Buffy the Vampire Slayer Cast Reunites for 20th Reunion

Also Seth Green - that's the definition of vocal fry, right?

I'm proud to say I skipped this show when it was on tv.

It was one of the best shows on TV ever...once you get past the first season

So these guys are going to do another Sex in the City movie with Sarah Michelle Parker?

Funny, R3. I'd say after Season 3 it went downhill.

What do ya think Angel looks like without his rug?

Dushku wasn't invited.

She should have taken the spin off.

Where is Kendra?

Where is Taro?

Did Don get invited?

Mark Blucas isn't there either. He's the only opening credits billed cast member not in the shot other than ASH who had a previous commitment. Kristine Sutherland and Amber Benson were never even in the credits other than the one episode where Amber appeared as a tribute.

Why was he even in the opening credits? I'm not surprised he wasn't invited. Completely forgettable.

used to love this series. amber and kristen added volumes to this series. willow and tara rock! loved spike too. it should have run one more year. gellar wanted to quit--she never did anything of signifcicance afterward.

Actor who played Giles is starring in a play in London right now.

David Boreanz had a certain charisma. Too bad he turned out to be an adulterous pig.

Sarah looks old and shitty on that cover. She can't be happy with it.

Hi Susan at R16!

I love the Spuffy cover, it's beautiful.

Sarah's solo cover is nice as well, she's wearing a beautiful black dress.

Eliza should've been there (and Marc Blucas) .......

What the hell is Allyson Hannigan's husband doing on the cover. He was on Angel (and maybe appeared in a handful of Buffy episodes while Giles was absent)

[Quote] What the hell is Allyson Hannigan's husband doing on the cover.

I think you just answered your own question.

Tom Lenk joined the Scooby Gang late in the series, but they could've squeezed their gay boy character onto the cover.

[quote]Tom Lenk joined the Scooby Gang late in the series, but they could've squeezed their gay boy character onto the cover

Hell, if they invited those three losers then they might as well invited Faith, Kendra, Riley, Jenny and every other recurring character.

Don't forget Johanthan (Danny Strong).

Who is Susan?

Nicholas Brendon is a drunk who will probably be dead by the end of the year.

I am quite surprised that they got David to pose for this.

Eliza has more business being there than Tom would.

p.s. Tom is totally a filthy sex whore.

Where's Ben?

Why do you say that R26 ??

Something happened between either David and Joss or someone else tied to the show. The rumor is he felt he was cheated out of money or something. For years, interviewers couldn't even ask him about Buffy or Angel in interviews.

I knew about the interview part. I don't think it helped that it was Joss's fault that Angel got cancelled. It was something to do with Firefly.

[quote] It was something to do with Firefly.

Is that why David made the cunty remark about Fillion a few years back?

What did he say R32 ??

[quote]David Boreanaz stirred the pot when he took a mocking jab at Nathan Fillion at Comic-Con over the weekend. During the Bones panel on Friday, Boreanaz noted that the Castle star was featured on the back of a TV Guide issue that had his own FOX drama on the front. Boreanaz joked “I want to work four days, not five.” The jab was in reference to Fillion’s July 12 decision to just not show up to work. He’s in the middle of a contract dispute with ABC Studios over his desire to only work four days a week.

Lmfao

R6 More importantly.What does Angel look like without his pants?

Why is Angel cut?

Yeah, pretty obvious Hannigan forced them to put her husband in. Marc Blucas or Juliet Landau or Eliza Dushku deserve to be there more than him. Hell, Julie Benz deserves a spot more than he does.

What about Kennedy?

OMG, Marc Blucas was a fucking LOW spot in the history of Buffy! He was vaguely pretty in a frat bro kind of way but so boring and dull.

Who's Ben, r28?

Ben was the first transgender.👨🏻👗💅🏻

I didn't see Michelle Trachtenberg, was she there?

She was fucking annoying. I couldn't watch any scene with her in it, truly awful actress.

[quote]Don't forget Johanthan (Danny Strong).

Danny is too busy cashing "Empire" checks. Trachtenberg was there. I believe Nicky wanted to shoot separately for obvious reasons.

Will Harmony be invited?

R44 he's not that busy.

I loved Emma Caulfield in this scene.

[quote]Why is Angel cut?

Because there is no smegma in Heaven.

[quote]The failure that is the Gilmore Girls revisit

Gilmore Girls revisit!? AHAHAHAHA He used that check to cover his phone bill.

It's very obvious that there is some problem between Whedon and Dushku. They worked on two series together.

Unless it's between her and Sarah.

Here's a fun fake of Angel and Spike having at it indoors, safe from the sun's harmful rays.

R36, that is a scene from 12 Girls. Or was it 8 Girls? Why did he go full frontal?

Definitely not Joss, r50. They tweet at each other from time to time, so it's not him. She tweeted that ET didn't invite her to the shoot because she wasn't a series regular. Which holds water if you discount

Sarah is a definite possibility. I doubt Sarah has ever gotten over Faith being so popular with the fans, especially as she got so popular so fast. The posters at The Bronze used to worship Faith *and* Eliza, and I know Sarah lurked the hell out of that board, so . . .

Oh, and it's definitely not Firefly's fault that Angel was cancelled.

I know that because Firefly was already dead and in its grave a season past when Angel died. Firefly's single half season was consecutive with Buffy 7 and Angel 4. Angel died at the end of 5.

Now feel free to blame how bad the second half of Buffy season 6 and how bad the first 2/3rds of season 7 were on Firefly, because Joss and the best writers had a shiny new toy they LOVED to play with and it took its toll on the other two. Although less with Angel because MInear was more present for Angel than Joss was for Buffy.

Angel was cancelled, even though it was the WB's top rated show at the time, because it was watched by women not men. Back in the day, that mattered even more than it does now. Or maybe it doesn't, it's just back then, they would tell you that was the reason, now they'd probably make some shit up.

Did Ms. Geller gloat to her former castmates because her man Trump won?

*Which holds water if you discount Alexis being there. But of course he's there because Ally insisted.

r54 SMG publicly endorsed Clinton.

I love that Family Guy line where Peter says to Chris (or maybe it was Han to Luke): "Buffy the Vampire Slayer was never a hit; EW just said it was. That does not make it a hit."

So again, R49... he's not that busy.

SMG and Dushku don't have any beef with each other. They share the same friends.

From what I know, the only two who had issues with each other were SMG and Alyson.

BTW, Lenk and Dushku did one of those Princess Rap Battles together after SMG did hers.

SMG's Princess Rap Battle.

This is what I remember. SMG did not want the series to move to then UPN. She was upset about that. She may have even tried to get out her contract, but she was locked in. She was also tired of the show by the end and just disengaged herself from the rest of the cast. It has since come out, in story after story, that the only true mean girl on that set was AH. With that much smoke, it has to be true. The only thing you hear about SMG is that she was cold and standoffish, not a mean girl.

Anybody been reading all the comic seasons? Where's the gang at today?

R61 that's pretty much what I've been told by Tom. That Sarah wasn't a bitch to anyone and that by the end of the run she was just tired. Sarah had also had disagreements with Joss and the writers about the direction of the show. I was also told that Hannigan was an issue for a lot of people.

Also, remember it was Hannigan who tried to shade/throw SMG under the bus on WWHL and SMG didn't take the bait. She responded tactfully saying she had no issues with Hannigan for what she said.

Carpenter looks amazing for a woman in her mid-40s.

Her departure and the ruinization of her character is what killed Angel. But Joss was fucking Amy Acker so she got the female lead spot.

At one point didn't many of the actors have issues with Joss or each other?

Seth Green and Joss had a falling out because Seth wanted out for two episodes at the end of the season to do a film. Joss wouldn't let him or even ask the studio to release him. That led to Seth not returning as a regular. They made up more than a couple of years ago; definitely before Seth created Robot Chicken. At a convention years ago Nicholas complained that he had to leave his wedding reception to return to work because they wouldn't let him off either.

James Marsters was pissed about Spike attempting to rape Buffy. He implored Joss and Marti Noxon to not have him do that storyline because someone close to him was raped. He claims having to do that scene sent him into therapy.

I heard Emma Caufield wasn't liked and that she would steal wardrobe from set.

[quote]I heard Emma Caufield wasn't liked and that she would steal wardrobe from set.

Interesting. Where did you hear that from? I heard the only person she had trouble with was Hannigan.

I know she got along well with Brendan, Gellar, Benson, Trachtenberg, and Lenk.

I still hate the ending they gave Anya. She deserved better than that.

[quote]Interesting. Where did you hear that from?

A Teamster who worked on the set.

[quote]A Teamster who worked on the set.

Again, interesting. I was told by Lenk that that wasn't the case.

[quote]At a convention years ago Nicholas complained that he had to leave his wedding reception to return to work because they wouldn't let him off either.

Think of it this way, now he has all the time he wants to do whatever he wants and go to however many wedding receptions his heart desires.

R69, ITA - maybe he could have scheduled his wedding on the off season so he could enjoy it fully and not have to worry about having a job.

Marc Cherry was asked after Desperate Housewives hit if he had trouble adjusting to life going from nothing to everything when Housewives hit; he said no. what I had trouble adjusting to was being poor.

Paraphrasing but I thought that was great.

He was poor before Housewives? I thought he had Golden Girls.

I seem to remember Emma Caulfield and ASH being good friends as well. I remember seeing a picture of Emma and ASH together in England.

What sort of mean girl was AH? I don't remember hearing about this. Did she not get along with anyone?

One thing to remember is that by the end some of those people had worked together for seven years. Even the Angel cast, at the end, had been together for five years.

That's a lot of time to spend, especially with the time constraints and budgets those shows had to work with, The less of each to go around, the crankier everyone involved becomes.

This is the first I've heard of Hannigan being a problem. What's the source and what were her issues?

And, like a year ago Hannigan and Geller were tweeting with each other and it sounded like they had recently hung out with each other.

I remember having a crush on Xander at the start of the show... at some point he turned all bloated and the character got annoying.

Is it true that Joss fired Charisma Carpenter because she got pregnant?

[quote]This is the first I've heard of Hannigan being a problem.

There are the rumors of Hannigan being so mean towards Amber Benson (Tara) that Amber refused to return for a guest appearance after her character died (I read in an interview that she claims that she didn't want to do it, because it would mean that the last time the audience sees her character is to fuck with Willow's head as part of some Evil Demon's ploy).

Regarding Benson. She and Adam Bush (Warren, the guy who shot Tara) were in a relationship for a while after their Buffy gigs.

[quote]So again, [R49]... he's not that busy.

I was thinking about letting this go, but your declaration that he's "Not that busy" and "Gilmore Girls Revisit" is so haughty and typical that I HAVE to respond.

Unless you're his personal assistant, how the fuck do you know he's not that busy?

There was also rumors that Gellar and Hannigan hated each other, which as Gellar has stated several times, is bullshit based on a recent playdate with their kids. Also I doubt Hannigan and Benson would be holding hands if they hated each other so much. I think a lot of those 20-year-old rumors were probably bullshit.

SMG can't be that bad a person. She's still close to a few of her AMC costars, and that's going back 20+ years. She was besties with Eva La Rue and is also close, I think, to Kelly Ripa.

And she, like Julianne Moore, wasn't too good to do a cameo after the show got canceled.

There was an actress at the shoot I couldn't recognize. Dark hair--big eyes--who was she?

I recognized Trachtenberg. And it was nice to see the actress who played Buffy's mom, Joyce.

Meanwhile, couldn't they put some make-up on Charisma Carpenter so the bikini tanline wouldn't be so obvious?

[quote]There was an actress at the shoot I couldn't recognize. Dark hair--big eyes--who was she?

With her hair up? That's Amber Benson.

OMG--I didn't recognize her at all. Thank r82.

I think it's also important to note that he has been a long time and a lot of these old feuds and rivalries and hurts just go away with age and growth. It always seemed that the only one who was holding a grudge was David, when he wouldn't talk about Angel or Buffy.

Think about it, do you still hold grudges against people you hated in high school. At some point you just move on past all that.

STILL surprised David "lowered himself" to do the reunion shoot.

I loved Johnathan and Andrew.

Sad Giles couldn't make it to the shoot.

WAit, Joyce and Amber were invited but not Faith? She was a bigger part of the show and mythology than them.

Alyson Hannigan has always been a cunt. Jason Biggs couldn't stand her. Neil Patrick Harris refused to be in scenes with her towards the end.

[quote]STILL surprised David "lowered himself" to do the reunion shoot

Now that Bones is finally ending, I don't think he's got much else to do. I can't imagine he'll get lucky with another network show.

Yeah it does suck Eliza Dushku was not invited. She was never a series regular, but still an important part of the show and Faith was a fan favorite character.

[quote]It was one of the best shows on TV ever...once you get past the first season

[quote]Funny, [R3]. I'd say after Season 3 it went downhill.

Those aren't mututally exclusive, most fans look at Seasons 2 and Seasons 3 as the peak of Buffy.

And yes, I've heard a lot of gossip that Alyson Hannigan is a mean girl.

[quote]but they could've squeezed their gay boy character onto the cover.

Tom Lenk's Andrew was never officially gay was he? I remember on his "Angel" appearance they even had his arms wrapped all over some hot (female) models.

[quote]p.s. Tom is totally a filthy sex whore.

Any particular anecdotes you want to share?

In the post-series comics, which are considered canonical, he came out. Even started cruising on Grindr.

Charisma does really look great. Probably the best of all them, aging wise.

r89, Boreanaz just booked the lead in a CBS pilot. He and Hannigan have worked more steadily than anyone in the cast

I guess we'll never see a movie or another tv season.

r95. Reboots happen all the time nowdays.

R78 are you new here? No, seriously.

R95 why would you say that?

SMG said a few years back that she's open and wants to do a reunion show/movie.

[quote]p.s. Tom is totally a filthy sex whore. [quote]Any particular anecdotes you want to share?

I first met him working on a project with him. He tried to hook up with me, it wasn't going to happen. I thought some of the stuff he was saying was a joke, but turns out he's into really, kinky, rough, play. We became friends after working together and I later hooked up with one of his exes who confirmed that Tom indeed was into some peculiar things in bed.

Heather Morris is the new Buffy in the reboot.

Boreanaz was lucky Angel was cancelled. He wouldn't have gotten 10 years of Bones otherwise. Bones started right after Angel ended. Angel probably could have ran for one more season but instead he got 10 more seasons on Bones.

He also got a producer credit and now has fuck you money. So he's set for the rest of his life. Quite frankly, and I know I'm in the minority, but Angel at it's best was better than Buffy - seasons 1, 2, and 3.

R100 and he's moved from Bones right into another cushy series.

Who is the guy blowing to get that much steady work?

I just watched the first three seasons of Buffy before it went off of Netflix. It was a pretty good show, with some great episodes, but I did get a little tired of Buffy and her angst. Objectively, I know if any character had a right to be mopey it would be Buffy, but it got old when watching more than one episode a week. I think that is why I stopped watching when it was originally run, the show had less humor and was less fun and the characters became more unlikable in the later seasons. In some ways, I do think Angel was more entertaining for a few years, because it did not take itself quite as seriously. Watching season 1 Angel on Buffy, it is hard to imagine he would eventually evolve into a quirky character with good deadpan timing once Angel hit it stride.

I am surprised Faith was such a fan favorite, because I remember hating her in a not love to hate sort of way. I thought she was pretty one note in season 3 Buffy. I enjoyed her a lot more in her arc on Angel a year or two later.

Maybe she got better post-high school years, but never really cared for AH's Willow either. Her little girl voice and the cadence of how she talked grated on my nerves. I remember thinking that even when the show first came out.

I did watch two post-high school episodes, because I had always heard how good they were. Hush and Once More with Feeling. Hush was very good. The musical episode was ok and had some good moments, but most of the songs were pretty generic power ballads with some mediocre singing, and the novelty wore off. Still Buffy's finally revealing she was pulled from heaven was effectively done, and SMG looked better with a little darker hair color. She is usually way to blonde and washed out.

Alyson Hannigan has had even more success than Angel. She went from My Stepmother is an Alien to Free Spirit to 7 years on Buffy to 13 years on American Pie to 10 years on How I Met Your Mother.

Who would have thought that Willow and Angel would be the most successful and richest while Nicholas Brendan and Charisma Carpenter could barely afford to buy lunch?

They really can't do a reunion movie with the original cast...or, they could but it would have to be without any of the immortal characters. No Angel or Spike.

Vampires don't get older, fatter and wrinklier.

Y knot?

Actually Carpenter works pretty steadily...just not in prestige projects and she is quite well financially.

What has she been in?

Joss cut Charisma when she didn't lose the baby weight.

You could always tell SMG was the most professional out of the bunch. That led to her being labelled standoffish and rude. It was just a job for her.

Wesley probably only got a starring spot because they needed a Watcher. Most probably why only one Slayer features too. Bit of a shame, Eliza was a huge part of the show and AHS could have been snapped in the UK separately.

Where's Larry?

Has no one discussed Nicholas Brendon's suicide attempt two years ago?

NB should never have been cast. Look at how it ruined his life. The roll should have gone to another better, hotter actor.

Nick Brendon was plenty hot early on. He just suffered increasingly from booze bloat as the show went on.

[quote]Vampires don't get older, fatter and wrinklier.

They hid James Marsters' true age pretty well the first time, but he's rougher-looking in his 50s, and no amount of makeup and soft focus is going to hide that.

R107 Charisma can totally be my lesbian Sugar-mama. I've had a crush on her since seeing Harmony for the first time and she's still gorgeous in every way to me. I love nothing better than funny, upbeat, glammy blondes who don't take themselves too seriously, and if they have mad cash all the better.

I find it funny that I'm on such a different page than most of you on Faith. Her episodes were always my least favorite.

Marsters looks better for his age than Brendon does.

[quote]I find it funny that I'm on such a different page than most of you on Faith. Her episodes were always my least favorite.

I agree - I found her pretty tedious in season 3 Buffy, although she was ok later on Angel. I did not watch Buffy much after season 3, so if she came back for any arc, I missed those episodes.

r103, I had the same reaction as you to Hannigan the first time that I watched Buffy. I also thought Xander overplayed the dopiness, and I found the pair too cartoonish on the whole.

My second go-round with the series softened me to the exaggerated performances quite a bit.

You might really appreciate what happens with Willow's character in the post-high school years, even beyond the lesbian turn. You already got to meet Vampire Willow, but Dark Willow shows up later - addicted to using magic and then engulfed and enraged by grief. There's no cutesiness there; in fact, both Vampire Willow and Dark Willow play off and mock the Willow we meet in the first few seasons.

Also, Willow's wardrobe gets really witchy.

Hated the Xander character throughout the entire run. He's the one I found tedious and I'm not certain if it was just the character or how Brendan played him. I got exhausted at how when it came to defeating the Big Bads he was basically the key player in the majority of them.

Joss didn't fire Carpenter because she didn't get rid of the baby fat. That was just part of it. He was pissed at her from the start because she got pregnant, kept it a secret for awhile, and because of the pregnancy they had to completely re-write the rest of the season/story arc.

[quote]David Boreanz had a certain charisma. Too bad he turned out to be an adulterous pig. —Team Spike

R15 = Obvious Frau

[quote]Marsters looks better for his age than Brendon does.

Now that's damning with faint praise.

[quote]Think about it, do you still hold grudges against people you hated in high school. At some point you just move on past all that.

Not if you're a Scorpio

[quote]Vampires don't get older, fatter and wrinklier.

Someone should have mentioned that to the Vampire Diaries crew at least 5 years ago

Spike and Angel can still be a part of it! They can just CGI their old faces on to new bodies!

Spike burnt up in the finale.

And, R126?

Someone didn't watch "Angel" r126.

They immediately brought Spike back to life and he was a series regular for the last season of Angel.

It also led to a quote that Spike and Angel had fooled around once, which made all the shippers and gay boys happy.

Who was the bottom?

Aren't there rumours of Joss fucking Acker and Glau??

I thought Nicholas was told not to be too fit after the Go Fish episode.

I had no idea Eliza was a drug addict.

And i thought Sarah wanted time to focus on her marriage to FPJ which might explain why she was over the show.

Faith was always my favorite. Plus Eliza's from my hometown (Watertown, MA).

There was a thread many years ago about "secrets" of BtVS. It had comments from people who actually worked on the show and how much of a raging cunt AH was.

Went back and watched the clip in the OP. I didn't even realize that not only did none of the cast shoot with him... Brendan wasn't even given a seat in the group talk along with the others.

I wonder if he was even there at the same time.

I'm not a huge fan of Nicholas Brendon (per se), or the Xander character, or of...oh, drug abuse, or alcoholism, or aging, but this photo of Brendon in the EW Reunion shoot is pretty great.

He looks.....ok. Wonder how much photoshop was involved??

He looks like he just got off a bender.

He should've stayed on the swim team.

Xander was my favorite character for at least the first three seasons.

r131, any link to that thread? It sounds great.

Boreanaz liked to wave his dick around on set.

It's funny how Boreanaz went on to be the most successful. He was a god-awful actor when he first appeared on "Buffy", like laughably bad (though man he was also gorgeous as hell back then, I understood why the picked him).

In his defense, he did get better, but he had the most painful start of the entire cast.

There's a quote circulating from Hannigan from a years ago where she says that she hated Julie Benz and that Julie was supposedly awful and mean to her during the first season and that she still wasn't over it.

When did Julie Benz and AH share scenes? I don't really recall.

I'd say Boreanaz has aged better than any of them.

I remember that quote, R141 - it was in one of the 90's sci-fi magazines. Was surprised AH was so frank about hating Julie Benz. And JB and Amber Benson were good friends, which might have led to problems later.

Hannigan seems like a shrewd and manipulative person to me.

Not to mention that JB and SMG also get along really well.

When did JB ever share scenes with Amber or Sarah?

Charisma aged the best out of the bunch (must be the Mexican and Native American genes, People with that mixture age really well (Johnnie Depp, Linda Carter).

Alyson is a decent actress, but her homely-ass had no reason to be mean to anyone. Then again, maybe that's why... However, I did enjoy Dark Willow.

I never understood the Buffy little sister storyline. Very lame.

Faith was HOT!

This makes me want to drag out my DVD collection and watch it all over again!!

One of my favorite story lines, even if it was just one episode, was when Buffy was convinced she was perhaps mentally ill and trapped in a fantasy she had created for herself. The only way out was to kill all her friends and especially, Dawn.

Sorry R138, it had to be over 10 years ago.

R148: I loved the musical episode "Once More with Feeling"

This is a quote from one of the other threads:

[quote] met Amber Benson after she had left the show and I mentioned the things I had heard about SMG being difficult. She seemed genuinely shocked and said that she was always very supportive of the crew. Seth Green had implied that she gets a bad reputation for no reason. And I think there is NOTHING wrong with keeping personal and social lives eeparate. And the person who scoffed at the Emmy suggestion. Watch The Body and say it again.

That thread also made mention of someone who was on the set of one her movies and said they were grateful to SMG for getting Betty Buckley fired for being a cunt to her and the rest of the cast, ha.

[quoyr]Not only didn't she go very far, she's also a complete bitch on Twitter every single time someone dares call her Anya. I've never seen anything like it.

That was posted in one of the other threads but they didn't give any examples.

I remember reading that AH was obsessive in her pursuit of her husband who was supposedly in a relationship at the time. There was also talk from former extras somewhere that she was the kind of woman who was only nice to straight men and treated women and gay men coldly.

R127 R128 I completely forgot about Spike coming back for Angel. I wasn't a Spike fan by that stage so it was wishful thinking that was his end.

Why is R130 saying Eliza was a drug addict? Where did that come from?

Have we mentioned the rumours of DB's first marriage breaking up due to an affair with SMG?

Anyone prefer Kristy Swanson's Buffy and Luke Perry's Angel over the SMG and DB versions?

More gossip re: Tom Lenk from back in the day, please and thank you. Watching Andrew's antics were the only thing that got me through season 7! I've linked a NY Times news story re: what he's up to now.

I'm not surprised about AH, she'd have to be 'driven' (read as *a total cunt*) to get as far as she has with such mediocre looks and average talent. Out of the two of them, I think SMG is definitely the better actress. AH's character always annoyed me as well. I got used to Xander with time (never liked NB), but Willow I always disliked. Loved Tara, but even she couldn't make me like Willow!

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Loved Buffy until Dawn then it went down hill with a few highlights. Loved Angel until they killed Cordelia then stopped watching. Sorry to hear AH is a bitch. But then again I liked Willow not her personally.

Darla should have been there. Julie Benz rocked the part and was a great back story for Angel

I had forgotten that Darla was killed 3 times between the two shows. I loved when she staked herself.

[quote]I had forgotten that Darla was killed 3 times between the two shows. I loved when she staked herself.

The staking herself was a very effective moment, although sadly it did give us Connor.

True, R161. It would have been more effective if she had staked herself in order to have saved us from him.

Darla was a big "Angel" character r159, not a "Buffy" character. She appeared in all of five episodes of "Buffy".

(Of course the same holds true Wesley who did not deserve to be there as has been said, he was a big "Angel" character as well)

SMG was on Andy Cohen last night and he asked her about Head and Dushku not being there for the photo shoot. She talked about Head not being able to come and the portrait. As far as Dushku, she shrugged it off and said she wasn't in charge of the photo shoot and didn't know.

I was re-reading some old threads and found it interesting that a lot of people kept saying SMG had to be the problem when it came to Susan's dislike of her. People pointed to the fact that she didn't seem to have issues with the other younger actresses who played her daughter, etc.

This doesn't hold any weight to me though because none of those other actresses won an Emmy and none did so before Susan got hers.

[quote]OMG, Marc Blucas was a fucking LOW spot in the history of Buffy! He was vaguely pretty in a frat bro kind of way but so boring and dull.

He was a series regular though, I wonder if they invited him. If not that is pretty damn shady he is the one series regular that did not get an invite.

Buffy was a great show but Xena was a bit better

Please, both Buffy and Xena could be campy fun, but Buffy reached heights that Xena never did.

R168 Well Buffy was a network show. Xena was always syndicated, it didn't have a network behind it promoting it.

To be fair, R166 it could very well be that those who handled the invites, as well as the cast, may have completely forgotten about Marc Blucas' existence.

Riley is the most forgettable character in the entire series. Horrible casting.

Drusilla makes a far stronger impression with only a handful of episodes. I'd much rather check in with Juliet Landau.

The most interesting thing about Marc Blucas is that he's the stepfather to Christian Slater's (whom Buffy in the movie says all she wants to do is graduate high school and marry) kids.

Marc Blucas was fucking hot, and those sex scenes where he was half naked were great eye-candy.

He was hot from the neck down.

He couldn't act for shit, however.

No wonder Buffy took up with Spike after his departure.

I don't think he was hot. Adam was way hotter. Blucas has the kind of face where you wonder if he's half special needs.

Who's Adam?

Adam was the cyborg from s4.

He ended up being the Big Bad when Lindsay Crouse wanted out of her contract and they abruptly killed off Professor Walsh.

Too bad. She would have made a better full-season villain.

Season 4 was the worst season with the worst, most forgettable Big Bad. It was so anticlimactic that they defeated him with one episode left to go. The season finale was a tacked-on dream episode that had nothing to do with the rest of the season.

I hadn't heard that story re: Crouse. Why did she want out of her contract and how was she going to be the big bad considering she was human?

As r177 said, they did not plan on losing Professor Walsh so prematurely so they really derailed their gameplan for season 4. They did the best they could to make it work.

What was the game plan for season 4?

Why did she want out of her contract? Did she ever amount to anything? If not, does she regret it now?

Again, sow hat was the plan for Walsh?

I did a search online and most of it seems just speculation that Adam wasn't the way they were going to go. A couple of sources say she was actually fired because Whedon found her difficult to work with.

"Something Blue", "Hush", The Faith two-parter, "Fear Itself", "Superstar", "Restless"

The Season 4 arc was weak, but it still delivered a lot of fantastic episodes.

Season 6 only gave me two episodes I truly loved: "Once More With Feeling" and "Tabula Rasa".

Though OMWF is probably my favorite episode of Buffy ever.

How do you guys remember all these titles and what episode was what?

We never got the real story of what went down, but originally Maggie Walsh was meant to play a much bigger role in Season 4 than what ended up happening. It is pretty obvious when you are watching, she was being built up and was just suddenly killed off very abruptly.

[quote] Did she ever amount to anything?

Linda Crouse is an Oscar-nominee btw

The Faith two parter always leaves me remembering that Eliza was much better portraying Buffy than SMG was in portraying Faith.

Professor Walsh and Adam were supposed to get married and become a power couple Big Bad like Spike and Drusilla. Their kids were supposed to be the Big Bad of the next season but they morphed the kids (Ben and Glory) into one God when that didn't pan out.

I'm pretty sure Crouse was 20 years past childbirthing years.

Not with a cyborg.

Sorry, Adam would not have been in to her. She was NOT his type.

Trust me, I know.

I loved the scene where Spike was fucking Buffy at (I think) The Bronze on the balcony overlooking the crowd. I think that scene too that show to a whole other level.

I loved the season 4 finale actually.

Especially the cheese man.

[quote]How do you guys remember all these titles and what episode was what?

I freely let my nerd card fly, I wasn't a casual "Buffy" fan, was obsessed with that show at the time. And I re-watched the series recently.

I honestly don't even remember the Season 4 finale. I've forgotten most of S4.

R194, it was where they were all stuck in a dream... and in that dream, they all met the first Slayer.

And the cheese-man.

Stupid

I still barely remember it, R195. But I guess I do remember that they were setting up for S7 with that.

"The Body" still stands as one of the best hours of TV ever.

Came across this interview with Hannigan where she tries to downplay what she said about SMG on WWHL. She basically tries to blame it on Andy. What struck me most about it though was how it came across, at least to me, anyway, as disingenuous. She sort of seemed like she was only half-assed covering. I also noticed that she never bothered to reach out to SMG instead she just Tweeted something out.

SMG on where ASH and Eliza were during the reunion.

BTW what's wrong with her hair? Is it a wig?

Season 4 had some of the best episodes. I also loved the season's finale.

Season 5 was the best, IMO. Season 6 had two great episodes, but overall I thought the series was pass its peak by that point.

Yes R198, the whole arc of Dawn/Joyce was absolutely amazing and should have garnered Emmys. Stupid Emmy people don't like genre series. Great writing/acting. Makes you think.

Vox ranked every episode for the 20th anniversary.

Watch what happens when Willow visits Andy's rank, amateur show

So what does the DL think of SMG's looks in general? Has the board as a whole ever voted on this?

Curious as to people's opinions. I know I have mine.

[Quote] Season 4 was the worst season with the worst, most forgettable Big Bad. It was so anticlimactic that they defeated him with one episode left to go. The season finale was a tacked-on dream episode that had nothing to do with the rest of the season.

Are you serious?? Restless was a very important episode, not to mention all the foreshadowing.

How was it an important episode?

Amber Benson was the only beautiful woman on the show, and her acting was most consistent too.

She clearly parted BtVS on good terms with the cast/crew as she wrote and directed CHANCE, an indie film where she recruited old BtVS crewmembers and cast herself opposite James Marsters. I dislike both Spike and Marsters immensely but even he was somewhat likeable and interesting in this little flick. Benson plays a jobless, quasi-alcoholic bisexual in it and it's sort of nuts, worth a watch for Buffy fans.

[Quote] I dislike both Spike and Marsters immensely but even he was somewhat likeable and interesting in this little flick.

Why don't you like James??

[quote]Why is Angel cut?

His parents had taste. And they loved him.

Yeah James seems like the most universally liked person from the cast, no one has ever has anything but great things to say about him.

[quote]Yeah James seems like the most universally liked person from the cast, no one has ever has anything but great things to say about him.

Same goes for Head and Carpenter.

LOVE Amber Benson...WHY has she done little else? Does she work behind the scenes in movies?

I never knew that about Lindsay Crouse / Season 4. I remember her death feeling so abrupt and being such a let down and then Adam as the Big Bad was horrible. Makes sense it was because they had to scramble when the original plan didn't work out. Would have loved to have seen what was originally planned.

[quote[Amber Benson was the only beautiful woman on the show

I thought Charisma had her moments.

[Angel really had a big void after her death]

I wouldn't call Amber Benson beautiful.

Charisma and Julie are much more attractive in my opinion.

The most beautiful ranked:

Allyson Hannigan

Sarah Michelle Gellar

Drusilla

Amber Benson

Kennedy

Don

Harmony

Darla

Kendall

Glory/Ben

Eliza Duchlittle

Fred

Joyce

Jenny Calendar

Lilith

Charisma Carpenter

R217, I honestly have no idea if you're ranking from least-to-most beautiful, or most-to-least...

R218 that list has to be ugliest first to prettiest..... unless R217 is Denisof still hoping to get work off her.

I was ranking most beautiful to least, of course. Duh.

Yeah, not even remotely obvious, R220.

They omitted Balthazar from the gathering.

Why was Wesley there? I thought he died.

No, R223.

Well, Wesley the character did die in the Angel series finale.

Perhaps the greatest of Whedon's stable of tragic figures.

Did anyone else secretly hope Fred was still somewhere inside what's her name at the end of Angel?

I sent for all 4 EW covers.

The one with Sarah by herself is truly lovely.

I love the Spuffy cover as well.

Who is Lilith, R217?

I am probably in the minority when I say that I disliked Fred (on "Angel") and thought that "The Body" was an incredibly overrated episode. Granted, I have always hated Buffy's mother so I was just happy when she died.

I am also glad Wesley is there: he was one of the most interesting characters, even though he had to move to "Angel" to show it.

And why is Cordelia there? I thought she died also.

Cordy died on Angel. Unlike Wes's, her death came at the end of an unforgivably awful story arc that seems to have been slapped together when her Charisma Carpenter's pregnancy and new baby conflicted with the series.

Fred annoyed the fuck out of me until season four, when Amy Acker's toned down the Texan accent and the wide-eyed, innocent nature of the character. Otherwise, I would have celebrated Fred's departure to make way for Illyria.

r226, Amy Acker has said that if Angel had continued, we would most likely have seen sparks (or more) of Fred in Illyria. Remember that Illyria had access to all of Fred's memories - though she consumed her soul in one of Whedon's cruelest demises. She "played" Fred twice: once for Fred's visiting parents and again as Wes lay dying:

"Would you like me to lie to you now?"

"Yes."

How would we have seen Fred if she's dead? You mean Illyria will act more like Fred or Fred would actually return?

I always hoped it would be revealed that Fred wasn't so much destroyed as "merged" with Illyria.

I think the identify of Fred might flicker in Illyria, and we'd be left to wonder what remained of her, or her soul, within Illyria.

There were some Angel comics after the series ended, and I don't know if that played out at all.

Once the series end, I consider them done.

In the comics that are set after the series ended, Buffy ended up destroying all magic in a storyline waaaaay too complicated to rehash. This caused the world to go topsy turvy until Willow figured out how to bring it back. The process would have taken years, so Illyria sacrificed herself to speed the process up.

Later, Fred appeared wandering the streets of London, and it was discovered she and Illyria were time-sharing the body.

[Quote] Granted, I have always hated Buffy's mother so I was just happy when she died.

What made you hate her??

She was insufferable and useless, and the tantrum she' s thrown at Buffy when she found out that she was a Slayer didn' t help.

Her mom was good as very brief comic relief but I agree she was insipid and annoying.

I agree that the actress playing Joyce was insipid, but not actually terrible. She didn't get in the way of what was essentially a teen show, at least at its outset.

The scene from r237 has been lauded as a powerful allegory for a gay kid struggling at home.

Have you tried NOT being a Slayer?

Hmm. I saw that R237 scene as a young closeted lesbian, R239, and honestly the parallel didn't hit me. I get it now, in retrospect, but it could apply to many identity struggles and not just gay.

I personally got more gay sympatico out of the struggles of Bobby Drake in Singer's X-Men 2, but I guess I was too young for Buffy (not even a teen in the 00s so Buffy was done by the time I got to it). I also never identified with Buffy Summers as a character; Angel was actually my favorite original, believe it or not. I also really felt close to Andrew & Warren, Oz, Harmony, and for some reason felt sorry for Riley.

[quote]and for some reason felt sorry for Riley.

I honestly felt sorry for Marc Blucas the way the fandom universally hated him and blamed him for ruining "Buffy". It was pretty nasty.

Yeah, it was vicious and unwarranted. Riley wasn't meant to be brooding like Angel or OTT like Spike. The point of his character was to be stable, normal and white-bread, just a good-natured dude. And Blucas definitely delivered that in a warm and likeable way. I wasn't attracted to Riley (obviously) but I really liked and sympathised with the guy, and thought Buffy used him and at times treated him like shit tbh (though she definitely had reasons and a legit excuse with, you know, the World ending and everything).

[quote]Later, Fred appeared wandering the streets of London, and it was discovered she and Illyria were time-sharing the body.

A Glory / Ben rip-off from Buffy?

I've never encountered a lesbian who identified with Warren, r241. He was the prime misogynistic character of the series - up until Nathan Fillion arrived in the unfortunate season seven. I can see Jonathan, yes, Andrew, maybe, but Warren?

I admit that I am one of the Riley haters. His acting wasn't awful, but he barely registered for me. I suppose he is a contrast to David Boreanaz, who I thought was fantastic - funny and terrifying as the script needed, as well as to Spike, but Marc Blucas was just such a dud to me. The episodes where he was getting willfully sucked by vampires might have worked with another actor, but he just couldn't pull it off.

The only episode that I really liked was the one from season six when he reappeared with this hot new wife - and Buffy realized how very far she had strayed from her ideals - as she was by then fucking Spike, working at the Doublemeat Palace, and longing for the peace that only death had afforded her.

She got to see exactly how dark things had gotten when a slice of white bread showed up.

Riley was good but bland. He wasn't some brooding loner carrying some heavy burden. He was just a pragmatic soldier with a hot body. He was great at solving problems but you had to squeeze him really hard to create drama and problems. And that made him one dimensional in the eyes of many audience members.

I get not loving Riley, my point was the fanbase was utterly vicious to him at the time which made me feel bad for Marc.

I will never understand the Riley-hate myself. He was gorgeous, fun, nice, and a great diversion for Buffy and the series to explore a bunch of themes. The hate is totally unwarranted.

I am tempted to start a new thread about the characters from Buffy/Angel that you hate the most.

I do hate Riley/Marc Blucas, but at the top of my list goes Kennedy, the Potential from season seven. She is also almost universally despised, but she had a shorter run and never made the opening credits.

The Buzzfeed ranking is ridiculous. How the fuck does annoying Fred rank higher than Cordy, Angel, Anya, etc...

Nevermind, she probably fucked the staff at Buzzfeed like she did Joss.

A homo wrote that piece, r250.

And at DL we know better than anyone that gays are often lacking in taste.

Still, I mostly agree with those he places on the bottom rungs.

Oops. Wrong thread. ^

That Buzzfeed ranking is indeed off.

How the fuck could Lorne be as low as #35?

Pretty sure this is the actual screen cap R36, unless there's a different version of that movie.

My least favorite was Eve from Angel's fifth season.

Mine are:

Least Favourite: 1) Connor; 2) Dawn; 3) Kennedy; 4) Fred; 5) Gunn; 6) Riley; 7) Doctor Walsh; 8) Rhona; 9) Angel; 10) Ben.

Favourite: 1) Spike; 2) Wesley; 3) Anya; 4) Giles; 5) Lorne; 6) Doyle; 7) Darla; 8) Drusilla; 9) The Mayor; 10) Lilah.

Xander is an odd ball because I liked him a lot when I watched the show when it first aired, but whenever I rewatch it now, I can' t believe how stupid 15 years old me was to like him.

r256, we have a lot of overlap on our lists, though I am a committed Angel/Angelus fan.

I also think Dr. Walsh could have been a great Big Bad had Lindsay Crouse stayed on. Certainly better than Adam.

Fuck, I hate Connor - as do you, even more than Dawn. I thought he was an interesting addition as an infant, but the teenage version was insufferable.

Fred became more bearable by season four, when Acker put the "aw shucks" persona to rest. Gunn was never a favorite of mine, but he was more a space filler than unlikable.

Wesley had perhaps the best character arc in the Buffyverse. From silly fop to tragic figure, comic beginning to bitter end.

I also enjoyed Doyle. I think he was killed off because of the actor's drug use, though I understand it was in the cards from the outset, and maybe his write-out got an acceleration because of his unreliability.

The Mayor and Lilah, yes! Both are funny in different ways, though Lilah gained a depth that I hadn't seen coming. She was one of the hopeless straws that Wes was grasping at as he circled the drain in season four.

Who is Rhona? The Real Housewives of North Atlanta?

Yes, R258... Slayer style, though. She was one of the annoying potential Slayers of the last season. Together with Kennedy.

I like Angelus, R258, but Angel bored me to death. And unfortunately we had too much of him and not enough of Angelus.

I can't think of any other shows where I did as many U-turns on the characters as I did with BtVS & Angel.

Willow: loved her for the first two or three seasons (although I found Alyson Hannigan's performance a bit too cutesy at points), but disliked her more and more as the years progressed

Tara: found her extremely dull at first, but I grew to like her more and more, and by the time she was killed off she was probably my favourite character. Amber Benson's acting improved significantly after Season 4.

Darla: unbearable during Season 1 of Buffy, but Julie Benz toned down the girlishness when she crossed over to Angel, and I ended up finding the character really interesting

Cordelia: great fun on Buffy, but they sucked the life out of the character on Angel. I never bought her evolution from spoilt little rich girl to self-sacrificing heroine. I understand that we were meant to believe that being given a higher purpose made her into a better person, but it felt too abrupt for me.

Connor: I found him even more annoying than Dawn during Season 4 and thought the actor was awful, but when they brought him back in Season 5 he was much more likeable.

Spike: probably the most extreme character deterioration, IMO. He's probably got the most obsessive fanbase of them all, so I'm apparently in the minority on that. I loved Spike in Season 2, when he was cool-headed and 100% evil. When he fell in love with Buffy, it ruined the character for me.

It's been a while since i've seen season 7 but i didn't mind Kennedy. The other potentials annoyed the shit out of me but Kennedy wasn't as scared or reluctant when it came to training. Dawn/Connor will forever be on my shitlist.

SMG really didn't age well at all.

My biggest regret of the series is that Evil Willow in season 6 didn't "un-make" Dawn at the end of the season like she threatened to.

R264 mine was that Buffy didn't let Dawn jump.

I wonder if the Dawn character had worked better if they had hired a better actress for the role.

I thought it was weird that Willow always described herself as a lesbian rather than bisexual. I never got the impression that she was just going through the motions with Oz or Xander in an attempt to convince herself that she was straight. I think she was attracted to guys as well.

I would have gladly traded Willow to keep Tara by the end of the sixth season.

By the end of the show, Anya was my favorite character. They'd made the others so annoying. And her struggles with being human after not being one for so long really moved me. Especially when contrasted with the ham-fisted way they dealt with Spike getting his soul back.

I am assuming you are a straight woman r267? Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

It's not some cut and dry "I'm really gay, but just pretending to like this". You really can be incredibly deluded and in denial about your own sexuality.

Sure, the character could have been bi, but it wasn't hard for to accept she realized she was gay.

My favorite character was Clem.

Even though he ate kittens.

[Quote] mine was that Buffy didn't let Dawn jump.

Buffy should have pushed her.

[Quote] I wonder if the Dawn character had worked better if they had hired a better actress for the role.

Dawn was originally supposed to be a little kid.

[quote]Buffy should have pushed her.

Ha. Loved that comment.

The whole Dawn thing was just another major inconsistency this show had. So the Monk's had that much power to create Dawn out of nothing, alter everyone's memory, but you know, couldn't magically create some other way to get rid of Glory or do away with the other random shit going on?

Yeah if you spend any time thinking about the whole Dawn/The Key thing it is utterly nonsensical. You really have to turn your brain off and just enjoy, "The Gift" was a nice episode.

[Quote] "The Gift" was a nice episode.

It was and i still love this line.

R217 thinks that Allyson Hannigan was the "most beautiful?" R217 must be blind or retarded, because Hannigan was the ugliest of them all. That rabbity face of hers...yech!

R272, if only Oz had still been on the show during Season 5, he would have noticed that plot hole (start the video at 2:46):

Speaking of Oz, there have been lots of gossip about Seth Green being gay over the years. Quite a few first hand accounts that sounded believable to me.

I want to know why Seth sounds like an 80 year old man.

Only one of the final season Potentials was at all likable and they killed her during the finale.

The one potential I liked made it out. It wasn't Kennedy.

I literally can't remember any potentials except Kennedy, and that was only because she really annoyed me.

Though I didn't like Season 7 much, so I don't remember it that well.

I don't get all the hate for Dawn and Connor. I like them both and the storylines.

Boomer here. I'm consistently shocked by the number of TV programs that are having 20th, 25th, etc. anniversaries -- programs I considered kids shows when they originally aired. Getting old is no party folks. Nothing to add here since I didn't watch Buffy; it was targeted to a much younger demographic than the one I belonged to. I can't help but notice though, that SMG is looking *rough*. She really is starting to look like a little old jewish lady -- you can see the beginnings. She is really aging fast. I feel so old now.

I agree, R283, you had nothing to add. But you did go on and on despite that.

R284 is a cunt.

R283 what's amazing is that she got cast in the first place. Before the show got very dark, they were casting basic types based on the movie. Buffy was the prototypal SoCal cheerleader type. They tried REALLY hard to makeover SMG to that type the first couple of seasons (and clearly fooled more naive types), but the fact is they cast her the way she looked on AMC: dark, pretty Jewish looking, short and not Hollywood thin, etc. Plus she was coming in with the soap stigma. So I don't know who either she or her mother had to sleep with to get the freaking part.

But I do remember that she was on the cover of TV Guide within a month or two of the show's first airing. Sorry but that was clearly putting the cart before the horse - she hired big PR guns to make a big deal of her immediately - and her own individual push is what brought the show attention in the first place.

Michelle "Lip Gloss" Trachtenberg is just awful.

Dawn could have been a fine character if they had hired a better/likeable actress.

I heard Michelle was bitch junior to Hannigan's queen.

R286 all stories about SMG and Buffy are that she originally auditioned for Cordelia and was offered that part. For some reason someone decided to ask her to audition for Buffy. They made her go through multiple auditions and SMG at that point was frustrated and tired and supposedly just wanted to stop auditioning and stick with the Cordy role and then they finally offered it to her.

Which ended up being the perfect casting r286, SMG was born to play Buffy and she did a great job in that role.

SMG did look Jewish, not conventionally pretty, and her voice was annoying. She quickly proved her acting chops and was superb as Buffy. I liked how the character always seemed a bit distant from the other Scoobies; like she bore a great burden. I had a crush on handsome Giles, and young Zander on the swim team was fapworthy!

[Quote] I literally can't remember any potentials except Kennedy, and that was only because she really annoyed me.

I don't think anybody liked Rona. And the actress who played her used to hang out on imdb and all the fans would suck up to her and pretend to love her character. It was pretty funny.

[Quote] I don't get all the hate for Dawn and Connor. I like them both and the storylines.

Because they were both annoying and unnecessary.

[Quote] They tried REALLY hard to makeover SMG to that type the first couple of seasons (and clearly fooled more naive types), but the fact is they cast her the way she looked on AMC: dark, pretty Jewish looking, short and not Hollywood thin, etc.

I always though SMG looked best in season 1 (weight wise). By season 2 she was fairly skinny, but she looked absolutely terrible in season 6. Joss seems to have a thing for tiny women.

[quote]I always though SMG looked best in season 1 (weight wise).

Me too: she had some meat on her bones and looked absolutely fantastic. I also liked that she had brownish hair instead of the blonde she had later.

Throughout the last few seasons, I kept wishing someone would shove a sandwich down SMG's throat.

Anyone else only see two replies (out of nearly 300) in this thread?

SMG is like 5'2" and really petite with 0 muscle mass. She would have been crushed in season one if Buffy were at all realistic.

Er r296 are you under the impression that Buffy is some normal girl? She is the slayer, a magic being with super strength.

R297 Giles still had to train her to fight, you would think she would at least become a bit more muscular.

Well, her stunt double certainly looked like she could fight hard.

[quote] I would have gladly traded Willow to keep Tara by the end of the sixth season.

This all day. Tara was not only more likeable and well-intentioned, she was also more stable and easier to work with. She would have been a great addition to the team proper, and I would have loved to see her move beyond an ancillary part. What could have been.

I would have been fine if they would have sacrificed Willow instead of Anya at the end.

Like, when Buffy was worried that her fucking Spike was a sign that she'd come back from being dead "wrong," and Tara was the one she chose to confide in. That was such an interesting dynamic, and I wish they'd explored it further. They had really good friend chemistry.

I also thought her maternal relationship with Dawn made the latter a lot more tolerable.

[quote] I liked how Buffy always seemed a bit distant from the other Scoobies, like she bore a great burden.

R291 you get that with Aquarian females. Same with Elizabeth Olsen, Molly Ringwald, Diane Lane, Christina Ricci...

Didn't she only go to Tara because she didn't want Willow and the rest to feel bad?

[Quote] Giles still had to train her to fight, you would think she would at least become a bit more muscular.

A girl with muscles isn't sexy/attractive in Hollywood.

[Quote] I would have been fine if they would have sacrificed Willow instead of Anya at the end.

I don't think it would've bothered me either. Especially after Willow raped Tara in season 6 with that amnesia spell.

The Willow story line in S7 was yet just another major inconsistency with this show. Yes, we get that Willow has "addiction" issues, blah blah blah, but this bitch almost single handedly destroyed the world the year before and then all of a sudden can't muster enough power to take down some uber-Vamps. I mean, Jesus, couldn't she at least just conjured up some perpetual daylight or something?

And speaking of Ubers. It was funny how Buffy could barely handle one of them without getting her limbs torn and then as the season progresses they seemed to somehow get weaker and weaker to the point that she and some of the potentials were able to just knock them out without much effort.

[quote]A girl with muscles isn't sexy/attractive in Hollywood.

Yeah if you look at say ScarJo's Black Widow, she doesn't have super powers. She is supposed to be a normal human who has just trained her whole life to be a badass fighter.

But ScarJo still looks like ScarJo, beautiful, but not athletic.

[quote]Didn't she only go to Tara because she didn't want Willow and the rest to feel bad?

Yes, but they were a lot closer after that. The dynamic really shifts, and by the birthday episode, Tara is slyly shading Spike about the who Buffy affair.

Yeah they did great things with Tara in Season 6, sadly the writers were just purposely making you love her so that you would feel bad when they killed her off.

[Quote] And speaking of Ubers. It was funny how Buffy could barely handle one of them without getting her limbs torn and then as the season progresses they seemed to somehow get weaker and weaker to the point that she and some of the potentials were able to just knock them out without much effort.

That happens all the time on tv shows/movies. The scene where Buffy decapitates one of the uber vamps in front of everyone was pretty awesome. The First had major bitchface when that happened lol

I thought Season 7 was a lot better than Season 6. Like, Buffy was insufferable by the end, but there were some truly good episodes in there as well. And the First's big monolog at the end of the season premiere is still fantastic.

Season 7 started pretty strong, but overall I found it weak.

Personally, I consider Seasons 6-7 to be a big step down from Seasons 2-5.

[quote]Personally, I consider Seasons 6-7 to be a big step down from Seasons 2-5.

I don't disagree with that at all. I just think a lot of the complaints are overblown. And a lot of them aren't.

But "Conversations with Dead People" is a legitimately fantastic episode, and as Anya was my favorite by the end, "Selfless" is a favorite of mine too.

[Quote] Like, Buffy was insufferable by the end

She had good reason to be.

[Quote] And the First's big monolog at the end of the season premiere is still fantastic.

Agreed.

[Quote] But "Conversations with Dead People" is a legitimately fantastic episode, and as Anya was my favorite by the end, "Selfless" is a favorite of mine too.

They're both good episodes. I also liked Storyteller and Lies My Parents Told Me.

R296, I'm not sure realism was ever much of a priority for Joss.

Joss Wheedon didn't decide the budget for his show; the network did. I'm sure he would have preferred a couple hundred thousand dollars more in the budget and an extra month to make that scene less cheesy.

Lol Snyder was such a little shit. The Mayor was my favourite villain, the second would be Glory.

It was rather abrupt, r318, but it did happen in the final few minutes of the series, so there wasn't much time for anyone to react.

That said, the other characters somewhat openly hated or at least disliked Anya. Only Xander could have been expected to be shredded by grief, which he most assuredly was not. I found that point a bit weak. Then again, there was lots of emphasis on the inevitability of death in war. There seemed to be an acceptance of that once it actually transpired.

I was also sorry to see the Potential Amanda go. She was the only one who really made a positive impression on me.

[Quote] I was also sorry to see the Potential Amanda go. She was the only one who really made a positive impression on me.

I liked her too and i forgot that she died. It would've been interesting to see the consequences of all the Slayers being activated. We only got one episode of Angel exploring that.

Dushku really should have taken the Faith spinoff while she had the chance.

Ha, I agree with Emma Caulfield - Anya's death was really lame and there should have been some sort of reaction from the other characters.

I did not watch much the later years, but wasn't Anya pretty popular among the viewers. I remember fans of the show not being happy with her death.

I am probably in the minority, but I did not care for Faith that much (at least in Season 3 Buffy - did not see her later appearances except for on Angel, where she was better). I don't think I would have been motivated to watch her carry a show every week.

Faith turned down a spinoff? Was everything a go and she just had to sign the papers and she said no?

I think she was popular, R323. If her death had even had some kind of larger meaning, even that would have been better. But it just seemed like an afterthought.

I loved the Faith storyline in Season 3 (and Eliza Dushku in the role), but I think a spin off would have sucked. I never even cared for Angel.

Yes, Dushku turned down an offer to do a Faith spin off. It was a go as long as she accepted it. She chose to do Doll House instead.

Wasn't it Tru Calling that she did instead of Faith: Vampire Slayer?

But Dollhouse was Joss's show too. Why would he offer her Dollhouse if it meant she won't do Faith? You would think Joss would want to get Faith made to continue the Buffy universe and then cast anybody in Dollhouse.

It was called Faith: Vampire Slayer instead of Faith the Vampire Slayer?

I have no idea. I had to call it something.

It was Tru Calling she did instead - Dollhouse was after Buffy was already off the air.

Yeah, sorry, it was Tru Calling. Completely forgot about that show.

She still would have been better off doing the Faith series.

[quote]Yeah, sorry, it was Tru Calling. Completely forgot about that show.

So did the rest of America.

I thought Anya' s death was rushed and not discussed in the show because Emma Caulfield basically told Whedon that she had no intentions of doing the show (in case it was renewed) or any other potential spin offs anymore, and he decided to can her brutally for that.

I hadn't heard that, R334. What else did she have going on?

What has this bitch done in the last 14 years? Nothing. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

[quote]I thought Anya' s death was rushed and not discussed in the show because Emma Caulfield basically told Whedon that she had no intentions of doing the show (in case it was renewed) or any other potential spin offs anymore, and he decided to can her brutally for that

Killing her in that fashion as a punishment to the actress is kind of a FU to the fans. I could see killing her off because of that, but at least give the fans the closure they want instead of putting your own pettiness before that.

I was always disturbed by the way they killed Anya off. I wish it'd been Xander.

But Anya did get that great monolog in the penultimate episode about how no matter how people act most of the time, when they need to fight for something, they do, and don't give up.

I know nothing of it R335, I just read somewhere that she wanted out of a possible renewal or spin-offs, and didn' t want the chance to come back because she was tired, of working for that story and/or the character. The way I read about it made me think that she had been incredibly unpleasant in explaining this decision, but I wasn' t defending him, R337, because if he really killed the character that way to punish the actress, then it' s just further proof that he is incredibly unprofessional. No surprise there, by the way, he seems the kind of person who bitches at everything and everyone and badmouths whoever he can when things don' t go his way.

R340, the way I remember hearing it is that the actress ASKED to have her character killed off... because she didn't want to do any future spin-offs or reunion shows, she wanted to move on.

Well, it's Buffy... even if they kill you off... you can always be brought back. And she used to be a Demon so it wouldn't be that hard to explain bringing her back.

But there seems to be better ways to not come back for a spin off or reunion show... like just say no?

I doubt that she asked for that or felt that way though because it's not like she stayed away from the Buffy circuit for any period of time after the show.

Faith was really better as a recurring character and foil to Buffy. I think her bravado would have worn thin fast had she been spun off into her own series.

That said, I loved her during both her arcs on Angel and thought it was only fitting to bring her back for the closing episodes of Buffy.

I'm glad both Buffy and Angel did not get renewed. Their final episodes were fine closures, especially the Angel one. I tried to look at the comics but they just didn't interest me. I considered both sagas over and done with when their last shows aired.

Wasn't anyone interested in a Dawn spin-off???

They did try, rather poorly, to give Dawn her own Scrappy Gang in the final season.

I don't even remember Dawn having any friends except in The Body episode.

They had her with Willow and Xander analogs in one episode. The Xander guy was Latino, kind of pinged, and got a huge laugh out of me when he described Buffy as "the coolest mom ever."

So was Buffy ever a mom? She's 40 now and past child bearing age. Did Willow ever become a mom? Did Xander ever marry and have kids? Did Dawn or Faith ever marry and have kids? Or are they all childless because they were too busying fighting their own demons?

[Quote] Faith was really better as a recurring character and foil to Buffy. I think her bravado would have worn thin fast had she been spun off into her own series.

I agree and i also thought that James was supposed to join too. Which is why they had Faith and Spike spending time together in season 7.

[Quote] That said, I loved her during both her arcs on Angel and thought it was only fitting to bring her back for the closing episodes of Buffy.

I loved her arc on Angel in season 4. I enjoyed watching her kick Connor's ass.

[Quote] I'm glad both Buffy and Angel did not get renewed. Their final episodes were fine closures, especially the Angel one. I tried to look at the comics but they just didn't interest me. I considered both sagas over and done with when their last shows aired.

I think the plan was for Angel to have 7 seasons and the comics are supposed to be good. I haven't read Buffy's but from what i hear they're really far-fetched.

Agree r343. I'm a comic fan but I never had an interest in reading the Buffy comics. To me both shows ended fine and I felt they were finished.

Is it weird I thought Connor was cute? Yeah, he was definitely a whiny shit and eminently hateable. But pretty, too.

Weird also how there were blatantly I n cesty vibes from Angel/Connor through their entire arc, and then Connor inexplicably ended up banging his Mom instead. Angelus would totally have claimed Con before that realistically.

I hated Connor even more than Dawn. The storyline is Angel season four with him, evil Cordelia, and Jasmine nearly wrecked the entire series for me. I think the writers may have sensed this when they wrote Connor out at the end and then moved everything into Wolfrman & Hart.

Also, Dawn did have one friend in the Halloween episode. She's played by Amber Tamblyn. The two go on a double-date with guys who turn out to be vampires.

Unsurprisingly, it is the worst Halloween entry in the series.

I actually think a Faith spin off could have worked as we followed the story of her redemption. I know we were supposed to get the whole redemption theme from Angel, but I don't think they ever did a good job at it. Plus, unlike Angel, Faith's actions (and choices) were her own.

You' re right that Connor was even worse than Dawn. R532. Dawn was absolutely insufferable, but had some moments here and there that made me not want to see her shredded to pieces (they were few and far between, but they did exist): Connor was only tolerable when he was a toddler, but even that storyline was stupid as Hell. I am also pissed off that a genuinely good character like Darla had to die to ensure Connor' s birth, especially given how shitty the character became.

And I also agree about that Halloween episode being the worst. The big bad of the fourth season' s Halloween episode still cracks me up to this day.

EW posted another video segment from the reunion. I don't know why they don't release these all at once.

Anyway, interestingly this clip shows that indeed the rest of the cast (aside from Emma Caulfield) won't have anything to do with Nicholas Brendan. He's nowhere to be seen in this clip, although the rest of the cast is there. When Brendan was interviewed, he was only seen with Emma.

Wonder what the story is there.

I swear I'm the only person that actually LIKED season 4 of Angel. But in spite of hating Conner (I didn't hate him as much as everyone else, though, apparently), and as much as I hated Cordy being essentially sidelined, I actually really loved the plot/arc.

I didn't despise season four of Buffy, but it had some truly terrible episodes (Beer Bad, Where the Wild Things Are) and a real letdown of a Big Bad (Adam). I think the season got derailed by the exit of Linsday Crouse as Professor Walsh. She could have given the Initiative story some threat and a sense of purpose.

And season four did have some of the best episodes of the series: Hush, Something Blue, and Who Are You.

R355 Amber looking gorgeous in that clip, as ever. Does Hannigan know how lucky she got to play a couple with her?

I read an interview with Seth Green once where he mentioned he fell in unrequited love with Amber on the set of CAN'T HARDLY WAIT, and I admit I totally relate. She's beautifull, funny, talented, kind. Does she actually have any flaws?

[quote]Not only didn't she go very far, she's also a complete bitch on Twitter every single time someone dares call her Anya. I've never seen anything like it.

[quote]That was posted in one of the other threads but they didn't give any examples.

R152 So it's pretty funny that I stumbled over this here, but it was me who posted that in another thread and I stand by it still. Had to unfollow her a year or two ago after she had skinned an innocent fan who was clearly new to Twitter and just wanted to say hello to a favourite actor but made the (fatal) mistake of calling her by her character's name. I actually went through her timeline at the time and nearly lost my lunch when I saw the same pattern over and over again. It's like she was monitoring her mentions specifically for the word [italic]Anya[/italic] and then unloading on her poor fans.

So incredibly petty (maybe she's a Datalounger?) and it serves her right that this will forever remain her most well-known role. She was by far my favourite character back then.

Anyway, there's no gossip like Buffy gossip and I lapped up every single post in this thread. It says something about this show that it's still going strong after all these years. At first, I felt disheartened when I started reading gossip (and encountering Anya's Twitter account) after I had already finished this beloved show but now I'm capable of separating the production from the people who made it and I feel better about it once again. Maturity, I guess.

Damn what happened to Michelle??

Very nice to see the Twilight Saga cast!

R360 Nona, is that you?

361 LOL

"I'll Never Tell"

Charisma looks great.

[Quote] Earlier this year, the entire cast of Buffy the Vampire Slayer (except for Giles actor Anthony Head, who was performing a play) reunited alongside show creator Joss Whedon to mark its 20th anniversary and, among other things, finally put to bed whether Spike or Angel was the right man for our heroine. That correct answer is Riley, and we're not letting that one go.

Uh no Digital Spy, the correct answer is Angel.

R366 Speaking as a Spike fan, I can't believe they went with Riley. I think they're having a laugh because [italic]no way[/italic] can anyone have that opinion.

R367 Or they're high lol

R77 you know, I always assumed Benson & Green would be the two who got together down the line; they look cosy in the reunion photo. They had powerful (sadly unexplored) chemistry onscreen in BTVS. Seth also once admitted in a web interview years ago that he became besotted with Amber from afar (aw) when they worked on CAN’T HARDLY WAIT together.

They were only in about three or four episodes of BTVS together as Tara & Oz, but in those scant scenes they had more sexual tension that Oz & Willow had in two entire seasons. I remember watching the S4 episode ‘New Moon Rising’ when it aired and thinking Tara was struggling with an attraction to Oz. He was blatantly interested in her (or it was just bad acting).

There were always those boneheaded ‘shipping’ wars on the forums where people would tear each other apart over whether Willow was better with Oz or Tara. I would always think, “take a 3rd option; Willow ain’t shit & both deserve better than her.”

Riley was a nice normal guy who loved Buffy (ignoring when they torpedoed his character in season 5 after backlash in season 4) r368.

Sure he might have been "too boring" and not enough of a "bad boy" for Buffy/the audience, but I get the argument why he is the best person for Buffy to have a relationship with.

R357, Hush was the first episode I ever saw, caught it at random and decided to watch. I was disappointed that the rest of the series wasn't as good.

R352 isn’t Amber Tamblyn also the actress who played Christina Ricci’s bully in that Universal CGI-version of CASPER? WHET?

R315 if I had to guess I’d say that charming dentata-beastie was designed as an homage to the very similar monster featured in LucasFilms’ WILLOW.

[quote] There are the rumors of Hannigan being so mean towards Amber Benson (Tara) that Amber refused to return for a guest appearance after her character died...

Willow? I don’t know her.

R370 The criticisms levelled at Riley always bother me intensely, and I notice they come from people who miss the point of BTVS entirely.

The best way to look at Riley is as the protagonist of a different story, a fundamentally heroic human dropped into a world where monsters are the designated defenders of a people who don’t even know there’s a war on (and isn’t that topical?). Riley is a nice & normal mortal man who wants to prevent & minimise the suffering of others and so is of a different stripe to most BTVS characters, unlikeable to anyone who sympathises with this band of magical bullies for whatever reason).

Supernatural, enhanced or immortal beings in this ‘verse at the time of BTVS (ANGEL subverts the lore later on) are universally selfish abusers and either lack or lose their humanity. That’s why there’s always someone tasked to slay them, someone who can only be a few shades better than them herself if she wants to understand & defeat them. The mortals involved in the fight against these rapacious monsters must stoop to unspeakable depths to keep them at bay. The point of BTVS is that natural mortality & humanity is a great gift & a fragile precious luxury, that only some of us get to enjoy thanks to protectors like Buffy.

Spike is a great example of unsympathetic monstrosity. He was turned at a very young age, and throughout the centuries has ever remained the same petulant entitled young man he died as. Years upon years living & walking the earth didn’t give him a shred of compassion or knowledge, or any redeeming quality whatever. When we meet him he’s literally a darksided version of the gadabout he once was, a serial killer & rapist still with a flowery accent and a codependency issue. When we leave him dying in the Hellmouth he’s exactly the same, only he has a ‘heart’ this time around so he can martyr himself for glory. He’s a monster start to finish.

On the side of the so-called heroes, there’s Willow. Magick doesn’t give her any empathy or greater capacity to learn or to love; instead it turns her into a bitter & manipulative user who tries to hurt or control those she sees as ‘weaker’. This is tastefully conflated with her ‘coming-out’ (thanks, Joss); Will was kinder, deeper, and more of an integral & intelligent person as an awkward straight technophile than as a shifty gay witch. Her ex-boyfriend Oz does a better job of trying to protect & grow the good in himself, and he’s a goddamn werewolf with literally no control over what he’s doing with at least 1/3 of his time who has to live as an ascetic just to stop himself ripping someone’s head off.

Before Riley shows up, most every member of the Scoobies (with the exception of old Giles, dead Tara, and clueless kid Dawn..seeing a pattern?) and their antagonists become fundamentally dreadful individuals at core, at least from a humanist perspective. The supernatural characters in particular are despicable because they don’t have to develop skills, INT, empathy or any other human ability, being inhumans with advanced powers who live indefinitely long lives. But the ‘super’-humans aren’t exempt; Buffy Summers herself has a season or two of profoundly cruel behaviour in her closest relationships, developing enough callousness toward her own humanity to stoop to letting Spike abuse her and then taking out her shame on her own family (but perhaps she gets a pass, being under that Messiah pressure, and all...)

Riley was despised by Buffy et al. and anyone watching for his goodness, and because he wanted to actively espouse humanity in a world that could barely hang on to what humanity it had left. That is an unfair measure of a man dropped onto a field crawling with monsters....and that’s just the ones he’s supposed to fight alongside. In another tale he’d be the guy to root for and follow and take example from. In BTVS he’s maligned as ‘boring’ and ‘naive’ and ‘pointless’ because his mission is completely different to that of his team and because he’s a totally new kind of being - a good man.

I hated Riley back when the show was on the air. But now i don't mind him so much. I still don't think he was right for Buffy but i wish the writers had done the breakup differently.

Riley was a soldier who was thrown into the conflict between following orders and questioning the authority giving him his orders and the struggle that comes with it.

Buffy has always done her own thing and not what was in the Vampire Slayer Guide book or what Giles ordered her to do.

[quote] Seth also once admitted in a web interview years ago that he became besotted with Amber from afar (aw) when they worked on CAN’T HARDLY WAIT together.

There’s a cut scene in amongst the 40 minutes taken out of CHW between Amber & Seth’s characters.

In the scene Amber is playing a nameless stoned chick pawing throughout the fruit bowl at the house party all the characters go to, and Seth’s dorky character walks over to her and starts trying to game her. She completely ignores him in favor of staring at a banana, even trying to converse with it.

It’s hysterical, and exactly how I imagine their first meeting went in real life. They certainly do have an energy between them on-camera, but you can trust Whedon not to notice subtleties like that.

There are quite a few actors in Can't hardly Wait that were in Buffy. You had Seth, Amber, Eric Balfour, Clea Buvall and another girl who was part of Cordelia's clique.

About Oz....I never entirely settled on what the werewolf part of him represented.

Most of the demonic entities on BtVS have multiple metaphorical interpretations, like the XMen and their mutations, so Oz has to be read the same way. The clearest analogous disorder to the werewolf (at least to me) is disassociative depersonalisation; Oz can rarely remember what he does as a wolf and sees the wolf as a separate personality he cannot dominate, plus loses his language abilities in that form.

Where is gets confusing for me though is the “straight male violence” perspective that a lot of fans take. It is easy to compare Oz’s wolf to the uncontrolled rage of a man with a serious anger management problem, but the same is true for several of the demons & vamps featured on the show (I’m thinking of Spike & Anya here, particularly). I get how Oz treating Willow roughly and later threatening Tara physically correlates, but honestly while he is primal he doesn’t have half the ferocity of an Angelus or some such.

Then there’s the matter of the other werewolf we meet in his Arc, the rock siren Veruca. Her werewolf form is even more interested in rough sex & physical violence than Oz, and advocates killing where he does not. This completely undermines the “male violence” analogy and puts werewolves in more of a BPD/nympho/socio cast. It would have been good to get deeper, clearer ideas about wolves from BtVS.

R380 I must admit i never gave it much thought, but you're right that they could have expanded more on werewolves. I know there's also a werewolf called Nina who shows up on Angel in season 5.

I didn’t know until just now that Amber Benson hired her mother & various members of her family to help her produce her independent digital movie CHANCE. Her mother seems like a cool, gutsy woman. I also discovered that Amber dedicated CHANCE to a female friend of hers who died from cancer young, at just 30 years old.

It’s all in the CHANCE Q& A on YT. The video has been up for years but I have only just stumbled across it; I recommend it for fans.

I love Amber’s broad sense of humor, and had no idea she was so energetic & funny (the dour doe-eyed Tara is nothing like her).

It also appears that Amber Benson has Xtian beliefs, or at least belief in a Hell and a ‘God above’. I was taken aback by that as she doesn’t seem the type, but I suppose Birmingham, AL will do that to a person.

Didn’t Marsters write a creepy song about crushing on a young Trachtenberg?

R384 Yes, he did. It's called Dangerous and i can't with the part about her pretty little feet😳

Oh my various Gods, that’s vile.

Wasn’t Marsters already well into his 30s when he first met teenage Trachtenberg?

R386 Yep.

Was there ever any lesbian BTS action on Buffy? Even a girl crush, anything?

R388 I don't think so.

Joss sure did like to clit-tease viewers with Buffy/Faith, though.

His fascination with disturbingly thin women and with rape overtones puts me off even more.

R390, it’s funny you say that because there was an article around the time of Dollhouse where he made this big stink about hiring a plus size actress, and I believe he said to her at the audition “I just want you to know I think you’re very attractive.”

I remember cracking up because the subtext felt very much like “I just want you to know how special I am for considering screwing a wildebeest like you”

Dollhouse was fucking fantastic. It seems everyone disliked it except me.

The plus-size character, Mellie, was one of my favorites.

R392 I liked Dollhouse too. Unfortunately Eliza (and her character Echo) were outshined by her costars. I thought Enver Gjokaj was great, especially when he played Topher. And i thought Mellie had more chemistry with Paul.

Yes, every "Dollhouse" viewer fell in love with Enver Gjokaj, sad his career never went anywhere after the show.

It wasn't bad, but it was still the weakest Whedon show when you compare it to Buffy/Angel/Firefly.

[Quote] Yes, every "Dollhouse" viewer fell in love with Enver Gjokaj, sad his career never went anywhere after the show.

The last thing i saw him in was Agent Carter. I think he also had a tiny scene in The Avengers.

[Quote] It wasn't bad, but it was still the weakest Whedon show when you compare it to Buffy/Angel/Firefly.

I still haven't seen Firefly but i believe you.

And he was in a single episode of The Walking Dead. I am not sure he lived past the half-way mark.

He was the best doll by far. He easily had the most range.

My G-d, Tamoh Penikett was hot.

Dushku didn’t have what Tatiana Maslany has. Now she would have made a superb doll.

Olivia Williams played my favorite character. She’s so fucking tough and brilliantly ambiguous.

[Quote] He was the best doll by far. He easily had the most range.

Agreed.

[Quote] My G-d, Tamoh Penikett was hot.

I still think he is.

[Quote] Dushku didn’t have what Tatiana Maslany has. Now she would have made a superb doll.

She would've killed it.

[Quote] Olivia Williams played my favorite character. She’s so fucking tough and brilliantly ambiguous.

My favourite was Sierra. Talk about a tortured soul.

I loved Sierra too.

Fucking disgusting!

I was surprised to see David B participated in the reunion. I thought I heard/read somewhere that after moving on to his other hit shows that he no longer wanted to be remembered as Angel on Buffy. But obviously that wasn’t true.

I don't think David and Joss ended on the best of terms. But i'm glad he showed up for the reunion and doesn't seem to mind talking about Angel these days.

[quote]When I was 12 years old, while filming “True Lies”, I was sexually molested by Joel Kramer, one of Hollywood’s leading stunt coordinators. Ever since, I have struggled with how and when to disclose this, if ever. At the time, I shared what happened to me with my parents, two adult friends and one of my older brothers. No one seemed ready to confront this taboo subject then, nor was I. I am grateful to the women and men who have gone before me in recent months. The ever-growing list of sexual abuse and harassment victims who have spoken out with their truths have finally given me the ability to speak out. It has been indescribably exhausting, bottling this up inside me for all of these years. I remember, so clearly 25 years later, how Joel Kramer made me feel special, how he methodically built my and my parents’ trust, for months grooming me; exactly how he lured me to his Miami hotel room with a promise to my parent that he would take me for a swim at the stunt crew’s hotel pool and for my first sushi meal thereafter. I remember vividly how he methodically drew the shades and turned down the lights; how he cranked up the air-conditioning to what felt like freezing levels, where exactly he placed me on one of the two hotel room beds, what movie he put on the television (Coneheads); how he disappeared in the bathroom and emerged, naked, bearing nothing but a small hand towel held flimsy at his mid-section. I remember what I was wearing (my favorite white denim shorts, thankfully, secured enough for me to keep on). I remember how he laid me down on the bed, wrapped me with his gigantic writhing body, and rubbed all over me. He spoke these words: “You’re not going to sleep on me now sweetie, stop pretending you’re sleeping,” as he rubbed harder and faster against my catatonic body. When he was ‘finished’, he suggested, “I think we should be careful…,” [about telling anyone] he meant. I was 12, he was 36. I remember how afterwards, the taxi driver stared at me in the rear view mirror when Joel Kramer put me on his lap in the backseat and clutched me and grew aroused again; and how my eyes never left the driver’s eyes during that long ride over a Miami bridge, back to my hotel and parent.

For future reference, we're discussing Eliza's awful experience at the link below.

Bump

The only true Buffy

Nah, no one needs that Trump loving, "family values" homewrecking cunt.

If this is the Buffy gossip thread, then I will post my rumors here instead of the Joss thread.

I have heard from several people in the industry that she badmouthed the show behind the scenes, this started once she hooked up with FPJ. Which was funny to a lot of people that she seriously thought that Buffy was beneath her but signing up for dreck like Scooby Doo (1 &2) was fine. Also she had an affair with David (who was still married then) but I think that is well known.

She also looked down on the Buffy fandom (sad losers according to her) and wanted nothing to do with it. Now that 90s nostalgia is big with the Gen Z crowd, she is of course super proud of the show. Hmmm, okay....

James Marsters was definitely creepy towards Michelle, the song he wrote about her was already mentioned here. Yikes.

Alyson used to know how to party hard, especially when she was dating the drummer from Marilyn Manson.

[Quote] Which was funny to a lot of people that she seriously thought that Buffy was beneath her but signing up for dreck like Scooby Doo (1 &2) was fine. Also she had an affair with David (who was still married then) but I think that is well known.

She probably did Scooby Doo because she to got work with Freddie again. And she's basically playing Buffy. The affair with David doesn't surprise me. I'm sure he still cheats on his wife all the time.

R372 Tamblyn writes novels and does spoken-word now. Seriously.

Been rewatching the series from the start to distract me from holiday stress, and I realise that the world totally forgot about the Willow/Xander thing that was set up in the first two seasons (presumably as endgame). What was that about? And why did they abandon it? Willow in particular carried a torch for Xander for ten years, the kind of crush that doesn't just go away.

Don't get me wrong, I love the characters of Oz, Tara, and Anya having a presence in the series thanks to Willow & Xander, but I feel all three of those characters could have done better romantically than the core Scoobies and could have had more interesting things to do in the story besides acting as romantic props. Plus Hannigan & Brendon had more chemistry, sexual and platonic - guess because they actually liked and understood each other IRL, unlike other pairings. Their scenes as evil vampire lovers in the episode 'Dopplegangland' always stuck with me, because it was the one single episode where I found their characters compelling and believable as well as more attractive. Two bitchy, damaged people who at the time liked their intoxicants....suppose it makes perfect sense.

Years ago I remember Alyson said in an interview she once had a short sexual affair with Nick offset, that they now downplay and laugh off. Not sure how long it lasted or why it dissolved, but given the history of their relationships with other people presumably their fling was less than a year, and happened sometime fairly early on before Buffy became a cultural landmark and Brendon's drinking got to be a problem (so around those two seasons where Will & Xan had a thing in-plot). Wonder if that was awkward for SMG?

It's still so weird to me that Hannigan married the Wesley actor and had kids with him. Almost as weird as Amber Benson dating the Warren actor for years.

[Quote] and I realise that the world totally forgot about the Willow/Xander thing that was set up in the first two seasons (presumably as endgame).

I never thought they were going to be endgame. And Joss didn't either since he planned on having either Xander or Willow be gay/bi come out.

[Quote] It's still so weird to me that Hannigan married the Wesley actor and had kids with him. Almost as weird as Amber Benson dating the Warren actor for years.

Alyson and Alexis are cute. Although i had no idea Amber also dated James too.

R411

'... Joss didn't either since he planned on having either Xander or Willow be gay/bi come out."

I find it hard to believe that Joss Whedon ever seriously entertained the notion of writing a non-heterosexual male series regular. He only wrote lez action because it was part of his spank bank that he could draw inspiration from...

R412 there were hints at it. Like some of Xander's scenes with Larry. And i don't recall Joss having any other gay or lesbian characters on his other shows unless you count Lorne on Angel. So not sure what you mean by the spank bank thing.

R413

I mean, the only reason that he wrote any non-straight characters at all was because he, personally, was turned on by girl-on-girl action. I highly doubt he ever seriously entertained writing a male, non-straight series regular.

They should have made more use of Nicholas having a twin.

R413 Larry's coming-out was handled really well. I hate giving that overhyped creep Whedon credit for anything, but that was a nice touch.

That said, I don't believe there was any hint in those scenes and episodes of Xander being attracted to Larry or curious about men in general - the situation was merely a 'Mistaken For Gay' comedy of errors resulting out of Xander's natural compassion for people.

R411 Amber dated James Marsters? I knew they were good friends, and that she was keen to work with him on her movie CHANCE, but I didn't think they had hooked up or dated. That's a shame, as I really respect Amber and think she's beautiful, too good for someone like Marsters.

[Quote] as I really respect Amber and think she's beautiful, too good for someone like Marsters.

Well they didn't end up together. It could be worse, like being one of David's mistresses lol

The life cycle of relating to BtVS characters is: childhood-Xander, tweens/early teens-Willow & Oz, mid teens-Angel & Spike, late teens-Faith, early 20s-Buffy, late 20s-Wesley or Anya, 30s and above-Giles & Mrs. Summers.