New Study Shows Atkins, Asprey Were Right: High Fat, Low Carb Diet Is Much Healthier Than Reverse

Thing is, too much animal protein taxes the kidneys and other organs.

R1 vs Science

That is some vegan nonsense right there r1

Long term, that meat will clog your arteries.

Humans weren't built to eat meat at every meal. Just common sense

Read the article. Still says veggies and fruits are king

I started out a doubter, but I'm convinced now...

Man has been eating grains (and then, bread) for many years now. But we've genetically modified wheat so much that it's actually fucking with a lot of people's digestive systems.

I avoid wheat and gluten whenever possible. I do eat other carbs, but I limit them.

What are "bioactive fruits"?

R7 things like Richard Simmons.

Ok, you earned an additional internet inch on your dick, R8.

Response time was awesome.

What R9 said, R8

That literally made me LOL

R6: Same here. Lost a ton of weight by reducing sugar and white carbs. As a result, my appetite shrinked which led to less calories naturally. That is all it took. I wish I knew this years ago...

what happened to just having a balanced diet?

Some of us are natural fatties on a "balanced" diet. No sugar, lower carbs is what some us need to keep thin and healthy. I end up eating more vegetables, legumes, oils, seeds and nuts doing low carb cause I am not filling up on bread and pasta. It really is a much healthier way to eat for a lot of people. Some of you seem to think low carb means eating eggs and bacon all the time.

My favorites are the dipsticks who forego all carbs, including good ones like whole grains.

I knew a woman who avoided broccoli because it was too carby.

I agree.

Yes, but isn't upsetting people with the info that high fat, low carb can reverse metabolic disorder and eliminate the adipose fat that can contribute to cancer half the fun? Watching people who've been going without eggs go ballistic when you tell them dietary cholesterol is only 15% of total cholesterol? Telling them about the Okinawans who eat fish and have very high cholesterol and very long life spans?

A fried of me lost 20 kg on Atkins, another's sloughed off at least 20. Me, I lost only 15 kg but my sleep and health improved. Ignoring food industry-guided national health and dietary guidelines, and eating the way our grandparents and great-grandparents did helped our physiques.

I am dropping pounds like crazy doing low carb. I do feel guilty buying butter by the truckload.

There's an important distinction between simple carbs and complex carbs. Humans evolved on complex carbs, the occasional mastodon steak, and nuts and berries. Simple carbs weren't plentiful until several hundred years ago.

Carbs are carbs. Complex or not, if you’re fat you shouldn’t be eating any of them.

Not so. They're metabolized very differently.

YOU get a carb, and YOU get a carb, and YOU get a carb, and YOU get a carb . . .

I have not had carbs in over a year.

Not one carb? Really? How do you shit?

We've only been eating grains for about 10,000 yrs. Prior to that and for well over 200,000 yrs, we have been hunter gatherers who ate animal protein. Specifically, organ meats, brain, marrow, and fat. The reason we have the huge brains we have is because of our carnivorous past.

Saturated fats do NOT clog arteries. This is horseshit propaganda with zero scientific basis. Read The Big Fat Surprise. Zero evidence to support the diet-heart hypothesis. Avoid sugar and industrial oils.

So you are saying we should only eat meat?

[quote]Not one carb? Really? How do you shit?

It’s pebbly.

R26, Yes, I am.

Well, I am doing less than 50 grams of carbs a day. i started 16 days ago and have already dropped 9 pounds. And it seems easy. I do not get hungry. I am eating tons of protein and fat.

Exactly @ R24. Can you imagine our early ancestors going on a hunt and then refusing to eat the "fatty" parts of the animal because they were "watching their cholesterol"? Nope. They ate the whole thing. What they did NOT eat was grains, whole or otherwise, and sugar.

I no longer crave sugar, I don’t know why. Not sure if it’s hypoglycemia; I don’t have any hypoglycemic symptoms, light-headed, fatigued, muscle atrophy...

Eat eggs, grass fed tallow, coconut oil, fuck tons of liver, marrow, kidneys, brain, and tongue. Butter the shit out of everything. 50 to 80 percent of your diet should be saturated fat. Do NOT touch anything that contains sugar or industrial oil (canola, soybean, corn, etc). That shit is deadly poison and causes heart disease and cancer.

Oh god, canola?? I just bought some tonight! I gave up dairy, so no butter. Ugh.

How fucking often did people get to eat meat? For millennia, it was by no means daily. That's why the human gut is not short in the way that the feline gut is.

Oh, I bought cold-pressed.

[quote]Bottom Line: Some conventional canola oils are questionable, but you can avoid the dangers and reap the heart-healthy benefits by choosing a quality expeller-pressed or cold-pressed oil that's also organic or non-GMO.

Low carb diets are not high in protein. They are high in fat. Fat is essential for health. It only 'makes' you fat if you eat it with grains and sugar. The typical healthy, low carb "ketogenic" diet has approx. 70% cals from fat, 20% protein, 10% carb.

[quote]Thing is, too much animal protein taxes the kidneys and other organs.

Link please.

Canola is liquid toxic waste. Not fit for human consumption. It's a brand name for rapeseed oil which is highly unstable and toxic. These oils have only been around for barely 100 years and were originally intended for industrial use NOT for human consumption. They hydrogenated that nasty, toxic vegetable oil to make it solid at room temperature. Hydrogenated fat AKA Trans Fat is a known carcinogen and has been banned in Europe and is being phased out of all food products in the US. They were feeding americans poisonous trans fats for 50 years until the evidence became so overwhelming, they had to ban that shit.

You ate meat as often as you hunted it. If you were unlucky one day, you didn't eat. Hence our bodies are adapted for intermittent fasting. It triggers a healing state and you should be incorporating IF or time restricted eating into your regimen.

Note to fruit lovers. Take it easy. Cut way back. In fact, limit yourself to just one serving of berries a day. Our modern fruit is nothing like what we evolved to eat. The sugars are WAY too concentrated. A glass of orange juice has as much sugar as a candy bar.

Low carb diets are loaded with non starchy vegetables. Several more servings per day than the typical low fat diet.

Canola is a big crop where I live. That’s because farmers were tired of the wheat board’s monopoly in wheat and barley sales. They marketed it well. I never buy it. Only buy olive oil, preferably Spanish.

Why not Italian?^

Bye, carbs!

"In a nutshell, a healthy diet based on the PURE results would be rich in fruits, beans, seeds, vegetables, and fats, include dollops of whole grains, and be low in refined carbohydrates and sugars."

The fats the study is talking about are mainly plant fats

People are, of course, clinging to the wrong message from this study.

It's not low carbs that count, it's eating vegetables over meat

Axtually, R24, it was cooking that released enough nutrients and energy in food to support the development of larger brains. BTW, we are the only animal that cooks our food.

[quote]Only buy olive oil, preferably Spanish.

A friend introduced me to avocado oil. Over where I live at least half the olive oils aren't what they claim to be. Avocado oil is especially nice for making mayonnaise with eggs.

r38 The Agriculture museum I went to in July had an exhibit on canola. The text was Marketing Boardspeak.

About the "too much protein" claim. It's fun to say "too much X is bad for you." It makes one sound like an expert as long as one isn't pressed for a number. "Too much Vitamin D3 is toxic." "Oh sweet Lord I just took 401 IU of cholecalciferol will there really be a morning after?" "Too much protein is bad." Sure, if one's also taking in too many calories in general or if the protein source is contaminated by heavy metals or bovine growth hormone. Just like too many smoothies are bad if they have a lot of sugar or too many vegetables if they have toxic pesticide residue.

For someone who lifts weights and is physically active, eating around 1g per pound of body weight is the usual recommendation, or even more.

Findings from a study published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition found that among 2,986 adults, average age 40, those who consumed the most protein (1.8 g per kg per day), whether from animal or plants, had significantly higher muscle mass and strength than those whose diets provided the RDA of 0.8 g per kg.

Older adults are thought to need more protein – about 1.2 g per kg per day – to preserve muscle mass and muscle function.

If you work out regularly, you do need more protein than the RDA. Depending on your sport, a daily intake of 1.2 to 2 g per kg body weight is needed to repair muscle breakdown that occurs during exercise.

Low-calorie dieters also need to rely on extra protein to prevent muscle loss that occurs from dieting. Research has shown that consuming protein in excess of the RDA, combined with resistance training, preserves muscle mass in people following a calorie-restricted diet.

I could go for avocado oil.

R42, it’s a taste preference. I prefer Spanish oils, then Greek, the Italian. Spanish olive oils are thicker and tastier. Greek oils are thin, but mostly more fragrant than Italian oils.

Canola oil gives me the worst gas. Corn itself is a useless vegetable.

Oil, even olive oil, is rarely good for you.

In fact we again took the wrong conclusions from those Mediterranean diet studies. People live longer because of the fruits and vegetables, not the fucking oil

R7 just made my night!!

[quote]401 IU of cholecalciferol

Weak.

100,000 IU

Next year a new study will come out claiming that carbs are good and fats are bad

In conclusion: Nobody Knows Shit

What R53 said.

Agreed, r53, r54. Daddy died of multiple of heart attacks after giving up that dangerous saturated fat real butter for the healthy transfat margarine at his doctors' insistence.

R3 - how is R1 statement vegan nonsense? I agree it's not true. But clearly "too much animal protein" isn't a vegan concept. Clear implication of "too much" is that some is OK.

I started a keto diet during radiation treatments and it really helped me get through. I am staying on it permanently.

r32 Are you the guy who was bitching about Whole Foods' hot bar yesterday? What is wrong with canola oil? I wanted to ask, but lost the thread.

R3 R56 Actually, there is truth to my statement. Too much animal protein does tax certain organs, because it raises the uric acid levels in the body, which can lead to several issues, particularly the most common being kidney stones, gout, and several other issues. And these issues can arise and effect those at healthy weights just as much as those who are overweight, as well as those who have never had a history of these issues. It also depends on what animals you take in, as each has a different acid level. On the flip side, plant-based proteins and fats are often left out of these dialogues, and are rarely as emphasized as animal meat in high protein diet dialogues. As some have said above, that's what the real details of these studies are pointing out - that the proteins and fats are best when from healthy sources, particularly plant sources.

I never said to not eat any meat. Just to be aware of what kind, and how much. The human body doesn't actually need quite as much as we normally consume to get all the health benefits. And for the record, I am not a vegan. I eat meat, and have had great success with high protein, low carb eating plans. I was simply trying to point out that too much animal protein does have consequences on the internal body, even for those already fairly healthy. I know quite a few who have had to augment their high protein diets because it had adverse effects on them.

R45, I don’t get that from this at all. It says vegetables are part of a healthy diet but also goes on to note that:

[quote]Guidelines also tend to stress that if eating some fruits and vegetables is good, more must be better. But among the study participants, those whose diets included three to four servings of fruits and vegetables a day were no more likely to have died as those whose diets included eight or more servings a day.

It sounds like the amount of fruits and vegetables you eat over four servings a day have little to no effect on mortality at least. If your not eating grains, and no more than four servings of vegetables are needed, then all that leaves is fat and protein.

*you’re

[quote]"Oh sweet Lord I just took 401 IU of cholecalciferol will there really be a morning after?"

I've been chuckling about this for an hour.

What then was the “gatherer” part of “hunter gatherer”? Didn’t primitive man hunt and eat meat when they could and then also gather or forage for fruit and vegetative matter. Omnivorous like many mammals.

R53 is so sadly right. The state of nutrition science is pretty sad. There is so much that we just don't know, and there has been far too much willingness to treat hypotheses as fact. The book The Big Fat Surprise shows the irresponsibility of some so-called experts in pushing the diet-heart hypothesis.

[QUOTE] It's fun to say "too much X is bad for you." It makes one sound like an expert as long as one isn't pressed for a number.

Yeah, how come every ignoramus thinks they know all there is to know about this stuff?

Two months after I went on all meat diet, I went for an annual physical and labs. My doctor said whatever you are doing, stop it. Your lab numbers are all wrong.

Like was already said, we know nothing, and the advice is constantly changing.

I eat what I enjoy. We're all going to die anyway, I want to enjoy every aspect of life that I can.

R24 - you're correct that eating grains is a relatively recent addition to our diets-- however, do you also realize that the average lifespan has more than tripled because of diet changes and advances in medicine... Mary!

R67, do you also realize there is a correlation between the obesity epidemic and the career of David Hasselhoff? Clearly we need to stop banning trans fats and start banning Baywatch reruns!

WW r68 lol

70% of cancers and chronic diseases like diabetes and hypertension are due to our meat eating ways. Meat causes inflammation in our bodies and leads to these diseases.

Nutrition science is ina shambles because it is influenced by the lobbying of these large meat producing companies. The government is afraid to say limit your meat intake because then congress won't get its campaign contributions.

We know what makes for a healthier life. Politics prevents large government-funded studies from saying it directly

[QUOTE]how come every ignoramus thinks they know all there is to know about this stuff?

Also, why do so many vegans spread uncited misinformation or just blatantly tell lies?

Well, I am doing the keto diet and down another pound for a total of 11 in 18 days. I just started adding heavy cream to my coffee. The very low carb diet is working.

For all of you posting how much weight you've lost (R72), it would be helpful to know where you started-- your current height and weight.

Someone who is 150 lbs overweight dropping 11 lbs in 18 days is much easier than someone who is 10 lbs overweight doing the same thing.

Okay. I started at 231 and I am a little over six feet tall. The weight gain started a few years back. Five years ago I was at 180.

[quote]70% of cancers and chronic diseases like diabetes and hypertension are due to our meat eating ways.

I thought diabetes was caused by our sugar eating ways.

Everything in moderation.

I find restricted eating times is a great way to maintain and also has other benefits. It's not something most people can do 7 days a week, but if I eat dinner early 3 or 4 days a week and stop eating at 6 or 6:30 and just have coffee, tea or water until 10AM (which is what a lot of people do anyway) I find I sleep much better and generally have more energy.

The rest is just common sense--cut down on junk carbs-- rolls, pretzels, etc. Eat a salad instead of a sandwich for lunch when you can (e..g if you have a sandwich twice a week the world won't end.) Eat a lot of green vegetables with your proteins. Hard boiled eggs and almonds or cashews make great snacks. And be careful with protein bars--they're easy and quick and as a result it's easy to eat them in place of a meal, but that's not good either and many of them (RX bars, for example) have a lot of (natural) sugar from dates, which is still bad for you in excess, and others (Quest) have xylitol which is also not great and gives many people gas and other stomach issues.

[quote]Hard boiled eggs make great white and yellow turd substitutes.

Fixed.

Eat in moderation and diversify. A good rule of thumb is 60 to 70% plants and fruits and the rest can be meat, fish, cheese and eggs, etc. Consume sugar (soda drinks) and starch based carbs (like potatoes, noodles, bread, pastries, rice) as little and seldom as possible. Treat them like a treat rather than a daily or hourly snack.

If you hate plain hard boiled eggs R77, you can dip them in something-- hummus, tomato sauce, guacamole, mustard.

Or you become a "bear" and eat whatever you want.

[Someone needs to rebrand fat chicks like that. Given how many of them there are and all.]

Yeah, right, R79.

Then I'd suggest you spend more time here R80 and less time on DL

I don’t believe in “eat in moderation”. Sugar is bad, dairy is bad, fruit and vegetables divine.

You really are kind of mental, R81. I weigh 140 pounds.

But at 4'2" R83, that's a lot of weight.

Maybe there's a Mini-Bear club you can join

Why would I give a fuck what people ate hundreds or thousands of years ago? They dropped dead at 20, if they were lucky.

No, I'm 5'8". Why are you such an asshole?

Congrats on your weight loss, R72. How have you found the transition to ketosis? Some people seem to find it very hard, others not so much.

What R66 said. While attempting to eat some semblance of a balanced diet with different types of food sources, eat what you enjoy and practice moderation. Most importantly, listen to your body (including stool, urine, eyes, teeth, skin, hair, etc), which is often a good indicator of what is happening internally.

I've switched to eating mostly vegetables with some very high quality meat, eggs and nuts and have never felt better in my life.

I used to be vegetarian, eating a lot of wheat and processed fake meats and never had much energy. The change was partly due to health reasons, there is a chemical common in processed food that I started reacting to. It is also common in rotisserie chickens, so I had to venture into the world of sticking a chicken or roast in a pot in the oven, seemed intimidating, but is actually so easy.

I go to the farmers market once per week, buy veg, meat, eggs, butter and cream, and then spend about 2 hours batch cooking for the week. I save so much on eating out and the extra weight has just fallen off. Eating locally and seasonally is cheap and really good for the environment. It feels good to support local farmers.

Most people who stop eating processed food and go back to home cooking find the weight disappears.

I eat some grains, I often make a big pot of steel cut oats with chopped fruit for the week (great with almond butter drizzled on top) or make carrot cake baked organic oats with shredded zucchini, carrots, apples and raisins (pineapple turns it into a Morning Glory treat). Pecans and cinnamon are great on top, I often use coconut milk (canned) for healthy fat. Grab and go. Organic is important for oats, which can have very high levels of glyphosate.

You don't want to lose weight too fast, not good for the skin, adding avocado and more nuts can help.

You will be stunned at how little recycling you have after cutting out processed food. Our great grandparents were not fat, if you eat like them, you won't be, either. All these chemicals, preservatives and artificial flavors, you don't need them!

Not necessarily, R85. Life expectancy has gone way up, but he human lifespan hasn't changed too much. The critical period is childhood and early teens, and hundreds of years ago if people made it to age 20, they had a decent shot of reaching at least middle age. The reason life expectancy has gone up is because more people make it out of childhood thanks to better medicine and vaccines.

Of course, your chances of getting mauled by a predator while hunting/gathering for a meal were a lot higher thousands of years ago.

Set yourself up for success, batch cook or try what this woman did, an Insta Pot. She lost a lot of weight and kept it off by switching to home cooked food, mainly veg and some protein. She was cooking daily for several people, so I could see an Insta Pot being very convenient.

r57 Congrats on learning about the keto diet on or before starting your cancer treatments. You'll love reading [italic]The Metabolic Approach to Cancer[/italic] by Dr. Nasha Winters, if you haven't.

Good for you R57. Happy you’re still with us and for many, many more years to come.

Avoid processed food, even from the health food store.

Eat mostly plants and some high quality nuts, eggs and animal protein. Your health and wallet will thank you.

I love cashews but they’re so high in carb.

r94 I have a pet hypothesis that excitotoxins, contaminants in processed food, and dietary damage to the brain (denying it adequate fats and nutrients) leads to senior and obese Americans voting the way they do.

Eggs and butter are also good for you.

Big Pharma pushed back hard when Tom Brady's mostly plants with organic, local animal protein anti-inflammatory diet was in the news. If they can't get you on insulin, they will try for SSRIs.

"casting doubt on the wisdom of eating lots of carbs"

I've never seen anyone advocating eating lots of carbs

R8, I Lol'ed. Too bad we don't have Wit and Wisdonm on the side of DO now. Your comment was gold.

Depends on the quality, R97.

Eggs from chickens fed GMO soy and corn doused in glyphosate are not the same as eggs from pasture raised chickens. Butter from grass fed cows is different than cows raised on the same GMO, glyphosate protocol.

Support your local farmer's market. Your taste buds and health and wallet will all thank you.

I can easily buy 2 big bags of veg for the week for the cost of ordering out one pizza.

The quality of the food and the chemicals added matter quite a bit.

Support your local farmers. Many markets operate year round. Think about where you spend your $ and the impact on your health. You are what you eat also applies to beef, chicks, pork and fish we consume.

.........

It works for me. Done right, it’s perfectly healthy. Back when Atkins was popular, my SILs did it (they love a good fad diet; they’ve done them all), I couldn’t understand the “no vegetables” part. But you can eat tons of vegetables on the LCHF diet. General rule of thumb is to not eat anything that grows underground.

Anyway, it works for me. Eliminated belly fat and spare tire, which is the “dangerous” fat WRT heart disease. And the cravings for carbs go away. It’s worth it.

r104 LCHF worked for me too. The only downsides of LCHF for me were not supplementing with sufficient minerals at the induction (muscle cramps), the revved-up fat metabolism leading to temporary body odor from ketones being released, and my cousin, who invited me to the memorial service for her mom, asking our cousin whom he brought, I had lost that much weight. After the service she insisted on knowing how I did it, so she and her family could slim down too.

[quote]General rule of thumb is to not eat anything that grows underground.

What about corn?

I’ve started restricting my eating time to two hours a day after seeing Micheal Mosley’s film about fasting and it’s beneficial effects on aging and hormones. I only ate between 5 and 7 since the beginning of the year on a standard diet with grains/starches and my weight hovered around 155. On November 1, I quit smoking and started the Keto diet and this morning I weighed 141 pounds. I’m 5’9” and am the size I was in high school. I haven’t had any blood work done but my blood pressure is good and my energy level is great. It’s hard to eat enough fat so I’m probably eating more protein than I should.

This feels like the boylimia thread.

Excitotoxins are in dressings, "health foods" and processed chicken, from Popeyes to the Costco rotisserie bird. Know what you are eating. Eliminate processed food and you will be amazed at the changes in your health, including weight. Eat high quality, home cooked food. Go on a fab vaycay with all the $$$ you save.

Those "health foods" may be making you sick...Big Pharma wants you eating processed food, whether the Hamburger Helper plan or the vegan one full of gmo fake food.

Weight will not be an issue, nor will cravings, if you eat whole, unprocessed plants with some high quality animal protein. Put down the "bars" full of GMOs and glyphosate and make the quality of your food a primary consideration.

Fake food causes real health problems - do you know how that soy protein isolate is created? Is it GMO? Frankenfood is bad no matter the health marketing. Cut out fake food and the pounds will melt away.

The only thing that worked for me was cutting out sugar. I lost 40lbs. I weighed 170. I’ve cut out dairy and hoping lose another 40.

Hydrolyzed vegetable protein (HVP) is produced by boiling foods such as soy, corn, or wheat in hydrochloric acid and then neutralizing the solution with sodium hydroxide. The acid breaks down the protein in vegetables into their component amino acids.

One of the amino acids in the dark-coloured liquid that's left is glutamic acid. Consumers are more familiar with glutamic acid in the form of its sodium salt — monosodium glutamate, or MSG.

A similar product — derived from dairy products — is hydrolyzed whey protein.

----------------------------- Still seem like a health food?!

R67, if you are referring to average lifespan increasing, that's a function of a dramatic decrease in infants mortality rates. Paleolithic humans had very high infant mortality which dragged down the average. The people who survived into adulthood and weren't victims of animal or human violence lived lifespans similar to Neolithic humans. Their bones and teeth were far stronger and healthier than Neolithic humans.

Once you look at the remains of Neolithic humans in agrarian societies, you see they were had stunted growth and terrible teeth. Egyptian mummy remains show this in spades.

A few books I recommend: Why We Get Fat; The Big Fat Surprise; Real Food, Fake Food; and Sapiens.

The Big Fat Surprise is a real eye opener about the disturbingly flawed "scientific research" that underpins nutrition related public policy.

*infant

R112, I hope cutting out sugar helps your math and compositional skills, too.

Good luck!

R76, so "everything in moderation"? Does that include crack, meth, and heroin? Cigarettes in moderation?

R70, link to peer reviewed study please?

Prior generations were not morbidly obese, eat like them and excess weight falls off. Don't eat processed food, even from Whole Foods. Eat good quality, whole foods and your cravings will disappear.

[quote]I hope cutting out sugar helps your math and compositional skills, too. Good luck!

And, the carbs you stuff into your face have clouded your ability to sense sarcasm. Blocked.

After my first few days of low carbs I started peeing nonstop. It was my first clue that I was in ketosis. Anyone else experience this?

I peed frequently, like six - nine times a day, but that was water weight loss, not necessarily ketosis. I never bothered with ketone strips to test if I was in ketosis: the body odor was hint enough.

What is ketosis?

It's still calories in and calories out that is going to keep the weight off and take it off.

Low carb diets are popular because they are so easy to maintain.

Thank Christ. I love butter. I'd eat it anyway, but at least now I feel better about it.

Dark chocolate, red wine and butter! S'all good.

Yes, a low carb diet seems easy to maintain. I haven't been hungry on it. I am finding it hard to get enough fat. This diet is very, very high in it.

Avocados, R126.

Another convert here. I also reduced sugar and carbs. The first 3 days were hell. But then I felt amazing and the weight fucking flew off. I lost 20lbs in 6 weeks. 35 altogether.

I’m not as strict now but I stick to it 80% of the time. My energy levels are through the roof. It’s mind blowing (I was a bloated low energy mess for years).

R89, sounds great... except the coconut milk for 'healthy' fat. Many many doctors are now saying to avoid the coconut-- it is all saturated fat, so use in moderation-- google it tons of stories out there!

Is it necessary to do both low carbs and high fat? What about keeping both low?

Sugar, high fructose corn syrup, trans fat and overeating make people fat. The end.

R130, if more than 40% of your calories come from protein it causes lethargy and brain fog in most people. It’s also bad for your kidneys.

I forgot to add, protein is the only macronutrient left if you go low card and low fat.

Link R132.

Most of your food should still be plants, esp a variety of leafy greens.

But the Keto Diet seems to be about fewer plants too. This is where I get confused. Prior to starting the Keto diet I was eating mostly plant based.

Just get rid of carbs and dairy. Eat plants and fruit (only berries and oranges, no grapes or bananas-pure sugar).

Thanks, R129. I figure a can or 2 a month won't kill me. A lot of fake milks are full of other troubling chemicals, like carageen, I avoid them.

The best thing about the baked oats is no sugar or sweetener is needed if you throw in an apple and the texture is like bread pudding, fab to eat for a week once or twice month. You can fit in a LOT of zucchini and carrots, great way to start the day, with a few pasture raised eggs holding it together you don't get hungry for hours. My allergist recommended an apple a day (varied) as good for asthma. Thailand just pulled Quaker Oats off the shelves due to glyphosate, really go organic there.

The quality of the food you eat really matters too.

My spouse is not overweight, works out 3x per week and doesn't smoke or drink. Yet he had a heart attack in his earlyn40s. His cardiologist says to only eat complex carbs but also limit saturated fat. Unsaturated fat is ok in moderation. Thoughts?

Thoughts, R140?

Listen to the cardiologist who saw your husband through a heart attack and don't take advice from the internet.

Sorry, R140. Hope he’s okay now. Sometimes it’s a defect or maybe genectics too. What was his diet like before?

R140 here and we follow the cardiologist's advice. Pre heart attack his diet wasn't drastically different, perhaps ate more red meat (but only 2x per month) but now only has it once per year. I was seeking input but would of course check it with the cardiologist first.

Did he carbs with the red meat? Dairy?

R124, not true. Read Why We Get Fat.

It's not rocket science

Fats make you feel full so you eat less overall.

I'd also recommend limiting the hours you eat. Try only eating between 10am and 6pm. If nothing else, you will sleep much better having not eaten for a few hours before you go to sleep.

R140, how much sugar does he eat?

FYI, the average med student only gets about 7 hours of nutrition education. This per Dr Andrew Weil who finds the state of nutrition education for MDs appalling. Having an MD does NOT make you a nutrition expert in any way. Most of the nutrition education they receive is rehashed and now discredited Ancel Keyes horseshit, fake results from "Mediterranean Diet studies, and studies that were bankrolled by Procter and Gamble, Kraft, Nabisco, etc.

R140 here again. He's lactose intolerant so dairy is low fat Greek yogurt without sugar 3x per week with Lactaid. Cheese is the vegan variety only occssionally. No butter; use Smart Balance instead. Sugar is very limited: no soda or sweets, only black coffee.

I was reading about Bob Harper's heart attack at age 51. My husband also had the widow maker and had 1 stent instead of 2. Genetics are obviously to blame.

R140, is there heart disease in his family? You can only fight genetics so far, but diet/exercise can make a huge difference in delaying or lessening the effects of heart disease, cancer, diabetes, etc.

For the longest time, comedians had a field day making fun of Jim Fixx, the runner who died of a heart attack in his 50s. But what they overlooked was the whole reason he started jogging and had quit smoking was because his father had died young after multiple heart attacks and he himself had an enlarged heart. He most likely prolonged his own life by a decade or more.

[quote]dairy is low fat Greek yogurt without sugar 3x per week with Lactaid. Cheese is the vegan variety

Low fat is so high in sugar. Vegan cheese is soy based, no? Soy is not good for men.

R140 again; there is heart disease on his maternal great aunts and uncles. He's taking meds prescribed by his cardiologist for blood pressure, blood thinning and cholesterol. We're trying to eat the right way (low/no sugar or dairy, no red meat, complex carbs in moderation) but it could always be improved with more vegetables and fruit. Obviously people eating lots of butter and other saturated fat have the genetic predisposition to handle it. My husband does not.

[quote]We're trying to eat the right way (low/no sugar or dairy, no red meat, complex carbs in moderation

Good for you, you’re both on the right path. I would cut out the complex carbs, just do fruit and vegetables and lean meats and eggs (if you like eggs). That’s it. Boring, I know.

No butter too. Use Olive oil. Avocado oil.

[quote]would cut out the complex carbs

And, by this I mean no oatmeal, no “healthy” breads...nothing like that. Just fruit and vegetables.

No butter? What’s wrong with butter? It’s a staple of the ketogenic diet.

It’s dairy.

My thought is that cardiologists do not have a consensus on your husband's cardiologist's advice, r140. Look at UK cardiologist Dr Aseem Malhotra's website, and his advice about saturated fat. Also Dr. William Davis, a US cardiologist, has his own opinion.

My guess, prior to reading r151, was that heart disease is a genetic link, to have an attack in one's early 40s. With genes like that I wonder if diet makes much of a difference.

No lactaid. No juice. Just water.

R156, where is this no dairy coming from? I don’t know how you get enough saturated fat to do a ketogenic diet without things like butter, heavy cream, sour cream, etc. Are we talking about the same thing?

Check this out R159.

Datalounge has become a site that has drastically improved my eating habits. Even my bathing habits: no loofas.

Search for Dr Robert Lustig videos on YouTube. He's an endocrinologist at UCSF.

Varied plant based diet is the way to go, R151. Cut out processed foods, the chemicals cause inflammation which has a very strong link to heart disease. Yogurt is easy to make. Good olive oil is better than Smart Balance. High quality whole food, including wild caught salmon, will leave you feeling great. Read up on anti-inflammatory diet recommendations.

Thanks for the input from R140. We love wild caught salmon! It's frustrating that even amongst cardiologists there's conflicting advice but we will stick with what ours tells us. Perhaps he can recommend a heart healthy cookbook.

Some good advice here

R151, avoid carageen, an ingredient in many "health" foods and dairy substitutes. There is a strong link to inflammation, a no-no for all but esp dangerous re heart disease.

A primarily organic plant based diet contains vitamins and minerals and healthy chemical compounds not found in butter and meat.

Avoid soy and all GMO foods. They were modified to withstand up to 5x the application of glyphosate. The quality of your food is paramount.

I find the two most useless pieces of advice when it comes to diets are "all things in moderation" and "calories in/calories out." Moderation isn't measurable. For example what is a moderate daily intake of water is not a moderate daily intake of bourbon. I'm not sure anyone would go on the record as to a moderate intake of Marlboro Lights. If they do let me know - I'll start smoking again.

Calories in/calories out ignores the ignores the basic fact that the human body is a system. Different functions interacting with each other. Are the proponents of this honestly suggesting a diet of olive oil only is the way to go as long as you keep the calorie intake inline?

R140 your cardiologist may well be doing a great job. My experience, in particular with my family and like many gay men my age with HIV/AIDS patients, is to use all health care professionals. As mentioned above your cardiologist may or may not have adequate training in nutrition science but most important does he/she have time? Get a referral to a nutritionist. They will spend valuable time with you and may well be running very helpful support groups.

For example my fathers cardiologist recommended he have chicken and fish instead of beef. Not bad advice, except what he and my mother did was resort to chicken and fish from the deli counter. Already prepared. Loaded with sodium. A nutritionist would go into more detail. I'm sure the cardiologist didn't have this in mind. But honestly he can spend time with my parents mapping out a weekly menu and grocery list.

Same is true with medication. If you are taking medication on a regular basis ask for a referral to a PharmD.

I'm all for giving up processed food. Pasta (white or whole wheat) is a processed food. Bread. Almost any sliced meat you get from a deli counter.

No carbs.

No sugar.

No protein.

No food.

Man can't live by butter alone. Most of your diet should be organic plants.

Lots of things sold as healthy are a scam.

Eat whole, home cooked food. Your health will thank you.

Preach, R167!

I'm starting to get sick of the phrase "plant-based diet" too. It's almost as generic as "moderation."

I Agree, fuck off with your "plant based diet". What are you eating for breakfast? a salad?

Agree with R167. "Moderation" is meaningless. If you're used to downing a bag of potato chips without a second thought, half a bag is "moderation."

If you don't develop good eating habits super young, you're not going to suddenly know what to do. Many people are struggling to undo the harm of eating processed crap from a young age.

I’m relieved I was raised by a health-obsessed parent.

.......

R140, just nosy here. That is so young for a heart attack. Is there a family history? Is there an unusual risk factor, like hard-to-control cholesterol? Was his diet heavy on meat?

I love the comment from the guy that weighs the same as in high school.

Good for you, but I'll bet your face looks like a shrunken zombie.

Like Zsa said, at someone point you have to choose the face or the ass.

And your balls are probably hanging to you knees.

R176 = Fatsplaining

He answered that, R175.

To the person (or persons) doing Keto -- what do you eat at meals on a typical day?

I am doing keto. I started 17 days ago and down from 231 to 220. The way i have been peeing I suspect a lot of it is water weight. A small back story is that I weighed about 50 pounds less a few years back. I gained the weight when I quit smoking. Meals are like this. For breakfast it is an omelette made with three eggs with celery and opinions cooked in olive oil. Then a bowl of Kirkland's mixed three berries. Lunch is a large slice of roast turkey, one hard boiled egg and an avocado. Dinner is a large plate of steamed vegetables flavored with butter. During the day I had a snack of a handful of almonds and some high fat yogurt with a few berries thrown in. The deal is too eat fat with every meal. So far it has been an easy diet to follow but I am very determined being I came back from Paris recently I had put on another 10 pounds. I haven't felt hungry or deprived on this diet.

[quote] and opinions cooked in olive oil

Have you tried tossing some with a raw salad of remarks, comments and conjectures? I've read one should try for a rainbow of ideas to get as many nutrients as possible.

I think the best diet is the blue zone diet. Which really stays away from a lot of animal protein, only a couple of times a week. Then again, I don't want to live until 110.

That sounds more like a Paleo diet than keto, R180.

R182 here, sorry I meant a couple of times a month.

Yeah, keto is at least 70% fat, 25% protein and less than 30 grams of net carbs. Counting macronutrients is a heavy part of keto. I didn't do that consistently, so I tell people I kept my weight off, eliminated my metabolic disorder symptoms and reduced my triglycerides with LCHF. I'd go on a keto diet if I were in treatment for cancer. I know keto works, but if I found a lazier approach that does what I want it to, I'm more likely to stay with the lazier approach.

There’s a ketogenic diet and then there’s putting your body into the state of ketosis. You don’t need keto to get into ketosis, especially if you’re carrying lots of bodyfat. But the more you slim down, the harder it gets to stay in ketosis and that’s when you’ll have to cut carbs more drastically and shift to a ketogenic diet if you want to continue seeing results.

Frankly if your body isn’t good with dairy then you should probably stay away from a ketogenic diet altogether.

I've never understood these tedious diets. Just eat all the good stuff you want, and try to eat the bad stuff in moderation. Just don't deprive yourself. Food shouldn't be stressful.

If you do this and exercise, you'll be in good shape.

Agree R187. These diets will kill your soul but then again, I am fortunate not to have a weight problem

R71 where’s your proof dipshit.

not so fast...

[quote] I'm starting to get sick of the phrase "plant-based diet" too. It's almost as generic as "moderation."

I agree R170. For some reason we need to give diets a name. Usually they aren't very helpful. "Plant based" certainly does bring to mind salads.

As far as breakfast is concerned - steel cut oatmeal and fruit. I like tofu scramble. The thing about tofu is that it is just about flavor free. So pick your favorite combination of spices and the vegetables you might put an omelet. Depending of your fear of fat prepare with a little vegetable stock or oil. It's good. Benefit of both steel cut oatmeal and tofu scramble is that they freeze really well. Take a few minutes in microwave in the morning.

R190 - Did you read OP's link? You're posting information about the same observational study at OP did.

Why rely on one observational study when there are many studies using controlled experiments? Atkins has been dead for years, Asprey is an entrepreneur. A good way to see how much evidence supports a low-carb, high-fat diet is to read the bibliographies of recent books published by doctors like Michael and Mary Dan Eads, Cate Shanahan, Nasha Winters and William Davis. The living physicians have more recent citations available. I went LCHF before learning of Atkins and Asprey.

Also, the "High Fat" in the headline is misguiding -- highly refined omega-6 oils from plants aren't healthful, and the low-processed omega-6 plant oils (virgin-pressed olives, walnuts, avocados) aren't metabolized in the same way as are the omega-3 animal fats found in wild-caught Alaskan salmon and the omega-3 oil from flax seed. Here's an abstract of a Journal of Clinical Medicine article published in 2016.

[bold]Potential Benefits of Omega-3 Fatty Acids in Non-Melanoma Skin Cancer.[/bold]

Considerable circumstantial evidence has accrued from both experimental animal and human clinical studies that support a role for omega-3 fatty acids (FA) in the prevention of non-melanoma skin cancer (NMSC). Direct evidence from animal studies has shown that omega-3 FA inhibit ultraviolet radiation (UVR) induced carcinogenic expression. In contrast, increasing levels of dietary omega-6 FA increase UVR carcinogenic expression, with respect to a shorter tumor latent period and increased tumor multiplicity. Both omega-6 and omega-3 FA are essential FA, necessary for normal growth and maintenance of health and although these two classes of FA exhibit only minor structural differences, these differences cause them to act significantly differently in the body. Omega-6 and omega-3 FA, metabolized through the lipoxygenase (LOX) and cyclooxygenase (COX) pathways, lead to differential metabolites that are influential in inflammatory and immune responses involved in carcinogenesis. Clinical studies have shown that omega-3 FA ingestion protects against UVR-induced genotoxicity, raises the UVR-mediated erythema threshold, reduces the level of pro-inflammatory and immunosuppressive prostaglandin E2 (PGE₂) in UVR-irradiated human skin, and appears to protect human skin from UVR-induced immune-suppression. Thus, there is considerable evidence that omega-3 FA supplementation might be beneficial in reducing the occurrence of NMSC, especially in those individuals who are at highest risk.

Apple's are plant based.

Eating whole, high quality food, primarily veg and fruit is not a "diet" but a way to optimize your health and feel great. Veg and fruit (organic if possible) have phytochemicals that fight inflammation. Inflammation has been linked to heat disease, obesity, Parkinson's and even hair loss. Eat high quality, low on the food chain. Your wallet, health and waistline will thank you.

The chemicals added to processed foods, from herbicides to insecticides to preservatives to criticism will make you sick and fat and possibly worse.

excitotoxins, not criticism, auto correct

Too much soy is not good for men.

Humblebrag.

[quote] ...but I am very determined being I came back from Paris recently I had put on another 10 pounds.

R191 yes I did. But my link is from pcrm and the org link is from pbs. And “plant based” is what people say who are in it for medical issues rather than for the animals. People generally say “plant based” so they don’t have to put up with all the assholes like r71. Easier for people to understand when talking to them or at restaurants if you say “vegan” rather than “plant based”.

Eating plans from Weight Watchers to Volumetrics to Paleo to common sense put the focus on veg and fruit. PLANT BASED.

Quality matters as does eating whole, not processed foods. Food can be medicinal - it's the best way to lower inflammation and decrease health risks. Additives of all sorts may make you fat, bald, or prematurely dead. Vets are onto this, their go to for a pet with health issues is home cooked organic food. We can all benefit.

Of course none of this matters if your thyroid or your hormones are fucked up and that’s part of the reason why you’re carrying so much weight. In fact any number of these diets could exacerbate the problem and make it worse—someone suffering from hypothyroidism, for example, shouldn’t be cutting carbs too low.

IME, being vegan is more a philosophy than a commitment to healthy eating. I know some who subsist on beer, potato chips and GMO filled fake meats.

Careful with subbing broth for fat, broth, stock, bullion, canned soup, etc are very high in excitotoxins.

Eat high volume high quality food and you won't be hungry. Chemicals in processed foods drive hunger as does the poor nutritional profile. Meat and egg eaters, go for pasture raised, healthier nutrition profile and amazing taste!

[quote] Careful with subbing broth for fat, broth, stock, bullion, canned soup, etc are very high in excitotoxins.

Commercial stock or broth you mean. Homemade stock made from the bones of non-factory-raised animals has a lot of amino acids, not so much excitotoxins.

Exactly, R200, bone broth is great for joints too.

I'm the poster who started reacting to descriptions and I had to change my eating. I couldn't rotisserie chicken and was leery about cooking one. So easy! Stick in a pot in the oven. I froze bones but avoided homemade stock, put in a pot, add water, easy peasy. I eat paleoish with emphasis on veg. Weight has melted off. I do love baked oats packed with fruit and veg, steel cut oats with fruit and nuts, or overnight oats, avoid toothpaste and get organic.

Another great breakfast is pumpkin custard using 6 pasture raised eggs, grass fed or coconut milk and a tiny bit of maple syrup, along with vanilla and spices. Make ahead for the week.

This is the best diet aid ever

Followed by cake on a toilet on live tv...

It's really important to find healthy food you enjoy and set aside 2 hours a week to do food prep and batch cook. There are so many recipes online, video tutorials, etc. You really will feel better and you will lose your taste for processed food pretty quickly. The $ savings is substantial and fun to repurpose. We all deserve better than to enrich Big Pharma for st.rooms caused by the chemicals in the food we eat.

When people ate whole foods, cooked at home, they were not fat and physical and mental health problems were not profitable industries.

Share your tips for making bone broth, pretty pls? Do you use the stove or oven?

I'm not home for long stretches of time on weekends and was thinking of getting an Instant Pot in part to make bone broth. Hear you can go from bones in the freezer to broth pretty quickly.

1 cup organic chicken chicken broth

2 scoops Bulleproof Collagen Protein Powder

Himalayan sea salt, fresh ground pepper and fresh chopped dill to taste.

Combine all ingredient in microwave-safe mug

Zap on high for 80 seconds

Stir and let cool for 30 seconds

Donezo!

[QUOTE]It's really important to find healthy food you enjoy and set aside 2 hours a week to do food prep and batch cook.

Who the hell has the time for all that?

You cook once, not multiple times during the week. You can do other stuff while the food is cooking. The prep for 18 meals is around 30 min, then the food is in the oven or whatever. I don't like to take super long breaks at work, so bringing food a lot saves time and money and is healthier. I lost a lot of weight without really trying. Seems like a good investment of minimal time to me.

Sharing bone stock preparation and a sequence of recipes, at the request of r205

I haven't tried it yet, but I have read a slow cooker can produce bone stock. I prepare bone stock in a stock pot, over a stove, as follows:

[bold]Bone stock[/bold]

1. Stock will taste richer if the bones are roasted first. You can either roast a whole chicken, use a rotisserie roast from a supermarket, or buy a whole chicken or chicken backs from an Asian market. When I plan for beef stock I buy beef bones from an Asian market.

2. Chop up three peeled carrots, three washed celery sticks, and two medium-size (or 1 large) onions

3. Add enough filtered or distilled water to cover the bones in a pot or slow cooker. The water should leave only 1.5" space from the top. For each pound of bones used add 2 tablespoons of vinegar (I use Bragg's Organic Apple Cider Vinegar) to the bones and water. Add the chopped carrots celery and onion(s) to the pot or slow cooker. Let sit for 30 minutes to an hour.

4. If using a slow cooker, set it for four hours, and cover. If using a stove, set the burner heat to High so the water can roll to a boil. Once it's boiling, skim any scum from the top, reduce to a slow simmer (on my gas range I have the burner setting around 3-4), cover, and leave it alone for at least 8 hours and up to 48 hours. The longer you leave the stock, the higher concentration of amino acids it will have.

The slow cooker will enter a keep warm setting once it's done cooking, so morning is a good time to prep the broth.

In the last ten minutes, put in a few sprigs of parsley to cook for 10 minutes. For a slow cooker, an option is to put in some dulse, a seaweed, to add iodine to the broth. If I make beef broth, I save the bones for a dog I'm friendly to; otherwise I put out all the bones and vegetables for the corvids.

Put in freezer-safe food storage containers and label.

[bold]Bone Stock Bloody Mary[/bold]

1.5 oz Vodka

2.5 oz Beef stock

Juice of 1 lemon wedge

2 dashes Worcestershire sauce

2 dashes Tabasco sauce

Freshly ground pepper

Shake the vodka, stock, lemon juice, Worcestershire sauce, and Tabasco sauce. with ice, then strain into an oldfashioned glass full of fresh ice. Garnish into a full twist of fresh black pepper.

[bold]Chicken Stock Pick-Me-Up[/bold]

third in a series of stock recipes for r205

1 cup homemade chicken stock

1/4 tsp ground gingre

1/4 tsp sea salt

1 Tbsp molasses

1 Tbsp coconut oil

1/4 tsp tumeric

Combine the turmeric, salt, ginger, molasses, and coconut oil in a mug. In a small saucepan, bring the broth to a boil and pour it into the mug. Stir to mix well and dissolve the seasonings and serve.

R4, sorry but science trumps YOUR "common sense."

I am sure having a hard time affording the organic food at the grocery store. Any one want to sponsor an old guy?

Little Debbie snack cakes are plant-based.

Aldes and Trader Joe's are cheaper, as is farmers market before close.

Spend $ on Big Pharma or on quality food - your choice.

Please tell me your weekly grocery bill if you are buying only organic.

R13, the hysteria over GMOs and the obsession with organic is utter crap.

Keto works. It's easy. If anyone is interested in having more energy, better sleep and better sex, mental clarity and a better body, get into keto and intermittent fasting. Keto.reddit.com is a great place to start. Also, find the BBC Horizons episode about fasting--it'll change your life

Don't listen to the low energy vegans with moobs. Don't be a soy boy, be a man.

Also, an Instant Pot will give you a quick, tasty bone broth.

Oh, and most people lose 10 pounds of water weight in their first week of keto.

Typically around $50 per week, that is veg, fruit, meat and eggs at a market. Once a month or so I go to TJ for oats, coffee, paper goods. That is a fraction of what I used to spend ordering out , not even counting lunches.

........

20 days on keto and I went from 231 to 219. I doubt keto is the only diet that can do that but it sure seems to be working for me. Just kill those carbs guys!

[quote] This is the best diet aid ever

Ee-yikes. If I wasn't already gay, that would have done the trick.

r220 Good stuff! I bet you don't feel deprived at all and you don't have cravings either.

I was 220 at the beginning of the year. Yesterday I was down to 186. Keto is the real deal, folks!

Eating all that butter at first was spooky after being told for years not to eat it but I swallow it by the stick now or almost. It has been a real easy diet to follow and I don't feel deprived.

I inserted my penis into a jelly doughnut and promptly gained 11.5 pounds

I eat mascarpone the way I used to eat frosting out of the can.

That wasn't a humblebrag r195, that is your own defensiveness speaking.

I just spread a tablespoon of mayonnaise over a big slice of turkey and called it lunch. I had forgotten what mayonnaise tasted like.

Check the ingredients of that mayonnaise, R228. If it has canola oil, then you're in deep shit.

I tossed the Canola.

My mayonnaise was made from avocado oil. It is 8 bucks a bottle so I will not be drinking it.

The longest lives societies in the world eat carbs: Okinawa, Japan and Sardinia, Italy. And they don't fucking eat sticks of butter.

What they don't eat are processed foods and junk and sugary crap. They eat meat, fish, dairy, fruit, vegetables, animal fats, beans, olive oil.

Have at it then R232. Enjoy!

I lost weight n ket but started craving pizza and pasta. There are really no good alternatives to those.

The people of Sardinia and Okinawa don't live so long because of their diet. It is all about their chain smoking.

I switched to a plant based diet. Dropping a pound a week counting calories. Started last June and I am in the mid 180s. Down from 220.

Just like R223, Mr Keto, in half the time

I about to eat pizza right now. Fuck this.

R236 do you practice intermittent fasting at all?

Advice from the Time-Traveling Dietician:

For those not using canola oil, what do you use for baking and roasting?

I'm considering using extra virgin olive oil for baking and roasting but only at 350 degrees because of its smoke point.

These days I cook with olive oil, coconut oil and duck fat. Leaf lard is hard to find but it's better than hydrogenated lard.

The good thing about eating healthy and avoiding most dairy and grains is that in time your body becomes used to it and stops craving those things to the point where your stomach is definitely unhappy about receiving a slice of pizza.

R240 - I use olive oil or ghee. I have to be honest I'm not a very sophisticated cook - so the idea of smoking point is meaningless to me.

Well, one month and two days and I am down form 231 to 216 pounds and not suffering at all. I am doing the Keto diet. It sure seems to work.

r240 for baking, as a substitute for shortening I use coconut oil. For roasting I use olive oil.

I made it down to 178.8!

R246-At whatweight fif you start?W

R-246 What was your starting weight?

I was at 282 pounds at one point. I started running and Weight Watchers pre-Oprah to do something about it, but the weight didn't come off until I gave up soda. Low-carbers were and are right. The sugar industry ought to be treated like the tobacco industry.

I've been doing keto for a little over a week.

Counting calories works every time.

I feel like there's no one diet that works for everyone. Some people are okay with moderate-high carb intake because they know how to self-regulate and probably have healthy metabolisms. For others (me), portion control, cravings, and insulin resistance make a low carb diet ideal. I can't even have an apple without going full hypoglycemic. And I'm a young woman on the lower end of a healthy BMI. Some of my friends are vegans who can maintain a low weight while eating whole grain bread, beans, granola, veggie chips, rice, etc. All of which are foods that would cause weight gain for me, even in small quantities. Some of our bodies simply be trippin'.

R252 - how does eating an apple make you hypoglycemic?

[quote] Counting calories works every time.

Carbs matter more. Imagine 2000 calories of steak vs. 2000 calories of ice cream. They will not have the same carb count, macronutrients, or micronutrients, thus they will react differently when the body consumes them.

There is a different insulin response too.

The pushing of eating more and more carbs, eating more processed food and eating quite frequently coincides with a rise in obesity.

A low carb diet, home cooked food and intermittent fasting, say, not eating after 7, is a weight loss and stabilizing diet for many. It's also how most people used to eat.

R73...I started at 183 and I am now at 152. I eliminated carbs and sugar and feel better than I ever have.

I am down 16 pounds in around 5 weeks doing a LCHP diet. It works with little effort.

R256 Do you use Xylitol or anything like that?

What are you eating in a day?

[quote] A low carb diet, home cooked food and intermittent fasting, say, not eating after 7, is a weight loss and stabilizing diet for many. It's also how most people used to eat.

R255 what is a stabilizing diet? Why does it work for many, not all? What people used to eat this way and when?

R256 you eliminated "carbs and sugar?" You must know sugar is a carb. Plus if you eliminated carbs what are you eating? If you eat green beans, spinach or carrots you are having some carbs. Are you just eating steak and butter?

Whole grains are so, so good for your health, especially heart health and cancer prevention. Fiber removes toxins from the body. The diets of most old societies are built around certain grains. Please don't cut out grains, just use some restraint.

Vegetables and fruit and nuts all have fiber.

More and more evidence is coming out against canola oil, it causes weight gain and is bad for the brain - avoid processed food! Canola is typically GMO, and the manufacturing process can turn it into a trans fat. Hopefully WF will phase it out. Food meant to sit on shelves for years is harmful to humans!

R261, are you aware of dry harvesting and the fact that grains - oats, wheat, etc, in US are saturated with glyphosate to allow the grain to be harvested in a dry state? An Asian country just pulled all Quaker oats off the shelf claiming the high levels of Roundup render it unfit for human consumption.

Organic veg, fruit, nuts & seeds provide plenty of fiber and their vitamins and minerals do not come from fortification that is of dubious value.

[quote]Canola is typically GMO, and the manufacturing process can turn it into a trans fat.

Lots of things at Whole Foods are made with "non-GMO canola oil." It's still inferior to animal fats, butter, ghee, coconut oil, and avocado oil. Heck, you're better off using cannabutter.

Download the Vora app. Allows you to track your fasting. I shoot for no more than a 9 hour daily feed window.

FYI, grains have little to no nutrional value. They are the root cause of the "diseases of civilization". Eating fruits and veg will get you plenty of fiber. The grain industry is heavily subsidized and has a powerful lobby that spreads propaganda about the "healthfulness" of their garbage products.

Avoid processed foods, esp GMOs.

Low carb diets with a large NO eating window are good for you. Eat the best quality food with a LOT of organic veg. You'll feel so good you will wish you had done It sooner!

I just can't give up good French or Italian bread or a big NYC bagel all loaded with butter every now and then. I mean like at least once a week. I used to love sandwiches but have lost my taste for them. I still like some of the stuff I put in the sandwich but I like to eat it on a plate and then if I want bread have some on the side. About a couple of years ago I noticed that whenever I ate a sandwich or even a burger on a bun I was pulling out the inside and eating it without the bread. So now I figure why bother.

There are times when I intensely miss breads and desserts.

I eat healthy, fruits, vegetables, almonds, steel cut oats, nonfat Greek yogurt salmon for Omego-3 fatty acids; cut out pasta, desserts, crackers, baked goods, etc., etc. However, with my lunch, I must have a nice piece of bread. I love good bread. I try and stay away from white bread, but I love good grain bread, rosemary bread, olive loaf, etc. It fills me up...and I can't give up everything.

Bulletproof coffee is my breakfast and I love it (MCT oil/heavy cream/ghee/collagen powder). I don't eat until 2pm (protein/veg/fat). I don't snack. I eat my last meal at 5p -only protein and a cup of broth with a little butter and salt). I drink tea, water and seltzer. I'm never hungry.

The weight comes off with no effort. I do work out, but only strength/weight training. I don't do cardio - I think it ages you.

I just find it incredibly hard to believe that loading up on butter and bacon is good for you.

R271, I don't load up on those things and the fats I use are high quality. It's not like you sit there with an ice cream scoop and a giant tub of Land O' Lakes and just go to town.

If people are actually loading up on that stuff, they're doing it wrong.

But doesn’t the keto diet call for your diet to largely consist of saturated fat like butter and heavy whipping cream?

Yes, but that doesn't mean you're eating entire bars of butter. It only means that most of your meal should be fat. It doesn't take a lot to hit the target and it sure as hell doesn't take a lot to get you full. Personally, I eat maybe 3-4 tbls of butter and heavy cream (combined). I add it to my coffee, fish/chicken and vegetables. I don't eat any starch. I don't eat anything after 5-5:30. My bloodwork is fine (which is saying something because genetically, I'm predisposed toward high cholesterol).

I really do believe that sugar is what's making us sick. I think the 80s/90s were a bad time for those dieting because all of that fat free crap was loaded with sugar.

Good quality fats are not unhealthy.

Good quality fats are essential for healthy living, I say, and I'm not going to crucify myself or someone else for enjoying some good bread.

I started Keto on November 17th and weighed 231. Today I am at 214. 17 pounds in about six weeks and i don't even feel like I am trying. Today I had turkey cooked in ghee for breakfast. Lunch was a big bowl of chicken salad made from chicken, mayonnaise, celery and onions. Dinner was steamed vegetables with butter on top. I also had a little bit of almonds for a snack. I have actually paid more attention to killing the carbs and less attention to the fat and protein but do include fat with every meal. Oh, I also had a small bowl of frozen berries for desert.

R276, sounds like the diet is paying off, but what do you mean by “killing carbs”? Celery/onion = carbs; steamed veggies = carbs; berries = carbs; almonds, while high in protein and fat also have carbs. I assume you’re referring to the quality and type of carbs you are ingesting?

Also, do you have your berries with some (non-sweetened) whipped cream or full fat yogurt? You should, a great way to get some more fat in, while maximizing the antioxidant benefits of the berries!

Butter Bob’s diet looks more paleo than keto.

You're on the right track, R276.

I use Benecol as my "butter" alternative. It has plant sterols which supposedly help lower your cholesterol.

We've cut way back on sugar in general. And carbs are limited too. As to those saying meat clogs the arteries - you do realize that external cholesterol is excreted not absorbed right? And that most metabolic disease can be traced directly to refined sugar.

And the coffee - yeah it stimulates dopamine production.

I have found that cooking whole, unprocessed food, at home, has really helped my waistline, health and bank account. It is also anti-inflammatory.

I try to avoid all "Frankenfood" - labeling is often deceptive. Remember the 70s, when foods like margarine and Tang were endorsed by the govt, who later reversed themselves?

I eat pretty Paleo and have lost 30 pounds this fall, without trying. I do eat a bananna a day and often sweet potatoes and organic steel cut oats too. I need some carbs or feel like I can't think as well. I really try to focus on the quality of the food I eat and I don't eat between 7 and 9. I used to order out a lot in the late evening.

I do eat a lot of greens, brussel sprouts, cabbage and squash. A favorite at the moment is acorn squash stuffed with caramelized onion, sauted apple, pasture raised pork and sage. Really good! Another is a stir fry of pasture raised beef, shredded green cabbage, caramelized onions and carrot "ribbons" made with a potato peeler - with rosemary and thyme.

I had previously had chronic tendonitis, which has disappeared. Even eating salad at place like Cava or Chopt causes it to flare back up. The excitotoxin chemicals added to processed food, esp salad dressings, commercially prepared chicken (esp those rotisserie birds) and soup/stock are no joke.

Hope 2018 is a healthy one for all!

Avoid saturated fat is still the govt message, they don't have the best track record, historically. The AHA has modified their stance.

I eat high quality pasture raised protein, some grass raised dairy and wild caught salmon. To me, eating beef that was grass raised, as cows were intended to eat, is far better than beef or eggs raised on GMO corn and soy that were saturated in glyphosate. Tastes way better too.

Eating a LOT of fresh organic plants is so important. You won't believe how good you feel.

Sugar is bad, as are all processed foods. Inflammation is horrible for health. Can't stand Tom Brady but if you eat the way he does, the impact on your health will amaze you. The chronic aches and pains went away and weight just fell off.

Not all governments are shills for Big Food and Big Pharma

While R282/R283 has fallen into the DL trap of sounding like ad copy ("high quality pasture raised protein") try and get past that because what he says is 100% correct -- the fewer processed foods you eat, the better. Limiting sugar is key too. Ditto most bread and bakery items. For a lot of people limiting/cutting out dairy helps with gas and other stomach issues.

Good news is after a few months you don't miss sugar, bread or dairy.

Another tip: If you can, try and limit the window during which you eat to around 8 hours. So breakfast at 10 and dinner and 6 and lunch somewhere in between. Not always practical, but you sleep a lot better if you're not digesting food.

Finally, grass fed beef is not always easy to find-- Whole Foods usually has it-- curious if those of you in smaller towns and cities are able to find it

A prepared item that comes in a package and is sold under a brand name is NOT FOOD. It's a product. At a minimum, it is laced with preservatives so that it can sit in a warehouse and then in a shelf before somebody buys it. But it usually doesn't stop there. Salt added. Sugar added. Fat added, or subtracted. When they are done with it... it's no longer food.

Buy actual food in its natural state and cook for yourself. You will know what you are eating. You will build a lot of knowledge and skills. You will be healthier.

R285, I'm the PP. I was trying to make the point that the quality of food matters, not just protein, fat, etc. It was life changing for me health-wise. A lot of the flavoring/processing chemicals I react to are more common in processed "health" food, my issues got worse. Labeling is not that well regulated.

My east coast city has year round farmers markets. I started going there and buying meat, veg, eggs, dairy and fruit. It's organic or sustainable. I actually save $, it tastes way better and the tendonitis pain vanished. Weight fell off. My mom was big on Tang, Hamburger Helper, etc so I didn't really know how to cook. The more rotisserie chickens and prepared salads I ate the worse my health conditions got. Both are full of added excitotoxin flavorings.

I cook pretty simple things and often batch cook for the week because I am lazy. I was intimidated by cooking, but throwing a chicken or vegetables in the oven to roast is actually easy. I bring food to work in old take out containers, and people often ask me where I bought it - healthy food can look, smell and taste really good!

Big Food wants to keep you hooked, whether at Wegmans or Whole Paycheck. The Brazilian guidelines, to cook whole foods, at home, is actually quite radical. If you want to make changes for health, remember you are what you eat. Quality counts. Sugar is bad and I suspect glyphosate is not good. I have almost no recycling now, good, since I am lazy.

One thing that is hard is avoiding stocks, bullion etc. I react to the flavoring agents in those. I'm considering an Instant Pot to make bone broth, as someone recommended above.

These chemicals are especially prevalent in "health" processed food. Some are banned in other countries. Some countries have pulled US oats and grains due to high glyphosate levels caused by dry harvesting techniques. My health issues were a blessing in disguise as I had never heard of any of this. I ate a lot of gmo artificially flavored soy for years, or fake milks full of caragean, thinking those were healthier choices.

I spend a short time at a market, support local farmers, save $ and no longer need antihistamines or anti-inflamatories, win/win. Local food also has far less, if any, insecticides applied, necessary for shipping long distances and sitting out in commercial grocers.

How big were you R287?

I think it's great that you've become woke as to how bad all those chemicals are for you and how much better you feel avoiding them. Glad your tendonitis has cleared up.

You should read some of Dave Asprey's stuff, but take it with a giant dose of (Himalayan sea) salt as he can be both incredibly impractical and an hopeless shill for his own overpriced supplements. But his podcasts are interesting and the gist of what he's putting out is spot on.

His protein bars, which are available at Whole Foods, are pretty tasty though they tend to crumble if you keep them in your coat or bag. I like the RX bars too, though those can get super sticky on a hot day.

^^Not advocating making bars a major part of any diet, but there's usually once or twice a week where grabbing one makes sense as I'm running around.

The industrial origins of a lot of processed foods flavoring (even in "health" food) are really disgusting and the health problems caused are no joke.

I will not be surprised if they are linked to weight gain, sub-par food is made to artificially taste like food that is full of nutrients. People are chemically induced to eat more, while actually being under-nourished. Mice in labs are given chemicals to induce obesity and inflammation, those chemicals are legally added to human food, even "organic, all natural" food as flavoring, stabilizers, thickeners, etc.

The first thing most vets will tell you re a pet with a chronic or inflammatory condition is to cook them whole, organic foods instead of a commercial diet. Pet food is also full of GMO corn, soy and the accompanying glyphosate. Hmmmm....

To the whole foods/keto poster, do you make fat bombs or are you past the point of really needing them?

I've lost @ 30 lbs and could lose another 10-15. Now that I don't have hamstring and Achilles pain I walk a lot more. I'm guessing by spring the rest of the weight will be gone and I hope to get back to running.

I know people who have lost 80-100+ pounds by simply switching to a Paleoish lower carb diet cooking at home. For some, it was in response to a lay off, with unexpected benefits. Brussels sprouts are cheap and fill you up!

Eating out a lot, eating late and processed food pack on the lbs. There was a story on Yahoo about a mom with a lot of little kids who simply started using an Instant Pot nightly and eating more veg - and ane lost something like 75 lbs in a year and saved a ton of $$$. The Instant Pot was actually faster than ordering pizza so it fit her life. Batch cooking works for me.

In the 40s, people were not morbidly obese. Eat like that but find tricks that make it convenient. The advent of processed food with all the chemicals added did humans no favors.

Bar guy, a baggie of organic (almonds can have up to 12 chemicals sprayed on them, yuck) nuts is also super portable and heart healthy. Vary the nuts and seeds for max benefit according to a nutritionist friend. Bars have a lot of sticky stuff holding them together, not great for your teeth.

Thanks R293

I do carry nuts with me as I travel--I make a combo of organic raw almonds, cashews and pistachios and sometimes macadamia..

Bars are tricky-- most are crap, full of chemicals and flavored with some form of aspartame.

The two I mentioned - RX and Bulletproof - are not. Bulletproof are cookie-like in texture so no sticky binders there (the downside as I mentioned is they are prone to crumbling). RX are made with dates so can get sticky, but the one or two RX bars I have each week are not going to hurt my teeth.

You should also try to add weight-bearing exercise into your routine and flexibility work-- as you get older, both are very important.

Carb-lovers who still can't give it up need to try Cappello's almond flour pasta. I found it at Whole Foods, and a lot of these paleo foods can be purchased at Amazon. It was better than the pasty gluten-free crap in the 1990s that still didn't keep my grandmother from dying of cancer.

A paleo diet is like monogamy: it only works when you actually do it.

I like that this topic is getting lots of action two days away from 2018. I hope those who made resolutions to lose weight next year take notes before their next grocery shopping.

Thanks, R294.

Will try to incorporate that for the new year.

People on medications for sinusitis, asthma, depression, IBD, tendonitis, arthritis or skin conditions should think about trying to eat whole foods cooked at home for 2-4 weeks, your symptoms may improve or even disappear.

I used to buy a lot of prepared food due to laziness and finding simple cooking intimidating. Buying things felt treating myself even though it gets really expensive.

After pockets of melted bars I tried nuts and dumped the big bag into little bags when I got home. Obvious to you guys, no doubt, but new skills for me to make it all grab and go.

I literally feel about 15 years younger since changing to home cooked whole food, that now is super reinforcing. I can't believe how much cheaper it is, either.

There is a lot of research about canola, it is in most products even at WF, TJ, etc. The impact of processed food on health is enormous.

If you don't have something like this, see if one can be started in your town.

Supporting local business is great and its a huge gift to your health, and yes, your wallet.

The weekday downtown markets for much the year are super convenient. I have friends who are even lazier who do a CSA, they don't have to shop. Many of the farmers also sell to local WF.

When I got sick, I tried being careful about labels, but the chemicals that trigger the tendonitis, rash and GI symptoms for me can be labeled as "spices" or "natural flavors." A woman I work with likes to go to the markets at lunchtime to buy fruit. When I went with her I realized that buying whole foods made it all simple.

Farmer sold meat tends to have the actual spices labeled and it is frozen, no added preservatives or flavoring agents. When I asked the farmer how to cook the chicken, he didn't laugh, just said, stick it in a pot in the oven with salt and pepper, throw in some veg if you want. It's all simple, old school, etc but it's also cheap and easy and quick. Not having to worry about stomach issues or waking up stiff and with pain has changed my life. Losing weight and saving $ are nice too. 15 minutes at the market is the time I used to spend trying to find parking at WF on a Saturday.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Here Nell, you can have my piece of the cake. I don't want it.

Almost of the govt dietary recommendations have contributed to poor health and obesity - from "low fat" (code for high sugar) to "diet" being healthier (code for aspartame and other dangerous sweeteners, promoted for kids!) to eating frequently throughout the day (causes havoc with insulin and leads to excessive calories and metabolic syndrome). At the same time, healthy protein and healthy fat - eggs, nuts, seeds, avocado - were forbidden. Synthetic foods like Tang were promoted.

Does anyone else remember the recent OJ expose? Many, esp parents, still consider it to be a healthy beverage, yet it is stored in tanks for years. The flavor and vitamins are restored from synthetics. That is why each brand has a consistent and unique taste. Uh, yuck! The whole fruit has genuine health benefits that processing strips. Much of US oj is made from foreign oranges - who knows what pesticides or herbicides are used?

Flavonoids are inherent in fresh, high quality, high nutrition food. An heirloom tomato, a fresh ripe peach, fresh spinach are examples of food with a highly rewarding taste. Big Food tricks the brain into thinking junk, like sugar water full of artificial flavors and colors, is the same. The chemicals cause us to crave and over-consume junk,while our bodies are starving for nutrients. Artificial added vitamins may be derived from petroleum products and may not be very bioavailable. Many are overfed yet undernourished.

Whole high quality food tastes great and actually nourishes. Pasture raised is a cue that eggs or meat were not created from Monsanto GMO feeds drenched in 5 times more glyphosate. Cows in particular are intended to eat grass, not GMO feed. When their food makes them sick, they are pumped full of antibiotics, which can end up in your meat and dairy. If you can buy at a farmer's market, it's so easy to avoid the Frankenfood issues. Food that genuinely is full of flavonoids tastes great, like you might remember...and it supports your good health.

I can't eat a high protein-fat diet. It's CONSTIPATING!

Eat a lot of vegetables, too, R302.

R302 - Add a FULL TBSP of excellent Olive Oil to your daily dietary intact. In addition to its improving your cardiovascular system (e.g., lessens 'gummy' arteries), your skin, your hair, your joints, it also helps to 'keep things moving around down there.'

" . . . daily dietary INTAKE . . . "

And at least 48 ozs. of fluids: water, coffee, herbal tea, daily. (The reason for a lesser amount of fluids is because anything more than this amount may flush away your life-sustaining electrolytes.)

Those of you who are women and have given up dairy, how are you getting your calcium? The calcium range for me is 1200 mg a day. Without a cup of kefir, and a cup of milk I can't reach my goal.

Guys need calcium too. If dairy bothers you, try a supplement. If not, keep on, or try things at link. Try to keep to organic dairy, the added hormones are risky. Weight bearing exercise is also really helpful.

The fake milks are full of flavoring and thickeners that may cause inflammation and cancer, consider avoiding those.

This was in another thread, gross. Cut out processed and packaged foods and eat organic to reduce your glyphosate load. Do not trust any marketing.

R11, bet you feel better and are saving $$$ too!

There was a very helpful post by a female about being on the keto diet and made reference to a book called Wheat Belly. Her post isn't here anymore. What happened to it?

Weird.

I started a low carb high fat diet on November 17th and have gone from 231 to 206. I never feel hungry or deprived. This diet works. I am aiming for 189.

Hi fat low carb no sugar with lots of fresh vegetables and berries has really worked wonders for me. I feel a lot better and people have told me that I look younger. I will take that any day!

South Beach diet is supposed to be the healthiest.

what about eclairs? how fattening is it? i've been eating 1 every day for the past week. i still weigh the same.