Bert Bauer's Good Leg

Suburban cliche my foot.

My good foot, bitch.

My shorts are filled with the finest Midwestern beef around.

Nine inches of Springfield's finest.

*Bert gazing at Kelly's crotch* "We-e-e-e-ell..... GOOOOOD MOOOOORRRRNNNIIIIING!!!! How are you today, Kelly?"

But her good leg was the one they had to amputate...

WHET Tom Nielsen, who played Floyd Parker?

He got divorced from Lisa Brown (Nola).

Apparently he is playing guitars for change.

That web page about Tom Nielsen is pretty detailed (and depressing). He'll travel 100 miles for $50? Also, I forgot Floyd ended up in jail for murder. I don't remember what the story was but I remember thinking it didn't fit the character.

I mean, playing guitar for 50 bucks is about as sad as ((((hiccup)))) drinking wine in your dressing room all day!

As a little gay boy, characters like Vanessa and India taught me more than school ever did. My teachers:

R9 My friends and I would take turns playing the characters. I was the best at playing India and yelling "Pheeeellleeeep!"

It's a wonder we all turned out gay.....

OMG r10,you did that too....

They say that people who grew up in middle America had no exposure to culture or manners but that's not true... we learned about these things from women on the soap operas.

Precisely. I learned from India, Vanessa and Nola....from Iris and Rachel.

Who was that hilarious old German doctor who used to get so exasperated by Nola Reardon?

Nola Leeldon

COW!

WHERE DID YOU GET THAT DRESS!

"If you think I'm going out there like two thirds of the Andrews sisters, you got another thing coming."

I loved Nola, but NO ONE was as fabulous a bitch as early Vanessa.

Remember when Bert wanted to fuck Martin Bruhner? That was Bert’s last romance but he croaked off before she could insert her leg into his va-jayjay

R15 couldn't you have found a shittier quality video to link to?

I never thought it was fair that Bert only had one leg, while Philip had three.

Since Bert only had one leg, she couldn’t give Rita a swift kick in the cunt.

R18 Please accept my sincerest invitation to lick me where I SHIT.

I bet Grant can suck his own cock.

R13, wasn't that Roger in disguise as Prof. Schneider?

Bauer Power!

Susan Piper, played by the incredible Carrie Nye, was one of the great villainesses ever to appear on a soap. I used to love making fun of her voice, gravelly from all those cigarettes. Guiding Light in the early/mid 80s was outstanding.

I loved her too, R25.

Her return story in 2003 was ultimately a dire disaster, but Carrie was fabulous and fun for the first few weeks of it. She had no fucks to give and no time at all for the silly teenage girls and their silly cell phones.

My eggs my eggs, my eggs, my eggs, my eggs

Make a omelet, Slut of Springfield!

Still a two legged bitch here!

I had pretty much given up on watching by the time Carrie returned R26 but I remember hearing about it. That whole story back in the 80s with Susan, Annabelle, Tony, the guy with the beard other than Josh (it's been a while), culminating in their trip to Barbados and the hostage situation in some underground chamber, that was amazing.

[quote]the guy with the beard other than Josh (it's been a while),

I believe you're talking about Dr. Jim Reardon, played by Michael Woods.

Jim was kinda hot but I admit, I never licked him much. They kept changing what he was there for - last thing they did was where he supposed to be a wrench in the Tony/Annabelle story. I was glad to see the back of him, tbh.

Not Josh

[quote]Jim was kinda hot but I admit, I never licked him much.

Sounds as if you wanted to. Was he viscous?

I always wanted Kelly Nelson to sit on my face.

r35, how many times have you watched the scene at r3

Hillary always seemed so dykey. I was glad when she was blown to smithereens.

Yes that was his name, Jim. Another Reardon. I thought Tony was hot but Jim, not so much.

The last time I checked my VHS collection (a few years ago) I found one of my old soap tapes, where I would record episodes of a few soaps during a week, watch them on the weekends usually and then tape over it again the next week until the tape quality was too degraded. This was from the 90s when I did that fairly regularly. Guiding Light was one I had watched for years, so there were usually a few of those to catch up on each week. Anyway on this tape there was an episode of GL with Michael Zaslow as Roger, who was clearly starting to feel to effects of the ALS that would take his life soon thereafter, and his scene that day was with Amanda (but not the original, one of the replacement Amandas, she had pretty long black curly hair and was only an OK actress from what I remember). It's sad and a bit creepy to watch their scene together, he was reciting his lines but just seemed and sounded hollow, out of it and with very little emotion apart from a few times he raised his voice and emphasised a word or two. It must have been one of his final scenes, I remember him leaving the show and reading about his claim to have been fired in one of the soap magazines, before his role on One Life To Live where I guess his condition was written into the character he played there. I was reminded of that watching one of the clips in this or the other thread, just thought I'd mention it. Roger was a fascinating character, and I always thought Holly was 10 times more interesting when she was either in love with Roger or spitting nails because of him.

Roger became wizened and old and no one wanted to see that.

[quote]Jim was kinda hot but I admit, I never licked him much.

Ohhh, sounds kinky! If you didn't lick him much, what exactly did you do with him?

Ha, ha. Freudian slip, I admit it.

John Hudson at AW was a better version of what they tried to do with Jim Reardon.

And with David Forsyth playing him, a way sexier version.

Oh, that WAS David Forsyth. Thanks, R42.

This was the Amanda I remembered from my old VHS tape above, she was played by Toby Poser then. A few clips of some of her scenes with Alan, Abigail, Alex, Reva and Buzz. I forgot how big her tits were.

David ForSYTH was my dream man from Burke Donovan to Hogan McCleary to John Hudson (to Soap Talk). Sadly, he appears to have been straight.

r38, I remember when he started showing signs of illness too. I couldn't put my finger on it but something was just "off". This was during the nascent period of the Usenet when those discussion boards were pretty popular and after a few weeks of this people started posting about him and his acting in the CBS soap group. I tried to watch a couple of episodes with him on that ABC soap and it really seemed sad seeing him like that. I was a hardcore Holly/Roger 'shipper and when he left I started to lose interest, and because of that and real life responsibilities, I stopped watching GL -- the last soap I still taped. I even had a copy of that Roger and Holly video -- the actors had made a program about the couple and sold it on VHS.

Amazing how different a time that was -- I had friends that would tape the entire daytime lineup and then watch it during the evenings/weekends, some of them had children. I couldn't imagine that type of time commitment to any program today.

Didn’t David Forsyth fuck JFP? Another reason the gays hate her.

[quote]Amazing how different a time that was -- I had friends that would tape the entire daytime lineup and then watch it during the evenings/weekends, some of them had children. I couldn't imagine that type of time commitment to any program today.

I had two VCRs. One for AW, the other for ATWT and GL. I switched to OLTL and dropped GL, too, shortly after Douglas Marland died.

R46, I owned that Roger and Holly VHS release too! Great commentary from them Michael Zaslow and Maureen Garrett. Their chemistry was golden.

Kristi Ferrell's drop off the face of the earth is baffling!

Zas couldn’t even fuckng act anymore.

I read that Chris Bernau, the first Alan, was OPENLY gay, which amazed me! Here is a clip of him presenting an Emmy with Deidre Hall, who is clearly enamoured with him. Just look at her!

Bernau swung both ways, but with a decided bent.

R50 Kristi Ferrell has not dropped off the face of the earth. Do a little research. And no, I’m not going to help you. Geez. Use the internet once in awhile.

Bernau swung both ways? LOL!

Maybe between bottom and top.

Bernau swung between Grant’s legs trying to catch that long dong into his mouth.

Was Lisa Brown difficult behind the scenes? This interview suggests she was.

Lisa Brown was fucking the guy who played Fliyd. Ewwwwww! He was gross!

I never heard that she was difficult, but she and Michael had two really unique characters, AND they kind of had the ear of Douglas Marland, too. I could see them being very protective of those characters.

Long gets shit from people for having her favorites, but for the years that Marland was HW, it was all about Nola (and to a lesser degree, Vanessa) in the same way Long wrote Beth and Reva so front burner.

She hasn't exactly done a Bobbie Gentry, but it's a shame she's done so few acting roles after Iva ended on ATWT.

I want to see a recent picture of Beaulah Garrick. She’s still alive & kickin.

I wish GL had a website like this one.

There is a facebook account for someone claiming to be Kristi Ferrell but the profile picture is blurry and very unflattering so I wonder if it's fake.

I saw that too, R62. I think she dropped out of HS, which is kind of sad, and she looks rough.

I still miss Jarsh!

Super weird/surreal to see this now....

Who is that wizened old man in the coffin?

R66 = Mickey Against Daytime Drama

I liked Will Jeffries, played by Joe Breen. He was involved in the Sonni / Solita storyline, and I used to think he was cute. Wonder if he was related to the other Joe Breen, the one who was involved in the movie production code back in the day. A son, nephew or grandson maybe?

Joe Breen became HIV+ and a fundie Christian.

Spot the bulge......

Yum!

I didn't know that R69. I couldn't find much about him online, imdb says he is on his second marriage, this one to Carlene Carter. The two wikipedia articles for people named Joe or Joseph Breen are for the production code one, and a football player from Canada. Even the imdb listing is wonky, it lists the years he was on Loving and ATWT but for GL it just says he played a uniformed police officer in 1985. That's strange, since he was on GL for a few years at least.

Well I just took the time to do a more thorough online search about Joe, and found a few more articles about him #1:

Here's #2:

And then a shorter one here. Sorry if I'm repeating info you all knew, I had honestly kind of forgotten about him for years until I saw this thread and started remembering things about GL.

From the above link, if this is true it's terrible:

"In 1993, the sponsor of the show, Procter and Gamble, was very unhappy when word leaked to the tabloids (most notably the National Enquirer) that Breen had AIDS. He was forced to tell his castmates that the rumors were true. The setside rumors were that P&G wanted Breen to voluntarily leave the show, and when he wouldn’t, he was forced to tape many scenes in which he was scantily clad. Reportedly, taping the scenes made him uncomfortable as both his muscle and body fat had already begun the process of atrophy, and it was at this time that he left."

It also says he was interviewed for the Celluloid Closet, but I don't remember him appearing in the version I saw on HBO.

R45 he never married and was known to check out guys in the Village. All I'm saying for now. There was a pic of him barefoot and in shorts for Soap Opera Weekly many years ago that just spoke to me, if you know what I mean.

Don't believe everything you read...including this, I guess...but what I heard at the time was that Joe Breen was a gigantic pain in the ass and thought he was much too good for daytime. He bitched about Marland's writing and how he had to be in "crowd scenes" where people would just stand around. He alienated most of the cast, especially the people who had worked in daytime for decades. The notion that the show put him in shirtless scenes to embarrass him AFTER he got his diagnosis and get him to leave is ridiculous. He asked to be let out of his contract because of the diagnosis and they accommodated him, doing an emergency recast to finish up his storyline. Like so many actors Breen had an excess of ego. His new ventures don't seem to indicate that has changed.

He had the aids. Never ever could stand that asshole.

[quote]He bitched about Marland's writing and how he had to be in "crowd scenes" where people would just stand around.

For the Gossip As Recap scenes. How can you not want to be in one of those?

Marland wrote a community. He didn't write repetitive scenes of two characters talking to each other. He had a dozen people in Kim's living room, or 8 people in the cafeteria of the hospital. We knew more about the characters because we knew how everyone was connected to everyone else and who liked and who hated whom.

If Breen wanted to do a two-person play there is always off-Broadway.

OH YEAH ROGE, I KNEW!!!!!

As always, go the fuck away Serial Asshole Nutjob retard. Thank you.

OMG! I don't remember ever seeing that scene.....and it's FUCKING FABULOUS!

SLAY IT BEV!!

It remains a travesty that she didn't get a nomination, let alone a win, for those scenes.

R78 I would believe that Joe is/was always pretty full of himself, I got that vibe just from watching him when he was on GL. Also that many actors probably have that personality trait, it's part of the reason they are usually good at their craft. In the wounded eagle video that he made, that you can watch through the link at R74 he says that he learned he was positive in the late 80s, which would have been during his run as Will on GL and before he went to Loving and ATWT. So he must have been keeping that knowledge to himself in order to keep working, as a lot of other guys in that circumstance did during that time, and it only became an issue when he started looking more gaunt and had less definition in his body. I'm sure that Enquirer bombshell threw him for a loop, not to mention any woman he had a romance with onscreen.

But he never came out, if he is gay - which I don't know but always kind of assumed he probably was, even when he was Will. Maybe that's why somebody referred to him as a fundie a few comments back. I don't know what his religion is (nor do I care, if he's one of those preachy types) but his first marriage seems to have produced three daughters, and Carlene Carter is either his second or third wife. I know that straight people can and do become positive, that it's not just us gay guys, but I don't know, maybe he's just repressed and in denial about that? Probably wrong for me to speculate but if I was going to say that anywhere, this seems like the place.

Asshole Scholar. You are mentally disturbed and you have NO family who likes you and NO friends. Now be gone.

The dialogue in this scene is atrocious.

R87 is a low born gutter slut!

It's possible, R85.

But if he was into drugs, it's also possible that he could have contracted it that way.

And even if he was primarily straight, he could have been down for getting fucked by some dude that was sharing drugs with him. Who knows.

crazy that the woman at 00:18 became GL's head writer!

r87, are you fucking kidding me... the dialogue is supreme.

R84. I loved Beverlee. And agree she should have won an Emmy.

Loved the India/Reva exchange. India was such a bitch.

Another great Beverlee McKinsey performance.

"It's time people saw that nouveau riche princess for the lying slut she is!"

This is probably Marj's high-point as Alexandra (skip to 3:00).

Fucken McCunty never deserved an Emmy. I’m thrilled that she never won one. That fucking irritating voice of hers. Deplorable. So glaaaaddddd that she croaked.

When I was a six year old boy in middle America, I wanted to BE India von Halkein. She is my fairy gaymother.

McFlimsy was awful. Phoned it in most of the time, took a hefty paycheck, and put her costars' jobs in jeopardy when she up and quit. And according to her, it was the producers who were awful. Cunt!

R97 How did she put her co-stars jobs in jeopardy? People are re-cast all the time on soaps. I loved her though, she would have been a great Norma Desmond with that throaty, smoky voice and the regal air!

McCunty’s co-stars salary were cut drastically because of reduced airtime. They were paid per episode and because Alex wasn’t recast for a year, it cut down on Spaulding family appearances thus reducing their income. Cunt.

That's not the way it works. Actors who sign contracts on soaps are guaranteed a certain amount of episodes per cycle regardless if they appear or not. If they had a 3 day a week guarantee, they got paid for 3 days a week until a new contract was negotiated or the network used an out clause to get rid of them at the end of a cycle. So Beverlee leaving didn't affect any other actor's salary, unless they were recurring/non-contract actors who were directly related to Alexandra's storyline and Alexandra's storyline only.

No Bev was hardly cunty but Kim Zimmer DID cost Jerry Ver Dorn his job when she refused to re-negotiate her contract at time of the Peapack budget cuts. Well that's how P&G spelled it out.

....

Grant looks so old. Damn the ravages of time!

[quote] Kim Zimmer DID cost Jerry Ver Dorn his job when she refused to re-negotiate her contract at time of the Peapack budget cuts.

Must have made for awkward moments when La Kim went to OLTL to play Echo while Jerry was there.

Grant looks great in that video. Older, but handsome as ever.

Michael O.L. looks like death warmed over.

R100 Go back and look at the episode counts for the people McCunty worked with before and after her leaving. I know for a fact at least 2 actors whose income was halved because she was such a cunt. Do the research moron.

eeek

The anti-McKinsey troll is tiresome.

Is Michael O.L. a deplorable?

Didn't they force a Zimmer/ver Dorn romantic scene when Kim showed back as Echo? JVD is a class act all the way - so much so that Sleeztack loved him.

VerDorn has gotten so FAT! Really really really fat.

He may be fat now those blue eyes in the late 70's early 80's - God he was a dream. So was Tom O'Rourke who played Justin. Loved the Vanessa/Ross scenes where she'd show up on is doorstep wearing only a fur coat or carrying a pizza.

[quote]Go back and look at the episode counts for the people McCunty worked with before and after her leaving. I know for a fact at least 2 actors whose income was halved because she was such a cunt. Do the research moron.

If they had contracts their salaries were not cut in half, because contracts GUARANTEE a certain amount of episodes per cycle. You can call me all the names you want, but it doesn't change the fact about contracts GUARANTEEING a certain amount of episodes at a certain salary. It is like pay or play. You are given a certain number of episodes per cycle. That is your guaranteed salary, whether you are on the air on not. If they play you in more episodes than your guarantee then you are paid more. But if you are played less than your guarantee you don't make less than your guarantee. Contract days even roll over each cycle. If X actor is guaranteed 26 episodes for a cycle, but are only played 20 days the remaining 6 days are rolled over into the next cycle but they are not paid any less. The only people who would have lost any money because of Beverlee's departure are those no on contract. I'm not really sure how that's difficult to grasp.

If you don't feed the trolls, they'll quit coming around.

When they aged Shayne Lewis into an adult, the actor who played him for a while was short, blond and kind of muscly. I don't remember how long he was on, but there was gossip about him having appeared in a softcore wrestling video of some kind, not nude but not wearing much either. Anybody else remember this? Early 2000s I'm pretty sure.

Marty West was a John Conboy boy toy. He could not act to save his life.

[quote] kind of muscly.

Oh, dear.

But he was hot as fuck

[quote] when Kim showed back as Echo?

Huh? What?

[quote]If you don't feed the trolls, they'll quit coming around.

Seriously? You've been on the internet how long? DL?

You know, Jill Phelps was really smart about the Daytime Emmys. Santa Barbara won three in a row -- 88, 89, 90 - for best show. A won for actor; his dad won for Supporting (sorry, can't recall his name) in '90.

Marcy won. (the rape storyline).

And she helped get Anna Holbrook and Charles Keating wins in the mid 90s at AW. Marj, Maeve, Melina, Jean Carol all got nods at GL under her.

But that Emmy magic didn't work for Beverlee.

The scenes above with Zaslow and the ones from a day or so before at the country club were all Emmy-worthy.

It's a shame she never got her win.

Others who should have won IMHO include Mary Kay Adams, Grant Aleksander, Victoria Wyndham, and Connie Ford, the latter being the true definition of a great supporting actress.

Why did Beverlee's peers never vote for her? And that fucking Sleestack got them Emmys thrown at her.

I think ABC was generally more organized and once Slezak had won a few people would fill out their ballots (this is pre-submitting work via tape or online) and they'd just say oh, she's good. I'll check her name.

An actor on another network told me he'd vote for Maura West anytime (for Ava) because he'd worked with her on ATWT.

That's not really a good reason too, but of course, she rocks as Ava so who am I to complain.

I know D. Hall was vilified for sending out tapes of herself circa 1996 when she felt the possession stuff was worthy of a nom. People trashed her, but all she was doing was trying to inform busy voters.

The reality is that only a handful of actors from soaps can speak with broad knowledge about who's good on other shows. Peter Bergman, Hillary B. Smith, Heather Tom, and Kim Zimmer are four names that come to mind who kept/keep an eye on the other shows.

Bergman said once he doesn't have 3 VCR or DVRs taping all networks and then he goes home and watches for hours; he keeps his TV on in his dressing room, flips around and when something's building to a climax, he'll make sure he'll tune in.

I've talked to actors on some shows who don't even know who actors are on their [italic] own [/italic] show!

I know reporters who are in the press room and they'll ask winners 'what did you think of your competition?' and the actor will say, "I don't know who they ever are!" or "I can't wait to meet them at the after party!"

It's an insane process. Winners thank their PEERS for voting for them, but the person who won has no idea who those same actors are.

Then they're not peers.

R118 is right

I don't recall Marty West being a particularly bad actor.

What's funny (well not funny) but I heard that the adult actors weren't particularly nice to Agim Kaba (sp?) who played Aaron when he first came on.

He didn't have the benefit of Doug Marland writing and many of the young actors were perfectly fine, they weren't exceptional. The actors playing Holden and Dusty were hardly Kevin Bacon or Grant Aleksander in terms of chops.

I did think Jennifer Ashe was excellent as Meg tho. She hated that farm and wanted off.

The one thing I never understood about the Marty West hate is that people acted like he was the first time a pretty boy actor was hired on a soap and the first to allegedly be hired via the casting couch. And they acted like he was the first actor on soaps who couldn't act. It was the so fucking hypocritical. Soap fans have such short memories when it comes to certain things.

Sleestak only received a total of 9 nominations (she won 5) for 40 years on the show and was actually very bitter that Lucci got nominated almost every year (21 total nominations!) between 1980 and 2002.

And let's not forget about Doug Marland hiring based on his feet thing.

R127, she had 6 wins out of 9 nominations.

She beat out 7 other nominees in 2005.

Hubbard's another one who should have won; and Kathy Hays should have been nominated for her work in 1986, among other years.

In fact, in 1987 I would have gone with a tie between Hubbard and Hays. And I'm a BIG Zimmer fan.

[quote]And let's not forget about Doug Marland hiring based on his feet thing.

[quote] Hubbard's another one who should have won; and Kathy Hays should have been nominated for her work in 1986, among other years.

Hubbard was fantastic on ATWT, though she had a tendency to veer towards devouring scenery as Lucinda. Loved her work on The Doctors. She's a revelation here, and I'd gladly pay to watch any movie or tv show as intelligently written as this one.

Have your wretched McKunty and hammy Hubbard. For my money, the best actresses in daytime ever have been Susan Lucci, Helen Gallagher, Lynne Adams, Kim Zimmer, Janice Lynde, Jeanne Cooper, Laurie Heineman and Toni Bull Bua.

Where r132 keeps his taste in daytime drama.

R108 Most of us blocked her eons ago.

[quote] Why did Beverlee's peers never vote for her?

She was apparently just not a campaigner. She had several people at AW who she was close to, especially Douglass Watson, and the same at GL.

As far as AW goes, the Emmys were much smaller at that time, only a best actor and actress. Other AW actors won (the original Sharlene and Irene Dailey both won Best Actress), but I think she and Vicky Wyndham cancelled each other out.

She put herself up for the Emmys in 1991 after not doing so for years, but she must not have campaigned. I also believe Jill Farren Phelps, who did not get along with Bev, worked against her to make sure she wasn't nominated, and that was likely one of the last straws re: Bev leaving.

JFP and Bev got along just fine. There were no issues. Then Bev pulled her infamously cunty move of quitting. Really was a shitty thing to do. So the cunt wanted to pull one over on the "awful" showrunners. Of course the simply "awful" showrunners were good enough to hire her on GH to preserve her health insurance when she was ill.

[quote]Most of us blocked her eons ago.

While I don't agree with this person's feelings on Bev McKinsey. I have no issue with this person not liking her. All too often soap fans have these sacred cows that can't be touched and you can't really have a good debate about anything because some people are untouchable. Everybody knows the rules. You are supposed to hate A-B-C and you're supposed to live X-Y-Z and there is no room for disagreement. It's boring.

R131, so surreal to see Liz playing understated opposite the more character-y Sally Gracie who'd go on to play Ina Hopkins on One Life to Live.

The placement of the file Althea was looking for reminded me of the time Lucinda was searching for hers through John Dixon's files (she wanted to get hers away from him so that John would never notice she and Lily had blood types that would reveal there could be no maternal connection).

Lucinda's flipping through names, as she's getting to the W's she reads out surnames and then gasps "Van Winkle!"

R137, I agree.

BUT if a person is posting stuff just to get a rise out of people, well, that's not cool either.

R137 I would agree in general, but that particular poster hammers that one-note symphony over and over again on her piano. She's also far more cunty than "I find her style overdone and don't see the fuss" ever needs to be. After a time it just became repetitive beyond anything further discussion would benefit.

(She's also just plain wrong, but I can overlook that. LOL)

Oh, I couldn't agree more R140; the poster is SO wrong. I can get not 'getting' McKinsey, but that poster goes overboard.

McKinsey didn’t like working. She had the same complaints about AW, Texas and GL. They all worked her too hard. To me, SHE was the problem. I sense a pattern of her always feeling overworked despite having loads of time off. She just wasn’t a hard worker.

Why did they never bring Rita or her (long rumored) child with Ed or Alan back?

I always thought Olivia would have been perfect as Rita and Ed's child.

here's a scene from 1986 with Alan and Ed (Joe Wilmore brought both Bernau and Simon back; Robert Newman and Grant followed)

Rita gets mentioned in this scene as does Hope.

It would have been great if both had been brought back. Hope could have filled the matriarch role of Bert Bauer, making coffee and baking cookies, doling out advice to the kids.

The magazines mentioned both Hope and Rita in late 1986/early 1987, and that was part of the impetus of SORASing Alan Michael, I think, but long term plans to bring them back changed when Pam Long returned mid-87.

Hope might have come back, if I remember right, for the blinkiest blink of an eye when A-M arrived, unless she was just mentioned. But Rita fell off the radar again.

I think Rita was sadly erased completely when they brought back Roger and Holly. And I loved Roger and Holly part 2, but to make that story palatable - to make it more logical, for example, that Alexandra would marry Roger - I suppose they had to ignore the fact that Roger raped more than one woman. They only briefly ever mentioned Rita, and made it more of a Roger/Holly thing.

GL erased other prominent characters. Remember Dr. Sara McIntyre? She was one of GL's main heroines throughout the late '60s and all of the 1970s only to leave by 1980 or so and never be mentioned again.

They completely forgot Elizabeth Spaulding - Phillip's adoptive mother. Was Lizzie named for her? doubt they ever brought up that plot point and GA's Phillip never had a scene with Elizabeth. Very strange.

R146, good points about Rita not coming back; honestly, Alex would have to have been an idiot to marry a serial rapist.

Zaslow was great but every time he pulled that 'it's my world too' (like when he told Vanessa on the deck of the Blue Moon why he wasn't going to run from Billy) I just wish someone had said that doesn't give you the right to RAPE people.'

Alas, Hope was never seen again after Elvera Roussel left in early 1984. She popped up as a day player nurse on B&B within the last 8 or 9 years when Rick Hearst was back as Whip and I believe the soap mags got a photo of them together - even though they had never worked together.

It never made sense not to have Hope back especially when Alan-Michael first returned, when he was shot, when he got married to Harley or even Blake; also, Phillip, Harley and A-M went to NY -- where Hope LIVED - and still, no Hope. There was buzz (no pun intended) that Robin Mattson would reprise Hope (she played her before Roussel). I could just imagine that. She'd play it like Heather or Gina or Delia (sp?) - but that's not who Hope was.

There should have been story and places for Hope, Rita and Amanda after their early 80s exits.

That said, Long remains, ultimately, my favorite GL writer. Reva, Alexandra, India, Phillip, Mindy, Beth, Sonni....she wrote MEN very well.

R148, yes, excellent point.

Elizabeth should have gotten on a plane from Europe back to Springfield as soon as Jackie died off camera (and her body was never found, that left a door open).

Beth wore Elizabeth's wedding dress to the masquerade ball in '84 that heralded Alexandra's return to Springfield. I think that was the last mention of her. Phillip never really knew Jackie as his mom (step-mom and doting family friend, yes), but he believed Elizabeth to be his mom.

She loved him and it made no sense she never saw him again.

I believe Holly's return in late 88 was originally supposed to be brief and then Long saw what Garrett brought to the screen and wrote more and more for her. Smart. Garrett is mesmerizing.

I think that might have happened had the actresses playing Rita, Hope, Elizabeth etc. had returned for short stays.

Do you ever wonder why soaps do that? Why they just forget certain characters? It's always fascinated me why it's easier to create a new character or a new family rather than just using the past to create new story. Especially on these shows with 50 years of history. I wonder if writers just want to do their own thing without being shackled to what came before.

[quote] I believe Holly's return in late 88 was originally supposed to be brief and then Long saw what Garrett brought to the screen and wrote more and more for her. Smart. Garrett is mesmerizing.

That's exactly what happened. Originally they brought her back for a brief visit and to reinforce that Blake was Holly's daughter (which had just been revealed, I think) but I remember hearing that after the first airdate, Pam Long said "She's amazing!" and they offered her a contract.

It wasn't long after that they discussed bringing back Zaslow, and that came together quickly. I think it was April when he was revealed to be alive, exactly 9 years after Roger fell off the cliff in San Whatever The Hell It Was.

Lizzie Spaulding was named after her mother.

Interestingly, this suggests that Holly had a storyline after Roger's death - would have been during the Marland era - and that they were going to recast the role after Garrett left in 1980.

But the Nola story was likely taking off by then, and the show clearly shifted focus.

Love Linda; she's a good egg and has covered this stuff forever.

She was on Donahue once with Zimmer, Strasser, Lester, MEK and held her own.

about Jack Abbott's good points she said 'well, he loves his family...sort of...' she took just the right beats.

Losing Rita AND Holly was a huge blow. Elizabeth left too. They lost Jackie in 82. Really the end of an era.

I loved me some Geraldine Court as Jennifer, but the show needed more.

When Holly snapped sometime during the 90s I think, and kidnapped like ten kids from all over town, I thought that was utterly ridiculous and pretty much character assasination at that point. Who the hell wrote that anyway?? I think Marah and Shayne were two of them, so possibly other characters who hadn't been SORAS-sed yet like Michelle, Ben, Lizzie etc. I was only watching infrequently then but it really pissed me off.

It was early 2000s, I think, R157.

It was a bizarre time where any woman over 50 was crazy. Alex was wearing wigs and gaslighting Reva. Just total BS.

GL was systematically destroyed over years. St. Cristobel? The Santos clan? (Meee-shell!) Holly going nuts. Not replacing Maureen with a family matriarch (Hope? Rita? Claire? Lanie Bauer? ANYONE?), having Phillip choose Harley over Beth; never bringing Alan-Michael back to break up Phillip and Harley; the recast Amanda; she's a lovely lady but Marj as Alex was all wrong; too much Buzz, and my personal favorite killing off Phillip; that's when I KNEW P&G WANTED GL to be canceled.

McTavish's mid-90s stint at GL was epically bad but even she didn't do anything as nutty as Clone Reva, Princess Reva, Psychic Reva, Time-Traveling Reva or Amish Reva.

R158 that sounds about right, as far as when it happened. There was no real reason for her to do so, at least that I could figure out, and no moral or lesson learned either. That's been one of those WTF soap memories that has stuck with me for years now, just wondered if anybody else remembered it too.

R135 writes,

[quote][[bold]Beverlee McKinsey[/bold]] put herself up for the Emmys in 1991 after not doing so for years, but she must not have campaigned. I also believe [[italic]Guiding Light[/italic] executive producer] Jill Farren Phelps, who did not get along with Bev, worked against her to make sure she wasn't nominated, and that was likely one of the last straws re: Bev leaving.

I can’t say anything about Jill Farren Phelps. I will with Beverlee McKinsey.

The year was not 1991 but 1992.

It was for the 1991–92 season for which Beverlee McKinsey submitted for at least an Emmy nomination for outstanding lead actress in a drama series. In 1992, Beverlee McKinsey, who had routinely refrained from seeking nominations (personal reasons) after joining [italic]GL[/italic] in 1984, was inexcusably denied nomination after four consecutive noms for [italic]Another World[/italic] in 1977, 1978, 1979, and 1980. This was despite [italic]Guiding Light[/italic] leading all soaps in overall nominations and seeing seven from its cast nominated in all other performance categories.

My theory is that Beverlee McKinsey was like a victim from too different eras—many from her [italic]AW[/italic] run were no longer in daytime to nominate her work on [italic]GL[/italic] and those not that long in the game, in 1992, didn’t know her work. (When she guested on [italic]General Hospital[/italic], many of the cast only knew of her being director Scott McKinsey’s mother.) What also played out was that Elizabeth Hubbard, nominated for a seventh consecutive year for [italic]As the World Turns[/italic], was the last actor to go ten or more years between nominations. (She won in 1974 for [italic]The Doctors[/italic] and in 1976 for [italic]First Ladies‘ Diaries[/italic] and did not get nominated again until 1986.) This was a period even [italic]GH[/italic]’s Anthony Geary, previously nominated in 1983 and not again until 1997, had trouble making a return. Susan Flannery went 25 years between winning for [italic]Days of Our Lives[/italic] and not getting nominated again until winning in 2000 for [italic]The Bold and the Beautiful[/italic]. (Flannery was prime-time nominated in 1977 for [italic]The Moneychangers[/italic].) Now the record for the longest gap between two separate nominations belongs to Darnell Williams, who won in 1985 but didn’t get nominated again until 2012, for [italic]All My Children[/italic].

Beverlee was married to actor Berkeley Harris. He died in 1984. She died in 2008. Berkeley Harris was previously married to [italic]The Golden Girls[/italic] creator Susan Harris. Berkeley and Susan have a son in author and political commentator Sam Harris. Beverlee’s son is, as I already mentioned, Emmy winning daytime soaps director Scott McKinsey.

R159 is spot on. Way too much Buzz and not enough Ben. The Santos storyline was a bore.

R159

I mostly agree, though I liked Phillip and Harley together. It should have been a fling, though, and not an endgame, and the part where they began to hate each other made me sad.

Phillip and Harley were great together in the 80s when he helped her "be a lady" for Alan-Michael, and they had a real friendship. She was much hotter with Josh, but by the time she came back, Josh had his hands a little full with crazy Annie and Reva Part 3,467,895.

McCunty didn’t get nominated in’92 because she was such a cunt. No one voted for her because she was hated. Her peers hated her.

The unusual thing about the 1992 Best Actress nominations was that the two actresses the soap press were hailing as shoo-ins for nods for months and months beforehand were Beverlee McKinsey and Kate Collins (Natalie, AMC). Both had stellar years in 1991 in intense storylines.

So, it was stunning when neither of them were nominated. Instead noms went to Elizabeth Hubbard, Jessica Tuck, Jeanne Cooper and Susan Lucci. And Erika Slezak took the trophy home.

Interestingly enough, both La Bev and La Collins left their respective shows within 6 months of that 1992 Emmy ceremony.

I think Rita was one of the characters Joe Willmore wanted to bring back when he took over as EP in 1986. However, before he could get such a deal finalized, Lenore Kasdorf joined Santa Barbara as Caroline Wilson in late summer/early fall 1986.

Signing Lenore was part of NBC's push to get established soap stars on the NBC soaps hoping to lure their fans. Genie Francis, Denise Alexander, Larry Lau, Justin Deas and Kristen Meadows were among the stars NBC signed during that time.

I never watched Guiding Light or knew what was going on but I used to love watching all the YouTube clips of Sherry Stringfield and her Blake scenes.

The press actually watches the shows and was qualified to say who was good and deserving.

You ask actors on some shows and they don't even know what work their own co-stars in different storylines are doing.

It's insane. Because the winners get up there and say 'thank you peers!'

There were bright spots in GL's last 15 years - Hunt Block as Ben was amazing; he and India should have teamed up, become a power couple and ruled Springfield.

Mallet or A-M should have returned to put the kabosh on Phillip and Harley. (Or as little Marah used to call her 'Harwww-WEEEE')

I think McTavish inherited Amish Reva; it was PAINFUL and I felt like a traitor watching Reva not written by Pam Long, but the payoff on the Spaulding jet was fantastic. If Kim had submitted THOSE scenes for the Emmy she'd have been nominated.

Reva and Alan on the Spaulding jet, she's decided to let everyone think she's dead and she's off for a life of luxury with a man she doesn't love. He toasts with champagne 'always!' and the look on Reva's face says it all. Then, Josh shows up and it's classic Josh and Reva. He assumes too much and she's made decisions that were just plain wrong, though coming from the right place.

Oh, and I love it when Reva rips into Josh and says, 'you went all out for the little lady in white...' and 'I've seen so much more than you think I have....you land of wishes hopes and dreams...'

As I recall, Michael Zaslow said that GL first approached him about playing Alan Spaulding when Chris Bernau got too sick to work in 1988. Zaslow was a writer on AW at that point.

He declined, saying it would be too weird for both him, and the audience, to suddenly be playing Roger's arch enemy. But also indicated he was open to returning as Roger, if they could figure out a way to resurrect the character.

GL jumped at the idea and stated making plans. However, Zaslow was scheduled to have knee surgery and said he couldn't return until after the surgery. That delayed Roger's return until early 1989. And they had Roger behind a phantom of the opera style mask for the first 3 months or so while Alexandra got to know him on that deserted island.

I'm not sure Zaslow was the actor behind the mask the whole time. From what I remember, the phantom character didn't even speak for the first 3-4 weeks. I assume that was some day player behind the mask. I don't think the phantom character started speaking until Zaslow was the actor behind the mask.

I believe that TPTB approached Zas about Alan but how dumb is that?

Even now, DAYS fans call Roman 'Chris' because that's who the actor first played and he's been Roman for 20 years almost.

Zas as Alan would have been ridiculous.

"Don't you talk to me about accidents, Reva! I see them every day: I AM A NURSE!"

Asshole dumbass Scholar is a puece of work. Get a life. Get some friends. Lonely fool. It’s no wonder his family had him committed. It’s time for that to happen again.

Cynthia was the best thing to happen to GL in its last 20 years. It's a shame she was pushed aside for Zimmer's huge bloated ego.

The internet was in its infancy when this storyline was playing out... does anyone know where audience sympathies were with on this storyline, obviously, before Annie went off her rocker?

Well Zimmer had a lot of haters back then due to her self serving interviews. She claimed that Maureen Garrett, Maeve Kinkead and other women of that age didn't have to worry about her coming back and stealing their spotlight. Right. She also claimed Robert Newman said when he returned in 93 without Zimmer that people whose jobs THEY saved (Diccopolous and Jean Carroll) were now the stars of the show so she made Newman the villain. She also said anyone on the internet who criticized her were the same 'creepy five people' so for me Watros got my sympathy. I thought Annie had a lot of heart and of course he only way to make Reva look good again was to ruin Annie. People forgot Annie had been Rick's wife and that angle was never really explored. Annie might have been the successor to Bert and Mo.

[quote] People forgot Annie had been Rick's wife and that angle was never really explored. Annie might have been the successor to Bert and Mo.

Well, that was revealed well after the fact, but it was indeed an option they had and didn't explore.

It's sad that they made light of mental illness three times, really, to prop up Josh and Reva. Sonni/Solita, Annie, and then Olivia.

But Annie's descent into mental illness was one of the more realistic, heartfelt portrayals.

Annie Dearest

Must have been an interesting set for a while....there's the whole Watros/Zimmer fight that happened, which is what made that story feel so realistic.

Zimmer/Reva just became so sickening after a while. They should have never brought her back. The show was unchained when she left.

Go away Serial asshole. Watros is a dried up old drunk. Stop trying to make her happen. Moron.

I kind of agree, R181.

I think when she and Josh remarried after Annie they should have left town and given space to other characters. She weighed down the show with her need to be front and center.

The antics they wrote for her character brought the classiest soap opera in history down a notch or two. Guiding Light rarely resorted to camp and ridiculous stories. When Reva was on all bets were off and it overwhelmed the show at times. Maureen Garrett as Holly never got the awards or attention she deserved but she was the best actress daytime ever had.

Mo Garrett didn’t lick the right clits.

Mo Garrett always gave me the creeps.

Zimmer, liked Dee Dee Hall went for the gimmicks. Princess Catherine, Ghost Amish Reva, Psychic Reva who goes through Paintings and Oh God the Clone. Ruined the show. Absolutely. The sophisticated audience who loved Marland's stuff got the corn fed Dallas stylized loudmouth Lewises. Amazingly my fav Lewises Trish and Josh - were never like that and they were the 1st 2 on the show.

Thanks for getting me riled again R187. GOD I HATED HER.

You've got Holly and Blake dealing with the admission from a mother that she never loved the daughter that she never wanted to have. Then trying to build an adult relationship. Then you have fucking Reva churning butter in an Amish costume.

I went back and forth on Watros; Reva! Reeeva! REEVA!! REEEBBBAHHH!!

It's like she was going to take off into the air.

But did she deserve the Emmy for those witness stand performances? HELL, YEAH!

Annie just couldn't admit that Josh would eventually go back to Reva.

Zimmer should have kept her mouth shut about her return. She was an actress hired to do a job. She said yes.

She has no control over anything else.

Zimmer won 4 emmys to alcoholic Watros’ 1. Zim deserved every emmy she won.

She deserved one more for these scenes, R191.

But oddly, Kim passed on submitting them.

I loved Watros.

And her love for "Jarsh."

But she had chemistry with everyone. She was the only one that ever made me like Ron Raines as Alan. They could have been king and queen of Springfield. She made Rick interesting (a miracle), she certainly had chemistry with Phillip the Pendulous (but who didn't). She was a gem.

She was the last of the real "P&G" type actresses that came to GL. Well, her and maybe Tammy Blanchard. After that, it was all vacuous bimbos and ABC sluts.

R193, well put. especially about Blanchard.

They were 'real.'

What does it say that when it came time to end the show, they reached out to so many past faves instead of just letting the current crop wrap up the show.

Cripes, Zimmer's 5th Emmy really was on the Spaulding jet (technically, 4th because her next one came in the 2000s and this was '95)

She calls Marah 'Sweat 'Pea' which is what Sarah called Reva.

And her heart is breaking as she tries to explain to her daughter why she's been away.

Annie's descent into madness started on the plane, if not in the scenes right before.

Forgot the clip

Zimmer really perfected that "yes, I did this horrible thing, but I CARE about you."

There was a "tell all" episode on the Bachelorette a few seasons ago. A guy who was NEVER going to get picked slut-shamed the Bachelorette for sleeping with him after she said he was never going to choose him. She never should have said that. When he slut shamed her and said I thought you cared about me, that was her cue to start crying and say "I DO care about you...I didn't mean to hurt you..."

I started watching GL when I got one look at the young Frank Dicopolous. What a hunk! Then, some of the stories and much of the acting engaged me. I turned off when it got focused on fake royalty and silly mob families. I tuned in occasionally over the later years but nothing grabbed me. Frank was still nice to look at, though.

Whoa

I was in the Army and stationed in Korea. We would get Guiding Light, about three years behind, on the Armed Forces Network. I'd be in the room with a bunch of military guys. They were 99% straight I suppose. Even they would all sit around and laugh and point at Phillip the Pendulous. It was the running joke.

Are there any pictures of the pendulousness?

Grant can’t wear shorts because his dong would peek out.

R198 this is for you.

Frank Cooper massaging Alexandra Spaulding?

Yes and no.

Here's a clip from Dynasty, a phone call between Alexis (who's getting a massage) and Sable (who's taking a bath). I'll turn in my membership to the Springfield Country Club if that's not Frank DiCopulous (sp?) massaging Alexis.

No the first time it started in Korea was when he was playing tennis. A pink shirt and gray shorts. It was pretty funny.

Grant dressed like a rich preppy, but he looked like he could take down the whole gang of Gallahads with one arm behind his back.

What a man.

This is my favorite Phillip Alan Michael scenes; Alan's been carted off to jail, A-M gets a check to start up his own business. and he and Phillip start rough-housing.

go to 29:43

Yep, that's Frank Dicopolous working on Joan Collins' body. Get me into the middle of a Frank Dicopolous-Grant Aleksander sandwich.

loved the animosity between Frank and Phillip; when AM and Harley ran off to Vegas Frank says to AM on the phone 'listen you little jerk'

Phillip grabs the phone and says 'don't talk to my brother that way' then Phillip says to AM 'listen you little jerk.'

I like that idea of casting Meryl as Hope Bauer.

We don't!

That was indeed Frankie D!

His real name is Frank Dickos.

As in, all that dick.

I can't find it now, a clip that used to be on you tube of Frank Dicopoulos not long after he started on the show in the 80s. They were trying to pair Frank up with Mindy, or seeing if they had any chemistry, and the two of them had a scene where Frank was wearing a very skimpy speedo, leaving very little to the imagination. He had a great muscular bod, not much of a bulge in the front but his butt looked good from what I can remember. Too bad I can't find the clip or even pics now, anybody else remember this?

R211,

That was when Krista Tesreau was playing Mindy. She left in either 1988 or 1989. Kimberley Simms was cast when the series reactivated the role. Frank Dicopoulous joined [italic]Guiding Light[/italic] in 1987. So, there wasn’t much time to play with the idea of Frank and Mindy. (Dicopoulos and Tesreau, rather than Simms, looked better together. )

I still have Frank’s playgirl spread. Hot!

The Scandal Years

Maureen Garrett never aged.

Lujack was the hottest fucking thing ever

I've never been more torn between an original and a recast as I was with Tesreau and Simms. Tesreau's Mindy was so lovable and spoiled you couldn't hate her, they couldn't write her as a flat out bitch.

Simms got to reprise Mindy for HB's funeral and they have her more than one day.

In fact, of all the Spaulding recasts - Bolger, Dusay, Raines, Poser, even Hearst - I prefer the originals.

Forgot to add Simms played adult Mindy in the Alex/Nick/Mindy triangle beautifully.

r216, and Nick McHendry

The Blackout episodes were absolutely stunning. And no fucking Reva in sight.

Mo, Vanessa and Holly working together to put out the fire... such a classic!!!

r221, scenes like that just show how special and real Guiding Light characters felt to viewers. That's why so many people couldn't handle it when Maureen was killed months after this. It was the equivalent of having a family member die. I'm not even kidding. Everyone in the viewership felt this... it was a terrible, agonising loss.

It was definitely Krista Tesreau's Mindy R212, and I don't think Frank had been on very long because I'm not sure there was even a Harley yet, let alone Buzz or Nadine. Still working as a mechanic if I remember right, though admittedly it's been a while. Frank and (Krista's) Mindy had a sort of friend chemistry but it didn't really take off romantically, so I guess they just dropped it and came up with Eleni so that Frank had a female character he could fall in love with. I remember seeing their scenes back when it aired, a gay fan of the show would NOT have forgotten Frank practically nude like that, and I remember seeing a short clip of that scene on you tube at one point but can't locate it now, or any pics to back it up either.

By the way: We are coming up on the 25th anniversary of the on-screen death of Maureen Bauer.

The character died in the episode which aired January 11, 1993.

R223,

I think there was barely any gap between Frank Dicopoulos and Beth Ehlers first appearing on [italic]Guiding Light[/italic] in 1987. (If I have it correct, Dicopoulos first appeared in September; Ehlers in October.)

The scenes I remember of Frank and Mindy apparently happened in the summertime. I would guess 1988.

Bolger was so hot. I would have loved to have wild crazy sex with him.

That could very well be R225, I'm surprised I remember as much about it as I do. Parts of it are just fuzzy to my memory now, 30 years on. I'm not sure this scene happened in Springfield, where else might they have been? San Cristobal, or was that later? I even have the coffee table 50th anniversary book in storage somewhere, I've been wanting to find it and a few other books to remind me of some things. That book was really good, it had detailed character info and some actor bios, and at least some of it was broken down by year or decade so you could just read what amounted to a long recap, and look at the pictures.

I was a regular viewer of GL. I couldn’t care less when Mo died. She was such a fucking boring charactet! The focus groups were right. She wasn’t needed on the show.

R222, I agree. As horrible as it was to kill Maureen, I will say GL did the funeral and aftermath right.

Patrick Mulcahey did the dialogue. The man is brilliant.

It wasn't 100% perfect; no Rick, Mike, Hope or any of the Reardons like Bea (!), Chelsea, Tony, Jim, etc.

[quote] In fact, of all the Spaulding recasts - Bolger, Dusay, Raines, Poser, even Hearst - I prefer the originals.

I prefer Hearst to Evans - not that Evans was bad but Hearst was the maturation of Evans' younger take on A-M.

I preferred the originals on the others, but I've also always loved Dusay and Bolger.

[quote] Bolger was so hot. I would have loved to have wild crazy sex with him.

I still would.

He's beautiful in Parting Glances.

I thought Alan-Tye was sexier than Rick Hearst (who was probably a better actor). I really miss the soaps -- so many hunks and always new ones brought it to get us moist.

god I loved Holly. Her scenes were so much better than that Reva shit.

WTF was wrong with Nadine? Was she on the autism spectrum or something

Nadine was great! She was supposed to be a throwback to a Golden Age of Hollywood ditz.....but one that never got to go to Hollywood, and ended up lost and poor instead, abandoning her kids.

Nadine was annoying.

Yes, it's unfair to compare Hearst and Evans at the end day. Hearst was a young man/young adult/adult; Carl was a boy, the younger brother fuck up whom Phillip had to whip (no pun intended) into shape on occasion.

All those other actors would be perfectly fine in other parts.

In '83-84, the Spauldings were Chris Bernau, Beverlee McKinsey, Grant Aleksander, Kathleen Cullen, Elvera Roussel and a toddler playing Alan-Michael.

Compare that to Ron Raines, Marj Dusay, John Bolger, Tobey Poser and Rick Hearst...

It was just never the same.

Of course, I'd take ANY era from the 90s when soaps had budgets and still decent writing over what we have today (though Days and GH are quite good).

I'm the type of fan who thinks that when a show loses three or four solid favorites (without a plan in place to move the story ahead without them) can be devastating to a soap.

Hearst is an actor; Carl was a cute boy who learned a lot while he was there. I think the chemistry with Grant and Carl was better than with Grant and any of the other A-M's.

Hiss and spit on r216. Will you be joining your friend at DC's annual anti-Roe v. Wade extravaganza next month?

r187, she should never have been a comin' back.

Alex Cohen reminds me a little of Carl Tye Evans. Is "Evans" a Jewish name?

I'M CUMMING, BUD!!!!

I never liked Ron Raines as Alan.

Toby Poser was a decent enough actor but she wasn’t playing Amanda. Between the rewrite that Brandon, not Alan, was her father, and her inexplicable turn as a madam, I don’t know who the hell we were watching but it sure wasn’t the Amanda we had seen in the early 80’s.

I always wanted to pull that rug off Ron Raines head!

R243, no, you nailed it; that sure wasnt Amanda.

Plus, was there ever any mention of her son?

I kept waiting for a smart writer to bring on: Matthew Spaulding (Jennifer and Marks son, adopted by his half sister Amanda), Stacy Chamberlain (nice girl, but then her rival TBD reveals Stacy's birth dad is convicted killer Floyd Nelson); these two were the foundation of a new teen set that would have been preferable to endless mob war Santos clan and San Cristobel; the two stories that were the beginning of the end for GL.

YESSSSS, R245. I was always so confused by what they did do with Nola in the 90s, and Stacey should have come back, instead of Anthony, who they mysteriously called J and then cast with a young actor who couldn't have been less like either Lisa Brown or Michael Tylo had he tried.

In general you could say that what doomed all soaps were show-runners and writers who ignored the past.

Well, the networks and producers stopped writing actual stories and started writing generic advertising demographics. They lost all the people they had, and got almost none of the younger fans they thought they might.

The list of characters I would have loved for them to do something.....anything about, instead of the shitshow of strangers they brought on in the last ten years:

Peter Reardon

Stacey and/or Anthony Chamberlain

Any kids of Tony/Annabelle

Revisiting Jessie and Simon

Trish Lewis and/or her kids

Any of the Marler children

The original Jonathan (foster kid of Nola and Quint)

Hope Bauer and/or any of her other kids

These are just a few that I'm literally pulling from the top of my head. Characters that wouldn't have been total strangers or needed a complete rewrite to make part of the canvas (e.g., Ava).

I always found Nadine to be fun and, if she was in a scene, there was a chance that Frank would be there (sigh!). Anything for a glimpse of that body. But was he pendulous like Grant Aleksander? Who else on the show was hung?

I don't think Frankie was that hung. Who knows.

To me, it's how they act. Grant was the best actor on that show. Schemering in the Soap Encyclopedia wrote that his performance as a the 'flamboyantly alienated Phillip' was a stand out.

When he wasn't sleeping with Rick's girlfriends, Phillip seemed like a stand up guy, who'd have your back.

[quote]I don't think Frankie was that hung. Who knows.

I saw him once in person in Union Station in DC. He was wearing skin tight jeans. Not much in the way of basketude.

massive pecs though; the kind you could rest your head on while you fall asleep and his huge arms have you in a half hug you can't -- nor do you want to -- escape from.

I'd titty fuck him.

I just want you all to know that my Ga-Ga had this exact same coffee pot.

In response to mentioning Carl Tye Evans and Rick Hearst: They were both different personas and actors. One way to tell is that Rick took over for Carl, not long after Carl left, in mid-1990. The divorce between Alan-Michael and Harley was still fresh. That they cheated on each other. Carl and Beth Ehlers had chemistry. Rick and Beth had the more a believability, not so much chemistry, as exes rather than two who could find their way back to each other. It was good that [italic]Guiding Light[/italic] moved on from that as Ehlers had chemistry with Mark Derwin, who joined the series as Mallet shorty after Hearst. And Hearst had chemistry with Sherry Stringfield. Come to think—he had more chemistry with Elizabeth Keifer, who took over from Stringfield as Blake in 1992. Hearst did not have chemistry with Melina Kanakaredes. He did have chemistry with Amelia Marshall, but the interracial pairing that would have materialized was something [italic]GL[/italic] did not go for, and he had it with Sonia Satra. With Evans, he had it with Ehlers and Stringfield. He also had it with Paige Turco. So, this discussion of Evans vs. Hearst is more about preference. But, I see them as having represented two different perspectives. And the storyline changes for Alan-Michael were reflected in writing for Hearst during his six years on the series.

Another thing about Rick Hearst: He had the more gay-friendly appeal. People here have noted chemistry between Hearst and Frank Beaty. Of course, the show did not go [italic]there[/italic]. And I wasn’t paying attention to it in the mid-1990s. I wasn’t liking [italic]Guiding Light[/italic], let alone the rape of Lucy and the Brent/Marian storyline. But, having seen some uploaded content (to YouTube), I understand.

A smart cookie I knew said once that if the writers were going to bring back A-M to be with Harley then it should be Evans and if it were to be with Blake (by then Kiefer), then Hearst.

She's really nice and was a fan of the show from what I hear, but I could never warm to Kiefer as Blake.

I loved every actress that played Blake.

With Blake (Stringfield to Keifer), Alan Michael and Mindy I felt they did three good recasts where the essences of the character were still there but they had a more mature version.

I know some GL'ers don't like Keifer but I loved her, more than Stringfield. I have always been underwhelmed by Stringfield. A dusky voice and a bit of bitchery may dazzle some, but it does not equal grand range.

[quote]Another thing about Rick Hearst: He had the more gay-friendly appeal.

Not for this gay. Carl Tye should never have left. His Alan-Michael, we hardly knew ye.

R259, thank you!

This right here. Mmmph right in the gut.

Grant and Carl's last scenes together were very sweet. It wasn't the last time the characters of Phillip and AM would interact, but it was the last time these particular actors would.

It's not on youtube, but AM's prepping for wedding to Blake, which Phillip won't attend. He comes over and shows AM a letter he wrote when he was 10 that defended Alan.

It was a nice scene; GA made it a bit more emotional that maybe needed but as viewers we understood why. I think the actors in Carl's storyline - Grant, Beverlee, Peter Simon - helped make him a better actor.

Supposedly after a few scenes with Hearst in the role, Beverlee McKinsey said very loudly on the set, "Finally, we have a real actor in this role!"

Bitch didn't mince words!

I heard that story, too, R265; it might have been when AM was in the masoleum (sp?) mourning Phillip.

I don't think she went so far as to say 'in this role!' but sure, it was clear what she meant.

Young performers like Evans are brought in and if they manage to survive the first 13 weeks, producers have decided that they, worst case scenario, are 'enough'; they hit their marks, have some good days, but aren't actors so they are kept. It's up to the younger performer as to how much they'll grow, whether they'll get into a class and take it seriously or if they just care about the next p.a. on the weekend.

I don't think Evans was 'bad', but of course 3 time Emmy winner Rick Hearst is the superior actor. Here's a show in which Evans was solid; AM confronts Phillip after the Spaulding Gala where Alan was thrown out in the street; also in this episode, the last Bernau McKinsey scenes; all the history is played, the back and forth, the chemistry....just brilliant. To me, Bernau did not look terribly ill, tho others disagree.

Also, Sonni packs a suitcase, which is so much more compelling than some shows today.

I know that I'm going to get flambéd for this, but... sometimes pretty is all you need. Rick Hearst is a fine actor, but CTE was beautiful to look at and just what you wanted AM to be.

you won't get flamed by me, R267; I think the key to the success of Hearst taking over is that he was on for six months and then Phillip and Beth got written off and Alan was already gone; AM NEEDED to grow up; with Hearst in the part, that was easier.

Kimberlin Brown would have been a great Amanda Spaulding.

I don't think Amanda's adopted son Matthew (Jennifer and Mark's child) was ever mentioned during the period in which Toby Poser played Amanda.

They DeSORASED the Amanda character when Toby took the part in 1995. Amanda should have been about 40, but with Toby in the role, the character seemed about 25. I guess it would have been awkward for Amanda to have a teenaged adopted son, so they just ignored Matthew's existence.

In real life, Toby was 9 years younger than Grant. As I recall, she even went to the same high school that Grant went to in Baltimore, according to a SOD interview at the time.

McKinsey was such a CUNT! I’m so happy that she’s dead.

Carl Evans was handsome but I just don't get the love for him that he was some sort of god. Especially not next to my pendulous one.

I also thought he was a little too Noo Yawk/Guido for what one would expect from Alan Spaulding's boarding school son.

Well, r272, wasn't he from Long Island?

Carl Evans has small dick syndrome.

Evans was, but Alan Michael should have been more....I dunno, like Andrew McCarthy or Matthew Broderick esque, I always thought.

He was already there when I started watching GL. I thought he was fine, but I had no concept of who Alan Michael "should have been."

Good point R276.

It's like do they explain to the actors, okay, you're right; you grew up with your mother in NY; your dad wasn't around much; act like you come from money. ??

Morgan Englund completely overshadowed CTE when he showed up.

I always imagined they made A-M a little rough around the edges to better contrast him with Phillip, who was the Spaulding golden child. It would have been boring to have A-M be a preppy mini-Phillip. It made the sibling dynamic more interesting especially when A-M played the card that he was the true Spaulding heir as Alan’s actual son.

Why did Alan love Phillip so much? What was the back story there? How did Alan get him away from his real parents?

Chris Bernau made me cry in this scene. The father and son chemistry Chris and Grant had was so believable.

Chris Bernau was so in lust with Grant.

Chris got it up the ass so many times. He had THE aids.

R274, what do you mean by "small dick syndrome"? Please explain.

R278, did he?

"Sam! Feelin's is important to! Does your Dr. Daniel know that?"

Sweetheart of a guy, but a tad sedate for a child who is the product of Billy and Reva."

R280, I could go to soapcentral or pull my LaGuardia Soap World off the shelf, but I recall that Jackie didn't think Justin wanted a baby so she lied that she'd gotten an abortion.

In reality, she gave the baby up for adoption; meanwhile, Elizabeth had given birth to a stillborn child. Alan and a shady doc got ahold of Jackie's baby and presented him to Elizabeth as hers. I think she was in the dark for many years.

There was some odd mixing and matching with Jackie marrying Alan only to be close to Phillip, and perhaps Elizabeth did the same thing with Justin when -- I forget how or why -- Phillip was sent to live with him because his parents were so busy. Or maybe Phillip was left with Justin after he was already his stepfather and Liz left him? Not sure. I was barely Phillip's age myself.

Alan's love for Phillip went above and beyond the typical 'my son my son' stuff. I think the extreme feelings came out of the writers' relationships with their own dads. Seriously, Alan was so attached to Phillip he made Palmer Courtlandt look neglectful!

[quote] I could go to soapcentral or pull my LaGuardia Soap World

As long as you don't go to the Schemering, which has a lot of inaccuracies.

[quote] Alan's love for Phillip went above and beyond the typical 'my son my son' stuff.

A little Gothic and incesty, all of it. Alex loved Alan, and Alan loved Phillip.

LaGuardia wrote that Bill Bell was one of Irna's lawyers; that wasn't true, he worked in advertising.

Schemering wrote that Bill Lewis was born in '85 (it was Nov or Dec 84).

I've read both of them cover to cover many times; I can't find many other places where they were wrong.

I thought Schemering's analysis of shows was excellent and spot on.

Schemering had lots of small errors and a lot of what he wrote about Phillips was wrong.

(She was also secretive, which didn't make it easy.)

interesting, I'll have to re-read; It's funny I thought you mean Grant/Phillip when you wrote "Phillips"

here's part of an article on Irna that I've heard is considered to be one of the best

Imperial Soap Opera by Les White

if you're ever in Chicago try to go to the Gold Coast area and N. Astor Street; there's a sign post dedicated to Irna, a bio of her, script pages from Guiding Light; it's a nice tribute

After reading R290 -

Well, Irna's definitely considered queen of the soaps now. That's not disputable.

Hearing about Christopher Schemering always sends a chill up my spine. I could have called him anytime I wanted, and maybe hung out, because he lived just around the circle from me. But I was too shy.

A few years later, a new friend of mine moved into a gay sobriety house, and when I went to visit him, he said "You'll like this. You like soap operas, right? Well, this guy who writes about them lived here. LIVED here. He just killed himself." And my friend took me to see his room, which still had all his stuff in it, including at least one copy of The Soap Opera Encyclopedia. I was spooked. I've wondered at times whether, if I'd called him at some point, I might have taken him to an AA meeting (I was a member), and he'd still be alive.

"Just because we differ on this one issue---" "ISSUE? Is that what you think Peter is... an issue? HE'S MY CHILD. He's my CHILD. He is what Michelle is to you." "This is also the child that Bridget would have kept if Maureen hadn't died."

DAMN!!!!!

R293, tragic.

You may have helped him, maybe not. Who knows?

I met him a few times at soap events, a talk show in New England for the Encylopedia; and in NY for a Guiding Light tribute; he signed the GL book for me; in the mid-90s, I went to an estate sale in LA; the deceased I was told died of AIDS; he was a big soap fan and I found a signed Encyclopedia by Schemering.

Life is short and precious.

R294, that scene is so great.

And so much a mystery as to why they never brought Peter back.

Christopher Schemering died October 2, 1990. He was 39. I never knew the circumstances. I just came across the report in Soap Opera Digest.

Schemering was a flaming homo.

R298, as opposed to all us macho jock stars on this thread, who can quote soaps chapter and verse?

Ignore her, R299. That poster is mentally ill and posts a hundred posts along those lines, with an occasional post here and there telling us who clogged the toilets. Truly demented, damaged human being.

Many of us have R298 on "Ignore." When you respond to him, R299, we end up reading him.

Bert Bauer’s leg got flushed down the shitter.

The 1987 Bauer barbecue with SUPERSTAR Lacey Bauer!

Also, one of the few times Rick Bauer actually looked really kinda hot (around 17:00)

And the 50th anniversary scenes at the end...(this was the 50th anniversary week, when they had scenes at the end of each episode).

Another 1987 anniversary week show, with Shirtless Rusty at the beginning and another 50th Anniversary Favorite scene, this time the Nola/Kelly confrontation.

OMG, the R304 clip I just posted for two reasons:

(1) Bev has brown hair in it (!!)

and

(2) OMG, that beard on JWS at the end. Fuck.

So funny that one of these women would end up writing for the other!

My god, JWS looked mighty hot in that 1987 episode.

R301, sorry I didn't know that responding to the poster would call him up for everyone who had him on ignore; moving forward, I'll not do that.

Let me contribute this: Bert's prosthetic leg was named....Edith.

Maureen's death has been uploaded in amazing quality. In a few days, this episode will be 25 years old.

Good fuckng riddance to the most boring character ever on GL - Maureen. Bitch deserved to die.

I hated that Mindy.

R304 Anal Spaulding was SUCH a homosexual. Shame they couldn't have done something with it.

Yes, R313. All the stress relief he needed was a weekend with shirtless, dongful Rusty.

Serial psycho asshole moron no life no friends needs to be readmitted to the psych ward. And take ugly Garbage Man and Dizzel dumbo ears and lip mole with you. Assholes.

Young Joshy was way to hot for Beva.

They should have paired Josh with Jenna Bradshaw and have Jenna go off her rocker when Reva came back. Then Annie could have been paired with Buzz and ran the diner, and become Harley's step mommy!

The guy who played Rusty cruised me in Greenwich Village way back when.

R319 = Anal Spaulding

Josh was everyone's hot DILFy dad. You can totally see why all the ladies went crazy for him. Literally.

[quote] The guy who played Rusty cruised me in Greenwich Village way back when.

He's supposedly a fundie.

I once called the actor who played Josh in the early days of the AIDS Walk. I was volunteering in the call center for GHMC. Despite the fact that this was a solicitation, he was gracious and generous.

Chris Bernau had the aids.

r321 He never did dick for my dick.

I wouldn't have turned him away, but he wasn't hot in the way, say, Grant Aleksandr or Frank Dicopolous were.

He was hot as fuck. His character was just dull. His character always depended on the actions of others. It was never his story. Then he just turned into half of Jeva.

Ron Raines was NOT Alan.

It would be like recasting Palmer Cortlandt with George Hamilton. Sorry, he just wasn't.

is there a current GH thread? any help?

R330 Here you go

r331

thanks

I still remember the last time they ever showed Roxy on the show, though I don't know what year it was. She had been dating Johnny, something had happened to his character so she was running ragged between her job, taking night classes, going to the chapel to light a candle for Johnny, etc. And it all got to be too much for her, so the last time she was seen she was in some kind of a padded cell, staring at a window and muttering to herself "look at all the pretty birds!" I liked Roxy all right, and I remember thinking the guy who played Johnny Bauer was cute. But it seemed like she deserved a better send-off than to be committed to a loony bin.

Roxie never coming back, never being recast, etc. was one of the most confusing things about later GL.

Especially when they could have brought her back instead of bringing on Cassie.

That was the first thing I thought when they created Cassie seemingly out of thin air. Where the hell is Roxy? At least Rusty came back a few times here and there, like Sarah and Hawk did. I grew to like Cassie all right because Laura Wright has always been a good actress, but I felt like I already had gotten to know Reva's sister, and this one wasn't her.

[quote] because Laura Wright has always been a good actress

Oh! My sides!

Laura Sisk, I mean Wright, the Gas Station attendant a good actress? She's nothing but a hair cut and an snarl.

It's a travesty that bitch has an Emmy when McKinsey never got one.

McKunty didn’t deserve an Emmy. Laura Wright does deserve her emmy.

Beverlee was awesome. She should have won at least one.

R337, please. She does nothing but overannunciate and flail her arms about.

She swings her arms so much she nicked Judge Judy's cornea.

She snarls; she gives nothing back to any female co-stars.

I can't believe she's lasted; zero chemistry with Maurice.

Oh, as far as Cassie went, Sarah Shayne NEVER would have given up a child; she would have gone to HB for help.

She has technique on a good day, but no real heart.

A lot of GL women did great bitch.

Here's a bitchy exchange between Alexandra and Reva.

It really was, for quite a long time, a really sophisticated, nuanced show. At least in soapland. The last five years it just fell to complete shit. I'd thought there'd be more love for Blake here. I really loved her.

Wait a minute... you could request to see old scenes for GL's 50th, and the viewers asked for a scene with Kelly *fully clothed*??!!??

I can't believe viewers voted for the scene where Rick and Phillip argue over Beth; they'd have chosen Beth is crowned Prom Queen and dances with Phillip.

I didn't like Elizabeth Dennehy much as the first adult Blake, the character or the actress. Sherry Stringfield was phenomenal as an actress, but the way she played Blake never inspired me to root for the character, more like I always enjoyed rooting against Blake and whatever she was cooking up. In her take on the character it was all about being very manipulative, seemingly not having much of a conscience or caring who she betrayed, and making sure to point her huge bazoombas as the screen every chance she got. As a gay guy I'm not sure if I ever spent more time inadventently noticing a woman's tits as I did in the years SS was Blake, because I watched a lot during that time so I associate her with the role then. Liz Kiefer did the role for so long that I think she will be remembered as the primary Blake, and once she took over I found myself more sympathetic to her in a way a lot of the long-term characters played by the same person could pull off, relatable and not just a bitch. Which was your favorite Blake R341?

my favorite was Sherry; she had FUN with the part;

Liz D is a fine actress (she played the warden's daughter or secretary on GL when Lujack was in jail for killing Andy Ferris)

But she didn't have the right coloring and I didn't buy her as Holly's daughter; I did with SS

Liz played it so safe. And Blake was never safe.

Sherry was my favorite. She took every scene she was in. She was just a pure bitch and was fun to watch. I did like every actress they had in the role and my favorite Blake scene isn't with Sherry. It's the no love story with Holly. When Holly pretty much admits she never wanted the pregnancy or the daughter. It was a great scene.

here's a great scene; Phillip looks like he was really going to tackle her if those guys didn't hold him back.

and here's another;

the bit with Alex and the door at the top doesn't really work b/c blake is standing way too far back; if she were closer, the door would have hit her.

but it's a great scene.

here's an episode of GL from Dec. 1989

Can anyone go to the end of the show, just before the end credits and tell me what's unusual about the Y&R promo?

R349 they're showing Monticello and not Genoa City.

Maybe but the promo shows EileenD, Terry Lester and Thom Bierdz

They were all off the show by December '89

The Y&R ad is showing the skyline of Monticello that Edge of Night used. Also didn't use the traditional Y&R logo.

Does anyone know where the old soap opera tapes are? I mean who owns the rights and who physically has the tapes? I know the soap opera network used to show old episodes of soaps when they existed but only a few. I imagine they could be packaged and released to the general public like old movies. They're a goldmine if marketed properly but the audience for this type of thing is fading fast if you know what I mean. I never understood why they've been hidden away.

R349 Seeing Jess Walton trying to gleefully camp it up as Jill in those 87-89 years is just painful to view now, even if she seemed quite an impressive recast at the time. She didn't have the natural "camptitude" to be able to be like that. I much preferred her from 1990 onwards when she was able to put more Jess into the role.

[quote] Does anyone know where the old soap opera tapes are? I mean who owns the rights and who physically has the tapes? I know the soap opera network used to show old episodes of soaps when they existed but only a few. I imagine they could be packaged and released to the general public like old movies. They're a goldmine if marketed properly but the audience for this type of thing is fading fast if you know what I mean. I never understood why they've been hidden away.

They're gone.

P&G taped over theirs. Marland's Snyder Pond and Eavesdropping Porch scenes could be taped over by the Everyone Lives at the Yardley Motel dreck Passanante and Scheffer gave us.

r353 You're really late to the party. This has been discussed many times before on DL. In quick summary:

P&G taped over their early tapes of soaps; they only started saving tapes in 1979. So, P&G episodes from that time forward are all that exist, save for a handful of episodes prior to that.

ABC had a warehouse fire that destroyed most of their soap tapes in 1978. So, tapes of ABC soaps from 1978 forward are all that exist, save for a handful of earlier episodes.

Complete collections of soaps exist for:

Any soap that debuted after 1979

Days of Our Lives

Young & Restless

Dark Shadows

The Doctors

The status of other soaps like Love of Life, Secret Storm and Love is a Many Splendored Thing is uncertain.

In 2012, there was a company named Soap Classics that licensed old P&G episodes of GL and ATWT and offered several DVD packages of 10 episodes themed around a certain topic like Reva or Phillip.

Those DVDs sold decently, but the company didn't do a good job of marketing them. Consequently, Soap Classics opted not to renew the license when it came up for renewal in early 2013.

The timing of the DVD releases was not optimal. The recession prevented many people, like me, from investing in all the collections that they might have purchased had the collections been released during a time when the economy was better.

You can still get some of the GL and ATWT DVD collections on Amazon or EBay.

I would pay for the Lemay years of AW.

[quote]The status of other soaps like Love of Life, Secret Storm and Love is a Many Splendored Thing is uncertain.

These shows were all syndicated to foreign markets and there is a strong belief that they are out there in some storage space somewhere, but no one cares enough to do the work to find them.

What I want to see is the real classic soaps, the golden age, from the mid 60s until the mid 70s. That is when soap opera was soap opera. Seeing the mid 60s The Doctors was a revelation. Rita Lakin wrote the fuck out of that show.

There's a whole lot of The Doctors on YouTube. I had never heard of it. I just thought I'd watch it to see another soap. I thought I'd watch maybe five minutes of it. I binged my way through every episode I could find. Even though I didn't have a lot of the back stories it was a great show that seems to have never gotten any credit.

The Doctors, along with DOOL and AW, was very highly rated in the 70s. But it fell faster and harder than AW did.

R358 You have the basics but not quite.

I think Soap Classics ran into issues with licensing and/or P&G pulled the license, so they were allowed to sell what they'd already burned to DVD, but it was shut down after that.

Nice to see R360 and R361 comments. The Rita Lakin version of The Doctors was great, even by today's standards.

[quote]ABC had a warehouse fire that destroyed most of their soap tapes in 1978. So, tapes of ABC soaps from 1978 forward are all that exist, save for a handful of earlier episodes.

I thought that was just AMC, but I could be wrong. But I'm pretty sure when SoapNet started running reruns of Ryan's Hope, they started from the beginning (1975) until about 1982, so they survived the fire.

I can't remember her name but when I was watching The Doctors on YouTube it got to the part where the story centered on one crazy lady who was great. I can't remember her name. A nurse with long blonde hair whose crazy came about because of the death of her baby. She was very good.

r364 Yes, it was the entire ABC soap tapes, not just AMC.

However, Claire Labine had her own collection of Ryan's Hope tapes that she kept at home, or in some storage warehouse. That's how SoapNet could air it from the 1975 beginning.

Her collection was not complete however. They found missing Ryan's Hope episodes on tapes in Ireland.

As r360 said, likely many missing episodes are stored away in foreign countries where the shows were syndicated, if someone cared enough to hunt them down.

The reason SoapNet didn't air RH beyond 1982 was that the show (and most of the soaps) started using popular music of the day (i.e., pop songs of the 1980s) in 1981 or 1982. If SoapNet had aired the episodes after 1982, they would have been required to pay music licensing fees.

Prior to 1981-82, almost all of the music that aired on soaps was original compositions commissioned by the soaps, so the soaps owned the music. There were a few exceptions, such as when Luke raped Laura in Oct 1979, they paid to use Herb Alpert's "Rise" as the background music.

When SoapNet aired classic episodes of GH, OLTL and AMC, they generally substituted other songs for the pop hits that originally ran.

In retrospect, was it a mistake to be so music dependent?

they couldn't have seen what was going to happen in the music world; it's too bad soaps got so expensive all around.

I remember at the opening of the Mona Lisa there was like practically the entire cast in one episode.

The issue with soap operas and popular music was that no one, even in the 80s, thought about there being a market for soap opera repeats. Soap Opera was always just supposed to be cheaply produced throw away programing that were cash-cows for the networks because they were mostly advertising. But it's not just soaps, there are a lot of shows that came out on DVD with different music because of music rights issues. I loved the show Daria, but the box set came out without any of the original music, so the box set was worthless to me. WKRP and other shows had similar issues. I want artists to get paid, but the music industry just fucks itself over and over again.

Music rights held up the DVD release of the Wonder Years until 2016, That show used 1960s and 1970s songs heavily. Probably 6-12 songs per episode. They finally got music clearances for about 95% of the songs originally used.

As for soaps, yes, they overdid it with the popular songs. Santa Barbara used pop songs more than any other show, but they all used them, especially in the early to mid 1980s.

But at the same time, they also edited some scenes to match the pop songs. And I now associate those scenes with the music. Some examples from GL:

Beth and Lujack riding the horse on the beach while Almost Paradise by Ann Wilson and Mike Reno plays.

Josh and Reva giving into their feelings for each other, while Springsteen's I'm on Fire plays.

Mindy and Kurt playing around in the thrift store while Katrina and the Waves' Walking on Sunshine plays.

Here's some useless but fun trivia regarding soaps and music:

Jill Farren Phelps first job in soaps was as music director at General Hospital in the early 80s, just as the show began using more pop music.

When Santa Barbara launched in 1984, JFP was hired as the show's music director. She is the one who decided the show would have a heavy dependence on pop songs and decided which songs to use, such Peabo Bryson's "If Ever You're in My Arms Again" for Joe and Kelly's love theme.

Of course, JFP rose through the ranks quickly at Santa Barbara and was named executive producer by 1987.

R371 exactly.

I still remember that when we started to see Sonni being more bad, there was a scene with Sonni and Will where she was dancing to "Peek-a-boo" by Siouxsie and the Banshees.

That asshole Serial nutjob keeps trying to make McCunty a Goddess. She wasn’t. She was an emmyless cunt.

I remember a scene that had the Dionne Warwick song Heartbreaker playing on a jukebox while two characters sat near it, and the woman had a line, something to the effect of "you remind me so much of this song." I'm pretty sure the female character was Hillary, guessing the man was Floyd maybe? Or Kelly? I'm trying to remember who Hillary hooked up with, or maybe had a crush on in 1982. Dionne had appeared on the show so maybe she let them use it so it wouldn't cost the show as much.

As for WKRP (I loved that show) the original licensing expired within 10 years of the show ending, so the first attempts at releasing the episodes bundled together in the early 90s used a lot of that crappy muzak, sound-alike songs which mortally wounded the show in syndication. Within the past few years Shout Factory managed to get the rights to most of the original songs, not 100% because there were a few holdouts. They even got the rights to Fly Me To The Moon, which always confused me why that would even be disputed because the only time that song was used was as the tune Jennifer's doorbell would play so it was just the opening notes, no vocals or original music with it. One notable song they couldn't get was Dogs, the Pink Floyd song playing in one episode where Mr. Carlson comes into the DJ booth, hears the song playing and asks Johnny if he hears dogs barking, and Johnny says, "I do". But Pink Floyd wouldn't let them use it, so they did have to keep using a similar sounding song for that scene. There was a message board I saw once that broke down every song played in each episode, and which ones they were able to restore, it was quite interesting and I could try to find it again if anyone wants to see it.

re: WKRP I found the master list, it's post #355 on the linked page, and every song printed in bold is included on the Shout Factory DVD set.

[quote] the original licensing expired within 10 years of the show ending

That's pretty standard. I remember they basically stopped running Ryan's Hope on SoapNet in the early 80s because the music costs to renew were way too much.

I get it, I do. I respect artists like David Lowery who fight for the musicians. And I think they should get paid. But too often the corporations are gouging anyone who wants to use the rights, and seldom does that money ever go to the musicians.

[quote]Prior to 1981-82, almost all of the music that aired on soaps was original compositions commissioned by the soaps, so the soaps owned the music.

Bill Hayes, Robert Clary and Patty Weaver sang everything from standards to contemporary on DOOL throughout much of the 70s. Probably one reason why, even though all the episodes have been saved, none have ever been commercially released.

You whores will LOVE this clip.

Alan Michael in shorts at the beginning.

Shirtless Frank in the show opening

Oooh....Alan Michael at 38:52, flashing hairy pits.

Celebrating 25 years since that boring old hag Maureen was killed off! Best decision ever.

(((((belch)))))

Never found Phillip hot. Always thought he looks kinda skeletal.

he had gay porn star face. Josh and Lujack made me toasty down there.

Josh, Phillip, Alan Michael, and Kelly Nelson all made me more moist than a snack cake!

I don't eat moist snack cake. And the guy who played Lujack should have been buried in Peapack-Gladstone.

it's too bad Nick didn't return to town with Susan and they played out Beth's reaction to Nick.

Susan's dying, she tells Beth to be there for him...it would have been a great story.

[quote]it's too bad Nick didn't return to town

No. Any show that does not contain Irizarry is better than any show that does. Do you join him every year to demonstrate against Roe v. Wade?

I always found Vincent Irizarry to be an annoying actor. I never cared for Lujack. He was ok as Nick when he first arrived, but that was more about Beverlee McKinsey's performance at the time. He was awful on every other show--AMC, Y&R, Santa Barbara....

R388, no, I don't. I just think it would have been an interesting story to see Beth's reaction to seeing Lujack's double.

Had Lujack not died, I think he and Beth would have ended up together; it was only because he wasn't around that Beth and Phillip found their way back to one another.

Had Lujack not died, I would probably have avoided watching GL.

I'm surprised they didn't have any story between Judi Evans and Vince's DAYS characters.

But thank God they didn't, R392.

I think the main reason they paired Beth and LuJack in 1984 was because Judi and Grant didn't get along.

After LuJack died and they repaired Phillip and Beth, John Bolger was playing Phillip, Grant didn't return to the role until after Judi left and Beth was presumed dead.

Why does r394 capitalize the J in Lujack?

I always got the impression that Grant and Vince didn't get along since Phillip and Lujack didn't share that many scenes together, despite being cousins. And let's not forget that when Grant returned as Phillip in 1996 and Vince came back as Nick for a few Christmas episodes, Phillip and Nick did not share any scenes.

Definitely a missed opportunity not to have Vince return as Nick in 2007 when AMC killed off his David Hayward character. So much story potential for Beth to have to confront her feelings for Lujack by meeting his twin.

As I recall, Vince had a meeting with Ellen Wheeler about returning shortly to GL after AMC killed him off. But then Y&R snatched him to play David Chow pretty quickly. And after Y&R killed him off, AMC brought him back as David Hayward pretty quickly. Snooze, you loose, Ellen.

[quote]Definitely a missed opportunity not to have Vince return

It is never a missed opportunity not to have Vince return. It is always a blessing.

Grant visited Judi and Vince on the DOOL set about a year ago, so if there were hard feelings in the past, they've gotten past them.

Vinnie I has eaten alot of pussy in his life. Grant was always devoted to his beloved Sherry whereas Vinnie was always on the prowl for pussy. And he found it quite often. Total pussy hound.

R396 Yeah, I remember that Susan and Nick left and LITERALLY, within a week, Grant was back. I was like, REALLY? They couldn't have had one day of scenes where they were like, Whoa? You look so much like Lujack!

Just so weird. One of those missed opportunities. Like when Dinah came back the first time (played by Wendy Moniz) and then Harley came back, and they forgot until almost the very last week Dinah was on screen before she left that oh yeah, Harley and Dinah are friends.

I used to think Morgan Englund was hot when he played Dylan, especially the first year or two he was on. I sort of forgot about him but I found this interview he did for Soap Opera Digest last year.

Morgan is aging nicely.

You can tell more as he gets older that Cloris Leachman is his mom.

That new The Resident show on Fox, the one that looks like yet another ER/Grey's copy, has Eleni #1, Melina Whatsersnatch as one of the doctors.

the audio sucks on this but it's a great scene with Grant, VIncent and Mary Kay.

I know VIncent was a big find and I have no problem with him as some posters (poster?) here do

but I do think Phillip mops the floor with Lujack in this scene; he preys upon Lujack's insecurities and plays him like a fiddle.

tho Mary Kay's India rolling her eyes over Beth Beth BETH! steals the scene

Go away Serial asshole retard nutcase.

Mary Kay Adams stole EVERY scene she was in.

She was one of a handful of actors who could hold her own with both presence and performance in a scene with Beverlee or Chris Bernau. Bernau in particular had great chemistry with her.

Why did Mary Kay Adams never come back for a long stint on any soap--she returned to GL for 6 months in 1990 and her stint as Neal lasted about the same time on ATWT. She is a an amazing actress-she more than held her own against Bernau, McKinsey and Liz Hubbard.

MKA also had a very unique look for soaps during that time period. She's wasn't stunningly beautiful, but she looked like money. She looked like someone named India and she looked like someone Phillip Spaulding was SUPPOSED to marry. Great casting.

MKA was fat.

MKA had weight issues; when she left in '87, she was a bit heavy; but when she returned in 1990 she looked great and when she came back circa 98 and 99, she looked great.

The show was NUTS not to pair her with Ben Warren (Hunt Block) and make them a power couple.

I agree with R406, she stole every scene she was in. She threw comedy in to her scenes. When Warren told India to tell Lujack why Warren and Alexandra broke off their engagement (it was because India slept with Warren), Mary Kay just spins on her heel and -- with Warren right beside her -- looks Lujack right in the eye and with a straight face says "irreconcilable differences."

Here's a scene she steals with lots of people in the room; it's Christmas, India's leaving to go back to Europe to see Dorie her daughter; she knows Phillip doesn't need her anymore now that he's been cleared of murder and it's breaking her heart. She looks him right in the eye and says in front of everybody that she's always going to love him in so many words and does not give a shit who hears it.

One of my all time favorite GL episodes, R410.

Why did Stefan Schnabel's character have such a WASPy name (Steve Jackson). Was that ever explained? Schnabel had a very thick German accent, they should've given him a German surname. Were they afraid that having too many German surnames on the show (well, in additon to "Bauer") was a touchy subject while the horrors of Nazi Germany were still fresh in people's memories?

R411, mine, too.

Pam Long wrote great stories. She timed them out well, too, so characters -- and viewers -- could enjoy the holidays; a week or so before this Christmas episode, they had a similar big group scene where Alex and Roger reunite (though Roger's still involved with Mindy) and as Alex and Roger walk out the room, Alex passes Mindy and (not knowing of the affair) says, "Goodbye, Mindy." (Brilliant delivery by Beverlee.)

Soaps have lost all this.

Now, Dina walks into the Underground and just happens to have a pic of Brent with her and torches the place.

And R413 Nick left that candle in the pumpkin burning as well...

I really wish this show was still on.

I miss my Joshy. Especially my young Joshy. He turned into a hot DILF though.

[quote]I really wish this show was still on.

Except in Springfield, not Peapack.

Young Josh's first episode.

Posted by the actor himself, I guess!

DILFy beauty

Joshy has had a solid career after Guiding Light.

A theater one, anyway.

r418 Thanks for posting Josh's first episode.

I'd completely forgotten that Josh was originally interested in Morgan, but there he was drawn to her in the very first scenes.

I was also reminded how amusing it was that despite Spaulding being a giant company, all the employee scenes took place in Alan's office. They used to do contortions to explain why various employees were suddenly bumping into each other in Alan's office.

He was beautiful.

There's that scene in the Disco!Opening where he's looking at someone's leg....Nola's?

What is with the Josh Lewis queen all of a sudden?

Crown me now. I brought him up. Others have chimed in. He was hot and a good actor. Too bad they teamed him with that Reva critter. I would have liked him with just about anyone else.

((((((( BELCH ))))))))

Did someone mention me?

I loved Josh with Harley. Was probably one of my favorite couplings for both.

Zimmer is one of those rare instances where staying on daytime really did fuck her career over. If she would have left daytime after The Doctors she would have easily had a primetime career. She had the right look and she made bold acting choices which would have played well outside of soaps. Shame that it never happened for her.

Meh. She was always big fish little pond.

Josh was never hot.

Now she's huge fish tiny pond.

[quote] Josh was ALWAYS hot.

Fixed

I loved Josh. He was hot and the stupidest man in soaps. Not only did he clone Reva, he kept marrying and divorcing her over and over and over. It was hilarious. As I recall, he even time-travelled back to the 19th century to marry her one more time.

I came close to writing some fan fiction where he killed her and then fucked a twink on top of her body.

It seems that most of the older actors on these soaps, especially the women, didn't do anything except make coffee and sandwiches whenever there was a crisis and talk about the romantic goings on of the young people.

Casting directors in Hollywood did not warm to Zimmer. She tried carping about her daytime emmys and they rolled their eyes. Her stint on Models Inc. was not memorable and the cast didn't warm to her.

They tried strangling her with wallpaper swatches on Designing Women.

She nailed her appearance on Designing Women as one of the 'rowdy' girls. Producers submitted that episode for the Emmys that year.

Part of this is all luck.

But the Bloodworth Thomasons (sp?) would have done well to have created a role for her.

I always thought Beth Ehlers was the one who was going to go mainstream.

She wouldn't be the first person to go mainstream who only knows how to play herself.

[quote] But the Bloodworth Thomasons (sp?) would have done well to have created a role for her.

They did. That's why she left GL.

But CBS insisted that they give the role they'd created to.....Marilu Henner. Yup, Kim was originally supposed to be the female lead in Evening Shade.

I remember that now...

no, just kidding; that was a waste; Kim would have been so much better.

but I think people who put in decades on soaps can have a great life; they have pensions, they're treated well while they're on the show;

and while a soap star might leave a show and get a series or two, they go years and years without working.

Take Mary Kay Adams for example; she did her three years on GL 84 to 87 and then left; her returns to GL after then were sporadic, never for very long; her summer to Christmas return in 1990 was the best; but they stupidly didn't know what to do with her in 98/99. Her returns after that were a few days here, a day there.

Had she just stayed from the time she got there she'd have had a 25 year run and a nice pension. I hear she teaches sign language now.

Fuk u Serial Asshole. MKA is a fat pig with no talent.

I loved India. She was just so original, that portrayal. MKA took what could have just been a new twist on Vanessa (as Vanessa was originally done) and made something unique with it.

A handful of portrayals really stick out for me with GL: Bev's Alexandra, Nola, original Vanessa, and for sure, India.

I hated McKunty and that stupid affected voice of her's.

Soon, we are going to CELEBRATE McKunty being dead for 10 years. She is not missed at all.

R446 Yes, you are like a broken record. We know. We've heard.

[quote]It seems that most of the older actors on these soaps, especially the women, didn't do anything except make coffee and sandwiches whenever there was a crisis and talk about the romantic goings on of the young people.

It seems that r436 has never been to the Springfield Country Club, particularly the powder-my-nose room.

[quote] Bert Bauer's Good Leg

What about my Third Leg?

r450 Show us, Grant.

We went to one of those GL Fan club events back in the late 80s in NYC and Grant seemed very glassy eyed and my girlfriend heard sniffling noises coming out the of the bathroom stall where Krista Tesreau was in.

[quote] Zimmer is one of those rare instances where staying on daytime really did fuck her career over. If she would have left daytime after The Doctors she would have easily had a primetime career. She had the right look and she made bold acting choices which would have played well outside of soaps. Shame that it never happened for her.

After seeing her [italic]Doctors[/italic] costar Kathleen Turner get big in movies after they were both in [italic]Body Heat[/italic], I guess she decided she'd rather be a bigger fish in a smaller pond.

I'm really surprised Dynasty didn't pick up Grant to replace Steven. They looked so much alike at the time.

R452 Oh yeah, all the NY soaps had a huge coke problem and GL and AMC were the worst.

[quote] Bolger was so hot. I would have loved to have wild crazy sex with him.

He was in the gay-themed movie [italic]Parting Glances[/italic] in 1986 along with a pre-[italic]Newhart[/italic], pre-[italic]Drew Carey Show[/italic] Kathy Kinney.

He's still hot.

Can we have proof, R458?

Beth Ehlers was either refusing to attend the fan club events, leaving very early or, if she stayed, mean girled it up with the Eastern Shore gas station queen in the bathroom of the Marriott Marquis. This went on for years.

[quote] Celebrating 25 years since that boring old hag Maureen was killed off! Best decision ever.

If it were a good decision, then the show would still be on the air.

R456, details please!

No way. General Hospital had the worst. By far. They let their top female lead go because of it.

R462 Don't exactly have the receipts but it's been mentioned several times. Zimmer wasn't a cokehead but I think she mentions it in her book. A lot of the younger actors were on it, as R452 stated. I think the woman who played Meredith was, too.

AMC was even worse. Walt Willey (Jack) has been very open about it.

All I can say is....you can kind of tell when an actor has done coke, or when a writer or producer had. And there were scenes on GL that you could almost smell the coke coming off the screen.

Kim Delaney.....sweet Jenny on AMC was so obviously coked out.

Charita used to steal our coke!

She'd do so many lines in her dressing room. We took a break on set and bitch took a razor blade and a dollar bill out of her wig and started cutting lines right there, right in the Bauer kitchen!

Why did P&G have such a problem with Pam Long trying to develop a Jewish core family (the Weisses) in 1990?

Didn't Demi Moore get so coked out of her head on the boat she fell and almost drowned?

I heard Kristi Ferrell got hooked on coke and ended up doing heroin which is why they had to finally let her go. Shame. I loved Roxie.

[quote]Why did P&G have such a problem with Pam Long trying to develop a Jewish core family (the Weisses) in 1990?

Because they're idiot you-know-what-im from Cincinnati.

Yeah, I don't know if it was P&G or CBS but someone had a big issue with the Weiss family. I believe that was the final straw for Long, who left soon after that - and after writing Reva out.

I remember that character. Very sexy. I think when they brought in Mallet they kind of had him doing what had been originally planned for Matt - being in Mindy and Harley's orbit. If I remember reading correctly, Mallet was originally meant for Mindy and Nick was intended to be paired with Harley.

When Mart Hulswit was fired, P&G offered the role of Ed Bauer to David O'Brien who was coming off a 12+ year stint as a similar character on The Doctors, Dr. Steve Aldrich. He turned it down because he was sick of playing a saintly doctor character. Also under consideration was the actor who played Ryan Connor on Texas (his name escapes me), but he was ultimately deemed top young looking.

what if Long had stayed through the 90s; Maureen never would have died and we'd never have had Amish Reva, Clone Reva, San Cristobel, Cassie....and the only "Buzz" would have been "Gimmee the buzz, gimmee the buzz..."

"If only..." really are the two saddest words.

I know that people adore Pam Long's stint. But in my opinion Curlee/Reilly/Demorest was GL at it's finest. The show felt alive and modern during that time period. There were bold characters and dynamic storylines all based in the classics. Those three were head and shoulders better than anything that Pam Long came up with.

I think I soured on Pam Long when she created that Annabelle's mother storyline that had so many plot holes and history retcons that I just could never warm up to anything else she wrote.

Annabelle's mom! that was one of her first storylines!

I hold Alexandra, India, Sonni, Miss Sally, Will Jeffries and Harley Cooper over Elani, Hart, and Kat any day.

I think Curlee Reilly and Demorest were great, but they didn't last; Jim quit and went to DAYS.

I hate all the Buzz, Marj, Tangie, Crampton as Mindy stuff that seemed to go on for a decade even tho it was only a couple of years.

And then even worse than Crampton as Mindy was that Ann Hamilton as Mindy.

Looking at that first episode of Josh perving over Morgan #2 it was like he was perving over Mindy. She looked pretty similar to Mindy.

Jim Reilly was a fat slob who farted constantly in the writers room. We tried to get him to change his diet but no such luck. He had bad body odor in addition to his constant flatulence. We were glad when he left GL.

There was never a same-sex relationship between two male characters.

Had [italic]Guiding Light[/italic] the courage, who would have made for a great pairing?

r472 I think our timeline is off.

Mart Hulswit was fired in 1981 and recast fairly with Peter Simon.

The Doctors lasted until Dec. 31, 1982, the same day that Texas aired its final episode. David O'Brien was with the show until the final episode and played Steve Aldrich for a total of 15 years.

Can't blame O'Brien for wanting a break from playing a good guy doctor, but the point is, he would not have been available to play Ed in 1981 when Mart was fired.

Mart Hulswit was born in 1940, making him 41 when he was fired in 1981. Peter Simon was born in 1943, which made him 38 when he was hired to play Ed. David O'Brien was born in 1937, which would have made him 44 if he had been cast. Of the three of them, Mart definitely looked the oldest, while Peter looked the youngest.

Phillip Clark, who played Ryan Conner on Texas, was born in 1941, so he would have been 40 in 1981, but did look younger. He was still under contract to Texas in 1981, so it would have been difficult, but not impossible, for P&G to cast him as Ed.

When did Glenn Corbett leave The Doctors? Is it possible he was under consideration for Ed?

R479, the closest GL had to a male/male relationship was Phillip and Rick.

Personally, though, I found O'Leary's joker persona a bitch much. A few times it was funny but then it go overbearing.

He was okay when Rick found out about Phillip and Meredith, actually very good. But he'd yell on the dramatic stuff and to me it felt forced.

I found the Phillip/Alan-Michael relationship more interesting. The writing was wonderful. Carl Tye Evans wasn't the best actor, but there was something in his naivety that made it all work.

A-M observed Alan telling Phillip he was always the one and then, after Alan left, Phillip saw A-M and said he didn't mean it; A-M said he did but he felt sorry for Phillip and realized it was no fun being the object of someone's sick obsession.

[quote]Had Guiding Light the courage, who would have made for a great pairing?

If not Philip and Rick, Alan Michael I and Dylan Shayne Lewis.

There was a pretty famous or infamous scene during the Long years where Phillip and Rick were reconciling after a fight (may have been over Meredith) and one gave the other a teddy bear. It was about as bromantic as they got but both Grant and Mikey O'Leary talked about it for years.

I stand corrected, it was a lamb.

Rick BAUER should have been a more important character than Phillip Spaulding. Casting O'Leary was a big mistake but he was seen as better than Phil McGregor who came off as a puppy dog with a crush on Phillip. If only GL had snatched up Michael Knight to be Rick before AMC got him for Tad!

R479 there were so many missed opportunities for something like that, but I would have even settled for a Remy and Cyrus pairing (to counterbalance the Otalia storyline) in the final years. I mean, at that point what did they have to lose? I'm pretty confident Murray Bartlett would have been down for some dark meat, and it might have even convinced me to watch that last summer it was on.

One of the few times I remember the show even mentioning gay men was sometime back in the 80s, when they brought some day player on for an episode or three who had AIDS, and had a scene with him and a few of the hospital characters ... I want to say in the garden on the roof of the hospital? Jesus I haven't thought about this in years. It was over so fast, like a "very special episode" or an afterschool special type of thing. Any of you remember it better than I do?

Oh for christ’s sake. Not every male character has to be gay. Gays on soaps have a bad history, even to this day because the target audience of women 18-49 are not interested in gays.

[quote]Not every male character has to be gay.

Just asking for three, not "every," FFable cunt.

R487 The day they did that swimming scene, I totally knew Murray was gay.....even before the photos of him came out in the press and he came out in print.

The way he acted around Lawrence St Victor was just.....well, obvious.

Lawrence is so much more built and cut than that scene reveals.

I've met him a few times; he's very friendly and nice.

John Conboy died on Friday.

He was EP on GL for about a year, 2003-2004, but is best known as the original EP for Y&R from 1973-1982, and then created his own soap, Capital, which lasted for five years.

Capital was good and deserved better than the treatment the network gave it. One of the hot young stars posed for palygirl but I can't rmemeber his name.

I read that B&B never got the numbers Capitol did; B&B hit #3 in 1990, but by then overall numbers were slipping.

I heard Capitol's budget was out of control; the show was on for five years and had I believe five head writers. That's just too much.

Great finale, though.

I heard James Lipton was asked if Sloane was killed or not and he said I'm never telling!

I had no idea John Conboy died.

And the secrets of a lot of daytime cock died with him.

Conboy had alot of daytime cock. Just ask Marty West.

McFlimsy was awful. Always phoned it in. I don't get the adoration you gays have for her.

I wonder if Conboy got Marty to sit on his face one last time.

You still need to eat more pineapple, Marty.

I think Conboy enjoyed Marty’s mussy juice, too, R499.

And now he's dead. Like Marty's career.

When Marty played Shayne, it always seemed like Shayne wanted to get into daddy's pants.

They should have turned Shayne into an Andrew Cunanan type serial killer.

Original recipe Vanessa was so wicked. No man was off limits for her. Especially married ones. She would outwardly flirt with Ben in front of Amanda. Those early scenes showed Maeve Kinkead's dark haired beauty and I who had remembered her as Angie Perinni on AW loved her far more in this role.

I loved Vanessa but yes, early Vanessa was amazing. And too covered up in later years.

Vanessa really lost her edge when Long turned her into a pathetic pill popper and ran over Reva on that snowy night.

Yeah, as much as I liked Pam Long's stuff Vanessa suffered terribly under her writing. She got a bit more interesting when she was dating Alan, but then they went through the whole Alan recast thing when Chris Bernau died, so.....

It wasn't until the Curlee era that she became interesting again.

I will say this: as terrible as Megan McTavish was, it was during her regime that they finally got a hold on how Dinah should have been presented, and did what they should have done years earlier. Don't know if that was network, writer or producer talking, but Dinah, along with the Reva/Annie conflict, was probably the best thing to come out of the 1995-1997 time frame.

Oh when Reva got ran over. That was a good day.

And when she jumped in the river

Kinkead did her job.

^THAT was a job?

OMG that scene where Reva was shrieking at Vanessa saying how she had killed her baby and Vanessa was tearful and apologetic. The REAL Nessa would have told that slut to get over it.

They sort of gave all the Vanessaesque stuff to India.

GL ***did*** have a bad habit of making their characters samey samey. India was another Vanessa and Alex. Harley was a baby Reva, and in some ways, Blake was too.

Early Vanessa would have schooled India. They would have made great bitchy allies if Vanessa had kept her snobby edge. I remember a tv guide article with Maeve where she was upset that the writers were making Vanessa 'less capable' and dumbing her down and how uncomfortable she was with it. Marrying her off to Billy Lewis was just stupid. All that bluster and over the top shrieking were off putting. Trish and Josh were Lewises and never like that. The only one I could tolerate it with with was Mindy who I adored.

I remember when Judi Evans was the original Beth, but I never liked the character much until Beth Chamberlin started playing her. She (BC) was a good actress I thought and held her own no matter who her scene partners were.

EXACTLY, R511. Billy was right when he told her she’d been turned into “a pathetic excuse for a woman.”

R514 Me too. Always liked Beth Chamberlin much better.

It seems like BC should have been nominated for an Emmy at least once before the last year, but I guess that was her only time.

Does it get more gay than this promo?

Beth Chamberlain’s deep voice took a lot getting used to those first few months.

RE: the scene where Reva ripped into a pathetic Vanessa; 'your baby is alive...and laughin' and breathin' and MY BABY is DEAD and YOU KILLED IT!"

HB tried to console her, but she said "HB! Our baby was a miracle!" (Ouch!)

Later, Miss Sally entered ...with a secret. Billy had talked about Miss Sally a YEAR prior. Pam knew how to set up a character.

that was the clip they showed at the Emmys one year for Best Writing; in that episode, Lujack's verdict was read (guilty) and Beth is a hot mess; she vows to get everyone and free Lujack and India says "I've had enough. I've seen more compelling drama on late night reruns of Perry Mason!"

The other scenes were Rick yelling at a Betty Rae find day player hooker.

I was watching the Emmys and thought Oh, this has to win; but they read Y&R as the winner; I truly thought wow. what a mistake.

It turns out that was the year there WAS a mistake; the accounting firm fucked up; GL had truly won. (Bill Bell was PISSED, understandably). Pam got her statuette a few weeks later at a non televised ceremony.

I heard Doug Marland went there to support her. Doug and Pam should have tied that year.

GL was AWFUL in 1985. It deserved shit.

GL was OK in the first part of 85. But when Pam left it had that weird section of truly bad stories in late 85, 86 etc.

They were using some of her stories and some stuff other writers did, like Sampson Girl (!!) and Infinity (double !!!!)

How does R522 remember things like what year certain stories aired? Fascinating to me. I watched GL all these years but I wouldn't remember when anything occurred.

Because I was a teenager trying not to kill myself through the repeated cycles of bullying and abuse, R523.

I was aware that GL and ATWT were just shows, but for me, it was a lifeline that kinda sorta kept me alive. It would be ridiculous to say they were my family, but it made me hopeful that someday I might be around people that would treat me like I was family.

So yes, I remember when, and where, and how. It was my little world, and I remember my trips there.

(I know your question wasn't necessarily hostile, but that's an honest answer.)

Big hugs, R524. I hope you found your family.

I love you, r522. I felt the same way about AMC and RH. They were my family and my means of escape from daily bullying and derision. They were my safe places where I could be accepted for who I was. Sure on the surface, soaps are probably the stupidest form of entertanment, but if you scratch beneath the surface, you find, at least with the better shows, that they're about family and community connections, something many of us gay outcasts yearned for as we were being teased incessantly for not fitting in to the lives we were born into. I know, I know....MARY!!!

I felt the same way too. I don't think it was sub par entertainment either. Lets see the nighttime crews put something on five days a week. Not only were they an addition to my family but me and friends used to talk about them like they were real. Sometimes people would hear us talking about them who didn't watch any stories(I'll always call them by what my grandmother called them) and they would wonder what kind of people we know. I know it didn't get much respect from the soap crowd but my favorite was Loving. I started watching that when I was 13. From the first episode when it premiered at night to the very last episode. I loved that show and was sad when it was gone. I still beat off to mental images of Trucker. I would have liked to get a hold of Tucker's third leg.

Thank you R525. I did in real life, eventually!

Pam Long Hammer used to fuck Jay Hammer. Imagine!

55 GWM here. I've been watching soaps since 1970. Soaps have been a constant in my life and have gotten me through some of the darkest times in my life. Went through a year-long depression struggling to accept my sexuality and soaps were a lifeline for me. During many break-ups, soaps were there for me. When I was being harassed out of a job for being gay, soaps were the only bright spot for me.

Soaps have also been with me for the great times in my life. Coming out, wonderful romances, great jobs. Yes, the characters feel like family to me. The soaps have always been there for me.

Happy 81st Anniversary Guiding Light!

The LIGHT is still there.

Dumbass Serial Mrntal case thinks that Meryl Streep should have appeared on GL as a favor to Maeve. What a stupid idea. Asshole.

I wish they'd do a reboot.

Given the rate at which they're "rebooting" nighttime shows, R533, maybe it could happen. Would P&G stand in the way if CBS wants to bring back GL or ATWT?

Probably, because P&G could fuck up a one car funeral

This is a crazy idea but I could see it working, reboot GL and ATWT for 13 week stints apiece, and while one is running the other show goes on hiatus, then switch them up. Similar to the telenovelas that are still quite popular on Spanish language TV, except these would be in English of course. They share a network timeslot and could potentially even share studio space with alternating sets. It could give them a chance to tell stories that have more of a resolution and bring back actors for shorter runs, which might be easier to schedule not only for the network but also the actors in question. If they're going to reboot Murphy Brown and fucking Magnum PI then why not do the same with some of the fondly remembered soaps? Beats another talk show.

The only reboots that would work would be Edge of Night or Dark Shadows. Maybe Capitol. Something with a hook that is a little more than a soap opera. I would reboot Love is a Many Splendored Thing. You've got diversity, San Francisco. I would make Laura and Iris fighting over the same man into Laurence and Iris - a brother and sister, fighting over the same man.

They are not going to reboot GL or ATWT. Their audience has died off.

But, R537, those would be much harder to pitch than AW, ATWT and GL which have much stronger built in audiences.

Would CBS be able to access AW and its characters?

I always thought Edge of Night was screaming for a reboot. It has the whole crime thing, they could make a few of the characters the children or grandchildren of former characters. Lori Loughlin is still around and come come back.

I could totally see that either in short bursts of 13 episodes at a time, or a soap that played somewhere every night at midnight.

r536 Intriguing ideas. From everything I've heard, P&G is not interested in being in the soap opera business anymore. But P&G is also reluctant to do anything with the soap properties it already has, such as licensing them.

The scenario you describe is similar to the online versions of AMC and OLTL. They shared studio space -- AMC taped for a month, then OLTL taped for a month. They even shared some sets -- Dorian's foyer also was the Chandler Masnion foyer. Dorian's living room was also the Courtlandt living room.

Doing the telenovella 13 week idea could work. They'd just have to have really compelling stories, because if one show was stronger than the other and therefore got high ratings, the lower rated one would ultimately get canceled.

ATWT and GL and AW reboots would have to air on network, during the afternoon. As has mentioned, the primary audience for those shows is aging and dying off. Those viewers would never find the shows on cable or streaming services.

I agree that Edge of Night or Dark Shadows could work as an 11 p.m. or midnight soap (USA Network even aired repeats of Edge at midnight from 85-89). Edge and Dark Shadows would seem like the only shows that could attract a younger audience to that venture. However, I suspect that the chances of a late night soap succeeding would have been greater 10-15 years ago. Nowadays with streaming services like NetFlix and Hulu, many millenials don't even have access to broadcast TV, let alone cable.

When I was a kid I bought the magazine Daytime TV; they had an annual with all the cast members of every show in it. Cast lists. I had them all memorized, even shows I didn't watch.

Back then, magazines were all we had; no internet, no message boards...

The soaps got me through a lot of difficult times too. I moved across country and in a way, the characters came with me because I could turn on the TV and there they were.

I have one of those memories where I just remember a lot of shit.

ONe of the soap mags recently wrote that Julianne Moore started on ATWT in 86 and I just shrugged, eh, 85, but whatever.

[quote]Pam Long Hammer used to fuck Jay Hammer. Imagine!

Yeah, I know!

Apparently Pam may not have actually been married to Jay. At least that's what some soap mag was insinuating.

[quote]The only reboots that would work would be Edge of Night or Dark Shadows. Maybe Capitol. Something with a hook that is a little more than a soap opera

I questioned this on a previous soap thread. You had some soaps whose identity was up front in the title: Edge of Night had mystery, Capitol had political intrigue, Ryan's Hope had the anchor family listed, General Hospital (at one time) and The Doctor's had their main focus right in the title.

But other soaps seemed to be titled more generically. ATWT, AW, OLTL, AMC, DOOL, GL... you could basically plug any characters, setting, or storyline under those titles and it still works.

That's not to say one style is better than the other. Just an observation.

The soaps should come back in 30 minute formats. Less cast, less confusing stories. I only watch Days when Will is on and I ff through this awful Stefan junk.

I had no problem following ATWT when there were 30 or more contract players and the show was an hour.

So much happened just from eavesdropping!

R492 Conboy was Capitol's EP, but husband and wife writing team, Stephen and Elinor Karpf, created the soap.

R493 You're probably thinking of Christopher Durham (?) who played the second "Matt McCandless." .. It was the June 1984 issue .. pubes, pits, and a couple of ass shots .. but nothing full frontal.

Why did they kill off Hillary Bauer in 1984? They could have just sent her out of town with a good job or something.

Did they have a on-air funeral for her? If so, it must have been sparsely attended since Bert was "out of town at the time" and Mike was already written off and Hope was living in New York by that time. Only Bauers in town by late 84 were Ed and Rick

The Springfield Cubby Hole contingent was there in force, though. Wardrobe department ran out of Birkenstocks and plaid shirts.

R552, here's a link to Hillary's funeral.

Bert, Maureen, Ed and a bunch of nurses were there; I only took a short look; I think it was really well attended.

I would have written her out. But Kobe was determined to put her stamp on the show. Hillary was considered to be a Doug Marland person.

Nola's got her arms crossed, almost defiantly as if she sees this as the end of not just Hillary but of an era, the Marland era.

By the end of 85, Floyd, Nola, Quinton, and Katie were all gone.

Hilary was so butch. She acted like a big ole dyke.

That's probably why she lost.

They ALL should have come back for Maureen's funeral in 1993.

Mike (Don Stewart), Hope (Elvera Roussel), Chelsea (Kassie DePaiva) and Bea (Lee Lawson) AND Claire (Susan Pratt).

Hope notes something odd about Lillian, why is she acting this way. She decides to stick around to find out and help with Michelle. Claire stays too.

It would have been a good shot in the arm for the Bauers.

I liked Bea, I wished they had paired her up with Henry Chamberlain since for a while I remember the characters being friendly.

Henry Chamberlin was a big ole queen.

Yes, I think old Henry would've preferred to be paired with TONY Reardon.

[quote] Why did P&G have such a problem with Pam Long trying to develop a Jewish core family (the Weisses) in 1990?

[quote]Because they're idiot you-know-what-im from Cincinnati.

Yet they relented with gays on ATWT and lesbians here, so why was non-Christian religious belief an issue for them?

And you should go watch some of the credit rolls of both shows from the 1980s just to see how many Jewish and Italian surnames are in there.

Katie (Denise Pence) was Hillary's bf and she was not at her funeral? I knew Pence was fired not long after so yeah, it was a cleanse by that drug addict Kobe to rid the show of the Marland era. I'm sure Pence, Clark and others were vocal about the infestation of those horrible actors from Texas who were taking over the show.

For me, nothing was as frustrating in daytime soaps as when a character died and the funeral was attended by essentially just whoever was still a regular character, despite the fact they had a lot of close family.

That was something Doug Marland and Agnes Nixon were good at avoiding, r564--when someone like David Stewart or Kate Martin or Chris Hughes died, their loved ones returned for the funeral, just like real life.

Oh yeah. An AMC funeral was always a must see.

I don't have the incredible memories as some of the other people here, but I do seem to remember that during Marland's ATWT they would actually recast an old character in order to have them appear at a funeral.

Without prompting myself by watching a clip, if I think back on Henry's voice the closest comparison I usually draw is the gay doctor on Lost In Space, "oh the pain, the PAIN OF IT ALL!" I liked Henry though, he was dignified which helped make Vanessa seem that way too. Henry and Bea could have worked as a couple, though I have no idea where any kind of conflict may have come from to keep it more like a soap opera story. I was a bit surprised when Reva and H.B. hooked up, I would have been utterly shocked if she had slept with Henry too for some reason.

Funerals generally reflected how much the show valued a character.

Mac Cory's funeral on AW had several days leading up to it and many old characters returning.

The fact that Hillary's funeral lasted about 30 seconds at the beginning of the episode speaks volumes.

Im trying to think of times Marland's ATWT recast for a funeral...

They brought back Penny and the last Don for Bob and Kim's Wedding, Chris and Nancy's anniversary, and Chris' funeral. Mary came back for Chris' funeral too (and announced her pregnancy). So did Grant, but he made several appearances around then (as did Penny "in London," as did Amy).

Melanie Smith came back as Emily for David Stewart's funeral. Did they bring in new Betsy or any Dee or Annie for that? I know they brought in a new short-term Betsy (a brunette!) to drop off Dani as a teenager.

They DID have a recast Betsy at David Stewart's funeral. They even had her interact with Seth to establish her. And they did bring back the last Dee and the last Annie.

Thanks for the clip Jef Hamlin troll. That's what I like about the Marland years. They didn't just come up with a lame reason for a character not to be at the funeral. On a side note, I had completely forgotten about Julianne Moore's replacement. WHET her?

For Alice Horton's funeral in 2010 on Days, they recast the role of her son, Bill Horton, with Jon Martin.

It would have been completely bizarre for Alice's only living son to miss her funeral, but both actors who had previously played Bill had died.

Jon Martin was 20 years younger than the late Ed Mallory who was the only Bill who mattered. Can you imagine Jon Martin playing the husband of Susan Flannery - if she had been brought back to play Laura? She would have eaten him alive.

For Kate Martin's funeral on AMC they brought back Tara, Paul, and Charlie. For some reason they couldn't get any of the 601 guys who had played Jeff Martin to make an appearance. Tara said he was with a terminally ill patient whom he couldn't leave.

The Bert Bauer leg drinking game: Everyone takes a swig of booze out of Bert’s cut off leg everytime Ed Bauer says ‘Maureen’.

Bert's leg was more interesting than that painfully dull ugly frau Maureen. Best decision JFP ever made!

R559,. Doug paired them for a bit and they were paired when Phillip was dating Chelsea mid 87

Flannery could eat De Niro and Malkovich alive.

Flannery was only interested in eating pussy.

Did Sue eat out Joanna Johnson?

What was longer and girthier? Bert's leg or Philip's schlong?

Philip's schlong. His third leg.

Did someone call for me?

Did Phillip and his long schlong ever fuck Bert’s chopped off leg?

Phillip's 10.5 x 8.5 is pointing north today.

Springfield cocksuckers, get on your knees!

New combined P&G thread