Rose Marie: Mary Tyler Moore and I weren't friends

This cunt again?

She said later in life they became friends, but there was too much competition for airtime during the DVD show.

She's said that before, even right after MTM died, as if that was a good time to remind people they hadn't been friends.

It was always just jealousy, though. A long time ago MTM said this in an interview:

[quote]"That didn't make everyone in the cast happy. I'd describe Rose Marie and myself as cool and distant. She was originally billed as the female lead with the most lines. But the show just took a different direction. We were always cordial with one another, but we also both felt threatened by each other. I also wasn't as close to Morey Amsterdam. He palled around with Rose Marie, while me, Dick and Jerry Paris, who played the next-door dentist neighbor Jerry Helper, hung out together."

Mary Tyler Moore was better looking than Rose Marie of course. But MTM was hardly a knockout.

Who did Ann Morgan Guilbert hang out with?

In those days MTM was a knockout.

Ann Morgan Guilbert didn't hangout with anyone. To the frustrations of the writers and producers. From her first appearance on they tried to get her to go from recurring to regular. Offering her then unheard of amounts of money for a supporting role. She wasn't interested. She didn't want the grind of being a regular of coming in and sitting around until it was your turn. She liked coming in now and then, doing a bit, then going home.

R6 Thanks for the info, I loved when Millie was on the show.

WWMHD?

I thought she was long dead.

[quote]But MTM was hardly a knockout.

In the DVD days she was a world class piece of ass. The bloom came off in the early 70s, but on the MTM show they kept writing her as if she was still as gorgeous as she'd been in the 60s, which she definitely wasn't. Still attractive? Yes, but not the cocktease she'd been in the 60s.

For instance in the first season they had an ep where she turns 30, but she was already 33 or 34.

Poor Rose. The ugly duckling. She was so jealous of MTM.

Millie was the one who played Yetta on The Nanny, yes?

Yes. She played Yetta. She didn't have a contract on either of the shows. They'd put a script together and send it to her. If she wanted to do it they cut her a check and gave it to her on taping day.

She was incredibly sexy and most importantly a breath of fresh air. I agree though she lost it pretty quickly.

^ Yep! She was just in her 60s/early 70s then.

Ro and Morey were from the old days of radio and early TV so it's not a surprise they weren't happy with the newbies getting all the attention, not to mention the awards. Funny how Mary actually looked less sexy and more adolescent body-wise at the start of her series compared to Van Dyke era. Anyone else notice how big her breasts got around the 5th or 6th season? Even Rhoda's mother Ida commented on them when she went to visit her in NY.

I seem to recall a retrospective show where they interviewed Rose Marie, and she brought up MTM's "Oh, Rob!" shtick, and she kinda knew that things were going to change when they heard the audience reaction. The retrospective show then did a montage of "Oh, Rob!" moments.

An "Oh, Rob!" montage.

You have to give Mary credit. She was coming from virtually zero experience and took the show.

Jerry Paris was kinda sexy.

Show biz is psychologically brutal, and competition is one of the worst parts of it, especially between women. MTM probably never had Gal Pals, she certainly wasn't known for being besties with any of the women from the Mary Tyler Moore show.

Who did Richard Deacon hang out with?

No one. He had his hands full keeping Lumpy in line at home.

R23, Scotty Bowers?

"For instance in the first season they had an ep where she turns 30, but she was already 33 or 34."

Speaking of age...on one of the shows Sally laments being "twenty-seven (or twenty-eight; I can't remember) and living with a cat!" I was amazed at that line, because Rose Marie never looked less than 40 years old on that show.

I thought Sally had a lot going for her. She was a successful woman, a talented comedy writer, and was employed by a major tv show. But of course none of that mattered much, because the life of an unmarried woman is a life of emptiness. On more than one occasion Rob and Laura refer to her as "poor Sally" or "poor Sal." Those shows where Sally's singleness is the focus of the episode are hard to watch. But seeing them does make you realize how far women have come. In those days being unmarried was considered a cruel and pitiable fate, as evidenced by the desperate to be married Sally Rogers.

R22 I don't know. I've read various accounts about how Mary, Grant Tinker, Betty White and Allen Ludden were friends IRL. Valerie and Mary always had good things to say about each other but I can't say if they were buds outside of work. Cloris just seems like someone who would be challenging to have a relationship with.

I don't know why we always think it's supposed to be different for actors and actresses. I don't hangout with anyone I work with. In fact I pretty much hate them all. I'm sure the feeling is mutual LOL.

"Who did Richard Deacon hang out with?"

Paul Lynde, Dick Sargent, Tony Randall, Alan Sues and Charles Nelson Reilly.

Hard to believe that Rose Marie, a woman who looked 57 years old in 1960, is still with us.

For those of you who think Mary lost her looks quickly, she certainly kept a great figure.

Mary on DVD--hottest sitcom wife ever.

ha ha Mary stole Rose Marie's thread too.

[quote] I don't know why we always think it's supposed to be different for actors and actresses. I don't hangout with anyone I work with. In fact I pretty much hate them all. I'm sure the feeling is mutual LOL.

Some workplaces are very chummy, some are not. Because we see these people hanging out and having fun on our TVs, we think they must be like that off screen. They're just reading lines someone else wrote for them, moving in a way someone else directed them.

Having said that, I never got the feeling that the characters of Laura and Sally were the types who would go shopping and have lunch at Schrafft's. Sally lived in the city and had a career, Laura lived in the suburbs and was raising a child. Not like they had a lot in common.

When I watched it as a kid, I used to understand that there were episodes that focused around Buddy and Sally at the office, and episodes that focused on Laura, Richie, and the Halpers at home. I MUCH preferred the latter to the former--I thought Buddy was obnoxious and mean, and Sally was abrasive.

It was very rare for Laura to cross paths with Buddy and Sally, comparatively (who would she? in the early 60s wives rarely came to the office), so it makes sense Rose Marie and MTM were not close friends. they were probably rarely on the set at the same time.

As for MTM and Grant Tinker being friends with Allen Ludden and Betty White: MTM can be credited with the hiring of Betty White for the role of Sue Ann Nivens. Mary was supposedly responsible for helping the writers come up with the Sue Ann character, whom they described as "outwardly a Betty White type, but actually nasty and competitive and nymphomaniacal," and it was Mary who had the brilliant idea, "Why don't we ask the actual Betty White to play Sue Ann?" (By "a Betty White type," they meant that prior to the MTM Show Betty White was best known--and much beloved--for her work in the sweet, perky , naive title role on 'Life with Elizabeth,' a great sitcom from the 50s that was mostly only available in the LA area).

[quote]Some workplaces are very chummy, some are not.

I especially hate it when salespeople in stores get along SWIMMINGLY well with each other, and are so busy chatting that they have no time to help customers. I always want to interrupt them and say, "Excuse me, could you please hate each other as much as I hate MY coworkers, so you won't be talking and I can get some service around here??"

It must also be said that Laura Petrie was the FIRST sexy wife and mother on an American sitcom.

And, no, Lucy Ricardo does not count.

This is my fucking thread!!

Circa 1998 when I worked at the Paley Center, we did a Nanny thing, and I spotted Ann Morgan Guilbert outside smoking. I told her how I loved Mille and how cool it was that we still got to laugh with her. She could not have been less interested in me, or anything I had to say to her. It was a bad celebrity encounter.

R36, you had me until 'a great sitcom.' Bettty's insufferable mugging and humorless script made Life With Elizabeth a boring sitcom. It's one of the worst.

"This is my fucking thread!!—Rose Marie"

Guurrrl, right now, you're the Mary!

LOL R40 that's exactly how I would have expected Ann Morgan Guilbert to respond. The only thing that would have made it better if she bummed a ciggy from you. Then blew the smoke in your face after your compliment. Yetta doesn't have time to play.

R38 Excuse me?

R43 if it was the way you portrayed it, that would've been great. It was more like "you're wonderful I've loved you for a long time so glad to get to enjoy your work". "Oh" and slight nod is all I got back. Its OK though. She was shy and didn't wanna be recognized. I just felt bad for bothering her.

r24, can you blame him? Lumpy was such a hot bear cub! I remember seeing chest hair on him in an episode once. Too bad I couldn't find a screen shot of it.

You could tell that Rose Marie started out as the lead actress because in the early days of the show, she was billed in the opening ahead of Mary. They stuck Mary in with Larry Matthews. They must have realized that Dick and Mary had great chemistry and pretty soon, Rob and Laura had more storylines than Rob's office life.

I liked both, the office life and the home life, and there were quite a few times Sally and Laura had episodes together.

I remember reading Rose Marie's autobiography a couple of years ago, right after I read Kaye Ballard's. It was quite a contrast. Kaye came off miserable about her career and what should have happened for her, and RM came off as someone who lived her life to the fullest, had enormous success as a child and followed it up as an adult and had a great marriage to boot. She admited not being happy about MTM usurping her position in the show but came around after the first couple of years, and though they weren't friends, did get along. She didn't seem petty about most of what happened in her life as Kaye did and you end up really liking her. (BTW, RM and Kaye worked together briefly in 4 Girls 4 on the road. Kaye was a replacement.)

Buddy and Sally were much more interesting than Rob and Laurie. Rob should have kept Laura back in New Rochelle.

In her autobiography, Cloris Leachman said MTM wasn't too friendly to her. Leachman said MTM and Valerie Harper got along well, since they had background in dancing.

Jerry Paris gave up acting to become a successful television director,

Actually r29, he hung out at Numbers on Sunset.

r41, your taste sucks.

I've always read MTM was not the warmest woman in the world. She had a few people she worked with she just adored: Dick van dyke and Valerie Harper (all three were dancers), and Ed Asner. But I think she was a bit brisk with everyone else. She admitted once of her three most indelibale roles--Laura Petrie, Mary Richards, and Beth Jarrett--she was most like Beth Jarrett. But she could act being warm wonderfully.

[quote]it makes sense Rose Marie and MTM were not close friends. they were probably rarely on the set at the same time.

The Dick Van Dyke Show was a multi-cam sitcom shot in front of a live audience. Shows in that format are filmed in one day on a stage, so every actor who appears in any given episode is present at the same time. MTM and Rose Marie likely saw each other each and every single day, between the rehearsal days, the blocking day, and the day of shooting.

[quote]Anyone else notice how big her breasts got around the 5th or 6th season? Even Rhoda's mother Ida commented on them when she went to visit her in NY.

She gained some weight right around that time and got back to the size she'd been during the Dick Van Dyke show.

[quote]Cloris Leachman said MTM wasn't too friendly to her

Cloris is a world-class bitch. I'm surprised she's not a DL icon. She pissed almost everyone off with her crazy, so no judgment against MTM for this one.

MTM always stole the show. She couldn't help it. She was a star.

It's pretty amazing how big MTM got without very much (if any) acting training. Her career just sort of happened to her, she (and everyone else) didn't expect her to break-out on DVD and then while she had a bit of a career lull post-DVD, I don't think anyone would have imagined that she would front what is considered by many to be the greatest (or one of the greatest) sitcoms off all time. I would imagine the whole thing was pretty overwhelming as I don't think she got into the business expecting to be a star in the same way many do.

Team Mary.

Well according to Grant Tinker's autobiovrapby, MTM was scary ambitious. I don"t think her career just happened to her.

Laura Petrie was the first sitcom wife and mother who wore pants instead of frocks.

r10 MTM a beauty? With a mouth as big as a steamboat ship? Please. It's was that backcombed bouffant flip that everyone really loved and her size two figure.

[quote] Who did Ann Morgan Guilbert hang out with?

I went back home every night alone and flicked my bean to glossy black & white 8X10 headshots of Jerry Paris.

here's creepy baby Rose Marie getting her little girl pussy wet singing to some hot fit fat guy.

MTM was considered to be the Jackie Kennedy of sitcoms. The hair was soon coiffed like Jackie's and she even started to dress like her.

MTM could be very subtle with her acting while RM came charging at you like a bull. Two very different styles of getting laughs. Loved them both and really liked Guilbert and Paris as Jerry and Millie. I too thought Jerry Paris was sexy as hell and he died way too young.

MTM and DVD were so sexy together. You just knew that Rob was blowing out Laura's back every night.

When you have access to that rare sexual electricity onscreen, who wants to waste time on dumpy and dusty old Rose Marie and Morrie?

R61 not so much

[quote]Mary on DVD--hottest sitcom wife ever.

I'd have to give it to Elizabeth Montgomery...but only in the B&W episodes of Bewitched.

Donna Reed was a beauty, though they made her a frumpy housewife. It's a shame Jimmy Stewart blamed her for the failure of "It's a Wonderful Life." He could be such a racist, misogynist, Republican pig.

Mary must have been a pretty cool person to nab that much-younger good-looking doctor in her latter years - and he stayed loyal.

Both shows had a two year overlap. I loved both shows. The only difference is I loved the DVD show from start to finish. It just got better and they went out on top of their game. I loved Bewitched through the b&w years. Then it was OK when it went into color. Bewitched when on at least three years to long.

Bewitched: The second Darren was not as good as the first.

R56, he did??? How can you blame Donna Reed for that??? I always heard it was the subject matter at the times that bummed people out.

Dammit. I meant R69. How can you blame Donna Reed for the failure of IIts a Wonderful Life on its initial release?

Bitch hijacked my thread!

Millie's big moment. She had done some sketch comedy and improv type things(were they called that back then) with DVD before the show. That's why she got the soft glove treatment and was able to schedule doing the show around her real life schedule. He adored her and soon all the cast did. I remember reading somewhere that they auditioned over 100 actresses to play Laura. They couldn't find the right one and it was becoming a problem because they had to start the writing and shooting. Then someone talked Mary into auditioning, she didn't want to do it, then she walked in the room and that was that.

"It's a Wonderful Life": ... the movie was considered a flop when it came out,” she [Reed's daughter] said, cautiously. “Jimmy Stewart actually blamed her. And that’s why you never see them in another movie together.”...Even if a war-weary Stewart sought to place blame on Reed for the film’s failure, time eventually proved him wrong...

I used to confuse Jerry Paris and Peter Bonerz. No clue why.

I find it very hard to believe that Jimmy Stewart "blamed" Donna Reed for "It's A Wonderful Life" not being a big hit when it first came out. I mean, what on earth could be the reasoning behind that? How could Reed be blamed in any way for the movie not being a box office smash? I think Reed's daughter is totally full of shit.

I read it in his biography as well.

Poor Sally, er, Rose Marie. She can't even get her own thread.

R78 oh my god, me too! I picture them both wearing white dentist shirts. Did they both play dentists?

The biggest bitch I ever worked with was Miss Elizabeth Boop.

[quote]Hard to believe that Rose Marie, a woman who looked 57 years old in 1960, is still with us.

She looks 500 years old, but she seems really sharp for 95. I wonder if she tweets herself or has her caregiver do it.

Rose Marie has a 76 year span between her first credit and her latest credit.

It struck me that that must be a record, so I did a little more research.

George Burns has a 65 year span.

But beating Rose Marie is Milton Berle. If you count uncredited minor roles, its 86 years. If you only count credited roles, its 80 years.

BUT, if Rose Marie does something, anything now she will beat Berle. Her last credit was 2008.

The cast of the Mary Tyler Moore Show said that Mary was aloof and was not friendly towards anyone.

She was basically the mother in Ordinary People.

And later in life she was a right-winger.

I get the sense that Mary was aloof, but not unfriendly. I think she was professional on the set, but was not friends with anyone she worked with off set.

I think they all appreciated her, and kind of understood that that was her personality.

Trying to get this thread back to Rose Marie...

"I read it in his biography as well."

I still find it unbelievable. And no one has yet given an explanation as to why Stewart would blame Reed for the failure of a movie.

She is a treasure!

R89 finds it unbelievable. No amount of evidence will convince R89.

R89 finds it unbelievable. No one has given R89 an explanation he can accept.

R89 still finds it unbelievable.

[quote] But seeing them does make you realize how far women have come. In those days being unmarried was considered a cruel and pitiable fate, as evidenced by the desperate to be married Sally Rogers.

You think it still isn't like this? Think again.

r88: "Behold, the ravages of age!"

RoseMarie is Polish AND Italian?

Brother, what an unfortunate mix!

What made the DVD show so great is the blending of all the different comic acting styles. The broad vaudeville shtick of Amsterdam and Rose Marie complemented the more modern and sophisticated couple at the center.

[quote] The broad vaudeville shtick of Amsterdam and Rose Marie complemented the more modern and sophisticated couple at the center.

We totally agree.

[quote]BUT, if Rose Marie does something, anything now she will beat Berle. Her last credit was 2008.

Does granny porn count?

[quote]I used to confuse Jerry Paris and Peter Bonerz. No clue why

Both played dentists who were sidekicks, and both were actors who went on to become television directors.

[quote] I used to confuse Jerry Paris and Peter Bonerz.

Bonerz.... *giggle*

[quote]right after I read Kaye Ballard's.

Gayest thing a human being has ever written.

[quote]She was basically the mother in Ordinary People.

Never. She was not the sweet perky Laura or Mary Richards, but she wasn't an arrogant cold WASP either. She was always very earthy and had a sharp, sometimes crude sense of humor which shocked people. She used to call Dick Van Dyke "Penis Von Lesbian."

She was under enormous pressure when the show took off, and she drank and acted tyrannically at times. That was the price she paid for success. Her marriage also ended and her son died (possibly a suicide).

[quote]And later in life she was a right-winger.

As she got older she did listen to Fox News all the time, but old farts usually do get reactionary. She still had causes that were more liberal, like Diabetes and Animal Rights.

I love how musical these old b&w shows could be. I was so born after my time. I would have loved to live in this era and showing up for parties in a jacket and tie. With a big bass player just happens to show up. These two really did have chemistry.

[quote]She still had causes that were more liberal, like Diabetes and Animal Rights.

Diabeetus is lib-rul? Who knew?

When did Rose Marie start wearing hewr signature hair bows? I am shocked to see that they weren't a trademark of her childhood stardom!

I wonder if Stewart's blame of Donna Reed was about her not being a major star for Stewart act opposite? Not about her performance but about her lack of fame to sell the film?

Rose Marie on Hollywood Squares ...

PETER: Ro, if you're being raped, what do experts say you should yell?

ROSE: More! More!

(Audience screams with laughter)

Will somebody please post a clip of that hilarious episode where Laura explains what she will do for the PTA variety show only to be upstaged by the other housewife? And then at the end of the episode they both sing Sing a Doodly Song with Rob.

Sitcom Magic!

R68- Sexiest TV wife was Jeannie. Hands down.

That's what I always thought they were r104. However I can't find any photos from her early career where's she's wearing them.

...and this is the effective part where I sell it with a look, r107

Rose Marie was a farbissinah cunt whose overbite was so big, she could walk into a restaurant and eat off everyone's plate before she left the hostess' station.

R102 I did live through this era and don't recall even one time where people attended a house gathering dressed up for a cocktail party. Maybe we were all too lowbrow.

The best part of that scene at r110 is that later on after Laura is cut down to size by the other girl, Rob teases Laura about her hubris and imitates that look over the shoulder to her. Her also digs into the carpet imitating Laura's testing of the rug to make sure it could take her prancing and dancing.

In real life the average middle class and even upper middle class person did not have such parties. That was Hollywood's idea of what people did. Really think of your grandparents and their friends. Would you really want any of those people singing and dancing in your living room?

That actress who does the Doodlin' song is terrific but it surprises me that MTM (not to mention Rose Marie!) were ok with her barging onto the show with those 2 featured spots in one episode.

Was she a wife of one of the writers or Sheldon Leonard's mistress?

I want my fucking thread back!!!

Bringing some Rose-Marie to her own thread!

Big debut on October 3, 1961

Where were you 56 years ago??

This TV Guide listing of the debut episode of DVD Show

That pilot episode sounds absolutely dreary.

It was a Monday night at 9pm. My mother always made English muffins 1/2 with cottage cheese and a poached egg, one half with cottage cheese and prune whip which is delicious and tastes like apple butter. We'd eat them together while watching the DVD show. Then for me it was bedtime. My mom would watch through the Tonight Show with either Jack Parr or Johnny Carson, I forget who was the host then. If it was Jack she and her lady friends always had a lot to talk about the next morning.

Boy, I bet that cunt Rose Marie was seething that Ritchie got better billing and mention than she did in that TV Guide description.

[quote]I get the sense that Mary was aloof, but not unfriendly. I think she was professional on the set, but was not friends with anyone she worked with off set.

I always got the impression that MTM,in reality, was closer in personality to Beth Jarrett in "Ordinary People" than she was to Mary Richards or Laura Petrie...which is perfectly fine.

I just didn't buy the whole "who can turn the world on with her smile" image she had.

The show was really well-cast, except for when DVD kept featuring his real-life no-talent brother. Also, does anyone remember Sally's long-suffering boyfriend?

I love that the TV Guide writer forgets DVD's character's name 10 lines into the synopsis.

Herman

"It's a Wonderful Life" was supposed to help relaunch Stewart's career after WWII. It also was Frank Capra's return to film and first for his new studio. There was a lot reason for it to succeed. Stewart needed to blame someone--it was n't Capra, it was his co-star. For his part, Capra later realized that he could have done more with Reed. The courtship scenes between her & Stewart in the first half of the movie are much better than the predictable stuff later on.

R124 Jerry Van Dyke might have been no talent on the DVD show, but he was very funny on Coach. One of my favorite shows.

[quote]The show was really well-cast

Seriously? Larry Mathews had to be one of the worst child actors ever.

[quote] Also, does anyone remember Sally's long-suffering boyfriend?

Herman Glimscher, played by Bill Idelson, who'd been a child star on radio, and later went on to write and produce a number of sitcoms.

Larry Matthews and Suzanne Crough of the Partridge Family were the worst child actors. A potted plant would have been better than Suzanne, and more exciting to watch. All Larry ever did was giggle through all his lines.

His name was Herman.

R131 see R129

[quote]I just didn't buy the whole "who can turn the world on with her smile" image she had.

R123. I disagree with you. The MTM theme song was the most perfect song for a lead character of a sitcom ever. Mary Tyler Moore was a real person and of course much more worldly, professional, cynical, three-dimensional, charming and smart. However, for a sitcom at the time, Mary Richards really did 'turn the world on with her smile.' The Mary Tyler Moore Show was the best show ever on television.

I'm gonna be sick.

R77, Donna Reed was not to blame. IAWL is just a shit movie.

R123 Remember this exchange in the MTM episode where Mary and Lou hold out for a raise?

Lou - I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna spend 5000 bucks just to see that smile. Mary (smiling widely) - Thank you Mr. Grant! Lou - I got rooked.

R133, it sure was way up there.

"It's a Wonderful Life" is a kind of a depressing film other than the courtship scenes of Reed and Stewart, and the dancing into the swimming pool. Instead, I much prefer to watch the very funny and uplifting "Christmas in Connecticut" with Barbara Stanwyck, dreamy Dennis Morgan, a funny Sydney Greenstreet and cuddly adorable S.Z. Cuddle Sakall around holiday time.

Jesus Fuck, can you go start a Donna Reed thread somewheres else!

Rose Marie has a Twitter account

R120- The weirdest thing about that first episode was DVD's makeup. Someone thought it was a good idea to cover his eyes with eye shadow. Even in black and white, the effect was disturbing. It made him look like a crazed serial killer.

Did Rose Marie get pissed that Ann Blyth played her namesake role in the movies musical of the same name?

R139, face it, Rosie, ya don't have the stayin' power for your own thread.

R138, love CIC. Man Who Came to Dinner is fun too for the holiday.

R21 - Jerry Paris had kind of a comical face, but I bet he was hot as a nude man.

Is Cloris Leachman a cunt who invented Resting Bitch Face?

Folks, this is my thread! Thank you very much!

[quote]but there was too much competition for airtime during the DVD show.

Bullshit, there was never any competition. That's like if Hillary Clinton said "Donald Trump and I were competitors." Hardly, she never had a chance, an neither did Rose Marie. No one cared about her aged saggy, minimal talent, when you had beautiful Mary to look at.

I know DVD was a bit older than Mary but I'm pretty certain Roe was at least 15 years Mary's senior so I suppose there was competition in that sense. Was Sally ever supposed to have had a larger role? Is this like Tina Louise thinking she was gonna be the star of Gilligan?

It was intended as a workplace comedy so Rose Marie was meant to be the female lead. Then it was changed to a kind of dreary daytime light comedy featuring more of Rob's home life, then back to an evening sitcom where it finally got its bearings.

Rose Marie was my overall favorite actor on the show. Really! She was the only one who I thought would be the most fun at a party. (Happy now RM?) Wikipedia has her being "only" 94 (birthday: August 15, 1923) and not 95 as reported by R84 . Enjoyed the episodes where they got to perform, like the Christmas show. DVD was a little hammy when he performed. BTW - my folks had parties where everyone dressed up like on the DVD show - and occasionally sang songs with one of their friends at the piano. Found out later that this was not common in other homes during the 60's.

Miss Kay Lenz was to guest star on the MTM show, but Mary had her replaced with a short haired blond. Mary wasn't the jealous type because she was such a secret snob. She wasn't bothered by curvy blondes or sexy type young women. Miss Kay Lenz with her dark haired, casual and unusual beauty was too much for Mary to face. She had someone dismiss her. She was replaced by Barbara Corcoran.

Kay Lenz was replaceable

As to whether or not MTM was aloof/unfriendly to her co-stars, did any of you nuclear scientists stop to consider that she was also their boss?

Miss Kay Lenz was replaced on MTM, but never anywhere else. She was introduced and from there on her trajectory was upward, upward, upward. Mary Tyler Moore was too drunk to act as anyone's boss. She had a very healthy appetite for self gratification. Quite a snob about her looks and talent. Miss Kay Lenz is the only one who ever threatened her until Mary was much older and had Dominique Dunne killed.

How in the world did we come to be talking about Donna Reed on a Rose Marie thread? I've been here since the beginning but can't remember how we made that leap.

And didn't Larry Hagman blame Donna Reed for Dallas' sagging ratings?

Has Hillary Clinton blamed Donna Reed yet?

R155 This is exactly how we got here. Someone will see Larry Hagman mentioned and run with it. Thanks a heap.

Can we start a Kay Lenz thread? How come she wasn't a bigger star?

There are more posts about Kay Lenz here than there were in her appreciation thread!

More dish on the movies Donna Reed tanked!

You can see why MTM was so jealous of Kay Lenz. Rose Marie wasn't threatened though.

R112 I grew up in the 1960s (middle class) and my parents never left the house on a Saturday night without being dressed up, dad in a suit and tie, mom in a dressy dress. It didn't matter if they were going to a restaurant, theater, nightclub, or a dinner party at someone's house, they always dressed well. As did people who came over to our house when my parent threw parties.

The exception would be a backyard bbq, but even then men would wear a sport jacket, but no tie.

FWIW, as a suburban I always wondered how Buddy and Sally got out to New Rochelle. Did they have cars? Did they take the train? Did Sally go back to her apartment and change clothes and then schlep all the way to Westchester?

I think that Donna Reed is getting a bum rap for IAWL and Dallas, but I thought she wasn't Oscar-worthy in 'From Here to Eternity', especially considering there were so many other superlative performances. Deborah Kerr should have won, as should Montgomery Clift have won.

r112 You were.

I say this all the time...real-world people aren't always friends with their coworkers, why should actors be any different? I act very professionally with people I can't stand, but I'm civil and I behave.

You sir are no Morey Amsterdam @ R165. He and Mary carried on an affair for years, but didn't get along on set. The dynamics are very different in show biz. There's much more sexual tension.

I had a friend who worked with MTM before her stardom back when she was doing commercials. She said MTM was an overly ambitious bitch who only cared about her career. She dumped her first husband because of her career ambitions.

Rose Marie should have been awfully grateful for the DVD show. By the early 1960s, she was a nobody without a career. By Hollywood standards she was old and unattractive and hard to cast.

My mother knew who she was, but my mother was Rose Marie's age...she was an unknown to anyone younger.

Be that as it may, she was perfect for that role...and very, very lucky to get it.

A little Rose Marie and a little Morey Amsterdam were easy to digest, but when they featured either of them in an entire episode, it was glaringly obvious why they were mostly second bananas. Overacting and hammy from start to finish. Those episodes had me looking at my watch a lot.

There was never enough Millie and Jerry in any episode. Not even going to mention how the quality of the show was bumped up whenever Carl Reiner came on to play Alan Brady. The sight of Alan piling on his various rugs for Laura after she let it slip out that he wore toupees was hysterical.

FYI ... Rose Marie was one of the performers at the opening night of the Flamingo Hotel in Las Vegas, the first hotel on the strip

An old thread about Rose Marie. Post shit about her on there.

What an ego Rose Marie had thinking anyone would want to look at her nasty ass. And Ann Morgan Guilbert was much funnier than her anyway in the old lady role.

I also remember hearing that both Jimmy Stewart & Frank Capra blamed Donna Reed for "IaWL" tanking. I was shocked and like everyone else remembered thinking "What the hell did she have to do with it?"

There wasn't reason given (when I heard this mentioned) -does anyone know what their thinking was?

I'm no fan of Reed (except for her casting of the beautiful Carl Betz in her show) but it made no sense to me. I think it was just a situation of wanting to blame someone and neither one of them felt they could possibly be blamed.

It was Donna's first big role. They had originally wanted Ginger Rogers or June Allison - but neither worked out. So maybe it wasn't so much that they blamed Donna but they thought that the movie would have done better with a big name female lead.

* oops - I think her name is spelled June Allyson.

BTW, how can you have an entire thread about Rose Marie? Even throwing in MTM.

R170 61 Posts ain't hay.

[quote]Kay Lenz was replaceable

Cute to have around though.

Lenz actually could be seen as a younger, prettier version of Mary so I can see why having her around bothered MTM.

[quote]Morey Amsterdam ... and Mary carried on an affair for years

I know you're lying but that's strangely hot.

Rose Marie appeared with Phil Silvers in one of the worst movie musicals of all time, "Top Banana." Basically they just filmed the stage version.

Buck would've never been friends will Rose Marie!

We have a winner...!

You cunts do know I starred with Kay Lenz in THE INITIATION OF SARAH, don’t you? Why no mention of me?

Documentary trailer

Am I still alive? Asking for a friend.

Kay Lenz is the poor man's everybody.

I first saw Lenz in a TV movie Lisa Bright and Dark or something like that. She was very good and I always tried to catch anything else she was in.

I could not stand it when Rose Marie sang. It was like chewing aluminum foil or nails on a chalkboard. She had a horrible raspy voice. If I record reruns I always ff any episode that features Rose Marie and MA. I can take a little of them but not much. DVD would have been a one season show if they had followed the original premise of mostly Rob at work and little of Laura and even the kid. I don't think he was that bad, not near as annoying to me as "Kitten" on Father Knows Best. My favorite though was Millie. The actress was in an episode of Modern Family a few seasons back playing Cam's gay hating grandmother. She was so funny. She still has it. Still very tiny and thin.

At the beginning of that clip at r183, you can see a woman with her hand up to her face. That is the great Patsy Kelly, a wonderful comic who went way back in movies. Always the wacky best friend dropping killer lines all over the place. (Allegedly of the lesbionic persuasion.)

She also steals this episode as a juror in the extremely funny episode that has Rob taking part in jury duty.

Her line is "I don't even like his show!" with a huge shrug of her shoulders. You have to see it to appreciate it.

Also in "Rosemary's Baby."

Everyone knows Mare was a cunt. Talented, yes. Engaging on TV? Yes.

But she put the unt in cunt.

How funny that MTM hated Kay Lenz but cast Joy Lenz as her daughter in the TV movie. (Even though granddaughter would have made more sense agewise).

My favorite episode was when the kids set up an intercom between the Petri's home and the Halper's home and Rob and Laura heard the Halpers talking about them.

[quote]She still has it. Still very tiny and thin.

She's even tinier now, being dead and all.

Thinking about twenty something Kay Lenz has actually made me a tad moist.

I also love the nude painting of Laura episode. Laura had been dating an artist and posed for a painting for him. Completely clothed. He later altered the painting to make it look like she had posed nude. Millie and Laura are browsing in an art store in Manhattan and Millie finds it.

AND

Mostly for Millie's part in this one. Laura thinks she broke up someone's marriage and it's been bother her all night. Millie asks her whats wrong. Laura says "can you keep a secret Millie?" The way Ann/Millie deadpans her for about five seconds then says "tell me anyway." Is fucking hysterical.

[quote] My favorite episode was when the kids set up an intercom between the Petri's home and the Halper's home and Rob and Laura heard the Halpers talking about them.

That was a recycled plot line from 'Housewarming', an I LOVE LUCY episode. It's the famed episode where Vivian Vance says 'I have sufficient'

[quote] Fred Mertz installs an intercom system between the Mertz guest-house and the Ricardo main house. The intercom causes some confusion when Lucy and Ricky overhear what they believe to be plans for a housewarming party given for them.

And you, r188.........

I believe Sally finds the portrait at an art gallery and calls Laura.

And while the intercom idea may be an echo of the Lucy plot, the Helpers actually say some negative but accurate things about the Petries (Laura left something out of a recipe, and Rob is no Albert Schweitzer...!)

[quote] It's the famed episode where Vivian Vance says 'I have sufficient'

I thought that was the Alberquerque episode....

I didn't think Larry Mathews was a terrible child actor. As Ritchie he came across as dopey and weird, and it suited the character perfectly. It seemed right that Rob and Laura, two eccentric people themselves, would have a child like that.

[quote] I thought that was the Alberquerque episode....

You were WRONG!!!!

It was the episode where they discuss Albuquerque

r168, "Coast to Coast Big Mouth" is surely the funniest episode of the DVD Show, and is one of a handful of the funniest episodes of a sitcom ever made.

Not only does it have the great gag of Carl Reiner talking to his various toupees like they're his friends, but his MTM's funniest scene on the show ever, where she describes all the things she won on the game shows in tears to Rob before she explains that she also let it slip on TV that Alan Brady is bald.

MTM is the most criminally underrated comedienne ever. People fondly remember her as Laura Petrie and Mary Richards mostly for her innocence and her vivacity, but she had superb comic timing--almost genius level. Two of the funniest sitcom episodes of all time, "Chuckles Bites the Dust" and "Coast to Coast Big Mouth," owe their greatest laughs not to MTM being the straight woman but to MTM showing she really had amazing comedy chops.

This thread got me wondering so I watched some Dick Van Dyke on Netflix. The Rose Marie character ("Sally") was a little annoying but OK. The Mary Tyler Moore character ("Laura") on the other hand was absolutely insufferable. Submissive, weak and whining with that "Oh Rob" business. You got to hand it to Moore for going and becoming a star after such a weak role.

I don't see why this should be considered more Rose Marie's thread than Mary Tyler Moore's. They're both mentioned in the thread title.

....

I've always wondered why, in the opening credits, Buddy and Sally are in Rob's living room. They are dressed as if just finished work for the day and Rob is suprised to see them. Laura mouths "we have guests" as Rob enters (just before he trips over the Ottoman).

If they left from work, wouldn't they tell Rob they'd be stopping by?

IIRC Sally lived in Manhattan and Buddy in one of the suburbs (Yonkers? Queens?)

A favorite epsidoe of mine: ""Ghost of A. Chantz", where the gang spends the night in a haunted cabin.

R201, MTM is absolutely not underrated as a comedienne. She’s considered to be one of the top 3 TV comediennes of all time, along with Lucy and Carol.

Mad magazine named her "Rose Marry Me", which completely suits her persona. On "Hollywood Squares", she would often do weird jokes about rape. Example: Q: What night of the week are women most raped? Rose: With my luck, it's tonight and I have to work.

Wow, I'm as un-PC as it gets and even I think that went too far.

[quote] I much prefer to watch the very funny and uplifting "Christmas in Connecticut" with Barbara Stanwyck, dreamy Dennis Morgan

Isn't that that movie where Stanwyck's and Morgan's characters are flagrantly trying to hook up with each other right in front of the lovesick guy she's promised to marry even though he's materially supporting her in some grand deceit the hot soldier doesn't know about in order to save her career?

Sorry, I thought they were both assholes and I just didn't give a shit about their romance.

However, the sets were very appealing and Morgan is cute as fuck.

I think MTM was brilliant as an actress at body language, facial expressions and vocal inflections. The shot of her tossing the pack of meat into the grocery store cart in the opening credits of the MTM Show illustrates this. You don't even need words. And the montage of "Oh Rob!" clips linked earlier in this thread also illustrates this. The same two words have vastly different meanings depending on how she says them.

Sorry, I don't know the ins and outs of NYC. Can you take a subway to New Rochelle?

New R o c h e l l e?

Metro North

r211 - no

MTM said in her biography that there was tension between her and Rose Marie.

The show was originally conceived to be a workplace sitcom and Rose Marie thought she would be the leading lady. When they started to build up the home life of the character and MTM started winning Emmys Rose Marie was not pleased.

....

[quote]The show was originally conceived to be a workplace sitcom and Rose Marie thought she would be the leading lady.

Yes, until the producers realized that it's better when people want to FUCK the leading lady.

As a child, I was shocked by Rose-Marie's pockmarked cheeks on Hollywood Squares. And she seemed so snide and unpleasant, even mean. And that bow in her hair - cretinish. She gave me the creeps and I never saw her in a favourable light again during DVD reruns.

On a different note, did Buddy's wife Pickles appear more then once? I remember her in a restaurant with the rest of the cast, asking for a cafe au lait without the au lait. I remember as taller than Buddy, much younger than Buddy, a bit fat but not at all slovenly.

There were two people playing Pickles. The first one was replaced by the lady who played the band leader in "Some Like It Hot." There were a few episodes that featured Pickles. The funniest one was where Buddy was sure that Pickles was cheating on him. Buddy wasn't the funny one but Pickles and Rob were terrifically funny in their big scene together.

This is the second Pickles , Joan Shawlee. The first Pickles was an actress named Barbara Perry.

[quote]I especially hate it when salespeople in stores get along SWIMMINGLY well with each other, and are so busy chatting that they have no time to help customers. I always want to interrupt them and say, "Excuse me, could you please hate each other as much as I hate MY coworkers, so you won't be talking and I can get some service around here??"

Consider this taken.

Barbara Perry was a very good comedic character actress, but Joan Shawlee was perfection as Buddy's wife. I wish she had appeared in more episodes. Damn, that woman was a fine comedic actress.

Joan sucked all the cocks. Including the colored boy who brought the donuts to the set.

R168- I have to agree that Sally and Buddy were fine in small doses but when the story revolved around them, it kind of fell apart. Like the time Sally thought she had a date with an old friend but then she mistakenly thinks he wants to just sell her life insurance. That episode was incredibly dull.

I thought some of the best scenes were with Laura and Millie. The episode where Rob goes fishing and Millie stays with Laura overnight and they wind up thinking someone is breaking into the house was hilarious. And they gave Millie some of the best lines-- "Mrs. Miniver had such strength." "Didn't you see that Alfred Hitchcock picture? You're better off dirty than dead."

Pickles Sorrell was the absolute best.

To above, I agree Mary Tyler Moore was great.

She wasn't almost a comedic genius -- she was absolutely a comedic genius.

And the way she played Beth Jarrett was extraordinary genius.

Don't talk to me that way. Don't you talk to me the way that he talks to you.

They cut most of Rose Marie's part, including her solos, from that film of "Top Banana" though.

In "Christmas in Connecticut", Stanwyck is flirting with Morgan, but he is trying to resist as he thinks she is a married woman, though he is attracted to her. He's adorable. The guy helping out Stanwyck's career by allowing her the use of his place is trying to marry her, but he is represented as being comparatively boring as compared to Morgan. If you like the other guy's type, I guess I can understand why you might not like Stanwyck's character, but her comic timing is pretty impeccable.

Can I just interrupt the proceedings for a moment to say that Dick Van Dyke, without question,EPITOMIZES "BDF".

Big DUCK face. '

Hey, folks, New Rochelle is just 45 minutes from Broadway!

But you can get there by subway and 2 busses.

So much good stuff in that episode of Millie and Laura staying in the Petrie house alone.

Millie comes back early from that fishing trip to keep Laura company and finds Laura in the shower while her red stained night gown is laying on the bed. Millie wonders if the stain might be tomato juice and picks it up to lick it, makes a face and parroting a then current commercial says. " Boy, it sure doesn't taste like tomato juice."

The best part for me is the very end when you see Rob and Laura sleeping in their separate beds and a noise wakes them both up and Rob jumps out of bed and steps right on Millie's throat, because she is sleeping on the floor between the two beds.

Dennis Morgan was the perfect nice/sexy guy next door.

r185 = MTM from her tomb-installed PC.

[quote]How funny that MTM hated Kay Lenz but cast Joy Lenz as her daughter in the TV movie.

By then she was a million years old, and the bloom was off Lenz's rose too.

[quote]The Mary Tyler Moore character ("Laura") on the other hand was absolutely insufferable. Submissive, weak and whining with that "Oh Rob" business.

Major social changes since the early 60s have really dated the show, I agree.

Sorry, misread your comment -- Kay for Joy.

Even Doris Day hated Rose Marie and had her fired off her show.

Two buses and a train r230? Can you Imagine that, can you imagine that?

MTM would have won the Tony for Breakfast at Tiffany's if it had actually opened.

[quote] Two buses and a train [R230]? Can you Imagine that, can you imagine that?

Two buses--red! And a train--yellow!

R238 Everybody knew (his) name

[quote] But you can get there by subway and 2 busses.

were they french busses?

More likely bisous r242.

Interview from last year

[quote]By then she was a million years old, and the bloom was off Lenz's rose too.

Miss Kay Lenz is in bloom forever.

Re: R201 's comments about "Coast to Coast Blabbermouth' and 'Chuckles Bites The Dust'. For me the reason those two shows stand out is that the are so relateable.

Who among us hasn't blurted out something embarrassing or lost their composure at precisely the wrong time? MTM is the everywoman in those episodes and we cringe right along with her. But the writing is so brilliant that we scream with laughter as well. Somebody like Lucille Ball couldn't have carried it off.

Not the best DVD episode, but one that sticks in my memory in a flashback to when Rob was in the service, vying for MTM with Van Williams! So handsome in his uniform! Unfortunately, he never gets out of it, but this is always the problem when straight men produce television shows.

Really, it wouldn't have been hard to work a men's steam room sequence into the continuity. And thus exposing Van's talent would have won the show an Emmy.

Rose Marie seems to have all her marbles. A little full of herself, but funny. Great stories. Although I'll bet she did know Selma Diamond and knew she wasn'tdead yet--she did game shows and talk shows in that era, she got around.

Rose Marie has all her marbles, all her teeth AND all the prizes. Here she clutches her honorary Oscar. Take that dead Mary!

'Chuckles Bites The Dust' is one one of the worst MTM episodes.

The writers scraped the barrel for laughs: "he went to the parade dressed as a Peter Peanut and a rogue elephant tried to shell him."

The MTM show was known for sophisticated comedy, not that kind of sophomoric drek. And it gets worse.

The episode comes off as a variety show comic skit on the level of "The Red Skelton Show".

I don't mind the bad jokes, but I've always had a problem with the premise. The idea is that if you laugh about something like a death you can get it out of your system. It made no sense when Mary starts laughing during the funeral that the others look at her disapprovingly. In real life, after they made all those jokes, anything could set them off again. They would have ALL been laughing.

Having her of all people (the show's "straight man") laugh at the funeral is the best part of that episode and makes up for the lame jokes before hand. Having a clergyman tell the "a little song, a little dance, a little seltzer in your pants" line in his deadpan clergy voice is utterly perfect as the set-up.

'Chuckles Bites The Dust' is a one joke premise, clubbed to death.

It's as if the regular MTM writers were on vacation and left the writing to the interns.

Remember that MTM started going for the slapstick as well. Lou dumping a dessert on Beverly Garland's head, Murray putting Sue Ann the low cal wedding cake. Hardly sophisticated.

It's interesting that the DVD writers were still able to come up with really good episodes even in the last season of the show- usually that's when they run out of steam.

But the episode where Millie spends the night at Laura's is in the last season. Also the episode where Rob goes up to a cabin to write is in the last season. So many good episodes happened in that last year--Rob's new watch is stolen and he thinks one of his friends did it, that ugly Petrie broach gets broken etc.

R228 for the win

She had an odd voice as a child.

One of the last performers left from Old Hollywood.

^^^Baby Rose Marie looks like middle age Carrie Fisher.

I can't believe no one yet has mentioned the DVD episode in which Rob and Laura think that Ritchie might have been mistakenly switched for another baby when he was born.

The surprise ending was truly a landmark in TV history and American culture. I was in junior high back then and remember everyone talking about it the next day at school.

R258 Little Rosie doesn't look like an old ugly hag.

Now, Donna Reed - there was a HAG!

R259 The husband in that surprise ending was played by Greg Morris, later of "Mission: Impossible," and the father of Phil Morris (Jackie Chiles on "Seinfeld.")

I remember Greg Morris smoking a lot on MI r262, but giving that moniker to his son is just.....well...too product placement for me.

My favorite MTM episode is "Veal Prince Orloff" (which I thought was a made up thing, even though it is a real dish)

My favorite DVD is "How Richie Got His Name" episode "E-D-W-A-R-D, EDWARD!"

I don't have any one favourite MTM episode as there are many, but the All About Eve themed show is classic Sue Ann. She sabotages her Eve-esque assistant (who replaces Sue Ann as host of her show) by orchestrating a station-wide food poisoning incident. Murray says something like, "I feel like I swallowed a warm mitten" as the newsroom starts to get symptomatic. That's a line I've used on a few apt occasions.

Linda Kelsey, who played Gloria the assistant on that episode, was memorable in at least one episode of M.A.S.H. and had guest appearances on many popular 70s shows such as Rockford Files, Quincy M.E., etc. She met Ed Asner when filming that MTM episode, and was cast as reporter Billie Newman on Lou Grant when the original actress was deemed "too perky." That actress probably had "spunk" too.

This isn't a great clip but it was the only one I found on YouTube.

The Lars Affair. Sue Ann to Phyllis after she slams the oven door, ruining her chocolate souffle - "My poor baby! How anyone could do that to an innocent souffle that never did anyone any harm."

R266, the best part is her slamming the oven door by lifting her leg up in a very unladylike manner.

This episode merges the cast away from the office and New Rochelle. It's a great example of the physical comedy and tight writing of DVD. This is an episode that Jerry Paris directed.

Phyllis Whips Inflation. Doris Roberts played a temp office worker who asks Phyllis what her special qualifications are. Phyllis - "I have the uncanny knack for choosing the right wine for dinner."

If you listen carefully to Rob talking to Laura in the first few episodes, he seems to call her Lory and not Laura.

Another masterpiece of a scene is when Jerry lends Rob a rifle for protection from cat burglars in the neighborhood. Rob gets one bullet for the gun and tells Laura to put it away in a safe place. She decides to put it in her musical jewelry box. Of course they are wakened by noises in the house and Rob grabs the rifle to see what's up. He asks Laura for the bullet and she tells him it is the jewelry box. Rob opens it and of course the damned thing starts playing a music box tinkly tune., breaking the silence in the house. After trying to get the bullet out fast with as little music playing as possible, the box stops playing.

Since it's the DVD show after Rob locates the lone bullet and inserts it in the rifle, he starts to slowly approach the bedroom door. He reaches out to the door knob and extremely slowly he starts to open the door. The music box which had been silent for a while, springs to life and the song starts playing again, matching exactly the door slowly being pulled open. Rob is caught so unaware that he is too stunned to move, looking all around to locate that music source. DVD is a master at this type of comedy. It is hysterical.

Laurie was her name for most of the first season. It then went to Laura.

Laura's last name also varied between Meeker and Meehan.

Just the first couple of episodes, not most of the first season

For the first couple of episodes Rose's name was Joe.

Mary's first husband and the father of her only son was named Meeker.

R192, If you can't beat 'em, beat 'em off.

Knowing that anyone is thinking about her makes Kay Lenz moist.

It was HIGHLY unusual for a young actress to have 3 names - MARY TYLER MOORE - back then. It made her seem very classy and stage-trained, at least to me and my junior high buddies back then.

Did Anne Morgan Guilbert follow suit or was she always known by that?

Then again, Rose Marie didn't seem to have a last name!

R278 — Rose Marie's last name was Von Beaverhausen.

FINALLY this thread gets back to me! Thank you very MUCH!

Was the Dick Van Dyke Show filmed in Los Angeles?

[quote] Was the Dick Van Dyke Show filmed in Los Angeles?

Yes, DVD writes in his autobiography that he couldn't wait to finish his year with BYE BYE BIRDIE and move the family to California

And yet it really felt and looked like it took place in Manhattan and New Rochelle.

....

It is kinda amazing that a Vaudeville star has a Twitter account in 2017.

she was so thirsty

Jesus, who ponied up the dough for this trick's Walk of Fame star?

Rose also starred with Joan Rivers' in her notorious Broadway flop "Fun City." Rose said in her autobiography that Rivers had no idea how to construct the comedy because it was just joke, joke, joke and no setup. It got savage reviews with Martin Gottfried saying that it defined lowest common denominator because it was the lowest and most common. Rivers appeared/wrote in vehicles that were among the very worst in every field: Broadway: Fun City, Movies: Rabbit Test, TV: After the Laughter, The Joan and Melissa Rivers Story.

R140, I just clicked on your link and Rose Marie recently tweeted about having her music cut from Top Banana because she wouldn't sleep with the producer. It must feel good to be in the business so long and witness the fall of a big producer/distributor like Weinstein.

*If this has been discussed, please ignore. I'm still reading through the posts*

She may not have been friends with Mary but she was always trying to be my friend. I told her to take a long walk on a short pier

Rose Marie and Vicki Gunvalson are close.

Why do I get the feeling that MTM was not happy having Ann Morgan Guilbert on the set? "Millie" blew "Laura" right off the screen time after time after time. She knew where the laughs were and nailed them. Plus, Ann had a life after DVD and created some very indelible, different characters in the years that followed and never lost that key ingredient to comic acting: timing. Fabulous right up to the end.

Poor Rose Marie had two glorious "bitches" taking screen time away from her.

Niecy Nash to patient Ann Morgan Guilbert: "That's your little pussy, Birdie." *****Dead*****

Where Ann lived until her death.

[quote]Laurie was her name for most of the first season. It then went to Laura.

No, it was very prominent in the pilot episode (the house was also different) but it didn't last more than one or two episodes longer.

[quote]I can't believe no one yet has mentioned the DVD episode in which Rob and Laura think that Ritchie might have been mistakenly switched for another baby when he was born.

I can't believe you think that was "landmark" in anyway, but then again, you think Laura thought the baby was switched when she had no doubts it wasn't. Stop remembering things that never happened.

"In those days being unmarried was considered a cruel and pitiable fate, as evidenced by the desperate to be married Sally Rogers."

Um, not exactly, certainly not in New York where the show supposedly took place. But TV must dumb things down for the greater perspective.

One of the funniest DVD episodes is when Laura is home alone (soon to be joined by Millie) and they get spooked out of their minds. Not only is the episode a riot but it shows Laura and Millie can carry off almost an entire show alone without need of Rob, Buddy, Sally or Jerry.

Rose Marie was not hygienic, well let's just say there's a reason I started wearing that yellow rain coat AFTER she joined my show

Another excellent episode is when the gang have to get back a script from Alan because they wrote nasty comments on it. This one is excellent because it allows Richard Deacon to show off his comedy and it's nice to see Mel have the upper hand in the end.

[quote]One of the funniest DVD episodes is when Laura is home alone (soon to be joined by Millie) and they get spooked out of their minds. Not only is the episode a riot but it shows Laura and Millie can carry off almost an entire show alone without need of Rob, Buddy, Sally or Jerry.

Oh God...I just watched it. It's still laugh-out-loud funny, not a bit dated, perfectly written and acted.

I liked the episode with the space aliens from the planet Twylo, and the scene where Laura came out from the living room closet in a sea of walnuts.

I don't think Mary would have hated Ann. The character of Laura is on a whole different level when she's playing with just Millie. Mary seems to have always appreciated talent. Whether it stole the scene from her or not. Millie is the greatest thing about the show. I would have loved to see more Millie/Laura centered episodes. Maybe Ann was right though thinking that a little of Millie went a long way.

I remember seeing Mary on Merv Griffin in 1971. She was cold and unsociable. Very Shocking for this MTM fan.

First few episodes of the Dick Van Dyke Show, what you never see in sitcoms: KITCHEN WALL PHONE

Telephone on the wall in the kitchen like 100% of America. But soon they moved the phone to the counter like 100% of TV sitcoms.

I can picture Rose Marie really, really loathing Ann.

AMG seemed thoroughly lacking in ambition. I doubt RM would have loathed her unless they were both regulars, vting for material and awards.

Ann's husband was a heavy hitting producer and tv script writer so I'll bet she had his input vetting any scripts that came her way from DVD. She might not have needed to work constantly given her husband's status and because she was starting a family. But I suspect that she was wise enough to understand that had she been a regular on the show her talent and MTM's could have gone from chemistry to something that was a negative or stale interaction. And she'd seen what played out with MTM and Rose Marie. I applaud her for keeping Millie a less frequent but always welcomed interjection in the standard weekly vibe.

She was so good on The Nanny that I didn't have a fucking clue it was her until the credits rolled.

R303 Either one was dial-able with a pencil.

AMG's daughter is Hallie Todd, who was a regular on the groundbreaking gay sitcom "Brothers," and played Blanche's slutty niece Lucy on "Golden Girls." She was also Lizzie McGuire's mother.

I so wanted Mary to have one more hit show. To make it three. But her variety show Mary was so bad. It was Life With Lucy bad.

She also did another sitcom with Peggy Bundy herself, Katie Sagal doing Nora Ephron. It was another flop.

Lorne Michaels said that she and Lucy were interesting because in interviews, Gary would sit next to her and never say anything. When Mary was married to Grant Tinker, he would do all the talking and Mary would say nothing.

I think the Cleavers had a wall phone.

Those aren't Rose Marie's real teeth in her adult life are they. Even on DVD it looks like dentures.

She could sing as kid it seems but not as an adult. She must have been a 12 pack a day smoker to go from the voice she had as a kid to the one on DVD. I could not stand any episode where Sally sang or the ones that they did variety acts like something with a prison or others. I hate when any non musical show goes off in that direction. I want comedy on a comedy show and drama on a drama show. If I want music I'll listen to music.

Did she ever dance as a kid. It looks like she didn't move much when she sang back then, the 1920s I would guess by the hair.

Rose's teeth look like they are 1/2 a size to big for her mouth. Whenever I saw her smile ear to ear I thought her teeth were going to rip through her cheeks and lips.

If Merv couldn't warm up MTM then you know she was a cold fish. His talk show was pure show biz trivia and funny stories.

Is it possible she knew Merv was gay and her right wing sensibility kicked in and she didn't approve?

Rose Marie lost her husband to a long term illness during the run of the DVD show. She said that it devastated her.

R293, she was called Laurie by Rob and Buddy multiple times during season one.

They considered using Rose as the vocal double for Roz Russell in "Gypsy". She might have done better for Lucy in "Mame".

Rose Marie weighs in on Weinstein.

Lots of sadness and pain there. But hope for the future.

RoseMarie4Real 16h16 hours ago

I’ve worked since I was 3, Im 94. W/ Weinstein, finally women are speaking up to power. I have suffered my whole life for that. Don't stop

Oh please, R314. MTM was extremely nervous, and she wasn't a natural jokester or naturally friendly. She came off badly and I (age 15) was shocked that she wasn't remotely like Mary Richards.

I always assumed Anne M Guilbert wasn't on the show too often because her tv hubby Jerry Paris began to direct more eps and act less. It's good to know it was her decision and not because her hubby was never around much.

Has anyone seen the documentary about her life?

r315

Name them.

[quote]I think the Cleavers had a wall phone.

In the kitchen but in the living room it was on the table.

Name what, R321? They called Laura, Laurie. They also had a wall phone in the kitchen, then switched it to the counter.

I do remember Dick calling Laura Laurie in one episode, but I don't recall any of the other characters calling her that.

[quote] Has anyone seen the documentary about her life?

Yes, and it's great fun. The director spoke at a Q&A and talked about the recreated footage. Apparently they even used vintage equipment for period accuracy. It's a very interesting movie, she's had quite a life.

Yes R314. In the movie she breaks down when she talks about losing him, over 50 years ago.

It's similar to the Joan Rivers documentary in that you discover that these women had a deep seated need to work. Unlike Alice Faye, who walked off 20th Century Fox the lot in 1945 and, except for STATE FAIR in 1962, never went back and was content to do radio and then relax in Palm Springs, Rose Marie went headlong from project to project. Part of it was probably simply to pay the bills after Bobby Guy died, but surely she made enough after Hollywood Squares to kick back, but, as she says herself, she's ready for her next role.

I've been watching YouTube videos of Baby Rose Marie warbling such tunes as "Take A Picture Of The Moon." That growly voice of hers! So cute.

Whatever Ann and Mary felt toward each other, Laura and Miller had the best chemistry on the show, on par with Laura and Rob.

Ann said she got the job at Jerry Paris's suggestion and was initially rejected as not pretty enough, but Jerry assured them she would be best for it. Ann therefore only got paid per episode. She said the second year when DVD got picked up (it almost didn't), they offered her a contract, and she declined, because she was raising a family and she said, if she had a contract, she'd get paid, therefore she'd have to show up regardless and they would use her character in the script simply because she was already getting paid.

By only getting paid per episode without any contract, she said, she knew that Millie would have good lines because they would only use her when they had something good for her and felt it worth paying her. This allowed her to be with her children and get the best lines for Millie. Which it pretty much did. Any episode Millie is in, is pretty good.

That makes a lot of sense. Millie really was a gem of a character.

Who among us knew that Ann Morgan Guilbert and Bill Idelson, aka Herman Glimscher, were very good longtime friends? I stumbled across this touching and funny video while looking for videos about Sid Caesar and Carl Reiner.

In addition to acting as Herman Glimscher (and at least one episode as a bellboy) Bill Idelson wrote some episodes of the Dick Van Dyke Show, Twilight Zone, Andy Griffith Show, Get Smart, The Odd Couple, M.A.S.H., Happy Days and Gomer Pyle, U.S.M.C. He also produced and/or directed many popular shows like The Bob Newhart Show and Love American Style.

She's dead to me

Laura and Miller? Arthur Miller?

I think Rose Marie is fascinating. She was kind of a weird looking kid, but she was super talented as a singer, and deserving of her own show. As an adult she had a large head, masculine nose and jaw, and relatively small features. In the 1950s, her look was not attractive. I think she looked her best in the 1960s and 1970s. Somebody figured out that they needed to make her hair bigger to make the rest of her face look in proportion. She was not bad looking, and I think that episode of Friends where they made fun of her appearance was highly disrespectful.

CBS aired two episodes of the Dick Van Dyke show around xmas that I watched with my dad. I had never seen it before. I was surprised that Van Dyke was practically the straight man to Mary Tyler Moore, who was the center of both episodes. At least in those two eps, she was much funnier and more charismatic than anyone else on the show. Van Dyke only made me laugh a couple of times with physical comedy.