Have you ever been to Switzerland?

Geneva citizens have all the worst qualities of the French, and it is a really sterile place.

As for Zurich, ain't the assisted suicide capital of the world for nothing.

The food is simple, a touch boring, but good and about twice the cost of a similar meal in Brussels or Paris.

I thought most Swiss are extremely conservative and homophobic? Is there a well-known Swiss celebrity or even such a thing as gay Swiss porn? I'd like to see it.

Did the Swiss invent marshmallows?

What r1 said, exactly.

As for what r2 said -- they're deeply conservative, but not as overtly homophobic as, say, US Bible-thumpers. Geneva is one of the country's "islands" of cosmopolitanism, i.e., a very clean, very expensive ghetto for foreigners. But if you go into the countryside, it's direly staid and stodgy.

I've been several times, and I'd shoot myself in the head if I ever had to live there. Fortunately, that won't be an issue because the country is totally unaffordable for anyone who's not either Swiss (and therefore earning local currency), or filthy rich.

Interestingly, the Swiss are not at all xenophobic when the skeevy foreigners are ultra-rich, like, say, African dictators and Chinese oligarchs. This way to the numbered bank accounts, Sir!

It's a good place to recuperate if you've been sick. There's a peacefulness to it, but probably very dull otherwise.

Geneva IS really dull. Zurich is more interesting and lively.

Go to some of the smaller towns: Bern, Basel, etc, which have a storybook feel to them. The mountains and the countryside are breathtakingly beautiful. It's a very clean, orderly place, as you'd expect. Food is good but I don't recall it as remarkable. Except for the sweets and chocolates. I never got to spend much time in the Italian-speaking part of Switzerland but would like to.

Been in Zurich. Manicured and boring.

^ you haven't seen Geneva, have you?

Geneva's most thrilling landmark >>

Geneva's godfather.

I was going to go to University in Geneva and was sent for the summer to learn spoken French. They have courses at the university in the summer.

All I did was hang out by the lake all summer, smoke pot and skip class.

I turned down the offer to go to the University. I didn't want to learn French with a Swiss accent. I wanted to go to Paris. But my father wouldn't hear of it. So I went to New York and fucked up my English accent instead. God, I was stupid. But I guess it's helped me navigate the pages of Datalounge and I can contribute to the nostalgic New York threads.

Poor R11. Life must be so hard for you.

I've been to paradise, but I've never been to me.

You have NO idea what my life is like, R12.

[quote]Geneva citizens have all the worst qualities of the French

and what are they?

Frolicking on Lake Geneva.

I've been to Switzerland several times - Geneva, Zurich, Zermatt, St. Moritz. Get on a train and see some gorgeous scenery. They have nice hikes. You can actually swim in Lake Zurich which is incredible being able to do that in the middle of a large city. They have a bunch of lakeside areas for swimming that have decks like the one in R16 and small cafe and changing area. The food is good. I went to some nice cafes and it's very walkable. I went to some evening festival that was very eclectic, cool and crowded. Everything is expensive. The people are not too friendly. Some store clerks are downright hostile and nasty but waiters are very nice. Zermatt was incredible. I was the balcony of my hotel breathing deep trying to get high off the oxygen. The alpine air is incredible.

Sounds like most of the replies came from 2 posters. Switzerland is conservative in many ways but it's not homophobic.

I went to "high school" there in an exclusive all-male private school very near Lac Léman (Lake Geneva). Because it was all boys, no one gave a good goddamn if we fooled around.

have we seen swisschick lately?

The people are extremely dull and have 0 sense of humor. Imagine Roger Federer only duller.

It's a good place to go to pop out a special needs child.

Lucerne was one of the most beautiful places I've ever been.

Gay Pride Zurich, 2017.

A sober affair.

Yes. A very beautiful and chillingly expensive country (a double espresso cost something like 6-7 Euros!) However, I've never met more passive aggressive people in my life than the Swiss (in the German part, at least - Bern, Luzern, and Zurich) and coming from Toronto myself, I considered that a no small feat!

[quote] I never got to spend much time in the Italian-speaking part of Switzerland but would like to.

gur' - I don't think they speak Italian there.

It's just like the other parts of Switzerland with a more Italianate flavor.

Been to Zurich and Davos. Forgettable. What I remembered most is the Inn we stayed (surrounded by hills and woods) in Davos seemed haunted.

Only Geneva so not typical of the bulk of the Swiss population. Very pretty and quaint. Incredibly expensive.

OP mentioned that Geneva seemed gay-friendly even in the 1950s, there had been some sort of gay/lesbian movement in Switzerland since the early 1930s (!)

I grew up in Geneva, OP. It's quite dull but has gotten better. People can be quite fussy, but nothing a Datalounger can't handle. There is terric food, but it will cost you.

There'a good film about Zurich as a gay haven in the 1950s called THE CIRCLE (2014). It's on Amazon Video for a small charge.

I can tell you - if I'd been British (or English) and gay in the 1950s - I would have gone to Geneva. Who cares if it was dull?

[quote]There'a good film about Zurich as a gay haven in the 1950s called THE CIRCLE (2014). It's on Amazon Video for a small charge.

Looks heavy going. Based on a true story.

Interesting:

[quote]Same-sex sexual acts between adults have been legal in Switzerland since 1942. The age of consent has been equal for heterosexual and homosexual sex since 1992. There has been legal recognition for same-sex relationships since 2007.

It's considered the Switzerland of Europe.

That's fascinating R33 in that you have to wonder why, in the middle of WW2, they decided to make same-sex acts legal.

I bet there's a story behind it.

Yes, it does seem odd that they were busying themselves with such a law in the middle of WW2.

[quote]I bet there's a story behind it.

Yes - I wonder.

I spent a few days in Geneva during an European tour in the 80's and I loved it. I loved the beauty and calmness of it. It kind of spoiled me though because when I returned I would look at where I was and wonder why I wasn't born in lovely Geneva.

It's also the only country in Europe (most likely, in the world) where absinthe in its real form has been legal for ages now.

They didn't give women the right to vote in federal elections until 1971. One area held out until 1991 for local elections. I find it all hilarious.

The people there can be reserved but are generally friendly once they get to know you. The scenery is like living in a storybook. The men can be devastatingly gorgeous. I'd move there in a heartbeat. Of the two, I'd choose Zurich.

the gay rights thing had been cooking since the early '30s >

GLBTQ Rights

[quote]The first gay and lesbian organizations in Switzerland date from the 1930s. "Amicitia" ("Friendship"), a lesbian social organization, was established in Zurich in 1931; "Der Kreis" (The Circle), was founded as a male homosexual group in Zurich in 1932. From these groups grew a homophile journal, Schweizerisches Freundschafts-Banner (Swiss Banner of Friendship), which began publishing in1932 to argue for the decriminalization of homosexuality. It would later be renamed Der Kreis. Although the Swiss Federal Assembly had recommended the decriminalization of homosexuality in the early 1930s, the reform did not become official until 1942, making Switzerland among the first European countries to repeal laws prohibiting homosexual acts among adults. The impetus for reform was less a concern for justice and equality under the law than a desire on the part of legislators to remove what they considered a distasteful subject from political debate. Despite the reform, homosexuality continued to be associated with crime, especially after the 1957 murders of two middle-class gay men by male prostitutes. Gay bars and other meeting places were routinely raided by the police and an official list of "registered homosexuals" was compiled.

You can drink the water in Lac Leman/Geneva also.

I've seen very few photos of Switzerland that aren't stunningly beautiful. Of course, I'm sure the big cities have their dodgy areas, but those would be easy enough to avoid. I love hiking and mountains, so I can't see myself being bored there (at least not on a vacation), although Geneva would not be high on my list. I'm a fan of Stephane Lambiel who lives with his partner in Champery. He was outed in the Swiss media a few years ago, although he never discusses his sexuality. I don't know if it is because he is from a conservative Catholic region or just personal choice. In any case, I don't think it's been a big issue for him.

I knew a German guy who got caught with a small amount of weed crossing the border and he ended up having to serve some jail time. Now, that was several years ago, and I see they have since decriminalized possession of up to 10 grams. So maybe it's becoming less conservative than it used to be.

Switzerland is....odd.

I have friends working in Geneva; getting a long-term apartment as a non-citizen is close to impossible. They sublet 4-5 places per year.

Apartment buildings, by law, have fallout shelters in them. Dull, dull, dull. First and only time I paid $50 for a haircut.

CERN is interesting. Lucerne is quite pretty.

"What did you bring back from there that you still keep as a memento?"

HIV

I visited Lausanne and they had a museum of drawings and other art work by people in a mental asylum. That was nice.

I found the people very efficient and polite, like Germans I'd dealt with in Frankfurt and Munich - a bit milder-mannered but no less OCD when it comes to cleanliness - scraping spittle off the sidewalks in front of their shops, that sort of thing.

Too hilly for me (I'm old) and I don't have the money - otherwise, I think it would be a great place to retire. I don't remember the food though I got sick of sausage and boozed-up pretty cakes in Germany - in Switzerland, lots of fondue? basically zzzzz.

I went for a week a few years ago with my boyfriend - it was my first time to Europe and it took my breath away. We went way up into the Alps and it was off-season (early Spring) so there weren't crowds and it was just the most beautiful fucking experience of my life. I would love to go back. I'd never even been to any mountains before and it was like finding where I belonged. Now every vacation we take we go to mountains - fuck beaches, fuck cities, I just want to sit on top of a mountain drinking a beer and being swallowed up by the vastness.

Met a Swiss couple at a party years ago. Everything was, "why you you Americans THIS and THAT...?"...constant bitching about American culture and politics...I had to excuse myself. Couldn't get away from them fast enough.

Also, it was summertime in Philadelphia, and they were, like most Europeans, deodorant-free...

Switzerland is very pretty.

But Zurich is "If the Germans had Won World War II."

Ticino is organized Italy and well worth a visit.

[quote]like most Europeans, deodorant-free...

You get used to it.

Stephanie Lambiel is GAY? But he kissed my hand at Stars on Ice!!!

What's the current gay scene like?

I worked in Zurich and Geneva around the turn of the millennium. Zurich was ok to look at but dull. Walking around the centre of Zurich at lunchtime you could hear a pin drop and it was busy. People were polite but very reserved. The place lacked warmth. I chatted in a gay bar to a friendly German, who had been living there for several years. He was lonely and wanted to move back home but couldn't come close to matching his income or job opportunities there. The Swiss barman who overheard our chatted nodded and added that Zurich is all about money.

Geneva, on the other hand, had no redeeming features. The only smiles or civility came from foreigners who lived there. I found the locals to be be borderline hostile, including serving staff. To call the city boring would be an insult to boredom. The best thing about the place were the peaks reminding you that on the other side of was France. It was like being on the wrong side of the Berlin Wall.

Switzerland puzzles over citizenship test after lifelong resident fails

Funda Yilmaz, 25, was turned down for Swiss citizenship despite living all her life in the country and being fluent in her local dialect

"In January this year a Dutch woman had her application turned down for a second time because local residents objected to her campaign against cowbells. And in May 2016, a Kosovan family who were long-term residents of the canton of Basel-Country had their application for citizenship opposed by the residents’ committee, in part because they wore jogging bottoms around town."

Switzerland is Datalounge

LOL to why they turn down applications for citizenship. Total fun.

Why is Switzerland so much more expensive than the rest of Europe? It's not like it's an island like Hawaii or New Zealand.

this article says it can be compared to an island...surrounded by EU-countries

Some of the world's highest wages. An experienced waiter earns $75K a year.

Very protectionist economy. Food imports are astronomical, to protect Swiss farmers. Hence the $35 cheeseburger in a Zurich brewpub.

Talking of which - back in the early 80s when I was a keen McDonald's goer - McDonald's in Geneva was a cut above the rest. I guess standards were higher there and the higher quality of all the ingredients was remarkable.

They want to keep out the undesirables, R57. It's the Palm Beach of Europe (but without the slight antisemitism and the dreadful Florida humidity). Beautiful, exclusive, expensive, clean...revel in the luxury but bring a suitcase of money with you.

The generally mild food is a matter of taste but I like it. The Swiss national dish is veal simmered in cream, called by various names: escalopes de veau à la crème, Geschnetzeltes Kalbfleisch, etc. Fondue Neuchâteloise is the classic cheese fondue with Gruyère and Emmental. A popular and strange dish is raclette. What you'll be served is a blob of melted cheese with boiled potatoes, sour gherkins and perhaps some type of charcuterie.

I've never found a Swiss wine worth drinking, though the light-bodied red Dôle de Sion is passable.

This analysis put Switzerland as the second most expensive country in the world.

Another analysis, comparing the cost of big macs in every country, found Switzerland was the most expensive country.

I'm Norwegian so I can relate to living in an expensive country. Everything here is expensive as fuck, probably because we have a 25 % VAT. Norwegians rarely go out to eat because it's too expensive. Most families just have dinner at home.

[quote]Cost of living in Norway is 50.12% higher than in United States

R53: You're right about Geneva! I was there for work on a Y2K IT project in 1999. Very boring, cold and rude. Even the foreign cashiers in McDonalds had an attitude! All I remember are rude servers, the fountain, yachts, clocks and chocolate. No Thanks!

what's the cock situation like?

The cuckoo clocks are to die for, though!

Jesus, R54, judging by those questions anyone would think the poor girl was up before the board of a New York condo.

I visited geneva in 2009 for the first time with my partner, and we both felt like we still were in germany. It didnt feel like we were in a distint country apart from germany. I also thought that they were quite like french people, but even though tbey speak french, they are closer to germans.

We were not stunned either by its natural beauty, in general I think it is a very overrated country. Andorra is more exotic and fun than Switzerland.

I don't know about Geneva, but how about scenery like this:

Or this:

Or this:

Lucerne, Stein am Rhein, Zermatt, and a host of other places are stunning. Would that I were Swiss.

R69, The main drag of Andorra is the tackiest strip of garish neon-lit stores in the Western world!

[quote]I'm Norwegian so I can relate to living in an expensive country. Everything here is expensive as fuck, probably because we have a 25 % VAT.

I have a feeling it's all about your oil.

[quote]I'm Norwegian so I can relate to living in an expensive country.

You're not the famous Norwegian from the weather threads, are you?

Good to see you!

I wonder if other Europeans find the Swiss as unfriendly as the Americans posting on this thread.

Lived in Geneva for years. It's not a Swiss city at all as it is overrun with international bureaucrats working at the international organizations and NGOs and French frontaliers crossing the border everyday to do the cheap jobs.

Not being a Swiss city is a good thing as the Swiss are largely miserable gits, very unfriendly and hostile to foreigners. So Geneva's OK for a foreign gay man, Lausanne's more provincial (and a much prettier city), the other French-speaking towns are boring.. Neuchatel being the most boring place on Earth. I don't recommend the German speaking cities because they are even worse than the French speakers and you have to listen to Swiss German being spoken which is a painful experience.

Sveezza Deechah?

I once visited Lugano in the mid 90s with a couple of friends. We went to a Burger King that was bit more pricey than in the US but the burgers and fries were fresh to order. The meat tasted more like a juicy burger than your typical American Burger King burger.

I thought all that oil money meant that most Norwegians have the disposable income of a Saudi prince?

Been to Geneva, Lucerne and Locarno.

Geneva was so boring I could die. Couldn't wait to get out of there. The only pamphlet I saw was very clear: they care about one thing, keeping their own money! Not the same type of problems the French have.

Lucerne was pretty, I enjoyed it but wouldn't have stayed longer.

Locarno and Lago Maggiore during the Film Festival in August were a blast. Loved it, would do it again if someone comes along that I want to see there.

Waking up to the view of the mountains over the lake was like nothing I'd ever seen before in my life. That's worth going, unless you have that type of scenery nearby.

How, R81? We have a 30-40 % income tax, 25 % VAT and don't even get me started on the cost of stuff like gas, electricity etc.

Hey, Norwegian! Good to see you. Was just in Bergen this May and boy was it GODDAMN EXPENSIVE. We literally couldn't eat anywhere, all we had was the buffet at our hostel in the morning, then in the evening some luttefisk (forget the exact name), and that's it. One day we had pizza - bad idea - easily the worst pizza I've ever eaten in my life, and the most expensive!

That said, what a gorgeous place, and all the time we spent there was well worth it. Couldn't afford to stay an hour more, though!

I've been to Switzerland, but I've never been to me.

That's the third time with that joke, R86.

If you want to talk about wealthy, very pretty European countries, where I found people to be friendly and helpful, we should talk about Luxembourg.

Why don't you start a thread R88?

If you don't speak german at all, would Swiss German sound that much worse than regular german to hear constantly?

R85 I'm glad you liked Bergen. It's a much better city to visit than boring and ugly Oslo. How was the weather, did it rain? Yes, the city is very expensive, as is most of Norway. I agree the food is not that great and it's fucking expensive. Like I said, Norwegians rarely go out to eat because it's just too damn expensive.

That Norwegian gurl is obsessed with the weather.

The Norwegian gal is actually just impressed by herself, managing to work Norway into almost every single thread. Almost more compulsive then Canadians that way.

I only ever see her on the weather threads.

R87, I didnt see it here. I must have missed it. It is a DL staple.

My ancestors migrated to Pennsylvania in the 1700's from a small town outside of Zurich. I visited this town last year and people were so welcoming - an American who was so interested in his Swiss heritage. I've been to Zurich several times too. Love Zermatt though. Found a flat in Zermatt with a view of the Matterhorn and cooked my own food. Food prices in the local store in Zermatt were similar to U.S. grocery store. Got a great deal on the flat (having stayed there before and left the place spotless) and was able live without breaking the bank. Just providing my input. Switzerland isn't for everyone. For me, I'm not a fan of France - but that is for another thread.

The weather was gorgeous in Bergen, I'd brought my sunglasses and they were put to good use! A little rain the morning we were leaving.

Fun to see the artistic expression of your queen Sonja at KODE1.

Went to Håkonshallen for a concert, and Troldsalen in Troldhaugen. Also went to Logen Teater.

We had a sandwich that was very good. It might have been prawn. I forget the name of the bakery but I think there were several with that name across town.

However, 400 NOK for tapas, no matter how good! I don't think so! That's how we ended up with the dreadful pizza. With the money leftover I bought a map from Bergen and the surroundings (again, the prices were insane... A similar map would have cost 1/3 of the price in PARIS, where I live... Anyway, no complaints, Bergen was great)

Interesting, R96. I wonder why they fled to America.

R98 If I understand correctly, they were concerned that the men in the family would be required to join the Holy Roman Empire Empire. Perhaps some were, but we have no records. I am very proud of this branch of the family how they gave up so much from their homeland and took the chance to emigrate when they did.

Has anyone mentioned that they've never been to me yet?

The Swiss are very sophisticated for a rural society, but the "big cities" which are small are provincial even by US standards. Yakima has more worldliness than Lucerne.

R25, they speak Swiss Italian and Ticinese in Ticino and Graubüden.

weird - one small country that speaks so many different languages.

Can you imagine the leaving the splendor of Switzerland to end up in Pennsylvania of all god forsaken places?

/Graubünden

R103, And also Romansh. And in Romandy, not only do they speak French, but also Arpitan.

And, the dialects of Swiss German are incomprehensible from Standard German.

Living there is nuts. If you need to wash clothes on a special, not- scheduled day, the neighbors flip their shit. It's boring and very overpriced.

If traveling through, their duty free and airlines they allow in there are amazing!

They certainly don't look like tourists.....

Could you also STFU about Norway and/or start a new thread?

R108 must be Swiss.

Are you kidding, r90? You may not like the sound of German, but Schwyzerdütsch (that's roughly how it's pronounced) sounds more like Arabic than any European language.

They provide subtitles on German TV whenever anyone is shown speaking Swiss German, because it's simply that incomprehensible.

I have an acquaintance who left the French part of Switzerland to come to live in Toronto. He never really talked too much about Switzerland and why he had left it so, at one social gathering, I decided to finally ask him about that. He sighed and then just said: "people were so peasantlike in their attitudes."

The motto of Switzerland is 'everything that is not forbidden, is obligatory'.

Romansch - the closest living language to ancient Latin.

dollface @ link pays a visit to South Eastern Switzerland to check it out.

Two handsome men explain the differences >>

Swiss-German is the ugliest of German accents.

Naturally, my high school German teacher was Swiss.

I'm through with this thread. I'm off to an isle in Greece to see some things a woman ain't supposed to see. Then, I'm off to be with ME!!!

I think Swiss German is similar to how Scottish dialect sounds to other English speakers. And my German is far from fluent, but I can still understand Swiss German when it's spoken clearly on tv.

Switzerland is beautiful, some of it is stunning. It can also be boring. There is a reason why Hitler didn't want it.

There is a bit of misinformation in this thread. I live in the Swiss Italian region of Switzerland, Ticino, and no, we don't speak "Swiss Italian", we speak Italian (the way people in northern Italy do) and fewer and fewer of us can speak a specific dialect in addition to it. We have our own accent and a few words differ from standard Italian, but it's really nothing special. An example to explain how "Swiss Italian" works compared to English would be this: if you had to describe/introduce yourself would you say: "I speak American/Canadian English"... just because of your accent and some particular idioms?

You also have to keep in mind that Italian varies depending on the region and city, people in Milan and sicilians may have a hard time understanding each other. On the contrary people of Ticino and north Italy don't have that kind of issue most of the time.

Swiss Germans unfortunately do speak mainly dialect and are quite proud of it (some of them consider their dialect the real official Swiss language). I love German (which I had to learn at school because it's considered the most important language in Switzerland), but Swiss Germans go to great lengths not to speak it unless they have to... and yes, Swiss German is truly awful to hear.

[quote]I think Swiss German is similar to how Scottish dialect sounds to other English speakers.

Blimey, how did you decide that?

Back when I used to hitchhike around Europe, Switzerland was the toughest to get a lift by far. It was super expensive for a backpacker but it did have a large number of hostels, all very clean with duvets for bed covers.

Weather forecast in Swiss German. You've been warned.

I live in Zurich. I like it here but I hope I will be able to live abroad even if it is only for a while. I'd like to experience a bit more than only living here. Maybe with my job I'll be able to do that one day.

R114 the Swiss do say septante et nonante but it's strictly the Vaudois who say huitante. Other Suisses romandes say 'quatre-vingts'. The Swiss also love saying 'entre seulement' et 'faites seulement' which is frankly bizarre.

Well, huitante just makes sense.

I want to live in Switzerland. I want the peace and quiet.

Any of you who live in Switzerland need a husband? I have a big dick if it matters.

The picture at r71 is Lauterbrunnen and that was one of the towns I visited on my trip there that I mentioned at r46 - we stayed just up the cliffside from there in Wengen. It was just the most extraordinary fairy-tale place I have ever seen. If (or rather when) I go back I'd want to stay on the other side of the valley though, in Murren, because it was quieter there than Wengen was.

WTF is Fraulein Dinge wearing @ R122?!?

I've been to Bern and Interlaken. Very cool times were had.

The Swiss German accent when they try to speak French is hilarious.

R46/R127 Maybe Tina Turner can adopt you, I think she lives near Zürich ;)

Weatherwoman up thread sounds like she is speaking Dutch

[quote]The Swiss also love saying 'entre seulement' et 'faites seulement' which is frankly bizarre.

The originals (entrez donc, etc.) don't really make sense unless you grew up saying them. I don't get seulement at all.

[quote]Weatherwoman up thread sounds like she is speaking Dutch

Or Flemish.

[quote]Did the Swiss invent marshmallows?

No, the Egyptians.

But that little Miss made a nice, artificial version which I grew up drinking in my cocoa

The Swiss are very in to male beauty contests there for some reason.

Weatherwoman sounds like German with a Scottish accent, although Flemish might work, too.

I met a French fellow who had never heard of the word septante, finding the idea absolutely ridiculous.

I was once a chatting on a flight with a woman who went to Switzerland every so often for business. She said that frankly she wouldn't really recommend it as a tourist destination in itself for anything interesting or exciting.

Here's Roger Federer speaking Swiss German.

Around Lac Léman, some of the natives of Geneve, Vaud, Valais, Savoie and Haute-Savoie sound like these Savoyards.

I lived in Lausanne, went to school there - back in the 70s. It was full of movie stars. I saw Audrey Hepburn, Yul Brynner, Peter Ustinov, David Niven, James Mason, Jackie Onassis, Sean Connery, Alain Delon, Richard Burton, etc., various royals. Lausanne was the 'in' place for the rich and famous then. And I saw all of them wandering up and down the Rue du Bourg - the elegant shopping street.

[quote]I was once a chatting on a flight with a woman who went to Switzerland every so often for business. She said that frankly she wouldn't really recommend it as a tourist destination in itself for anything interesting or exciting.

I would describe Kansas that way, but I can think of lots of interesting things to do in Switzerland. Different strokes, I guess.

R141 Switzerland IS beautiful, stunningly so. Quiet and sedate, yes, but possibly the most beautiful country in the world.

Ice cold.

I spent eleven days there when I was last in Europe, stayed in decent but not grand hotels, chose moderately priced restaurants and took public transportation, buses and trains, everywhere. When I got back to Canada and looked at my bills I'd spent eleven grand in less than two weeks in that one country. I spent four grand in ten days in Finland which also has the reputation for being pricey. Two grand for two weeks in Portugal.

R64 you probably don't have student loan debt or high healthcare copays in Norway. That offsets the cost of living.

Swiss French isn't much stranger than Belgian French, honestly. The very proper Belgians in business speak Parisian French but many older people use antiquated terms like "s'en venir." I'm told it's used in Canada, too, though I've never heard it.

[quote]I wonder if other Europeans find the Swiss as unfriendly as the Americans posting on this thread.

Germans despise the Swiss and the French tell Swiss jokes. When I first moved to Germany, I did the usual thing of hitchhiking to get from A to B. This is/was a cultural thing in Germany. A few cars went past before a soldier stopped to give me a lift. The first thing he told me when he heard my accent is "See all those cars that went past you with Swiss number plates? They will never give you a lift - the Swiss are selfish cunts"

Years later I was resting on a bench on near the expensive end of the main shopping drag in Stuttgart - a very well-to-do city. It was a Sunday morning the shops were shut and the place deserted save for a gaggle of Swiss tourists window shopping and chatting improbably loudly nearby. "But it's all so CHEAP!" That got my back up and I wasn't even German.

I don't mind Swiss German - it sounds a bit like Lëtzeburgesch. Oddly enough, that clip of Romansch up above also sounded like Swiss German the way it was articulated - the melody and sibilance owed more to German than Italian.

Romansch is a romance language spoken with a Schwyzerdütsch accent.

Every time we go through Switzerland, I try to find a Romansch-language radio station because it's just so funky to listen to. My partner, who's from the Austrian province that borders Switzerland and understands Schwyzerdütsch always says that, based on how it sounds, he keeps thinking he should be understanding it, but then he doesn't recognize any of the words.

I actually find that language very interesting, and I hope it survives in all its oddity.

My apologies to "swiss girl" that so many people are mischaracterizing your beautiful country.

Geneva isn't Smallville, Kansas.

Good Lord, have any of you spent any time in a big US city? Try smiling at a stranger in Manhattan. They'll think you're crazy or a prostitute. And you might get robbed at gunpoint if you're pleasantly friendly to the wrong person.

Chicago is even rougher.

You actually can't walk down a street in Beverly Hills (outside the shopping district) even if you're white and look well-to-do. A police car will stop you and question who you are and where you're going. No racial profiling there: The LAPD presumes everyone is up to no good.

Cities in Switzerland may seem "dull" to some of you but, could I afford it, I'd move back in an instant.

[quote]Good Lord, have any of you spent any time in a big US city? Try smiling at a stranger in Manhattan. They'll think you're crazy or a prostitute.

You're kidding. New York's one of the friendliest cities on earth. I chat with strangers all say in New York. Everyone says "Hi!"

& I now live in London, so I know the difference.

sorry -** all DAY** in New York.

Maybe the Germans despise the Swiss, but the still come to Switzerland in hordes to profit from the high salaries there ( Same with the French, btw. And the Swiss hate them because they are completely useless as workers. And even with the higher Swiss salaries they stay extremely cheap. Buying everything from Aldi and living in shared flats. Yes, adults with good jobs living in shared flats.

My understanding is that the Swiss don't like ANY outsiders. Do they still have the law that prohibits anyone but those of Swiss origin from owning businesses there?

R153 no, if you have a C Permit (residency permit, usually takes about 5 years to get depending on your nationality) you can own a business or buy property.. House prices in sought-after parts of Switzerland (Geneva, Zurich, Lausanne, the Alps) are exorbitant and for years were being bought up by rich Arabs, etc., so the Swiss introducing laws limiting who could buy property was a fair way of dealing with billionaires buying up the country. They did extend the possibility of buying property to fonctionnaires internationaux (i.e. overpaid, underworked UN organization employees.. who, in addition, pay no taxes on their salaries) after 2000, as an additional lure to keep the organizations (UN, HCR, WIPO, ILO, WHO, etc.) in Geneva.

There is very little land for development as the Swiss (quite rightly) religiously protect undeveloped land not to destroy the environment. A friend bought a house in the late 90s for the equivalent of 650K USD. A very small, 2 tiny bedroom house with a small yard but centrally located in Geneva, close to the international organizations. At that time, only Swiss and C Permits could buy property so there was a small pool of potential buyers. He sold the same house, no renovations, in 2012 for $1.7 million.

The Swiss don't like people they don't know. You can have a neighbor and have cordial relations with them, but if they cross you in the street, they'll pretend they never saw you. They mind their own business... but love snooping on their neighbors.

No but I drank some Swiss Miss once.

Swiss people are very reserved against people they don't know. Once they know you and trust you they can be some of the warmest, most thoughtful people you'd ever meet. However, they are very sensitive and expect the same level of attention from you. A lot of foreigners are not used to having to remember the names and ages of all of someone's nieces, or doesn't care enough to immeditaly know what would be someone's perfect birthday gift. To protect their easily-bruised feelings, they stay reserved to see if you are serious about making a longtime commitment to friendship.

I haved lived in Zürich since fours years, and only during a group trip last year did I make some headway into Swiss german circles and have managed to build a small network.

The mentality is very conformist and there just are Certain Ways that things are done. No explanations given, but you will get a reaction when you do something The Wrong Way. Slowly you realise that these ways are for a reason, and after a while in Switzerland you do begin to change. Then you start to wonder if you could ever get used to living somewhere else again.

Having a swiss BF has definitely helped my integration. But it's still an uphill battle sometimes. One needs a thick skin and good instincts here in the mountains.

But when it's good, boy, is it worth it.

I've been to Switzerland but I've never been to me.

It sounds almost like Dutch, another ugly language. Some Dutch are lovely people though - it just sounds... Well... rschjkerschjrk...

Yes, R158. Dutch is one of the ugliest languages. I love the Dutch people, the culture, the country.. but the language is grating af. Swiss German sounds very much like Dutch.

Thanks for your post, R156. No disrespect to the Swiss (the country's beautiful, the people themselves I could care less about - and I have zero recollection about the food, which tells you a lot), but from what you describe, I would call that: high maintenance, entitled, provincial, inbred, small-minded, from another time, etc. It's just privileged people who only mix among their own, enjoy a very high standard of living because they were born lucky, and believe their own small existence deserves praise otherwise it would wane their precious flower. Sort of like your old aunt who may or may not be aristocracy, except everybody there is like that, including the men. No patience for these people, although I may enjoy the scenery from time to time. Go read TENDER IS THE NIGHT if you have the time. And of course these people are racist, these types always are.

I have a couple of friends from LA who were expats in Switzerland for 3 years. They're both of Asian descent and have lots of stories of racism they experienced while in Switzerland. Since they're not white, the locals would speak Swiss German (in front of them or behind their backs) thinking my friends did not understand the language. The wife also lived in Germany as a child and was fully fluent in German. They would constantly hear pejoratives like "Dirty Foreigners", "Fucking Ugly Chinks", etc.

They tried to make friends with the locals. But, they found it very, very difficult. So they ended up being friends with other expats from all over the world.

They couldn't wait for the husband's project to be over and get out of there.

What a horrible story, R161. These people are scum. What can you expect from a country whose wealth is partly based in gold stolen from the Jews - not to mention Nazi whatever it was.

The only reason why they're afraid they'll get stolen is because they themselves stole their wealth. They didn't work for it. They either inherited it or took it from other people's pockets while they were dying in ovens. Disgusting.

Tasted some very tasty Albanian and Montengerin cock in Geneva #yum

That's a dreadful story, R161

[quote]They tried to make friends with the locals. But, they found it very, very difficult. So they ended up being friends with other expats from all over the world.

I think a lot foreigners live this way in Geneva.

Wouldn't be at all surprised if it's the same here in London. The English don't like foreigners much. They don't like each other much.

r164 A lot of people in London are fine. The city is diverse and full of tons of hot dudes who are ready to throw down.

Went with French friends..locals (Sion) humiliated a Filipina waitress and Catholic bashed, race- baited her...she did no wrong....horrible ugly selfish people... I got in their ugly faces.

I Love the Swiss Guard and Ital-Suisse though.

The Swiss guards have no gag reflex. The I-talyies have sure thought em well!

R166 people from Sion "Catholic bashed"? Huh? Sion is in the Valais, the most Catholic (with Fribourg) Canton in Switzerland. Sorry, your story doesn't add up.

The Swiss hate all foreigners - even the French and the Germans. It isn't really racism, it's xenophobia. When I lived in Switzerland first back in the 70s, there was a massive arrival of Italian workers, mainly repairing roads and working as maids. The Swiss hated them. Then came the Spanish doing the jobs the Italians no longer wanted to do when they'd progressed up the social ladder. Then, after the Spanish, the Portuguese arrived. The Swiss snubbed all of them.

Filippinos, by the way, have no possibility of working legally in Switzerland though thousands have tried. I had a wonderful, illegal Filippina cleaning lady, she got deported, got another one, she got deported too.

Thanks R168 for posting. It's horrible what happened to the two Filippina ladies that worked for you. I mean what is wrong with these people? As if the Swiss themselves wanted to do cleaning work. Surely not! Xenophobia/racism on this scale I simply do not get. And they're just too miserly for my liking.

I assume Switzerland does not recognize same sex relationships to immigrate that way?

I'm italian and yes, we make fun of swiss-italians: the joke is they're totally devoid of sense of humour, they don't get sarcasm and speak italian with a dumb accent (it's all true, btw). A friend of mine lived there for work, and her stories were crazy: in her building you can't take a shower after 9pm otherwise other tenants would complain for the "noise". Also, she had a blast watching TV news: the country is so uneventful that the first story would be something like "health inspectors grade the cleanest rest stops in Switzerland". It's a riot., like living on another planet.

I've always heard food in Italy was amazing. I was in Ticino for 6 days and have zero recollection of the food there, except for the ice-cream.

The views were gorgeous.

[quote] When I got back to Canada and looked at my bills I'd spent eleven grand in less than two weeks in that one country

R144, you had no idea how much you spent until you got home?

R173 When you've spent the equivalent of $113 on a simple breakfast for two people you really don't want to know what the total damage will be. Better to enjoy now and do the totals later.

wow, that's crazy R174

R170 don't actually know if same sex marriage is legal in Switzerland now, but a few years ago I had an American colleague who was hired. The company we worked for got him a work permit (not easy for Americans though people from the EC are facilitated). He was married to another American guy and his husband managed to get a permis de sejour to stay in Switzerland as a dependent.

According to OECD data, in 2013 28% of Swiss residents were foreign born. Only Luxembourg has a higher percentage of such In the world. In comparison, melting pot USA only recorded 13%.

That might go some way to explaining the insularity of the Swiss.

Thank you, R154.

wee, R172: Ticino is NOT Italy, so your post makes no sense at all

R177 yeah, the foreign population of Switzerland has hovered around 25-30% for decades, which explains the xenophobia to an extent.

R171 our national news are often not very interesting (lack of scandals and political drama, I guess), but to make up for it we get a very good coverage of foreign news, making us less ignorant of what goes on outside our borders. Anecdote: I lived for long periods of my life abroad and the majority of Italians I met believed we speak "Swiss" in Switzerland... maybe if Italian tv news could inform their citizens there is life outside of their own country they wouldn't make such a mistake.

Everyday 65'000 Italians cross the border to work in Ticino (total population of Ticino is around 350'000). If, as you say, so many of them think we are such a bore and dumb maybe they should consider looking for a job in Italy.

Many people in Ticino speak with a very similar accent to the one of the Bergamo area... I agree, it's not beautiful but it is what it is. It's not really nice to deem an accent "dumb" just because you speak with a different one (and I assure you, you have one as well and probably people from different regions of Italy don't like it)

Lastly, we do have some "stupid" rules but we tend to respect them anyway. You know why? Because overall they make life much easier for everybody. Re. Apartments and noise (pollution): Not taking a shower between 10 pm and 6 am (as a general rule that takes into account exceptions and "once in a while" occasions) doesn't take much away from you but maybe can really ease things up for your neighbor. Consider that.

In any case, I imagine you also find incredibly funny how most people around the world make fun of Italians, mimicking some generic heavy Italian accent and some typical hand gestures (and mentioning, in order to get a laugh, the worst Italian stereotypes: mafia, corruption, incompetence... all true btw).

Ok. That's it. Sorry for the long post.

R181 Ticino has been largely taken over by Germans.. not Swiss Germans, but German Germans. They love to retire there.

Armed and dangerous man on the loose after attacking 5 people with a chainsaw! I guess someone decided to spice up the news today.

Yikes! Scary stuff

R181: your post is why we italians make fun of you. And yes, i'm aware that italians are sterotyped all the time, and frankly i don't give a damn.

Thanks for reality check, R185. So much for calm and peaceful.

Yeah everyone in Europe loves stereotyping and poking fun at Italians from my experience. I've seen it a lot while I was there.

r181 -- "Not taking a shower between 10 pm and 6 am doesn't take much away from you but maybe can really ease things up for your neighbor." ????

It's pretty obvious that you're Swiss. There is no other country where taking a shower at any hour of the day or night (unless you're singing at the top of your lungs in said shower) is considered an affront to your neighbors. I have a story about nighttime showering in Switzerland too, i.e. the neighbors of a friend of mine (a very respectable financial consultant) called the police when he took a shower at night after coming off a long flight home. Just being neighborly, you know.

Oh, and there's the story -- I am not making this up -- of another acquaintance (a non-Swiss, natch), who drove his elderly neighbor who was having an attack of some sort (heart attack or stroke, I don't remember) to the hospital when the ambulance took too long to arrive and the neighbor's wife was getting panicky. He subsequently got a notice from the police that he'd been cited for speeding on that drive. He investigated, and guess who turned out to have reported him? If you said the neighbor's wife, you win, and you get to go on to the next round of "Just How Revoltingly Self-Righteous Are the Swiss?" !

So true r188. I laughed so hard at that line. The idea of what time you take a shower being a point of contention, or even a point of conversation, between neighbors is such a bizarre concept to me.

I've never heard the shower thing. I'm happy in the US if my neighbors don't play loud, obnoxious rap "music" at 3 am.

Among Swiss laws: you can't hang laundry out on a Sunday or a holiday where someone can see it. You can't cut grass or do visible 'work' or make noise on a Sunday or a holiday. You can't make noise after 10 pm, depending on the apartment building you live in, you probably can't do your laundry after 10 pm or on a Sunday or a holiday in the communal, shared laundry room.

The Swiss have always lived in close proximity and their laws reflect the lack of room each individual Swiss has. Community harmony is prized over individuality.

[quote]The Swiss have always lived in close proximity and their laws reflect the lack of room each individual Swiss has

Oh yes, that must be ever so tough dealing with noise from a neighbor. Couldn't imagine how you would do that without telling people when they are allowed to shower.

Bavaria has a lot of those ridiculous laws and similarly uptight people.

182 here. I'm sorry if my posts sounded so self-righteous... I guess I was just trying to explain why things work the way they do here. The shower thing might sound strange, I know... but it works (and it's not as strictly enforced as some people may believe). Anyway I have a dog and sometimes it barks but there have never been any complaints. So yes, we do know how to reach a compromise..

Anyway, I usually couldn't care less if some people want to make fun of Switzerland ;(every country has its own issues), but it seemed to me some comments were a bit unfair. That's all.

R191 I agree with you last paragraph

Sorry, r193, but I've been to both Bavaria and Switzerland on numerous occasions, and there is no comparison.

NO ONE is as uptight as the Swiss -- it's a nation of anal-retentive dictators, basically.

Well, maybe the Japanese make the running too.

r182 (are you sure you don't mean r181?), your dog SOMETIMES barks? Only sometimes?

It must be Swiss dog, am I right? Is it an Appenzeller or a Bernese? Probably not a Greater Swiss Mountain Dog or a Saint Bernard -- they're too big and drooly, am I right?

As far as doing your laundry in a building goes, my mom's building in Florida has a rule of not using the communal laundry room on each floor between 8:00 p.m. and 8:00 a.m.

As far as European tax havens go, I would choose Monaco any day. Both places are filled to the brim with Arab billionaires and their harems of niqab clad wives but at least Monaco has the advantage of being trashy, and therefore by definition more interesting. Plus the food is better.

R188 actually I have dual citizenship: Swiss and Italian (not sure if this fact can change your opinion). My posts though probably sound "very" Swiss, I agree.

R196 It's just your average dog, no specific breed (but when it decides to bark it can wake up the whole building), but I guess it's useless to explain at this point.

Back to important topics:

Do the Swiss possess sizemeat? I've heard yes and no.

Informed DLers, please weigh in.

r200 Yes Mrs Campbell. I can assure you that most of the dongs are quite delicious and full of bone

You know, in my previous comments I attempted to apologize for the way some of what I wrote might have come across, but now I realize... basically what many of you work on is confirmation bias: you don't give a fuck about asking some questions and getting to know a country foreign to most of you (and this despite your obvious lack of knowledge). You just want all your shitty ideas confirmed and you randomly pick out of contexts sentences/words to do just that. No curiosity, nothing.

People comparing New York to Switzerland (really??), or making fun of me for stating that my dog SOMETIMES (obviously) barks..? Seriously, do dogs living in apartments in the US bark all the fucking time? And no one says a thing? I can just imagine what fun it must be.

Strange and unusual rules to try and improve living conditions exist everywhere (as proved by the poster above from Florida) and there are countless examples of them in every country, but don't let that information prevent you from being assholes just for the sake of it.

To the "Italian" poster, it's fun how you suddenly came up with your inflammatory post but then refused to further comment on it: you speak for the entire Italian population but you don't even know that at least half your country doesn't even know Swiss Italians exist. You say you don't give a shit about other people's opinion of Italy (somehow I expected exactly that kind of reply), but again you forget your fellow Italians who take insult for everything (latest scandal, you can look it up: Naples and tabloid the sun). Most of all, I insist, if so many Italians have this superiority complex, then you can kindly tell them they can stay and work in their own beautiful country and avoid begging us, poor peasants of Ticino, to hire them. It's that simple.

Btw, r188 book your next holiday to Angola, i' m sure you'll have plenty of fun (unlike in boring Switzerland)

Glad you're feeling better, r202.

You just need to come to terms with the fact that no amount of "explaining" is going to convince people that Switzerland is any less provincial and anal-retentive than it undeniably is.

And btw I am damn sure I would have more fun on vacation in Angola than I have ever had in Switzerland, for a lot less money. West African people are very friendly and extroverted... basically the antithesis of the Swiss. (I enjoyed my trips to Ghana and Ivory Coast too.) But on this issue, your mileage will probably vary.

I never even knew there were such things as Swiss dogs.

Actually, come to think of it, I have heard of Swiss Mountain Dogs.

I sure love swiss cocks.

One time I was on my own for the evening in Geneva. So I decided to take the tram to the French border.

Got out. But I had no ID on me. Not even a credit card and they almost arrested me. In England you don't need to carry ID, but in Switzerland, it's the law.

SO don't go taking trams to Swiss border crossings without ID - even if you don't plan to cross.

Can you take a bath after 10 pm? I have sore legs and sometimes have to take a bath at night for that reason.

They do sound rule-crazy, but it seems a lot of (formerly nice) cities are starting to descend into chaos from overcrowding, political extremism, lax attitudes re drugs, homelessness, crumbling infrastructure and garbage, so people may see the wisdom of rules in the near future.

it's amazing how R202 confirms EVERY swiss stereotype with her ticinese miss prisspot posts. And i'm actually from Naples, and i can assure you no one here was offended by the Sun "most dangerous cities" list. We just laughed our heads off, because that list was obviously written by some brit frau who'd find Dublin too exotic and wild for her taste.

I've been with a lot of Swiss guys, and everyone of them was hung like a horse. And very thick. About 60% of Swiss gays are tops, which is above average.

Are walls paper thin in Switzerland? I live in New York and can honestly say I’ve never heard anyone showering.

R210 in apartment buildings - yeah - and you can't make any noise after 10 pm or on Sundays and holidays. The neighbors'll call the cops.

I’m going to be in Zurich in a couple of days, coincidentally. I’m in Austria right now (a dump, apart from Vienna), but going to be taking the train to Zurich it fly home from there.

I’ve only ever passed through the major Swiss cities. I’ve spent time in Zermatt which is amazingly pretty but there’s no much to do unless you ski or hike.

The best thing about Switzerland are the beautiful small mountain towns like Murren. The landscape and walking paths and absence of traffic are unique and worthwhile. I’m always sentimental when I’m in Rocky Moutain towns in the US which seem so industrial and ski-industry driven. The clanging cow bells, the stunning cliffs and waterfalls, the easy to walk trails and open views - beautiful. The Swiss cities - blah boring expensive.

Yes. Probably my least favorite country in Europe. In fairness, my taste leans on the exotic and the unpredictable.

Switzerland is beautiful. Interesting? Not so much.