Princess Michael of Kent wears racist brooch to meeting with Meghan Markle

DEAR OP please upload your clothing ensemble so we can criticise every little detail

I don't know about jewelry being (isn't all of it made from gold and silver mined by slave labor?) but it's a rather impressive piece of work.

I love how all the outraged tweets are from non-poc.

Yikes.

[quote]It's unclear whether the princess wore the brooch to intentionally make an offensive statement, or whether it was a clueless decision wear the tone-deaf accessory. But to wear it at all—especially at an event where a celebrated biracial duchess-to-be would attend—is simply inappropriate.

Well, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt.

[quote]It would be easier to look the other way if the princess didn't have history of racism—but she unfortunately does. In 2004, she reportedly told a group of black customers in a West Village, NYC restaurant to "go back to the colonies" after she complained that they were being noisy.

Oh, nevermind.

Wow, I hope this doesn't become a regular thing.

Is there protocol for combating royal racism?

[quote]Some might argue that European renditions of blackamoor art depicted black figures as noblemen, but they still exoticize people of color and are considered dated

It's one of those stories that only SJW poseurs get outraged about once you get to know the full details.

I'm sure she thought "I'll wear this lovely pin with a black girl on it to show her how much we welcome her to the family."

Yup, that was it.

FFS. Blackamoor was made as an amulet to ward off muslim pirates looking to kidnap people in Europe. The jewelry originated in Venice Italy.

Prince Michael of Kent would be a more apt description. Caitlyn Jenner is more feminine looking than her highness.

She/he knew exactly what she was doing. Hopefully Meghan has thick cafe au lait skin. lol.

Rut Roh!

This bitch knew exactly what she was doing. Fuck the Royal Family. Bunch of stuck up twats.

[quote]She/he knew exactly what she was doing

How do you know this? She's an elderly aristocrat with probably not much contact with modern political discourse. The chances that she knows what triggers neurotic 30-something female journalists in America are not that high. It is likely that by wearing a jewel depicting a Black aristocrat, she thought she was, in a very clueless way, welcoming her new relative into the fold.

[QUOTE]It would be easier to look the other way if the princess didn't have history of racism—but she unfortunately does. In 2004, she reportedly told a group of black customers in a West Village, NYC restaurant to "go back to the colonies" after she complained that they were being noisy.

R11 This isn't "modern political discourse". It is Post-Modern Cultural Marxism and very tiresome

Oh, THANK GOD this happened. The SJWs hadn't been thrown a fresh outrage for at least 12 hours. Twitter almost collapsed.

From her father's Wikipedia entry:

[quote]Günther Hubertus von Reibnitz (8 September 1894 – 2 March 1983) was a cavalry officer of the German Empire during the First World War. He joined the Nazi Party in 1930 and was a member of the SS Cavalry Corps.

Yeah, she knew what she was doing.

Oh, for christ's sake, are the fucking SJWs this desperate for attention these days? Even though I'm a proud, card-carrying liberal, I think the SJW hijinks are getting insufferable.

[quote]Yeah, she knew what she was doing.

"Her father was racist. Therefore she's very in touch with MY sensibilities and knows what would offend me." -- R15

Does that make any sense to you, r15?

Aristocrat? Princess Pushy's mom was a hairdresser and at one point I believe they lived over a shop either in Europe or Australia. She has noble ties but grew up at some points very impoverished.

What's tiresome to note here is how emblematic it is of the endless tirades of BS SJW 'journalism' and Twitter meltdowns and ad nauseum white guilt lashing we will have to endure in reporting and observation of Duchess Meg's doings and antics among the Royal Lions and their coterie for years to come.

Dear OP, the British freed their slaves forty years before you Americans

How exactly is wearing a brooch of a black person racist? If it had been a white person she might have been proclaiming white supremacy.

Not surprised. It's expected. She is after all......

How long did Britain have people in shackles before America even came into existence?

R17, her father's history coupled with the brooch and the racists remarks in NYC brought me to that conclusion.

Of all the brooches she could have worn on that particular day, she chose that one, she didn't have to, but she did.

And some of you seem to enjoy calling people SJWs but not everyone opposed to offensive behavior is a social justice warrior.

I don't know the princess personally but she probably agrees with me that this new American isn't suitable to be a princess.

This 'marriage' will last 5 years max.

If anyone can find a picture of that bitch wearing the broach on any other occasion, us SJWs will surrender our outrage.

Off the wedding guest list.

Who is this pretentious wannbe royal and can be even nastier about her?

I am not an SJW. I know this woman in person. She has stayed in my house and dined at my table. Because she is a friend of my ex.

No doubt in my mind that she did it on purpose.

We called her "The Princess for Rent."

Amen r26. She did it very deliberately to establish dominance. Well too bad, Mike, Meghan won, you lost, take a nap and shove your racist pin up your flat bony non-existent ass.

Dear R26 please don't consider our feelings. Please continue to be obnoxious as you are.

WE will ignore you.

She knew what she what she was doing. She has dressers. It was in bad taste and certainly others could have pointed out to her that her intent in wearing it was questionable and would be questioned. Which makes it very clear what her intent was in wearing it.

Nice way to steal the show!

Deliciously cunty.

I don’t approve of her choice of jewelry. I think it was in poor taste and very deliberate. But damn if that wasn’t deliciously cunty.

I like her style.

What a crude, offensive thing to do. If this bigoted twit can be in the Royal Family, really, anyone can. No one is any position to object to Meghan.

So, a sketchy person (Princess Michael) shaded another sketchy person (Meghan Markle) who's marrying a fool (Prince Harry).

I love this anecdote about HRH Princess Michael of Kent:

She once waited for a cleaner to climb down off of a ladder so said cleaner could curtsy to her. Apparently, whenever a royal enters a room, one must curtsy. The cleaner climbed down and curtsied. Satisfied, Princess Michael walked through the room, and the cleaner climbed back up the ladder.

She also used the word "niggardly" when referring to the portion sizes at the luncheon.

There’s a lot of that going around, R39.

LOL what a cunt. You kind of have to admire her. Bitch knew exactly what she was doing. This has nothing to do with SJWs.

Of course it was deliberate. These people are all about rules, etiquette and social cues. This is their whole lives.

I don't care about the minor-Royals (see bitchy Anne, below) and care even less about this new Mulatto American interloper

R37 Summed it up! Case closed.

R8 Princess Michael of Kent was actually rather beautiful when young

Princess Michael LIVES in Kensington Palace too. Oh that's rich and makes this definitely not an accident. There's been several unflattering articles about her released recently including one calling her Princess Pushy, I thought that was Megs nickname!

That old cunt should have worn her earrings from the Duchess of Windsor to complete the ensemble.

She's beyond stupid, and that's saying a lot in this group.

Good God, some people will find something wrong with anything. Princess Michael is class through and through and would never intentionally wear something racist. She would have too much respect for the Queen, as well as Meghan. This is must more pandering to morons by the part of the British press who hate the royals with a passion.

R32 No dressers. You would be surprised how poor most royals are. Most live in "subsidized housing." They make some money on book sales and TV appearances. They "dine out" seven nights a week on their status, but have no real jobs and less allowance from the gov't.

Princess Michael stays with people all over the world who think it glam to have her at their dinner parties. She appears at Fundraisers like "Save Venice" because rich Americans know that they will get their pictures with her in TOWN & COUNTRY. I saw her swimming in the Cipriani pool the day after Diana's death. They are mercenaries.

As a lower rung royal she’s not unlike our societally ostracized president. She revels at being intentionally tone deaf. Wherever she dines tomorrow dozens will coyly congratulate her for her courage.

The other BILLIONS of other people in the world will, if they ever hear about it, spit.

Grandees have fetishized blackamore decor forever. She KNEW what she was doing.

She's choosing to marry into an outdated institution. She knows what she's signing up for.

R50 "Lower rung" doesn't do it justice. Her husband is the second son of the fourth son of George V. And because he married her (a catholic) he is removed from the succession.

I definitely believe it was intentional. I am biracial myself, but oddly enough i'm not bothered by it. I think that woman is very bold for doing that, knowing her father was a Nazi and knowing that she has a history of doing this.Let's be honest, she's very old and she's royalty, she thinks she's better than all of us anyways and she's just not as able (or as willing) to hide her contempt for us, unlike the other royals. Because of this I kind of respect her. I do feel sorry for Meghan, how awful for her to marry into this family where you will always be made to feel like shit.

Why is she such a bitch all the time, r29? Aside from the usual, she's a royal, entitlement etc. Is she just a miserable asshole or is she one of those "I can has trolling is hilarious for the lulz" types who immediately gets wounded when you threaten to punch her teeth down her throat "because it was only a bit of fun".

R23 zero years. That’s how long. Slavery has never been legal in Britain. It was put into law by Henry VIII. That’s why you never see images of slave field hands in historical movies, because there weren’t any. There haven’t been slaves in Britain since the Romans left. Slavery in British foreign territories started in 1640, long after the US started being colonized.

R39 the word niggardly has no racist meaning. Really. Try a dictionary once in a while. It is an old English word meaning stingy, it came to Middle English via the Scandinavian Swedish word nygg. Your offended sensibilities can be unclenched.

I have no personal knowledge of Pushy but everything I’ve ever read about her makes me believe this was a not so subtle dig. She has form for being a cunt. I read somewhere that Lizzie dislikes her and refers to her as ‘our Val’, short for Valkyrie.

New DL Fave, Princess Michael of Kent!

Jealous of my insouciant cuntiness, bitches?

Don't worry about it, Sooty.

That's "Kent"—with an E.

I happen to love Marie-Christine but I’ll admit that wearing a black moor brooch was pretty tone-deaf to the times. However in the scheme of things she’s pretty irrelevant: she’s the wife of The Queen’s cousin. Her cousin isn’t even THE Duke of Kent, he’s a cadet line and doesn’t even get a state salary. After Charles succeeds HM people like the Kents won’t matter at all. The focus will be on Charles and his brood only, and Meghan will be a part of that. Marie-Christine will need to pick up more speaking engagements or write more books.

Dear R23. Here is an easy-to-understand video

Princess Michael needs to write or plagarize more books?

How sad the lovely Princess had to be subjected to that vile Conrad Black who is an ex-con.

Has anyone read any of Princess Michael's books? Are they any good?

I actually liked "Crowned in a Far Country: Portraits of Eight Royal Brides", R66.

Princess Michael of CUNT.

Thanks, R67.

[quote] it's a rather impressive piece of work.

Oh, she definitely is.

Agree with R67, that book was pretty good. Light reading you can finish in a few hours.

She's a whore, and her pussy stinks.

How can Meghan get even or show her up? She needs to stand up to these dried old cunts if she's going to cut the brakes on Wills and Kate's royal carriage and be KWEEN someday!

The author of that article better never go to Miami then. Blackamoor jewelry is beloved of older Cuban women,something to do with guarding against the evil eye or whatnot. I doubt meghan even noticed it.

....

Why dose she have a man's name?

[quote]Of all the brooches she could have worn on that particular day, she chose that one, she didn't have to, but she did.

And you know that bitch isn't hurting for jewelry. She did it on purpose, and it's outrageous that she's such a fucking cunt. She's always been a cunt, but this is kicking it up a notch.

Please, England isn't Cuba you idiot!

I'm not worried about Meghan, she strikes me as someone who'll get these so called royal assholes together in a heartbeat. She's sweet but I believe Meghan is a very tough cookie. she knows exactly what she's getting herself into. She's going to be fine.

Is there a dramatic moment in film or TV that might capture the essence of the ensuing showdown???

R76, she is the wife of Prince Michael, hence she is called the Princess Michael.

[R53] Prince Michael was reinstated to the line of succession on 26 March 2015 with the successful passing of the Succession to the Crown Act 2013 and is now 45th in line.

OP, there are many more important things in life. You need to let it go.

I knew her in the early 2000’s when she was palling around with the ultimate reprobate Robert Devorik. She is as repulsive as you imagine and then some. Ugh.

Again--who the hell is she and why does she matter?

R84 here. Sorry, Roberto.

Von Reibnitz is the original princess pushy. She is a cunt's cunt.

R85 she doesn’t matter. I think that’s the central tragedy of her life.

Princess Michael comes from a long line of infamous Nazis . Her father was also a loud mouth embarrassment!

Meghan has her work cut out for her. Not being from a professional black family...and the white side of her family appears to be white trash, something that always terrifies the black bourgeoisie, that is their sons bringing home an ordinary white girl. Meghan is an actress, Joan River's maintained that actors were American Royalty ..what a joke...many actors on the red carpet worked in a supermarket two years before hitting it big in the movies...well, whatever it's ridiculous....all of Meghan's baggage could cost her some points later.

If she were smart she would chose the reticence of the black bourgeoisie...even Mrs. Obama didn't go that route... There are photos of Alexander Pushkin's grand daughter just before the Russian Revolution, ...because the Pushkins frequented noble circles, they were more inclined to embrace the values and demeanor of those circles...photos revealed that they were low key and tasteful...at least that's how they looked from their photos. There were/are white Europeans who claim Pushkin ancestry...some ironically were South African.

We should wish Meghan the best of luck, she's going to need it.... She's not the first... African blood flows through many in European nobility, as does the blood of a maid or butler...it would have been interesting to have seen Diana's reaction...after all she was an aristocrat!

A Royal Princess in Liechtenstein (another woman of color) is far more low-key in appearance and to get along with her Royal in-laws...ski trips etc.

She has an interesting family tree. On her mother’s side she is descended from various princely houses in the former Holy Roman Empire. On her father’s side they were German barons, she herself was born a baroness.

After seeing so many threads like this where someone posts an article about race, trans, whatever and the first several replies are "the female SJWs have ruined everything and besides Blackamoor art is flattering, how do stupid blacks not know this," I've decided DL is populated with a few alt-righties deliberately spamming the place.

You see it on Twitter, too -- alt-right trolls who share a thread in their little chatrooms, and get a whole bunch of replies from their fellow trolls backing them up.

There's probably some troll chatroom where one guy obsessed with DL posts his trollbait links.

Liechtenstein princes and princesses aren’t royal, they’re ‘princely’ which is great and higher than ‘noble’ but they’re not royal. They use Serene Highness not Royal Highness.

Nevertheless Princess Angela made a good catch with that Liechtenstein prince, that family is loaded. They’re richer the Windsors.

Princess Michael of Kent is a cunt. In fact, that is the only thing I know about her; that most of the royal family barely tolerates her, because she is a loathsome cunt. Her reputation seemed to soften quite a bit with time, but I would not give her the benefit of the doubt.

Princess Pushy's gonna make herself as unpopular with the new generation as with the old.

^^^she’ll be a nobody once Charles becomes king. Whatever she says won’t matter, her and her husband and the rest of the Queen’s cousins are going to be cut loose.

She's long been known and praised as a cunt here on DL. The people claiming otherwise are newbies and interlopers. We had her number years ago.

Dear DLers, here's something that will improve your lives without having to do Sweet FA. The following quote from this thread read: "...she reportedly told a group of black customers in a West Village, NYC restaurant to..." Do you see the word "REPORTEDLY"???????? THAT, children, means this is an unsubstantiated quote. Furthermore, the quote is being used to cast bad things onto Marie Christine. I am no great supporter of inappropriate behaviour. I do object to BS like this being taken as gospel because it's in print or online.

That's my comment. Consider it my first and last PSA. Before you believe anything to be true, look at it from different angles [I was going to write 'angels', just to stir the pot]. And lastly, before I dissolve back into the noodles, imagine everything you've said and done since age 13 was available for global viewing. WHAT WOULD THE WAIRLD think of you?

The Queen knew about it before she wore it. Otherwise, P M would have been raked over the Royal coals. She was once despatched by The Queen to a funeral and told to use a 'black' bag as an accessory. She used a black bag with gold clasps. Next day a memo from Her Majesty to P M read, "I say black I mean black. Not a black bag with gold clasps."

Everything gets signed off by the palace, I’m sure that brooch was vetted beforehand.

Princess Michael is a Nazi whore.

Oh good god do you really think they have to give Lizzie a quick ring a ding and let her know what they’re wearing? Ludicrous.

The Queen quietly put her in her place not long after her marriage in , saying "Oh, she's much too grand for us."

^ That sounds like second-hand gossip

This Hungarian whore would still be selling her pussy and doing anal fisting granny porn, if she had not married Prince Michael of Kent.

I feel so sorry for Meghan. The media was awful to Diana, for pete's sake, and she was English and posh and not mixed-race. Imagine the nastiness they'll heap on poor Meghan.

^The media was used by Diana. She manipulated the media every day from the moment she got involved with Chuck. She thought she could keep them in line and not report on her many affairs but she miscalculated. Live by the sword die by the sword.

She went on a Brazilian talkshow and spoke about how wonderful colonial Brazil was and called the Brazilian slaves wonderful laborers. Brazilian slavery was 10 times more brutal and larger than the US.

R107 She says that from 3:20 to 4:35

Princess Michael of Kent is Capricorn. How does wearing that brooch contribute to her ambitions and steadily climbing the mountain top?

Princess Pushy 1 and Princess Pushy 2.

TOTALLY WEIRD that the Daily Mail isn't 'covering' this.

Are blackamoors the jewelry equivalent of lawn jockeys?

She's made racist remarks in the past. Nothing new and no one should be surprised when you remember her father was an authentic Nazi.

Don't worry about it, Raghead.

The Royals are not coy about their bigotry and racism.

[quote] I feel so sorry for Meghan. The media was awful to Diana, for pete's sake, and she was English and posh and not mixed-race. Imagine the nastiness they'll heap on poor Meghan.

Why would they be? They have been supernice to Kate Middleton.

[quote] I feel so sorry for Meghan.

Oh, me too! Her life is so hard.

Waaaiitt! The Royal Family has already assigned Sparkles' meeting with "Princess" Michael of Kent? What's next, Sparkles' vacationing with the "Princesses" Eugenie, Beatrice, and Monaco's Princess Stephanie?

Oh, Shit! Run, Sparkle, Run! It's not going to get any better from here!

Perhaps Tracey Ullman can give her a treatment.

As usual, people finding something where there is nothing in order to make something out of it.

Look, the girl is marrying someone who thought it was alright to dress up in a Nazi uniform one Halloween about 10 years ago. Obviously, making poor choices runs rampant in that family.

R120 We have to whine about something..

This woman is batshit, this what she said in 2004

I'm not racist, says princess, I even pretended to be 'half-caste'

"I even pretended years ago to be an African, a half-caste African, but because of my light eyes I did not get away with it, but I dyed my hair black," Princess Michael said.

One hundred and twenty plus replies in, and it's OK that Harry wore a Nazi uniform to a costume party? Oh wait, he's a hot ginge. This is Datalounge. Nevermind.

Racist bitch.

R124 if you actually read Datalounge you would know it was a tasteless costume party he went to, and that was the point - some asshole just snapped some pics of him and sold them - and two, he was young and sheltered. He isn't a Nazi. And he got in trouble for it. That's why no one cares about your Whataboutism fallacy. The Princess in this case knew what she was doing and has a habit of loving that she is a royal, and seems to think British colonialism was a good thing, and therefore this little statement jewelry from her was an intentional affront. She's a cunt. No amount of "but but look over here! Whatabout this!!" is going to change that.

If she wasn't already shown to be a total racist, perhaps I would be more inclined to believe it was supposed to be complimentary, but I am sure it was another "go back to the colonies" moment.

[quote]Slavery has never been legal in Britain. It was put into law by Henry VIII. That’s why you never see images of slave field hands in historical movies, because there weren’t any. There haven’t been slaves in Britain since the Romans left.

Well, not strictly true. Serfdom was outlawed in 1574. Bonded labour was a thing for a very long time and led to the Peasants' Revolt. It was slavery without importation. A few black Africans were brought to the UK to work as servants. I don't think they had much choice in the matter but were treated less brutally than those in the US.

R126 Harry may have been sheltered growing up. But that Nazi costume was completely tasteless. There's no excuse for that. Aren't the privileged well educated? He knew better than to where something like that.

She usually vacations in South Africa with her family quietly mourning the passing of apartheid...

[quote] she’ll be a nobody once Charles becomes king. Whatever she says won’t matter, her and her husband and the rest of the Queen’s cousins are going to be cut loose.

The Queen subsidizes her rent on her Kensington Palace Apartment

It's like the brooch is saying 'Hey, there's something I'd like to broach'.

In that photo she looks like an older version of the recent Katie Holmes . Wtf?

Megan has an American high school bitch face. I imagine her response to the broach would be something like 'ewww like what a tasteless broach princess. ...like ewww...like we are sooo not gonna be friends.'

Don't be jealous of my beauty, horz!

'Oh my gaaaad. ....like wow.....like oh my gaaad '

Megan is far too wrapped up in her little high school fantasy come true to notice. She'll soon come down to earth when reality sinks in. I give this marriage 5 years tops.

[quote]But that Nazi costume was completely tasteless. There's no excuse for that

It was a tasteless costume party, dipshit. You've probably never bitched about a costume in your life before desperately trying to win this thread.

Stupid racist bitch did it deliberately, evil ugly twat.

I am confused. I always thought the Blackamoors were quite elegant. I thought that they, while not royalty, were certainly on an elevated level of society in their time. In New Orleans, some of the grandest Garden District homes have Blackamoor figures.

They certainly are not analogous to lawn jockeys. That is beyond ridiculous.

r139 I agree. It was definitely a planned swipe a Meghan. My cousin in married to a Brit, and the cunt is one of the cruelest people I've ever met.

Here's something Meghan can wear to their next meeting.

She would immediately win the hearts of millions.

Mother!

LOL R14

R141. Oh yes whereas the Americans are lovely, totally unracist people.....who welcome huddled masses only to segregate them. Also you lot are so sane and rational haha

It's important for Meghan to know her place upfront.

HRH has undertaken the necessary task in as gracious a manner as possible.

r56,

[quote]Princess Michael of Kent* became known as the Pushy Princess after insisting that Thorn EMI (a record company) send her 10 color television sets for her servants' quarters before she'd attend a cocktail party. Th TV sets arrived--and so did the Princess-for-hire.

[quote]She showed a basic understanding of the commerce for royal patronage. Walking by Mozafarian Jewelers on Beauchamp Place in London, she spotted a decorative ivory bear in the window. "It cost $1,000," said the owner's daughter, "and she wanted it. So my father said 'Wrap it up. for her.'" The Princess walked out with the fanciful object, and her personal secretary sent a thank-you note, which the owner then displayed in a gold frame.

[quote]*The Queen and Prince Philip refer to the six-foot blond princess as "Our Val" because of her strong resemblance to the Valkyries, warrior maidens of German myth. When asked by a magazine what he would give his worst enemy for Christmas, Viscount Linley (son of Lord Snowdon and Princess Margaret) quipped "Dinner with Princess Michael."

OOh r31, I love your shade!

The Crown Series 5, Episode 6: "The Blackamoor War"

Miss Oprah Winfry as Meghan Markle.

Miss Meryl "I Saw Nothin!" Streep as HRH The Princess Michael of Kent.

R124 it was a "bad taste" party so he wore a nazi costume. One of the guests took a photo, sold it to the papers. The press ran the story without ever explaining why he was dressed like that. It wasn't the smartest decision but he was very young.

The Princess on the other hand is a notorious bitch and attention seeker. As the two posters on here who have met can her attest, she did it on purpose. No doubt.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Of course deep down Harry must realize that his future son and daughter in law will be just as irrelevant and despised as the Michaels of Kent once he and William are gone.

R124 While the vast majority can agree on racism and condemn it, when it comes to anti-Jewish bigotry and hatred, it is excused with "mitigating circumstances" or "didn't mean any harm", reconfirming just how entrenched and acceptable it is. See this entire thread for details.

British people.

So ironic...a site full of usually racist Americans (check out many threads..you lot are obsessed with ethnicity) all feigning disgust over a broach, and wagging a disapproving finger at British Royalty for being insensitive haha oh the delicious irony.

As if many of you are really offended by this...please get real.

She is a Silisean grandee, isn't she?

[quote]a site full of usually racist Americans (check out many threads..you lot are obsessed with ethnicity) all feigning disgust over a broach, and wagging a disapproving finger at British Royalty for being insensitive haha oh the delicious irony.

Americans love finger-pointing, moral outrage/superiority and finger wagging. Since DL is ostensibly a gay site, it's not their fingers they're wagging.

R158. Are you English like me?

Princess Michael had a Russian lover who was murdered and she was accused of plagiarism.

A a brooch cannot be racist. It is an inanimate object. The brooch itself is an iconic design.

[quote]Princess Michael had a Russian lover who was murdered and she was accused of plagiarism.

We've ALL had Russian lovers who were murdered. But charging dear Marie-Christine with plagiarism for chasing slav cock is going a little too far.

Oh, brother. When the racists start pulling out the attempts to disprove you via grammar, you know they're desperate.

R161, we all understand what "racist brooch" means, just like we all know that if the OP had said "brooch used as a vehicle to express racist attitudes" you'd just come up with some other lame excuse to make it seem okay.

Speaking of definitions, dear heart, all major dictionaries list "blackamoor" as "dated" and/or "offensive."

Most of you on this site are doing this Meghan chick bidding. I don't even think she cares so much about a brooch but most of you are so worked up. I am sure she more happy to be marrying into that racist family that she could care less.

R163, you really do not get when your leg is being pulled, do you?

[quote]When asked by a magazine what he would give his worst enemy for Christmas, Viscount Linley (son of Lord Snowdon and Princess Margaret) quipped "Dinner with Princess Michael."

Ha!

Didn’t Vanity Fair do a story about what a bitch she is?

[quote](check out many threads..you lot are obsessed with ethnicity)

Irony proof.

[quote]all major dictionaries list "blackamoor" as "dated" and/or "offensive."

Not the Breitbart New World Dictionary (paid for and distibuted by the Mercers) that all good online Schutzstaffel refer to.

Never forget their greasy, gay Brit put DL on their Monitor-Invade-Disrupt list long before he started creating college "protests," dreaming of fellating Orange, or promoting pedophilia.

I wish I could personally thank her for destroying Blackamoor jewelry. Dealing in vintage jewelry for some time, I have never heard it referred to as racist. It was created as a form of art and may have seen it's time but now no one will be able to wear it now without being thought of as racist.

as far as the way Princess Micheal comes across, she seems like an idiot so wonder if she meant it to be racist at all.

but thanks to whoever pointed it out and made it into a racism thing. it used to be just beautiful highly sought after jewelry

I don't know any rich old women that wear a brooch like that- just like most of them gave up stone-martin stoles.

Good for Princess Michael for doing what we were all thinking. This American halfbreed has no business marrying into the Royal family. I blame William for starting the trend by marrying that commoner.

I'm off to meet Harry's bride to be, whom I understand is half-nigger -- won't it be a laugh if I pin a black to my lapel?

[QUOTE]as far as the way Princess Micheal comes across, she seems like an idiot so wonder if she meant it to be racist at all.

Ignorance is no excuse for racism. And I’d argue that she did it on purpose so really there’s no ignorance case to be made as far as I’m concerned.

I don't think in Italy it was considered racist. In this context, it is.

This is why they need to make a third series of "The Windsors" and introduce a Princess Michael character.

Meghan is happy to be the white passing biracial marrying into that family that she won't let a brooch stay in her way. You guys are doing the most, Meghan probably can't wait to be referred to as a dutchess. Ambitious sparkle does not appreciate you guys trying to mess things up for her.

What's with women named Michael?

With that thing she's wearing on her head, you noticed the brooch?

[quote]Meghan is happy to be the white passing biracial marrying into that family

English racism at its finest. "You have to pass as white to marry into the royal family, and that's what this cunning mulatto is doing, sullying the purity of our monarchy."

R177 - his commoner wife has to take his name (eg. it's Princess Michael of Kent, not Princess Marie-Christine of Kent). Only women BORN INTO the Royal Family get to use their own name (eg. Princess Beatrice of York). Women who MARRY INTO the Royal Family are screwed!

She's a gold digger alright...she apparently moved to London to bag a lord. Looks like she struck the jackpot. Cunning whore!

Although she’d never admit it publicly, the Queen must be disappointed her family have sunk so low. The scandals, divorces and now this. She must be quietly wishing for a swift departure from this earth.

R177 - also, if the Queen doesn't bestow a Dukedom on Harry, Meghan will be Princess Henry of Wales. How delicious!

R179. Yes as opposed to your American racism where your cops just shoot blacks in broad daylight.

[quote]Good for Princess Michael for doing what we were all thinking. This American [bold]halfbreed[/bold] [...]

LOL at this and similar comments, just open, leering racism. The sun never sets on the British Empire because there's always open sewage somewhere!

R184, whataboutism at its finest! And of course we all know who seeded racism in the US -- remind us, who first bought Africans in the 1600s and 1700s and brought them to the colonies and treated them worse than dogs?

It's not the fact she's mixed race so much as she's a vulgar American. Yes, the Queen must be dismayed it's come to this. I'm sure she'd rather have Diana back than this Yank opportunist.

Meghan Markle will become Princess Harry? 😂

r185 I agree with most of what you're saying, but the Dutch were actually the first to bring African slaves to the American colonies.

isn't racism ridiculous. if you cut open a white person and you cut open a black person they are exactly the same inside. There is no difference in our brains or our organs.

I read about a teacher that taught her kids about racism. She would take a brown egg and a white egg and break them both open. She showed the kids that they were exactly alike inside.

So we base our racism strictly on A COLOR. nothing more. so ridiculous

[quote]It's not the fact she's mixed race so much

[quote]so much as she's a vulgar American.

Your nation grovels so much to the US that you've become a complete embarrassment -- why not just make it official and make all the royals American too?

I feel so sorry for the Queen. ..for shame. Still the old dear is 91 and probably doesn't know what day it is half the time.

The Queen is very sharp. How dare you.

[quote]but the Dutch were actually the first to bring African slaves to the American colonies.

Brought to a very willing market of British buyers.

R191 we have to grovel darling...your mad president could nuke us. You are the psychos of the western world.

We are talking about the tacky Princess Michael.

The only thing America is good for is producing movies and hot tanned porn hunks.

R187 - only if the Queen doesn't give him a Dukedom (which she is expected to do), Meghan will take his name and title (eg. Princess Henry of Wales - Henry being Harry's real name). She won't be Princess Meghan of Wales.

What about that giant broach on top of her head?

It is Strange r177........

Yikes. That's not the kind of thing you can do by accident.

r197 Oh, go have your rotten British teeth fixed. They couldn't have a porn industry in the U.K.: the guys are too ugly.

Why does a lowly cousin get to live on the palace anyway? It was on purpose - if that brooch was any higher on her jacket it would be on her ear.

Meghan and Harry's kids have a shot at not looking like horses. That, alone, is good reason for the Queen to bless the marriage. Princess Michael seems like Margaret, but even more clueless.

Why does every great institution need to be sullied by common muck? This obsession with having Presidents and now Royals who “are just like us” is nauseating.

I hope this Markel girl doesn't take to wearing baseball caps backwards. A peculiar trait in that part of the colonies. When I was there there were so many caps and white socks I thought it was the 80s again.

They both have long faces. Her eyes aren't as close set though.

It’s about time they got some black blood in the royal family.

Maybe she was wearing it ironically?

R206 Good, stay home next time. When I was in the U.K. I thought if I saw one more cable stitched sweater I was going to vomit.

Why does the royal family have to have black blood? Why does everything these days need to be multi cultural?

[quote]Why does the royal family have to have black blood?

Why do you have to be such a fucking idiot?

When Akiane was TEN years old she painted this portrait. I see that she has changed the explanation of it as she is now older but at the time she explained that this was how God showed her we all were. Mixed.

The Queen may live for another ten years but there’s no guarantee, her mother lucked out. But even so, her reign is drawing to a close and Charles is being given more influence. Once The Queen is gone and Charles is king, these Kents and Gloucesters will fade in obscurity. Why should Charles support his mother’s cousins? It’s HIS brood that will be front and center. He and Camilla, William and Kate and their children, Harry and Meghan and their children. Yorks, Kents, Gloucesters, thanks for playing. He’ll probably keep the Wessex’s and the Princess Royal around for a bit though. They do a lot of hand shaking and ribbon cuttings, he’ll need some of that kind of help.

I thought Charles got passed over and it was going straight to William?

[quote]but the Dutch were actually the first to bring African slaves to the American colonies.

Muslims were slavers in Africa, Eastern Europe and Asia long before Europeans knew Africa existed. And Africans were just as complicit in the slave trade, turning over enemy tribes and unwanted members of their own tribes to slavers.

Yep slavery is not as straight forward as many think. Those black tribal leaders betrayed they own people. Uh huhhh

R211 it’s so that we can all end up with brown skin and dark eyes eventually. It’s kind of ironic that the master race is the one being bred to extinction.

Jeezuzzzz Does this girl know what she is getting by marrying in to this inbred family? Runnnnn!

Please, R218. Meghan’s kids are gonna be like 25% black and then they’ll end up marrying other white people since their whole world will consist of rich white people. So in this case, the blackness in Meghan’s bloodline is what’s disappearing.

R219 $he know$ all too well!! $$$

The same press outlets that push these non-scandals on us do everything in their power to cover u the real crimes committed by the Royals, and the institutionalized evil done in their name.

There are royal kiddie-fuckers and the press protects them.

You do know the dress was borrowed, no? As for any major jewelry- that belongs to the family. It is merely used while she is in her position.

OP resume sobbing into your tissue, you professional victim you.

R223 my dear, everything is borrowed in this life. Having access to nice things is all that matters. I would love to “borrow” palaces, staff and endless holidays.

Princess Pushy won't be laughing when she has to curtsy to Meghan

My point was, that if she leaves it won't be with tiaras and $50,000 dresses.

R227 "“What we leave behind in this life is the memory of who we were and what we did. An imprint, no more.”

I believe the term you all are looking for is, "tone deaf."

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Do the Kent’s still reside at Kensington Palace? If so they’ll be neighbors! How delicious...

R183 / R231 Please stop trying to make “delicious” a thing. You must live in LA.

[quote]Princess Pushy won't be laughing when she has to curtsy to Meghan

The UK won't put up with the Monarchy much longer once it becomes a white minority nation.

The British people bought that piece of jewelry and everything else that princess wears. Biggest welfare family in the world

R234 nah, they have inherited wealth. Not like the US taxpayer footing the bill for every Trump family member.

Up-thread there was a mention of Pushkin descendants. If I recall correctly, a branch married into the Mitford-Havens and the Mountbattens, so there is already some admixture of African ancestry among these aristocrats. Diana also had an ancestor who was from India. So, come on in Markle and don't let them intimidate you!

[quote]Not like the US taxpayer footing the bill for every Trump family member

You called us racist for pointing out the luxurious lifestyle the Obama family enjoyed (and still do) at taxpayer expense.

Why should the Brits care that she's biracial. My great-uncle said that during WWII, the British women would toss over great looking white American men to dance with black men during the canteens in London.

Princess Michael of Kent looks like the quintessence of CUNT

And her name sounds like a cunt name, even more like "Yolanda Bergman".

That's nothing. Wait until she shows up at the wedding in blackface!

Princess Michael is "very sorry" and the offending piece will be "retired"

Markle, the Elizabeth Warren of Black America.

Is hexadecaroon insensitive? Too soon?

All these eggshells, and me with only two feet. Pity.

[quote]You called us racist

But you are, Blanche

R237, shut the fuck up. The Trump family will cost the taxpayers more in one year than the Obama family cost in 8 years

[quote] What about that giant broach on top of her head?

It's to keep what little brains she has from escaping.

R237 asshole. Go back to Breitbart. The Obamas don't have any more luxurious lifestyle than any other ex-President. It just upsets you cause black folk should all be in the projects, n'est-ce pas?

Ah... just peeking in...

It's turning into that kind of a thread, I see.

Anyone who says the brooch isn’t racist or offensive is either willfully ignorant or lives under a rock

[quote]Dolce & Gabbana Black Figurine Earrings And Dress, Are They Racist?

[quote]In that photo she looks like an older version of the recent Katie Holmes . Wtf?

She looks like Voldemort wearing makeup.

[quote]Gaudy, Sure—But Racist Too? Unpacking Centuries of 'Blackamoor' Art

[quote]The motif emerged as an artistic response to the European encounter with the Moors—dark-skinned Muslims from North Africa and the Middle East who came to occupy various parts of Europe during the Middle Ages. Commonly fixed in positions of servitude—as footmen or waiters, for example—the figures personify fantasies of racial conquest.

[quote]Gaudy by nature, and uncomfortably dated—a bit like the American lawn jockey, or Aunt Jemima doll [...]

Wow, our patron saint Bar Bush better up her cunt game if she wants to compete with this.

r242 Sorry? Sorry? Ha!

Well, that settles it, R249. If the great brains at the Huffington Post says it’s racist, then it’s racist!

Has Azealia Banks commented?

It's spelled "B R O O C H"--there is no "a" in the word, despite its pronunciation.

Thank you.

Diana Vreeland had a famous collection of blackamoor jewelry, mostly from Cartier.

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You don't sound like a black chap.

r256 It is spelled "brooch" darling. Meghan, my dear, ignore what those filthy Royals say. Revel in the lifestyle and have many, many children.

R258 meet R242

Von Riebnitz is aging well.

R138 No more of a dipshit then you are.

ASSHOLE!!!!!!!!!

When Harry and Meghan have their first child, she'll probably give the infant a Gollywog doll as a gift.

It was wrong of her to apologize. A mixed race American piece of trash is marrying into the Royal family.

You have to love all the little more than trailer trash on this thread casting aspersions toward Princess Michael as if they have the slightest idea what they're talking about.

No lie in this thread title.

You Brits may get rid of Europe but you're stuck with this hereditary parasitic class forever. At least we have the chance to rid ourselves of Trump after four years, and certainly eight, but for you it never ends.

This type of jewellery is blatantly racist and needs to be retired also.

Racist art

More racist jewelry that needs to be retired.

the correct spellings of brooch are Brooch OR Broach. both are acceptable

What are the correct pronunciations of brooch and broach? Is it the same? I grew up in rural North Carolina with many elderly aunts and great-aunts who spelled and pronounced it "broach," rhymes with roach. (And they had tons of them.) How is brooch pronounced?

She's got this lined up for next time

r273 both pronounced the same

Thanks, r275.

Maybe Princess Michael might want to reconsider her wedding gift of Aunt Jemima cookie jars.

Dear United Kingdom:

When the fuck are you going to finally kill off these worthless leeches?

Can't make England great again with worthless leeches. Sad!

Looking forward to see what she wears to Meghan's Kwanzaa potluck luncheon.

Meghan's lil' Harry babies will have the same title as Mikey and Co. and they'll be higher up the royal food chain, so what's she putting on airs for?

Side note: Lord Frederick looks like a vampire. Sincerely. He's not unattractive, actually very handsome but also a terrifying looking person.

Will Princess M have to curtsy to the mulatto after the marriage? Will the York cousins? Is Prince M a HRH?

You bet your ass they will!

No r282. The order of precedence is that those who marry in to the family have to curtsy to those born as princesses. So Sparkie will have to curtsy to the Yorkies.

I could've sworn Lord Frederick was openly gay, but then he went and married a woman.

So every painting,sculpture,carving etc that feature black people is racist now ?

Well, I see that Alfred Hitchcock and John Williams were obviously racist. Having the Williams character dress up as a Blackmoor while pretending to be the Cary Grant character. I DEMAND that every copy of TO CATCH A THIEF be destroyed immediately !!!

Bet Princess Michael's groveling public apology was forced on her by Harry. Harry would have insisted on a public apology.

The Queen shoul make Prince Michael the Duke of Winsor. Marie-Christine would become the second Duchess of Winsor. It permanently gets rid of the created Duchy of Uncle David.

Listen, even the article itself describes at as 'racially insensitive. I really think there are other forms of racism more dangerous than a broach that's probably been in the family for generations. I don't agree with fur, but if I was handed one down as an heirloom I would wear it. And if I were meghan I would understand because she probably knows black people but she doesn't have any in the family.

Furthermore, she probably has some thoughts that would be classified as racist. But this is the first significant incident I've heard of.

And to add further, there isn't anyone one race that should be offended by racism so your outrage is not worth more because you are biracial.

R272 you may broach a subject or broach a barrel but you pin a brooch to your clothing. It is not a modern spelling. It is a rarely seen very archaic usage. Please stop encouraging the semi literate, it’s unfair to pretend that it’s perfectly normal spelling. The word is brooch.

R54, I don't believe for a second that you're bi-racial. You're a racist piece of shit who sympathizes with this Nazi cunt.

If Meghan is with Harry, they most certainly will have to curtsey to her.

^maybe. If Lizzie updates the order of precedence again she may decide the spare’s wife isn’t in direct line nor royal by birth so no princess of the blood should curtsy whether Harry is there or not. The non-heirs are always a bit out on a limb.

So is all Blackamoor art now taboo? If you have a pair of antique six foot figures on either side of an opening of a parlor now a sign of racism? Or is it only racism if a black guest should be invited into your home?

I could not disagree more with those who compare the art to lawn jockeys or Mammy dolls. Obviously the latter are poking fun at the "negroes" of a bygone era and they are in no way a representation of the people as a whole. But the elegant Blackamoors are beautiful and in no way denigrate people of color...in fact quite the contrary. I think they are a representation which is extremely romantic and flattering.

If all art which features POC as anything other than sanitized, modern business attired figures we may have assuaged some white guilt, but we also have erased historical representations which are worth remembering.

R295 no one is saying they should be melted down, just not displayed as a symbol of taste on people or in private homes. Museums are where they belong.

Also for the people in the thread lamenting this "sudden" rebranding of the jewelry as racist - just because you, in your bubble, did not know it was offensive to many, does not make it sudden. All you are doing is showing your ignorance when you act like it came out of nowhere.

So you are saying that they should be removed from a private home?

Princess Michael probably "puts her foot in it" more often than we know. This "Broochgate" episode just surfaced because of the object's visibility.

She probably had to scramble back to her royal digs "quick sticks" and clean out a cabinet of dozens other Blackamoor figurines and other "objects d'art" laying about.

Yes, along with your guns and pork rinds, r297.

And no, of course not. But if people display them without context in a private home, they shouldn't be surprised that their guests find them racist or oblivious or both.

I see no real difference between a blackamoor covered in gilt standing next to a fireplace and a lawn jockey standing next to a driveway. Just because one is decorated more expensively doesn’t mean it’s any less offensive.

She may very well have not thought realized that it was offensive. This is a country in which golliwog dolls are still available for purchase. I had a Scots roommate in college and he was horribly inappropriate and could not be made to understand that phrases like “porch monkey” are insensitive at best. His right to use the terms trumped his friends’ feelings and after he lost several friends he began to realize that shit doesn’t play here, at least among the educated classes.

[quote]at least among the educated classes.

The Brit "educated classes" save their derision and contempt for Jews.

Are you serious, r295?

"Beautiful" pieces of racist "art" are still motherfucking racist.

I can't believe there are ignorant ass fags on here defending this.

I think she was fucking with Meghan and being a crazy old bitch.

Come on.

If your friend's grandma wore that to a lunch with your friend's cousin bringing his mixed gf, you'd think "Granny was being a cunt."

R299 you seem to be oblivious of context regarding blackamoor art. They were made by Italians as representations of the Muslim invaders, that is very, very different from a lawn jockey which was made to mock black people.

I wouldn’t have blackamoor art in the house because it could make some people uncomfortable but not because I am oblivious to the history behind it. Just because something has a likeness of a black person does not make it inherently racist.

R304 one should look not just at the original intent of the art but also to what use it is out and to whom it appealed and why. And they do, even the originals, lend themselves to the concept of "Othering" which has taken place throughout history. It can be beautiful and still be racist.

Princess Michael knew what she was doing, the withered old cunt. She's got plenty of jewelry- why wear that?

Fortunately, she'll be dead soon.

There’s something creepy looking about Lord Frederick Windsor.

R304, you are playing the fool. You forgot to include the person wearing or displaying said art and WHY they wear or display it.

Sell your racist shit somewhere else, fool.

“Princess” “Michael” is a loser who will be curtsying to the Duchess soon enough. Am certain Markel didn’t give one fuck and probably thought it was pathetic.

Sorry. Misspelled Meghan’s name.

If not for entertaining stunts like this, what is the royal family good for?

Your moronic witterings are your cross to bear r308, please don’t afflict others with your projected stupidity. Trying too hard to sound like Mr T.

Princess Michael has already established her cunt credentials long ago. This just provides further proof.

Why are the Queen's cousins given such a lavish lifestyle? Huge apartments in Kensington Palace, etc. As cousins and not immediate family, it seems odd and excessive.

Please, some of the current staff (mostly the higher-ups) are living as well as Princess Michael- just on a smaller scale.

Long-term employees can retire to a grace and favour residence free for life, including a car.

R314 - both Prince and Princess Michael used to do lots of public functions on the Queen's behalf over thirty years ago. The Queen probably felt sorry for them and gave them an apartment at Kensington Palace (the Kent family are very poor by royal standards). For many years, the Kensington apartment was a grace and favor arrangement (rent free) but then there was a public outcry and now they pay rent (probably much below what anyone would pay in that posh part of London). They don't do as many royal engagements now that they're older.

SJW outrage porn. MAybe in bad taste but not racist.

Prince Michael of Kent and his wife do not undertake official engagements for The Queen. Whatever events they attend are part of their private business and charities and are not representing the crown. I believe they now pay rent on the Kensington apartment and they had to sell their country place. The other Kents though (Edward and his wife Katherine, and his sister Alexandra) do officially represent The Queen at events. Katherine (The Duchess of Kent) is mostly retired now and doesn’t go to many functions. She converted to Catholicism, separated unofficially from her husband, and was teaching music and religion for a while using the name Katherine Kent.

Since brother Edward got the title Duke of Kent and the properties, Michael got some of the best jewels as a consolation prize. Marie Christine has some beautiful very valuable jewels that used to belong to Princess Marina, Michaels mother including two spectacular tiaras. She also has a very valuable ruby brooch that she got as a wedding gift from the ailing Duchess of Windsor.

At first it looked like she was wearing the shrunken head of an actual African native.

R301 bullshit. Never heard of the Rothschilds and a Mountbatten?

They pay approximately $15,000 US rent now monthly and the Duchess of Windsor left her earrings- not a brooch.

They sell these baubles in Venice.

Meghan should buy this one and wear it next time she sees Pushy, the expression is very 'bitch, puhlease'.

She received a ruby brooch from The Duchess R321, and the brooch wasn’t left to her, it was given as a wedding gift.

Maybe she got earrings later on, left to her. But it’s a fact she got a ruby brooch, which was previously part of a necklace worn by The Duchess.

Why would princess Michael curtsy to Meghan. Bitch please. I am not even a fan of the royal family. You guys are really making this Meghan chick overrated.

R317, everything is racism immediately these days. No bad taste or prejudice, nope, everything is racist.

I'd like to see a link about the Duchess giving a ruby brooch- it's not in any of the books I have, which are many.

And when the Queen saw the earrings, Princess Michael was told never to wear them in HM presence again.

I'm super worried the Princess of Kent is going to shrink Meghan's head and use it for some Illuminati voodoo. They do shit like that.

Princess Michael=white TRASH garbage!

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Marie-Christine, Princess Michael is delightful. Classy and intelligent. Watch the interview. She's diplomatic, elegant and very well-spoken. She is extremely well-versed about European history. She's fascinating, witty, charming and quite interesting. She appears to be knowledgeable with a world-view understanding.

True, r331. She's sparkling in that interview. But such qualities are lost on the triggered, screeching SJW perpetual victims.

I've seen this youtube a while ago, r331. Her entire manner is so pretentious and it diminishes her efforts to appear intellectual. On top of that, while I adore the British accent, Princess Michael's is annoying.

When Conrad Black asks her to dish on Kate and other royals, she gets on her high horse, releases the full display of cultivated haughtiness and condescension through her aristocratic mannered vocal intonation and comes off as so utterly full of herself.

Not surprised Diana (and Fergie) avoided Princess Michael at dinner parties.

R331, all of those things could be said about Gore Vidal yet he was still an asshole who I would not have wanted to be sat next to at dinner.

I never heard of this princess Michael woman until this whole blackamoore jewelry situation. What a character she is. Just how many royals are there. Because this woman was hidden from me.

What she's wearing is a Blackamoor brooch. “Blackamoor” is a genre of art or jewelry originating in 16th century Venice that has been criticized for promoting imagery that is considered racist. Many blackamoor figures portray exoticized images of servants and slaves of African descent. Apparently these brooches were popular with wealthy women at one time, but wearing them today seems pretty awful. They're really ugly pieces of jewelry but I guess it was a style that appealed to some back in the day. Anyway, she's saying the brooch was a gift and that she'd worn it many times before, so it wasn't exactly a statement on Sparkle.

Speaking of Blackamoor brooches....I remember an incident with one in a biography of Pamela Harriman, the infamous gold digging man pleaser who nabbed several rich husbands. One of the husbands was Leland Hayward, the Hollywood agent and producer. Upon first meeting his daughter Brooke she pinned a Blackamoor brooch on her and told her never to sell it because it was "valuable." Brooke thought it was bizarre that she would give her an expensive piece of jewelry at their first meeting and what a piece of jewelry! The civil rights movements was heating up and she gave her new stepdaughter a brooch depicting a stereotypical image of a black person. Brooke got the impression it was a piece of jewelry she didn't want anymore (maybe because she wanted to avoid being seen as a racist?), so she handed it down to her. At any rate, Brooke eventually sold the distasteful piece of jewelry, probably for less than what it was worth. She sold it for $500.

I want to read her historical novels.

Here you go, r335. Everything you always wanted to know about the British Royal Family but were afraid to ask.

She loves animals too, bitches.

In the interview at R331 she wrinkles her nose and denies knowing anything about the character southern Germans and says with indignation “I’ve been to Munich ten times!” as if she hadn’t a clue about them.

I like her but that made me chuckle, I’m pretty sure ten visits to a city is more than enough to get an idea what the people are like.

I can't WAIT for her to wear the lawn jockey earrings!

My ensemble for the wedding will be in shades of high yellow.

R340 what people? All of them? All denizens of one locale share exactly the same characteristics? Is this genetic or formed by environmental factors? What if you only moved there 6 months ago?

So what will become of the Queen's cousins after she passes and Charles does his 'trimming the fat' thing? Will they have to go into council housing and register for the dole or the old age pension?

Just for shits and giggles I went over to LSA to read their perspective over this tempest in a teapot.

Surprisingly there was a mixture of opinions on the Blackamoor images(both in statuary and jewelry) but the one thing which nearly every of the hundreds of posts pointed out is that Princess Michael is a dried up, wrinkly prune faced old white hag. I was genuinely shocked because I didn't think she looks bad for her age.

R345 -Since black dont crack, that's the go to diss from the ebony goddesses of LSA.

You should have seen when she invited Meghan back to her home.

Engagements will be cut, but the crusty oldies will live out the rest of their lives as they do now.

It's family like the wicked step-sisters that have to worry. No one is supporting those hideous cunts for another 50 years.

You kweens are so predictable. Over 300 posts about some jewelry.

It will be interesting to see what "trimming the fat" will actually mean when Charles takes over. The York (Gorgon) sisters are going to be SOL because as r348 said they're not going to be living the Royal Free Ride for 50 years if Charles has anything to say about it. I'm sure they're very nervous.

The York sisters should threaten to do reality TV. Charles will be glad Ti keep them in the Royal fold then. But Sarah would be all for reality TV. Especially because of the paycheck. Charles wouldn't want the embarrassment of something like that brought to the royal family.

They would not be allowed by the Palace to do reality tv.

Sarah has already been such an embarrassment- it's a miracle that she is even still on the fringes.

Cheating while pregnant, sketchy charities, "business advisors", working out of a bar, selling pics to tabloids, and whatever else she cooks up with Andrew. She's lucky he's the Queen's favorite.

Underestimate Princess Michael of Kent at your own peril. This lady is positioning herself for bigger things. I, for one, am intrigued.

354 replies about a royal member that wore a brooch. My goodness, most of you need a life. I don't understand why most of you are so worked up over this Meghan chick. If most of you were on fire this chick would not give a fuck.

R355 - You came to the thread and posted. You lose!

At her late stage in life r354? I’m agog. Simply agog.

The only reason why Markle is going on about being black is because of PC and she knows she's gonna win sympathy points. I don't trust the bitch. She uses her race and heritage to get ahead, and make a point when she has never experienced what the "black" experience many black Americans face in this country. The only time she talks about being black is when her mom is brought up, or when she's talking about how hard it is is to be "black". Her first marriage ended in divorce barely in two years and she's getting married to a man that she's known for only an year. She's claims to be a feminist and an activist but the only thing on her record is the letter she wrote to that cleaning product company when she was 12. Harry needs to watch his back-this woman's no good.

“no one is saying they should be melted down, just not displayed as a symbol of taste on people or in private homes. Museums are where they belong.”

One of the saddest things I’ve ever read regarding jewelry and art. Next are the book burnings.

r 358 is bitter because she never amounted to anything.

R352 if Charles is going to cut them out. Then how dose the palace have any say in what the York sisters do. They have to earn a living. What are they going to do for money? If they won't be headlining members of the monarchy.

The palace can't really stop them from doing reality TV can they? Their mother Sarah had a reality show back in 2011 on OWN. You know the Oprah Winfrey network. I'm just curious about that.

Sorry, not sorry.

Sorry, not sorry.

What a Cunt!

This reminds me when, a few years ago, an Australian department store used kneeling blackamoors throughout the store for floral arrangements for a spring display. Everything was fine until a *white* American tourist rocked up and kicked up a stink. The store ended up marbelising them with gold paint!

[quote]no one is saying they should be melted down, just not displayed as a symbol of taste on people or in private homes. Museums are where they belong.

The smug idiocy of this is beyond worth satire. The individual exhibits zero knowledge of blackamoor art, which almost always was executed in a manner which enobled the native. T'was such, for example at the Romanov court. You can see the American negros dressed in their grand court uniforms in the far left corner of this photo of the Tsar opening the Duma. The fools would no doubt label this photo racist too.

Even I can't with this bitch... Someone sent my sugar-daddy a horse turd for Christmas!

He calls it "Louise"

Who gives a rats ass what the bitch wore. Get a fucking life, OP. I'm tri-racial so I think I'm above you on the victim chain. Are you that damn fragile? Grow the hell up!

I don’t think the Yorks will he left out in the cold. Charles may chose not to continue funding them but that doesn’t prevent QEII from leaving them a large legacy at her death. She’s beyond wealthy in her own right, outside of the possessions of the crown, and can leave her granddaughters whatever she likes. I have a feeling she’s aware of Charle’s intentions and will act accordingly to insure the futures of these to whom she is reportedly quite close to.

[quote]beyond worth satire.

What?

[quote]the American negros

Also what?

I don't give a shit about the history of blackamoor art. It's fucking ugly. Truly, horribly ugly. It is so tacky looking. I am laughing my ass off that some previous poster says they own some of this shit and actually display it in their home. What a horror their house must be. I wouldn't be able to stop laughing if I saw this ugly shit in someone's home

I hope Meaghan doesn't "stiff upper lip" this gaffe and forces Harry to "do something, Harry!" Liek demand she not be invoted to their wedding. Or something similar in retribution.

Then I hope what results is a full-blown scene in public/media, setting the rest of The Firm against her in all her future royal endeavours.

Most of you need to get a life because this Meghan chick is getting hers. Stop doing her bidding or shall I say defending her. Most of you attacking people who see through this Meghan chick bs shows how sorry most of you are. Meghan is probably somewhere laughing at those idiots getting worked up over her future in laws brooch so called controversy.

R372 You are completing lacking in culture by the sound of your post. You have no idea how many grand and elegant homes feature Blackamoor art. It is gorgeous and as the poster up thread said, much of it shows the Black Moors in regal garb and jewels. There is absolutely nothing "stereotypical" about it.

I'm with R372 That shit is ugly. I don't care about the argument about whether it's racist or not, it's just tacky looking. But whatever, tastes differ. Decorate your house and bejewel yourself however you want.

r374 one could say the same about those needlessly attacking her.

r367 you should really read "Orientalism" by William Said before you get quite so huffy about certain types of art being considered, in today's society, offensive. Clearly a leading scholar such as yourself should already be familiar with it.

Andrew is the self-styled "Factory of Ideas" guy in the family. I'm sure he's racking in the millions right now so he won't be needing any coins from "mummy."

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Well actually Andrew’s been doing that for years. I follow him on Twitter and for years he (or his assistants) Tweet about something called ‘Pitch at Palace’ where I think entrepreneurs can present their ideas. I think it’s sort of like a non-televised version of the “Shark Tank” show.

White people love shit like that blackamoor jewelry. It reminds them of the days of Jim Crow and apartheid. They long for it.

I think she's fabulous.

She kinda looks like Julie Andrews from the princess diaries.

R379. R381. Prince Andrew certainly opens himself up to scrutiny no matter what he does. Some of it warranted, some not. Same with Sarah, the daughters or any other extended member of the family not part of the "senior" or more important inner group. However, as a member (or former member) of the royal family, you're often criticized for working because royalty doesn't "work" other than serve in the military or do charity events. So then you end up not working--or you end up doing unconventional work that may not may not pay. It's a weird Catch-22 in which the lesser royals find themselves. They have to carve out something, but then that "something" doesn't often pay.

Same with Princess Michael. Aside from the broach controversy, she said in one of the up-post interviews, she came into the royal family as an interior decorator, but quickly learned or was told that it was not proper for a member of the royal family family to "work in trade." Not knowing what to do, she was also interested in history and thought she would try her hand at becoming an historian author, in which she has fairly succeeded, but books are few and far between. But becoming an author is no fucking easy task. Not everyone has the talent to write. Think what you will of many of these lesser royals, many of them are discourage from working, but yet have little avenues to pursue to make a living.

[quote]She's claims to be a feminist and an activist but the only thing on her record is the letter she wrote to that cleaning product company when she was 12.

r358, she's got a better feminist record than most actresses, a UN Women advocate and an ambassador for World Vision, and has been ambassador for One Young World. She's spoken out for developing countries, clean water, and gender equity--and against modern slavery. She had her own GOOP kind of website that had female empowerment as part of its editorial mission. Seems to have done more than the minimum with the platform and resources available to her.

I'm sorry, what have you done?

Even Katherine has to curtsy to those two horse faced heifers Andrew and Fergie produced. That is until William becomes King. Then the two sows will have to grovel before Katherine. Unless Charles and William modernize the Monarchy and get rid of all that bowing and scraping bullshit.

Edward, the gay one's wife kept on working in PR for a few years after they married in 1999. It appears that rule has been relaxed since Princess Michael married. Frankly, she should have told the courtiers to fuck off when they told her she couldn't work in trade. It's not like they could have done a damn thing to stop her.

R388. Sophie and Edward married in 1999. she worked in public relations until 2002 when a scandal erupted when her comments included derogatory remarks about Tony Blair and other politicians. Sophie spoke about some of her clients in less than glowing terms as well.

Want a fucking old cunt.

Deliberate and nasty....this old she bitch has hundreds of pieces of jewelry and she just accidentally chose to wear this piece.

No cunt like an old nasty stuck up cunt sucking on the teat of the public dole.

[quote]Sophie spoke about some of her clients in less than glowing terms as well.

LOL you wouldn't be in PR if you didn't do that! It's like meterologists talking about the weather.

I bet her pussy is stank too. Nasty bitch.

The Duchess of Kent is a lovely lady by all accounts. How did the Duke’s brother end up with this awful heifer?

^^^Lord Mountbatten hooked them up.

R372 Ugly is the new pretty, keep up Mary!

R375 Your impeccable taste is astonishing- don't miss the 'Turds on Tour' exhibit coming to a fine museum near you!

Isn't it an insult to the Queen since she has given her blessing for her grandson's union? I would think HRH would be furious that a low-ranking royal publicly disparaged her family.

So she cheats on the prince? Is he gay or does he just not care what she does? Maybe he’s glad someone else has to put up with her shit for a while.

Her murdered Russian lover was hot!

Behold the dead hot Russian:

r397, The Queen is not an HRH, she is HM The Queen.

Technical but it would rate an Oh, my dear! for those who care.

[quote]you seem to be oblivious of context regarding blackamoor art. They were made by Italians as representations of the Muslim invaders, that is very, very different from a lawn jockey which was made to mock black people

You seem oblivious to the fact that no one gives a fuck why or who made blackamoor art. It's HIDEOUS. The fact that you think it is attractive and acceptable makes you white fucking trash. Once more, it is hideous looking. It's only attractive to racist losers. That's probably why you are such a big fan of this tatty looking shit

R399, that wasn't her friend. That was her lover.

[quote]So she cheats on the prince? Is he gay or does he just not care what she does? Maybe he’s glad someone else has to put up with her shit for a while

He doesn't give two fucks what she does. He cheats on her too. He was having an affair with a Russian ballerina for a long time

This was very unwise of her. The Queen pays for some of the upkeep for the loser Prince Michael and his useless wife. I have a feeling the Queen won't be so happy to have to keep helping to support these two. Princess Michael is a foolish, foolish idiot. She has basically begged the entire world to accuse the royal family of being racist

Her allowance from the Queen is going to be slashed

The Princess also collects whimsical Americana.

R401 Damn nigga! I hate the shit too, but chill out with the 'everything's racist' nonsense.

Yall done went and triggered R401 ! Calm down honey,Im sure if you stare at your velvet painting of Malcom X for a while it'll help you relax.

I say that HM should create Prince Michael the next Duke of Windsor and thereby create Marie-Christine Von Pain In The Ass, the Second Duchess of Windsor. Not that would be an upgrade, to a royal dukedom, and a slap in the face as it is the Nazi Duchy of Windsor. Slap her, YM, SLAP HER VICIOUSLY!

Among her private banks.

R382 I'm sure it's tough to be a gay black guy with a micro-penis, but you can't blame Mista Charlie for that!

[quote] Calm down honey,Im sure if you stare at your velvet painting of Malcom X for a while it'll help you relax.

It DOESN'T fucking help

I'm not sure a blackamoor pin is inherently racist but probably tacky to wear one to meet the first (potential) royal of color.

It could be worse. A former friend used to collect mammy memorabilia, like the refrigerator magnets below:

Most of you acting a fool for this Meghan chick. You guys sound ridiculous defending this Meghan chick. Bitches get a life. Princess Michael was not in attendance to meet Meghan. It was a traditional royal Christmas event for staffs and Meghan was also invited. It was not a Meghan event dumbasses. For all we know they probably never met since it was reported that almost 150 people were expected to show up. we are all speculating about what might have happened inside the palace walls and some of you guys are acting like it was a Meghan meet and greet.

R412 Does your "former friend" have the matching salt and pepper shakers?

Why the quotation marks? We just drifted apart, it was nothing to do with her taste.

[R404] Prince Michael and his wife receive no financial assistance from the Queen, parliament or the Privy Purse. Up to 2008 the Queen paid most of the rent on their apartment in Kensington Palace, but since then they have been paying all of it. Kensington Palace is part of the Crown Estate, so not owned by the Queen, and rent is paid on all apartments to the Crown Estate.

R401 I didn’t say I thought it was attractive I said you were oblivious. You reek of ignorance.

If you could find some way of channelling your uncontrolled rage into educating yourself you may improve your lot in life.

R410 in you're dreams.

I'm with R358, I don't trust her. Unless her and Harry have an open relationship...things will be rough. And we all know they won't get a divorce if things go bad. This tea is going to be hard to clean once it's spilled. Give it a few, or two years, gentlemen.

Funny that some of you find a pair of 1920s American pottery pickannies eating watermelon with bug eyes and lips wide open in surprise in the same vein as statuary of beautiful, tall, regal black Moors wearing fabulous robes, jewels and crowns.

Now remind me why they are equally objectionable? And in what way does the Moor statuary reflect a negative stereotype?

Explain why you find the Moor statues ugly?

Who is the racist?

I'm rather keen on this double portrait of Angela Dudley-Ward and Penelope Dudley-Ward at our picnic

R421 Is that the devil spouting water behind the sisters? I feel like I see horns.

That is a satyr R422 and one shouldn't read anything sinister into it or the picnic helper

All hoes need to shut up.

I have an antique picaninny collection and my bi-racial boyfriend thinks they're adorable. The good ones are actually expensive. Funny how white SJWs freak out over things that don't even phase most blacks. I'll bet some blacks even own some of it. Chill out snowflakes, it's really not that serious.

R425"Biracial" is the keyword not "black". And he's with a white person so he probably dosent even identify as black or with his black side. So that dosent count. Also he probably dosent have a sense of self. Or even a connection with the black community. So what he thinks really dosent matter.

Oprah is proud of her extensive collection of authentic pickaninny art. Back in the days of her show, she occasionally showed some of it. And as you stated about your boyfriend R425, she has great affection for the pieces.

R426 So you're hating on bi-racial folks. That means your a bi-racist, which is twice as bad as a regular racist. See what I did there? You done got schooled, Miss Thing!

R427 Preach sister! If Oprah's not offended by it, why are all these white queen's panties on fire about it.

What r426 said. And it applies to so many threads here especially those started by the 'bi-racial' troll. I bet r425's bf is a self-hater who doesn't identify with his black side (which is his right, especially if he doesn't look black) and goes out of his way to distance himself. But it's stupid to use such a person as a gauge for black attitudes. I'm a biracial black man myself and when I'm on the street, people see a black man. The 'biracial' bit is just for description of my lineage, but I am a black man and know quite a few people like r425's bf. Tell him he's nothing but skin folk to us.

Yes, yes, black people just LOVE this shit. Give me a break, y’all are not even convincing yourselves.

Tony you uppity jackass

No one is stanning for the cuteness of pickaninny art. I just said that Oprah collects it and is vocal about loving it, so who are we to say?

^ Yes Oprah collects it. And so does Maxine Winters.

Not so fast, r73.

Do you mean Maxine Waters, R433?

Oprah and Maxine would likely be offended if they ran into a white person collecting it. They collect it because it's an important part of black history. It represents how blacks were thought of and they don't want that forgotten.

Now THAT I agree with R436.

R430 I was just calling it the way I see it. And I agree with everything you said. And that last part was right on. "SKIN FOLK" because not everyone is "KIN FOLK".

I think it’s insane to remove every depiction of black people from antiques and art as ‘racist’. It is of its time and is a part of the story of how we got from slavery to now. It does an injustice to the people who actually lived through that to banish any representation.

It happened, it should be remembered and learned from.

I told Michael to wear this but she responded, "no, that's just too much......."

I think it's a really bad reflection on white people. It just shows how ignorant and racist and bigoted they were. For that reason alone I think they should always be remembered. Not that there's no other reminders of there ignorance. Although I know that's not all white people. But still.

This Mammy Restaurant can be found just south of Natchez, Ms.

I drive by it all the time but have never been in it.

[QUOTE] Oprah is proud of her extensive collection of authentic pickaninny art.

I strongly suspect that O and Whoopi collect this stuff just to get it off the market.

R443

I strongly suspect the two collect it because they can.

The Prince/Princess Michael were bankrupt at one point - owing about $ 4 million -they were bailed out by embarrassed royal relatives.

The two PM's enjoys palling around with pro-monarchy Russian oligarchs (Prince M is a relative of the last Czar), and received large amounts of money from these friends for unclear business deals.

"The official reason for the existence of Prince Michael’s expensively trimmed and rather outre beard is that it hides an old bobsleigh injury but it just so happens his Romanov-style whiskers make him look even more like the tsar.

None of this appears to have harmed his chances with a certain type of Russian businessman. This weekend it was revealed that over six years the 69-year-old prince received £320,000 from oligarch Boris Berezovsky (see box, right), a controversial Russian exile ­living ­living in London.

Princess Michael of Kent boasted she’d go anywhere for ‘a hot meal’. Now her husband has been given £300,000 from an exiled Russian oligarch. Are they really hard-up?

Between 2002 and 2008 a fund controlled by Berezovsky funnelled 56 payments, from £5,000 to £15,000, through offshore companies into a family business owned by the prince’s secretary. The transfers were revealed in documents submitted to the High Court ahead of an upcoming case.

For the love of gawd, stop conflating Mammies with Black Moorish nobles.

That is like comparing a Playboy pinup with the Goya Majas. Both are nude women, but can you not see the difference? What if in a dystopian Handmaid's Tale type future, the PC police decreed that nude depictions of women were unacceptable and in the worst imaginable taste? Is there anyone here who thinks that destroying nude Masters' art would be the same as burning Playboys?

The idea that every depiction of Black and brown people must now be flattering and favorable is a very PC concept, and I know that the though behind it is positive. But to deny that Africans did not exist until they could be doctors, lawyers and environmentalists is just stupid. The Moors brought much sophistication as well as advanced methods of taste and grooming to the white Europeans of their day.

They were people to be admired you dolts! Now, maybe all of you don't wish to see a tall black Moor in royal dress and accompanying jewels and headdresses. But that is how the artists saw them, and that is how they should be remembered.

I am starting to think that you CACs know nothing about the Moors vis a vis European history.

R443 You are correct. Woopie said that part of why she collected it was to get it out of circulation.

R444 Do you think they are collecting it because they think it's adorable?

Dear art museums of the world,

We're going to have to ask you to remove all orientalist art as we find it offensive and triggering.

Kindly, the thought police.

Thank you R448. What sort of lunatic would compare the exquisite man in your link to a Mammy doll or a watermelon eating child with plaits?

Chile please.

Dear white people - Please don't tell black people what should be offensive. Your privilege stops there.

R430 No, he doesn't hang out with his "black side" because they basically dis-owned him years ago because of his sexuality. He does have black friends though, but not ghetto blacks.

I think she's terribly glamorous. Like The Countess in The Sound Of Music. Also, what she did was rather hilariously bitchy, but really, it seems worse through guilty eyes. Britain does not have our racial history. Most of Europe has had serfs, not slaves and people are looked down on by class, not color. That's nearly everyone, to her.

R451 well he sure is in a relationship with a deplorable trashy white.

Then he's not black, r451, so irrelevant to this discussion here.

r452 oh please. Sure they didn't have outright obvious slaves but they committed genocide against a million Irish and are responsible for the substance behind "post-colonial theory", which I was forced to study in English. Also remember the work houses? That was pretty much legalized slavery.

R455 = British Welfare Recipient

r455 you're making me nostalgic!

She needs her ass cut real good. Royal deplorable ass bitch.

She doesn't have an 'ass' R458.

English call it 'arse'.

She has a flat ass.

R453 Who, your mom?

R436 One of my worst fears is to offend Oprah and Maxipad Waters.

R456 He's only black from waist down to his knees.

R440, Her name isn't Michael, you idiot.

Dear r450, Don't tell anyone else what they may or may not say.

Fuck PM, the Nazi daughter Kunt. Her pussy stinks like sauerkraut and Earl Grey (Twinings).

R465 Racist pig!

Well the Royal engagement is progressing *splendidly*:

- Harry already publicly insulted Markle's whole family (insinuating that she's some kind of orphan).

- Markle's step-sister is writing a dishy tell-all.

- Princess Michael donned controversial Blackamoor jewelry, as a potential backhanded compliment-slash-insult to Markle.

- Markle abandoned one of her dogs in the US "with a friend", and her other dog now *mysteriously* has 2 broken legs.

What a clusterfuck.

correction: *half-sister.

Btw, Markle's marrying into one of the most elitist, class-obsessed families in the world.

Any social media outrage about a racially / culturally insensitive brooch is laughable. Because it's an open secret that most of the Royals are exactly that - rich, out-of-touch bigots. Look at Prince Philip. It's like marrying into Trump's family.

If Markle is smart, she knows exactly what she's marrying into - a regressive multi-millionaires' club. Supporting a symbolic, anachronistic monarchy is a step back for any self-proclaimed progressive like her.

R470 You might complain that they are "out-of-touch bigots" and "a regressive ... club" yet this Markle woman has made her own decision to join it.

R470 But if you were a billionaire, You would live in a ghetto and spend all your days passing out money to homeless people.

R472 - your comment (about fortune & charity) bears no relation to mine (about it being no surprise that the Monarchical family is racist and classist).

Oh, I completely agree, R471. Markle prides herself on writing a letter against a TV ad stereotyping women. And then she grows up and marries into a family where brides are expected to be complacent baby-machines, pushing out 'heirs' for the dynasty. She'll have to curtsy before 'higher-ups' (especially when not accompanied by her male spouse).

What a ridiculous turn of fate. Hopefully the money is worth it.

Markle seems like those fake progressive feminist. She was a feminist when it was convenient but once she saw an opportunity to enrich herself in terms of fame and prestige the feminist talk was not as important. She will not become a rich submissive wife of a prince.

This mulatto will want out in less than 5 years.

Why do we care more about a stupid broach than we do about the majority of people using the epithet "faggot" every five seconds?

Oh yes, because gay men are cannon fodder to straight people.

Meant to state she will now become a rich submissive wife of a famous prince. Feminist my ass.

I'm sure God is frowning on the concept of a "Royal family". It really is ridicules in this day in age.

BROOCH! BROOCH! Broach is a fucking verb!

Oh Honey, that old cunt was just looking for attention and she got it. Now she's known, worldwide, as the racist ass cunt she very likely is. Allegedly. Yes, indeed, got to love the self-sabotaging of the inbred royal imbecile that she reportedly is. You know, like highly likely.

R479 is working him/herself into a major nervous breakdown.

That pasty royal family needs a bit o' flava.

It's a harmless little homage to slavery. Calm down.

I must admit it’s like r479 is reading my mind. Every time I read a mis-spelled word it jars.

BROOCH. BROOCH. BROOCH.

R479 Breathe bitch, breathe! Use your smelling salts, it's all good, Mary.

R484 I no, rite? Peeple are so dum these daze, Merry!

This elegant woman is photographed in her country house wearing gowns by Norman Hartnell. Her mantle is decorated with vases and delicate porcelain children and an ancient Japanese flautist.

Are these decorations much different from what is being complained about in this thread?