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AA is a cult.

Thank God more and more people are leaving. You are not powerless!

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 162May 4, 2019 1:40 AM

It enabled us to become financially independent!

by Anonymousreply 1May 5, 2017 8:51 PM

it certainly didn't help with your appalling misogyny.

by Anonymousreply 2May 5, 2017 8:53 PM

r1, you made the choice to stop getting loaded! AA wants you to give it all the glory. You have autonomy even though they frown on such a concept.

by Anonymousreply 3May 5, 2017 8:54 PM

AA does no such thing- it frowns on nothing or no one. It sneers at nothing, certainly does not ignore analytical thinking.

by Anonymousreply 4May 5, 2017 8:56 PM

r4, delusional cult member

by Anonymousreply 5May 5, 2017 9:05 PM

[quote]you made the choice to stop getting loaded!

This is true. The only beneficial thing that AA does is provide a babysitter. Other than that, everything else they do and say is total bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 6May 5, 2017 9:12 PM

OP, the whole AA series is a process to set up recovery. I was in Al-Anon (alcoholic family) as a nonbeliever and the steps worked for me just fine.

The anti-AA shit is very interesting. I suppose we're moving towards a "drink more and be powerful" basis, as suggested by the OP.

by Anonymousreply 7May 5, 2017 9:15 PM

The only good thing about those 12 step meetings is the fellowship. To sit in a room with other people in the same boat has a wonderful impact. The actual steps are a fucking joke. Embarrassing, dogmatic, arbitrary, insanely religious (funny how much time they devote to telling people they're not religious and they welcome all faiths and non believers. Me thinks they doth protesteth too much etc).

by Anonymousreply 8May 5, 2017 9:27 PM

This is one of those threads that pops up every six months... it will become tiresome, it will not change anyone's mind, by post #20, all will have been said but the posts will continue ad nauseum.

I've gone to Al-Anon meetings, found them helpful. My best friend sobered up 17 years ago through AA and I'm forever grateful. He knows how much better his life is as well, never expresses regret that he no longer drinks. He's never told me that "it's all due to AA that I'm sober". He's worked hard at the 12-steps and made a go of sobriety, so what's to hate?

BTW OP, I made it through 2 min. of the video. Wasn't that just edgy of the 'j" the producer? He pulled quotes from people who don't like AA, added some hip b&w graphics and a ragged pop tune (that has nothing to do with the topic) to prove his point! Yea, that changed my mind...

Staying sober is hard - it requires a lot of reflection, dropping friends you know are toxic in your life, changing your own behavior (very difficult), finding new ways to stay occupied. If you can do that, great! If it's not for you, shut up, go elsewhere and find a different way of either keeping your drinking under control or staying sober.

by Anonymousreply 9May 5, 2017 9:32 PM

A.A. has a 3% recovery rate. Alcoholism was declared a disease by the A.M.A. in 1954. Any other treatment plan for any disease with that low of a success rate would have been scrapped years ago. You can't pray away a disease.

by Anonymousreply 10May 5, 2017 9:48 PM

There is probably some wisdom in AA, but any program is dangerous if it touts itself as the only way.

Also, I don't think any objective studies have proven that AA is any more successful than just quitting on your own.

by Anonymousreply 11May 5, 2017 9:50 PM

The 3% figure is a lie. So I have to wonder, why would anyone be so bothered about this that they post a lie like this?

AA has a good saying, "take what you want and leave the rest". It also encourages people to do whatever works for them, including leaving the program and trying something else.

So, OP, you seem a little obsessed with AA. Why? It seems like you're dead set in blaming AA for not saving you, perhaps? Were you expecting an effortless miracle?

by Anonymousreply 12May 5, 2017 9:55 PM

Thank you, R9.

by Anonymousreply 13May 5, 2017 9:56 PM

Not a lie at all, just an inconvenient fact r12 but thanks for your input . Also, just so you know, all diseases have a 2-3% spontaneous remission rate. Makes that house of cards even more rickety. Try Wiki, you might learn something.

by Anonymousreply 14May 5, 2017 10:17 PM

r12 is the epitome of everything I loathe about AA members. Gaslighting, shaming and mocking !! fuck you cunt! you just want a drink and try to control others to deal with your separation anxiety .

by Anonymousreply 15May 5, 2017 10:19 PM

LOL, R14!

by Anonymousreply 16May 5, 2017 10:20 PM

Could I see the citation for the study that shows AA's recovery rate?

by Anonymousreply 17May 5, 2017 10:21 PM

Yeah, R15, other people are the problem here.

by Anonymousreply 18May 5, 2017 10:23 PM

A "citation" r17? Again Google and Wiki are your friends. 2% is the low end 5% is the high end. "We have seen few failures with those who have followed our path" or some such culty hogwash. You missed over 90% of your members failing? Even the Scientologists would giggle.

& P.S. Doctor Bob and Bill W were dropping acid while "sober". Go figure.

by Anonymousreply 19May 5, 2017 10:54 PM

Better to have friends alive and thriving. But I really have lost friends to the program. Everything is AA with them: their friends, their step-obsessed thinking -- it doesn't work if you have a free spirit and independent, questioning mind. I think most people would benefit from some of its principles, then you have to get the fuck out. The problem is: if you leave, the friends you made in AA kind of shade you -- and you don't want to be around them because they are too difficult to distinguish from pod people. I think it breeds intense co-dependency between members. Like, do or die. That's not normal.

by Anonymousreply 20May 5, 2017 10:58 PM

I remember the woman who invented her own cult, called Rational Recovery. She said you could keep drinking, but in moderation. Now she's in prison for getting drunk and killing 2 people while she was driving drunk.

So much for her.

If you want to keep drinking and blame other people for it, go ahead. It's your life, to fuck up as you please.

by Anonymousreply 21May 5, 2017 11:08 PM

" The problem is: if you leave, the friends you made in AA kind of shade you -- and you don't want to be around them because they are too difficult to distinguish from pod people. I think it breeds intense co-dependency between members. Like, do or die. That's not normal."

Not only will they ostracize you, they will hope and pray that you are back drinking or using, they will make up shit that you are. They are not your friends. If you have to go to meetings, be VERY cautious of who you let in. the slogan "you are only sick as your secrets" is so damm creepy

by Anonymousreply 22May 5, 2017 11:20 PM

Hey R13, it's r9. You're welcome.

And look I was right! I'm the 22nd poster and you people are already sniping at each other! I love the, "I won't show you my citations! Google it yourself!" That's always so helpful to something once known as 'conversation' or providing a 'persuasive argument'.

R20, perhaps you've lost friends who began attending AA meetings because of your attitude about their participation in AA? They've gotten sober, started learning to socialize in an alcohol-free zone (necessary by the way... we're talking about adults who have built their lives around alcohol and have suddenly given it up - they're at a loss as to what to with themselves.) Simply sitting down with someone else and not offering them a drink or having one at hand is new to them!

by Anonymousreply 23May 5, 2017 11:25 PM

Enough with this alcoholism is a disease nonsense!! No it's not like leukemia. Thanks. As my wise grandmother used to say....you know how you stop drinking? YOU STOP DRINKING!! Easy peasey if you're ready to hear it. Most are too weak, selfish and, frankly, like drinking too much to actually listen.

by Anonymousreply 24May 5, 2017 11:29 PM

R22 - so true. If you don't continue with the program and they don't see you in it, then you've fallen - 'you're back out there' - and they want nothing to do with you. That's cultish behavior.

Now - there are some desperate people who really need this to stay sober and it works for them. Fine. But it is creepy - I was in it for 18 months.

by Anonymousreply 25May 5, 2017 11:30 PM

I agree with R19 - use google. For example this link comes up in the number two spot in my search.

An interesting read. Points out some of the challenges in evaluating the success rates of AA. For example the very high number of people who only attend one meeting and never return. Keep in mind what the second "A" stands for. Anonymity creates challenges for tracking success rates.

My own opinion and experience has been what works for you works for you when it comes to dieting, alcoholism and religion.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 26May 5, 2017 11:33 PM

You missed the point that "citation" is a completely incorrect word in this context. Try again Dora.

by Anonymousreply 27May 5, 2017 11:36 PM

I agree with wise grandma. And people who are clinically depressed? Just STOP being depressed. I honestly don't know why this hasn't already occurred to people. I get that grandma is uncommonly wise, but it sort of seems like common sense to me. Just stop!

by Anonymousreply 28May 6, 2017 12:03 AM

yes, r28, but people who are clinically depressed are not many times court ordered to find a spiritual cure.

by Anonymousreply 29May 6, 2017 12:31 AM

But R29, what does that have to do with the "just stop" advice? That's what I was referring to.

by Anonymousreply 30May 6, 2017 12:32 AM

It took dating someone who decided to use AA to become sober to never trust anyone in AA again.

It might work to reset the spirit and mind for some people. But those who stay in it and go to meeting after meeting are typically the type that replace the addiction to alcohol with addiction to the program, or sex, or crossfit or love or...

In short, it makes people insufferable and doesn't dare help them get to a place where they take responsibility for their behavior so they can deal with the issues that make them cope with addictive measures.

See a shrink, not a bunch of other emotionally stunted, needy drunks.

by Anonymousreply 31May 6, 2017 12:57 AM

Yeah that's great r31, I guess we should generalize everyone based on some asshole we dated. I got fucked over by a blond dude so fuck them now. If it works for some people, that's all that matters. If you don't have to go, don't fucking go, it's that simple.

by Anonymousreply 32May 6, 2017 1:19 AM

OP, you're an idiot. People who can always find an excuse to get high against their own best interests are applying neither intelligence nor analytical thinking. And that's the point of AA. You assume that you're likely to be making bad choices and capable of slipping, so you don't assume you know it all. And part of the 12 steps is taking full responsibility for your actions and the grief it has caused to people in your life. That makes sense because it clears the air and gets the hidden crap out of your head. They may not be able to forgive you, but it clears the slate for you to move on.

by Anonymousreply 33May 6, 2017 1:38 AM

I don't know that I'd call it a cult. It does do some weird things to vulnerable people. I had a friend who was successful in battling the bottle, but he became forever linked to AA. He dropped all friends who did not have drinking problems or did not drink at all. He only associates with recovering alcoholics he has met through AA or active alcoholics from his former drinking days. I know of someone else who did the same thing. In both cases they "learned" from AA that only another alcoholic can "understand" an alcoholic, so having non-alcoholics in their lives is unnecessary. It's very much a "not one of us" type thing.

by Anonymousreply 34May 6, 2017 1:38 AM

[quote] R24: Enough with this alcoholism is a disease nonsense!! No it's not like leukemia

How is diabetes like leukemia? Or the flu? Or arthritis. Do you understand this, R34? Seriously.

by Anonymousreply 35May 6, 2017 1:54 AM

"Disease" is just a word. It means whatever the medical community says it means. And they call alcoholism a disease.

by Anonymousreply 36May 6, 2017 2:04 AM

AA is a cult of people who thrive on their sobriety. Sobriety is their god. Everybody else in their life is left out, including the one true God.

by Anonymousreply 37May 6, 2017 3:08 AM

People with lung cancer should just STOP with that shit. Ain't nobody got time for that.

by Anonymousreply 38May 6, 2017 3:28 AM

Yes. People who suffer from depression should just get over it and STOP being depressed! They should ignore the chemical imbalance in their body responsible for much of this. They need to walk on the sunny of the street. Like problem drinkers! Just put down that drink! Ignore the addictive properties and behaviors that make alcoholism even an "ism". AND STOP DRINKING! Like gay people who made that choice to be gay. They need to just get ahold of themselves! Stop with their own selfish choices! Turn it around! And change this! It's clear to me. It's clear to WGKE. Wise Grandmas who Know Everything.

by Anonymousreply 39May 6, 2017 4:40 AM

R39 is either drunk or is a dry drunk.

by Anonymousreply 40May 6, 2017 4:49 AM

R40. Neither. But you make them sound fun. I'll think about it. Life's too short. Live a little.

by Anonymousreply 41May 6, 2017 5:05 AM

I have no experience with AA and have never been a drinker, so for whatever my two cents is worth ... I imagine it is what you make of it. Heaven or Hell, we create it ourselves for the most part. Diving face-first into anything is usually a mistake and balance is essential to any kind of success or happiness. There. I said it.

by Anonymousreply 42May 6, 2017 5:24 AM

I haven't had a drink in...since 1983. When I started going to AA meetings, people were talking about a 7% success rate. I'm not sure what time period that number comprised. Ten years? Thirty? I don't remember. But I thought it was impressively low.

In any case, it worked for me. I went daily for a few years, then not so often after eight years. I lost two sponsors to AIDS (one who killed himself). I won my third sponsor in a popularity contest held by the mean girls who had two or three years. He dropped me for reasons I never completely understood, and took my two best friends with him.

It was never the same for me after that. I couldn't handle losing friends who were actually still alive. It seemed too cruel, and I gave up on AA. I didn't drink. I just stopped going to meetings. I fell in with a bunch of ACOAs and AlAnons. I truly related to the ACOA premise/opening, something I'd always been kind of iffy with at AA. So those people became my new set of friends. I'm still friends with a lot of them, even though none of us has been to a meeting in years.

I moved to a new city, and started to go to AA again. It's a very easy way to make friends. Not very good friends, necessarily, but it's better than a lot of people do when they move somewhere strange. I quit going to the gay groups after about a year, and became secretary of a mixed group I went to once a week. I met a couple of friends-for-life there, but both of them moved away. I gave up going to meetings for a long time, and found that people did not stay in touch with me. It doesn't bother me the way it once did. I'm kind of over AA now, but I don't hate it.

And I haven't had a drink in over 30 years.

by Anonymousreply 43May 6, 2017 5:29 AM

OP = satanic shill for treatment center$ and other $cams which hate AA for being both free and the only thing that really works.

by Anonymousreply 44May 6, 2017 8:34 AM

I'm an alky and I think alcoholism is a coping mechanism. For me it's part compulsion/habit coupled with a introverted personality and an inferiority/superiority complex. I've never been in balance.

I think it runs in families because of habits and personalities. My sister drinks because she has OCD and crippling shyness/social anxiety.

I don't think it is a biological illness.

by Anonymousreply 45May 6, 2017 9:16 AM

it's not r45 and people in AA, the way they treat newcomers with their lack of compassion etc does not believe it either.

by Anonymousreply 46May 6, 2017 6:27 PM

r44, yea with a pitiful 3% success rate.

by Anonymousreply 47May 6, 2017 6:29 PM

R47, you're spitting out statistics without evidence. Where's the evidence?

by Anonymousreply 48May 6, 2017 6:33 PM

you sit in the rooms, how many people relapse on a regular basis? the ones who have significant time seem to be so self absorbed , and so crazy they don't help the newcomers.

by Anonymousreply 49May 6, 2017 6:35 PM

It's generally agreed that more than 90% of drunks will die drunk.

Most people who come into AA do not stay.

(But we are glad we did!)

by Anonymousreply 50May 6, 2017 8:12 PM

AA gays are the absolute worst. Their thirst for validation overwhelms any room they step in. And so sanctimonious! And usually a sad, exhausting sex and/or tattoo addiction as an amuse-bouche.

by Anonymousreply 51May 6, 2017 9:05 PM

Erna, You are a miserable cunt.

by Anonymousreply 52May 6, 2017 9:42 PM

I was involved in AA for a while after I went to rehab for a benzo addiction. I was advised to go to AA meetings over NA because there is supposedly much better sobriety in AA but it seemed the AA members were a little snarky and judgmental of NA members .

Anyhow my experience wasn't great. At first I'll admit it was a rush, feeling like I had all these new friends and people who "got" me but it started to lose its sparkle pretty quickly . My sponsor was kind of harsh and made me feel like I was a kid again and he was the parent . The meetings started to seem depressing, the same people telling the same sad stories over and over. I witnessed a good amount of backstabbing too.

But ultimately for me I decided that my pill addiction wasn't going to be the thing that defined me for the rest of my life. At meetings I heard people talking about the bad things they had done over 20 years ago and hashing it out like it all happened last week. It seemed to me you weren't able to ever forget the past and that you were always first and foremost a addict.

Not for me. There's a lot more to me than that. I have been clean for over a year and a half and haven't been to a meeting in over a year and don't see myself going back . I have a therapist and that's enough for me.

I'm sure AA and NA are great for lots of people and that's awesome but I just didn't like the way it felt .

by Anonymousreply 53May 6, 2017 9:51 PM

"But ultimately for me I decided that my pill addiction wasn't going to be the thing that defined me for the rest of my life. At meetings I heard people talking about the bad things they had done over 20 years ago and hashing it out like it all happened last week. It seemed to me you weren't able to ever forget the past and that you were always first and foremost a addict."

first of all, I want to give you major props for leaving the toxic program and maintaining your sobriety with no BS. i AGREE totally on AA peeps use their addiction as an identity and they never let go of their war stories. It's unhealthy and not good mental health.

by Anonymousreply 54May 6, 2017 10:00 PM

My understanding from the literature is that a sponsor should be someone who introduces you to other AA members, and to meetings, and gives you an overview of the program.

Instead, as I've seen it in practice, they get entangled with the newcomer's life in a queer way. When a sponsor tells someone to read the first five chapters of the Big Book five times, that's just odd, I wouldn't take that suggestion, it's not helpful.

by Anonymousreply 55May 6, 2017 10:05 PM

I had a friend who went to AA. I didn't think she was an alcoholic but what did I know? She then joined NA because she was told it was a better social life. She smoked the odd bit of weed but didn't do any other drugs.

Her birthday came around and I was invited to the party. I was the only person who wasn't a member of AA or NA and I think I got an invite because I never drank alcohol. It was an evening spent listening to the whole group go on and on about how easy it was to have a great time without alcohol and drugs. They never shut up about it. I was bored to tears.

I lost touch with her after that. Haven't seen her in years.

by Anonymousreply 56May 7, 2017 5:20 AM

Yes! r53, the war stories. Who can outdo each other in the most pitiful way. It's a circle-jerk of 'poor me' personality types, who are allowed to run rampant. In real life they would be shut down immediately.

What an energy suck.

by Anonymousreply 57May 7, 2017 7:35 AM

No not a cult. I know people in AA. It worked for them. Don't get hysterical OP.

by Anonymousreply 58May 7, 2017 9:07 AM

Most fish don't belong in AA because they are usually not drunks, they are looking to meet men or are overeaters. They waste precious time and space.

Most homosexuals also don't belong in AA because they mostly talk about drugs and other bullshit, wasting precious time and space.

by Anonymousreply 59May 7, 2017 9:09 AM

[quote]&P.S. Doctor Bob and Bill W were dropping acid while "sober". Go figure.

Dr. Bob never dropped acid.

Bill Wilson did, but he was always adamant that there was no correlation between drug abuse and alcohol and that drugs should not be discussed in AA. He considered drugs to be one of those outside issues about which AA had no opinion. Wilson was both short-sighted and so arrogant he believed only he had all the answers.

I got sober in AA, but I always laughed about it being a cult. I don't care if it was a cult because it saved my life. If I was brainwashed, it's obvious my brain needed to be washed. I haven't been part of AA or gone to meetings in many years, but AA members gave me the tools to live a sober life and I'll always be grateful to them.

The problem with stats when it comes to AA is that there are so many people like me. I was in and out of AA for more than 9 years before I finally got permanently sobriety. All of those relapses would count statistically against AA. Even though I've had a successful long-term recovery the kind of morons who rely on stats would consider my overall numbers to be negative.

by Anonymousreply 60May 7, 2017 9:43 AM

R45 I drank like a fish for n3arly 30 years for the same reasons you stated. I went to inpatient recovery twice and I briefly tried AA.

At age 53 I just stopped drinking. No big deal, I just stopped because I wanted to and I was not feeling well after tying one on.

That was 8 years ago and I don't ever crave or even think about alcohol. Maybe something similar will happen in your life.

by Anonymousreply 61May 7, 2017 9:51 AM

R61, GREAT share, thank you!!!

by Anonymousreply 62May 7, 2017 5:41 PM

I got sober in AA more than 33 years ago and while I've had my problems with some of the people over the years and only go to a few meetings a year now, I would absolutely recommend it to someone who wanted to stop drinking -- it's free, doesn't require you to believe anything, you can leave anytime you want, and there are plenty of different groups to choose from. I was an agnostic who found others not into the god thing and oldtimers who had great, full lives and weren't step nazis. Getting sober was tough but I also had a lot of fun.

Also, some posters here need to read up on what constitutes a cult.

by Anonymousreply 63May 7, 2017 5:58 PM

I believe in the case of AA, alcohol would be the cult, and AA the rescue out of it.

by Anonymousreply 64May 7, 2017 6:14 PM

My impression about Gay AA groups is that atheists are in the majority. Some are even antagonistic to religion. The Spirituality referred to in the program isn't something that should dissuade anyone from attending.

by Anonymousreply 65May 8, 2017 1:18 AM

R62, of course will power is part of it.

by Anonymousreply 66May 8, 2017 1:19 AM

r65 is right, the steps even say "came to believe" the point being that it's not something you need to do right away but something you strive to do each day. AA has assholes like anywhere else, it's what you make of it.

by Anonymousreply 67May 8, 2017 1:27 AM

I have been sober for 30 years. My two cents....pretty much everything here has been covered. as an Athiest, and someone who for the most part, doesn't trust most people,...I went to AA and NA meetings at times, and for ME it wasn't worth it PAST THE POINT of getting sober.

At the beginning I was ASTOUNDED to see and hear " normal" people who told their stories, and I realized in some cases they were sicker than me. AND they were " normal" now. Being able to actually see someone "make it" was jaw droppingly stunning. I thought it was IMPOSSIBLE to quit. Seeing that ANYONE had, gave me some hope.

When you have lost all hope, all is lost, and that I could go to a single designated place, to maybe meet ONE person, who was genuine, caring, understanding, etc, was worth it to me.

Remember a lot of these folks, myself included, are pretty sick bastards, SO getting stopped, even for a day, beats the alternatives. Take out of it what you can, I just chose to ignore the religious stuff, the cult stuff, the human foibles stuff, and look for that ONE person who gave a damn about others.

After that I stopped going, AND, I am living a full life. I strongly recommend just going a few times, as if you choose to hang out with the same said people you were getting high or drinking with, the chances that you will make any change is slim to none.

by Anonymousreply 68May 8, 2017 1:44 AM

I can see why poor old bespectacled Michael would be an alco.

by Anonymousreply 69May 8, 2017 2:21 AM

I understand the cult criticisms, but hasn't it genuinely helped a lot of people without those people becoming very cultish? It's sort of like many everyday churches - a lot of people take it to cult like levels, yet others don't.

by Anonymousreply 70May 8, 2017 2:38 AM

AA is no longer the only way.

by Anonymousreply 71May 13, 2017 7:44 PM

"Better to have friends alive and thriving. But I really have lost friends to the program. Everything is AA with them: their friends, their step-obsessed thinking -" I think you mean SELF OBSESSED THINKING .

by Anonymousreply 72June 3, 2018 10:41 PM

When I walked into AA I was given nothing to promote healthy thought.... Quite the opposite actually... I felt degraded, I was told that I was diseased and powerless... when I said I was uncomfortable divining a higher power on the spot, they tell me to just choose anything more powerful than myself..

I tell them, “a car is more powerful than I am but I’m not going to make it my god and pray to it!”

They tell me I’m being stubborn and that I’m being a “Tough guy”. I asked if there was any other way to do the steps and I was told no... but to just keep coming back and eventually I’ll get it?

These people are obsessed with miniature miracles! Every thing is a milestone, every moment quantified and measured by the length of time between inebriated states..... If I can’t match their level of enthusiasm about the program. I’m looked at suspiciously then approached by a fanatical 12 stepper who tells me I’ll die if I don’t surrender my will.

I think I’ll just take a yoga class.

by Anonymousreply 73March 15, 2019 8:44 PM

I know someone in the program who has to call her abusive sponsor everyday at 8AM no exceptions. She looks at her crazy ass sponsor as her higher power. She has become a mindless bore

by Anonymousreply 74March 16, 2019 3:38 PM

I am hanging in there with my home group(mostly straight and a little churchy) but my attendance is dropping off . But I don't want to get so complacent that I don't go at all. Soon will be moving to Palms Springs and will check out groups there to see if there is a better fit

by Anonymousreply 75March 16, 2019 3:45 PM

r3 that is not true. AA is there for support and they encourage people to seek help in getting sober if they can afford it. At least back in the stone age when I was in my 20's and 30's that's what is was all about. Back then no one even questioned what its role is. Now all of a sudden, with the drug companies trying to develop pills to help kick addiction we are seeing this attack on AA.

by Anonymousreply 76March 16, 2019 3:49 PM

There is a more successful treatment program in Europe. It does not preach abstinence but teaches moderation. It treats the reason people drink, take drugs in excess.

by Anonymousreply 77March 16, 2019 3:56 PM

R77 Moderation is NOT ever an option f for me. and unappealing actually. I like being alcohol free. The moment alcohol hits my lips , the phenomenon of craving sets in and I am off to the races!

by Anonymousreply 78March 16, 2019 3:58 PM

R78, if I had a $ for every time I heard that exact quote from AA members, I could fly to Africa for a safari. You are a parrot who does not formulate your own thoughts.

by Anonymousreply 79March 16, 2019 4:02 PM

R79 no, just been thru HELL with my 25 yrs of drinking with many attempts to moderate

by Anonymousreply 80March 16, 2019 4:05 PM

r78 then no one ever addressed the reason why. If you are self medicating for any reason, alcohol, drugs, whatever - you are trying numb some form of pain. If you never address that pain you are always tempted to relapse. AA teaches you to fear losing control. To give up to God and let him control your life.

by Anonymousreply 81March 16, 2019 4:07 PM

You drank to kill emotional pain. AA does not get down to why people drink in excess . They will blame your “ sick head” “stinking thinking “. It’s always YOUR fault. No empathy

by Anonymousreply 82March 16, 2019 4:08 PM

R81, true! And AA specifically says in meetings “ we don’t care why you drank or how much”. They don’t want you healed. It’s a fear based cult

by Anonymousreply 83March 16, 2019 4:09 PM

I have a friend who has gone to an AA meeting daily for years. He doesn't drink, but he takes massive amounts of pain meds and smokes pot. How does that fit in? I drank a bottle a day for 20 yrs. It became too expensive and unhealthy so I quit. Cold turkey. No problem. Did I do something wrong?

by Anonymousreply 84March 16, 2019 4:17 PM

Lots of pot smokers and non abstinent people in AA. They are not honest

by Anonymousreply 85March 16, 2019 4:19 PM

Twelve-step is what we have instead of effective evidence-based treatment for addiction because God forbid we spend any money on SCIENCE.

by Anonymousreply 86March 16, 2019 4:28 PM

AA is archaic

by Anonymousreply 87March 16, 2019 4:40 PM

Don't be surprised, R86.

Influencers win.

by Anonymousreply 88March 16, 2019 4:51 PM

It’s not AA, the program, but AA, the sober lunatics who run the show. Their dysfunctional behaviors are in overdrive without the sauce.

by Anonymousreply 89March 16, 2019 5:00 PM

Look, it's a predators paradise no matter how you look at it. Went in just a few years a/college bc my fucked up buddy recruited me. I gave it a shot & it worked. Didn't bother with a sponsor. Ever. Probably intimidated most & the predators had no chance in hell. Didn't go in on the balls of my ass. Weekend warrior beer bingeroos. Had to find a way to eradicate the beer bc if someone triggered me with aggression I could justify maiming them in that state. Turn into a wild animal. "The Creature" was my Hyde moniker. One time was visiting my buddy in the dorms a/graduating. Was a party at another building that night. Ran out of beer, too drunk to walk to the dorm so I drank from the punch bowl. Contained grain alcohol. Drunk guy from Spain threw his drink on me (w/o any prior interaction) & I nearly killed him. His fellow visiting students went back home w/o him 3 weeks earlier. Four guys to pull me off of him. Accidentally slashing my buddy's face in the melee. We NOW know it's an Amerindian reaction.

Just go to a psychiatric or counselor NP & get the script for Camperal. You'll be too busy building a shed or hangout cabin out back to visit meetings any more than once a week. Just stay hydrated & calcium supplements. It's Xsy/Methy in it's therapeutic approach & expense on bones/gums. Fine original German export. As long as you're not physically addicted, no detox needed. If never fell in love w/coke your chemistry especially will respond well & you'll be finished w/alcohol within the week. Cakewalk 🍰

by Anonymousreply 90March 16, 2019 7:48 PM

R84, go get your DNA tested for indigenous markers. Their liver enzymes make it almost impossible to become physically addicted which is why alcohol was their downfall. If you drank a bottle a day w/out suffering major physical withdrawals to be able to cold turkey, something's going on there, Chief.

It wasn't something you did wrong. Not like you did something right either. Probably physically immune. Maybe dairy gives you a problem but not enough that you'll make the connection to innate intolerance. Get back to us. Wanna know what you think of this. Share. Thank you.

by Anonymousreply 91March 16, 2019 8:05 PM

Just smoke copious amounts of pot.

by Anonymousreply 92March 16, 2019 8:06 PM

R4 is right. The fact is, for all the reverence OP's link makes to intelligence and analytical thinking, they didn't help the smartest person avoid drugs, alcohol, gambling or other addictions.

by Anonymousreply 93March 16, 2019 8:13 PM

So if AA is not for you it's not for you. No biggie; find another way to abstain. People have been trying for hundreds of years to beat addictions to alcohol and drugs and as of yet, there hasn't been a sure fire way to cure them. AA and its offshoots for other addictions have helped millions of people stop using and get their lives back together. Does it work for everyone? No, it doesn't but it seems to be the most successful method of helping addicts quit. I am addicted to several things and the only way I was ever able to stop using was through 12 step programs. I've relapsed and tried to stop on my own and it didn't work. AA is like anything else -- you get out what you put in. Also, it's not psychoanalysis, it can try to help you figure out why you use but it is extremely limited with respect to self-analysis. It's about arresting addiction, not fixing people -- but it gives one a good start.

It works for some and for others it doesn't. I feel very lucky that I'm in the former group.

by Anonymousreply 94March 16, 2019 8:27 PM

We owe everything we have today to AA and Gold's Gym!

by Anonymousreply 95March 16, 2019 8:30 PM

r94 abstinence is not the answer. Is there a cutters anonymous where cutters go to use prayer and sponsors to stop cutting? No they recognize the behavior as part of a larger underlying psychological issue. Get to the root of the problem Treat the problem not the symptoms. Drinking, Drug use, is a symptom of a bigger problem. Addiction is a psychological/physiological result of your method of choice to do that. Heroin? Hell yes it is addictive but what drove you to use? Fix that and it's easier to get someone off heroin.

by Anonymousreply 96March 16, 2019 8:33 PM

My boyfriend is in NA. How do I get him out of that without risking a relapse?

by Anonymousreply 97March 16, 2019 8:34 PM

get him into therapy.

by Anonymousreply 98March 16, 2019 8:38 PM

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 99March 16, 2019 8:43 PM

r94, enough with the shaming . And you know darn well AA looks down on therapy, under the guise "it confuses the message" Like people are so retarded they can't utilize both.

by Anonymousreply 100March 16, 2019 9:00 PM

"My boyfriend is in NA. How do I get him out of that without risking a relapse?"

NA is dangerous!!! They glorify drugs and love their war stories. NA makes AA look like hanging out with the Dalia Lama . NA is based in prison and thug culture. It's also biker land. Not much recovery

by Anonymousreply 101March 16, 2019 9:10 PM

"Staying sober is hard - it requires a lot of reflection, dropping friends you know are toxic in your life, changing your own behavior (very difficult), finding new ways to stay occupied. If you can do that, great! If it's not for you, shut up, go elsewhere and find a different way of either keeping your drinking under control or staying sober."

Sounds so spiritual ,happy, joyful and FREE. I didn't get sober to be miserable you judgmental cult member!

by Anonymousreply 102March 16, 2019 9:34 PM

R100, that's nonsense. There is no prohibition against therapy. The whole basis of AA is support so the addict is not using. If you are using, therapy isn't a lot of help anyway, because you are too fucked up to process the information.

by Anonymousreply 103March 16, 2019 10:02 PM

r103, your post sounds so judgmental . Check out Scientology .

by Anonymousreply 104March 16, 2019 10:15 PM

", therapy isn't a lot of help anyway, because you are too fucked up to process the information."

I bet you frown on anti depressants and other "easier softer ways" too.. You know who else hates therapy? Scientologists and other cults.

by Anonymousreply 105March 16, 2019 10:16 PM

AA pushes minimal emotional expression. Otherwise, if you are angry, or very happy you are in relapse mode or a dry drunk.... They tell newcomers that you feeling good and healthy is the "honeymoon period" They thrive on misery.

by Anonymousreply 106March 16, 2019 10:26 PM

[quote]Staying sober is hard - it requires a lot of reflection, dropping friends you know are toxic in your life

This sometimes includes other AA members...never have I seen a bunch of toxic assholes massed together in one place.

by Anonymousreply 107March 16, 2019 10:28 PM

They’re all bitter and angry that they never learned to drink responsibly.

by Anonymousreply 108March 16, 2019 10:30 PM

I've been in AA and not drinking for over 32 years. I'm beyond the dogmatic stage. It worked for me. I see it as a decent way to live if I don't take it too literally. I still go to about a meeting a week which has good upbeat speakers and lots of cute younger men. I no longer sponsor anyone but my closest friends remain those in 12 step recovery.

by Anonymousreply 109March 17, 2019 2:03 AM

A good portion of my emotionally blank followers and weak-minded eager youthful panhandler surrogates might also have done well in AA.

I got to them first.

by Anonymousreply 110March 17, 2019 2:09 AM

Is there a better way? It never helped Dexter.

by Anonymousreply 111March 17, 2019 2:39 AM

[quote] R24: Enough with this alcoholism is a disease nonsense!!

Not nonsense.

Firstly, the word “disease” is just a word. The medical community uses the word because it is convenient to group similar things together and refer to them collectively with a single word.

Among the things that are defined as diseases are cancer, irritable bowel syndrome; smallpox; bacterial pneumonia; hay fever; arthritis; gout, an infected tooth, and a slew of mental health problems. These things are as different from each other as alcoholism is from them. But it does share some commonality with other diseases:

It is progressive. You get worse over time if you keep drinking.

It destroys your health, including liver, pancreas, skin, and heart.

It’s advance can be arrested with “treatment”, such as AA which has helped millions of people.

People recovering from it can relapse, just like diabetics can “relapse” by eating poorly, or stopping exercise.

I an understand that it may seem odd at first to accept, but “acceptance is the answer to all your problems”.

by Anonymousreply 112March 17, 2019 2:56 AM

Therapy and AA collide. AA only believes you can never drink again. Therapy can resolve the underlying issue so you can drink if you want to. You can control your drinking if you are not covering the pain.

by Anonymousreply 113March 17, 2019 3:05 AM

Cults usually have a charismatic leader. The leader usually takes his followers money, and sleeps with anyone in his cult as he chooses. People are discouraged from leaving the cult, or are even forced not to leave. The leader often exercises total control over the lives of his followers. Followers are encouraged to separate themselves from their families.

AA has none of these things. It is not a cult. You may not like AA, and there are plenty of reasons not to, but you should complain about it with some kind of accuracy.

by Anonymousreply 114March 17, 2019 3:08 AM

R113, one of basic tenets of AA goes something like this: °if you think you can stop drinking or control your drinking so that you and your family and employer are no longer miserable because of your drinking, you are welcome to try those other methods.°

AA does not claim to be the only way to get sober, but it just happens to be free, and has been effective for millions.

If therapy and AA are colliding for you, you probably have an incompetent therapist?

by Anonymousreply 115March 17, 2019 3:18 AM

[quote] R79: [R78], if I had a $ for every time I heard that exact quote from AA members, I could fly to Africa for a safari. You are a parrot who does not formulate your own thoughts

Yes, R78, do please make an effort to express yourself with more originality and elan. We don’t want to bore R79. He’s here to be entertained and you’re just not helping.

/s

by Anonymousreply 116March 17, 2019 3:30 AM

First of all I assume one or two people are writing all the posts. The one sided piling on and lies dont hold up.

I’ve been sober 21 years and go to meetings regularly and I can tell you every new comer is treated with nothing but kindness and compassion. The same with people who relapse. There is no judgment and if there it’s a personality issue not a program issue.

At the heart of the program is “take what you need and lease the rest”

I realize it’s like talking to Trump supporters. I will never change your mind. And that’s fine. But at least get the facts right.

by Anonymousreply 117March 17, 2019 3:29 AM

[quote] R100: [R94], enough with the shaming . And you know darn well AA looks down on therapy, under the guise "it confuses the message" Like people are so retarded they can't utilize both

I’m not R94, but I detest dishonesty, so I thought I would comment.

AA and therapy actually compliment each other. I’ve never heard of someone in AA discouraging others from getting therapy.

by Anonymousreply 118March 17, 2019 3:38 AM

[quote] R104: [R103], your post sounds so judgmental

I think R103 got it exactly right.

by Anonymousreply 119March 17, 2019 3:40 AM

R118 agree. Absurd lie.

by Anonymousreply 120March 17, 2019 3:42 AM

There is this one fellow on this board who opens a new “Anti-AA” thread about every 3-6 months.

One time, he claimed to have gone to hundreds of meetings in South Florida over 3 decades, but was not able to stay sober, until he left AA. Another time, the story was similar, but it happened in So. California. And there were other threads. He frequently switches his IP, somehow, and posts to lend support to his earlier posts.

He’ll play the victim as much as possible. He’ll engage in “gaslighting, shaming, and mocking”, and when you challenge his falsehoods, he’ll accuse you of “gaslighting, shaming and mocking”.

I think the author of this thread is that guy.

by Anonymousreply 121March 17, 2019 3:58 AM

Here’s what I think happened with this guy, OP.

He started going to meetings, but wasn’t able to get sober. He wasn’t getting the attention he craved, and thought that the others in his meetings should somehow be faulted for his own inability to stop drinking. He argued with the structure of the meetings and steps, and wanted to do it his way, not the way the program is practiced. The others in his meetings got sick of him hijacking their meetings, seemingly not even trying to get sober, and his constant bickering. Being humans with limited patience, they distanced themselves from him.

So, this is OP’s revenge - to discourage others in need, who he’s never met, from getting that help that they need.

by Anonymousreply 122March 17, 2019 4:10 AM

Take what you need and leave the rest—that was the key for me. And I was always skeptical of those who mouthed the platitudes and said all the right things in front of the group, just like in real life.

by Anonymousreply 123March 17, 2019 4:43 AM

AA meetings are fine, for the most part, and as posted near the top of the thread, the shared experience is helpful. AA think they stumbled on the answer with the 12 Steps, but I think actually it’s the meetings that are the secret, and as for Sponsors... I would prefer that they were not part of the program at all. I had one for a few weeks who didn’t discourage therapy but did actively discourage my prescribed anti-depressants, told me to show up to meetings they then themselves missed and then called me a liar, so I was like screw that.

The power that sponsors have is inherently problematic, and for me goes against what AA is about, which for me is a group of people trying to work stuff out together and the overall collegiate atmosphere of the group etc. It’s not about one person’s interpretation of how to do things and sponsors for me are a big reason why AA doesn’t work for some people. I have no desire to be told how to work my life out by someone who hasn’t faced what I have personally or doesn’t have anywhere near as I hard a job as I do, etc etc. I’ve heard of sponsors holding up people’s progression from one step to the next for whatever reason and don’t consider that’s in line with the original AA, where people were going through all the steps in a matter of days or weeks, not years.

The religious thing is weird and difficult however much they try and say “just take what helps you and leave the rest!” They say you should have a higher power in whatever terms that you understand — but your higher power can’t be another person. So you can’t get sober for your husband or wife or kids or best friends, but you can for a Sky Fairy you maybe don’t really believe in. I think what they’re trying to get at, in fairness, is spiritual belief is quite a good way of lying to ourselves that life isn’t entirely pointless and that whilst not universally true, those who engage in god-bothering behaviour often have their lives more together than the average addict does. But it’s a pretty fake way of achieving the result they want and of course it turns people off. A religion that can’t even sell you the one and only exclusive for and make you feel special, basically.

I’ve been in an AA meeting where a guy was like sharing by completely doing down one of his sponsees who just couldn’t get his head around the spiritual thing and how pathetic this sponsor found this to be and so he “fired” him from being a sponsee. How helpful, “take what makes sense” etc that is, and so on.

by Anonymousreply 124March 17, 2019 4:48 AM

*can’t even sell you the one and only exclusive GOD.

by Anonymousreply 125March 17, 2019 4:48 AM

The strong sponsor thing serms to have become more dominant in the last 20 years. Definitely shit. If you are a 55 year old man, sober 30 years and dependent on another AA member then you are not healthy. AA and therapy conflict because you are discouraged in AA from looking at the causes of your so-called character defects, which can be co-morbidities. So today people take endless 5th steps with a sponsor instead, which is useless. I speak from witnessing this shit in the rooms by the more dogmatic members.

by Anonymousreply 126March 17, 2019 7:53 AM

I would say sadly AA is cult-like in many places and becoming more so.(Atlantic Group,.Pacific Group). I think the cult within AA called Back to Basics is especially dangerous and takes over local AA groups. Loosey goosey AA is on the run. Not good in the long run for AA survival if the cult-like versions win, especially if there are alternatives to AA.

by Anonymousreply 127March 17, 2019 7:59 AM

I only went to A.A. for a couple of months but usually found the meetings helpful and after my first one was feeling really energised and like there was hope to get sober. I only had a sponsor for a couple of weeks but felt incredibly discouraged by the end of those couple of weeks and quite frankly wanted a drink (I know, I know, I can’t blame anyone else for my desire to drink). Purely anecdotal but in my opinion and experience the current sponsorship model doesn’t work, and it also encourages a cult of personality within certain A.A. groups (there was some weird stuff going on at the home group where my sponsor was too). It will only push A.A. success rates further down until they get back to a collegiate approach.

by Anonymousreply 128March 17, 2019 3:28 PM

R126, I agree that the way “sponsorship” can be implemented is over the top. I believe it really should be about introducing the new person to other members. Suggesting particular meetings in which they might fit in. Describing the program. But a grown man or woman shouldn’t be treated like a child, and that’s how sponsorship is implemented in some cases.

I was raised Catholic most natural thing in the world for me was to do a fifth step with a priest. Not with a sponsor. My first sponsor just assumed I would do it with him, and I had to drop him because he was too pushy about it.

However, AA and therapy perfectly complement each other. AA does not “discouraged (anyone from) looking at the causes of your so-called character defects”. I don’t know where you got that from. I would say that AA most certainly does encourage you to do so. A smart person does keep a zone of privacy around themselves in meetings. You shouldn’t blert-out every personal thought that occurs to you. Save that for therapy.

R127, there are thousands of daily meetings and millions of people in AA. Don’t judge it based on a couple of notorious meetings that are not representative of the whole. It’s like judging Gay people based on Liberace and Paul Lynde.

by Anonymousreply 129March 17, 2019 3:35 PM

Oh and I would say R108/R125 that you’re quite right. Sponsorship should not be a lifelong commitment. Essentially it taps into perpetuating the endless need for AA. J am glad A.A. was there for me when I was experiencing a crisis and I met some genuinely decent and kind people, but I don’t want to be going to meetings every day twenty years from now. Sure, I don’t want to be a trunk twenty years from now either. I don’t consider myself powerless, which is another “incorrect” view. I consider myself to have a problem that it is down to me to fix with support. The meetings prioritise the shared experience, real life stories, people getting together to talk about how they turned things around or what they want to change. AA scripture says you can’t get yourself sober, you’ve got to think of a higher power and ask them. Of course, that doesn’t make any rational sense. So I’m rambling but like I say, AA stumbled upon the perfect answer which was alcoholics working together to share experiences and tips and taking care of each other and trying to turn life around fairly quickly, not a lifetime of dependency on some notional concept of God, other people or even the meetings. Once you encourage people to think they cannot fix it on their own then results are going to vary. I’m powerless but my sponsor has power over my life... hmm

by Anonymousreply 130March 17, 2019 3:37 PM

R109/R126 not R108/R125!

by Anonymousreply 131March 17, 2019 3:37 PM

R129 agreed re sponsorship, that’s exactly how it should work. Not calling in every day at a particular time to some other adult who may or may not have their sh*t together re anything other than drinking and wants you to report in re your success or failure etc. It should be a guide / person to run things past and as you say as an introduction to other members and to the meetings and for any questions you might have that the sponsor feels they are able to answer. Someone offered to be my sponsor and then treated the whole thing very aggressively and in addition to what I said above, tried to stop me going on vacation because I wouldn’t be at a particular meeting they went to. I explained I was going to New York where there were lots of meetings and I’d be able to pick up another one every day, but they told me this “was not good” and they were have to explain my absence to the secretary of the meeting. As you say, treating sponsees like children (I wondered if a note from my mom would help).

by Anonymousreply 132March 17, 2019 3:41 PM

Thanks to the internet and other options for recovery, AA/NA are losing members by a significant amount. It’s not a rational program. You are always a mentally diseased person regardless of how long you abstain from drink or drugs . A cancer survivor does not identify as a cancer sufferer years after beating cancer. AA is a monolithic cult

by Anonymousreply 133March 17, 2019 4:47 PM

When I say AA discourages you from looking at co-morbidities I mean this: It conflates serious psychological problems with superficial "character defects" and grounds the causes of all of them in a quasi-religious notion of "selfishness, self-centeredness, and self-seeking". So a psychopath and someone suffering from the effects of an abusive childhood, and a person who is late alot are given the same diagnosis and suggested cure. This is stupid and leaves people uncured. The uncured psychopath in the rooms, having done the steps and gotten superficially better, and learned the jargon of AA is a. dangerous person, even a spiritually abusive sponsor. The second is likely to be taken advantage of and when abused is told to "look at his part" in the abuse. This is because one size explanations fit all in AA and without real therapy members are left essentially uncured unless they came in basically psychologically healthy with the exception of a drinking problem. Not always, but often enough, members are discouraged from seeking outside health. More often, especially if they know the jargon, they are treated as healthy (they may believe it ) and allowed to suffer or abuse others.

by Anonymousreply 134March 17, 2019 5:20 PM

^ seeking outside help

by Anonymousreply 135March 17, 2019 5:22 PM

To finish up 30 some years ago in my life AA made it possible for me stop being a daily drunk. I could not stop on my own and tried. It was probably just some effect of the meetings. Now I go a couple times a month to socialize and hear an uplifting story. I say almost nothing. I sometimes give newcomers helpful advice on the level of "It is probably not a good idea to hang out with people smoking pot in your first 30 days." I try to be friendly and encouraging to newcomers and don't tell them that I don't accept half of the shit suggestionsI hear in the rooms.

by Anonymousreply 136March 17, 2019 5:39 PM

r134, THANK YOU! You are right on the $$ It's a shallow, destructive and a program where bullies flourish.

by Anonymousreply 137March 17, 2019 7:51 PM

r136, You should tell them. The newcomer is not the most important person in the room(least important) The newcomer is the most vulnerable person in the room . There are sexual predators lurking and of course the controlling assholes.

by Anonymousreply 138March 17, 2019 7:53 PM

[quote] R126: AA and therapy conflict because you are discouraged in AA from looking at the causes of your so-called character defects, which can be co-morbidities. So today people take endless 5th steps with a sponsor instead, which is useless. I speak from witnessing this shit in the rooms by the more dogmatic members.

AA doesn’t discourage anyone from “looking at the causes of your so-called character defects”. I don’t know where you got that from. However, it’s also not a therapy group, and shouldn’t be thought of as one. As an organization, the sole purpose of AA is:

[quote] Bill W: “Sobriety, freedom from alcohol, through the teaching and practice of the Twelve Steps is the sole purpose of an AA group.”

Individual experiences with AA are naturally going to vary.

by Anonymousreply 139March 17, 2019 10:08 PM

[quote] R133: Thanks to the internet and other options for recovery, AA/NA are losing members by a significant amount. It’s not a rational program. You are always a mentally diseased person regardless of how long you abstain from drink or drugs . A cancer survivor does not identify as a cancer sufferer years after beating cancer. AA is a monolithic cult

What’s your source for the assertion that AA/NA are losing members? I am curious.

LAA

by Anonymousreply 140March 17, 2019 10:20 PM

r139, why the life time mandatory commitment? Answer honestly

by Anonymousreply 141March 17, 2019 10:39 PM

Most studies indicate AA's membership has flatlined. This is basically accepted. I can't remember if the membership is also aging. if so, the two stats don't bode well. I wouldn't mind a smaller AA as long as it reverses the trends toward more cult-like behavior that has been spreading thru it the last 20 years.

by Anonymousreply 142March 17, 2019 11:11 PM

I go to AA and their are issues with it. For me like another poster mentioned, the fellowship helped me and I made friends that I could really lean on. Talking about my issues also have me release in the rooms. Lots of people can use AA in different ways. Some don’t even do the steps and are successful in recovery. I have only been in it 6 months and I have met loads of people that have been sober for years and years. I have met a few that have relapsed but they also come back. Most alcoholics don’t die of abuse if they have been in AA- certainly not the people I have met and the stories they have told me.

by Anonymousreply 143March 17, 2019 11:43 PM

Also their are loads of young people in my AA. The reason it’s older is that a lot of people go through years of addiction before the come to a point where it doesn’t work but it gets worse as you get older.so that’s why a lot of people are older in recovery. It’s part of the illness.

by Anonymousreply 144March 17, 2019 11:50 PM

Good points. R143.

by Anonymousreply 145March 17, 2019 11:50 PM

R105, are you in the habit of cutting off quotes in the middle so they are completely misunderstood? My point is that therapy is not effective if someone is actively using. AA and therapy can go together and sometimes do, because both advocate avoiding addictive behavior. AA members are not in the habit of preaching or prescribing to others beyond encouraging them to stay clean, attend meetings and work the program.

by Anonymousreply 146March 17, 2019 11:55 PM

R111 😂!!!

by Anonymousreply 147March 18, 2019 2:06 AM

AA is disgusting

by Anonymousreply 148March 18, 2019 2:11 AM

Smart Recovery

by Anonymousreply 149March 19, 2019 4:59 PM

R148, what did AA ever do for or to you?

by Anonymousreply 150March 20, 2019 12:48 AM

Sorry folks but I was savagely raped at an AA meeting so I’ll never go back. I had just gotten through a rough divorce and an arrest in Florida when I went to a meeting and a bunch of guys held me down on the table and violated me with one of the sugar canisters form the coffee area. Then they stuffed some of their stale old cookies up my cunt and ate them out. I just wanted to move upstate to try to forget about it.

by Anonymousreply 151March 20, 2019 1:06 AM

AA has been invaded by stinkfish and homosexuals. However, those avoid these undesirables and adhere to the steps can and do recover.

by Anonymousreply 152March 20, 2019 1:11 AM

Sobriety is overrated- Bill Maher

by Anonymousreply 153March 20, 2019 5:14 PM

AA works in certain demographics, but is hard for others. The life-changes required to do the steps are not practical for everyone. They may say you only have to take a humble job for six months or a year, but only the very poor or very wealthy can actually do that.

by Anonymousreply 154April 22, 2019 4:06 AM

After decades of being banished, Miss Boozette returned into our life and begged for mercy. She was so sweet we realized we had been rash.

Last night Miss Boozette and we went to a sex club but it did not go terribly well. The prissy little number at the door who was too stupid to speak any English except the words "too old" was very rude to us. Miss Boozette gave that silly sissy a piece of her mind and we were asked to leave.

AA is not a cult. It can be very helpful. But we realize now that it can destroy friendships. Like ours with dear card Miss Boozette, who sticks up for a lady when she has been insulted by stupid children.

by Anonymousreply 155April 22, 2019 4:18 AM

Op, why do you care if others leave.

Not a cult. 11 years, 7 months sober

by Anonymousreply 156April 22, 2019 11:25 AM

r135, none of that is accurate.

There are dual diagnosis meetings. And lots of people understand they have more issues and have mental health therapy with a trained professional.

But the bottom line is an asshole is an asshole whether drunk or sober. Some people can become bigger assholes when drinking then they are when sober but still some were an always will be assholes whether drinking or not.

by Anonymousreply 157April 22, 2019 11:32 AM

One sponsor relapsed, another transitioned and another relapsed and committed suicide. And the gay AA meetings in my hometown are mean girl cliques and I felt alienated. Especially when fellowshipping...we’d usually go to a diner or coffee shop and it was basically a contest of war stories and who could tell the best one. I learned to stay quiet. And they thought nothing of talking smack about each other the second one was out of earshot. It was exhausting. Fortunately I was able to find a shrink who has a strong background in addiction therapy. And he totally supports me not doing AA. I’ve been sober for ten years now, five in AA, five out with therapy only.

by Anonymousreply 158April 22, 2019 12:43 PM

R158, at least they talked to you. I spent years in the program and my sponsor recommended not getting too close to other members. I never knew it was a thing and no one in the meetings ever said anything to me.

The program is not exactly welcoming.

by Anonymousreply 159April 23, 2019 12:57 AM

It does more damage over good

by Anonymousreply 160April 23, 2019 10:20 PM

I’m not sure that it does more damage than good*, but a lot of it is patent nonsense. The 12 steps aren’t magic and won’t fix anyone’s life necessarily, and the sponsor model just doesn’t work for a lot of people. I attend the meetings now and then and usually find them helpful, but some are to be avoided — too depressing, too cult-like.

*that said: I am on medication for bipolar disorder which has reduced my suicidal thoughts considerably. One sponsor I had briefly, told me I wasn’t sober if I was on those meds. That’s ridiculous and dangerous.

by Anonymousreply 161May 3, 2019 11:26 PM

A lot of drug dealing at NA.

by Anonymousreply 162May 4, 2019 1:40 AM
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