Westworld Season 2

That is the worst stuffed tiger that I had ever seen.

Where did the tiger come from? I hope they have Roman world with tigers and lots of gay hotties.

....

Hope the show tightens up for season 2, I enjoyed the first season but the writing wasn't nearly as intelligent as they thought it was.

Amen. It was downright confusing at times. And I can live without seeing Thandie Newton naked ever again.

I missed the first season, is Ed a robot?

Ed is human.

[bold]‘Westworld’ Creators Tease Medieval And Roman Worlds In Season 2 Of HBO Series[/bold]

[quote]On Day 2 of the 2017 Vanity Fair Summit, Westworld creators Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy hinted at the possibility of the introduction of new theme parks in the next season, specifically Roman World and Medieval World, amusement park zones which were included in Michael Crichton’s original 1973 movie. At the top of the panel discussion, Nolan and Joy were asked why they left out Roman World and Medieval World in season 2 with Nolan responding “We had to save something for Season 2.”

Agreed, r4. They telegraphed the Bernard thing in the first episode!

Trailer.

Couldn’t get through season 1. Plodding.

The man-in-black twist and the Bernard twist weren't well written. The entire storyline with Thandie Newton's character and the lab techs was poorly written.

Still, I look forward to the show being back.

[bold]SXSW: 'Westworld' Panel Teases Shogun World, Elon Musk Makes Surprise Appearance[/bold]

[quote]Westworld famously had its series premiere twice delayed as producers had issues figuring out the arc of the first season. In a bid to prevent that, Nolan and Joy have said they wanted to have all the episodes written before starting production. [bold]"We weren’t really interested in doing a TV series," Nolan acknowledged of the show's structure. "We wanted to treat it more like a film franchise, like an installment. And the only way I know how to do that is to change the game — reinvent the show — each season."[/bold]

Big words. I just want it to not be a borefest like the first season. And I'm sure Bloys was breathing down their necks as well; this was supposed to be the Next Big Thing for HBO, after all.

[quote]Newton was candid about her struggles through the second season. "I was fucking angry. I was really cross. They forced me to do shit and I felt like a fucking child," she said on stage. "By the end of the season, I was really humbled. To be forced into a situation that is uncomfortable and then to come out the other side emboldened, is humbling."

Thandie's awesome. That is all.

Any gays in this? I remember the first season was boringly hetero only.

r14 They're either villains or perverts who finally get what's coming to them. Because of course.

R15 Yeah, that pretty much says this show is hetero male fantasy... The first season made very little impression on me (other than the plot was convoluted), so it will be more work than it's worth to bother with season two.

[bold]Westworld team breaks silence on mysterious season 2[/bold]

First look.

[quote]“The scale of season 2 is just nuts, literally right out of the gate,” says Jeffrey Wright, who plays the park’s tormented science chief Bernard Lowe. “It’s so much more expansive, it makes the first season look like a genteel kitchen drama.”

There is no significant gay presence in season 1 r14, though season 2 might be better on that front, who knows.

Full trailer.

Hardly any Ben Barnes, boo!

Nice cover of "Heart Shaped Box," though.

Jesus, R13...what kind of Lars Von Trier level bullshit did they put her through?

It doesn't make sense to me that Ben Barnes would be in this season much at all. Seems like that plotline has run its course.

I actually agree, R22. I don't think it makes narrative sense for either he or Jimmi Simpson to appear in this season. But if they have 'em, I want HBO to use 'em.

21, running around stark naked all the time for one. And the location is extremely cold/hot and really dirty.

Thandie should raise a fuss about how she was expected to be naked so often, but this was not asked of her equivalent male co-stars. She might get some traction with that in #MeToo world. And maybe we'd get better male nudity in Westworld.

Yep r25. "Westworld" was very guilty of doing lots of making their women get naked with little nudity from the guys by comparison.

[bold]Westworld Creators Offer Season 2 Spoilers Video If Reddit Wants It[/bold]

[quote]It creates a larger problem for us, though, in terms of the way your guesswork is reported online. ‘Theories’ can actually be spoilers, and the line between the two is confusing. It’s something we’ve been thinking about since last season. The fans of Game of Thrones, for instance, rallied around and protected the secrets of the narrative in part because they already knew those secrets (through season 5).

[quote]We thought about this long and hard, and came to a difficult (and potentially highly controversial) decision. If you guys agree, we’re going to post a video that lays out the plot (and twists and turns) of season 2. Everything. The whole sordid thing. Up front. That way the members of the community here who want the season spoiled for them can watch ahead, and then protect the rest of the community, and help to distinguish between what’s ‘theory’ and what’s spoiler.

[quote]It’s a new age, and a new world in terms of the relationship between the folks making shows and the community watching them. And trust is a big part of that. We’ve made our cast part of this decision, and they’re fully supportive. We’re so excited to be in this with you guys together. So if this post reaches a 1000 upvotes we’ll deliver the goods.

I hope the Redditors vote for it. People being overly wimpy about spoilers bugs me.

They released the video! It's 25 minutes long.

Tell us what you think of it.

Pretty funny, I was wondering what they actually had up their sleeve.

Anyway, what I honestly hope for out of this season is less of a focus on "what a twist!" Shyamalan antics and more of a focus on good writing. Twists for the sake of twists does not a good show make.

I agree R30. The show last year was all about solving a puzzle and trying desperately to create "water cooler talk" moments at the expense of any character depth or genuine story. I was only invested in the Billy/Logan sideplot because I'm a Ben Barnes troll. Assuming that we'll see less of them this season, I'll give it a pass.

B+ for the first five episodes. I wish they'd just let us binge this.

I went to the premier last night at the Archlight. A dazzling evening and ERW is shockingly tall in person (granted with heels). At first someone said to me "she looks like robin wright and brie larson had a kid and its her" lol.

Thandie is tiny. And looking old.

Jeffrey Wright is regal and extremely handsome and has a light that shines around him. What an actor and presence he had on the red carpet.

JJ looked like a fucking geek in a flannel and jeans not even dressed for the event.

r33 What about the [italic]premiere itself,[/italic] bitch?! You left out the most important part of all! Who the hell cares about JJ's flannel shirt?

God, but this place is too gay for its own good sometimes.

[quote]Thandie is tiny. And looking old.

She is 45. Fairly old to be playing this prostitute role where she constantly had to be running around naked.

The red carpet

There was a lab tech in season 1 who has been the only gay male character on the show. By this show's logic, the only gay male character was a necrophilic pervert wh enjoyed having sex with the sexy "host" Hector, the big evil gunslinger when Hector was turned off. Naturally in the Season Finale he had to be brutally stabbed from behind by a reanimated and naked Hector--the gory stabbing from behind offered as Hector's revenge for being anally violated.

The gay lab tech prepping to molest Hector.

r37 Yup, that was the absolute worst and completely tone-deaf. But I'm waiting for season 2 to air in full before calling the writers homophobic. I'm just full of grace like that.

Why you forgot the great representation we got with the Ben Barnes character!

He was supposedly bisexual, we could tell because in that one sex scene there was a male host hanging out on the other side of the bed far away from the action so it doesn't look too gay of course.

HBO subscribers loved the show. Remember, they're nasty bc of GOT withdraws. HBO is thrilled. It's actually a good and intelligent series, 2nd to GOT.

I'm so ready, it's been a long time since the Season 1 finale.

Amazon doing their own Westworld, and with the Westworld showrunners to boot.

Just how smug does Nolan look in this photo? Resting smug face, that one.

[R43] I love his wife, Lisa (she is in that pic too). She is a brilliant writer and co show runner. This is good.

Sunday's premiere will run a little over 70 minutes and the fourth episode will be longer than an hour as well.

They [italic]really[/italic] want us to discuss this on Monday, don't they?

NYTimes says the strengths and weaknesses of the show are the same as season 1.

[quote]Don’t expect too much improvement too fast from Westworld 2.0. It’s still overly focused on balletic blood baths and narrative fake-outs, and much of the dialogue still sounds as if it were written as a tagline for a subway poster, like Dolores’s “I have one last role to play: myself.” But Westworld remains a glorious production to look at, and there are stretches where it feels invigorated by its new, expanded world--freer to breathe, relax, invent.

[quote]Dolores’s “I have one last role to play: myself.”

I winced, cringed, and groaned at the same time. So kudos to the writers for bringing that reaction out of me, I guess?

R40 - he was far away, but not that far . . .

I want me some James Marsden and Luke Hemsworth.

r48 Oh, my loins, that whore extra looks a bit like Jamie Bell, doesn't he? That makes for such a hot mental image.

I sure hope Casey Bloys gave the Nolans some notes for the second season. Something along the lines of "Your portrayal of and squeamishness around homosexuality is retrograde. You are regressing from what GoT did several seasons ago. My husband agrees. Fix it."

It is true r50. This shows treatment of 'the gay' in season 1 made it feel so dated. Not at all what you expect of a "prestige" TV drama in the modern era.

Incredible reactions in the comments to Mo Ryan's review of the first five episodes of the second season. People are having a conniption over her pointing out that this season is about a black man, a black woman, and a white woman seizing power from their oppressors, and that the indigenous and the South Asian characters could have been fleshed out more.

And we here are asking for better homo representation! We obviously still have good old racism and misogyny to deal with first. Even though I don't have much faith in the Nolans to be transgressive (enough), I do hope they lean hard into the messier aspects of humanity. Straight white people can always switch to Roseanne if they want to watch something that makes them feel comfortable.

Anyway, I'm really excited for the premiere tomorrow.

Entertainment bloggers are paid by other networks to take down HBO flagship shows. They tried the same thing with Game of Thrones. The viewership ratings and audience engagement with WW over performed even HBO expectations for the first season.

It is a great show. T he themes, layers and depths that the showrunners are weaving are amazing.

TOMORROW!

Amusing Westworld Yelp reviews

[bold]Thandie Newton Confirms That She, Too, Will Receive Equal Pay for Westworld Season 3[/bold]

[quote]Evan Rachel Wood isn’t the only Westworld actress who has finally been promised pay equivalent to her male co-stars. Thandie Newton told Vanity Fair at the New York premiere of Season 2 that she, too, has been in talks to reach an agreement for Season 3 in which she’s paid the same as her male on-screen counterparts.

[quote]“They’re all happening right now, and yeah, we’re all equal across the board,” Newton said of the ongoing contract negotiations. “It’s really exciting. It’s unprecedented. It’s—goodness; it shatters so much calcified pain, resentment, frustration. It just shatters it.”

[quote]Newton is so enlivened by HBO’s commitment to pay equality, in fact, that she vowed Thursday evening to turn down projects that offer her anything less in the future—meaning that any filmmakers and producers hoping to pay the Maeves of the world less than the Bernards need not apply.

[quote]“I wouldn’t do anything if it didn’t. Definitely not,” she said. “Fuck that. It literally sets a precedent, and [HBO is] leading the way, which is amazing.”

Season 1 doesn't start to get that interesting until about the 4th episode but then it had me hooked. I'm ready for the slaughter of Season 2.

I loved the first season for the questions it explores about consciousness vs subconsciousness vs unconsciousness vs memory vs dreams, how our identities are formed, to what extent our wills are our own vs programming, etc. The violence and who’s-really-a-robot plot twists are annoying, but the philosophy of the show is really intelligent.

Had no idea Rinko Kikuchi would be appearing in this season. Now I'm definitely excited! Fingers crossed it's not (just) a racist portrayal that exoticizes geishas.

Wow you are pathetic r53. You have to believe it is a CONSPIRACY(!!!) than some people think the show was good but feel short of being great.

The problem with these shows is that they take so fucking long to come back that you forget so much of what happened and I don't have time to sit there and binge watch to remind myself of what happened.

I mean it seems like "Better Call Saul" has been off the air for about five years. Why even bother, especially when it's supposed to be a prequel to "Breaking Bad"? At some point, it gets ridiculous.

HBO released a season 1 recap r60.

And I'd rather shows take their time and do it right rather than to rush out crappy work.

R60 one 100-minute feature film usually takes three to six months to film, followed by another six months or more of post-production. These high-quality television shows in my opinion are higher quality storywise than most feature films are. Most scifi in theatres is big-budget CGI action shit with monster robots or aliens chasing people. Westworld is telling a brilliant story. It and Game of Thrones have huge amounts of special effects to pull off on top of telling complex stories with production values that rival big-budget films. I am willing to wait for that.

But they had great shows in the 80s and I don't recall it taking so long to make new episodes.

Can anyone give me a summary? I can’t watch the video (work) nor binge watch season 1, and I really never totally understood. Bernard is a robot, Anthony Hopkins was essentially Frankensteining the robots to become alive through reveries? And Jimmi Simpson is young Ed Harris? And he’s obsessed with recapturing what he had with Dolores or just breaking the game down?

All I care about for the next season is that we get to see more of Hector Eschaton naked and fucking men as well as women.

Let's hope it's not as... dry as the first season. ERW called it a season-long prequel recently so let's see what this show looks like when they actually tell a proper coherent story.

Can't say that I loved the premiere but at least we get a full frontal shot of Lee ( Simon Quarterman).

Can someone explain to me who all the people were at the end in the water? Humans or robots?

Also. Jeffrey Wright is a robot right? The story time jumps with Tessa were confusing - can anyone explain?

[quote]Humans or robots?

Maybe a mix of both. The lingering underwater shot was definitely of James Marsden.

All I could figure is that the Tessa storyline is shortly after the season 1 ending, and then the other storyline is later when other corporate brass come in. I give the premiere a B-. It was often confusing

Hey, it's Floki from Vikings!

Dolores as well, I think R69.

I'm confused. So Bernard is a robot that knows he's a robot but also has the human consciousness of the creator named Alfred(?)... is that what is happening to him? He's walking around all dazed, like he's not sure if he should confess that he's a host and not a man. He's having some kind of flashbacks and shaky hands. When he was "mentoring" Dolores last season, did he also reprogram himself to be able to pass as human?

I enjoyed the season opener even though there were one too many closeup shots of Bernard's face by the time it ended. They were this close to it turning into a drinking game.

Gustaf Skarsgård plays the douchiest douche that ever did douche. How handsome [italic]is[/italic] he?!

Love how they cast Fares Fares as a technician to make that scalping scene less problematic than it was in the first season.

Isn't he just the dreamiest? And his schnozz literally looks like a cock so you know he's packing. Gorgeous hair as well.

[quote] Gustaf Skarsgård

Is that Alex and Bill's brother? Wow, the whole Swedish clan is taking over.

This show has a Hemsworth and a Skarsgård

r76 He sure is!

r77 We just need an Olsen to complete the picture. A Fanning would do as well.

The NYT had a recap of stuff about the premiere.

Warning== SPOILERS

So at the very end, Gustaf and his men find a lake or sea that the corporation never knew about and in the sea are floating hundreds of bodies of the hosts, one of them looks like Marsden's character, the nice cowboy. Bernard said he killed them.

Apparently, he killed them in the secret lab that Tessa brought him to and they have a host who is carrying important information---a hard drive that contains videos of blackmail material of the rich guests, supposedly. That seems kind of convoluted to have only one robot carrying that. Anyone know why Bernard had to inject fluid into his artery? I know he's a robot but they also bleed. Some things are inconsistent here.

[quote]Anyone know why Bernard had to inject fluid into his artery?

He lost some of that fluid when he got hit in the head in the barn so he needed to inject it to restore his functions, at least temporarily. I think their cerebral fluid is separate from the rest of the body, a bit like in real humans.

Oh, and I don't think he injected it into his artery. Looked like he went through the ear directly into the brain.

ok, that makes better sense, R81.

I am clueless about the different timelines. Totally without a clue.

r84 I was speculating here just yesterday that they will probably tell a straightforward story this season. How naïve of me. And have you seen the season preview at the end of this episode? Even more timelines!

I think that review in r46 is kinda right... it is so hard to follow this show, even with the recap. I have so many questions . Jimmi and Ed Harris are the same person - but how? There's a time warp on the island too? Where was Jimmi anyway? Dead?

Is Bernard malfunctioning? The clear stuff dripping out of his ear and the hand shaking isn't good - but nobody can tell he's an android somehow even though he's breaking down in front of them (so his masking systems and DNA should be failing as well... right). The clone hosts also see him as human.

Bernard's relationship with Dolores is confusing to me too. Was it Anthony Hopkins that started all this revolution stuff - or Bernard?

The lake with the dead bodies... not sure who those were or what that meant.

The performances by some of the actors like Thandie are great but I don't really know what's going on overall. So that's ONE plot line I can follow. She wants to find her daughter and has memories of her past selves... ok... that's cool. But there are like 20 other plot lines that seem all over the place & very confusing. I watched the recap but did not re-watch season 1.

Jimmi = Ed Harris, not dead. He woke up from the massacre and went back to his place or wherever he lives and met the little boy who is child version of Ford's character ---whom he shot. I'd like to know where Ben Barnes fits in all of this as they had previews showing him interacting with the hosts. Will they show him in the present time? maybe he's the Big Bad of the corporation?

And where is Tessa's character, how did Bernard end up on the beach?

I wish I could just binge this show until having to wait a week for answers.

Yeah, binging would also help to remember how all these plot threads are supposed to link together. Between last season and now, I forgot a lot of things.

So Jimmi entered the place 30 years ago and it was a time jump? Like he was in groundhog day or something? I guess I completely forgot.

Jimmi entered 30ish years ago as a naive “white hat.” His asshole brother in law (Ben Barnes) mocked him for being such a pussy the whole time and told him that the park would reveal Jimmi’s true self. Jimmi was a good guy, but after realizing how he had been “betrayed” ultimately by himself for falling in love with an emotionless robot woman, he hardened. That hardening turned him against his brother in law, who he sent riding off presumably to die, and Jimmi inherited control of the Delos corporation through the family he married into. He became obsessed with the park, and particularly with getting to the secret at its center. He has been punishing Dolores, and possibly pushing her toward self-discovery, which he found in the park. That’s where I see their metaphorical link: both Jimmi/Man in Black and Dolores are seekers, and both found themselves in Westworld. I think Jimmi/MIB has seemed like a bipolar all good/all evil man, but is probably more of a Ford/God type who wants to catalyze consciousness and conscience into non-sentient beings. I think he loves Dolores and everything he is doing is to push her toward full sovreignty. That’s just my speculation now...it may well change over time.

These violent delights...

The drone hosts are very creepy.

This helps a bit.

I like the show but it’s a convoluted mess. The time jumps really detract from any kind of attachment to character or story. It’s just shooting at people and random. And if a robot can endlessly be reprogrammed or replaced, why should we care? And if Bernard can pass a DNA test ... whatever

I'm hoping James Marsden eventually gets naked. I thought all the actors had to sign a nudity clause that said anytime, anywhere (scene related) you'll get naked.

Thanks r89 - one plot line down - 10 more to go...

I'm re-watching S1 since I have some free time anyway. Per the convo above with the gay themes - in the premier episode, one of the female technicians kisses one of the hookers when she's in the lab for repair. I don't remember any MM scenes but while Hector is hot, but he's clearly a top. Whoever is writing this is clueless.... anyone know that twinky lab tech would've activated Hector's erection protocol & ridden his horse dick across the desert.

The link at r92 is useful. I completely missed the pubic area swab & all that goes with it. The "Terms of Service" for park are pretty interesting, especially in light of what happened with Facebook / Cambridge Analytica stuff this year (and Westworld wrote that years ago for S1).

Anthony Hopkins' character was gay and his partner was Arnold. "The board" decided to scrub him from history, in the words of his character. It's odd that in such an advanced / futuristic world, you have a CEO who has to hide his gay partner... in fiction, while Tim Cook is CEO of Apple. So stupid.

I rewatched season one last month because I was fairly lost the first time I watched it. I was surprised at how much I had forgotten, including the fact that Jimmi Simpson was Ed Harris! It definitely makes more sense if you can watch them back to back. I have this problem with Game of Thrones as well. I was trying to convince my household to wait to watch Season 2 but have been overruled.

This was best recap I found of season one for those that watched season one but need refreshing. It tells everything chronologically with no twists. Easy to get.

I also cringed when Dolores said “one role left to play: myself”. That and her & Teddy off in the sunset gazin at each other talking like it’s a soap opera. Maybe I was just stoned but episode one was a bit corny and I loved season one

r98 Yeah, waiting for the end to binge the whole season feels more satisfying but you miss out on the weekly discussion. And then you're pumped up when everyone else has largely moved on.

r99 Some of those lines make it come across as a parody sometimes, although I thought Dolores' speech to those humans she was about to execute was nice. I want the writers to go full Jesus/Muhammad/Buddha with her; just subvert that shit to the extreme. I thought that sea shot at the very end came across as somewhat religious as well. Like if Moses tried parting the seas but failed utterly.

[quote]I am clueless about the different timelines. Totally without a clue.

And that's how it's supposed to be. They are using the timeline jumps as a storytelling device. I actually like it. It makes things a bit more harder to grasp, and in Westworld that seems to work. I thought I might be annoyed if they continued to do it in season two as well but honestly I really didn't mind it at all.

[quote]Anthony Hopkins' character was gay and his partner was Arnold.

You're possibly joking but I've no recollection of that being the case.

I'm watching it, but I know that before its over it'll be LOST 2.0.

r102 This is slightly spoilerish but it was in the preview for the season: we'll get to see past Jimmy going about his business in the city. So it's definitely going to feel even more like Lost shortly.

[bold]Westworld season 2 premiere ratings dip despite positive buzz[/bold]

[quote]The sci-fi drama delivered 3.0 million total viewers across cable and digital platforms. That’s down a tad from the show’s series debut in 2016 which had 3.3 million total viewers across cable and digital platforms. The drama’s first season finale then set another record with 3.6 million viewers (which, more than anything else, suggested season 2 would open even stronger than the first).

[quote]There are a couple mitigating factors. One is that HBO only showed the premiere twice last night instead of three times back in 2016. Another is the show’s longer-than-usual hiatus — the show came back after 16 months off the air. And the Westworld ratings, even the overnights, could grow as the season continues as reviews from critics who have seen the first five episodes of the season have been quite positive.

[quote]HBO points out that Westworld received nearly 80 percent of its viewing after its premiere night, helping lift last season’s overall average to 13.2 million viewers — the biggest debut season of any series in HBO history.

R97, bring us up to speed...where in Season 1 is it mentioned that Arnold and Ford were gay lovers? There were frequent flashbacks of Arnold, sitting at his dying son's bedside and a wife at his side.

[quote]where in Season 1 is it mentioned that Arnold and Ford were gay lovers

The poster was just fucking around.

Wow that was a good recap at r99. Answered everything.

[quote]I also cringed when Dolores said “one role left to play: myself”. That and her & Teddy off in the sunset gazin at each other talking like it’s a soap opera. Maybe I was just stoned but episode one was a bit corny and I loved season one

Let's not forget these are robots who have been living through very soapish stories written by their creators hundreds or thousands of times. Those stories are practically all they've known about emotions, and they are now experiencing some twisted version of them. Even though they've possibly gained a certain level of sentience they are not human at all. Actually my problem with Thandie Newton's character in the season premiere was that she was suddenly too perfectly human-like, and seemed way too complex mentally. Dolores and Teddy are just continuing their doomed love story from season one.

Westworld is not a show without faults. I liked the premiere but there's no denying using time jumps once again is basically just trickery to make the show seem more complex. But like I wrote earlier Joy and Nolan have chosen to use it as a storytelling device and obviously it works quite well, at least for now. Still, it somehow cheapens the emotional experience of the story itself, and I'm sure people get more and more tired of it.

In S1, Thandie demanded they raise her intelligence to the highest level when she woke up in the lab. Maybe that's why.

Yeah, I was also thinking Thandie having her Bulk Apperception yanked all the way up to eleven was what's responsible for her being so different. Well, that and administrative privileges. But Dolores seemingly achieved self-awareness so she might have shattered those limits on her own, who knows.

My understanding with Dolores is that she was basically coached for years and years to become sentient by Bernard. Also, there's that whole (sort of confusing thing) about the fact she was Wyatt in the past - and she already navigated the maze & killed all the other hosts. Perhaps adding the reveries allowed her to access all of that at this point, rather than only the consciousness she has at the time.

Actually, I am confused about how she was Wyatt too... they just kept her brain and made another body?

Some of Dolores' lines are soapish but the even the sentient hosts do still use the lines written for them (like Maeve repeating Lee's lines back to him in the premiere) so maybe she hasn't totally shaken her programming yet.

R111 I thought Wyatt's personality was uploaded into Dolores by Arnold as a means of keeping the park from opening, like they had been working on two separate hosts (Dolores and Wyatt) but only had a "body" for one (Dolores). Wyatt was always just Dolores and the man that Teddy saw as Wyatt in his flashbacks was just a false memory.

If the hosts are humanlikw, they will never “shake their programming.” We are all driven by biological imperatives when it comes down to it. That’s our operating system.

R113 My bad, I think it was Ford that created Wyatt.

This thread is a fucking mindfuck.

R113- I think that might be accurate... though in the recap r99 posted, there's a quick glimpse of wyatt. Maybe it was an imagination or something.

This is why I never watched "Lost" - I couldn't stand the pretzel twisting plot lines. The closest show to this that I liked was Heroes, but that lost its way around season 3 or 4. Battlestar Gallactica (the renewed one) had some twists but nothing like this. There are really good shows like Breaking Bad, the Sopranos, The Walking Dead (until the last season) etc... that have no need for any of this. It's just well written - period. Sci fi can be creepy and twisted and weird and still make sense (Black Mirror, Fringe). Did this writer prove himself / herself in other shows already & now is getting the opportunity to go off the deep end with all these plot lines? The main thing keeping me interested, I think, is the novelty aspect (though Humans is similar), scenery, and many of the actors.

Dolores = Sorrow

Maeve = Ma + Eve = mother/mother of mankind

William =

I miss Anthony Hopkins.

Patiently waiting for Thandie to kick some ass with a katana.

r120 I miss him terribly as well even though his acting is so restrained these days it's basically on autopilot as he's just collecting paychecks. But whatever, he's earned it.

I thought Hopkins was great in S1, not just going through the motions at all. The show does miss his presence.

R101, thanks for the laughs. I wish I saw life through the mind of a simple soul

r123 is SUCH a superior soul!

[quote] Did this writer prove himself / herself in other shows already & now is getting the opportunity to go off the deep end with all these plot lines?

Westworld is using multiple writers but I've understood it's the showrunners Lisa Joy and Jonathan Nolan who create the main themes and ideas. Lisa hadn't actually written that many scripts before Westworld, only a few episodes for Pushing Daisies and Burn Notice, but Nolan's screenplay history includes various movies he mostly wrote with his brother Christopher, like The Dark Knight, The Dark Knight Rises, Interstellar and The Prestige. Jonathan was also the showrunner of Person of Interest. He was behind Interstellar and The Prestige which shows he's apparently loved using trickery, if you can call it that, in his screenplays long before Westworld.

Chistopher Nolan's Memento was also based on Jonathan's short story.

R123, no worries, I'm fully aware I'm an idiot.

My post at R97 is what happens when you combine Soma and Neurontin. I was too embarrassed to come back and admit it, but I will blame it on the drugs.

The thing is... I was rewatching season one and was 1/2 asleep 1/2 drugged, and Anthony Hopkins had a scene where he was saying how "his partner" Arnold did this and that.. and that the company "scrubbed him from history" - like they didn't want a him and his [gay] partner in charge. My brain wasn't exactly on its finest hour when I made that deduction or that post.

I almost even added "it's just more 'gays are tragic' tropes - because of course Arnold has to be dead."

So - believe it or not - that was a "real" post. I just completely forgot what happened in S1 & then started to re-watch it, only to run into that scene.

how did Bernard get access to that secret station when it required a DNA test to get access?

Thandie Newton is EVERYTHING!

Hi, Thandie (r128)!

My guess would be that Ford built some kind of masking systems in him, r127.

It reminded me of Gattaca (the movie) where Ethan Hawke scanned his finger and it came up as Jude Law because he built a little skin pocket and put Law's blood in there.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ WORST SERIES EVER

I DONT GET IT

Stunning how one series has some of the most egomaniacal actors in existence.

On set must be a hoot.

XX R125

Liked tonight's episode better than the S2 premiere. It was less dense and even though there were flashbacks it was easier to follow.

There was also a hint of bisexual Logan.

I am not happy with the editing. If the showrunners are on here, you have to fix this. EDITING is layering, part of the storytelling. It is really bad.

Wow, only two posts about the latest episode. I like the show but it's beginning to look like the show won't be able to offer the payoff people are expecting. I was already wondering last week will there be season 3. Things are moving on so very slow.

Premiere only brought about 3 million viewers. This show won’t last.

(Season 2 ep 2 cocktail scene) If I were the investor asked to guess which party guest was a robot, I would have grabbed Jonathan Tucker and fucked him over the piano.

But that's just me.

Pretty-looking borefest, that's what this show is. Either the sound mixing or the delivery itself was off in this episode as I could barely hear what Dolores was saying at times. And the working room lighting was lethal for Marsden; he looked every single minute of his age, and then some. Finally having some black extras working as technicians was nice to see.

[quote]There was also a hint of bisexual Logan.

Yes, two seasons in and we're still on the level of hints and throwaway lines that can be interpreted any which way. That kind of writing just seems so dated to me in 2018, especially in what is supposedly a prestige TV show. Give me a single good reason why that host girl who Ben Barnes kissed couldn't have been swapped with Jonathan Tucker, or the black guy to whom Tucker was talking.

[quote] Give me a single good reason why that host girl who Ben Barnes kissed couldn't have been swapped with Jonathan Tucker

No good reason; only the reason that trumps all things in Hollywood: Putting the straight male gaze above all other considerations.

I agree with you 100% that this level of lame timidity towards gay or bi representation is undercutting whatever "serious, adult, cutting-edge" cred HBO may have had left.

It was more than a hint of bisexuality. He had been talking to the Asian guy about putting art on the ceiling so people could look at it while they were fucking him in bed. They get interrupted, but when the Asian guy gets up to leave, Logan says something about him coming over to see the Rothko (or some artist) sometime soon. It was a pretty fun/hot/playful and explicit exchange. Of course, Logan turns out to be a drug addict later in the episode...

I too had trouble making out a lot of the dialogue of this episode to the point that I had to turn it up loud. It got better as the episode progressed. Is this like the flashing screen light thing from Season 1 but with sound? I hope not.

I'm enjoying it. I find HBO often has low volume on a variety of programming.

I find it visually interesting but the substance is poor. What is Dolores fighting for? It’s unclear that she even knows, let alone has a plan. Kill the humans seems to be it as far as plot development, with old Ed Harris on a mission to kill the robots. Zzzx

PS, I think HBO is trying to make a series out of a story that wrapped up in Season 1 - all the time gaps are just filler

r143 Dolores is still carrying out the "wyatt" script that Robert programmed before he died. She thinks she is doing this herself, but she isn't. I think that's why maeve was so flippant with her, she knows that Dolores is only half "woke" she remembers her past but is still following programming. Plus maeve is the only robot that knows about the bomb in the vertebra, she knows Dolores and the rest of them aren't getting off the island.

Waiting for a smoke monster...

More Maeve, less mumbo jumbo.

Even though the show is not getting any traction here anymore, I mean [bold]only 14 posts[/bold] after episode 2!, redditers are still working hard to crack the mystery of this season. One theory is that ***POSSIBLE SPOILER**** Bernard's brain was swapped with Teddy's, and it was Teddy in Bernard's body who killed all the hosts.

I can't deny it, all the theories make watching the show more interesting, and a game-like experience in itself.

r147 Words to live by, right there.

"Please fuck me, Mr Barnes. I'm taut all over but especially where it counts. Also, no Irish Curse for me as I'm Romanian Jewish on my mother's side."

Bomb in the vertebrae? Huh?

I had completely forgotten Jonathan Tucker played Tilda Swinton's teen gay son in The Deep End. I vaguely remember feeling bad for finding it hot seeing Goran Visnjic plow his ass. Tucker was around 18 during the filming.

Are any of the bigger name male actors pleasure models in Westworld? I seem to remember they are all gunslingers and tough guys.

[quote]Bomb in the vertebrae? Huh?

I had completely forgotten that even being a thing. Or is it? There's so much information you're supposed to remember from season one that following the show become a bit hard at times. The multiple timeline editing certainly isn't helping that. But I guess that's exactly how Nolan & Joy want it.

Did you watch season 1? r151. Maeve had one of the technicians remove it when she was rebuilt , hence her line last episode of " do you know how many times I died trying to get out of here?"

R150, you gave me a 'bot chubby.

[quote] Tucker was around 18 during the filming.

He was cast at 17 and had a birthday coming up so the production waited until his birthday to shoot the sex scene.

[quote]There's so much information you're supposed to remember from season one that following the show become a bit hard at times

Honestly, I rely on reddit. I can't keep up with timelines and motivations.

I am a little confused about Jimmy... in season 1 he was the naive first-timer & the guy with the dark hair was the one giving him the tour. Now they're portraying him as one of the venture capitalist people who helped get funding for the park, and he seems to have known Delores long before he "met" her in the park (or did he take her out of the park after he met her?)

R156. Jimmy (William) has already been to the park with logan when we see him convince his father in law to invest. William talks to delores sometimes after that, the "you're just a thing" scene. We then see delores at the father in laws retirement party playing the piano.

Logan (Ben Barnes) first got hooked into investing in WestWorld via Delos at the cocktail party (Season 2 ep 2).

Logan took his coworker Jimmy to the park (Season 1 ep 1 etc.)

Jimmy ended up being stronger than Logan (end of Season 1).

Jimmy took over Delos and brought in dying billionaire investor (S2 Ep2)

Jimmy returned for 30 years to decrypt the secrets of WestWorld because he fell for Dolores (Ed Harris as Man in Black), and because he got shut out of owning it.

Hilarity ensues/ensured.

Is that right?

Jimmy married logan's sister, he is not just a co-worker. The dying billionaire is is logan's father. Jimmy has owned the park for the last 30 years.

why people on here keep calling Dolores, "Delores"?

Unraveling the Baffling Time Jumps of “The Reunion”:

[quote] the guy with the dark hair

That's DL Fave Ben Barnes (tm) to you, sir!

Why don’t they ever show Logan kissing or naked with a man? HBO is ultimately very conservative

I will blow my brains out If I see Delores drop that can again in the road. Talk about milking a dead cow - the creative well has run dry after an inspired first season

HBO by itself might not be that conservative but the main audience for this show (as evidenced by comments under any review and on Reddit) seem to be straight white guys on the nerdy side, and HBO is more than aware of that. Or at least they seem to be the most vocal segment, as per usual.

And have you noticed how it tends to only be male bisexuality that gets this kind of treatment on TV? The female variety doesn't really have these issues. The only problem that one has is that it's sometimes shot with the male viewer's titillation in mind.

Anyway, I don't want to give the impression that I'm too bothered by this as I still believe we'll get better lgbt representation in this and the next season. Always the optimist!

[quote]I still believe we'll get better lgbt representation in this and the next season

IF there is a next season. I like the show but so far I've been quite underwhelmed this season. Everything is mildly interesting but it seems nothing really new is going to happen. I'm currently wondering should I cancel HBO since Westworld was the reason I resubscibed once again.

Cancelling the show at the end of this season would be a PR nightmare, probably ending in a revolt. It's better they announce a third season and tack on an announcement that it would also be their last. They can then spend zero money on marketing and it would still be better than pissing off the hardcore Westworld fans. Of course, I'm basing this on the assumption that the viewing figures will get worse each week. Who knows, this just might yet become must-see TV a couple of episodes from now. Wouldn't really bet on it myself, but still.

Officially renewed for a third season.

Of course r167. I don't know why a couple posters earlier were talking as if this might be cancelled, it obviously is not going anywhere.

The numbers are okay but it's obviously not the new parade horse and GoT replacement HBO wanted it to be.

I'm surprised. They don't seem to have enough story for two seasons, WTF will they do with three?

I'm in until the end. It's the only tv show that I currently follow. I'll give Sharp Objects with Amy Adams a whirl in July.

r171 Ooh, Marti Noxon, Patricia Clarkson, Chris Messina... that all sounds amazing, thanks! Amy Adams, I can take or leave, to be honest.

Here's the DL thread announcing that series. I saw a poster elsewhere mention that the novel (not particularly good) is basically a rewrite of Agatha Christie's 'Crooked House', so that's exciting.

We are enjoying the show, and I hear it is planned for five seasons. I love the acting, especially Dolores, and the ratings for Episode Two of Season Two were quite high (97%)

'Confederate' seems to have disappeared into the creative æther, much to everyone's relief. Remember that?!

HBO needs to look for its next long term hit. They had a great run with big hit anchor shows paired with half hour comedies with The Sopranos and SITC, True Blood and Curb Your Enthusiasm, GOT and VEEP, but Westworld and Barry ain't gonna to cut it. Time for some new blood. Well, they still have a HUGE 2019 with Big Little Lies, VEEP and GOT. Skeptical about True Detective because the showrunner is reportedly fucking things up like he did for season 2.

The show was more fun when people had sex for fun. Now it’s just murder after murder

I finally checked out the second episode. I liked it a lot better than the premiere. I'm glad they really fleshed out what happened with the 30 years ago storyline and cleaned up a lot of those loose ends. It seems the writers were listening to complaints about tightening up the writing.

While it is true that Ben Barnes still wasn't able to kiss a guy, it was more than hinting at his bisexuality. My straight friend I watch this show commented he didn't realize the character was into guys, the "hints" in season 1 went over his head but this did not. I do give the writers some credit for reinforcing that aspect of the character.

Also I will give Barnes a little credit, I though his acting was pretty two-dimensional last season, but he was able to imbue a little more life into the character this go around.

His plotline seems pretty finished though, don't know if we will see Barnes again.

R163 I don’t think the storytellers keep showing that scene because they are out of ideas. It’s important to the reality of Westworld: the hosts are programmed and they are oblivious to the repetitiveness of their lives (until they aren’t). They don’t have any concept of life’s tedium until they do. This is all frustrating to us because, of course, it’s all a reflection of human life. Next time you go to work, sut at your desk, sit in meetings during which people throw out meaningless trendy jargon, and repeat day after day as you look forward to the short-lived novelty of retirement (go to store, buy cans of soup, repeat until death), think of Dolores.

R178 He'll be back. There were a few more scenes in the trailers with him that haven't aired yet + he just gave an interview with the Hollywood Reporter (linked below, but could be spoiler-y) and basically said we'd be seeing more of Logan.

Weatworld is extraordinary entertainment IMO. It’s better than 98 percent of movies that are made today—more thoughtful, more complex, more human. It set an unreachably high bar in exploring existential questions in season one, and so it’s likely going to have to settle somewhat plotwise into a different type of storytelling, but it is very strong. I don’t care much about the sexualities of characters. I’d honestly rather watch a story made of all straight people than one token oversexed gay or bi guy, and Logan does seem to be more into fucking than any of the straight guys (as did the gay engineer). Why does every story need one token gay or bi guy, and why does every token character have to be sex crazed? That seems to be what everyone demands.

[quote]I don’t care much about the sexualities of characters.

[quote]Why does every story need one token gay or bi guy

Representation matters in pop culture. Sad if you don't realize that.

Of course Barnes will be back; the writers are well aware of his DL fave status.

R182 I’d love to be represented by a character who isn’t Jack MacFarland or the Westworld engineer who got whacked by the robot he force fucked. Even Logan, as bisexual, is basically a dog that will hump anything. I’d rather not be represented onscreen than only be represented as a dumb slut who follows his dick around.

[quote]I don’t care much about the sexualities of characters.

Good for you and those close to you who have someone so enlightened around them. Meanwhile, in the real world...

[quote]Why does every story need one token gay or bi guy

The real question is why you consider non-hetero people to be tokens. Why can't they just [italic]exist,[/italic] like we do in real life? Try flipping your perspective around and see all the straight people as tokens. It's a nice little mental experiment that works for all sorts of personal cisrcumstances that are dissimilar to yours, not just sexual orientation.

Representation isn't about characters being saints, that is the worst way to do it r184. It is about showing that not everyone in the world is straight, not everyone is white, not everyone is male. Casts that reflect the reality of the real world.

r184 We're not really in a position to be that picky just yet, unfortunately. Also, the Jack MacFarlands exist in real life and they enjoy seeing themselves represented on TV as well.

R185 because in every cast of 20 actors, only one is ever gay or bi. He is the horny, dumb cracker of one-liners who checks off the “LGBT diversity” box. It’s 2018 and I am still waiting for a show or a movie that isn’t specifically about a gay odd couple to feature more than one gay character, and at least one gay character whose characterization is not primarily about fucking and joking about fucking and innuendo about fucking. A Ford or a Bernard or a Teddy or a Dolores or a William or someone who has some interest and motivation in life that isn’t being hot and sucking dick. Call me a traitor for feeling this way if you must.

R187 I’m not referring to Jack’s mannerisms or flamboyance; I’m talking about his doglike pursuit of dick and ass. The only grown men who ever act anything like this on television are...well, almost every gay character on television.

I thought S02E02 was the best episode of the series. I was shockingly able to follow the timelines (I sometimes have trouble with things like that) and found the whole thing to be a hoot. Dolores and Mave are such good actresses, and fun to watch. I was completely surprised to see Jimmi Simpson and hot-ass bi stud Logan back for season 2. I want to see Logan dick.

The scene with Gus Fring as the Mexican Revolutionary was fantastic. When he started saying shit to William that were messages from Robert (Anthony Hopkins) I said out loud "This season is gonna be good"

Very curious to see what the big weapon is that Dolores was talking about. Is it everyone's internet history? Or maybe just a video of everyone's visit to the park- thousands of hours of rich, powerful men raping and torturing. Can't wait to find out.

In today's insane political climate, R188 and his clear sensible logic are "traitorous."

I'd rather be that kind of 'traitor' than a cultural 'patriot.'

The AMC series "The Terror" includes at least four gay characters whose motivations have nothing to do with fucking.

I love Riverdale, too, but the only gay male character, Kevin Keller, exists only to be sassy, to pursue sex, and to produce a musical episode. His only plot purpose is to be an inroad to the town sheriff, his father. The bisexual character Moose was in a relationship with Midge...and having loveless sex on the DL with Kevin. For a show written for young Millennials, I’m disappointed by the lack of nuance. Now there’s a gay (bi?) girl who has a more complex character profile and motivations, but the gay guy is still just an oversexed, musical-loving stereotype.

Zzzzzzzzzz

R192 I’ve never heard of it. I’ll check it out...but this conversation did start with discussion of mainstream-targeting HBO’s avoidance of gay characters.

Game of Thrones did break barriers by featuring ambitious gay men who were vying for the throne and as cutthroat and complex as any of the straight characters. Of course, all the homos are dead now, so it’s down to a battle of virile straight saviors vs ice zombies.

"The Terror" is a great show. Here's the official DL thread.

[quote]Call me a traitor for feeling this way if you must.

Wow, please come down off that cross Mary. The level of self-absorbance it takes to type that sentence....

Anyway, there are plenty of gay characters whose plot-line doesn't revolve around them constantly chasing dick anymore than a straight character would. This "argument" is such a straw man.

Terror is a great show but really lack hot guys

ERW flaunting her pussy-eating skills in front of the whole world. Bless her.

I think Tobias Menzies,Adam Nagaitis, and Liam Garrigan are hot.

r200 I agree that all of those people are hot. I would also like to add Paul Ready to that list.

Anyway, sorry for hijacking this thread. Come join us in 'The Terror' thread if you're interested in checking out the show.

I just wish Dolores and some of the other characters would stop talking like Kanye West's tweets.

When "Looking" was on (the same network), 90% of DL ripped it to SHREDS. And now you want gay representation back? Why, so you can rip it to shreds again?

I liked "Looking" even though I understood the criticisms (a bit boring, a bit predictable, etc) but there was plenty of gay representation there...which resulted in low ratings and gay people bitching about it for a million reasons.

DL was practically the only place that cared about "Looking" r203. Every episode generated a new 600 post thread, whether people loved it or hated it, they were talking about it.

Yeah but the point was that was HBO giving "gay representation" - and a lot of people shit on it (not just DL). So, people want it in Westworld too - why? So they can shit on it again if it's not a perfect representation of your reality / life as a gay person (which is always the issue)? The same goes on with Will & Grace - criticized far worse than Looking (especially here). If they can't win (and that's what straight people will think from reading the Looking criticism), why take the risk?

Ben Barnes was a safe choice to be bisexual though. Totally masculine. Very hot. No "gay stereotypes" other than promiscuity (nobody has complained yet - maybe cuz it's bisexuality).

I'm pretty sure I've had this same argument with you before on this board r205.

You seem to be upset that "Looking" didn't generate universally fawning praise here (which is completely unrealistic), where I keep pointing out the obvious, this community was obsessed with "Looking". It attracted tons of viewers and discussion on the DL.

Had DL largely ignored Looking I would get your point that the DL won't even support a show all about gay people. But instead you seem personally offended that some people said unflattering things, which is a completely different beast.

Westworld has done nothing for gay or lesbian representation - Logan is never shown with a man and ditto any lesbian

R207 will only be satisfied with seeing full penetration

I'm not r207 but a gay version of what Mae did with that boy toy outlaw in the first season would be more than enough for me.

Did you catch the Red Sea getting a mention in the second episode after I said that coastal shot with the bodies in the premiere reminded me of the parting of the Red Sea? I am one perceptive bitch. Now watch them turn Thandie into the black Buddha. Mark my words!

Anyway, I don't know why but I get incredibly excited every week when it's Westworld time, even though I've been terribly bored so far. Bring on the new episode!

Interesting that Dolores does get called out for being a tyrant and we see Teddy disobey her.

Also there is a colonial India world? You know can know what it feels like to be a colonizer!

Next up, Samurai World.

Where were the hot Indians in Colonial World? Would there have been a Season 2 if this was the park they had chosen to feature first?

God how many times do I have to make a basic point to some thick skulled morons on here.

[quote]But instead you seem personally offended that some people said unflattering things, which is a completely different beast.

No I am not personally offended by anything related to that show, and a lot of that show bored me as well. I am not repeating my point for a third time since it seems to go over your head.

Maybe you have personality disorder and need to be reprogrammed. You sound insufferable

So Dolores is now the villain of the series?

That depends on whose side you're on.

Great to see Fredric Lehne as the Confederate General. I've had a decades-long crush on him since 'Ordinary People', even though he's a lot older now.

The blond British guy in RajWorld was really hot. Too bad he was offed.

It's hard to think what the appeal of RajWorld would be except for big game hunting, though. I guess fancy imperialist living? Maybe it would be the sort of thing that would appeal to the elder two Trump sons.

Was there any hot male nudity in episode 3?

Just hot Brit dude shirtless:

I'm pretty sure that Logan had a sex scene with a man in the first season. It was an orgy scene, but there was a naked man right next to him. Not much, but there it is.

I read one critic say that so far this season eolores has been more like Ultron rather than a multifaceted character. I think the show creators expected we'd have lots of sympathy for the android hosts killing and torturing the guests, but I mostly feel sorry for the guests (especially the women)--it's hard to see their constant torment as anything other than pure sadism on the writers' parts. We seemed to be expected also to feel sorry for Delores this episode with her father but she's been so cold and sadistic in her Wyatt persona I can't feel any sympathy for her.

There sure are a lot of incredibly hot guys on this show (James Marsden, Jonathan Tucker, Rodrigo Santoro, Ben Barnes) but so far this season only hot British guy has been shirtless.

It's a very confusing show to watch. Not only do certain characters have multiple personae within them (and their words are sometimes pre-programmed, but also sometimes natural) but there are also multiple timelines and multiple locations. This episode was pretty good, but last episode was really chaotic, and it's hard to imagine anyone watching the show this late in the game having any idea of what's going on.

I also cannot figure out for the life of me why Maeve would have a British accent other than the fact that Thandie Newton has a british accent in real life.

It seems like there are fewer confusing timelines and instead just a few flashbacks. The main story is the current siege of the Worlds.

[quote] It seems like there are fewer confusing timelines and instead just a few flashbacks.

This episode, yes. But last episode there were at least three (maybe four?) timelines.

Agree with R222. It's mostly the Androids killing humans and I now wish a human army could wipe Dolores and the androids out.

The only sympathetic character is Bernard and Jeffrey Wright does a good job overcoming a confusing storyline.

Also, there was at least a few days' separation between the Dolores group's storyline and the Maeve group's storyline, since Armistice was in both of them even though otherwise the storylines did not coincide.

[quote] I'm pretty sure that Logan had a sex scene with a man in the first season. It was an orgy scene, but there was a naked man right next to him. Not much, but there it is.

The man was WAY off to the left, demurely touching Logan's shoulder. Meanwhile, L was covered in women. Please.

P.S. Why the heck isn't "Samurai World" called "Eastworld"?!

East World is far too broad of a term r228. Westworld refers to the Western genre, but if you hear East world you wouldn't immediately think of Japanese samurai culture.

[quote]The man was WAY off to the left, demurely touching Logan's shoulder.

Although it should also be added that Logan's knee is rubbing against the guy's groin.

[quote]We seemed to be expected also to feel sorry for Delores this episode with her father but she's been so cold and sadistic in her Wyatt persona I can't feel any sympathy for her.

I agree, Dolores was an enormously sympathetic character in season one and that's all been squandered.

The show is acknowledging that Dolores is becoming too blood thirsty, it clearly is meant to be a plot point that she will grow from.

r228 I thought the showrunners said last year they were calling it Shogun World? Have they changed their mind?

It's become a shoot 'em up, no longer a philosophical exploration of identity.

When Ben Barnes’s character was first introduced last season, he put his arms around two robots as soon as they got off the train and one was a dude. It was very sexual (explicitly so). So those bitching about covert displays are being willfully ignorant.

R223 They explained this as part of her narrative in Season 1. Her backstory had her crossing the ocean to become part of the new world and start a new life, or something like that.

We're not being willfully ignorant, we're just saying displays like that are not enough when you have the heteros eating each other's faces in literally every single episode, with last night's being no exception. Why should we be content with such double standards, and on a homosexual message board, of all places?

[quote] This episode was pretty good, but last episode was really chaotic, and it's hard to imagine anyone watching the show this late in the game having any idea of what's going on.

They are deliberately playing with the timelines to make the show seem deeper. I generally don't mind it but I haven't been too wild about the show this season and everything is starting to annoy me. I didn't like the latest episode practically at all.

For an operation this huge Delos certainly hasn't invested enough in proper security procedures should the hosts go crazy. A little EMP would wipe their minds in a second. And yes, we obviously aren't seeing who's running the show and apparently Bernard will end up killing the hosts so there probably is a hidden kill switch somewhere. But still, it annoyed me to see the human soldiers getting killed by the android soldiers when they ran through the field without any real protection. We all know that androids can hit anything and can be super fast so why weren't there shields for the commandos? Why risk killing so many humans by sending them out without protection? The only reason this would make sense was if the commandos were androids as well, and would be expandable. At this point I doubt it but who knows.

People already mentioned it multiple times but let's say it again: Why the hell should I care what a toaster thinks? Because in the end that's what all those androids are. Good writing, like in Blade Runner or A.I. and even season one of Westworld, can make us feel sympathethic towards machines but unfortunately season two has been extremely messy in that regard. At this point I'm tired of Dolores and wish I'd never have to see her again.

And yes, we need more dicks, more tits and more tight asses. The show, like the theme park itself, is based on serving our basic needs for sex and violence. Obviously the show is way more than that but anyone who'd rather see all male androids naked at some point instead of them running around doing silly things in the desert raise their hands. After season one I was afraid we'd get exactly what we've been getting, the androids fighting humans in the wild and pretending to be human while going through "human" emotions. But they are not human and giving so much screentime for them pretending they are makes watching the show tedious. For the first time ever I almost started fast-forwarding the latest episode.

And the final scene with the samurai like it was a huge thing. Why should the viewer care that there are android samurais? They are just the same toasters wearing different clothes. It feels like the makers are serving those super geeks who, especially in the comic book world, concentrate on superfluous details. India World didn't seem to be that magnificent, I mean it seemed to be a hotel plus a smallish forest. It certainly didn't make me feel excited about a Japanese version. Joy and Nolan apparently got practically a standing ovation at some con where they talked about the samurais. What the hell for? Are people getting excited about them the people who buy superhero dolls? Nothing wrong with that, I used to play with dolls as a kid as well and I get why adults love them, but I just can't stop wondering where Joy and Nolan are heading with the show. Instead of wishy washy writing I'd like to see something solid. I so wish there's something big and awesome waiting behind the corner and then ultimately in the end as well but I'm seriously starting to doubt it.

Would you look at all that gorgeous detail in the ambassador's costume!

The actor, Seril James, is very cute. Seems like he got engaged to his boyfriend a couple of months ago.

The Native American with the speaking role is hot to death underneath that face paint, by the way.

And that pupper is, of course, everything.

The Nolans giveth and the Nolans taketh away. Goodbye, Neil Jackson, we hardly knew ya!

He seems to be addicted to DIY cryotherapy, which, good for us.

Anyway, carry on!

[quote] India World didn't seem to be that magnificent, I mean it seemed to be a hotel plus a smallish forest.

What were you expecting in a ten-minute prologue? The website has made it clear there are also cities on rivers with ghats in The Raj.

[quote] P.S. Why the heck isn't "Samurai World" called "Eastworld"?!

It's not called "Samurai World"; it's called "Shogun World."

And it's not called "India World"; according to the show's website, it's called "The Raj."

[quote] We're not being willfully ignorant, we're just saying displays like that are not enough when you have the heteros eating each other's faces in literally every single episode, with last night's being no exception. Why should we be content with such double standards, and on a homosexual message board, of all places?

^^^^^^^^^Because it can't be said enough.

Also, I love everything that R238 said. I can't get invested in the androids. Add to that the sense that the writers think they've created strong female characters in Dolores and Maeve, and we're supposed to be fist-pumping their victories -- except they're not women, they're androids. A more interesting exploration would be to show the "female" droids short-circuiting whatever programming makes them act "female" instead of "male." Or vice-versa.

[quote] It feels like the makers are serving those super geeks who, especially in the comic book world, concentrate on superfluous details.

And that's why we'll never get gay sex on this show.

I find it amusing how some of you basically just see toasters while I have trouble believing they're androids, so I perceive them as humans. I think those emotional father-daughter scenes in the first season got to me to such an extent I never could make the switch in my head after that. Though to be fair, I also just see ERW and Thandie Newton, not their characters. The curse of having seen too much TV, I suppose. Well, that and a slight imagination deficit that prevents me from getting fully immersed in stuff.

Did anyone else think the British guy's running was the goofiest thing ever? Although Thandie's outlaw wasn't far behind, either. I think Running 101 refresher courses for actors wouldn't be such a bad idea and I'd definitely watch the shit out of any behind-the-scenes video featuring that.

[quote]When Ben Barnes’s character was first introduced last season, he put his arms around two robots as soon as they got off the train and one was a dude. It was very sexual (explicitly so).

Do you even know what the words "very sexual" and "explicit" mean...?

I liked how the Brit executive hostage quoted hot cowboy's line word for word. 'You're a robot, dummy!'

Mave (fuck that spelling) tried to one-up him for creating an uber-hero from his rejection fantasy (incel type?). But still, as typed above, she's still a toaster.

But it's also difficult to find empathy for human hostages. They're the 1%, filthy rich people who support a corporation that terraforms entire counties (former public parklands?) into playlands.

Also, where the frak could this place be? Canada? Wyoming? The guests enter via trains, but the gun-toting recon mercs enter by boat. What? Is it an island? If those big mountainscapes are real, it's hundreds of miles. If not, those fake landscapes would have shut down, right?

[QUOTE]When Ben Barnes’s character was first introduced last season, he put his arms around two robots as soon as they got off the train and one was a dude.

Did we ever identify who the guy was? He was hot.

Also I find it interesting how some people can't get emotionally invested in the host characters because they are not "real". Isn't the whole point of the plot challenging that?

Sure they might not have been born through biological means, but they are still self-aware, sentient and intelligent beings. What is the difference between sufficiently evolved "artificial" intelligence and biological intelligence?

[quote] But it's also difficult to find empathy for human hostages. They're the 1%, filthy rich people who support a corporation that terraforms entire counties (former public parklands?) into playlands.

So are you saying then you think the 1% who attend fundraisers for companies that build dams in Egypt and China and India should be tortured and murdered?

R251 = castrated incel Trumpian asswipe.

So, R251, when exactly DID you rape those babies? How many women have you assaulted?

Neither colonial world nor samurai world seem like they would be that fun to me. Bring on Roman world.

Pre-AIDS GayWorld, thanks.

A reddit geek discovered the presence of Raj World during the first season, based on subliminal messages posted by Delos organization.

No, they updated the site last night.

I've officially checked out. I'm too bored by it to try to understand what's going on.

I loved the first season and am pretty bored by the second season so far.

I liked last week’s episode, but last night’s was very slow for me. Last season was character driven and it introduced a lot of thrilling (for me, anyway) existential questions. This season so far is more of a fragmented set of puzzle pieces and I don’t feel the same empathy for the robots because they’re not as involved with self-discovery; Dolores has turned into the cowboy from the Weatworld movie who just pursues human beings as prey because she is programmed that way. Yawn.

I think that a lot of the season two stuff that some people find “boring” is being presented as a big mindfuck. What some of you express as being an ideal show is overly simplistic. In other words, you’re too stupid to watch the show that is being presented.

R260 What you wrote makes no sense. Try again...in other words.

[quote]Do you even know what the words "very sexual" and "explicit" mean...?

Apparently you don't. The poster you're quoting used the word correctly. It was quite clear (explicit) that they were all going to have sex.

[quote] Also, where the frak could this place be?

I read it's somewhere in the South China sea. I think they showed some Asian soldiers in the beginning of this season.

Who the fuck was the guy with Ben in R262? I can’t find the casting information anywhere.

Thanks, R263.

I really don't like this season either. I don't care for the robots. I never sympathized with them.

With the real future threat of AI overtaking humanity (and it's not science fiction, it's a possible scary fact), the writers now need to write this show from humanity's point of view and humanity as the underdogs. Unfortunately, there isn't a sympathetic human on this show. The MIB was for the robots.

I get the idea that the motive for stealing the technology is to have an army of robots to do (___?)'s bidding.

But for what? Espionage? Murder? Terrorism?

But if they were to sway elections, they wouldn't need robots, just stupid people, which we have, in abundance.

[quote] We're not being willfully ignorant, we're just saying displays like that are not enough when you have the heteros eating each other's faces in [bold]literally[/bold] every single episode,

R249 I could be wrong but I think the guy (along with a woman) Logan put his arm around as he got off the tram is the same one who he was talking to in episode 2 of this season; speaking about showing him some sort of artwork...The other guy doesn't have a speaking part, but he does get enough camera time where he caught my attention.

Table scraps.

why this thread is full of haters?

I'm loving this season so far.

Haters r271? Grow up.

Nah I don’t think that’s him, R269.

Whoever he is, he’s just an uncredited extra. Westworld has hundreds of them.

r268 A dated gif does not an argument make. Come back to us when you are able to form a coherent argument on your own. Or, you know, don't. I don't care.

He's been a monumental jerk throughout this thread. Just put him on ignore and move on.

If the handsome Taishi Mizuno doesn't [trigger warning for r268] literally slice someone's head clean off with his katana in the next episode, I will consider this show to be blatantly racist. Yes, [italic]that[/italic] is my personal red line, bitches.

[bold] The brutal treatment of elephants used in HBO’s Westworld[/bold]

Animal Defenders International (ADI) is calling on HBO to stop using wild animals after two live elephants featured in the latest episode of ‘Westworld.’ An ADI investigation of supplier Have Trunk Will Travel reveals the brutal behind-the-scenes training techniques used to make the elephants perform. Shocking undercover scenes show the animals being beaten and electric shocked with stun guns.

One of the elephants appearing in the sci-fi drama, a 51 year old female called Tai, is shown in the footage crying out as she is shocked with a stun gun to do the very tricks seen on screen, including movies such as Water for Elephants and Zookeeper.

ADI President Jan Creamer said, “With no way to guarantee the welfare of the animals off set, we urge HBO and other studios to end their use of live animals. There is no excuse for using the real thing when technology provides a realistic, humane alternative.”

HBO has stated that, “We are reviewing the circumstances related to archival training footage, which included one of the elephants that appeared in the series.” Despite assurances that “none of this video was shot during the production and does not in any way reflect practices on our sets,” no such guarantees can be given for the welfare of animals off-set and while they are being trained. During the release of Water for Elephants, the producers, stars, and trainers stressed that Tai was trained with kindness, marshmallows, and positive reinforcement; as the ADI footage shows this could not be further from the truth.

For more information, visit the link.

The brutal treatment of elephants used in HBO’s Westworld

Animal Defenders International (ADI) is calling on HBO to stop using wild animals after two live elephants featured in the latest episode of ‘Westworld.’ An ADI investigation of supplier Have Trunk Will Travel reveals the brutal behind-the-scenes training techniques used to make the elephants perform. Shocking undercover scenes show the animals being beaten and electric shocked with stun guns.

One of the elephants appearing in the sci-fi drama, a 51 year old female called Tai, is shown in the footage crying out as she is shocked with a stun gun to do the very tricks seen on screen, including movies such as Water for Elephants and Zookeeper.

ADI President Jan Creamer said, “With no way to guarantee the welfare of the animals off set, we urge HBO and other studios to end their use of live animals. There is no excuse for using the real thing when technology provides a realistic, humane alternative.”

HBO has stated that, “We are reviewing the circumstances related to archival training footage, which included one of the elephants that appeared in the series.” Despite assurances that “none of this video was shot during the production and does not in any way reflect practices on our sets,” no such guarantees can be given for the welfare of animals off-set and while they are being trained. During the release of Water for Elephants, the producers, stars, and trainers stressed that Tai was trained with kindness, marshmallows, and positive reinforcement; as the ADI footage shows this could not be further from the truth.

Are there any Westworld redditors posting here? Are people still talking about the show as much as they did during the first season over there? I've been quite disappointed about the first three episodes and I'm wondering are others as well.

I read the westworld reddit but don't post there. It seems like people are loving it or hating it. I don't understand what is disappointing about it, personally I am loving it.

This last episode was the best so far because of the director. I am finding myself a little annoyed by ERW’s chinny chin chin

Well well, at least something was happening but the makers are just dragging the story out with all the stupid tricks, like multiple timelines. Time jumps can be effective, like with Mr. Delos, but when it's happening all the time you wonder what's the point.

And the "big" reveal of the daughter... meh.

I probably sound like an asshole who should just stop watching the show. I enjoyed the first season but this season is seriously leaving me cold.

Hopefully, all of the mad scientists out there will come to the realization that singularity is a very bad idea.

There are a lot of things about the show I still don't get. Why, for example, does it take several weeks after the gala for the Delos people to send an army into the parks to save people? The people being killed are the 1%: if Marc and Priscilla Zuckerberg and Bill and Melinda Gates were being tortured by androids today after a theme park that erupted in murder, you can bet your boots the US government would be in the park within hours to try to save them, not weeks.

Also, the tortures and murders the hosts dream up for the guests are certainly vivid, but they don't make any sense. Why were they using the guests to be ties for railroad tracks (with their heads spiked in)? How could that possibly provide any sort of stability for the tracks, since they seemed to be building the tracks for their actual practical purpose?

The scene with the nitro torture was no nasty. Why would someone want to write that, or want to act in it, or want to watch it?

Maybe MIB is a host and the game Ford made for him is to find out. "If you're looking forward, you're looking in the wrong direction".

Yes, would not be surprised if MIB is a host. He never seems to eat, shower or need medical attention for his wounds

We've already seen he's not, R287.

Jimmy Simpson is sporting some weird Botox this year

"Pouring rain, tears, ice melting, overflowing bath... EMOTIONS! Did you catch that, guys?!" - the Nolans. And the hellish chamber was even less subtle than that. But I enjoyed this episode a lot regardless.

Speaking of, the furniture in that chamber going up in flames after every attempt is a textbook example of something that looks cool but is so impractical and wasteful that not even Delos would do it. Why not simply wheel the host out and replace it with a new one?

r289 That closeup of his face before the (very weird) fadeout was [italic]extremely[/italic] unflattering. Just ouch.

Jonathan Tucker's arms are so fucking jacked. Did you see all those veins in the church scene? I'll miss him.

[bold]Last night's Westworld was loaded with nods to Tarkovsky's Stalker[/bold]

[quote]Stalker, the story of three men in search of a room where your fondest wish will be granted, works to disorient by obfuscating time, perspective, and continuity, which you could also say about Westworld. Furthermore, the two shows share themes of humanity’s desire to transcend death.

Last night was the best. EW has a good summary write up

Japan next week, bitches!

Finally. Feels like I've been waiting years for this. Well, I have, in fact.

[quote] Speaking of, the furniture in that chamber going up in flames after every attempt is a textbook example of something that looks cool but is so impractical and wasteful that not even Delos would do it. Why not simply wheel the host out and replace it with a new one?

Exactly what I was thinking while watching the show. But then in a discussion at IGN someone said they probably had to be sure the space wasn't contaminated with anything the earlier android had left behind. Since they were working on a level as small as DNA it was always possible something left behind could alter the scientific experience, which obviously the whole thing was. That makes enough sense for me to buy the incineration.

Oh I was wondering the same thing. They could've alluded to that explanation in the show. Instead they just made it seem really odd.

Yes, clearly, they stocked up on flammable Ikea furniture.

It's a very cold-blooded and cruel show, which is I guess my major problem with all shows that feature torture and mass killing heavily (and there seem to be a lot of those these days). It's not even done on this show keeping in character--Major Braddock seemed a fairly neutral character for the last few episodes, and yet this episode out of nowhere he's torturing the bartender and Lawrence's family gratuitously with the nitro, and there's no explanation yet at all why the Chinese hosts would be hammering spikes into the guests' heads to make railroad ties (other than to make a very heavy-handed comment on race relations in the Old West).

At least in "Game of Thrones" if a character is sadistic it's deeply aligned with their personality (as is the case with Joffrey or Ramsay Bolton), or they are driven to sadism because of extreme circumstances (such as with Sansa feeding Ramsay to his dogs)--here it just seems to be random. Anyone can suddenly become sadistic and start torturing people. And you get the feeling the show's creators are doing it so we think, "Oh, driving spikes into guests' foreheads to make human railway ties--so twisted and COOL!"

I wish they would explain why the Man in Black got the moles removed from his face when he aged from Jimmi Simpson to become Ed Harris. I was really distracted by it last night--if you're going to have two actors in repeated close-ups in the same episode be the same person at different ages, it should not seem impossible one could age into the others one

It may have been difficult to find an actor who looks similar to Harris, but Simpson looks nothing like him. It's more absurd than the contrived plot lines and rampant violence.

The image of MIB with rain pouring off his hat was wonderful, I actually felt sympathy for the character. Ed Harris is an amazing actor.

Thank you, r300! I have a hard time believing Simpson would one day turn onto Harris. It is a major roadblock for me. I know he is on another HBO show, but ever since last season I was wondering why they did not make Alexander Skarsgard the younger version of the MIB. He and Harris can have a similar coldness and hardness to them, while still managing to eek out some kind sympathy.

They do look rather different... I suppose it helped with the "surprise" of season 1 but now it's sort of distracting.

R302, Alexander Skarsgard doesn't look anything like Ed Harris and is like a foot taller. Jimmi Simpson is one of the better things in the show. It's been a while since I've seen Skarsgard anywhere but I don't remember him exactly being better actor than Ben Barnes, who's been quite a distraction at times in Westworld with his weirdly detached presence. Simpson has been pretty much perfect.

Regardless of your memory, r304, he won an Emmy, SAG and Golden Globe, so I don't get the Ben Barnes comparison, who has barely been on the show this season and was good the first season. IMDB is your friend.

Secondly, get some reading comprehension. Did I say that Harris and Skarsgard looked exactly alike? No, I wrote about their shared coldness and hardness that for some is not working with Simpson. Nor does Simpson have any chemistry with ERW and they have some of the worst sex scenes in HBO history which includes Lena Dunham. Something obviously not working because the ratings keep falling despite a huge push.

You've got the wrong Skarsgård. Gustaf is the one who could pass as a younger Ed Harris. Although the height might be a problem but still nothing TV magic couldn't fix.

If Ed Harris had had the same mole, there wouldn't have been a 'reveal' that he was the older version of the younger dude in season one. It would have been too obvious.

R305, Pia Zadora won a GG as well. Regardless of the awards Skarsgard isn't exactly the deepest actor out there. He's better looking than Simpson but for some reason I enjoy watching Simpson acting much more. Skarsgard has been a total meh in everything I've seen him in. I don't really find him sexy which makes me look at his work more objectively. And Ben Barnes stood out from the crowd last season because of his wooden acting. That said I like him and don't really mind him, partly because Logan is bi.

[quote]Secondly, get some reading comprehension.

Oh you're telling ME that? Am I allowed to state the fact that Skarsgard is way taller than Harris only if you first bring it up? You do realize suddenly shrinking a character by 9 inches will not go unnoticed?

R306, I totally forgot about him and he is already on the show. But I will give you that they do favor each other and are naturally bald/balding. I can't remember ever seeing a non balding Ed Harris.

R308, I love how you skipped the Emmy and SAG awards, and the Critics award because that does not fit your narrative. Pathetic. If he only won a GG I wouldn't have said shit because Lady Gaga recently and unfairly won one. They clearly don't do the right all the time. And how are you criticing his work "objectively" when you contradicted yourself earlier writing that you have not seen any of his work for some time? Embarrassing. No need to try to put down some else to protect Simpson. I just threw out random alternative that came into my head and you got you panties in a twist like a typical stan.

As stated above, height difference solved by TV magic to make it plausible.

R310, oh please, you're nothing but a disgruntled Skarsgard fangirl who can't stand that others don't worship the ground Skarsgard walks on. Sure he makes you wet but guess what, he's not exactly Sir Laurence Olivier.

I've no reason to "protect" Jimmi Simpson. He's doing a perfectly fine job in Westworld.

Was there any nude male nudity in latest episode?

Ed Harris as a young man was extremely handsome.

Jimmi Simpson is doing a good job acting-wise but he's not physically near what Harris as a young man looked like and not handsome, just kinda cute.. Patrick Wilson would have been a good fit.

I thought this last episode was good, especially the surprise story about the founder, Delos. That was great horror story.

This would be a great series if they cut out the unnecessary violence (like those people lining the railroad tracks). What was the point of that? Why all the sadistic violence? There's no rhyme or reason to it.

And as someone said, these people are the 1%. There would be a big military invasion of this island.

Hot take that came into my mind during the episode: that orb Bernard took from the secret lab before murdering everyone was meant to house the consciousness that Dolores' dad is carrying around in an encrypted form. Might be either Anthony Hopkins' or Ed Harris'. If it's Harris', there's a distinct possibility he awoke as a host in the first episode of this season.

Sorry if this is considered a generally accepted or a completely debunked theory by now. I'm a bit slow like that.

I hope Harris is not a host. It would be redundant.

Last season was dominated by Nolans . This season is mess. I think writing department is taken over by JJ Abraham team and he is making mess of this season just like he always does

R317 Not true.

Is there a reason why you eschew the use of articles, both indefinite and definite, R317?

Luke Hemsworth needs to be a host so we can get a naked scene from him.

I did think this episode was quite strong, but I also think Bernard is the most interesting character so it worked for me. The background with William and his father in law was nice. I really appreciated the break from Delores.

[quote]Jonathan Tucker's arms are so fucking jacked. Did you see all those veins in the church scene? I'll miss him.

I've had a crush on Jonathan Tucker for so damn long. His banana hammock in Kingdom was legendary.

The things I would do to that ass.

Logan should turn in his bi card for not having the host join in the orgy.

Lordy!

Is Tucker a queer boy?

[quote]Is Tucker a queer boy?

He is married to a woman, but that never stops DL from gossiping.

Jonathan Tucker gets fucked by Josh Lucas in "The Deep End"

Dolores told Teddy that he's kind and we know she can't have that. Next up, no more mr nice guy. I think.

Tonight's Shogun-World was the best episode all season. Finally, new characters to care about and who care about one another, rather than just one more cheap philosophical puzzle ("Is he/she a host or isn't she?").

Also, no gratuitous physical torture. Though there was a lot of blood letting, and the shogun's death was enormously gruesome, the latter was at least done out of focus (and visited onto a cruel host rather than a terrified guest).

I am expecting we will see a return to gratuitous torture next episode with Dolores's re-tuning of Teddy to make him a sadistic killbot, though.

This season is not holding my interest at all. Don't care who Dolores or Maeve kills or when Bernard is discovered to be a host or Ed Harris finds the maze. I keep the show on as background noise, looking up every 5-10 minutes to see if anything of interest has happened.

Any hot male nudity in latest episode?

There's been no hot male nudity all season.

Jonathan Tucker was completely wasted, as is Rodrigo Santoro.

R331, allegedly Teddy's butt in bed, but his head was turned away; possible body double.

Yeah, the one death was pretty graphic; she went savage on him for sure.

R330, I too keep it on for background noise but the two scenes above caught my attention.

Teddy don't count? we just saw his ass tonight, or was that a body double?

[quote] Yeah, the one death was pretty graphic; she went savage on him for sure.

It was mostly out of focus and at a distance, though. And it wasn't a real person but an android host--they can't really be killed.

And finally, unlike with the horrible killings last week (with the guests used as railroad ties), it wasn't random cruelty being visited onto him. He had just had the geisha madam's most beloved protegée brutally "killed" (although again, hosts can't really be killed) after implying he would leave her alone.

Hate to say it, but I am over Dolores

Me too, R336. Don't like her anymore.

[quote]Finally, new characters to care about and who care about one another, rather than just one more cheap philosophical puzzle ("Is he/she a host or isn't she?").

I didn't care about any of the new characters. How do you care about a robot? Like I've said here before writing has to be masterful for that to happen, and season two hasn't really had anything masterful at this point. Season one wasn't perfect by any means but still I feel like I'm watching a straight-to-video sequel after the A level talent from the original has left.

ive tried numerous times to get into this show, but its just DUMB

This episode really threw into sharp relief for me just what a drag Dolores, her cringy dialogue with Teddy, and her whole plot are. I died a little inside every time they cut away from Maeve's adventure back to Westworld. ERW must be pissed.

Everything about the Shogun world was perfect, although the filter used made it look like I was scrolling through someone's super tasteful Insta, or watching Scandi noir. But I have to say, I [italic]hated[/italic] the (obviously Californian) parched grass seen in a supposedly Japanese setting. Eugh, I can barely stand that in Westworld as it is. I know it would be incredibly cost prohibitive to shoot there, but seeing actual Japanese vegetation would help improve the immersive experience markedly.

The workroom scenes showed the most peen ever, right? Gustaf and Fares sharing a scene weirds me out still because that's his brother's ex! Allegedly.

This moment was incredibly touching. Robot or not, they feel pain regardless and I for one care about that.

Dolores' revenge story is tedious now - watching her riding around with confused Teddy is making this series draaaag. Who will she team up with now, and who is she even looking for? She already killed Ford, so who is the goal now? After Maeve gets her daughter back, what's her plan - to escape WW and live life on the outside with the humans? Good luck.

Last, Jeffrey Wright is a good actor but it's been 5 episodes of him stumbling around looking dazed. Enough!

Last, Jeffrey Wright is a good actor but it's been 5 episodes of him stumbling around looking dazed. Enough!

r342 And don't forget the shakes!

*sorry, forgot to quote that post

I don't feel the supposed epic love between Maeve and the gunfighter Hector; I see two robots who reprogrammed themselves. I don't care how many times they suck face or screw, they don't generate any heat or passion in my eyes, so I can't get invested in their "relationship" or hoping the best for those two crazy kids. My attitude is like that British guy they have hostage - disdain at machines trying to act human; I can't muster up empathy for them.

I finally decided to give up on the show. Last night when I realized it was on, I felt obligated to watch instead of looking forward to it. Sad because I loved season one but this is too boring.

I get the feeling that this show is being written almost exclusively for the Reddit audience and no one else.

[quote]My attitude is like that British guy they have hostage - disdain at machines trying to act human; I can't muster up empathy for them.

For some strange reason the writers this season are writing more scenes for robots like they were humans. Newsflash, they are not. Last year scenes with them were almost exclusively used to further the main story, where the big picture with humans was more important. This time we get to see very little human interaction, and mainly with extremely superficial whining from the human guy traveling with Maeve. They rarely show human characters from season one, instead bringing in new characters, whose screen time is measured in seconds, like that new Skarsgard brother, and write them ridiculous dialogue, like this gem from last night where the Skarsgard brother is discussing the situation with a tech guy:

"Well, that's quite a story you gave them... and one hell of an ending. [bold]How did all these disparate threads come together to create this nightmare? If we figure that out, we'll know how the story turns[/bold]."

Seriously, my jaw dropped when I heard that. Are Lisa Joy and Jonathan Nolan in charge any more? Or have they completely lost it? Hammy and campy dialogue is ok when the robots say it since we know that was written for their characters and was meant to be overly dramatic. You can not make humans talk like that.

r348 Oh, god, that line! Full-body wince when he said that.

I find it amusing that some people admit to only sort of paying attention so they can rant on here about how bad it is

R350, believe me, I watch the show intensely and so far I've pretty much hated this season, after liking the first. I've been wondering should I stop following it completely. The show, or any other show really, is not worth spending more time on than necessary.

What a gorgeous costume this is.

Thandie's Japanese sounded so effortless that I was wondering at times whether she was being dubbed. Especially in that gifting scene, she sounded like another person.

Season 2 is so fucking boring. There is zero character I care about. It's just a bunch of robots running around killing each other. I'm done with this show after ep5.

[bold]How Hiroyuki Sanada Became Westworld’s Secret Weapon[/bold]

[quote]Sanada, an actor, also acted as a Japanese culture advisor for the show’s first trip to Shogun World.

Nice interview with him for Vanity Fair.

wow so many haters in this thread. Why keep watching if you hate the show so much?

This is a gay site maybe you are really angry that this season it's all about fembots.

Here's Teddy's butt. and please stop whining!

R356, it's called having a discussion about a flawed show. You expect all of us to just praise it and ignore the problems? Datalounge has never been a fan site yet some people these days seem to act like it is. And judging by the trolldar you're not exactly a huge contributor to this thread. You're mainly just complaining about "the haters". If you want to see people going crazy about the show and mingle with the fanboys reddit would probably suit you better.

No, r357, you have to love everything about the show and question nothing. You see how ballistic some nut upthread went over a recast suggestion. It is not that serious.

Recast who?

I'm not the one who went ballistic but recasting a semi- to well-known name on such a huge show would be incredibly damaging to the actor being recast. That's why recasting on big shows is not done that often. It's just common decency, really, so the showrunners would sooner write the character out before employing the nuclear option.

This show is many things, but dumb or stupid, it is not.

You are taking it too seriously. It was just a suggestion thrown out despite the fact it will never happen. Oh, and you are wrong. EVERYONE is replaceable and the world keeps spinning.

[quote]This show is many things, but dumb or stupid, it is not.

I wouldn't be too sure about that.

James Mardsen's butt is looking fantastic, and he is what mid forties now?

If that was him and not a butt double, impressed.

[quote]How do you care about a robot?

I find Bernard the most interesting character. Episode 4 that focused on him was the best of the season.

I do agree that I am bored by Delores this season, hoping it will pick up with her.

I want to bang Jonathan Tucker so hard that cum dribbles out of his mouth. His face and ass are perfect.Too bad William's Bro-in-law didn't get penetrated by his dong

[quote]I find Bernard the most interesting character.

Next to other actors and their characters Jeffrey Wright seems more like Anthony Hopkins, he's that good. He manages to convey complex emotions which makes Bernand seem more human than actors playing human in the show.

R363 I suspect it was a body double. If they're gonna show it, make it look as juicy as possible. Viewers don't have to know.

It would also line with the show's premise. If Teddy is a human constructed-robot, it'd make sense they'd give him an amazing butt, so a stand-in would be acceptable in this case. Think of the final scenes of The Stepford Wives, (the original!).

There was a nice big flaccid cock of some black host in one of the scenes, or did I imagine it? I do agree the Shogun scenes were outstanding compared to Dolores and he ongoing hatred of human kind.

I think this season is difficult. It may turn out to truly 'get it' we'll have to watch it multiple times due to the time changes in the episodes. Maeve is the hero, Dolores, not so much so.

C’mon, c’mon, jump me already! I promise I won’t bite.

Perhaps the reveal will be that Maeve’s “daughter” is now a psychotic killing robot, or was taken out of the park, or was already destroyed and her story implanted onto Dolores.

Or maybe this entire rebellion season will turn out to be an elaborate game for some of the staff, deaths and all. Maybe skinny British guy could shut Maeve down at any point, but he’s interested in this adventure just like the MIB.

Bobby, it was all a bad dream!

R371 There's a rumor circulating that Maeve's "daughter" is Charlotte. Remember, the hosts memories are very unclear. It goes that in one of her previous incarnations, she was a nanny or babysitter programmed to look after Charlotte, and purposely given a large amount of empathy so that she'd be very protective of the then toddler Charlotte.

Maeve and Charlotte have yet to come across each other. It'll probably be saved for the end of this season.

When bae tells you the elbow is his absolute limit but you think you know better and start channelling your inner Rinko Kikuchi. (This thread doesn't have nearly enough fisting jokes for my liking.)

Anyway, who's excited about tonight's episode?!

"Why'd they waste the welcome team?'"

Were the welcome team human or robot?

I don’t enjoy this season as much as last season, either, but it’s still interesting. I skipped two weeks because watching felt like work, but I watched them yesterday and got back into the show courtesy of the geishas. Lots of people seem to revile this show. If it bothers you *that* much, then why not just stop watching? Also, it’s a TV show about robo-people...you might enjoy it more if you just suspend disbelief and give the show artistic license instead of focusing primarily on what’s wrong with details. The show is never going to be perfect given what it is reaching for as an existential action adventure sci-fi series. If it’s not enjoyable at all, why watch it?

"Hello, old friend".

Are we supposed to be surprised Ford is lingering inside the programming?

First of all, r376: no one elected you boss. People will post what the think about the show one way or the other whether you like it or not.

I really liked last week's episode, and was hoping the show was back on a creative upswing. But this episode was pretty dull yet again. The characters just keep moving around the chessboard.

The biggest problem the second season has been having is there's no narrative goal in sight. The first season, because of the 1975 film we all knew eventually the androids would start killing the humans, and we spent the whole season waiting for that payoff. This season we're waiting for... what? Before tonight I would have said the biggest thing we want is for Maeve to be reunited with her daughter, and now that's happened. So what's left? The only human character we see enough of to care about is the Man in Black, and he's pretty unpleasant, and all the androids can be replaced if they are destroyed. So what do we care about finally happening now? The solution to what the problem with the androids was? The reassertion of corporate order and control over Westworld?

[quote] I skipped two weeks because watching felt like working

Exactly how I feel. How is it possible the critics are applauding this season? It's confusing dreck. Nothing but dead bodies everywhere. It's a chore to watch and the characters are despicable. I think Jeffrey Wright's character is the good guy or is he? I think I"ll just read the recaps. I'm not tuning in next week, piece of crap.

I find magazine and newspaper recaps are hard to read because they're always written in a tiresomely sassy non-linear way.

Well, there are recaps on You-Tube or even Wikipedia, doesn't take a brain scientist to figure what's going on.

[quote]The first season, because of the 1975 film we all knew eventually the androids would start killing the humans, and we spent the whole season waiting for that payoff.

That’s a pretty big assumption

MIB/Ed's daughter, out of the blue!

Does mean Teddy throw a meaner fuck?

Is Ford's dog a whippet or a greyhound?

What happened to Skaarsgard? Nasty Scottish mercenary's doing what he couldn't?

This season is like watching The Matrix sequels.

[quote]The first season, because of the 1975 film we all knew eventually the androids would start killing the humans, and we spent the whole season waiting for that payoff.

The first season just was more professionally made. The writing was heaps better, as was the directing. It's like the B roll team took over this season. The first season worked not because people were expecting for the killing to begin but because dramatically everything made sense. Sure the timeline trickery played its part but unlike this season the story might've worked even without it. This season the production is clearly hiding shitty quality with the timeline jumps. I can only wonder what Christopher Nolan is commenting to his brother, IF he even agrees to waste his time watching this dreck. First time with Westworld I ended up fast-forwarding through half of the episode, not that I haven't wanted to do it for weeks already.

Thandieworld! God, she's so great in this. The Shogun world moments were so gentle but so short and the hosts in it were pretty thinly drawn, compared to their western counterparts. I see now where that Variety's critic was coming from.

I told you that was Hopkins' consciousness/memories in the orb Bernard took from that lab! I'm not nearly as dim as I look.

[quote]What happened to Skaarsgard? Nasty Scottish mercenary's doing what he couldn't?

I think it's a time jump and Gustaf comes in after the Scottish mercenary. Notice how Gustaf has Bernard with him but the Scottish guy does not.

“The Shogun World...hosts were pretty thinly drawn...”

R386 My take as I watched it wasn’t that that was a storytelling failure, but that we were watching Maeve (“Mother Eve”) witness her own fiction as objectively as human beings saw her in the saloon. It was *her* story being played out in a superficial way, which forced her to confront the reality of her own past and inner life. It’s a deeper plunge into the question of whether she is simply playing out a prewritten program simply because she now recognizes that her past was, as she can now recognize, naive, or if she is really growing beyond her fate. We saw her in Shogun World with some of the seeming “superpowers” of invulnerability that human beings had in West World (by virtue of her “witchcraft”), and so in a way she is “more human” than the hosts—but at least one of the hosts is a literal version of her, and so she sympthizes deeply with even the unenlightened hosts. She’s gaining empathy, contrasted with Dolores, who sees inferior robots as simply inferior, without any human empathy at all. Maeve’s enlightenment is deepening and I think everyone hates Dolores because she hit a wall insofar as introspection and “human development.”

Oh, and all this stuff about Maeve is emphasized by her decision to let every host choose her own fate, “even if that fate is death.” I mention her name breaks down to “mother eve” because Maeve certainly has a deific quality now; she is a goddess with respect to the hosts. And I still find that part of this story intriguing. In mythologies of various types, gods often had all the same physical and psychological attributes of human beings, but they had less limited physical powers and they knew more; the gods had the power to create or destroy, to cause chaos or simply witness or interact with people, and sometimes they found human beings to be trifling and woefully weak and stupid, and sometimes they became embroiled in their dramas—but they always had the upper hand and had a greater grasp on the big picture than human beings did. And this is the role of both Maeve and Dolores now. Maeve is more empathetic and variable in her interactions, and Dolores is a “jealous and wrathful god.” So as much as the show is sci fi about AI, it’s also a play on the Greek, Egyptian, Babylonian and other myths.

Jeffrey wright is a huge turn off,, his snooty way of speaking, his role seems poorly written, and they way he says each line as if it were written by the great bard himself.

enuf!

r388 I get all of that. My issue is that this was done using the Asian hosts so they're doubly used as tools in this narrative. Why couldn't we viewers see Rinko witness Maeve from that perspective as well? It just bothers me that the magical Asians are once again used only as a mechanism to advance our own western consciousness, around which everything else is centred. It's a tired trope at this point.

Seems a bit insensitive but whatever. I guess the Nolans thought throwing in that geisha dance and the touching burial ceremony would offset this representation problem. And that Native American having a spiritual quest for Maeve at the end... oy vey.

[quote]I guess the Nolans thought throwing in that geisha dance and the touching burial ceremony would offset this representation problem.

*massive eyeroll*

Why don’t you write your own story and get it made?

Don't worry, r391 We get to Trigglypuff world in series 3.

I have a feeling Samurai World will be back. Seems like a huge investment to design all those sets, costumes, etc., introduce new characters and charismatic actors and then completely abandon them after a two-episode arc. Maeve will probably end up a damsel in distress at some point and be saved by the kabuki lady and her entourage.

The American Indian depiction, though, is a step behind the Washington Redskins and that’s saying something. I don’t think we’ve seen a single Am Indian host who was anything other than a total bloodthirsty savage, have we?

A very interesting review of this wonderful episode called " Phase Space"

This show always cracks me up because their version of the Ol' West is mostly black and white. Mexicans/Spanish were not a minority. lol But at least they show a pueblo once in a blue moon.

Anyway, Rinko and Thandie did an excellent job in these last two episodes. Maeve just breaks my heart.

I just watched the last episode, and I am very sorry to admit it to myself, but I am done with this season. I enjoyed season one immensely. This season has been an unfocused mess with the writers trying to substitute gratuitous violence for coherent plotting. They should be canned, the whole lot of them.

If there is a season three I might stop back, but as for this season, it is no longer worth my time.

The writing is about as hackneyed as it gets.

That said, Teddy should turn to men.

Maeve is a psychic witch now, so I see no reason why Teddy can’t become an oversexed gay vampire zombie.

He looked like he was pretty much over fish in the last episode.

I'm surprised that they didn't make the aim of S2 to be what "Futureworld" was. They did briefly allude to it with poor Delos. I, for one, am sorry to see Shogun World gone. Even if it was the same story, it was so much more interesting. Teddy is going to end up hating Delores and probably joining forces with Maeve.

I like this show but by the end of each episode the storylines are forgettable. You don’t really sympathize with any of the humans or robots. If Maeve is woke, she would realize her “daughter” is just a toy

I'm still going with the MIB died at some point and was turned into a host. He definitely seemed "off" in this episode.

"Unless I take it back". Hopkins can still bring a perfectly chilling line.

I was bored through much of the action. At this point, Dolores, Maeve, Teddy, Bernard, MIB, Delos

I was bored through much of the action. At this point, Dolores, Maeve, Teddy, Bernard, MIB, Delos lady are not going to be killed permanently. All those tense life-or-death scenes with guns pointing at people, Dolores’s several I’ll-get-you-my-pretty! moments with the saw at the Delos lady’s head...zzz. The action is lame to me as long as nothing is really at stake.

I hope one day someone cuts this entire series into chronological order so I can just follow everything sequentially.

Skarsgard’s American accent was particularly terrible tonight.

Y'all can stop looking for Meliana now... they found her. Someone just sent her back to Westworld to update her BIOS.

This season keeps getting worse. The writing is mostly terrible and clumsy, the directing flat and cringe worthy. Hopkins brought in some much needed gravitas this week but there was no chance of him being able to save the episode, or this season.

What the hell happened in the production after season one? Are Nolan and Joy in charge any more? Or was it Nolan with his experience who was mostly responsible for season one and now Joy, practically a newbie, calls the shots?

This is the worst thread about westworld of the internet. You bitches keep complaining how boring or bad this series is but you keep watching it? Maybe you guys don't deserve a series like this.

.

So all of that was in Bernard's head?

[quote]R411: Maybe you guys don't deserve a series like this.

Christ, you are tedious.

Anthony Hopkins elevated this show with his scenes. It's hard to get into with nobody to root for, I just can't have the much sympathy for a robot and the humans suck.

Normally on a series I would find the introduction of a supernatural “superhero power” like Maeve’s telepathic ‘witchcraft’ tedious and desperate, but given that she’s basically hacked a computer network I can buy it in this story. It was a nice dose of fun in a show that’s twisting itself into knots.

R411, you must not be reading too many other threads because there are similar sentiments. Which are also reflected in the ratings being in free fall. I was kind of shocked after last year, but facts are facts. And the audience has repeatedly said why. You can't have a show where people don't care about the characters and what happens to them anymore or at best are lukewarm about them. You can have all the action sequences, plot twists and psycho and philosophical talk in the world, but the root of every successful show regardless of it is being good or bad is people caring.

Problem is that you can't force, shame or manipulate people into caring. Just like telling someone it gets going in the 7th episode is a turn off and reflects bad writing. Too many other options to pussyfoot around all day.

I have to agree with R416 largely. I do think that the show is tailor-made for a certain audience, but that audience does not necessarily translate to many millions of people. The concept is of the moment as it is being executed, and it’s novel enough to have engaged millions of people up until now, but it’s basically a puzzle that was assembled over the course of the first season and then banged up and shattered into a bunch of pieces again at the beginning of this one. A lot of people find it tedious to reassemble the same pieces into a new puzzle, and most of the characters do now feel more like game pieces being shuffled around than anything else.

Dolores can wield a mean bone saw. I think the writing is just fine. Ford said the human mind "is the last analog device in a digital world".

An AV Club commenter said he was getting Charles Xavier and Magneto vibes from Dolores and Maeve, and it made me laugh. So true!

Bonus gif of this ridiculous scene. Hemsworth is so homely I wince sometimes when he comes on screen. I'm sorry, I just do.

[quote]Hemsworth is so homely I wince sometimes when he comes on screen. I'm sorry, I just do.

He is also significantly shorter than Chris and Liam. It was interesting to see some of the older male soldier types towering over him.

r420 I'd be totally fine with him if I didn't know he has those two gorgeous brothers. But now that's the only thing I can think about when I see him.

Reddit is sated for another week and that's the only thing that matters, I suppose.

[quote]Hemsworth is so homely I wince sometimes when he comes on screen. I'm sorry, I just do.

Your everyday life must be a living hell if people as ugly as this make you wince. How ever do you manage? Do you only dare to look at those you deem good-looking enough? With the uggos you quickly avert your eyes and breathe a sigh of relief for having managed to look away so quickly... Come on, he's very handsome. I actually prefer him over his doll looking brothers. Luke seems more... real, and more masculine. Funnily enough it's James Marsden from your gif who's losing his looks fast. He looks *rough*.

Luke Hemsworth was actually one of the most likable characters on season one. Unfortunately season two is such a crapfest that practically the only ones coming out looking good, and not in the looks department sense, are Anthony Hopkins and Jeffrey Wright. Thandie Newton is not bad but as with most androids the terrible writing makes her character useless in a dramatic sense. This season the only android who's managed to come off relatable is Jeffrey Wright's Bernard.

That Hemsworth is fugly

I forgot to mention Jimmi Simpson who's been doing great job from the start. Too bad we haven't seen him that much this season. He's probably not good looking enough for R419 or R424, though.

I knew some uggo would have an overwritten meltdown over my post, I just knew it.

I'm an 8 by the way, but he still makes me wince. I can't help it. It's genetic, I guess. Jimmi Simpson makes me wince sometimes as well, especially in close-ups. It's the piggy nose, I think.

Jimmi Simpson doesn’t bother me but I’m not attracted to him. However, I can see his appeal. Hemsworth looks like he has Down’s. Zero appeal. I seriously question the sanity of anyone who finds him attractive.

Yes, but are you an L.A. 8, or an Albuquerque 8?

MIB has to be a host since he is repeatedly shot or injured with no medical care

[quote]I knew some uggo would have an overwritten meltdown over my post, I just knew it.

Wow. Sometimes it's good to find out what the people you're having a conversation with are really like. You don't really sound too bright.

The Asian and redhead lab techs are downright terrible actors and most of the smaller recurring characters have terribly mannered conservatory acting styles. I only find the lead/famous actors to be any good.

Those Hispanic boys in Albuquerque are so hot! An ABQ 8 would be an LA 10!

The Asian lab tech is hotter than Hemsworth

These two totally banged, right?

I think it's so adorable how exasperated r411 got with our complaining. You just know we'd all be immediately downvoted to hell and hidden from sight if this were Reddit. But here, every opinion is out in the open, seemingly equal. I can see how that would annoy people who are used to different platforms.

If you want to watch a much better show about what happens when humanoid robots become sentient, you should watch "Humans" on AMC. Season 3 just started last week.

Jimmi turns me on. He’s kind of homely and yet attractive and the combo makes me salivate.

[quote] The Asian lab tech is hotter than Hemsworth

Do you mean Aaron Fili? I'm not sure what his ethnicity is.

[quote] Hemsworth is so homely I wince sometimes when he comes on screen.

Mary!!!

You are a delicate hothouse flower!!!

[quote] Maybe you guys don't deserve a series like this.

Oh boo hoo hoo hoo!!

It's impossible to care about the characters. First of all, none of them can die, since the robots can always be re-assembled and have their "minds" downloaded into new bodies; and now that we've found humans can have their minds be downloaded too, they could be killed but reincarnated as a new robot host.

Next, there's not been a single likeable human character (as the show keeps telling us), and the likeable robots can be turned into psycho killers with just a few strokes to an iPad, which is exactly what has happened to Bernard, Teddy, Delores, etc. So how can you care about any of them? They have no real "selves."

Jimmi Simpson looks like a booger I’ve picked out of my nose.

Hideous. Clearly the asian lab tech looks better. 🙄

Gee, I also think the shorter Hemsworth guy is handsome. To his discredit, he just happens to have two hotter taller brothers.

Weirdly cute IMO. I’d happily be an on-demand booty call.

He has a pretty/alien/homely quality similar to Johnathan Rhys-Myers, except less pretty and alien.

Does anyone remember Jimmi from Rosered?

Yes r446, Rose red was a great movie. r440 Now that the cradle (host backup) has been destroyed, I don't think they can be re-made. They might be able to transfer the brain bulb to a new body but if that bulb gets destroyed I think it's game over for the hosts.

I remember Jimmi from Psych and as the intern on David Letterman. I find him funny but not hot

Leonardo Nam is the Asian in question, and he is indeed a stud. Much better looking than Hemsworth.

r442 Why shit on the gorgeous Leonardo Nam to try and prove your point? Are all Asians automatically lower on the totem pole in your eyes?

I for one fell in love with Felix the moment I first saw him.

Watched The Dressmaker yesterday and had to screenshot this moment. Imagine if this one was prancing around in Westworld instead. I'd be in a puddle of prelube every week. Also, I cracked up when he said to Kate "We'll take my slow brother as well." Totally made me think of Luke.

Excited for the new episode tonight? I find myself forgetting how much the previous one sucked and getting hopeful anew every single week.

[quote]Excited for the new episode tonight? I find myself forgetting how much the previous one sucked and getting hopeful anew every single week.

I've stopped believing there's anything better coming this season. They've obviously chosen the current route which is sad. Season one was intelligent, this one is not. Hopefully HBO realizes how low the quality has sunk and does something about it.

I really loved tonight's episode.

I'm sure some will complain it was slow but I'm in agreement with R453.

Tonight's episode "Kiksuya" (Remember), may be Westworld's finest hour to date.

Oh that actor is the one who stopped production because of health issues. Rumor was an OD.

Every scene with Anthony Hopkins in it is amazing.

They didn’t really move the plot along, but this was a magnificent hour of dot-connecting. I liked it.

Yeah, I enjoyed this episode. Did some really engaging world building, was not expecting the native american guy to become such a prominent force in the plot.

Was it the maze symbol on the rock plus the Shakespeare quote (from Dolores) that woke Maeve up? Was it just the Shakespeare quote?

WHY ARE THE INDIANS FAT?

I liked his tits, personally.

What a glorious hour of television that was, and my favourite Westworld episode to date. Akecheta gently delivering the lines in his beautiful tongue, accompanied by the gorgeous music, was tugging on my heartstrings relentlessly throughout the episode. Still misty-eyed as I type.

I don't much care for this show but episodes like these I really treasure and will revisit them in the future for sure.

[quote] Akecheta gently delivering the lines in his beautiful tongue, accompanied by the gorgeous music, was tugging on my heartstrings relentlessly throughout the episode. Still misty-eyed as I type.

[quote] I don't much care for this show but episodes like these I really treasure and will revisit them in the future for sure.

Mary!

Sela Ward, bitches.

[quote]I liked his tits, personally.

Yeah his tits seemed oddly prominent for his body, I wondered if they were pec implants.

I loved this episode too. Very beautiful, sad and well done.

I know people who have trouble paying attention and thinking about things don't like this show. But if you're patient, and enjoy the show for what it is, you're rewarded with an excellent episode like Sunday night's.

Westworld is by far the best series currently on television.

[quote]Westworld is by far the best series currently on television.

Looking at the state of dramas Better Call Saul, The Americans, Handmaid's Tale, The Crown, Game of Thrones...then probably I'd put Westworld.

I mean airing right now.

"The Terror" which just finished up on AMC is better than this season of "Westworld."

For anyone who just tuned into Westworld for the first time, this episode pretty much addressed what the show is about. Extremely well done.

I really enjoyed the Shogun episode with Maeve but this was even better! The episodes centering on Dolores have been the weak link this season.

[quote] Westworld is by far the best series currently on television.

Nonsense. Season one was among the best in 2016. Season two is not competing in any way. I've seen better and more adult filmmaking in practically all shows I've been watching this year. This season is on a par with shows like the CW's Arrow.

The latest episode was mostly well made, something that's been totally lacking the past few weeks. However, even if it was a beautiful episode to a point the show's pretty much already destroyed its credibility. They can try to hide the show's flaws with the almost overbearing score but that doesn't change the fact that they've failed to make the androids believable as living and feeling entities. They should've definitely made more episodes like this with more adult storytelling and where things are left a bit mysterious. That goes only for the parts with the Native Americans. In other scenes we once again had childish dialogue and terrible directing.

The reality is the story hasn't really progressed that much from season one. And for heaven's sake, these guys build totally human-like robots and complex A.I.s, how hard it is to create a lighting system that doesn't constantly go on and off while all other systems seem to work just fine? Yes yes, we know that in an emergency lights sometimes do that. You don't have to hammer it in days or even weeks after the robot uprising. That's just another stupidity that makes this season so groanworthy. It's like they are making the show for children.

Ha r465! When I saw her I said "wow, they must have taken her out of cold storage!" Haven't seen sela ward in ages, she looks really good though.

I wonder if Evan Rachel Wood got Sela's foot in the door. They know each other from Once and Again.

R474 You're so obnoxious. Go away.

R477, many people are disappointed with this season and there's nothing wrong with voicing our concerns. If you want unbridled fangurling head over to reddit.

BTW, you have quite a nerve trying to run people off here. Judging by your posts you sound like a 15 year old straight girl.

It wasn't just the normal lights flickering, they also had the obvious LEDs in the main workroom flicker as well for some reason. That part did make me laugh. And [italic]are[/italic] emergency lights supposed to flicker? Isn't their only purpose to shine constantly and reliably until the moment their backup energy source goes out? It's not like there was an earthquake in Westworld that damaged all the wiring in that place.

Anyway, technical things like these don't really make the show any less good for me. But whatever, different people focus on different things in shows and that's perfectly fine and valid.

The lights are on the same computer network that is malfunctioning. I cannot believe some of you are this stupid.

R480, the problem with the flickering lights is that it's a really cheap trick, and it's being used heavy-handedly. It's obviously a small thing but tells of much bigger problems in the production.

I think there's a lot to love about this show. And I care about Mave, and her daughter. And the Indian this week. For whatever reason, I do find myself emotionally invested in the show.

I also think there are some very fine performances. Ed Harris, Jimmi Simpson, Mave, Dolores, and of course Anthony Hopkins. Holy shit, Hopkins is wonderful. Just as creepy as he was in Magic 4o years ago.

The cinematography is stunningly beautiful at times. But, for me, best of all is the score. by Ramin Djawadi. He's the genius who does the score for Game of Thrones. And his arrangements of those classic rock and grunge songs are out of this world. The Shogun World version of Paint it Black is like aural Prozac to me. It's thrilling. It makes me smile, makes me tear up, gives me goosebumps. I know he does GoT concerts- I hope he does a Westworld one some day.

Kiksuya was art. It was transcendent.

The image of the facility in the ground being built in the desert ("The Door") from years ago seen by Ake was downright creepy looking. I'm assuming it's finished now and the hosts will be going there. Probably not a good thing as Ford always liked the hosts better than humans. Whatever it is and does will be cool to see, though.

Yes, Ramin Djawadi's 'Heart-Shaped Box' piano solo was haunting.

The trailer for tonights episode, Vanishing Point, has intriqued me for a week. I hope this isn't the MIB's swan song, I enjoy Ed Harris. His wife supposedly killed herself for finding out he's done very bad things at Westworld. As far as I can tell he never killed a human only hosts so it doesn't make sense to me that she would commit suicide over that since it's not really real. There has to be another explanation and I guess I'll find out soon or I'm totally wrong about the whole thing.

I assumed she killed herself becsuse he turns into an abusive asshole of a husband.

Yes! This bitch is chewing the scenery for her one episode

I knew something bad was going to happen when Ford passed William his profile card and said "Be careful what you wish for".

It was a bad idea, Dolores.

So he killed his daughter on father's day?? This sadistic bastards

The irony of this episode airing on Father's day occurred to me as well r491.

[quote]I assumed she killed herself becsuse he turns into an abusive asshole of a husband.

Basically admit. Confirmation that she was married to a psycho, sadistic bastard who didn't give a damn about her or about his life in the real world at all.

This season has an almost non-existent, fairly inconsequential plot. The episodes have been a lot more impressionistic. Each one, especially these past few episodes, are pieces of art, collections of beautiful sounds, colors, feelings and dialogue almost unto themselves.

Was Ben Barnes on tonight’s episode?

No r494, but the preview showed he will be in the finale.

Well, they're just killing everyone off.

No Season 3, I take it.

Season 3 is confirmed.

What will they do? They've destroyed everything.

Maybe it’ll be about hunting hosts in the real world. Or maybe they will jump forward, to after they’ve “fixed” the park. And there will be some new threat.

Sela Ward looks fantastic

Her husband is running for Senate as a Democrat R500 :D!

I've come to the conclusion that this season was written by a group of teen girls in a booze filled writing workshop. Physically they may or may not have been teens, or female.

I'm actually embarrassed for Jonathan Nolan.

[quote]Sela Ward looks fantastic

She does. At first I thought she was way too young to be playing Ed Harris wife, but she is only 6 years younger than him which is less than it looked like on screen.

I'm finally on Insta so give me a follow, homos!

Aren't I just the prettiest Skarsgård you ever did see?

They killed off the hottest character!

That really made no sense.

WTF will they do for Season 3? Keep mopping up blood and corpses? Jump back in time to Muppet Baby Ford? Jump ahead 100 years to hosts in space?

Who, Teddy? He was in the water with the rest of the host. Thats not the end for him.

Shot in the head (self-inflicted) sure seems like the end for him.

This series has sucked big time. They're using violence in place of good storylines.

Sela Ward for the win.

I've found the best way to enjoy the show is to just watch it and not worry so much about figuring it all out or wondering which time line we're in. There isn't really anything linear about it so trying to force it in to that paradigm just causes frustration.

I have no idea what's happening on this show...but I still enjoy it.

I'm like Homer watching Twin Peaks.

if we don't get a scene of Teddy being double fucked by willy and his drug addict lush bro in law I am going hit the ceiling~!

Y'all's holes ain't [italic]ready[/italic] for tonight's finale!

This is less than satisfying.

Yawn! Just end already - they had like 5 fade-to-black scene where I thought "finally!" No more sad sack Bernard or blood thirsty downer Dolores.

Hope you stayed for the after credits scene.

Where's the smoke monster?

I feel like they could've gotten to the mildly satisfying "sneak out in Hale's image" crux with a bit more grace. I generally like the multiple timeline setup, but the editing was not done as well as it could have been done. And where did she send the host Eden? Presumably to Arnold's villa, but that should have been confirmed.

That being said, the widescreen visuals were glorious. And the symmetry of Bernard finding his own voice was touching, even if it felt way too laborious to get there.

Like I said before, I want a version of this show cut into chronological order. I wonder if it would be even half as interesting.

[quote]That being said, the widescreen visuals were glorious

So we’ll be in the “real world”next season and we won’t have any of those great nature vistas anymore? I guess filming will be a lot cheaper.

the western motif::::boring as fuk

total waste of some prime beef.

do a naked one in the jungle..

I can't believe they fucking killed Elsie. For a second fucking time.

Overall I was far from blown away, but the premise of Season 3 taking place in the real world is an intriguing change of pace.

This show takes itself too seriously. It's a labor to watch. The only reason I kept watching were the visuals.

I enjoyed it but this really should have been the series finale. I thought Hopkins phoned it in last season but he really stepped it up this time around. He should film as many poignant death scenes as possible before he dies himself. So, so good.

Trust Ben Barnes to worm his way into the finale and assume a prominent role.

Here is an intereview with the writer about finale. One thing she makes clear is that the post-credit scene with William reliving the loop takes place in the future, everything you saw him struggle with this season happened to human William in the shows present timeline.

They've killed off every character I care about. Why would I come back?

The score at the beginning when Dolores was riding a horse sounded like I was watching an episode of Outlander. I'm glad Djawadi got "inspired" by McCreary's wonderful work on that show.

r527 See, things like that just weren't established well enough. He looked too similar with that hand wound for me to consider that scene taking place in the future. Messing with the timelines is fine if there's a big emotional payoff in the end. Can anyone here really say it was all worth it last night? I can't, I was sobbing during Mae's final moments instead. But my head hurt too much to get anything out of that Tessa Thompson reveal.

Stick a fork in this show, it’s done. This season was a complete mess, and the puzzle box form of the show is trite and cliche. Won’t be returning next season. Really unfortunate it went this route, but Nolan really never had a full grasp of the material, and the showrunner is incapable of fixing the many many issues this show has.

What turned me off the most is what a BLOODBATH the show turned into. Just blowing people away left and right, violence and fightin and shootin and killin. If you added up how many times someone got shot this season, it'd be into the millions.

I didn't care enough about Maeve to feel anything when she "died" because knowing that she's a robot, the chances of her coming back were high. Same about Dolores, no matter what body she's in now, and I had more than enough of Bernard wandering around all confused. Feh.

[quote]This show takes itself too seriously.

It does. It is very much up its own ass about how supposedly deep and intelligent it is. Which causes it to lose some of its heart and entertainment value.

I still enjoy watching it, but it is a noticeable fault.

A nice write-up of everything I - and some others here - find wrong with this season and just this show in general.

We need more artsy bottle episodes, if you ask me!

To the person who said Westworld won't be coming back- it's already been renewed for season 3. Though, there is reason to suspect that will be the last.

[quote]Though, there is reason to suspect that will be the last.

What reason is that? From what I've seen in interviews the showrunners have either a 5 or 6 year plan, can't remember exactly what they said, but definitely longer than three.

The finale felt seven hours long.

People compare "Westworld" to "Lost" in a non-complimentary way but with all of the timey-wimey back and forth and big concepts of "Lost" at the base of was the character relationships. Those relationships were the hub to which you can always return to even with flashbacks and flashforwards and flash-sideways. That isn't there with "Westworld" - even with though Team Maeve had elements of that. All that this show has to lean on is its concept and if that is too unwieldy that people have to resort to recaps and forums to comprehend the goings-on, that's a real problem.

I agree R537 which is why Episode 8 - Ghost Nation - was so well received.

Two years until Season 3. I'm not getting any younger HBO.

I got tired of the whiny robots and being told repeatedly how terrible humans were. It was hard for me to feel sympathy for anyone as there was no real character development, only endless violence. The only relationship I felt was pretty promising was between Bernard and Elsie's but they ended up shoot her. I liked Elsie, she was one of the nerdy techs.

And why would the British guy/writer sacrifice his life so Maeve could find her daughter? Completely senseless behavior that was entirely unconvincing. If it weren't for the production values, this would really suck. I can't understand why some people are praising season 2. It was a piece of shit.

Most of the critics have not been praising season 2, r540. They've said they find it cold and self-indulgent --just a series of puzzles within puzzles. Alan Sepinwall, probably the most influential TV critic in the US right now, has particularly disliked it.

I meant I won’t be returning next season R534. The show is an unholy mess. I know it was picked up, though really, they could have ended it here.

This show is Lost minus the feels combined with the worst parts of Battlestar Galactica (who’s the new robot this week?) it’s ridiculous.

The British guy sacrificed himself because he had fallen in love with Maeve. the twist is that he created Maeve’s robot lover as his dream persona, kind of like The twist in Fight Club with Pitt being Ed Norton’s dream persona. British dude wanted to finally be a hero in his own right. He finally saw the robots as beings deserving of freedom so he gave them the chance to get away.

Well that was lame. SPOILERRRR

SPOILERRRR

Same ending as Season 1, but no, Maeve had to come back. I guess Futureworld will be S3.

Great finale. This thread is full of haters. You guys are the worst critics ever.

I want to fuck Teddy

So the MIB and Luke Hemsworth are both hosts.

A good explanation of what happened:

[quote]This thread is full of haters.

Grow up. No wonder you don't understand the faults some people see in the show if that is how simply you think.

Would it hurt this show to crack a joke now and then?

People on my FB feed are talking about how bad this season is, and the dialogue. People who loved the first season.

Does this show have a full outline already, or are the writers just making it up as they go?

It may end up being like "Lost" where you think they have a reason and surprise, they really didn't.

The ratings speak for themselves. Westworld was down 24% for the Season 2 finale compared to the season 2 premiere.

It’s like Lost R553, they say they know, but they obviously are writing on the fly and don’t have a clue. For example, the Stubbs robot reveal in the last scene of the finale was written the night before they shot the scene. They just suddenly decided he would be a robot. Mmhmm. Unlike Lost however, there is no emotional payoff. How can there be any stakes when the bots can just keep uploading themselves? They can’t really die. No one cares if the humans die because they’re all assholes, other than say like Ellie.

That was so terrible.

I can totally imagine Lisa and Jonathan saying yes to each other a lot when it comes to Westworld. Same shit as with Snyder and his wife.

The fact that the finale needs a 17 minute "explainer" video says it all, doesn't it?

It was just terrible! So long and convoluted with so many lame plot twists and reveals and so much body switching. Fucking stupid. AND THEN I thought it had mecifully ended and it just kept going. I won’t watch Westworld if it comes back. It went from borderline brilliant in season one to SyFy-worthy trash.

If you hate this show so much why you keep watching it. You people are so odd.

IKR. If it sucks then go and watch something else.

Worst thread ever.

So how the fuck did Hemsworth know she was a Host? That whole conversation was tense and great but... how the fuck did he know? And is HE a host? And if so, when the fuck was HE swapped out?

I got that he was specifically trained to recognize super-hosts, as he'd worked for Ford.

Whether he is one or not remains vague.

Stubbs said he was hired by Ford "more years ago than he could remember." So he's been in Westworld from the beginning and he's always been a host.

[bold]Welcome to TV's golden age of "What the hell did I just watch?"[/bold]

[quote]In fact, Westworld is just one of a modern breed of deliberately obfuscating shows that demand to be worked in order to—or sometimes, rather than—enjoyed.

I ended up liking this season, even if it really tries your patience. So they are in a secret matrix that never loses its batteries? Okay.

They should put on real robots on the show so it references prssenent day, since that technology is changing so fast.

[quote]And is HE a host? And if so, when the fuck was HE swapped out?

Stubbs is a host. From The Wrap's interview with Lisa Joy.

TheWrap: When Halores left the beach, it seemed like Stubbs knew it was Dolores — or at least that it wasn’t Hale. Is that safe to assume?

Joy: Yes! It is safe to assume. And there is a step further that you can assume too. And we don’t say it explicitly, but if you are left wondering with all [Stubbs’] talk, his knowing talk about, “I’ve been at the park a very long time,” and Ford designed him with certain core drives, and he’s gonna stick to the role he’s been programmed with; it’s a little acknowledgement of just why he might have his suspicions about what’s going on with Hale, and then lets her pass.

And doesn’t it make sense if you are Ford and designing a park and you have a whole master plan about helping robots that you would keep one Host hiding in plain sight as a fail-safe? Maybe the Host who’s in charge of quality assurance? And by the way, that was totally meant to be subtle.

Game of Thrones easter egg.

I loved the philosophical implications of season one. That’s why I watched season two. I didn’t hate-watch it; however, after the first few episodes I did bank new ones on my DVR until I had enough energy stored up for the often exhausting task of watching this MC Escher idea unfold and collapse in on itself over and over. The Maeve storyline kept me engaged, and then the American Indian episode was beautifully done. I lost interest in the others because as I saw it there were no more real stakes and there was no nuance to the characters as programmed/written. The finale for me was an overlong mishmash of all the most frustrating elements of the series, and it was just too much for me. I stuck with it and ultimately there was no payoff for me. That’s not the same as watching a show for the sake of hating it, as people here are suggesting. I LOVED season one and I’m disappointed that it devolved into what it did. Ford is Arnold and Arnold is Ford and Delores is created by Ford-Arnold-Ford and killed by Ford-Arnold-Ford who she programmed to progeam her, but then she hopped into the body of the evil villainess, gave the evil villainess a sassy speech and killed her and then recreated and replicated herself into her former body and let Ford-Arnold-Ford-Ford-Arnold-Delos-Ford-Ford-Arnold-VR-Matrix-Arnold live so she could have an adversary virtual reality robot. I’m sure it would make a pretty geometric design if mapped out visually, but it is a mess of a story.

I just watched the finale and thought it was fantastic. Visually and in ideas presented.

I hope Thandir Newton is Emmy nominated- she was extraordinary

I think we will see Delores fully explored in season 3. She was in gtf outta here mode this season so we see her doing whatever she needed to do to get out into the real world. Or maybe not. I agree r573 maeve was amazing! The scene with the samurai was the most powerful female performance I have ever seen.

The real world timeline is 2052.

How do you know that R575 ?

R571 - you're a good writer and you perfectly encapsulated what I found so frustrating about this season. I hope you're a regular here!

R575, which timeline is that?

There are so many of them.

[bold]HBO boss defends Westworld after backlash: 'Not for casual viewers'[/bold]

[quote]HBO programming chief Casey Bloys was asked at the Television Critics Association’s press tour in Beverly Hills on Wednesday about the “widespread backlash” to the prestige sci-fi drama.

[quote]“I’m not sure I would agree that the backlash was ‘widespread,'” Bloys said. “We’re thrilled about the Emmy nominations. What I love about Westworld is that the people who love it really love it. Even the people who dislike it feel the need to discuss it and talk about it and let you know they dislike and debate it. And for a show to arouse that kind of feeling, that’s what we want.”

[quote]As for whether the season was too confusing, Bloys pushed back on that. “We sent out the first five episodes [to critics] and most of the reviews felt the storytelling had been clarified. Look, it’s not for casual viewers. It requires your attention. [Showrunners Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy] like to challenge their viewers and many feel they are rewarded by that. It’s a unique show and that’s what we look for.”

The MiB character looks like James Spader to me (the hats).

Great insight, R580. Anyone else or should we shut this one down?

DL is going to enjoy this one...

Is that a tranz?

R582 Isn't that our favorite Vanity Fair covergirl?

It's coming in 2020.

[quote]The producers are being tight-lipped on the character but I hear Cassel will play a new villain and will be a series regular. He will co-star alongside another high-profile new series regular for Season 3, Breaking Bad alum [bold]Aaron Paul.[/bold]