Beloved musicals you can't stand, and why

The rap didn't bother me, the conservative inspired twisting of history did.

"Annie" - too hokey

PHANTOM OF THE OPERA - Never understood the appeal of this long-winded, boring slogfest

LES MISERABLES - ditto. I kept hoping the turntables would speed up and the actors would fly off, like at a fun house attraction. That, at least, would've been interesting.

SPAMALOT - The audience was screaming with laughter, but I didn't see what was so funny. But then I've never 'gotten' Monty Python either

THE PRODUCERS - Not sure I'd call it 'beloved' since it's been mercifully left unrevived and ignored since the original production closed. If you've seen the Zero Mostel / Gene Wilder movie, there's no point in seeing the show, it adds nothing except unmemorable songs and banal lyrics

THE BOOK OF MORMON - Again, I felt like everyone was in on the joke but me. The opening number was pleasant enough, but then show descended into a morass of puerile, tasteless, unfunny jokes with idiotic, tuneless songs. I was actually angry after seeing this show. Angry that I spent my money, angry that I bought into the hype, angry that I wasted two and a half hours. I wanted to slap an usher on my way out

I love musicals in general, and will see most of them multiple times, but the ONLY "one and done" for me is "Cats". Now and forever? Now and NEVER again.

THE MUSIC MAN - I like the movie, but I've never seen a live production that did not seem corny and twee

HELLO, DOLLY! - I find even the movie corny and twee

MAME - The songs just aren't very good

OKLAHOMA! - Great songs, but a dull, dull story. Nothing happens.

The Wizard of Oz- Loved it once upon a time, but now done so many times I find it extremely annoying.

Hamilton. It was just too much hype. And I too, can rhyme Burr with Sir.

Everything R5 said, plus:

Rent (hate the songs except the 525600 minutes song).

West Side story - Boring

[quote] MAME - The songs just aren't very good

Huh?

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, and I could understand criticism of the book, but the songs are wonderful. 'Open A New Window', 'It's Today', 'Bosom Buddies', 'Gooch's Song', 'Mame', and 'If He Walked Into My Life Today' are as good as anything written for a musical.

Some of you are Philistines. Oklahoma, West Side Story, and Hamilton are great musicals.

South Pacific. Even in the context of the time it was set, Nellie Forbush can't get past the fact that she's fallen in love with the father of "half-breeds." Such an obnoxious bitch.

Face it, Hamilton sucks. It was super hyped by People and Entertainment and Obama and Michelle. Michelle said it is the best art ever created of any genre any time period. Shows what little she knows about great art and music. The financial backers also hyped this dumb unhistorical musical. The staging looks like middle school musical. The shrieking rap is dreadful. Can we make a white version of Raisin or Porgy and Bess? Why not? Mormon also sucked...the opening was great but the rest sucked. Wicked is another horrible show for flyover cunts/fags with the screaming Idina Mozeltoff...ugh. I hated Lion King...strictly for retards and those with minds of 3 year olds. The best musicals of the last decade were Drowsy Chaperone and Young Frankenstein.

Hamilton is the barely competent, tryhard race-replacement fantasy of an insecure, affluent, connected, barely-of-color dork who wishes he was street.

R13, and appeals to white audiences because it eases their "white guilt" and they can prove that they're hip and not racist.

r9 - Little known fact: Originally Angie and Bea performed that number as dueling Stritchs.

Them's fighting words, R11. In my opinion, SOUTH PACIFIC is the perfect American musical.

[quote] Even in the context of the time it was set, Nellie Forbush can't get past the fact that she's fallen in love with the father of "half-breeds." Such an obnoxious bitch.

You do realize that the mayor of Little Rock, asked President Eisenhower to send federal troops to enforce integration and protect the nine students trying to attend Central High School. Governor Orval Faubus deployed the Arkansas National Guard to support the segregationists.

This was in 1957, 8 years after SOUTH PACIFIC was written and 12 years after the war ended.

DROWSY CHAPERONE was obnoxiously twee with a forgettable score that never sounded like the 1920s musical it was supposed to be. And "Man In Chair" seemed creepy and pervy, the sort of guy who would have human body parts in his freezer.

[quote]the sort of guy who would have human body parts in his freezer.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Cabaret, Oklahoma, Plain & Fancy (not a Broadway hit, but a big it in summer stock) bore me.

I left the Book of Mormon thinking that the LDS ought use boredom in a defamation against that musical's creator.

Applause overrated in 1970; popular for a spell; thank God it is almost forgotten

1776 made my 11th grade history class more interesting in comparison.

The book for Annie Get Your Gun is horrible; the score is one of the greatest in American history; that musical ought to be performed only in a concert format

I don't get Sweeney Todd or Assassins, bur I love Pacific Overatures

For some reason, I never liked Brigadoon

Anyone who doesn't like "Wizard of Oz" and "1776" can die in a grease fire.

So many of the popular beloved musicals of the last 30 years are just awful.

Les Miz and Miss Saigon are terrible...most of Lloyd Webber is dreck (Evita has its charms).

Wicked is just....bad. Steven Schwartz is a terrible song writer and the book is puerile.

Rent is really a juvenile mess. I loved the album when it originally came out but...the show isn't actually very good. Clunky book and badly staged in my opinion.

Book of Mormon was ok the first time I saw it but it hasn't aged well with me. It's not a good book and there's really only a couple ok songs.

I do have problems sitting through many of the mega musicals of the 60s. They all seem so lumbering and old fashioned. Dolly, Mame, Fiddler, LaMancha...maybe they need new books/orchestrations? They need freshening.

That all said, I think Drowsy Chaperone is clever and charming. South Pacific is one of the great American musicals. I don't really understand hating West Side Story or Sweeney Todd or Annie or The Music Man....all major works with great scores/books. (Yeah...I understand it's all subjective).

I still love The Wizard of Oz but I also understand being burnt out from it. I love Rocky Horror and Hedwig but both are so overproduced.

Crazy for You, 42nd Street, My One and Only and Nice Work If You Can Get It all made me want to vomit.

"I still love The Wizard of Oz but I also understand being burnt out from it."

YOU understand being burnt out from it?!?!

Try being ME!!!!!

Try going through life having to sing "Over the Fucking Rainbow" 800 zillion fucking times!!!!

But yeah, YOU'VE been burned out!

"Phantom of the Opera" owns this thread. It exists only to impress yokels.

Hamilton, one of the worst nights we spent in the theater, interest that since the OBC vanished from it the buzz is kinda silent? I know the box office is still robust, but friends who just saw it were perplexed about the mania.

Sound of Music, it's boring.

Carousel - hokey songs and silly misogynist story

Oklahoma - hokey songs and weird story

Newsies - lame

Candide

Guys and Dolls - never liked it.

Hamilton also appeals to flyovers who know nothing about theatre; probably their first experience at a play. Bunch of hams. What about the screaming queen Aladdin? Makes Richard Simmons, Liberace, and drag queens look butch. Nevr liked West Side Story or Chorus Line. But Hamilton really is perplexing. I know the hillbillies gawking at tall buildings loves them some Today show and Kelly Ripa and Rachel Ray...are they loving H.b/cthey are told to, b/c they think they have to? I know Whoopi & all the NYC promoters have raved--trying to perpetuate the myth that NYC is relevant/special. The mixed up history/sophomoric staging and music is staggering.

Isn't WICKED one of those rare shows that debuted to bad reviews but somehow survived?

Carousel - "Can a person hit you, really hard, and you not feel it at all?"

"Yes"

No, stupid, you're being abused and setting up your daughter to also be an abuse victim.

ALL OF 'EM

With the exception of Xanadu and The Wizard of Oz. (films ONLY)

Omg. I so hate musicals and opera. I'm a classless hick. Whatev. But I just can't do the breaking out into song bit. The dancing parts I love. I might actually be able to sit through a ballet and be thoroughly entertained.

[quote] Oklahoma - hokey songs and weird story

I am really shaking my head on this one.

The play is set in Oklahoma Territory in 1906, with a cowboy and a farm girl as its central characters. Would you have been happier if Laurey had sung 'Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered' instead of 'Out of My Dreams'?

The Producers, just boring

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned "Fiddler on the Roof." The songs just weren't that good. And 1776. Horrible music. I also walked out of "Sunday in the Park with George." Like watching Seurat paint dry.

Most of them, especially those wretched Fox Technicolor musicals with Betty Frank's and Alice Faye. The only musicals that I can sit through are WEST SIDE STORY and FUNNY GIRL. The former because it combined entertainment with social commentary, the latter primarily because of Barbara's star power.

Meet Me in St. Louis. Yes, a few notable songs, but the story is as interesting as St. Louis. Fun Home. Didn't like it.

'Merrily We Roll Along' I've been to see it twice and never made it past the interval (I used to get free theatre tickets for almost every UK touring show). I've never seen any Sondheim productions since.

This perennial piece of shit.

I like the music, but, jeezy creezy, My Fair Lady is goddam ENDLESS.

[quote]Betty Frank's

Who the hell is Betty Frank?

Into the Woods

Gypsy, ever fucking note of it

CAROUSEL -- superlative score, horrendous book. Should only be performed in concert.

SHOW BOAT -- mixed feelings here. Way too long, but by leaving parts out, the flow of the story is lost. Again, a superlative score, but the show ought to be performed in concert.

GUY AND DOLLS -- The Best Broadway Musical Ever.

FIDDLER ON THE ROOF --The Second Best Broadway Musical Ever.

GYPSY: Never understood why everyone loves it so much. Just seems meh. I saw Tyne Daly in it; she was good I guess, but the show has never done much for me.

RENT: what a waste! If the composer hadn't died the night before the first preview, it would have flopped. Boring score. ( And why is it that only people of color are the gay characters, while the two white male leads are both relentlessly straight?)

ASSASSINS and PASSION: A few good songs, but not very good shows. Both ultimately lugubrious.

Massive WW for R21 and R23! I've always felt your pain "JG"!

Kismet

Hamilton - saw it for free, so I can't be too critical, except for the vast revisionism of history, and its relentless bombast. Thank goodness for a few hot butts on chorus guys.

Rent - I refuse to all caps the title, which is inane to begin with. Horrid dual plagiarism (a Sarah Schulman novel 'People in Trouble' and 'LaBoheme') from that dead no-talent; despicable sellout version of downtown poverty for the tourist set. Ironic in his depiction of squatters who won't sell out, told in a crassly composed LOUD obnoxious score, by a sellout. All the gay singers who moan its songs at benefits cue me to leave the room.

Camelot - I'd offer a critique, but I fell asleep each time I tried to watch it live, or the schlocky film.

Cats - hate it, now and forever.

Les Miserables - what is that, five hours long?

FOLLIES!

CAROUSEL oof. That book SOUTH PACIFIC Endless. 11 pm map room scene? GUYS AND DOLLS Piercing keys.

I love musicals but never cared for the movie, The Sound of Music.

I hate everything about Cats. Including Eliot's stupid poems.

Evita and Hair (yet I love both films)

Dreamgirls - walked out of the original production at intermission. Recently I tried to watch the film version when it was on TCM, but I just couldn't get past the first half hour.

Mamma Mia - I was already very familiar with ABBA's songs when the musical came out. Its plot seems so contrived and artificial in order to link the songs, I just can't sit through it.

LES MISERABLES – The original Broadway cast held my interest. But every repeated viewing since has been a tough slog. Especially once they cut twenty minutes out of it so the stage hands could go home earlier, and now it doesn’t make any sense. I can’t stand Babette (or whatever her name is, in the large beret and oversized trenchcoat) who whines so much and is so dreary that they just have to kill her. Although the best part is when they shoot and kill that obnoxious Goatcheese child actor on the barricade. If more Broadway musicals killed child actors, they’d all be much more enjoyable.

GODSPELL – I have no patience for all that giddy bad-acting-class improv. Just shut up already and get to the three songs that are somewhat pleasant.

JOSEPH…DREAMCOAT – Go, go, go Joseph and never come back. I’m not sure I could sit through this one again, even if all the brothers were naked.

NUNSENSE – The original off-Broadway cast was hysterical. But I think that’s because I was stoned when I saw it. The “Snorting Poppers” scene has never been funny since. Maybe it wasn’t that funny the first time.

BRIGADOON – Great score. But the book is boring. And too many clashing tartan plaids hurt my eyes.

THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA – I never understood this show, so its appeal has always alluded me. Does he really possess magical powers? How is that possible? Where does the noose come from? What’s with the mannequin in the chair? And why does everyone all sing at once? If what they were saying was important, they wouldn’t sing over each other so we could hear what they had to say and whether it was significant to the plot or not. And I just think how dusty the Majestic must be backstage, with the same set and curtains in the same spot for thirty years.

LA CAGE AUX FOLLES – After the opening number, this show makes my skin crawl. And I don’t understand the whole “Papa gets the best part and now I kick my foot” running gag. The screaming maid annoys the fuck out of me and is not funny – if that was my house, s/he’d be on the unemployment line yesterday. I used to hate “Song in the Sand”, but now I kind of like it, though.

Rent. Never liked it, and even seeing it as an angsty teenager I could tell that despite being the villain, Benny was the only redeeming character. Atrocious music and a horribly indulgent and self-important story-- just pay your goddamn rent like the rest of us!

I love musicals but you couldn't pay me to even watch that stupid movie Julie Andrews made for Walt Disney, or even mention it by name. [italic]The Sound of Music[/italic], on the other hand, I can watch over and over again from start to finish.

[quote] Rent (hate the songs except the 525600 minutes song).

Agree. Love that song, the other songs seem weird and disjointed. Hard to explain

Oliver. Lying. Stealing. Child abuse. Spousal abuse. Murder. All set to music. WTF?

What am I, R45, chopped liver?

Or do you perhaps think I really am green?

The Sound of Music - hate it!

West Side Story - stupid

Hello, Dolly! - terrible

R60 = moron

I don't think Nunsense , Plain & Fancy, and The Drowsy Chaperone count as beloved musicals.

Grease needs a grease fire. Stupid unfunny 50's rehash.

Guys and Dolls: some good songs, but I'm fed up with cute gangsters.

Cats: I hate Cats. Fucking boring. Only one decent song which has been done to death everywhere.

And the same goes for Starlight Express and that Joseph crap. And no one's ever been able to stage a decent Superstar.

Oklahoma: beautiful score but horrible slog of a book.

Passion: buy the album; the show was like the musical version of Dracula's Daughter.

Nobody gives a shit about [italic]Starlight Express[/italic].

{QUOTE] And the same goes for Starlight Express and that Joseph crap. And no one's ever been able to stage a decent Superstar.

I have to agree about Andrew Lloyd Webber musicals, they are all terrible

There are some lovely songs in THE MUSIC MAN but I loathe the small-town gosh-darn old-time white Americana setting, especially with children. The 1890 -1920 era was a big favorite with American musical theater and films and only a few of them are bearable today.

I love Alice Faye & Betty Grable but I must agree with r36: despite some lovely moments like Faye introducing "You'll Never Know" and Grable crooning "My Heart Tells Me" in a bathtub , Fox's "Gay '90s - Good old days of Vaudeville musicals", are a leaden and a huge slog to sit through. And despite Judy, "For Me And My Gal" is of the same ilk. I do enjoy THE DOLLY SISTERS, though - it helps that Jack Oakie is not in it.

The Eulalie McKechnie Shinns of the world are not just eccentric old biddies complaining about "dirty" books. They are dangerous fascists.

What I'm fed up with is any and all attempts to depict heterosexuality in a positive light for anything post-1978 when the first test tube baby was born.

Mamma Mia is truly the stupidest thing I've ever seen. The movie is even worse. At least most of the people on stage could sing. There's barely any plot to speak of and we learn nothing about the characters the entire time. Awful.

I liked Jesus Christ Superstar ((slinks away))

West Side Story. Yeah gang members flitting around ballet-style. Yeah right.

[quote]And I too, can rhyme Burr with Sir.

Do you suppose at any point during its composition someone turned to him and said, "You know, it's really annoying that Alexander Hamilton keeps rhyming 'Burr' with 'Sir'"?

I wish someone had.

There was a really awful Disney musical I saw when I was a kid, Angela Lansbury in Bedknobs and Broomaticks. Evan t 11 years old, I could tell that one was a stinker.

Crazy for You makes my teeth ache . . . and it's being revived!

Hamilton. Book of Mormon. Jekyll and Hyde. Bring in Noise. In the Heights. Hamilton is the dumbest, most overhyped, piece of unaryistic shit i have ever seen. Overly enthused untalented junior high style blocking and dancing. LUDICROUS historical people...hey lets change history! And now this jerk is in Mary Poppins the movie? I'd just as soon takr my kids to see an X rated movie. for some reason that reminds me of another p.o.s., A Little Night Music. A weekend in the country? A weekend walking out of a sing song dumbass production.

R72, you have no taste, no heart, and no right to live on this planet anymore. [italic]Bedknobs and Broomsticks[/italic] is the greatest movie ever made, and anyone who dislikes it on any grounds deserves to die in a grease fire, now go bobbing along at the bottom of one you racist sexist antisemitic homophobic piece of Nazi-loving shit.

[quote]And now this jerk is in [smarmy narcissistic English umbrella jockey] the movie? I'd just as soon takr my kids to see an X rated movie.

An X-rated movie would be less painful and annoying and less damaging to your children's social development, as well as more honest about human sexuality.

"Grease". Nice middle class girl succumbs to peer pressure and becomes a slut. The songs are mostly terrible, although the writers might suggest they were modeled on bad songs themselves. The new songs written for the movie are much better than the stage originals.

Wicked and Rent co-own this thread.

Anyone who uses "too long" as a complaint needs to see a doctor for an ADD diagnosis.

Rock, country, hip-hop, and untzuntz have lowered the bar for music and, sadly, musicals have followed suit since that's what's "in" even though much of it is just not very good and has pushed out other more harmonically complex styles of music such as jazz and classical, which used to be the basis of showtunes. Most of the musicals of the last 40 years have seemed to suffer from bland tunes and unmemorable lyrics and sound like dumbed-up MOR pop while few new showtunes ever become crossover pop hits anymore.

Another vote for "Rent." A play about a bunch of assholes who don't want to pay their rent. It had brilliant lyrics like:

We're not gonna pay!

We're not gonna pay!

We're not gonna pay!

Last year's rent!

This year's rent!

Next year's rent!

Rent! Rent! Rent! Rent! Rent!

We're not gonna pay rent!

Add my voice to the chorus of [italic]Rent[/italic]-bashing. All they're doing is spouting a bunch of platitudes about art over mushy songs that sound like cheesy fake-smiley Protestant hymns while trying to justify being a deadbeat. And it's kind of racist to make the villain a black man especially when HE'S HOLDING THEM TO A CONTRACT THAT EVERY ONE OF THEM AGREED TO. He's the good guy. They pissed away every opportunity and sacrificed their careers to the cult of "authenticity" and inspired a lot of other people to do the same, thus setting them up for failure, too.

And yes, I believe Jonathan Larson's death had a lot to do with its popularity. He was no "lost genius." Howard Ashman, on the other hand, truly was a lost genius, and his death was the greater loss to both Broadway and Hollywood. No one else who ever set foot on the Disney studio lot could top him as a lyrical craftsman. Not even the Sherman Brothers.

R80, that's ridiculous. What happened is that popular music moved away from Broadway. They changed, Broadway didn't. There are examples of relatively recent Broadway songs that became crossover hits but generally speaking, Broadway songs only exist on Broadway. The Broadway the Golden Age documentary aptly noted that Hollywood once came to Broadway for ideas, not the other way around. The same could be said for music.

There were those who said Broadway was a dumbed down version of Opera. Where is Opera today?

I think Gigi is creepy. A grandmother wants her daughter to be a courtesan? How was this a hit in the repressive 50s? Call child protective services.

R81, I agree about the lyrics, but am disappointed that you didn't include this inspiring and life-changing stanza: "They say that I have the best ass Below 14th Street, is it true?"

[quote]There were those who said Broadway was a dumbed down version of Opera. Where is Opera today?

Charlie Nobody, that's who!

[quote] Hamilton is the dumbest, most overhyped, piece of unaryistic shit i have ever seen.

I hate shit that's unaryistic!

Grease

Guys and Dolls

CATS -- really pointless and repetitive, though I love the music/songs and OLD POSSUM'S BOOK OF PRACTICAL CATS

THE SOUND OF MUSIC -- love the film version, but the stage show is a snoozefest! The screenwriter greatly improved on the original book. Same with...

WEST SIDE STORY -- hate the stage show and believe that the film adaptation is superior in every way

GREASE -- never understood this movie's appeal and I've never been a pretentious musical theater geek. I like the music but didn't care for any of the characters, except for Frenchie.

OKLAHOMA -- simple story that did not require 2+ hours to tell; fast-paced Act One that quickly slows down to a snail's pace in the second act and then some weird impromptu murder and trial on the same night. WTF?

Sweeney Todd, Company -- well, really anything by Sondheim. Fucking boring. Horrible songs and horrible characters.

I certainly hope those of you posting here listen to the CDs of Forbidden Broadway. Gerard Alessendrini should be one of Datalounge's patron saints.

Video of the performances are hard to come by, but here's one from a 30th Anniversary concert. Just watch, you're bound to find something amusing... and Liza's included!

Spamalot was a huge disappointment!

Hello Dolly: a couple of good songs, but the rest, OY!

South Pacific: corny and predictable, and "Some Enchanted Evening" was milked, in the production I saw, to the point that I never want to hear it again.

Newsies: haven't seen the movie, and didn't want to after sitting through the endless stage musical, which was without a moment of charm or originality.

Les Miz, Les Miz, Les Miz, a thousand times Les Miz. There are a million shows that I don’t care for, but I understand what others see in them. Not this one.

CATS

I thought it was just me. So glad others agree. WICKED, 1776 and MAMMA MIA are three worst shows in history!

I can't with Phantom of the Opera. And most of ALW actually.

Hamilton. I don't think the DL servers have the capacity to handle all the reasons why.

[quote]I'm surprised nobody has mentioned "Fiddler on the Roof." The songs just weren't that good

Amen, R35! The songs are pretty depressing, and the play is way, way too ethnic. (Yes. I know what it's about. It just comes off as way too heavy-handed.)

My other hated musical is [italic]Carousel.[/italic] Jesus, talk about DEPRESSING. And misogynistic. And pointless. "The Carousel Waltz" sounds like it should be used as a background piece in [italic]The Twilight Zone.[/italic] I wouldn't watch it again if you paid me $50.

Follies

Okay, people are going to shoot me but I absolutely hate Singing in the Rain for the following reasons:

1. It ripped off "Be a Clown" for "Make Em Laugh."

2. The movie did a very bad job trying to make a "real musical" out of the random musical numbers that was chosen for the movie. Many of the numbers were obviously shoe-horned in or filler. For example, the famous Cyd Charisse number makes absolutely no sense within the context of the story. (It's supposed to be Gene Kelly brainstorming for his silent movie, but it's anachronistic and doesn't make sense.)

3. The last scene was so stupid. There was never any doubt that Don loved Kathy and that he and Cosmo were on her side 100% of the time. But when they put on a show for the studio bosses pretending to yell at her to lip sync, she runs off going, "Boo hoo hoo! I can't believe they betrayed me!" Bitch, just a minute ago they were sticking up for you. You really thought they turned on you on a dime?

R101 Well said. The jokes are also relentlessly corny.

I don't know if Funny Face is beloved, but I cannot stand it. Fred Astaire is way too old for Audrey Hepburn, the romance is cliche and predictable as hell, the numbers so boring and forgettable, and the script paint by numbers. The mockery of Beatnik culture was lame, lame, lame.

And everybody slept walked through this movie except Kay Thompson, who totally stole the show and seemed to be the only person who gave a damn.

I don't really like Funny Girl much at all. I think the score is great and there are great moments here and there, but it seems like the scenes and songs work well by themselves but not as part of a whole. It kinda bores me.

I can't imagine anyone having anything bad to say about Gypsy unless their only exposures to the material are through the two awful filmed versions.

I walked out of both Wicked and Rent and I usually stick with anything out of respect for the performers.

Add Fela to the list too. I hate audience participation and headed straight for the exits.

On the other hand I did love Phantom of the Opera. It was campy and silly and quite entertaining.

"You're a Good Man, Charlie Brown" Die and go to Hell already!

Rent Cats Rocky Horror Picture Show Evita Jesus Christ Superstar

MAME has a great book, of course, but the songs are very weak. Only "If He Walked into My Life" is a classic--none of the others became standards, and deservedly so.

It's funny, because HELLO, DOLLY! has a godawful twee book (repeated non-jokes like "the celebrated half-a-millionaire" are grotesquely cutesy-poo), but it has so many great songs: the title number, "Elegance," "Before the Parade Passes by," "So Long, Dearie."

I agree the book for CAROUSEL is pretty weak, although the way "You'll Never Walk Alone" is brought in twice at the end of each act gets me both times.

I don't like A CHORUS LINE that much. It has a few great melodies, and I was blown away by the staging of the original production, but the characters are flat and some of the songs are weak., and the lyrics aren't much.

Everything that's come out since "Wicked" and "Avenue Q". None of these musicals from 2004-onwards have any hit songs. Name a famous song from any Tony award winning musical since 2005. It's hard to think of any that are really going to be remembered. The song has to become somewhat known outside the Broadway geek community.

I actually think Mame has a far stronger score than book. Something feels off about it. It doesn't seem to be firing on all cylinders like the original play. The musical numbers give us a welcome relief from it.

Sure, put the blame on Mame.

[quote]CATS -- really pointless and repetitive, though I love the music/songs

There is a reason why poetry and song lyrics are different art forms. The only decent song is the one not based solely on Eliot’s poems.

Book of Mormon is stupid and annoying, and not the least bit funny.

Joseph/Dreamcoat was written for children to perform, and should never, ever be performed by adults.

Carousel has one of the most amazing scores ever, but is unwatchable because of the slap scene.

On the other hand, Phantom is fun if vapid, But Love Never Dies is the worst piece of shit I have ever seen on a stage.

Does anyone with any self respect like Cats? That is the biggest piece of shit I have ever seen in stage. I wanted to kill myself the one and only time I saw it.

^ I'm so baffled by the popularity of Cats. (Wasn't it the longest running musical on Broadway? I'm so baffled.) I didn't see it live; I think I might've seen a televised version that PBS ran years ago. It was the most boring thing I'd ever seen.

Not to defend Cats, but you literally had to be there. It was all about the environmental experience. Watching it on TV would never capture it.

I’ve also never seen a musical date quite as quickly as Cats. Even though it existed out of a specific era, the music was very early eighties. Those synths! But more than that, it was dwarfed by bigger, better spectacles over the years, and once the novelty was gone, you saw just how little meat there was on the bones.

Cats was never good. People who saw it early on were just as baffled by its popularity (unless they were simpletons).

r110 I just saw a concert/staged reading version of "Mame," never having seen it on stage before. It certainly pales in comparison to "Auntie Mame." I hate the omissions and revisions, and it did not live up to my expectations at all.

Someone needs to revise Mame by throwing away the book and starting over picking apart the source material. The book we ended up with to the musical wasn't really true to the intent because of needing to appease the audience of the time -- and now it is doubly offensive.

[quote]The book we ended up with to the musical wasn't really true to the intent because of needing to appease the audience of the time

How do you mean?

Lion kIng....so painful to watch , I was numb with boredom.

I hate the Sound of Mucus. Hate it.

[quote]Not to defend Cats, but you literally had to be there.

Doesn't that speak to its weakness as a musical, though? A musical is supposed to be about the music, story and characters, not any "experience."

This reminds me. Another musical I can't stand is The Rocky Horror Picture Show.

Has Sondheim ever wrote a hummable tune?

If you can sing it, you can hum it

R123 Yes, Jerry: he has wrote "Comedy Tonight", "Broadway Baby", "I'm Still Here", and "Send in the Clowns".

Every musical sucks except Follies.

I don't understand the NYC theater queen hatred of The Drowsy Chaperone, since the man in the chair is most of you.

The man in the chair didn’t even like himself

And NYC theater queens do?

Exactly

Tap Dance Kid and Little Johnny Jones

Wicked is at the top of my list. While I can appreciate the story (it's an interesting concept), the music is just painful. It's as if it were written for fat amateur women to belt at the top of their burdened lungs. Another for Book of Mormon, didn't find it funny (despite liking South Park humor), music was unmemorable and was baffled at why the ticket cost so much. The other I was sorely disappointed with was Ragtime. While I enjoyed some of the music, most of it was awful, the sets were just lame and the whole thing just felt like some SJW crap set way back in the day. It might be just be me getting older but I don't feel like I've seen any original theater, post-2000, that I've enjoyed. I also am not a fan of Rent, but some of the music is catchy (so I guess can technically "stand" it). I'd see it again for free.

I agree with the poster above defending Cats. It really was cool seeing it live in a small theater (I was a child so maybe my thoughts would be different now). I will acknowledge the music is jankety, but it has a special place in my heart. I also ardently disagree with anyone trashing Phantom. I know it's over-hyped, but I do think it's an absolutely gorgeous musical, aurally and visually (the original, not the new production). Bjornson's set and costume designs, I think, are probably the greatest to ever grace a stage. And I do think ALW did an excellent job with that music, matching melodies and scoring to the overarching action.

The score of Mame was very popular at the time. I think it's a terrific score with a book that doesn't stand up. The original film though does.

We Need a Little Christmas has become a Christmas classic. And though the lyrics to the song of Mame today are politically incorrect it was a standard at the time with several terrific covers.

When I saw the dreadful film at a packed Radio City on a late Sunday afternoon after waiting on line over two hours to get in during the title number 6,000 people started single along to the song. I was pretty shocked. Almost everybody knew the lyrics. At least enough did that it seemed like everybody. And the whole audience broke into applause at the end of it. A great cinema experience despite the film being a dog.

Sweeney Todd.

God do I hate that piece of shit. I'd rather sit through the rotten Chorus Lane 10 times in a row than see Sondheim's masturbatory kinky dungeon cannibalistic fantasy ever again.

Musicals that I will see over and over again (different productions): West Side Story, Ragtime, The Drowsy Chaperone, The Full Monty, The Marvelous Wonderettes, Merrily We Roll Along, Forever Plaid, Sweeney Todd, Company, Follies, Oklahoma, South Pacific, La Cage Aux Folles.

Musicals I've seen once and never want to see ever again: Cats.

Every single one of them...they make my ears bleed...

Masturbatory kinky dungeon cannibalistic fantasy? You couldn't dredge up any more meaningless adjectives?

The title number Mame filmed on a real plantation is one of the most thrilling and goosebump-inducing sequences in musical picture history. Too bad the rest of the movie couldn’t equal that.

I agree, R138! She reminds me so much of my mom in that scene.

and: "Oliver. Lying. Stealing. Child abuse. Spousal abuse. Murder. All set to music. WTF?" Snowflake much?

Miss Saigon, the never-ending perpetuation of the myth that an Asian (Oriental) woman would wait for a white man, despite being abandoned.

Book of Mormon- in your face offensiveness for no real reason. THE FUNNIEST THING is that the diehard fans are all liberal 22 year olds who see the show 84 times a year with their parent's money.

Dear Evan Hansen- generic piece of shit

Miss Saigon- everything you disliked about Les Mis only with racism

Also not beloved but Love Never Dies is an abomination. Worst night of theatre I've ever been to. Anyone know if it's going to get to Broadway?

Well Asian gay men lament the fact that white men aren't attracted to them so some stereotypes die hard.

Ok, can someone explain to me why Mame is considered offensive in this day and age? I assume people are referring to the end of act 1 plantation scenes. It's strange, because I don't remember anything offensive about those. I don't remember anyone making racist remarks or anything of that sort. Are we supposed to be offended, because the show doesn't treat people from the south like racists? Isn't the whole point of those scenes about how Mame can warm the hearts of anyone? I swear, some people are just looking to be offended by something.

The "Mame" hunting scene was stolen from the great early movie musical "Love Me Tonight" (a deer hunt instead of a fox) and later used on "I Love Lucy"

[quote]MAME has a great book, of course, but the songs are very weak. Only "If He Walked into My Life" is a classic--none of the others became standards, and deservedly so.

Because of course We Need a Little Christmas, Bosom Buddies, Open a New Window, and the title song have never been heard outside of community and dinner theater productions.

Off to the bad: Phantom - one hit song & a chandelier.

Cats - one hit song & a great concept that faded over time.

Miss Saigon - One hit song & and a helicopter.

Les Miz - One hit song (and France?).

The Sound of Music - Sentimental dreck based on a supposed real story that existed in someone's imagination, only the family name has not been changed. Maria was a plain looking, slave driving gorgon who was hired to tutor one of the 7 existing von Trapps and was married to the "Captain" well before the Anschluss ( actually they married in1927), plus she had already had three children with him before they left Europe. Plus - they left Austria on a fucking train (no picturesque Alpine crossings involved) - to Italy. While the movie is OK, the stage version is a boring, meandering, sentimental mess.

[quote]Miss Saigon, the never-ending perpetuation of the myth that an Asian (Oriental) woman would wait for a white man, despite being abandoned.

You're oversimplifying to sell your agenda. First of all, Chris didn't purposely abandon her; they were separated during the Fall of Saigon. Secondly, she had his child so naturally she would want to reunite with the father.

I HATED Evita.....Loved Hair.

A friend and I cut out 8th grade classes to take a train into the city to see it. Ronny Dyson, a cast member AND played the grapes in a Fruit of the Loom underwear commercial, took us back to the right subway station to catch the train home...it was glorious!

[quote] Yes, Jerry: he has wrote "Comedy Tonight", "Broadway Baby", "I'm Still Here", and "Send in the Clowns".

Wow, four! Quite a career.

Musicals with hefty books like 1776, My Fair Lady, etc need ACTORS who can sing. 1776 can be a slog but with proper get actors doing their jobs it can be very good.

Its paradoxical but there are more than a few musicals you just can't sing your way out of...

Ronnie Dyson also had a hit song -- "If You Let Me Make Love to You, Then Why Can't I Touch You?" in the early 70s.

For those still confused, Phantom is brilliant because of how it envelops you in a gothic mysterious world and gives you memorable tunes and memorable visuals. Really, the direction and set/costume design are exquisite. Sure the characters aren't that compelling, save the titular one, but the piece moves along at a good enough pace. That being said I can understand why some people would see it and hate it. I don't think every cast brings the same magic to the show, and it does take really good performers to make some of the characterizations work. Wasn't Sarah Brightman compared to a deer in headlights because of her wide-eyed acting? And yet that's exactly what Christine is for most of the show. Wide-eyed. Raoul is dull. Meg hardly registers as a person. Carlotta and Phantom are the most dynamic players. But clearly in terms of spectacle, it is a must-see. I can completely understand why it's still on Broadway and I hope it stays there for a long time.

I really did not understand Spring Awakening's appeal. Do I want to see a bunch of contemporary kids staring me down in the face with microphones in their hands like there are auditioning for some kind of O Town band all dressed in period costumes? No, I do not. I had no reference point for the show going into it and it did a piss-poor job of explaining what the hell was happening. It's basically all about the importance of teaching sex ed in high school right? Because if you don't, kids have sex and die? Something like that. Set in...Germany...? Scandinavia...? In the....1500s...? 1600s...? I give up.

Can anyone explain to me how there are fans of Chess? I'll admit that some of the songs are little interesting or catchy, but that's being pretty generous. The show itself is a complete and utter mess. Yet it seems to be a favorite amongst the theater folk. Hun.

I have tried to like Les Mis but I just find it dreary as all hell. I guess that's the point. I just don't understand how people would want to watch multiple productions of it. It's so one-note to me. The Original London cast recording is great though.

To whoever walked out of the original Broadway production of Dreamgirls...what the hell is the matter with you? You saw Jennifer Holliday sing that song and you didn't want to come back for Act 2?

I'm surprised Passion even came up in this discussion. That show is really depressing and I'm pretty sure only appeals to 2% of the musical loving population.

I was astonished that Sunset Boulevard did as well as it did with Glenn Close back in the title role. She really can barely sing, and that's going by my memories from the 90s. And she acted like a complete idiot as Norma losing her mind. If you take away the lavish sets all it leaves you with is a hammy cuckoo Norma and a bunch of ridiculously insipid filler scenes with Joe and The Supporting Cast. Who cares? It takes a really great actress to make Norma work, and it takes a hell of a lot of eye candy to make the show tolerable. You need that giant house set and as many other tricks up your sleeve as possible to distract from the score and lyrics.

Speaking of which... Jekyll and Hyde! Holy crap is that a dumpster fire! I actually feel kind of badly for Linda Eder because she has an amazing voice and this is the one thing she's best known for. Someone Like You sounds like a Disney song and what the hell it has anything to do with a prostitute in the middle of the Jekyll and Hyde story is beyond me. Murder Murder!! Wow. Subtle.

I love the Sound of Music movie, but I don't think I could sit through a stage version.

[quote]Can anyone explain to me how there are fans of Chess? I'll admit that some of the songs are little interesting or catchy, but that's being pretty generous. The show itself is a complete and utter mess. Yet it seems to be a favorite amongst the theater folk. Hun.

I’m not sure I’ve ever met anyone who actually loves Chess, but I find it heartbreaking for what it could have been. There’s so much promise in the premise, and some amazing songs in the score, (and a few stinkers) but I agree, the book is a soppy mess no matter how they reshuffle it.

But “I Know Him So Well” and “Nobody’s Side” are great songs, I like “Where I Want to Be” and “Endgame” a lot, and the choral work in “A Model of Decorum and Tranquility” is fun

But that story demands a tragic ending, and they never really seemed to have the nerve or talent to get there.

I too don't understand the hate for Phantom. It's gorgeous to look at and filled with so much lovely music by Puccini.

THE MOST HAPPY FELLA. Frank Loesser swaps the zest of GUYS AND DOLLS for a second-rate score and tired story. Tony is the most obnoxious Italian stereotype Who-a talka a-likea this and it's supposed to be funny and charming. The Italian version of Stepin Fetchit. The Original Broadway Cast Album features way too many trilly "romantic" songs for Jo Sullivan and not nearly enough snappy songs for Susan Johnson.

I thought I read once that ALW had written "Memory" for what was going to be Sunset Boulevard, which makes total sense, but didn't think it would ever get off the ground, so he used the song for Cats. So Cats got the memorable song while Sunset Boulevard had none.

Les Mis has many memorable songs. Can't imagine anyone not enjoying the music even if the setting is somewhat of a drudge.

Yes The Sound of Music is a real slog on stage. But I had an older friend who was not especially into musicals and saw Martin in it and he spoke with wonder about how incandescent she was. She went a long way towards launching it and it is a glorious unforgettable score. So many of the songs are still classics in 2018 which many people know even if they don't like musicals. Americans are now born with it in their DNA. I don't think you can say that about any other piece of music in any culture in all of history.

r3 = Broadway snob

R154, I love THE MOST HAPPY FELLA. I've spent many an hour on planes listening to the CD of the entire show; I'm so old I even had the 3-LP set before that.

I don't think the libretto is tired at all. In fact, a woman who gets pregnant from a guy she fucked on the night she married another man must've been scandalous in the Eisenhower '50s, not to mention in the original 1924 play. And not only doesn't the adulteress die, she gets to live happily ever after.

I was just in Italy. They really do talk like that when they speak English. Even the automated voice on the Milan Metro says 'Next-a-stop, Duomo'

And I love the score. 'Wanting to Be Wanted' is simply lovely; the ultimate 'I want' song. But I've listened to it so many times, that whenever I get the chance to see a live production and Cleo opens her mouth to sing 'Ooh My Feet' and Susan Johnson's voice doesn't come out, I'm invariably disappointed.

Sobering thought (for me, anyway). Robert Weede was only 53 when he originated the role of 'the old man' Tony. I'm now 61. Sigh

^ Oops. The song I referred to is actually entitled "Somebody, Somewhere", not 'Wanting to be Wanted'. It's been so many years since I sat on the floor of my parents' living room, listening to the hi-fi and reading the liner notes, I forgot the name of the song.

r80 = music snob

I saw Perfectly Frank and hearing Sullivan singing songs from Happy Fella is one of my happiest theatrical memories.

Rich in his typical NYTimes obtuseness gave it a withering pan. It looked cheap but the performances of the great songs were wonderful.

Gravitte also sang Junkman in it. How stupid could that man be?

Jo Sullivan Loesser is still with us, at age 91

Movies or Broadway shows?

And she still has a death grip on WHERE'S CHARLEY?

Yes, Ray Bolger was too old for the film, but hell, he performed wonderfully anyway. Plus Allyn Ann McLerie just died recently; not release it in her honor, as she was in a lot of Broadway shows including "Miss Liberty", as well as "Calamity Jane" among other films. She and Bolger deserve to have something major that they filmed rediscovered by new audiences, even if he was much too old to be playing a university student.

that is, "Why not release it"

Hamilton -- The Broadway equivalent of a teacher sitting backwards in his chair to "relate" to his students.

Mean Girls -- Not beloved, per se, but I was very angry I wasted my money and time. Recycled book and terrible songs. There's a good musical to be made out of Mean Girls. Unfortunately we didn't get it because Tina Fey wanted to make her hack musician husband feel like a man.

I don't really hate Sunset Boulevard, because a lot of Norma's material is pretty good, but whenever it changes to a different location than the house, I could care less. I think of it a lot like Carrie: The Musical in that way. I think the Carrie/Margaret material is stunning, but it feels like a totally different show than the rest of the stuff with the school and the kids. Those scenes are so badly written, too, which is odd since it was written by the same guy who wrote the screenplay for the original film. C'mon, dude! If ain't broke...

Sunset dies when it leaves the house and Norma.

The film would to if it didn't have the very appealing Olson. She and Holden are irreplaceable.

I haven't seen a musical since WICKED (and I didn't like it, or at best was ambivalent; it's so unmemorable that I can't recall why I felt that way), yet I have seen a lot of the ones on this list and agree with the inclusion of all of them except GYPSY (with Tyne Daly; loved it) and CABARET (twice, once with Joely Fisher, second time w/ Gina Gershon; liked Joely Fisher better but liked that production a lot). So maybe I don't actually like musicals much.

OKLAHOMA: Fell asleep—and it was a matinee. Andrea Martin was in it.

FIDDLER ON THE ROOF: It sounds like I've had a stroke, but for some of these, they were just so boring that I don't recall anything about them. Fiddler is one like that.

RENT: Had wanted to see it when it first came out; down the road a few years a cousin was in town at Xmas and wanted to see a show; it was one of the only things left on the board at TKTS when I got there. Know people are VERY devoted to this show, but ugh. Hyper-earnest, self-important and annoying. The Saturday night we were there, at least a quarter of the audience didn't come back after intermission. A few years later when the movie came out, a friend wanted to see it at the Ziegfeld and insisted we get there early, thinking it would be sold out; it probably wasn't a quarter full. As soon as it started, with that "Seasons of Love song" (which I don't like), I mentally groaned, Oh shit, I remember this.

MAMA MIA: Was it considered beloved? I saw it with someone who was writing a story about the glut of jukebox musicals at the time, and when it was over and all the tourists were losing their minds and dancing in the aisles, we looked at each other like, WTF?

LION KING: Went because my 12-year-old nephew was in town with my mom; did nothing for me.

THE FULL MONTY: Another one that's certainly not in the "beloved" canon, and that I have no memory of. I think Patrick Wilson was in it. He was also in the Oklahoma! production I saw. I like Patrick Wilson, just not the musicals he's been in.

'too'

Saw 'Urinetown' this week. They went with a kinda post apocalyptic interpretation I now cannot stand it.

Grey Gardens - terrible structure, with most of the character arc happening during intermission, a so-so score (I don’t even really like “AWiaST” very much), and it comes across as exploitive of their obvious mental illness. Painful to watch.

“Funny Girl” starts out great, but the second act is endless and mind-numbing.

I think I'm the only person who likes the second half of the film of Funny Girl. It's when Wyler's gift for melodrama comes to the fore.

The dialogue is good and the direction and performances by everyone are wonderful. The scene with Fanny and her mother. The scene where Nick is offered the job. The two goodbye scenes-the first where she wants to give it a chance when he comes out of prison and the second when she realizes it really is over.

Everything but that damn ballet parody.

Unfortunately what I remember most from Grey Gardens was Christine Ebersole’s god-awful and endless caterwauling about a hot summer in a winter town or some such convoluted nonsense.