Tonya Harding biopic "I, Tonya"

Are we on [italic]Cops[/italic] again?

I hope they include the incident where LaVona beat Tonya with a hairbrush at the skating rink.

This is gonna be so beautifully trashy!

R1, it's kind of strange that Janney will probably do a lot of the same things she did in "Drop Dead Gorgeous," but because this is a biopic by respectable filmmakers and not a Denise Richards teen comedy, she might get an Oscar out of it.

Janney is terrific and she's been stealing scenes since at least "Ice Storm".

Look for me in the fight montage scenes.

It would be heaven if the filmmakers include Tanya's walking out on Connie Chung in the middle of her interview.

If Alison Janney plays this like Loretta in DDG, I'm first in line!!

Seriously doubt Janney can top Melissa Leo's performance of a white trash 'Momager' in "The Fighter."

Melissa Leo was great, and I adored the trashy daughters who followed her around. That movie is mediocre as a boxing movie but great as a comedy (which is fine, because I don't give a shit about boxing anyway).

R4 She was so good in Drop Dead Gorgeous!

Allison Janney's character in DDG was the lovable drunk friend. Lavona Golden was an abusive bitch and I can see Janney tapping into that and the character might not be like Janney's portrayal in DDG.

Teaser is out.

Who will play the equine Nancy Kerrrigan?

Is Sea Biscuit still alive?

Anna Faris would have made an excellent Tonya.

I hope they include Lavona telling her daughter that she's going to end up a fat ugly waitress just like her! Tonya had all that talent and ended up fulfilling her mom's prophecy instead.

I also wish they'd include Nancy making fun of Oksana and complaining on the Disney float!

[quote] Tonya had all that talent and ended up fulfilling her mom's prophecy instead.

Now, now. To be fair, Tonya is not working as a fat waitress. She runs a mow and blow business in Oregon, instead.

Oh, crap. Oregon's most infamous resident now has an "artsy, indie" movie. Good Christ. I cringe as a native Oregonian.

I'm sure there's a new "The Fast and the Furious" installment coming out soon for you, R18.

Janney is WAY too old for that role as the mother.

[quote]Who will play the equine Nancy Kerrrigan?

This is the actress playing Nancy. She's too pretty for the role imo.

bump

R19, haven't seen any of those films. I am not against Tonya or indie films. It just seems odd to do a film, I mean the scandal has been gone over ad nauseum. Also, the knee-capping thing happened when Oregon was going through a senator sex scandal, so it was not the state's finest moment.

Anyway, Tonya's had a tough life. Perhaps she will get some film residuals and the film isn't too horrible in its depiction of her.

R9 Melissa Leo is playing Dorinda Medley in the Fighter.

It’s nice to see Janney get some praise after stinking up that Six Degrees of Separation revival.

This looks good, in a To Die For kind of way.

I will see this on opening day then hang out in the bathroom until it is time to slip in for a second viewing.

I love Allison and am on record as nominating her for DL icon status.

I love Allison too. Drop Dead Gorgeous is one of the funniest movies ever, and she stole every scene as Loretta.

"You guys want some shots? I'm buyin'."

[quote]Anyway, Tonya's had a tough life. Perhaps she will get some film residuals and the film isn't too horrible in its depiction of her.

Why in the world would you think she'd get any residuals?

"Jeff Gillooly". That shit still cracks me up.😂

This movie is WHACK!

Is this a made for TV movie?

R32 It's not a TV movie.

Janney also had a great small part in "Primary Colors"

I doubt Tonya will get residuals, but the filmmakers have probably given her something to keep her from causing any bad publicity.

Uh, R35, with a movie like this they'd love some bad publicity from Tonya.

"Do ya think a nice cool mint would help if I shoved your head up your ass?"

[quote] I am not against Tonya or indie films. It just seems odd to do a film, I mean the scandal has been gone over ad nauseum. Also, the knee-capping thing happened when Oregon was going through a senator sex scandal, so it was not the state's finest moment.

What does Packwood's sex scandal have to do with whether a movie should be made or not? If anything, the news reports of the unfolding sex scandal could provide a nice back drop as Harding's own scandal unfolded.

Yes, the whole case was gone over ad nauseum, but that was 25 years ago, a whole generation ago, so a lot of movie goers will find the subject new. For the rest of us, it can be a stroll down memory lane.

"I says to Annette, I says if you talk to me when I'm watchin' my stories, you might as well be talkin' to the wall. You guys want some beers?"

I'd watch this. Hope both trashy Tonya and prissy Nancy are terrible characters. Hope to hate them both though I have a soft corner for Tonya.

What shit r30?

Saw this at HIFF 25...absolutely brilliant. Janney is fantastic but they all are,met the main players and director at 1770 House in East Hampton later that night,all very pleasant and it could well be Oscar material...much better than "Marshall" which we all being fed as a masterpiece,no good.

R43 I was worried about Margo being too pretty for the role, does she pull it off?

[quote] I was worried about Margo being too pretty for the role, does she pull it off?

Some thought she shouldn't have been introduced as 15 year old Tonya but she was fine...luminous in real life and very unassuming.

R43 do you think Sebastian Stan will get nominated?

Maybe,all four of them could get a nomination but Janney's portrayal will stay with you for a long time.

Margot Robbie plays 15 year old Tonya Harding?? And they say my role was a stretch.

Watch it first,comment afterward.

[quote]I was worried about Margo being too pretty for the role, does she pull it off?

In most based on a true on story movies the actors are always too pretty or handsome for the people they are playing. The actress playing Nancy "Horseface" Kerrigan is also too pretty for the role.

This was Tonya around 15. I think Margo can pull it off.

R46 Ugh! is it as bad as when Judy Davis took over too early for Tammy Blanchard in that Garland biopic?

R30 I remember he changed his surname to 'Stone' after the scandal.

What is the point of this movie? It doesn't end well for Tonya.

I disagree with the other Oregonian complaining about this movie. It's about fucking time Tonya was made into an icon. She's overdue.

Of course, I wished Tonya would have called me over the ensuing years; I would have been pleased to help her with her fashion issues. She was one of my inspirations to do costumes, as she was a poor Oregonian, too, as a child, who craved glamor.

Nancy Kerrigan wasn't well-off, either. A lot of people forget that or don't know. Her family's quite trashy, too. She just looked the part of a star skater (her talent notwithstanding) and was feted as such, which got Tonya's goat. Kerrigan was also a dedicated skater and it showed, while Tonya could be very lazy. I hope the movie addresses that Tonya could have had it all if she'd not squandered her chances.

^She was a lot more well off than Tonya was... most importantly she had stability. Strike that... most importantly she didn't have a mother who beat her with a hairbrush... probably only because Brenda couldn't find her daughter standing in front of her face.

The Kerrigans had their later scandal when Nancy's brother killed the dad.

They were both lackluster cunts; I was an orphan for crying out loud!

I remember when Loni Love inadvertently referred to Oksana Baiul as 'Osama Baiul' during one of those I LOVE THE '90s programs. haha

R61 I remember that too. I was hooked on those I Love the 80s and 90s shows. Most of the panelists were hilarious. I loved that nobody corrected Loni when she said Osama Baiul. I also remember Michael Ian Black making fun of the Jeff/Tonya sex tape.

Tonya was pure white trash, but you couldn't help feeling sorry for her. She had a miserable upbringing.

R62 they recently did I LOVE THE 2000s over the summer. Not as bad as when they did I LOVE THE '90s in 2004. That was too soon for that.

[quote] I remember he changed his surname to 'Stone' after the scandal.

He did? Well, fuck HIM!

Trailer is out!

Can't wait to see this!

I saw this at TIFF. The acting is excellent.

My problem with the film is actually the Nancy Kerrigan section. It goes on too long and it distracts from the best part of the film - the mother-daughter relationship between Tonya and her mother. Whenever Janney is out of the film, it loses steam and the film goes on another tangent to show the guys who carried out the hit and how they messed it up.

Is Sebastian Stan naked in this?

Allison Janney can play white trash like nobody's business.

Interesting r68 from what the other reviews said the Kerrigan incident is minimally covered in the film.

I hope Janney gets an Oscar for this. It's time. She's brilliant.

I agree, R72. It's like Loretta from Drop Dead Gorgeous is back, but this time she did have a kid.

God bless you for thinkin' I could still have kids r73.

For those who have seen the film, does it demonize Kerrigan? I don't have a dog in this race, but I hate it when biopics glamorize questionable people, and in the process make others look as bad (or worse) by comparison so the protagonist doesn't look too bad. I mean, it doesn't look like a straight up biopic.

I heard the movie was really funny, is that true? I can't wait to see it.

Why in the world should there be a movie about Tonya Harding? I remember a tv movie about her and Nancy Kerrigan long ago; that was certainly enough. She's really not worth making a movie about, although she did have a once promising career as a figure skater, which she totally sabotaged through her own poor decisions and behavior. Yes, she had a dysfunctional childhood (and a particularly awful mother) but her downfall was her own fault. She's not interesting at all; she's was, and is, just a white trash girl/woman.

Do they re-enact the honeymoon sex tape?

[quote]For those who have seen the film, does it demonize Kerrigan? I don't have a dog in this race, but I hate it when biopics glamorize questionable people, and in the process make others look as bad (or worse) by comparison so the protagonist doesn't look too bad. I mean, it doesn't look like a straight up biopic.

I haven't seen the film, but I am curious about how Kerrigan will be portrayed. In real life, many people felt sorry and admired Kerrigan until a few things came to light like the Disney parade incident and the footage of her making fun of Oskana Bauil crying. Many saw her as a diva and not America's sweetheart.

Dear Lord in Heaven!

Kerrigan isn't really a character in the film - she's kind of a cypher. There is no attempt to develop her as a character. I guess, legally, they couldn't so she is treated as someone who is the elephant in Tonya's life but is not a direct part of her life.

The focus on the Kerrigan assault is more about the men who instigated the attack and their blundering attempt to hurt her.

No one cares about Tonya Harding in 2017. Anyone under the age of 50 doesn't know who she is. This movie will bomb spectacularly.

Did Tonya's mother really stab her?

It's a life like a reality show, even if people have forgotten her, they'll want to see the movie.

I was in high school when all of this happened and I can remember it so vividly. And then of course OJ happened right afterwards. It was such a weird year.

"It was such a weird year."

It was such a weird DECADE. The eighties were full of insane shit: Tony Harding, O. J., Jim and Tammy Faye Baker, the Menendez brothers, Oliver North and Iran-Contra, The Preppie murder, satanic panic, the dimwit Ronald Reagan. God, the eighties sucked.

Nancy/Tonya and the OJ murders were squarely in the 90s, R86.

The Menendez brothers murders happened in 1989, but their televised, high-profile trial was in 1993/1994.

Fuck you, R86 for not mentioning it... the bitch who started it all!!!

Oh, that's right. In 1992 we had Amy Fisher & Joey Buttafouco (sic). Then in '93 the Menendes trial started, then in early '94 Tonya/Nancy, and in June OJ.

Olympic Princess Nancy was pissssssed she'd lost to Oksana.

The photographers were asking for another photo of the three medalists together, Olympic Princess B*tch Nancy had yelled, "Why do you want another photo? All she's going to do is start crying, again!"

r91 that's when Nancy's American Princess image got tarnished, and then shortly after that she was caught on camera bitching about being in some parade at Disneyland or whatever it was.

R91 that's not what happened. Nancy was caught on camera bitching about the medal ceremony. It was taking too long to get it started and Nancy assumed (was probably told) that it was because Oksana was putting on makeup. She bitched about there being no point because she was just going to go out and cry and ruin the makeup anyway.

In actuality, it was taking so long because as a fairly new nation, they couldn't find the Ukranian national anthem.

R91 that's not how it went down. The thing was, Kerrigan and Baiul ended up tying. Many assumed that Kerrigan had won, and she'd even been congratulated. But then Baiul was announced as the winner by one point in artistic (in technical Kerrigan did better). Then they had trouble finding the Ukraine national anthem. It had only been a few years since the fall of the USSR. It was during this time that Nancy was told that it was taking so long to get the medal ceremony going because Baiul was getting her makeup ready, when in reality they couldn't find the Ukraine anthem. So Nancy said, "What's the point? She's just going to cry again, anyway."

Then that Sunday (after she'd return from Lillehammer), she was in a Disney World parade and they told her to display her bronze medal as she waved to the people on the streets, which she found corny; she just wanted to wear it around her neck.

Anyway, both instances were caught by a microphone or something, so it wasn't like Kerrigan said it while she was being interviewed. And who wouldn't understand her frustration. So I give her a pass 'cause she's otherwise pleasant in interviews. She doesn't generally bath-mouth people.

Ummm, yeah . . . sure, Nancy (R93) -

Your post makes no sense, R95. You must be Brenda if you couldn't see what happened.

What I find hilarious is that the US Judge gave the Technical edge to Baiul. A lot of people don't realize that.

Nancy won the silver, R94.

Oh, crap, I mixed her up with Nancy Kwan, who also was heavily favored in 2002 but wound up with Bronze. I believe Kwan also has silver from '98, which she also was heavily favored to win. Damn, what an also-ran she turned out to be. And I believe she was originally going to go to Lillehammer, but she was dropped to give the spot to Kerrigan, who many had pegged to win the event (Nationals?), which Tonya won and Kwan placed second.

BTW: I think there's something to psychics. I remember watching a news segment the night before the women's long program. Kerrigan had excelled and placed first in the short program, so she was the favorite. Not to mention she had the sentimental vote (from the public), so to speak. They were interviewing people from Kerrigan's neighborhood who were rooting for her. They also interviewed a psychic from Boston, who predicted that Kerrigan would definitely come home with a medal but it would not be gold; instead, he said she'd win silver. I was, like, they'd better hope he's wrong! haha

You mean MICHELLE Kwan! Go to bed.

90s figure skating was so trashy and full of drama. You had Tonya/Nancy, Nicole Bobette and Christopher Bowman dying from drug overdoses, Surya Bonaly and her trashy mother, Johnny Weir and Rudy Galindo daring to skate openly gay in a flamboyant fashion. It was pure heaven!

Everybody remembers the knee-bashing incident, of course, but Tonya almost getting disqualified and stopping her performance at the Olympics is just amazing to watch.

"She'll skate to the music of Jurassic Park"

ROFL

"Nicole Bobette"?

Who is she? There's no such figure skater.

Nicole BOBEK is still alive.

Bobek now works concessions at an ice rink.

R106 which one?

R102 God, Baiul in the beginning there was so out of fashion. That look -- the tight ponytail and crispy mall bangs -- was passe by this time by several years.

It's all about the flair, baby!

r108 that hideous crispy 80s hair - tight spiral perm and mall bangs - was still worn by many women well into the 1990s. I think it was Marcia Clark who inadvertently killed that hairstyle for good. At the beginning of the OJ trial she got a lot of snark for her 80s perm. Lots of comments about how unprofessional and out of style it was. She changed her hair shortly after. That finally put the nail in the coffin for that dreadful hairstyle.

Oksana should have lost for her style. Either way, she was an upstart and from my limited knowledge of figure skating the plucky upstart always win. Kerrigan imho was the better skater however, she has 0 personality and was pretty inarticulate in interviews. I forgive her for having to go home with a silver and then be less than happy to go to a Disney parade. In a way it makes me like her better.

I have F&F the person who did not know Tony, OJ and the Menedez Bros were in the 90s

I just can't even...

Tony=Tonya

R110 I'm from Massachusetts and that style was pretty much dead by 1994. In my neck of the woods, most girls were sporting that hideous Demi Moore bob from Ghost by 1991, and by '93 hip-hop and grunge fashions were in Those who still had the crispy mall bangs were desperately out of style. Maybe they were like Daisy Fuentes, who admitted in I Love the '90s that she had a hard time giving up her big hair and hairspray in the early '90s.

R114 the girls that continued with mall hair well into the 90's were usually from a lower socio-economic class.

PS Demi sported the Linda Evangelista bowl cut which she looked amazing in, IMHO.

Nicole Bobek is a circus performer.

Bobek should have been a breakout star in figure skating, but her laziness and dysfunctional family life did her in. She had no work ethic at all because her two moms switched coaches every time they felt Nicole wasn’t getting their undivided attention. So many great qualities in her skating, especially her gorgeous spiral sequences, but she was just too trifling and unmotivated.

Oksana is overrated as a skater. She won by using her hands-WTF? And her coaches and Viktor Petrenko used and exploited her. Then she had a serious growth spurt and became quite homely. She was never really pretty, but her face got really busted when the puberty monster hit. Then she became a drunk. Her nickname on several figure skating websites was “DRUNKSANA”. Katarina Witt was the last truly marketable ladies champion the sport had.

I hate how everything is a cynical kistch joke now.

I remember Katarina Witt skated to the score of SCHINDLER'S LIST. She did well, if I recall correctly. Of course, they weren't going to give her THREE consecutive gold medals.

The movie looks funny, but I really hate how Tonya’s story is being rewritten as time goes on. The attitude seems increasingly to be that she was held back by snotty sexist judges for being a bad girl and poor.

Tonya was never held back from winning a title or participating in a competition she rightfully earned. But she squandered her own talent and then blamed everyone else for her shitty choices. She’s still doing that today!

This movie is going to further solidify the “Tonya was a victim too” narrative and it bugs me.

Katarina skated to "Where Have All The Flowers Gone" and it was about Sarajevo.

R121 same here. She gets a major motion picture about her that could be an Oscar hopeful AND she gets to be played by Margo Robbie. Amy Schumer would've been a better fit.

[quote]Oksana is overrated as a skater. She won by using her hands-WTF? And her coaches and Viktor Petrenko used and exploited her. Then she had a serious growth spurt and became quite homely. She was never really pretty, but her face got really busted when the puberty monster hit. Then she became a drunk. Her nickname on several figure skating websites was “DRUNKSANA”.

Shee iz fett kriminul!

My bad! Just did a quick search, and Witt skated to "SCHINDLER'S LIST at that year's World Pro Championships. Thanks for the correction R122.

R124 I don't get it. Who is that? And what is the MM connection?

r115 is correct. By the early 90s, permed hair was déclassé and lower-class.

Oksana "Pasha" Grishuk is a wonderfully delusional ice dancer who hates Oksana Baiul with every fiber of her being. She considers herself the Marilyn Monroe of skating.

Amy Schumer does look a lot like Tonya Harding.

Pasha interview where she speak of her SUPREME CONFIDENCE

R128 why does she hate Baiul?

Margot Robbie's accent in the trailer is hilarious, she really got the white trash speech down!

I had a big crush on Christopher Bowman when I was a kid. He looked like Ryan Idol's younger brother. I can't believe he died from a drug overdose.

Jealousy, R131. Before Oksana crashed and burned, people would mix Pasha up with Oksana, which really pissed off Pasha (who changed her name from Oksana because of it). When Oksana's drinking problem first started making headlines, Pasha was delighted and referred to her as a "fat criminal."

I can't find it on YT, but Pasha did a really cringy bit for a personality profile during the Olympics ('98?) where she dressed up like Marilyn and sang "Happy Birthday."

R128 you forgot to mention something, "Pasha," hated Oksana so much... or rather she claimed to hate her and yet SWF'd Baiul every chance she got... the laugh... the hair... the music she skated to....

AGAIN, You B*thes are slipping!

Everybody is talkin' Tanya-This-and-Tanya-That . . . Yet not one word of "Aqua Net" or "Spritz Forte" in the same sentence!

Video review by Christy Lemire, Matt Atchity and Alonso Duralde. Absolute raves, apart from some cringy song choices.

Currently has a score of 78 on Metacritic and 8.4 from Top Critics on RottenTomatoes.

[quote] apart from some cringy song choices.

Leave Tonya's program music out of this!!!

I remember loving Julie Brown's parody of the moment when Harding's skate came untied at the Olympics.

(what was that from btw? Did Brown have her own show or was it on some other show?)

For R139

thanks r140 OMG Stella Stevens is the mother!!! Linda Rogo!!!!

A DVDRIP copy is now up, if you know where to look.

Robbie can't do accents

R143 I posted about that in another thread. I was surprised no one was commenting on the weird Mid-western accent she gave Tonya.

Where, R142!

If she can't she does not deserve a nomination

R145 torrent

R142 Thanks!

R145 Go to tvmuse.com, type in the full title (with the comma!) and scroll down to the comments. The poster with the yellow elephant has the proper link.

R145 rmz.cr

Thanks, R148. I've looked on Trrnt sites and never came across anything.

The movie also seemed to go out of their way to make it sound like Tonya had a better chance at Gold than she actually did and that she was the only one to land the Triple Axel.

If Natalie Portman earned her Oscar by becoming a Prima Ballerina and doing all her own dancing... Robbe deserves an Oscar for becoming an elite figure skater and learning the triple axel!!!

What I think is arresting about Tonya Harding's story is it illustrates how we're all dealt a certain hand of cards.

Tonya Harding did one thing exceptionally....skate. And she was capable of hard work. But the rest of her (looks, background, family finances, education, social skills, connections, intelligence) were average or below average. So, what happens to you when you do one thing really well, and then you blow that?

Tina Turner's tell-all was called I, Tina. This sounds too similar, and Tina should sue for copyright infringement.

[quote]And she was capable of hard work.

She was? When?

Good point, R154.

And we're gonna sue Tina!

[quote] I hate how everything is a cynical kistch joke now.

The 90s made that de rigueur.

The problem with Tonya's story that she couldn't catch a break from the judges because she wouldn't play the game is that it doesn't hold water.

There's not a single competition that she can point to where she didn't get the scores she deserved. When she received low scores, it's because she didn't deliver. When she hit, she got the scores and they placed her at the top (Nationals, Skate America).

R155 She was [capable of hard work]? When?

Throughout years of grueling skating practice?

She didn't come out of the womb doing a triple Axel.

Nancy in Disneyland

[quote]The 90s made that de rigueur.

And the internet cemented it.

I felt sorry for both of them at the time.

I think though, the film says something about the aesthetics and further lowering of our times.

The mid-90s was a period of changes and the sinking started then. There was still a tiny bit of the past and the media's sympathy went to the victim of the attack, who appeared to be more normal. Now in the Game of Thrones Porch Pirate Torture Porn Kardashian age, a movie celebrating Tonya.

The lead actress was terrible, accent off, doesn't look like Tonya. The film was aggressively nasty and while it clearly aimed for camp it was never funny. Janney and Sebastian Stan were the only redeeming parts

She came from the wrong side of the tracks and she made shitty choices but she did work hard and gave the people a great story. In this day and age when the fucking Menendez brothers and Scott Peterson are getting sympathetic shows made about them, why shouldn't she? At least she didn't fucking murder anyone, like that bitch Nancy's brother did.

No, but she hired someone to hurt the competition and give her an unfair advantage. That's unethical.

The film does a good job of presenting Tonya's side (the judges hated her, etc.), other perspectives (her obvious lies) and Allison Janney is just funny (fuck stupid, but don't marry stupid). Gilooly and his friend Sean are classic. There's enough actual footage interviewing the principals to know that they got essence of the people and the story.

[quote]fuck stupid, but don't marry stupid

At least I did the former but hesitated at the latter.

I had no idea about how awful the domestic violence was, Gilooly was a psycho. If that kind of violence happened today, he would be in jail but back then times were different.

r162 did you even see the fucking movie? If doesn't celebrate Tonya at all.

I'm still waiting for it to come out where I live.

" With a transformative performance from Margot Robbie as Tonya and an unforgettable turn from Allison Janney as her mother, you'll come away with a better understanding of the life behind the tabloid headlines. You might just find you like her, too."

[quote]Throughout years of grueling skating practice? She didn't come out of the womb doing a triple Axel.

Hahaha. Nope.

Are you familiar with Tonya's story at all or is your information coming straight from the movie? I'm not asking that to be snarky either.

The movie does a great job of glossing over a lot of Tonya's bad habits. Everyone associated with Tonya, and Tonya herself, have talked about how lazy Tonya was. Tonya was the classic example of how natural talent can only take you so far. The fact that she had so much raw talent and wasted it by NOT working hard and cultivating it so she could be greater than she was is exactly what makes her tragic.

Tonya had a history of skipping practices, drinking, partying and smoking instead of doing the work she needed to do. Her coaches talk about it and Tonya admits it. She wouldn't do the work because she was "stubborn" and believed that she could just "muscle her way through" it with "grit and determination."

That's why she basically only skated a handful of clean programs her entire life.

Again, one of the problems some people have of the film is that it only touches on Tonya's laziness lightly. They do that quick montage of her skipping practice, playing pool, smoking, and her saying twice that nothing is ever her fault. Tonya was known for always having an excuse when in reality it was that she just wouldn't do the work.

[quote]did you even see the fucking movie? If doesn't celebrate Tonya at all.

To be fair R169 a lot of people come out of the movie with different thoughts. A large majority of people walk away feeling more sympathetic towards Tonya and I would say that is because the film, in my opinion, makes Tonya out to be a lot more innocent in the whole thing than she is known to have been. They clearly paint her and Jeff having no clue (Tonya much more so) than Tonya may have had. So in that respect, they clearly chose a side in what version of events they wanted to tell.

Everyone involved BUT Tonya has said she was involved in the actual planning. In the movie they only touch on one person in her life thinking that she did it. In reality, all those involved said she knew, the community and even her friends suspected she was in on it.

[quote]I had no idea about how awful the domestic violence was, Gilooly was a psycho.

That was based on Tonya's version of events, which I would take with a huge grain of salt. She claimed that shortly after the attack on Kerrigan, Gilooly and a gang of his friends drove her out to a remote location, gang raped her and then held a gun to her head warning her that if she ever told anybody he was behind the attack, he would kill her. But to the FBI, she explained that the reason why she didn't tell on him was because he was someone she really "cared" about. The rape accusation came later, after it was all over and she realized no one was buying her claims of complete innocence.

I am sure there was violence between them, but I am also sure that Tonya dished out plenty herself.

R174 there's an infamous interview with Dody who says she knew about the violence but she also knew Tonya could dish it as well as she could take it. In the movie, they portray Tonya as only violent in reaction to others... those close to her say that isn't all that accurate.

Did they fictionalize how long Jeff knew Eckhardt and how close they were?

Tonya has repeatedly said that she only met Shawn after the attack when Jeff forced him on her as her, "bodyguard."

On ET or some program, Tonya gave an interview where she explained why she got divorced from her second husband. She told a story of how one morning her husband was trying to be playful which she was not in the mood for. She told him to leave her alone until after she had her coffee and if he didn't, she would "put him to the floor." He tried tickling her, so, according to Tonya, she grabbed him by the balls and put him to the floor.

Right there she was admitting she physically attacked her husband, because he was pissing her off.

[quote]I can't find it on YT, but Pasha did a really cringy bit for a personality profile during the Olympics ('98?) where she dressed up like Marilyn and sang "Happy Birthday."

You're welcome.

And if you haven't seen it before.... it's a MUST.... and you're welcome.

[quote]R172 Tonya had a history of skipping practices, drinking, partying and smoking instead of doing the work she needed to do. Her coaches talk about it and Tonya admits it. She wouldn't do the work because she was "stubborn" and believed that she could just "muscle her way through" it with "grit and determination."

But, didn't she have to put in years of hard practice at some point? I thought she started lessons when she was seven or something.

I should have said "and was [italic] at one time [/italic] capable of hard work."

Maybe it was all a breeze for her. I just imagined one had to put in hard work to be an Olypian athlete.

Does Sebastian Stan get naked ?

R152 If Natalie Portman earned her Oscar by becoming a Prima Ballerina and [bold]doing all her own dancing.[/bold]

Sue Jan!

R181 you clearly missed the joke.

I think people are mixing up the Ellen Barkin and Allison Janney characters from DDG.

R179 let's put it this way, Tonya took lessons and she practiced. Whether or not she worked hard in any of those lessons and practice sessions is debatable, although, according to both of her coaches, she didn't work hard and she didn't work consistently. She certainly wasn't working harder than Ito, Yamaguchi, or Kerrigan, who were all training while still going to school (Tonya had the "luxury" of dropping out in the 10th Grade and being at the work all day). She certainly wasn't working harder than Yamaguchi who was training both Pairs and Singles (and going to school) until about 90/91.

And that's sort of what is amazing. She wasn't working as hard as the others nor was she even remotely pushing herself, and she was ranking among them and in some cases beating them. Imagine what she could have done if she had understood the value of working hard.

R183 I recently rewatched DDG and thought to myself, "why does everyone rave about Janey in this?" She's barely in it.

[quote]R148 that's sort of what is amazing. She wasn't working as hard as the others nor was she even remotely pushing herself, and she was ranking among them and in some cases beating them. Imagine what she could have done if she had understood the value of working hard.

Thanks. I didn't know that.

I've seen it twice and, these days, I can barely sit through a movie once. I thought Robbie was great even if she is taller and better looking than the real thing. Janney does her Janney thing but she's full blast here and deserves an Oscar. The woman steals every fucking movie and tv thing she's in. Her role is much larger than I thought it would be and she seems to have almost as much screen time as Robbie. I hope it does well award-wise. Definitely worth seeing.

I seriously thought the best thing about the movie is how they hellbent they seemed on nailing Tonya's costumes, music and choreography.

The trolls who want this to be all about Tonya being a bad person obviously haven't the movie---she get characterized as a lazy repeatedly and even admits to it. Obviously she had to be practicing once in awhile to reach her level of competition--- she smokes, she drinks., she's not an angel. Gilolly seems equal parts stupid, violent and naive---I've known guys like him and the proportions are believable.

We see him fucking her a couple times, but no major nudes with Sebastian.

Uh... who here said they wanted it to be about Tonya just being a bad person? And in what part of the movie does she admit to being lazy?

She's portrayed as lazy throughout the movie. She's got the talent and she wants the awards and recognition because she thinks she deserves it. But she's also a smoker, a drinker and she was out partying when she should have been practicing. She starts to take it seriously when she realizes she'll be stuck waiting on tables for the rest of her life if she doesn't. I thought her sentence for whatever involvement she had in smashing Kerrigan's knee was way too harsh.

Tonya Maxene Harding

The punishment needs to fit the crime.

"On June 30, 1994, after conducting its own investigation of the attack, the USFSA stripped her of her 1994 U.S. Championships title and banned her for life from participating in USFSA-run events as either a skater or a coach."

Much too harsh.

Just finished watching the movie.

Wow, did they completely fictionalize so many aspects of the story in Tonya's favor.

Tonya had Jeff call in the death threat for the regional competition she was supposed to skate in. It was a qualifier that she felt was beneath her, but was required to do, because she had not competed in a long while. She tried four times to get out of it and get a bye, but the USFA wouldn't give her one, because they wanted to know what shape she was in. Lo and behold, the day of the competition a death threat against Tonya is called in and of course, she can't compete so she got her bye.

The USFA banned her from the sport, not the criminal court. They did so after an investigation of their own. If they had not banned her there would have been major problems, because nobody wanted to skate with her, in amateur or pro competitions. That's why she never got to skate in all those television specials either. Sports writer Eileen Brennan covered this extensively in two different books she wrote about figure skating.

There were so many other details, like how the whole broken skate lace situation went down behind the scenes, that were told in a manner that made Tonya look very sympathetic, but were not accurate at all. And there were plenty of other things that Tonya did that got left out entirely.

If I was Tonya I'd be very grateful to the writer/director for rehabbing her image.

Did they leave out the porno movie she made?

Yes, R195.

I'm curious as to which specific scenes showed her being lazy.

The only one I recall is the fifteen second clip of her missing her alarm, playing pool, and drinking. Where else did they show she was lazy?

I don’t think being lazy was ever really Tonya’s problem. She’s someone who enjoys physical activity and working out, or at least she used to. I think being inconsistent and undisciplined was more the problem and part of it was wanting to do other things like drink beer and play pool and part of it was simple self-sabotage.

allison was perfectly pitiful in american beauty why the show MOM on TV is even ON TV is beyond me

the thing that helped kerrigan was them showing her practically blind mother watching her fucking skate with her face 2" from the TV screen so "she could see"........gee, i hope that is in the movie.

For me the best thing in the movie was the bodyguard/counter terrorism expert. He was straight out of a Coen Brothers movie.

I remember when that wacko former child star Paul Petersen was pissed that Jeff Gilooly was trying to change his name to Jeff Stone. If you'll recall, Jeff Stone was Petersen's character's name on the Donna Reed Show and he thought it was too good of a name for Gilooly to take and was giving interviews and petitioning against it.

The sports writer that wrote two books on figure skating was Christine Brennan.

Sebastian Stan has a nice ass.

Nancy Kerrigan has a cute gay son, they were on HGTV's Flea Market Flip together.

I'm watching it now on the Terrarium app on my firestick. It's great, the "I knew he loved her when he took her to a Richard Marx concert" line just killed me.

[quote]For me the best thing in the movie was the bodyguard/counter terrorism expert. He was straight out of a Coen Brothers movie.

What's fascinating is that all of those lines were lifted directly from shit he said (like in the interview below), as was a lot of the dialogue in the movie. You couldn't write a fiction story like this.

That being said, whatever Tonya's involvement was in this, you certainly can't talk Shawn's word for any of it. Every word out of his mouth is a lie.

I loved that line, r205. Comedy gold.

I've zero clue who Richard Marx is so I wonder how this movie will fare overseas if it's filled with country-specific quips like those. I've encountered the same problem with Lady Bird, but not with Three Billboards or CMBYN.

People who know the era will know Richard Marx.

Richard Marx was the perfect line. He really summed up the music of that era, especially adult contemporary radio.

She always seemed too chunky to be a serious skater.

One thing that I found absolutely appalling is how they not only neglected but changed one of the most important, key factors in this whole ordeal....

Tonya did NOT skate in an indoor rink! The fact that she skated in a mall was one of the biggest keys to Tonya's messed up life!

Even Nancy said she couldn't imagine what skating in a mall would do to a person!!!!

Jesus Christ r212, did she really say that? I wonder what our Darfur orphan would make of that. I used to ice skate at the mall all the time, it's where they kept the ice rink.

Yes, R213, I believe she made that statement in the 30 for 30 piece during the 2014 Olympics.

She was talking about how their lives were different and how Tonya didn't seem to benefit from stability and how she had to train in a mall and how she "couldn't imagine what that would do to a person and how demoralizing it would be."

Tonya skating in a mall was always one of the first things mentioned about her during her skating career.

Tonya had raw talent and "worked hard" to the extent that she developed that raw talent, but she did not have the discipline it takes to grow, improve and then eventually to even maintain her skills. She developed great height in jumping and great speed in spins, but when you're young, thin and strong and are a virtuoso on skates, that's not so tough. When you hit your 20s and your metabolism begins to slow and your body doesn't move the way it used to, you need to train, eat and live in a way that keeps you competitive. Tonya was not willing to do that. She was 20 or 21 when she landed the 3A and it was effectively gone after ONE season. She also stopped developing innovative jump combinations and spin positions, and the little headway she had made in artistry came to a screeching halt.

This is Tonya at 16 and you can see how much potential she had, especially if you know anything about the state of ladies' figure skating at the time (her jumps are way ahead of the top women in the world). Compare this to either of her Olympic routines and the regression of her skills is just painful to see.

R215 I was most interested in figure skating in this era, and I do remember how much more interesting to watch Tonya and Oksana and Nancy were compared to older skaters like Katarina Witt, who just sort of flounced around and looked pretty. I think Witt’s biggest jump was across the room from the sofa to the remote control.

[quote](her jumps are way ahead of the top women in the world).

What was that?

Katarina Witt was S E X Y !

Did Tonya really not have anything to do with the knee capping?

R219 all I did was hinder prosecution!!!!

She didn't do much to stand in Jeff's way.

R215, the commentators in Tonya's video said she was only 15. She is very graceful in that. Even her appearance is subdued. It seemed like she had a terrific basis for so much better than it turned out.

The Richard Marx line was priceless. I did have to explain to my companion (someone old enough to know the pop culture of that era) whc Marx was, but anyone with Google can do that without asking anyone.

As a senior in high school my friend bought me (for a joke gift) a Richard Marx notebook, a Nelson poster, and a Donny Wahlberg action figure. People in high school could figure out the aforementioned people were lame. I did secretly like this song later though.

R222 that was right before Jeff showed up in her life.

Any correlation?

I love the song Richard Marx wrote about killing his girlfriend! And I love it even more that it was a #1 song!!!!

I remember hearing someone dedicate that song to their girlfriend on one of those love request hours on the radio. Maybe it was Jeff!

Richard Marx, "Hazard" - melody rips off George Michael's "Hand to Mouth.

I also laughed out loud at the Richard Marx line. It's one of those "you really had to be there" moments.

80s white people rock = the epitome of white trash

Richard Marx wasn't rock, he was more adult contemporary.

Anyone edgier than Air Supply is a rocker.

[quote]Anyone edgier than Air Supply is a rocker.

I'm hard rock. That's why I skate to Neil Fucking Diamond!

IOC blocked it, the corrupt homophobic bastards.

R233 you can still watch it if you click on the Youtube icon.

I promise you'll cry from the beauty of my skating. Nobody has skated with more grace or passion!!!

Thanks, R234!

R217, Ito was hands down the best jumper of the 80s and early 90s. Maybe the best of all time. But the top women in 1986 were Witt, Thomas, Manley, Chin, Ivanova and Liestner. Harding (and Ito) were better jumpers than all of them.

I haven't seen the film yet, but I'm looking forward to it, especially the Richard Marx line.

I'm well aware of that R236.

And Ito was in a class of her own that Harding couldn't come close to.

That hair must have had more CFCs in it than a refrigerator.

I was shocked when I found out that Richard Marx married Daisy Fuentes.

One of the best lines comes when they're talking about how difficult the Triple Axel is and LaVona says:

"Fucking hurl yourself blindly three and a half rotations like you're light as shit, which I'm telling you Tonya never was."

[quote]That hair must have had more CFCs in it than a refrigerator.

Tonya's coaches and others around her tried and tried and tried to make her get rid of that frizzy 80s hair but she refused. The movie really gets into the "presentation" part of figure skating and how female figure skaters are supposed to look "classy." Tonya did herself a big disservice by clinging to the big trashy hair and trashy makeup and the horrid sequined skating outfits. She just refused to listen to people who were really trying to help her.

I meant Richard Marx, R242, but thanks for that anyway.

What's interesting about the triple is that Tonya said it was her upper body strength that gave her the extra oomph she needed to land it. With Ito, people have speculated as to why she was able to do it, but nobody really knows for sure.

[quote]With Ito, people have speculated as to why she was able to do it, but nobody really knows for sure.

With Ito, what I've always found shocking was how loose her leg wrap is. Take a look at it while she does the Triple Axel. Just how she gets that height and rotation with her wrap so loose is amazing. I wonder if her being bow legged helped her jumps somehow.

[quote]I wonder if her being bow legged helped her jumps somehow.

That's what commentators have said might be the reason, but none have been able to figure out [italic]why[/italic] that would help her.

Well, I'm wondering if she was able to garner more speed and/or had more strength in her legs than other skaters. When people commented she jumped better and higher than the men competing at the same time, they actually weren't exaggerating.

I have pretty severely knocked knees (turned inward, opposite of bowleggedness), and I can jump pretty high for no good reason otherwise. I think it operates a bit like springs, with the bends storing potential energy.

Christ, what a slog this was! I can't remember the last time I was so bored during a movie. Domestic abuse, shouting, knocking on the door... rinse and repeat. And the CG face was just cringy and also creepy at times.

Janney's is a winking devil panto performance. Why on earth is everyone so hard for her?

I didn't enjoy the movie either. It was too tilted in its portrayal of Tonya as a victim. Obviously, the writer is a fan of hers and wanted to her to be sympathetic while acknowledging that she cursed like a truck driver and could throw a mean punch. But it was just too biased for me. Too much dark, not enough comedy.

There's a part where Tonya says that you (meaning the audience) all abused me too when you laughed at me and didn't care about how hard my life was (or something to that affect) that was just a complete fail. Everybody that followed this case has been made aware of Tonya's abusive and unstable childhood. Even Nancy herself has acknowledged it and expressed a certain amount of compassion. We get it. Poor Tonya.

Tonya should have fled to some lesser known skating country and competed for them as a way to give the finger to the USFSA for banning her. I would have suggested coaching, but she'd obviously make a terrible coach. At the very least she could have gone to Japan and had a career skating topless. I'm sure those pep nips of hers would have gotten a pretty penny.

[quote]And the CG face was just cringy and also creepy at times.

What's the CG face?

r252 Cover Girl? That's what I assumed, shitty cheap makeup or are they saying CGI like her face was put on Tonya's body?

i think it is Computer Graphics........ that would be freaky .....

Just saw it. I thought Robbie's portrayal seemed like a bit of a caricature sometimes, and perhaps overly sympathetic. She portrayed Harding as someone unphased by violence, with punches rolling off her like duck off a water's back, while not being all that venomous herself. Even when lashing back she never seemed all that angry.

Towards the end of the film, pretty much once she gets to Lillehamer, Robbe seems like she's portraying Emma Stone portraying Tonya Harding.

[quote]What's the CG face?

Robbie's face they superimposed on the figure skater with CG during the more challenging (most?) routines.

I watched the BTS Special Effects video... it looked like they superimposed Robbe's face on all the sequences. Even on just some of the back crossovvers.

Link to the FX video.

R258 That's interesting. I'm now wondering whether Robbie even stepped on the ice at all.

And to think what other actors had to go through for their roles; Oldman getting nicotine poisoning, Chalamet learning piano and a new language, Hawkins getting her eardrums surgically removed...

[quote]I'm now wondering whether Robbie even stepped on the ice at all.

She was on the ice at times based on this video and another video that I remember seeing on DailyMail.

Thanks, r215, for posting that video. You're absolutely right -- it's so sad to see how much promise Harding had, and I was impressed in that that was a complete program, with interesting interconnecting moves and a beautiful back bend and Ina Bauer (sp.?). Her later programs were just the jumps. Oh what could have been. (And, BTW, Shostakovich probably did a triple Axel in his grave to hear his music described as "Arthur Fiedler's Festive Overture.")

[quote] and a beautiful back bend and Ina Bauer (sp.?).

Tonya kept the Ina Bauer in her routine through her entire career. It was one of her trademarks. It's just that as she got older and lazier, she started to bend her back less and less.

Did Tonya really break down at her sentencing, like in the film? That was very sad, and Robbie was excellent!

I don't think she did, R264.

I'm surprised that the film didn't mention that Tonya was forced to wear that disgusting dress for her Free Skate in Lillehammer. It never made sense to me that they didn't want her skating to her National's dress (which they considered immodest) and yet they let her wear that awful dress in her SP.

Has anyone seen this video?

Good Lord, they gave Surya the Tonya treatment.... they claim she was a lot better than she was and that she was the "ultimate outsider" and the bitch who wouldn't play by the rules...

Sorry, hon. That's Tonya's title!

But seriously, I can't with how they try to frame it that she was just this fantastic skater who the judges wouldn't give a shot. She could jump, sure, but she didn't skate. And you know, the sport is made up of both components so to have sour grapes that you only had one of those components and didn't win is pretty stupid.

And Frank Carroll is such a ridiculous bitch to defend her. I guarantee if Surya had ever beaten Kwan he would have been the first to bitch that the quality of Surya's skating was completely lacking.

I always thought that Bonaly would have been so much better as a gymnast than figure skater.

Allison Janney and Ellen caught sneaking around behind Portia's back.

This movie is surprisingly good!, Margot is brilliant as Tonya, the movie is also funny and engaging.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

[quote]Truth and Lies: The Tonya Harding Story airs Thursday, January 11, at 9p/8c on ABC

Have mercy. I wonder if she got any money for that.

I think it's hilarious she is finally [italic]finally[/italic] admitting she knew beforehand. Of course, she's never going to be completely honest--she has to be the victim always--but it's better than the complete denial of before.

I said this over in another thread. I feel like she's trying to now align her story with the movie's fictionalized account so she can ride that wave of sympathy.

Oh, definitely. But the movie said she knew nothing of the attack beforehand.

Well, not exactly, R273. The movie showed her being aware of a plan against Nancy.... to scare her in to not competing but then playing her off as not knowing anything else.

What's fascinating is that all of this went down, it was clumsy as all get out and seemed like a bunch of toddlers planned out the assault and if Tonya WAS in fact involved? How did she manage it so that there was no direct evidence of her being involved (other than the address).

The fact that they never had anything on her, and that Jeff recently said that there was a lot he did wrong with Tonya and ruined her life over... would almost make me believe she didn't know about it... BUT

Then you go back and watch her interviews at Nationals and directly after and every word that comes out of her mouth, by the way she speaks, is an obvious lie.

The movie should have ended the way the 30 for 30 documentary did... with her childhood friend saying, "Did Tonya do it? Of course she did."

[quote]Then you go back and watch her interviews at Nationals and directly after and every word that comes out of her mouth, by the way she speaks, is an obvious lie.

Haha I don’t know if this is what you are referring to, but after Nationals she kept saying, it won’t be a fair competition without Nancy! [I didn’t do it!] It’s not the same without Nancy. [I swear!] It won’t be a real fight without Nancy and believe me, I’m going to kick her butt. [See how guilt free I am?!]

Yeah, part of it R276! The way she says it, listen to the tone. She has a nervous tick to her voice when she lies.

She can admit it now because we are in the age of I, Tonya and HBO/Netflix anti-heroes.

I can't wait to see this movie! As for Tonya's part in whacking that sniveling horse-faced cunt Nancy's knee, does anyone really care anymore? I didn't care when it happened, and I certainly don't care now. Nancy made her millions off of the worldwide exposure it got her. If Nancy had any grace or class she would forgive Tonya and let it go, but no... I heard that during Dancing With The Stars, people were asking her about the "Tonya movie" and apparently implying "why are they making a movie about HER and not YOU?" to which Nancy became all bitchy and stormed away. Hahaha! Good! I hope that Tonya can make something positive and benefit somehow from this movie. When will it be showing in theaters?

R260 Hawkins getting her eardrums surgically removed

What?WHy?

Tonya gave an interview where she says she's so happy that the truth and that her side of the story is finally out there.

She is indeed trying to re-write history and act like the events in the movie are true to life.

Robbie's accent and line delivery was awful

Saw this last night and really enjoyed it. Allison Janney is wonderful.

The moral of this story is that heterosexuality is inherently abusive and both women and men are complicit.

Tonya says Stan is too good looking to play Gilooly so she hasn’t completely lost her mind.

Sloppy Steve lost his mind

Tonya needs to be forgiven, or people need to move on. The punishment needs to fit the crime. Tonya has long since paid her dues. Tonya knew more than she let on even if she didn't know everything--and yes, she is trying to rewrite history somewhat. However, skating was the only thing she knew, and it was completely taken away from her. She paid for this incident with her livelihood. She has been punished. Enough. Even hardened criminals eventually get out of jail unless perhaps they have committed murder. Tonya didn't come close to doing anything so heinous.

Yeah, let's all conveniently forget that the original plot against Kerrigan wasn't just to cripple her for life... it was to actually kill her.

I liked the movie, it has that black To Die For vibe that's always fun to watch. But the story is 100% pro-Tonya, and i'm not sure if that's the truth (i'm not from USA, i didn't really follow this mess): she's like an ice-skating Aileen Wuornos, a victim of her childhood, class, status and of course a victim of men. Speaking about men, Sebastian Stan is good (and looks adorable even with that moustache). His fat friend really stole the movie. I also agree that Margot Robbie looks like Emma Stone in this. It's quite distracting.

[quote]His fat friend really stole the movie.

I couldn't help but laughing at how he was not only a stupid bungler, but delusional as well; Lucy Ricardo was a better strategist.

[quote]Tonya says Stan is too good looking to play Gilooly so she hasn’t completely lost her mind.

Yeah, because she and Margot Robbie are about equal in looks, I'd say.

haha. Good catc, R291.

[quote] Yeah, let's all conveniently forget that the original plot against Kerrigan wasn't just to cripple her for life... it was to actually kill her.

Jeff and Shawn were liars and idiots. How can anyone take them seriously?

[quote]How can anyone take them seriously?

Yeah Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy would anyone take them seriously?

Maybe it's good that they were idiots. If they weren't, then they might actually have gotten away with killing Nancy, and then they would have been in deeper shit than they already were.

Her skating and dedication to her craft dwindled after her marriage to the punch king. That is what happens. I recall from the film that her skating and discipline markedly improved after she left him the first time, her coach even noticed it. That brutal marriage just destroyed her. Also police reports substantiated the veracity of the film. No matter what the haters in here say.

Havent any of you ever seen the damage stupid men like Jeff and Fat Sean can do? You sure as fuck dont have to instruct or participate w/ guys like that, a deeply disturbed Sean and a violent Jeff are completely capable of doing this while telling you virtually nothing. I have known company management that behaves this stupidly Ready Shoot Aim - the stooges.

Tanya’s life was skating that was ALL she had going for her - she didnt even want the fist throwing Jeff back in her life if you recall - they were deivorced and a restraining order was in effect. That if pretty serious - a matter of record. BUT she couldnt win if she didnt present a stable family. You would think that Gay people would have sort of feeling about THAT little societal bias. Tanya wasn’t going to destroy the one place she loved, the only place she found peace and besides she already knew she could beat Kerrigan - the point of this was ridiculous. Its pretty clear these idiots did the actual crime itself without her knowledge.

This film is not a whitewash, it presents the story accurately - and certainly the FBI investigation and subsequent assigning of punishment to Tonya stayed true. She paid the price, she wasnt involved in the violence, and her punishment was harsh. I am glad that the truth is told about Her having lived a life of horrific physical/emotional abuse as a small child. It is truly tragic that the only option she had was to leave her disgusting mother for Jeff’s face punches. At least she fought back. Her life is how domestic violence ends. Eventually you can get help and walk away from the nightmare - but at some point it will destroy you. Or you will do drugs and die. Or die from becoming like your abusers. It took Harding total ruin, destruction of all self esteem and rock bottom. Eventually she pulled herself out of the cycle of violence, having a child will do that to you. I have known plenty of women that realize they would never bring their children around their abusers. I applaud Tonya for that.

I have seen most of the performances & nominated films and I have to say “I, Tonya” is quite tremendous. Janet deserved that Golden Globe and will take the Oscar. Robbie deserves it too, but McDormand will likely win. The story of this womans life is not a pity party rewrite like the shallow Twats in here portray it. This is a cautionary tale of violence. Every kind of violence and how it breaks human lives. Its powerful social criticism for woke people.

For who?

Robbie use to play Ice Hockey - she is a solid skater.

Woke people. This is a movie for “woke people”. That have compassion and can grasp larger concept like damaged people, class bias, racism, ways in which powerful people abuse weaker people, etc. This movie will be lost on Skating Fan Girls and Boys. They wont see the forest thru the trees. Seen this other Tonya threads.

At 5:44 its worth watching her mother down play her violence towards her daughter. Its bad, real bad when another mother goes on COnnie Chung interview to tell the world she saw horrific violence to that tiny girl. A couple minutes after that she recounts how her 1st husband beat her “ans I kept going back.” Exactly where it all came from. That is why it is called “the cycle of violence.”

The movie IS a white wash. It white washes the fact that Tonya was lazy and didn't train nearly as hard as she should have. It also kept oddly touting her as better than she was. No, she was not the favorite going in to Albertville (they down play Yamaguchi being the favorite and that Yamaguchi beat her at Worlds) and kept increasingly making it sound like Tonya was the best jumper in the world. They go from stating she'd be the first "American" to land the triple axel to going on to say that she's the only woman attempting it.

And Robbe was NOT great in the role. She was fine, however as noted, she comes nowhere to being close to Tonya's accent (she does some weird midwestern accent) and all the shots of her on the ice are CGI, even the scenes with simple cross overs.

I've always found it interesting that Tonya has been pretty vocal about the judges that told her this or told her that, but she has never been able to name them.

[quote]Woke people. This is a movie for “woke people”. That have compassion and can grasp larger concept like damaged people, class bias, racism, ways in which powerful people abuse weaker people, etc. This movie will be lost on Skating Fan Girls and Boys. They wont see the forest thru the trees. Seen this other Tonya threads.

And then there are some that can't see how easily people use victimization as an excuse to not do better.

“And then there are some that cant see how easily people use vicitimization as an excuse to not do better.”

This right here. A shallow mind, a lack of empathy failing to recognize that people are not cookie cutters, some heal from profound abuse Others do not. “A pull yrself up by your bootstraps” kinda person. What drives a person to lack empathy? Trump has no empathy. Maybe a man that was well loved, well educated, beloved by family members. Assumes that his life, all well intact, is like everyone else’s.

In the year 2018 someone on a LGBT website has zero grasp of bias, zero compassion for a woman that was beaten and broken to such a degree beginning with her FIRST PRIMARY RELATIONSHIP as a human being that she married the same at the 1st opportunity. The real story is A self absorbed cold hearted prick thinks a woman that had fists and hands in her face her entire life should just get her shit together. Niiiccee. There is so much I could say about this lesbians experience of love with her brothers and illness and disease. But the one thing I would NEVER SAY - “You coulda done better than that sleezy guy.” But I can say this :You are a total fucking jackass.

^Yeah, but LaVona was abused so it's not her fault either.

Robbie doesn't deserve a nomination IMO

HAHAHAHA. Someone relates to victimization a little too much.

Better than M in that hoary glorification of old media hegemony.

Apparently she does R306 because some people are stupid enough to believe that her performance was exactly what Tonya experienced!

[quote] A self absorbed cold hearted prick thinks a woman who was involved in the attack of another person bears no responsibility because she was abused and so gets a pass.

In the skating scenes when they superimposed Robbie's face, who did the actual skating?

R311 you mean in all of the skating scenes?

The skaters used were Anna Malkova and Heidi Munger.

I doubt if Robbie will get an Oscar nomination. There were far more outstanding performances this year. She was good but, let's face it, Janney stole it.

Janney's gonna get Supporting Actress at least.

Robbie couldn't even get Tonya's accent correct. She wasn't great. She wasn't good. She was adequate.

R311 I did

Robbie is so overrated. Average actor at best and I don't find manjaws pretty or sexy she's not that good looking IMO

Why is Margot Robbie lying about her age? she's not 27! She's 33.

fake blonde

Great to know the names of the skaters. Robbie herself use to play ice hockey and Allison Janey actually took figure skating lessons for a while. They had basic knowledge.

Margot Robbie flashes the flesh as she poses topless in photoshoot

Margot Robbie acts the crap out of it but I could never get past how physically wrong she was to play her. During one scene I found myself marveling at her cheekbones and I don’t think that should happen when watching a film about Tonya Harding. Watch The Fighter and tell me you don’t think Amy Adams would not have made a perfect Tonya with the right hair and make up. A large reason why Tonya was perceived the way she was and treated the way she was in that cutthroat world is that she wasn’t considered “pretty.” Robbie looks like a beauty pageant queen. Again, I thought her acting in this was terrific but I just couldn’t buy her as that particular person.

Amy is 43 ten years older than Robbie

i love when they call "topless" a pic in which the tits are 100% covered. such BS.

Amy is almost old enough to play her mother.

[quote]Margot Robbie acts the crap out of it

You're right if you mean she gave a crap accent!

[quote]Margot Robbie acts the crap out of it

And she looks just like me!

Tonya explains it all on a 2-hour ABC News special Thursday night!

Kerrigan declined to be interviewed.

Suuure I believe Tonya would’ve been willing to “kill Nancy.” BS - NO waay - I can see a fantasy of 4 genuinely loser asshole guys, one her ex husband maybe. Never Nancy - she had the world to live for. I find it totally bizarre that someone is unable to comprehend that screw loose guys think like this ALL the time - esp when one of them is such a disturbed loon he even told a network reporter that he was a secret agent. Tonya didnt have to be part of this insanity these clowns were more than capable of creating this shitstorm by themselves.

Tonya... now your story is that you "overheard something," when your story for 25 years has been you knew absolutely nothing.

And in another 5 years it'll be that she knew what they were trying to do and she single-handedly prevented them from murdering Kerrigan so she should be a hero!!!!

Joker

Tonya claims she overheard Jeff and Shawn talking about it (despite her claims that she had never met Shawn.... despite the fact that he was her "bodyguard," despite the fact that she says he was never her "bodyguard," despite the fact that in 1994 she called him her, bodyguard." but that she told them to knock it off....

And then she claims that when the attack happened, the conversation she "overheard," never crossed her mind.

Bitch, please.

[quote]Suuure I believe Tonya would’ve been willing to “kill Nancy.” BS - NO waay - I can see a fantasy of 4 genuinely loser asshole guys, one her ex husband maybe. Never Nancy - she had the world to live for. I find it totally bizarre that someone is unable to comprehend that screw loose guys think like this ALL the time - esp when one of them is such a disturbed loon he even told a network reporter that he was a secret agent. Tonya didnt have to be part of this insanity these clowns were more than capable of creating this shitstorm by themselves.

Both Jeff and Shawn are to blame for the plan not going off. Jeff just couldn't hold it together and panicked when he escaped, and Shawn's delusions of grandeur were beyond belief. He was almost like a real-life Ignatius J. Reilly from [italic]A Confederacy of Dunces[/italic] extirpated of any sense of wit, erudition, or moral outrage. Take those away and he becomes a human version of Doofus from [italic]DuckTales[/italic].

[quote]Tonya explains it all on a 2-hour ABC News special Thursday night!

So who among us is willing to sit through this shit-fest and report back? I cannot. Compulsive liars set my teeth on edge.

Margot is 27? No fucking way. She looks 35. I'm not saying she looks bad. She's stunningly beautiful, but she doesn't carry herself like a 27 year old at all. There's something so grand about her.

Just saw Lady Bird and I’m absolutely voting for Laurie Metcalf over Allison Janney for the SAG Award. Janney is great spitting out those lines but Metcalf has a much more fully fleshed out character to play.

R337 why do you need the play by play?

It'll be two hour of Tonya proclaiming her innocence, blaming every one else around her, talking about how she was abused, and how she's happy that the "truth" has finally come out with the release of this movie. And oh yeah, some more proclamations of innocence and victimization.

Sorry, all Janney did, all any of them did, frankly, was just mimic the interviews they watched.

True R341 which is one of the reasons why I'm fed up with biopics, I'm never moved by actors impersonating other people.

[quote]It'll be two hour of Tonya proclaiming her innocence, blaming every one else around her, talking about how she was abused, and how she's happy that the "truth" has finally come out with the release of this movie. And oh yeah, some more proclamations of innocence and victimization.

True, but she can never stick to just one story. I would be entertained by the latest embellishments and bullshit. If I read about it. Actually watching her pisses me off.

[quote]True, but she can never stick to just one story. I would be entertained by the latest embellishments and bullshit.

Maybe she'll add that she knows for a fact that Nancy snuck in to her room in Albertville, scissored her (#metoo), and while doing so, took off the blades to her skates and intentionally misaligned them.

Oh and Nancy also cut her laces in Lillehammer.

I don't know, I really thought Robbie was pretty good and the part where they kind of bounced it off her and she said something like , "fucking do it or don't do it, I don't care, I need to practice." rang true, it's something I would probably say if those two dipshits were in my life doing that espionage shit.

R345 the fact that she says she has to practice is exactly what doesn't ring true!

You guys need to quit screwing around and do it already.

That’s what Tonya said to the crew at the rink, which also rings true.

Margot Robbie got closer to Tonya Harding than Tom Hanks did to Walt Disney.

Johnny Weir on twitter: "I am so over the glamorization of a villain simply because she was born on the “wrong side of the tracks.” While her upbringing may have been tragic, athletes come from all walks of life and succeed based on merit, not assault. I won’t applaud her and I stand for Nancy."

Good for him!

r349

FF r350.

Johnny Weir is a Russian apologist who defended them and made excuses for their anti-gay bigotry during the Sochi games. He's as bad as Tonya if not worse. At least there only Nancy got hit.

He is an Uncle Tom who makes Richard Simmons look like one of the Village People.

Johnny Weir can go fuck himself. He's like Seal - who gives a fuck what he thinks.

r351 New here? VOTD is de rigueur, hence that gif.

No, I'm not new here at all.

The movie was okay. The best part of it was Allison Janney, BY FAR. She stole every scene she was in.

And I never thought I’d find an orange dress remotely flattering, but there you have it.

Thread for the ABC special, Truth and Lies: Tonya Harding. Link below.

Tonya Harding is trash. Always was, always will be. This film is entertaining but it’s frankly laughable when she “accuses” us of all “attacking” her.

I loved the movie. I thought Margot Robbie was phenomenal--she delivered so much complexity to the role. Many of you are complaining she did not capture Tonya exactly, but I don't know that's really her job--this movie was supposed to be Tonya's and Jeff Gillooly's version of the events (as the opening title revealed), and of course she would depict herself as more victimized and more sympathetic than she was in real life. This is why also the movie does not allow any sympathy whatsoever for Nancy Kerrigan--because Tonya has no sympathy for her ("She placed fucking second, and she looks like she stepped in poop!").

I would definitely give Robbie the Oscar over McDormand or Ronan--she gives the more complex and nuanced performance. The scene where her old coach Dianne comes to meet her behind the restaurant and asks her to train with her for Lillehammer was a tour de force scene.

Janney was hilarious and a scene stealer, and gets (with the Shawn Eckhardt character) all the best lines, although this is the kind of performance she can do in her sleep. Her Lavona doesn't grow at all during the film the way Laurie Metcalf's character does in "Lady Bird," so Metcalf has the far better part.

The Shawn Eckhardt character could have stepped out of a Christpher Guest movie--he was hilariously stupid.

I was surprised Sebastian Stan gave the fine performance he did. He's got a great body but a strange face, with that enormous forehead, so he was well cast as Gillooly. I liked the strange juxtaposition between his high tenor, somewhat softspoken voice and his instant capability of revolting brutality when angered.

Unsurprisingly, it looks like from the photos today Tonya, Nancy, and Oksana have all had plastic surgery to tighten their skin (they are all over 40). Also unsurprisingly, Nancy's looks the best (because she has the most money--she had by far the best endorsement deals over Oksana), and might just be good Botox/fillers. Tonya's clearly had the works done, and though her eyes look pulled, it will probably settle down in a few months to look more normal, and the rest of her face job looks fine. She no longer has such a piggy nose, but the new nose does not seem all that unreminiscent off from her old one

Poor Oksana looks like she's been through hell. Hard living really took its toll. I think she was so unready to win over Nancy--as everyone has pointed out on this thread, she really shouldn't have, and only did because the judges were sending the Americans a lesson about how much they didn't want trashy scandal touching their elegant sport.

I watched it yesterday. Mostly loved it. I did think Robbie was miscast...but she's the one who apparently bought the rights and produced it so...She looked about 50 when introduced as Tonya at 15 years old. And Tonya not being beautiful was a big part of her problem. It could have been great with the right actress cast. Her accent didn't bother me as it did others. I'm kind of tickled thinking that Margot Robbie is going to have to spend the rest of her life ignoring calls and texts from Tonya Harding.

Oh, I forgot to post the link. Here it is.

I was not surprised to hear Shawn Eckhardt is dead given his obesity, and also how mercilessly the film treats him.

[quote] I think she was so unready to win over Nancy--as everyone has pointed out on this thread, she really shouldn't have, and only did because the judges were sending the Americans a lesson about how much they didn't want trashy scandal touching their elegant sport.

Disagree with this. People forget that Oksana was the World Champion going in to the Olympics. The sport was already putting their eggs in her basket. Oksana was fresh and skated with some semblance of passion, which the judges always reward. Nancy had more technical content, however skated around like it was a job she hated. Oksana had also taken a blade to the shin and bruises to the rib the morning of or the day before the free skate. The judges factored that in to. But everyone will debate who should have won until the end of time.

Tonya Harding and the seven other women skaters who have successfully landed the triple axel:

Loved the movie, have seen nearly all of the touted films and “I, Tonya,” “Darkest Hour” are my picks. Tonya is ok, she paid the price many times over, Nancy was never going to win more than she ultimately did win in the sport and it was those utterly idiotic guys that dreamed this horseshit up.

The consensus seems to be that Tonya was actually a terrific athlete amongst a bunch of skaters. There is clearly truth to that.

[quote]And Tonya not being beautiful was a big part of her problem.

I agree. To have her played by a pretty actress misses a big part.

I've seen a good deal of the best picture contenders - CMBYN, Lady Bird, Dunkirk, I, Tonya and The Shape of Water and I enjoyed IT the most.

Kristi Yamaguchi was plainer than Tonya, but the judges loved her. I always think the problem for Tonya was that she didn't know how to do makeup properly (she looked like what the DiPesto twins on "Bob's Burgers" call a "bathroom clown"), she had hideous permed hair, and she and her mother had such horrible taste in skating outfits.

Nancy Kerrigan was no oil painting, but she had tasteful pulled-back hair and nice taste in dresses--and then she had the good fortune to have Vera Wang become interested in her and start designing those spectacular skating outfits for her.

[quote] Kristi Yamaguchi was plainer than Tonya, but the judges loved her.

She was the only one with no personal drama surrounding her, so that allowed them to focus on her actual skating.

No, the judges loved Kristi because she balanced BOTH aspects of the sport. She had the technical difficulty and she had the artistry. She was also consistent. She was the poster child for what the sport was supposed to be.

Like I said, where was the drama in her life?

Where was the drama in Ito's life? Trenery's life?

Exactly. Kristi's life was pretty scandal-free compared to Tonya and Nancy, and even compared to Oksana Baiul after the fact. So that worked in her favor as well. She was a good skater, obviously, or she wouldn't have gotten as far as she did.

Prior to 1994 the only top skater that had any scandal in their lives was Tonya. So I don't agree that Kristi benefited from being scandal free and that allowed for the judges to focus primarily on her skating. Out of the top skaters through 1994, the only one who had that much baggage on them was Tonya. The most interesting thing about Kerrigan prior to getting whacked was her blind mother, Brenda. Hardly anything that the judges would get distracted over.

And of course, a woman of color's success gets overshadowed by two white women acting ugly.

Is Margot Robbie really only in her late 20's? There's something about her that reads late 30's or early 40's. Don't get me wrong - she's beautiful, but she just appears older to me than late 20's.

Tonya (of course) and folks looking back in hindsight are way overstating the whole "she looked trashy so the judges didn't like her" claim. Skating is a tacky fucking sport where nude netting and blinding sequins are quite common. The judges didn't like when Tonya wore skimpy skating dresses, but they also had a problem when Katerina freaking Witt did it as well (they even changed a costume rule because of KW). As for her big poofy hair, that was the style then. Remember, this is what won gold in 1994:

[quote]Is Margot Robbie really only in her late 20's? There's something about her that reads late 30's or early 40's. Don't get me wrong - she's beautiful, but she just appears older to me than late 20's.

In 2008 a newspaper listed Margot as being 23.

You make the call.

[quote]but they also had a problem when Katerina freaking Witt did it as well (they even changed a costume rule because of KW).

Don't forget... they also had a problem when Katarina wore leggings, in effect being MORE covered up and then started a rule that the women couldn't do that either!

The one costume ever identified as Tonya being approached to get rid of was her 1994 National Champion one, the same one she wore in the Olympic team photo. And let's be honest, it's hideous even among the ugliest skating costumes.

r370, you genuinely think Yamaguchi is the least attractive person in the pic you posted? Do you find any east asians attractive? Blonde does not equal attractive. The problem of not fitting the mold in the judges' mind went far beyond homemade dresses and perm-in-a-box and drugstore rouge. And her lack of Princess Face was only accentuated by linebacker-in-heels clunkiness of her dance moves by the early 90s. In those videos of her as a teenager, she really was graceful. But that disappeared quickly.

r132, it's weird. Like everything is wrong about it. But all of their fucking outfits are ridiculous.

R382 what's funny is that the USFSA objected to that dress but allowed her to skate in this which was more offensive in my opinion:

If you look through Tonya's other costumes though, there's not much else that stands out as being particularly tacky or cheap (compared to what others were wearing at the time). I'm sure Tonya was chapped at Vera Wang sponsoring Nancy and that translated into "My homemade outfits just weren't good enough!" Plus them being made by her mother I'm sure triggered all kinds of issues as well.

R385, that one would have been OK if it fit. But it was just too small and rode up her ass.

r386, her thighs are INSANE in most of those pix. She should've gone into kickboxing. She could probably kick down a house.

I didn't think Tonya's Albertville costumes were that bad or stood out as being that different than anyone else's. In fact, if she, or her mother made those, they did a pretty damn good job. The only thing I can't get past are the weird tassle sleeves on both and her seeming preference for those jagged cuts in the skirt portion of her costumes.

Tonya was not ugly, and she looked great (as did her outfit) when she won the US Championship in 1991. Her persona was perhaps rough around the edges of the ice. On the ice, she was fine.

[quote]her thighs are INSANE in most of those pix

Have you ever seen Midori's? There's a reason they were jumpers.

r390 = Helen Keller

Tonya's outfit for the 1994 long program at the Olympics was memorably awful. it did not help her chances she skated to "Theme from Jurassic Park," since she already seemed in most people's minds like a velociraptor.

They told her to use more appropriate music as a condition for being allowed to skate; this is in the movie where an official tells her "no heavy metal."

This was what Nancy Kerrigan wore for the 1994 long program by contrast-- beautiful Vera Wang, made with thousands of handpressed Austrian crystals

Oops, forgot the image of Nancy's outfit:

R393 that was the dress that was forced on her though.

R394 that was fictionalized.

And yet R396 Kerrigan's music was just as tacky as Harding's. It's a toss up as to which was worse... skating around to Jurassic Park or Neil Fucking Diamond.

Here's what happened to the toilet paper whose rolls ended up on Dorothy Zbornak's wedding dress.

The most beautiful woman on ice:

Snow Castle Barbie

R399 that photo is the perfect illustration of what was actually holding Tonya back... her grace and artistry was nill.

That photo literally encompasses everything about every Tonya program... the weird hand gestures and fingers... and that awful head roll.

The dewy face of feminine elegance

Tonya Harding with giant fish

Someone in another thread said that bulimics have red fingers from the stomach acids hitting their fingers when trigger their gag reflex. Is that what we're seeing @ r399 or is she just cold?

R405 Bulimics don't stick all five fingers on both hands down their throats.

She's on ice. She's cold.

These are pretty misogynistic trolls in here.

R 400, 401, 403, 404, 405 are the same hater troll. F/F them.

Acknowledging that Tonya Harding is not a pretty woman is not misogynistic. The figure skating judges requiring that the athletes also be beauty pageant contestants is misogynistic. And you're fucking stupid.

Just saw the movie. It's pretty good. Despite what the critics have said, I thought the Allison Janney character was the weakest. She was just a one-dimensional, over the top bitch. Of course, Oscars are often awarded for over the top characterizations instead of subtlety.

For anyone wondering about Robbie’s age, she’ll be turning 33 this year.

I FFed you instead r408. Get the fuck off this site. You don't belong.

r412, The Stalker is the herpes of posters. Can't take a hint. Can't take a hike. You can just tell she has at least two real life restraining orders against her.

I was underwhelmed by the movie. Robbie was too old and too pretty for the role and actually reminded me more of Nancy Kerrigan.

Tonya wasn't ugly, she was just terrible at styling herself and dressing in a flattering way. On the rare occasion when she toned it down, she looked fine.

r415, not looking freakish isn't the same as being attractive.

^ Yeah, and? There's a big gulf between ugly and pretty. Tonya was an average looking woman. With bad styling, she looks bad, with good styling she looks fine. Like most people and very much like most figure skaters.

Again, this is the face, hair and outfit that won in 1994. The notion that Tonya was too ugly/tacky and THAT'S what held her back is absurd.

r418 but that is what held her back. She was unattractive and looked cheap and the judges wanted someone pretty and elegant to represent the country. That's just a fact. Your ladyboner for Tonya doesn't change that.

I have no ladyboner for Tonya--I've been nothing but critical of her lazy, poor me bullshit. And yes she was tacky as shit, but in a sport filled with tacky she didn't stand out much in that respect. The judges want someone who will win. Tonya was a hot mess who wouldn't practice or train consistently. They saw how she squandered her skills in the 1992 season--she was late to Albertville, the 3A was gone and she had developed little else to make up for it. Despite that, she finished 4th. Contrary to her poor me story, she got away with a LOT of shit by virtue of that. That's why in 1994 she stayed on the team despite a criminal record and an FBI investigation into her role in Kerrigan's attack.

If they didn't want Tonya because she was too unattractive and cheap, they would have gotten rid of her. She got her chance and she botched it all by herself.

Tonya was capable of looking attractive, and she has always had nice flowing hair, but too many times - in fact almost all of the time - either her hairstyle, her makeup or her costume were completely wrong for her. She never could get the right look. And image is important in figure skating.

Just ask Katarina Witt, who used her looks, her styling, alluring facial expressions, posturing, and some of the skimpiest costumes ever seen - it seemed like you could almost see up her butt. But this distracted or titillated the judges, and they ignored the fact that she wasn't doing very much technically on the ice and gave her the wins anyway.

Tonya would have fared better under the scoring system used nowadays, in which skaters can pile up points by completing technical elements that have preset point amounts assigned to them. That accounts for part of the total score and that enables skaters with strong jumps and other technical moves to really rack up those points.

Oksana won the 93 Worlds and 94 Olympics by casting a spell over the judges, partly with the technical elements and partly with her long arms and hand positions.

Sloane just hit a drop shot that, if Zhang had been a little quicker, Zhang could have hit an overhead.

The movie is literally just stringing together highlighted events based off of four interviews with each actor just mimicking the interviews. It's an entertaining movie but not a great one.

[quote]Tonya would have fared better under the scoring system used nowadays, in which skaters can pile up points by completing technical elements that have preset point amounts assigned to them.

Correction - she COULD POSSIBLY fare better under the scoring system. The problem is Tonya being Tonya would be the same Tonya... she wouldn't train appropriately and would end up half-assing it and coming up with an excuse as to why she couldn't get it together.

And because of her poor work ethic I have doubts that she would actually do better in this scoring system because Tonya would have to load all her jumps on the back end of her program and she definitely wouldn't have the stamina for it.

[quote]Again, this is the face, hair and outfit that won in 1994. The notion that Tonya was too ugly/tacky and THAT'S what held her back is absurd.

I think you're mixing up the argument.

What people are saying is that Tonya was held back in the USA by her hair and outfits--and more generally by her lack of class. which they represented. She suffered from comparison to Nancy Kerrigan, who did not have much personality, but did look like she had tons of class by the way she dressed and did her makeup and wore her hair (even though she was also from a white trash background). And when the two women were compared in the US press after The Incident, of course Nancy came out on top.

But a skater from Ukraine like Oksana would not be judged as classless by the same standards Tonya was. She was seen as a foreigner.

Excuse makers never learn, do they?

Just saw it. LOVED it!

Allison Janney was brilliant. I really do want her to get that Oscar. She thoroughly deserves it.

r425, more importantly, Nancy Kerrigan was pretty.

The whole notion that Tonya didn't do better in the sport because of how she looked is a complete falsehood and revisionist history.

Tonya didn't do better in the sport because Tonya didn't hit when it mattered. There isn't a single competition that Tonya can point to where she didn't get the marks she deserved. The fact that she won Nationals, won a medal at Worlds, and won Skate America... and finished 4th at the Olympics PROVE that the judges were willing to reward her when she DID hit. And if you look at her scores after the short in 92 they'd clearly push her to the top even when she didn't.

And there's also the East Coast/West Coast aspect of it.

[quote]ust ask Katarina Witt, who used her looks, her styling, alluring facial expressions, posturing, and some of the skimpiest costumes ever seen - it seemed like you could almost see up her butt. But this distracted or titillated the judges, and they ignored the fact that she wasn't doing very much technically on the ice and gave her the wins anyway.

I always found her to be so dull as a skater. I admired her nerves of steel, but other than that meh.

I agree, r429. I can't think of a single competition where I thought Tonya had been underscored.

R425, and what you're missing is that the notion of Tonya being too trashy to have USFS support comes only from Tonya and is not supported by any actual evidence. When Tonya performed well, she scored well, including internationally and of course USFS knew that. The only time Tonya MIGHT have a legitimate complaint was the 1993 US Nationals, where she was kept off the world team. But Tonya didn't skate well that night--she fell, she was slow and lumbering and the 3A was gone (at this point, she hadn't landed it in 2 years). The judges placing Ervin and Kwiatkowski ahead of her were tough calls, but certainly not obvious favoritism. There was never a time when Tonya skated well and wasn't rewarded.

If USFS really wanted her out of the Olympics, they would have made it happen. Just ask Ashley Wagner.

[quote]If USFS really wanted her out of the Olympics, they would have made it happen. Just ask Ashley Wagner.

Correction... just ask Mirai. Ashley was never denied a spot for any other reason except her own poor skating.

R429 "And if you look at her scores after the short in 92 they'd clearly push her to the top even when she didn't."

Good point. Tonya FELL on her 3A in the short at the Olympics, which means she completely missed one required element, yet they placed her 6th. She fell again on the 3A in the long and she placed 4th, above Surya Bonaly (who had arguably a better skate), whose low marks pissed off the crowd.

And Tonya was worse at the 1992 Nationals--in the long she fell on her 3A and doubled most of her jumps so she only landed 2 triple jumps, yet they still placed her on the Olympic team. While she skated to ZZ Top and "People Are Still Having Sex."

Held back in the USA, my ass.

The commentators would deride her appearance on air while she was performing. The judges found her visage offensive. If she had looked like Nancy Kerrigan (who looked like Snow White), she would have at least a silver medal. I don't know how why this person with prosopagnosia is talking to herself about how beautiful Tonya was, but it's fucking hilarious for anyone with working eyes. She's homely. She's allowed to be homely. Pretending she isn't homely is ridiculous.

R434, I mentioned Ashley because it just happened, but yes Mirai was denied her spot on the Olympic team (which was given to Ashley instead). Ironically, it was given to Ashley in 2014 because Ashley had a stronger international record, but Ashley lost it in 2018 despite having the strongest international record.

Point is, if USFS wants you out, you're out.

R436, Tonya did get at least a silver medal and more, idiot. She was US National Champion and World Silver Medalist in 1991, and twice was the Skate America Champion. Point is, she got those medals despite being homely, because that really had little to do with it.

[quote]. Ironically, it was given to Ashley in 2014 because Ashley had a stronger international record, but Ashley lost it in 2018 despite having the strongest international record.

But she didn't. They're not looking at the overall career. Ashley didn't have a stronger international record than Chen in 2017-2018, which is why they couldn't justify giving her a free ride again. She also wasn't cheated in her scores like she's been crying to the press about. She got exactly the scores she deserved.

If they were basing it on overall career performances, I believe Mirai would have had a better record than Ashley in 2014 since Mirai finished 4th in 2010... the highest American finish and just one step off the podium. A lot of people forget that.

Ashley was the 2016 World Silver medalist, the only US woman with a world medal in something like a decade. But I'm not so much interested in defending Ashley as making clear that if USFS was out to get Tonya the way she claims, no way would she have made the Olympic team in 1992 or 1994. The fact that we can even debate whether someone like Ashley (certainly not-ugly or trashy) got screwed over just shows that the insistence that Tonya was is absurd.

I know R440 but the selection committees criteria doesn't look at a lifetime of work. It looks at a specific period, the current season, and Ashley did a whole lot of nothing.

[quote]Tonya FELL on her 3A in the short at the Olympics, which means she completely missed one required element

Was a triple axel a required element?

[quote]Tonya FELL on her 3A in the short at the Olympics, which means she completely missed one required element

Didn't she actually miss TWO required elements?

She fell on the required triple and because of that didn't do the required combination jump... they seemed to magically not deduct her for missing the combo... and yet she still tries to complain that the judges wouldn't give her the time of day.

What a stupid questions R442. Obviously the technical element was a jump (I don't remember if in 1992 a triple was required or just permitted), and as R443 points out it was in fact a combo jump that was required.

R296, I think you’re on to something. Abusive relationships destroy people and affect their ability to function in many ways. My sister was in an abusive relationship, and it really changed her. I watched this once strong, intelligent woman with a bright future lose her desire to live, lose her job, have weird outbursts, and become convinced that she was no good. It’s a form of mind control. Our family had to pry her away from this douche, but it wasn’t easy. Many years of therapy later, she’s in a good place in her life, but I will never forget the damage it did to her.

Nancy may have been working class, but she had family who loved and supported her. That’s big. Tonya had none of that. Yes, Tonya was her own worst enemy, and I’m not excusing her, but I can totally see how she would go along with something masterminded by her abusive ex and how that ex would bring her down with him. It’s a hard dynamic to understand unless been in it or seen it up close, but there you have it.

The best part of the movie, I think, was at the end, where Jeff is watching the news media decamp from his front yard and go follow the next media circus—OJ Simpson. And it wasn’t lost on me that it was another case of domestic violence, only this time, the woman in the relationship (Nicole) paid the ultimate price—with her life.

Being in an abusive relationship, no matter how skilled a person may be is by definition DESTRUCTIVE OF TALENT. The disruption is obvious, nurturing of talent ceases, dedication to craft is distracted. Tonya is the very example of this. Women are extremely susceptible to this type of career vulnerability. The short and long of it She married a batterer - it was a miracle that she ever showed up at all. She wasnt emotionally supported, he was the center And controlling factor.

There are plenty of parallels in the history of talented women - just about every female vocalist that drops out has some shitty guy That robs them blind or aids & abets their self destruction. Case in point is Whitney Houston. For the ascendency of her career 1980s- early 1990’s As she was sweeping the globe her primary relationship was with another woman that supported her, NURTURED HER, and largely kept a positive influence. After she married Bobby Brown her life went to shit in a slow descent - HIS NEEDS became the center of her world - also a batterer he liked her high and vulnerable. Domestic violence, control and jealousy is the end game.

Her primary positive source of emotional support hung on for 11 years - then walked. And her life went to hell. Tonya? Never had any of that Except in her coaches and what financial support flowed her way for a short period - that undoubtedly Gillooly controlled. Lack of emotional support is the ultimate game changer.

There is a Direct LINE between abusive men and the collapse/neglect of female world class talent. (I bet that Johnnie Wier is one of these asshole posters in here - as well a Kerrigans gay son.)

[quote]as well a Kerrigans gay son.

Is he over 18 yet?

I was so appalled by the real life story that I probably won't watch. And Tonya is still a psycho bitch as far as I can tell. Just adore Janney, though.

She isnt a psycho bitch, never was. She is wounded but healing in a healthier relationship. Probably what you are objecting to is her lack of education and communication style - very very direct and minus sugar coating.

Yep, she's a psycho bitch.

No, not really, but her chaotic life and behavior are entertaining.

One thing that seemed "off" to me -- when her coach (Julianne Nicholson) comes to see her after the'92 Olympics and says that the Olympic Committee has just decided they're going to to the Winter Olympics again in two years -- that can't possibly have happened. Don't the host countries need a lot more time to prepare for an Olympic Games than two years?

I know they released this at the end of the year so that it could get some Oscar love, but this is truly the PERFECT Mother's Day film!

R452, yes, that’s what happened.

Yes, R452. It was fictionalized as was much of the movie.

It had been decided before 1992 to stagger the Olympics.

So when Tonya was whining to the judge about his sentence (which made no sense anyway -- why would a judge have the authority to ban someone from skating?), she kept bemoaning the fact he was taking away her livelihood and that she didn't have any other skills. So why couldn't she have skated as a professional, or in ice shows? They weren't part of the ban, right?

[quote]So why couldn't she have skated as a professional, or in ice shows? They weren't part of the ban, right?

Some of those events were USFSA sanctioned events, which she was banned from. She could have skated in other events, however, nobody wanted her. There was no market for her and the other skaters wanted nothing to do with her.

Nancy Kerrigan played herself in an episode of "Fresh Off the Boat" last night. There was a storyline regarding the Kwan-Lipinski Olympics.

The judge didn't ban Tonya from skating - that decision was made separately by the USFSA, who banned her for life from participating in USFSA-sanctioned events and from being a USFSA coach. An ice show not associated with the USFSA could have hired her, but I think none did because she was too controversial.

I have read in a couple of articles that part of Tonya's plea bargain with the judge included the requirement that she give up her membership in the USFSA, but I don't know if that is accurate.

R492 - You're right, the decision to stagger the Olympics and have a winter games in 1994 after having them in 1992 wasn't made in 1992. That decision was made by the International Olympic Committee in 1986.

I saw it today. Entertaining although there was no one to root for.

Poor Allison's neck looks bad.

[quote] There is a Direct LINE between abusive men and the collapse/neglect of female world class talent.

R446, that's definitely a problem. But in this case another female (Harding's mother) was also allegedly involved in the physical abuse. Harding claims her mother beat her with a brush, and allegedly threw a steak knife at her. So why is that left out of the 'abusive men are destroying female athletes' narrative?

And sometimes mentally / physically abusive mothers and boyfriends don't sink athletic careers - they create them. Hungarian swimming champion Katinka Hosszú and her alleged abusive husband, Shane Tusup, are an example. She was talented but underperforming - then her allegedly abusive husband started training her, and she became one of the most decorated swimming champions. This is not to glorify his actions, just reporting their result.

[quote] Jessica Hardy, an Olympic medalist who used to train with Hosszu in LA and wrote about being subjected to verbal and emotional abuse as a child, said, “I’ve seen a lot of inappropriate and not-O.K. behavior in [Hosszu's husband-coach, Tusup]." She added: “I’ve seen coaches exhibit that kind of behavior in training, but this is another level. It’s scary.”

[quote] NY Times: "After the backstroke, Hosszu avoided making eye contact with Tusup, who upbraided her while swimmers from other teams stared. Tusup continued his critique in the warm-down area, where 2 people said they overheard him suggesting to Hosszu that she stay in the water and drown."

Pathetic R462. There is always an exception. Seldom do abused children or women have this opportunity. I am certain she saw victory as her way out.