Tonight the Documentary "Whitney Houston Can I Be Me" airs 9pm EST Showtime

This will undoubtedly be the last documentary that treats Crawford with the respect and recognition of the very significant place she had in Houston's life. The family sponsored doc due next year will certainly reduce Robyn to a cypher. - just an assistant. Lets hope she holds a place that is more than a jealous mother's revenge and intolerance. Fortunately there are friends of theirs, even clinical professionals, that grant Whitney the dignity and respect due their relationship. They will tell you there was great love lots of fun and healthy mutual respect between Whitney and Robyn.

To see Whitney and Crawford together, the deep connections between them using virtually no words is mesmerizing. The sense of trust and safety is palpable. Crawford was Whitney's constant and most devoted companion for nearly all her life, even during the majority of her years with Brown. Houston & Crawford shared 3 living situations and essentially built a life together. There are a few people that are telling the truth - they understand that Rejecting the principle relationship is the stuff of cruelty and denies a human being authenticity so critical to human survival. Also they are less interested in maintaining family access and more dedicated to wanting people to understand how fame came to wreck any normal family life for Whitney - even dictating who she could be seen with in public.

Two close friends, very at ease in thier own lives with the LGBT community, express outrage at the games and harassment both Whitney and Crawford endured. They arent interested at all in making up stories about being "best friends" nor are they going to play the crudely homophobic taunting closet card "did you see them kiss" or "show me the photos." They understand that the hate directed at Crawford hurt Whitney beyond imagination. They are being direct and forthright about her bisexuality.

(One failing in this doc was the lack of context of the AIDS epidemic that just drove profound LGBT bashing across the US into monstrously out of control attacks - in churches - like the one Whitney grew up in.)

There is only one unimaginably awful scene. It involves Leolah? Brown bragging about the day Cissy showed up for an intervention. (This would be the same crew of Brown sisters that arranged a bathroom with paraphanelia took a photo and shopped it to the National Enquirer for a pay day after Whitney slipped Browns gasp for last time. The end of the pay day for Leolah). Brown himself presents as affable initially, charming even - but quickly disintegrates to gross bullying, endlessly narcissistic stupid juvenile. It is apparent the tales of this mans off the rails behavior were not in anyway exaggerated. While he didn't "introduce" Whitney to partying it is apparent his conduct drove her to depths of despair we cant imagine. Check out the despicable, abusive way he treats Crawford, she stays cool and is the picture of class as she tried to slip his grasp.

Remember that despite all this Whitney kept her cool until the bitter end - she struggled to keep her love, her career. She expanded into a remarkable record setting success as a television producer. She was facing her life changing 50th birthday when she fainted at the Hilton. Her 2nd act would have been remarkable.

Nick Broomfield's "Kurt and Courtney" was one of the worst documentaries that I've ever seen. I'll watch the WH pic but my expectations are low, low, low.

I haven't seen Kurt and Courtney but a lot of his documentaries are very good

To DL posters - expect to see tons of negative posts about this documentary - nearly all of it comes from rabid homophobic Whitney fans. To discuss Whitney Houstons Bisexuality on any Whitney Forum is like mistakenly posting on StormFront. In here they will code the language to suit the blog. Dont be fooled by the weak civility.- they are full on bigoted haters.

[quote]literally her unequalled musicality

Unequalled? In all of history?

You can give a talented performer their due without making ridiculous, over-the-top, gushing, fannish remarks like this.

This is a flawed film but worth watching if you were a fan. Mercifully, Broomfield took a cue from Amy and is neither in the film nor does he provide voice over. But it's not definitive.

[quote]Where we derive the most pleasure from witnessing Whitney's private life is from the same moments we have seen on YouTube for over a decade - it is her deep devotion to her daughter. Bobbie Kristina was EVERYthING to her mother.

Not quite.

R5 When America's Got Talent or The Voice moves the gushing and rapture goal post beyond even a vague resemblence to a Whitney hit I will recant. But until then - you lose.

Block R7 Haters got to hate. That way all we have to contend with is the vicious Whitney homophobes.

R9:

The last thing I am is homophobic.

You starry-eyed fans, who countenance no criticism, and slander anyone who does not share your adoration, are so tiresome.

Whitney had a great voice, but she was a mess, maybe, in part, because of her family. THEY, not me, are the homophobes.

I DON'T HAVE CABLE TV!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[quote] Whitney had a great voice, but she was a mess, maybe, in part, because of her family.

But what does one have to do with the other (outside the fact that the drugs caused Whitney to lose that great voice eventually)? Yes, she was a drug addict and the drugs finally killed her, but you can still appreciate the amazing range and beautiful voice she had without condoning the lifestyle.

Nippy say What!

R12 unless you are referring to the Cocaine fueled 1980's & 1990's as in more families than not had young adults high as kites on weed and coke -what EXATLY do you mean "lifestyle"?

So please elaborate if you are implying something beyond the drugs that were fueling mass incarceration of African Americans across america... Like we dont want anyone thinking she was the only artist or American with a substance abuse problem. So what lifestyle issue?

Broomfield's documentary on Heidi Fleiss was quite good.

And so was his one on Wuornos

I hope this makes that old homophobic cunt Cissy stroke out. And ruins the market for any family-approved documentary.

[quote]So please elaborate if you are implying something beyond the drugs that were fueling mass incarceration of African Americans across america... Like we dont want anyone thinking she was the only artist or American with a substance abuse problem. So what lifestyle issue?

I see your concern, but you are latching on to a bad example to make your point.

Whitney is not like "everyone was doing it."

I can't think of another example of a singer who was as talented who so publicly lost her voice and life to drugs while America watched.

You have to go back to Billie Holliday, and she didn't fuck up her voice like Whitney. Whitney was an unlistenable mess at some concerts.

Even on Divas Live Las Vegas, she appeared high AF with Bobby Brown and could barely get a note out that was right. I watched it live and it was so fucking sad. I don't think they ever showed it again.

That was not a run of the mill "everybody spokes weed or takes. Xanax" story.

R11 I am sorry you are so fucked out of this great documentary.

R11, I want to watch it, too. Maybe it will get uploaded on youtube later. Or the local library will get the DVD

R18 At least Whit and Bobby looked good in their yellow outfits.

Amen R17. I'd like to kick that old cunt right in the crotch wearing steel-toed boots. Cissy's psychotic religiosity sent Whitney straight to the crack pipe then on to the grave, by way of the closet.

Even Bobby Brown admitted, “I really feel that if Robyn was accepted into Whitney’s life, Whitney would still be alive today."

Anyone watching it? I'm about a half-hour in and it's good.

This is so depressing. What a loss.

The concert reels are magnificent. Props to Whitney for loving Crawford enough to tell Brown to stick it. Truth is she probably never wanted to let him have the control of her life the way he did when RC wasnt around. It looks like there were great moments withhim - but mostly when the camera was rolling I bet. Glad he is not interviewed.

Anyone know who the woman is saying Robyn why are you leaving? A dancer?

This is an amazing look into her life. I think she really loved Bobby, but also Robin who, though I never saw a picture of before, seems to be a lesbian. Such confliction. They mention a few a times of her low self esteem, even regarding her gorgeous looks when she was young. And Bobbie Kristina? That child was doomed from birth..

She definetly loved Robyn - confirmed. She lived with her in three different locations, broke up got back together a couple times. There was talk of AIDS activists outing her in the late 80's. Most of them came to their senses and left her alone. She was good to us - it was a huge debate.

"To DL posters - expect to see tons of negative posts about this documentary - nearly all of it comes from rabid homophobic Whitney fans. "

Nobody watched it. It is not even trending on Twitter. Too much is going on tonight for Americans on Friday August 25 to care about Whitney OR Lady Diana.

Oops this image of the bathroom sinc is what her idiot inlaw - Browns equally shitty and mentally deranged sister did to her when Whitney fled him to go into rehab and divorce him. They were upset to see the paychecks come to an end. Just a revolting family of leeches. This part - pay attention...how she got sober and started cutting people off. Brown didnt like a it and started the drugs up again.

Newsflash r29, some of us are interested and need 2 fucking hours that are Trump-free. Got it?

They are exposing A LOT of stuff unknown to the general public. Like Whitney ODed on cocaine while filming Waiting to Exhale--this would be long before the public knew or suspected she had a drug problem. She was still glamorous, poised, elegant Whitney then.

[quote]There was talk of AIDS activists outing her in the late 80's.

About 1990 she did appear on posters in NYC proclaiming her [bold]ABSOLUTELY QUEER[/bold], along with Tom Cruise, Jodie Foster, Sherman Hemsley, David Geffen, Greg Louganis, Barry Diller, Calvin Klein, and others.

Some, like Geffen and Louganis, eventually came out. Most never did.

Robin at the end, now living with her partner Lisa and with twins. So horribly sad, I now think living in the closet was her biggest downfall.

Pretty fair assumption R34

R29 Marry me.

LOL, anytime R36!

To the rest of you, I should add I am 53 next week and I LIVED through every moment of each lady's rise to stardom. I don't feel like re-living it again.

Cissy Houston is an evil bitch. Church-loving as she may be. Her refusal to let Whitney live her life as a lesbian led to Whitney's drug abuse and death. Cissy will never admit it. But it's true. Plus, Cissy was jealous of Whitney's massive success. Cissy was well-known, but never a real "star," and it burnt her ass that Whitney went all the way.

Love how r29 and r26 think this was a waste of time because OMG! Whitney Houston is not even trending what with Arpaio and Harvey and Gorka! See what I did there? Anyway , also love how you check this thread with all of your moral outrage.

[quote]I LIVED through every moment of each lady's rise to stardom. I don't feel like re-living it again.

And yet here you are, trolling this thread.

Was there any truth to that wild rumor that Whitney slapped Jodie Foster (around the time Jodie was filming "The Accused") because Jodie was hooking up with Kelly McGillis? I think Jodie Foster is great, but I always loved the image I had in my mind of Whitney ripping open a trailer door, storming in on a tryst between Jodie and Kelly, screaming "That's my woman, BITCH!" and walloping Jodie with a mean right hook.

Whitney ruined her voice the same way Boy George did. Freebasing. This doc is heartbreaking and made me realize how much I miss her.

R41 here. I said slapped, but I think the account was that Whitney actually punched Jodie.

I'm shocked she Od'd on coke during waiting to exhale, I wonder if Angela Bassett knew, she could have put it in that shitty movie she directed about Whitney.

I liked Whitney, but I never found her as amazing as others seem to. A big leather-lungs singer who never really touched the deep emotionality of the songs. Not sure I have enough interest to get all involved in this film.

R45, I was never a big fan but I'm finding the doc very compelling.

She was huge when she first started. And beautiful,of course. I'm shocked, but not really, that I never saw Robin until tonight. She was obviously a lesbian. No problem with that, but she was probably kept out of the press for obvious reasons having to do with Whitney's career. Sadly.

Why is Nick Gordon not in jail?

Robyn was around and seen back in the day, she was not hidden. There was a documentary on Whitney in the early nineties and Robyn was all over that docu. I think you can see it on YouTube.

R48 That's not Nick, that's Bobby.

R49,I've been around since the beginning of Whitney's career and never saw a picture of Robin. I hear what you're saying but I never saw a pic of Robin until tonight.

Who was that old creep on that French show who said he wanted to fuck her?

so cissy is the mother?

she was jealous of her own daughter? What a fucking cunt!

some of these people look so rough! they didn't get good makeup and the eye area is all blackish!

To me Whitney and Bobby were definitely in love. There really was an emotional link there for him from Whitney. I also understand where Whitney's mother was coming from too. She's from a different time and she didn't want her daughter, her black daughter at that, to be seen as a lesbian. Not just because she was in the limelight. But because like most black mothers. She wanted her daughter to get married to a black man and have that beautiful black family and grow up and old together. But she's also a very religious and spiritual woman as well. So that definitely played a part in what she thought was the best direction for her daughter's life. Maybe there was something going on with Whitney and Robyn. Maybe she was bisexual. But I doubt she was a full blown lesbian. There was just to much of an emotional connection between her and Bobby for the lesbian thing to be true. You couldn't fake what Bobby and Whitney had between the two of them. Especially because people always like to point to the body guard movie and point out that they think whitney was a bad actress. I didn't!! But because of the time and was cissy grew up. I cut her slack. Because I understand. I just like when people say we can't judge baby boomer whites if they happen to be bigots and or racists because they come from the Jim Crow era and their set in their ways. It's the same thing with cissy. So I give her a break. I'm black myself and I completely understand the elders in my family who may not agree with bisexuality or being gay. They just don't get it because they come from a different time. I personally loved Whitney and Bobby together. I hope Whitney and Bobby Christina are both RIP together.

Is r54 serious?

Maybe after Cissy dies Robyn will write a book and tell the real story.

Serge Gainsbourgh [r52].

R56 Robyn should write it now and hopes it kicks Cissy into the grave, that greedy, homophobic old cunt.

This can't be worse than that Lifetime movie.

[quote] But what does one have to do with the other (outside the fact that the drugs caused Whitney to lose that great voice eventually)? Yes, she was a drug addict and the drugs finally killed her, but you can still appreciate the amazing range and beautiful voice she had without condoning the lifestyle.

We don't know that drug use caused her to lose her voice. That's just an assumption. Plenty of entertainers use drugs and still maintain their voices. Smoking certainly can and I imagine usually does cause some deterioration. Houston's problem seemed to be greater than that though. According Chaka Khan, Whitney had vocal chord nodules and she refused to have surgery. Chaka had the same issue, but she opted for the surgery. That sounds a little more accurate, than the drug claims. Chaka Khan is also a recovering drug addict who has maintained her voice.

[quote] Maybe after Cissy dies Robyn will write a book and tell the real story.

I'm not certain why people insist on making Cissy Houston out to be a villain. She was born in 1933 (the Silent Generation). Her ideas about sexuality are no different that most people her age. Remember when everyone said Paula Deen deserved a pass because her views and experiences were a reflection of her age and her generational demographic. Most parents of that generation were not able to embrace homosexuality in their children. Coming out of the closet in the 1980s could ruin your life. As an adult Whitney made her own choices. Good bad or indifferent, they were hers. Let that old woman rest. She lost both her daughter and granddaughter. And we know that the loss of a child for any parent is just about unbearable.

This idea that all of Whitney's demons would have ceased to exist if she felt free to be a lesbian (and live a life committed to a woman she started dating in her teens) is ridiculous. Its all a part of this rather creepy mythology that includes the evil villain Cissy, the beautiful princess Whitney, the knight in shining armor Robin, and a larger assortment of fairy tale like characters and themes. Life is not a fairy tale. People are complicated and life is complicated.

Cissy Houston is made to be the villain because she is a villain. Also making a surprise cameo as a villain in this documentary: Katie Fucking Couric.

I think that Whitney was most likely bi, but NO - she was not full on lesbian. Her connection with Bobby was obvious - usually to her own detriment. She had everything going for her - stunning looks (perhaps one of the most beautiful black women ever - HELL, one of the most beautiful women period), that VOICE that sounded like an angelic alien, and she became a huge success. She was an addict just like 75% of Hollywood and the music industry both; most are addicts. Her story is a sad one - but man oh man did she live a privileged life. She fucking deserved it. Everything about her was beautiful. Who can claim that title? She was unhappy and caught up in her addictions and yes that killed both her career and her poor abused body in the end. I hate those that demonize Whitney and forget about the other 8 out of ten musicians who were similar addicts but are never trash talked. Her talent and that voice will never ever be forgotten. At the very least, she was not some creeper like MJ or a fame whore with little vocal abilities like Madonna. I actually like all three stars for different reasons, but feel that Whitey gets a bad rap. I adore her and mourn her passing, but her fate was inevitable. She paved the way for every music star of any ethnicity other than Caucasian to be a top 40 smash - and drugged up or not (usually the prior), she was a class act up until the end when her bad habits ruined that angelic voice. Personally, I think of her as being one of the most talented singers of all time. She is and always will be GREATLY missed.

R60 Christ, you're really reaching to make excuses for that old cunt. Cissy killed Whitney as surely as if she'd shot her.

Even after Whitney's death that bitch was proudly, defiantly homophobic on the Oprah Winfrey show.

[quote]Let that old woman rest.

Gladly. The sooner she's burning in the Hell she held over Whitney's head, the happier we'll all be.

The whole gay vs bi argument is specious. Even her husband admits Robyn was the love of her life.

What does it say about a family when Dionne Warwick is the sanest one?

women = woman sorry

[quote] What does it say about a family when Dionne Warwick is the sanest one?

That's interesting particularly being that we know absolutely nothing about the majority of the family. And the members that we do know about have faced the same type of problems that millions of other families face.

And that includes your family R66.

I used to feel sorry for her, but realistically speaking she was an adult who surrounded herself with leeches and she didn't want to kick them out because they were family. She was dumb ghetto trash, thinking 'praising the lord' made her better and smarter than everybody else. Her relationship with Ray J was just so that she could prove she could still get a young lover that could elevate her status as a 40 year old woman. She never learned and understood sound values because all she knew was 'praise the lord'.

Hysterical to see the denial, albeit a little, that Whitney was Lesbian- clearly she was for about 11 years with Robyn. When Robyn put a dress on and makeup she was gorgeous! Love the comments about Villains in Whitney's life - Katie Couric and dont forget Diane Sawyer!

My heart goes out to Cissy for her loss I cannot imagine how she can even get up everyday. That sentiment aside - Sure Cissy was the old school but think about all the gay male singers and backup singes she knew! If she was singing in NYC there is no excuse for her to be so hateful. And by God if Oprah asks you a question - you better tell the truth cause Ms.O has done her homework and she Already KNEW the answer. In fact I bet she even asked Robyn who said I will tell no one but you - yes we were. Oprah dug in for a reason - she Was trying to give Cissy an opportunity and Cissy was cruel as ever. That Cissy spent a lifetime shitting on Robyn is unforgivable - also her endless remarks about "I made her talent?" Wow she couldnt even express profound pride - she had to pretty much say - "Fuck her. - I DID IT. " that was simply atrocious..

The remark upthread that this is a "Creepy mythology" you cant makeup words that have not been expressed use them yourself and call other people out for it. I think that is what is now called Fake News. And now we are sick to death of BS Trumpian thinking and deception. Families are complicated - obviously in this family there were genuinely bad dynamics: a brother that claims to use heroin at 10?? Cissy being so abussive to her daughter girlfriend that people notice everywhere! No i think Robyn and Whitney were the ONLY SANE ONES - no mythology required. I liked that her bodyguard said "Whitney was a person that did not want to stand out, didnt want to be noticed. Bobby was total opposite. With him he turned it into a competition." That was a good girl Whitney - that was very obvious. But it was very estate of him to say that. Overall good, riveting Documentary. Yes Whitney and Robyn should have been left in peace.

Cissy is pure evil. I remember when she responded with 'Why should I be jealous of Whitney, I made her!' during an interview after her death. Cissy had no problems participating in some stupid TV show and writing a tell all just to make some profit from her daughter's death.

They are the worse of the worse. Absolute trash. Whitney never had a chance being born into such a hypocritical family. She herself had no morals either. I loved her singing, but as a person I am sure she was awful.

[quote] I used to feel sorry for her, but realistically speaking she was an adult who surrounded herself with leeches and she didn't want to kick them out because they were family. She was dumb ghetto trash, thinking 'praising the lord' made her better and smarter than everybody else. Her relationship with Ray J was just so that she could prove she could still get a young lover that could elevate her status as a 40 year old woman. She never learned and understood sound values because all she knew was 'praise the lord'.

Right because she is the first and only celebrity who didn't grow up rich and who was raised in the Christian faith. The difference being that white celebrities are referred to as "dumb" "ghetto trash" because they come from more humble backgrounds. And most do come from humble backgrounds and particularly those from the "Golden Age" of Hollywood. Simply because most people in this country are not rich. Its a shame that black celebs and racial minorities in general can't be discussed here without being filtered through some sort of white supremacist lens. But I guess that is just the reality of how many of you view and interpret the world around you. White celebrities regardless of the level of dysfunction are never denigrated and maligned the way racial minorities are, particularly blacks. For example if you read through the Aaron Carter threads there's this tremendous outpouring of empathy and sympathy. Despite his families incredible level of dysfunction (which includes drug addiction, mismanagement and ultimately a lawsuit, filed by Aaron against his mom, domestic violence, and like Houston a cringe worthy reality tv series) you won't find the denigration of Carter and his entire family. Some of you are so transparent.

R69 Not many people could be trashier than you.

R70 You need to rewrite that. Its a mess. Let me know if you need some help.

R71 Im certain that you are morally superior to everyone (in your own mind),

R72, I really like your post - spot on. Yes you can help me rewrite my post I know I can do better. My points still stand. I have it first hand except the Oprah part. We know Oprah is not going to let someone make a fool of her. She had the 911.

[quote]For example if you read through the Aaron Carter threads there's this tremendous outpouring of empathy and sympathy.

Not from me.

Anybody denying how 'much ghetto trash' she was forgets that both Nippy and Bobby smoked crack in front of their daughter and forgets how much their lowest was on display on the Bobby Brown show.

Whitney wasn't sophisticated, she wasn't smart.

I get so emotional, baby.

Everytime I think of Whitney.

Ain't it shockin' what...

What bulldaggin' can do!

I never really cared for her music until the I'M YOUR BABY TONIGHT album.

I also really loved her final album. Great cuts on it with Nothin' But LOve and the Akon duet, Like I Never Left.

The first two albums were crap, IMO.

Bobby had swag!

Whitney had dookie bubbles!

How is Katie Couric a villan, too?

[quote]White celebrities regardless of the level of dysfunction are never denigrated and maligned the way racial minorities are, particularly blacks.

Please. Bieber, Miley and Aaron Carter are frequently called ignorant white trash on DL.

Cissy was surrounded by gays while working in New York. She worked side by side with her niece, Dee Dee, and with Estelle Brown in the Sweet Inspirations. Van McCoy, Rudy Lewis, Clyde McPhatter. She no doubt saw the price of self loathing. Sad that she didn't use that milieu to grow as a person.

I watched the first half last night, which had lots of pre-fame photos of Whitney as a teenager.

Total sporty-butch lesbian. Once she got into the Clive Davis machine they softened up her look a lot.

True, r82. If you look at photos of Whitney before Clive Davis gave her a makeover, she was really dykey. Robyn was an obvious lesbian.

[quote]Remember when everyone said Paula Deen deserved a pass because her views and experiences were a reflection of her age and her generational demographic.

No, I don't remember anything of the kind. I remember a lynch mob calling for her head. No matter that it was 30 years ago, Paula had once uttered the word "nigger"and deserved to lose everything. And she did.

The difference between the two is Paula sobbed in public more than once, apoligizing for what she'd said, and begging for forgiveness. Cissy, by contrast, remained - as one poster aptly desctibed her - "proudly, defiantly homophobic." Unapologetically bigoted, even when speaking about her dead daughter.

So I have a suggestion: Instead of trolling a gay site, take your collection of Cissy Houston gospel CDs and stick them up your ass - the perfect place to store shit!

Do I have to throw out her disco CDs?

^^ apologizing

R85 Stick that up your floppy gash. There's plenty of room.

I agree R81, big closet queen Luther Vandross continuously hired Cissy. She liked the money it gave her but she never grew as a person. I absolutely loathe Cissy Houston.

I have to say I am totally floored that Cissy remains such a bigot to this day. While I have enormous compassion And understanding her, I shudder at her minions working their poison endlessly into the conversation about Whitney.

The family approved biopic will dictate the progressive worlds attitude to Whitney's mother. If she erases or degrades Crawfords pivotal role Or continues to deny their love - all bets are off. Crawford may stay mum, but LGBT people have seen enough of this shit to last a lifetime - Especially in this day of Cheeto/Pence bans and bigotry - true forward thinking Christians are STANDING UP FOR ALL PEOPLE. Frankly Cissy wants a world of compassion for her kids, most of us generously feel her sorrow - she needs to walk the 2 way street.

It was obvious that the beginning of the end was when Robyn Crawford left in '99, because she couldn't take it anymore. After that, Whitney went completely off the rails, did drugs non-stop, and the next 13 years were just incredibly sad.

I wonder if Madge watched the docudrama. Probably too busy.

I've never had much of an emotional connection to Whitney, but this documentary was moving. Her music's not for me, but I see the appeal. She was special.

I think it's possible that Robyn and Whitney were lovers, or Robyn was in love with Whitney, and Whitney felt safe and loved without there being a sexual component. No one knows but Robyn. I hope Robyn's happy.

Really interesting documentary.

I was surprised that Whitney had been doing drugs years before meeting Bobby Brown. He started drugs because of her and she started drinking because of him.

Also it's pretty clear from the doc that she's a ghetto girl through and through. She was pretending to be a classy chick for the media

R92 Whitney was a very successful model, the first African American to grace the cover of Seventeen Mag and others. She performed in some of NYC's best clubs. She was very very confident and professional for a young woman. She was that classy chick - why couldnt she dress down and chill without being racist about it?

Forgot how pretty she was and ugly Bobby Brown is. She was homely as a kid singing in church, but was beautiful early in her career. I loved it when she didn't yell/sing: I preferred her vocals in Shoop, I Will Always Love You and My Love is Your Love more than her earlier songs like The Greatest Love of All. Anyway, something fell flat for me in this documentary. I wanted to see more of her drunk and high. Also, wanted to see more of her with Robin. No hugs or kisses at all?! There was a lot of talk about substance abuse and her love affair with Robin, but not enough visuals to make it feel real. Tons of her and ugly Bobby though.

[quote]I wonder if Madge watched the docudrama. Probably too busy.

Does it matter? Do you think Mariah watched? Janet? Belinda Carlisle? Debbie Gibson?

Her godmother Aretha???

Finished watching tonight.

I'm glad Robyn now has a partner and a family. She came off as the most level-headed, sympathetic person in the whole thing.

I'm in the biz. I attended the AMA's years ago. Just as the show was to start, Whitney and Bobby came stumbling in and collapsed into their seats. They were a mess.

R97, did you by chance overhear them discussing dookie bubbles?

Isn't Whitney's brother Michael a druggie too?

I'd watch it if it were called, "Whitney Houston: I Gotta Be Me!"

I am sure Cissy is a drunken mess. Fonzi Thornton, Luther Vandross' BF hired her for the gig with Aretha at Letterman and she can't even remember her lines.

Where is Dionne with all this shit going down?

I may get slammed for saying this but I came away with the feeling that Whitney was a real bitch

R103, no one will slam you - but she was not a mean person at all. Just troubled.

With the exception of Robyn and a couple of others, the family of Houston and Brown's came out looking really Awful in this. My heart goes out to Bobbi Kristina. History was repeating itself.

[quote]I was surprised that Whitney had been doing drugs years before meeting Bobby Brown. He started drugs because of her and she started drinking because of him.

Whitney had been a recreational drug user throughout the 80s (who in the music business wasn't in the 80s?) but she'd managed to keep it under control. Once she hooked up with Bobby, her drug use escalated and by the mid-90s she was a full-blown addict.

I should add that before Bobby, Whitney's drug use was limited to snorting coke. Not that snorting coke is a good thing, but it's a world away from freebasing, which is what Bobby introduced her too, and what was her downfall. Once you start smoking that shit, it's all over for you.

I thought that it was her older brother Gary who got her hooked?

Is Robyn interviewed in the doc? Or does she just appear via archival footage and tge recollections of others?

It's just archival footage. Robyn has never given an interview, as far as I know. I wrote upthread that maybe she's waiting for Cissy to die, and then she'll talk.

[quote]Where is Dionne with all this shit going down?

I don't believe that Whitney and Dionne really saw that much of each other.

Whenever you saw Whitney and Dionne photographed together, it was always at some awards show or Industry event. I don't think they hung out together much in their private lives. It's possible that Dionne wasn't aware of how bad Whitney's problem was.

R 94 Sure because gay and Bisexual celebrities always want to kiss and caress same sex lovers in public, esp in front of cameras. In 1980's,90's thru2013 wouldnt affect the male or female fan base at all! The stupid is astounding with folks like you - including people that knew her and use this line.

[quote]Robyn has never given an interview, as far as I know. I wrote upthread that maybe she's waiting for Cissy to die, and then she'll talk.

I think she should write a tell all now while Cissy is still alive.

I remember when Whitney's career started and some people in the press said that her mother was very dominating.

Clive Davis' influence and his straight washing of her image should also be discussed. As a homosexual himself he should have helped Whitney.

I think Whitney really didn't want the career, at least not as big as it became. She didn't want to be a movie star, yet after the Bodyguard's unexpected success, that's what her family and Clive wanted. I think she was just a down home girl who liked to drink and smoke weed. She was expected to continue to achieve and the pressure was just to much; she used coke to try to cope and became a hard core addict.

I thought there would be way more Scissoring Scenes- I was really disappointed & felt it was very dishonest and inauthentic!

This article goes a very long way to explaining why Cissy and her gang of church haters continually demean Robyn by accusing her of everything from being her "drug dealer to her assistant." Bottom line Cissy may have picked some of her music staff, supervised Clive - but it was Robyn Crawford that shared the dreams and strategized with Houston from the time they were teens together. Also there is no one more invisible in the African American community than Lesbians - DL men are always welcome in the choir after all! Cissy Houston, no matter her pain and heart wrenching loss is a disgrace for continuing to not acknowledge Crawford's critical role in her daughters legacy. Apparently that drives Cissy's unrelenting hatred for her more than anything. IT's only 2017 people.

R116 I mean did you ever see them kiss?? Show me the photos! What is really immoral is the people that bearded for her, set her up with men Vicariously gossip about having done that and then suddenly suffer amnesia when the topic comes up.

Cissy supervised Clive?!

R119 Cissy, her father, lawyers reviewed Clive's contracts.

Cousin Dionne has released a statement:

Here's a clip from the Oprah interview. Cissy in all her homophobic glory.

she was just a hood junkie

[quote]“I had a bad feeling about that child from the first time I saw her,” she writes. “There was something about the way [Robyn] carried herself, a kind of arrogance, that I didn’t like [….] As I would later learn, she was also gay [.…] I felt like Robyn could influence Nippy [….] I didn’t want her to lead my daughter to places that I didn’t think were good for her.”

Whatta cunt!

Seems to me unbeknownst to Mama her brothers had that square checked already. Crawford if anything kept her daughter away from the trouble until the tours started. Also elsewhere i believe it was noted that her mother controlled who she was permitted to be around.

Didn't the bodyguard say that Whitney just didnt want to stand out and was very low key until Brown? I think one of her oldest friends said that Cissy wanted to blame every single thing that happened to her daughter on Crawford- Ironic isnt it?

Meanwhile just block the racist at R123. Probably a Garland/Streisand/Grande fan.

Whatever the case, Whitney flew off the rails after Bobby entered her world. Once Crawford left her life for good, she lost it. The crazed addiction just exploded. For years, she still looked like a million bucks and could still sing - but eventually she just lost it. Crawford was seemingly a very positive force in her life; Bobby was not. I certainly do not know enough to blame Bobby - but the timeline can not be denied.

Whitney admitted she was a junkie in a 2004 interview with Sister2Sister magazine.

Whose bright idea was it for Whitney to marry Bobby? I haven't watched this yet and I don't know if Robyn could've prevented Whitneys decline. But it seems that Whitney would've been better off with Robyn in her life. Why did Robyn leave her life for good?

Robyn left because she got tired of seeing Whitney doped up; there was nothing for Robyn to do but save herself, which she did.

2004 might have been one of her periods of sobriety. Anyone familiar with the complexities of recovery would say that admitting you have a problem is a good first step. Be real, it isnt going to happen with just one or 4 rehab stints, Five would be more realistic.

Also very few people understand that only a relative can seek legal remedy and demand someone "go to rehab." You simply cannot "make her go to rehab" unless you have a court order as a parent or immediate family member. So anyone that slams Crawford for that is simply stupid of the law.

r127, I wanna see the receipts.

You can't forever blame the mother for the downfall of the child. Whitney Houston was a grown woman, at a certain age you are responsible for your own mistakes. Yes Cissy is a cunt, yes the family is full of leeches and hypocrites. But if you are dumb as a door nail, as Whitney was, you will dig your own grave with trashy lovers, bad friends and too much drugs, pills and booze.

Good on Robyn she quit when it was still time. She could have been dragged into the whole drug circus too.

R128 Did you miss the part where Brown constantly put her down and damaged Whitney's self esteem? I mean she had that with her mother all of her life that was pretty apparent from Cissy's comments alone, not to mention her producers and friends that make that point pretty clear. Robyn was the only one building her up - while they were tearing her down.

Brown was bipolar untreated and a fucking nightmare - please review the "These are my niglettes" part with Crawford and I think that was Whitney's Agent. That is him in a GOOD mood. Can you imagine being around that BS all the time? He like Cissy wanted total control over "their girl" and Whitney clearly knew that she absolutely didnt want that option - so she and Crawford remained inseparable. Seems that he whored around in front of her on the tour, embarrassing the hell out of her, until she finally made Robyn leave.

WTF with this idiot Brown? Bad enough Cissy was a vicious homophobe that hated Robyn for holding her daughters hand up to SuperStardom. But bullying man child Brown?

R132 is the "Whitney was dumb" racist troll. Perennially needy for attention.

You think you are smart for getting involved with the guy who's only claim to fame was making a sex video with Kim Kartrashian?

Ray j was her drug connection in LA. I don't believe for a second he was her boyfriend.

Bobby Brown was a total nightmare, and he wasn't even attractive. WTF did Whitney see in him? His constant belittling of her was his way of trying to control her - lots of men in fucked-up relationships do this to their women.

What Whitney should have done was keep her mother at arm's length - Cissy was WAY too involved in her daughter's life. That guy (forget his name) in the documentary said that Cissy was jealous of Whitney because she had the big career that Cissy never had. I'm sure there was a lot more to it than that, but that was a big reason.

Jeezus the stupid... RayJ was a cute hot in the moment Boy Toy she felt she needed on her arm to be relevant. He was nothing to her. Show me a female celebrity that hasnt flirted with that common calamity.

Cissy AND Bobby both were jealous as Hell of her success. And they were the two closest individuals in her life. Recipe for disaster. Jealous or not, they certainly loved spending Whitney's money however.

R 128 Both Whitney & Crawford appear to be pretty smart. It was apparent that unless she somehow went back into rehab and distanced herself from both of her brothers it was going to be tough. Crawford could have gotten her in - with Brown out of the picture. (According to that personal counselor she was ready and 3 mos sober when he got her high again.) IF Houston had a few mos w/out Brown under way she could have then slammed her brothers with demands. Crawford would have been the ready and willing Hammer.

R140 Amen and pass the collection plate. Crawford was her sanctuary. And abused by both of Whitney's tormentors.

I thought Whitney would improve after the divorce but she didn't.

She did, went to rehab, sobered up and tried to get her voice back. Gary pushed her into touring according to her voice coach - coach specifically told everyone that she wasnt ready. Clive also said he didnt want her touring either. Money. Was the issue.

How does Katie Couric come off bad in the documentary?

Oprah did an excellent job in that interview of letting Cissy hang herself. She oh so carefully brought up the lesbian rumors and said if that was the case would it bother you. (this was after the death mind you) Cissy could have easily brushed it off or said I don't know BUT no, she came right back with a bitchy sounding Yes, it would bother her. Her tone was like of course it would bother me if my darling Whitney was that awful thing.

I didn't know she overdosed on Waiting to Exhale but I had heard she was a complete mess on The Preacher's Wife the next year and Penny Marshall and Denzel had to do all they could just to get her to stand up and say her lines. (I guess that was kind of the end of her film career.)

That "I made her" comment was even crueler than when she said it would bother her if she was a lesbian. Cissy had an enormous voice, but contrary to Whitney she had no idea what to do with a song or a melody. Listening to Cissy Houston sing is as if she desperately tries to prove to you she has vocal prowess, but not like she is serving the song. She is a bit like Patti LaBelle in that regard, they both butcher every song with excessive hollering.

Whitney could just sing effortlessly well in her prime. There is a youtube tape of a SNL rehersal where she is singing "I'm Your Baby tonight" and is clearly taking it easy while they fix technical stuff but she sounds flawless.

What was the "I made her comment" ?

I didn't see the doc or able to read this whole thread. TIA

Such a shame about Whitney's film career - she was really very good in Waiting to Exhale. I had no idea that she was so fucked up during that filming. Not to mention, she looked fucking incredible. I remember thinking that she was going to be huge (she was already a music industry phenomenon) as a legit movie star. And then.......chirp, chirp, chirp... Nothing ever happened. It all makes sense now, but I was certainly confused at the time.

Oh, and Cissy was never a Whitney. Never was, never could be. Whitney is up there with the top 3 or 4 singers of all time. Cissy was lucky to even get a paying gig. They could never be uttered in the same sentence.

Whitney,Bobby and Robyn(although a bit of a control freak) came off very well while Cissy needs a house to fall on top of her.

I don't understand what Katie C did that was so bad.

call me r152 I'll explain.

R144 Pat wanted her cut as Whitney's manager, so of course she had to tour. Who cares that her voice wouldn't hold up, Pat certainly didn't.

Who is Gary?

I never knew what a good hearted person Whitney was until I saw this movie the moment when Booby is telling her their daughter is getting a chin ( I don't get it. We all have chins) and then Whitney starts crying and says she worries about Bobbi because she would have it hard being a star's child. Like she knew how some of you bitches would say mean things about her looks.

And yet she never even bothered getting that child's teeth fixed. She and Bobby were probably too busy smoking crack and getting drunk.

Really enjoyed this doc in a sad sort of way...

I've told this story before, but years ago (1997-2000) I worked at a five star hotel in Santa Monica. The month before the Grammies (can't remember which year), Whitney and Bobby checked in. They had two different suites. He was the most annoying guest ever. He and his crew were loud, drunk, horrible. She never left her suite (or barely did) and would only order, via room service, spoons and baking soda. Total junkie. But by all accounts, according to the room service guys, a sweetheart. They stayed for weeks, which we all thought was odd. Not sure what that meant.

I had Robyn and Whitney multiple times in F/C on my flights between ATL and EWR in the very early nineties. There was no question they were lovers---they showed quite a bit of affection towards each other(remember, this was way before camera hones, and even A list celebs used to drop their guards on flights in those days.)

I was so glad to hear someone finally read that horrid Leolah Brown for the rat trash she is/was. I can't tell you how many black females have her back. It is crystal clear to me that she was a money grubbing trouble maker from the start, and she continued her antics all the way through to the end of BK. I also flew Bobby Brown sans Whitney a couple of times. He is very charming and not as coarse or unintelligent as some here seem to think. Of course that is when he is on his best behavior. He has a delightful sense of fun, and like all bad boys, he could easily charm the pants off you if you're not careful. I am in no way giving him an okay for all his awful behavior and his habits. I just think that my first hand insight MIGHT help just a touch to explain how in the blue hell they ended up married.

Cissy was lucky to get a paying gig as a singer?! Let's not get crazy now.

I actually didn't care for this documentary. It didn't tell me anything I didn't know about Whitney already. And I didn't like how they inserted reaction shots from different performances and contexts. I found it a bit tabloid-ish especially when they used the National Enquirer pics of Whitney's supposed drug den.

I was surprised to learn about the OD on the Waiting to Exhale set. Why not interview Angela Bassett or Forest Whitaker or Loretta Devine?

I know Robyn Crawford won't speak about Whitney or be interviewed, but it would be the Holy Grail to get her to talk about Whitney.

Maybe Robyn is holding out to tell her story in a book ($$$). Why give out all the info for free?

I don't get the sense that Robyn would do that. She loved Whitney and she still seems to be protecting her even though Whitney is gone. She is not a viper like the Houstons are. I think Robyn would have written a tell-all by now.

The Houstons are utter trash, Cissy included.

Bobby and his family/friends were such parasites, the doc made it clear how Whitney was supporting so many people who were just using her. This is such a common theme among big stars, going back forever. Why do the stars allow it to happen? I just can't imagine having people in my life leeching off of me like that, it would be like "GTFO of my life, right now!" I don't know, I just can't understand why so many celebrities allow themselves to be taken advantage of like that.

R157 Brown was so insecure in the face of her talent, wealth and career th one thing he had going for him was that their daughter was indisputably his with that issue. Whitney probably would have fixed her daughters smile, her own teeth early on were beautiful. His manhood would have been insulted and I expect his verbal abuse would have been awful.

IF Crawford does anything it wont be while Cissy is alive. She spent her life with Cissy's jealous boot heel on her neck. She doesnt have to write a book either. A simple, well thought out, bookend to her statement issued when Whitney passed is all it has to be. Her tribute to Whitney was heartbreaking and the most lovingly eloquent tribute Whitney received.

Her silence speaks volumes of love, but speaking truth to bogtry also sets her Lover Free from the sneers of an equally cruel and mocking world, brutality of a segment of society that doesnt believe the pain of the closet is real and that Lesbian Women of color should be simply destroyed..

As a mother herself, Robyn surely understands that she would never force a child into a miserable marriage for her own self esteem.

The lesbian rumors were out there long before Bobby Brown. Whitney having no personal life, no dating men, had a lot to do with it. The Randall Cunningham dates were exposed by his gf as being a set-up, and don't go near that "dating" Eddie Murphy bullshit.

"Whitney didnt need bullet bras" - no she had breast implants

I don't know what planet you're on, R18, Billie Holliday's voice was destroyed beyond recognition by drugs and cigarettes.

Cissy is from the old school, and believes that people can "turn gay." Her bitterness and resentment of Robyn Crawford comes from this. Robyn "turned" Whitney gay. If it hadn't been for Robyn, Whitney would've been 100% straight, as far as Cissy is concerned.

As crazy as that sounds, a LOT of older people still believe this bullshit.

Hey R168 A lot of old people believe that?

I invite you to visit Diary of a Hollywood Street king and click on ANY thread which contains gay subject matter. 100% of those posting there, male and female do not believe anyone is born gay.

Anything I've read on Cissy during her days with Sweet Inspiration shows her to be a bullying control freak. She seldom let the other singers decide anything and could even get a bit threatening if she thought one of them was getting out of line. She sounds like a nasty hag...

Interesting, because without exception it seems that Whitney's colleagues from her tours, lifelong friends are the first to tell you that she was incredibly generous, always helpful, loving even, a consummate professional that went beyond remembering birthdays and such. Her philanthropy to political issues always impressed them too.

LGBT issues? Well that was half her band, many of whom she apparently hired from her church. She didnt need to be outed by NYC activists - she was doing the work. She was also extremely supportive of trans issues in her personal life.

It is probable that to get Robyn to leave, Whitney's people paid her off. Part of the deal would have been a promise never to write a tell-all book or give an interview on Whitney

There are ways to do this. She certainly can make a statement like her eulogy. There are many people that can be called upon to renounce their own implicit bigotry in the matter also. The complicit "straights" own their part in this woman's suffering.

How long were Whitney and Robyn a couple? The Oprah interview really showed how awful the Houstons were.

They say how much she LOVED Bobbie Kristina, but also said she didn't see her for MONTHS at a time and TRIED to talk to her 3 times a week on the phone. Oh well.

[quote]I had Robyn and Whitney multiple times in F/C on my flights between ATL and EWR in the very early nineties. There was no question they were lovers---they showed quite a bit of affection towards each other(remember, this was way before camera hones, and even A list celebs used to drop their guards on flights in those days.)

Interesting, r159. Thanks for sharing some real gossip.

Whitney and Robyn also used to go to Catch One, which was the big black gay/lesbian dance club in L.A. in the 1980s and 1990s. As you said, it was well before camera phones, and Catch One was hardly a place where paparazzi would hang out.

[quote]Ray j was her drug connection in LA. I don't believe for a second he was her boyfriend.

I doubt she needed anybody to score drugs, besides officially he was her boyfriend. That clearly means she had no problem being associated with a trashy nobody who slept with Kim Kardashian for a cheap PR stunt. You can't get any lower than that.

She was so incredibly dumb! Robyn really dodged a bullet.

I don't think Whitney and Ray were an item. How did she go months without seeing Bobbi?

Whitney had her daughter enrolled in school, I expect that is why she wasnt always on the tour. Besides she already had one child to supervise, that would have been the guy she was arrived to that was sleeping with all the dancers in a bid to get rid of Robyn. She wouldnt bring her child around hi for that I am sure.

* the guy she was married to that was sleeping with all the dancers

R179 Why wouldn't she bring her child around that? She had no problem bringing her child around drug use of all kinds, and if you believe the chauffeur, her and Bobby were smoking crack in the limo with Krissy sitting right there.

You can see in the documentary that even as a very young girl Bobbi Kristina loathed her father. She cringed wen e touched her and turned her head and wiped her face after he kissed her. Poor kid probably witnessed so much abuse.

Whitney being gay stories started really early. I think her career began in 1985 or so and by 1987 there were stories that she was in a love triangle with Kelly McGillis and Jodie Foster. (that sounded sort of hard to believe at the time but since McGillis and Foster are now out, it seems possible.)

I definitely remember the marketing powers that be at the time soon after her first huge album trying to link her romantically to Michael Jackson (now THAT was funny) and Eddie Murphy and likely others. I doubt that she would have been so hassled for being single had she not been so stunningly gorgeous for one (looking like she did and being single was an enigma in those days of Madonna having a different boy toy each week) and certainly enough people from her pre-fame days who knew the dish about her and Crawford. I still do not know if she was gay or bi, but we all know that she most certainly was not straight.

At 52 Whitney should be producing, mentoring up and coming singers, occasional stints on "The Voice' with a very attractive wife or GF On her arm. Still on the quiet/private side. Probably Robyn, a couple of kids.

The real reason Cissy is so hard over on hating Robyn via her minions, she is obscuring the power that Houston and Crawford had together - the perfect match that with Clive's sponsorship & machine, with Cissy's lifetime of vocal instruction and strong staff @Nippy. Inc they scaled Global Success. Win or lose it comes down to yr intimate partner's ability to nurture the artist and provide emotional support. She was on top with Crawford - and tanked when the jealous loser came on board.

Damn I can't get Showtime.

You're welcome, r186.

Bless you r187...you're precious! 🤗

r188 choose the Openload link, you'll get a couple of popups but it loads fast.

Patti Howard must have forgotten about Diana Ross being at the top of the pop charts.

Whitney's brothers were also mooches and freeloaders. Did they even have jobs?

And Donna Summer as well, r190.

I made her, I taught her everything she knew. I am the reason she became a worldwide sensation.

How miserable and bitter Cissy must be right now...her final years won't be kind to her. It HAS to occur to her that she played a role in her daughter's death. Her attitude certainly helped her down the path of destruction. Bobbi Kristina too.

While Donna Summer and Diana Ross were stars, they didn't command the world audiences like Whitney did

Diana did have the worldwide success and was even nominated for an Oscar.

R194 I think this might be incorrect re BK - she was trying to do the right thing for the young woman. I recall watching "On my own" the Houston family disaster - and Cissy clearly stated that guy had to go/tossed out after Whitney passed. Not giving him a small paycheck and sending him on his way.. That wasnt her fault, but it could also be blamed on Bobby who just didnt fight enough to show his love for his daughter for the few years she had left.

I didn't find Whitney to be appealing in this documentary at all. Her voice sounded bad in the late nineties. She had talent but wasted it.

R187 Thank you, you are a peach for this.

Waiting to Exhale was one of the most eagerly anticipated films, a big hit at the box office. A sequel was awaiting Whitney's approval.

I can't see the older chunky Whitney being in the sequel to WTE.

r201 post your photo, fat whore.

More like Waiting to Eat.

The documentary really illustrated what a total fucking loser Bobby Brown was. It's a shame that out of all the men Whitney could've been with, she had to choose that useless idiot. The concert footage of Bobby taking the stage (at one of Whitney's concerts) and "singing" was just embarrassing to watch. And then you had people talking about how he was always putting Whitney down (out of jealousy and a need to control) and just being an asshole to everybody. Cissy apparently never voiced any objections, I guess she felt that as long as Whitney was with a man - any man - it was better than being with a woman.

Cissy didn't want her with Bobby either.

Shame on Cissy. Shame.

R195 Donna Summer was big all over the world. She was selling out huge venues from Brazil to Italy to Japan well after her US fame was waning.

Today on The Talk, their even-fatter version of Sherri Shepherd (Cheryl?) was going on about how Cissy Houston and Shirley Somebody were so sensible they could bring world peace or whatever. Such a cunt.

R207 Cissy and Shirley Caesar? Shirley has always been rumored to be gay herself.

Whitney with uber cunt Kim Burrell.

Barf!!!

R102 She was too busy smoking weed to care.

Bobbi, Dionne, Cissy with Kim Burell

Hypocritical assholes, they know the industry wouldn't support them if gay guys weren't so much into the black divas.

I think someone up thread said this, but Bobby is embarrassingly bad "singing" on her 99 tour. Awful.

She probably was constantly high days before she died. She even visited Kim Burrell's church in Houston in February and looked completely smashed and out of it.

"Whitney will never be fat."

r213 Whitney looks high AF in that photo.

[quote] Anything I've read on Cissy during her days with Sweet Inspiration shows her to be a bullying control freak. She seldom let the other singers decide anything and could even get a bit threatening if she thought one of them was getting out of line. She sounds like a nasty hag...

Cissy had a difficult life. She lost her parents at an early age and was raised by her older sister, Lee, mother of Dionne Warwick. She built her livelihood, and her reputation, by being a superlative session vocalist. She supported a whole household for decades until Whitney's ascendance in the 80s. No one among us has perfect parents. They can only give what they have. Cissy only knew how to provide and protect. She did not know how to love and support her children unconditionally.

Pet peeve: Maybe one of you fussy queens have already noted this but we're currently in EDT not EST. You bitches do this all the time when carrying on endlessly how verklempt you are when a Joan Crawford film is being screened on TMC. If you're gonna carry on and alert the gay masses as to when a major cultural event is to occur, get the fucking time right. Just use ET ( or CT, MT, PT) if it's too hard for your simple mind to figure out. Christ Almighty- is it rocket science???

Dionne and Dee Dee (Whitney Mk I). Dee Dee always credited Cissy as a mentor when it came to Dee Dee's recording career. God knows what support, or lack thereof, Cissy gave to Dee Dee re her sexuality. I believe Dee Dee was on heroin at one point and her singing voice was mostly shot by the 80s, if her two albums of the period are representative. I believe she also moved to Atlanta and that she lived with a girlfriend. She lived til 62.

Her sweet personality when she started was an act, as soon as she became successful she let her bitch flag fly

She was always sweet, she just just had an enormous amount of pressure placed on her from multiple avenues. What a hard life her last 20 years must have been. Yikes.

R213 She looks like she's on heroin in this pic.

R216 That point has been made many times in other threads. There are many adults that had hard lives as kids but they also can heal thru their own children. Cissy undoubtedly had huge pressure on her as the bread winner - working mother. So she doubled down in the spare the rod spoil the child dept - quite proudly. Prob the bigger her daughter got the more fearful she would become an embarrassment over her GF.

There were quite a few scenes edited from the Tribecca Festival one was LaVar saying it was crazy to see Cissy walking through the house yelling "Homosexuals homosexuals homosexuals when you have 3 houses with kids that are addicts! I mean Lady get your priorities clear."

R213 perennial Whitney hater you cant tell the diff between weed and smack? But unlikely she was on either ifthis was right after a service in the church hallway.

I never said she was on heroin R223, judging by her squinty eyes she most likely just smoked pot.

Heroin definitely doesn't look like that.

Or any opiates for that matter.

[quote] Whitney and Robyn also used to go to Catch One, which was the big black gay/lesbian dance club in L.A. in the 1980s and 1990s. As you said, it was well before camera phones, and Catch One was hardly a place where paparazzi would hang out.

I saw Robyn at Catch One several times. I never saw Whitney there and never heard that she was there.

[quote] While Donna Summer and Diana Ross were stars, they didn't command the world audiences like Whitney did

I think Whitney sold more copies of her debut album worldwide that Ross and Summer's entire 70s catalogues. They were successful but Whitney's commercial success was record-breaking.

The Merv Griffin Whitney debut was on tv this week, probably to coincide with the release of the documentary. Whitney performed solo for the first song, but mama Cissy managed to horn in on the second number.

After reading a little about her background at R216, I have a more sympathy for Cissy. Still, in the Oprah interview, regardless of her negative words, her facial expressions and attitude alone reflect an Eve Plumb-level of bitterness.

I do wonder how comfortable Oprah felt about delving into Whitney's sexuality, considering Oprah's own experience with speculations about her sexuality.

It is not Cissy's fault. Cissy is no more homophobic than my own mother. Cissy did not think that pop superstardom and flagrant lesbionics could co-exist. The black church/gospel world has always been full of closeted homosexuals. Cissy knew them all. Cissy's fanbase was mostly gay. Cissy was friendly with many gays in showbusiness.

The suggestion that Whitney is dead because she could not be her true self is misguided. Openly gay people struggle too (i.e. George Michael). Cissy was not the perfect mother but she is not the reason Whitney followed a path of self-destruction.

R229, of course she was part of the self-destruction. Judgmental parents have been an issue for a huge percentage of us....period. Whitney clearly had addiction issues but her anxieties added to them no doubt. It would be ridiculous to think otherwise. Let's say that she was not even bi and was a Kinsey 0 - Cissy still drove her crazy and was a very overbearing, controlling stage mother who demanded a Hell of a lot out of Whitney for decades. That stress manifests as anxiety which in turn fuels addiction issues. Easy equation.

I don't think Cissy's homophobia was the only reason for Whitney's downfall. It was more like that the whole family was full of hypocrites and leeches and simpletons. Black churches don't support reasonable thinking and sophistication. Whitney grew up in an environment that doesn't support you being a clear eyed and discerning person. Her drug addiction and not being able to get off drugs had a lot to do with how she relied on only her faith. She was an incredibly dumb person in that regard.

R230, Whitney could have left disapproving mom behind -- just as she did in her latter years as her addiction escalated. All of us gay folk have to separate ourselves from disapproving family. Easier for me than Whitney, I understand. I agree that her mother undermined her self-esteem. The commentary in this thread suggests that Cissy's disapproval of her sexuality was Whitney's principal issue, it was not.

R232, I agree with your reasoning now that you expounded further.

R232 Whitney believed in praying away the gay. How did that work any better for her, than say Mike Pence as he unleashes his suppressed self on the poor gay suffering?? She loved Robyn and the security she had with her, IT was gone after that. I believe Crawford, she wanted a child, that is far more a biological imperative than marrying Brown. She suffered a decade of press harassment for Robyn, but for a child she mad the ultimate compromise.

Too bad Whitney was not a good mother, she was stoned most of the time and her child was put with Gary and Pat. And when she was with Whitney and Bobby she Krissy saw the drugs and the chaos. No wonder she only lived three years past her mother.

[quote]Whitney believed in praying away the gay. How did that work any better for her, than say Mike Pence as he unleashes his suppressed self on the poor gay suffering.

Who is defending Mike Pence here?

R232, I'm aware of nothing in her documented history that would suggest Whitney was a "pray the gay away"-type. She had no 'inner' conflict, and did not feel her soul was in jeopardy. She felt her image was in jeopardy. She did not want to disappoint family, friends and fans by being a lesbian (or bisexual). She flatly denied being lesbian and never identified as lesbian. All while Robyn was up in her cooch. I believe she lived as she wanted to live and she didn't want to live as lesbian or bisexual. She professed to be religious but she didn't waste any time praying the gay away when it could be better spent getting high.

And all of those 15/20 years of being high she still sang like an angel and looked like a million bucks. God love her, she made it work until she just could no longer hold it together and then surrendered to the drugs and the leach individuals that she dealt with day in and day out. I remember as a child thinking that she was sweating a huge amount singing at all those award shows and public events. I did not know what that meant at the time, but damn did she NAIL IT every time - for years. Her voice and beauty was a gift from the heavens - none (well not the general public) of us even knew what Hell she was living - and yes, much of it was self-induced. I give her props for holding it together as long as she did. Much like Micheal, she was a consummate professional until she just waved the white flag and gave up. He had many of the same issues and demons. After that, her facade had been tarnished (with her "family" and friends and fans) and she no longer cared to expend the massive amounts of energy it took to maintain it any longer. Her looks and her voice plummeted and wasted. She gave up and gave in to the addiction in a way that she had never allowed before.

And I do realize that Clive forced her to keep it together as well.... I am just saying that at some point when enough dirty laundry had been aired, she said fuck it.

R222 Why would Cissy be running through the house yelling homosexual? It doesn't make sense. I would like to see the edited out parts.

r240 I can

NEGROES IN THE HOUSE! NEGROES IN THE HOUSE!

R234 Gay behind closed doors, I agree she didnt give 2 fucks but was ground down by Mom's antagonism. The urge to pray away addiction is what turned deadly. I do think she was getting it together for the ultimate rehab though.

R222 the speaker was being fascitious with her expression. "Her mom was like Homosexuals, Homosexuals, Homosexuals!" If one thing went wrong it was Robyn',s fault a door, anything - it was ridiculous. I was like HEY! YOU have 3 kids in houses that are all addicts! Lady like, get your priorities in order!"

Another edit was the remark by her Record Company guy, starts kind of salaciously "Whitney was a Lesbian, yeah." And then he went on to The piece that aired.

The talk of this is ridiculous and stupid - what is heartbreaking is that her parents made her miserable over it - and sadly for the most part her fans would have crucified her for it. Also that it removed all senblence of safety and security from her life that Robyn gave her. That is just horrible and ultimately what killed her - being in his full time care. Surrounded by all greedy graspers when she was most broken and hurting.

Whitney idolized and loved her mother but Cissy was disapproving and ultimately not supportive of Whitney.

The fact that Cissy wrote a book not long after Whitney's death just proves that Cissy wasjust another freeloader and exploited Whitney.

Cissy may not have caused Whitney's death or demise but she played her part. She is culpable.

R224 - Yes, I agree with all you wrote except the part about Cissy exploiting Whitney. Cissy wrote a book to control the narrative and to salvage Whitney's reputation. She is a proud woman and did not want her family to be further shamed. There was money involved but that was not a motivation. The estate has done very little to exploit Whitney's brand and catalog since her death. There is significantly more money to be made off Whitney but no one is doing anything. That restraint is due to Cissy -- Whitney's sole heir and beneficiary of her estate.

She's a homophobic bitch and I'll be really sad if Dionne goes first.

Did Cissy know Clive was gay? So is every male stylist who worked on Whitney?

Plus the gays kept Whitney's career going.

R245 Cissy wrote the book because she needed the money. Krissy was Whitney's sole heir, and the money Whitney had been giving to Cissy stopped after Whitney died. She was pretty harsh about her daughter in that book, called her a heifer and that she could be mean, and once again took credit for every talent her daughter had. She didn't know Krissy would die 3 years after Whitney and that money then would never be a problem.

Who gets all the money, now that both Whitney and Bobbi are dead?

Cissy extensively worked for Luther Vandross as a backup singer, he absolutely loved her voice and was best friends with her and Dionne. I am sure everybody knew Luther was gay. When the money was good Cissy could always suppress the homophobia.

R249 The money goes to Cissy and Whitney's two brothers Michael and Gary.

Cissy's own fans on the cabaret circuit were mostly gay. Her homophobia was selective. She loved her gay fans but didn't want her daughter to be a lesbian. Every gay man has a Cissy Houston in his life -- either an unaccepting parent OR an accepting friend who would go apeshit if her own child were gay.

After Whitney died, there was a hits compilation that was released and then a cheap live compilation with a DVD that looked like YouTube rips. No reissues or deluxe sets of her albums (which fans want). It is a little strange that so little has been done with Whitney's catalogue in five years.

1987's Whitney could have been reissued for its 30th anniversary.

Clock strikes upon the hour, and the sun begins to fade

Still enough time to figure out how to pray the gay away...

So Cissy and Thelma Houston weren't related at all?

No relation, r255.

is this available free online?

R187 Has a link to this documentary.

Didn't Pat Houston try to send a Whitney hologram on tour?

On the heels (vs Grifters heals) of Michael Jackson hologram, yes, she did. After a simple tryout it was yanked. Currently there is a Grammy exhibit of Whitney's slated to open in the East Coast Grammy Hall of Fame @ NJ Performing Arts Center.

The Whitney Houston Grammy exhibit here in L.A. was lovely but modest. Hopefully they can make a grander effort in her home state.

Agreed R 261

I wonder if Hollywood and the world at large would have been kinder to Bobbi Kris had she looked like her mother and not her father.

I remember hearing the Whitney-is-a-lesbian rumors way back in 1987. I didn't believe it back then. But I definitely believe it now.

Whitney was even asked about it on TV. That was not common. It still isn't.

If Bobbi Kris had looked like Whitney, EVERYTHING would have been different.

Hell, if BK had looked like Cissy, it would have been different. She literally got the worst gees in the world. His entire family is unattractive and nuts.

Did Whitney nail any female celebs?

Whitney is fascinating but this documentary is really shitty. Nick B remains a hack. How does he get funding for this garbage?

r267 there were rumors that back in the 80s Whitney and Jodie Foster got together on the DL, but god only knows if that really happened.

I thought it was Kelly McGillis and that Whitney stormed into one of their trailers to confront woman-stealing Jodie?

R265, she was asked about it all the time. It only stopped when BK was born. After that, I think it was only brought up 3 times - the Out interview about Pride and the Wendy Williams fight. Diane Sawyer mentioned the rumors briefly in her interview and MADtv had some fun with them, but all in all it was pretty amazing how quickly all the speculation just went away.

R269, it didn't. There was nothing to suggest Whitney had even met Jodie or Kelly. Interestingly (kinda), Robyn's wife was once Jodie's publicist or something. Small world.

I think interest in Whitney's love life would have been greater had she paraded boyfriends around or made a big deal about being man crazy. Unlike Madonna and even Mariah, sex wasn't really what Whitney was selling.

Now that I think of it, I can't remember Whitney ever dating a man (at least publicly) until Bobby Brown, and she was close to 30 by then.

She was dating Eddie Murphy which Murphy denied after her death, because Whitney was so tainted by then.

R274 No the NY papers had Murphy in the news for multiple arrests soliciting transsexual sex workers. Definitely not Eddie.

R268 Face it, the doc isnt at all the problem - for you it is that Robyn is treated with the respect, support and the pivotal role she played in her life As "Whitney's Girl." To several people in here Whitney was a friend, to others she did business with. Her place in Whitney's life, childhood friend and lover of 9-11 years is recognized.

DL is an LGBT website and most NYkers are well aware of their life together. No one is going to put up with Crawford bashing.

The fact that Whitney was SOOOOOOOO beautiful yet never had a dating life up until Bobby started the rumor mill rather early on. In the 80's, being gorgeous and also single was unheard of. Her lack of sexual attraction for the opposite sex was seen as alarming and strange. Again, Madonna ruled the world and could talk of nothing BUT her sexual attraction to men. Whitney was a model and stunning - no one could get their head around her being single for so long. Clive and his PR team did his best, but yes the question always lingered in the public's mind. She was beloved yet always questioned due to her lack of interest in men.

R268, you have me mistaken for someone else. It's a shitty doc because it bounces around from sources that were clearly chosen to support Nick's preconceived conclusions.

I wonder who it is on this thread that you're mad at...

R278 is in response to R276

I remember that there were 3 friends of hers that specifically talked about their relationship in the film. One man from Arista actually said yes, she was in a relationship, there was a woman and then another former employee. Why is this so shameful that anybody would want to start fighting about it? Sheesh has nothing changed? I saw the first show I remember the man specifically saying "yes she was a lesbian."

It is sad that anyone would treat this as something Whitney should have been ashamed of, and idiots start fights denying anyone's sexuality like it is a crime or something. No wonder there is so much hate in here for Cissy. If anyone is a Whitney Fan and Lover of her music they have surely witnessed the Robyn hate on LSA. Its like Jeff Sessions time over there.

Yes. That fan who has the pic/gif of Whitney in a turban from the Bodyguard (Run to You video, I think) is particularly loathsome.

However, Whitney played into the bullshit. The doc had an excerpt - I think it was the Katie Couric interview - where Whitney mentioned that people think Robyn is a lesbian because of her frame etc., implying Robyn wasn't a lesbian. Bullshit.

Whoever advised to Whitney to keep addressing it was a fool. It wasn't like she was ambushed time and time again on live television. They could have insisted XYZ not mention the rumors.

There are a few people I know of that do discuss bearding for Whitney - which by any definition is one of the saddest goddamn things ever. They are also some of the loudest Robyn critics, and bashers of gay people since forever. Remarkable when you know they are at least former? Members of the LGBT community and Or have gay relatives themselves that were part of the circus.

The biggest liars actually are the ones trading on their closeness to the family. Total crypt keepers. When you are a colossal enabler of Whitney's self Loathing it is really best to whisper about it in the shadows, fling shit on anyone that makes a movie, or wants to have a humane sensitive discussion of how this all impacted her remarkable like and talent.

Anyone, anytime that acts like even mentioning the two names together as a happy couple is a crime against humanity - deserves to die in that Hell they love so much. Gay haters and self loathing gender benders all - exploiting threads like this. Unbelievable.

That's why I hope Robyn leaves a memoir behind - a posthumous release, I wouldn't care.

From the archive footage in the documentary, Robyn was an obvious lesbian. No question about it. It's weird that people still deny that she and Whitney were in a relationship for years, it was very clear that they were lovers. Bobby hated Robyn and the feeling was mutual.

If it hadn't been for Bobby, Whitney might still be alive today. Such a sad story.

Robyn is a saint. And she has been tight lipped about the truth - what a lovely friend. She LOVED and STILL LOVES Whitney. I do too. That woman is one of my favorite singers and while I never had the opportunity to actually meet her, I was at the hotel the day/night that she passed. I honestly had know clue that she was there until the huge insanity took over the joint. It was a sad day for the world, but it was not much of a surprise to be honest. Sad but true. What a gorgeous woman; what a gorgeous voice. She followed the James Dean, Marilyn Monroe route. She just passed after her looks and voice had failed. 10 years prior she would have become iconic, but her bad press and addictions ruined her rep in the same way that MJ ruined his. But she WAS GORGEOUS and she WAS THE VOICE. No one can best her.. EVER.

But why did Robyn stay until the turn of the millenium? I know gay men and lesbians are a different breed but even so...

Chaka could best her on I'm Every Woman. Chaka actually sings the bridge live.

Whitney sang the bridge once, when she recorded it. After that she lipped it.

The home video footage made Whitney seem pretty childlike, even a little immature. It did seem like she never had the space to mature into womanhood. What she was taught was all about appearances. It reminded me of that Carrie Fisher quote, something along the lines of "we're a family built for show".

The quote from her in that stiff wig (sidenote: Whitney's 90s wigs often were very middle aged looking. It was bizarre) about not liking the person you've become. I wonder what she meant by that. I think people oversell the whole "White-ney" thing - not her hurt at the Soul Train awards but the idea that her music was almost offensive to black people etc. pre I'm Your Baby Tonight. So what didn't she like? It's easy to say she meant sexuality but I don't think she'd allude to that in an interview. Was it the "selling out" perception?

Yes, but can someone be called The Voice if they can't sing one of their own songs fully, even in their prime?

Let us just say that there exists or existed a handful of women who in their prime were the best of the best singers on earth. Whitney is not only one of them, but also arguably the best of the bunch. I don't believe in silly contests when discussing the greats (Rothko verses Picasso) - so let us agree that she is equal to that handful of 4 or 5 and give them all their due...

R290, you obviously were in a comma for15 years. Whitney NAILED every song at every event.. What rock were were you living under? She only lapsed toward the end.

Never singing the bridge to I'm Every Woman live IS a major thing. I think it shows that Whitney's prime began to falter as early as the first half of the 90s. Chaka was probably doing the same shit but for some reason the notes seem to have always been there.

Was Ellin Lavar responsible for those awful wigs she wore in the 90's? They were hideous.

The Houston and Crawford story speaks to the power of black female love (intimate or platonic) and the heights such unions can scale. In the absence of meddling family and pop music industry forces, my bet is that Nippy and Crawford would still be steadfast compatriots.

As for Houston, her final album (I Look to You) features “Like I Never Left,” a haunting song for which she claimed a writing credit. In part, the lyrics read: Did you ever wish that you could take back something that you did in your past/ If it wasn’t for me I know what we had was definitely gonna last. I admit that we say some things we don’t mean when we’re mad/ But I’ve realized that I’ve been foolish, I never should have turned my back. Cuz it’s a cold world when you’re out there all alone/ So many times that I wanted to just pick up the phone/And tell you ooh baby, baby I miss your lovin’ so/I ain’t holdin’ back no more, your girl is comin’ home. (And I want you to love me) Like I never left.

My heart goes out to Bobby Brown as he copes with the catastrophe that has befallen his daughter. But part of me is hard pressed to believe that he was the inspiration for Houston’s swan song.

[quote] She was dating Eddie Murphy which Murphy denied after her death, because Whitney was so tainted by then.

After her death Jermaine Jackson confirmed that they had a romantic relationship while he was producing her debut album, and he was married at the time.

It has been stated thousands of times: "Before Auto-Tune, there was Whitney Houston"... It is a fact that still holds true today.

How do you know Jackson is lying? They're talking into a microphone.

Hyperbole. Whitney did not invent singing in tune. And there were singers with wider ranges.

Yet she was always considered the best. And her sales and global appeal backed up that fact. I grant that there were many great female singers, but Whitney really ruled the world for a decade or so. Well, Madonna actually did, but Whitney's voice was far superior and she was seen by most as "the voice".

Sales don't back up shit about vocal talent. You mentioned Madonna, who's never even learned a solid technique to be called "a professional singer". Paula Abdul had massive success for a time as well. She might be the nadir of that time.

Oh JABBA/Janbot (R301) showed up to tear down an actual icon. Check the Guinness World Records to school this fool. SOOO pathetic. Madonna is top sales, Whitney is top awarded. It's the truth JABBA - look it up you fat bitch - it doesnt take more than 45 seconds. Eat another bag of Doritos..

R294 clearly must not mean this iconic breathtaking image of Whitney.

R296 Because always belive PR generated magazine stories over close, trusted friends of hers that are highly regarded professionals in Their fields. After all SHE selected them to work for her now didnt she? And they remained friends throughout her life. Seems to me that Whitney was pretty clear bout the priority Robyn had in her life when it came to Narada, LaVar, Howard, Arista press producer - she was demanding respect, recognition and mention be made.

Clearly she kept things tight with her GF during 9 years of marriage too - that shows remarkable love for Robyn and determination that she remain with Whitney in an exclusive "power couple." For 9 years Brown wanted to be that one - she wasnt giving it to him. Clearly the only way Brown could sever that tie was by publically embarassing Whitney during a tour. Whitney gave in despite it being extremely obvious that Robyn was popular & trusted by all and he was merely tolerated.

The question is, why did it take 9 years in a hellish marriage - more than half duration - to breakup with her most trusted love? It is as if she instinctually knew nothing waited for her in a life without Robyn. She was right. The shear desperation of that guy could hardly have taken a lower road. Brown's destruction of Whitney's character ramped up the minute she left.

R 294 Shooting the messenger is last resort of the desperate.

It was interesting (and now I understand, very smart) that Chaka Khan would always sing I'm Every Woman whenever she appeared on TV during the height of Whitney's version.

This way, she kept reminding people it was her song. and not Whitney's.

[quote]Paula Abdul had massive success for a time as well. She might be the nadir of that time.

I agree. Paula Abdul was just atrocious. I couldn't believe such a shit "singer" with such shit songs was so popular, however brief it was.

Ain't Nobody cares about Chaka Khan. No Showtime biopics, etc. LOL

Chaka Khan has always been so underrated. Her music, especially her music with Rufus, is sublime.

It's not coincidence that Whitney's downward spiral kicked into high gear as soon as Robin left. Robyn went her own way in 2000. A year later was the infamous Michael Jackson concert with an emaciated Whitney, looking totally cracked-out. A year after that was the infamous Diane Sawyer "crack is whack" interview. That whole decade was not about Whitney as a great artist, but as a drug addict. What the documentary didn't go into was that when Whitney was at her nadir in the 2000s and living in Atlanta, she would visit crackhouses in the worst neighborhoods. One of the most famous women in the world, sitting in a downtown Atlanta crackhouse with all the street people. That's not a rumor, it's fact.

Whitney just seemed to give up after Robyn finally left, and Bobby and his scumbag family of leeches really took over after that.

Whitney should have had Bobbi Kris taken from her while she was frequenting crack houses. How pathetic.

It was a big deal when the unedited images of Whitney at the Jackson thing were published. VH1 blurred her chest for the TV broadcast but still pictures clearly showed that she was emaciated. The doc showed the edited VH1 footage only.

It was also a very big deal when her hyped HBO concert was canceled at the last minute. HBO was out a lot of money and her reputation took a big hit. This wasn't covered at all in the doc.

R310 - both very true. I love Whitney more than anyone, but her downward spiral was so evident by then to everyone and their 75 yoa mother. The Michael Jackson tribute was the beginning of the end. Whitney was always a very thin, beautiful women - yet at that event, she looked like a horrifying corpse and if memory serves - acted like a complete jaw-grinding crack addict. It was painful for her fans to see and even more alarming for those who had not been following close enough to have watched the subtle signs that occurred maybe even ten years prior - only to see this scary, skeletal train-wreck on stage for the world to judge. Her PR should have cancelled that appearance. It was horrifying.

Very Bizarre the way the Whitney Haters seem to forget that she produced both a film and album post MJ appearance. Bottom line is her last album debued at #1 Top of the Charts. The film she produced "Sparkle" actually had favorable reviews and had That accident not occurred, would have resulted in a very very decent profitable run with her PR attached to it.

Whitney was deeply deeply loved and extremely popular no matter how she is dragged by other jealous, yet mediocre pop stars.

Well, no one loves Whitney more than I do (I have been a rabid fan of hers for decades). That appearance just was not good for her image however and I think that it was the first time that the public began to take notice. Whitney was and is beloved - do not get me wrong. I think that her fans were just worried for her; that is understandable. She confused many because the image that she so painstakingly portrayed was a facade and not what she was actually living. She looking like a million bucks in that Diane Sawyer interview which occurred after the MJ performance. Like any addict, I am sure that she had her ups and downs. I truly do not believe that there are many Whitney haters out there - she posthumously remains one of the very best (argued to be THE BEST by many) vocal talents of all time.

R312, what the hell are you talking about? Real Whitney haters don't give a fuck about her condition. Those who were genuine fans or at least recognized her exceptional talent talk about her appearance at the MJ tribute out of legit concern/sadness for how bad her drug abuse became. The woman was a serious addict and that is a tragedy only surpassed by her death. Of course she was successful in many ventures--we wouldn't be talking about her if she wasn't.

R313 You think she looked like a million bucks in that Diane Sawyer interview? She looked terrible, you need new glasses.

Whitney looked strung out AF in that Diane Sawyer interview.

She looked good in the interview compared with how she looked at the MJ tribute.

MJ tribute:

R315 - to me, she looks like a fucking supermodel in the Diane Sawyer interview. And I do not wear glasses nor need contacts. I have 20/20 vision. Yes, at other times - she looked like Hell. Personally, I thought that she appeared at least to be the gorgeous Whitney that we all loved. In her prime, no one looked better or sang more like an angel. She was one in a million and will always be a legend. No one can ever take that away from her.

R314 - AMEN and thank you for your candid thoughts that echo my own exactly. We ALL loved her - addict or not. But we also had the right to be concerned. And no other woman can sing like Whitney. Her talent and music (not to mention well-documented beauty) will always live on....

Totally agree R317.

I think the makers wanted to make a film about Robyn and Whitney but they couldn't seal the deal by getting Robyn to talk so they had to surround it with other stuff, but it's obvious the film is about Robyn and Whitney's relationship. Getting an interview with her would be the Holy Grail, but I have to respect Robyn for not talking. Maybe it's part of a deal that was made. Part of me thinks Robyn wouldn't talk regardless but I don't know if she would have accepted hush money.

I am intrigued, though, as to why Robyn left. Even the film cannot answer that question.

In the pic at R318 you can clearly see the blur effect on her chest added by the photographer to conceal her protruding ribs so that she wouldn't look scary skinny.

[quote]She followed the James Dean, Marilyn Monroe route. She just passed after her looks and voice had failed.

You don't know much about James Dean, do you?

r321 it's believed that Robyn left in 2000 because she could not longer deal with a) Whitney's escalating drug use b) Bobby, who Robyn always despised, and his family of leeches and c) Cissy and her blatant homophobia.

Robyn had to walk away to preserve her sanity and get on with her life. It's a very sad story. And we all know that Whitney hit rock bottom and stayed there for the rest of her life, right after Robyn left.

Does anyone know what Robyn does for a living theee days?

i just watched. Wow, this doc really has the dirt on the whole situation. I wonder if the Houstons tried to stop the release. They, along with the Browns, come across are pure trash. Even Wihtney's dad, whom she idolized, turns out as a big POS at the end.

R325 She is a mother.

Robyn just spoke in this film.

This program about Kevyn Aucoin, makeup artist, will be on LOGO TV (gay television for the straight lurkers) Thrs night. Robyn asserts her relationship with Whitney "He met Whitney and I ...(meaning our lives)". She goes on to say "he was like part of OUR FAMILY..." The gays together, our families of choice, how we talk. Intimacy, funny gay stuff we do with only our closest friends.

This Robyn interview is very very recent and she makes clear her intimate concerns of her GF emotional state and the caution Robyn surrounds her with make clear her priorities were with Whitney feeling safe. Interesting that is what Narada had to say about Whitney is that to get the best sound he made it easy feeling or set the mood lighting and she responded well as an artist.

"My name is not Susan" Recorded '89 "I'm Your baby Tonight" released as a single & video 1991.

I have always thought that Crawford should maintain her loyalty to Whitney - but I feel that given the unrelenting hate and bigotry of some in the black community - all reinforced by the shit of the GOP/Churches and Trump she must speak now. She wont write a book, nor should she. A simple statement like her Eulogy - even shorter - is perfect. There is no longer a threat of betrayal - but there is a lesson to be learned about compassion and love for one another. Certainly once she comes from the shadows - the reckoning of reality may even give the hater Cissy cover to loosen her stance to one of tolerance and love before she passes over.

It really is that simple.

Better link to the Kevyn Aucoin program. It is really nice to see Robyn find a presence in media, face it she was partner to the most iconic singer in modern history. They were an amazing power couple and deserve to recognized as such.

Robyn's departure from the tour in 2000 seemed abrupt. I do wonder if there was a specific thing that caused her to walk away. Just watching Bobby was exhausting. It's a shame that Whitney married him.

It sure looked like Brown was humiliating Whitney with dancers in the doc - plus factor in so many people reported he was constantly enabling her deepening dependency while Robyn was fighting that front too. She looked exhausted and still performed so intensely, i guess he Ratcheted up the fights and tension. Whitney prob couldnt take it any more - and Robyn was being kind.

R326 Her dad was apparently a good guy but his health failed (he was an ass about Robyn except when it fit his needs I think). Her contract came up for renewal with her Album company. An acquaintance of hers that had also become a drug dealer and offered to quiet the rumors on the streets about her and Bobby. This guy went to her father, reported "what he had done to help."

Her dads health deteriorated in that period, the contract signed her as the highest paid singer of all time - 100Million worth. This moron convinces her Dad that Whitney couldnt have done it without them - and they should receive a big cut. Her Dad was hospitalized delirious and in pain Probably slowly fading and this ridiculous suit was filed by that criminal stooge. It was nothing and simply designed to humiliate or extort money by this third party. Whitney was upset for sure - who wouldnt be?

i think you're explaining away the father's role in that shakedown much too readily.

'Why would you want to continue to hurt me?' Dionne Warwick SNAPS at Susanna Reid for asking her about her late cousin Whitney Houston... leaving GMB presenter speechless

Just saw this recently, very sad but also very frustrating to watch. Whitney looked for love and friendship in all the wrong places. I am sure her mother was largely responsible for her low self-esteem. Cissy seem pure evil.

I am glad Robyn is happy and content now.

After watching the documentary, I've come to realization that Whitney was a nasty person and didn't do anything with her fame and fortune to help other people, at least not in a significant way. She was too busy looking for her next fix.

She also couldn't sing well post-Bodyguard.

R 336 is a baiting troll. But here: A Pediatric unit that to this day supports extreme medical emergencies, including the only pediatric liver transplant unit

NAACP hundreds of thousands of dollars in the ‘80’s/‘90’s

The only US musician to 1st lead the charge to refuse to support apartheid South Africa

3 night concert HBO Whitney at Constitution Hall - $300,000 dollars to the Children’s Defense Fund

Many Childrens agencies in the NYC/NJ area.....also she quietly supported many LGBT groups - including being personally tight With many people in this community - particularly the women that would go on to become the 1st WNBA teams in NY. & NJ. She was very supportive of friends struggling with Gender Dysphoria also - lending financial support.

Watching the documentary, there can be no question that Robyn was a stone-cold dyke.

Robyn was pretty damn gorgeous when she femmed up, tall lithe, quite the looker - a counter part to Whitney. Two stunning women under one roof - hella lot of beauty - both of them beautiful inside, kind, Very well respected by all who encountered them - in their shared personal life as well as the business. Their relationship spanned 9-11 years. WHile not without conflict it was nothing like the violence with Brown and his constant demeaning of Whitney.

Robyn on the other hand cherished her lover and built her up every day. Thus the rocket ride to The global superstardom. Whitney’s talent, Crawfords nurturing and Cissy’s schooling.

I do know that Bobby Brown degraded Whitney and made her feel unworthy.

[quote]For example if you read through the Aaron Carter threads there's this tremendous outpouring of empathy and sympathy.

Not from me. He was the Danny Pintauro of the 1990s: famous for his sexuality and not for actually having talent. Aaron's "music" is unlistenable, and [italic]Who's the fucking Boss[/italic] is unwatchable. And these days they both look like used-up old methheads despite being a decade apart. But since they're both white (yes, Italians are white as are all European ethnicities other than Ashkenazi Jews), the underlying mode of thinking behind that attitude is that when whites screw up it's their own fault, but when blacks screw up it's black people's fault. Now that's what I call racism.

I loved that people said Cissy was such a nasty controlling cunt.

I remember when Whitney became famous, early on people always mentioned that Cissy was like that. Then the press stopped talking about it. I wonder who ordered them to stop. Probably Clive bc he pushed for such a clean image of Whitney and a controlling mother would have soiled it.

Terrible family, full of hypocrites and greedy hangers on, trashy, nasty, homophobic, narrow minded and mean spirited.

I forget his name, but I loved the guy who called Cissy on her homophobic shit: "All three of your kids are on hard drugs, and your main concern is that your daughter might be gay? What the fuck is wrong with you?"