EastEnders Part 6

Great thread, thanks R1.

We should start seeing the work of the new executive producer soon. Hopefully, he will activate the sexually dormant LGB characters like Ben, Johnny, Sonia and Tina.

Thanks. Apparently Donna and Jay are meddling in Ben's love life (what love life? ) in two weeks . So expect more hilarious hijinks like post it episode .

Oh God, the post-it episode. That was horrible.

I think the idea behind it wasn't too bad , just the execution of it . They should have kept the post its in their house .

The post its were typical of SOC's work and his relentless emphasis on comedy and community. That should all end now.

We need drama, drama, drama, new producer. And by drama, I don't mean a big set piece like a bus crash, gas explosion or ambulance and truck collision.

I watched Eastenders when it first came to DC. It was on PBS late at night - 11 pm. It was fun and good. But whatever season they're showing now in DC is god awful. It is pribably waay behind. The people are horrible, they all look like skanks, talk like skanks, have ridiculous story lines and I cannot believe it is still on the air. Oh and no one can act worth a damn. Put it out of its misery and end it.

"What? My Kushie on steroids?"

"No, no, he would never, not my Kushie. He's just been workin' out extra hard, that's all it is. Right , Kushie?"

" Don't you dare embarrass your Mum, I'm head of the council."

Is that cunt Dot still on this show?

Sick of all these idiots on Twitter and other message boards moaning about Ian not mentioning Steven. His wife is in ICU. Hello? Priorities? Steven isn't even his son.

Walford Web is cute about Steven , on the one hand they moan how the producers/writers think they're stupid and need to have everything spelled out to understand it , on the other hand they want to have everything explained to them and spelled out . Ian's non reaction to Steven's death is oddly written but it's clear to me that he just refuses to admit that it happened .

💌 I love me some Dot ❣

In that very first shot of Ian on Monday's episode it was clear he knew about Steven.

I'm midway on how they handled it. If the writers didn't want to include the scene where the doctor told Ian that Steven was dead, I'm fine with that. I'm sure we'll get enough of Ian's blubbering next week when he finally breaks down in Kathy's arms.

But that said - I DO think they should have followed-up with a quick scene in Monday's episode where Sharon and Ben would have privately commented on how Ian was reacting (or not reacting) to his son's death. Something simple like that would not only have seemed natural, but would have clued those viewers in who apparently need things spelled out for them that, yes, Ian knew Steven had died. Instead neither Sharon nor Ben mentioned Steven's death either.

I agree with that, R13.

What about the cunt Dot?

Got something to say, ya' bloody bitch at R15?

How would you feel about having me rip your throat out, and pissing all over your face?

Just as I thought ....... !

Ian's experiencing a normal reaction known as shock. Poor Ian. Just wait until it's confirmed that it was indeed an arson, and Max will probably sing like a canary.

The actor who plays Max claimed that his revenge story would play out for three years. No fucking way will that happen.

R17 he's probably trying to set Ian up for it .

Ian seems to be in some kind of fugue state. In the 1980s they called it multiple loss syndrome.

It's so unrealistic to have Jane flat on her back in hospital again like that so soon. I'll be glad to see the back of this new producer.

Ian's grief and depression may bring back hot Peter, though, with any luck.

It'll have to be a different hot Peter. Ben Hardy is playing the drummer in the Queen biopic being directed by Bryan Singer.

Isn't he a bit old for Singer .

It's bothering me on such a deep level that Ben's been to the hospital like five times and hasn't once stumbled across Johnny. One of those rare times in soap when the character interaction is actually frustratingly realistic (hospitals are massive and Steven & Johnny weren't on the same Ward).

It's a missed opportunity to have them together for a scene, even if cliche. They don't have to snog or anything though that would be nice and in-character, as Ben is needy and possessive and not good at handling loss. They could just discuss Max & his shady behaviour like the Hardy Boys. But as the sole two young gays, they need to be talking. At the very least Johnny could have Whatsapp'd Ben to let him know where he is and what's gone on by now. Like the proper 'mates' we're supposed to believe they are.

I think Ben is destined to be with Keanu. Danny Walters just shot a photo spread for a gay magazine in the UK.

R24 Not necessarily , that's just Danny playing to his already existing fan base . In other Danny news . Danny Dire has signed a new contract . Why are we punished with more Mick ?

Keanu seems totally asexual at this point. What is he? Still a virgin, or at least celibate? And/or is SOC playing the (hackneyed) "gay mystery" with this seemingly sexless character?

Meanwhile, we've already been informed that his YOUNGER, heterosexual siblings have already had sex (Bernadette with Callum), or are wildly crushing on an object of their desire (Keegan on Louise). Yet, no hint as to who gets Keanu's motor revved up.

Because Keanu is the good sibling . Only bad (aka poor benefit scroungers) people have sex .

Danny Dyer just signed on for two more years.

R27 Must be an SOC thing .. Because Johnny and Paul would both be considered "good" characters, yet DTC had Johnny snogging Danny Pennant within a few episodes .. and Paul had barely arrived on the Square (backpack still in hand) when he got Ben behind the concession stand at the park for some tonsil hockey and crotch-rubbing.

Soc has been weird , he turned Ben and Johnny almost asexual (except for that one off , immediately followed by that friendship declaration), degayed Steven , had Tina sleep with Woody and Sonia lusting after Bex male teacher who also kisses Bex . It seems Soc a likes teacher student affairs since he brought Michelle back with that horrible Preston storyline .

Yeah, R30 very weird. .. SOC also threw away developing anything between Johnny and Tom Pepper, which seemed like a nice little parting gift left behind by DTC to be opened. .. Instead we got drunk Derek having "humorous" fantasies about straight Patrick.

[quote] SOC turned Ben and Johnny almost asexual (except for that one off , immediately followed by that friendship declaration), degayed Steven , had Tina sleep with Woody and Sonia lusting after Bex male teacher who also kisses Bex . It seems Soc a likes teacher student affairs since he brought Michelle back with that horrible Preston storyline .

The man absolutely has a ton of sexual hang-ups he's working out via EE, and from the looks of this breakdown it's probably a complex about women or young people getting more hot dick he is (or has). There's also many instances of authority and social censure getting in the way, as said upthread. Even before DTC Ben and Johnny would have been knocking boots by now, and its conspicuous that they aren't.

The lesbian erasure doesn't surprise me much, however, that's par for the bloody course isn't it? I also suspect he has an underlying contempt for women, being that he is killing off or shipping out the strong, independent and complex or flawed females and keeping the tittering, dependent, stereotypical Frauen. The only exception to this rule has been Bex/Louise, but they're still schoolkids with no agency.

This Ben/Kathy moment (coming up tonight) with Ben explaining the mechanics of grief to Kath is really interesting. Ben gives us a tantalising window into his past in South Africa, how he was exposed to loss at an incredibly young age and forced to mature and leave his innocence behind too soon. This is a theme in Ben's life as well as a callback to his most recent loss of Paul, and shines a light on Ben's inner self.

That Kath doesn't understand such repercussions is in-character, too. She's definitely is Flight as much as Ben is Fight (and Ian is Freeze). Kathy is sweet and honest and she tries hard, but she has walls up so high and so strong (she's had to, to survive) that she forgets to feel and empathise more often than not.

Gilllian Taylforth is no Judi Dench but she's always been damn appealing. And bitch looks after herself.

Her most recent face lift has left her with a sharp jaw but also makes her look even more miserable, for some reason. People get these lifts but their skin gets very thin and it just combines to make them look exhausted.

But what about Dot?

is she dead?

Dot is there to remind everyone that you can smoke 40 a day for 70 years and still live to be 90.

I wish they would just kill Dot off . Nothing against June Brown but she's not getting any younger and if she died suddenly we'll never get a proper send off for Dot.

Seems like Mrs Peel has ruffled some feathers with her Kim is the worst shrieking

So I guess we might finally learn what team Keanu bats for.

Is Mrs. Peel being accused of racism?

R40 She went on one of her usual hate rants (honestly , other than Stacey and Janine does she like anyone?) and called Kim an offensive racial stereotype while quoting somebody else's opinion . This other poster appears to be a black woman who doesn't understand what makes Kim an offensive racial stereotype and wants Mrs Peel to stop quoting her .

Ah, thanks, R41.Mrs. Peel is often under the mistaken impression that just because she doesn’t like a particular actor/character they should be fired/written out. And considering she’s by all indications a woman she seems to save her disdain mostly for female characters-she constantly labelled Bianca, Carol and Jane as “cunts.”

R39 the girl in that pic is Keanu's mystery squeeze? She looks like Lucy Beale....

When's Tommy (Jay/Ben's geezer mate) coming back? I want a sweet little urchin like that hanging about.

R41 Tameka is actually a fairly good comic actress as well as very gay-friendly (see the movie BEAUTIFUL THING) so she should not be getting bashed by anyone let alone the Internet Soap Community.

That being said, Kim has been written like a cartoon character in the past year. This most recent Arc about her 'community spirit' makes her comes across like a bit character on a CBBC skit. A real waste.

R43 The girl in the pic has been playing Jack's nanny, "Ingrid," for a few months now.

I was lit when relapsed Lauren went off on Whitney about her pathetic crush on Mick the other night. This is the Lauren I love, the ballsy lush who spits truth at all the hopeless delusional nothings of the Square.

If EE were actually a good drama, or even a comedy, Lauren would become full-homeless and stinkin'-o-drink and remain very visible on the Square as a reminder of the poison at the heart of the place. It's narrative genius. She'd sleep in a cardboard fort by Walford East Station, and move a sleeping bag between shopfronts (favouring Minute Mart). She'd interact about once or twice a week, shambling around rattling a tin or maybe rolling around in the park grass scaring little Arthur and all his teeny pals.

Where is hunky Josh?

He missing his big chance to ride in on his white pony and save the day !

I had a dream last night featuring Ben & Johnny sharing a long sweet kiss by Arthur's bench in the dark. Iirc the scene had a flurry of snow blowing about (or at least, was cold & frosty). Paul's ghost was there watching a few paces off, and while he seemed a bit wistful or miffed he was genuinely smiling, too.

I'm not saying my dreams are premonitory, but Christmas is Coming, the goose is getting fat and it's been a rubbish (hah) year on EE and in real life so I think a really good present is in order to make up for it.

It’s official-Fi Browning is really Sophie Wilmott-Brown. And Josh (now sporting a beard) is her brother.

R49, someone on here said that would be the case a while back, didn't they? All very contrived because no-one whose name is Sophie calls themselves Fi for short, that's only for Fionas or Fionnualas. So I guess they are both complicit in the plan to somehow destroy the Square's businesses?

Josh was wearing a super tight shirt which showed off his big gym muscles.

Lauren looks grim and dowdy. She was such a cute looking girl before she put on all that baby weight. She'll have to lose that now or she'll be really limited as to what roles she gets.

Not sure I like that . Kathy's rape storyline was brilliant back in the day and I just know they'll going to destroy it now . They simply don't have the writing talent not to crap all over it .

Thursday the 28th - Ben heads out for a date at the Queen Vic.

Friday the 29th - Ben’s date doesn’t go to plan. Elsewhere, Ingrid offers to take Keanu for dinner after they enjoy a drink together.

I realize the Ben/Keanu thing may not be happening, but then again, I wonder if the whole reason Ingrid and Keanu are having a drink in the pub, is for Keanu to see Ben out on a date with a guy, thereby having him learn Ben is gay.

In other news, there's mention of Johnny's birthday on Tuesday the 26th.

Spoilers mention that Donna & Jay inadvertently ruin Ben's hot date when they follow him to the Vic to nose. DigitalSpy forums predict that the date mistakes Jay for Ben, which is 'Post-It' levels of farce. The Keanu connection may yet yield but I would highly doubt it (remember Johnny/Steven went nowhere?).

It seems more probable that some occurrence on Johnny's birthday has a knock-on effect on proceedings. Ben is Johnny's friend and would want to go and see him live & kicking on his birthday (and post-NDE) so they'll almost certainly have a scene on Tuesday, and since Johnny works in the Vic still he gets a front row seat to Ben's date the following day. How Johnny feels about it will depend on his new life outlook, no?

Here's what bothered me about Johnny's miraculous recovery - no concern from brother & sister? Lee didn't phone, Nance didn't text. As mentioned upthread even his two or three friends weren't bothered. And now Johnny is up and walking about right as rain after a weekend convalescence. How? Wasn't his lung ripped apart by a bullet? Retcons are all very well and Johnny is young & strong, but come on.

Speaking of Lee I miss Danny-Boy. He was never that popular and he'd agree that his character was badly drawn, but I always thought he was appealing on EE anyhow. He's gone back to theatre now, and while he does well treading the boards I hope he doesn't get mired in Panto and local shows forevermore. He says "never say never" to an EE return (they all say that) but I for one really would like to see him again.

Danny-Boy has a very unfortunate face, like that of a ferret.

At least they didn't recast the actor

When Ben was in the Vic talking to Kathy, he didn't even stop to ask anyone how Johnny's doing. Then yesterday, it looked as if Fi cared more about Johnny than any of his mates.

Hel-LO, Wilmott-Brown. That was fantastic. Good for SOC for bringing the actor back from retirement. It’s not impossible for him to still be The Chairman, right? No Simon Williams anymore and William Boyde is now The Chairman? If not then I think he’s either W-B’s brother or the brother of the wife/mother who committed suicide.

So Kathy didn’t reveal to Linda that she’d been raped TWICE? That was negligent of her.

R57 Johnny just seems to have forgotten the whole ordeal already, he's completely unfazed.

Him and Ben gossiping like hens at the wake yesterday made me chuckle. I love seeing them interact and I'm rooting for them as a couple, but this behaviour really has got to stop. They're Eldergays at 21. "Yeah, but...cancer? Don't lie about that." Cluck, tsk. No wonder Steven shuffled off early, I'd be sick of listening to this chatter down the Albert as well. Lucky this all happened before Sausage's birthday though, eh?

Has Johnny also turned on his former-best-gal Abi now that all this Steven nonsense has come out?

Ben's date is cute, does look like a hybrid of the best parts of Paul & Johnny though. Erk.

If DS have got it right then this lad has got a thing for gingers. Twitter think he's the same actor as one of the extra mechanics at the Arches last year (one of the ones who fucked off and left Ben shortstaffed).

That's Ingrid and Keanu in the background of the pic at R61 .. so again, I wonder if that could be the point .. to have Keanu witness this date of Ben's?

Too bad Cora couldn't make it to Steven's funeral. I missed her acerbic take on events, especially Max not being there. She probably would have figured out what's going on with Abi as well.

I loved the big James Wilmott-Brown reveal/return last night. I had figured that Fi and Josh were brother and sister, but had assumed The Chairman was the father, not their Uncle Hugo. I did wonder who the mysterious man dropping the flowers was - David? Peter? But when the card read "To Kathy from an old friend" I actually thought could it be Gavin? I never even thought of JW-B. Good job by the writers in keeping with the original backstory (kids names, wife's name and death by suicide).

It does tie in well with Weyland & Co's agenda to destroy the Square - that one puzzled me as their motivation seemed personal vs profit. Remember when Max first met The Chairman and he went on about the Square being full of the worst types living grubby lives or something? I thought maybe despite his posh accent and manners, he may have come from the Square, (another Sullivan?), reinvented himself, and now wanted to destroy the last reminder of where he came from. But I'm liking this direction with JW-B behind it all! Posh villains are much more interesting and have more storyline potential instead of some new East End gangsters or the resurrection of "The Firm".

In light of JW-B's return, anyone think he's the one pulling Phil's strings re: confessing (falsely) to killing Jay's supposed bio dad? Any other theories or thoughts on who is? And who is Jay's real bio dad?

What about Sonia? What went down in Kettering? I'm thinking she got involved with a patient romantically and helped in an assisted suicide?

I get Max wanting revenge on Jane, Ian, even Lauren and Abi over the whole Lucy thing, but I can't figure out why he's gone after Jack too - and so hard? Thoughts? I have loved the evolution of Abi - she's well on her way to becoming a combo of Janine and Babe - the new bitch on the Square. I wonder how Cora will take it?

While I'm a fan of Kellie Bright, I'm so sick of the Mick and Linda drama. They're always saying how they're all about 100% honesty, yet they constantly hide things and lie to each other! And Mick has evolved into my least favourite character. Let them part ways already, give Linda a storyline with Jack and have Mick grow into a drunk having lost the pub.

I do like the Taylors - I want to see Karen and Shirley develop as friends and I don't think Keanu is gay, he's the good son determined to take care of his family and rise above his birth. Him being handy and willing to help everyone will have the Square soften on him and by extension the family. Wonder if any of the dads will show up and if any will have connections on the Square?

I don't think Tom the Stalker has anything to do with JW-B or Weyland, I just think he's become obsessed with Michelle - I could be wrong but we'll see.

I can see this whole revenge plot evolving and going on long term. Jane will have some memory loss when she wakes up, so Max will be safe for now. The Square will eventually get wind of Weyland, their intentions, who is running it and it will be a back and forth battle to save Albert Square.

Remember when Aunt Babe left and she put her curse on The Vic and the Carters? Anyone think she'll have a part to play in any of this revenge/destroy the Square story? I can picture Babe living with Queenie Trott, seething with rage and wanting revenge, all the while being egged on by Queenie.

Missing from the Square - a new "Tart with a Heart" character as all the others are either married, moved off, or dead now. Please don't suggest Whitney either - she's just a trashy slapper.

As for gays - why can't we have an actually good looking gay character? Ben and Jonny aren't exactly pin ups are they? We've had Colin and Barry, Syed and Christian, and even Steven in the past. Is it too much to ask for a Woody or Keanu or Kush type to be the new gay on the Square?

No mention of Kat or Alfie - I'm guessing Redwater won't be renewed unfortunately. So are they both dead or dying? Will they return to the Square or will the widow Kat come alone?

Time for a cuppa and bourbon cream!

Let's play a little guessing game , which character is lovely Mrs Peel of WWweb fame describing here :

She's not even the "nice girl who sings." I'll tell you what she is. She's the nice girl who has book smarts but little common sense at all. She's been filled with nothing but positive re-inforcement, sometimes undeservedly so, to the point that she can't understand why, if she's such a "nice girl", she gets flack and labelled a tart by lesser contemporaries because she appears to drop her knickers instantly for any ship that passes in the night. And mingled along with her self-righteous bewilderment is a dogged insistance that she's so incredibly mature.

As soon as she turned sixteen, she preached to Martin about how she was an adult, and then, after seeking advice from various bona fide adults, proceeded to sleep with the first boy who asked her, well before she was emotionally ready. She succumbed to a stranger after talking to him for five minutes. And she's pushing a relationship with an emotionally immature adult who happens to have a duty of care and is in a position of trust.

She's incredibly self-righteous, smug and eminently unlikable.

R65 no mystery there, Bex Fowler. I'm wondering if she'll follow in auntie's footsteps and get knocked up now?

What's shocking is that this soap is still being aired in the US, is it still many years behind the UK airings? In the beginning, by airing the series nightly, they eps were up to date, then PBS really screwed up. The year it was shown on BBCAmerica, they aired the current episodes, meanwhile PBS was back to being 3-5 years behind!

I remember years after I stopped watching Eastenders, my mom was still a fan, she wanted to discuss the show, I told her I'd stopped watching. At that point, she had no idea Wendy Richard had died in real life, the series were so far behind, Wendy was still alive and well in Albert Square.

Good points, R64. I really do think now that Roxy got her drugs either by him or from a go-between. And so Max is indirectly responsible for the deaths of both Mitchell sisters.

R66 Exactly , a 16 year old girl who had sex with two guys , one was her then boyfriend and the other used her to make her aunt jealous . It's not like she had a gang bang for money with half the school .

Mrs. Peel can seem a tad unhinged.

I don't even know why she gets me like this , it's the mixture of condescending arrogance , misogynistic hate and a know-it-all attitude that doesn't allow any space for other opinions and interpretations .

R68 - ohhhh I hadn't thought of that! Good one! If you're right, Max has really done a number on poor Jack. But what's behind it - the hate? I feel like I'm/we're missing a piece of the puzzle.

I was just thinking as I'm posting, Max did oddly enough open up to Carmel (my second least favourite character) about Tonya being the love of his life, but they couldn't stick it. Do you think all his hate against Jack stems from Jack's affair with Tonya?

Whatever happens, I don't see right now any road to redemption for Max. Once the truth comes out I'm thinking he'll die by his own hand or someone else's. But I still think that - everything coming out - is a long way off.

BTW - anyone else find the Mitchell family's reaction to Phil having "killed" Jay's bio dad odd? They all were shocked that Phil committed a crime where someone died. Really? You're shocked that a career criminal and gangster may have killed someone?

Two last observations for now:

1.) I do think the Carters lose the Vic but Weyland will be blocked from tearing it down. The pub will get protected status or something. So with the Carters out, who would get the lease to run the pub? Potentially a good pretext for Kat and Alfie (or just the widow Kat) to return. Or, if they're bringing back old characters, how about Chrissie Watts? Newly released, bent on revenge, and if he's still alive, backed by Jake Moon (I think he's still alive and took over Johnny Allen's operations).

2.) We've never seen Darius, perhaps with Carmel and Kush's health issues he'll return (weird that one brother is an Essex wide boy and the other some big shot exec in Dubai). Could Darius be the good looking gay the Square needs? If he's like his brother Kush, I'm down for that!

Any other theories, observations, thoughts from other EE watchers? Who would you like to reappear on the Square?

I think a newly widowed Kat should return and take over the Vic.

R72 I found it irritating how the show had Ben forget that he stalked Phil with the car lot fire death years ago . He already knew his dad accidentally roasted someone .

The thing with Phil and career criminal and gangster is that at one point Phil was a small time crook , with some dodgy dealings but not the crime kingpin they turned him into after Kathy left for South Africa for good..

[quote] But I still think that - everything coming out - is a long way off.

I kind of got the opposite impression.

Instead of that "three year" story we originally heard about, I noted that Chairman Hugo told Fi "we're stepping it up a gear." We also know Lauren and Abi leaving soon. I think it would be odd if they wrote The Branning Sisters out before Max's deception came to light. And then there's the upcoming story with Mick and Phil getting involved with the Irish crime boss at the end of the year. I'm wondering how that fits with this story, especially in relation to Mick. .. I also think Fi and Josh might be wild cards. I get the impression that Fi is beginning to waver a bit - as if she's actually starting to care about The Carters. When she brought up giving them a "reasonable amount of time," the Chariman overruled and said they didn't have any time and told her he wanted them out on the street. Fi didn't look too happy. And when Josh questioned why Max wasn't at the funeral supporting Lauren, Luke stepped in and admonished Josh for always caring about people. I'm thinking we might have dissent within, sooner rather than later.

[quote] And then there's the upcoming story with Mick and Phil getting involved with the Irish crime boss at the end of the year.

I'm not saying Peaky Blinders Crossover Event, but I'm not *not* saying it.

[quote] Or, if they're bringing back old characters, how about Chrissie Watts? Newly released, bent on revenge, and if he's still alive, backed by Jake Moon (I think he's still alive and took over Johnny Allen's operations).

I am probably the biggest Chrissie Watts fan there is, she's my favourite EE character of all. That character helped me realise I was lesbian and stood out as the only somewhat-feminist character on BBC telly at the time. I'd have mixed feelings.

On the one hand, her run was so legendary that a return would very likely tarnish her original story and ruin the character, especially as the writing has been recently. I don't care about the legacy or longevity of 99% of EE characters because they don't mean much more to me than cheap pops and a bit of a distraction at teatime, but it would sting if Chrissie were wrecked. She's one of the rare 3D female characters in EE and she should be protected accordingly. More than just a 'bad girl' or a panto Witch, Chrissie ascended as this righteous & vengeful Goddess-y figure disguised as a femme-fatale, almost Shakespearean. She went toe-to-toe with big-time gangsters like Johnny Allen and HBICs like Peggy. Chrissie would make Linda Carter tremble in her kitten-heels and Mick fall to his knees, so powerful was she at one time, and I can't help but feel such a woman would not be respected or given room to breathe her fire as things stand on the Square right now. What could she do? Where could she fit? Oberman once gave a quote to a magazine saying she imagined Chrissie escaping to Spain, ditching Jake and running a beach-club with some young Latin boy-toy into her retirement. Why ruin that dream and Chrissie's worth just for some cheap heat?

Then again, seeing Oberman don the glitter, talons and wrap-dresses to stride into Walford again would get my heart going and would absolutely catalyse the Square, even if only for a short time. There's no doubt about it. I feel the character is so strong and Oberman plays her so well that perhaps she'd survive a short visit in lieu of a full return, and there's enough remaining links in Walford for her to cause some big ripples. Seeing her again would rattle Sharon & Stacey, for sure, and a returning Kat.

Tracy-Ann has also gone on record saying she always wanted to come back to Chrissie's story, at least c. several years ago.

[quote] OBERMAN: I would have loved to have wrapped it up. I'd love to finish off Chrissie's storyline because I love the character and I do feel that she was left in limbo. To know what happened to her would be great. Even if she went back to say goodbye or wanted to make peace with Sam. Or maybe we could see her in prison? I can't believe that I'm still recognised so much as Chrissie. I still get a lot of letters about her, too. I think that she had as much of an impact as Janine (Charlie Brooks) did, which surprised me.

Speaking as a big fan of the character, I'd be more anxious & fearful about a return than excited. But, if the writing held up...

R74 I remembered it (the car lot fire and dead homeless man) as an open secret in that the old characters pretty much knew it was Phil who did it in cahoots with Frank. I had admittedly forgotten Ben's stalking Phil over the fire - but that just adds to the irritating oddness of the reactions.

I still want to know who is pulling Phil's strings here and who Jay's real dad is!

R75 sure this could be wrapped up fairly quickly but I hope it isn't. Fi and Josh seem to be wavering due to their personal feelings, however I think that will just delay things. Like I said, maybe Fi will help the pub get protected status hoping to save the Carters but while the pub is saved, the Carters still lose it. Paving the way for a hopeful Linda-Mick split, Linda and Jack story, Mick going in with Phil and the Irish gangster, Jonny can get a life, etc..

As far as Lauren and Abi leaving, there's lots of ways for that to happen without a full disclosure of what Max is responsible for. Lauren could easily go back on the drink, she could go back to Peter, she could find out Max's role, confront her dad, leave in disgust. That bit could come out but I'm not seeing the whole extent of what Max has done, is doing coming out (Charlie/Matthew; Steven; Jane) for a while.

With Abi, once it's known she's having Steven's baby, she'll be ostracized by the Square so she'll leave over that. Maybe she'll be the one to know what Max is up to, blackmail him over it for money, then once she has the cash to leave and start over, she'll reveal it all before leaving with one of her smiles.

R77 - I completely agree with everything you said. I would not want Chrissie back if it meant tarnishing her legacy in any way. Having said that, Oberman was such a compelling presence as Chrissie I think she would make sure the scripts/storyline were worthy before signing on. Imagine Stacey and Sharon's shock as Chrissie steps behind the bar for the first time. If the widow Kat is back too, all the better. It could work into the whole Irish gangster storyline too - he recruits Phil and Mick to help him and it is revealed who he's up against is Jake Moon who has taken over Johnny Allen's operations and is the mysterious backer of Chrissie. Chrissie could punish and taunt them all in so many ways and encourage others (Abi) - I have no doubt Oberman would be brilliant!

Imagine - Fi's efforts to save the Vic and the Carters only partly successful-she saves the Vic, but the Carters still lose it. Mick and Linda are finally quits; Linda starts up with Jack; Mick turns into a drunk who Phil takes an interest in which leads to the Irish gangster; Jonny gets a proper life and maybe a love interest in a hunky Darius. The widow Kat returns to the Square staying with Stacey; Fi has the Vic trading with Woody as manager, Tracey, Stacey and Whitney behind the bar; Fi announces to a packed Vic she's leaving (she is set to leave the show) and introduces her replacement - in walks Chrissie! Lauren turns to drinking on the sly to cope with the lies she knows about Steven; Abi is revealed to be preggers with Steven's baby and everyone turns on her including Cora who is pretty vicious. She's still cooking at the Vic, Chrissie encourages her and Abi finds out Max's involvement with Weyland and the plan (maybe from a drunk Fi) and blackmails him, once she has the money and is ready to go, in front of the packed Vic she reveals all before sharing a smile with Chrissie and walking out. Lauren is devastated as both Max and Josh have been lying to her. Drinks herself sick, either has a moment and sobers up and leaves the Square with Louis, or, she winds up in hospital, Tonya gets her into rehab by her, Louis stays with Ian and Jane. JW-B and Uncle Hugo realize Max's usefulness has come to an end and cut him off. Weyland still controls most of the Square and the council with Hugo counseling JW-B to bide his time. Max winds up working for Jake against Phil, Mick, Irish gangster.

Anyway, this is all just my wishful thinking/fantasy storylines.

R78 Don't get me wrong. Like you, I'd actually prefer a longer story myself. ;)

I just sense there's been a move to accelerate it from what was originally planned under SOC. (And now it appears Lisa Faulkner (Fi) is confirming her exit as well.)

R79 & R75 I know what you're saying - it's happened on EE and other shows when there's been a change in the production team, some storylines get adandoned or wrapped up way too quickly (and often in a very unsatisfying way). I just hope the new team takes the storybook and sees the value of a long term plot with the posh baddies. I don't think it was ever going to be a front burner storyline every episode, but having it long term sets up so many more possibilities.

As for Fi - I thought Lisa Faulkner said at the time she started that she was only on for a set time. I see all the headlines about "EE star set to leave!" now but I wouldn't term her a star on the show. Fi could leave whether because of her guilt or Uncle Hugo and daddy give her the boot and the story can and should continue.

I still think Uncle Hugo has some hidden connection to the Square and just wondering how that will play out and be revealed.

Johnny will get jealous when he sees Ben is dating again. They've always had this push-pull fascination with each other and Johnny is spoiled enough that he won't share his toys with any rando that walks in the Vic.

Maybe Jon will use his birthday wish to get Ben into his bed, this time.

Fi will soon be out at EastEnders.

Oh mah Gawd, Keegan is gonna 'ave Shaki.

There's a new Vicar an' all...a LADY Vicar.

Poor Shakil !

:-[

The Taylor's smell like stale Fritos and stinky feet.

Keegan is the only one who looks like he showers and brushes his teeth on a regular basis.

I agree R81, Johnny's never been totally honest about his feelings re. Ben, always 'helping' him for vague reasons and insinuating himself as a 'mate' while not really acting like one. This date happening right under his own nose will (or, should, if the writing is any good this week) bring that reality home.

Remember last year when Ben officially came out publicly in the Vic by kissing Paul? Johnny egged him on to do it (again, for some 'friendship' reason that didn't quite wash) but when time came for the kiss the reality of what Paul meant to Ben hit Johnny in the feels. Everyone in the Vic looked either shocked or touched by the tender moment (bar Phil, of course), but the scene cut to Johnny and he just deadass stared in horror like he couldn't believe Ben had actually gone and got himself a real nice bf. His expression was less 'wtf' and more ':/'. At the time it seemed like one of DTC's potential little seeds in case he needed a gay triangle at some point, but it makes sense for Johnny & Ben even now he's gone.

Johnny was a bit younger and more naive then, so it made sense that he thought he could just waltz back into the life he left behind in Walford and that Ben would still be in the closet and pining after him.

I really hope they don't push a whole Jonny-Ben storyline. While I get what others have read into their interactions so far, I actually think Jonny feels bad verging on pity for Ben. Ben on the other hand has a boy crush on Jonny and typically doesn't know how to deal with it.

Give Jonny someone new - not from the Square - as a semi regular presence, maybe another trainee lawyer or a guy who works in the City. Ben can keep doing his Grindr hookups or nights out in Soho catting around.

I didn't interpret Johnny's reaction in that scene that way at all, R86. I figured it was surprise that he had done something so public (before Johnny left for Italy Ben was in denial) mixed with apprehension about Phil's reaction (what everyone else in the scene was reacting to).

As far as "push-pull fascination," R81, it's historically been mostly on Ben's end. I do buy that Johnny is a joiner and "helper" who wants to involve himself in other people's lives without necessarily having ulterior motives. In the case of Ben he also feels the sense of kinship and shared experience most of us feel with other gay people. And I would agree that there's a bit of attraction there too, but I don't think it's his primary motivator.

Wasn't there an actress on this series with such a bad cocaine addiction, her nose collapsed, think her name was Daniella Westbrook?

Her nose looked like she went 20 rounds with Mike Tyson! The actress was adorable when she started on Eastenders, I couldn't believe how busted she looked after years of coke addiction. Too much money and too much time on her hands.

Poor Danniella looks like a beaten up rag doll. I think Kim Medcalf should return as Sam.

[quote] I actually think Jonny feels bad verging on pity for Ben. Ben on the other hand has a crush.

Ok, idk about this. Sorry for the tl;dr to follow (I'm bored at work lol), but I have some ideas on this I want to share. I respect that you don't want Ben/Johnny and don't see it, that's cool, but it's still viable imo.

Last year I would have agreed with that the relationship was one-sided and that Johnny looked down on Ben as a pity case (I used to dislike Johnny intensely), but since Johnny came back & Ben came out there's been a change in that dynamic. Johnny has had a few dents to his confidence and a couple of knock backs which learned him some empathy, while Ben has been through Hell which ravaged his already torn-up psyche. They have been brought closer together, making their relationship more equal, and this not coincidentally led to Johnny seeing his friend in a new light and giving in to Ben's, urm, passions...

"But" you say, "this is only recent". Well, there's a case to say that seeds were sown on Johnny's end over a year ago even if you discount the pub moment. Like how Johnny conspicuously ducked out of Ben's life while Paul was on the scene (would a mate do this?) but returned to Ben's side the minute Paul was gone. Sweet? Yes. Supportive? Of course. Johnny really wanted to help a fellow gay, altruistically. But don't sell the lad short. He's his mother's son, possessive and wilful as well as loyal, and with Shirl as a Gran and Babe as an Aunt it's a given that he's fiercely passionate about a select few people in his life to the point of doggedness (and perhaps a bit emotionally snarled up like all the Carters). What if he doesn't realise what his feelings for Ben are yet? It took Shirley ages to admit she loved Phil, Nancy a long time with Tam. Johnny's a touchy cerebral type who's been badly burned by his first serious relationship (Gianluca), so of course he'd find it hard to admit it if he caught feelings for Benjamin now. As viewers we aren't been given insight into Johnny's heart or mind (and haven't for years) so it would be easy to miss this.

And Ben is obviously still seriously interested in Jon even if he's burying that under sketchy dates, nights out and Grindr boys. Since January they've been flirting (publicly!) with one another, spending more time together chatting or larking about, hanging out. They've been doing this for ages, actually (remember the awkward-but-cute tentative friendship they formed over Christmas 2014?). As we now know they've slept together at least once, too - and yes, casual NSA/FWB gay sex is a thing, but not so much when one or both parties feel some type way about the other. They're both trying to keep things platonic but when others close to them like Whit, Abi, Jay & Tommy of all people notice this isn't working, well....

[quote] Give Jonny someone new - not from the Square - as a semi regular presence, maybe another trainee lawyer or a guy who works in the City. Ben can keep doing his Grindr hookups or nights out in Soho.

I don't want to shit all over your fantasy my dude, but does anyone want Johnny with...another Johnny? That just sounds like the most anodyne prospect. Maybe a fit, sharky, outgoing type like Josh would be an alright fit for him, but even that's hard to picture. Going by Johnny's previous lovers (Danny & Gianluca) he favours passionate and intense men who use their feelings to navigate the world. This is just a personal opinion but I like Johnny with Ben so much because Ben fits Johnny's attraction criteria well (if in a very cracked and sad way) and because they're so different as personalities that they have friction, and give each other a jolt of energy. It translates well on-screen when two diverse energies like that meet.

Ben slutting it up while single is totally fine by me, though, except we never see it or hear it referenced anymore (it's been over 6 months if we don't count this upcoming date) so it isn't consequential. Also, iirc Ben didn't like how hooking up felt in the wake of Paul's death and literally sat down and told Johnny this on the swing set back last year (yet got over it when Johnny tumbled into bed with him...hmmmm).

Hang on, I've just had a thought.

Jay...his original last name is 'Brown'. It couldn't be that Jay is a long-lost relative of old James...could it?

I doubt it, R93.

Looks like Ben is going to hook up with the much older son of his mother's rapist.

Have they recast Johnny yet? If not they need to. The actor is bloody awful. I've never before seen a more wooden actor, well maybe except for Henry Cavill.

The current Johnny is already a recast . The first Johnny had a bit more charisma but left because he wasn't given anything to do either.

[quote] Looks like Ben is going to hook up with the much older son of his mother's rapist.

Not sure whether to deem it clever or far too obvious that they had Ben indicate he'd 'do' Greg - the 42-year old blond from Mile End - who appeared on Michelle's phone right before they had him crash into a very similar-looking Luke... lol!

James was critical of Luke's idea for The Square, belittling his son's input. I wonder if Luke has daddy issues similar to Ben's? This could be interesting, or at least different.

R98 He was in prison and depends on his father for income ? Sounds like some similarities are their .

So if Luke and Ben hook-up, will their portmanteau be LUBE?

That's the name the Digital Spy forum came up with . After running through Buke , Len and Beke

DigitalSpy are now predicting a male rape storyline for Ben & Luke, the histrionic herd of wallies.

Parallelism is all very well in soap but that would be a bit OTT after all that poor old Kath went through. There again, I don't like this Luke fella one bit and scummy behaviour from him wouldn't shock me.

R96 don't talk to me or my son Ted ever again

R99 Adding to those similarities would be growing up, losing a mother (w/ abandonment issues). One via suicide, the other via death-fake death.

[quote] Too obvious that they had Ben indicate he'd 'do' Greg - the 42-year old blond from Mile End - who appeared on Michelle's phone right before they had him crash into a very similar-looking Luke...

I didn't get that scene at all, it didn't flow well and it was hard to extract meaning from it. Idk whether that's a sign that Yorke is bringing back some sophistication & intrigue, or just that no one knows wtf they're doing or what is going on with the plots intermingling right now. Hopefully the former.

When Ben watched Keanu leave the Caff he had a look on his face like, "...nah". Are we to assume he has suddenly gone off 'fit geezers'? Or young blokes that read straight? (How old is K anyway?) Or does he find it a turnoff that Keanu is unemployed? There's never been an indication before than Ben has any interest whatsoever in older men, particularly outside his class bracket. This feels out of character.

Also, there's no sign yet that Ben was even interested in Luke, sexually, beyond the convo with Sharon & 'Chelle. When they collided Ben peered at Luke with suspicion just like Johnny did at the Vic, and also with recognition. Maybe Ben has swiped Luke's profile on Fishnet before now and can't quite remember.

So the Branding bitches are just going to leave town, never to return?

I thought Lauren would walk in and catch Abi hugging Steven's ashes, and try to grab the urn from her, and, of course, the lid would conveniently dislodge, and they'd both be covered in what's left of Steven.

R104 by the same logic you could say that Ben and Johnny share a connection because their mothers were both raped. And because their fathers are both awful male role models (if in rather different ways).

R102 Digital Spy has an unhealthy obsession with male rape .

I think the Branning bitches are being “rested.” I think they’ll be back. Lauren can return next year with a re-cast Peter (Ben Hardy ain’t ever coming back) and Abi can return next year with her baby.

Keanu is about to become a life model. So at least they’re getting Danny Walters out of his kit for a couple of episodes.

If Ben and 40s Luke get together, the DS and WW fraus will start howling about the age difference and how it is SO DISTURBING.

I don't see how Ben can go from his type being Johnny and Paul to his type being Luke. Very bizarre.

R110, I think they're leading up to Keanu being a high class male escort, for men and women. It's a storyline they haven't done before and I'd like to see it.

R111, really? You don’t think Ben might have a wider range of interest.? You think all men only have one narrow range of interest when it comes to sex? Come on.

Well buckle up R84 Hun and check your spoilers, 'cuz sadly it's happening.

A 'Jay's Real Dad' storyline is so cruel and so crass, but of course it's Eastenders so they're doing it anyway. Jay loved Jase more than anyone and anything, he said so himself. "When he died, I thought I was gonna die...and I ain't ever forgotten him, not for one single day". Jay's great love for his tragic father figure is one of the most poignant relationships EE has ever featured as well as the cornerstone of his character. In fact it's the first thing we ever learned about Jay. Trampling over that as if it no longer matters because 'blood is thicker' damages the character of Jay and EE will regret it. Jay & Jase both deserved better.

So as part of this upcoming grand plot, Jay's 'real' family are about to step into the frame. Good for drama but not so good for the soul. Jay has a choice of the Wilmott-Browns or the Mitchells for kin, now that his last tie with Jase has been so callously cut. Fabulously well-off with a pack of wolves looking to decimate his community and the lives of his friends; or dirt-poor with the band of grifters who lied to him for years and took away the only person he ever loved unconditionally...a sadistic choice for a longtime orphan.

Jay's backstory was so raw & emotional as it was, but it's now destroyed by contrivance and a silly little turn of thre screw. It's just terribly heartbreaking.

R113, I can see him veering off a bit, but I've always seen Ben as a top who liked gentle bottoms. Luke is a raging top, surely?

R113 I've generally found that soaps don't pay much attention to "types" when it comes to depicting a gay character's many relationships. They tend to write to whatever suits their storyline and hope it works for whatever it is they're trying to portray.

I imagine you could probably say that about a lot of straight character relationships as well. (e.g. Kush loving and marrying a girl like Shabnam, and now Denise?)

^^^ My post at R116 was actually meant to be a response to what R111 wrote.

I totally agree with R113's take.

R115 And yet at one time Ben was lusting after big, muscular Christian and tried it on with the very masc-looking boxer, Duncan (more than likely a top).

Ben, you slaaaaag!

Spoilers for the first week of October.

🙈@the Bex/Gethin/Sonia triangle. More Woody, eh whatever, but Linda missing her precious Johnny's graduation is hilarious. Carmel & Stace are gonna have a punch-up at some point, can't wait. And Keanu moves a bit fast, don't he?

Johnny's birthday, tragic. How does an outgoing, single, London University student who works in a pub have absolutely no mates and nothing to do (on his 22nd, is it?) I get that he isn't rolling in dosh so he has to work at the Vic as cover and his mates within walking distance like Abi are preoccupied right now, but this is a bit fucking ridiculous. None of the younger characters even said 'happy birthday'. Unless Woody had mentioned it we wouldn't even know about it.

Woody couldn't even give Johnny one slow weeknight off to go out and look for a bit of fun (unless that's happening tonight?). In the end all the birthday boy got was the promise of a free pint and a cringey singsong from his terrible parents. When someone like Ben is doing better socially and has more well-wishers than Johnny, it's a worry.

Going down to Dover for a weekend to visit Lee would have been less depressing for the baby Carter than hanging out in the Queen Vic all day with only the local colour to talk to. How on Earth Johnny isn't at his wit's end yet...

I think he turned 23 . The Carters had 3 kids in 3 years and Lee was born in 1992

They need to either kill off Johnny or recast him. I'm so sick of the actor who can't act for shit. He's also not good looking enough.

He’s a total blank.

Hmm. Seem to recall many posters here and at DS saying they started to like Johnny once he was out of the Vic and interacting with characters his own age. He's a serious, caring personality and his storylines & relationships just need to start reflecting this. Comedy larks with Derek or Woody or the market traders doesn't help him.

It won't take much to completely rejuvenate him again. Just get him & his family kicked out the Vic and move him in somewhere with other 20-somethings, whether it's Ben & Jay et al or someone else entirely. Then, give him a different job more suited to his skills, and keep him away from his Mum & Dad. That's it, total turn-around. A recast is far too drastic and isn't really necessary.

As for attractiveness, to each their own. He's cute to those who like twinks, nerds, waifs or sensitive cherubic lads. He's also not meant to be a heartthrob in the script.

I'd love to know why Johnny gets dumped on all the seniors , first Derek and now the Murrays .

R126 I think it's because this 23-year old Johnny seems 13 going on 73.

imho - If the Carters actually do lose the pub, then downward spiral Mick and emotional Linda should split - with Johnny exiting The Square to go find his career and himself elsewhere. Personally, I think they should rest this character for about a year, then recast with an actor, who has more adult screen presence and vibrancy. They could have Mick (who's said to be going criminal?) get arrested for something, so lawyer Jonathan returns to work on his case. He could also return with his new, surprise boyfriend - the charismatic Darius Kazemi.

Johnny has just qualified as a lawyer and would be starting to practise law by now, surely, not still working in the ViC? I doubt there is a shortage of positions in London.

Jay is a character I have zero interest in and I wouldn't even notice if he left the show tomorrow.

I like the way you think, R127.

R127 The Vic out of Carter hands? A1. Linda finally respecting herself by getting that D.I.V.O.R.C.E? Marvelous. Mick arrested? Awesome. Johnny going by 'Jonathan' after his career glo-up? Inspired.

You had me by the nutsack...until 'Darius Kazemi'. All offence but I hate the Kazemi family and anyone Carmel has spawned, their genes are dull. Even hottie Kush is just cardboard under the surface. We haven't even met Darius yet but you just know he'll be of the same ilk. Probably just a bigger Shakhil.

@R123

Ben should spend less time worrying about creased shirts and more about his grubby fingernails.

Johnny should sabotage this date even more, just for shits & gigs (and because Ben x Johnny is destiny).

Serious Question:

I've been sick of American TV for years, and have been watching many British shows as a more interesting alternative. I want to sink into a long-standing British soap. Um - serial drama.

What's the difference between the quality of CORONATION STREET and EASTENDERS? Which should I watch? I know there are numerous others, but I'd rather watch a multi-generation show that isn't all about teen issues or wealthy characters.

Thanks.

[quote] What's the difference between the quality of CORONATION STREET and EASTENDERS? Which should I watch? I know there are numerous others, but I'd rather watch a multi-generation show that isn't all about teen issues or wealthy characters.

Well R133, - you adorable Anglophile, you - Corrie has been going on longer than 'Enders and currently has a higher production budget (ITV are the poorer station but pour more money into their soaps than the elitist BBC) so from a heritage standpoint, plump for that. Both shows feature a majority of fairly poor to lower-middle-class adult residents of urban areas, so either work for your purposes on that front.

As a Brit native I would recommend Emmerdale, Pobol Y Cwm (if you don't mind subtitles), Brookside (if you don't mind watching old archives of a sadly defunct show) or The Arches (if you can stand to listen to radio) instead, as the storytelling & continuity of all trump Corrie/'Enders as they are now. I personally find Coronation St. impossible to watch due to slow pacing & poor acting, and I'm hate-watching 'Enders right now by gritting my teeth through the gaping plot holes - these aren't good years for either. If you didn't mind the dramas of a younger set I'd recommend the fun addictive Hollyoaks, campy & trashy as it is.

By the by, our period dramas (think Heartbeat, Downton, Peaky Blinders) and classic sitcoms (anything from the Two Ronnies, the Goon Squad, or the Comic Strip) are far superior to all the soaps, but by the sounds of it you're well aware of this and have enjoyed much British telly already. There are also many easy ways to enjoy foreign/European soaps (aka telenovelas) with the Internet now, and I daresay both Spain & Germany at least have had better serial dramas than England over the last decade or so.

Best of luck, let us know what you choose.

Forgot to add the BBC Scotland production River City. I don't watch it avidly and find the accents somewhat hard to understand at points, but it's worth a go if you're trying out new programmes.

Monarch Of The Glen was an amazing long-running Scottish weekly drama that ran in the late 90s-late 00s, so if you have an interest in Scottish culture and want a cozy Sunday in the archives pick that up.

R130 For the record, I'm not sold on The Kazemis myself, and generally find Carmel totally annoying. I chose Darius in my little scenario, because I just don't think the K-crew is going anywhere, and it could be fun to write the middle boy as the antithesis. Plus, given that he's in-between Kush and Shaki, he'd be age appropriate for Jonathan. .. But feel free to insert a new name. In fact, I'd be interested in alternatives to ponder, but I would prefer a guy who's connected to one of families on canvas, so he's not an island gay.

Carmel is your typical overbearing mother who can't accept that her kids are grown ups so she's inserting herself into their lives as much as possible .

R137 I would agree with that. But while I adored Zainab, I've never warmed to Carmel.

Keegan and Shaki sorted their misunderstanding more quickly & peacefully than anyone in EE history.

Jay doesn't think he's a Ginge. Ok.

Bernadette looks 25, not 15. She does have pretty eyes.

14 years ago on this day in EE: Sharon slept with her brother Dennis just as their notorious father was rising from the grave.

How far we've come.

And lift off for Ben fucking the son of his mother's rapist .

R140 Clair Norris (Bernadette) and Tilly Keeper (Louise) are both 20, you wouldn't think they were born the same year.

Neither of them look properly teenage.

LUBE job at The Arches - how apropos!

Anyone else notice the quickfire cutaway from gay intimacy to a needless aerial shot? Way to make us feel worthy.

Ben looked like he was bricking it. It would make a good bit of sense if he had a fear/arousal crosswire considering his background of abuse (Stella, bashers) and his ongoing bereavement process. Perhaps Ben's sexual behaviour of late deliberately has a riskier feel than Johnny's (although that's not hard). Or is this giving Creative too much credit?

Can't wait until Johnny runs into them together, he's going to meddle again and there will be major drama.

R88 Johnny was oozing green the couple of times he espied Ben cosy with Paul. As a friend and fellow gay he should have been beaming at their happiness and slipping them free drinks, but instead he scowled.

Time ran out to follow up a tri/angle and it was dropped after the Gavin plot kicked in, but jealousy was definitely initially seeded.

By the way, the white dotted smart-casual button-up that Luke stripped off Ben in the Arches...is it just me or does it look exactly the same as the one Johnny was wearing when he lost his virginity to Gianluca?

Funny, that.

The buttons on Ben's shirt weren't dark.

And the dots look more like wings

Who remember Astill playing the closeted "Dan Hamilton" on Holby? The out Malick who figured repressed Dan was gay would taunt Dan, calling him "Rugby Boy." During fisticuffs in the locker room, Dan couldn't deny it any longer and kissed him.

R127 how would you feel about Johnny interning with Ritchie (sp?), the notoriously bent lawyer in the Mitchell's pocket?

Whether played for comedy or straight (so to speak) a move like that creates great opportunities for both legal drama and interpersonal conflict, as dealing with a crooked woman like Ritchie as his superior would test Johnny's beliefs and principles to the limit. It would give him dimensions and eventually would probably lead him to develop some darkness. All this could arise, and without even touching on the thicker line this draws between him and Ben.

It would also just be cool to see the Ritchie character recurring onscreen. There's no women in any soap even a little like her.

R151 I love Ritchie too! .. I'm just not sure the current Johnny would be able to swim with the barracuda. (Hasn't he said he wants to practice "humanitarian" law?? He seems destined to answer phones at the Legal Aid Clinic.)

But if they did the proposed recast and tweeked the character personality in the process, I could easily see "Jonathan" returning to learn at the altar of Ritchie. Something like that would even work, if say, Phil and Mick get themselves in trouble with this new crime boss (Aidan Maguire), with Phil's attorney, Ritchie, agreeing to let Jonathan be her aide as she works to get charges against both of them dropped. Jonathan would probably be able to set his beliefs and principles aside if it meant getting dad out of jail.

Then put him in a legal aid clinic. As it stands right now he's pub furniture .

R145, yes, I've noticed the quick cut away to an high angle shot - they did it when Ben was in bed with Johnny too. You could barely tell what they are doing.

Another thing I don't like is how fast gay intimacy occurs - bit stereotypical to show Ben always getting down to it within seconds. This happened with Paul and Johnny too.

I wonder when the work of the new producer will show up, or has it already?

R153 I totally agree. It's telling that they refuse to show Johnny outside Albert Square, especially since they did all those scenes at the school with the teens; showed Lee countless times at the call center where he worked; went on special location with Michelle for her department store job; have the whole thing going at Weyland, etc. Heck, I think we even saw Abi at her vet office once.

There's no reason why we shouldn't be seeing Johnny at some kind of law-related job elsewhere. They missed a perfect opportunity to start something like than with Derek's case. They could have had Johnny bring Derek to some gay legal rights center where the cute manager would subsequently ask Young Carter if he'd like to apply for an internship or something.

Have we discussed Ted Reilly's near-brush with a Trans role here yet?

The way he tells it, he auditioned badly for the role of a recurring FTM person on 'Casualty' and didn't get the role. However, if you look up the 'Casualty' episodes featuring his proposed character (named Danni) on BBC Media Centre you will see Reilly listed as a cast member. Did he drop out or did they scrap him?

Not that it really matters why he didn't get that role; lucky for him he knew the Casting Director at EE and 'bumped into her' walking shamefaced out of his 'Casualty' audition and the rest is Gay history...

Jordan Coulson (who played Tommy Saunders, Jay's skirtchasing pickpocketing mate, back in March) had a one-off spot on Casualty in 2014, and was also in an episode of Hetty Feather as was Ted (both can be seen in a Showreel on his CV). Wonder if he and Ted share an agent?

Tommy would be welcome back at this point, given all the trauma coming down he line for the 20-somethings on the Square.

Second date .. with a subsequent hook-up.

[quote] (From Metro:) Luke is amused as Ben bigs himself up with achievements that aren’t actually his. Despite seeing through this, the pair end up in each others’ arms once more.

Oh, and I guess Phil invites Luke around to "meet the family." This ought to be good.

I think Tommy was brought in with a view to making him a regular character but the introduction of Keanu and the Taylors put the kibosh on that.

R158 at least Ben is getting some before the shit hits the fan.

R159 you could be right there, although I'm not certain why Tommy couldn't feature with the Taylors.

When Tommy didn't appear again in April I assumed it was because Kat/Alfie were returning with their little sprog also named Tommy in tow. That's just a guess though, I have no idea what really happened. Maybe Jord rubbed one of the veteran actors the wrong way, or they just couldn't afford to keep him. The Tommy character doesn't have blood ties to the Square but there are ways to write around such.

I keep going on about it but it's just such a shame Tommy Saunders wasn't kept in this year. When your young, fresh character shows up in Walford (I maintain he had one of the best debut scenes in the last decade) and is an instant hit with a hard-to-please crowd, surely you want to keep him around?

On a shallow note, he was also a few shades more attractive than the other youngsters on the Square.

Ben's a bit of a cheeky sod going for someone double his age but still fairly normal for Britain.

And Ben just got axed by the new producer . I hope they won't kill him off . I truly don't understand the decision making at the BBC

Harry Reid has been fired and Ben will be leaving Walford around the end of the year. No big loss. The idiot frauen at WW are shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you.

[quote] although I'm not certain why Tommy couldn't feature with the Taylors.

I don't really see funny boy Tommy getting nixed, because of the Taylors either. But I could see his character not getting picked up once the decision was made to bring "comic" Robbie back.

R165 I think we'd all of us have taken Tommy over Robbie. Does Rob have fans?

So, Reid's been future-endeavoured. Did think he was set up to be a Lifer like Adam & Leititia, what's going on? What did he do (or, not do) to get struck off so? The same thing happened to Strike & Labey, this culling of young gay characters is epidemic.

Shame, really. Reformed bit of 'rough Ben #5 is iconic as the spanna'-wielding little one, now. On the bright side, Ted coild get the boot too and Johnny leave with Ben for a Gay Christmas Happy Ending. A glimmer of light after a gloomy year.

I can see Charlie Wernham as Ben #6. He was a hot looking kid when he was on Hollyoaks.

R164 On this I totally agree with Walford Web . It's an idiotic decision . Ben is such a complex character with so much history to explore , you just don't get rid of a character like that in favor of some bland white bread like Johnny . I'm honestly pissed .

They're writing Martin & Kush with better m/m intimacy than Ben and his hookups. Maybe Execs look at Ben as a bit of a failed experiment, which is sad as well as untrue.

Johnny awkwardly serving his shooters, Chelle pawing through her dating app, Sonia having a slanging match in the street....this whole episode is ghastly. I feel sorry for Gethin, he's a nice Welsh fella who doesn't need all this. Also, Ben doesn't text that way, "hope you have a nice night" etc.

R166 I have no idea who Robbie appeals to. And on the relationship front, was the idea to eventually pair him with Donna? Don't know who else he'd be there for.

btw - I thought Strike basically wanted out himself (and quit).

Ben leaving is the last straw for me. I have no reason to watch anymore. I can't stand that annoying cry baby Johnny or the shitty actor who plays him.

Ben desperately wants to please his dad. He killed someone. He pretended to be straight. He started so many fights and always got beaten up. He's so angry, so full of self-pity, so weak.

I haven't always been the biggest fan of Reid (pointing to his tendency to overact at times), but this move is really shocking and quite disappointing.

Viewers are gutted.

Fingers crossed they don't kill him off or recast him, Harry made Ben his own and committed more than anyone else has. That's his role now, he has earned it.

Also hoping Ben gets a final kiss from Johnny before he goes, if nothing else. Even if no-one wants to admit it (because they hate the Carters, or Johnny, or Ted Reilly) the two characters were literally meant for each other, Endgame. The couple would have worked, but alas the plot failed them. So, let's leave that door slightly ajar, eh?

Steven gone-dead. Lauren gone. Abi gone. Ben gone. They're really doing a number on the twentysomething set.

I’m guessing that Ben and Luke fall for each other, Ben tries to kill JWB but Luke ends up dead, instead. Ben goes to prison.

SOC was desperate to get as many of the old characters back as possible and even introduced a 'faked death' scenario to get grimly dull Kathy back to the Square.

Getting rid of Ben is a huge error. Is the Square going to be completely de-gayed?

Jay is so fucking ugly and should go instead, same with Donna and those awful Taylors, except for Keanu who needs a Gay for Pay escort storyline.

Those awful octogenerians can go as well.

We need new, hot blood please!

R177 It was DTC who brought Kathy back to the square. Recall, she was resurrected in EE's live, 30th anniversary episode in February 2015. Her story began to unfold later that year (late summer) when he was still EP.

[quote] except for Keanu who needs a Gay for Pay escort storyline.

The "life model" plot seems so antiquated. .. Something more modern would be: Keanu does a posing and wank video for a website like "English Lads," which specializes in "straight" British boys. .. The video is meant to be a one-off, just to bring some money in; but when Karen's latest loan shark escapade goes awry, Keanu goes back to the studio looking for more work. Will he cross the line and do some man-on-man action? Or as you suggest, the producer could hook him up with a Gay for Pay escort service. He tells Keanu that based on the responses they've gotten to his video, he should get loads of clients.

I would LOVE a Gay for Pay storyline. It's never been done before on EE. Ben could get desperate one night and hire him for a treat by mistake.

[quote] I’m guessing that Ben and Luke fall for each other, Ben tries to kill JWB but Luke ends up dead, instead. Ben goes to prison.

R176 As long as we know Ben's set to go, I probably could get into that. .. But rather than death and prison, perhaps gay love could conquer all - with the story being that Luke ends up betraying his evil daddy for the boy he loves. And in the end, Ben exits Walford to travel the world with his posh lover.

Ted Reilly is not the strongest actor in the cast by any stretch, but Johnny has also not gotten a story in his entire time since his return, so the amount of indignation about him still being in the cast is perplexing to me. I almost just want Johnny to depart with Ben on a trip to America or something at New Year's so I can stop reading people constantly moaning about Johnny as if this one character/actor is somehow doing massive damage to EastEnders when the rot in this programme is so deep and pervasive that I'm not even sure it can be corrected.

Harry Reid's Ben will be missed. This decision is a massive mistake.

JWB seemed amused that Luke has a "new boy." But he also seemed to be mocking his son's activity as well - as if he was trying to get a rise out him - before the Chairman cooly interjected with his line about "variety being the spice of life." Thoughts?

at first I was confused at why they were getting rid of all the gay characters 🤔 but then I realised that Ben's storylines have always been miserable. Pretending to be straight, having his boyfriend murdered. Maybe him leaving the square is for the best, rather than having a gay character suffer all the time. Maybe he gets to walk off into the sunset for the time being?

R184 call it Master Villain magnanimity.

For The Chairman to suggest he is comfortable with Luke's sexuality while JWB sneers is a way to differentiate the two men, and to show The Chairman considers himself above but not beyond carnal squabbles of his pawns. This may be entirely accidental but it is pertinent that 'Variety is the spice of Life' is taken from William Cowper's poem 'The Task', written in praise of the virility of men in their prime (if it interests: Cowper was an abolitionist and became a friend & fan of his contemporary Jane Austen in later years).

The Chairman might have cruel designs & a stone-cold heart, but still shows tolerance befitting his class status, a benign appreciation for life's pleasures and a cool gentility. From this one line we know he is not a bigot nor a bullying creep like James.

R177 Ben's departure earmarks Jay & Donna both for an exit, unless tokenism retains Donna and the unlikely Lad Jay usurps Ben as the Mitchell's next-in-line over Denny or the absent Mark.

R168 is absolutely on the money, there's no need to keep bringing in so many 'names' and vintage characters only to overpay them and oust the young to make room. Unless this herd-thinning leads to a youth spinoff in the vein of Hollyoaks, the departure of so many youths from the Square is going to cripple the show.

[quote] I just want Johnny to depart with Ben on a trip to America or something at New Year so I can stop reading people constantly moaning about Johnny, as if this one character is somehow doing massive damage to EastEnders when the rot in this programme is so deep and pervasive.

Precisely r183. The ire toward Johnny/Ted is now scapegoating, and the vulnerable cast members cannot keep shouldering the blame for lax writing and production.

A romantic 'sunset' ending for both characters would make for a refreshing tonal shift and would be great for ratings. Fans still talk about the one John-Paul McQueen & Craig Dean got on Hollyoaks. While we aren't enjoying a romance on that scale on EastEnders right now, youthful idealism could still pull through, no?

Aaron Sidwell's farewell Insta-post to Harry is just the best. The hashtags, savagery.

So much could have been done with Steven & Ben as relatives, waste of both charas.

[quote] aaronsidwell1988: This stylish mother f**ker is gonna smash it. Big future ahead my brother. #GayBen #Family #IanBealeIsABadLuckCharm

I always hoped that Joey Branning would do a gay for pay storyline. Or Jason Grimshaw on Coronation Street. Or Ross on Emmerdale. Or Ziggy on Hollyoaks.

Keanu is about to become an escort. Whether they have the nerve to do a gay escort angle isn’t clear. But more likely a ‘comedy’ posh older woman storyline

I just don’t see chemistry between Ben and Johnny. And neither, I think, do the producers/writers because if they did see it they might have done something about it.

[quote] guessing that Ben and Luke fall for each other, Ben tries to kill JWB but Luke ends up dead, instead. Ben goes to prison.

Oh, no, I'm not having this, I can't deal with Ben getting banged up again now he's been redeemed and paid his dues. Nope.

I ditto that, R191. I see them as mates, perhaps even rivals for the same love interest, but not lovers themselves. I never felt it.

R191 it's natural to feel this, we've barely seen them together despite their canon friends/confidantes relationship.

Let's see: they had the fallout from Paul to get to know each other (despite knowing each other pretty well beforehand, but under new writers old canons don't matter, apparently); then they had their one special two-handed episode as a will-they-won't-they to keep shippers quiet for 10 minutes (only to predictably let them down); and since then they've had a handful of 10 second pub chats. That's it. On paper they're meant to have an active, close friendship and this should be obvious to someone new to the show from a couple episodes. This is nothing to do with the acting, fellas.

Reilly & Reid do have chemistry in the eyes of some viewers so it can't be nonexistent, and they were willing to play Ben & Johnny as lovers, so if the crack team of writers couldn't do anything with history + chemistry + enthusiasm...well. It's not even like it would have been a difficult plot, not now and especially not years ago when Johnny arrived. That the ball was dropped on this very obvious, very easy and potentially very popular romance s/l is a big embarrassment.

Reference to Mick & Linda shagging ....on shagpile....shudder. Like, gag me with a SPEWN.

Keanu's got an excellent rack and we know that thanks to his tees. He'd get more than £20p/h escorting.

Masood's returning - apparently to introduce us to two new family members. From BBC:

[quote] Masood was last seen heading off to Pakistan, with his son Kamil, to reunite with his ex-wife Zainab. However, he soon finds himself back in Walford as he tries his best to settle a couple of family members – who the audience have yet to meet - into Albert Square.

Hope there's a hot, young male.

I wonder if Shabnam #2 might be returning. I don’t think the actress has done a whole lot since leaving EE.

Shabnam would shake up the Kush-Denise thing, which would be fine by me. But we've met Shabnam. This sounds like brand new characters.

I'd just prefer if we could keep Ben . I can't understand that decision , there is virtually no reason for it .

Characters I hate and would love to see go:

Carmel Dry roasted Denise Jay All the Taylors except Keanu Kim

Characters I like but who are axed:

Ben Abbie

R153 .. Yeah, like in Tuesday's episode. Here we know Johnny's in the pub, as he was there to welcome Mick and Linda back, but when we get to the Luke and Ben date scenes, they don't even bother to have Johnny witness or serve them, or make any kind of comment on the new romantic duo. That was left to others, and he was totally MIA.

[quote] Tuesday's episode. Here we know Johnny's in the pub, as he was there to welcome Mick and Linda back, but when we get to the Luke and Ben date scenes, they don't even bother to have Johnny witness or serve them, or make any kind of comment.

Yes, this, take all my gelt. This, this, it's exactly THIS that is tanking the written dialogue and ruining group scenes. They're all meant to be characters in a round space interacting and reacting to one another, things they see happen. This is basic theatre and one of the longest-running television dramas in the English-speaking world can't get it right.

Johnny should have been front-and-centre having a gander at this date, whether jealously or eagerly. There's no way a boy as nosy and overbearing as Johnny (Linda's son) would stand off or outright ignore the proceedings. If Donna could be arsed to turn up to Ben's date and interfere then where the bleeding hell was Gay Hall Monitor, Johnny Carter? This could have been played any number of ways and without any difficult changes or contrivances. But we got nothing.

Reilly did at least think to slap an anonymous Ron Jeremy-looking punter on the back in reaction to his laughing at Johnny's gift bobble-hat. There's background chatter going on, but it's never relevant or scripted and we can hear it.

Johnny is being used to a minimum because the actor is very, very weak-simple as that.

R188 Sidwell also spent this week breaking the news of his role in the 2018 U.K. tour of WICKED (playing the part of Fiyero).

That shirt Reid's wearing in Sidwell's photo at R188 ... Did EE let him take Ben's special 'date shirt' home as a complimentary parting gift for axing him?

After 9500 votes, the poll at Digital Spy on axing Ben:

80% say it's the wrong decision.

Sadly I doubt the idiots in charge care .

Earlier this year, it sounded like Oliver Kent said he wanted to maintain the stride the show's made with gay characters while figuring out how to do a better a job representing bisexuality? .. Yet now, Steven's dead, Ben's axed, and we're stuck with dull Sonia sticking the knife to Poor Tina as she makes lame jokes to her former lover about hoping to have a "duet" with music teacher, Gethin.

Talk really is cheap.

Bi Sonia is all over a guy at the moment and Tina is a non character and has been for ages. Ben is going, Johnny is just an extra. The de-gaying is hard to watch.

I think the gay contingent will simply be reconstituted over time.

From the BBC:

[quote] Luke does his best to impress Phil and Sharon, but is left stunned when he makes the connection that Kathy is Ben’s mum.

I'd like to see Luke in something other than a three-piece suit and tie.

R209/R210 a poster over at DigitalSpy forums has suggested that this swathe cut through gay characters & screentime is a clear-out in response to findings of a critical LGBT representation report. Interesting to know if this alleged report is in the public domain, there was no name given for it..

The OP who brought this to the table has it that watchdogs investigating the cultural diversity on the programme came away unhappy with the present gay characters & storylines, ie.: two murderous former closet cases (one of whom was a victim of conversion therapy and is now dead); one former abuse victim typed as a bimbo; one convicted (albeit wrongfully) sex offender; absentee parent Sonia; ..and then young Johnny, all on his own on the side of good since poor Paul lost his life to bigotry.

While the OP provided no details (casting dubiety), such a dossier would somewhat explain the disappointing trajectory of gay representation on EE over the last year.

R206 the Casting Dept. will find it unimaginably difficult to recast Ben if they replace Reid (and here's hoping they don't).

The Ben Mitchell character as he is now is extraordinarily complex in history & persona, operating at high emotional 'gears'. Ben is a messy, voilatile & even campy role demanding a slightly offbeat & nasty sense of humour, that doesn't veer too far into menacing (as he's sympathetic now). He must be a nightmare to play; alternately despairing & hopeful, bully & victim, a capable 'lad' & a damaged man. It's not a 'cool', 'sexy' or even pleasant role to take on. Reid got inside of Ben and it will be hard to find another who fits so well.

R203 this discussion is oft-repeated, but here it is once more for the newcomers: Reilly is grass-green and not a heavy-lifter, but not worse than his predecessor and in fact better-cast in the part of Johnny.

Strike is no DeNiro either, but as he was gorgeous (and was romancing Dyer's daughter) he got away with laziness and twisting the character to suit. Reilly doesn't have the crutch of a power connection or sexual allure, so must limp until he learns to stride (which he may, given a chance).

R213 I agree with you on the description of Ben . That's also why I don't get this decision at all . You don't just create a character that complex with so many angles to play out of thin air . Ben is basically a story tellers wet dream . I really really wish they'd reconsider this . It's weird . Ben isn't your typical soap hunk with a six pack , he's not always nice and pleasant , he can be boneheaded and stupid but at the same time he makes me care about him , a lot more than I do about people I'm supposed to root for . And Harry Reid makes that character work . Maybe this makes me sound frauish but WHY ! Give me one good reason .

I don’t think he ever will be given a chance. He’ll just limp along until he’s pushed off the cliff.

Harry Reid is no Olivier. When Ben is angry his acting is wince inducing. He can easily be replaced, hopefully with someone with actual “sexual allure.” I like my idea of Charlie Wernham. I can see him as Kathy and Phil’s son.

R196 shame Tamwar isn't coming back with Nancy. Those two left holes that haven't been properly filled (the bruiserette and the genius), and as unique personalities they freshened up their stale family units. Shabnam in the other hand felt true-to-life, but that made her extremely boring. What other relatives does Mas even have? And he's hardly a fan-favorite so why a return?

R200 Kim while entertaining is too goofy for words at this point, and is wasting the shadowy Vincent character utterly. She only really works well with Denise, who barely interacts with her family now, anyway. Pearl is an adorable baby girl, though.

R205 there's not much else in Ben's wardrobe decent enough to bother nicking, apart from the grey jersey with the epaulette buttons or the designer specs. Reid probably went to a cast party straight from work. Does anyone know when he films his final scenes, if he hasn't already?

R211 probably the minority opinion here, but Luke is not at all attractive. The shiny craggy skin, gangly limbs, the awkward way of walking into rooms, the staring gaze and ghostly brow...all read creepy. His 'tally-ho' personality is incredibly annoying, and it's galling to agree with Phil/Mick on that (or anything) but it's true. Luke teasing of Ben in the pub was not in the least bit amusing and any other young gay working-class guy like Ben would be rolling his eyes in response, not blushing. Sharon fawning over Luke's guns was funny, however.

Weird episode.

Bex's new sexual drives are frightening but that is how teen girls grow. Gethin has catalysed her growth into a dark female! As has Stacey to Lily, apparently. Jealousy always works well in the soap format.

The life drawing class teacher is a sweetheart. Of course lovely Ingrid showed up to Keanu's first modelling stint by coincidence. Can she develop a character beside chasing him & Jack+brood around? Karen doesn't let debt get her down.

Supportive Dad!Phil is almost as uncomfortable as Mick/Linda and their 'therapy'. Guess a renewed sexlife is distracting them from their son's graduation (he only got a 2:1 lol) and chasing up this Grafton paperwork so full of as it is of legal holes. Enter Johnny?

So Whitney moved in with Stace...when did that happen, again? Didn't think they were mates. Where is Woody living? Bipolar or not, Stacey must have high cortisol with her front door banging open every 2 seconds.

Sonia is only making a token effort to stop this tangled web with Gethin. Martin should probably stop heckling men he doesn't know in public places. Kush should probably stop, too (and should cut his mother out).

Ben is acting more OOC than ever (maybe Harry just threw his hands up after getting fired). Luke was right to question Ben inviting him round for tea since they've only shagged twice (in a garage) and shared a pint. Ben is more a boyfriend to Johnny, at least they once made it to a bed. If Ben is swamped with work at the Arches, how does he take off to the Vic with a regularity?

Louise & Jay are conspicuous by absence. Same goes for Abi, in a strange way. It's also noticeable that Honey is occasionally in the background of a shot. WHET her?

Honey’s been sidelined after BBC bosses put the kibosh on a proposed storyline where she would have an affair with Jack.

Hopefully, they keep Honey and Billy around long enough for Will to come out in four or five years.

R211, why, when you can have Johnny in a mortarboard & graduation gown?

Is it me or have Ben & Johnny both become much better-looking over the last 3 weeks? Ben is a little bit slimmer & tanner with this more confident gleam in his eye, and Johnny's put on much needed weight and his formerly-atrocious hair has grown out.

Johnny is kind & switched-on, but 'Sausage' doesn't exactly live up to any of those other grand epithets you listed, Linda.

Jay inspecting his nails during Ben's ranting & raving is hysterical. It's about time Jay took a step back from Ben's silly vendettas. But Ben is right this time, Luke W-B is a smarmy invertebrate for leading him on. The 'bit'a'rough' speech was absolutely epic. The Chairman looks like a Spitting Image puppet but his detachment is something to behold.

Even matronly traditional nice-bird Honey's got a wandering eye and fancies Keanu's body, love that. Ingrid & Keanu are great together and should give a romance a go, in spite of creepy Jack trying to keep the poor girl under celibate lock & key.

Bex & Gethin mindgaming each other is so fucking weird. Their flirtations is all getting quite Les Liaisons Dangereuses.

Do Social Services really ever rock up unannounced with coppers for back-up? Never heard of that.

Luke didn't really lead Ben on. I'm sure he would have continued their relationship, had he not found out that Ben's mother was the woman his father raped.

Anyone else noticed that the actor kid playing baby Arthur is way too dark skinned to be a product of very white Stacey and half Turkish Kush?

Their kid would have had light olive skin like Zayn Malik, not like a terracotta skinned Indian. The baby actor is way darker than Kush. Maybe he could have played Kush and Shabnam's baby, but not Kush and Stacey's.

R223, Mrs. Peel on WW has raised this issue to the point it’s practically a college thesis.

Shit, I don't want to have anything in common with Mrs Peel. But at least it has been noted. EE will disappear him for a while and hire a lighter child for a few months along the line.

Tina went on the rob and pinched a Gryffindor costume for Johnny's mock-ceremony. Smh.

.He should turncoat and work for Weyland after public humiliation like this. Linda & Mick want slappin' dahn.

[quote] Reid can easily be replaced, hopefully with someone with actual “sexual allure.” I like my idea of Charlie Wernham. I can see him as Kathy and Phil’s son.

Wernham is better suited to comedy, where his roots are. He was entertaining in 'School of Comedy' and later in 'Bad Education' with gay-adjacent comedian Jack Whitehall. Talented as he may be, the Ben role doesn't call for Charlie's specific skill-set.

He looks like Reid and shares the Kent accent with him, however (and why *do* they keep casting Essex boys as the cockney Ben?) so expect the Casting Office will probably shout him an audition.

R227, I taught in north east London for years and the accent the kids have there is not Cockney anymore, although it is distinctive. You need to go to Essex to get the old Cockney accent now.

Luke will try to get back in Ben's good books only to con him out of The Arches somehow, won't he?

I hope Johnny finds some flaw in the Vic leasehold paperwork his Mum & Dad will inevitably make him do and tells Ben to put these Wilmott-Browns on notice. They make a good pair of crime-stoppers.

[quote] Luke will try to get back in Ben's good books only to con him out of The Arches somehow, won't he?

I suppose. .. Yet, I could also see Luke eventually getting fed up with the abuse, deciding to screw daddy over and wreck the evil plan some way.

Since we know Ben is exiting, I actually wouldn't mind a flash of gay heroics with Luke choosing Ben. And in the end, the two lovers are seen driving off into the sunset together in that Sapphire Blue Porsche 911 Turbo S Cabriolet (top down) - smiling as they go.

I’d like that, too, R230.

It looked like Johnny was humouring & condescending to his Dad in the Vic just now. Which is as it should be.

Ben's taking this breakup hard, struggling to see past Paul's ghost and remember the good in himself.

Keanu is beloved by the whole Square, even by lads who might very well be jealous of his looks.

Kush should just give it up and seduce Martin, he's fooling no-one.

Mick is fine with Johnny's soul-mate being bisexual, black, Chinese, Mexican, a trans or an alien. That's...good to know?

That Ben and Jay scene in their kitchen--one standing behind the other, barely any daylight between them. I swear when Ben said "maybe there is just one person you're meant to fall in love with" I thought he was about to turn to Jay and there would be that long soap stare into each other's eyes before a kiss duff duff. Their positioning, body language, dialogue and tone of voice during that scene dwelt, as is so often the case between these two, in the penumbra betwixt those of friends and lovers. It reminded me of their scene in the Cokers' kitchen right after Jay returned to Walford (Ben having leaped into Jay's arms at the end of the previous episode), in which their interaction was redolent of a couple's argument.

I think Jay needs to be paired with a (female) love interest and Ben needs to spend more time unloading his issues on Johnny. Or they could continue having these characters spend all their time together (usually alone), looking deeply into each other's eyes, touching each other on the face to emphasise the points they're making, whilst rarely if ever attempting to meet other people despite being in their early twenties. You know, like all platonic friends do.

Ben and Jay deliberately queerbait when they act. Jay doesn't ping at all though and I still remember how he was Abby's bf for years and then got entangled with the 15 year old.

I don't like Jay or his storylines and would love to see him, Denise and Carmel leave the soap instead of Ben, Abby and Lauren.

Looks like Linda had some kind of cervical or ovarian cancer and it's coming back after her marathon sex sessions with Mick (cringe).

Harry Reid really does have beautiful skin, even in HD.

I don't know if it's a Spanish tan, better rest/less stress (now he doesn't have Ben to worry about :() or just food he's been eating R237 but you're right, Harry's complexion has taken on a healthier glow of late.

[quote] Jay needs to be paired with a (female) love interest and Ben needs to spend more time unloading his issues on Johnny.

[quote] Ben and Jay deliberately queerbait when they act. Jay doesn't ping at all though and I still remember how he was Abby's bf for years.

Blame whoever is sorting out blocking. As for 'baiting', it's probably accidental. This chemistry is what you get when you pair two people who are close offscreen in a lot of scenes together; we're seeing Harry & Jamie's friendship seeping through the cracks of their acting, which, unfortunately, is wrecking havoc on what we're supposed to be seeing. Jay should be able to stay angry with Ben for all the shitty things he does, but since Jamie is so close a mate to Harry offset this sometimes doesn't seem to stick like it should. The fact that Harry is leaving and Jamie isn't is compounding this issue, no doubt....

Ben should spend time with Johnny more often even in just a friend/comrade context, and we should see this happening. Johnny has proven to Ben that he can be trusted with 'heavy weather' in a relationship and that he'll always be there when Ben calls (as he was during the Paul debacle, and after). Knowing this it is more appropriate & realistic that Ben would go to Johnny first to talk about his ills, especially when it comes to gay love & sex (where Jay & Donna just take the piss and don't get it). It also irks that Johnny has not yet gone to Ben with his troubles. They're mates, aren't they? They talk, right? So, why are we seeing a one-sided friendship? Ben barely has friends outside his family and struggles to keep any relationship intact so it's ridiculous that he'd let what he has with Johnny die. That goes double for Jonathan.

This is why writing Abi out but keeping Jay is a strange decision. These two have an enormous amount of history as well. Even if they aren't endgame romantically it is a weird idea that Abi could just so easily up & leave Jay, the man who was the boy who was her first love and still is a close friend. Their paths did go in different directions and they did fall for other people but they are still in each other's lives. At minimum they should have a long 'goodbye' scene between the two of them to recap their relationship.

I personally loved Jay coupled with Lola (back when Paul & Ben were still struggling to make it work), and remember thinking they were an ideal match. Except for the whole raising Lexie, thing, of course.

R234 Mick talked 'soulmates' with Johnny, Jay talked about them with Ben...same episode. Foreshadowing 101.

'quote] Since we know Ben is exiting, I actually wouldn't mind a flash of gay heroics with Luke choosing Ben. And in the end, the two lovers are seen driving off into the sunset together in that Sapphire Blue Porsche 911 Turbo S Cabriolet (top down) - smiling as they go.

Gorgeous, uplifting image, but you...do realise what show you're watching? Remember how Paul died?

This will play out with more Wangst & backstabbery than you can shake a stick it, as a major Ben s/l and an Exit plot no less. It wouldn't shock if it culminated in a Jacobean-style bloodbath now it's come out that Mick & Phil have a part in the takeover plot. Considering groundwork from this week and general continuity, it wouldn't surprise if Johnny gets mired in this somehow as well.

Maybe Ben gets blood on his hands and runs to the Vic for temporary sanctuary from the Old Bill. Picture this: it's like 3am, a week before Christmas Day. Ben is looking like a walking Tarantino movie after killing a W-B (idk which) in a brutal altercation to protect his mother, and has run for shelter around the back of the Vic as a first reaction. Needing to plan his escape and get off the streets before Coppers catch up to him he texts Johnny a simple 'let me up', and of course technophile student-insomniac Johnny who sleeps with his phone in hand runs down to lets him in out of the dark & cold. On seeing his one-time lover in this state Johnny doesn't know whether to be more horrified, distraught or aroused. They don't say a word but the tension is off-the-chart, heightening with the scent of Ben's anger & fear & adrenaline and the iron in The Chairman's/James'/Lukes' (?) blood all over Ben's clothes. There is an unspoken understanding of what's happened: that Ben will either have to go to prison by morning or go on the lamb probably never to return; the knowledge that this could be their last night together; the fire suddenly roaring between them. They draw close like magnets and kiss fiercely with both their tears intermingling, and Johnny drags him to bed to hide him, give him an alibi and give him succor for whatever comes next. Johnny is whispering something against Ben's mouth that sounds like, "please don't go, please don't leave..."...

Cut to the next morning and Johnny wakes with a chill from his open window, alone but for blood staining his sheets & skin. He retches into a desolate sob, head in his hands. We then catch up to Ben already on a train speeding away, face hidden and shuddering breath. Duff-Duff.

[quote] Gorgeous, uplifting image, but you...do realise what show you're watching? Remember how Paul died?

Yeah, R240, I certainly have no delusions and always remember I'm watching EE. .. But I also recall that Christian and Syed were given a happy (if not sappy) ending, and when Johnny left on his Vespa to reunite with Gianluca in Italy, I assume we were supposed to be smiling for him (if not laughing at him) as he rode off.

Mick's face when Linda confessed was so void. Has Dyer forgotten how to act? Linda apologised to Mick (why?!) saying she "didn't want to make [him] angry". Her grovelling is disturbing on many levels.

Pray we aren't in for a classic Dyer rant of Old to open next episode. But at least Mick could cross Hypocrisy off his list of faults if he did outright call her a lying c***. We already know that's what he's thinking.

'They draw close like magnets and kiss fiercely with both their tears intermingling, and Johnny drags him to bed to hide him, give him an alibi and give him succour for whatever comes next. Johnny is whispering something against Ben's mouth that sounds like, "please don't go, please don't leave..."... '

Hello, Emily Bronte!

I think they'd have to do a lot of lead up for that to happen. Johnny hasn't shown any kind of unrequited love for Ben so far. Jay is more likely to whisper 'please don't leave' at this point.

Great comments, R238. I completely agree on Ben/Johnny. As far as we know, Johnny is Ben's only gay friend (Johnny's probably better off in that regard since he has Tina and whoever he knows from uni), and they've been in each other's orbits since 2014. He was Ben's main help during one of the worst times of his life. But the show really makes a habit of dropping these valuable linkages. There was at least that scene a week or two ago in which Ben and Johnny were sat making bitchy comments at the QV bar. I wish we could see Ben confide in Johnny about Luke soon.

I hope Abi comes back in a year or so for Max's exit. I sort of get axing her right now because she's a tad ridiculous, but I hope the door is left open for her to return soon as I like her campiness, dubious morality combined with vulnerability and links with many other characters. Not to mention the interesting fact of her child. Lauren I find a complete bore so I'm not really bothered what happens with her.

Ben and Abi going does make me wonder what's to be done with Jay. I feel like he's a character in a bit of a rut and could maybe do with being rested as well...although I also think it could be good for his development as a character to have stories while Ben isn't in the picture. On the other hand, if Jay is written out for a couple years, Jamie Borthwick might take a gay role and get his kit off.

[quote] I think they'd have to do a lot of lead up for that to happen.

I agree R243 and think we'd be more likely to see Johnny hook up with a Mexican boy or an alien.

[quote] On the other hand, if Jay is written out for a couple years, Jamie Borthwick might take a gay role and get his kit off.

To snag a gay role where his kit is off, Borthwick might need to hit the gym during those couple years.

[quote] I think they'd have to do a lot of lead up for that to happen. Johnny hasn't shown any kind of unrequited love for Ben so far.

🙈🤣 hon, it took Sausage literally 5 seconds to catch feelings for Danny The Walford Wonder and once that happened he waited for a year (just to get one snog and then mugged off?) THEN after that this exhausting little binch met Gianluca like twice and within a month he emigrated just to keep him.

His behaviour in sexual relationships is off-the-scale Extra. Johnny's booksmart sure, but he just has no wisdom or judgement when it comes to men and does really stupid shit for 'love'. He'll drop everything he's doing if he thinks he's fallen for someone and he is susceptible to Cupid's arrows to say the least.

And since Johnny has shown lust and affection for Ben in the past, he probably has caught feelings again and it only hasn't been revealed yet because the time for maximum dramatic impact is yet to come.

We're still all hoping for a reconsideration of Reid's axeing, but until that happens DigitalSpy presents: 7 Potential Exits for Ben Mitchell come Christmastime...

We've mostly discussed Theory #4 on this list, Ben attacking the Wilmott-Browns and then doing a runner to avoid prison. But we haven't considered some of their other theories, including: Ben deciding to reunite with Lola to finally be a father to Lexi; Ben escaping the Square BEFORE any Agg kicks off and going to live with Pam & Les; or a Jay/Ben spinoff for BBC3 (10/10 would watch, can Johnny come too?)

How could there be a BBC3 spin-off? Isn’t BBC3 just online now and operating on a tiny budget?

Based on what we've got in front of us, to me, the only exit on that list that sounds plausible is #4 and variations on it.

Well done, DL!

We guessed on this thread that Keanu's life model career would lead him to a more lucrative job in escorting and tonight he accepted a card from a frisky gay boy and has phoned the Prince Charming escort agency for an interview. Looks like he will start with women and maybe move into Gay for Pay.

"a frisky gay boy" ???

They seemed to go overboard to make it clear that "Finch" escorts women, dates girlfriends, and has kids to support.

I wasn't paying that much attention, R252 - my husband hates EE and kept chatting to me over the top of it. He looked like a cute, frisky gay boy but I stand corrected.

EE did their usual SJW-ing by showing that even the prospect of escorting can interfere with your mainstream relationship. They also have a long running theme of how people without jobs can't afford to have relationships, which was evident here and isn't exactly the case in real life, sadly.

R249 E20, the experimental teen spinoff of EE, was shown on BBC3 in 2010 and is still available to watch at their online hub.

It was written by the teens starring on the show themselves as part of an arts-outreach initiative and episodes were very short (rarely exceeding 15 minutes), but even in its rough-and-ready brevity it still won some admirers among young viewers.

If a little show about scabby Dagenham kids like Zsa-Zsa Carter & Fatboy drew enough attention to run for a couple of years on the Internet, a 20-something version with already-established characters couldn't do worse and wouldn't be a waste of time.

Incidentally, E20 was developed and exec-produced by none other than John Yorke.

I haven't watched Eastenders in years, think it's still on one of my local PBS stations in NYC.

There weren't too many good looking guys on Eastenders, I used to think Sanjay was somewhat attractive. He was played by Deepak Verma. I remember the woman who played his wife Gita (Shobu Kapoor, a few years ago, I saw her in a movie with Kal Penn, she played his mother) looked at least 15-20 years older than Sanjay! It was such an odd pairing. Gita's sister, Meena ,was good looking, she had an affair with Sanjay.

Shirley just laid down the law to Linda, missed herself . Finally someone called out the Carter's nauseating bullshit, and it was the hardest nut in the Square no less.

Still think Shirley would have been a better partner for Linda than Mick. Henry & Bright have excellent chemistry and always have, while Dyer just doesn't have believable chemistry with any woman at all.

I'm waiting for Michelle to hire a male escort to make Tom think she has a new, younger man in her life, and course, the escort turns out to be Keanu.

Or, he'll show up as the designated male stripper at Whitney's bachelorette party.

Speaking of Whitney, she seems to be behaving the same way with Woody that she did with Lee. Instead of spending money on wedding venues, maybe they should figure out where they're going to live first?

Whitney should be having the most low key wedding ever after all the fuss she made about her wedding to Lee last year. They should go and do it abroad and just come back with a fait accompli rather than expect everyone to go to the trouble of buying presents and outfits.

Who is Lily's dad, remind me? She looks very ethnic, more like the child of Kush than the actual Sri Lankan child of Kush.

Stacey would never have decided to have a third child with on just one market trader's wage. She had an actual spaz attack today, which isn't actually a symptom of bi polar, but, whatever.

R261 Lily's dad is Whitney's half-brother, "Ryan Malloy."

Thanks R262.

So is Stace epileptic now?

A third child is going to be just too much. They should give Arthur to Kush and Denise.

Lacey Turner was particularly excellent in tonight’s episode.

Stacy had a seizure as a result of extreme stress. That's not epilepsy.

She's complaining of frequent headaches, and is probably a heartbeat away from stroking out.

Having another child on a whim is really a bad choice, especially with her history.

I'm guessing Stacey has preclampsia/eclamplsia. One of the key symptoms is headaches, and it can lead to seizure.

Ruby Allen as played by Louisa Lynott could (should) return after Christmas to rescue Stace from the fatal perils of Fraudom.

It's easily possible that by now Ruby has taken over her late father Johnny's firm and is now a Mob Boss (and a Lesbian, of course) at just 30 years old.

Maybe Rubes returns in 2018 to scope out her dear old Dad's last territory and see if can be taken back. While cruising Albert Square, could it be she chances across her former best-friend Stace struggling to hold it together?

They would collapse into each other's arms in relief to see each other again after all these years, and with her connections and cash Ruby vows to help Stacey out of her struggles any way she can.

They grow closer, remember buried feelings, lesbian love-affair etc. Then Ruby's Mob hyenas start to close in on the bones of Walford (after Weyland have picked them) and Stacey is put in a dilemma...

Bi polar disorder can lead to seizures and epilepsy, who knew? They are probably flagging it up.

I hate the character of wizened Carmel with the fury of a thousand suns. Every time she is on the screen I bridle and cringe. Why is she being kept when the likes of Abi and Ben are going?

Fat Jac Jossa is going to have to lose weight if she wants to be employed outside EE. No roles for plump young actresses.

I think Ruby should return but the role should be recast. Lytton still looks 12 years old.

She needs to have that lip condition checked out, especially since she's got freckles.

Remember when Sean Slater chucked Johnny Allen's ashes at Ruby? Classic Eastenders.

Ruby is a strong choice for a 2018 return as is Chrissie Watts. How about Carly Wicks/Carter as well? She could work at the Arches to fill the mechanic's position that Ben will be leaving, and could galvanise the remaining Carters into some kind of interesting action. Her tense relationship with Shirley is guaranteed drama. Does Carly even know her brother is a rapist?

R267 Ruby left the Square in scorn, and the Slaters were the ones to see her off. Ruby is not a friend of Stacey and would have no qualms bulldozing the Fowler's house or Martin's stall if her heart desired it or a nefarious Mob takeover demanded it.

I really don't want to see old characters like Ruby and Janine re-activated.

The Square needs some more hotness, especially in the 20s and 30s generations.

Luke wants another chance with Ben. .. But is his pursuit now part of the grand scheme, or is he just incapable of heeding Uncle Hugo's warning to show some self-control?

Unpopular opinion maybe but I don't find Ben and Luke very believable as a pairing (yet, at least). Maybe there wasn't enough buildup or maybe the chemistry between the actors is off. Walford Web and Digital Spy forums are both hugely keen on this story but I think there's an element of pent-up thirst for gay content causing people to rate this couple more than they should. Also, obviously, it's hard to get too excited about it when we know Ben is leaving and Luke and the rest of his family are temporary.

Soaps love a star-crossed lovers story so I expect that Ben and Luke will go in that direction, with Luke eventually choosing Ben over his family.

Carly is widely regarded to have been a nothing character. She was only on as long as she was because Tony Jordan was committed to the Wicks family. I doubt she’d ever return on a regular basis.

Janine is a true EE icon among the younger set. She’ll definitely be back as long as Charlie Brooks is willing to play her.

Concur, R275.

There is low chemistry between Reid/Anstis in my eyes although many disagree with me, their vibe reads nervous intern/boss or son/dad more than lovers. Luke always looks exasperated or confused by Ben in a familial way, while Ben just looks like a rabbit in headlights in his presence (too unpleasantly reminiscent of how the character used to react to others as a child...). I get red flags from this pairing, big time. I don't blame the performers for this, however. How much can you do with this given such limited time as a few minutes a week?

You're right that we can't invest in these two even in spite of the scant connection, as there is clearly no onscreen future there. The Reveal has come out too soon and therefore killed any momentum for the suspense part of the equation. We're supposed to care about a 'love' between the two because of a bit of saucy age-gap sex and some juicy backstory tidbit that's actually fairly nauseating to ponder too long. They don't know each other deeply well and this can't change inside of 6-8 weeks. Best case scenario, one of them 'heel-turns' to surprise viewers.

[quote] Soaps love a star-crossed lovers story so I expect that Ben and Luke will go in that direction, with Luke eventually choosing Ben over his family.

I hope against hope that this won't happen, clichéd ass-pull sap is as bad as regressive melodrama for representation. At least the latter is good Christmas drama. Suppose it would be a bit much to kill Luke on Boxing Day considering Paul only snuffed it a year ago, though.

Also, forgive the contention but aren't Ben & Johnny the star-crossed lovers? They from families with a bitter rivalry (more currently seeded than the Wilmott-Brown/Mitchell one) and have had their relationship frustrated at various points by misfortune, separation, miscommunications and so on. Luke literally met Ben a month ago and knows nothing about his troubles of late...or ever, really.

[quote] Also, forgive the contention but aren't Ben & Johnny the star-crossed lovers?

That would seem to be the view obsessed shippers try to sell, but personally I've never seen-felt Ben and Johnny as such. And this should have become very clear earlier this year after they actually had sex, but then didn't follow through with anything -- not because some external force was pulling them apart (the hallmark of being star-crossed), but rather because they're just not that into each other.

FTR - So far I'm not entirely sold on Ben and Luke myself. I guess I'm just glad that it looks like Reid will have something to do prior to his exit. I also think part of the problem is the rushed feel to their relationship. And on that front, I think it's more evidence that this whole Weyland story is being sped up and will end sooner than what we originally heard.

We called it. Luke is exploiting Ben's feelings to get to Jay's recent business acquisitions. Classy fellers, those Wilmott-Browns.

It's a little unbelievable that Ben is falling for this. He didn't believe it when open-book Paul said he loved him, or when Johnny told him. Ben's past makes it so he can't very often accept love given to him from obviously benign corners...so why is he all of a sudden accepting what this shifty bloke is pretending to offer?

Luke negs Ben into a second date. This is ugly behaviour and straight from the sleazy straight-guy playbook.

Johnny would never.

Ben and Johnny have zero chemistry and there’s a reason they were never paired as a couple after their one night stand. Harry Reid is leaving the show. The end.

[quote] It's a little unbelievable that Ben is falling for this.

People do strange things when lust is involved.

Ben is just sex-starved. Apparently his libido is insatiable, he throws down at least 5x more often than Jay or other straights.

A little ironic how they mentioned Christian & Syed in Tuesday episode. While Luke isn't as musclebound as Christian, he's basically the same age, complexion, and general build as Christian. Perhaps Ben is realizing one of his teenage fantasies.

R282 has stated her boundaries?

Now you've reminded me how sexy Sidwell is R286 I may get tickets to see 'Wicked' over New Year. I don't care for the songs (had a roommate who wore out the playlist) but Aaron may get me to appreciate it. He looks delicious in his costume from the press kit promo photos (the long boots are a strong look).

Sidwell was adorable in the musical Grey Gardens at the Southwark Playhouse back in January 2016. In the first act he had short hair and in the second act he had a mullet wig. Jenna Russell (Michelle) had the lead in that.

You can see Sidwell in rehearsal about four times in this little clip.

Sheila Hancock is sublime as Edith in 'Grey Gardens', and underrated among the great Brit actresses.

I LOVED Hancock’s performance. Unfortunately she didn’t want to do it in the West End and that’s one of the main reasons the show didn’t transfer from the Southwark Playhouse. She was so chilling as Steve Owen (Martin Kemp)’s mother. And those with Acorn should absolutely see her performance in the wonderful series Bedtime, all episodes with different couples getting ready to go to bed.

It is a shame her run in GG was so short. Did she win awards or acclaim beyond critics'?

Hancock is RADA, you know. It's a welcome change to discuss such talent as hers on a thread about the lights of EastEnders.

I don’t think she did, R292. I’ll always remember Sidwell as Jerry in that mullet sitting beside her in bed while she sang “Jerry Loves My Corn.”

Ian keeps mentioning Steven in conversations in most episodes. It's awful to get the constant reminders of the ignominity his character endured and what a let-down his final Arc was. Poor Aaron Sidwell.

R294

As soon as Ben called Luke "Squire," I thought of that UKNakedMen film by Jonno several years ago called "The Squire's Mechanic."

They even do it in the garage where The Mechanic is servicing The Squire's automobile.

Pehaps this is SOC's porn fantasy.

[quote] Perhaps this is SOC's porn fantasy.

There are definitely wish-fulfilment/sexy fan-fiction vibes to Ben x Luke so far. It's hard to even blame SOC; he's getting the shaft early (so to speak) and couldn't effect the LGB changes he wanted for EE...so why not just throw his hands up and please himself while the timer runs out on him? Other writers have done the same. It just sucks for Harry Reid and all his hard work, this plot feels anticlimactic for his run.

If this were a real porno then Johnny would feature one time in a kinky three-way. Ben could bring him in on one of their hot nights in exchange for his silence over something the Carters find out snooping on the Weyland audits. Johnny is insecure and never gets laid so for all his ethical hangups he'd almost definitely go for that deal.

Big news coming out of the EE press office, I gather. Maybe Kat coming back without Alfie? Janine? David? Bianca?

R278, R279: I think DTC wanted to build up that angle back in 2014 during Johnny's first stint, but of course Sam Strike's departure derailed that. SS was better at playing Johnny as a sexual being and I think he worked better with Harry Reid in terms of a prospective couple. However, even back then I thought a spark was missing between those two characters and it felt more like a pairing by default. It wasn't like Christian or Syed where the chemistry was palpable from very early on.

The scene in the Carter kitchen in which Whitney brings up the installment plan and then dismisses Johnny with an iced bun was so cringeworthy. He's a man in his early twenties with a professional degree, but the EE trope to beat all EE tropes is the educated actually being utter ignoramuses so of course it had to be the barely lettered barmaid who tried it on with her stepfather on multiple occasions who rescues that family (of which she is not even actually a part).

Sad to see that Laurie Brett has bowed out. I wonder if she'll be returning for the climax of the Max/Weyland plot or if that's actually the last we're seeing of her for a while.

More homoeroticism smuggled into the Ben/Jay relationship in today's episode, courtesy of Jamie Borthwick. HR actually played that scene fairly straight (pardon the pun), but when Ben pulled Jay toward him during the handshake Jamie made the acting choice of staring into Harry's eyes, then down at his lips, i.e. the soap cliche for a prelude to a kiss. Several people on WW's episode thread noticed it too, so I don't think I'm just overly thirsty.

I meant to type Christian AND Syed, of course.

R299 No, you're not being overly thirsty. . I was watching on iPlayer and backed it up to make sure I saw what I saw. Borthwick's look was quite deliberate.

Oh, and coming up "Halloween Johnny" ... RME.

Oh, Jonathan. More Carter Clan comedy is not what anyone wants or needs. Is he going as Igor or Michael Arden's Quasimodo? I can't tell. He can't be going as a vampire, he hasn't got any plastic fangs.

Why can't he start at a firm or look at flats so he can steer well clear of this save-the-Vic palaver and all of the silly community pageantry that goes with it? Or, if he cares about his dreadful parents and their pile of rubble that much, why doesn't he start investigating the obviously shifty Fi & Luke? No-one else living at the Pub is intelligent enough to suspect them, apparently, and Johnny already thinks he's Endeavour Morse so why not indulge the delusion..

Giving Johnny the lighthearted sideplots meant for Lee or Nancy (before both became ill and scarpered) isn't helping his cause. I love the Johnny character and even I'm starting to hate him this season. The writers need to take him seriously, and leave the comedy in the family to Shirl.

Is it me or is Shirley constantly wound atm?

Linda Henry is normally very good with dynamics (relatively) but this last fortnight she's been stuck in this very aggressive, shouty gear. She barks every single line. Is Henry alright or is there something going that's affecting her performance? (threat of possible axeing? Upset at storylines?)

Linda Henry is usually off screen this time of year due to her annual vacation in Greece. I guess they just shot around it.

I think the writing for Shirley right now is the problem. It's plot-driven, which is to say she's the designated skeptic/doubter voice in the Weyland/Carter story, but because of the demands of the plot no one (or at least no one significant) can be brought round to her point of view, so she's written as shrill and unreasonable toward those around her. That's typical for characters in soap storylines who have critical information which cannot be revealed yet. But it's bad for Shirley specifically because caustic outsider Shirley feels incredibly tired by this point (not least to Linda Henry herself, perhaps).

LH may well think this story is shit, but I reckon she's enough of a professional to not let that affect her performances.

Mel’s coming back? Woo hoo. I hope Lisa and Dan ride back on her coattails.

R302 The Carters (plus Whitney) will be parading en masse as The Munsters this year. Jonathan as "Eddie."

The interweb frauen are so disappointed that Tamzin Outhwaite is returning and not “Kat & Alfie.” Losers!

I'm relieved it wasn't Kat and Alfie or Janine . And I still want to keep Ben and Abi .

No offence but Mel as a character is nothing without her husband Steve. He was the interesting one.

Mel was also an interesting character. She went from being a sweet, perky people pleaser to a hard nosed bitch by the time she left. I never believed her affair with Phil, though.

Enter another member of the Taylor family coming: Karen's younger sister, "Kandice."

Will they pronounce her name Can-DEESE? I hated how they did that on Coronation Street.

So as I hoped, Gangster Mick is rising. He has to find 60k in six weeks.

Now we'll finally see Mick play the part he plays best.

Johnny now has a law degree and should not be anywhere near a bar.

What's happened to Tina? She's not be seen for weeks, or missed.

You’ll see her next week, R316. And gurl gonna be IN TROUBLE.

[quote] Johnny now has a law degree and should not be anywhere near a bar.

R315 I agree. And you know, if they'd wanted to, they actually could have written Johnny into the Weyland story. Law degree in hand, Jonathan could have gotten some kind of internship in the company's legal department. His boss, a hot older gay guy (think Jeremy Sheffield) has him proofing and filing totally boring property records and contracts. Soon, Johnny sees one or two things related to Albert Square, and our villains wouldn't even know that Young Carter is down in the basement with pieces of the jigsaw puzzle all around him.

That’s a really good idea, R317. And it might have worked if Johnny was played by a competent actor. But he isn’t.

I think by February James will be dead and the Widow Willmott-Brown will arrive to claim his fortune-and her first name is Melanie.

This gentrification plot is such crap. Peak SOC. I'm flabbergasted that it was meant to go on for THREE YEARS. I don't think I can stand even three more weeks of it.

I utterly detest soap plots like this which are patently implausible because of how many people are required to either keep something quiet or be slow/unintelligent, or both. You find yourself constantly thinking "why doesn't he say x" and "why doesn't she do y" because there's no character reason for their actions, it's just necessary for the plot to lurch forward. It ruins suspension of disbelief and takes you out of the illusion of witnessing actual people's lives, instead making it painfully apparent that you're watching a bad storyline on a soap. The cherry on top is that the gentrification scheme cannot succeed in the end because then the show would end, so there isn't even that most rudimentary source of narrative tension for this story--who wins?

Finally, the characters are such pointless panto villains. Fi is a two-faced viper but at least the actor is bearable most of the time. The rest of the Wilmott-Browns are delivering some of the hammiest performances I've ever seen. Of course, the writing and storyline are shit, so I can't really blame them.

I enjoyed Uncle Hugo’s fondness for bacon sandwiches.

'The cherry on top is that the gentrification scheme cannot succeed in the end because then the show would end, so there isn't even that most rudimentary source of narrative tension for this story--who wins?'

This is very true. The Vic will still be there in 20 years time, we all know that.

It's a bit bizarre the way Abbie, as the only cook at the Vic, was sacked today, while all the bar staff were kept on just because they were 'fahm-lee'. Now she is very vulnerable and it looks as if Jay might revive his past relationship with her.

Whitney and Lee aren’t farm-ly, though.

The decision to sack Abi is so totally plot-driven just to make her situation seem that much more desperate. Just like Jay suddenly being a walking ATM to save Billy's ass.

Isn't the pub going to serve food? We occasionally see others in the kitchen, but none of them no how to cook.

If they don't sack Woody, then they're not serious. Surely, Linda, Mick or Shirley can be "bar manager." The position already seemed redundant.

If they were really trying to find 60k in six weeks, they'd make everyone work for free during that time or sack them.

Apparently, Tina forgets she's lesbian again.

Oops, I meant Woody, not Lee, obviously.

Tina’s bisexual. How hard a concept is that to grasp?

I have no problem grasping the concept of bisexuality, but Tina doesn't appear to pursue actual relationships with men, when she's not in a state. Instead, they show her having sex with guys when she's drunk (Woody) or emotionally shattered (Billy). Not exactly a healthy representation of bisexuality.

(btw - The "forgets she's a lesbian" line is the expression Shirl used when it was revealed that Tina had slept with Woody. Simply mimicking the line directly from EE. )

OK, R328, I apologize for getting snarky with you, then. It’s just the “forgot she was a lesbian line” sounds all too much like what those frauen over at WE would use. Such a simplistic lot they are over there, particularly the pathetic piece of shit which is Shamelessness.

Oops, I meant WW, of course.

EE have the most abysmal, unnatural, forced lesbian storylines & characters.

When the creaking & threadbare Corrie are beating you in the Dyke Dept., you know there's an issue.

When will Sophie ever get a storyline of her own, though?

Tina's tired of being a vegetarian.

She wants some real meat.

Neither of them are my type, but I would think Billy would be a downgrade in meat quality compared to Woody.

Perry Fenwick had a rocking body when Billy and the guys did a Full Monty routine some years ago. Don’t know if he’s, ahem, kept it up, though.

When I see the Felix character, I'm rather intrigued by him. But seriously, what's the purpose of having George Maguire in this role?

Felix is already a hipster, so make him a gay hipster and have him casually dating Johnny. Felix could at least take Jonathan shopping for clothes or something.

Phil is apparently going to become King of the Square soon. Boo. I wanted that shit to end already.

R334 Yorke is going for nuance in entirely the wrong production. The complex but salient idea that grief & guilt alters fundamental pattern of behaviour in shocking ways is a good one to explore in a drama....that isn't EastEnders.

It's actually not unreasonable that the horror at what she'd done would drive Tina to the father of the little girl she ran down, but that will go over the heads of audiences who watch EE expecting conflict & misery that is overblown.

It's more ridiculous that Billy would bed Tina considering how besotted he is with the very lovely Honey. A man like him is punching we'll above his weight with a woman who looks like her and is happy to dote on him, to boot. Unless th implication is that Billy has a thing about being mistreated by people that claim to love him (the Mitchells, Janine..)?

It has been established that Billy has a big, thick beer can cock. ‘Nuff said.

Why would a lesbian care one iota about Billy's schnutz, R339? Or that of any man, for that matter.

There are even plenty of straight women who don't register size. Sex for a female is about connection.

Oh, really, R340?

(rolls eyes)

Didn't they announce SOC was binned back in June? When does his name disappear?

When he started, his first onscreen credit was in July 2016, and it was said his own creative work would start in September 2016. So we're now well beyond one year using either start date.

The Billy/Tina kiss was the most unrealistic thing ever. Tina will probably get pregnant now too. No way would Billy, already punching with cute Honey, have succumbed to fug Tina. I don't think he'd have left Janet's side either, even if Honey had told him to. He's her father.

Maybe Abi would have better luck presenting her legacy idea about Steven's baby to Grandpa Simon down in New Zealand. Lauren and Louie can go with her and see what Peter is up to.

That’s probably what will happen, R344. Or maybe their plane will explode in mid flight.

Because r340, Tina like fish AND meat.

Apparently, Sonya does too.

Tina's Halloween hairdo made her look like the blond space cadet from SNL.

Since Harry was seen in Dover filming with Tamzin last week, then won't Ben still be appearing into 2018?

Harry Reid seems like a genuinely lovely guy but Jesus, he can’t act for shit.

I think Harry Reid doesn't do rage very well, and unfortunately that seems to be Ben's main coping mechanism whenever anything unpleasant happens to him--at least in recent years. His laddish material with Jay is also pretty bad, but I blame the writing for that more.

It's possible to progress the character a bit by having him or someone else recognize the whole suite of mental and emotional problems that he has, including anger management difficulties, and putting the character through some therapy for this that makes him cope with negative stimuli in a different, less stale manner in the future. His 2014 return was a good opportunity for showing this kind of growth and maybe rehabilitating the character from the total assassination it experienced under Kirkwood, but instead he was basically the same, bubbling with rage just under the surface and closeted (despite this not making much sense) to boot.

Reid seems to succeed most when he's playing Ben as a happy gay man in love, so I can see him being successful with different writing for Ben. It's too bad that DTC didn't cast him as Johnny Carter in 2013, as that would have been a better fit for the actor in terms of material.

Sidenote, I am liking Ben's current (longer) hair.

So Masood's new family are his older aunt and uncle? (Described as feisty.)

I'm not ageist, but this show could use a new young couple in their 20s.

Agreed, we don't need another OLD couple on the Square, Ted and Joyce are bad enough.

There's only one hot guy left on the Square and one hot woman. That's not enough. 20s, 30s, I don't care, just bring them on.

[quote] Will they pronounce her name Can-DEESE?

I had to cross examine a withess who pronounced her name Candace as Can DA Cee - I almost laughed out loud when she corrected my pronunciation. I wanted to ask, So you really are a pompous ass aren't you?

That’s funny, R354.

Kim is preggers again? WHY??????

Who do you consider the one hot guy left on the Square, R353? There are quite a few for me: Kush, Martin, Vincent, Jack and maybe Keanu. Jay, Shakil and Ben are cute, maybe too young and immature to be "hot."

Today on the Ben and Jay homoeroticism watch, Ben delivers the line "love of my life" in conversation with Kathy, then looks across the street at Jay talking to a customer, after which the camera lingers on Jay for quite a pregnant pause before Ben and Kathy's dialogue resumes.

Clearly deliberate, since if the reference were just to Paul there would be no reason to include Jay in the shot at all, or only feature him for a split second rather than the camera approximating Ben's covetous gaze. Fanservice or laying of bread crumbs?

🚼 Why not, r356 ?

R357 Knowing that Ben is exiting, it would have to be classified as blatant "fanservice." (Unless Ben is set to die in Jay's arms.)

Johnny trying to get a drunk, sleeping Moose into bed with him...didn't think he had it in him. Most interesting Johnny's been in many months.

Spoilers say Luke will attack Ben this week when the latter tries for a clean break. This feels like one of those pat, pedantic story directions typical of SOC--rape survivor's child attacked by son of her rapist. I'm also waiting for Jay to find and rescue Ben, then play nurse to him during his convalescence like he would. Maybe Ben will confess his undying love and steal a kiss from him before he leaves the show (alive, preferably).

Lauren and Josh is like watching paint dry. The writing and acting for Imogen were diabolical and I hope to never see her again.

Buckle up for lots of Phil and Mick from now until the end of the year.

[quote] Johnny trying to get a drunk, sleeping Moose into bed with him.

Motion to award Johnny Carter his DL card at long last; all in favour say “aye”?

'I'm also waiting for Jay to find and rescue Ben, then play nurse to him during his convalescence like he would. Maybe Ben will confess his undying love and steal a kiss from him before he leaves the show (alive, preferably). '

This is never gonna happen. Why would Ben want to upset Jay like that?

The soap's first ever gay rape scene was foreshadowed today when Ben put sugar in the salt shaker, as you do. Luke was furious and grabbed Ben's wrist most aggressively, before storming out.

I'm with you R362, these Ben/Jay fantasists get on my tits.

I’m not even someone who dislike someone step/quasi incestual s/ls or someone who thinks a straight man can’t ever rethink his sexuality. My problem with Ben/Jay is contextual, that their particular loving bond is not sexual and neither would consider making it so anymore. Ben loves Jay as much as he loves his Mum and in much the same way. Ben isn’t IN love with Jay (and wasn’t ever, for the record).

Their brotherly love is being misrepresented and this may be purposeful, but only to disorientate viewers.

Luke tried to strangle spazzy Ben today and Ben didn't even attempt to fight him off, but froze just like Kathy did.

Highly unrealistic. Ben would have been kicked and punching to get free.

#kicked AND punched

Luke is only a slightly better looking Kenneth Branagh. Dude hardly has any lips, too. Nice hair, though.

R366 Shame on you. The man is obviously despicable, and has no good qualities comparable to the legend that is Branagh.

Assaulting anyone is disgusting behaviour, let assaulting alone someone who’s already been a victim of abuse at least three times before. This emphatically AIN’T right.

I think the twist will be that Luke is actually a decent guy and it’s Josh who will be the psycho son.

So is Luke meant to be something of a 40-year old version of Ben? Still trying to please dad and prone to uncontrollable, frenzied fits of anger and violence?

Is Luke going to murder Ben?

They're were rumors earlier this year that Ben was going to be murdered.......could it be?

Ben’s departure is no doubt timed with Steve McFadden’s panto schedule so I suspect Ben will go on the run and Phil will join him, at least for a few months.

This entire show is on its last legs. Fellas, start cutting the boards & get digging.

Friday's material related to Karen's loan shark problem, Karaoke at the Vic, and Kim's Vlog was quite bad.

Kim is a dreadful character. She should be leaving, not Abbie and Ben.

Ben would never just freeze when a not particularly big guy strangled him. He would kick and punch and yell. He's been in prison, ffs.

WHY IS JOHNNY, QUALIFIED LAWYER, STILL WORKING IN A PUB?

I know nothing about redevelopment in London, but realistically, how long before something like Project Dagmar comes to a place like Albert Square?

Would relatively young guys in their 30s (like Kush and Martin) really expect to still be selling things from street stalls until they retire?

R375, a lot of the street markets are protected by law as they add to the local colour of a place and are considered part of the UK's heritage.

R376 Okay, thanks for the answer. Maybe I'll make it there someday to still see them.

I think it’s much more likely that an urban development plan like Crossrail would end up pushing out the market.

Are the street vendors actually able to make a sustainable wage, and support a family on their earnings, or is this more or less a side job?

Most of the vendors portrayed on EE don't seem particularly motivated, nor do they appear to spend much time at their stalls.

R379:it’s highly doubtful you could have a mortgage & feed 2.5 sprogs on stall takings.

In fact, the suspension of disbelief required to accept a Walford where this does happen is the very device keeping Johnny out of well-paid suitable employment in law. If he goes off, gets a posh suit and starts making serious bank at white-collar job, the misty-eyed view of the market Square becomes untenable.

Patrick Bergin was really good in his debut as JP. His scarf was fabulous.

Oh God, there is way too much Mick and Linda on this show now.

Oh dear, Luke has left Ben for dead on the oily floor of the car repair shop. I was hoping for a gay rape, but that wasn't implied.

The whole of the Wilmott-Brown family turned up at the pub and demanded they take possession of it. Fi and Max snogged in front of a horrified Carmel.

Poor Carmel.

Has Will Whoreton had sex during the last two years?

^^^ Pardon me for the intrusion at R385. Wrong thread.

Though, I suppose you could insert "Johnny Carter." ;-)

Surprisingly R386, the answer would still be “yes”.

Only just mind, our dear Johnny has been celibate since March.

Johnny is a qualified lawyer who works in a pub and he's also a young gay guy in East London who never visits the great gay bars and clubs places like Shoreditch and Dalston have to offer.

Disturbing denouement, that. Stacey showing up after the fact only to shout, gale and order people about was a gift.

Max burning his own arm with dead eyes was hard to watch. The Brannings must be a cursed family (apparently Max hears voices in his head, now). There’s still that ‘off’ chemistry between him & Jack, too, over-flirtatious or spousal for brothers..

Josh is going to bring this house of cards down, isn’t he? All for Lauren’s sake (really). He’s not much of a Romeo but I suppose he’ll have to do. He certainly looked like he felt for Max when Fi turned him down. Does he know how badly his brother hurt Ben?

Kath isn’t near forceful enough to stop Phil or Ben taking retribution, even if she’s talking sense. If either Ben or Johnny had a lick of it (and what a pity neither do) they’d spend Ben’s recovery time conspiring in the ward to do a runner together on Christmas Eve, before this all gets any worse.

And worsen it will, with the promise of a now-raging Phil and a hopping-mad Mick (and how dare he shout at Johnny like that) teaming up. The Dream Team nobody wanted. Is Vincent going to assist? And where has he been these last few days, while Kim struggles by herself with Pearl?

Max is totally irredeemable now. They really should just go for broke and have it be revealed that he supplied the drugs to Roxy, setting in motion what happened at New Year’s. I don’t think he scooped up the drugs the morning after in an attempt to salvage her reputation. I think he intended for her to suffer a fatal overdose, ruining the Jack/Ronnie wedding. Ronnie dying too wasn’t part of the plan.

Lauren is impressing me a little, going after these creeps like she is.

Jay can fuck off with his pass-age treatment of Abi. She didn’t have anything to do with this.

Johnny doesn’t even know what Luke has done to Ben, does he? Don’t these kids have WhatsApp?

Hideous Luke was revealed in daylight and looked about 50 years old.

It's only a matter of time before Eastenders finally ask Danny Dyer to play to type and get him to join Phil and Vincent in bringing down the Wilmott Browns.

I was still getting weird Jack/Max ideas, even after Jack hit him in the Square. I believe Jack would even take a fall for his brother. This is the most compelling I’ve ever seen either of them be.

I also popped for Kathy confronting Fi and setting her straight. I felt Kath’s conflicted frustration.

Taylforth was very good in that scene.

The actor playing Luke is NOT attractive. He has practically no lips.

Ben in the Vic getting his frustration & torment over Luke out via darts....and Vic resident/fellow gay/close friend & crying shoulder Johnny is nowhere in sight. Probably upstairs pratting about with Whitney and doing nothing useful for his family or more pressingly his own life.

Ben revealed Luke’s fuckery (albeit accidentally) to Lauren before he’d even seen Johnny. Abi knew about the violence a month ago. Half the Square knows, apparently, but not yet one of Ben’s best friends who could actually fully comprehend the emotional horror. This leaves the audience to wrongfully assume that Johnny doesn’t care enough about someone close to him to even check in. He’s busy with his family’s eviction, but that shouldn’t stop him sending a text or lolloping across the Square in three strides one lunchtime to see what’s been up with Ben since, oh, September? Late summer?

So, how does the land lie here? Do Ben & Johnny just not speak at all anymore? That UST just get too awkward or did they just do the whole ‘grow up grow apart’ thing? In any case there must be some closure for them before Ben goes in a few weeks. Omitting a final scene for them together will turn off a number of viewers for good.

I haven't seen EE much (other than Peggy's farewell) since Kathy was just revealed to be alive. Can someone tell me, in a nutshell, what's happened with our Kath since then?

I've always been intrigued by a Whitney and Kush pairing and enjoyed their little scene together. I'd prefer to see more of that than anything having to do with Whitney and Mick or Kush and Denise.

Of course, if Martin and Stacey are going to have a bust up over her relationship with Max, then Martin and Kush and have their long-awaited drunken flip flop.

[quote] Ben in the Vic getting his frustration & torment over Luke out via darts....and Vic resident/fellow gay/close friend & crying shoulder Johnny is nowhere in sight

Since Mick & Linda are selling all the fixtures in The Vic that aren't nailed down, I suppose it's highly possible that someone bought Johnny.

Lmao R398. Poor old Ted Reilly. Tbh EE is terrible and has been for years, with or without him.

And it’s about to get worse. DNW @this Max vs. Phil Hardman Battle. Old geezas need to simmer down.

Ted Reilly is leaving, he just confirmed it on Twitter.

In other news, it appears that Kat Moon is returning, so I imagine they'll explain the 'Redwater' ending.

One wonders how newbie department store sales clerk, Michelle, managed to get Christmas off in order to go holiday in Australia when this the busiest time of year in retail.

Please God Kat returns without Alfie.

How old is that pic of the diabla in the red dress?

I'm anticipating this years Christmas/New Year's Day shocker.

EE never disappoints!

R403 I second that. And so far, there's apparently no sign of Alfie. They should just say he died. Furthermore, as I understood it, the surgery he was having at the end of Redwater wasn't going to cure him of his brain tumor. It was just some kind of measure to alleviate what was going on.

I’m getting Ben/Johnny endgame, I can feel it in me waters.

Why hasn't anyone noticed that gay Luke is missing?

Or is he back, and I failed to notice?

So Karen Taylor has a sister?

And she looks so....so.....normal and untrashy !

R408 The Weyland gang mentioned Luke disappearing last week and seemed to chalk it up to normal behavior. I believe JWB used the word "again," uttered with little concern and disapproval about Luke having presumably taken off. I think it was the episode where Josh was then assigned the task to deliver the eviction notice to Ian.

Mel comes with a teenage son, "Hunter Owen" (actor Charlie Winter).

It looks like Max and Stacey fucked tonight. Give me a fucking break.

I don't think Stacy and Max slept together, at least not yet, but she's getting way too close and way too involved in Max's screwed up life. In the clip of the "Christmas Tragedy" there's a glimpse of Martin crying, and bleeding from his head. I'm wondering if Stacy is going to be the character who dies this Christmas.

Whoever it is, it's billed as a "major shocker that will rock the EastEnders to the core."

And tomorrow is Christmas !

🎄 Merry Christmas to EastEnders fans everywhere !

Were Stacy and Max actually doing the deed, or hadn't it gone that far? And Stacy in that angel costume was pretty hysterical! Will they be stopped in time by the ringing of the missing phone?

[quote] Were Stacy and Max actually doing the deed, or had it gone that far?

I think it was implied that they were going to be doing the deed. They were bumping and grinding on the floor in front of the fireplace, and it looked like the angel costume was coming off. So unless they show us something different tomorrow ....

I suppose they think this should be "shocking," but it really was hysterical. I was also howling with laughter the other day when Max was strangling Ian with the Christmas lights cord.

I think Lauren will be the one who dies.

"Josh" has a nice bulge.

Stacey and Max DID fuck.

How come there was no awkwardness between Tina & Billy at the Vic bar? Bill doesn’t need to get mixed up in this shifty nonsense now he’s got a legit business.

Why are the Carters renewing their clearly meaningless vows yet again? It took me an age to realise that the child Johnny was dragging around tonight is Ollie. Why did peripheral characters like Louise Mitchell & Patrick Trueman show up for the vows? Shirley looked like I felt through the ordeal.

Max is right, those pendants he got for Lauren & Abi are tatty sentimental rubbish. Max has a set of brass for a heart too, lusting after his dead son’s wife over her new family’s Christmas dinner, at table with with her fit temperamental husband. Baby Louis has shot up all of a sudden, hasn’t he?

Then there’s tonight’s Swerve...Tanya’s Return. She looks stellar and from the first seconds got straight back into character. “I don’t care if you’re alive or dead”...incredible. Lesbian crush impending...

Both Lauren and Abi went splat from the roof of the Vic? Wow. That took BALLS.

Those Branning girls sure are dumb. Getting up on a wet ledge when it's pouring rain? One is already off-balance because she's six months pregnant, and the other's gong to go whichever direction her caboose does.

Hopefully, Kush is there to comfort Martin. They can cohabitate and raise Arthur together.

There’s speculation by the frauen on WW that Abi might survive long enough to give birth. REALLY? No fucking way could either girl survive that fall off the roof of the Vic onto a cement street.

R422 Maybe Abi lands on top of Lauren, so her fall is cushioned.

No, R422. They were seen lying side by side.

Abi landed on Lauren, then bounced ;-)

Not long ago, spoilers reported that Abi would suffer a miscarriage.

I guess they weren't kidding.

Stacy certainly isn't the brightest bulb on the Christmas Tree. What a dolt. Is she going to feel the need to comfort Mad Max?

Martin is already suspicious, and I look for the ex Mrs. Max to tell the entire town about Stacy and Max.

Last year, it was Ronnie and Roxie.

This year, it's Abi and Lauren.

Will this become a new family Christmas tradition in Walford?

Too bad Kim and Denise aren’t technically sisters anymore.

I'm not averse to sacrificing the never-seen Bianca to get rid of Sonia.

Will Stacy end up pregnant, and require a paternity test to determine the Baby Daddy?

Can you imagine the mentally challenged child she would spawn, with her bipolar disease, and Max's JustPlainNuts Syndrome?

R431 eh, I’d be more interested in the hellspawn of Abi & Steven. Imagine the little psychopath...

Speaking of Abi, where did all of her flatmates fuck off to on Christmas Day? Ben would’ve been with Phil/Sharon & Louise although we didn’t see this, but what about Jay who is currently fallen out with the Mitchells? And where was Donna? I have to assume with Robbie as she certainly was not on the stall. Poor preggers Abi had to spend Christmas morn alone in her dingy flatshare and wait for Lauren, sad.

One thing is bugging me about Max’s Xmas Day Peril more than anything else....

WHY is ANYONE allowed to stride up the Vic backstairs onto the roof? Why did Whit just let Max go up? You’d think after the Bradley incident there’d be zero access up there to punters as well as a locked door. And don’t the Carters remember when Lee tried to jump off only 12 months or so ago?

He didn’t try to jump off the Vic’s roof, it was the roof of the call center he worked at. Remember how he got talked down by the security lady? The actress, Sally Rogers, is about to make her NY theater debut in Martin McDonagh’s play The Hangman.

Spoilers are reporting a botch on Phil & Aiden’s Big Job, involving an exploding barrel outside the Vic back entrance. Screen caps suggest Shirl & Linda look upon this incident with horror. Well, that explains what’s going to happen to Johnny.

What about Ben, though? The New Year trailer shows someone sneaking up on him in The Arches (doesn’t he ever learn?). Will Ben & Johnny both meet sticky ends in the same night, and in separate tragedies? Talk about your Grand Guignol, this end-of-year EE is practically a John Ford play ....

Maybe Ben and Johnny will be having their own "private party", a we'll have a BOGO Tragedy.

I do have to admit, EastEnders certainly knows how to end the year, and start the new year with a wallop!

I'm barely over the Ronnie/Roxie drownings.

[quote] Will Ben & Johnny both meet sticky ends in the same night, and in separate tragedies?

Based on those spoiler photos showing Harry Reid filming on location in Dover my guess would be, no.

[quote] What about Ben, though? The New Year trailer shows someone sneaking up on him in The Arches (doesn’t he ever learn?).

The figure sneaking up on Ben looks like a woman with longish, blonde hair. I'm guessing it might be Mel coming to The Arches looking for Phil? She's supposed to show up January 11.

[quote] Maybe Ben and Johnny will be having their own "private party", and we'll have a BOGO Tragedy.

Sex, love & death in the same episode....that does make for good memorable telly. On the other hand, there’s that pesky regressive message & emotional scarring..

What does Stacey expect? It's barely been two whole days, since Martin found out she fucked "that bald ginger sack."

I found the scene between Kathy and JWB rather weird. And Fi acts as if she didn't know her father went to prison a second time for raping another woman? She would have been a teenager by then. .. Oh well, file under how to wrap a story up in ten minutes.

The Carters are kind of dumb not to try to negotiate buying back the freehold per Fi's offer. Shouldn't they still have the 50K they just got through raising? They're 1/3 of the way there.

In other news: Lauren alive. Abi brain dead. I suppose they'll try to keep her on life support till the baby appears viable.

I’m still hoping Lauren has “complications” and dies. Loved Kathy grabbing JWB by the balls.

The Carters already gave the $50,000 up to save their sorry asses, but Wetland is refusing to give it back.

Yet the Carters are ALWAYS giving away free booze and food, and renewing their vows, with a reception afterward, even though they've only been married two years. Linda complained about Whitney spending money, but Linda is certainly no slouch in that department.

Can’t wait to see Cora smack Max in the hospital tonight.

When Kathy grabbed Wimot-Brown by the balls, I'm surprised he didn't stroke out since she had such a firm grip, she was most certainly cutting off the oxygen supply to his brain.

So silly that -- on the night of the final, big blow-out at The Queen Vic -- that's the night they have Johnny decide to go party elsewhere with all his unseen mates. Instead of hiring those stupid Waldo extras, couldn't they have at least shown Johnny and a few of his mates, indicating which one he's about to go live with? .. And Ben, Jay, and Donna seem oblivious to the fact that their friend and flatmate, Abi, is on her death bed. I'm not saying they shouldn't go to The Vic for New Years, but since they appeared in the episode, you'd think that one of them would have called or shown up at the hospital by now for an update on Abi and the baby, and/or at least said something about her situation while all three of them were in The Vic. And where the hell did Tanya take off too? Was Max dropping all the papers from Weyland meant to indicate they pulled the plug on Abi?

[quote] They have Johnny decide to go party elsewhere with all his unseen mates.

And unheard of. We’ve not seen hide nor hair of these people, unless they’re his study group from last year which seems unlikely as - putting it kindly - those fellows did not seem like party animals.

I think what happened was the Queen Vic fall/hospitalization of the girls was shot totally separately and the rest of the cast didn’t get those pages in their script. Which was a very bad idea. AND WHERE THE FUCK WAS TANYA? If she couldn’t play out the entire week then she shouldn’t have been brought back at all.

Calm down, bitches, and be patient..........

😭 You know that eventually this will end in tears........

Either Ronnie or Roxie, and Abi, were supposedly sighted wandering around the Square, and fans are speculating. Perhaps one of the sisters has come back as Abi's Guardian 👼 Angel to take Abi to heaven.

They wouldn’t dare.

Apparently, the launderette is coming back with plans to turn the place into a dry cleaners now abandoned. And it looks like Karen aims to run the re-opened business.

I assume that's the son, Apostulous Papadopolous, holding the interviews. Maybe he can hook up with Johnny in the backroom while he's at it. They can do a takeoff on 'My Beautiful Launderette' for his end story. .. lol!

I think Keegan and Mel’s son Hunter should hook up. Yep, I think Keegan’s gay.

So since they've very quickly explained the whole thing about Jay's paternity being one of Max's blackmail lies, what would be the reason to keep the Jay character around, now that both Ben and Abi are departing? Nothing against Borthwick, but I find him pretty average and supporting at best.

They’ll be trying Jay in a program with Whit, next, if that mistletoe moment was anything to go on.

Jase is real; drunk!Keanu; Martin cleaning Max’s clock; Mick shot (with bonus ShirLinda)....

From a disappointing & saddening Christmas, the New Year has at least been a minor improvement.

Oh God, R455, you liked last night’s episode? I thought it would never end.

Lord no, not at all R456. DGMW, it was horrifically scripted & plotted, and I’m hatewatching at this point.

The upsides I listed are all that was good, and only from a personal standpoint (I despise Mick & Max, etc).

I’m thinking Ben & Johnny’s non-story will conclude like a thin, chaste version of Noah & Luke on ATWT. They’ll discuss their plans vaguely, maybe make some ambiguous cow-eyes before saying their farewells with a bro-hug. There could be a door left ajar for a potential future reunion, but maybe not romantically.

I hope it’s better than that. If the only two gays left in the village get over five minutes of meaningful half-decent screentime in their last episode AND get to show real gay affection, I’ll happily eat crow.

BRING BACK STELLA!

OK, gotcha, R457. Last night’s episode was as bad as it gets. And this “rehabilitation” of Max makes me want to puke.

R454 Whitney and Jay? Dear god, no.

Watching tonight’s episode. It’s stupid beyond belief. WHERE’S TRACY? WHERE’S WINSTON? WHERE’S THE REST OF THE SQUARE?

I’m getting a sneaking suspicion that Abi will somehow recover and Lauren will end up dead by the end of Thursday’s episode (no episode Friday).

R463 A photo from the filming of the funeral shows a flower card, "In Loving Memory, Abigail Branning."

Anyway, it's now become almost funny that Tanya is MIA. There's no way Tanya would be letting Max make all the decisions about Abi.

I wonder if Lauren will take her baby niece with her and Josh and Louie to form a happy, little family in Glasgow or wherever they decide to go.

Have the US airings ever caught up with the UK?

When Eastenders first started airing in the US, I watched the series on PBS , think it was in the late 1980s or early 90s. To try catching up, PBS showed Eastenders every night for about a year, then IIRC about twice a week.

At one point, because PBS started pre-empting the series, the PBS airings were so far behind, I just gave up. Then the PBS channel which aired the series, became some sort of religious channel, PAX. Then, the series was moved to another PBS channel. I then started watching the new episodes on BBC America, but it became so confusing, I gave up altogether.

R465 The airings on select PBS-affiliated channels are still years behind. Where I live (Los Angeles) the PBS channel gave up EE years ago (more than a dozen, I think). I used to hear stories about British-themed pubs in the area holding "viewing parties" on Sunday to watch the omnibus version via satellite or tape or something. By the time EE came to BBC America - and subsequently pay-per-view on DISH satellite - many US viewers had discovered VPNs and were watching the show that way. Reportedly, BBC America couldn't get enough viewers, and it was said to be dragging their schedule down, so they cancelled it. I believe DISH gave it up a couple of years ago. In the U.S., current episodes are now part of the BritBox offering, which streams some of the other popular BBC and ITV shows as well. ($6.99 per month).

I'm in the US, and I watch the shows on YouTube or Daily Motion on my tablet, at no cost. They are all up-to-date episodes.

I must admit I liked Aunty Mariam in last night’s episode.

Apparently, Johnny's already moved out of the Vic. The Carters were supposed to have vacated the pub by the 3rd, and he wasn't around before, during, or after Mick was shot,. They've now got Callum staying in Johnny's old room.

I'm wondering if Jay and Ben absconded with "the loot." Jay was already suspicious of Aidan, and of course, he's in the right place to have discovered it. Or perhaps Ciara and Mel figured out why Phil's undertaker cousin, Billy, was involved and enlisted Jay and/or Ben's help to search the place. Jay seemed a little too forgiving toward Phil and the big lie about his paternity.

Fucking awful cliffhanger. And why the fuck are they dragging out this Abi thing. I think that’s for a reason and somehow Abi will pull through next week and Lauren kicks the bucket.

R469 Johnny strolled in the backdoor of the Vic last night, in his lined jean-jacket. Linda shrieked at him, “have you lost weight?!!” despite him only having been gone 2 days.

So where is prodigal Johnny going to sleep now that Callum is kipping in his room?

The entire Carter Clan, including Shirley and Tina, are dumber than a bag of hammers.

There still may be hope for Johnny . . . . . . . . . . . . .

I want Dot to come back from her holiday, and burn down the new launderette, and frame Karen Taylor's chain smoking for causing the fire.

That scene between Phil and Ben at The Arches had a feeling of finality to it.

It was final. Steve McFadden is going off for his panto break.

EE Meta is the WORST. If anything needs to go this year, it’s that.

Huh, R476?

I'm sick of the sight of fuglimic Max and his bald ginger horror show head.

Kim has ballooned and looks ridiculous with good looking Vincent.

Dry roasted Denise needs to leave, same with freeze dried Kathy and Carmel.

Glad to see the back of Fat Lauren. She'll need to lose two stone before she gets anymore roles.

Masood dumping coffee on the rug was really stupid. And so fucking contrived.

If Mas is so broke, why was he even looking for a flat? .. And even if his aunt and uncle want to foster a kid, No. 41 has enough bedrooms for all of them.

Well, Ben has the loot. No big surprise. I figured it was either him or Jay or the both of them.

Ben is obviously going to abscond with the loot, even though the car lot is a better bet in the long term.

I too think it’s obvious Ben is gonna do a runner, R481. Will he take anyone with him, though?

We know Jamie Borthwick isn’t leaving and it wouldn’t make sense for Jay to scarper now anyway, since he’s finally got some closure and a stable job (for an orphan & former addict, that’s a big deal).

Ted Reilly is on his way out the door so there’s a strong possibility that Johnny gets in on this. I can easily see Johnny stumbling across Ben as he’s trying to flee with the dosh and clocking that something shifty is in the works, something connected to Mick. Perhaps Ben will have to cut him in and let him tag along to stop him grassing? (Johnny was ready to grass up his own Dad no problem last week lol). There’s also the possibility of Ben asking Johnny to run away without telling him about his, ahem, recent acquisitions...

Ben could take Louise, but there’s no talk of Tilly leaving and it would be boring & anticlimactic anyway.

I would love to see Johnny getting a job in a law firm and leaving because of that, rather than getting mixed up with Ben and his criminal ways.

I would like to see Johnny show up at the launderette to wash his tighty whities and begin an affair with Papadopolous, Jnr. .. Soon, Young Carter leaves the square and moves into Apostulous' luxury penthouse flat, with him handling routine legal and administrative affairs for his Greek lover's huge Fluff 'n' Fold empire.

I thought it was always established that the name was Oppodopoulos, not Papadopoulos.

R485 I think "Oppodopoulos" was the way Dot would incorrectly pronounce the name (meant to be humorous).

Kathy and Masood? Geez, sounds as bad as Denise and Kush. I suppose Ian would play the disapproving Carmel role.

Who is this Masood clown?

The male version of Karen Taylor?

R478............You must be gay.

So will Mel end up with some of Ben’s stash and give it to Phil as payment for what she stole from him?

Don’t think Mel’s that scrupulous, R490.

Is Hunter arriving later than his mother or is he on the Square as we speak?

R491, she’ll be that scrupulous if he’s pressing her head against a wall.

I don’t think Hunter will show up for a few weeks.

Ben left the Square tonight. He kissed the ring Paul gave him and held his hand up to the sky in a poignant last salute to his lover. How he expects to get £6m in notes through customs, I have no idea.

LOL, R493. He’ll find a way. After all, he’s a MITCHELL.

I wonder if Ben will somehow go overboard on the ferry? .. That way his family and friends would think he's just left Walford, and viewers wouldn't know whether he's dead or alive.

R493 ohh, that’s where that ring was from.

I spent the night scratching my head because i could have sworn that ring was Steven’s. He wore a chunky silver one just like it all last year, more noticeable than Ben’s. But yes, of course, Ben’s ring is also silver. It’s chunky, too, to poignantly cover up his ‘Paul’ tattoo.

I have to say I was extremely disappointed that Johnny didn’t get to bid Ben farewell. Hopefully Ben can pop a postcard to him on Valentine’s, presuming that Ben lives that long and Johnny isn’t gone by then.

[quote] How he expects to get £6m in notes through customs, I have no idea.

Ben could make sure he gets the gay customs officer and suggest the two of them go have some fun in the back room.

Since the Friday episode is being reported as Ben's last, I thought they could have at least given him the duff-duff with Harry Reid getting top credit. If that's the ending they wanted, then they could have easily shown Ben's face in the foreground with Ciara menacingly staring at him from afar in the background. - Au revoir.

Mel looked old and man like. I hope she's not coming back as a regular character.

Sorry, R499, she’s definitely back as a regular character.

Ugly Mel, I hate her.

So all the 20 somethings except for Jay and Keanu are leaving. Pretty dire state of affairs, with hideous Carmel and Denise still in the show.

I gather a bunch of student twentysomethings will be moving into the Square by spring.

With the casting of Hunter and Tiffany, I think they're maybe going to focus on a somewhat younger set (Keegan, Louise, Shaki, Bex, Bernadette, Hunter, Tiffany & Her Eyebrows, etc.).

I do wonder, though, who will live with Donna and Jay now that they need two new flatmates. If Keanu gets Ben's job at The Arches, perhaps he'll move in. Isn't he still sleeping on the floor where the Taylors are at? Perhaps they'll bring in s new girl for a triangle with Jay and Keanu.

I hope some 20 something students do move in, that would be more realistic for the neighbourhood too. Seeing Martin and Stacey renting a four bedroom house in Hackney on a market trader's wage annoys me every time I see it.

I thought Mel was going to pull out a gun and shoot Ben, and he would fall overboard. When his dead body is found floating , and Phil is informed , there would be an all out war between him and Mel.

Guess I was wrong . . . . . . .

I want to see Dot bitch slap Karen Taylor, throw her fat ass into the street, and create a standoff in the new Launderette.

I hate the following characters and need them to leave: Karen, Denise, Carmel, Kim, Linda, Masood, Masood's parents, Karen's retarded sons, Ted and Joyce, Jay, Billie Mitchell, Max Branning.

Better find something else to watch r507.

Slag!

Yeah R507, it may be time to move on to greener pastures. I’ve been watching on & off forever, but these last couple of homophobic years have sealed the EE coffin shut for me. I’m done, I’m over it now. It was just making me angry & depressed, anyway.

I’m back on ‘Rownd a Rownd’ and couldn’t be happier. And my Welsh will improve!

I can’t believe they made Karen a xenophobic racist this past week, just when we were finally starting to like her. Awful.

R510 Unfortunately, 'Rownd a Rownd' killed off gay David, so his partner, Rhys, is now single and celibate and not looking. They've got Rhys training to run a fundraising half-marathon in David's name. It looks as if Rhys may be in line for some type of story about overdoing it, as other characters have recently noted how much he's running, he's not joining his family for meals, and he was seen looking at what appeared to be exercise-bodybuilding supplements online. Perhaps he'll turn to steroids or something. (Reference: Dominic Copeland on Holby City, where they had a brief story about steroids, but never really covered it in much depth.)

For the Welsh stories, I prefer "Pobol." .. While Tyler & Iolo are a little predictable at the moment, they're just too damn cute.

... and hot.

Was Luke Evans ever on a Welsh soap?

r514, Luke Evans was on Crossroads.

I wonder if Bernadette is the one who took the loot? .. She knew about the heist and and was seen spying on the activity. .. Plus, swapping the cash out for a bundle of the Walford Gazette she was recently hired to deliver could be a clue.

More likely the Philth still has keys to the garage and discovered the hoard under the table and swapped it out.

Yeah, I agree, no way Bernadette has the cash. I’d be more inclined to believe the two “slow” brothers have it.

It’s not up yet at Britbox. WTF?

😭 I'm going to miss Josh.

At least Dot’s back.

Linda Henry’s bad dental work is really getting on my tits.

I want Whitney and Kush to get together. Denise is revolting and needs to exit the Square. I've hated her for so long, when will she leave?

Ditto on a Whitney-Kush pairing, R523. I've been thinking about those two for a good long while.

In the news - It looks like Johnny's exit is forthcoming and will revolve around a job offer away from London.

I think I'd rather hear about overflowing garbage bins not being picked up than watch one more scene of Max Agonistes.

If they couldn't get Tanya for more episodes, then they should have used Cora as her surrogate, with Cora mentioning where Tanya's at (e.g. back at her hotel for a lie down .. with Oscar who's come down with the flu .. giving her consent for the big switch off, etc.).

And were those two guys in the men's toilet stall at The Vic doing more than just coke together?

Hel-LO, JT! Or is it TJ? Whatever the fuck he’s called he is HOT! Seems as dumb as a bag of spuds but that’s how I like ‘em. Didn’t watch the show much when he was previously on. I gather he impregnated Cindy Jr.

Nope, he's just a random Tiffany met on SnapChat, hence him saying she looks like her pictures.

R527, you’re thinking of the guy in the final scene. I’m referring to TJ, who Whitney summoned to get info on Tiff.

Max Agnoistes!

Love it. Sick of his tormented face and ginger tears. The guy's name is next to FUG in the dictionary, please fire him.

I absolutely hate it that we’re expected to feel sympathy for such a piece of shit like Max. How could Jack forgive him for keeping him from Matthew, for starters?

Max is disgusting and I can't believe he isn't leaving as he's done every single thing he could possibly do on that show, whereas Abbie was just getting started.

I think Jac Jossa will come back if she loses weight and becomes hot Lauren again. She will need to lose weight as no-one is going to employ her weighing 13 stone.

Jac Jossa is pregnant! Goodness knows how fat she'll be after her second pregnancy.

Now they're bringing back Rainie ??

Don't they already have enough women over a certain age?

Shows up briefly Friday, but a big return in the Spring.

She’s a good actress. I guess John Yorke is following through with his plan to add more “strong women” to the canvas. I used to watch her in Family Affairs and her facial resemblance to Matilda Ziegler, the actress who played Kathy’s drug addict daughter, was striking.

Geez ... Johnny, one of Abi's peers, who's also a mate and worked with her at the pub, isn't even part of the mourners assembled at the Queen Vic. It would seem Halfwit was told to take his place among the props.

Halfwit looked upset and he’d never even met her!

Not early as big as your thick skull, r32.

RIP Abi. She really would have loved The Greatest Showman.

That's Lorna Fitzgerald's career over. She's pretty fug and won't get jobs elsewhere. Maybe pantomime.

What I really enjoy about this soap is that it's not fixated on looks like American soaps. It's real life, real people, real problems. Much easier to relate to than those crappy American shows where everybody drinks and fucks each other, and nobody works.

I hope Johnny enjoys Manchester.

Bravos to Martin for tossing that cunt Stacey out on her ear. How dare she tell Martin HE had to move out. Was she fucking kidding? I guess Kat will show up to throw him out in a month or so.

[quote] I hope Johnny enjoys Manchester.

I’m thinking.... QUEER AS FOLK reboot.

Hah, wrong channel, R542. Queer as Folk was on Channel 4 or ITV.

I have figured out that it's a woman who has the money from the robbery. It's not Mel or Ciara.. Anyone else care to guess?. Let's just say that the young lady involved might need to get the services of someone who could sew new clothes for her. She certainly has enough quid at the present time. She may have called someone she knew to intervene in Dover. She's not as dumb-looking as her mum.

Is it fat Bernie? She swapped the money for her newspapers?

Yes, R545! B was always within earshot of all the players in the heist. Wasn't she even watching Ben at the Arches at some point?

Just the fact that she took the blame for her brother throwing the brick through the teacher's car window at school, claiming that he would be better served by taking the exam (after basically berating his lack of intelligence on every other occasion) tells me that she has the loot and is keeping it a secret. She doesn't think she needs an education to be financially secure now.

I dunno, maybe she is merely a pawn, but she played a role in hiding the money. If EE is consistent, she will end up losing and having to face the wrath of Ciara or Aidan or, better yet, one of their minions. She's just thought of as a stupid chav, no?

Wasn’t it strongly hinted in tonight’s episode that Kim’s hubby has the money?

Well, if Vincent has it so does Bernadette. She begged him for a "job" at the Albert, after all. He may have sent her on dirty errands.

At what number of posts does one need to start a new thread?

Sorry, I'm aware that most of you English blokes are asleep with your hot British-Iranian or British-Ethiopian lover poking his tallywacker against your puckered brown eye. Sleep well, mates!

I'll be back and so will Steve Owen, mates. You heard it first here, don't forget!

Maybe Halfwit has it? How else could he afford that ring?

I think Vincent was just paranoid. He doesn't have the money. I still think that Bernadette at least knows where it is.

I theorized that Bernadette might have something to do with the loot over a week ago up in R516. Like I said, then, it was the newspapers for me. They're either a big hint, or something of red herring.

And yeah, R551, Halfwit is now another dark horse. Perhaps he's not as "half-witted" as the Carters think. But since he was seen helping move Ciara's belongings out of her house, maybe he stole the ring from her big stash of jewelry (the stuff Ben ended up selling), and that's all he has.

R549 Threads run to 600 posts.

CONGA!

OMG, how horrible was tonight’s episode? Why was Jack celebrating a week after his niece died?

Everyone in Walford must be completely desensitised to death by this point, R555.

R555 Jay too!

btw - Let Ryan take Lily, and have Kush & Martin hook up to form a family with Arthur and Hope.

^^^ Dream on, boys . . . . . . .

Please God Ryan takes Lily. She’s such a fucking irritating child. And she’s something like 9 years old but they keep writing her like a five year old.

So now there's no gay men left on the Square for the first time in 25 years. Well done, gay Executive Producers.

And rather bizarre for EE to be honoured several weeks ago with the "The Jackie Forster Gay Times Honour: Impact in Media, TV and Entertainment Award." How many more times are they gonna cart out that Mick and Johnny Carter scene?

Johnny left tonight to take up his law job in Manchester.

There's not a single gay man left on the Square. Unbelievable.

Tamzin Outhwaite really looks bad, doesn’t she? Like, did she walk in on her gorgeous husband Tom Ellis banging a twink or something and she hit the bottle?

Mick making a “ruby” was painful.

I guess Bernie will end up a chess prodigy.

Post a picture of yourself, r563.

Outhwaite is heading toward 48, not exactly spring chicken material, but damn good for her age considering she's had a minimum of nippiing/tucking.

And she makes more $$$$$ than you.

Get YOU, R565. And go fuck yourself. I’m actually kind of good looking. And I DEFINITELY make more “$$$$” than her. How the fuck would YOU know, anyway. You got some special device where you can see my face and bank balance? Piss off, you moron. You DO know Tom Ellis cheated on Outhwaite and that ended their marriage, right? Of course you don’t.

EVERYONE who can read knows that, r566........it's OLD news.

And we also ALL know the meaning of KIND OF GOOD LOOKING !

And WHY would I even care?

You really should call me, Mr. GQ, and set up an appointment. You appear to have some "ISSUES."

Is this that brit soap opera, where lee Ryan and Duncan James from Blue are part of ? I'm overseas and never watched it.

R568 Lee Ryan recently played Harry 'Woody" Woodward on EastEnders, but he was written off. I thought I read that "Woody" was supposed to return briefly, but I don't know if that's actually happening.

Duncan James is on "Hollyoaks," playing the closeted police detective, Ryan Knight, who murdered his bride, Amy, when she found out about his fling with a man on their wedding night. Ryan is currently facing exposure and fled the village last week, but he'll be returning with his story coming to a head.

Lee and Duncan regularly had sex. They were the original and best LARRY STYLINSON.

What's with Sharon's nasty weave and that orange spray tan? Positively awful.......is she trying for the Donatella Trump look?

Are Ashley and Dan supposed to make up for dumping Steven, Derek, Ben, and Johnny?

This tiff between the husbands seems like something that should have come up a long, long, LONG LONG time ago in the adoption process.

At least it's nice to know that Mariam and Arshad aren't homophobic.

Since Marc Elliott doesn't want to return as Syed, they should consider recasting. Make the character of Syed a widower (with Christian dying off camera), and have NuSyed and his daughter, Yasmin, move back to Albert Square. Then, introduce Darius Kazemi for him. .. Aunt Mariam and Uncle Arshad would love helping raise Yasmin (now going on 8-years old).

I hope Abi's body was cremated, especially with the refrigeration system conking out at the parlor. Or do they have der stashed in the hospital morgue.

What's the holdup with the funeral? So ridiculous.

I hope they kill off Arshad soon. I want to see her and Dot become close friends using their widowhood as common ground.

I hate the new old Asian couple, especially the one Masood calls 'chattergee'.

EE is hugely dull at the moment. I can't follow the Ciara/Sharon/Mel plot at all.

I love that Honey found out about Billy and Tina, and now she's going full-blown nutjob......SWEET!

Do Tina and Shirley ever bathe or shower? They always look greasy.

This new character Hayley seems promising.

How so? Her skin looked rather bad and those teeth are downright scary.

True, R578, but she seems interesting as a character. Nice husky voice. Maybe she can go to Lacey Turner’s dentist to have her teefs fixed.

I'm finding it incredibly show at the moment. The Ciara heist plot I can't understand at all.

Well, "The Heist" plot itself is basically over with, as Ciara got the bulk of her money back.

Now, we're just dealing with the fallout among the participants: Vincent's livelihood looks ruined; Phil (along with Ben) got played by Sharon; Billy got sacked by The Cokers due to the ensuing grave-robbing fiasco; Mick got shot, but, through Halfwit, was able to save The Vic with the purloined ring; and of course, one can only guess that Aidan and his Big Stick is going to be royally-pissed at EVERYONE. What will he do? About the only one who came out even is Keanu. I might guess that he'll get a job out of it. Phil's gotten to know Keanu now, and he's probably going to need someone to take Ben's place at The Arches.

Enough of this samosas shit.

Yorke's samosas have replaced O'Connor's bins.

And have I mentioned that I absolutely hate what they're doing to Vincent's character?

I can't bear Grandma Masood and Chattergee and pick up my phone whenever they appear onscreen.

EE needs some young good looking characters to sex the soap up a bit. It still feels like a comedy with all this shite about samosas and fake Valentine's cards.

Grandma Masood is OK but her husband HAS to be killed off.

Lauren said bye bye to Josh? Peter’s dick must be bigger.

[quote] Lauren said bye bye to Josh?

I guess I'd lean toward that conclusion. Maybe they want to leave it "open ended" on purpose.

And the bald ginger sack gets "Abi Jr." .. Ridiculous.

Because Tanya went ga ga? So stupid. So very, very stupid.

Jo Joyner’s monologue was fucking brilliant, though.

So Max called Abi Jnr STORMI too.

Is Chattergee going to die? He looks about 80 years old.

If the samosas and assorted condiments and are so great and wonderful, why doesn't Masood just run his own stall on the market like The Masood Family used to do? (See clip below.) It used to be right outside the cafe. There should be a vacancy somewhere now that hipster Felix recently opted to close up shop. Mate Robbie should have an in.

Oh btw - Bushra doesn't do stringy meat! ;-)

I think EE at the moment is at its worst, I can't see how it can come back from this.

It really is awful. And it won’t be improved by the return of Kat, Jean and Mo.

As someone who's only been watching for a little more than ten years, I have to agree with you R593. And since I'm not familiar with Yorke's previous stint(s), I'm trying to figure out what all the hoopla was about when he was installed last year.

Happy 33rd anniversary to EE. I think it’s a bad sign it’s not on tonight because of a scheduled soccer match.

Was the failing and in decline Magic Marv (MM) show meant to be a metaphor for EastEnders (EE) itself?

It seemed to be, R597. That was one of the worst episodes I’ve ever seen of ANYTHING.

SOC was slated for turning EE into The Archers, with a focus on comedy and community, but John Yorke is even worse. Whenever Grandma Masood and Chattergee come onscreen I just start scrolling through my phone. I think the drama between Stacey and Martin is really contrived and unrealistic. There are no interesting characters under 30 left.

Why did Ben, Lauren and Abbie have to leave? Why not dry roasted Denise and freeze dried Kathy and Carmel? Or hideous Ted and Joyce or Karen Taylor?

I agree about Chatterjee. I like Grandma Masood, though. Loathe Karen, Ted and Joyce. Like Carmel and Denise, though, and I think Kathy is actually one of the few bright spots on the show nowadays.