13 Reasons Why

When did it come out??

I liked it, but it's really depressing and the episode 13 where it actually happens in all its gory detail is very hard to watch, but what really got me was her being so devastated of the jock stealing her notes from that compliment bag.

I read the book and found it hard to feel bad about the girl dying as she was such a vapid twerp.

March 31... I binged it on Netflix this wknd....she's quite unstable and her 13 reasons wrecked a lot of people.

Dylan Minette is pretty cute.

r4 Although Looking For Alaska was worse as all the characters were that bad. I only finished it because I knew it ended in a car crash and I was hoping the car crash would wipe them all out.

r6 Oops, I meant R3, sorry.

Sorry, Dylan MinNette.

16 Reasons was much better.

On one hand I feel sorry for Hannah being so lost in her head that she thinks killing herself is her only option, on the other she's shown to be pretty manipulative (the way she plays with Josh in the first episode to get him interested in her, "testing" her friends and that guidance councelor). Yes, some of the guys were real jerks, but she really should have moved on from some of the stuff (as the guidance councelor suggested, but Hannah sees that as total betrayal and being viciously abandoned) and how INSANE was it that she didn't jump out of the hottub the moment Bryce was in it?

[quote]the way she plays with Josh in the first episode

His name is Justin.

It features a great selection of songs.

I think I'm 5 episodes in. Alex (Miles Heizer) is probably the gayest straight character ever on TV. The guy who plays Tony is about 20 years too old for high school. How did he get cast? I think Clay uses the same lotion as lube as I do when he jerks off at his computer.

It is depressing and super uncomfortable to watch.

R12 - what was the slow song at the Winter formal?

r13, that's Lord Huron - The Night We Met

I am usually not the one who falls for product placements, but damn, after watching the show I so want Clay's headphones.

What I wonder about (I haven't read the book) is what is Tyler's deal? He is seen stocking up on guns and ammo, hiding them in a hidden compartment of his trunk and taking off a picture of Alex who turns out he shot himself in the head (did he really shoot himself?) amongst pictures of the ones who bully or at least diss him in school (including Clay who posted that picture of Taylor's naked ass as revenge for being Hanna's stalker posting a picture of her and Courteny kissing).

It was made pretty clear that she was somewhat unstable. She was a teenager. 99.9% of teenagers are unstable. Their frontal lobes haven't developed, they have very little ability to reason or think logically, and are overwhelmed by sexuality and hormones. This, however, doesn't mean she should be raped, bullied, and treated like trash by her classmates. The one thing that sort of rang false for me is that I found it hard to believe that an attractive girl would have had that hard a time. Still, she was quite a good actress.

The show is up and down, and gets bloated in the middle like all Netflix binges, but I think it gets there in the last few episodes, while maybe not quite achieving the catharsis I was expecting. The best episodes were directed by Gregg Araki, surprisingly. He was able to pull a realistic performance out of Kate Walsh, whereas she struggled through the rest of the series. I'd recommend it, if for no other reason it deeply explores an area of life that people don't like to talk about.

So, is there a rule now that teen shows have to cast at least one child of a celebrity or celebrity couple? The tattoed girl Skye is played by Kevin Bacon and Kyra Sedgwick's daughter. Last summer Robin Williams' spawn was on that canned teen horror show on Freeform.

Sosie Bacon and the guy who plays Tony look too old to be play high schoolers.

That main kid will be bald by the time he's 30.

So why did Miles Heizer's character shoot himself? Or did Tyler shoot him?

All Seems too unresolved, but not really enough left to warrant a second season, unless the next season is 13 reasons why Tyler goes on a shooting spree?

The second season will probably be about Tyler going or attempting a shooting spree, the Bakers' lawsuit, and the stuff with Bryce. I was also curious about was going to happen with Sheri's situation.

There's rumors that Miles Heizer (Alex) and Brandon Flynn (Justin) are in a relationship. Does anyone know if that's true?

Just finished episodes 7 and 8. I agree with whoever said the Gregg Araki episodes were the best. So far they are. Let's see who the rest of the series goes.

Episode 7 - with the tiger mom and the way this episode was written, they should have just pulled Zach out of the closet. In most of the previous episodes he seemed to be the straight jock. In this episode, the insecure virgin who is possibly gay.

Episode 8 - good episode but somewhat unbelievable. Sets us up for the remaining half of the series. I hate poets. After seeing how Gregg shot the poetry group at the library, I'm thinking he does too.

Just a question for anyone in the business. Why does a show with 13 episodes have so many directors? It seems like each block of 2 episodes has a different director. Doesn't that lead to a lack of a clear vision?

R22 AFAIK, all TV series use a set of directors to keep the pace of production going. The next director can prep while the current director is filming. The showrunner is the one who has the overarching vision of the show and has the final say.

[Quote] This, however, doesn't mean she should be raped, bullied, and treated like trash by her classmates. The one thing that sort of rang false for me is that I found it hard to believe that an attractive girl would have had that hard a time. Still, she was quite a good actress.

Good thing they didn't stick with Selena Gomez. I can't picture her being good in a role like this.

Predators don't target people who are strong and likely to fight back effectively. They attack the ones that show signs of weakness already. This is where "thinning the herd" comes from. Whenever a bullied kid commits suicide, you hear, "He was fucked up already, he would have killed himself anyway." Well, not really. The story of "13 Reasons Why" illustrates that's it's not a single attack that finally breaks a person, it's a whole lot of them that finally makes that person unable to function anymore.

I had a friend who was gorgeous, brilliant and talented, and bitches would bully her BECAUSE of that.

[quote]Good thing they didn't stick with Selena Gomez.

I wondered why she was a co-producer. I imagine she bought the filming rights for the book hoping to play the lead but no studio took the bait and she had to step back from the original plan (like Reese Witherspoon with Gone Girl).

I find it interesting though that none of the reasons of why she commited suicide was a mean Queen Bee Heather who was threatened by her. Hannah was very beautiful, a bit shy though. When Justin took interest in her I could have seen some girl being jealous and leading the social media mobbing after the unfortunate pic of her on that slide surfaced. Instead the popular new girl, Jessica who starts school around the same time as Hannah, takes Hannah's "sloppy seconds".

[Quote] I wondered why she was a co-producer. I imagine she bought the filming rights for the book hoping to play the lead but no studio took the bait and she had to step back from the original plan (like Reese Witherspoon with Gone Girl).

Pretty much.

Saw the first episode and it feels like a soapy version of an after school special. There's not a pimple in sight on these kids. The girl who killed herself acted so upbeat while taping her suicide tapes. It just felt like manufactured teen drama.

I understand what you are saying r30, but I still prefer my teens without pimples.

Great acting from the entire cast.

Actually, by the time you get to the end, it feels like every after school special ever written was thrown into this show R30. It somehow manages to stay just above the fray however, and is finally convincing and harrowing.

13 Reasons is like DeGrassi: The Netflix Generation.

I liked Jeff, Alex and Clay the most. Tony was ok too, if not a bit boring.

R35 Tony was creepy.... He looks old like he was held back for couple of years at least.

So, was it Tony who delivered the tapes to the group or was the one receiving the tapes handing them over to the next in line? Tony keeping his eye on Clay so out in the open was a bit creepy. I know he had a purpose but he didn't seem like he's trying to hide at all which could have made him an easy target by the rest of the group willing to make sure the tape confessions never go public.

It was excellent, I was surprised that the two male actors are real life lovers now.

So.. is this the gayest cast ever? At least 3 gay/bi actors!

Hated the Montgomery character, someone needed to slap him.

Tony was really out of place. I wish they would have cast a younger actor for him. His whole getup didn't really seem like he belonged on the show. The only scene I liked of him was the one where he tells Clay he's gay and Clay, being the most oblivious person in existence, is shocked by the reveal. And that was mostly for Clay's reaction.

R41 So the creepy Tony who cruises around offering rides to the cute boy protagonist is revealed as gay? Shocked.

The actor who plays Tony may look 35 but he is actually 25-26.

I thought Tony was cute, but they all looked at least ten years older than they should have been.

After several episodes, I think the writing is somewhat better than the teen soap acting, but the show is already meandering under its need to maintain the suspense. It's kind of a whodunnit mystery with the "victim" as an unreliable narrator, which gives it more complexity than your run-of-the-mill after school specials.

This is a fucking amazing series! So what do you guys think?! Did Tyler shoot Alex? Is Tyler going on a killing spree?

Am I supposed to believe Alex wants to have sex with Jessica? lmfao

R47 There are emo straight boys, but Alex definitely gives off vibes of an emo gay boy. Of course, there is nothing preventing gay boys from attempting to sleep with girls in high school, especially when all of society tells them to go for all.

It took me 3 days to binge watch, When it got to the "stop sign" episode, I was wondering why the hell is Alex freaking out about a fucking stop sign... Did they drunkenly hit someone and the show is referring it to as a stop sign?!? WTF, this is lame...

Then I watched the rest of the next episode and "Oh, I see what you did there...."

I really shouldn't drink so much while binge watching shows, I miss things and/or forget what the hell I watched the prior night.

R49 I can't sit through more than one episode of this show at a time. I find the jumping back and forth in time tiresome, so can't really deal with more than an hour of it.

But, it's really a good show...r50.

R22 For a TV show, a SHOWRUNNER dictates the vision. They hired different directors so they can make the show faster.

Which is why True Detective is the best, Cary Fukunaga directed all 8 episodes.

I just binged watched the entire season last night.

Some of the changes from the book were interesting, others odd. I read the book along with about 25 other top YA novels over the course of about 2 weeks (John Green and such) for research.

The only real issue was that they turned it into Clay's story, rather than Hannah's - the narrative balance swung too far in his direction.

All the interracial relationships in this series would never happen in real life.

This should've been an 8-10 episode limited series. I was expecting the latter episodes to be the courtroom drama and annoyed we will have to wait until the second season for it. This show is getting a ton of positive reviews and buzz on social media so it will be back for a second season.

I love the "Welcome to Your Tape" memes on Twitter.

Some of my favorites:

Hannah: Can i get a McFlurry?

McDonalds' Employee: McFlurry machine broke.

Hannah: Welcome to your tape.

----

Hannah: Can I get 3 sweet and sour sauces?

McDonald's worker: *gives 2*

Hannah: Welcome to your tape...

----

Hannah: *sneezes*

Friend: *ignores and doesn't say bless you*

Hannah: welcome to your tape

----

Hannah: can I have a coke?

Waiter: is Pepsi ok???

Hannah: welcome to your tape...

----

*Facetime Unavailable*

Hannah: Welcome to your tape

----

Hannah: Can I borrow a pencil?

Kid: Sorry, this is my only one

Hannah: Welcome to your tape

Hannah wasn't that sensitive, r56.

Couldn't get past the second episode. Hannah was insufferable. Writing was terrible.

R58 Truthfully, I only kept watching because Clay was cute. lol But after you get used to the woe-is-me Hannah voice over, there are some angles that are interesting, like evolution of the parents' grief/anger and the dynamics among the boys: Clay vs. Alex, Clay vs. Justin.

i liked tony. thought he was cute.

The first episode didn't grab me all that much. Not a good sign.

Teen suicide premise is old as the hills. With the narration of the dead girl. Meh.

It's a great series, but for me, and I guess that's intentional, Hannah was just a stupid bitch who couldn't see the that she had her happy ending right under her nose, Clay. But then isn't that the general message of sucide being stupid and suicidal people not being able to see how much their lives are still worth living?

R62 I am only half way through. I have to pace myself because I don't want to overdose on all the teen angst. I actually find the little bit of the parents' drama more interesting then the teen drama. I am already losing track of who did what to Hannah (maybe I just don't care). But the boys are good-looking enough for be to get to the end, eventually.

Finished the series and thought it was just okay. Some 30 year old 'teens' in that shit (Bryce, Tony)

And then at the end there was a short documentary and the first sentence revealed it began as a young adult novel.

That is the perfect description: A thirteen episode young adult novel.

It's like Nicholas Sparks for teens.

Is a second series scheduled ?

I knew nothing of the book.

The last episode played around a lot with the gun theme. Would it be Justin ? Tyler ?? Bryce ???

I was expecting a build up to someone killing Bryce as the season finale ....... and a potential season two picking up with a murder mystery

Upthread, someone mentions a second season about the court drama. But I'd be surprised if the case went to court considering the recording of the lax guidance counselor ('Move on')

I thought both lead characters were likeable. Hannah less so as she began experiencing the tragic events of her life as they al unravled.

My 16 year old niece had a brilliant comment IMHO. She said it had some elements of value but that depression is not about bad things happening to you. What she means is that depression is way more internally-driven than externally.

^^Exactly.

{quote] What she means is that depression is way more internally-driven than externally.

In a way yes, but there needs to be an external condition that creates the internal reaction, and programming, of depression.

For example Low self esteem comes from being told by others (and through experiences), for years and years, that you are a worthless piece of shit and that what you want doesn't matter because your purpose in life is to make other people happy (and there is nothing worse in life than to be a selfish bitch or bastard taking care of herself or himself to be happy).

Once a person is brainwashed long enough that person filters and translates outside conditions with the goal to maintain the "half glass empty" belief system and push the mental state of depression further.

[quote]What she means is that depression is way more internally-driven than externally.

Depression itself is a state of inner conflict of two sides pulling in opposite directions.

- Conscious mind: I want this, but I am told that I am not supposed to want this / it's considered bad manners to want this / people will hate me for wanting this, etc. ... Subconscious mind: Just go for it and do/take what you want and what makes you happy.

- Conscious mind: I'm a fuck-up .... Subconscious mind: No, you are not a fuck-up.

- Conscious mind: I hate this person, because ... Subconscious mind: Oh, get over it! What you are doing is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.

Hannah had a good relationship with Clay and seemed to have feelings for him... why didn't she lean on him more for support? She didn't tell him anything that was happening to her -- she kept their interactions to casual banter and basically only talked to him at work or when she ran into him.

Or why didn't she talk to Tony? She trusted him enough to give him the second copy of her tapes. We didn't really get any sense of how they interacted when she was alive... were they friends?

And maybe it's because I'm not a teenage girl, but I didn't really get why she took the "best ass" thing so hard. She was only one of many names on the list and she was a "best" not a "worst"... it just seemed like something to be laughed off or eye rolled, not a huge humiliation.

I liked the show a lot (some episodes *much* more than others).

I have really enjoyed reading all the opinions here, and waited to read this thread until I had finished the series in full because of spoilers, etc.

This is the first show I have binge watched in a long time--so to me that definitely says something about it, that it had that ability to "hook" me in.

It definitely had flaws: for me it kind of lost its way a bit after episode 5 of 6 (shortly after the winter formal episode) and only found its way/stride again (mostly) in part of ep. 12 and in episode 13.

That last episode was surprisingly resonant/powerful and very, very sad. Difficult to watch, but it was a very good episode.

I wish it was a "limited series" too, and that they had stuck with 8-10 episodes (the material seemed "stretched thin" at times) or at least resolved *everything* in the story in the 13 episodes--I think that each individual episode would have been much stronger for it, as they wouldn't have been simultaneously trying to fulfill the dual purpose of completing season 1 while also setting up season 2; I think this led to some story weaknesses and contrivances.

Overall though, a good show. Even though I didn't love everything about Hannah, I really liked the girl they cast to play her (thought she did a great job) and I loved the guy who played Clay; he was great on this show and *very* naturally likable (which is a hard quality to find/cast).

I also liked the actors playing Justin, Tyler, Alex, and the two cheerleading girls, Sherri and Jessica. The Asian girl playing Courtney was great too, as was Clay's dad. Tony was way too old looking--I thought he was just *visiting* his old high school at first😬--but (at least) he still acted well. Also thought Derek Luke was good as the morally grey/hard to read guidance counselor.

Not a perfect series, but very good in a lot of ways; dealt with an *extremely* difficult and ugly issue head on and did a good job with it, while still managing to (mostly) be very entertaining.

Terrible. Can't get through it. And why is Kate Walsh still working?

[quote]And maybe it's because I'm not a teenage girl, but I didn't really get why she took the "best ass" thing so hard. She was only one of many names on the list and she was a "best" not a "worst"... it just seemed like something to be laughed off or eye rolled, not a huge humiliation.

She had maybe three friends at that point. Her friendship with Jessica (who was listed as worst ass) was on very shaky ground. She knew Jessica would turn on her, and she did.

R71 Hannah said being named "best ass" put a target on her. Meaning, more guys started noticing her and openly checking her out. Bryce grabbed her ass in the liquor store because of it.

Does Dylan Minnette (Clay) remind anyone else of Brian Benben (Dream On, Private Practice)?

Also, despite the show's subject matter, I had a good chuckle out of those Twitter memes.

Me too, [R76]. It was a very good but very serious show--those memes added a little fun and levity.

Looks like a Netflix is going to do a second season -- they've already gotten a writer's room going and Ross Butler (Zack) isn't returning to Riverdale next year.

Well it made me both thrilled that not only am I not in high school, but that I don't have kids so I never have to set foot in a high school again. There was a bit of the after school special, but I also feel like if I had kids I would sit them down and be like which one of these things is happening in right now that you're aware of.

I didn't think Hannah started out unstable, immature then bullied. And what others have said R71 , being voted best anything gives people expectations. There really isn't much laughing off best ass. Especially because there's no shortage of boys who want to evaluate for themselves. See Bryce. And since the school counselor didn't think anything could be done about a school rapist without having a name, i doubt there would be any help for verbal harassment. Why should any teenager or kid be put in a situation at school where they have to fend off negative attention?

I liked Tony and even though it would have bee totally wrong for the tone of the show, I kept expecting them to reveal that he was a 'teen angel' who killed himself in the 50s.

Clay was really cute, that's what kept me going with the series. Why are they making season 2? What's there to talk about? Another suicide?

[quote]I didn't think Hannah started out unstable, immature then bullied.

At the beginning she seemed so snarky and confident (when meeting Clay for the first time). Plus she played with Justin (luring him into the school bus so that he would ask her out and then leaving him in the bus. To me it felt like a very strange introduction to the female lead who spirals down to killing herself. I mean I get that the show is showing that she was an upbeat, confident girl and outside circumstances pushed her into a corner where she believed suicide is her only option, but still it felt a bit insincere.

I think the best ass title alone wasn't that much of a big deal, but Bryce grabbing her ass and her getting that nagging suspicion of the guys talking behind their back got the ball rolling. It made her self conscious.

I believe Ross Butler's role in 13 Reasons Why was way more interesting and showed more debth than what the writers on Riverdale could come up with for Reggie Mantle. Though it will be interesting to see if that remains the case in season two of 13 Reasons Why.

Oh Hannah. High School was much worse pour Moi.

[quote] I liked Tony and even though it would have bee totally wrong for the tone of the show, I kept expecting them to reveal that he was a 'teen angel' who killed himself in the 50s.

Exactly what I thought. He was way too old and always seem to magically turn up at the moment Clay needed him. Did we ever find out how new student Hannah even knew Tony? Why did she give him the tapes? No relationship is actually shown.

I just watched the first two episodes. My main thought is that I feel like I am too old for this show and I am "only" 29. Definitely geared toward teenagers. That said it is appealing enough, I am intrigued enough to keep watching and it helps I find the lead guy adorable.

It's funny to see the comments above me because I already felt Tony seemed like this weird deus ex machina rather than some actual character. I see based on those replies that doesn't change.

No offense to the actor who plays Alex but it is LAUGHABLE he is supposed to be straight. I kept expecting for the "obviously" he is gay thing but they actually have him at the center of some love triangle. How did everyone during filming not realize this character obviously reads as gay.

I believe that's why the show is for teenagers, because for them it seems logical that a guy like Alex could be straight. He's just a sensitive artist.

Give Kate Walsh an Emmy already!

Lol, I just checked out the subreddit for this show. The highest upvoted comments for episode 2 and 3 was everyone was confused that Alex is straight.

For what it is worth (probably not much lol) Miles Heizer and Brandon Flynn have denied they are dating.

R89 Don't need to be dating to be fucking...

It's also funny since neither one of them is out right?

I will say Brandon Flynn was completely believable in his role as a straight guy, unlike Miles.

R91 Brandon was completely believable as a douche bro, but I didn't see any chemistry between him and the girl. He seems nice enough in real life without being pretentious like Miles.

I guess given the demographic this isn't surprising, but it was Netflix's most popular based on social media.

Alright, now I am through episode 9.

I think overall the show has gotten better since it moved along, or maybe I've just grown more used to it.

Courtney having gay parents and also being gay which makes her really self-conscious about it is an interesting angle I've never seen explored before.

Tony still seems like a completely absurd character. His look, his ability to be everywhere, his existing to to help our main character see reason. He is the Wise Negro archetype slightly changed. Though I did laugh at their "you do know I'm gay" exchange, because it actually felt like real dialog for once.

Dylan Minnette is great in this role, great find for the show.

The last episode ended with Jessica's rape. I get Hannah froze up and didn't know what to do, which sure, but I think some ownership would have been a wise writing move. Part of the reason the incident probably depressed her so much is because she never did anything about it while she was alive and it always ate on her. She is just as guilty as Justin there. That tape really calls out both of them for just allowing this thing to happen.

There are so many tattoos at this highschool, is that really how highschool is now? Though I remember DL obsession Dylan Geick has tons of tattoos and he is still in high school.

[quote]All the interracial relationships in this series would never happen in real life.

Yeah, while I find it cool that the popular, hot girls at this mainly white school are black, sadly I don't think that is realistic at all.

Also the dude that plays Bryce (Justin Prentice) had a hot beefy ass. Felt a little bad paying attention to that in what was meant to be a traumatic scene, but I'm only human.

He also looks so damn old for a highschooler.

Zach was hot af.

I actually thought that the casting director for this show pretty much did a great job all around. As someone upthread mentioned, Dylan Minnette is a special standout and was *excellent* in this series. A really great find.

The casting of Hannah, Jessica, Justin, Courtney, Bryce, Tyler, Zach, the school guidance counselor, the principal, etc. was great too.

The only cast members I wasn't wild about were the goth girl (Kevin Bacon's daughter), Tony (though I'm not *totally* sure if that's because of the annoying elements of the character or the actor himself--he wasn't *awful* but he looked 10 years too old for the role...), and Clay's (Dylan's) mom--I just thought that the actress who played her was kind of weak in general and overacted most of her scenes, which really took me out of the show when she was onscreen...

Yeah as awful as Bryce was, he looked good with his clothes off and we saw a lot of him.

He was like a hotter Karofsky.

Alright, finished. I get some of the posts about wishing this was a limited series. You can tell they are taking a plotline from a finite novel and trying to turn it into an ongoing series. Lots of things didn't get conclusions in order to leave plot for a season two, some "dramatic cliffhangers" had to suddenly be introduced (Jeff gets a gun! Alex gets a gun! Tyler gets a gun! You are all getting guns!!!). And the transition to these very serious ongoing plotlines to Clay and Tony riding off into the sunset was fairly jarring.

That said, damn. The suicide scene seriously hurt to watch, as it should. The complaints that this glorifies teen suicide I think are bullshit, they didn't shy away from how ugly and painful it was and showing the aftermath of the pain of her parents. Kudos to the show for that moment, I think if anything that will give some kids pause who would be considering that.

I feel like Clay doing absolutely nothing wrong is a cop out. It's okay to have the protagonist get some dirt on him, but the show towed the line in the episode how he did everything a reasonable person could do and Hannah had to scream at him over and over to leave. It is a lot of build to Clay's tape with other characters foreshadowing there is something there, but of course there isn't.

It should be noted the last few episodes really went into melodrama. You go from fairly normal highschool problems to two rapes and a friend getting killed. I went with it, but objectively it was a bit "now lets REALLY up the stakes"

Still, bitching aside I enjoyed watching it and thought it was emotionally moving. It featured some good performances that have been highlighted in other posts. Plus seriously tackling teen suicide is something that should happen, good that we have platforms like Netflix that allows for a topic like this not to be shyed away from.

I like your review, [R99]! What you said is pretty much exactly how I felt about the series (some misgivings but overall really enjoyed/appreciated what they did with it) but you said it all way better than I could have!

The weird thing was that Tony didn't have much physical chemistry with his actual boyfriend (and the actor playing the boyfriend was really trying, he was staring with these moon-y eyes at all times), but seemed to have a lot with Clay.

I wonder if it was just that the actor was uncomfortable playing gay. It took me out of it a little.

Yeah, [R101], and going with the fact that Tony was supposed to be in high school (and this was a small town too) the boyfriend looked/acted much older and more sophisticated than Tony, and also seemed new and out of place in the town.

Was he actually a Grindr or Craig's List hookup?

Brad definitely seemed like a college student. But it didn't help that I thought the actor looked younger than Tony.

I thought Dylan Minnette, Devin Druid (Tyler), Miles Heizler, Alisha Boe, and Michelle Ang were passible as high school students. Maybe also Tommy Dorfman and Brandon Flynn if you squinted. But the rest, nope. I get that Skye is supposed to look like she had a rough life, but Sosie Bacon looked as old as her parents.

I'm up to episode 9 and find this a bit too ponderous. Dylan Minnete is adorable and I remember him from Saving Grace as a really great kid actor too, but the fact Clay wouldn't just binge listen to all the tapes is a bit hard for me to fathom. Also his ridiculously stupid parents are very poorly written. He keys someone's car? They have no reaction. He cuts school and comes home bleeding? He gets a hug. Not believable. This is pure fantasy along the lines of Stranger Things meets Pretty Little Liars. I like the pretty boys like Clay, Justin and Montgomery and will finish the series but I agree this could've been told in far fewer episodes. Some of this really drags so I'm hoping for a big payoff.

And the actor playing Bryce needs to enjoy his hair while he still has it. Don't think we didn't see that combover.

[quote]I'm up to episode 9 and find this a bit too ponderous

8 and 9, which I think were the episodes Gregg Araki directed were the high water mark for me.

R52, agreed. True Detective season two sucked though because Cary left and they chose different directors for the episodes.

And Father Time obviously found where Keiko Agena has been hiding from him and gotten his revenge.

Telling someone to "move on" after they've been raped is kind of a bad idea. Having to pretend something that hurt, terrified and humiliated you didn't happen when it definitely did happen doesn't promote mental health. Also, if someone rapes somebody and there are no negative consequences, that teaches them that it's an okay thing to do and chances are they'll keep doing it, not to mention encouraging other people to do it too (see Fox News Channel.)

I agree that the guy who played Tony didn't seem to have much chemistry with Henry Zaga, of course he also didn't have chemistry with Tommy Dorfmann who played Ryna.

Not that counselor handled it well r109, of course he didn't, but in his defense as he explained to Hannah he was ready to go the cops about this if that is what she was ready to do. She didn't want that to happen, didn't want to name the assailant, so that does tie his hands.

[quote]but the fact Clay wouldn't just binge listen to all the tapes is a bit hard for me to fathom.

Omg! I couldn't agree more. I found it so infuriating of him throwing these silly temper tantrums, vowing / threatening to stop listening, while demanding to know what's on his tape. I almost expected Hannah to say something like "Clay, you're a nice guy, but you are also a whiny bitch ... Clay, this is your tape!".

From my understanding is that in the book Clay does binge listen to the tapes, but since this is a television show and they need of course need drama and character interactions each episode, they can't do it that way.

Apparently, Clay's own tape is also a lot earlier in the book.

I'm on episode 5. I'm having a difficult time believing that a character like Hannah would kill herself. Hannah is much to self aware, introspective, and intelligent. She's also very pretty. A girl like this knows that there is life after high school. A girl like that has a million dates while in college, travels the world, gets a well paying gig, and makes tons of money and completely forgets about high school. If her character had shown signs of deep depression, or another mental health issue, I'd buy it, but Hannah was way too together to kill herself. She was also very resilient. Kids that get bullied, usually get bullied because of their looks, their sexuality, or because they're poor. That's the truth. No one would have bullied a girl like Hannah. And if they had, a girl like Hannah would not have given one single fuck over it.

And I forgot to add, that Hannah and Clay, were the real cool kids in this whole series. Here's something I've observed: authentically cool kids know they're cool before anyone else figures it out. Even if they're loners, they survive. They understand that they are different and they're OK with it. They also usually have a tremendous amount of self confidence, which Hannah clearly had. These types do not usually take their own lives. They move on from high school and make their own way through the world.

No way would Hannah have killed herself. Whoever wrote this got it very wrong. Sorry, but it's true.

r114, r115. Watch it until the bitter end. Then you may have a better understanding.

The series was like Beverly Hills 90210 but suddenly explicit at times. It was frustratingly paced and also hard to sympathize with Hannah. To place the onus on 12 other people for her actions would be pretty lame in real life. She should have taped a confession and sent it to the police. Hard to relate to Clay and his refusal to listen to the tapes immediately. People just did unbelievable things on the show. The actors were doing their best and I would've loved to see the same cast in a more realistic depiction of a similar tale. I particularly hope that this furthers Dylan Minnette's career. I thought he did a great job with what was at times, a difficult role.

The big "I'm reinventing myself!" haircut really didn't flatter her.

R118 True! She looked like Roseannee Roseannadanna.

R118, there seems to be some trope that when teen girls or women who are young adults go through a period of emotional turmoil, they chop of their hair.

I'm going to attempt to finish the series today. I have what appears to be a sadistic spring cold, and plan on spending my day in bed.

I'm still of the belief the Hannah would not have committed suicide. Perhaps I didn't explain myself well enough upthread, but the bottom line is that so far in the series, Hannah is too mature, and well adjusted to kill herself. That's why viewers can't reconcile the act of suicide with Hannah, and the guilt legacy that she left behind for her alleged tormentors. It is almost impossible to feel sorry for Hannah, because AGAIN, girls like Hannah do not kill themselves. Her self victimization does not gel with her self awareness and presence of mind while you listen to her narrative.

Let me put it this way: a girl like Hannah would not have killed herself. Instead, she would have written a best selling novel about her high school experience, and would have sold the rights to the screenplay, that would have eventually found its way to Netflix.

Wait until you get to episode 12. It will make more sense.

[quote][R118], there seems to be some trope that when teen girls or women who are young adults go through a period of emotional turmoil, they chop of their hair.

Of course, but it just seemed to really accentuate how round her cheeks are. I'm sure the actress is going to follow every starlet ever into an eating disorder.

R121, the actress is very pretty at her weight depicted through the series. She looks very much like a thinner, younger Adele, with long hair. Hopefully she won't succumb to the pressures of weight loss in this fucking town, but let's face it, she most probably will.

Americans loves to eat, yet do not want to see people of normal size on the silver screen.

They've confirmed the S2 that we all knew was coming.

I hope they don't contrive a way to keep Hannah around.

They've said they are going to add in more flashbacks so we see Hannah more.

[quote]So Hannah will definitely be in season 2? Oh absolutely. I think one of the things that is still hanging out there is this question of is someone responsible for Hannah’s death? Is the school responsible? Who is responsible, if anyone is? One way we’ll explore that question is through the trial and also through all of these kids reflecting on where they are a few months down the road and what other secrets are being uncovered. That’s going to take us into the past, into Hannah’s story. We’re going to get some new context for events we already know about and we’re going to see a lot of things we hadn’t even heard about yet that fill in some really interesting gaps in our understanding of who Hannah Baker was and what her life was.

Plus this made me role my eyes

[quote]Are you all done with cassette tapes? The tapes are still obviously on people’s minds, but there is a different sort of analog technology that plays a hugely important role in season 2. So the cassette tapes aren’t at the center of it — those two boxes of tapes are still hanging around and matter to people — but there will be a new piece of technology for 13-year-olds to Google and try to understand what it was.

Are you really going to add in similar plot device again?

They really are going to milk this concept as long as possible.

R116, I did, and I watched it twice. Still don't get it. I guess it means I am old.

My boss's daughter, who is ten, asked her mother for their parental controls PIN number for "Netflx" and her mother wanted to know why. She told she wanted to watch "13 Reasons Why" because all of the kids in her class had seen it and were talking about it. Her mother said "No" and after reading this thread I understand why.

There was suddenly a lot of handwringing in the media about it after it had been out for a month. What's funny is that on a few podcasts that I listen to, the hosts who were parents of teenagers were talking about how none of their kids had been interested until schools started sending home warning letters.

Thanks for posting that article/update, [R124]!

Which two characters (actors) are really in a relationship?

Which people in the universe give a fuck?

I got stuck at episode 7 and wondering if I should continue for 6 more episodes of this meandering and morose melodrama. The only subplot I am interested in is how Hannah's parents are dealing with the loss of their only daughter, and this plot is given around 5 minutes of airtime if at all in an episode. Sadly, I don't give a bleep about any of the teenagers. Clay is cute but there's really not a lot going on in his head... just a lot of guilt and frustration. The rest are just typical brats you find in any old high school drama.

What happened to Ryan? He wasn't in the final episode. I can't remember...

[quote]There was suddenly a lot of handwringing in the media about it after it had been out for a month. What's funny is that on a few podcasts that I listen to, the hosts who were parents of teenagers were talking about how none of their kids had been interested until schools started sending home warning letters.

A couple of weeks back the local news in my area reported how the school district was sending warning letters and directing people to suicide organizations because of the show. I have a friend whose wife retired from teaching middle school English. She has read a lot of YA literature. She said read the book one summer. But, she never suggested it to the school because she figured it would get shot down as an addition on the reading list.

I finished watching it tonight and really liked it, for the most part. Dylan Minnette had been a standout for me in Awake a few years ago. He has a Logan Lerman quality to him. There were times I grew tired of his character's self-righteousness, but there were other times I just adored him, such as when he showed up to Jessica's party 2 hours before everyone else.

I felt bad for Tyler, who was so widely despised by everyone. It wouldn't surprise me if he goes on a shooting spree in season 2.

I really liked Alex, and I actually bought him as a not very manly straight kid. There are lots of them out there. I hope his character survives.

Will Alex accept his real sexuality in season 2?

Bullshit series. They take a serious topic such as suicide and glamorize and dramatize it to ridiculous extent. All the bad things that can happen fall on poor Hannah. EVERYONE is out to get poor her. There is something called real depression in teens which is what they should have addressed. Bullying is an issue but they added a lot of other things like her parents fighting, her losing money, repeatedly getting herself into iffy situations. No girl in her situation would crash uninvited to a school bully's party who raped her friend. They shuld've stuck to the social media bullying aspect but they had to make it trashy melodramatic. I liked the side characters. The gay dad angle, the Hispanic guy and his lover, the boy with an abusive step father and loser of a mom was interesting. Do the teens really have so much access to booze? Where are the parents don't they notice? Unbelievable piece of trash junk

[quote]Do the teens really have so much access to booze?

In many of these upper-middle class type communities, yes, highschoolers do have have access to alcohol and other drugs and parties are common place.

I remember there was a recent This American Life podcast about a highschooler talking about the party life at his high school. One interesting note is they caught up to him when he started college, and he thought the parties there were lamer than they were in highschool.

It was only a matter of time before something like this happened.

i just finished watching it.. I thought the actor who played Tony was cute. yes he may of looked to old for a high schooler but most shows that depict high school casts have people who look to old for high school. Though i kept wondering what his connection to Hannah was. He didn't have a tape about him and we never saw any interaction with him and Hannah . i hope that gets more explored in the second season. i also think Tony liked Clay in a romantic sense. I think this why he seemed to be popping up all the time. The character i had the hardest time with besides obviously Bryce was Courtney. In some ways she seemed to worst of the lot. She was mean and she seemed to enjoy stirring the pot, particularly at the dance. Then she was so heartless in the final episodes. i get maybe she had to act that way to hide her sexuality, but man she seemed to go the extra mile to be vicious. i am also surprised Alex would be accepted into the cool club of jocks. the only thing i could think of was that he was doing their homework or something. Overall even though show sometimes went too melodramatic and occasionally turned into the 90210 mode of all the characters having horrible problems, i thought the show was good. The stop sign sub plot seemed unnecessary , but i guess it was the only way to include the character of Sherry so that their would be 13 reasons why the suicide happened. hannah did seem like the modern Kelly Taylor with so many bad things happening to her, but like i said overall the show was good.

Clay has a sexy baritone voice, anyone notice that?

[quote]i am also surprised Alex would be accepted into the cool club of jocks. the only thing i could think of was that he was doing their homework or something.

I thought Alex should have been more best friends with Clay. They are both smart/sensitive guys. Clay had few friends, but the girls loved him. I really wanted to see Hannah and Clay become a couple in love.

I get why teen/tweens are into it but I felt like it was trying too hard. Like the author was set on "13" because it's unlucky or catchy and had to pile on things happening to Hannah. It became- oh, of course that happens to you now too.

I found Hannah very un likable and while I'm sad for anyone committing suicide, she played like a manipulator plotting her broadway show - not a pure victim. Leaving a tape for Clay - which meant he got all the other tapes too - was cruel. He didn't do anything wrong, his tape says so -- and since he's the rescue, sensitive type - let's dump all the baggage from the other tapes on him and leave him mentally racked over not being able to rescue her.

Even without her over the top dramatics, the minute she stayed in the closet during the rape she became a perpetrator- not a victim. Can't use your cell phone and call 911? Can't run out screaming bloody murder before Bryce can even get up off her? I know the trend right now is to make every male a sleaze bag dude bro but lots of guys are decent and there were plenty of people in that house who would have ran into that room and pummeled Bryce no matter how popular he was. Clay, the kid who hadn't left yet on his death drive - plenty of people would have done the opposite of Justin if Hannah had tried at all. No though, she does nothing and says nothing - saves it for her dramatic debut. But she's the victim?

Oh, I definitely noticed, r140. That was why I compared him to Brian Benben at r76; both short, decent looking guys with surprisingly sexy baritone voices.

Supposedly, Clay has a nervous breakdown in Season 2.

I really found it difficult and at time impossible to sympathize with Hannah. She started out seeming to have a personality, but quickly became a cypher. It's hard to care when someone who has no recognizable human characteristics is treated inhumanely. And I get that teenagers (amongst others) frequently behave illogically, but there was no emotional through line for this girl that made any kind of realistic sense whatsoever. I also thought the lead actress looked pregnant, which was distracting. Maybe the book is better? Totally agree with the poster upthread who flagged Tony as being a turn on the 'magic negro' trope. I don't understand how it took Clay so long to get through the tapes. Nearly every time we saw him in the present day he was plugged into the walkman listening. So he's listening to these 13hrs of audio non-stop but it takes him weeks to get through them? Why didn't Hannah's parents blame themselves at all? Why did no one have siblings we met? Why was the good guidance counselor fired? How did Hannah's broke parents manage to buy a house and a pharmacy in a new town before they moved? Where the fuck were they supposed to be living? Sky said Clay was 5'2" so how fucking tiny in real world inches is the actor playing Tony? Also, Dylan Minnette's hair bothers me and I thought most of the casting was good.

Gay?

[quote]Maybe the book is better?

I have wondered about the book. Most reviews of it are positive. Articles comparing the show to the book have mentioned the changes and I remember one article said that Jeff wasn't in the book.

May 18th.

Still not sure how they're going to make a second season out of this, but we'll see.

It was fun to watch but kind of over the top. I don't understand how some people found it triggering. I was a super emo teen who even cut and contemplated suicide constantly but it didn't disturb me really.

[quote]Still not sure how they're going to make a second season out of this, but we'll see.

They were sort of hinting that the creepy peeping tom photographer guy was going to have a school shooting.

They had originally announced that season was going to drop in March, but the fact that March came and went and it kind of seems like they didn't want to drop it that close to the Parkland shooting.

Alex's IG story

Alan Sepinwall speaks his mind after watching Season 2.

[quote]’13 Reasons Why’ Has No Reason To Be Back For Season Two

[quote]But even that feels tainted by the hoops season two jumps through to keep Katherine Langford prominent throughout.

Correct.

I mean, I haven't seen the season yet, but Hannah's story is finished. Tell some other story.

The previews make it seem like the ghost of Hannah is likely to appear

I've only seen the first two episodes, but I swear, it's like Clay has a brain tumor or something.

Nice that they added a new gay character, but they could've at least found someone attractive.

Oh wait, I forgot about Caleb, Tony's trainer

This season is, if possible, even more fucking grim.

Wow, with everything that's happened in the news I'm surprised they kept that season ender.

Please no spoilers yet, although I can guess. They weren't be subtle.

They had announced a release date in March, and then seemed to have pushed it back because of...news. Unfortunately, they'd have to wait a long time to avoid that kind of...news.

is Dylan Minette still being held responsible for the whiny girl's death?

Binged season 2. It was pretty good.

Is there a spoiler thread for 13 Reasons Why season 2?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

i almost feel bad for the show's creators and writers. they are constantly being "slammed" by the twitter twat mob.

I am 26 and was left feeling physically sick from that scene.

Controversy means publicity.

The controversy over the first season led to it being such a hit.

"Sosie Bacon"

It's not that bad.

I’m finding season 2 a little dull.

And the cast is so young that the one year that has passed since the first series shows in their faces and bodies.

The reviews for season 2 weren't great, why I keep putting off starting it.

The first few episodes are pretty slow going, but it picks up after about episode 4. They also did a really good job at redeeming a lot of the characters.

Tyler getting raped with the mop handle made me sick to my stomach.

Will there be a season 3?

Those bomber jackets that some kids wear: are they part of the school uniform? Why don’t all the students wear them?

I have fallen asleep twice watching season 2.

R174 They are letterman jackets and they are usually worn by students who participate in sports.

I don't get Alex and Zack...are they baiting us with all the homoertoic scenes between the two?? And then they have Miles "can't play straight" Heizer get a boner while they were wrestling???

Sosie Bacon is ugly. She and little Matilda Ledger could play sisters in a TV show or movie.

I gave up after one of the middle Reasons. She seemed way too together to let silly shit like what happened (rape aside, which she rather stupidly -- inexplicably stupidly considering how smart she is -- shows up for) send her to suicide. Just didn't buy it. How's Season 2? Jumping the shark?

I love the second season (it got a bit teen soap drama with the Zach reveal and the whole love triangle with Jessica, Justin, and Alex), but I am a bit surprised that they seem to want it to go on with the cliffhanger-esque ending since they told Hannah's story. Like, will Tyler be that much compelling as the new "Hannah" and the gang trying to save him from himself?

Neverless I thinkt he whole cast did a great job with the second season. Ross Butler was smart sticking with this show (though given how little Riverdale uses Reggie he probably could have done both with a little bit of tweaking his schedule, maybe).

Which episode has the gay male rape?

Are you kidding, r157? Keon Motakhaveri is adorable.

It was the last episode of the season R181

"Part of me wants to say: Watch the leather, homo! ... and the other part wants me to throw him against the locker and kiss him"

Wilson Cruz (My So-Called Life) has a big guest role in the second season (he plays the lawyer representing Hannah's parents). Also Robert Gant and Anthony Rapp guest star in the season (one plays one of the gay dads and the other plays a priest).

Third season announcement.

[quote] “I felt a lot of responsibility to portray the pain accurately, and humiliation one can go through when they are assaulted in this way,” he explained, “especially with the stigma around sexual assault with men.”

[quote] “Especially this age of toxic and fragile masculinity,” he continued. “I think it plays a big part in this idea of men being raped, it isn’t something people think about a lot.”

Yes, the rape scene was shocking, but 13 Reasons Why isn't exactly a show you watch for its feel-good entertainment value.

Spoiler Alert

- Hannah's parents sue the school for not preventing Hannah being bullied even though they knew about it. Hannah's parents lose the court case.

- Jessica comes forward and officially accuses Bryce of raping her. He gets three months probation. Justin, who confirms her claims, gets 6 months probation for being a co conspiritor. Bryce transfers to a different school and doesn't give a shit who he leaves behind even though some of his mates stuck their necks out for him and did some pretty criminal shit to protect him.

- Justin struggles with heroin addiction the whole season and even though the Jensen family is starting the legal procedure to adopt him at the end of the season he still shoots up heroin by injecting it between his toes.

- Alex, after his failed suicide attempt, struggles with memory loss the whole season and gets pretty fucked about not being able to be sexually active.

- Tyler, oh boy! Now that dude has so much shit going at him: Gets some new friends, goes punk, teaches his new friend how to shoot (shoots a bird!), has an embarrassing first date, the kids at school find out about it and humiliate him, he vandalizes school property, posts it on social media, loses his new friends, gets send to a camp, comes back and acts like a robot until he gets raped, then goes back home pretends everything's fine to his parents and goes for his secret stash of weapons to get on a killing spree at a school dance.

I find it rather hypocritical that people clutch their pearls because of the rape scene. Like what did they expect, uplifting musical numbers? 13 Reasons Why is about fucked up teenage drama.

This is a better version, r9.

Anthony Rapp and his whiny voice, ugh. Reason enough not to watch for me.

**** Spoiler Alert ****

Why don’t they just pull Alex out of the closet. He can’t get hard watching straight porn, yet he gets a boner wrestling with Zach when he was pissed off. Zach also seems gay. Just make them boyfriends.

Wilson Cruz was really good. Hopefully he will be back next years since Clay’s mom started a law firm with him.

I liked the focus that nothing was as expected. The kids took drugs and their parents didn’t know. Hannah left her old school because she was a bully. Tony is on probation yet is also the person sought for beating a homophobe senseless. Next season should be good.

[quote]He can’t get hard watching straight porn, yet he gets a boner wrestling with Zach when he was pissed off.

Is his boner just something you noticed, or did they make it a plot point?

R192 - it was a plot point.

Alex getting a boner is featured in this fanmade Alex & Zach shipping clip. Around the 1:21 min. mark.

Why is Alex semi-crippled?

Have you watched the show? He shot himself in the head R195

[quote]Have you watched the show? He shot himself in the head [R195]

I must have forgotten that. Or slept through it. Thanks, r196.

I'm late but I had some issues with Season 2.

Ghost Hannah was a lame and cheesy plot device to try to keep the actress more involved.

A lot of the court room scenes were poorly written, and some of the reveals like a Zach/Hannah relationship don't really make sense.

How did Justin who was best friends with these people for years never know about the club house?

The ending of season 2 was just jaw droppingly stupid. A shooter comes with the intent of opening fire on the school and the gang decides it is very important that the cops not be called to save people's lives and that their 17 year old selves are very qualified to handle it on their own. It also makes the whole season arc of Tyler being a budding school shooter feel pointless, since the entire thing is just diffused by Clay in a couple minutes.

I will say, Brandon Flynn continues to be a great actor, and it was smart of the writers to pair him up with Dylan Minette. Alisha Boe is given a lot to handle this season, and unfortunately was not as strong of a talent. And Miles Heizer robotic line readings continued to be robotic.

[quote]Brandon Flynn continues to be a great actor, and it was smart of the writers to pair him up with Dylan Minette.

Pair him up as in, they're boyfriends in season 2?

[quote]Miles Heizer robotic line readings continued to be robotic.

"Robotic." Is that better or worse than his former only note, "smug"?

[quote]Pair him up as in, they're boyfriends in season 2?

If only. He starts living with Clay and eventually gets adopted by his parents.

But they are probably the two strongest young actors, so it is good to see them share a lot of scenes.

I'm in the midst of Season 2, which is decent. What I really like about this story is how they handle LGBT characters, especially the gay fathers who have a daughter who is struggling with her own lesbianism. It's nice to see parents exist in this relatively normal world without stereotypical quirks or eccentricities (Modern Family). A huge thumbs up for Gregg Araki directing some of the first episodes with references to Joy Division and other bands often see in his earlier work.

The best episodes in season 1 and 2 were directed by Gregg Araki. Too bad he only did 2 each season.

Ahh...I'm mid way through and I keep hoping he'll do more episodes.

I'm pissed off that they didn't use Courtney and dead Hannah lesbian relationship to make an episode on lesbian bed death. It would have put a whole new perspective on LBD.

3 episodes into season 3 and outside of a few scenes with Tony I'm noticing a lack of gay.

R206 are you serious? It’s not a gay series. It’s a series that has many characters, with most being straight, like in real life.

Except there's a ton of straight sex and it's just annoying.

Because the majority of the characters are straight. How would there be gay sex when most of the TEENAGE characters are straight? Or closeted?

Shame Tommy Dorfman isn't in this season, but there's rumors he may be back for the last season.

Who is Tommy Dorfman?