Atrocious Table Manners

All you white people trying to eat sushi should bang your heads against a wall. Only one chopstich should be moving!

The green pineapple phone case is the bigger offense.

I can't stand it when people don't know how to hold a knife and fork properly. Drives me crazy.

Someone should tell them the food was already dead when served, there's no need to stab it now.

Maybe it was a tough piece of meat ?

If I eat with you and you loudly chewing and smacking your lips I will be silently wish you would just die.

Actually, what shocked me was how poor John Kennedy, jr's table manners were. I assume that he could eat properly in the proper setting, but in day-to-day life, he ate like a trucker.

Is that meat? I thought it was a piece of pizza crust first.

Ya gotta problem r1?

Dealbreaker .

Maybe he's disabled. Arthritis?

He? Those look like hearty lesbian hands to me !

Can't be R12, it's not a nutloaf.

Don't be so quick to judge here. There may be other factors involved. I had impeccable table manners until about five years ago. I have a condition called Charcot-Marie-Tooth syndrome, a slowly progressing, inherited neurological disorder. One of the symptoms is peripheral neuropathy. I no longer have any feeling in my hands, which makes fine-motor movement and coordination very difficult.

Q: How many Charcot-Marie-Tooth patients does it take to change a lightbulb?

A: Only one, but it takes me about five minutes to do it.

As the neuropathy progresses, my hand movements become more limited. I can use eating utensils just fine; I just have to hold them differently these days—actually, much like seen in OP's picture. I don't WANT to appear to be a cretin, but I'd rather do that than starve or eat food off my plate with my hands, [italic]á la[/italic] Helen Keller.

My cousin married a lovely Czechoslovakian lady, who was appalled at how many Americans had atrocious table manners. "Oh, look," she'd say in a restaurant after seeing someone with a death grip on a fork in one hand and a knife in the other, "here come the ditch diggers." I always thought that was quite funny. Until I became one of them.

Don't slurp your soup.

Can I pour my coffee into the saucer to cool it?

[quote]...a lovely Czechoslovakian lady, who was appalled at how many Americans had atrocious table manners

Bullshit. American living in Europe 15 years, and they are feral. Unbearable the higher up in social class you go (I'm talking to you, upper class English twits). Clanging and scraping silverware on plates, slurping and chomping mouths open. A business class cabin on a European airline during mealtime is a sonic hell requiring earplugs.

R14 this particular woman has no such affliction, neither does it appear the others I’ve witnessed, either. They simply have never been taught proper table etiquette.

I've been embarrassed since coming from the midwest to the UK - I don't eat with my knife and fork, I use the fork with my main hand and I pick up the knife if I need to cut something, but otherwise leave it on the side of the plate. Yet I see common rubes around me eating with two utensils and looking like something out of the gentry in Gosford Park whereas I feel like trailer trash, even though I am fabulous.

May I eat fried chicken with my fingers or should the fingers be eaten separately?

I knew a guy who broke his arm and it never fused right, and even he didn't have that ape grip.

It’s bad manners to call out lapses of proper form by others at the table. But it’s OK to share this on DataLounge.

Fiddle dee dee. Ashley Wilkes says he likes a girl who eats like rough trade.

I once saw a fat 60ish French woman call out a kid in one of those "first off the interstate" restaurants for holding his fork like that. This was in Pennsylvania. She taught him how to do it properly and then stood back and beamed as everyone thanked her. The minute she left they called her FUCKING FRENCH BITCH.

Interesting on the American eating method vs European. I didn't know the American method originated amongst the French upper classes. Obviously the fork method in OP is wrong in any case.

Ashley Wilkes likes everything about rough trade. And I ain't seen him askin' fer to marry ya.

I ordered pumpkin pie at Thanksgiving in a white table cloth restaurant, the server brought a spoon. This wasn't ala mode. When I asked for a fork he agreed, but made a face. His reaction, and lack of knowledge in table service, reduced the tip to 15%.

R27, I’m sure the waiter cried all day and night over his 15% tip. But I also wouldn’t eat pie with a spoon.

I’d say that I’m particular about the way I hold my fork and knife, but I’m not usually judgmental when it comes to other people. However, I hate noisy eaters with a passion.

On the other hand when I saw Mayor DeBlasio eating a pizza during a photo op with a knife and fork I knew right then not to vote for the cunt ever again.

Yoou may be a one-issue voter, r29

Because people haven’t been taught. No one took the time with them as children either.

As for JFK Jr, it was probably rebelliousness due to an unusual childhood. Twenty years from now, we’ll see how Baron coped.

Baron will be 20 feet tall at that point and no one will dare correct him.

^ Barron, not Baron.

R29, the residents of Italy eat pizza with a fork and knife..

Let's talk about the Kennedy destruction of the Auchincloss's Hammersmith crystal at the wedding dinner?

R35, were the Kennedys drunk at the time?

When were they not R36?

I eat pizza with a fork and a knife, unless it comes in a box.

Eating Thai dishes in America with spoon as main conveyor food to mouth. It's like shovelling food to your mouth. Use of fork or chopsticks is daintier and more refined.

The Kennedys probably broke the Auchincloss crystal and then pissed in the sink, R37.

That waiter was being bitchy with some higher-up about the quality of the pie. Was it more like a dessert that requires a spoon than a pie with an acceptable crust? If it was a yucky soggy pie you just know some smart ass diners would be thanking him for the spoon error.

In some countries, they eat with a spoon and fork.

Spoons are for soup, pudding, and ice cream. Never pie or cake.

I thought chop sticks are for shoveling rice dishes from a bowl, which has been raised to your chin, into your mouth? How do the Japanese use them?

I hate meal talkers. I was taught that you put your utensils down to have a conversation. Americans are notorious for blabbing during a meal. I get it, you want to talk, but there's food on the table! Expensive food getting cold! Shut up!

Hate it when people blow their nose at the table.

Oh dear god, R46, that's a whole other thread.

R45, what culture are you from? If you’re American you’re A. Wrong, and B. Should just shoot yourself.

R1r may I put a serious question to you? Does your condition involve pain as We'll?

I’m right handed but I don’t zig-zag. I keep my fork in my right hand all the time - when I need to use the knife I just use it with my left hand.

I know this is “wrong” but both “proper styles” the “left hand fork / right hand knife” and the “switching knife & fork in your dominant hand” seem clumsy to me.

Do any of you do this too?

I'll shoot you if you spew food on me while talking, R48. We don't talk when there is food on the table. We eat. We do not talk with food in our mouths, we wait. AND, we do not talk while someone else is eating and expect them to listen to us. Please do not come here.

That grotesquerie with the fork is the cost of feminism to our civilization. Dump your children in daycare and pay someone to raise it for you, so that you might have it all.

But don't kid yourself. The minimum wage daycare worker raising your child cannot teach it gracious table manners. Never forget that!

R51 also created the rules for the Fickstutenmarkt.

Here is some instruction

R50, I’m left handed. I use my left hand for my fork. When I use my knife, I use my right had for it. I doubt that I was taught this. People are occasionally charmed by my euro-style habit, but I think it was just serendipitous.

R53, I readily admit I have no idea what you're talking about. You sound like a Nazi. Quiet eating, btw, is healthier for you and catching on. You can keep your American angst and indigestion. Quiet meals avoid fights at the table, like all the descriptions I've read here about Thanksgiving celebrations. We don't make it a point to correct people at table, either. That's rude. You will not, however, be invited back.

R51, I think I read your post in the “mmmmm” thread. I hope you don’t do that.

But this business about being silent while there is food on the table would make you an insufferable dining companion. It can indeed take some practice to learn how to eat with others. The trick is to put small amounts of food in your mouth at any time, so that you can chew it and swallow without stopping the whole world from revolving as you chew. Also, don’t put food in your mouth when a response is clearly soon expected from you. You really ought to learn how to do this. It is a necessary social skill but also valuable for business.

If I was eating with someone holding their damn fork that way I would think they were tense or angry. Damn!

I had a friend in college from Norway who freaked out that Americans hardly used knives at all but, instead, cut food with the side of the fork. I explained that people used steak knives when cutting tough meat but for softer foods the side of the fork cut as well as a dull table knife.

I use spoons for everything.

R51, but what is your culture? You’re not American, but what are you?

[quote] R51:..We don't talk when there is food on the table. We eat.

Do you keep shoveling more food into your face as soon as you swallow? Most people I know eat slowly enough that there is time to talk between bites. If you’re not talking, then what are you doing between bites? You sound like you might be a mental case. Or a dog, maybe, or similar.

R57, I don't schedule important business meetings over a meal. I eat food for pleasure, not business. I also don't play golf or talk about the 'bitches' in the office. And R61, why don't you guess? You seem to know everything else. I'm "insufferable" while eating because I don't chew and talk at the same time? Right. Thank you for the sage, but unnecessary advice.

R51 is probably some sort of Asian, most likely Chinese. Their version of table manners are pretty much the opposite of Western etiquette.

You really need some reading comprehension skills. A quiet meal is not a silent meal. I was taught to pay attention when someone is talking to me, so I was also taught not to eat when that was happening, but to put down my fork and knife or spoon and listen. Americans talk so much that my food is often cold and spoiled when I finally get to it. We chat, but we don't conduct business or talk about angry politics at a meal. That is also rude.

Using the side of a dinner fork to 'cut' into an entrée.

I die.

No, R63. You’re insufferable because you think that the choice is to be either stone cold silent; or, to talk with your mouth full. There is a third way. It involves understanding the natural rhythm of normal human communication in your own culture, and then eating slowly, with small enough portions, so that conversation can flow without either party speaking with their mouth full. It takes practice but I bet you could learn to do it.

Since you asked me to guess, my guess is that you’re Germanic and have Aspergers, so have trouble picking up on social cues. How was my guess?

Btw, the conversation between loved ones at Thanksgiving or Christmas who otherwise don’t see each other often compliments the meal. It is the reason so many people enjoy holiday meals with loved ones.

I haven't 'zig-zagged' since I became an adult. Emily Post advised that either method was appropriate. The person in the OP's photo, though, is completely lacking in any grace.

Thanks, R64. I was asked not to go there, and then told to guess as to where it is. I think this is the same person who likes to “mmmmmmm” during meals. If not, I’d love to see them have a meal together, lol.

R50 here. R55 do you hold the fork “upside down” like the Brits do? My Euro friends never put the knife down & use it for all sorts of food moving - you seem to imply you put the knife down when not cutting.

And sorry R66 but I also cut soft things with the fork like R59 mentions. Gauche I know but straightforward.

Texas born and raised and we eat like Brits.

No, R69, you were told not to go there because you're rude, not because I wasn't willing to tell your arrogant self my ethnic heritage. I'm not Asian or Chinese, either.

Agreed R46. Murder is too good for them.

Toasting with water!

Peasants!

R70, R55 here. I usually do not hold the fork upside down. It feels crude to me, so I’m not real comfortable with it. I might put the knife down intermittently. I suppose it depends on what I’m eating. I can’t say, exactly. I would have to pay closer attention, as it is simply second nature to me now, and don’t think too much about it.

My 1st late husband,may he rest in peace,was shoved into foster care when he was 3,and by the time he ran away at 15 and came to florida,he had been in countless foster homes, where apparently no one had ever taught him the basics of table manners. He was a "shoveler" ,and it drove me mad. He was very touchy about feeling criticized though,so I had to slowly guide him over our first years together,and when he died I could have taken him to any restaurant and been proud. He was never a smacker though,thank god,cause thats a deal breaker with me.

Here’s a few things that bug me:

Do not cut all your meat up before you dig in. Or cut all of anything up. It looks childish, and will mean that you eat too quickly once you start.

Do not raise your plate to your face or lower your mouth to the table. That’s why you use utensils.

Don’t blow your nose using the dinner napkin.

Don’t apply salt or pepper or whatever until after you have tasted your food. Then use sparingly. Some snobs will look down on you for use of ketchup, so it would be wise to go without during a business dinner or first date, unless you feel comfortable with the other party .

[quote] I’m not real comfortable with it.

Are you unfamiliar with the country and western song by that title?

Aww, R76, that’s touching.

I was the youngest of 7. If you weren’t quick, all that was left was brussel sprouts.

R78, no. Hum a few bars for me.

Q: Can you list the "Five Deadly Sins" in this photo?

[quote]Do not cut all your meat up before you dig in. Or cut all of anything up. It looks childish, and will mean that you eat too quickly once you start.

R77, I agree with you, basically, but etiquette sometimes has to adapt to the circumstances at hand. My late Dad had Alzheimer's disease, which eventually took him from me. One time, my Mom and Dad and I were all having lunch at our favorite Chinese restaurant. Dad always ordered Orange Chicken. When they brought our meals, I could see my Dad struggling, since the chicken pieces were so large. I told him that his meal looked really tasty, and asked if I could have a bite, so he handed his plate over to me. I cut off a small piece of chicken and ate it, then quickly cut the rest of the chicken into bite-size pieces and returned his plate to him, where he happily returned to eating. The manager had seen what I had done, and came over to tell me (very quietly) that I was a good son, and that she would be sure that any time my parents came to eat, she would be sure the kitchen staff cut my Dad's portions into small pieces....and they always did.

R76, That's very sweet. You're a great guy.

R82, that’s absolutely understandable and not uncommon.

I was thinking more of young men. I still recall a guy dining with my group at my prom decades ago, and cutting up all his meat before he started eating. He simply had not made the transition from dining as a child to adult as yet. Likewise my nephew, who was weeks away from going away to college. I had to tell him to not lower his face to his plate when having soup. I usually never corrected him as I left that to his parents, but I was afraid they’d let him go off to school without saying something, and I was afraid he’d be dating like, basically, like a pig.

I understand the concept of not lowering one’s face to the plate but it’s hard not to do so a little bit when eating something like soup.

I'm not sure what this "quiet dinner" thing is. Dinner is usually a social gathering with lots of conversation going on. I can't imagine sitting at a table with others and not talking, just eating and chewing. Seems depressing.

R84, I’m know! You want to keep your tie out of the bowl. Or not drip on your shirt. Still, it’s a skill you need when dining in certain company, so you might as well start getting practice now.

Oh, reminds me. I think it’s a poor habit to flip your lie over your shoulder to protect it. Less offensive is tucking a tie into a shirt, but I don’t do that, either. I just either am very carefully, or didn’t order soup! Also, I rarely eat spaghetti carbonara in a restaurant. At home, I figure I can change my shirt, if I have to!

Who the hell doesn't talk while eating, r45? and your justification for your lack of how to interact with, you know, human beings, is even more laughable.

You must be a delight to hang out with and I'll bet your name gets scratched off a lot of dinner party invitation lists when they're at the first draft stage.

R85, “quiet dining” is eating with just your cats.

I get that blowing your nose or chewing with your mouth open is gross but the rules about how to hold a fork and stuff seem stupid. How does that bother the other people at the table? Especially since the rules change depending on where you are.

I admire young men who show peen at the table.

R89, it helps bonding to have shared habits, for one thing.

[R39] Thais eat their food with a spoon and fork, fork in the left hand to help move the food onto the spoon, spoon in the right to convey it to the mouth.

[quote]Some snobs will look down on you for use of ketchup, so it would be wise to go without during a business dinner or first date

If you're going on a business dinner or first date somewhere that serves French fries, I doubt anyone would care about ketchup. But if you're worried, I guess you could ask for mayo or aioli on the side. Or just order a baked potato.

Much worse than ketchup, I would think, is the use of A1 or some kind of bottled steak sauce.

And don' forget proper placement of the little finger!

I swear I have this phobia:

‘For people with a condition that some scientists call misophonia, mealtime can be torture. The sounds of other people eating — chewing, chomping, slurping, gurgling — can send them into an instantaneous, blood-boiling rage. Or as Adah Siganoff put it, “rage, panic, fear, terror and anger, all mixed together.”

There are [italic] rules! [/italic] Break them at your peril! Enjoy your dinner. (My eyes are on you.)

R92. Not only Thais but Indonesians, Filipinos and most Southeast Asians as well.

Oh, it's easy to avoid splashing your shirt, coat or tie with soup or sauce. Just tuck your napkin firmly into your shirt collar. Or ask your server for a bib.

Is it all right to flip your tie back over your shoulder at the urinal to avoid splashback? I've always thought that's so butch. Like planting one palm firmly high over the urinal and using the other to aim your Johnson.

Don't let this happen to you:

Atrocious table manners!

....

Jerri Blank has the BEST table manners, ever.

This would make a good book.

....

De rigueur viewing for R63

🍴 We never use silverware.

We had to sell it to buy food.

Bump

I never understood that, r79. It should be basic parenting to make sure everyone gets food. How many borderline psychopaths were made when their parents let them steal dinner from their young siblings every day until they left for college?

R108 — My brother-in-law was the youngest of 6 kids. His table manners are horrible. He'll snatch serving plates and shovel an overabundance of food onto his plate before others get a chance at anything. My sister has spoken to him, but he genuinely feels that if he doesn't get fed first, there will be nothing left for him. More than once, family members have tried to "accidentally" stab his hand with a fork when he's in one of these feeding frenzies, but he's quick and on-guard and always manages to dodge whatever implement is parried at him. We're resigned to his dreadful behavior and we put up with it because he's such a damn nice guy otherwise and we all love him. Still, there are times I'd lie to break his fingers.

I grew up in a large extended family,and it was nothing to have a dozen or more people at our table,and if we'd have tried that grabby hoggy shit we'd have ended up going to bed with no dinner and a sore ass R109.

My mother hosted two Swedish exchange students for a Summer, despite having 7 kids. She was always inviting people over. The priest, relatives, friends... I’m sure they were all horrified. Maybe it kept her sane to have others visit. A lot of the kids from bad homes liked to hang out at the house, regardless.

I found myself setting aside a placesetting for John when we were together. He’d saw through anything with his knife. No Edme was safe from the fucker. He had a lovely penis and delightfully lush butt, though.

R111 your mother sounds like a wonderful, generous hearted person. People like her are rare. My mom's best friend was like that - everyone congregated around the huge table in her kitchen. A lot of kids from troubled homes found a refuge there. She had a greater influence on my character than almost anyone else, aside from my father and maternal grandparents.

r113 he didn't mention the mother had secretly wired the guest bedrooms for video and sound and had a side business selling them on hotswedishbeef.com

R114 Sadly, I actually went to that site hoping to find Nordic cock

R112, are you referring to the much reviled John of program and textbook fame, or some other John?

r51 Homer Simpson

Noticing other people's table manners and getting all worked up about them might be the most DL thing ever.

It’s difficult and unusual to correct adults, but, with that rare, intimate, loving relationship, you can do it, if you do it with love and humor. Not with shame, etc. but choose your battles wisely!

R118 I was "getting all worked up about" other people's table manners, or lack thereof, long before DL existed.

No doubt R120 -- it was a perfect fit for you.

Are you now or have you ever considered transitioning?

Never mind that, my BIGGEST pet peeve of atrocious manners is performed by 99% of the waiters and waitresses in America: if two people are eating and one has finished his or her meal, they come over and REMOVE THE PLATE and leave the other diner to be eating alone. It's the height of bad etiquette. Never happen in Europe.

Whenever I've been with my mother or girlfriend and I finish first, I have to tell them "YES I AM DONE, BUT SHE IS NOT, SO DON'T TOUCH MY FUCKING PLATE. It's impolite."

America blows ass when it comes to protocol. Look at Jennifer Lawrence, the rude cow burping and discussing secretions and her bowel movements on the film promotional circuit for every movie. Gross.

[quote] I have to tell them "YES I AM DONE, BUT SHE IS NOT, SO DON'T TOUCH MY FUCKING PLATE. It's impolite."

And then R122 wonders why people are always saying "you know let's skip dinner--we can go straight to the movies instead"

R51, you describe people's reactions to the way you use your knife and fork in a way that implies that you are considered unusual. That is how you are supposed to use your cutlery. And I am right-handed.

Never mind table manners...why on earth do Americans use an adjective as an adverb? "That's REAL good." Offensive. Hillbillies, the lot of you!

We invented it when we made the Internet, r124

So fill in the blank: Using proper tables manners results in _______.

As far as using salt and pepper before tasting food I'll stop when I'm served a bowl of soup that does require additional pepper being added.

We went to my partner's friends' house for a pre-christmas dinner last week. They have a 12-year-old daughter. The daughter sat with her left elbow on the table propping up her head. She held her fork in her fist and shoveled her food into her mouth. We were having roast beef and, instead of cutting off a bite, she would fold over the whole slice, stab it with her fork and gnaw off a bite with her teeth. I was absolutely appalled. I couldn't stop watching her.

She's 12? Yikes.

My parents had both myself and my sister go to etiquette classes. I don't remember when, but they taught us the basics, along with how to walk and other things (?).

I’m afraid I have poor table manners. I was called out on it very rudely a few years back by a working class British woman, whom herself had been adopted. I was then over 45 years-old.

I just don’t think I was raised right. I had 3 brothers close in age including an identical twin and was clearly too much for my overwhelmed mother (she was never interested in raising kids). It was the same thing with hygiene and proper dentistry (though those things were sorted out much earlier in life).

It is a terrible, terrible thing to humiliate somebody at a public dining table, especially at a work dinner. I may have held my fork wrong but I was otherwise discreet.

A fussy friend said the following are deal breakers in a job interview, so you know:

Dirty shoes. You can buy cheap but effective shoe shine kits at the supermarket. I keep mine in a little leather box, on the floor, in my bedroom, below the chair I use when I dress. The clothes really [italic] do [/italic] make the man. My doctor always notices my shoes and thinks It indicates that I have everything together as a result. No matter. Over-dressing just a tad, has always worked at my jobs, too.

Also, adding salt and pepper or something else to your food before tasting it. This indicates that you make decisions before having sufficient info. You could argue that you’ve dined there before and had that dish, but when you are explaining, you are losing.

I once, only, dined at Boston’s famous “no name” seafood restaurant. I was with a pal. I think we were clearly a Gay couple, though not wearing rainbow caftans, or any such thing. Just using gaydar. It was 1983 and things were starting to free-up.

The waiter removed the low-profile, wide brimmed bowl, full of fish juice, abruptly and horizontally across the table. Fish juice spilled across the table and into my lap. I know he did it on purpose and I wanted to leave without paying at all, prepared to leave my name and complain of discrimination and plain bad service if not assault, but my partner insisted on paying AND leaving a tip, the dick. He always hated confrontation.

I was OUT (or prepared to be) in small ways when I was young. I surprise myself sometimes, when I look back.

R55, I'm also left handed and do the same thing. No one taught me either.

Can not overlook the place of scissors at table? Every bit as useful as knife and fork.

No comment about scooping the soup towards the far end of the bowl then lifting the spoon?

I assume your parents took you out of regular school to attend the etiquette classes, R128. You missed the grammar lesson on reflexive pronouns.

No, sometimes no one really gives a shit except for pretentious pedants on the Interwebs, r135.

[quote]I was called out on it very rudely a few years back by a working class British woman, whom herself had been adopted.

She couldn't have done something about your grammar (rudely or otherwise)?

Low class mouthy British broads deserve tire irons to the base of their skulls

So do you, R138.

You should have gone to Durgin Park, r131. I remember going there with this guy when I visited Boston in the early 1970s. I don't remember the food being great, but I know we slurped oysters there before and after slurping dong, and that the staff treated us no more brusquely than they did anyone else. That was their schtick, IIRC.

If Elio and Oliver both end up in Boston in CMBYN II, the oyster could be the new peach.

R139 got issues

Actually, R141, someone who thinks someone else deserves to be killed with a tire iron is the one with issues.

Regardless of one's lack of table manners, breeding, rearing, etc., my DL Tasteful Friends, always offer to clean your host's kitchen after enjoying their delicious meal and the evening's joyous frivolity.

In addition to one's sinful table manners being immediately and forever forgiven, the evening's judgmental family members and lazy-ass, self-righteous social vultures will soon become vicious social trash.

[quote]always offer to clean your host's kitchen

Always offer, but if your host says "no, thanks," he's not just being polite. I don't want anyone to clean mine. I do it my way, and you don't know my way. I'll do it after you leave, or go to bed.

Though I prefer to clean my kitchen myself when hosting parties (to spend time with my guests and to prevent manhandling expensive cookware/dinnerware, an investment), an offer of such generosity is always favorably remembered.

I’m a middle-class American guy married to a working class British bloke. He grew up very poor and even had days with no food. No one ever taught him any kind of table etiquette at all, and everyone ate the same way. He has a brilliant mind though, and an excellent education, besides being very funny and smart. The first time I brought him home I could see my parents watching him eat, horrified, until I silently threatened to slowly kill them after they went to bed that night. They pulled it together and said nothing.

...the moral being rudeness is always worse than bad table manners. And no one better make him feel badly about himself or I’ll punch their lights out. And ultimately how someone eats doesn’t matter compared to what they make of themselves.

Since you've been together 17 years, R146, why couldn't you tell your husband about his table manners at some point? That wouldn't be rude. I did it for a friend who'd grown up on a farm as he was about to enter into career discussions with some rather rich people. He was grateful. His only objection was that I hadn't said something years earlier.

Why should I? He has nothing to apologise for. He already has table manners, they’re just not the same as mine. He can eat however he wants to, same as me.

R143 is a she-bear who wants her guests to sweep her cavern. Go hibernate.

Guests exist in many categories. Intimates, some family and close friends may "help" clearing the tables and cleaning up. They also may help cook, set the table, and do whatever else needs doing, either as part of shared time or as part of the background work for other, more-formal guests. But no one is obliged, if a host actually is a host and not a parasite attempting to play host.

In most situations, an organized host does not need help. Smart hosts who are lucky enough and sensible enough to apply extra funds to hiring help are spared burdens that can't be managed.

Very lucky hosts such as I have live-in staff, among whom some of these chores are a natural part of their job and among others it is extra work for which I remunerate people accordingly. I don't expect the housekeeper to work parties but the cook is welcome to ask her to assist, although the kitchen helper usually is plenty. On occasion the gardener/driver helps, and he's savvy enough to manage the tasks needed.

But even when people are having their days off or I just want to entertain solo, I wouldn't ask for or accept any guests' work for their dinner, unless we're having a performance night and singers know to sing and players know to play, but on those occasions I always have staff. Naturally.

You people live like savages. Treat your guests like the special and welcome company they are or ought to be.

[quote] R148: Why should I?

If he eats with business associates, he needs manners. Unless he’s young and charming, or already rich, or terribly handsome, he needs manners. It’s good for business!

R149, you’re a bore, dear.

And a boor, R149.

....

He’s done absolutely fine as he is, R150, which was my point. He already has manners, they’re just different from mine, and who the hell am I to correct how someone EATS?

Anyone who has a problem with it can go fuck themselves.

R154, are they acceptable to business associates? Are they reasonably like others? What you’re saying could mean anything. Like he’d fit in, on the Planet of the Apes, or something.

Again, I don’t care what anyone else thinks. He probably has what’s considered poor etiquette if you’re middle-class or higher, but fuck anyone who’s arrogant enough to judge him for it. Why are you so hung up on business associates? Who cares what they think?

R156 will defend his huschav to the death...

Damn straight, R157.

MILLENNIAL'S EAT LIKE THIS.

r158 I agree to a point, but I'd be upset if he took any flak for it that caused *him* to be embarrassed or hurt. Regardless of how rude the people correcting him are, if it's that obvious, I'd rather show him proper etiquette privately than have him targeted.

R146, I'm a one man guy, but I'm i little bit in love with you.

That’s a very fair point, R160. It isn’t/hasn’t been an issue. There’s such prejudice against working class people who have made something of themselves, and he gets targeted for his regional accent more than anything else. (To be honest, apart from my parents, his manners have never been an issue that I’m aware of.)

R161, you’re a doll.

So, is there a culture where talking during a meal is considered rude? Or is it just one maladjusted DLer pretending that there is? Did a cursory Google search on it and nothing came up except articles in British newspapers on how to converse while eating and a bunch of Quora answers on how, yes, the Chinese do talk a lot during meals, but don't linger in restaurants.

Knowing how to make appropriate dinner conversation was considered a basic skill in my family, along with knowing which fork to use, how to an artichoke and so forth.

I would love to see a spin-off thread with the Brit with bad table manners and his man who wouldn’t dream of giving him guidance.

"Thank you; I'm fine. I'll just have water."

A few years back I was invited to dinner by a cute Venezuelan guy. He cooked a lot of food and even baked a cake for dessert. I honestly don’t remember if it was good or not. After we ate i offered to help clean up and he said no, don’t worry about it. We ended up in bed and all I could think of was all that food and mess left out on the dining table. It grossed me out and I couldn’t get out of there fast enough in the morning.

R167 - You'd forgotten to sign your post, "Mary!"

[quote]all I could think of was all that food and mess left out on the dining table.

That's [bold]your[/bold] issue, R167.

R146,My 1st husband was raised in foster homes and had zero table manners as I said upthread,and he was hyper sensitive to criticism (as are you,apparently) and I was able to gently show him the proper way. I think YOU get off on your ChavHus being a little rough,and you look for any reason to flare up at perceived criticism,so the only logical conclusion is you in fact are the white trash one. 17 years and you couldnt show him how to hold a fork ? Really,Blanche ?

What r170 said.

R164, how do you artichoke?

Is this some hipster dance step?

[quote] R156: Why are you so hung up on business associates? Who cares what they think?

Because they can stop doing business with your husband if he embarrasses them with poor manners. It could affect your income. If others are offended or embarrassed, your life can already be handicapped, and you wouldn’t know it was table manners right away, if ever.

My parents tried to make me "cut and switch" but I couldn't even do it as a kid. Part of the problem was that my mother would only give me a butter knife to cut anything, so it was nearly impossible. But still, I just taught myself to eat with a fork in my right hand and cut with my left. It makes no difference to me how other people eat, but one of my status obsessed friends pointed out that I MUST keep the tines of my fork pointed DOWN at all times and the way I eat is simply unacceptable. She (yes, a female) would fit in well here.

Wow, R170, that’s some pretty cutting edge psychology! So your first husband got the best of you and then got out then? Smart lad. Bet those foster homes looked pretty good after you.

Many of the Americans with whom I heave dined, OP.

I hate people who eat at the dinner table. Disgusting. People should just sit in silence, staring at the table (NOT AT EACH OTHER). With their mouths closed. It’s called silent eating. It’s catching on. Don’t come here if you can’t do this or I will cut you.

R177 is a deranged lunatic

If you come here, J. Buzz, I will eat you with the most impeccable manners.

The mere sight of this image makes me dizzy - The promises are endless.

Not all of us choose to be bound by artificial strictures of utensil placement.