Eighteen PSU Frat Boys Charged In Hazing Death

Stupid and unforgivable.

Sounds like a movie plot.

Betcha ten bucks none of those 18 boys even stands trial, much less does jail time.

I am glad they charged 8 guys.

they knew he was in distress and just left him there, all night.

Why wouldn't you post a source, OP?

Anyway, someone actually noticed that something was wrong and told them they needed to get him to the hospital. He was then shoved against a wall and told to leave. Really fucked up shit.

Most parents don't have a clue what their kids are doing when they are away from school. Some parents never even see what's going on right under their own roof.

Of course, the sweet young boys tried to lie their way around what actually​ happened, but there were security cameras on the property that provided the details.

Just read the whole article. I am sickened by the details.

I went to Penn State and was in a fraternity - not Beta Theta Pi though. Beta Theta Pi, while I was at Penn State, was where all of the rich, preppy guys ended up. It had a very good reputation while I was there.

Right because rich preppy white guys never do anything wrong r9

We sure don't.

Rich preppy STUPID guys apparently.

That's telling him, R10.

Getting a full five bars from you!

Rich kids were always the worst. No matter what they did and how much trouble they got into, mommy and daddy were always there to bail them out.

White people problems

No, R15. Athletic people-of-all-colour's problems.

[quote] Athletic people-of-all-colour's problems

No frat boys are not always "jocks".

Once the air clears of this situation, nothing at all will change.

College guys will still be college guys: young, horny, and stupid. It won't go away.

Young 'dude bros', with raging hormones and a desire to be 'real men', will continue to do shit like this forever.

It's only a 'big deal' when something like this is brought to light. It WILL happen again.

natural selection

At this point, is there any reason why the PSU football program should simply not be shut down permanently? If you can make an argument why it shouldn't — other than "but it brings so much money to the University! — please proceed.

[quote]At some point, lives have to count more than profit

I was in a fraternity when I was in college. We did crazy shit all time. When you're young, you don't think this stuff is going to kill you and when you're young you don't think anyone is going to die from partying too much. This is sad, but what do you want? There will be no lessons learned here.

Indeed, R21.

College Kids: The more they know, the dumber they get.

When I went to PSU, I was in the Greek system, and we were constantly lectured about liability, liability, liability.

Pathetic that the parent frat says it doesn't tolerate this kind of drinking. Of course it does and it's happening at frats all over the country

A few years ago, a house in my neighborhood was rented out to six college girls who partied every single day. The day the were to graduate, one of the girls wast too sick/ hung over to make it to her own graduation. Her roommates we outside arguing pretty loudly about what to do, and eventually left. The next door neighbors heard this, and decided to call the police to check on her, any they sent for an ambulance and carted her off to the hospital. The police told my neighbors that if they hadn't called, the situation would not have ended well. We never actually knew what happened, or how things turned out.

Four of the girls were nursing students, the other two were premed. Go figure ?

We have three colleges in my home town, one of which is a branch of Penn State. They were interviewing colleges students from all three colleges, and they all denied that anything like that ever happens at their universities.

They campus police tell city residents that if there is a problem with students, to call them rather than the city police and they will address the issue promptly, which basically means we'll keep it to ourselves, won't tell anyone, and sweep it under the rug like we usually do.

You can only fantasize about what happens to those gorgeous preppies when they head to jail. Serves them right.

[quote]No frat boys are not always "jocks".

The ones that do this hazing shit are.

Watch the second video to see David Tyler Muir's report.

[quote]Four of the girls were nursing students, the other two were premed. Go figure ?

I'm sure they're all rich now.

I was "hazed" by two handsome, tall, rich, horse-hung, preppy non-jocks at Alpha Douche at Cornell. Good times!

The first time I had sex with a guy was in a fraternity house. This brother asked me if I'd like to sleep over instead of walking back to my dorm, my first weekend of freshman year.

I knew just what to do when I woke up to find his lips on my cock.

I'm confused. He fell down the basement steps twice?

[quote]I went to Penn State and was in a fraternity - not Beta Theta Pi though. Beta Theta Pi, while I was at Penn State, was where all of the rich, preppy guys ended up. It had a very good reputation while I was there.

Well R9, when I was there for a while ....

1. There was one sorority which did hazing in the form of, making the girls paint their faces white and not talk to anyone for a week. That was harmless.

2. There was one frat which kidnapped students from their room, tied them to a spit and carried them around campus from one side to the other. Also harmless.

3. A friend, while drunk, fell three stories out of his frat house window. He broke his leg. Nice guy though. Glad that was all that happened.

4. There were at least two cases of alcohol poisoning but in both cases someone intervened and got the person to a hospital. In one of those cases, the kid wasn't even a member of the frat BUT he was underage and somehow got into a party.

This incident here is so beyond any of those things. It's not even that he got drunk it's that they seemed to not want to get him any help because none of them were smart enough/or they were too scared to. This is some TV movie horror level stuff.

Yes but was the victim hung?

The dead guy wasn't all that HAWT so does his death really matter?

[quote]It's not even that he got drunk it's that they seemed to not want to get him any help because none of them were smart enough/or they were too scared to.

What gets me is that the one person who suggested they get him to the hospital was admonished and kicked out of the house. That's mental. I wonder who the alphabro was in that scenario, making sure everyone kept their mouths shut and do nothing while their friend slowly died of alcohol poisoning.

why not just drop his ass off at a hospital and speed away

The entire fraternity was probably drunk and not thinking clearly about getting him to the hospital,

He may not have died of alcohol poisoning. The article said he had internal injuries. I hope at least he was unconscious all those hours.

r41 They knew what they were doing, they didn't want to get busted

Your typical entitled, molly coddled, pampered, spoiled rotten suburban white boys at work. All of these little bitches will get off with a slap on the wrist. They'll then grown up to be right wing fascist "law and order" types, dismissing their antics as boyhood pranks, and trashing anyone who doesn't have their "work ethic."

Something similar happened with girls at Miami U. in Ohio a couple months ago and there was not a big fuss. Same thing. Someone needed medical attention, instead forced to "sleep it off" and nobody calls for help until morning. And Miami U. is the like the American capital of alcohol poisoning. They have incident every year in the university which practically invented American mass education with McGuffey readers.

[quote]why not just drop his ass off at a hospital and speed away

They clearly didn't watch enough Traffic...

Couple of years ago, we had two students in separate incidents found literally frozen to death in the snow after attending parties. The assumption was that one fell and died from a head injury, the other one just passed out. No big investigation, and the partying still goes on.

I'm so old, I remember when getting drunk on a Saturday Night was splitting a six pack of beer with two or three friends. You may or may not have also shared a single joint. And you always.made it home for midnight curfew.

The same things humans do outside of fraternities they also do inside of fraternities. However, if it involves a fraternity, the fraternal system gets blamed in addition to the actual perpetrators. College age people do stupid things and that is why the drinking age is 21. The 26th amendment lets them vote even though they are not mature enough to make good decisions.

This is Jonah Neuman. He's the one who shoved Kordel Davis (the guy who insisted they call 911) against the wall and told him to leave.

R36 - considering this university's history with covering up illegal and reprehensible acts up your observations don't mean much.

Ludicrous, it's not like this was planned, it was less intentional than an HIV+ fucking someone.

I was in a fraternity at PSU and indeed Beta Theta Pi did have an upscale reputation. Their house was down from Rec Hall on campus and had the reputation of good looks, money or athletics. The big animal house at that time was Delta Upsilon (DU) which was one long constant party. I don't think too many DU guy's had much of a liver left at graduation. I'm not sure why the political correctness police are so hard on fraternities - aren't there Black or White Parties where it's common knowledge hard designer drugs are encouraged and barebacking goes on?

Someone on Reddit had this to say about the matter:

[quote]My roommate is actually a paramedic here. He didn't respond to this but he works and is close friend with everyone who did. If it was his shift, he would have been at the house that morning.

[quote]I was just talking to him. From what his coworkers described it was worse than anything the media has portrayed. Blood coming out of his ear, the body dragged across the floor up the stairs, brothers yelling at each other to shut the fuck up, paramedics getting flustered trying to (knowing the won't) save this kid's life, the cops getting angry and Beta brothers getting upset back at them.

[quote]Brothers were saying "We don't know what happened!" to cover their own asses, and Paramedics can do a lot with the information they withheld. My roommate has absolutely no sympathy for these guys, and he's closer to this story than anyone I've met.

Also, R52, these boys had ample time and multiple opportunities to save the kid's life and they intentionally did [italic]nothing[/italic]. There's footage of them slapping the deceased in the abdomen, jumping on him all while he had a concussion. They spent 40 minutes Googling, "How to treat head injuries," instead of calling 911.

[quote]considering this university's history with covering up illegal and reprehensible acts up your observations don't mean much.

My observations, R51, were things that I saw with my own two eyes. That's exactly what an observation is. They were neither a defense or admonishment of the University. My point was: there were things going on all the time of varying degrees.

The "covering up illegal and reprehensible acts" took place mostly with the athletes and related parties. I didn't "witness" anything personally but I heard enough from people who knew to tell you that the entire place was pretty fucked up even beyond what you've heard. I didn't know about the Sandusky stuff. I did know there were many sexual assaults that were covered up with women afraid to speak out. Most of them left campus for fear of reprisal when the administration was uncooperative with actually dealing with these issues.

I was there when Cindy Song disappeared. That's when things on campus began to change. The internet was becoming more popular as were cell phones with cameras. It was slowly becoming harder for things to be hidden. A serial rapist on campus was suddenly national news. Race issues started being covered on TV. There was a shift from the time I arrived to the time I left. At the beginning when things happened you heard about them in whispers. By the end, you could turn on the TV and see what was going down that you didn't know about.

I would most certainly think twice about sending a kid there knowing now what I didn't know when I went.

One of the problems with Penn State is its all powerful Alumni Association. They vigorously defend any and all behaviors because Penn State's legacy is much more important than any individual's rights. It's very Nazi-like, where the all powerful state was more important than the people.

As ex-governor Tom Corbett found out, you don't fuck with these people and keep your job.

Did you notice that ABC dispatched Gio Benitez to State College to look into the fraternity boys' situation?

Yes, r57. Very clever, having a good looking gay guy reporting on this fraternity's problems really let them have it.

It was a stoke of sheer luck that the security cameras were on the premises, and working properly.

We went to the ER all the time, carrying each other in with various injuries from assorted hijinks. We stayed until they were released. I was in a coma once for a couple days, and when I woke up, my brothers and some of the girls were there. This is unfathomable to me.

While massive head and internal injuries resulted in death, let's not forget that his BAC was reported at 4x the legal limit. Alcohol is directly related to his death. If not for the huge consumption, he would not have fallen several times, prior to falling down the stairs head first.

His frat buddies probably thought it was all pretty funny seeing him stumble and fall repeatedly, until he fell down the stairs head first. And the frat boys weren't too drunk to formulate a cover-up for their negligent actions.

It's all so cruel and disgusting, and I do hope they all do jail time.

[quote]I was in a coma once for a couple days, and when I woke up, my brothers and some of the girls were there.

What happened?

[R53] Are you serious? Maybe, just maybe it's because circuit parties aren't associated with a goddamn EDUCATIONAL institution.

Kids always seem to afraid to call an ambulance--fearing they may get in trouble

"fearing they may get in trouble"

The only fear these little twats had was their future career and earnings potential going down the drain. They could not care less that their "brah" died.

I don't think tiny, homely, illiterate Jonah Neuman had a promising future anyway, above and beyond the whole murder thing. His Nashville parents sent him to what passes as a college-prep institution in the South (Battle Ground Academy), but the small fortune they spent doesn't seem to have paid off, as seen in his personal statement. I'm not surprised, I guess, since the school itself doesn't know how to spell "battleground."

R18 is so right! This is a sad situation, it always is, drinking often involves college boys not-yet men. There is a lot of ant-college boy and anti-frat boy here. That's sad. Worse is the needless loss of life. None of the boys set out to kill, all thought Piazza would sleep it off, none thought drunken revelry could go wrong. Sadly, excessive drinking and hazing goes on at most college fraternities, no matter national/chapter and campus regulations against it. Doesn't make it right, but it happened at this Beta house at the bid-night pledging party. Been there, done that. One guy has a violent reaction to the booze. It all seems a big joke. He'll sleep it off. They usually do. Timothy Piazza reportedly fell numerous times during the permissive evening, was seen on video throwing up and twitching with the brothers trying to help. The term "Falling down drunk" comes about because it happens, and is reportedly seen on Beta-house security video at 3, 4, 5 am after Piazza had already fallen down basement stairs once. And after 7 am he fell down the basement stairs a second time. Later, members found him unconscious, cold to the touch, with blood on his face, according to reports. Worried, and wouldn't you think so, 911 was called. Piazza died in hospital the next morning. Eight members are charged with Involuntary Manslaughter, as was the chapter. Additional charges against ten others in the house include hazing, aggravated and simple assault, alcohol-related violations and tampering with evidence. The boys are in deep trouble. Involuntary manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice aforethought, either expressed or implied. Death caused by from serious negligence and serious recklessness! Manslaughter from an omission to act when there is a duty to do so, a failure to perform a duty owed, which leads to a death. I weep for the parents, for all.

R67, oh shut up you asswipe frat boy apologist!

He was 5 foot 6 130 pounds, and they gave him alcohol which would kill somebody twice as big.

ban homosexuals. they get aids. isn't it time for this to stop?

One of my roommates was gone for three days. I don't think they took him to to the hospital. When he got back all he would say is don't mix quaaludes with alcohol. But I have a feeling there was a near death experience and who knows what else as he ended up with a triple hernia.

I can't even read that timeline posted it's so disturbing.

[quote]He was 5 foot 6 130 pounds, and they gave him alcohol which would kill somebody twice as big.

You're confusing Jonah Neuman with Timothy Piazza, who looked a fair bit taller than 5'6". Neuman's the short one, and I wouldn't be surprised if that fueled his bullish demeanor.

R36 - I never claimed your observations were anything but your own observations I pointed out that considering PSU's history with cover-ups that went right up to the President's Office the observations don't mean much.

Sandusky may have been a PSU Athletic Department employee to ignore the AD and Fraternities is naive.

I think it is reasonable to assume that any school that would cover up raping children wouldn't hesitate to cover up hazing and alcohol abuse at a Fraternity.

Please relax.

Did you read the lastest report? That kid was in and out of consciousness all night and begged for help. The fatal flaw was at the beginning of the night. His brothers did everything NOT to help him. I can't wrap my head around their motivation. Just because the shouldnt have had booze? That a pretty harmless offense in comparison to not helping someone in serious distress. If they had called an ambulance, the kid would likely have survived and they would probably have been slapped on the wrist for underage drinking and for hazing. big deal. How dumb are they?

article

Remember Jon Hamm?

Every time I read this article I get sick to my stomach.

"I'm not sure why the political correctness police are so hard on fraternities - aren't there Black or White Parties where it's common knowledge hard designer drugs are encouraged and barebacking goes on?"

Political correctness police? Did you just get back from a Trump rally?

Those poor Frat Boys. They shouldn't be charged with anything. You people are sorely lacking in discernment , empathy, and compassion. You're certainly the ugliest people I've heard from on DL in a very long time. The anti-alcohol posters here seem to be obsessive, diseased, and dangerous to be around. Some of these Frat Boys are likely alcoholics and they deserve a pass because alcoholism is a disease. They need to try AA and read a few books and then all can be forgiven.

What a horrible story, so sad and unnecessary.

Unfortunately, the likely outcome will be that the university will crack down heavily on hazing and drinking next year, a little less so the following year, a little less so the year after that, till things are back the way they were and something like this happens yet again.

I meant to say the fatal fall. He fell down the cellar steps early on. Then came in and out in consciousness and was up and about, falling all over the place. I guess it could be argued that the brothers were blotto so figured he was blotto but basically OK?

Ban the gross Greek system.

When it comes down to a choice of someone covering their own ass, or helping you, your friends are not always your friends.

Between this, Sandusky, Paterno, complicity in child rape...

They should burn this shitty "University" to the ground.

These boys are going to be convicted. There is video footage of this. The jury is going to be sick their stomach. That's the biggest problem with the Greek system...they aren't your friends. You basically pay to have friends and get humiliated. It's archaic and gross.

The ONLY thing the Frat Bros were concerned about was the getting their sorry asses kicked out of school for providing massive quantities of alcohol to underage students, and allowing them to consume it in extremely dangerous amounts.

That's exactly right r87. They are going to get convicted.

R80.......pretend that kid was your brother, your cousin, your nephew, or your close friend.

Now repeat the idiocy that you just posted, only louder this time.

When I saw the thread I thought to myself that, given DLs audience, there were going to be a whole lot of posts from guys who hated frat boys and everything they stood for, mixed in with a couple from guys who fetishized them.

You did not disappoint.

I fucked a hot Beta Theta guy at Penn State in 1970

Wow R91

I don't think my father had hit puberty in 1970. Good for you for remaining active!

We here many similar stories every year, but for some reason this incident has impacted so many people, more so than anyone could have imagined.

Maybe this will be the one that finally brings positive changes and harsher penalties to these cruel and heartless offenders.

Reading Piazza's obituary this kid had a big heart, and selflessly gave back to his community in so many ways. He accomplished more in his short lifetime than many people accomplished in a full lifetime.

His parents truly have so many reasons to be proud of their kind hearted son. His loss will be felt by so many people who benefitted from kindness.

Pffft. Pikers.

Who do they think they are--LSU Greeks?

r93 it's because of the power of video footage. While I believe they were Snapchat videos taken throughout the night, which aren't saved after viewing, many people witness the gradual death of a peer. Coupled with the surveillance footage and coverup, there is a truckload of factors held against this group of frat boys. Finally, it's Penn State which already leaves a bad taste in people's mouths.

This was almost like torture for the poor boy. I've been drunk many times in college, but my friends would never disregard my safety. We always had a DD, get hungry after drinking, that could be a great help to get my male and female friends home safely. These people weren't his friends at all because real friends wouldn't leave someone they care about to slowly die on their couch.

I need to proofread my stuff. Sorry guys ^

I think many of the posters here are under the mistaken impression that Penn State (or in fact, most universities) have ultimate power over fraternities, their policies, and behavior. In reality, schools do not have as much power over fraternities as they would like.

In general, Penn State can set certain guidelines for fraternities, and if they're not met, can chose not to recognize the organization, essentially banning it from recruiting on campus and participating in university-sponsored activities like homecoming, but that's about it.

In the end, at Penn State and at many other universities, fraternities are private organizations that exist on private property. Schools have no legal authority or mechanism to police organizations beyond the confines of their campus.

One of the accounts mentioned a bruised abdomen. That suggests either gut-punching as a hazing ritual, or maybe kicking him in the gut to try and revive him when he passed out.

The autopsy on this kid will be telling.

Just letting him slowly die is unforgivable. Then lying about it to cover their asses?

There are no words . . . . . . . .

Not a Frat Rat, but lived on my university's Greek Row in college. Saw bad behavior of every kind. That's why the UVA rape story was easy for me to believe.

A ginger with an Italian name, life was never easy for him.

[quote]This is Jonah Neuman. He's the one who shoved Kordel Davis (the guy who insisted they call 911) against the wall and told him to leave.

Nnneuman!

I don't understand why that kid, Kordel Davis, didn't call 911, himself, after getting kicked out.

Yeah, many have wondered why Kordel didn't end up calling 911 himself. I'm assuming everyone was petrified by the consequences. Also, I'm sure peer pressure is insane in fraternities. Is Kordel part of the 18 that are facing charges?

[quote]Every time I read this article I get sick to my stomach.

I saw this post prior to reading R76 and thought the poster was being a little dramatic because...this happens. Boy, was I wrong.

This is like the most unbelievable plot from an old-school SVU episode. That poor kid.

Anyone see that film Mean Creek?

Whether these assholes are convicted or not depends on where the DA with juristiction is, and where the trial is held. Penn State is in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by a town that's completely dependent on the university for it's economy. Part of the problem with Penn State is that the local justice system is complicit in covering up all the illegal activities covered under "partying" at a party school, just like the worthless campus police.

Put those spoiled little shits on trial in front of normal people and they'd do hard time, hold it in Happy Valley and they'll get probation and a semester at home. That is one sick place.

Yes r108 Penn State (State College, PA) is the town is totally a mafia of sorts. I've spent considerable time there and it's a twisted little town with Nittany Lions everywhere and (now removed) statues and photos of Joe Paterno everywhere. It's awful.

Jay Paterno was just elected to their Board of Trustees.

I will be surprised if there is no jail time served. THey prevented a dying person from getting help, then covered it up.

What kind of fathers do these kids have? My father was one of the fathers, and there were a few, who was called when our shit storms were out of control. We are talking jr high an high school. My father would arrive and take control, get everyone home safely and a few times get the hurt person the hospital. He was cool as a cucumber and neutral with all parents and ratty no one out, concentrating on the situation at hand. There was another father I remember who could do the same. Both were catholic, incidentally. Sometimes my friends would call my father to fix a situation when I wasn't even involved. We would all eventually get the book thrown at us (not the bibble - my dad was a severely lapsed catholic"). It was a searing intellectual and moral reading of my stupidity. It might come days later. The priority was getting everything back to normal and everyone safe.

I don't understand out of ALL those boys there present, not ONE boy (young man) had enough relationship with adult authority to see that they were all in WAY OVER THEIR HEADS and it was a cluster fuck. And call an adult. Campus Police. Regular Police. Coach. Whatever.

"Ratty"? "Bibble"?

r112 funny you mention catholicism because to me the culture at PSU seems by default and unofficially catholic: ie you obey the group. the worst thing you can do is be a Judas, ie a snitch. That mindset caused the pedo scandal to simmer for so long and cost this young kid his lfe.

Why anyone would want to be in a fraternity is beyond me. It seems like the most mindless, lemming thing to do. Sorry, but I tend to judge people who were in frats or sororities - unless there were academic or black fraternities.

R113 yeah guilty as charged for the spelling. and?

White college boys are some of the most dangerous people on earth

People who were rejected to become members of a fraternity or sorority, do you realize how lucky you are? It may have very well have save your life.

This is the heart of darkness that is, IMHO, found at the heart of any serious party scene. Not just frats, but anyplace the cool and thoughtless gather together and devote themselves to partying... thrills are the first priority, and the worst thing anyone can do is to be uncool. Of course any concern for your own safety or the safety of others is too uncool to be borne, and so is complaining of injury (emotional of physical). To be hurt is to be weak, and therefore uncool, and to accuse someone else of hurting you destroys the mood and troubles everyone's conscience and is such a buzzkill that complaining about an injury can be social death. Typically.

Which in a really party-hardy place like Penn State, led to a truly sick culture that enabled kiddie-diddling, and allegedly covers up physical and sexual assaults committed by the privileged jock class. Remember the Nate Parker case, where he raped some poor passed-out girl, and he was never punished but she was harassed until she left school and later committed suicide? That's the sort of culture they have there, where the frat douches do what they want and their victims are punished. Still, this is a new low!

After the much publicized Jerry Sandusky trial, I doubt that these boys are going to get away with this horrendous crime. Many people already have a negative opinion of Penn State, and this certainly isn't going to be good for business. I'd love to know how this affects enrollment statistics before and after this latest "unfortunate incident."

[quote]I meant to say the fatal fall. He fell down the cellar steps early on. Then came in and out in consciousness and was up and about, falling all over the place. I guess it could be argued that the brothers were blotto so figured he was blotto but basically OK?

It's SOOOO much worse than that.

Poor kid.

"That's the sort of culture they have there."

As I said up thread, that culture is vigorously upheld and defended by the Penn State Alumni Association. If you try to change that culture, the PSAA will throw the hammer down on anyone real fast.

"Unable to wake him up, they attached a filled backpack to Piazza's back in an attempt to keep him from lying on his back and possibly choking to death on his vomit. It's called "backpacking" by fraternity members."

So they all know how deadly this can be.

I hope they spend decades in prison.

Dean Wormer: "Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son." And I'm sure the good Dean would have added "amoral" to the list for Gary DiBileo, Jr. Hmmm... let's see how much time he actually serves: "DiBileo is the namesake son of a prominent Penn State graduate, Lackawanna County Controller Gary DiBileo Sr., a successful Scranton businessman for nearly 30 years."

Michael Bonatucci has a certain Kushneresque quality about him.

Alcohol poisoning often kills people who engage in this kind of behavior, but it's kind of invisible, ie people get blotto and pass out and their heart and breathing just stops. I've never heard of a case where someone gave so many signs they were in serious need of medical help. The blood alone should have freaked people out enough to call 911.

The US has the Greek system, Brits have "clubs." What do the French and Germans have?

body odor?

Why would they not have called an ambulance? Were they afraid they'd get busted for giving alcohol to minors? Or did they just think it was 'wussy' to need help?

For R128

I was in a fraternity and it was a great experience. I'm still close with several of them and stay in touch with all of them. Nothing changed for them after a I came out. Bad things happen sometimes. This could have just as easily happened at Penn State Chess Club.

But it didn't happen at the Penn State Chess Club.

It happened at a frat house with a dubious reputation.

This was far more than a "bad thing" that happened.

It was total irresponsibility by a group a selfish little bastards who attempted to cover up their actions that resulted in the death of a nineteen year old boy.

It should never have "just happened."

I read an article regarding the arrests, that stated one or more of the frat boy Googled " head injuries. "

This proves that they knew exactly what was going on on, and how serious this situation was.

And still, they did absolutely nothing into twelve hours later.

It didn't 'easily happen'. It was caused. At least one person who wanted to seek help was THREATENED if he did so.

If would have been a case of a bad thing happening if the kid seemed fine and went to sleep and never woke up. That does happen. But this was a kid staggering around, bleeding and banged up, being deliberately ignored.

Where did the blood in his stomach come from? I know his head was banged up and he had bruises on his stomach but what bled into it?

He lacerated his spleen. The abdominal bruise is called Grey-Turner's Sign.

r137 Thank you! I love learning new medical stuff.

R131's hilariously glib. Is this how all frat boys are responding to this news?

This could have easily happened at the chess club? As if nothing about fraternity culture and groupthink resulted in the death of this young man. I bet you if the chess club threw their version of a rager and someone so much as threw up they'd call 911.

I doubt the chess club would be as, umm, calculating.

But then again, Brendan Young the Beta president IS actually majoring in "enterprise risk management" at Penn State.

WAS actually majoring...

IS majoring, R141. They will all get a slap on the wrist and continue on with their lives. Their big powerful daddies will see to it, otherwise no endowment money for PSU.

We'll see. I agree with the user above who said that the charges will likely stick due to the college's reputation and the video evidence. It'd be fucked if they simply got a slap on the wrist.

How does one lacerate a speech by falling on your head?

[quote]How does one lacerate a speech by falling on your head?

He fell down a bunch of stairs several times. He probably broke a rib which then caused the splenic laceration.

[quote]How does one lacerate a speech by falling on your head?

Words can be tricky little devils.

[quote]What kind of fathers do these kids have?

Most likely the kind that beats your feelings out of you and delivers one final kick in the ass that sends you outside to play with a football.

You know, the North American species of Father.

I, too, am sure they'll get off with a mere slap on the wrist, because they're rich white boys.

Now, if this had happened to a frat of non-rich black boys, they'd all still be cooling their heels from the initial arrest, and 3-6 of them would get life in prison while the rest would serve at least a few years.

"What kind of fathers do these guys have?"

Probably the kind that have spent the boys' entire lifetimes railing against providing healthcare to the poor. The little shits have probably grown up hearing "It's not your problem if one of THOSE people needs an operation".

And as to this happening in a chess club... chess clubs don't have a culture of toxic bravado and despising weakness, or of being dumbasses. If a chess club had had an underage member fall down a flight of stairs while drunk and get hurt, they'd probably do something clever like sneaking him into the frat they hated most and calling an ambulance to that location. That'd both get help their member, and get the frat into trouble for having underage drunks present.

[quote]This could have just as easily happened at Penn State Chess Club.

Can't make this shit up.

Incidentally, the one decent human being trying repeatedly to get the kid to the hospital was Kordel Davis - who is black. Just thought the DL racists would need that information.

Not a yankee. So just need clarification. Wouldn't Penn STATE be the college for the poors? If you can afford it, you go to Penn in Philadelphia, right?

R151 Ringleader of the DL racists.

[quote] If you can afford it, you go to Penn in Philadelphia, right?

Only if you get in, r152. It's not some automatic Pennsylvania thing. You sound like one of the dumbs.

Tuition for Pennsylvania residents is about $16K USD a year, R152. That does not include room and board.

For non-Pennsylvania residents (the kid who died was from New Jersey), its 32K a year for tuition. Throw in room/board and its over 40K/year. Not exactly cheap.

R152 - what kind of fucked up stupid elitist comment is that? You know U Penn is private, Ivy League school and a completely different university than Penn State. But Penn State is still a good school.

Like you could get into either.

Horrific. The victim tried to get out of that house and save himself, but he couldn't even stand let alone walk.

R152, Penn State is a notorious "party school", people apply there because they want to spend their college years having a good time rather than achieving academic excellence.

There have been several mentions of a large and powerful alumni association, and I've heard that the place has a lot of "legacy" admissions, children of alumni have an easy time getting in. And that a lot of alumni are very supportive of the toxic party culture, they regard their years of beer busts and football as the best years of their lives, and want their kids to experience the same thing. Gawd, that place should be shut down, everything about it is vile.

Isn't it known for pedophilia as well as poors?

Penn State is a bottom feeder college. Home to Joe Pa, Sandusky and all kinds of lying pigs. As long as you can play football, that is all they care about.

Some of you sound like you spent 4 years in misery at college, that is if you even went to college. College is a lot of things. Don't turn one horrible event into an indictment of fraternity culture. I loved my for years, shame that more of you didn't.

This story has garnered too much attention to disappear. And Piazza's parents aren't going to let it die. They are getting messages of support from people all over the country. I think many colleges and universities are going to take a long, hard look at the things that occur on their own campuses, and reform their way of thinking. Too many parents are now even questioning what goes on at the very schools their own children attend, and just how safe they are. This is gonna rank right along side of sexual assaults on campus. It's just as deadly and dangerous.

why is this news only now? Just found out it happened in February.

I'm surprised that they didn't just dump him somewhere, and then claim that he was fine when he left, just wandered off on his own.

Oh, it's absolutely an indictment of toxic frat culture, R161, an overdue one. Some frats have become collections of elitist bullies who feel they have the right to rape their dates, injure each other, beat up nerds and queers, etc., without consequence or criticism. Because they and their families believe that well-to-do white boys should be forgiven for shit that would land a poor kid in jail for life.

Speaking of "queers", I really wonder how much gay bashing is covered up at Penn State. The police there are definitely not in the business of arresting the bully boys.

It was in the news, r163, and under investigation. Lot's of lies being told when it happened. But now that they've reviewed survelliance tapes, and gotten to the truth, they can press charges. It's not like a TV drama, something this important takes time and perseverance.

Actually r145 he was punched in the stomach a few times while passed out. It's in the grand jury report and on video.

[R152]: Just FYI -- Despite the name, Penn State is not a "state" university. It's classified as a "state-related" university. That means a tiny percentage of its budget comes from the state, but it is largely a private university.

[R158] and [R160]: You know nothing about Penn State. I have been on staff at four universities, including Penn State and that famous school in the Boston area. The vast majority of people at Penn State are incredibly dedicated, good people who are absolutely horrified by this incident. And they were horrified by the football scandal as well. Everyone involved should be (and hopefully will be) prosecuted and punished for their roles in these incidents.

Can't handle the truth r161.

Fraternities and Sororities aren't what they used to be, and they are no longer relevant.

Many students give back to their communities without belonging to these groups. They're outdated, and no longer serve any useful.purpose.

"These boys are going to be convicted."

But, convicted of what? I don't think, unfortunately, that any one of them will get convicted of involuntary manslaughter. Lesser offenses and no prison. Wonder what PSU will do to them. How much will they turn on each other? I think a bigger conviction for a few of them would take a bunch of others making consistent accusatory statements.

The Egregious Eighteen screwed themselves the minute they smiled for the camera.

Gotcha.......on video, boys!

Same shit still going on in almost all campuses. In my day we were drinking like crazy and snorting LOTS of blow. By Friday night, everyone had a gram of coke in their wallet or purse, at the very least and every frat house had plenty of booze. We lost one student due to alcohol and someone was always going into the ER for alcohol poisoning.

This dead kid fell back straight on the back of his skull on to hardwood floors, then he fell face first on a hard tile floor, and then fell head first down a flight of stairs. In between his falls, the other kids decided it was a good idea to smack him across the face, punch him in the stomach, and splash cold water on him in order to wake him up. They also had enough wherewithal to Google "what to do when someone suffers a head injury". Perhaps I'm wrong, but I get the feeling that the googling happened after the Kordell kid walked in and saw blood pouring out of the soon to be dead kid's ear.

The whole timeline is horrendous, but the drunk kid was doomed the minute her lacerated his spleen in the company of 18 young men who absolutely refused to seek emergency medical treatment for him.

18 people. 18. Unbelievable.

Why is Kordel being portrayed as some kind of hero? He also caved to peer pressure. Why didn't he call 911 when he knew he should?

Aside from the dead kid, sounds like these are future Jon Hamms and Paul Ryans of this generation. Maybe one of them can run a Fortune 500 company with Brock Turner in ten or so years. Rich white boys never do real jail time or have any lasting repercussions from these things. Never.

[quote]Why is Kordel being portrayed as some kind of hero?

No Bad Blacks.

I still think Penn STATE would be the ratchet school, wouldn't it? Like Mississippi State or Texas State or Michigan State or Iowa State or Cal State.

Everybody wants to go to THE University.

What R41 said. That, and they simply didn't give a shit.

I didn't read far enough. What R54 describes is even worse than I imagined, yet not surprising at all.

Kordell isn't being portrayed as a hero at all. He's simply being noted as someone who, at least for one second, vocally proposed doing the right thing, when few or no others every did. Stating that he's being portrayed as a hero is only a precursor to tear him down and make snippy comments like "no bad blacks".

Yeah but talk is cheap r179. He knew the kid was in trouble but he also did nothing. Unless i'm missing something and he is the one who finally called for help.

I was in a fraternity and could understand if they thought he was just drunk and ended up having accidental alcohol poisoning.

But they knew he fell down a flight of stairs. They saw blood coming out of his mouth. They stepped on him while he was down on the floor. This was happening for half a day. At some point you would think more than one of them would go beyond groupthink and be a decent person and get him help. I wonder what they would do if they saw a stranger fall down fifteen feet of stairs head first.

And since this is DL, I wonder if the carpet matched the drapes.

A general question: What can colleges do about fraternities or sororities from hell? Can they fine the frat as a local or national organization, insist on the removal of certain members, or temporarily or permanently ban specific fraternities from their university?

Also, is there any limit on who the family of the dead kid can sue? Penn State, the local fraternity, the national fraternity organization (if any), the manslaughterers and their families, anyone else? The local liquor stores or the town government?

[quote]A general question: What can colleges do about fraternities or sororities from hell?

They can ban them. The groupthink they promote goes against the purpose of universities.

R182 There's not a lot colleges can do. Fraternities are generally private organizations. Fraternity houses at many schools are owned by the fraternity's national organization, so they are private property. So, the school has no legal right to access fines or dictate membership.

In most cases, all a school can do is ban specific fraternities from operating on their campus.

As far as lawsuits go, the family can definitely sue the local fraternity chapter, the national organization, and the individuals directly involved. However, in this specific case, lawsuits against Penn State, local liquor stores, and the town of State College, PA are not likely to be successful. There's no evidence (at least so far) of liquor stores knowingly selling to or furnishing alcohol to under aged students; and the school and town government have little-to-no direct responsibility for the actions of a private club on private property.

What gets me is that there was an adult in his 50s, sleeping somewhere on the frat house, who never once even woke up through hours and hours of ruckus, and never inquired wtf was going on. And allegedly, these kids were all waiting for their chapter's president to get back to the frat house in order to make a determination of what, exactly? Here's a tip: aside from various falls throughout the 12 hours, as soon as you see blood coming out of anyone, especially via their ears, nose, or mouth, call an ambulance. Blood equals injury, blood equals blood loss. A huge hematoma on a person's back, flanks, or abdomen is a HUGE warning signal of ruptured organs and internal injuries. How fucking stupid can these kids be? Weren't some of them 21?

I hope some good can come from this and lead parents of college bound children into having a serious discussion. One about the importance of thinking for yourself and taking action when you know something is not right - even when you know you are going against a group mentality.

Fraternities are really an old, outdated concept that may have started with good intentions, but today that is no longer the case. Just get rid of the damn frats and sororities. They no longer serve any useful purpose other than promoting and condoning bad behavior.

What were the good intentions? Greek always seemed at odds with the point of university. Some schools banned them long ago.

When the concept of fraternities and sororities first began, the were intended to promote a connection between community, whether it be on or off campus. Much of it involved fund raisers and activities to benefit service organizations, and to show the community in which the college was located that they (the students) were more than participants in drinking, drug use, and sexual assault.

Today, that rarely seems to be the case.

Those of you who read Tim Piazza's obituary know how involved he was with his own community. He exemplified exactly what a caring a selfless person should be. A stellar example from a fine young man, and his parents have reason to be very proud of the son they raised.

r22 I just learned one. There are more assholes on DL than I thought.

R190, that's what really pisses me off. The Piazza kid did seem to be a good egg. At the minimum, one of those 18 kids who watched him suffer and die is a sociopath. And the Kordell kid must feel terrible because even though he tried twice to help Piazza, and was actually physically assaulted at his first attempt, he still went against his better judgement, and did not call EMS when he knew something was terribly wrong.

Maybe Billy Joel got it right. Only the good die young.

I believe Kordel was a fellow pledge, right? I'll bet hard money the new pledges had their phones taken away. "No calls from girlfriends! No calls from mommy! This is a manly night to do manly things at the fraternity!" When Kordel asked them to call 911, the active members had that shitty combination of "we're in charge here" combined with "don't tell us our business, young'un". In other words, that groupthink thing.

R181, I had to laugh. We're both going to hell.

I think the Greek system was founded to maintain "classism" or the desire to hang around "the right people". Also as an exclusive social club so you could feel superior to the rest. The whole thing sucks more than Masonic lodges for Christ sake.

I agree with r22, remember when Dan Motherfuck got his head lopped off? We all do dumb shit when we're young, some of us survive, some don't. I don't think it's assholey to say that, it's like anything you do when you're drunk, you don't realize what a bad idea it is. And yeah, do heroin overdoses make people stop doing drugs? No, everyone thinks it won't happen to them and life will go on as usual.

Someone should just burn Penn State to the ground. And put these slimeballs in when it goes up, along with all the "Joe Pa" worshippers.

Agreed, r197

R181 Thanks for the little bit of comic relief that made us smile. And to remind us that no matter how horrendous a situation is, life does indeed​ go on. And so will we.

Fuck Penn State and any school like it that pretends it makes you "special" for attending

All those boys need to suffer, feel enormous cognitive dissonance, and face justice. I hope their parents allow that to happen.

I suspect they will all point fingers. Nobody will own up to this. They'll all claim they had no idea he was dying.

If Casey Anthony can google how to kill her child, kill said child, and be found not guilty due to insufficient evidence, then a group of privileged drunk white boys can get off too.

Are they hot? Maybe I could make the State of Pennsylvania an offer for a plea-bargain. If one of the hotter ones offers to plead guilty and save the state the expense of a trial and incarceration, I could keep one as a sex slave for 5-10 years.

Everyone would win! The state would save public funds, the boy would be spared a criminal record, and during those years some hard justice would be SERVED!

I would be happy to paddle each boy black and blue once a week, for the next five years. When I'm done those white asses would prefer prison.

E190 really drank the Kool-Aid. Let's ask any college town from Cambridge to Berkeley is ftaternities have ever been looked at as benign service organizations.

R205, I attended a Catholic university (Jesuit) that rigorously controlled fraternity activities, since frats are basically frowned upon by the Catholic Church (at least back then they were). I was invited to attend a get acquainted session. The guys were genuinely nice but I didn't join as the amount of time you were required to put in for community service was too much for my already tight schedule.

And at Penn State, many Greek organizations and non-Greek student organizations participate in THON, a huge, annual fundraising event, the proceeds of which are donated to the Milton Hershey Medical Center. Next to the football season, this is the biggest event on campus and these kids really do bust their ass to make this thing a success, and have been doing so for over 40 years.

I think a case can be made that the vast majority of Greeks (99.99999999%) are not sadistic murderers as the usual DL hyperbole would suggest.

I dont think these 18 PSU Frat boys are sadistic murderers. They were drunk simpletons with a screw loose, and made very very bad decisions. And sometimes you have to pay the piper for bad actions.

[quote]I think a case can be made that the vast majority of Greeks (99.99999999%) are not sadistic murderers as the usual DL hyperbole would suggest.

I think you are missing the point. I'm sure none of the guys who let the kid die are 'sadistic murderers'. The point is that frat culture seems to value groupthink more than anything. That's why they go along with hazing rituals to begin with, against their better judgement. To fit in. That's why young men google 'head injury' instead of call 911. They didn't mean to kill anyone. But they did.

Fund raising for THON was one of Tim Piazza's passions. In Tim's memory, I challenge every student to become involved in this great cause in whatever way you can.

R196, I'm amazed I survived my youth as well. First off, I was a daredevil, and did some very stupid shit as kid without having one drop of booze or drugs. I broke several bones and split the side of my head open, as well as splitting my chin open twice. All before the age of 10. Once booze and drugs came in the picture, for sure it was a fucking miracle that I made it to my 30s.

I took huge risks that I should never had. I'm probably not dead because I never drove drunk or shot up drugs, but I had no problem with letting people who were way more fucked up than me drive me around.

That being said, there were several situations that I encountered while drunk and/or high, where I recognized that someone else was in trouble. I never hesitated to do the right thing. As a matter of fact, it was instinctive. And there were several times when friends saved my ass as well, and looking back, I am damn grateful that they did.

There was just too much time and too many injuries that were repeatedly ignored. How can that be justified? Had the kid just passed out on the couch and died, that would be one thing, but the kid sustained multiple serious injuries throughout the night, and even when implored to seek help repeatedly, this group of young men repeatedly refused to do so.

I don't know about you, but for me, I think this kid may have lived if he had gotten help from the gate.

I also think he had a good chance of recovering if common sense prevailed, and action had been immediately taken. He had the type of injuries that required attention ASAP.

Unfortunately the Google Head Injury Team thought they had it under control.

But. . . . . They Were Wrong. And a kid is dead.

People have gotten drunk and died for all of history, and college idiots have been acting like this forever. Nothing will come of this in the larger sense. Even if that frat gets kicked off campus, even if a few of these kids actually face legal consequences, fraternities will exist and thrive; Penn State will exist and thrive. It's a horrendous situation, but all the drama queen antics stating that fraternities should be outlawed is ridiculous.

People on DL are minimizing the heinous actions of average-looking frat boys? Say it ain't so.

They aren't ever going to fuck you, ladies.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

I wonder if any of them were queer

Kordell is all over the news, promoting himself as the lone hero who just tried to do the right thing.

You would think his attorney would advise him to shut his mouth and avoid the camera.

I wonder how much he's getting paid to put himself out there for "exclusive" interviews?

R216 Obviously his lawyer set up the media blitz -- its called "getting in front of the story."

"I'm just a scared little Negro who tried to do the right thing but was too much a scared little Negro....hero? Why thank you!"

Kordel is still complicit.

R217 It's called "Getting In Front Of The Camera"

It was reported last night that there is an unbelievable amount of video footage detailing the entire event. There were several cameras throughout the frat house.

The video footage will have to be what puts them away, no?

I'd like to elephant walk all of them.

Elephant walk -- is that a thing with frats?

Apparently, yeah. Did you read the article?

I'm not sure how often they happen, or whether they're more of a mythical/joking around thing. Someone in the comments said that they've heard a version where you walk around naked with one thumb in your mouth and the other in a dude's butt... if you break the chain you have to switch thumbs.

Some of them tweeted enthusiastically to include the elephant walk in the evenings amusements. Do you think these twerps clean their holes beforehand, or is fragrant fratboy shit-on-the-finger smell a + + +.

I love how repressed fratboys think up all these freaky initiation rites as a way to touch guys' dicks without being thought of as gay.

I think a lot of these frat guys are deeply closeted.

In 30 years, they'll be the old pervs cruising park restrooms, gym saunas and airport bathrooms, looking for any dick to suck.

Frats ARE the original Boys 2 Men Club.

Think about it . . . . .

And just imagine what went on there . . . . .

[quote] Frats ARE the original Boys 2 Men Club.

What does that mean?

Not being sarcastic, I seriously don't understand what you're trying to say.

The fraternity has been banned from the campus - forever, I hope. Wish the rest would go as well.

I know tons of gay men who were in frats when they were younger. All of them were closeted at the time (of course)

Barbara Kruger

There were plenty of UNCLOSETED or flimsily closeted gay men in frats at Cornell when I was there, and this was decades ago.

I don't think one should assume today that all frats are filled with closet cases and fag bashes. Young men today are open-minded whores down to fuck. A little experimentation isn't going to stain a straight guy, and they mostly don't give a shit about gays in their midst.

"There were plenty of UNCLOSETED or flimsily closeted gay men in frats at Cornell when I was there, and this was decades ago."

Penn State isn't Cornell.....

Didn't know any openly gay guys in fraternities while I was at Penn State, but I did know several who were "flimsily closeted." Admittedly this was a number of years ago, and things may have changed since then.

(There was an all-gay fraternity at Penn State for a while, but it seemed to come and go from year to year. Not sure of it's current status.)

[quote]Speaking of "queers", I really wonder how much gay bashing is covered up at Penn State. The police there are definitely not in the business of arresting the bully boys.

Well R165, It was "okay-ish" to be gay when I was there ... which was about a decade ago. The "gay" section of campus at University Park was located in North Halls. You were safe living there. It was mostly theater students and other art types (since they were near the theaters.) No one was hiding a damn thing about themselves but only in that section which was a bit away from everything else. The gag was that if a kid said he lived in "North" that meant, "the kid is probably gay."

However, if you moved away from North after your freshman year you'd more than likely already have a starter group of gay friends. Back then, everything was pretty compartmentalized, so if you made friends with kids in your major you were pretty much either with one group or the other.

It seems like most of the cover ups involved the football team since they were particularly "precious."

[quote](There was an all-gay fraternity at Penn State for a while, but it seemed to come and go from year to year. Not sure of it's current status.)

I'm not sure either R236. It was still there when I was there but that was in the early part of the 00s. Their "house" was a bit off campus. I wasn't out then but I knew a guy who was gay and he'd tell me about their parties.

I do remember there was a pretty big-ish gay organization that would go into class rooms and have "straight talks" with students upon a Professor's request. The funny thing was they'd come in, lock the door, and tell you to keep the group conversations you were about to have with them private. They'd talk to you about homophobia and how to handle it on campus.

I'm sure things are very different now.

R221 this has been known from the beginning. This is why I believe the jury will put them all in jail.

I do know of one former Penn State football player (who had a brief pro career) who is gay. He is out to his circle of friends but will probably remain closeted to everyone else for a long time (even though he hasn't played football in decades)

Update, Andy surprise surprise the big charges were dropped.

Have they ever released the security cam footage?

If I were the kids parents, I would have a mission for life. A good obsession makes for a good life.

Do girls kill each other at their sorority parties?

When I was in college he, the sorority girls said at their initiation, they had to strip to bra & undies and the older sisters would take a sharpie and circle places of their body where they we're "fat".