Bette Davis - Now Voyager - 1942

Beautiful and very moving. The ending is so perfect and certainly one of the great movie endings of all time.

Bette Davis said that she probably received more fan letters about this movie over the course of her life than any of her others.

Those letters were usually to thank her for making it and to tell her how it had inspired so many of them to change their lives for the better.

For that reason, it was always one of her favorites.

It's a wonderful film, meaningful to me as well. I was just surprised that I had never seen it until 10 years ago or so. I actually bought the DVD. That damn Hays code, even when Paul Henreid was free, she was not allowed to be with him.

Oh Miss Theeng.

How wealthy do you think the vale family was?

They were "THE Vales of Boston" - private sanatoriums, monogrammed luggage, trips on P&O steamers, front row seats for the symphony - so I am guessing pretty wealthy!

Why Miss Davis was the greatest.

My favorite Miss Davis movie. The old bitch Mrs. Vale reminded so much of my own bitchy mother (without all the $$ however). When the Devine Miss D puts the old cow in her place I give her an imaginary high five.

Any movie with Charles Drake as a ship's officer is definitely worth watching. My oh my is he beautiful...

I kind of fell in love with Bette.

Bette had great respect for Cooper and adored Rains.

Regarding the Hays Code, I find this film especially ambiguous as to whether Davis and Henried ever had a sexual relationship. There's the "bundling" scene--are we supposed to think they eventually unbundled?

The gorgeous theme was used briefly in "Mildred Pierce" in the post-swim seduction scene. No ambiguity there!

A wonderful film! Happy that it changed your life!

It's a wonderful film, but I think it really helped popularize cigarette smoking with Henreid's very suggestive and totally cool way of lighting them. Otherwise, it's a beautiful Cinderella transformation story with exquisite acting.

I like to think Jerry's wife kicked off or divorced him soon after the fadeout, so he and Charlotte could get together. I think the actress that played his daughter --Janice Wilson?--played her daughter in Watch on the Rhine.

As a small child we immediately identified with Bette as Jane Hudson!

Dora, I suspect you are a treasure.

and when she breaks off her engagement: let's not linger over it.

This movie, All about Eve, The Letter, Mrs.Skeffington, Dark Victory, All this and Heaven too. There will nevah be another Bette. I want to run out and buy a pack of cigs. Maybe put a voodoo curse on BD THE HYMAN.

This is my favorite movie. She deserved her Oscar for it.

And her fiance John Loder was married to Hedy Lamarr.

Dora, Mary Wickes, was with Bette in Man Who Came to Dinner and June Bride and that TV pilot The Designer. Sort of Eve Arden to Joan Crawford parallel.

Although Lee Patrick also had the Eve part in Voyager, The Sisters, and In This Our Life, with Bette.

All those great dames!

As mentioned, when it comes to film acting Bette had the widest range of them all, and she was without vanity. Only her comedy was a bit shaky sometime.

r19 Mary Wickes always addressed Bette as "Miss Davis" during all the years they worked together. Mary so admired David that she told someone she couldn't bring herself to call her "Bette."

Why was the kid who played Paul Henreid's daughter uncredited? She had a pretty major (speaking) part but wasn't even billed.

In Wiki, she's listed at the end of the cast--Janis Wilson

There was a travel agency in San Francisco named 'Now, Voyager' that was owned by the hottest daddy piece. Christ, he was hot.

Uh....OK R23. Nice but really not what I pictured.

I hated that stupid girl in the movie.

R24, not the guy I remembered. He might have lied and told me he owned the place. I did a sales call there for the first job I had and the guy I met with looked like a Tom of Finland character.

I wanted to slap the shit out of that stupid girl in the movie.

Tony, let's not ask for the moon; we have the stars.

I sure hated the old bitch who played Charlotte's (bette davis) mom.

"Go on! Make fun of me! You think it's fun making fun of me!"

"Why, I think Aunt Charlotte has the shakes!"

Bette never played Juliet and wasn't great in comedies.

Orry-Fucking-Kelly, bitches.

"She's got Bette Davis eyes!"

She loved Gladys Cooper: "Never late, never didn't know her lines. We would have been grateful for her working half a day, but she was always there when needed." (Or words to that effect.)

Janis Wilson (Tina) went on to play the young Martha Ivers in the Barbara Stanwyck movie "The Strange Love of Martha Ivers".

Agree her hysterics in a couple of the scenes were a little much. But I think the intent was to show us Charlotte became attached to her because Charlotte was probably just like Tina when she was young.

She locks her door. Make a note of it.

Paul Henreid: "I'll look for you around every corner." Priceless.

[quote] There was a travel agency in San Francisco named 'Now, Voyager'

I used to book all my travel there. I figured they deserved my business from the use of the name alone. I miss businesses that had a wink and a nod to gay subculture, Reno Sweeney's in NYC is another that comes to mind.

As for the movie, I first saw it in the mid '70s at the Gateway Cinema in San Francisco. No VCRs back then, and if you wanted to see an old that hadn't been cut with commercials you went to one of several revival houses (The Castro is one of the few remaining). It was on a double bill with MR. SKEFFINGTON and I remember being absolutely mesmerized by Bette Davis. Until then, all I knew of her were the over-the-top impersonations by Carol Burnett and Eve Arden and Kaye Ballard on THE MOTHERS-IN-LAW, so to see how wonderful she was turned out to be a revelation for my little 17 year old self.

According to Davis, it was Paul Henreid, not director Irving Rapper who came up with the business of lighting two cigarettes at once and handing one to the lady

Good morning everyone! I am the OP of this thread. THANK YOU ALL for your views and replies. Never ever did I think there would be so many. It's heartwarming to know this movie touched so many others.

Obscure fact: there were two scenes shot for the movie that were eventually deleted. 1). In the flashback shipboard romance scene Charlotte dances with Charles Drake in a cloud of pillars. I can see why it was not used. It would seem rather silly. 2). Charlotte's original "transformation" scene was in a beauty parlor with Lisa (Ilka Chase). The scene was deleted for the now-famous scene of the camera panning toe to head as Charlotte disembarks the ship. Years ago I saw a still photograph in a book of the beauty parlor scene. I have never been able to find it again. And if there is surviving footage of these two scenes man would I love to see it.

This scene shows why I love this movie so much. Charlotte tells Jerry what he has given her: the joy of a man falling in love with you for the very first time. This scene is just rapturous and Bette is just, well, she's just Bette.

Sorry! Forgot the link [39]!

[quote] when I first saw it on VHS as a struggling young gay man over 35 years ago it spoke volumes to me.

Oh FFS, you're no woman stuck by the patriarchy OP. Fuck off.

OP, interesting trivia. I grew up in Newport Beach and now live in Laguna. Some of the Rio shots were filmed in Laguna outside a restaurant and adjoining gazebo that are still there. Used to be an elegant dinnerhouse, Victor Hugo. Now it's a Mexican restaurant, but you can still recognize it in the movie. Also, since Bette had a place in Laguna, one of her movie premieres was going to be held at a brand new theater in Newport Beach. She drove by during construction and didn't like the size of the ladies room. They doubled the size per her request, and moved the men's upstairs to the balcony area. That theater, the Lido is still in business and has a picture of Bette and a plaque explaining the story.

[42]: Great trivia! I just love it! It just shows you how stars of Bette's ilk were truly larger than life!

In the restaurant scene there are those great table umbrellas with heavy fringe. You saw them all thru out films of the 40's and 50's. I have always wanted one but sadly they don't make them anymore.

When Charlotte tells him that no one has ever called her darling before it is so painful, real, and true that it gets me every time. I think a great deal of people are ugly ducklings- I was. And even after they break out inside they still feel that way inside. Charlotte is a women trying to get rid of the ugly duckling inside. Paul Henreid understands that but also Charlotte understands herself very well. But that is all due to Davis and the writing. It is a very adult movie. Davis was never shy about exploring complex characters and Charlotte Vale meets that standard. The film didn't change my life but it hit close to heart, and still does.

Didn't the sailor in the flashback compliment her? I think she is lying about no one having called her darling before.

I too was an ugly duckling [44]. Like the repressed spinster Charlotte. Always the wallflower, standing in the back of the room, afraid to speak, afraid to stand up, afraid of being noticed and made fun of. Parents telling you the world will eat you up.

Then one day a man came along, my own Jerry, and showed me I was attractive, desirable. Showed me that I counted.

That man made me into the person I am today, like Charlotte coming out of her cacoon.

It's a transformative moment that only happens once, and although you may struggle some the rest of your life., you will never forget that brief moment.

Was blanking on the movie premiere for Bette, but the Lido Theater has it on their site- it was Jezebel, the first movie they showed.

My mom told me that Bette was horrified that the ladies room had no sit-down vanity area, so the owner added the men's bathroom area to make it larger.

"That man made me into the person I am today, like Charlotte coming out of her cacoon."

Oh dear.

Susan Sarandon did a Q and A on Twitter during one of the Feud episodes; she was asked which of Davis' films would she have wanted to have starred; she immediately replied :

Jezebel, Dark Victory & Now Voyager.

Max Steiner 's performance was a major contribution to the film.

Not "Bureau of Missing Persons", "Parachute Jumper" and Beyond the Forest", Susan?

I adore this movie,but agree the kid got on my last nerve. Bette did many amazing movies,but my all time favorite will always be " The Little Foxes" . Now THAT was superb acting by the whole cast .

I love the movie except for any scenes with THAT KID. I hate that whole section.

She talks about Gladys Cooper here, r34.

Gladys Cooper was actually a nice lady in real life, and she and Bette stayed in touch over the years. Cooper was a very famous stage actress in the early 20th century and considered a great beauty.

"I'm not surprised you blush. I was there when William took the books... ...and what we found hidden was a great shock. I hope that that shameful episode in your life is past."

How come we dont have "Great " beauties anymore ? And what happened to women that werent beautiful but were known for their ravishing style ?

[quote] "I'm not surprised you blush. I was there when William took the books... ...and what we found hidden was a great shock. I hope that that shameful episode in your life is past."

What did they find?

This, R58.

Gladys Cooper plays that same role in every movie.

Madame Bovary The Bishop's Wife

Except for the Victorian garb, my mother was just as imperious and insensitive as Mrs. Vale. And like Charlotte, I was the ugly duckling. I am still the ugly duckling and had to accept the cards I was dealt with. Davis gives a great performance, as all of them do in the movie. But, because of my own situation, it can be painful to watch. For some of us, there are no happy endings...or even bittersweet ones.

She was the same as the mother of Deborah Kerr ("rhymes with 'star'") in Separate Tables. That film also has Cathleen Nesbitt, whom I sometime confuse with GC.

However, in Green Dolphin Street she was sympathetic as the mother of Lana and Donna. And in Love Letters. Wasn't she supposedly the lover of Rupert Brooke? And the mother in law of Robert Morley? She was in a Twilight Zone with a very young Robert Redford.

It's a shame that the two Oscars Bette got were for Dangerous and Jezebel. She may have deserved it for Jezebel, but the Oscar for Dangerous was just a consolation prize for not getting it the year before for "Of Human Bondage". If you were giving hertwo Oscars, which two movies would they be for? My choices: Now, Voyager and The Little Foxes.

[quote] Charlotte's original "transformation" scene was in a beauty parlor

They should've kept that scene in.

Bette should've won for All About Eve and Baby Jane.

Please fuck off R41. Gay men have identified with the protagonists of so called Women's Pictures for over half a century, and for very valid reasons. Besides, themes of controlling mothers, forbidden love and an ugly duckling transitioning into a swan, hold a universal appeal for men and women alike.

I think it was Nesbitt who had the great love affair with Brooke.

Jerry: May I sometimes come here?

Charlotte: Whenever you like. It's your home too. There are people here who love you.

As much as I'd like Bette to have had the Oscar for "All About Eve" that year it really should have been Gloria Swanson.

I'll give it Bette for "The Letter" instead of Ginger Rogers in "Kitty Foyle" (I mean, come on...) and "...Baby Jane".

Bette in one of her "Tonight Show" appearances said she wished she'd won for "All About Eve" and "...Baby Jane".

Butch-ya didn't win for Baby Jane, Bette! Ha ha!

Bette should have won for Jezebel, Little Foxes, Now Voyager, All About Eve, and Baby Jane.

She did win for "Jezebel".

I listed ALL the films Bette should have won for. I guess I should have stated "In addition to Jezebel..." for CUNT at R72

I love the picture too. In my early 20s I finally got to to learn why those legends had become legends. I had moved from the Midwest to California and at that time they still had Revival Houses that showed the old movies on a big movie screen. You really get a full experience that way, as well as sharing them with an audience. Anyway, I got to see why Bette Davis was so loved in films besides "Whatever Happened..." and other movies that were current of the time.

She was just enchanting in this picture and it is a wonderful movie. Definitely one of my favorites.

This thread got me curious so I'm watching it now. Until one sees her in action one doesn't appreciate how amazing an actress Bette Davis was.

This is the thanks I get for trying to helpful!

My snatch at R73 calling my ghost at R72 a CUNT!

Miriam Hopkins was such a good actress though. I remember watching the 1932 version of "Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde" at university some time years ago and one of the frat guys after her big scene yelled out "That broad was good!!" ! But she was a scene stealer/upstager, which was odd, since she was such a good actress.

Sound good. I should watch it.

R62 and R67, Nesbitt was the gentler, sweeter version of Cooper, both born in 1888 with Edith Evans, Florence Bates and Florence La Badie, who reached great stardom by 1917, when while driving near Sing Sing with her fiancé, her car's brakes failed. It plunged down an embankment at high speed, rolling over when it hit bottom. Thrown from the car, she incurred a compound fracture of the pelvis. Infection set into septicemic death at 29. On her gravestone is "Fearless Flo, Silent Film Star".

Nesbitt's films spanned over sixty years, beginning with The Faithful Heart and ending in Never Never Land.with Petula Clark. Fascinating filmography and stage career, check her out on imdb and ibdb. Nesbitt was engaged to Brooke before he was bitten to death by a mosquito a couple of years before Flo's crash.

Davis, meanwhile, was reduced to this trifle around the time Separate Tables was released. But she looks good for 50.

[quote] Gay men have identified with the protagonists of so called Women's Pictures for over half a century, and for very valid reasons

Absolutely not, because you were men the whole time. There are no "valid reasons" to identify with women or their struggle, period. Stop that fucking bullshit especially when women themselves hate it, including Bette Davis herself who complained about fags camping up her work.

Enough.

Thanks for the bile spew, R81. I saw Davis a few times long ago, when she spoke about gay men and how much she appreciated their art. Irving Rapper, who directed her in NV and three other films, was gay. Davis took great pleasure in sending up her camp persona. Unlike you, she had a sense of humor and perspective. Many of her friends and collaborators were gay. If she did enter homophobia, it was when she was dismissive of lesbians.

I always thought the caterpillar eyebrows at the beginning were a little much.

Didn't Bette say Paul Henreid was too weak in the role? She loved Claude Rains, though.

Thanks for the fabulous BD clip r54.

We were taken to a Hollywood awards dinner in 1983 by a very generou$ gentleman and Bette was one of the recipients, at the next table from us. Sadly, we were deathly ill with the flu that night and had to leave during dinner, missing the change to meet and have a word with Bette. The generou$ gentleman (now sadly RIP from gunshot to the head) did meet Bette and discussed her films with her.

OLD ACQUAINTANCE in1943 is just as much fun, and probably even camper as Bette and Miriam square up to each other. The older Bette in wartime New York, has a marvellous duplex apartment, a devoted housekeeper, a silver streak in her hair, and young hottie Gig Young as her beau - till he falls for Miriam's daughter Deirdre. Noble Bette sends away Press, Miriam's husband, who really loves her, and then in that famous scene gives drama queen Miriam a good shaking. Its utter bliss.

I don't get the vitriol from that dame. To the extent that gay men have been oppressed by society over the centuries (I think being burned at the stake qualifies), they have been able to identify with women, who have been oppressed by patriarchy.

R83, I always thought the caterpillar brows and overall pre-voyage frump look was reminiscent of her film debut. There's a newspaper article that I have somewhere with a picture of Davis at home in the mid-70s, no makeup and brows fully grown in, as if Charlotte never got out of her room.

Her best performances are all under Wyler. Jezebel, The Letter, The Little Foxes.

Even in Now Voyager she can be too actressy and phony at times a reason for which it's never been a favorite of mine. Especially as the homely insecure young woman. Maybe because she is a great actress it's disappointing. And Dark Victory is incredibly overrated.

Wyler never lets her get away with that shit. Even in the most melodramatic moments it's like a great revelation.

And Hopkins is brilliant in comedy which cannot be said for Davis. Her performance in Trouble in Paradise is one of my all time favorites. She's hilarious which Davis never was.

Also isn't she supposed to be mediocre as Apple Annie?

May Robson in the original is sublime and should have won the Oscar.

R88 - Davis and Wyler clashed on The Little Foxes, and she did things he did not approve of e.g the way Regina keeps brushing her hair off her forehead.

The only bad thing in this movie is the girl. She cannot act and is cringey in every scene.

The humorless homophobic frau at R41 and R81 is extremely tiresome.

Heather Love P.h.D. :

'Esther Newton writes, “Camp humor is a system of laughing at one’s incongruous position instead of crying,” and I think that is pretty apt. The charge of camp is a result of social exclusion — both the suffering and the insight that come from being an outsider.'

'I am a bit wary of “psychologizing,” [which is] one step away from “pathologizing” the camp impulse in gay men.... One can analyze this attraction [to female icons] in terms of what these figures represent: a highly stylized femininity and toughness combined with abjection, a kind of overexposed and highly theatrical situation of longing and self-making.'

David J. Leonard P.h.D. :

'The women often said to be icons are most certainly women who don’t necessarily fit the script of femininity and sexual appeal within media culture. These women challenge and refuse to fit into this sort of commodity culture. They enter into media culture through their own script, their own definition of self. I think these qualities are celebrated and admired, especially within communities that are also depicted and treated as outsiders, as undesirable, and not “normative.” Icons transcend generations; icons come to represent a broader cultural movement or genre, but most important, as icons, their visibility crosses community and generation, [whereas] “popularity” is ephemeral and is specific to a moment.'

The film has a few oddities. It was shot after America became involved in WW2 but the screenplay makes no mention of the war and there are no men in uniform. You have to wonder why Charlotte after her transformation always wears her hair in that rather butch upswept style and never down and loose, even when she is in bed. And the airport farewell scene between her and Jerry gets a chuckle when he kisses her on the mouth through the veil she wears.

I disagree with your last paragraph, R88. Davis had moments of sly hilarity in her later career: Beyond the Forest, All About Eve, The Catered Affair, Baby Jane. Both Davis and Hopkins could get shrill, mannered and terribly busy. Hopkins' brand, even in her best work, has never made me laugh. Instead I've always wanted to shake her like Davis does in OA.

L0VE this movie...OMG!

Because, R93, the book from which NV was adapted preceded WW2. Its creator, Olive Higgins Prouty, penned five novels about the Vale family. NV was the third in the pentalogy. Prouty also wrote Stella Dallas, supported Sylvia Plath after Plath's first suicide attempt, and had a couple of nervous breakdowns herself. My grandparents had a first edition of NV in their library, which I read one summer long ago. The novel is almost as entertaining as the film.

Davis deserved an Oscar for " The Letter"- her best performance by far.

Can you believe that Bette lost the Oscar for "The Letter" to Ginger Rogers, of all people? Ridiculous.

No more ridiculous than Bette and me losing to Joan for Suspicion.

Gladys Cooper had a lighter role in her later years when she played the matriarch of a family of con artists in the short lived TV series "The Rogues".

The main rogues being cousins Frenchman Charles Boyer, Englishman David Niven and American Gig Young.

Robert Cootes played GC's son and aunt to the 3 leads.

The series rotated each week showcasing one of the 3 leads, with Coote usually assisting.

Sorry. R100 here.

That should read:

[quote]Robert Cootes played GC's son and Gladys Cooper was aunt to the 3 leads

Cathleen Nesbitt had a more successful TV run in the mid-60s with The Farmer's Daughter, which ran for 82 episodes over three seasons. She took over the grandmother role that Ethel Barrymore had played in the film. I loved Cooper's 60s stints into The Twilight Zone, The Outer Limits, and The Alfred Hitchcock Hour.

The little girl is perfect; her character is dramatic, neurotic, and over the top. The movie is sheer perfection; everyone is fantastic. Bette is gorgeous, as are her clothes. One of the top ten movies of all time. I did not know there were five Vale novels. I wonder if they are on Amazon or at the library? LOVE Mary Wickes--what a great performer. I daresay every gay kid who ever saw this movie identified with Charlotte. I love this movie so much. Agree Bette also was great in The Letter. and Watch on the Rhine. And the one where she was the nasty sister to Olivia. My parents met her when she appeared in Phoenix at some oddball promo circa 1975 or 6. Wish I had met her.

It could have been a promo for this, R103, which Davis took out on the road to sell. Check out her rendition of the NV theme song at the 20-minute mark.

Mary!

The plumber lady is Jane Withers, not Mary!

I always get them confused.

Years ago, a friend found a copy of an old paperback edition of the original book at a charity bookfair - and grabbed it for me - somehow sending it'd be something I'd like...

Like? It was fucking heaven!

Great read - like the film - but more so. More depth and many scenes that never made it to the film script - but when you're reading it, you can picture all the leads performing and doing their stuff as if it had all been filmed.

If you're a fan of the film (well, duh!) and you can find a copy - am sure you'll enjoy!

Sorry for the typo above - should have been 'sensing' not 'sending' - mea culpa!

I find it interesting that Prouty wrote an absolutely doting mother in Stella Dallas and a cold monster mother in NV. However, one could say that both were overwhelming, each in her own way.

Mr, Skeffington was better! And so much more gay.

The ending of Mr Skeffington is one of the very best. More so than NV.

Bette's performance in "The Letter" can't touch the Great Jeanne Eagles in the original from 1929. She didn't deserve it for "Jezebel", that one belong to Norma Shearer for "Marie Antoinette" I would give it to her for "WHTBJ" and a 3 way tie for "All About Eve" with Judy and Gloria.

You must have seen those when they were first released, R113.

There's something funny about her teeth in this movie. When she smiles she doesn't show all of them and I can't tell whether she has that gobby lipstick on her upper teeth or whether she has irregular ones on the side. Can anyone explain it?

Mr Skeffington is a chore. Never made it through even once.

"Mr. Skeffington" is a chore because Mrs. Skeffington is a chore. But that somehow sets up the unexpected power of the last 30 seconds.

"Mr. Skeffington" is also a bit of a hoot since one of the main influences on Mrs. Skeffington is her brother named Trippy. His name in invoked a lot even when Trippy isn't in a scene. Btw, Dolores Gray's first film appearance, first heard as a nightclub singer, and then she is briefly introduced on camera. Great voice as always.

I think Marjorie Riordan, the actress who played the grown daughter, eventually became a therapist. I think Davis had an affair with Vincent Sherman, the director of the movie, during the filming. He later had an affair with Crawford. Did the two gals compare notes on WHTBJ?

R81, he wasn't men, he was a man. This isn't about groups of people. One individual can identify with another anytime it is useful. If it helped him out and he didn't manipulate the person he was identifying with, no one is hurt or negatively affected.

A woman is never beautiful unless she is loved...

Then I always cry.

MARY!!!!

Yes, I do too, but it's a 2 1/2 -hour slog to the payoff. That is one annoying woman.

is there any link where the whole movie can be watched for free?

Gorgeous sets, too, esp. the Vale mansion. No one did interiors like Warner Bros.

[quote]is there any link where the whole movie can be watched for free?

IF it's in the Warner Archive collection, it's probably not free.

Charlotte's cape with the fritillaries was red!

Jes lak the dress she woah at the 'lympus Ball.

It made cruising seem way more glamorous than it really is.

A number of years ago I managed to find all the Vale books in the library and read through them. What's interesting is that the main character in the books is the Ilka Chase part, Lisa. Charlotte is really a secondary character.

What happened to Charlotte in the books that took place after Now Voyager?

It's my favorite of all Bette Davis movies. It has such brilliantly weird dialogue.

"An architect! I could cry with pride!"

"Mother, I didn't want to be born. You didn't want me to be born. It's been a calamity on both sides!"

"Dr. Jaquith says that tyranny is sometimes the expression of the maternal instinct. If that's a mother's love, I want no part of it!"

Charlotte is no more ill than a moulting canary!

Well, the Ilka part is very poised and charming. I wonder if Olive Higgins Prouty saw herself that way. She also wrote Stella Dallas, about a very different kind of mother, but in her own way also overbearing.

bump (just to get this in my thread list)

It's on Now.

I absolutely adore this film. I think Bette deserved an Oscar for this performance. So calm, so nuanced, so unmannered. She is brilliant here. It is my favorite of her movies, even more than All About Eve.

That actress that played the girl was extremely annoying. I waned to slap the shit out of her.

R32, Bette did play Juliet in the play that's in "It's Love I'm After." The death scene, with Leslie Howard, and they hiss at each other, between their lines. Our Livvie was in that movie, too, 80 years ago!

R139 I love this film too but I think Bette is very mannered in her acting in this.

The "Jolie Fleur", or pretty flower perfume mentioned by Charlotte in the film doesn't exist, but the actual perfume it was based on is "Quelques Fleurs" by Houbigant (as mentioned in the novel) and was the favorite perfume of Queen Victoria also was the one Diana wore as she walked the Church isle. It's still in production today.

If Jerry weren't so good looking, he would be considered practically a sex pest toward Charlotte. Instead, he was a dream boat who made the female audience swoon.

How was he a sex pest? I thought he was very gentlemanly.

From the moment Jerry and Charlotte met, he aggressively pursued her, asking her to help him find gifts for his daughters, booking her for dinner and saying they would meet in the bar beforehand, chasing her after she left the lounge because she was tired and wanted to go to her room, then telling her to meet him in the morning for breakfast after their conversation when he caught up to her. Then, during their last night of sight-seeing in Rio, he appeared on her balcony. She asked how he got on her private balcony and he said that the hotel employees were all sleeping. She said she must go to bed also, and he grabbed her arm to restrain her, and he cautioned her not to arouse his primitive instincts.

I love the movie and I love watching Jerry and Charlotte, but I do stand by my original observation.

And Charlotte was tentative and hesitant each time Jerry tried to persuade her to spend all of her time with him.

God, some of you queens are so tedious. If Jerry wasn't aggressive there would have been no movie!

If Jerry had been 'aggressive' he'd have raped her after the car accident.

i love these threads about old films, especially when someone posts something wonderful like r141 (I had forgotten!) and r143.

Fantastic film.

In the movie Jerry needed to be like that because of Charlotte's background and shyness. I just found it interesting to see it from the scenario of Jerry being unattractive. I think he would have seemed aggressive and needy.

good looking people can get away with a lot of things that unattractive people can't. people find beautiful people charming and unattractive people scary.

Good point, R152.

Love that cape I posted at R127. I wouldn't have thought Charlotte's cape at dinner was red. (Paul Henreid's daughter gives details like that on Twitter.)

Jerry knew what was in her heart. Also, he had a daughter (DL fave Janis Wilson) who had a similar temperament to Charlotte's, so was empathetic. Hardly a Weinstein or Cosby!

Our dear Janis played Davis' daughter in "Watch on the Rhine."

However, R152, good looks don't go very far if the person is a jerk--or has a strident,voice. Also, there's that big middle ground between gorgeous and hideous. That's where genuine charm can make a big difference.

charm, wit and personality go a long, long way. I can be totally seduced by an average to less than average looking person if they are charming, funny, sexy, witty, intelligent. those things can turn an unattractive person into a wildly attractive person to me sometimes.

I love it and I started to watch it today but then I was distracted.

If only I'd had a Dr. Jaquith in my life...

I think Bette said she thinks Charlotte ends up with Dr Jacquith?

Yes, Bette said that Jerry would eventually be too weak for Charlotte. She thought it was obvious in the last scene that Charlotte and Dr. Jaquith would get together.

Yes R154, me too! I once made a copy of it in celadon, which is what I imagined the cape to be.

Fritillaries!

Yes, Davis said that about Dr. Jacquith. But she was wrong. Jerry's wife kicked the bucket about a year after the movie ended, so he was free to marry Charlotte, and did. They had a good marriage.

Bette, Paul and Claude were a triangle in "Deception, " a rather delerious film.

Delirious. And sometimes hilarious.

I, too, think that Charlotte would have waited for Jerry and married him and raised the child together.

I think Charlotte would have loved Dr. Jacquith as a kindly father figure and would have respected his work (and greatly appreciated how he helped her), but her true love was Jerry. Her love would have been patient, and Jerry would have eventually chosen happiness for himself and his daughter (with Charlotte) over misery (with his abusive wife), and he and Charlotte would eventually marry.

I think Bette confused her real-life feelings for Claude Rains with Charlotte's feelings for Dr. Jaquith.

And whenever Miss Vale got impatient, Jerry would say to her:

Hush, hush, sweet Charlotte,

Charlotte, don't you cry.

Hush, hush, sweet Charlotte.

I'll love you til I die. -- Then she'd look at him sideways and mutter:

Fasten your seat belt. It's going to be a bumpy night!

(And when she walked their dog, she was often known to snarl: What a dump!)

LOVE this movie.

I have proof that she married Jerry. He took her last name, as a proto-feminist gesture, and became

Jerry Vale

One of his hit songs was "Moonlight Becomes You," and he sang it to her at every anniversary, a little in-joke about not asking for the moon because "we have the stars." She always chuckled at that.

I love Bette’s apartment in Deception.

Which city is that, R169?

[quote] I love it and I started to watch it today but then I was distracted.

Distracted by what, dear?

R161, that's one of the gayest posts I've ever read on DL, and that's say a lot. A lot.

What was so damned special about the canapes that June made?

R170 I believe the movie is set in New York City and that apartment is supposed to be above a shop.

Ilka Chase, who plays Charlotte's stylish cousin, was all over talk and game show TV when I was a little kid in the 1950s. Much like Arlene Francis, she was a witty raconteur and gracious personality. I adored her!

She actually originated the role of Sylvia Fowler in the Broadway play The Women that Roz Russell so famously portrayed in the MGM film. And, coincidentally, Arlene Francis was in the Broadway ensemble of The Women, playing several roles.

I think one "mystery guest" on WML was in fact the rest of the cast of The Women, in which AF was appearing.

[quote] She actually originated the role of Sylvia Fowler in the Broadway play The Women that Roz Russell so famously portrayed in the MGM film. And, coincidentally, Arlene Francis was in the Broadway ensemble of The Women, playing several roles.

Was that the legitimate theater?

No, that was a 1960s Broadway revival of Dinner at 8 you're thinking of, r176. with Arlene, Walter Pidgeon, Pamela Tiffin, June Havoc and others all appearing as the Mystery Guest.

I do too, R169.

I love Deception. I saw Now Voyager for the first time last year and fell in love with it. I don't usually like 1940's movies, but I loved NV and loved Bette Davis in it. I agree with the poster upthread, Charlotte is my favorite Bette Davis role. I had never heard of Deception, and a few months later when I saw it, I was so excited to see Davis, Paul Henried and Claude Rains again in a movie. I ended up loving the movie, and Claude Rains. He and Bette were fantastic in that movie. Bette Davis said in that Cavett interview above that it wasn't a very good movie. I disagree, I think it's a great movie. One of my very favorites now.

I think she was pregnant ( with You Know Who), during filming, so the crew jokingly called it "Conception."

Paul Henried directed Davis in Dead Ringer, and the small part of the rich twin's maid was played by his daughter Monica.

Deception was Bette's last good film at Warner Brothers. The films she made after that in her remaining three years at WB were all pretty lackluster. Winter Meeting, in particular, is rather boring.

Deception provided the perfect character for Claude Rains. His theater background was extensive, and he played the role theatrically and to perfection, IMO. It's my favorite role of his by far.

I liked it when Bette Davis said,

"I don't care what the public thinks, that damn adoption agency unloaded a schizophrenic, retard on me and I'm not keeping her."

I like it when she says "Hang on boys, it's gonna be a bumpy ride."

[quote]I like it when she says "Hang on boys, it's gonna be a bumpy ride."

Bette is absolutely phenomenal in that Cavett interview. I've watched it so many times and yet never get tired of the opinions she expresses about her life and career and the current state of film and show business.

She was so astute and remarkably funny. It's hard to imagine that she could have ever been the unreasonable bitch she was sometimes portrayed to be by some of her various colleagues.

Bette is buried right by my grandmother. Her headstone says "She did it the hard way".

Gotta love her!

"Unreasonable " for a woman probably meant "demanding and perfectionist" for a man.

Thank you, R172. I feel as if I've won an award!

I made it for a friend, who was dressing as Charlotte Vale for a masquerade ball.You would have loved the headpiece/mask. Fritterlaries again.

a beautiful, meaningful film

Perfection, R185

I used to have this sheet music MANY years ago. Have no idea whatever happened to it.

They sure don't make them like they used to. Today some white trash hussie can win an Oscar by virtue of spreading her legs to the right man.

Miss Davis was all talent.

[quote]It's on Now.

NOW a voyager?!!

Bette's new hairdo in NV was truly a brilliant move. It gave her face and neck an entirely different look that was incredibly flattering. I'm surprised she didn't use it in other films but perhaps she thought the do would be forever associated with Charlotte and she was too much of a chameleon to ever repeat it.

That shorter hair was a wig designed for the film. It did look good on her. You’re right, r195.

For example.

She’s approaching Bride of Frankenstein territory in that wig ^

Remember when her mother criticizes the new look, and says, "We'll tell people that you were sick and that you're letting your hair grow back as fast as you can. " As if it's a matter of will power.

I think Bette is at her most beguiling in Now, Voyager.

Gladys Cooper, who played Bette's nightmare bitch of a mother in the movie, was apparently a very nice woman IRL and she and Bette were fond of each other.

Her hair (or wig) is much prettier in the film than it is in that test above. More of a pompadour rolled poof.

When Gladys Cooper died, was it Noel Coward who said : Have no fear, we still have Cathleen Nesbitt.

Claude Rains didn't want to do this film at first because his part was too small. The screenwriter gave him more lines, and he signed to do it for $6,000 a week. He and Paul Henried started filming Casablanca right after this filmed ended, the very next day in fact. And both of them had the flu at the end of filming NV and at the beginning of filming Casablanca, according to Henreid's daughter.

Paul didn't make a huge number of films, IIRC, but a few were real classics.

R202, I think that is just about the ugliest pic I've ever seen of her, including the downturned mouth. If one added a few long wisps on either side of her face, she'd look like her ungrateful spawn Youknowwho.

You do all realize that the NV hairstyle is not short but long hair swept up at the nape to the crown?

no r206. i'm not a hair style scholar.

She's thinking: "God I hope that's not a cold sore..."

The.............................

[quote]Gladys Cooper, who played Bette's nightmare bitch of a mother in the movie, was apparently a very nice woman IRL and she and Bette were fond of each other.

Gladys Cooper was one of the few female actress/managers in the early 20th century. She was also a celebrated beauty and thousands of WWI soldiers carried her picture with them.

Even in her later years Cooper was notoriously promiscuous, contrary to her popular screen persona as a shriveled-up spinster.

I just found this lovely recording of a suite conducted by Charles Gerhard.

It's true r210, I WAS quite the looker!

[quote]Gladys Cooper was one of the few female actress/managers in the early 20th century. She was also a celebrated beauty and thousands of WWI soldiers carried her picture with them.

Hilarious to think that this is what they were beating off to in the trenches.

Oh for chrissakes r213, she was the beautiful girl back home they were fighting for. THIS is what they beating off to.....

R206, that's what I used to think, but then everyone's chiming in about short hair. Also, Gladys comments on the short hair.

Anyone else see the resemblance to Lucille Bremer? R208 especially reminded me.

Ugh Paul Henreid is a GOD. It's actually distracting. This is one of my favorite movies too.

Paul Henreid was very handsome in this movie. But four years later in Deception, he wasn't as attractive. I realized it was because in NV, his hair was straightened and slicked back. In Deception, his hair was curly it changed his NV look. In real life his hair was curly and blonde.

See what I mean?

Everyone should be that "unattractive!"

I don't like the blond pouf either but he's still a total package. No celeb men like him today.

Perfect.

Don't you think it was the blond curls that were fake? And the straight brunette hair was real?

He's got that kind of blond hair that looks really dark w product - but yeah it does look Sun-In- ish.

And Cathleen went on to outlive Coward by almost a decade, acting 'til she dropped R203

No, R222, his real hair was blonde and wavy according to his daughter. She said he had to put a lot of stuff in his hair to straighten it.

Here he is in Deception with the light, curly hair.

[quote]Charlotte's original "transformation" scene was in a beauty parlor with Lisa (Ilka Chase). The scene was deleted for the now-famous scene of the camera panning toe to head as Charlotte disembarks the ship. Years ago I saw a still photograph in a book of the beauty parlor scene. I have never been able to find it again.

Here it is!

I'm glad they didn't use this scene. Seeing the new Charlotte for the first time on the ship is more dramatic.

I love you guys and this thread. The comment about Casablanca filming the next day, the photos/discussion about Gladys Cooper, who was quite the hot ticket for decades, and the cut scenes. Let's never leave each other.

Bette and her Now, Voyager stand-in Sally Sage.

Speaking of hair, Claude Rains purposely styled his hair higher to make himself appear taller.

That same year she was in the feverish "In This Our Life," as a ruthless Southern vixen. What a difference between the two parts! (Olivia played the good sister.)

Thanks, R227. I also think the reveal in the film is better.

Interesting that they went to all that trouble to dress Bette's stand-in just like her but forgot the shoulder pads at r229.

Bette often commented in later interviews that while she never considered herself a beauty in 1930s Hollywood, she could see in hindsight that she had really had something special going and had nothing to be ashamed of.

r231 - Stanley and Roy............

Not to be confused with Siegfried and Roy..........

I think you can see a line between the following:

Of Human Bondage

In This Our Life

Beyond the Forest

Baby Jane -- Almost 30 years there

R218....damn, he looks very hot in that photo!

One of the great things about Bette Davis is that she made it on sheer talent and ability, unlike most of today's whores.

When I saw ‘Now, Voyager’ for the very time, I cried hysterically at the end when Bette utter the line, “We have the stars”. Omg, what an exquisite ending!

Yes, she was really something. I just rewatched Hush, Hush, Sweet Charlotte and was surprised at how good her performance actually is, given the tacky script. And I kept wishing it were Joan Crawford plotting and slapping Davis around instead of De Havilland. Joan made a huge mistake backing out of that one.

Yes, Joan made a huge mistake. I know she hated Bette, but FFS is was only a six-week shoot! The picture was a guaranteed hit, it's nuts that Joan couldn't have slogged it out for six lousy weeks!

I don't know r235. Have you ever seen the four of them in the same room....at the same time? Just saying.

A friend I've known the longest (55 years) said in an email today how much she hated getting old. Of course the only response I could send back to her was......

And "Consider the alternative."

I've always thought it was a shame that Bette didn't live long enough to play Old Rose in Titanic. That would've been fantastic!

Bette Davis said that the scene in NV when Dr. Jaquith is admiring Charlotte's ivory boxes and her artistic abilities, she was thinking of her true feelings for Claude Rains when she gazed at him in that scene. She had a huge crush on him, to the point that he would bring his wife and 4-year-old daughter to the set. They remained close friends, and she occasionally visited his farm and stayed a few days, but they never consummated her desire for him. She said that she was "nineteen years younger; much too old for him".

wait, what does that mean? That Claude liked them young?

He was married six times and his wives were a lot younger than him. His fourth wife (whom he was with the longest and had a child with) was 18 and he was almost 40 when they got together and eventually married.

^ I should say most of his wives were younger than him, the fourth was a lot younger.

It's too bad in a way, Raines might have been able to control Davis and checked her wildest, hard-drinking instincts.

He seemed like a boozer himself.

The novel was part of a trilogy by author Olive Higgins Prouty, which also included STELLA DALLAS, BION.

Rains was an alcoholic. One of his wives, artist Agi Jambor, a musical prodigy, said she had never seen anyone drink as much as him, nor had she known anyone so deeply insecure. She said her heart bled for him, he was that fucked up.

Emotionally fucked up, that is. Rains was always a consummate professional when it came to acting.

oh dear. no wonder why bette was attracted to him then. she was an alcoholic too. but he was charming, i'm sure.

R249, no, not even Claude.

Bouncing around various DL threads, I just realized she'd have a LOT to say about Tramp.

TRIVIA:

Charles Drake who played the humpy young sailor who is caught with Charlotte under a tarp onboard having a tryst is the same actor who 25 years later in 1967 would play Kevin Gilmore in VALLEY OF THE DOLLS.

Rains died from cirrhosis.

Well, Hayward was in that, and Hayward and Davis (or Davis and Hayward) were in Where Love Has Gone (based on Lana Turner) where Davis was the bitchy mother this time, and the two actresses did not get along, and Hayward remade Dark Victory as The Stolen Hours, so it all works out.

R252

Whether accurate or not, what I heard from someone was that his short stature really bothered the hell out of him. He believed that he had been cheated, that had he been a 6 ft tall man that he would have succeeded to his ideal level in acting.

I wonder why David and Hayward hated each other so much? I'd have thought they might have gotten along. Both professionals.

How short was Raines?

He expressed that to a journalist who interviewed while he was doing a play at a regional theater, R259.

He was 5'6".

What a squirt.

Bette Davis made it sound like Rains wasn't faithful to his wives. She lamented that she never got to sleep with him, but that women throughout the studio wanted to be with him (and many were). She said that some wanted to mother him, and some wanted to ______ him. She wondered if she should have tried to get him drunk and then seduce him.

Playing opposite the gargantuan Ingrid Bergman must've been difficult on him.

Hitchcock had a special ramp built so that when Rains walked up to Bergman, he was walking up the ramp so that his height would at least match hers close up.

funny. that must have really bothered him.

Ingrid Bergman, a Goliath at 5' 9".

I think Notorious may have been Rains' peak. Just brilliant. I think the actress, Leopoldine Konstantine, who played his mother, was the same age as he was. Now THAT was a scary mother!

Bette wasn't lusting after Paul Henreid? Interesting.

Notorious is my favorite Hitchcock film. Absolutely brilliant from the first shot to the last.

Well, look at the size of Bergman (in white) compared to from let: Natalie Wood, Jane Fonda, Diahann Carroll & Rosalind Russell. Bergman wasn't just tall, she was B I G.

Looks like Bette never had to light her own cigarette all during the filming of Now Voyager. Here's the director lighting one for her!

R271, She's in WHITE and next to 4 foot Natalie.

Jerry and Charlotte were not quite as captivating years later...

[quote] I liked it when Bette Davis said, "I don't care what the public thinks, that damn adoption agency unloaded a schizophrenic, retard on me and I'm not keeping her."

Bette Davis was a terrible mother!!

R271

Natalie was about 5'-5"2". Again, not just Bergman's height but her S I Z E. She was man size big. In fact had that photo been taken today, more than one person would wonder if she was trans.

R275

source for that winner ?

More crucial info that everyone here knows, but:

Natalie Wood played Davis' daughter in The Star (1954?). There's a scene where they're on a sailboat and Wood has to jump in the water. She did it once, but Davis saw she was scared and insisted she not be required to do it again (something like that ). Spooky. I think that at the time the film was said to be based on Crawford?

Davis was 5' tall, true?

Davis was 5'2". Crawford was 5'4". They both looked a lot taller on screen.

[quote] Well, look at the size of Bergman (in white) compared to from let: Natalie Wood, Jane Fonda, Diahann Carroll & Rosalind Russell. Bergman wasn't just tall, she was B I G.

Bergman was 54 in that photo and, perhaps, dealing with some middle-age weight gain. She was really slim when younger.

R281

Slimmer than she was when older: so true.

Bette Davis on This is your Life. They talk about Now, Voyager and Paul Henreid shows up at the 2:08 mark.

Bette was not at all happy about doing "This Is Your Life." She didn't want to do it, had let it be known that she didn't want to do it, but was trapped into doing it all the same. She went along with it during filming but told the truth afterwards.

I don't blame her. She was above that cheesiness.

Was it Angie Dickinson who actually left the studio when she realized it was T IYL?

But Ingrid was unusually tall. There's a great interview with her out there where she talks about meeting David O Selznick who brought her to Hollywood and told her they'd have to change her last name because it sounded too German for the American public (in the pre-WWII late 1930s), she'd have to pluck her eyebrows and she was too tall for most Hollywood leading men, even barefoot.

Obviously, she won on all points.

Now, Voyager was originally offered to Norma Shearer...she turned it down. She would have been awful.

R288 comments on Now, Voyager! I fucking love you people. Happy Datalounge Christmas.

I adore this movie. I'm so glad to find so many others who do too.

I can't even imagine the look Norma Shearer would have come up with for "Before". Did she ever play a role in which she allowed herself to look anything but her best?

This is available to watch on TCM until December 24.

I'm sure Norma would have worn spectacles and then transform by removing them r291.

No one gives a shit about Norma.

Should it be colorized ala “I Love Lucy”?

R288

Shearer was an M.GM. actress, Davis under contract at Warner Brothers who had purchased the rights to the story.

Between this and the Marion Davies thread, I am in DL heaven. Merry Christmas, fellas!

But who's to say MGM hadn't optioned the book for awhile for Norma to consider before Bette got her hands on it?

So one of Bette's first films was Bad Sister. She had a sister in

Bad Sister

Marked Woman

The Sisters

In This Our Life

A Stolen Life (twin)

Baby Jane

Dead Ringer (twin)

Whales of August

--

She had a real sister who was a leech. What, if anything, can we deduce?

God. Shearer would have made a fucking mess of this story. Thank the gods she never got her hands on it

Shocking to watch that marvelous interview with Dick Cavett and realize that Jane Fonda is about 20 years older now than Bette was back then.

[quote]Just think how long Bette might have lived without the booze and cigs!

She died from breast cancer, it wouldn't have mattered if she'd smoked or drank or not.

And Bette at any age is at least 20 times more interesting than Jane Fonda could ever hope to be.

She is remarkably candid in her last will.

Don’t wait up, Mother

Go on, make fun of me! You like making fun of me!

I just love that broad. Christ. She was marvelous.

Omg, where can I get Now Voyager in color?

Sad that Bette had no interest in keeping up that gorgeous Charlotte Vale look in her personal life. I don't think she ever looked more chic and it just might have added some extra years to her career as a viable leading lady throughout the 1940s, at least.

Her look in Beyond the Forest, really just 7 years after NW, clearly wasn't going to get any sympathy from Jack Warner.

Bette aged fast from all the booze and cigs. She drank straight scotch and smoked something like three packs (!) a day of unfiltered Luckies. All About Eve was the last time she really looked good. Just a couple of years later in 'The Star' (a camp riot) she looked like she'd aged ten years in just two. Matronly and visibly older. By the end of the 50s she was really haggy-looking. I think she aged the worst out of all of her contemporaries.

Barbara Stanwyck probably aged the best. She was rather plain in her youth, but as a mature woman she was quite striking.

She's very chic at 40 in June Bride (1948). A woman's career after 40 in Hollywood then...

Agreed r311......

wow, she does look good in that photo, quite a bit younger than she looks in AAE. I wonder what happened in the ensuing two years?

Love the movie. Imagine growing up wealthy, being introduced to Dr. Jaquith who quickly rescues you from an emotionally abusive mother and helps you get stronger and emotionally healthy, sends you on a pleasure cruise where you meet a handsome man who is instantly attracted to you and cares deeply about your pain, you fall in love, you become a socialite with lots of friends and beautiful clothes, Mom dies and leaves you very wealthy, you adopt Jerry's daughter and make a wonderful mother, and you discover a purpose for your life in helping Dr. Jaquith, and you get to see Jerry during the happy, good times when you're both at your best!

Swoon.

I saw Now Voyager on a TCM Cruise on a big screen on the top deck under Caribbean skies at night. It was just beautiful. You could just feel the joy of people watching a movie about a woman finding life on a cruise while they were on a cruise.

R314, isn't that every boy's dream?

The famous love theme was used several years later in the seduction scene with Scott, in "Mildred Pierce."

I'm sure I've posted this before on another thread, but the outdoor cafe Rio scene was filmed in Laguna Beach. The restaurant and cupola are still there.

I didn't know they filmed that scene in an actual restaurant. That was an unusual thing to do back in the studio era, where they rarely left the soundstage or the backlot. The things you learn on DL!

Well, Bette had her place in Laguna then. She's also responsible for the large ladies powder room at the Lido Theater in Newport. She went by during construction and said it was too small, so they combined it with the men's which they moved upstairs. I think it was Dark Victor that premiered there. There's a plaque in the lobby that explains the story.

The Lido....

Umm, you posted all of that on THIS thread before. :-/

It's a great movie with the biggest movie star of all. And All About Eve and ...Baby Jane were definitely both Oscar-worthy.

Here's Bette's former house in Laguna Beach. It's really lovely, I wonder why she gave it up. Can you imagine all the glasses of scotch that were gulped down and all the Pall Malls that were chain-smoked in there?

That's not Bette's house. Her house was a much smaller English style. It actually says in this article it's where she met Gary Merrill ( or whatever the husband's name was)- not that it was her house.

There are images of Bette's actual house if you Google.

R322, sorry about that post- but at least one person missed it.

Oops, it was Grant Sherry she met for 324.

Her first husband was really cute. There have never been any rumors about her being bi.

I really love Now, Voyager and really love Bette Davis in just about anything. Even watching her old interviews is so entertaining.

Bette Davis was not the least bit bi, she was straight as an arrow. She was very supportive of gay and lesbian people, though and had a lot of us as friends throughout her life.

It's amazing she lived as long as she did with all the cigs and booze, non-stop all day every day.

I wish it had been shot in color.

She adored Robert Osborne. They had many a dinner together.

R329, she was a tough Yankee. Without that stuff, she'd still be here!

r332 she died from breast cancer, as did her sister. It wouldn't have mattered whether or not she smoked or drank.

Maybe, but smoking and drinking are sometimes contributing factors to cancer. Also, she'd had a debilitating stroke a few years earlier.

I love Bette Davis movies and all my favorites have been mentioned. I like her in Now, Voyager so much that I even went to see the movie when it was being shown at a repertory theater. But I don't think it's romantic. Jerry was married and he was a pretty shitty father too. I always wanted Charlotte with Dr. Jaquith.

[quote]I wish it had been shot in color.

It would have been way better in color.

Warners was very leery of Technicolor. Technicolor was always an expensive addition to a films budget - it sometimes doubled it. In 1929-30-31 they used two-strip Technicolor for nearly all of their musicals and comedies many of which bombed. Though Jack Warner made some notable 3-strip Technicolor films in the later '30s and early 40s (notably ROBIN HOOD) hebdoled out color very sporadically over the next decade - YANKEE DOODLE DANDY (1942) was made in black and white and the lavish musical bio pic of Nora Bayes starring Ann Sheridan (SHINE ON, HARVEST MOON) had only its final reel in Technicolor.

I think Bette looked her best in Now, Voyager.

I believe she would have said Mr. Skeffington, r338.

This thread inspired me to buy the E-Book and read it this afternoon/evening. As usual the book is better than the film, which has been among my favorites since I saw it at ~14 on PBS one Saturday night. Even Tina, who is insufferable in the film , is a pleasant addition to the book.

Here's some trivia for those who've posting about Gladys Cooper and Cathleen Nesbitt.

Nesbitt played Mrs. Higgins (Henry's mother) in the original Broadway production of My Fair Lady.

Cooper played the part in the film.

In 1981, Rex Harrison, in his 70s, starred in a Broadway revival of My Fair Lady. Nesbitt, then in her 90s, again played his mother.

The reason Davis didn't keep her NV hairstyle was that that exaggerated pompadour went in and out of fashion very quickly in the early 1940s. As early as 1944, Ginger Rogers was embarrassed to be seen in it when Lady in the Dark opened; the film had been shot well over a year earlier and for some reason its release was delayed. Not a good thing for a film in which current fashion played a large part.

For the poster who said Norma Shearer couldn't have played the part because she under exclusive contract to MGM: Shearer left MGM in early 1942 and her name was mentioned as a possibility for Charlotte. But Shearer not only left MGM, she retired from acting altogether when she left.

Excellent thread! So glad to see that so many people love this movie & Bette Davis -- hope abides!

I am with you OP. I absolutely adore this movie. One of my favorites. I'd have awarded Davis another Oscar for this magnificent performance.

The story goes that Warner originally cast Irene Dunne in the role of Charlotte on loan-out, but Bette, who as a New Englander thought she understood the character, her world and mentality, insisted that she play the part. The Queen of Warner Brothers got her way.

Did Bette ever do any decent nudity in her movies?

Yes, she showed her pussy in Baby Jane but the scene was cut after test audiences gagged.

THE Vales of Boston condescended to sail on a P&O liner? Well, maybe, depending on how exotic the route.

P&O was originally the Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Company, which was a successful but never a particularly sought-after passage. In the years after WWII, the remains of the Company were sold off partly as Princess Cruises, which were eventually absorbed into Carnival Corporation & plc, who currently operate Carnival Cruise Lines among several others, and the rest of the assets, to make a very long story short, into various Dubai based container ship companies. Some of the US assets of those sales have been challenged by people opposed to the mid-Eastern ownership.

^ And if you're thinking I'm saying that Charlotte Vail sailed on The Love Boat, that's exactly what I'm saying. Most of The Love Boat episodes were filmed on The Pacific Princess or one of her sisters. How déclassé.

[quote] Absolutely not, because you were men the whole time. There are no "valid reasons" to identify with women or their struggle, period. Stop that fucking bullshit especially when women themselves hate it, including Bette Davis herself who complained about fags camping up her work.

Here's what I'd like you to do... I'd like you to take a flight to Paris, and then take a helicopetr over the Eifeel Tower, and then jump out positioned so that the entire spire rams up your ass and splits you in two as painfully and definitively as possible.

You fucking homophobic piece-of-shit SJW CUNT.

^Charlotte Vale, not Vail! Whatever.

R342, the pompadour was a wig. That’s why she didn’t keep it.

That pompadour quickly went out style. That's why she didn't keep the wig.

This your favorite movie of all time?

God, I'd hate to be stuck in your elevator

You know what you can stick up YOUR elevator.

I couldn't figure out what kind of accent Jerry had, and they didn't reference it in the movie. Charlotte seemed more traveled than him, so the character didn't seem European. At first I thought he sounded French, but Paul Henried was Austrian. I noticed in 1930's and 1940's movies, accents weren't dropped and we were to assume the characters were American. (One example was when a very British-sounding Claude Rains told Bette Davis' character in Mrs. Skeffington that he was born and raised in New York. It's strange that even a stage actor of his caliber didn't bother to adopt an American accent for the film.)

^ I meant for the film "Mrs. Skeffington", although Claude Rains didn't use an American accent in Now, Voyager either.

R356: Google Mid-Atlantic accent. It got slightly more complicated for Hollywood actors born in Europe like Henried but that was still what they were expected to strive for.

Some people think that Received Pronunciation is the same as the mid-Atlantic accent but that's simply not true. Received Pronunciation is, however, an important influence on the mid-Atlantic accent.

Interesting, R358. That explains it!

Gladys Cooper and John Loder kept their Brit accents in that. Loder was married to Hedy Lamarr in the 40s, and Davis was godmother to their daughter.

In the scene that the therapied Charlotte has with her mother, she thrice says, "I'm not afraid of you," each time with more conviction. Very effective. Mary Wickes, who played the nurse, was also with Davis in "Man Who Came to Dinner" and "June Bride" and the TV show pilot "The Decorator. "

Davis and Katherine Hepburn were the 1930s queens of mid-Atlantic pronunciation. Interesting to note -- or not -- they were both upper middle class New England Yankee girls who studied theater and speech in New York in the late 1920s before moving on to Hollywood.

I saw this movie for the first time recently, some scenes reminded me of TITANIC.

The American accent in places like Boston at that time was more British sounding than American. Davis does it perfectly in NV. Listen to the Kennedys even in the 1960s. They still say CAHN'T and SHAN'T....these things were holdovers from British English and they were very strong at that time. And I don't think Jerry was supposed to be American.

Just watched this on a rainy Saturday afternoon, and I loved it.

R365, people who haven't yet seen the movies that I consider classics have so much to look forward to. I'm glad you loved your first time with this wonderful movie (& in the rain sounds perfect).

Davis starred in so many movies that I never tire of watching....Now Voyager, The Little Foxes, Jezebel, Dark Victory, Mr. Skeffington, The Letter, All About Eve, Baby Jane and Hush, Hush Sweet Charlotte. I can't say that I can watch any other actor's movies over and over except for Hepburn.

R366 - plus I was cradling a mug of tea! With a blanket over my lap!

It's one of her best movies.

One of the many movies that made Davis the icon and legend in film. I can't decide which one I've enjoyed more Now Voyager, The Little Foxes, The Letter or All About Eve. Along with Kate Hepburn, she was a national treasure.

Bette Davis, Katherine Hepburn, Joan Crawford, Barbara Stanwyck (sp), Ida Lupino (her films aren't shown enough).... all good, strong female leads, whose movies I enjoy. Back then, women drew top billing at the marquee.

On now on TCM!

I'm Miss Vail, Miss Charlotte Vail.

Of course, a spinster aunt is just right for picking presents for girls!

I love the martyred old maid scenes.

I adore this movie too, OP. I think Davis gives an absolutely brilliant performance. This should have been an Oscar for her. Everything about the movie is just perfect. The all-time greatest "women's picture", IMO. And I think Davis never looked better. As far as her acting goes, she really captured that character--so far from her own-- in a way that surprises me still. Davis really understood the craft of acting.

I'm shocked it only got three Oscar nominations. Davis and Gladys Cooper for acting and then it won Best Score (on a side note I love how Rosanna Arquette is watching this at the beginning of Desperately Seeking Susan. Little homage since this film influenced that one.)

Davis lost to Greer Garson in Mrs. Miniver.

There were 10 Best Picture nominess and this didn't get in! Some of those films are totally forgotten nowadays..

LOVE this movie

[quote] And the scene where her mother threatens to cut her off and Bette so proudly says "I'm not afraid anymore" makes me cry every time.

This is the dialogue from that moment:

Charlotte: "Well, I could earn my own living, Mother. As a matter of fact, I've often thought about it. I'd make a very good head waitress in a restaurant or..."

Mrs. Vale: 'You may think that very funny, but I guess you'll be laughing out of the other side of your face if I did carry out my suggestion."

Charlotte: "I don't think I would. I'm not afraid, Mother." (Surprised at what she just said, so repeats herself.) "I'm not afraid." (Turns happily to tell Mrs. Vale) "I'm not afraid, Mother!"

Now I agree this is a moving sequence, even though it is a little cheesy. (Charles Busch has used this dialogue in a number of his plays.) But what I also love about it are two things:

1) Even though she's never had any work experience whatsoever in her life, Charlotte just assumes she would naturally be the [italic]head[/italic] waitress;

2) Bette Davis joyfully turns her head to her mother at her second "I'm not afraid, mother!," as if Mrs. Vale is going to be happy for her for discovering this.

I am intrigued by the attention paid to Mother Vale's fingers in two different scenes. Right before Charlotte makes her appearance for the introduction to the head doctor, the camera zooms in on Ma Vale's fingers clasped in her lap, somewhat fidgeting. Then again when Charlotte is getting ready to go out and Mother Vale is talking to her from near the bed, Mom is tapping her fingers against the heavy poster and the camera zooms in on those taps.

Bette loved working with Gladys, said she was never late, knew her dialogue and it was a pleasure to work with such a professional. She loved Claude Rains too.

Ugh that mom is a terrible old biddy. Imagine having the entitlement of setting aside one child to live in servitude to you, looking after your cranky, aging ass while you pick on her and criticize her about everything, leaving her with no hope or thought of her own life apart from these imposed obligations.

Bette Davis seemed determined to continue working. She tried a musical written for Mary Martin based on a film. Martin turned it down.

Starts on TCM within the hour.

OMG! It's starting!