse, either by imitating his way or moving or being coached by him. Whatever, it worked.

My favourite routine. The backstory behind Reinking's audition process for this film, if true, is both sad and heartwarming. At least to this old queen.

That's a good analysis of why Scheider was right for the part and why the other choices would not have been, R208.

And since then, even though the girl says "I think lesbian scenes are a big turn-off", we see more lesbian scenes in movies and TV than gay male ones.

Thank you R210, Scheider really was perfect for the role. Not just because he was a very good actor, not just because he got the former dancer's body language right, but because he had the right skinny build!

Really, he did look just like a dancer-turned-choreographer who'd been living that lifestyle should look - a body that was once lean and muscular turned stringy and nearly gaunt by age, stress, smoking, Dexedrine, and poor diet.

It just occurred to me that the Disney-Fox deal means this is a Disney movie now! At least the half not owned by Columbia.

thats a sad thought R211---

thats a sad thought was meant for the merger of Disney at R212

Neither Fox nor Columbia's actual logos have ever actually been on the film in any copy that I've seen and I've seen it multiple times in multiple formats.

R174 WOW! [R165] - that’s the only time I’ve ever heard of Baker referred to as a ‘superb actress’! In fact I remember years ago watching the biopic she did of Harlow on TV - and the reviewer guy who introduced it sneered about her as one of his least favourite actresses who was responsible for ruining just about every movie she was in...or words to that effect (he could be such a bitchy queen at times - but was spot on in many of his reviews and had encyclopaedic movie knowledge and was very popular in his little pond) .

Carroll Baker was an extremely gifted actress. Her Oscar nominated turn in BABY DOLL is one of the best performances I've ever seen. She was the first choice for THE TREE FACES OF EVE and CAT ON A HOT TIN ROOF, but her studio wouldn't lend her out.

She trained at the Actors Stdio and got raves on Broadway for the drama ALL SUMMER LONG.

She kind of sold out, though, in the sense that Paramount hired her for a bunch of trashy melodramas in the early 60's. She had a controlling husband and 2 kids to support. I don't know that anyone could have really been truly good in any of those. They're kind of embarrasing. And they all, HARLOW included, had wretched scripts. And she was naturally kind of ladylike, so I don't know why they even thought she'd be effective in them.

But she's really good in her more reserved roles.

Carroll Baker has the same problem that Marilyn Monroe has--some people refuse to entertain the notion that a woman that beautiful could have talent.

Baker in Baby Doll and Monroe in Bus Stop are superb, and unlike anyone else would have been in the roles. But the roles themselves could have been played--however blandly--by any pretty girl, so the doubting thomases simply assume that this is all Baker or Monroe must have been.

[quote]R216 THE TREE FACES OF EVE

I believe I meant [italic] The THREE Faces of Eve.

Though my new, improved version sounds interesting, too. ("A young housewife and mother is mystified by reports that she's been turning into various types of trees while in blackouts...")

Carroll Baker conveying good emotion with half her face covered.

James Dean is talking about being in love with her mother, after courting her, himself:

Dennis Carothers Stanfill, the guy who ran Fox when this and the original [italic]Star Wars[/italic] movies were made was briefly considered to become the head of Disney studios in the 1980s before Michael Eisner got the job.

IIRC they greenlit some gay-themed films on his watch including but not limited to [italic]Making Love[/italic], also distributing [italic]Eating Raoul[/italic] to theaters. Maybe stuff like that would have become Touchstone's bill of fare under his watch.

I LOVE the Gideon Jagger dance scene like everyone else. I’m surprised nobody has omaged it in another film because it’s brilliant in so many ways

[quote]R183 Hand model Leland Schwantes, who played Autumn in the Air-otica number....

It would hard to replicate the emotional intimacy of the scene, R221. That was genuine.

[quote]It would hard to replicate the emotional intimacy of the scene, [R221]. That was genuine.

I could do it ! !

I wonder what Fosse's great appeal was to women. He is very nondescript-looking. That's not to say he couldn't have magnetism, but I'm wondering why he was so successful with women. Aside from the ones he probably bullied and harassed into it, of course. He seems totally bland, though.

I love most of his choreography, but it doesn't seem like his creative vocabulary expanded much over the decades. And that number from "My Sister Eileen" looks like it was cribbed from Gene Kelly--or was it the other way around?

Leland with Chita doing a terrible version of All That Jazz on Merv Griffin. Merv definitely likes Leland.

[quote] I wonder what Fosse's great appeal was to women. He is very nondescript-looking. That's not to say he couldn't have magnetism, but I'm wondering why he was so successful with women. Aside from the ones he probably bullied and harassed into it, of course. He seems totally bland, though.

Maybe it's Roy Scheider's appeal you're projecting onto him.

r226 What the fuck was that?

Sorry, that response makes no sense to me, R227. What are you trying to say?

Jesus, Chita should have been drummed outta BroadWAY after that clip and been forced to play the sleaziest dive in Reno for the rest of her days.

I gotta laugh about Roy Scheider's dancer posture. Not saying he didn't have it but the point is is that Fosse didn't. He was round shouldered and had a bad turnout so he played to those qualities. That's where his style came from. He made his own faults part of his vocabulary and then took them beyond. He used hats because he was balding. Guy knew how to work it.

Joan pushed for his career as a choreographer. She was of course bat shit crazy and while he dumped her for Gwen he still saw to it that she was financially comfortable during her last years. Did the same for Carol Haney who he probably nailed at one time as well as Jeanne Coyne, Gene Kelly's second wife.

He was a very loyal friend. In his will he left 600$ to each of 60 friends so that they could go out and have a great time on him. He wanted to be remembered as a good time.

When I saw this as a 21 year old transitioning from a college student to a theater professional I was tremendously fascinated with a man who prophecied his own death.

Tommy Rall is still alive. I bet he has some Fosse stories.

Bob and Tommy in Kiss Me Kate with Jeannie and Carol and Ann. I don't care to acknowledge Bobby Van in this.

Tommy's big swing in proved he was a god.

"I wonder what Fosse's great appeal was to women. "

In addition to whatever personal charisma he may have had, and the professional advancement he could offer to any dancer or actress... when a woman with show biz aspirations looked at him, she had to think "This man could make me a goddess".

Obviously, it'd take an incentive that strong, with a face like that.

Dang, he looked better as an older man!

Oops missed the link

[quote]R231 Did the same for Carol Haney who he probably nailed at one time as well

Didn't she die young, somehow?

Both Joan and Carol suffered from ill health and suffered from diabetes. They both drank heavily. Joan had a heart attack at 43.

Carol was 39, complications from her diabetes.

Burned themselves out almost. It was a wonder Bob made it to 60.

Leland Palmer was also in the Nureyev “Valentino” - excellent in a tiny part. She should have had an acting career.

Also, she’s Jewish, but not a rabbi. She’s an interfaith minister in senior care facilities.

Valentino

Love this movie and have it on 3 different DVDs (Criterion the best). Did I miss a mention of Miss Paula Abdul's tribute to Air-Rotica?

r240, check out r97.

Gary Flannery who was one of the Air Rotica dancers is still very much alive. He's a friend.

Deborah Geffner (Victoria) has her own Youtube channel

[quote]I was born a few years after it was made I think (1983) an it does not live up to its hype.

Well, there's your Millennial answer right there!

No, it was released in 1979, and yes, full rich lives and admirable works of art were produced and enjoyed years before you arrived to join and school us!

All That Jazz was an almost universally praised film in 1979 and was nominated for nine Academy Awards, winning four, so yes, it actually DID live up to its hype!

Oh R142 so we can blame 'tipsy Lange' for encouraging the smug MrColbert to join 'showbiz'.

R244, that's totally wrong. It got middling reviews and several outright pans.

It was ahead of it's time. Although definitely a period piece, I think creatively and artistically it has aged quite well. There were many great films in 1979, but I think the two films that most divided many critics have risen to the top of the list: Apocalypse Now and All That Jazz.

Any biblical scholars reading this thread who can illuminate why the leading character is named Gideon?

They only angle I can come up with is a quote from "Guys and Dolls." "There are two things been in every hotel room in the country. Sky Masterson, and the Gideon Bible." That could apply to Fosse, too, I suspect.

[quote] I’m surprised nobody has omaged it in another film

Oh, [italic]dear.[/italic]

[quote] All That Jazz was an almost universally praised film in 1979

That's not true at all.

Yes, r246 and r250, but I have NEVER been one to let a few FACTS spoil my rant....which I still stand by.....basically!

One irony: A Chorus LIne bested Chicago to win the Tony for Best Musical of 1976 and became the longest running musical of all-time. But the revival of Chicago ended up surpassing it and is still running!

Has any dancer who worked directly with Fosse die with both original hips?

What made Leland drop out of acting after 1980 and move to Israel? She was only 35.

Anyone know what made Leland/Linda drop out of the business after 1980 and go to Israel? She was only 35.

My assumption would be, r255, that she couldn't take the high pressures of the business any more (or didn't want to). Wasn't she supposed to be Cassie in the L.A. run and...and....

Wow, she would be a terrific Cassie.

Ann wasn't r257.......

When I was very young, Bob Fosse starred in a NY City Center revival of “Pal Joey”. He was incredible! To this day I recall it as the best performance by a male lead in a musical that I’ve ever seen.

[quote] Ann wasn't [R257].......

She couldn't have been worse than that Reed woman they got for the movie.

Leland did play the role literally for one or two performances. My friend who was an usher at the now defunct Shubert in LA told me about it and I saw her. Very, very compelling performance. I have no idea why she stopped but suddenly, she appeared in a play based on Jules Feiffer's cartoons called "Hold Me". This was at the same time ACL was playing across town.

Christ, how could they put Leland in the Line? She don't fit, she's too goddamned good!

"Anyone know what made Leland/Linda drop out of the business after 1980 and go to Israel? She was only 35. "

Good Lord, she claimed to be 35?

That's pretty much the entire point of the role of Cassie, R262.

Leland/Linda decided to drop out of the business after her Chorus Line breakdown ( it was only one performance she did. Michael Bennett loved her and told her to take all the time she needed, but she told him she wouldn’t be back. Bennett brought Reinking out to fill in for a few weeks, since McKechnie had just left the LA company and Reinking was just finishing up in the NY company. She only stayed for a few weeks, then had to go back and replace Verdon in Chicago). She’d been disaffected by “the biz” for awhile and had developed an interest in senior care.

She had already started working in senior care when Fosse called. He wanted her to follow Reinking and finish out the run of Chicago as Roxie, and then follow that with All That Jazz, essentially playing Gwen. She resisted but finally agreed to doing the film, but not to doing Chicago. She was quoted as saying she had the best time of her professional career doing “All That Jazz” because there was no pressure for her - she knew she was stepping back out of show biz when it was finished.

A couple of years later her father died, and this was when she discovered she was Jewish. Her father had changed the family name from Posner to Palmer in the 1930s because of anti-semitism. She was born Linda Palmer. (Leland was because there was already a Linda Palmer in Equity). It blew her away and that’s why she went to Israel, lived on a kibbutz, to get in touch with her Jewish identity.

Wow, thanks, R265. Great way to round out the thread and the Leland Palmer story. I'm glad she was in demand until the end and decided to leave show business on her own terms.

Fascinating, r265. I love hearing these stories about Hollywood actors with a sense of mission that causes them to leave the Biz (i.e. Mark Goddard, Dolores Hart, and, uh, even Kirk Cameron).

R265 That story about changing the family name from Posner to Palmer is similar to Lilli Peiser who changed her name to Lilli Palmer.

This thread has made me review a lot of clips of Bob Fosse dancing, and I have to say I like his choreography for others better than his dancing. His stooped posture drives me crazy, and it works better as a stylized element for dancers for whom it's not a habitual flaw. Just my opinion.

R265, not completely accurate about LA's ACL. Reinking had already done her turn in the LA Company. In a weird twist, Kelly Bishop also came into the LA company to briefly replace Charlene Ryan and performed with Reinking. An audio tape of that performance exists. Reinking left, Vicki Frederick came in and then Bennett asked Leland. She did it for the few performances and then the understudy Renata Vaselle went on. She was also a Fosse dancer who was one of the Fandago girls in the movie of Sweet Charity. When Vaselle decided to leave, her understudy, Pamela Peadon, who was McKechnie's understudy in On The Town, took over for the end of the run.

And while doing A Chorus Line, Pamela Peadon filmed her role as Marilyn Miller in the TV movie “Ziegfeld, the Man and His Women” starring DL faves Paul “Horse” Shenar, Inga Swenson, and Samantha Eggar.

There was also the Bennett massacre - four or five understudies had been hired (for the LA company) while Bennett was in Europe. When he finally made it back out to LA, he asked for them all to go on for a performance, watched the show, and promptly fired three of them. An acquaintance of mine was one of the firees and she was devastated.

What happened to Charlene Ryan? I saw the show various times throughout the LA run, and she was always Sheila except for once when it was a Fern Fitzgerald. Ryan was okay, not as good as Kelly Bishop, and I remember hating her hair, which was shortish, so the bit about “let your down” didn’t work.

Charlene Ryan was reputedly one of the chorus dancers Bennett based Sheila on. She was six feet tall and somehow, the size suited the barn-like Shubert. She was quite good but very different from Bishop. I thought Fern Fitzgerald was closer to Bishop and she also got a lot of TV work as a result of the show, which would eventually lead to Dallas. Ryan fell in with the Playboy crowd and even got boob implants. I think that was when Bishop stepped in. She eventually married a very famous cartoonist Sergio Aragones who even modeled one of his super-heroines after her.

Peadon was not liked by Bennett but she got some great reviews. LA magazine said she was better than Mckechnie because she brought vulnerability to the part, which Mckechnie lacked. Deborah Henry was on the line at the time as Val and definitely studied Peadon because several of her Cassie line readings and inflections were Peadon's, especially the cracking voice during the monologue. I just saw gray haired Peadon briefly in a commercial so she's still around.

Miss Peadon......

GODDAMMIT STOP TALKING ABOUT MICHAEL FUCKING BENNETT IN A FUCKING FOSSE THREAD!!!!

r265 thanks so much for that background. The health care profession is lucky to have Posner in its ranks.

So I decided to watch this for the first time today because of this, plus its freezing out!

It's showtime folks! (jazz hands)

"On Broadway" is such a great song!

The writer of the screenplay was once married to Bea Arthur!

[quote] All That Jazz was an almost universally praised film in 1979 and was nominated for nine Academy Awards, winning four, so yes, it actually DID live up to its hype!

You know what's so weird? The Golden Globes have a separate category for musicals and All That Jazz wasn't even nominated for Best Picture (Musical or Comedy)! The nominees were: 10, Being There, Breaking Away, Hair, The Rose. Scheider was nominated but Fosse wasn't. Go figure!

Fox and or Fosse probably didn't host a gala dinner for the FPA that year, r279. That was how you got Golden Globe nominations back then.

Billy Joel had no connection whatsoever to this film. The piano riff in Stiletto and the one in Bye Bye Love aren’t the same.

r280 Well I certainly knew that.

r263 looks like you're right --- somewhere in Google it says Posner is now 77, which means her birthdate was '39 or '40. r265-- she grew up on the north shore of L.I. and didn't know she was Jewish until she was an adult?

For you Leland Schwantes fans, looks like he has a son, Connor, who is also an actor, dancer, and "parts" model!

And Schwantes family holiday card, with jazz hands.

Why is Ann Reinking derided so much on here? Is it really because if the one Oscar performance? By that notion, Teri Garr, and many others should be DL persona non grata as well...

Why, R286? Look at Reinking's career. Movies didn't happen for her. She had some great breaks, but it never took off. Broadway is pretty much the same thing. Half of her Broadway performing career is directly linked to Fosse.

She is not untalented. But there are lots of others out there just as talented. She is not exceptional in any way, but for having exceptionally long, long legs. If you don't swoon for that, you probably don't swoon for Reinking.

I think AR is exceptional. You may not think her a first-class talent, or even talented at all. But she is unique--in her strange voice, her way of moving, her odd singing. Her looks. There never was anyone else on Broadway like her.

I also always enjoyed her in shows. She kept Goodtime Charley alive for me, because I've always disliked Joel Grey's infantile, Chaplinesque attitude. And she's fun in the Annie movie, which needs all the help it can get.

Fine, 288. You think she's exceptional. The business clearly did not agree.

The business has given more breaks to less exceptional people.

Reinking got where she did by fucking Fosse and then Herb Allen. I can't stand her speaking voice and her singing voice rivals Yoko Ono's. She's built like a horse and she dances like one, going through number after number like a treadless tank. Facially, I can't stand her mannish jaw and those close set eyes and that stringy mop on her head, yeesh. What is interesting is that she's got a very good eye for production. She learned working with the greats. She belongs behind the scenes, especially now that she weighs 200 pounds.

[quote]she grew up on the north shore of L.I. and didn't know she was Jewish until she was an adult?

Right. Her father had changed the family name to Palmer before she was born. She was brought up in a non-denominational household, but celebrated Christian holidays.

I saw Reinking in four shows, Goodtime Charley, Chicago (the original one, not the revival), Dancin, and A Chorus Line. She was outstanding in each of them. Her dancing was amazing, and her acting was especially good.

[quote]I also always enjoyed her in shows. She kept Goodtime Charley alive for me, because I've always disliked Joel Grey's infantile, Chaplinesque attitude.

Goodtime Charley was such a bomb but over 40 years later I can still remember tunes from the show and AR incredible performance. And yes, the very twee Joel Grey was insufferable.

She was great for theatre but was considered to be somewhat unphotogenic: the odd eyes and gummy smile.

r291 is Phil Collins, still bitter about that Against All Odds performance.

No, he’s probably mature enough to not hold a 40 year old grudge.

Reinking is extraordinary in the 'Gideon and Jagger' scene of All That Jazz. There's just something about her spirit and the way she moves that is utterly captivating, such that you can't imagine another performer in the scene (whereas the little girl, while good, could have been replaced by any other competent child actor/dancer). Maybe she wasn't a great fit for movies, but she definitely had something.

Well, this is DataLounge... I glanced at that thread title and was convinced it read "All That Jizz".

[quote] she grew up on the north shore of L.I. and didn't know she was Jewish until she was an adult?..... Right. Her father had changed the family name to Palmer before she was born. She was brought up in a non-denominational household, but celebrated Christian holidays.

She was't Jewish. Judaism is a choice not a nationality. She wasn't Jewish until she decided to become one.

Off topic, just want to say, Muriel, if these ads from realjock, that I always get for a few weeks, and I have read that other dlers get them as well, don't stop, I will not return to dl anymore. I have come here for six years but I will not return, just hang out a few minutes sometimes and that's it. The pics one can turn off in the settings, but not these ads.

Don't know if there is anything more to it than just making money, maybe also driving away trolls, but it certainly will get many of the few moral or educated posters left, and I guess also many lesbians, away from dl. I think most dlers get these ads.