Royal Prince and husband of The Queen of Denmark diagnosed with dementia after months of erratic behaviour

Who gives a shit?!?

White people need to die!

Charming,!! [R1]

One can take one's frank and eccentric politically incorrect statements too far.

Well [R3] the news has got me thinking that there is a health issue behind the Duke Of Edinburghs stepping away from most public duties despite the palaces insistence that there isn't. Just as Henrik has now been diagnosed with a serious health issue a year or so after also stepping down from public duties...

He's been saying weird shit for years though. He stomped off the his native France because he was jealous of his son Crown Prince Frederick. He also lied about having a French noble title, turns out his family knew they didn't have the right to it but used it anyway because it 'almost' was granted to them in the 18th century.

Didn't he regularly verbally abuse and beat his sons when they were children? He would better fit in the English monarchy.

Rumored to be gay.

The UK monarchy [R6] There's no such thing as an English monarchy. Infact the current monarch is the daughter of a Scottish aristocrat. Also it's widely rumoured in royal circles that if the Queen does a Queen Victoria and retreats from public life when she's widowed that she will go and live in Balmoral in Scotland most of the year.

I wish his gorgeous son Crown Prince Frederik was gay [R7] He's absolutely dreamy

Frederick is very cute, his brother Joachim not so much now. He's aging poorly, he was better looking when he was younger. It almost looks like he has facial wasting now.

The so called royals! Good grief. There's no such thing. When they die. Their going to stink up the joint just like everyone else will. There's no royals! Get over it. We live in a world full of fucking sheep's.

Would someone FF r1, for me? ...thanks, I've used up my allotment today.

[quote] We live in a world full of fucking sheep's.

Sheep's what? Assholes? Vaginas?

[R10] Agreed Frederik is definitely the more sexy brother in fact he is pretty much aesthetically the definition of the handsome Prince.

They are giving us a primer for how to handle Trump when he becomes erratic.

Ok, now what? I care because...

I FF'ed r1 before I blocked him permanently.

Frederik is not hot!!! He has a lopsided head and shovel face, like Robert Pattinson.

He makes me go wobbly at the knees [R18] I think he's incredibly handsome and dreamy looking.

Prince Frederik looks great in a swimsuit

Was his father Henrik hot in his younger years I wonder?

I will have to Google...

Cheeto next

Frederick was so in love with Mary that he could barely hold back his tears when she entered the cathedral on their wedding day. It's extremely sweet to watch.

If it's Tuesday it must be...

Significant deterioration in Prince Henrik's health causing his son Crown Prince Frederik to cut short his visit to the Winter Olympics.

How do we petition to get her doctor to become the White House physician?

Prince Frederik is painfully adorable. You just want to grab him and hug him.

What was the Queen gnawing on in that video? Pinion nuts? Cashews? A tobacco chaw?

Excellent question [R25]!!! 😉 😆

Frederik's gone grey, but he's still just as gorgeous as ever.

Danish has to be one of the ugliest spoken languages on earth. Sounds like they're about to vomit.

Article and updates on the Danish Royal family including Prince Frederik visiting his father. The way the article is worded is pointing towards a belief within the royal family that he won't recover.

The Danish Royals make the the British Royals look like the Brady Bunch. The gossip on the Danish Royals is that Queen Margrethe was a very hands off mother (she makes QEII look like the mother of the year) and Frederik has allegedly told people he can count the number of times he spent with his mother on one hand before he was a teenager. Margrethe is said to be much closer to her younger son Joachim. Henrik was extremely strict and believed in corporal punishment and he and Frederik were never close.

Frederik is a reluctant heir and his fondness for booze, wild parties and young blondes has been kept out of the Danish press. The true love of Frederik's life is a woman named Katja Storkholm. Frederik and Katja became secretly engaged but his mother would not allow the marriage because Katja was a former model (which the Queen deemed was beneath the dignity of the royal family) and she was Danish - there is a de facto rule in the Danish royal family that they must marry a foreigner in order to keep the family above ordinary Danes. Fred didn't have the balls to stand up to his mother and eventually dumped Katja.

Although I think Frederik was fond of Mary, most people conclude she was a rebound fling turned wife. It's known in affluent circles in Copenhagen that Frederik has had several affairs and it's believed that Frederik is the father of Katja's son not her ex-husband. By 2009/2010 there were serious rumours (although they were only mildly hinted at in the reverential Danish Press) that Mary and Fred's marriage was at a breaking point. Their twins (conceived through IVF) were an attempt to get the marriage back on track and keep rumours out of the media. It's now believed that Mary and Fred have found a bit more of a stable place. Mary, who loves her position and wealth too much to ever walk away, seems to have learned to turn a blind eye to her husband's cheating.

The Danes and press love the Queen but as her health declines there is growing worries that when Frederik becomes king the press will no longer be a reverential to the royals and start spilling the beans.

R1 is a Black Pedophile

Is the Queen of Denmark in poor health [R32]?

Couldn't agree more [R26] Prince Frederik is incredibly cute and sexy. A true handsome Prince 😘😍

The way she smokes r34, her health has to be less than perfect. Especially those horrible teeth.

R34 While Queen M's demise is nowhere near eminent, she isn't in the best of health and has quietly scaled back on her duties passing more and more on to Fred and Mary. A life time of chain smoking has taken its toll on her health. She also suffers from bad arthritis that has resulted in her having both her knees replaced. She also has chronic sciatica which reportedly leaves her in agony at times. She rarely takes on long-haul international travel now and mostly remains within Europe and has passed the duty of state visits over to Fred and Mary.

For years, Queen M has been adamant that she would never abdicate, however, there have been whispers coming out of the Palace for a few years now that abdication is something M has at least discussed with some aides. I don't think abdication is a serious possibility as yet and the flames are probably being flamed by Mary's court as Mary would like to be Queen sooner rather than later. I personally believe that Queen M will never abdicate because she loves the attention being Queen brings her. Queen M. is not really known for being humble she is rather regal.

Thanks for your informative post [R37] Do you think she's likely to make it into the 2020s? Would becoming a widow likely accelerate her decline and make her more frail or is she quite robust that way emotionally constitution wise?

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R38 Aside from an major unexpected medical issues, yes she will make it into the 2020s (she'll be 80 in 2020). I suspect she'll do everything she can to stay on the throne until 2022 when she marks 50 years as Queen of Denmark.

As for the death of Henrik and becoming a widow, of course I expect she will be deeply saddened by the loss but it won't do her in. Her marriage to Henrik has been a rocky one and he wasn't the easiest person to be married to. In all truthfulness, he has caused her a lot of pain and embarrassment over the course of their years together and they have for the last twenty to thirty years led fairly separate lives. The Queen took refuge in her art work while Henrik would spend time in France. Rumours have swirled for years that Henrik has had affairs with both men and women.

[R40] Is it common public knowledge in Denmark that they largely lead separate lives? That more 'practical' approach to maritial changes over time seems quite common amongst the British upper classes is it not? Would I be right to say its similar in Danish societies upper echelons?

There is a view I heard glibly summarised one time by a UK commentator that the Queen and Philip felt when people lived in such big palaces and homes why not just live in another wing of the Palace from your spouse than go through with the melodrama of a divorce?

Other than her rotten teeth, I like Margrethe much better than Queen Betty.

More likely the Prince was sick of the cunt so she had him "declared demented" rather than have to face the truth. Robert Lincoln did this with his mother Mary, when she started to spill the truth about Abe.

OMG, he’s naked: Crown Prince Frederik of Denmark

Well, not exactly naked, but the prince was caught pissing off the side of a boat in 2007.

Here's Prince Frederik's intact cock.

[R43] Henrik's strange behaviour for a number of years actually tallies with his dementia diagnosis.

Prince Frederik is soo dreamy and beautiful. Did his father Henrik look similarly sexy at a young age or does Frederik take after his mother's side of the family looks wise?

In what universe is slant-faced Frederik hot and sexy? He's a wimpy, spoiled, pill-popping womanizer. His face looks like it was hit by a shovel.

Pill popping [R48] I don't sense that but fond of his drink yes

R47 Young Prince Henrik

Oh not too bad at all [R50] Thanks 👍

More young Prince Henrik

Thanks [R52] I must admit I doubt I'd have turned him down in the day if he'd invited me to keep him warm in bed overnight!!

Well known that Frederick is a drinker. He was pub crawling in Australia recently.

None of the Danish, Dutch or British Royals are hot. The Spanish Infantas too. The Swedes and Norwegians are much better.

Meet the Crown Princess of Norway, Mette Marit. Not such a looker.

Lady Amelia Windsor of Great Britain is pretty cute but then again her mother is Canadian.

Lady Amelia has a stick pin body with an oversized head - quite a strange look. She is barely 5 feet tall.

Strange body, strange face.

Well, she looks quite nice when she's all dolled up.

R41 Queen M. and Henrik's marriage problems are pretty much common knowledge in Denmark but Daisy (as Queen M. is referred to affectionately by Danes) and Henrik always put on a united front in public and undertook our most of their public engagements together so it appeared they were together far more than they actually were. Henrik has never been popular amongst the Dane and was long seen as a whiner, certainly he complained openly for years about not being given the title of King Consort (a status that doesn't actually exist) and didn't like that he had to play second fiddle to his wife and sons. That's not to say their marriage was a shambles or anything but I think at some point Daisy just decided that it would be better for her husband if he was just allowed to do his own thing as often as possible.

R54 I would say Frederik is a borderline alcoholic (which runs in the Danish Royal Family) The present Queen's father, King Frederik, was a known alcoholic. The night before his twins christening Frederik was caught on camera drunk out of his mind at a bar and seen getting very cozy with a 20 something year old blonde. The story was not reported in Denmark but did make the German tabloids.

Gosh [R60] If his alcohol problem isn't kept in check could it prove to be a threat to the Danish monarchy? Is he thought to be a reluctant prospective King and heir?

Is the Queen aware the public refer to her as Daisy?!!

R55 Prince Nikolai of Denmark is pretty cute. Seen here with his father, Prince Joachim.

R61 Daisy is the childhood nickname given to the Queen by her parents and she has used it her whole life. That's why the Danes often call her Daisy.

There are serious worries around what will happen when Fred becomes King. Fred is most definitely a reluctant heir who doesn't want to be King. It was hoped his marriage to Mary would help build his confidence but that has not happened. Had he married the woman he really loved, Katja Storkholm, things might have been better for him, but Queen M. would not allow that marriage as I outline in my first post R32. Fred is still very popular with the Danes as is the institution of Monarchy itself, but many politicians and members of the press are monarchy weary and if Fred stumbles quickly after becoming King, I think the press will open the closet and let the skeletons fall out.

[R63] Thanks. How old will Frederiks eldest child be in 2022 if the Queen holds on to then? Is an abdication or skip a generation scenario at all likely in Denmark if the current Crown Prince flounders badly? Alternatively also perhaps Katja his one true love as some refer to her may have indulged his wild ways too much and made him less suitable to be King where as Mary keeps him in check?

R64 Highly doubt there will be a skip the generation scenario, Frederik will be King. It's not a Prince Charles situation in Denmark, Frederik remains popular with the Danish people as is Mary. The problem may come after he becomes King and feels overwhelmed by the responsibilities. It's widely agreed that Katja was a very good influence on Frederik. During the time they were together he took his duties more seriously, worked more regularly, and had more confidence. Mary I think has always been more focused on the privileges of being royal then of trying to get her husband to be more serious about his duties. Mary allegedly hasn't been faithful herself. There are rumours she had a hot and heavy fling with Friis Bach a Danish Government Minister.

Thanks [R65] It really sounds like beneath the surface they are more dysfunctional than Charles and Diana were! Are we sure they haven't reached a happy accommodation with each other? Sometimes going into middle age can cause that to come about?

How would the crown prince divorcing go down in Denmark?

Published an hour ago on Euronews that Prince Henrik is continuing to greatly deteriorate.

R66 I think Mary has adopted the stance that even if Frederik's antics deeply hurt her, she will turn a blind eye for the sake of her keeping her status, her children and her marriage. I think there are a lot of similarities between Diana/Charles and Frederik/Mary but Mary was older when she got married and I think emotionally more together and perhaps better equipped to deal. Unlike Diana, Mary has a very good relationship with her family and when things go rough she often takes the kids and heads for Australia. I personally don't think they'll get divorced but I don't think the monarchy would come crashing down if they did. It would be a PR nightmare for Fred more than Mary. Mary could play up the wronged wife card, like Diana did, and I think public sympathy would rest with her. The problem is Fred is too close to the throne now to even consider a divorce rationally there likely isn't enough time left for him to rehabilitate his image before he becomes King. Like I said, I don't think Mary and Frederik loath each other, I think their marriage is just very rocky. It has big up and big downs.

Looking at the Scandinavian royals (Sweden, Denmark, Norway), the only two truly happy marriages are King Harald/Queen Sonja of Norway and Crown Princess Victoria and Prince Daniel of Sweden.

All the Danish Royals have cancelled their engagements for tomorrow.

Rumour on twitter is that Henrik has sepsis a complication from pneumonia.

Sadly [R69] it sounds like it's just a matter of time.

Thanks for your detailed reply [R68] It's appreciated. A couple of questions for you if I may since this seems to be an era of both keen interest and knowledge for you.

Do you think Mary will make a good and popular Queen? Does she get on with her mother and father in law?

You never mentioned the King and Queen of Sweden as having a truly happy marriage nor did you mention Princess Madeleine or sexy Prince Carl Victoria's younger brother? Are there issues or rumours of problems around their marriages?

Which of these monarchies would you say had the safest more assured future? The Danish, Norwegian, Swedish or Dutch?

. Many thanks in advance!

R72 Mary is very popular in Denmark so I think she'll be a popular Queen. I have no idea what kind of Queen she'll be. Like Frederik she is a bit workshy, but unlike her husband her role is largely supportive as she doesn't have the constitutional responsibilities. So it will easier for her. I actually think Mary will be a competent Queen.

The King and Queen of Sweden's marriage is now by most accounts more of a professional partnership/friendship rather than a romantic relationship. The King of Sweden has cheated on Queen Silvia numerous times during the course of their marriage. There is a saying that the King likes two things: fast cars and pussy. Some of this was made public in an unauthorized biography about the King which was published a few years back. When he was asked directly about this a few years ago, he basically acknowledged one affair and stated that his family has moved on. Her husband's cheating allegedly resulted in Silvia getting at least one face lift done at some point during the late 80s or early 90s that was somewhat botched.

As for Princess Madeleine her marriage to Chris O'Neill is happy enough but Madeleine has a reputation for being very temperamental and she clearly "wears the pants" in that relationship. Prince Carl Philip is a lot like his father, dumb as rocks and the only thing he really likes are fast cars. Both his sisters (Victoria and Madeleine) hate his wife Sofia as they think she is "trash" and is more into Carl's title than him. There are unsubstantiated rumors that Sofia has messed around with Carl's father, the King, on more than one occasion, certainly the King seems very tactile with his daughter-in-law. Carl Philip is the King's favourite child and the King was always bitter that the laws of succession were retroactively changed after he was born to make Victoria the heir to the throne. I've heard on more than one occasion that Silvia was very strict with Carl Philip because he was a very naturally sensitive boy and she was afraid he's turn out to be gay. Madeleine is Silvia's favourite child and probably the most indulged of the three kids.

Victoria and Daniel are very happy together as Victoria had to fight tooth and nail to be allowed to marry him. Victoria and Daniel had a hard time getting pregnant. Daniel had to have a kidney transplant prior to their marriage and it is rumoured that Daniel had to have sperm frozen before he married Victoria because the medication he is required to take can cause decline sperm production and erectile dysfunction. Victoria had an eating disorder in her late teens and early 20s which is believed to also caused problems with her getting pregnant. There is no doubt that Estelle and Oscar were the result of IVF.

I would say out of all the monarchies in Europe the most secure are the British, Danish and Dutch monarchies while the Spanish and perhaps the Swedish monarchies are the least secure. The Spanish monarchy's popular has been sitting on 50 to 55% approval over the past 5 years or so and while Felipe is popular he lacks his father's charisma. I added Sweden because it's popular support is around 60% and the vast majority of Swedish politicians are republicans. That being said Crown Princess Victoria is massively popular in Sweden and my hunch is that King Carl will abdicate within the next 10 years.

[quote] R 72 Mary is very popular in Denmark so I think she'll be a popular Queen. I have no idea what kind of Queen she'll be. Like Frederik she is a bit workshy, but unlike her husband her role is largely supportive as she doesn't have the constitutional responsibilities. So it will easier for her. I actually think Mary will be a competent Queen.

Well either you do think she'll be a good queen or you don't. Which is it?

R73 Queen Silvia of Sweden looks like the joker he smile is so wide now.

Cheers [R73] You seem very knowledgeable I'm impressed. I heard a rumour last year that Princess Mary of Denmark was planning what some people call 'a change of life' baby before her menopause which would make her a royal mother of five. Do you give much credence to those rumours and speculation given what you have told me about their marriage?

The Swedish Royal family seems full of sexy secrets! I'm astonished that the monarch admitting to infidelity hasn't imperilled the monarchy as I feel sure a similar situation in the UK would cause a lot of trouble and I mean a lot! I believe Prince Carl's wife is a former reality TV star or model and that caused some controversy? I'm not sure such a marriage would have been allowed if he was the heir to the throne? I've also a feeling Victoria will at least try and hope to have a third child as a way of shoring up the monarchy although not JUST as a way of doing that. Most of the European monarchies seem currently to be going in for big families.

What are your detailed thoughts on the Norwegian royal family? I think their Crown Prince Haakon? Is strangely handsome but not quite as handsome as Crown Prince Frederik of Denmark when he's at his best!

I feel poor Prince Henrik is being sidelined in his own thread! Will the Queen of Denmark declare a day of national mourning and lower the national flags to half mast when he sadly passes away or is Danish society and royalty not quite like that?

When Prince Henrik dies, Margarethe’s casket dance will put most gold diggers to shame.

R76 Anything could happen but I think with four kids and being 46 I think Mary and Frederik are probably done. Also it's likely Fred will be King within the next decade and I think having a very young kid might be too much of an added burden.

I think Swedes are far more pragmatic about the personal lives of the Royal Family than in Britain for the Brit royals. It isn't as if the news of King Carl's affairs was a big shock as I would say it was almost an open secret that has been hinted in the press for years. I think Victoria and Daniel would love to have more children but I honestly don't think it will happen. As I said, Victoria had a very hard time getting pregnant and there have been rumours she had at least two miscarriages before she had Oscar.

The Norwegian royals have a reputation of being one of the most down to earth royal families in Europe. The only negative within in the family is Crown Prince Haakon's wife, Mette-Marit. Both Haakon's parents were very heavily against Haakon marrying her due to her wild past and her status as a single mother. The only reason Haakon got his way was that he threatened to give up his place in the line of succession by marrying Mette-Marit without parliamentary permission. While it's believed King Harald has warmed up to his daughter-in-law, Queen Sonja still loathes her but puts on a very convincingly warm face in public. Mette-Marit is not particularly popular in Norway she is seen as workshy and too frequently courting controversy.

Haakon's marriage to Mette-Marit very nearly fell apart about 4 or 5 years ago when Mette-Marit allegedly had an affair with a wealthy American business man. Unbeknownst to many they separated for a number of months and the Royal Court was even strategizing on how to handle an anticipated divorce in terms of PR. However, rumours of a pending divorce were accidentally leaked by a Norwegian newspaper and the palace had to go into damage control mode denying everything and it appears the in the ensuing years the have patched things up. I've heard it speculated that one of the main reasons Haakon decided not to divorce was that he felt he has fought so hard to marry her, that people would be angry if the marriage ended in divorce. BTW Haakon is super gay friendly and also a public supporter of trans-rights.

As for Henrik's death, like all senior royals, his funeral has been planned and rehearsed for years. The day of his funeral will be a national holiday in Denmark and he will be given a state funeral. Flags will likely be flown at half mast for at least a week, and the Royal Court will likely remain in mourning for several weeks afterwards.

According to the Danish press, Henrik has now been moved to Fredensborg Palace where he is receiving palliative care as he wishes to die at home.

Thanks again [R78] for the detailed response. Would I be right in saying that Norway, Sweden and Denmark are all countries whose people are less religious? Not necessarily atheist but there's just less religion especially of the fervent fundamentalist or over preachy kind? Perhaps that's why they are more pragmatic about these scandals and rumours? I think I read somewhere that Queen Elizabeth II and Queen Margarethe have an especially good personal rapport especially as both are female monarchs who inherited the crown at a relatively young age and so have much in common? I also recall reading that family tree wise the Norwegian royal family is closest to the British royal family and the King of Norway is in the line of succession for the British throne alas quite far down! It's good to hear that the LGBQT community has an ally in Prince Haakon. Would his parents be more 'old fashioned' on the issue? I would also say that Prince William is an ally too especially given his front cover and interview in a British gay magazine last year. Not sure what any future Archbishop of Canterbury will make of it though!! So do you see any possible royal divorces on the cards in Europe?

Prince Haakon is one sexy man.

He certainly is [R81] 😍

R80 Yes, the Scandinavian countries are statistically the least religious and most secular countries in the world. There is a great book called "Society Without God" by Phil Zuckerman published about a decade ago that really delves into Denmark and Sweden and how the decline of religion has actually resulted in a more humanistic society with free education and healthcare, living wages, affordable housing, 6-8 weeks vacations and the 30 hour work week. That being said, I think the pragmatic view of royalty simply has to do with the fact that there isn't much of a tabloid culture in Scandinavia. There is a feeling that people are entitled to their privacy.

All of Europe's royal houses are related, some several times over depending on which branch of the family tree you're looking at. The British Royals have good but somewhat distant relationships with their European cousins. Most of the interaction between Queen Elizabeth II and her counterparts take place at private occasions. Queen Elizabeth and Queen Margarethe do have a good relationships, and Queen Margarethe is a regular visitor to Windsor. Queen Elizabeth is also very fond of Princess (formerly Queen) Beatrix of the Netherlands. In fact, Beatrix was staying at Balmoral as a guest the night Diana died. Prince Charles has long been close to the Spanish royals (it's rumoured Diana slept with King Juan Carlos) and all the British royals are close to the Greek royals who lived in exile in London for years.

Haakon's parents are pro-gay as King Harold gave a speech on the 25th anniversary of his accession saying something along the lines of "Norwegians are boys who love boys, or girls who love girls, or boys and girls who love each other. Norwegians believe in God or Allah or nothing. We are all Norwegians." Queen Sonja reportedly attended a gay wedding of a life long friend privately a few years ago. I think most of the younger royals are all allies. Crown Princess Victoria gave out a "Gay of the Year" award at a Pride event in Stockholm a few years ago. Crown Princess Mary has spoken about the important of LGBT rights in developing countries. Queen Letizia of Spain invited a gay rights organization to the palace as part of the celebrations to mark her husband's accession (interestingly King Felipe avoided speaking to them). William, Catherine and Harry have all spoken in favour of gay rights etc.

As for divorces to be honest the one I see coming down in a number of years is Harry and Meghan. There is fear that Harry is rushing into this mostly because he wants to start a family. Meghan is not all that liked within the family because she was an actress. Certainly William and Catherine are not big fans of her.

Danish Court has just announced that Prince Henrik has died.

And yet, her behavior is probably much more stable then President Cheeto.

his death is not on Google so it isn't official yet

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It only came up on Google because it's now accurate

He was murdered, I hope to God they do a proper autopsy.

I just read that there will be no state funeral but rather a private one. Henrik will be cremated and not buried with his wife.

Not only is Queen Sofia of Spain one of the homeliest consorts in recent memory, but she is very antigay and spoke out against gay rights, gay marriage in particular, in a Catholic conservative magazine interview. I hate her and her craggy face!

I've also heard that Princess Madeleine's MAIL had an affair with Prince Charles after he and Diana were married!

Glad to hear that Princess Victoria and her husband are happily married.

I like her.

R91 Yup Queen Sofia is no supporter of gay rights. She seems like a very bitter woman probably because her husband has been chronically unfaithful to her their whole marriage.

He looks suspiciously like Mickey on THE COMEBACK.

[quote]I just read that there will be no state funeral but rather a private one. Henrik will be cremated and not buried with his wife.

Oh lawdy, that just REEKS of a cover up.

[quote]Henrik will be cremated and not buried with his wife.

I should hope not. It is customary to wait for the monarch to die before burying her

The death of a spouse with dementia is very difficult. I feel badly for them.

He did not die of his dementatia but of a lung infection. They and Henri probably exscaped the worst of his dementia by him dying now, I do not think it was that advanced yet.

Henrik looked like he had a big fat cock!

[quote]He did not die of his dementatia but of a lung infection.

Were you there? It's all too convenient the starts talking about secrets and private things and the queen says he's demented, so to minimize damage then he conveniently dies.

I hope there's an autopsy performed by a neutral party.

Sorry for the late reply [R83] it felt a bit off, wrong and out of place for me to reply straight away chatting about royal gossip in a thread about Prince Henrik when it had just been announced that he had passed away. So I decided to leave it for a few days.

It's very reassuring to hear that the younger generation of royals are pro gay and especially nice to hear that the senior Norwegian royals are pro gay. Is the Spanish monarch the head of any established church in Spain? I don't think they are as their mainly Catholic. That takes away any controversy about them being the head of the established church with views that divide the church and contradict teaching. I wonder how that will play out in all European monarchies including the UK in the future when William ascends to the throne? I suspect that the current Queen Elizabeth isn't exactly anti gay privately but is conscious of her role as Head of the Church of England. That's an interesting nugget about Queen Beatrix being at Balmoral when Princess Diana died. How usual is it for the Royal family to have other monarchs and or their relatives stay for informal visits in more of a friend capacity? I sure William's doubts about Meghan. Doubts I suspect Prince Charles holds too. I think there was no question though that the Queen would decline Harry's request to marry incase he walked out on Royal life. I've just got a niggle that she is a bit of a fame whore seeking to live out a fantasy but won't stay the distance. I could be being harsh and unfairly judging her but I sense she is going to do wrong by the royal family imo.

R103, I believe that Catholic and Protestant countries have very different approaches to the status of their monarchies in terms of religion. The UK and Denmark, Sweden and Norway all have official State churches. I don't think that kind of thing occurs in Catholic countries, although the role of the Catholic Church in France (I know, not a monarchy) has always left me confused.

[quote]That's an interesting nugget about Queen Beatrix being at Balmoral when Princess Diana died. How usual is it for the Royal family to have other monarchs and or their relatives stay for informal visits in more of a friend capacity?

Years ago, I read about QIIE visiting Kentucky (not far from me) a number of times on private business for the purposes of her horse breeding studline. I believe many of the royals conduct some private business (and socializing) that is not a well-known part of heir public appearances.

[quote]he Queen has embarked on several voyages to the Bluegrass state, taking place in 1984, 1986, 1989, 1991, and 2007, all of which she has enjoyed immensely. In October of 1984, the Queen made a private six-day visit to Kentucky horse country to tour some of the state’s most prestigious stud farms. During her visit, she stayed at the reputable Lane’s End Farm on the outskirts of Lexington in Versailles, Kentucky. Queen Elizabeth II has been known to keep many of her horses at this very farm. Her trip to the Keeneland races prompted the inaugural Queen Elizabeth II Challenge Cup race, with a purse of $500,000. In May of 1991, Queen Elizabeth II visited ten different Lexington thoroughbred farms in order to negotiate breeding arrangements for her several broodmares living in Kentucky. These farms are indeed fit for a queen.

R103 For the Catholic monarchs like the King of Spain, King of the Belgians or the Grand Duke of Luxembourg the are members of the Catholic church but not heads of the church as that of course falls to the Pope. King Felipe of Spain and King Philippe of Belgium as constitutional monarchs do what their respective government tells them to do even if privately goes against their religious views. Henri, the Grand Duke of Luxembourg however refused to grant royal assent to a bill that would legalize euthanasia on religious grounds. The Luxembourg government then amended the constitution so that the Grand Duke no longer had to formally grant assent before it becomes law. The new amended constitution means that once a bill is passed in parliament it's automatically law and the Duke's signature is an acknowledgement of the bill but not assent. If the Duke doesn't sign a bill, it still becomes law.

Queen Elizabeth II almost never goes to visit her European cousins abroad for big events like weddings, funerals or birthdays the rare exceptions are: she attended the funeral of King Baudouin of Belgium in 1993 and Queen Juliana of the Netherlands's 25th wedding anniversary in 1962. So most of the Queen's visits with foreign royals take place in private. As stated before, Queen Margrethe of Denmark is a frequent visitor as is Princess (formerly Queen) Beatrix of the Netherlands. The Queen typically invites them to dine and sleep events at Windsor castle which basically you come to dinner at Windsor and spend the night. The Queen is also very fond of King Harald and Queen Sonja of Norway but I don't know how often they see each other. Here is some interesting gossip, allegedly the Queen was never fond of King Albert II and Queen Paola of Belgium. Indeed, Albert II is the only European monarch whom the Queen never appointed to the Order of the Garter and there was no state visit between Belgium and the UK during Albert's reign. I have no idea what the issue was but the Queen has already appointed the new King of the Belgians to the Royal Victorian Order.

Queen Elizabeth II is not anti-gay at all. She was raised surrounded by gay men who worked at the palace

It sounding more and more like a murder/cover up.

Don't be ridiculous!! [R106] 😆

I find it odd that apparently Henrik wanted a private funeral for friends and family only yet it was broadcast live on TV.

Thank you for your courteous and detailed reply [R105] That's interesting about the previous King of Belgium and his wife. I do recall reading that Queen Paola was not popular with the Belgium public and was seen as quite aloof and self seeking. Apparently her sister in law Queen Fabiola? Held much more of the publics affection. She was the widow of the previous King but sadly due to multiple miscarriages had no heirs so the throne went to his younger brother and Queen Paola.

Fabiola though was were national affection was more directed. I think I have gotten the broad details right anyway! But I think with regards to the British Queen she doesn't by disposition of personality seem to be a natural grudge bearer so if King Albert has upset her or seriously unimpressed her then it must be pretty bad! Heck she's always been on good terms with Fergie and despite the impression that Diana gave by omission the Queen kept in touch with her regularly via private meetings and letters after she separated from Charles. She's definitely not a petty woman.

I wonder what it is about monarchy specifically the British monarchy that draws so many gay men into the ranks to serve it eg butlers, servants etc I wonder if monarchy has this gay magnet effect in other European monarchies or if its a peculiarly British phenomenon?

I wonder how many of the current European monarchs Queen Elizabeth will outlive? I've a feeling quite a few!

R109 I don't know much about the Belgian Royals so I'm not sure what the exact cause of the alleged rift between Queen Elizabeth II and King Albert II. The fact that he never was never made a Stranger Knight of the Order of the Garter is unprecedented for the Queen as she's a stickler for protocol and all European monarch whom the Queen is related to are made Knights. I have read that the relationship between the British Royals and the Belgian Royals became strained during WWII due to King Leopold III's controversial actions.

As for gay men and the monarchy it was the Queen's parents who started the "tradition" of only hiring 'confirmed bachelors' as pages and butlers allegedly because the Queen Mother didn't want any one hitting on or even sleeping with her daughters. The Queen Mum was a life long fag hag.

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R111 I don't thing see has ever shed a tear in public before

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R113 Queen Margrethe has been a chain smoker all her adult life. I never understood why she has never bothered to get her teeth cleaned.

Can we get the Royal Prince's physician to make a house call to the White House?

Thanks [R110] I imagine there's something deep in the royal and government archives about the Belgian authorities and royal family that may possibly come out in future that helps to explains this. Or possibly not if its very sensitive. Of course it could be as simple as the Queen didn't like the Belgian Queen's fashion sense and took against the whole family for life butterflies I doubt it! 😉 😁

I love the idea of the Queen Mother as a big lifetime faghag! There have been for a long time humorous stories on the gay scene in the UK especially on the London scene that the Queen Mother good naturedly used to call down to the male servants from one Queen to another I think I am ready for a drink - Infact I think the story was she said This Queen also likes a stiff drink (pun intended) One can never be sure if this story was slightly embroidered by gossipy male servants but it made its way onto the London gay scene in the 1980s.

Would I be right in thinking Princess Margaret may also have been a bit of a faghag too? She too seems the type who would be very at ease around gay men? As Denmark was one if not the first country in the world to legalise gay marriage would It also be correct to say Queen Margarethe is also quite fine around gay men?

R116 There maybe something in the family archives at Windsor that might give details on the alleged rift between the Belgians and Brits. It's interesting because they were once very close. King Leopold I was Queen Victoria's Uncle and they were exceptionally close. It's nice to see that relations have thawed with King Philippe as they have visited the Queen a few times in the past few years.

The stories about the Queen Mother referring to her male (mostly gay) staff as queens is very true. Her favourite staff member was Billy Tallon who was flaming and was often caught bringing men into Clarence House and the Queen Mother would dismiss complaints saying "well you know how Billy is." She also gave Billy a grace and favour apt. on the ground of Kensington Palace where he lived with his partner for many years. The Queen Mother was also good friends with Noel Coward and Cecil Beaton.

Queen Margrethe has never expressed any opinions on the LGBT rights however she has met numerous same-sex partners of government officials and foreign ambassadors. She is an artist at heart so I can't see her being closed minded about this.

Prince Henrik as a little boy

[R117] Would you say there are any faghags today in the British royal family? The Queen Mother on one level surprises me as I tend to think of her as being prim proper and puritanical! How wrong my childhood impressions of her via the media were!

Bump in hope that the lovely guy who has been conversing with me on here with his thoughtful royal insight on European monarrchies etc spots this post and picks up the thread of the conversation again and spots previous posts like [R119] 😍 👍

R120 Sorry I haven't been on this thread for a while.

R119 I don't think there's any overt fag hags in the British royals these days. Harry, Kate, & William are very much people of their generation and have no issues with the LGBT community and fully support gay rights. Interestingly Diana was something of a fag hag having a lot of gay friends but a couple of her biographers have stated that she was paranoid that one of her sons might turn out to be gay so she surrounded them boy "macho" influences. I don't think it was so much homophobia as more concern that a gay child in the royal family would force to be closeted and marry.

Edward and his wife Sophie also have many gay friends which stem back to Edward's days in the theatre. Contrary to rumours, Edward is not gay himself those rumours started after Edward quit the Royal Marines and decided to pursue a career in the entertainment industry. He has several serious girlfriends before meeting Sophie. With the Queen's permission, Edward and Sophie lived together for years before they finally got married in 1999. The reason for this was Edward did not want this marriage to end in divorce and he wanted to give Sophie every opportunity to see what royal life would be like and give her the chance to say no thanks before they got married. Edward, although spoiled, is probably the kindest and most down to earth of the Queen's children, and the Queen is very fond of Sophie the only of her children's spouses that she's actually been close to.

Anyone see the first joint engagement between Harry, Meghan, Kate and William. It was very interesting to see the awkward body language between Kate and Meghan. This certainly will not help the rumours that they dislike one another.

The guy starts speaking some home truths and then the next week he's suddenly "demented" and when that doesn't shut him up, he "conveniently" dies.

It was murder.

Crown Prince Frederik seems like a nice guy. Very sporty but intellectually stupid. You can see by how his kids adore him that he is a good father. Mary is a cold fish.

[R121] Thanks for your quick reply! I think the funeral guest list for Princess Diana was a good indication that she was a faghag. Elton John, George Michael, Wayne Sleep, Paul Burrell and I dare say Gianni Versace would have been invited if he hadn't of been shot dead less than two months earlier.

I certainly agree that Diana wasn't homophobic and I'm sure she was aware that one of the most loyal and enduring parts of her support base or fan base if you like were gay men. Even many gay men critical of her retained an affection for her.

I do wonder what would happen in the future if a hypothetical future British Prince or Princess was gay? Would closeting still be seen as paramount? Sure it would be easier than previous generations but would a public face of heterosexual married life still be a semi 'necessity'?

Could you imagine any European monarchy having an openly gay monarch or heir to the throne in future decades? I think there have been rumours about the sexuality of all three of the Queens son's. I recall hearing a rumour that I hasten to add I give little credence too that Sarah Ferguson payed a surprise visit to Prince Andrew on a navy ship to find him in bed having sexual relations with a male crew member! I believe the rumours that Andrew sleeps around like a male tart but not with men!

Now that I luckily enough caught your attention online could you please indulge me on my next question even though there's an element of tongue in cheek combined with a serious point!

We live in politically volatile and strange times. I hope this never comes to fruition but let's pretend for arguments sake that a future government in a European country with a monarchy adopts an extreme policy towards the gay community. Say a far right government is elected and wants to enact a new law of mandatory testing of pregnant women's foetuses in order to establish via a blood test or genetic scan the likelihood of their child growing up to be gay. If the likelihood is high say above 75% then the pregnancy must be terminated. Horrible awful and chilling. Which of the future monarchs from Prince William (or Charles), Frederick of Denmark, Victoria of Sweden etc etc would argue and fight tooth and nail privately with their Prime Minister to drop the legislation? Who would fight like hell to refuse to sign it into law and withhold Royal assent? I can't imagine any of them liking the law but who would be the most voracious angry battling opponent of it? How would it work and play out?

I'm genuinely interested in how such a clash on a sensitive worrying matter would be handled and the potential characters and personalities involved?

E124 I have heard the rumours about Prince Andrew and actually about Charles too but take them with a grain of salt. Andrew may be bisexual but only because I think he is a sex addict. Funny bisexuality is not all that uncommon in royal and aristocratic circles.

I think even in our modern world, a royal who is within a heart beat of the throne would have to remain closeted. I think the idea of marrying and producing heirs is deeply ingrained in them. There is an unwritten rule within royalty that your duty is to get married and reproduce but nothing wrong with having affairs as long as you keep them out of the limelight. I do think however that in 20 years when George and Charlotte are adults it won't matter but maybe I'm being too hopeful.

As for the scenario your propose yikes! I'm assuming that type of legislation would be deemed unconstitutional by higher courts or the UN. Each of the monarchies have different powers. For example, the Swedish Monarch is totally a figure head and has absolutely no political power whatsoever. The Swedish monarch has no power to appoint or dismiss a Prime Minister. I'm sure behind the scenes Victoria would resist and perhaps even be compelled to speak out publicly. In the UK, the monarch would have the right to withhold royal assent if the bill were to pass through the house and the Lords. In theory Charles or William could dismiss the Prime Minister or could dissolve parliament and call an election to allow the British people to vote. However if the government won it would mean whomever is on the throne would likely be forced to abdicate.

The rumours about Christian Friis Bach and Princess Mary are not true. I have met Christian Friis Bach and his wife. They are a very loving and devoted couple. I would understand if Mary had a crush on Christian Friis Bach. He is very intelligent (unlike like prince Freddy) and a very kind person who is very devoted to his wife.

R126 because politicians who appear devoted to their wives never have affairs.

R121 I would not be surprised, a lot of people dont have a problem with people of a different sexual orientation, religion, & race as long as it is not their family or trying to join it.

r127 I know Friis Bach and his wife personally. Christian is not the type of man who'd cheat on his wife. When his wife (who is also a well-known politician in DK) had cancer he was so caring and loving towards her. This past Christmas I attended a Christmas party with the Friis Bachs and they were clearly a very loving couple.

Cheers again [R125] I do suspect at some point I will have to start a generic royal discussion thread as we may be deemed off topic in my own thread at some point! Anyway I'm at my local cinema now about to watch Oscar nominated Ladybird but I have plenty of questions for you when I can post afterwards if you would be so kind as to indulge me! You do have a brilliant mind, engaging manner and a charming and informed manner about you!

R130 ask away.

Hi [R131]

When you talk of royal culture having expectations that you marry and produce heirs and continue the bloodline. That it is seen as a duty and almost a social code for them. Would it be right to say that this is a way of looking at things that is prevalent throughout the whole of the British upper classes and aristocracy? I specifically mean the traditional aristocracy rather than new money or the nouveau rich. I can see that they are not especially coming at this from a strongly religious angle (afterall the church of England is increasingly step by step becoming lgbt friendly. What I am asking in a long winded way is the following

1)Is closeting accepted practice or form amongst the British upper classes or is it confined to royalty? 2) Is closeting a conscious decision on the part of the non gay spouse or are they unaware their bearding? 3) The upper classes seem less angsty about sexual infidelity as you suggest discretion is key. Would you align this acceptance of sexual infidelity in your mind as I do with why they accept and expect bearding and closeting from lgbt folk amongst their ranks? 4) I'm not suggesting their not romantic or loving but it seems that the upper classes and royalty on the whole have a view of marriage that goes beyond romantic love. Perhaps a view or understanding of marriage that to some from the outside would seem unusual or strange? I have more questions but I don't want to push my luck and overload with too much in one post.

I am grateful to you by the way for your patience and indulgence of my curious mind. 😘😎👍

Bump for the attention of [R131] hoping they spot it!

R132 For both royals and the aristocracy the priority has always been to produce [male] heirs to ensure the survival of the dynasty (in the case of royals) and the family title (in the case of aristocracy), and this largely still in effect today. Legitimate heirs can only be produced through marriage hence the importance of marriage in these circles. We have to remember that our view of marriage, i.e. marrying for love, is a relatively a new concept. For most of European history, marriage was view in far more pragmatic terms rather than romantic terms. Royalty and the upper classes married largely for political and monetary reasons and in royal circles most marriages were arranged as opposed to being love matches. It's only recent that royals have started marrying for love as opposed to dynastic matches.

Most Royals and people in the aristocracy remain largely conservative for example while the more senior branch of the royal family such as the Queen, Charles and William are socially progressive, they are likely all small 'c' conservatives. I think to them and to much of the aristocracy the priority remains the continuation of the family line. Many royal and aristocratic marriages had arrangements that once heirs were produced partners were free to do as they wished as long as they avoided public scandal. Up until recently, a gay royal or member of the aristocracy would have to keep their sexuality as tightly wrapped because until the 60s homosexuality was still a criminal offence. I suspect some wives might have suspected or known but it would have been kept under wraps. For example, the Queen's Uncle, George Duke of Kent, was a notorious bisexual who had affairs with Noel Coward and other society men and while it was known in Royal circles, it was kept under wraps for decades after his death.

I agree it was murder to shut that fucka up. He was spilling the royal secrets.

Thanks again [R134] For your detailed and thoughtful reply. If I could explore this issue a little more and you could please indulge me I'd be grateful! You've mentioned that once at least the initial heirs are born then infidelity is tolerated or even totally nor a problem as long as discretion is assured. But here are the angles I am interested in clarifying.

1)If somebody is say the third or fourth son of somebody with a family title and is pretty far away from realistically having the role of carrying on the family title....... Now that the wider social taboo around homosexuality is much less in the UK would it be considered OK and acceptable for them to be open about their sexuality and even marry a same sex partner?Whereas in the past social taboo and much more 'traditional' religious society would have prevented all from being open regardless,, Would the so called spares to aristocratic family titles now be at liberty to do as they wish love life wise with impunity? Or do you see that state of affairs being close on the horizon?

2) My understanding is (which may be flawed!) that when parliament reformed the rules about there being a presumption in favour of the male heir back in 2012 when Kate Middleton was pregnant for the first time to do away with the presumption. That the legislation around this issue was also relevant or extended to aristocratic family titles so that in future daughters can also inherit these titles etc rather than just the first born son? Am I correct and if so how much of a gamechanger if any is it in terms of altering the traditional aristocratic culture you've previously outlined?

3) When you say infidelity is tolerated once the initial heirs are born _Do you just mean that there is any acceptance of sexual infidelity or is falling in love with someone over the long term who is not your spouse also deemed as being part of what's deemed acceptable as long as its discrete? In terms of a gay aristocratic in a married relationship with a woman how would this work? I get that they seem to be fine with their husband fulfilling their need for sex by going with other men. But what would their attitude to love be? If their marriage was either basically a close friendship or a less emotional marriage of convience. What would the likely reaction of a wife be to her husband loving another man and having a proper relationship with him? Would that be a no no and too far or is that covered by what you say about them being free to do whatever they want?

Just so we can stay on topic I find it interesting what you say about the duke of Kent but again where these just sexual encounters or more romantic and loving than that? Do any of the other European monarrchies have in their historic closets any Duke of Kents of their own?

Again thank you for your continuing patience by the way.

R136 To answer your questions:

1)I think it would depend on the family and the child in question (as in any family) but I would hope that in today's world any son or child of hereditary nobility would be able to live their life as they pleased. But I would also say producing heirs would be ingrained in all the sons minds. We're not just talking titles but many members of the aristocracy own large and historical estates they only remain in the family if there are heirs. I still think open homosexuality is still somewhat frowned upon in aristocratic circles today thought.

2) The Laws pertaining to the line of succession were changed in 2012 allowing for the first born child of the monarch or heir regardless of sex to inherit. It did not, however, change the inheritance of aristocratic titles and so most are still male only inheritance (with a few exceptions). I'm not an expert in this area but my belief is that this stems from the origin of most titles. Most titles originated directly from the Crown through Letters Patent not from acts of Parliament so there is something of a legal uncertainty about whether parliament can actually legislate how the titles are passed down. Letter Patents are legal documents issued by the monarch to confer a title or powers to a person and they can only be issued and edited by the monarch not parliament. Some private bills have been but forward to try and change the laws but they have never passed first readings. It's likely if the government wanted to get rid of male only inheritance for hereditary titles, the government would have to have the Queen reissue every letters patent.

3) Historically anyways most aristocratic marriages were more like a business arrangement. There is an old adage that was widely used in the Victorian era "marry first, love second." The hope in many of these marriages was that they couples might not be in love at first but perhaps would fall in love during the course of their marriage. That didn't always happen and both sexual and love affairs were tolerated particularly for men. Women had limited agency and divorce was too taboo so some would be fine with their husband sleeping and falling in love with other women, while others would turn the other way. Some aristocratic couples would lead separate lives with the some men even living with their mistresses over their wives. I was say at least until the 20th century most aristocratic marriages were more friends or partners more than lovers.

Prince George, Duke of Kent had numerous affairs with both men and women some were sexual others were very deep loving relationships. HE married Princess Marina of Greece and while they had three children and I think loved each other, she largely turned her head and looked the other way. Writer Cecil Roberts was said to have been on of the great loves of George's life whereas his relationship with Noel Coward was mostly sexual.

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r136: King Gustav V of Sweden was gay, or at least bisexual. Prince Eugen of Sweden, son of King Oskar II, was also gay, although very very discrete. He was a painter and became an art patron and also built a very tasteful home in central Stockholm, now a museum open to the public. The china flower pots he designed are still very popular and a classic Swedish gift.

[quote]R111 Seeing Queen Margrethe in tears really broke my heart.

Does her pussy stink?

Thanks again [R137] and [R139] for your detailed replies. I'm assuming you are the same person?

The Scandinavian societies seem historically more enlightened and pro LGBQT at every level of society. Not sure why but it is striking? Perhaps the colder weather is a factor as they need to embrace more ways to keep warm and warm the heart with fun and cheer?! 😉 Seriously though it is intriguing.

Do these societies have a sizeable upper class and it's accompanying culture or is that more distinct to the UK and its monarch?

Some more random questions if I may please?

In terms of bearding amongst the aristocracy we have focused a lot naturally on gay men but are the same principles pretty much applicable to lesbians also? I think it must be easier for an upper class gay male to find a willing bearding partner than it is for an upper class lesbian to find a willing straight man to be her bearding husband? Any thoughts on this please? To my mind that suggests a significant number of these bearding relationships are between gay men and lesbians? I'm not being sarcastic here when I suggest that is creating a beautiful and unique genetic combination for the future that would not exist without these social strictures? Interesting

Also when the offspring of a bearding British aristocratic couple become young adults do they develop an understanding that their parents are in a bearding relationship of sorts and is it introduced to them in a way were in a very upper class distinct way they accept it as part of life? Curious and thankful

Oh, please, Diana reminds me exactly of the type of woman who would hate her sons to be gay! And not because she worried about a gay son in the royal family. They were her gay hangers on, the artistic types to amuse her and listen to her sad stories. The mere fact she thought having macho influences would keep her sons from being gay shows that she didn't understand it. You just want to believe it didn't bother her.

R141 I honestly believe that much of Scandinavia's more tolerant attitude towards LGBTQ rights stems from the lack of religious fervor and frank practicality. Secularism in Scandinavia obviously has played a role in perpetuating progressive stances on social rights issues as there is no strong religious conservationism driving political movements. Also just from my time living in Sweden I can tell you Scandinavians are extremely practical people so whereas in America or even in the UK people tend to get very worked up about political or social issues, in the Scandinavian countries people tend to just shrug their shoulders and just get on with their private lives. The only issue I have ever seen Scandinavians really get riled up about is immigration. Even with their progressive attitudes, Denmark, Norway and Sweden have reputations as being somewhat xenophobic.

Lesbianism within the upper classes is a hard topic to discuss because unlike male homosexuality, lesbianism was almost entirely off the radar until the latter half of the 20th century. Prior to this women had no real options in life but to get married so I think a lesbian wouldn't have had the historic need to beard because they would have been forced into marriage regardless. Also in today's upper classes, lets remember that titles still go through the male line, so a lesbian daughter could probably just go off and do what she wanted because the future line of the family didn't depend on her.

As for children of the upper classes, lets just say most don't have warm and cozy relationships with their parents. There is still very much a mentality in these circles that children are raised more by a nanny and they are usually shipped off to boarding schools. So I think if they found their parents were bearding, it probably just be one issued piled up against many others.

Sounds like Crown Prince Frederik is drinking too much again

r 141: I think that the Scandinavian way is very much "mind your own things" and don't interfere too much with what others are doing. Plus we aren't very religious and religion became less and less important after the Enlightenment. And the nobility and wealthy upper class has always played by their own rules, have large estates where they can do whatever they want and don't mingle with the peasants, so who knows what they have been up to?

As for gay nobility: I think that that many gay and lesbian people from the nobility or wealthy upper class just chose to never get married. There are many examples of men and women who stayed single their whole lives - they had the money to support themselves without a spouse - and there are rumours about them that they just weren't interested in men/women. I'm not sure how aware people were of lesbian love before the 21:st century. Rich women often had a "Lady's companion", a woman, often from the same class, who helped them with their daily duties. Some of them probably were girlfriends, camouflaged as employees. Noble men had secretaries or servants or "close friends" who lived in the same household. Apparently gay relationships, long or short, were very common in the military in the late 1800's and 1900's and it was a sort of "don't ask, don't tell" policy about it. Many noble men became officers so I guess they solved it that way.

I also have the impression that there were a lot of marriages of convenience among the nobility. They knew their duties (get married to someone from their own class, have heirs, take care of the estate and/or fortune so you can pass it on to the next generation) and knew that they were expected to get married. After their duties were done, they could live separate lives and have discrete affairs, with men or women.

More Swedish royals who were rumored to be gay: Queen Kristina of Sweden. Never married, thought of marriage as disgusting. Had a noble chamber maid that she was very close to. Abdicated, became catholic and moved to Rome. King Karl XII. Never married, no rumours of mistresses, ever. Said that he was "married to the army", and spent the majority of his life at war, living in a tent on the battlefield with lots of men. Died in battle. King Gustav III. Married to a woman, but had difficulties in the sack and it took years before the queen became pregnant. Loved the opera and fashion, no mistresses. Gay rumours during his lifetime, nothing confirmed. Killed at the Opera by a gang of noble men. His sister, Sofia Albertina never married. She had a lot of suitors but was reported to be not interested in men. King Karl XIV Johan. French marchal who spent most of his time on the battlefield before he was elected king of Sweden. Married to a woman, but had only one child. The King and Queen spent most of their time apart, he in Sweden, she in Paris. He had no mistresses, but was very close to count Magnus Brahe, a Swedish noble man who was his aide de camp. When the king died, the aide de camp sat with him at his deathbed, heartbroken, and died shortly after. Princess Eugenie, daughter of King Oskar I. Never married, was reported to not be interested in men. Often said that she wished that she had been born as a boy.

We're gayer than I thought.

Frede is aging badly.

I had a professor, who was a vicious alcoholic, who had the exact same injury as Frede after falling down some stairs.

R146 woof he looks haggard!

Loving this thread. Can anyone recommend a book about gay royals in history? If it doesn't exist r145 must write it.

r148: I don't think there are any books about gay royals. It was illegal to be homosexual and nothing has been made official about their sexual orientation. You usually have to read between the lines in their biographies where they can be described as "effeminate" or "she prefered the company of women". That's about as far as they go.