Who killed River Phoenix?

Indiana Jones and the River Phoenix.

"...One of the high points was a teenage group from a family home in Miami. There they won the admiration of a CNN reporter and of President George Bush and Mrs. Barbara Bush. The video showed President Bush kissing some of the charming Family teens. Later, the same group sang at a Christmas open house at the White House. My old contact told me he agreed with the former President ..."

About a "Children of God" singing group performing for President h. W. Bush at The White House. Pg. 170 of "The Children of God: A make-believe revolution?" by Ruth Wengerin. 1993.

"...While Aykroyd is answering a question regarding invasion of privacy, Phoenix is stricken by thought and interrupts. 'What would you say if I told you that I’m a bigger patriot than George Bush? I can prove it. I can completely prove it.'

Everyone is breathless to see where this is leading. 'Not only do I live by the Constitution, which he doesn’t!' Phoenix waits but doesn’t get applause or laughter, so he stumbles ahead. 'And not only do I have allegiance to our founding forefathers, who had a lot of sense, not like their sons, um, but there’s a constant lifestyle that backs that practice up.

He raises his voice to emphasize passion, like an orator new to stage. Phoenix is an actor who needs a script and director to be inspiring. '…It’s, it’s, it’s really a farce, the joke’s on the masses that are on their hands and knees before the cross and before the flag, because they’re crossing lines, um, this whole new world order I think is, is real, real terrible…um, idea…'

Phoenix is going nowhere and Aykroyd tries to rescue his partner. 'Uh, but you know, Europe is fighting that now. You see they didn’t go for the one currency in Europe and they’re not going for the common market, really…'..."

"A Conversation with River Phoenix and Dan Akroyd" by Michael Cartel. The Valley Vantage, 1993.

John Bottom "Phoenix", "Archbishop of Venezuela".

+tired of all the idiots worshipping some dead rich kids who ODed on drugs cuz they had more money then sense

there are many poor young people who die all the time from suicide,homelessness and unemployment

why don't you make threads about them?

oh noes,another waste of space daddies boy oded,why oh why ;-;

who the fuck cares

Did you know Julian Assange grew up in "The family"?

R8 You really think that's all this is about?

Here's the official story:

Judy Davis dressed up as Judy Garland for Halloween night, waited for River in the Viper Room toilet and then personally administered the fatal orderdose, taking him Over the Rainbow.

"12 April 2000 - letter, sent from former member and anti-cult activist Samuel Ajemian to then President Bill Clinton and his wife Hillary Clinton, informed the Clintons that The Family Singers were representatives of The Family International, and described past and current Family doctrine in graphic detail. At the time this letter was written, The Family Singers had performed at The White House every Christimas or Easter for several years"

Even if Assange wasn't in the cult (which sounds like speculation to me).

Rose McGowan's Father ran an Italian chapter of Children of God.

Didn't drugs kill river phoenix?

River Phoenix was killed as Johhny Depp and Joaquin's sacrifice. Illuminati, people. Wake up.

The new world order speech was given on 9/11?

Assange's Australian "Family" were a different cult to "The Family of God".

It was a very esoteric group centred around cult leader Anne Hamilton-Byrne that sprung out of the Thoesophical Society in Melbourne. It had a lot of very high ranking and influential members who facilitated Hamilton-Byrne adopting lots of children who had their hair died blonde. The children were then isolated in a special school to be trained as future spiritual world leaders. The poor kids suffered terrible abuse.

R19 looks like Roy Orbison was in that cult as a child

R19 bleaching a child's hair is perfectly normal; it's the most loving thing you can do

what killed river was his slamming down a drink some fool gave him loaded a “speedball” of heroin and cocaine dissolved into a drink before chasing it with Valium which he did not know. idiot.

r21 It certainly is!

I don't get the Rose McGowan connection?

People put heroin in drinks? It seems like this must be a bad idea, or they would be doing it all the time. How does it compare to other ways of taking it? Do you need more? Less?

R24 McGowan's father was in charge of an Italian branch of the cult and River's father was in charge of a Venezuelan branch. There have long been notorious connections between "Children of God" and Washington politicians who are members of "The Bohemian Grove" club (the senior Bush was a member, as was Bill Clinton) where there were allegations that this, particular cult was providing child prostitutes to the club. The cult provided "singers" to The White House during President Bush the Elder's reign and also sang for The Clintons when Bill was President. For reference, "The Bohemian Grove" is located in San Francisco.

Then there's the weird connection between Depp, Marilyn Manson and Mcgowan. Depp made a documentary very shortly after River's death, starring John Frusciente during his period of severe drug addiction. It is rumored that Frusciente gave River the drink but had been given it by someone else who must have put the drugs in the drink first. At the time, "The Viper Room" was owned by Depp and was known to be a meeting place for organized crime in the area, as it had been under previous owners.

In Depp's documentary is Timothy Leary, the "godfather" of his girlfriend at the time, Winona Ryder, who grew up in the San Francisco region "Rainbow" cult. Leary had been dogged for years overalleged unethical use of LSD on human test subjects. In Depp's documentary, it appears Leary is sort of "mentoring" Frusciente, in what, we don't hear him say.

R26 Depp and Manson are very close friends and had a band together. I don't think that was made clear.

By the way, this was the song being played on stage as River was dying in Johnny's band "P" with Gibby Haynes, on that night Flea was playing with them:

FF OP

FF R1

I think Winona grew up in the Oregon out-branch, the "Rainbow Family". I think this was only loosely associated with the San Francisco center because of the free structure of the group.

R29 And? I'm sorry to taint the gleam on your President Bush shrines but there are some shady things revealed in that speech. Remember, Muammar Gaddafi met with David Berg after possibly having a sexual relationship with on of his daughters. Who strongly pursued the assignation of Gaddafi? Hillary Clinton.

You can use the FF button on the OP multiple times using the incognito mode on Chrome.

If we all do it like five times, this idiotic, paranoid, thread started by a mentally ill scumbag will go away.

Thanks!

R32 That's something a mentally unstable person does. If you are uninterested in the topic, just ignore it and me. I hope you lose posting privileges for abusing the f&F button.

If the Jews had as much power as antisemites think we do, Soleil Moon Frye would be A-list.

R32 And for that matter, even a vanilla mainstream paper like "The New York Times" reported on the Argentinian office of "Children of God" raids that happened shortly after River's death.

You are an ostrich if you think people shouldn't at least look a little deeper at the possibility that a credible witness was killed to protect a corrupt power player, either in the community or in Washington. It would be fundamentally irresponsible to refuse to question anything your leaders do.

R25 Alcohol intensifies the effects of heroin, ingested heroin is dangerously stronger. The reason addicts inject over ingest is because they want a high. Ingested heroin is processed too quickly, so the effect doesn't last. You don't get high, you just get a dangerous spike of effects. Also, cocaine immediately breaks down after it's consumed so you usually can only trace it on someone by residue or a toxicologist knowing by seeing what appears to be metabolized cocaine. However, this can't be admitted as evidence because other things can produce the same.

What River drank was poison.

Anjelica Huston and her crazy cult did it.

R37 We should consider how weird it is that "Children of God" connections keeps emerging in really unlikely places.

Who prepared that drink? No experienced drug user would dump that much Persian brown in there because first, they'd know it would mean no high and second, it would mean certain death for even the heaviest and most experienced user.

It's also important that people know no track marks were found on the body and the drugs had all been consumed at once and were in the stomach. That's the official report. You can discount the autopsy report but if you're willing to do that, you can't credibly mock anyone who questions the official story as a tinfoil-hatter.

And to those who say "Who cares?" you must just be a Nihilist because then, what's the point of anything, then? If you think it's unimportant that we uncover if private citizens are being killed to cover the nefarious deeds of powerful leaders, then I'm really not concerned with your opinion because you might as well just say nothing matters, so what's the point of debating?

I seem to remember a report that said the speedball was snorted...

Apologies for the redundancies in R40.

R41 No, the coroner wrote ingested, which would match the story Samantha Mathis told to William Richert.

Does anyone else think the next series of Feud should be River Phoenix and Judy Davis?

R41 And he may have wanted a high but whoever prepared that drink knew he would die from drinking it.

No matter how often the demented troll says it, it wasn't Judy Davis.

R44 Here's the plot summary:

What's also odd, is that in February of 1993, River officially changed his last name to "Phoenix" from "Bottom" and took his father and brother out of his will. His father had chosen the last name "Phoenix" when they left Venezuala and arrived in Florida. He claimed it was for a new start but apparently, River had not officially changed his name but used "Phoenix" as a screen name until it became official in February of 1993.

What's also odd, is that in the autopsy, it was revealed that he was thin but healthy. He had no diseases, there was no evidence he was taking medication for anything and the state his body was in at his death -- though he likely dealt with an addiction previously -- was in line with reports that he was just gaunt as a method approach to his part in "Dark Blood". He wasn't otherwise ill and the autopsy seems in line with reports by Sluizer that he'd been clean for at least a month.

I do have to correct this: The autopsy report showed signs of cold medicine use but not metabolized alcohol. Which is odd. Had he taken the drink at the club perhaps thinking it was something else? However, that would also mean there wasn't alcohol present to enhance the Persian Brown. Yet, the coroner made it clear that he had died from rapid ingestion of too much of the drug.

R49 Mathis made it clear he'd just been "living off artichokes" for weeks, in order to mimic the look of a hermit who just lived off what he could catch and grow in the desert.

R50 Where did you find this autopsy report? Is it available online?

R52 Yeah, let me find it and post it.

Please, I beg all of you. FF this mentally deranged idiot.

Thanks.

Go away r54.

The identity of the guy who gave River Phoenix the drugs that finally killed him was known immediately. It was no secret. But no charges were brought against him because neither one of his screwy parents had any desire to do so. His mother "Heart" was especially loony. She figured it was just River's time to do and that he wasn't a drug addict (talk about denial) and that if he did overindulge in drugs it was only because that was his way of protesting what was being done to the environment (?). At his memorial service she and others talked about him like he was an 80 year old man who had died in his sleep. Sick of the denial, the director John Boorman finally stood up and said. “Is there anybody here who can tell us why River took all those drugs?" His mother and sisters nearly shit a brick; they did NOT want to face the reality of his sordid death.

I thought, "oh, what the hell," and clicked on R31's link.

The person running that blog has terrible grammar and syntax. They also assert, as if it were fact, that the Jesuits run the world's intelligence agencies.

!!!

Or, River was a junkie and died of a drug overdose

R58 Gaddafi's fascination with "Children of God" and visit with Berg is mainstream information, regardless of the grammar of the blogger.

Thank you R55!

r57, it was John Fruscinate, of the Red Hot Chili Peppers who gave River the fatal overdose. But, just to give you an idea of Fruscinate's own state of mind, here's an interview from 1994, some months after River's death. When asked about it, Frusciante is nonchalant and says 'Everybody dies. The tragedy is that River was born at all because he hated this life'. Under the influence of drugs, Frusciante didn't give a fuck about killing his friend and he got away with it because of River's family being about harmony, peace and love. Since he's recovered, I wonder to myself if Frusciante has felt remorse. You can hear the segment about River from 9:09 mark:

r62 What's particularly eerie, is that that interview was during the period when Timothy Leary was hanging around and "mentoring" him. This may even be part of Johnny's documentary, though I'd have to watch the whole thing to determine that.

R62 There were also rumors that the drink was prepared by someone else. The amount in the drink was the full stash a drug dealer would have on him in one night, dumped into a cup.

Now, River could afford that much but no dealer in his right mind would try to kill such a cash cow and every dealer would know that much Persian brown, mixed with that much cocaine would kill if consumed all at once by even a seasoned drug user.

Just reading the comments on the r62 youtube video makes me want to throw up... Fruscinate fangirls comparing his story that of a greek god, romanticising his disgusting, decadent existence. Makes me infuriated.

"Stuff" (1993)

More info on it:

R62 Okay, I guess the documentary isn't any longer than the 12 mins. I saw, so that must be a separate interview.

What I find really odd it how by the autopsy report, River was a very healthy when he died. Usually long term drug users have bile issues and scar tissue on organs. River did not, he had the typical body on a non drug using 23 year old. This doesn't mean he never used drugs but it does point to it being unlikely that he'd been a hard core drug user for a while. He may have been a recreational user. He didn't have cancer or any serious terminal illness that might drive him to consider taking his own life. It's a surprising report, considering how he died.

R69 Apologies for the grammar!

R62 I also wonder how much he even remembers from that time. Was he being "monitored" while on seriously mind altering drugs?

We have to also consider if Gaddafi pretended to have an interest in the organization because someone told him he could gain blackmailing info about Washington D.C. power players if he got close to Berg. Perhaps he'd been blackmailing some people for years.

R62 Michael Stipe reveals the Frusciante connection in the original "Strange Currencies" video. It's not just typical DL speculation to say that River and Michel were in some kind of serious relationship at the time, even if it was unrequited on Stipe's part. There was some kind of serious dependency there.

John Fruscinate is an absolute rat in that video at r62. He just exudes degenerate, immoral squalor and vice.

What I find suspicious about the autopsy report is that the friends and family member - Joaquin - immediately left the hospital when River was pronounced dead and refused to be interviewed. River's agent was the only one who gave contact numbers for the other family members. Also, the conflicting reports on the scene at the Viper: most said River was in the bathroom and took a speed ball and Valium while Samantha Mathis claimed someone gave River "something" to calm him down which the cops assumed was the Valium, but her statement that "someone gave him something" is very telling. She also refused to return police phone calls.

And this John Frusciante? Anyone have any more info on his involvement? He seems really creepy in video above.

R73 Tell us more about the Stipe/ Phoenix relationship. And, was River involved sexually with Frusciante?

R75 It's just always been the "secret" that everyone knows that Frusciante gave him the drink as some sort of joke gone wrong but it was also the rumor that someone else prepared it.

However, those were very expensive drugs. The MOST expensive, Persian brown is considered a rich man's heroin, which is why it gained cachet and notoriety in Hollywood: Usually only the season's golden girls or boys or rich power players could afford it. Which lead me to his: If Frusciante had purchased them, do you think such an addict would part with that much just for a joke gone wrong? Especially knowing it would likely kill him? Frusciante was so out of it, that to me, he reads like some bobble-headed fall guy. He could have slipped a little in as some joke but what if one of the people around him had added a little something else? And if River was going to take such a massive risk for a dangerous high, why purposefully not drink alcohol?

There were even rumors that he thought he was getting some herbal health drink thing for a cold, which sounded ridiculous until you read the autopsy report and see that no ethanol was in his system. He used to drink old school, hippie health potions all of the time. People think he looked and acted like a junkie but the truth is, it was the grunge era. The era of greasy hair and greasy clothes, of trying to mimic heroin addicts. River was a really good actor and naturally a little space cadet-y. Maybe he was telling the truth and only did drugs at parties.

I admire Judy Davis so much, she knew River was an unreliable junkie and didn't pander to him like everybody else did.

R76 Stipe was close with River at the time and had been for a while. It was River who introduced Stipe to Gus Van Sant, not the other way around. River used to crash at Stipe's house constantly and River's family knew to find him there when they didn't know where he was. His ex Sue Solgot who believed he was bisexual said he could be found there in between films, when he wasn't at her house. River's family confronted Stipe about River's death after he died (that's what "Bang and Blame" is about). Even in that song "Michael Stipe" by "P", there's a part about how River would be hanging around Stipe often, going on road trips with him, etc.

If they were just close friends, it seems Michael felt something else and fell pretty hard because numerous REM songs are about him and Stipe admitted as much (Stipe also scored Franco's "My Own private River"). River used to call his house and talk for hours when he was on set or leave long, rambling messages on his answering machine.

If we are to go by "At My Most Beautiful", it seems River knew it yet kept going back. Why, who knows but if he was just teasing him, the family got pretty close to Stipe in the process. River's sister Rain is in the video:

R78 I'm not in the camp that thinks Judy's "hard love", no nonsense attitude killed him. I think something far, more sinister went down that night.

If River had actually realised that Judy Davis's zero tolerance for bullshit was a way of helping him and not hindering him, he might be alive today. It's no secret that playing the psycho role in Dark Blood under the sloppy direction of George Sluizer was making River go a little off the rails. Judy could have helped him if he had actually gone to her. Instead he turned to his enablers for comfort.

[quote][R58] Gaddafi's fascination with "Children of God" and visit with Berg is mainstream information, regardless of the grammar of the blogger.

Is it also mainstream information that the Jesuits run all of the world's intelligence agencies?

r79, Michael Stipe was a fucking vampire, latching onto any hot young artist of the time (River, Kurt Cobain) and wanting to sleep with them so he could get an influence over their psyche. If you actually step back and look at it, all these young geniuses of Generation X were being drained of their life-force by fucks like Stipe and his best friend Courtney Love. The only hero in this entire sordid saga is Judy Davis, she was not about that Hollywood life, and she could have taken the Phoenixes and Cobains in hand, teaching them how to protect themselves.

Sorry for this question, but Judy Davis the actress?

R81 I actually agree. I think Judy would have been a good influence. If he'd lived on and toughened up his skin, she would have been the sort of influence that could draw out his natural talent to the extreme.

I think this was more about suspicious characters, mingling with his friends and family members who may have been bad influences but likely weren't trying to do anything evil to him. He was a liability to some very, powerful people and also completely vulnerable. I think he was taken out and it was too easy to do it.

R82 Look into whatever you want to look into. It's silly to quickly discount records of a visit with Gaddafi by someone who lead an organization that had a legitimate raid on its headquarters in Argentina, this being well documented by multiple and varied sources. These are public records, for all to see. You don't have to consider any of it credible but that certainly doesn't put you in a position to judge anyone who looks into this story as crazy.

Yes R84. On "Dark Blood" there were infamous clashes between Judy, the director and she was prickly with River, who probably wasn't used to people being like that to him.

The thing that strikes me about "Bang and Blame" is how...bitchy it is. There's anger and jealousy in it. Even bitterness. I can understand being angry at someone you cared about who stupidly killed himself but it plays like Stipe thought he was some wronged man. Also, why would River's family point a finger at him for any of this?

Some information on Timothy Leary:

Supposedly, both Keanu Reeves and River Phoenix were left intact at birth and during the making of "My Favorite Idaho" they both decided to get circumcised as some sort of male bonding thing.

The only explanation is that in River's case, the rabbi sucked the blood causing a lethal infection which killed poor River.

He died because he OD'd. Not everything is a conspiracy.

R90 That's like saying "he died because he got hit by a car", while ignoring what choices he made leading up to that point that got him in that situation, who was driving the car, what occurred previous to the accident and if anyone had motive enough to purposefully hit him with a car.

I certainly can't blame Stipe for falling for River and possibly Kurt. Before discovering here that Stipe is close friends with that witch C. Love, I always had something of a hard on for him. For me, Stipe fell under the category of ' unconventionally attractive' men I would fuck. I know, I know, but his music always touched me. But with this new information, I just went flaccid.

And of course Franco gets involved in all this. I have said it before and I will say it again DLers. Please stop with this bi Franco crap. He is not using our community, he is part of our community. Franco admitting that " there is a gay James" and stating that he is gay up to the point of intercourse( ?) ...really James, intercourse is what you call it??.... is Franco's s way of coming out to US but still appearing straight enough for the fangirls and Hollywood straights who drive his career. Sorry for going off topic, but I am really sick of Franco and his dirty stretched out coin slot!

What's really strange, is that some eerie final footage of River -- a camera running after the filming of the nuclear bunker scenes with Judy Davis, hours before he died -- went missing after his death. Like some people buy art to hide it from other, others buy such artifacts for the same reason. Just to be the one who has it.

I think someone out there has it and it could be Johnny Depp.

I think most of us know about Franco r93. I have two NYC friends who had what can be best described as unsatisfactory "flings" with him. Both were consistent in their accounts that Franco is a true narcissist who believes that he is so beautiful and such a catch that lack of hygene doesn't matter. Both confirmed that while he loves to suck cock he is a lousy bottom who just lies there like a woman and has no anal flexing or ass pushing skills.

Now back to River's mysterious death - discuss.

We also can't ignore the strange disappearance of Johnny's business partner. Some claim it's about the mob and money. Some claim it's about money and Johnny. But what if it was about a threat to reveal something?

Anyone have any insight or stories re: Depp's involvement?

R97 Depp was playing on stage while River was actively dying. Of course, there are multiple stories of them both competing for parts but that's just par for the course in the industry.

This whole, damned thing is such a giant, film noir and yet no one in Hollywood dares make a film about it. That should be red flags enough.

Thank you r96 and r98. Interesting stuff to say the least.

"Just lies there like a woman."

Anal sex deprives women of sexual pleasure while inflicting pain. It's not surprising they don't "anal flex" like a queer who has a prostate, a reach 'round and who enjoys it..

To the other OP: Depp had nothing to do with River's death. He was playing on stage at the time. Why is his name constantly dragged through the mud on here?

[quote][R82] Look into whatever you want to look into. It's silly to quickly discount records of a visit with Gaddafi by someone who lead an organization that had a legitimate raid on its headquarters in Argentina, this being well documented by multiple and varied sources. These are public records, for all to see. You don't have to consider any of it credible but that certainly doesn't put you in a position to judge anyone who looks into this story as crazy.

Hang on, the source you cited described the Jesuits as running all the world's intelligence agencies. That's deeply crazy, and immediately calls into question anything the source reports.

R99 Even weirder, William Richert -- who is absolutely convinced River was murdered -- mentioned talking to someone (I'm forgetting who and I know, it's important information) to a man who looked like a crazed, disheveled version of Johnny's former business partner Fox who emerged from some corner near The Viper Room, ranting that River Phoenix had been murdered and he knew how and who did it.

I think Richert might have cracked over this, too:

R91 river was extremely naive, his parents didn't raise him in reality and that made him gullible. He also wanted to be a musician even though he wasn't very good. He bought the rock & roll/punk rock lie hook, line & sinker. He said himself that he missed out on a lot socially in his childhood and that made him very vulnerable to getting played and used. He was originally very sensitive and likeable but he wanted to fit in with the cool kids so he became more judgemental and cynical to assimilate. There is a video of him interviewing Flea about music in which he is high out of his mind and comes across as a cunt who doesn't know much about music that really turned me off to him when I saw it. He should have aligned himself more with no nonsense, street smart types like Martha Plimpton and Judy Davis than the likes of creeps like Stipe, Depp, Van Sant, etc who didn't give two shits about him, only what they could take from him.

r103, River's music was godawful. Here's a sample of it, featuring River's collaboration with the 'musician' who ended up killing him:

R103 But he was also known to be afraid to sleep. He'd never sleep or he'd fall asleep playing guitar. He had serious insomnia and likely an even more serious sleep disorder.

Oddly, Heath Ledger complained of the same problem for a couple of years leading up to his death. Stipe and Joaquin Phoenix bonded with Ledger, too. I'd say Stipe was just a drug dealer but the tattoo "Old Man River" Ledger had on his arm was River's childhood nickname that he talked about in interviews and his friends teased him about. What I want to know, is he got this tattoo after hanging around Stipe. That would be odd, even if Ledger were a fan because it would mean Stipe bonded with him over this guy he was obviously in love with in the past, who died a mysterious death. And perhaps Ledger bonded with him for the same reason, if he admired River and got the tattoo before meeting Stipe.

Even weirder, Johnny Depp got Ledger's part in "The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus" after he died and there is a part in the film where his character talks about celebrities dying young and being seen as immortal because of it.

I'm telling you, this whole story is a mind bender.

Then, there's the stories of Keanu Reeves and a jealous David Geffen, who was with Keanu while Keanu and River became close on "My Own Private Idaho". How rumors of the two becoming very close made their way around and back to Geffen are unclear bu maybe he heard something through the grapevine while he was busy battling with "Nirvana" over their creative direction. At that time, Cobain declared that all he wanted to do was record duets with Michael Stipe.

"What's Eating Gilbert Grape" was released in December of 1993. Leonardo Dicaprio said in an interview that the first time he saw River was at a party the night that he died, that River pushed past him looking deadly white and confused.

Stipe tried to "save" Cobain months after River's death. You'd think "E-bow The Letter" was about Cobain but Stipe made it clear that it was a letter he'd wrote to River that he hadn't given him in time.

Check out the lyrics to this REM song FIND THE RIVER, released two months before River's murder:

"Pick up here and chase the ride The river empties to the tide Fall into the ocean"

R104 Some of the laboriously experimental stuff was grating or contrived but many of his songs show an interesting sonic perspective and could have been very good, even if not excellent, with more development. He needed to shake his parents' hippie influence that sounded like he held him back a little.

I think his interest in music was frustrating for those who managed his career because while he did show hints of talent in music, he'd likely never be the best at that but in acting, he would.

It's easy to go off track here but there are so, many weird twists and turns to this story. Yet what do most people know? Drug overdose, moving along.

Yet Johnny's partner has been missing since 2001.

Some really bad info on taking h orally. Nobody does it like that because it’s a waste of the drug. No rush plus the acids af the stomach distroy a big part of the drug. You can get high off of it like that but it takes a lot more and the high is weaker.

River's music was awful. I think he really wanted to be what Jeff Buckley became.

R113 His natural acting talent was at the very top, though. He had what it takes to be the best of the best and those around him knew it. The sad thing (obviously, besides the premature death of a young person), is that working with no-nonsense actors like Judy Davis, who wouldn't let him coast or make excuses for any lack of professionalism, was coming around at the right time for him because he was getting old enough to handle the pressure and bring some life experience to his perspective.

However, while I think just the general story of a talented, young person -- someone known to be generally good to people -- dying young is tragic, I do think there is another layer to this one. Something else happened and I think it was something tied to politicians and underground, organized crime. The Viper Room, though it changed owners and names over the years, was known as a mob cover joint and when Johnny took over, they let him know the same arrangements would continue to be made.

While I did go off on tangents regarding personal relationships and those dynamics, it gets really murky when you start seeing all these connections. The "Children of God" connection is a big one, though, especially considering how River's father was the organizer/"Bishop" of Venezuela. I do think culturally, the hippie movement of the 60's into the 70's wouldn't have made the cult or commune, alternative lifestyles that many actors grew up in to be too unusual for the Gen X generation.

But when the children of leaders of the same cult end up moving in the same circle because they are tied together by the same, shady characters, it does make you wonder if those characters sought out these relationships for a purpose beyond just romance.

I think it's also important to remember what an enormous impact Leary had on culture in the US and overseas, how many well known public figures had somehow become attached to him. He turned things upside down, when it came to drugs being introduced into mainstream communities or he may have been the charismatic front for groups behind the scenes trying to do so.

He was probably an interesting person to be around but let's be honest, he clearly had a sociopathic streak of mad researcher about him and that emotional detachment was glamorous to some people. There were many instances where the ethics of what he was doing with naive, human "test" subjects was very hazy and the execution, sloppy and irresponsible. We don't even know how many times an "experiment" went bad in some hidden backwoods somewhere and the aftermath was quietly dealt with.

R112 That's what's so weird. No seasoned drug user would ever take those drugs, at that level, in that way. Those were very expensive drugs. There was 4 times the lethal amount of Persian Brown, 8 times the lethal amount of cocaine and that's not even considering all the others stuff that was found in his stomach.

Yet the way certain things metabolize, it was clear those drugs weren't taken over the course of days, but all at once. If a hard core druggie gave him that, this person either didn't know what they were giving him or meant for him to die. Or it wasn't a person with any knowledge about taking drugs that prepared it for him, who didn't realize it would kill him.

r116 Either way, the story for decades that River was a hard core druggie who snorted these drugs in a bathroom stall doesn't hold up. That's a lot of drugs to snort that quickly and a hard core druggie would know that it would kill him because regular users always know what their tolerance is in real time.

r117 We also know the drugs weren't cut with other poisons because that would have shown up in the toxicology report.

Are you insinuating that the Children of God members who forced the child River to have sex with other children came to the Viper Room to kill him?

R119 I'm saying that the ties to high level politicians and high level politicians' ties to the underworld, shouldn't be written off as irrelevant here.

A major raid happened on CoG in Argentina just weeks after his death and witnesses from different CoG branches testified in court later in 1993. We can't ignore the strangeness that Children of God choirs had been singing at The White House for years. Someone arranged that, vouched for the group. We also can't ignore the allegations that CoG was providing child prostitutes to The Bohemian Grove.

I'm not claiming all members were part of that and that it was going on with everyone's full knowledge but that club has had some very, powerful and prestigious members over the years and it isn't a stretch to think someone might have been desperate to silence him.

R117 Not to mention, had he been snorting it all, he would've had a strong enough reaction at about half that amount to not be steady enough to continue snorting the rest, he'd have to wait until his high had come down a little.

I'm telling you, this looks more and more like pre-meditated murder.

1993 was also the year of a very weird, Hollywood deaths, the death of Brandon Lee.

Johnny did get a tattoo for that and shares it with Damion Echols:

"...The most striking tattoo shared by the two is an image of a crow, found on the back of their respective right hands. The artwork is a nod to the 'The Crow' (released in 1994, the same year the Three were convicted), the fantasy action film about Eric Draven (the late, great Brandon Lee), a rock musician whose brutal murder is avenged when he rises from the grave a year after his death, guided by a mystical crow. It's a theme Echols says he explores in his autobiography, 'Life After Death.'

'[In the movie], they talk about the mythology of how [the crow] is considered to be something that transports souls from the realm of the dead to the realm of the living,' Echols said in an interview with People Magazine last fall. 'When somebody comes back to life, it's the crow that brings them back to the living.'..."

These two really bonded.

R124 Just of generational significance? Perhaps. Still odd, though.

I'm getting things off track but Lee's death sticks out as odd, too. Same year.

Bump

Bump...

Though about this subject on Halloween and read all the very interesting posts. Here link to an extensive article that ends with a recent update announcing: "a new documentary by Axel Vendel coming hopefully by 2019 or 2020 called: “I Am Still Here Too — River Phoenix The Full Story”

R122 It does to me, too. Too many details that don't add up.

R45 Exactly. Whoever prepared the drink got away with murder

R50 I would like to know what the liquid was in the drink. Seems so odd that he had no alcohol in his system. He liked booze so I wouldn't have been surprised if there was any

R57 His father was out for blood but was over in Costa Rica.

R77 Similar to my thoughts. I don't think he knew it was a speedball and quite possibly thought it was something else.

I know this is from a few years back but does anyone know where the source for River changing his name back to Bottom and removing his dad and brother from his will is, as R48 suggests. Couldn't find it.

Also I've read the person brown story was a myth, the autopsy did however find Valium. I gather he took this for years, maybe bouncing on and off. And yeah no alcohol that night.

Should be *Persian*brown ^^^