So Gay = Old and Lonely?

When you see the light, stone age faguettes, run don't walk. Death is better for you sad old queens.

It seems to be a running theme. I think it helps explain why many bi guys choose to engage more fully in their heterosexual desires, even if it means being closeted.

If someone who’s aging defines their life and happiness by being in a relationship, that’s something that is transitory and you need ultimately to be your own best friend and emotional support in the end—because no friendships or relationships last forever.

[QUOTE]I think it helps explain why many bi guys choose to engage more fully in their heterosexual desires, even if it means being closeted.

Yep.

It’s a real sad reality for old gays. When you are over 40, get emotionally and mentally ready to be alone and lonely for the rest of your life.

I know and am friends with many happy older gay guy couples and lesbian couples.

I thought they just all moved to palm Springs and became happy there.

Many happy couples out there? It’s a fairy tale, dear. Most of them agreed to have open relationship in order to be “happy”

Lots of ignorance here in just a few replies. Datalounge trolls don't disappoint.

Gay as a way of life wasn't common until about 40 years ago. Some of these modern gay guys never married or lost partners to AIDS, so they're quite alone. Some gay guys also experienced difficulties with family members over their *cough-cough* lifestyle, and are not in touch with siblings and extended family.

These things should be a source of concern, but are instead lampooned by trolls on Datalounge.

And there is a snag. Many of the older generation of gay guys now have a very transactional way of managing their sex lives that prevents deeper relationships forming. Many don't want to form relationships with people their own age. There is considerable talk about how they prefer being alone. But all quality research on the topic shows that people are healthier and happier when in relationships, such as spouses, families, churches, etc. They are loathe to admit that there is benefit to being with others, and caring for others.

This eldergay generation more than any thinks it can fulfill all its needs by spending money. I wonder how this will work out as the current old gay generation gets into its 70s and 80s.

I'm 53 now (will be 54 in June) and though it would be nice to have someone, so long as I can keep my health and strength, my mind in check, and able to take care of myself both physically and financially, I'll be fine. I think by now that I've become so accustomed to being alone that it doesn't bother me as much as it used to, plus I live in New York City, so after a while of being out on the crowded streets, I'm happy to come home and be alone.

It's all about how you look at it I guess.

For some reason I've always enjoyed being alone and I have a lot of interests. What I don't like about getting old and what I didn't think about when younger is losing the older generation of my family, and I do miss them.

What are all these interests that you enjoy alone, R11?

True for me, OP.

Old age and loneliness aren’t particular to gay men. Just look at the desperation in the eyes of women of a certain age trapped in loveless marriages who have long since passed the last road out. Or the men who throw away years of marriage and companionship to fuck a younger woman only to be left with alimony and erectile dysfunction.

We all have to look in the mirror and see what is looking back. With luck some of us will at least have good memories, a good conscience and know we lived full lives.

But, unless they make it otherwise, none of us will cheat death and the run up is rarely easy for anyone.

Though I do like the last words of the actor John Le Mesurier, a very English gentleman.

‘ It’s all been rather lovely. ‘

And this from a man whose love of his life left him for his best friend.

It seems to be about generousity of spirit.

R12, I'm an amateur historian, I do woodworking, I read a lot and collect books, art and antiques, I enjoy cooking, lots of things.

Oh my sides, OP😂!

OLD and lonely?! Honey, I’ve been lonely since pre-school, save for family.

The gay life is a HARD, CRUEL, BITCH!

But, I’d still pick it over straight. Men are just too yummy. Even if I don’t have them in my life, It’s delicious to revel in the fantasy. Lesbians and straight men are crazy. Men are just so succulent, I don’t know how they can resist them.

I realized all my local friends were just "bar friends" when I aged out of the bar scene and stopped going. Suddenly I have zero gay friends in this big huge city. The few friends I have are just above acquaintances, whom I see maybe a few times a year for lunch or dinner or something... all connections I made through work. All my GOOD friends live in other cities in other states, far, far away... and I only get to see them once a year if I'm lucky (but we IM/chat/text regularly).

My typical weekday is "wake up, work, eat, veg (tv/internet/xbox), j/o, sleep".... and my weekend is the same minus the "work". I never go out with people, in general. Rarely leave my house. Never have anyone over. It's light-years different from how things were even just ten years ago.

People have always been lonely. It's only until recently that people have talked about it.

Don't kid yourself. Loneliness is common as you age, and it is worse for the LGBT community for the reasons stated above. Yes, even the "Bs." I'm lucky to live in a community that has a few senior centers with groups that are specifically LGBT. Even in a structured setting like this, hanging out with other older LGBT people is a huge improvement. I'd urge any LGBT individual of any age to search out group activities that don't revolve around hooking up or drinking. I've always heard gay men especially complain that they don't "fit in" with the gay community and yet outside of hooking up they don't do anything involving other gay men. You can't be part of a community if you don't participate in one. It's a two way street.

And I'm so glad for the one troll to identify itself so blatantly on this thread. You definitely won't be part of any of my communities. Assholes like you never make the cut. Misery may love company, but you clearly won't be getting any.

But y tho, r17? What’s stopping you from dating?

Y’all are fools. You have a job, car, clothes, house, money to spend. No reason to lack a boyfriend.

The gay life doesn't have to be lonely, nor HARD, CRUEL, BITCH (R16). If you think it is, it will probably be that way for you. Are you waiting for someone to just appear and make your life fulfilling? Guess again. Even straight people (or even those dreaded, according to some, bi folk) get lonely as they age. Friends and family die or move away for everyone. Those who involve themselves in outside activities that interest them wouldn't probably describe themselves as lonely. You have to open your front door sometimes and see what is beyond your threshold. OP, wondering why did you introduced this topic? You have a reference that brings you to your conclusion? If so, please share.

It helps to become your own best friend. Or, as my mother was wont to opine, “You’re not lonely; you’re solitary.”

A lot of men, especially straight men, can’t handle being by themselves, and shy away from confiding in others, leading them to get involved with someone, anyone, just to forego loneliness.

If I waited around for others to join me in activities , I’d probably never have done many of the things I’ve done in my life. I’ve traveled, gone to theater and films, drawn and painted, enjoyed all kinds of experiences. And, despite occasional cavils, it really has been rather lovely.

[quote] Many happy couples out there? It’s a fairy tale, dear. Most of them agreed to have open relationship in order to be “happy”

I'm a live-and-let-live kind of lesbo.

If the guy couples I know are all in open relationships, I guess they're happy this way? I socialize with them, we all go to the same events, we're members of multiple non-profits (arts and social). They're always together. They seem happy. What more is to be said? I don't think they're going to take each other out like that primo gay couple in Austin did last year.

The lesbo couples I know--of all ages-- are certainly not in open relationships.

I don’t know if this is for everyone but co-housing would be a good solution. I imagine something like a cross between the Barbizon and a retirement home.

I have a couple of Barbizon landscapes, they've given me great joy over the years...

Being picky !? Most have a type they would like to be around, No ?

When you feel the singe of the grease fire, r1, SSSSHHHHH -- don't speak!

Keep it down for the rest of us.

Did you learn all that at the Klan rally, r9?

Or the Westboro Baptist Church?

R14. Totally this. There's a whole secret world out there of miserable straight people who are in hopeless marriages. It's like a life sentence because they have kids and don't want to hurt them. I know I have seen it in my own family as well as friends relationships too. What we see from the outside as perfect often isn't in reality. The relationship you have with yourself, friends and family too are more important.

I'm approaching the age you're referring to (actually past the age where most younger gay men assume that I have one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel). I'm unpartnered, but not lonely. Here's the thing. FRIENDSHIPS are your insurance against loneliness, and friendships require maintenance and a certain amount of hard work. They require picking up the phone and listening to someone bitch about a hard day at the office. They require figuring out what someone else likes to do and offer to go along, if they will indulge one of your passions. (Could be going to garage sales, going to flower shows, going to a classical music concert, or going to a basketball game). They require that you learn to cook well enough to have someone over for dinner, or if you are too damn stupid to learn to boil water, give a fabulous cocktail party. I wonder when was the last time that people who complain that their lives are so lonely, picked up the phone and asked someone over to dinner?

The other thing is volunteering. Obviously you'll have more in common with other gay men. A lot of cities have rainbow centers, or gay senior centers, or AIDS foundations, or thrift stores.

There are also meetups for all sorts of things - book lovers, hikers, gardeners, etc.

Yes, when you're old and infirm, that's another issue, but for most, that moment doesn't arrive until someone is over 80. I don't think that's what we're talking about here.

R21 - My new catchphrase. A friend of mine, who lives in another country, is coming to visit me in a couple of weeks. And, as much as I enjoy her company, I will be so relived when she's gone again in 10 days, and I can get back to my 'solitude'. This is just how I'm wired. I think introverts handle aging much better than extroverts.

I'm not going to a garage sale for any reason.

R27 (and R26), R9 here. Stop trolling. I am supportive of gay men in their later years.

ok, i'm 45 and I am middle aged. I'm not old. I do not subscribe to what the gay culture considers "old" because I'm not into living a fallacy. I have always lived alone by choice. I want to be in a relationship now but with my emotional baggage, it's probably better that I not be. I enjoy my friendships and want to have more of them, not less.

This is what happens when friends and family start to pass, while we all want to live a long healthy life we don't think about what happens when people around you die leaving you with fewer contacts.

I disagree and think loneliness, low self esteem and selfishness all go together. Why can't you find another singleton and hang out with them (even a woman?). I think that lonely hearts don't trust people and choose to live alone.

Gay men are so broken. I feel so very sorry for so many of you.

[quote] (even a woman?).

Gee, thanks...

R17’s post is so depressing.

You people are such nutcases. I'm 49. Just out of a 10 year relationship. It's hard but I'm getting along. I have lots of friends, am in decent shape and am having more sex than I ever did at 25. So go ahead and mope. See what it gets you.

I haven't lived with anyone since 1993, and I've been single since 2008. But I'm not lonely in the least.

The older I get, the more people annoy me, to the point that when I have to deal with other people, I always end up saying to myself, "This is why I never leave the house." I'm retired, so I don't really have to. And I've been doing things (going to movies, restaurants, traveling) by myself for many years.

I talk on the phone with close relatives and friends (none of whom are local) at least a few times a week, and I have a neighbor I'm friendly with. Plus I have a dog who'd take a bullet for me who's a great and warm companion.

I never considered myself an introvert. I am very outgoing, even with strangers, and my occupation necessitated me speaking to large groups of people multiple times a week. But I love being alone.

Lots of pussy!

In 1991, I quit keeping a written record of the friends, acquaintances, co-workers, neighbors, etc., lost to AIDS when the number hit 250 and I just could not bear to continue. An effective treatment did not come for five more years, so the experience did not end when I stopped entering names in my make-shift memorial.

So, yes. I'm lonely. At 62, I work with great focus to maintain a social life. But I really yearn to have in my life more gay men my own age. I treasure the 40 year old friends I have, but it's quite a different thing.

You realize this has been a thing since gay people existed.

^^^Do you realize this has been a thing since straight people existed, too?

Have you ever been to straight senior retirement places in Florida? Widows are like sharks out of the water looking for a man, any man.

What about “bitter old queen”?

What about them?

Everybody, young and old, need cocks!

R46 is it a thing?

What about happily together for forty years and married for as long as fifteen years (since same-sex marriage began in 2004)?

I can't tell if R19 is delusional or just completely self-absorbed.

R36 - thanks R36, your pity is truly a blessing.

But, you know, if a lesbian, shame on you.

If heterosexual, please take it from this gay man that I would rather poke my own eyeballs out with a blunt pencil than lead the lives I see the majority of heterosexuals lead.

R48: Of course it is. So is "miserable old woman"

Some people are damaged to start with and some people get damaged along the way. It seems to affect all genders, ages, and orientations. Some people find ways to transcend the negative experiences, some don't. Life has winners and losers. Some people, sadly, seem unable to find happiness.

Yet, I suspect there's a large segment of the gay population that's quite happy, thankyouverymuch, because they've found a way to live, whether alone or with someone else, that meets their needs. Since they're not "bitter old queens" and the like, you're less likely to hear about them because they're less likely to give you a reason to hear about them - they're happy with their lives.

This not just a problem for gay people, elderly straight people also experience this.

Thx, r52

I remember when this article came out and I ignored it because I thought it was a bunch of depressing bullshit. But now as I get older, it’s starting to resonate. The fear of a lonely gay future has begun to settle in.

[QUOTE]”The drugs were a combination of boredom and loneliness,” he says. “I used to come home from work exhausted on a Friday night and it’s like, ‘Now what?’ So I would dial out to get some meth delivered and check the Internet to see if there were any parties happening. It was either that or watch a movie by myself.”

[QUOTE]Jeremy is not my only gay friend who’s struggling. There’s Malcolm, who barely leaves the house except for work because his anxiety is so bad. There’s Jared, whose depression and body dysmorphia have steadily shrunk his social life down to me, the gym and Internet hookups. And there was Christian, the second guy I ever kissed, who killed himself at 32, two weeks after his boyfriend broke up with him. Christian went to a party store, rented a helium tank, started inhaling it, then texted his ex and told him to come over, to make sure he’d find the body.

R10 you and I are twins-birthday in June as well. I don't live in NYC but Baltimore so I can get to D.C. or NYC without much stress. What helps me with being alone at 53 is that I was an only child and so I was raised to entertain myself, to be my best company, and not to depend on other people. I also loved someone with everything I had. I don't think I could love that well again. So what's the point outside of sex?

R10: I have troubling following. You loved and lost (I think.)

So what's the point of "what" outside of sex? That the companionship or affection or whatever of other people has no value unless you're fucking them?

Not trying to be snarky, just mystified.

Old and lonely can happen to anyone if you live long enough. As long as you have decent health and a willingness to get out and around people (providing you want to) you can avoid loneliness.

Even if you have a partner, one will outlive the other. It's a common occurrence for women to outlive partners and husbands. The same thing happens in gay relationships. Develop your inner resources and ability to reach out and join in if you fear loneliness. Control your own reality. Barring unforeseen circumstance and disasters, it can be done.

My fear is outliving everyone who cares about me and becoming dependent of caregivers for care. The quality you get there depends on your income. many really old people without family, friends, and funds, are at the mercy of whoever and whatever is left. It's never too soon to start planning. Save more, spend less, build quality relationships, and nurture your health.

Do you know who ends up old and lonely?

GAY PEOPLE.

Do you know who else ends up old and lonely?

EVERYONE.

Nursing homes and assisted living homes are full of lonely old st8 people, mostly women. And a lot of those lonely women have children/grandchildren who never go see them.

Old often equals lonely.

You guys keep talking about outliving everyone but that’s the major difference between us and hets: they have children. That’s the key to not “outliving everyone.” My mother is 70 and would be a miserable old mess if it wasn’t for her three sons and their (two) wives and grandchildren. My father died a couple years ago and he was happily surrounded by his wife, children and grandchildren. Yes, when you don’t procreate and there’s nothing coming after you, of course you’ll outlive everyone. That’s why we’re gay and lonely. I’m the youngest child with no plans to have kids, so I get the distinguished honor of watching my family grow old and die while I’m the last one standing.

You're not gay and lonely if you build your own family. And, as above, having children is no guarantee they'll be there for you when you need them. How many kids today could stop what they're doing (as in "work") to take care of an aged parent? You might be able to check in on 'em now and then in the nursing home, but few of us of any orientation have lives organized so that we can count on someone to drop what they're doing to tend to our needs when we're old or infirm.

[quote]You guys keep talking about outliving everyone but that’s the major difference between us and hets: they have children.

Who ignore them.

I think that's almost worse.

R61, can you not be the favorite uncle to nieces and nephews?

I don't think gay equals alone and lonely. I'm a gay man in my 50s. I think it's natural for your social circle to shrink. I had a lot of friends in my 20s, some left over from college years, some from work. I used to go out all the time with my friends. Often you'll find as you age, you discover those friends were more like acquaintances. You had a common bond, such as the same group of friends in college or working at the same company, that changes over the years and you lose touch. If you run into them, it's nice to catch up, but then you're done. You find you don't really have that strong a tie to them anymore. By my 30s, going out to bars just didn't seem as much fun anymore and my social circle began to shrink.

Other than my partner, I have a handful of people I'm really close to, and one person in particular is my best friend in the world. I was partnered from 23 to 36, then single until I was 45 when I met my current partner. I remember those single years. They definitely got lonelier as I headed to my mid-40s, but I noticed a lot of that had to do with what I wrote above about discovering former "friends" were really more like acquaintances.

I always tried to strike that balance between socializing and alone time. I got more and more comfortable with more alone time as I headed toward my mid-40s. I found things I could do by myself like cooking or long walks. I got lots of social interaction at work. I still dated and eventually found my partner. I didn't really like going to the bars by myself, though. That was never something I was comfortable with, but I did do it on occasion. I had some acquaintances I'd do things with. Even though I love my partner dearly, I find I still crave some alone time, which he's learned to understand. But in my 50s, I find I'm turning down more social invitations than accepting as I'm always trying to keep that alone time/socializing balance.

R55, those people sound they have mental health issues and need help.

r36 MOST people are broken, not just gay men.

You are far less alone than you think. We have the internet which we didn't even have 25 years ago. If there was no internet you wouldn't be able to voice your opinion about this to anyone. I don't think you realize the difference it makes to have forums to be able to talk to other people. You wouldn't have anyone to vent to about things like Trump. If there was no internet we might not even know what was going on in gov't. and would have lost all freedom by now. Then you might be living in camps and you wouldn't be lonely but wished you were. If people didn't have the internet to vent on we would be in a civil war in this country.

Everyday you can come here and talk to people who understand you, see your point of view, can discuss differences with you, etc. They agree with you, disagree with you, tease you, make fun of you, just like in real life. You are not near alone as you think. Stop telling yourself that you're alone.

Suicide may be my retirement plan.

Life is what you make of it. No one should live like a hermit, home alone all the time. Get up and move, get out and join the outside world. If depressed seek help. It’s all in your own hands.

Loneliness is epidemic, every race, class, gender. Something is broken, or this is just our fate living in mass societies.

I'm 58. Like everything else, if you want a life-long partner, the only way that you have a chance of getting it is to DECIDE that's what you want and go for it. That's what I did and found him 25 years ago. Granted, not everyone will be as lucky as I am, but if you don't even choose to pursue it, you don't have a chance. I feel really bad for those who try and don't succeed. But a lot of it has to do with comprimise. My husband is nowhere near who I pictured myself being with and he's told me the same thing. But we laugh out loud every day and love each other. Not saying that anonymous sex isn't fun. I was a slut til I was 30. But since we've been together, I decided that sex outside of my relationship wasn't an option.

I was a slut until i was 18.

[quote]can you not be the favorite uncle to nieces and nephews?

Not if you're an only child, R64.

It's not just older gay men, more people are lonely in general. The majority of straight women who divorce or are widowed at over 50 don't remarry, for example. My mom and my partner's mom are both in that position and have made very different choices. My mom has a huge social network and is very busy and engaged in the world, while my partner's mom seems to have few if any friends and spends most of her spare time sitting at home and nagging her adult children by phone.

It’s everywhere. Through work I’ve gotten to know a younger gay guy, 25, who is gorgeous, but tells me he’s nothing but lonely and that many of his friends feel the same. Even when they’re dating someone, they feel lonely.

R73 I am only child. I have over twenty nieces and nephews. My straight friends have brought me into the fold of their family as I have grown older. It gives me a place at the table, and a reason to focus outward, and not inward toward loneliness and depression. I made that choice years ago to have only close straight friends because I saw early on how fickle gay men could be. And I need family. I come from a big Irish Catholic one. My cousins were like siblings. But as an adult I picked my friends very carefully so that in my older years they would act as a rock. Gay life is lonely because gay men refuse to grow up and mature about mating, friendship, and being gay. It is really a form of self-hate.

That's why you should partner up and have kids.

A friend who works in a nursing home says a high percentage of people there are men and women without families.

Gay men use their energy to find sex partners, not friends.

R76, what you're doing works for you but you should have close gay friends as well as straight. You're missing out if you're unable to maintain quality close friendships with gay people.

Some of the funniest posts I've read here on DL have been about people describing their huge Irish families.

Yeah you sound real mature, R76.

Why R79-Gay men from the beginning have been rude, dismissive, selfish, obtuse, and mean to me as a person. I believe that gay men are only invested in themselves. This idea of gay marriage and family is a limited myth the gay community wants to sell to prove we are normal. But experience shows me that they act like mean girls until they die. Yes that means you R81. Why the hell would you want one as a friend?

r76 Almost all of my friends are gay. I’ve known some of them for over 20 years. Maybe you just don’t like other gay guys enough to pursue those friendships. You would be the common denominator, not other men’s “fickleness”.

"A friend who works in a nursing home says a high percentage of people there are men and women without families."

Which makes sense up to a point because they have no-one to use alternative means (home-healthcare, living with a relative, etc.) as an alternative to the nursing home. At the same time, having kids who, like many of us today, don't live down the street from Mom or Dad ain't much help either. And even if they did, people today are working; for the most part both spouses/partners, meaning they don't have the time (or skills for someone who needs more than custodial care) to keep them out of a nursing home.

How old is the guy with the Irish family? Late 20s? Early 30s?

I suspect that R76 is,how shall we put it,less than attractive. hence the huge chip on his shoulder about other gay men. Nobody ever wanted to fuck him.Ive got gay and straight friends,some Ive known for decades,and I love them all but I do prefer,if pressed,the company of my gay friends. We simply have more in common.

I'm a lesbian and the few bi women I know ended up with men and either have sex with women (sometimes with me) or just long to. Each of them describes how much harder everything was when they were with women: financially (they all have husbands who outearn them, in one case, fully supports her writing life) and socially (family bullshit figures highly in this equation).

Most people are lonely. If you're in a relationship and feel fulfilled, I admire you and applaud you. I don't have what it takes, somehow, to get beyond a few years. And now I stopped trying since I can't bear another stab at long term when I've been quite happy enjoying the short-term romances I find relatively easily. Baby we got tonight.

Who needs tomorrow?

We've got tonight, babe.

Why don't you stay?

[quote] Each of them describes how much harder everything was when they were with women: financially (they all have husbands who outearn them, in one case, fully supports her writing life) and socially (family bullshit figures highly in this equation).

How nice for them...

May I speculate about something that had never dawned on me before the last 6 months...?

(Lesbian here, by the way. )

In my broad social circle, I seem to know (not well) a lot of "late in life" lesbians who all have children (teens or college kids) from their original straight marriages. Since I don't know them well, I always sort of wondered how hard it was financially to be raising two or three kids alone and have a job. I'm now starting to wonder how strongly the child support thing has played into the life of the bisexual/lesbian who first married straight.

That is all.

R90, there was a thread about later-in-life lesbians last week.

R91, I know. I commented on that one as well. But that thread died, and this one is active and closely aligned in topic.

We didn't really talk about the financials of children, though, and I've been mulling it over ever since. (Also, since I know people like this in my actual life--just not very well.)

Been together for almost 40 years, the last 14 of 'em married. One of us is gonna die before the other unless we're killed in a plane crash or die in the same fire. The financial stuff (two together can live a helluva lot cheaper than two apart, we learned) is all set because we had the income and the inclination to do that instead of spending all of it on (non-prescription) drugs or otherwise pissing it away. One of us, if need be, can afford a very nice assisted living set-up or the cost of long-term custodial care in a nursing home for as long as we live.

So what? Whether together for a long time or never in a long-term relationship, in the end most likely we're all gonna be alone for some part of our lives. You can do things to soften the blow and make yourself more comfortable if and when you're suddenly single, but we leave the world the way we came into it (assuming you're not born a twin, triplet, etc.) and that's alone. Nothing we do can change that.

60 years old. Married for 28 years until he died 5 years ago. Now married a 2nd time. This will be my last. I am happy. Sex is good. We’re good friends and lovers. No need or desire to stray outside our marriage. We’ll (with luck) grow old together.

How old is your 2nd husband, R94?

I think it's bizarre that some people think it's a good idea to have kids just so they'll have someone to take care of them later. Do you plan to raise the kid to be codependent so that he or she will never be able to leave you. Do you expect your grown kid to drop everything at age 50 or 60 to take care of you? Will you raise him or her to feel obligated?

55 r95

Who said anything about the kid taking care of you? That’s the last reason to have children, especially as a man. Men don’t want anybody taking care of them. But it would be nice to have them visiting you, checking in on you, looking after you even if you’re in a nursing home. My grandmother ended up in a home and those fucks knew better than to screw with her because her daughter was there everyday and she had three big ass grandsons stopping in at various times throughout the week.

R89, yep, must be nice for them. Although, it isn't even. I don't live in another person's wallet. It's not for me and it's a turnoff.

"Many of the older generation of gay guys now have a very transactional way of managing their sex lives that prevents deeper relationships forming. Many don't want to form relationships with people their own age"

I don't understand what you're talking about

The common element with straight people is social anxiety and rejection sensitivity - which both lead to loneliness, unless you are so introverted that you really need no other people in your life at all (not common, but you'll find some of these types in academia due to the solitary nature - others can't take it and leave.)

Do gay men have more social anxiety and rejection sensitivity than straight people? I think it depends on what their upbringing and early years being out was like - and generally if these weren't positive experiences, then there would be more aversion to being around other people & less ability to connect with them, since most opportunities would feel fake, disjointed, and awkward. And then when you do meet someone you like as a friend (or whatever) - and they disappear and ghost you (which is all the rage these days) - it makes it that much harder to meet another person, if you are particularly sensitive to rejection, which can then become a vicious cycle.

There's more to it than that, but these 2 factors have been studied quite a bit in psychology and social psychology - among all people, gay or straight.

most opportunities would feel fake, disjointed, awkward, *and anxiety provoking* (most important one)

When my dad first found out he had terminal lung cancer he told my mom that it was better this way. If he had outlived my mom, he knew we, his kids would not take care of him and he would end his years alone and lonely. He was a horrible father to us. But he knew that his wife, our mom, would always have someone to take care of her. And now widowed, my dad was right. My mom has the love of her three kids and 4 grandchildren and a very active social life with her circle of longtime friends.

My father was the same. Classiest thing he ever did was admit what a shit father he was on his death bed, and said much the same. Mum will be taken care of. Him we would have left him to rot in a home. He got out easy.

My father was the opposite and died a beloved man surrounded by his loved ones, but he also knew that his wife would be taken care of.

R17, welcome to my world. Once I stopped drinking, all my so called friends all but disappeared. I came to the realization that they really weren’t my friends. Just drinking buddies. When you’re drinking you don’t really care about the company you keep at the bar. You’ll talk to anyone. Those people weren’t my friends. And I wasn’t their friend either.

R56, I think I was the first person to post a link to that article... and the commenters here ripped me to shreds. Basically proving the point that gay men are just fucking mean to each other, and that's why so many of us end up alone and lonely.

I recall when that article (at R55, not R56) was posted here and a big reason it was ripped to shreds because it came from Huffington Post, which had recently changed one of its sections from "Gay Voices" to "Queer Voices".

Yeah, R55, sorry.

And yeah, no, I don't think that's a valid excuse for ripping me to shreds. The content of the article is what matters.

Hm. I recall that the criticism was towards the article and not towards who posted it (if it was you); will have to dig it up and revisit it.

Yeah, well, the article is on the nose. I think there's a lot of denial here. A lot of "_I'M_ not lonely, therefore nobody else is and this article is rubbish!" bullshit.

[QUOTE]Marriage equality and the changes in legal status were an improvement for some gay men,” says Christopher Stults, a researcher at New York University who studies the differences in mental health between gay and straight men. “But for a lot of other people, it was a letdown. Like, we have this legal status, and yet there’s still something unfulfilled.”

[QUOTE]This feeling of emptiness, it turns out, is not just an American phenomenon. In the Netherlands, where gay marriage has been legal since 2001, gay men remain three times more likely to suffer from a mood disorder than straight men, and 10 times more likely to engage in “suicidal self-harm.” In Sweden, which has had civil unions since 1995 and full marriage since 2009, men married to men have triple the suicide rate of men married to women.

[QUOTE]All of these unbearable statistics lead to the same conclusion: It is still dangerously alienating to go through life as a man attracted to other men.

R94 do you ever feel "guilty" for marrying again? Like would your deceased husband have wanted you to move on and be happy?

I can't imagine loving anyone else if mine goes first. However, if I go first (more likely), I wouldn't want him to be lonely.

And does your current husband feel like he's got big shoes to fill?

R90, my guess is that bi women are more able to be a part of peer groups than lesbian women and are influenced by them. I think social pressure plays a bigger role in straight marriage and procreation than almost anything else (apart from the biological imperative). When you refuse to tow the line in relation to what society expects of you, women can be especially vicious. I'm almost certain to remain single, and that's not a problem, but the alienation caused by rejection is the worst part of it, I think.

However, I do think things are different for younger people now.

All old people get lonely. If you have kids, that can solve the problem - a little, assuming they care about you or live on the same continent. But having kids to not be lonely in old life is egocentric.

Gay men without kids are no different than all the other old childless people. Men may not be the best at friendship - but that’s true for old straight men too. And they either stick it out with a miserable wife who names them until the die - or buy a new younger wife. No different than gay men.

The “epidemic” of loneliness is tru across all ages. I know a lot of millennials who are lonely because they never had to work to get friends IRL - just relied on social media “friends” and a digital world. We’re all moved disconnected from IRL friendships and people interactions.

I for one am grateful that I am getting old now. I outlived AIDS, have had more life than I expected, I can connect with people online and never feel lonely. Too many people rely on others to escape themselves - and have a hard time aging and not being surrounded by people, I love my single life and freedom and never feel lonely. Too many self-pitying, bitter old gay men venting their unhappiness with life.

R23, I am hoping that these facilities come about in the next 10 years or so. The assisted living and senior housing market has only been around about 25 years, and continues to expand as Boomers age. I'd love to see an investor target the gay market.

My friends and I have kind of jokingly talked about living together in a house a la the Golden Girls but I need my solitude. However, my own apartment in a gay senior community would be ideal.

Regarding worldly goods (my childless friends fret over this) and whether you have children or not, set up family trust with a designated trustee (someone you trust or a public guardian). If you have heirs (or not) and lots of stuff it's a good idea to leave a list of reliable estate sale companies for them to use. Then the stuff can be sold off and the cash distributed. Leave the real estate and cars to anyone you want or a charity. Lots of charities take cars. PBS does.

My partner received a tidy sum from a rich aunt who died without heirs in another state. She was quite wealthy, the money was split between dozens of relatives. It was a welcome surprise. If you have nothing, don't worry about it, the landlord or neighbors can clean out the place and sell/donate accordingly.

Apologies in advance. :)

[quote]One of us is gonna die before the other unless we're killed in a plane crash or die in the same fire.

That's the spirit.

R116 makes a good point about connecting with people online. I have a group of online friends from the US and Canada that arose from a fan site over 20 years ago. A younger friend has an online international group of friends formed from Gishwhes, a charity driven scavenger hunt group.

DL, too, is a wonderful place to connect with people. I don't know too many people in real life who are as entertaining as many of the people here. As long as we have the Internets there are possibilities for good company.

R114,

[quote] my guess is that bi women are more able to be a part of peer groups than lesbian women and are influenced by them.

I'm going to have to mull this one over--because I imagine it makes a difference depending on age. The LiLs that I was talking about are in their (roughly) late 50s and up. I'm in my late 30s, and most of my friends until my early 30s were straight women. I mean, I think I was always their centerpiece lesbo--and was well-liked. (I came out when I was 16.) But perhaps with older set it was different.

[quote] I think social pressure plays a bigger role in straight marriage and procreation than almost anything else (apart from the biological imperative).

This is so incredibly demoralizing. At one point on my life, I was friends with a lot of women who were going through high conflict divorces, and they all sort of told me versions of, "I never loved him. I wish I had never seen him..." The amount of trouble and torment a bad marriage causes families and kids is terrible.

[quote] I'm almost certain to remain single, and that's not a problem, but the alienation caused by rejection is the worst part of it, I think.

Why are you almost certain to remain single?

R113. I did not intend to fall in love and was not looking. It happened. My late husband probably had something to do with it, knowing him.

My husband fully understands and supports. He is very different than my late husband so no shoes to fill.

R117 gay nursing homes (and their better cousin, assisted living facilities), have been talked about since the 1970s, when gays were becoming more accepted in society. Then AIDS hit, and nearly wiped out the very generation that would be using them now.

R122 Internet is only virtual company

I have Alexia, she can tell jokes!

^^ Dammit! ALEXA. She gets so pissy when i call her the wrong name.

[quote]Why are you almost certain to remain single?

A lot of unrelated issues; I wouldn't suit a lot of people and don't have the energy to hunt down the few. Low income in a place with high and rising property prices. It's not great for me to dip into these threads on a Friday evening when I'm not feeling 100%, but generally I'm fine with how things are and am happy to let things work out as they will.

[quote]I'm going to have to mull this one over--because I imagine it makes a difference depending on age. The LiLs that I was talking about are in their (roughly) late 50s and up. I'm in my late 30s, and most of my friends until my early 30s were straight women. I mean, I think I was always their centerpiece lesbo--and was well-liked. (I came out when I was 16.) But perhaps with older set it was different.

Yes, I knew once I read that over that it wasn't quite what I wanted to convey. I do think that, perhaps, bi women may be slightly more susceptible to peer pressure - subconsciously - because they have the option to be in a straight marriage. I didn't mean so much that lesbian women aren't part of peer groups but that they aren't subjected to that kind of pressure. It's just social expectation; it may not be malicious.

ADOPT

Also many children need to be fostered.

There's a program that does a lot of outreach in my town that's a Guardian Ad Litem that pairs gay youth (as foster children, who are homeless, at risk/whatever) with gay foster parents.

If any of you are interested, they might have one in your town, too.

[quote] I do think that, perhaps, bi women may be slightly more susceptible to peer pressure - subconsciously - because they have the option to be in a straight marriage.

The interesting thing to me about this point of yours, which I hadn't considered before, was that bi women might be more pressured by their straight female friends than their parents/family. If this were true, there would be a very interesting dynamic underlying it.

[quote] I wouldn't suit a lot of people and don't have the energy to hunt down the few. Low income in a place with high and rising property prices. It's not great for me to dip into these threads on a Friday evening when I'm not feeling 100%, but generally I'm fine with how things are and am happy to let things work out as they will.

First, I send you hugs.

Secondly, I have spent a lot of lonely nights thinking about the vagaries of human fortune over the ages, and how something as daffy as property values can shape a human life--totally aside from one's tenacity or hardiest endeavors. And then I sometimes look at people in Hong Kong--in photos--living in massive apartment buildings of mere tens of square feet who don't seem to be detered from procreating or partnering up, and I wonder if I'm not made of the requisite stiffer stuff.

Pretty much <3 It's not like there's any choice though, is it? Someone who's truly gay can't live in a straight marriage. It's worse being gay because the sheer odds of finding another gay partner are significantly less, but such is reality.

^^adding to R133,

I meant to say that the bi girls sure have it tough: a lot of the lesbos look askance at them for fishing in the same (small, shallow, abysmally ill-favored) dating pool.

I'm a firm believer in self-deliverance! If it should happen that my long-time partner dies before I do, it's curtains for me, as there would be no one left to care. I refuse to end up in a home somewhere.

Thanks, R133, and hugs to you too. Here's wishing companionship and friendship for everyone here, in whatever form that takes.

[quote]The interesting thing to me about this point of yours, which I hadn't considered before, was that bi women might be more pressured by their straight female friends than their parents/family. If this were true, there would be a very interesting dynamic underlying it.

It's a theory of mine based on observing people I know (30-50 age group), but I do think that friend groups are important enforcers of societal values.

[quote]I meant to say that the bi girls sure have it tough: a lot of the lesbos look askance at them for fishing in the same (small, shallow, abysmally ill-favored) dating pool.

It's tough, I think; but I see young bi women who are more confident and seem to be working it out.

R9. What are you, 25?

Even as a young gay couple, we had friends who had been together since (don’t shit your superman underoos) the early 1960s. I know, the whole gay thing was actually invented before the 1980s - no matter what your gay conversion, Washington Times op/eds or Donald Trump has told you.

And there were lots of gays. They used to march and all sorts of shit. You could learn stuff about this instead of making an ass of yourself.

R136 I understand how looking at self-deliverance as a way of ending our own personal history one of the choices we have in life. I wouldn't enjoy a stranger in a care facility feeding and cleaning me as a good endng. At 74, I've decided to follow a healthy lifestyle, not to extend my life, but to keep me healthy and self-sustaining until a natural end. I no longer smoke, drink or use drugs--not even prescription drugs.

I start each day with a stack of pills that include metabolites and other minerals, vitamins and herbs, and other supplements, especially those that help replace things that the body produces less of as we age, including testosterone, dopamine and choline for the brain. My folks both had Alzheimer's, so I take piracetam, alpha-gpc and dmae, as well as drinking coffee, as it eliminates things that attack neurons. I also exercise daily. So far, it seems to be working. If something comes along that takes my good health away, then I will decide what is the best course of action. In the meantime, I work part-time, which is what I need to stay socially interactive on that level. I also walk my dog and talk to neighbors. I enjoy internet forums.

The last couple of relationships made me decide that my alone time is very important for my mental health. I may be alone, but I'm not lonely.

r139 I wish my mother was as proactive about her health, good for you, but I digress. Carry on, interesting thread.

The old gay couples I know really love each other and keep each other company but I wouldn't say they are happy. I think their pets give them joy.

R141, why wouldn't they be happy if they have someone who loves them and keeps them company?

I mean, how happy does a person need to be before they're considered happy?

Happier than me, R142.

I dunno, I find happiness to be so fleeting and ephemeral. I'll be happy for a moment because of this or that thing... but it fades as fast as it comes, and it's all too rare anyway.

Old=lonely. Gay can mean more lonely because no kids. But i’ve Always chosen to be alone. It’s always been much easier. I think there are people who need people - and others not so much. But it is healthy to maintain some contact with people - which is why NYC is a great place to grow old in a lot of ways. Never fully alone - but always have the ability to isolate in apartment knowing there are millions of all types of people a few steps outside.

I would have thought having contentment and pleasure in someone's company - whether a partner or any loved one - brings a lot of happiness. I think it takes a lot of external pressure to undermine that.

^^ That was in response to R143.

R142 because long term couples have benefits and downsides. They love each other but bicker and are kind of miserable. This isn't just gay. Lots of unhappy couples stay together. There is love but not a lot of joy and happiness.

Like a job - or life - long term marriage isn’t about pleasure and happiness. It’s about fulfillment and security. Like a job, it shouldn’t make you constantly miserable and should give you as much or more then the effort you put into it - but it’s normal for it not to be enjoyable and pleasurable all the time.

Hey R141, R147, and you too, R148,

Stop raining on my pity party parade.

R147 and R148, I get your meaning. I wasn't thinking of romantic stereotypes, but more of when you go through a lot with someone and know them extremely well and grow to like them more instead of less. It's something you can experience with family and close friends as well. I understand that not everyone experiences this, and I think when you're an introvert you're especially lucky when you do.

What exactly is the point of this thread?

'gay men refuse to grow up and mature'

That's true of a lot of straight men as well and they make their wives and their childrens' lives a living hell.

If you're traumatized as a child by an infantile tantrum throwing father and overcame it I give you a lot of credit. I did not manage it. Now I'm getting old, do not have money and will die most likely in a nursing home for indigents. Suicide is a very comforting thought. Too bad the reality of the act itself is horrific. There should be euthanasia for people who simply no longer want to live. I want out. What exactly is wrong with that? I've already lived a long enough life and the idea of being helped to take a shit or dying of distress alone on the living room floor seems cruel and unusual punishment.

None of you can have any notion of how slim the pickings in lesbian dating world are.

The horror...

[quote]yummy... delicious... succulent

Is R16 a parody post?

To have grown up gay in the 70s and 80s is to have been robbed of your adolescence... so it's no surprise that you're still living it in your 20s and even 30s. Straight kids got their first kisses and fist dates early in their teen years and got all the practice and social acceptability and training and learning out of the way by the time they were 20. Gay kids didn't have that luxury. I certainly didn't. I didn't get my first kiss until I was nearly 20.

Lots of trauma has left a generation of gay men unable to form lasting, trusting relationships. And lets face it, there's a lot smaller pool of people to find compatible life partners from. And generally a lot less support from friends & family.

R155 is right. I didn't get my first real kiss till I was 25, and my virginity shortly thereafter. I made up for it as soon as I moved to NYC from the Bible Belt, but a lot of my initial behavior upon arriving in Manhattan was to make up for lost time.

But the sad reality is that no one cares that that generation lost its adolescence. So those of us who were part of that have to grow up and move on.

I learned to be alone and preferred it for a long time. I was happy. When I turned 40, my longest relationship had lasted six months.

I wasn't a whore that whole time. Yes, I had sex, but my life wasn't devoted to it. I travelled, spent time with friends and family and worked hard on my career.

Also, I put in the hard work to love myself. It's not about becoming a narcissist, but rather training the heart and head to not be unkind to yourself, to not be your own worst enemy.

And voila! At 41, I unexpectedly met the man who's become my husband. A weekend tryst has now lasted almost eight years. It shocks me to think of it, and I feel incredibly fortunate and grateful to have him in my life, and to be experiencing what it's like to be partnered. It's not all fun and games, of course: ALL relationships require nurturing.

Since it's come up in this thread, yes, we are sexually open. We decided that soon after we met. Sex is easy to procure; it's the rest that's hard to find and maintain, at least for gay men.

It works for us. Doesn't work for most, I imagine.

But that's not why I'm posting.

Gay life after 40 does not have to be empty and lonely. You will get out of it what you put in to it. (Like almost everything.) I turn (gulp) 50 this year, and that's a birthday where you really stop to assess what decisions you've made, and what you're going to do from this age forward.

It also helps not to live in a gay ghetto. I know too many gay men who have no female friends, which bewilders me to no end. I love women. LOVE them. My best friend outside of my marriage is a lesbian I've known since I was 22. We travel together to places that the husband doesn't want to visit. I can't imagine my life without her.

So those of you who are lonely, invest in the world. Be kind to yourself, and go out and find others with like interests.

Our lives are precious short. Make the most of the time.

All this lesbian puzzlement over why bi women marry men -- "is it social pressure?" "is it for child support?" -- has me baffled.

Bi women marry men because they're into men -- and because men ask them out & pursue them, unlike lesbians who sit back waiting for the other woman to make the move.

What r152 said. Yes, tantrums. That was my father. Every single night at the dinner table. Tantrums.

Having a child isn't equatable to growing mature. A crackhead with 10 kids isn't mature.

Most people without a partner, and many with one, are lonely. Most old people are really lonely. It's got nothing to do with being gay.

We live too long.

[quote]Bi women marry men because they're into men -- and because men ask them out & pursue them, unlike lesbians who sit back waiting for the other woman to make the move.

I'd say it's principally the fact that there's more straight/bi men than lesbian/bi women, but I think the discussion was mainly about what additional factors might apply in a strongly heteronormative society.

It's all about building networks of support. Churches can be great places if they're welcoming and affirming. I belong to a men's group and that's been a big support for me. As a divorced bi guy without a partner I do find that having 2 adult kids is lovely. I'm extroverted too but it's frustrating that a lot of bi/gay men focus more on sex than relationships or friendships. I need to figure out better dating strategies but happy to be busy with trying to be social and also keeping my own company.

R103 you made me cry.

We aren't baffled about why bi women marry men.

The question is why they return to women later in life, try to posture as lesbians, and expect us to throw confetti to welcome them back.

I am 51...My boyfriend of 17 years died and I realize gays my age have 3 options.....(1) be a bar drunk......(2) be an online whore who will fuck or suck anything.....(3) Get used to being alone and hope the neighbors report the smell when I kick the bucket...I finally decided to go with (3)....

R166 It's never too late for you to find another. I lost my partner to HIV after 17 years, I thought it would never happen again. At 50 I met another man who became my life partner, we have been together 19 years. Relationships do take work, the ability to adjust to another person but it can be very rewarding.

R166 and R167 - thanks for adding something substantive to the discussion. Sorry to hear your partner died so you R166. Why do I know so many gay men who die young - even excluding HIV? Seems like a lot of young widows at my local bar. I do think that the over 59 gay men need to find ways to meet and interact. Right now, that is the bar for most - at least in vibrant gay cities with gay bars. I’ve actually met friends and hooked up with guys 50+ at the bar. But appreciate it’s a slippery slope - especially for the retire who can start showing up in the afternoon.

[quote] Why do I know so many gay men who die young - even excluding HIV? Seems like a lot of young widows at my local bar.

I made this comment about lesbos I know just last week on a similar thread.

This is an interesting tale I came across yesterday. Elsie de Wolfe, AKA Lady Mendl (1860-1950), had been with her lover, Elizabeth Marbury, for decades before marrying Sir Charles Mendl when she was 66 years old. Her relationship with Elizabeth continued on until Elizabeth died in 1933. The Mendl's marriage was platonic and he outlived her after her death in 1950. He was 11 years younger.

It doesn't look like any of them were lonely. If you want to spend some fun times reading about them just google each of their names. Fascinating stuff.

There were a lot of lavendar expat marriages in Paris at the time. That was where you went not to be talked about.

It looks like they had money, R190. Money can make you a lot less lonely, no matter your age or orientation.

R172, how do you know what the future R190 is going to post?

[quote]because long term couples have benefits and downsides. They love each other but bicker and are kind of miserable.

"Bickering" is not in and of itself a sign of misery, though it might look that way from the outside.

R173, I'm a time traveler, with nothing better to do than post on DL.

Not Carol Channing. She's dead.

I just finished watching Old Settler on youtube which was originally shown on PBS in 2001. I first saw it many years ago but probably not in 2001. It was well done. It stars Phylicia Rashad and Debbie Allen as sisters living in Harlem in 1943. A young man falls for Phylicia's character and they are going to move back to the small town he hails from in the south but he never shows up. She stays up all night waiting for him.

It sounds like the situation with a LOT of older gay males- Waiting for the DREAM guy who will NEVER show up.

Only old folks are gay. Young people are queer and transed before puberty and sexuality develop these days.

I see a lot of eldergays in LA that age prematurely due to stress of their earlier years, especially 50+ who were either directly or indirectly effected by the AIDS crisis of the early 80's. If they are positive, that has taken a toll and if they aren't but were really hard partiers, that does as well. Many gays from gen Z on up have issues with their families. We have come a long way, but kids still leave or get kicked out of home. There are many lonely gays, some by choice and some by circumstances. The one thing I have learned from observation is to do your absolute best to preserve your health. Bad health can lead to poor finances and the combination can be catastrophic, especially without a familial safety net. Some cities are blessed with robust LGBT centers that include senior housing and support, but most do not. If you are a fortunate, barely a day over 30 looking eldergay with money to burn like so many are here, please support your local lgbt senior services. There is a real need out there and many cannot just pick themselves up by the bootstraps. Without these services supported by private donations, they would be screwed.

Then again, I know straight men with wives and older kids who feel completely disconnected and alone.

r96 described my parents to a tee.

Troll thread by haterosexual supremacist.

60yo gay male here. First relationship lasted six years. Full monogamy by me. Second relationship 24 years with two kids. Mostly monogamous, but always full disclosure with any “episodes.” I wish I could get some “alone time!” The sad stereotype pushed by OP (a troll I thought was dead) is an old homophobic trope pushed by religious bigots to squash a despised minority. Enough already.

38, recently divorced, single by choice. I've been in monogamous relationships for most of my adult life. I'm still awed with the simple pleasures of getting to sleep in my own bed where I can fart and sprawl out and not have to listen to my ex-husband die from sleep apnea. I love not having the dinner debate every night, and being spontaneous without having to consider anyone else, and not restricted in the sorts of relationships I can have with people.

Being alone has forced me to find ways to connect with people, with a focus on gay men of all ages. There are a lot of options besides bars. Most areas will have activity groups for gay men like hiking groups, meet ups, book clubs, etc. I joined my local gay men's chorus and started meeting people and expanding my gay circle from there. It's a small gay world and eventually you will start finding the parties and social scene if you want to. Then there are online options as well. In lockdown I started doing a weekly "heart circle" on zoom with gay men from all over the world where we just share what's on our hearts and now I have friends and places to stay all across Europe if I wanted to go. If this thread proves anything its that gay men are hungry for intimacy and they are out there looking for it too.

OP's image captioned in DataLounge English: "They say it's safe in many places, but I'm going to continue wearing my mask until the day I die. I mean all last winter, through the months on end Covid curfews and restrictions I never left the house, ordered all the essentials delivered, and wore my mask even though I live alone. And not one bout of the flu! I don't miss anyone: not my coworker 'friends,' not my so-called few close friends who failed the test of having to be the first to contact me, not the rude people in shops and in the streets...and with Mother dead these 8 years, 7 months, and 13 days, what's the point? A big 'fuck you' to the lot of them. I prefer my own company, thank you."

Not all of us are OLD and LONELY.....The rich old manless whores like Andy Cohen and his manwife Anderson have invested in a LAB BABY.....Welcome to the future!!

Stop projecting, OP. Old and lonely means you've spent your life existing in the reflected limelight of others who were living theirs. Now they're gone and you only have yourself left. Instead of doing something about it, you turn your arrested perceptions inward, and devalue everything you are. Next...