Otto Warmbier blind, deaf and howling

There are 3 more Americans who are currently imprisoned in North Korea. Otto's parents would be wonderful spokespeople to advocate for their release.

I am sure they are not doing well especially with Trump's current rhetoric.

He was an idiot to go to North Korea to begin with. Why not go hang out in Syria and see if you can find some Isis soldiers and steal their propaganda? Stupid.

Well, he's not suffering any longer.

And like the "model" who was scalped, he gambled and lost.

[quote]He was an idiot

Tortured and ultimately murdered for being an idiot and having poor judgement.

Yes, R2, he was dumb but he was also a spoiled American kid. Kids do dumb shit.

We just gotta save this proud and gentle people from a brutal......

His mom thinks he was sent home because he was about to die, but I think we can safely assume he was sent home as a message to Trump. "This is what we'll do to your hostages, dotard" kind of a thing.

that's so creepy, R7

How many Americans are there right now? Do we know?

Americans need to figure out that visiting a country like North Korea is a dangerous thing to do. Who paid for his trip? His parents? Were they the ones who thought it was a good idea to let an entitled 22 year old boy go to North Korea for an adventure? What poor judgement. It amazes me that people go to those countries for whatever reason, get arrested for something idiotic, then expect the US to ride to their rescue. If you go to a place like that for any reason, you should be on your own. I don't see that it's the taxpayers responsibility to bail people out of their own stupidity.

Also, his parents refused an autopsy. Why? They didn't want to hear what killed the baby boy then sent over there for a good time?

This whole thing is maddening. If you're a parent, show some judgement regarding your kid's travel and 'play time.' Who the hell thinks that a trip to North Korea is the same thing as a day at the beach? Christ. The stupidity is amazing.

I think he was there on some mission to another Asian country and for some odd reason they stopped in NK. I do find it odd that they refused an autopsy.

He was also a homosexualist. I wonder if he at least got to sample some Korean cock in prison before his demise.

What drives tourists to North Korea in the first place? Do they have special tourist attractions that make people forget about the crazy dictator who runs the country like a prison? Or do they just want to experience a country run like a prison by a dictator?

I'm not trying to disrespect his parents. They're grieving and I wish them the best. But it pisses me off that they're not worried about those other 3 prisoners who are still suffering in North Korea. They don't even mention them or worry that talking to the press could affect them negatively.

We go through this every time there's a thread.

He went to NK on a tour advertised as taking Americans to difficult-to-travel places. He was doing it to be edgy.

Rape Trauma Syndrome

there is a psychic that posted what happened to him. according to here he didn't do anything wrong. he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

scroll down a little to see story

A psychic? Really?

r17 those that have psychic ability know it exists. others believe or don't believe.

As much as I hate Trump to my very core, and as much as I'm afraid of a war with North Korea, stories like this make me hope we flatten the fucking place. Fucking evil pieces of shit. I hope whoever did this to him has the skin flayed from the bodies.

[quote]Otto's parents would be wonderful spokespeople to advocate for their release.

indeed

[quote]I have an image of a black car in the middle of a junkyard with exposed silver metal near an open roof. The car looks like it belonged to an entertainer or politician and has an old-fashioned style that initially looked like the 1970s. Then upon second glance, the car looks more like it’s from the 1940s. There is something about this vehicle that provides evidence surrounding a mounting political crime involving the US mafia, the Russian mob, and a few familiar faces from public office. This car is likely related to a missing link, and possibly even a murder, that occurred as a result of collusion in the 2016 US elections.

I don't believe in psychics but this is interesting. As far as her explanations for Otto, I think she's taking a good guess about the waterboarding. It does sound plausible but the story of the stolen poster pretty much sounds like his friend's report saying Otto never tried to steal anything, just got lost.

Everyone wants to blame president Obama for this entitled young man's decision to go to NK. I don't get it. When you're over privileged and entitled! You fill as through you can do whatever the he'll you want. But you can't. Especially not outside of western countries. Hopefully what happened to otto is a huge wake up call to other over privileged and entitled frat boys, that you don't own the fucking world, like so many seem to believe they do. There's consequences out side of western countries. You won't be coddled by foreign governments because of you're extreme entitled mindset. Welcome to the real world buddy. I've also yet to here anyone in the media ask his parents why would he go to NK? I bet they won't go there.

[quote]Everyone wants to blame president Obama for this entitled young man's decision to go to NK

who is blaming obama?

There was no autopsy because one would have revealed that the torture Otto suffered began after Trump began taunting lil' Kim, exonerating Obama and his administration's efforts to secure Otto's release, and was done to send Trump a message after the election. The parents, being good deplorables, didn't want their son's horrific death used against their dear leader.

No autopsy. No advocacy for other Americans detained in NK. No condemnation of Trump's juvenile and self-serving taunts. Nothing that would actually put forward American interests. If there was ever a case for parents deserving what they got, this is it. I hope they suffer for the rest of their days, having protected their dear leader and all deplorables. Sadly, we suffer along with Otto and the remainder of the majority who voted against this charlatan.

I don't blame Obama, and if the parents are, they're wrong to do so. But I give them a pass. The worst thing in the world has happened to them. And there's no comfort. There's no "he didn't feel any pain, to was an easy death" Only long nights, and horror.

And Trump is a VILE pig for trying to politicize this family's suffering, and for not working to get the other still in captivity released.

I remember some conservatives and deplorables blaming Obama for not negotiating for this kid's release. Of course, they ignore that Orange Turd's not doing much for the others being detained.

[quote] And Trump is a VILE pig for trying to politicize this family's suffering,

Vile pigs! Vile pigs!

In the daily fail's deplorable comment section. Everything is Obamas fault, to those assholes. Mind you now. This is the group always going on about taking personal responsibility. So much for that.

I have to "hide" this thread. Too sad too think about.

God help us all.

Once again no one told Otto to go to NK in the first place. Why on earth would any sane person go to that Hell hole? I sure as Hell wouldn't.

R28 Everything is Obama's fault. And I remember heated exchanges on previous Warmbier threads about exactly that.

Was it revealed earlier that the family is Jewish, or did I make that up? If so, that could be the reason for no autopsy.

R31 I remember those heated debates in previous threads on Otto. I can only assume that will happen on this thread too. This is a very political story. Thanks to Fox News, TRUMP, and the deplorables.

I imagine they didn't want an autopsy done because they couldn't bear to learn much more about the trauma their son went through, the damage and the estimates the coroner/pathologist would provide about the duration, severity, and extent of the beatings and torture. It's bad enough to see your child barely recognizable with mangled teeth, unresponsive to external stimuli yet howling at some internal pain, but to know precisely how he got there would be too much for me to bear. I'm not a parent, but I just don't think I could take it.

The account of that psychic matches some of the predictions we have done here. The video of him stealing the poster was stages as was his press conference.

Their camps are brutal, but it's actually all coming to end in 2018.

[quote]I don't believe in psychics but this is interesting.

It really isn't, honey.

I'm 99% sure the "psychics" and their fans who descend on DL do so just to derail threads.

Who cares? He was trespassing. North Korea is a sovereign country and they have every right to protect their country from spies.

r35 others have said the same thing. he's finished in 2018.

maybe one of the psychics here could hone in on one of you non believers and tell you something about yourself that would scare the crap out of you. No one cares if you believe or not. No one is criticizing you for not believing so don't understand your need to criticize those that do believe.

That psychic has a few wrong predictions though, her predictions about certain events have turned out to be the opposite. Which is very telling... I am not sure I would put that much weight on her visions.

[quote]others have said the same thing. he's finished in 2018.

you don't have to look further than DL, DL predicted his demise around this time 6-7 years ago.

The changing of both the US and it's territories/Canada&Mexico back in 2011. Check the Psychic threads on 2012 and before, one theme that always came up was the transition of the US 2014-2024. Only that back then we thought those landmark events would be less challenging. But the outcome will be the same.

R39 seriously, if no one cares or is criticizing for non-belief then why would you want some psychic to "hone in" and scare the crap out of them? Sounds like those good "christians" who "don't judge" but then tell atheists they are going to hell.

An argument against YOLO.

Who’s afraid of the big bad Wolf, the big bad Wolf, the big bad Wolf, who’s afraid of the big bad Wolf, tra la la la la la

Came the day when fate did frown, and a wolf blew into town, with a gruff huff puff, he puffed just enough, and the Hay house blew right down!

Hear that sound little piggy? It’s the wolf coming for you.

r41 because I get tired of their remarks, not just here but everywhere.

r40 psychics are never 100% right because they are humans and there has never been and never will be a person that is 100% right about anything. one takes a psychic with a grain of salt. they could be right, could be wrong but in the meantime it is nice to read that things will work out and hope that they are right. it feels better to read that Trump and Kim will be gone than it is to wait here day after day and see no progress..

R44, there are always going to be people who think it's a bunch of bullshit or just disinterest. Grow a thicker skin. Try being an apathetic agnostic and living in the Bible belt. That will toughen your skin

R44 this has been my experience, and I feel this is universal for intuitive, the more emotionally invested you are on a topic, the less likely you will be able to come up with a solid prediction. It is the sole reason many psychics always have trouble predicting for themselves.

With that said, some of her predictions have such a level of detail that you must question her ability when those predictions are wrong. Especially when you confront them with the facts that have come out since the election. This is not a person saying "I feel that there was unfair play in the primaries against Sanders." Her predictions about the primary not only come out wrong, they came out the opposite. Sanders was behind the Clinton campaign hack in 2015, and his campaign [bold]indeed[/bold] received help from the Ruskies. The DNC had reasons to mistrust him.

You can be wrong if your predictions are stated in a general matter, but you must 1) state your visions are not clear 2) its a general feeling but you have no clear picture, and 3) you don't state your predictions as set in stone.

[quote]...maybe one of the psychics here could hone in on one of you non believers....

Oh, dear.

You know why no one is talking about the other three hostages? Because they aren’t white. They are all three Asian. And they were reporters not tourists so at least they were doing some good.

Why didn't the family ever thank Bill Richardson for at least trying to negotiate Otto's release?

I feel sorry for Otto. He was so naïve and made incredibly stupid decisions. Probably because he believed his parents when they told him he was special and gifted and could do anything he wants.

I don't feel sorry for some entitled Frat boy type who spends a lot of money to do stupid shit, or the enabler parents.

What was the reason again why the parents refuse autopsy? Is it about religion? Else we might a conclusive cause of death maybe?

R48 nailed it.

I can't believe the heartless person or people on this thread basically say he got what he deserved. You're worse than any deplorable, or maybe that's what you really are.

It's obvious whatever they did to him is straight from hell. Probably beyond our imaginations.

I'm not even sure he died on his own. He was probably put out of pure his unrecoverable misery. That's my guess.

R54 are you suggesting his parents had him put down?

Psychics? NK is serious business. The psychics and their followers should stay home and let the adults do the best they can.

I don't think we need to come up with nefarious reasons for the family not wanting an autopsy. They knew there son had died as a result of horrific circumstances. The last thing they wanted was to see the autopsy showing up on WikiLeaks.

There are pieces to this story that just don't make sense. There is the obvious one, why did a 21 year old go to NK in the first place. Four days in a country the US State Department advises not to travel to.

How is possible that Warmbier is pulled out of line at the airport by NK security and the travel guide just accepts Warmbier's phone call that he is to sick to travel? For whatever reason it looks like neither the travel agency or the US government took immediate action.

This isn't a big deal.. I'll admit it has been a long time since I was 21. But Warmbier's roommate on the trip talks of the fun they had which included drinking alcohol. I have very clear memories of being in circumstances where I knew drinking might be a mistake. But again the people on the trip and the travel agency didn't seem to have a problem with this.

Finally Trump can tweet his heart out about the Warmbiers and NK but why hasn't his State Department put them back on the terrorist nation list?

The pieces don't fit together and I don't think we will ever know what the hell is going on. But of course the Trump family's deals with China have nothing to do with any of this...

And good luck saving the Asian Americans now with Trump.

How'd he get there in the first place?

Was it just like a normal tourist group type thing if so why? Seems like there would be much better places for sight seeing.

R55, yes. There might not have been a choice.

r47 my bad. when I get upset......

Sending him home was definitely a message to Chump for opening his big orange anus shaped mouth.

R58, please read the thread and/or Google. It's been explained. A kid on a trip in a dangerous courtyard accused of stealing a poster or something.

That's the basic story, anyhow.

Agree, r54.

Am I correct that the current Asian prisoners are Asian American?

The NKs probably implanted something in him or pinched nerves surgically or something to ensure he'd be in constant agonizing pain for however long he lived after he was released.

r64 yes and I believe all of them were born in the US

I don't know what "howling" means, but since he was deaf and blind he probably had no idea where he was or where he was being taken. He might not have been able to recognize anyone after he returned home, and that's assuming he wasn't a vegetable. Who knows if that part is true.

Blindness can be caused by a lack of oxygen to the brain. Maybe he hung himself in his cell and was cut down after profound brain damage happened. I wonder if deafness was a result of punctured eardrums. Howling could be a severely brain damaged, deaf person that's unconsciously making noises he doesn't know he's making.

I do think the parents had him put down, or maybe the government. We were first told that he was a vegetable. From the description, he may not have been. Just brain damaged but possibly somewhat aware of his surroundings. If the parents don't understand the difference they're morons, which they seem to be.

All the previous reports point to him being removed from life support and dying a natural death from that, but someone who is "howling" is breathing on their own. And doesn't have any tubes in their throat. That's not life support. So somebody is not telling the truth.

My guess is that his continued existence was an embarrassment for the government, and some doctor was ordered to quietly put him out of his misery. No doctor would remove a feeding tube and let a conscious person starve to death, which is probably what happened. They only do it if you're completely brain dead. And a howling person has some mental ability, they're not flatlining.

Do the parents realize they're essentially saying the official story isn't true?

Second option is that something was put in his IV or feeding tube, like an overdose of insulin, which causes heart failure and isn't ordinarily detected on an autopsy as a foreign substance. In this case, doctors would be looking for anything unusual at all, so that might not work.

Notice the parents refused an autopsy? They know the truth. Maybe they were threatened to STFU.

More than likely they used waterboarding which starved his brain of oxygen long enough to cause severe brain damage thus causing the blindness, deafness and seizures. When I was a kid a couple next door had a baby that had a fever so bad that it caused serious brain damage. I used to go sit with the kid when the mom needed someone to watch him. He was a vegetable who would sometimes make animal noises and twitch but there was nothing there. No recognition or cognizance of any kind so I guess Otto could have succumbed to a really bad, untreated fever too.

Anyway, that kid was a sad case. I felt so sorry for the family. They would treat him like a regular kid and buy him presents and she'd walk him in a stroller but he was a just a piece of flesh.

R67 so are we to believe that in the US doctors can just kill patients upon request? No court hearing no peer review?

R70, I mean if someone in the Trump administration made it happen. No, people do not just get the power turned off to their life support, it takes examinations from three separate neurologists stating that there is no brain activity to turn the lights out. Then all the next of kin have to sign off, in this case probably both parents. Then they are discharged from hospital and sent to hospice.

You can send an incurable patient who is expected to die within six months to hospice, and if they are in a irreversible coma the feeding tube can be removed, but only if they're inevitably dying anyway. You can't do it if you're just sick of having them rack up a bill. They drug them up and they feel nothing.

[quote]maybe one of the psychics here could hone in on one of you non believers and tell you something about yourself that would scare the crap out of you.

Considering how inaccurate she's been in her blog posts this year, I doubt that anything she could say would "scare the crap out of me." Really, if you're going to go with a psychic, couldn't you have picked one with a decent track record?

[quote]That psychic has a few wrong predictions though

More than a few.

Back on topic, it's easy to scold someone and say that they shouldn't have been doing what they were doing but that's just one step away from "he deserved what he got." And nobody deserves that. The blame for that is on North Korea, not him.

The thing is that we never will know the full story. You can't trust the official accounts from North Korea and it doesn't look like anyone else has the details. Trusting a psychic on this is just ludicrous. All I can say is that I hope this causes a few other individuals to rethink their plans to visit North Korea, particularly in today's environment.

And yes, the Trump administration should be actively working to bring home the other prisoners.

R71 here. Correction: if there is no permanent feeding tube inserted it is much easier to do this legally. Having a feeding tube removed after it's in is a whole different kettle of fish, much harder and probably a court order.

If life support is on, the patient is incurable and it's been more than three weeks, the hospital may try to wean the person from life support, which is often successful. After three weeks people stabilize. Hospitals don't like to leave tubes in people's throats more than three weeks due to abrasion and discomfort, they prefer to change to a stomach feeding tube. The guardians can decline this.

If Warmbier had a nose tube, that's not permanent, it's temporary. The hospital probably told the parents it was time for a stomach tube and they said no. Then they signed to pull everything out and he died of starvation and dehydration in an artificial coma. He would have felt nothing.

Why do I think this could be sketchy? He died fast. If he was breathing on his own that's different than a person on a machine that breathes for them. They can live longer. If he was on machines that have to be turned off that could require a court order, but first many exams and tests that take weeks. A person breathing on their own, young, can live like that for years. "Heart failure" can be a euphemism for starvation by feeding tube being removed. The parents either chose to pull the plug knowing his true state, or somebody went in there and put something in his IV to make his heart stop that was unauthorized.

And the parents refused an autopsy while hordes of politicians and doctors wanted to know what the hell they did to him. That may not be innocent. Autopsy results can be kept private by the family. So doing an autopsy doesn't mean they would lose their privacy.

R54 I agree that victim blaming is especially heinous in this case. That said, I've always thought people victim blamed as a way of feeling safe. They want a way to assure whatever horrific thing that happened will never happen to them or their family members, and blaming the victim provides them this sense of assurance. If it is, in some way, the victims fault, then we just need to avoid whatever foibles the victim committed and their fate will not become our fate.

New Mexico Democrat Bill Richardson actively tried negotiating for Otto's release from North Korea.

Funny how you don't hear the deplorables give him any credit for his efforts, or hear any of them thanking him.

Bill Richardson, btw, would be an excellent, diplomatic president.. unlike the piece of shit currently sitting in office.

Didn't Bill Richardson do some hostage negotiations in the past? I think it maybe even included other NK cases.

Damn, he's lost weight!

r72 I follow a number of psychics. I find that when a lot of them are predicting the same thing it usually happens. She was the only one that came out with what happened to Otto

[R75] Having lived under Bill Richardson as Governor of New Mexico, he would not make a good President. He is diplomatic and a good negotiator. He may make a fine Ambassador but I would say no to the Oval Office.

I think there is a fine line between blaming the victim and holding people accountable for their actions. As a society, we are at the point where the 'victim' has no responsibility in whatever happens to them. In general, while the onus is on the perpetrator, of course, the victim also has to look at their part in what happens. If people behave in a reckless manner and something happens to them, it may be the consequences of their behavior. When people put themselves in a dangerous situation and something happens to them, they are the ones who have placed themselves in that situation.

In this case, Otto chose to go to North Korea. He was with a Chinese tour group, I know. The State Department recommends that no American travel to North Korea and that has been their recommendation for a long time. There have been incidents of American being arrested on bogus charges and being tortured. He had access to this information as did his parents. They all decided that Otto should go anyway. He went and he did something stupid. In a country like NK, almost anything can become a stupid idea and the consequences extreme. He was arrested and he was tortured to a point that resulted in his death. Is this entirely Otto's fault? Entirely his family's fault? Of course not. The blame lies with North Korea. However, Otto and his parents showed poor judgement. They all agreed that this would be a great adventure for that kid so he went. He and his parents put him in harm's way. He paid the ultimate price for that and his parents will pay the ultimate price for their decision for the rest of their lives. It's tragic and it horrifying. It was totally preventable.

The medical examiner today contradicted a number of things the parents said.

According to the story at R80, that ass Trump said Otto was "tortured beyond belief," even though there was no evidence it happened. Imagine how that went over in NK. Trump is a President, not a random celebrity. He still doesn't get that what he says matters.

Sounds like the coroner knows there should have been an autopsy and probably examined the body as much as he could without opening it up. So again, why was there no autopsy? If they wanted to claim he was tortured then prove it.

You can't just make up unsubstantiated claims about actions of a hostile nation when we're already in the brink of war with them. That's irresponsible.

The coroner says Otto had a small, not large, scar on his foot. But no one knows where it came from. He says his teeth were not re-arranged. So what's going on here?

And, SHE, the medical examiner was a woman, r81, said that there was evidence that Warmbier had a breathing tube while in NK. Something is very off about this.

As R56 mentioned, a lot doesn’t add up. I wanted to bring up that he and his tour mates were apparently wasted drunk. Who gets drunk in North Korea? Was this part of a stop on the tour or were they on their own? It’s all so bizarre and now the autopsy.

Apparently, getting wasted drunk was a feature of this particular tour, R83. It was practically a cultural demand, despite not having protection for "tipsy" tourists.

why did they carry him off the plane like a piece of luggage instead of providing a stretcher?

As stupid as he was, I can't help feeling terrible for him.

I believe his parents didn't know he went NK and/or he didn't consult them about it. They knew he had been staying in China for a few months with some group and doing some traveling there. The NK trip was just a week-long thing, or was supposed to be only week...

Bottom line: Warmbier most probably hanged himself soon after his incarceration in NK in a suicide attempt. He was found and cut down, but had massive brain damage. The North Koreans may have intubated him (feeding tube, but breathing on his own?) in an attempt to keep him alive as an asset for negotiations with the US govt, but eventually for whatever reasons they decided to stop and send him home.

There would have been no reason to torture him, as he was neither a spy with useful information, nor did they still need him to make a self-incriminating statement, since he'd already done that.

That's what the available evidence says.

R88 who needs evidence when you have feelings and psychics?

This is the frauiest thread in a long time around here.

I'm glad you linked to that article R80, and I agree with R88 the whole thing sounds like a suicide and the fact that his parents denied an autopsy is very telling (to me at least). His parents(especially the father) give me very strong freeper "vibes" for all the psychics in this thread.

I've also read that they will even kidnap Americans if they are close to their border....or maybe this was Iran...can't remember.

you can go blind and deaf from trying to hang yourself?

People don't know shit about this kid or his family, yet he's being described as "entitled", "privileged", etc. Why? Because he had money to travel? Because his parents are affluent? We don't even know if the poster story is true. Some grainy footage that purports to be him?

He was a nice, smart kid who made an error in judgment. He probably thought he was safe in a tourist group. You assholes who think he deserved what he got are seriously sick in the head.. And yes. he was Jewish, so maybe that's why the parents didn't want an autopsy.

R92, you can go blind and deaf from being deprived of oxygen for a long time and then revived after you've already had serious brain damage. People like that should be let go. They usually live when it's happened in an environment like a hospital or somebody that knows CPR is the one that finds them.

In this case, a likely scenario is hanging himself in a cell, being found after minutes go by and brain damage has set in, then a guard who knew CPR cut him down and resuscitated him, then they rushed him to a hospital and brought him back from actually flatlining while hanging. Only in a case with help available within a very few minutes would a person survive, even as brain damaged as this.

I'm not saying that what happened exactly, but it's very possible. My mom flatlined in the hospital, choking on food unattended. She was left alone less than twenty minutes and when she was found she was dead. They revived her, but she was brain dead. She eventually died in a coma, from the feeding tube being disconnected. She could breathe on her own. She was not able to make sounds like Otto. He seems to have had more brain activity than she had. They don't just pull the plug on people with even minimal brain activity. And yet it seems that's what he really died from to me.

The parents would have to sign off in it, both of them. The first step if they did was removing him from the hospital and putting him in a hospice. If they did that, they likely signed off. Otherwise, it would be a long term nursing home.

Another thing that occurs to me from my mother's experience is that people like this are revived when it's an issue of liability. With my mom, she died of hospital negligence. They were afraid of a lawsuit and wanted to keep her alive at all costs.

I can believe that NK also needed to keep Otto alive at all costs, not just as a hostage but because they didn't want him to die in their custody. Bad propaganda. The fact that he had no bedsores tells me they went all out. You have to turn a patient like that at least once an hour, probably more. Maybe as often as every fifteen minutes. He had attendants around the clock. Probably the best care in the country.

"those that have psychic ability know it exists. others believe or don't believe."

I always wonder if these "kids" who are captured in Iran or NK are really CIA. Especially the ones who strayed across the border while "hiking".

[quote] People don't know shit about this kid or family]

[quote] He was a nice, smart kid

Uh...

He died of Darwinism, R98.

The parents’ interviews are very enlightening......just not in the way they planned.

Didn't NK just announce something in regard to this?

I saw a headline on my phone but didn't get a chance to read the article.

R100, how? I don't want to watch that crap, but you already did.

I don't think he actually stole anything, I read from a guy that he was traveling with that they picked Otto out of a lineup going on the bus. Sounds like they just wanted to make an example of an American.

In the video at r100, his eyes were "darting around in the.....they're as big as saucers."

In the video at r101, "he was staring blankly into space."

So which one is it?

The medical examiner has since addressed some of the discrepancies in the parents' interviews...

“How do you get a scar that covers the entire top of your foot?” Cindy Warmbier asked. “(The coroner) said it had to be an open wound for months and months and months.”

The coroner’s report did not include this last detail. It describes a number of smaller scars, but does not contain details as to what caused them or how long they had been there.

The report also offers information that seemingly conflicts with his parents’ account.

“His bottom teeth look like they had taken a pair of pliers and rearranged them,” Fred Warmbier said. However, the coroner’s report says, “the teeth are natural and in good repair.”

Hamilton County Coroner Dr. Lakshmi Kode Sammarco addressed the discrepancy, speaking at a news conference Wednesday. She said her team, which included a forensic dentist, evaluated Warmbier’s body as well as various scans of his body.

“I felt very comfortable that there wasn’t any evidence of trauma” to the teeth or jawbone, Sammarco said. “We were surprised at (the parents’) statement.”

Fred Warmbier told CNN on Wednesday the family will not be commenting further.

So who is lying, the parents or the medical examiner?

Also, re: the interrupted blood flow...

[quote]“All we can do is theorize, and we hate to theorize without science backing us up,” Dr. Lakshmi Sammarco, the county coroner, said in an interview Thursday.

[quote]The whole-body CT scan did not find injuries associated with hanging, for example, but Dr. Schwamm [an outside party who reviewed the autopsy report for the NYT] said the evidence might not be visible if a bedsheet were used and the spine were not dislocated.

Yeah, he was a young kid who made some stupid decisions, chiefly going to North Korea. We were all young once and I know I made a lot of idiotic choices, most investors living drinking way too much, and I'm probably lucky to be alive. But at 22 one is an adult, so people like R9 need to stop blaming the parents.

most investors living drinking = most involving drinking

I said this before here but I firmly believe he was involved in or trying to get involved in people-smuggling activities in North China. Churches run networks that assist North Koreans who want to emigrate to China or Southeast Asia. There's an underground railroad running throughout the region.

Or maybe the North Koreans mistakenly assumed that he was. For that reason, he was detained and while in detention attempted suicide. North Korea doesn't really have a history of torturing detainees simply because they are American, Japanese, South Korean.

That's just an educated guess based on knowledge of the region and power politics therein. It is impossible to say anything but this: it is incredibly naive to assume that what the parents and government are telling us is the full story or accurate in any way.

Link to an article about it.

And here is a relevant passage:

[quote] These journeys are typically managed by either rogue people smugglers, who charge several thousand dollars, or secretive Christian networks operating out of Seoul. This route is known as the “underground railroad” among Christian smugglers.

[quote] The clandestine leader of one of these Christian networks previously told PRI that “when [the defectors] first get out of North Korea, they look really shabby and skinny. We usually make them stay at a church member’s house [in China] for a month, just to eat.”

I don't really have an ax to grind about this; I am curious about other informed DLers opinions.

It seems plausible that this kid connected with Christian groups in China and then thought that he could "make a difference." That tour he was on seems like it was sloppy and the North Koreans were probably monitoring it very closely for exactly this kind of thing.

That's just a wild ass guess. I don't really know.

I think I don't really like the parents. They seem to be 100% sure of the information they have been told yet an autopsy would probably give them some facts. I don't like how they say they didn't blame Obama not mentioning Rump because blaming him wasn't even an option.

What kind of person mentions Mike Tyson in his high school graduation speech. Even if he is innocent of rape he has a fucking face tattoo!!!!

Still more questions than answers.

Nothing we haven't done in Guantanamo.

My family used to know his parents. Good people. We never saw them again after this story broke.

How many of their men, women, and children were left blind, deaf, and howling after one of our bombing raids? We bombed North Korea to bits, you know.

And we did it all for nothing. Couldn't beat the North Koreans, couldn't contain China.

Don't get me wrong I feel awful for the guy and his family, but I also can't help but cringe at the vids of him crying and pleading in court.

ISIS hostages showed more dignity right before getting their heads sawed off.

He was a pathetic mess, and probably attempted suicide while in the NK prison (hanging, maybe). They found him too late to prevent massive brain damage, but apparently kept him well enough cared for afterwards that he had no bed sores after a year or so of coma.

His death was the last thing they would have wanted, because they wanted to use him as a bargaining chip, like they do all western prisoners. They had no reason whatsoever to torture him, since they knew he had no useful information.

There's way too much common sense on display here, am I in the right forum?

Those who are travelling to Iran, N Korea, Syria, Somalia, Yemen, etc. should be shot at the airport before their departure so that to save the country from wasting time, money and manpower to get them back safe and all right.

"ORGY WITH OTTO". i have a Fantasy of Otto becuming a "CUM DUMP" in his Prison cell...being Taken over and over and over again by "Hot, Sexy North Korean Soldiers" fucking his American ass until he screams" Fuck me harder". North Korean Gloryholes Part #1. I know I'm sick.

Why the fuck are you people resurrecting this old thread? I gave his parents a goddam autographed picture of me. I thought everything was cool now.

R.I.P. North Korea's government are sick fucks.

You can call me frau cunt or Oh Mary all you want but I don't know how you can joke about that poor kid. He was so fucking scared when he was sentenced and then subsequently tortured and slowly killed, but hey fucking Lol!

I agree R126 . The people here can be awful.

You go to NK which was incredibly stupid anyway, then violate their laws and want special treatment from our country to save you? I have no sympathy at all. Keep your entitled ass home.

One less Republican.

Ah, clearly a person of the party of "personal responsibility" talking at r128.

imagine, if we had North Korea on our boarder? we have Mexico, a vacation destination for us. Republicans are disgusting pieces of shit too, for what they did to children. Republicans are taking us to Nazi Germany and North Korea. Progressive Democrats want Americans to be more like Denmark, with universal health care, pensions, free university. better labor laws, including paid extended vacation and free children care, etc.

Let's unite and become a better nation.

For god's sake, everyone but Trump and his acolytes agree that the guy was not tortured.

The U.S. doctor who flew in and retrieved him examined him on-site at the hospital, analyzed his CT scans, and consulted with his doctors, who answered his questions in a way that made sense.

The medical examiner in the U.S. who examined the body after he died agreed. The only notable thing was a scar on his foot that no one can explain, but there was no evidence of torture. She said that

The explanation that makes the most sense to me was that which the American doctor, the American ME, and the North Korean doctors put forth: that they gave him sedatives after his sentencing, and either he had a bad reaction to the drug or they accidentally overdosed him. His brain was deprived of oxygen for a long enough time to cause devastating brain damage.

^^Oh, and his parents. They think he was tortured. The father claimed that it looked like DPRK had "rearranged" his bottom teeth with pliers; the medical examiner says this isn't possible, based on the examination by a forensic dentist.

North Korea is one of those places where all of the men and women in the ruling class need to be shot in the head... like Saudia Arabia.

Saudi

Thank you God, I mean R135. For your wisdom from on high.

Let's unite and become a better nation.

Do you really mean that!!!!! You must be a crack head pollyanna.

Fuck you r130 when you're stupid you are stupid, just like the missionary who went to "save" the islanders in India. Cry me a river.

Otto's parents have yet to come to terms with letting him make that trip. They are still blaming others and have yet to come to terms with their own guilt.

This is the type of story that really makes me reluctant to vacation in Pyongyang, no matter how wonderful the food is.

[quote]God only knows what they subjected him to.

Repeated views of Mame dubbed in Korean?

^Songs dubbed by Wing.

R131 When I lived in Europe, Denmark had a tax rate of 60% that kicked in at just 60,000 Euros of annual income. Every continental european with a marketable skill that I met wanted to somehow , if possible, move to the UK where takes were somewhere between European countries' and the US. The brits with marketable skills wanted to move the US. Be careful what you wish for.

'Taxes" not takes

In July 2019, the Warmbier family filed a claim on a North Korean cargo ship, Wise Honest, that had been judicially seized in Indonesia by the U.S. government in May 2019 for allegedly transporting and selling North Korean coal in violation of international sanctions.[113][114][115] U.S. federal judges ordered that the vessel be sold to compensate the Warmbiers, and also the family of Kim Dong-shik, a Korean-American missionary believed to have died in North Korea after being abducted from China in January 2000.[116][117]

I tend not to fly off to foreign countries where the laws are strict, but I've done dumb shit in my life; like go to bars alone and get hammered in big cities and stumbled back to hotel rooms; it's a miracle I wasn't mugged or killed.

This poor kid made one mistake, sure, major, but he paid for it with his life.

RIP

Sounds like a typical Friday night to me.

He was a really nice kid in HS. Kind to everyone and popular. He went to public school for academically gifted. His parents were unassuming and Republicans but not Trump crazies. They are reportedly angry with Trump for the way all of this was handled.

Obviously "academically gifted" doesn't equal street smarts.

[quote] And like the "model" who was scalped, he gambled and lost

R3, who?!

R150

On his iPod?