Let's Discuss Leopold and Loeb

It was more like Martha Beck and Raymond Fernandez, which is the classic psychological phenomena that two people, who would ordinarily not do horrible things or crimes, will do them if joining with a specific type.

In both cases you had small time crims (Loeb and Fernandez) who were joined by lonely highly intelligent goodie two shoes (Beck and Leopold) which resulted in the goodie two shoes being more evil and violent than the others.

But it seems like Loeb was the one who had always fantasized about pulling off the perfect murder. Leopold's fantasies were about being enslaved by a dominating master.

What's interesting is that Loeb wasn't really into sex, it was just a utilitarian act to keep Leopold close to him.

The Columbine of its day — psychopath + toady.

No, it was Leopold who was the violent one, as was Beck. I have read a lot about this case, including the trial document.

Leopold and Loeb were characterized as geniuses but Loeb was only above average. Leopold was brilliant. Loeb was very handsome but known as a joke, a bull shitter and a big talker. He was accepted into his fraternity only to be declared a joke by his frat bros, for always talking big.

Leopold was truly a genius but socially crippled and a homosexual. It would appear Loeb was not much of a homosexual but he was open to anyone who would do what he wanted. Loeb wanted to be a big time crim and anyone who helped him, he'd go along with.

Leopold being the genius he was manipulated Loeb into accepting his homosexual advances by agreeing to Loeb's schemes. While Loeb read all these criminal novels and fancied himself a crime boss, he was two bit and did things like destroy his frat house and set minor fires. He was such a bull shitter, no actual crim would go along with him because he was all talk.

Loeb just used his good looks and charm and Leopold his brains. Had they not met Loeb at worst would've been like a Winnona Ryder rich and arrested for some too bit crime. Leopold would've been married, closeted and paid for it on the side.

It was Loeb's desire to be a big time crim and Leopold's genius thinking that lead them to conclude between Leopold's book smarts and Leob's ability to exploit them, that they could pull off the "ultimate crime." The Ultimate Crime was Leopold's idea of murder while Loeb had more ideas of money. This lead them to combine the two for kidnapping for money, even though both of them were from rich families and had more spending money than they knew what to do with.

The plan was poorly executed and the cover up was sloppy and they were done in by the fact Leopold lost his glasses which were unique and easily traced back to him. Today they might have gotten away with it, but back then the two were separated by the cops and grilled without attorneys till Loeb broke down and confessed.

The trial was scandalized by their homosexual activity which was all dictated by Leopold actually having signed contracts where they agreed to things like Leopold could insert his penis between Loeb's thighs twice for help with starting three fires and so on.

Loeb was killed in prison with his killer getting off for self defense but it was a planned murder with the muscular 6 foot Loeb supposedly attacking and couldn't fight off a 5'4" weakling who somehow conveniently had all sorts of razor blades on him? No, he was murdered and the jury found Lobe's killer not guilty as payback for not giving him the death penalty.

Leopold was released on probation through a loophole (both were given life sentences without parole), and became an Xray tech in Puerto Rico apparently becoming straight again somehow.

[quote]Leopold being the genius he was manipulated Loeb into accepting his homosexual advances by agreeing to Loeb's schemes.

See, I just don't buy that the transaction worked that way.

Fun Fact ............... there is a musical called 'Thrill Me' based on these two killers. The music is quite good. I bought it on Amazon about ten years ago.

Just a typical DL top and bottom.

#thosecrazykids

Well, Hitchcock's Rope was based on a play based on that. Both John Dall and Farley Granger were gay.

There was a movie about them called Compulsion, with Dean Stockwell and Bradford Dillman (Suzy Parkers husband).

About 15 years ago the movie Swoon was based on it.

R9, Swoon came out 25 years ago.

Haven't seen it, but...

A visitor to Leopold's home in his later years said there was a picture of Richard Loeb prominently displayed.

I think Thrill Me is dreadful. Swoon is good, as is Compulsion (though the latter is somewhat fictionalized). John Logan wrote a very good Leopold and Loeb play when he was a senior at Northwestern--Never the Sinner. Denis O'Hare played Leopold (I think--I can't imagine him as Loeb).

....,

[quote]A visitor to Leopold's home in his later years said there was a picture of Richard Loeb prominently displayed.

That's the sort of thing that, if true, makes me doubt the idea that he was the mastermind pulling Loeb's strings.

OMG, R10, it goddam jet propels!

L&L are also characters in the 1991 TV movie DARROW, starring...

Funny how all roads lead to the same Spacey.

Are the details on this picture accurate?

[R19] This is a clearer shot...

In "Compulson", I think Orson Welle's speech to the Judge about the evils of capital punishment (which resulted in a non death penalty sentence) were taken from the trial transcripts.

I loved Swoon and frankly, I think those guys fucked Frank Jr.

Wow, the picture at R20 looks like the spitting image of Frida Kahlo.

[quote]Today they might have gotten away with it, but back then the two were separated by the cops and grilled without attorneys till Loeb broke down and confessed.

This still happens all the time, just not to rich kids.

And rich kids do commit murder and the fuckers are smart enough to get away with it, poor kids not as much. But when. A Teen turns up dead....don't you think it is usually a parent or another teen.

The grandfather of a friend of mine knew Darrow well. Said Darrow was the biggest crook that ever lived. Punched him out.

R23, that's probably because it IS a picture of Frida Kahlo.

I thought she had more of a unibrow.

"No, it was Leopold who was the violent one, as was Beck. I have read a lot about this case, including the trial document."

Not true, you obviously haven't read much about either case

The Lennon and McCartney of Chicago!

R27, she had it tweezed for the photo.

A mentor of mine went to elementary school in Hyde Park with a girl whose mother was living with Richard Loeb's former cellmate.

They weren't nearly as bad as Bausch & Lomb.

They were young and foolish and wanted to commit the perfect murder - and it was anything but.

Was Anne Perry’s folie a deux murder with her childhood friend akin to this, or different motivation?

A relative by marriage is Leopolds niece. Had to change their name to Leobold.

Total bitch and a drunk. But she's worth at least 50 million$.

Sorry Lebold. Damn autocorrect

R36 So that would make Nathan ("Babe") and Dickie, "Lebold and Lebeautiful"?

That's a good one.

The ID series "A Crime to Remember" recently did a show on them.

They also had a PBS American Experience episode

I thought this book was very interesting - it also provides a lot of info about the setting and the time.

I also read Leopold's book "Life Plus 99 Years." He mostly talks about prison life, not the crime.

I agree with R4's comments

I know it's wrong but I would have suck Loeb's big, fat cock.

"Compulsion," Meyer Levin's "fictionalized" account of the events prior to and after the murder and during the trial, is a terrific read. He's changed a few names but the book is fact -based.

I love the movie Swoon and that Jimmy Stewart movie too...Rope.

[quote]Swoon came out 25 years ago.

25 is 15 in eldergay years, sorta like 60 being 49

I am impressed R31. It would have been nice to talk to the guy and see if he had any impressions.

R45 LOL. Loeb was stabbed because he was no longer able to give money or goods to his former cellmate as the prison changed its policy about how much money a prisoner could receive from outside. Has anyone read Leopold's self-serving autobiography, Life plus 99 years?

R31 Apparently the man used to be a successful "second-story" man and would entertain people at parties by describing his exploits. My friend has never said whether he ever talked about his cellmate.

"Was Anne Perry’s folie a deux murder with her childhood friend akin to this, or different motivation? "

I think it was different. From what I know of the case, the Parker-Hulme murder was an explosion of rage and resentment directed at a person they knew intimately. Leopold and Leob didn't seen to have anything against their victim, they just wanted to kill someone and get away with it.

But yes, I think there was an element of "folie au deux" in both cases, particularly Parker and Hulme. Those two were released from prison while still young, and both have lived law-abiding lives ever since. Apparently they somehow brought out the worst in each other, the potential to murder.

I think psychologists concluded that Loeb was a psychopath who would kill again (and there was some reason to think him responsible for some earlier unexplained deaths in Chicago), but Leopold likely would not--I'm not sure it can be a folie a deux if only one of the two was influenced by the other.