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The plot thickens: North Korea prisoner Otto Warmbier had no signs of torture – coroner

A medical examiner has said that the body of Otto Warmbier, the American student who died days after being released from North Korea in a coma, displayed no obvious signs of torture, despite claims by his parents and President Donald Trump that he was physically abused following his arrest last year.

Lakshmi Sammarco, a coroner in Warmbier’s home state of Ohio, said the 22-year-old, who had been sentenced to 15 years’ hard labour while visiting North Korea, had died from a lack of oxygen and blood to the brain but could not explain what caused his neurological condition.

“We don’t know what happened to him, and this is the bottom line,” Sammarco said, adding that the cause of the death may never be known.

The revelations came a day after Warmbier’s parents and Trump accused the regime of torturing Warmbier, who had been convicted of trying to steal a propaganda poster from a Pyongyang hotel in March 2016 and sentenced to 15 years’ hard labour.

Fred and Cindy Warmbier told US TV networks on Tuesday that their son had showed signs of torture, including teeth that appeared to have been “rearranged” and hands and feet that were disfigured.

“They kidnapped Otto, they tortured him, they intentionally injured him. They are not victims, they are terrorists,” Fred Warmbier said on Fox and Friends.

He said his son’s mouth “looked like someone had taken a pair of pliers and rearranged his bottom teeth”.

After the interview was aired, the US president for the first time accused the North Korean regime of torturing Warmbier. Trump called the parents’ interview with Fox “great” and said: “Otto was tortured beyond belief by North Korea.”

But Sammarco, who examined Warmbier’s body after his death in June, said there was no clear evidence of physical torture – including no recently broken bones or damaged teeth.

“We’re never going to know, unless the people who were there come forward and say: ‘This is what happened to Otto.’”

Warmbier’s body displayed a few small scars, all but one of which could be traced to medical instruments, she said, adding that the Warmbiers’ TV interviews had prompted her to publicly reveal her findings.

“They’re grieving parents. I can’t really make comments on their perceptions,” she added.

Her report showed the University of Virginia student had died following complications resulting from a lack of oxygen to the brain. His condition had been caused by “an unknown insult more than a year prior to death”, the report said.

Warmbier’s parents had refused to allow an autopsy to be carried out.

Sammarco said she had conducted a “virtual autopsy” using extensive medical scanning and imaging, adding that a regular autopsy would have been of little use so long after Warmbier suffered brain damage.

She said that his body was in surprisingly good condition for someone who had reportedly been bedridden for more than a year. Her office’s report said his body appeared “well-nourished”.

Warmbier died in Cincinnati in June, less than a week after he was flown back to the US in a state of “unresponsive wakefulness”.

Three Americans accused of various crimes against the state remain behind bars in North Korea, which is engaged in a tense standoff with the Trump administration over its ballistic missile and nuclear weapons programmes.

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by Anonymousreply 53February 8, 2018 10:24 PM

sounds very very mysterious. . . .

by Anonymousreply 1September 28, 2017 4:34 AM

Was he in some black site and not in NK?

by Anonymousreply 2September 28, 2017 4:41 AM

How can the parents be on the news today claiming torture and yet would not allow an autopsy to prove it? Sure, they were/are grieving the loss of their son and I am sure they did not want to exacerbate their own grief but c'mon. NOW they are on the news about all of this and yet declined to allow the autopsy? You can't have it both ways, parents. You have inserted yourselves into a political mess and have made yourselves seem complicit in some mysterious cover-up. Something is not adding up.

by Anonymousreply 3September 28, 2017 4:46 AM

Is it possible he attempted suicide? He tried to hang himself and he was resuscitated but left with massive brain damage?

by Anonymousreply 4September 28, 2017 4:48 AM

I think they're exaggerating what Otto went through in order to shame the media or the Obama administration for not doing enough to free him.

by Anonymousreply 5September 28, 2017 4:48 AM

My money is on what R4 is saying. That was my first thought after I had read the most recent article. They tried to intubate him or something like that, but the brain damage from the lack of oxygen was permanent.

by Anonymousreply 6September 28, 2017 4:50 AM

[quote]Warmbier’s parents had refused to allow an autopsy to be carried out.

We’re they religious or something? Why would they object to an autopsy? You’d think they’d want the truth of NK barbarism known.

by Anonymousreply 7September 28, 2017 4:52 AM

Also, he's not the first American to be imprisoned in NK. The prisoners are way more valuable to them alive and healthy than crippled or dead. Their sole purpose is to be used as bargaining chips in negotiations.

by Anonymousreply 8September 28, 2017 4:54 AM

Would forcing a tube down his throat break his teeth?

by Anonymousreply 9September 28, 2017 4:55 AM

alas, sounds like they are fine allowing their son's tragedy to be used for trump's usual bullshit, shooting his mouth off with no factual basis.

good for the doc for setting the record straight

by Anonymousreply 10September 28, 2017 5:00 AM

I just finished reading it (twice) and it is just so bizarre. R9 he had no damage to his teeth.

[quote]But Sammarco, who examined Warmbier’s body after his death in June, said there was no clear evidence of physical torture – including no recently broken bones or damaged teeth.

And from another article

[quote]"So we didn't see any evidence of healing fractures or healed fractures that would have been within that time frame.

His parents made up the damaged teeth and the damaged feet. Sammarco did all she could do without an autopsy, which she said wouldn't have shown much at this point / with this issue. Her other comments were interesting

[quote]She said that his body was in surprisingly good condition for someone who had reportedly been bedridden for more than a year. Her office’s report said his body appeared “well-nourished”.

I wonder if they poisoned him & then the poison didn't kill him... (perhaps by accident / perhaps deliberately) so they figured they would send him back. He was likely not bed-ridden that long given the examination findings.

NK probably has the same suicide stigma we do here (likely far worse), so would there be a point to lie about that?

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by Anonymousreply 11September 28, 2017 5:00 AM

I was always so freaked out for Will Ripley reporting from NK until recently. I have no idea how he had the balls to live there and report from there. It just felt like any minute they could've pulled up some BS lie about him saying something they didn't like and thrown him in jail.

His special was really good though, if anyone saw it. Of course the whole thing was supervised by the government, but he managed to get some interesting scenes and interviews. It was telling how indoctrinated they were to hate Americans, despite being completely cut off from the world. At all ages, they never considered that maybe the messages they get about "America bothering them all the time" and things like that were propaganda.

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by Anonymousreply 12September 28, 2017 5:05 AM

I watched that documentary, R12. I had read a lot about North Korea, first hand accounts of the life there, told by those lucky few who managed to defect but it was till so surreal and I kept thinking: "Stockholm syndrome." I mean parroting the official propaganda is literally the matter of choosing between life and death. The level of paranoia in that society is something we can hardly comprehend: you are scared of speaking your mind even in front of your closest family since you don't know who will report you to the secret police.

by Anonymousreply 13September 28, 2017 5:11 AM

If he had tried to commit suicide and failed, it would be a horrible blow to super-religious parents who think you burn eternally for that act. They may not even be able to process the truth. I can't think of any reason Sammarco would lie. And I think Trump, who says Otto was tortured horribly, lies about everything.

by Anonymousreply 14September 28, 2017 5:17 AM

I think they tortured and made him a vegetable right away. His visible injuries healed.

by Anonymousreply 15September 28, 2017 5:23 AM

In both interviews the parents seem to believe that coma is synonymous with being asleep.

They're saying that his arms and legs were totally deformed and in a "weird position" as if that's a result of torture, when what they're describing is decorticate posturing common in people with severe brain damage.

There's no way that that wasn't explained that to them.

by Anonymousreply 16September 28, 2017 5:37 AM

His parents are in as much lock-step with the Drumpf / deplorable narrative as the generations of brainwashed North Koreans are with Kim Jong Un -- whatever dear leader says goes.

These parents could have asked for more, but they dare not piss off their toddler-in-charge. Sad!

by Anonymousreply 17September 28, 2017 5:42 AM

This whole thing was a set up toward war with NK. Who knows where he really was for months prior to,his "return." Some CIA tank, where they did a number on him.

by Anonymousreply 18September 28, 2017 6:33 AM

The SJW media might have paid this doc to say this In order to shame the Warmbiers for being Trump supporters and to make them look like liars.

They paid big bucks to people last year who were willing to give interviews saying that they saw or hooked up with the Pulse terrorist on gay dating apps. They are not above lying or promoting misinformation to the masses for political points.

by Anonymousreply 19September 28, 2017 6:34 AM

Yeah, whatever, r19. Sure.

Now for the rest of us. First off, I what a great name: Lakshmi Sammarco! Indian and Italian -- that's right up there with "Napoleon Solo" in my book.

Second, I have been convinced from the very start that Warmbier tried to commit suicide (probably by hanging) shortly after getting a taste of life in an NK prison, and that although he lived, he was severely brain-damaged. That's consistent with all the established facts, and why would the North Koreans bother torturing him? It's not like he was a spy from whom they could have extracted any useful information.

by Anonymousreply 20September 28, 2017 7:39 AM

Isn't it funny how the trolls like R19 come out to defend a storyline that never made sense in the first place?

Why did the parents refuse an autopsy? I don't even care that they're grieving at this point, when they have no shame exploiting their son's death for political purposes. And lying to make Trump look better is not helping them score sympathy points with me either.

Of course, an autopsy could have revealed that their son tried to kill himself and that wouldn't have fit the narrative the parents were going for.

by Anonymousreply 21September 28, 2017 10:11 AM

Didn't the parents "admit" that they're Jewish after Otto's death ?

Maybe that's why they refused an autopsy, Jews usually want to be in the ground asafp after death.

by Anonymousreply 22September 28, 2017 10:32 AM

It was obvious from the beginning that he had meningitis. All the symptoms, along with the North Koreans suddenly developing a haste to return him to sender (his handler in Langley).

by Anonymousreply 23September 28, 2017 10:44 AM

He was sent home as a warning to somebody.

by Anonymousreply 24September 28, 2017 10:48 AM

[quote]I think they tortured and made him a vegetable right away. His visible injuries healed.

Nope, if he'd been in a vegetative state for an extended period of time, his muscles would have atrophied from disuse.

Or, to put it in gay terms, he needed M'Lynn to help him do his Jane Fonda.

by Anonymousreply 25September 28, 2017 10:48 AM

R24 That sounds a bit like a movie plot. It's not like NK sent back a horse head to the US.

We don't know what happened to him, but at least they returned him to his parents, so that he could die at home surrounded by family.

by Anonymousreply 26September 28, 2017 10:58 AM

Has anyone confirmed the parents' report of bizarre howling noises coming from OW? Flight crew members? Paramedics? Seems to me those parents would want vengeance and are trying to make NK pay, but the drama they're adding to the whole sad story almost has the opposite effect.

by Anonymousreply 27September 28, 2017 11:10 AM

The shame of autoerotic self-asphixiation!

by Anonymousreply 28September 28, 2017 11:33 AM

Matt Smith should play him in a movie.

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by Anonymousreply 29September 28, 2017 11:42 AM

"It was obvious from the beginning that he had meningitis."

And you made that diagnosis based on pics and vids posted online and on TV? You're a smart one, aren't you?

by Anonymousreply 30September 28, 2017 11:45 AM

I saw his parents being interviewed on TV today and they are very, very, very angry people...

They certainly have reason to be, but they are a very scary pair.

by Anonymousreply 31September 28, 2017 11:51 AM

Has anyone followed the money?

by Anonymousreply 32September 28, 2017 12:13 PM

r19, You're brain-dead, too.

by Anonymousreply 33September 28, 2017 12:13 PM

Meningitis? Why that of all things?

by Anonymousreply 34September 29, 2017 5:28 AM
by Anonymousreply 35September 29, 2017 10:25 PM

Because the high fever it causes can kill your brain and turn you into a vegetable.

by Anonymousreply 36September 29, 2017 10:33 PM

It's one of the only things that can kill your central nervous system without leaving a mark. I'm not sure if the strain of waterboarding leaves visible marks, but looking at his lungs would tell you instantly.

by Anonymousreply 37September 29, 2017 11:06 PM

Why was he in NK to begin with? Can't find the answer to that in anything I read. I guess the press assumes I already know. But I don't.

by Anonymousreply 38September 29, 2017 11:51 PM

Because it's dangerous and therefore cool. Google war tourism in the Middle East or poverty tourism in Latin America.

by Anonymousreply 39September 30, 2017 12:05 AM

we had a "psychic" thread on Otto, and the psychic said s/he "saw" Otto being tortured by drowning his head in water. A soldier kept him under water too long and he almost died. They revived but he he had brain damages. Seems like that's what actually happened.

by Anonymousreply 40September 30, 2017 12:15 AM

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

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by Anonymousreply 41September 30, 2017 12:48 AM

I said it in the other thread and I'll say it again here, the warmbiers are a freeper/grifter family. I also have to lol at R19, who probably believes that globalist (read Jews) are trying lead America into endless wars. Yet blindly accept what the Jewish warmbier family tells them.

by Anonymousreply 42September 30, 2017 1:05 AM

bump

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by Anonymousreply 43February 7, 2018 4:06 AM

I feel sorry for the spectators who will be seated near Pence & Warmbier. Are these two just going to silently scowl during every event? Maybe Pence is planning some dramatic exits akin to his staged NFL huff.

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by Anonymousreply 44February 7, 2018 4:30 AM

This poor kid. The Republicans just keep showing how vile they are, and we sit back and watch.

by Anonymousreply 45February 7, 2018 4:39 AM

Too disgusting.

by Anonymousreply 46February 7, 2018 6:48 AM

This poor guy was just as crazy as his parents. Teeth can't be "rearranged" but you know the family truly believes it, and if you questioned them, they would tell you that his teeth were literally taken out and put back in, in the wrong order.

Now the GOP is using the father to taunt North Korea.

by Anonymousreply 47February 7, 2018 7:11 AM

Maybe he did die from botulism after all. There doesn't seem to be much evidence to the contrary. As someone stated above about buying into propaganda, couldn't it be argued we, as Americans, are guilty of the same thing? Maybe North Korea was telling the truth about how he died. Don't we currently have a President who can't tell fact from fiction?

by Anonymousreply 48February 7, 2018 7:33 AM

Maybe it was botulism, maybe it was a botched suicide attempt.

Both variants are far more plausible than deliberate North Korean torture of a guy who was obviously so cluless he couldn't possibly have had any information useful to them.

by Anonymousreply 49February 7, 2018 7:35 AM

Who's that gorgeous hunk standing next to Pence and his beard in R44? Is that his son? He looks simply scrumptious.

by Anonymousreply 50February 7, 2018 7:46 AM

Maybe he left his retainer at home.

by Anonymousreply 51February 7, 2018 11:25 AM

Did the parents ever thank Democrat Bill Richardson for trying to safely negotiate Otto's release, or did they just never get around to doing so because that doesn't fit their whole "Dems did nothing for our son!" narrative?

by Anonymousreply 52February 8, 2018 5:38 AM

R50, I see no hunk. Just a lot of goys.

by Anonymousreply 53February 8, 2018 10:24 PM
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