Netflix Original Series Marvel's The Defenders

Thankfully the team behind "The Defenders" is not the team that was behind "Iron Fist" but rather the showrunners from "Daredevil"

Look forward to this, hopefully it will redeem Danny Rand to have other writers handling the character.

Why do they keep casting Nick Colter in things? He's a terrible actor.

When I first saw him on The Good Wife, I figured they got some muscle-headed sports star who decided to be an actor to play the part of the wealthy gangster. Nope.

Been acting for years.

Why?

I'm not sure. Like, I just don't think I like Finn Jones. But I think Ritter and Cox's charisma may elevate him.

They've been kind of vague about who Sigourney is playing, but I'm hoping against hope she's Madam Masque.

I haven't really watched any of these things after Jessica Jones. I tried Nick Cage but didn't get pulled into it. What's wrong with Iron Fist?

Sorry I meant Luke Cage, lol

Looks promising and even Finn looks like he got an acting lesson or two since Iron Fist. Or maybe the director rode him extra hard like the little bitch he is.

That shot at 1:44 is worth tuning in for alone. And look at that stylised hallway fight where they all join in! Oh, my.

Sigourney Weaver is going to elevate this like nothing else can.

Sigourney Weaver is playing an original character r3.

So, so tired of Marvel. Overexposed.

[quote]What's wrong with Iron Fist?

A lot of stuff. A big part of it is that you have a ninja who barely does any ninja-ing and a big chunk of the plot was about corporate intrigue. There were a few bright spots, like Colleen Wing and the return of Madam Gao from the first season of Daredevil.

Sorry -- I prefer the original with Robert Reed and E.G. Marshall.

I love the way Jessica's eyes flick back and forth between Matt and Misty with that look of total "Da fuq?"

[quote]Sigourney Weaver is playing an original character [R3].

They're CLAIMING that, but I doubt anyone actually believes it. There's a lot of speculation that she's a gender-flipped Mephisto.

Great breakdown of the trailer. She fucking hates Finn Jones as much as I do which I didn't think was possible.

However, I don't get her complaint regarding Sigourney Weaver being shot from below the eye line; it's not like she has turkey neck or anything. And it's an old camera trick that instantly gives stature to a character. Her costume in the boardroom is flawless to me and I'm probably in the right here, seeing how I'm gay. She does need a better bra, though. Can't believe she's 67.

R12 ScreenRant has been speculating that it might be a gender-flipped Alexander Bont, and Grace is betting on Typhoid Mary. I think Mephisto would be a bit much in this series that's supposed to be more street-level. I would be disappointed if she's just another kingpin, though.

Yeah why on earth does anyone thing a street-level down to earth team would be taking on MEPHISTO? Is that really a fan theory? Man 13 year old fanboys can be dumb.

I think it goes into the demonic nature of the Hand and the fact that Elektra's resurrection has to be fulfilled by blood magic.

Hey, Sigourney played God on Eli Stone.

R14 You said it more directly than me, but I agree. I hadn't heard about Mephisto before R12's post so I googled him. As soon as I saw a picture of him hunting the Silver Surfer [italic]in space[/italic], I sensed he wouldn't be the right fit here.

It's like those fans who want to see the Defenders in Infinity War movies. What the fuck are they supposed to do? They don't even cover the whole of New York when you think about it! Are they going to board Danny's private jet and fly across the ocean to save my ass when Thanos drops a purple deuce over my little backwards shithole? Sure, they can all punch real hard, but that's about it. They're certainly no match for Thanos' Black Order.

Having said that, R15's point [italic]does[/italic] sound intriguing. Who could bring back people from the dead other than Mephisto? Also, we've already glimpsed a dragon on IF so maybe they're going all out this time?

More clues from the proud, but careless costume designer for the show:

[quote]“I think that she’s clearly a baddie, and she’s the [bold]head of an ancient organization[/bold] which is grounded in the comics. I hope that her wardrobe reflects that kind of ancientness. I hope I haven’t said too much. I hope Marvel doesn’t come after me.”

[quote]“There was a palette component to [Alexandra’s] world too. I don’t really want to get into that, but you can draw your own conclusions from what you’ve seen. [There is] a lot of depth to her wardrobe. A lot of life [bold]or lives[/bold] to her wardrobe, I wanna say.”

Isn't Typhoid Mary supposed to be schizophrenic? That would explain the "or lives" bit. Or Mephisto, bringing people from the dead. Now I'm certain we're not getting a generic kingpin.

Second trailer released at Comic-Con.

I still don't get why they don't have Danny in costume so they could get a stunt man to do more of the fighting for him.

R19 They came up with some excuse at Comic-Con, saying The Defenders is actually the second part of the first season of Iron Fist and that he will don the costume at the end, just like Daredevil did at the end of his season.

I'm honestly surprised to learn that Iron Fist is getting a second season at all. They should have just combined it and Luke Cage and done it as Heroes for Hire. Which, instead of Misty Knight going to Iron Fist, would have freed her for a Daughters of the Dragon series with Colleen Wing.

R21 I [italic]hated[/italic] the first season (Sacha Dhawan notwithstanding) but I'm not surprised it's getting another season. Wasn't it the most streamed Marvel Netflix show or something like that?

I'm sure increasing its budget and having a stern talk with the terrible showrunner will do the trick. Finn's acting seems markedly improved in this trailer, which I'm glad to see as that was my main complaint before.

The trailer looks good, excited for this series.

And of course Iron Fist is getting a second season, the Marvel Netflix train is running hot. I just hope they really take to heart all the complaints and work hard to turn it around. Though I am not sure how much Finn himself cares.

Krysten Ritter gave away that Finn hadn't bothered to watch any of these shows.

[quote]Krysten Ritter gave away that Finn hadn't bothered to watch any of these shows.

Just when I thought I couldn't hate that fucking actor more, I read stuff like that. Christ, that little shit is annoying!

Interview

Contrast to Ritter, who wanted the part so badly, she made sure to come to her audition dressed as Jessica.

From what I understand, they rushed through Iron Fist (with the last minute casting of Finn) to get to Defenders, and it shows. So I'm assuming they're going to spend more effort for the second season of IF.

OT but I watched the first three episodes of Ozark last night and thus far the show is pretty awesome.

R27 Yeah, they didn't get the same budget as other Marvel series [italic]and[/italic] it was so rushed they only showed Finn his moves fifteen minutes before the scenes were shot. I bitched about his acting [italic]a lot[/italic] but he probably didn't receive the proper direction as a consequence of it being a rush job.

I'm sure they'll learn from those criticisms rather than get cocky over viewing figures, and the show will be much better in its second season as a result. I'll watch it regardless for Sacha Dhawan alone.

And these are the same people bringing you Inhumans. Good luck with that.

Yep, shock to no one that Inhumans looks pretty bad as well.

Iron Fist looked okay to me from the trailers but Inhumans looked horrific from the very first promo photo, and still does even after getting better editors to cut the Comic-Con trailer.

It's amazing what some showrunners get away with.

Scott Buck is famous for completely ruining Dexter as well when he was brought on board.

But he is easy to work with and gets things done on schedule and under budget.

Damn, literally just announced like 10 minutes ago. Scott Buck is fired from "Iron Fist", they are changing show runners.

[quote]Iron Fist may have been renewed for a second season, but there’s a creative shakeup going on behind the scenes. EW has learned the Marvel superhero drama will change showrunners for its next round. Scott Buck (Dexter) is stepping down from the top writing gig on the show with Raven Metzner (Sleepy Hollow, Falling Skies) being hired to fill the top slot.

I didn't think Iron Fist was *that* bad

No, it obviously wasn't the worst thing I've ever seen, but if you compare it to the first seasons of Daredevil and Jessica Jones it is an appallingly lesser effort on every front. Not the quality that Marvel or Netflix is trying to go for.

I thought it was on a par with Iron Fist and I don't remember that getting the same shitstorm

R34 YES! Now we're talking! See, they [italic]do[/italic] learn.

R36 Yeah, that was always my view as well. No way did it reach the bar that previous Marvel-Netflix shows have set. It looked terrible in comparison and it's only natural to compare them.

"Luke Cage" was the best of the 4 series. It has a unique ambience and was more sophisticated than the others -- thematically and culturally. The score and the soundtrack were amazing. I think it works better than the others as a standalone.

So happy I cancelled my Netflix subscription.

R39 I just can't with Diamondback (the actor and the character) and that street-fight in the finale, though. Like what the fuck [italic]was[/italic] that?!

Also, three to five episodes too long. Trim the fat and tighten it up. I think that was the main problem people in general had with the show. Well, that and Diamondback coming into the picture instead of the wonderful Cottonmouth staying on.

Yeah the diamondback character really derailed Luke Cage, was much better when we had Mahershala Ali.

Still though parts of it worked really well, and you could feel how much the creative time really cared about what they were doing even when it didn't work. A lot of love went into that show, christ, they even had a Dapper Dan appearance.

R42 Oh yeah, all of that care definitely came through and they did a great job for going in pretty much blind. I'm as excited for its second season as I am for Jessica Jones. Again, I'm sure its showrunners listen to criticism and a lot of the stuff that wasn't working will be smoothed out.

Clip of Alexandra and Madame Gao plotting.

The subtitles are a weird choice, especially because Gao clearly says three months, not seven.

I just can't think of the Defenders without the Valkyrie. It needs a 6-foot blonde with steel tits.

Sigourney Weaver is gonna rock this, so happy they brought her on board for this series.

She sounds so good in that trailer. Also, I'm such a whore for costume design and hers look like they'll be [italic]amazing![/italic]

r41/ r42. Completely agree about Diamondback. That storyline was a deficit. Otherwise, I liked the story and I thought supporting characters were great.

[quote]I just can't think of the Defenders without the Valkyrie. It needs a 6-foot blonde with steel tits.

You'll have for Thor: Ragnarok for Val.

This is Valkyrie in the upcoming Thor. . .Tessa Thompson

That wimpy little thing is supposed to be the Valkyrie?! A very poor substitute..

Reviews are coming in

[quote]‘The Defenders’ is the Marvel team-up you hoped for — Iron Fist and all

Though some other reviewers were upset it apparently takes them until the end of episode three before the characters come together.

[quote]‘The Defenders’ Review: Marvel’s Netflix Heroes Assemble, but Not Soon Enough

[quote]Though some other reviewers were upset it apparently takes them until the end of episode three before the characters come together.

Didn't the Avengers only assemble like, two thirds into the movie?

[quote]OT but I watched the first three episodes of Ozark last night and thus far the show is pretty awesome.

The trailer put me off. The combination of comedy guy Jason Batemen and in this brutal and violent show just didn't sit well with me for some reason.

Iron Fist (First Season) 's problem is the terrible fighting sequences that look just embarrassing for a show about martial arts. Total rush job in that regard. Finn is easy on the eye. That kept me interested (yeah, shallow bitch here).

A collection of reviews here.

Slow burn, Alexandra is just another kingpin which no one asked for, worth watching for the chemistry between the team members. All in all, nothing special.

Finn does look a lot better in a green suit than the mess of whatever he was wearing in the series. I liked 'Iron Fist' enough to finish the first season, working through Jessica Jones now.

Another review. The series drops this Friday.

[quote]What they, and the series, needs to do is to loosen up a bit. It needn't go full Joss Whedon, but The Defenders needs to know it's not The Wire – it's a superhero team-up series, and it needn't feel shy about that. "Don't say the H word!" Jessica says at one point, while Luke Cage tells somebody else, "Hero's your word, not mine."

[quote]The Defenders is a series that appears so ashamed of its comic book roots that it's forgotten to be fun. What felt tonally fresh two years ago is becoming a stylistic straitjacket now. Maybe it's time for the super-sober small-screen Marvel to borrow some of the lightness of touch of its big-screen siblings. After sticking with this universe for 65 episodes, we could do with a smile.

R58 Did you finish JJ?

Finn is the reason I disliked Iron Fist. He looks like another pudding-face Leonardo Dicaprio wannabe when I was wanting to see a warrior.

I didn't really dislike Finn, but I surprisingly found myself liking his druggie corporate 'brother' Ward a lot.

Cannot wait for this.

Yep,I know what I'll be doing when I wake up hungover Saturday morning.

I just realized right this instant that Iron Fist is the same guy who played expert swordswallower Sir Loras Tyrell on GoT!!!! Exciting.

Congrats on joining the rest of the world r64.

While the reviews have been less than stellar (though not bad, just some disappointed feelings), important to note they have only seen the first four of the 8 episodes. The Defenders don't even get together til the end of episode three, who knows how the back half will go.

Final trailer, featuring a lot more of Sigourney Weaver.

They need for Trish to put a yellow and blue costume as the happy-go-lucky Hellcat! That would give a much-needed lift.

People really need to increase their attention spans; a lot seem to be up in arms that it takes 3 episodes to get them in the same scene for a show that will likely run many seasons.

I'm not a kung fu junkie/expert so the fighting scenes in IF were fine by me and I enjoyed the whole season. Couldn't get through LC, hopefully it won't be needed to watch Defenders.

R69 It has nothing to do with attention span. We've been waiting for these four to team up for [italic]ages[/italic] now; do we really need three episodes of an 8-episode season to set that up?

Then the advance reviews did you a huge favor, r70. When it's streaming tomorrow, just start with episode 3!

The reviews are meh. This whole franchise has been about 80% mediocre. The only okay parts were most of Jessica Jones and the first part of the first season of Daredevil. Everything else has been a yawn. Hopefully Sigourney pulls it out.

R71 I'm a completist so I'll watch the entire season. I'll just fast-forward through the talky and angsty parts. Shouldn't take more than an hour to watch all three like that.

I finished it, and I really like it. You can tell the writers worked really hard on making Danny tolerable to the audience after getting so much shit for his solo show. Loved the dynamic between Matt and Jessica and Luke and Jessica. I don't think Sigorueney's villain was that impressive, but she was great.

Finished it just now.

The first episode was talky and angsty, just as I had predicted. And then it blasted off and I loved every moment of it. Until episode 5, when everything ground to a halt (worst episode of the bunch). It picked up again in 6 and 7, with a predictable final showdown in 8.

Luke's entrances being the only one accompanied with hip hop and rap was beyond cringy and ham-fisted. The music in the final showdown was bizarre as well - either the song choice or the sound mixing, something was off.

JJ's contribution amounted to offering cynical quips now and then and she was somewhat underpowered. I imagine the least amount of effort went into writing her character.

Dany continues to spout the same nonsense over and over again, and Finn has only marginally improved his acting chops. He and Bakuto are the worst actors of the bunch. Although, did you spot Gao glancing at cue cards in Alexandra's room? But she's not a native speaker, so I get it.

Alexandra's outfits were amazing but the costume designer should [italic]really[/italic] have given her a bra in that boardroom scene; her nips were pointing three different ways. Not a good look for a grande dame like Sigourney. Though I have to agree with some critics saying the production values of this show aren't the best; they're seriously cutting back in that regard.

A formulaic story, but great, [italic]great[/italic] fight scenes. All in all, it was just okay. Now enough with the fucking Hand, please.

My theory is that they are going to emulate the Avengers and do a Defenders: Civil War at some point. I don't think that arguement about the building blowing up was coincidental and Elektra is now the Netflix universe Bucky Barnes.

[quote] R75 JJ's contribution amounted to offering cynical quips now and then and she was somewhat underpowered. I imagine the least amount of effort went into writing her character.

I agree, she wasn't given much to do and given that she went toe-to-toe with Luke Cage in her own series she did seem a bit weak in The Defenders.

But having said that, I thought that having them all together just showed how she is by far the most compelling character even though she wasn't given much to work with.

R77 She really is. I loved when Gao called her "the unyielding woman." That's exactly what she is! Also, I was hoping we'd see her jump-fly at least once. Oh well, maybe next season.

On a shallower note, JJ's assistant is drop dead gorgeous and seems to have bulked up a bit since JJ's first season. He and Davos should pair up and make beautiful babies who would conquer the world.

Murakami wasn't that bad either. His ass in those silver pants when he brought Alexandra the wine? Oh, my.

Do you think this they would benefit by going more comic book (like the movies and Agents of Shield) or less? Introduce Moon Knight, Ghost Rider? Add a bit more hybridization? Or just stay the course with different villians?

I don't know, I wouldn't want for this to get more sprawling than it already is. I kind of like the story being contained to just these four leads and the accompanying sidekicks. I also want each of them to turn up in the other's series now and then. And of course, the Punisher has to make an appearance as well. I [italic]love[/italic] bizarre couplings so I hope he crosses paths with JJ.

Seeing people's responses to Dany's glowing hand makes me a bit worried for the more fantastical characters like Ghostrider and Moon Knight. Remember when someone on DL speculated that Sigourney would play Mephisto? Yeah, I'm thinking they'll be keeping this property more grounded than its cinematic cousins.

Does anyone know what happened to that Stone character we met at the end of season one of Daredevil, when Stick paid him a visit? He's one of The Chaste as well, isn't he?

The chemistry between Matt Murdock and Jessica Jones is the bright spot in this show. It's because both characters are played by very talented actors. Charlie Cox is underrated.

Iron Fist looks a bit better as they upgraded his fighting skills but the scene where he walks in and tells Midland Corporation that is over is another Danny immature thing. I've come to realize that the biggest flaw to Iron Fist is Finn Jones. He looks gorgeous but he still acts like a whiny teenager.

btw, is Finn Jones gay? There's a lot of pics of him drooling over Mike Colter and other guys....barely any pics of women. If he wants to keep his job, his Danny Rand should show more chemistry with Colleen Wing. Jessica Henwick as Colleen is the best thing about Iron Fist and she props up his character.

I hope they keep it more grounded.. The Netflix universe is really popular with people who find the MCU too fantastical. I am glad that we are (maybe) done with The Hand for now, and hope we can move onto more interesting and complex villains like David Tennant's Kilgrave, the best Marvel villain so far.

Speaking of Jessica's strength, loved the scene of her holding the elevator by the rope-- perhaps she doesn't know the full extent of her strength? She seemed kind of wary about it after she killed Luke's wife.

Can't wait to see what they do with Misty Knight now that she finally lost her arm. Will be good to see her fighting with the Defenders and not against them due to her job. I'm hoping Trish eventually becomes Hellcat at some point.

Brilliant in-depth review of the season by Grace. Some of her points are scarily similar to my critiques!

Though I have to completely disagree with her take on Sigourney's costumes; but for that golden braless ensemble, I found them to be absolutely gorgeous and without fault. As a huge Project Runway fan and also a huge homosexual on top of that, I'm afraid my opinion on this matter carries the day.

+1 for Hellcat. I think they could use more straight up supervillian next time around,. Doesn't have to be something crazy, but I think we are suffering from kung fu fatigue.

Yeah, those king fu moves sort of bleed into each other after a while and you need inventive camerawork to make them fresh again. Like Danny's slow-moving fight with Elektra in the cave; that was just a treat to watch.

SW is almost 70. WHoever does her work is amazing. She looks great, and even has forehead lines.

*kung fu

R87 I love how she looks as well. Gracefully aged faces are so much easier on the eyes than perfectly ironed out ones, at least for me.

Ah, I was waiting for Tom&Lorenzo's seal of approval. I feel so vindicated right now. And I questioned my taste levels for a second there. But just for a second.

Just look at how majestic and dignified she looks! Those gloves [italic]are[/italic] terrible, though.

Disappointed it was only 8 episodes.

The "substance" was kind of an annoying McGuffin.

What was so terrible about her gloves, R89?

I loved her coat, but when she took it off, the dress under it was way beyond ugly.

Loved Sigourney, loved the series. If there were male nudity it would be even better.

R91 I just hate oversized puckery leather gloves in general; they look like rubber cleaning gloves, or the ones a worker in the meat packing industry would use, or a veterinarian who's about to give an elephant a rectal exam... you get the gist. Eurgh.

Either give her a properly fitted (and shorter!) pair or choose another material. She deserves only the best, goddamnit!

I've rewatched the scene and we only get a glimpse of what she's wearing underneath that coat. But from what we [italic]do[/italic] see, I have to say, I [italic]love[/italic] the gold-black-grey flowery print on her blouse. So regal and it also mirrors the white roses on the table. Would not mind having a caftan with that print at all.

r75 your post made me wonder if Ritter and Weaver reminisced about VAMPS !

So... four of the five fingers of the hand are dead? Only Madame Gao remains? Is that right?

Another superhero show. This is what we have come to.

To be honest for me the season lacked substance. Yeah, Weaver was great at first, but her plot was so thin that I was grateful when she was put out of her misery two episodes before the finale. Maybe I just expect too much of a superhero TV show. I have Ozark in my viewing cue, but still a bit apprehensive to sit down and actually watch it for some reason.

R97 I hate that she got saddled with such sub-par writing. Everything that should have an emotional punch (her wanting to go home to K'un-Lun, her daughter dying...) was told to us, rather than shown. How can I connect to a character who just relays everything about her via exposition talk? Also, she only got one brief ass-kicking scene even though she was the leader of their group!

Watch Ozark! It's so good.

R96, why are you in this thread?

Stunt doubles!

Danny's stuntie looks more like Iron Fist than the scrawny Finn.

Very glad Madame Gao slipped off quietly. She's one of the best parts of the franchise. I'd watch a Madame Gao series.

I imagine we'll see Alexandra again. She's not dead-dead.

[quote]I imagine we'll see Alexandra again. She's not dead-dead.

She most certainly is, along with Bakuto and Sowande. It has been established that you don't come back from having your head removed.

Murakami and Gao are the only ones who have any chance of returning.

They might be back in flashbacks, if the show does flashbacks.

Or prequels.

But if this was her first time meeting the heroes then having her in a prequel would be pointless.

R103 That's possible but I don't imagine a big name like Sigourney Weaver signing on to appear in flashbacks only.

Prequels are more likely. But seeing how people have grown tired of the Hand, I find even that unlikely.

Couldn't even finish Daredevil Season 1 and did not watched the other Marvel shows

Luke Cage is hot

... so Stick is dead too?

Seems to me like, with only Gao left, they kinda have to leave "The Hand" alone from now on. At least for a few years.

Run of the mill boring. Tried 15 minutes of it. Note to directors: All shows don't have to have rap crap music in them.

R110, you type old and prissy. I love hip hop, so great.

R93, I went back and watched the scene in the hospital pre-MRI where she removes her coat. That blouse is much more beautiful now that I've been able to stop the action and see it more closely. It's a beautiful Asian-looking flower print, undoubtedly fine silk. What's most unusual is that it covers her left arm like a normal blouse but the right side is sleeveless and almost looks like a wide-strapped tank top.

I loved SW's wardrobe. They obviously didn't stint on budget when they were dressing her. It helps, both in terms of how well she's aging and how well she wears clothes, that Weaver isn't typical Hollywood anorexic but a healthy-looking weight. Not overweight, but healthy looking.

With everyone else in boots, jeans and hoodies or dark robes and Madame Gao dressed rather frumpily in dark colors, she provides a distinct contrast.

So... no more "substance"?

No more "Hand"?

No more Stick?

R113 That's right - no more of any of that.

Of course, Stone still remains unleashed and he won't be happy that Stick's gone.

What a mess this was. Sigourney was a total waste. Btw, Gao didn't slip off, she was there wHen everything collapsed. It looks as if the Hand is dead. But honestly, who cares. Krysten Ritter almost saved this disaster, but not quite.

Just when it started to feel epic... it was suddenly very small and suddenly over.

Somehow Murdoch escaped. That was quite a bit of hand-waving there. So obviously Gao escaped. And ... Electra too I assume.

Does that mean people can get down to the now-opened "substance"? I mean, if people can get out, can't others get in?

And if that "substance" (what an annoying McGuffin) exists, then maybe some of those deaths can be reversed?

R116 No, it has been established that cutting off the head is [italic]the[/italic] end and no amount of substance can bring you back.

And yeah, "the substance" [italic]is[/italic] an annoying MacGuffin; I cringe just typing it out.

Right, but only TWO of the five got their heads cut off.

One is still alive. The two others might be revived.

R118 Alexandra, Bakuto and Sowande [italic]all[/italic] had their heads cut off.

Best part of the series was seeing the beginnings of DAUGHTERS OF THE DRAGON, and the set up for Misty Knight getting her (bionic?) arm.

And FUCK YES Trish needs to go back to her red hair and "Patsy" and become HELLCAT!

That still leaves one dead guy who can come back, R119.

It's sounding like we were all watching different shows, so much confusion over what really happened on this show.

More substance was able to be retrieved before the building collapse. The substance was made from the bones of the ancient skeleton (dragon?). Members of the Hand carted off pieces of bone which was likely the back from the dead substance.

Finished the series.

I enjoyed it, but it was good not great. I'm glad the reviews lowered my expectations going into it.

Sigourney Weaver did feel wasted. A great wardrobe aside, they didn't really give her much to work with.

Krysten Ritter shined. Man this show needed the Jessica Jones character, without her one-liners and no bullshit attitude it never would have worked. You can tell Krysten and Charlie are the better half of actors in the foursome, their scenes together worked so well.

The writers here were able to handle Danny Rand better, they used those traits people found annoying about him and actually made it work in the dynamic and had people call him out on it. Plus on this show he can actually fight unlike the terrible fighting choreography he had on his own series. Mike Colter handled well being the lovable heart of the group.

I expected Rosario Dawson's Claire to figure more prominently in this series given her ominipresence in these shows but she took a decidedly backseat.

Elodie Yung's Elektra played a much bigger role than expected, but I must say she did well. She was an unsung hero in holding this together.

And yes. Gao and the Japanese hand were there when the building collapsed, but they easily could have survived for another day. And the hand was able to extract some of the "substance" macguffin before the building was brought down.

[quote]Maybe I just expect too much of a superhero TV show.

The genre of a project does not define the quality of the writing, there is no reason it couldn't have been more.

I get that there were only 8 episodes and that people REALLY wanted to see the 4 title characters together, but I think the supporting leads on all these shows are the strongest parts and it was strange to see most of them reduced to brief cameos or barely mentioned.

Hopefully, now that they've figured out how to mesh the title characters into one show, they can incorporate the supporting leads into more complex roles next time.

The supporting characters have their home series to have more complex roles when it is devoted to their individual worlds. It makes sense a Defenders series has to be chiefly focused on the four defenders.

Karen needs to fucking get over it. So does Foggy. Why does DareDevil have the only secondary characters that DON'T support what he does? Jesus.

I hate Rosario Dawson, and I hate Rosario Dawson's obnoxious character (who was the worst thing about Iron Fist... and yes I mean worse than Danny rand)

Really should have had 10 episodes.

You're trying to fit in that many characters? You need more time to develop them and let them breathe.

Virtually every other series was too long. This one was too short.

Who's watching this shit! Blacks?

is Deborah Ann Woll in this much?

R132 She pops up now and then and gets a long-ish scene.

Which Netflix Marvel show will get a second season next? I believe Jessica Jones was the first Netflix produced, so will it get a second season first, then Daredevil, then Luke Cage and then Iron Fist?

[quote]More substance was able to be retrieved before the building collapse. The substance was made from the bones of the ancient skeleton (dragon?). Members of the Hand carted off pieces of bone which was likely the back from the dead substance.

R122 Except that's not what happened. Danny clearly stopped the workers from retrieving the substance. Then they were too busy attacking the Defenders to proceed with their work. Plus that place is thirty stories underground with (seemingly) only one lift available to them.

However, seeing how Daredevil miraculously managed to escape, I've no doubt that Gao and Murakami made it out with the substance as well.

R134 Here you go, sorted by release date.

The Punisher: Season 1 (November 2017)

Jessica Jones: Season 2 (expected early 2018 or summer 2018)

Luke Cage: Season 2 (expected spring 2018 or summer 2018)

Daredevil: Season 3 (expected fall 2018/early 2019)

Iron Fist: Season 2 (expected early 2019 to mid-2019)

r136, thank you very much.

Ummm I have a silly question. What's Netflix's policy on cancellation then subsequent re-subscription ?

[quote]To be honest for me the season lacked substance

This is a good way to describe it. It was a fun enough ride but there was no there there.

R138, I didn't like the date of the automatic payment for my original subscription and called to change it. A Netflix CSR told me to cancel and re-subscribe on the day I wanted. They don't have some kind of draconian policy to punish re-subscribers.

I don't even understand what r138 is asking.

Obviously it is your right to cancel and start their service whenever you want to.

You don't have to R141 , R140 answered it :D !

Tom and Lorenzo weigh in, always interested in their take.

R143 I've seen their reaction on Twitter as well and it was the same as mine; beyond elated at first and then the novelty wears off and the writing problems start becoming more and more obvious.

While acknowledging the faults they are still largely positive about it r144, said they are more interested in future Defenders series than individual series because the characters play well off each other.

[quote]btw, is Finn Jones gay?

He played gay for Game of Thrones and said many times during interviews he is straight.

So, he's gay r146?

Personally I doubt it r147.

I do think he is a big druggie, many times during GoT press coverage he seemed on something. How many lines do you think he snorted before this interview?

Finn is a gross Bernie Bro

Interview with the showrunner

That's his [italic]mom?![/italic]

The show was boring and screenplay was week

So this dropped a week ago today and the buzz seems to be pretty much over already.

I know that's the nature of binge television but I'm still not quite used to it.

The show only starts coming together at the end of episode 3, and then the team really forms and the plot finally starts moving.

[quote]The show was boring and screenplay was week

This is why we can't have nice things. Some illiterate moron always comes along to fuck it up.

They need to make more The Defenders shows than the individual shows..... the characters playing against each other is one of the brighter spots. What they can do, is make the individual shows shorter like 6 episodes max and The Defenders longer like 10.

Loved the banter between Jessica and Daredevil. They have chemistry, almost a love/hate relationship, even though they are not each other's types, there could be a spark.

They need to think of a better adversary and conflict for them to face. The appeal of Daredevil and Jessica Jones first seasons is they had strong and interesting characters in Wilson Fisk and Kilgrave.

I was hoping Sigourney Weaver would be a rich adversary that would lead to a compelling show but the writing just wasn't there.

[quote]They need to make more The Defenders shows than the individual shows..... the characters playing against each other is one of the brighter spots. What they can do, is make the individual shows shorter like 6 episodes max and The Defenders longer like 10.

I think they'd be well advised to at least have a six-episode Iron Fist, a six-episode Luke Cage, and then a ten-episode Heroes for Hire. Luke and Danny together were a sum greater than their parts.

Failing that, find some hot Hong Kong action star to play Shang-Chi, and have him spent every episode of IF S2 shirtless.

This show came and went so quickly... I doubt it's among the best rated shows on Netflix given the utter lack of buzz.

Netflix's most popular shows are mostly Marvel shows r159. I'm sure this show did very well for them.

What will Netflix do when Disney takes their Superheroes away?

Netflix is negotiating to keep the marvel super-hero shows and star wars when Disney pulls everything else.

Holy shit!!!

Is it bad that I cheered when Bakato cut off Misty's arm, since I knew that meant the robot arm was coming?

I thought the Bakuto was kind of cute and a pretty good actor. Too bad they killed him off.

The dude who played Bakuto was a terrible actor IMO.

I thought Luke Cage was terrific! African American issues and references were incorporated in an interesting and unique way: music (great mix of old and new), crime, Luke's unpenetrable skin, his unjust imprisonment, Harlem, families destroyed by violence, racism and black on black crime. I wasn't familiar with the comic book series or character and was surprised by how much I enjoyed it.

Americans have such a difficult time addressing racial issues but this show really did a tremendous job.

Every time they did a close-up of Luke Cage, I couldn't get over how fucking gorgeous he is. I so want to fuck him (and be fucked by him).

And I still want to marry Matt Murdoch.

The Iron Fist can be my bitch boy.

The scene in JJ where she and Luke reveal their powers to each other is one of the hottest love/sex ever, imo. I especially love the beginning.

Ignore the cheesy music someone added to the clip.

R164 No! I cheered as well, especially because I did [italic]not[/italic] see it coming at all. Just like the reviewer at R84 said, that alone almost made the series for me.

Kinda disappointed to see the huge divide between the movies and the TV shows. I'm sure they want to keep the movies kid-friendly, but still... Hoping that they'll at least give a big hint that Misty's new bionic arm is Stark Tech.

Grace geeks out over Misty's new arm.

R171 Some of those super cool powers from the comics she lists in this video... yeah, I don't think we'll be seeing any of that stuff, sadly. I even doubt they'll have the arm be made out of vibranium because Bucky already has that schtick.

[quote]Kinda disappointed to see the huge divide between the movies and the TV shows.

In spite of it being the "same universe" you are better off thinking the movies don't exist.

Realistically it silly when we are talking about the complete annihilation of New York and they are the only ones who could stop it...as if the Avengers don't exist and you can't give them a call.

I was really happy to see All My Children's Debbi Morgan as the mom of the boy Luke was trying to protect. She gave a great performance, like always. Her "all my babies is gone!" wail when she found out the boy had been killed broke my heart.

Let me tell you about Deb Morgan: I wish she worked more often, even if it was just on episodic TV.

I loved "Luke Cage." "The Defenders" was good, but the other standalones were just OK for me. Still I am looking forward to the next season of all the Marvel shows.

I liked Iron Fist a lot and think Finn Jones is very cute. Now.... is he gay? He really pings to me.

Witter is so good as Jessica Jones. But when the hell is Patsy going to become Hellcat?? And in the comics, isn't Colleen Wing a redhead??

[quote]And in the comics, isn't Colleen Wing a redhead??

I think more significantly Matt Murdock is a redhead in the comics, I'm always surprised the fanboys didn't complain more about that.

Collen Wing is normally depicted with red hair, which doesn't really make sense as she is Japanese, but I guess she likes to dye it red.

[bold]Netflix ‘Marvel’s The Defenders’ Is Least-Viewed Among Marvel Street-Hero Series in Debut Month in U.S., Study Finds[/bold]

Hmm. This just doesn't seem like it's true for some reason.

Netflix fucked it up by forcing it to be a rush-job. Why didn't they just go directly for their desired Defender franchise and then give each hero his own well planned / mapped out "prequel" or "origin" series? People would have totally geeked out about that and then watched the first Defenders release again catching all the easter eggs or nods to the individual shows.

R180 There are many criticisms aimed at Marvel Netflix shows but yours isn't among the most common. I'd argue that you need origin stories first so that the inevitable team-up has some weight to it. And also satisfaction because these established characters are [italic]finally[/italic] meeting for the first time and the viewers are on edge because they have no idea how they will interact with each other.

Otherwise, you just end up with a Dawn of Justice situation where it all falls flat without the previous groundwork.

Well they're definitely doing LC 2, but Defenders 2 is up in the air.

[quote]There are many criticisms aimed at Marvel Netflix shows but yours isn't among the most common.

So people don't call the first season of Iron Fist a rush job to get to the Defenders series?

It may be that viewers were still trying to catch up on the individual seasons before diving into Defenders.

Defenders wasn't really new viewer friendly and it really would help to have seen the other series. If you didn't get through Daredevil S2 you would have really been lost and missed a lot of things going on. It's a major time investment to follow these.

Plus, the shows have different styles. It's totally possible for many viewers to like one or 2 and be totally hating the others. Defenders might then seem like a waste for them.

R183 Oh yeah, I was about to mention IF as the sole exception but I ran out of steam. That one [italic]definitely[/italic] should have been skipped* as by that point it had been taking too long to get to the Defenders anyway so they were just dragging it out.

*In my opinion and with hindsight in mind. Others would vehemently disagree as they loved IF.

Damn that surprises me that the Defenders ratings are lacking compared to the individual series.

I guess no as many viewers watched all four series so didn't want to check out of the Defenders.

A lot of people think it's because Iron Fist was a shitty lead in and that The Hand has been overdone.

[quote]Hmm. This just doesn't seem like it's true for some reason.

R179, it totally sounds like it is. I do admit I'm a bit surprised that all other shows had only about one-fourth of the viewership of Daredevil, but then again DD has really been the only good show of the bunch, even though S2 was a disappointment.

The Marvel at Netflix mentality of stretching out a mini-series worthy story into a full season has backfired hugely, and they are now paying the price. I haven't watched The Defenders yet and I'm certainly not rushing to subscribe to Netflix again because of it.

I thought the series overall was better on second viewing. The weakest plot was Alexandra as the leader of the Hand. She wasn't impressive or ruthless enough and her fixation with Electra was creepy and yielded nothing except the plot twist betrayal. Once you know Alexandra was a one-trick throwaway character, you can just skim over her parts and the series was way more enjoyable.

[quote] I do admit I'm a bit surprised that all other shows had only about one-fourth of the viewership of Daredevil, but then again DD has really been the only good show of the bunch, even though S2 was a disappointment.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's the ONLY good Marvel show. Daredevil has the distinction of being the most known and popular character of the bunch among comic fans and casual viewers. Iron Fist is their only true misfire. I believe had they not carried over so much of its subplots and characters into The Defenders, which at times made it seem like Iron Fist s2, the viewership would have been much better.

The Punisher is debuting on November 17th. I bet that it will do much better in the ratings.

Jessica Jones was my favorite, is also the one that most people check out first according to Netflix.

R190 I think in the Defenders, Finn Jones grew more into the role of Iron Fist. I think the second season of Iron Fist will be better.

They seem to be pushing Punisher as a separate part of the Defenders universe. That seems like a strange strategy, but given the viewership levels of the other Marvel shows, it might be smart given that they're really going to ramp up the violence in this one. They can promote this to fans of violent movies who don't need to watch the superhero shows they may have avoided.

The data at R179 is from the U.S. while the Netflix VP might be talking about global numbers. Or the VP could be lying since Netflix only releases the viewership data when it suits them. In any case there's a huge discrepancy between the two statements since the marketing-analytics firm Jumpshot is saying that Jessica Jones is actually the least watched show of the original four with only 26% of the Daredevil S2's viewership. Jumpshot is only measuring the first 30 days after the release but that's probably not too far from the truth. IF they even are measuring the data correctly that is.

The first 30 days of JJ was likely low, due to low knowledge of the character, but I've read that it has the highest female viewership of the 4 and that viewership has steadily grown faster for the series as positive word of mouth grew.

R195, things could obviously be as you say but if I remember correctly people were anxiously waiting for JJ because Daredevil had been so great. Netflix was releasing trailers and hyping up the release so people probably were well aware of the show.

Defenders suffered from how terrible Iron Fist was.

Defenders was their lowest viewed marvel show to date, serves them.right for bringing back that terrible elektra actress.

My only real problem with The Defenders was that it needed a couple more episodes to fill out the ending.... which seemed really rushed, and I kept feeling like scenes were missing.

R197 I thought he got better. I especially liked when he was all deadpan serious about K'un-Lun and the rest of the team was like uh-huh. I also think he and Colleen finally have some chemistry, especially in their last scene in the Defenders. But I think his power was not showcased well in either the Defenders or his own serious, so I hope the show will improve on that.

Finn Jones is filming for Luke Cage Season 2

R201 I am starting to like Finn as Iron Fist.

Uh-oh.

[quote]What did you make of the critical response to The Defenders?

[quote]Well, I think Jessica was pretty well received. People were excited to see her again, so that made us happy because Jessica is the next up. Y’know, I had a great time doing The Defenders and honestly, it was such a good experience that I would even do it again. [bold]I don’t think we are doing it again.[/bold] It was never intentioned to do it again, but, you know, if I was given another opportunity, I would. My heart is with my show because of the subject matter and because of the great drama that we get to do and the personal issues that we explore. For me, that is more the type of content that I enjoy as a viewer and as a performer. My heart is in Jessica Jones, but I did have a great time doing The Defenders with the guys. We had a good time. It is what it is.

R203 They can also do Defenders without her... I thought she was sort of out of her league and the dead weight of the team.

What r204? Man that is a minority opinion for sure r204. Jessica Jones interacting with the other characters was one of the highlights of the Defenders.

Not surprised the aren't rushing to do another run. Reaction to the Defenders was pretty ho-hum, and making it is a lot more complicated than their solo series.

Also I should point out you seemed to not understand the interview. Ritter said she would be happy to do it again, but she doesn't think Marvel is going to green light another Defenders series.

204 That's because this series had different (i.e. shittier) writers than the Jessica Jones series and they had no idea how to write her character.

r206 I understood the interview just fine; I posted it because ScreenRant made an article out of it. Keep your condescension to yourself next time.