So, I've been binge watching "Wings"!

Cheers is also homophobic

Cheers had a pretty gay positive episode in the first season.

It was based in MAINE, OP. Back then, not so gay friendly a place. Don't leave the coast, even today.

Actually, it was based in Nantucket, which is in Mass.

You're right R4. I was probably remembering the flight schedule. OP, why the fuck would you do this to yourself to begin with?

I loved this show once upon a time. Joe Hackett was supremely fuckable. What a beautiful man! It was funny, too. I recall one episode where the character Faye was thought to be a Black Widow-type after Brian watched a America's Most Wanted profile about a Faye look alike. That episode is the only one that I still remember.

I used to think it was funny, too. But now I've been triggered.

I watched Wings regularly back in the day but never thought it was all that funny even then. It must have been on between two other shows I watched. That said, Daly and Weber were pretty dreamy, and Lucky Vanous (The Diet Coke Guy) showed up in a brief cameo once. Sadly, he was not in his briefs.

WHET to Lucky anyway? He had some cheesy syndicated TV show about a truck driver, then poof, nothing.

Gay Panic was a reliable joke for hack writers for a long, long time. It's everywhere.

Not derail the thread, but I know Vanous did a pin-up-ish calendar (I had it), and I believe he also did a fitness workout tape (now available for a quarter at the First Presbyterian Church's rummage sale on the VHS shelf.) He did what he could while the iron was hot, but, yeah, poof, nothing since.

Damn near every show was homophobic back then. The only ones progressive with regard to homosexuality were the Golden Girls and Roseanne. For every other show and movie, the thought of same-sex attraction was just sooo impossible and repulsive that you were expected to laugh at the lamest gags as long as homosexuality was implied.

The Golden Girls and Roseanne were the only shows that actually treated us like human beings.

Like R8, I don't remember Wings being funny. I can't imagine wanting to rewatch it.

I blame a lot of that shit on Liberace.

I don't find Monty Python to be funny, that doesn't mean other people don't, R13.

R12, The Golden Girls was progressive on gay issues? I thought they made the same jokes the other sitcoms of the time did.

The 2 older actors are gay in real life, FWIW.

The round guy and the lady at the counter?

"Tonight, on 'Wings' ... ah, who cares?"

Is it a good show?

R20, it's no Caroline in the City.

The funniest episode is when they thought Faye was a murderer.

And the one where Lowell played the "Entertainment Tonight" theme on the piano.

And the brothers were scorching hot!

R22 That episode was really funny! It is the only one I remember too. I know I watched just about every episode too.

But wasn't the gay panic supposed to act to make them look like buffoons?

Remember when "binge watching 'Wings' meant watching USA anytime between 6 PM and 6 AM? It seemed like the only show for which they had syndication rights.

Wings was never funny -- it was always almost funny... but never got there. Had good ratings, but not great. Didn't win awards, didn't launch any careers.

Purely mediocre.

They did an episode where Roy's son played by Abraham Benrubi was gay and Roy was freaking out. It was oddly pro-gay for the time.

And Faye was the only reason to watch the show. The Latka Gravas rip-off that Tony Shalhoub did was grating.

My goodness! Such harsh criticism. I thought the show was quite charming. It even made me consider moving to Nantucket to run a lunch room counter.

The character of Roy had to be one of the ugliest and most lecherous ever. Did anyone else think he resembled Adolf Hitler?

I liked how weird Crystal Bernard's character became in the later years. She was no longer the "hot girl" that Joe wanted but a bizarre, quirky weirdo herself, just like the rest. At first, she was a goody-goody character for the rest to bounce off of.

Same with Faye. She also got weirder and much bitchier, as opposed to her Confused Old Lady act in the beginning.

I loved the show and watched it every week. It started because I thought the Bros were hot but then ended up enjoying the series for itself.

But I hated the bitch with the big breasts and I DESPISED Amy Yasbeck.

Those two were horrid blemishes on a cute, fun show.

Weber's vintage neckties were the best thing about the show.

I liked Wings. Didn't love it, but it always entertained me enough to keep tuning in, although admittedly it was partially in hopes of seeing a shirtless Hackett. I never munched cared for Yasbeck on the show, but a few years later she co-starred on Carol Liefer's WB sitcom "Alright Already" and she was funny in that. I really loved that show, but I was one of about twelve people watching.

Saturday Night Live is the worst about this. If you've never paid attention, notice how many jokes or skits revolve around a gay theme. It's not as offensiveas it is boring and unfunny.

I watch, anyway.

What is does, OP, is make you realize how far we've come since then ("Modern Family" excepted)

All those gay jokes were a given back then. Sort of the way casual racism was accepted in the 1930s and 40s.

Oh please! Stop being so sensitive. Are you one of those people who complain when minorities claim racism and say "can't you take a joke." It's always ok when it's someone else but when YOU are the butt of a joke, then all bets are off.

The actor playing Roy was homosexual, yes?

Beauty.

[quote]I watched Wings regularly back in the day but never thought it was all that funny even then. It must have been on between two other shows I watched.

Exactly! That's my memory of it, too, R8. Wings was that show that was on between other shows!

It aired Thursday nights between Cheers & L.A. Law for its first 2.5 seasons (how sweet is that?!)..... and then it was between Mad About You & Seinfeld. Then it moved to Tuesday night, as lead in to News Radio & Frasier.

I recall watching Wings and wanting Tim Daly to destroy me but as I got older I started liking Steven Weber's "Brian" character more.

I agree with the other poster who mentioned that Helen/Crystal Bernard's evolution from boring character to quirky weird character was a great change.

Same with Rebecca Schull's Fay character or rather "Fay Evelyn Schlob Dumbly DeVay Cochran" ("Old soldiers never die they just Fay DeVay!") going from confused old woman to, kindly but bitchy if you cross her older woman who delivered stories about her life perfectly. I loved her interactions with David Schramm/Roy who was the perfect foil.

Never cared for Farrah Forke/Alex Lambert or Amy Yasbeck's/Casey characters. I think Amy made Helen more interesting at first but after a while it got tired. Lowell was fun the first few seasons but as Thomas Haden Church became more popular and eventually left the series for his own, I was over him. Tony Shalhoub's Antonio Scarpacci was fun in small doses.

I do believe SNL made fun of the fact that Wings aired on the USA Network at last 6 times a day.

Also, fun fact: Cheers, Frasier and Wings all took place in the same universe.

[quote]I loved this show once upon a time. Joe Hackett was supremely fuckable.

I always have thought this too

[quote]Tony Shalhoub's Antonio Scarpacci was fun in small doses.

He totally ruined the show. I could never watch it once he was on, his borderline racist accent made Dick Van Dyke's cockney look legit.

[quote]his borderline racist accent made Dick Van Dyke's cockney look legit.

Oh no! They actually had an Italian character use an Italian accent?

R32, I was one of the twelve who also loved "Alright Already"!

[quote] But wasn't the gay panic supposed to act to make them look like buffoons?

It did, but not in a good way. [italic]Friends[/italic] was even worse in this respect and that's one of the reasons I find it unwatchable then and now.

"didn't launch any careers."

Not really true. Shalhoub and Haden Church have both had good careers as film character actors and TV leads. Neither Daly nor Webber became stars but both have worked steadily, too.

Wings/Cheers/Fraser at least had jokes (bad or good, depending on your outlook). Friends was heavy on "Joke-like-substance" such as Phoebe falling back on "Rita Phalanges" and the others doing the same on their shtick when no real joke could be concocted

R16 the Golden Girls made fun of Anita Bryant and had a same-sex married gay guy in a guest role. Also Blanche's (hot) brother was gay and had a commitment ceremony on the show. Dorothy's friend was lesbian. All of these were treated sympathetically plus they had at least 2 episodes about HIV/AIDS in the mid-80s, when it was pretty well perceived as a gay issue.

R46 could you [bold]BE[/bold] any meaner?

I Hated the Alex Lambert character-didn't feel she added anything to the show and was glad when she left. Same with the substitute Lowell they brought in who lasted about 3 episodes.

Bullshit, R35. A joke would have been one of the brothers being gay-but why would Casey have, as her fantasy future, BOTH brothers being not only gay but the most flamingly offensive stereotypes imaginable?

Geez, talk about Night of the Living Doilies.

"Wings" was funny-one of the few shows in the last 2-3 decades I've liked enough to follow. I especially enjoyed the scheming, malevolent Roy. And speaking of Roy, has no one recalled that he drove a purple(!) El Camino? It was the butt of several jokes as I recall. The ep. I remember best was when Helen's long-ago flame comes back to town, and is best remembered by all for his hideous laugh-as Weber's character put it, "like a pack mule after a double-espresso", or something like that. I won't spoil it for anyone who hasn't seen it. Good stuff.

The guy with the laugh was a friend of Joe's-not a long ago flame of Helen's. They dated briefly and he dumped her because he couldn't stand her accent. He was played by Steven Eckholdt.

How can yall remember all these details about Wings? I remember liking the show, but I couldn't describe an episode if my life depended on it. The collective Total Recall of DL is very impressive.

R53, or very, very sad, depending on your perspective.

[quote]I was one of the twelve who also loved "Alright Already"!

I loved Alright Already also. I wish I could find all the episodes somewhere.

As for the Golden Girls, I always flash back to that line when Blanche tells that gay sales clerk, "you're ready to just fly outta here aren't you?" I always thought that was very homophobic. Loved the show, but I never viewed it as gay friendly.

[quote]As for the Golden Girls, I always flash back to that line when Blanche tells that gay sales clerk, "you're ready to just fly outta here aren't you?"

Turn in your gay card. He was the caterer at Sophia's wedding.

Add to the Cheers/Frasier/Wings universe St. Elsewhere as the Drs. of St. Elegius went to Cheers once and interacted with Norm and Cliff. Which means...

WEHT Steven Eckholt??

i recently rewatched Wings as well. It had some very funny episodes and the brothers were HOT. Loved when Joe would where his shorts and work out. I did notice some homophobic jokes but I think that was pretty common and tame compared toothed shows. Also, as another poster pointed out, Roy's son was gay and they had some vey positivity episodes about him and Roy dealing with it in a realistic but ultimately positive way.

I think it jumped the shark when a house burned down because Brian and Casey where having sex- just like the season before when Joe and Helen's house burned down.

Steven Eckholdt is now 56.

The name is REGINA, R46.

Haven't watched it in years, wonder how it would hold up now. The brothers played off well together, and as has been posted above, it was savvy of the creators to evolve Crystal Bernard's character from boring observer to quirky participant -- I remember being amused when she was the butt of jokes. Fay (Black Widow episode was hilarious) and Roy funny, Lowell and Antonio okay in small doses. Farrah Forke was awful (glad they ditched her) and Amy Yasbeck okay. I also vaguely remember "big sandwich" being a running gag, and a nasty takedown of characters obviously based on the Judds.

R59-Helen's house burned down first because Brian and Casey were having sex (Brian threw Casey's bra too close to the fire). Joe's House (which was given to Brian) burned down next because Joe and Helen were having sex. after smoking a cigar that landed in some newspapers.

[quote] "didn't launch any careers." ... Not really true. Shalhoub and Haden Church have both had good careers as film character actors and TV leads.

Yeah, that's a ridiculous statement, as 45 points out, both wen ton to major work. Shalhoub was nominated for 8 Emmys and won 3 , with a Golden Globe and 2 SAGS for "Monk' and Haden Church has a bunch of awards and an Oscar nomination for "Sideways" in addition to all his screen work.

When I binge watched a few years ago on YouTube, the main thing I noticed was how it did not looked dated or out of place twenty years later since fashion (and so much else) stopped evolving around then.

Even the Cessna 402 remains popular as a small charter plane.

Helen's high-waisted jeans went out of style in 1996, though.

Racism, sexism, and homophobia from thirty years ago MUST. BE. STOPPED!!!

Best episode... Season 6, Episode 12: "She's Baaack" guest starring Valerie Mahaffey who is laugh out loud funny and should have won an Emmy.

Recently saw a hilarious episode featuring DL legend Rose Marie as Roy’s abrasive mother. Some episodes hold up really well, and this was definitely one of them!

[quote] So, I've been binge watching "Wings"!

And to think that I thought my life was pathetic...

[quote]Saturday Night Live is the worst about this. If you've never paid attention, notice how many jokes or skits revolve around a gay theme. It's not as offensiveas it is boring and unfunny. I watch, anyway.

This is how we get meretricious crap like sWill & DisGrace passed off as progress.

Abraham Benrubi played Roy's son, and was also Koob on "Parker Lewis Can't Lose" around that time. I liked him but he was one of those actors who grins constantly, which was a touch irritating.

He was on "ER" for years and now does a lot of voiceovers.

There were a lot of quotables on the show, like when Joe was later telling Brian about how he and Helen ended up accidentally flirting or kissing as they were making dinner: "One minute we were slapping each other with meat, the next minute it got weird."

Everyone angry about the big sandwich was pretty great, too. "We are a simple people. We fish our waters, we till our lands, we eat a big sandwich."

Antonio's joke about the beaded seat cover ("Once you learn to grip it, it's like a second skin") just showed up in something I watched recently. Bob's Burgers maybe?

why in the hell would you want to binge-watch that shit? my god, find something else!

Another bonus was that Tim Daly managed to get shirtless occasionally — always a treat!

I read that role of Helen was created with Peri Gilpin in mind, but Brandon Tartikoff wanted someone with more sitcom experience. Over the course of the series (and via her character’s evolution) Crystal Bernard developed into an excellent comedic actress.

Why isn't Lowell in OPs picture? He was the best thing about this show.

I remember watching most of the episodes when it first came out but I barely remember anything about it anymore except my slight crush on Tim Daly. It was like Perfect Strangers, one of those filler shows that I watched because it was before or after another show I really liked.

David Schramm was hilarious on the episode where the gang played Trivial Pursuit and he was paired with Lowell, who answered every question with “Ann-Margret”! Schramm’s slow burns were a hoot.

I have never seen this show, but now I want to. Is it on Nick at Nite? Or Netflix? YouTube?

There was an episode where Brian was a boy toy to a rich older woman (played by Tyne Daly) which was pretty funny... Also an episode where Faye was in charge of a community theater production of Phantom of the Oprah...

It was cute - kind of like Mad About You - not particularly memorable, but fun to watch if you ever come across a rerun on TV land or Cozi TV or the like.

More than enough reason to watch "Wings".

Agreed, R80 — and (especially!) R81!

it was a shit show.

Perhaps the least funny of all the long-running sitcoms. Never understood why anyone liked it except the homos who drooled for Daley.

Wings-Frasier trivia: The character of Roz was named after one of the Wings producers, who died of breast cancer.

[quote]Perhaps the least funny of all the long-running sitcoms. Never understood why anyone liked it except the homos who drooled for Daley.

Glad I don't know you. Isn't there some "Webster" re-runs you could be watching?

R72, I liked Parker Lewis...my crush was Parker's other BFF, William Jayne...whet to him.

Yuck, the '90s had so many trash sitcoms and TV in general. I am glad we have so many more options now. I don't miss being prisoner to bad network TV one little bit.

"Wings" and "Empty Nest" are examples of "steal shows" - they stay on the air for years, they are not discussed at coffee break, and people are surprised that "that show is still on"?

There is no drama, no real breakout star, no divas or demands for huge raises. The actors are thankful to have a job and do their job year in and year out. And they work for years.

Trivia: The airport on Wings looks nothing like the real Nantucket airport. It's not two stories (or wasn't inthe 1980s). Yes, David Schram is gay. And the old lady apparently was a bitch (this last from a firend who worked on the show)..

^ ^ "steal shows" >>>"STEALTH shows" sorry!

Tim Daly - he's prettier than his sister Tyne!

Tim and Tyne's daddy, James Daly of "Medical Center" was gay.

I watched only because at the time I was working for a shitty little commuter airline in Arkansas and could relate to much of the shows premise. My career starter after college.

R86 -- thinks Mama's Family and Hee Haw are the essence of great comedy.

Something about those 90s sitcoms that made homophobia acceptable. I think it had to do with the TV networks' censorship of sexuality finally being eased, so producers went for the easy jokes about gays.

I just watched Seinfeld's "Not That There's Anything Wrong With It" episode, and it may be the most homophobic of them all. I can't believe they haven't pulled it from syndication.

I also had a crush on William Jayne. He's the brother of 70s teen idol Scott Jacoby.

R91 He's been nude too

Just an OT FYI that the restaurant at Nantucket airport closed recently. I thought the food was pretty bad, but my family who live there really liked it.

I never watched Wings but there seemed to be some discomfort regarding gays on Home Improvement.

Remember the old man who was played by William Hickey? I thought he was hilarious.

R97, the hamstrings of life!!!

I loved this show, Lowell was classic but his replacement Antonio was horrible. I couldn't stand the slow fake accent.

Was there ever a gay porn parody called "Wangs?"

[quote]I loved this show, Lowell was classic but his replacement Antonio was horrible.

Antonio was not Lowell's replacement. They were both on the show for several seasons.

What's the story on David Schramm? He played Roy on Wings then promptly dropped off the face of the Earth and basically hasn't had an IMDB credit since. Did he take his giant sack of Wings money and go live in a lighthouse somewhere or what?

r105 He probably spent it all on rentboys.

No one has mentioned this, vintage gossip!:

“Bernard, Crystal. "Hypocritical Christian who engages in lesbian affairs and then quickly retreats to religion and her boyfriend and pretends to be Miss Moral." Linked with Morgan Fairchild.”

[quote]And the old lady apparently was a bitch (this last from a firend who worked on the show).

Aw, I hate to hear that. Fay was my favorite character. She seemed to disappear from the show in later seasons.

R107, where did that gossip come from? I’d never heard that abut Crystal Bernard! I’d read somewhere that her father was a minister or evangelist of some sort, but I never heard any wacky religious statements from her, and I remember when she was involved with that handsome country singer Billy Dean. He even guested on an episode of “Wings”.

Schramm has done a ton of work on stage.

I want to say he's said he didn't really enjoy television work in an interview, but I can't for the life of me remember where I read that.

[quote]I read that role of Helen was created with Peri Gilpin in min

WHy? Why was Peri Gilpin so important? Wasn't she a nobody before Frasier?

The episode I remember was when Brian pulled a prank by taking Joe's camera and putting it down his pants to take dick pics. Then he waited for Joe to delevop the film.

I'm just amused that the old lady from Wings, of all people from all shows, was a bitch. More stealth show gossip!

Yeah, more stealth show gossip!

And as to why the creators wanted the unknown Gilpin, I read an interview with one who said they were familiar with her stage work.

The lady who wrote "You'll Never Eat Lunch in This Town Again," talked about Crystal Bernard's love and guilt about women.

Interesting interview here. Daly still looks terrific — Ben Affleck could take some lessons on how to age this gracefully!

It’s touching when Daly talks about his gay father in the interview.

Gilpin actually guest starred on an episode of Wings where she went on a blind date with Brian and gets him in a fight with a biker.

[quote]The lady who wrote "You'll Never Eat Lunch in This Town Again,"

That was no lady -- that was Julia Phillips!

I'm fine r105.....

Some great comments on this thread. I agree that while never a critical darling or cultural touchstone, “Wings” was generally a well-crafted, funny show. Maybe not one for the ages, but one that still provides laughs.

One thing I could never figure out if it was because the character of Alex was poorly-conceived, or if it was because Farrah Forke was a horrible actress who brought nothing to the role besides huge fake breasts, but her addition to the show was a bad idea. Thankfully someone came to their senses and sent her packing.

[quote] I’d never heard that abut Crystal Bernard!

She was always after my snatch

R120 Forke was a bad actress who sucked the air out of the room in every scene she was in.

Want to hear something even worse? They used to make June do ALL the housework on Leave it to Beaver.

I loved the show but could never get around the absurdity of Helen's southern accent.

Recently, I saw a rerun where Lowell's nympho wife was played by the actress who later became the weird doctor with a cane on ER.

Tim Daly has always been so handsome, and Steven Weber was really funny on “Wings”. Really, the whole cast (except for the thankfully short-tenured Farrah Forke) was excellent.

Wings was much more appealing tghan Empty Nest, where everyone was simply annoying.

R109, here ya go. Be prepared to lose an hour or two.

You’re welcome.

Wings had the best theme music of all time:

Shut you filthy whore mouth, R127!

R89 I recall Empty Nest being in the tabloids in the early '90s. Krity McNichol's mental health deteriorated until she finally left the show. Then there was Richard Mulligan's quickie marriage to that porn star. That got some people talking.

R26 The interesting thing about WINGS is that it's only two Emmy nods were for Tyne Daly and Kelsey Grammer (as Frasier) guest-starring in 1992. However, they were nominated in the Lead Actor/Actress in a Comedy Series category, which is usually reserved for regulars. For some reason, the Emmys did not give out Guest Emmys that year.

For those interested, the entire series is on Hulu.

The fat guy was in Patti LuPone's class at Juilliard.

It was the 80’s. People weren’t as open minded back then . You can’t judge the past but you can learn from it and make your future brighter !

So Kelsey Grammer got nominated for Emmys for 3 different shows...as the same character?

There was a funny scene on Frasier where he meets his first wife who played a character for years on TV. She asks Frasier "Do you know what it's like to play the same character for 20 years on television?"

If someone mentioned it above sorry.

Local theater was putting on a production of “Phantom of the Oprah”, and Faye auditioned for the lead.

Brian to Faye: “Good. There are so few good parts for white actresses”

[quote]I recall Empty Nest being in the tabloids in the early '90s. Krity McNichol's mental health deteriorated until she finally left the show. Then there was Richard Mulligan's quickie marriage to that porn star. That got some people talking.

I remember those stories and I also remember tabloid said Kristy was using cocaine to deal with her mental illness.

I watched this as a kid. I thought both leads were super hot.

Also in 1992, Harvey Fierstein (Cheers) and Jay Thomas (Murphy Brown) were both nominated for regular Emmys for their guest-starring roles. The funny thing about Thomas is that he had already won two consecutive Guest Emmys for his work in MB.

Thomas had a recurring role on MB, so he played the same character each time he guested, which was only 9 times during the show's ten-season run.

[quote] It was the 80’s. People weren’t as open minded back then . You can’t judge the past but you can learn from it and make your future brighter !

Wings was on from 1990 - 1997.

For some reason, Joe and Bryan Hackett reminded me of Chris and Martin Kratt, who had a children's animal show on PBS in the '90s.

R4 Maine used to be a part of Massachusetts.

I remember watching this show on weekend evenings as an adolescent....pre-being aware I was gay....and just admiring how beautiful Tim Daly was....and then getting weird sensations when Thomas Haden Church would appear. I don't think this show turned me gay, but it played a role....

Wings was one of those, "I have nothing else to do" type shows. The guys were hot, and I actually liked Crystal Bernard.

Wings was one of those, "I have nothing else to do" type shows. The guys were hot, and I actually liked Crystal Bernard.

r136 The quote went differently, and she didn't play the character much on TV, she had many performances and shows, wrote books etc.

[quote] Do you know what it's like to play the same character for 20 years?

Emphasis on 20 years, and sounds much better without 'on television'.

The episode with Rose Marie as Roy’s insulting mother was hilarious!

Crystal Bernard?

More like Crustal Barnyard.

I don’t know what is more disturbing the fact that someone is binge watching “Wings” or the fact that someone bumped a 3 year old thread about Wings

Tony Shalhoub's Antonio ruined the show. His accent was atrocious and the character made the show unwatchable..

I remember that I did watch this show, but it's just not that memorable. It was made by the same people who did Taxi, Cheers, and Frasier -- three shows that continue to run in syndication. I don't know if Wings runs in syndication.

Cheers is still a great show, but seems to have a lot of misogyny that doesn't hold up. Frasier is also a great show ... lots of gay themed episodes that are funny and not terribly homophobic. The one thing Frasier did then that you could not do now is all the workplace sexual harassment ... it's treated like a joke in the show but would be a big deal now.

steven eckholdt was hot now he is not

Tim Daly was the only reason to watch this show.

I catch a couple of episodes on Pluto weekday mornings. It's hilarious, and everyone on it was great. OP could find homophobia in bathhouse.