Who was the worst serial killer?

Of those I knpw about: Ramirez. The fact that his MO was to break into people's homes while they slept... Terrifying.

I know Bundy did some of that but not every damn time.

As scary as Ramirez was, he was only copying what the EAR/ONS (Original Night Stalker) had started... and EAR/ONS has never been caught. He is probably still alive somewhere...

write in: Albert Fish

I have a pretty strong stomach and constitution but he gives even me the willies.

Jack the Ripper.

He COULD have been an American nobody knows.

And the way he mutilated women's bodies.....shiver

Second runner up, HH Holmes. I am actually disappointed in your selection.

Of the group listed, it's a tie between Gacy, who was a sick sadist, and Lucas, whose killings were totally random. But my own list of the worst would be Randy Kraft, Gary Bowles and Dean Corll, all of whom targeted gay men. As a kid, the first serial killer I ever heard of was Corll, who lured young men and boys into his candy store, before torturing and killing them. Scared the shit out of me when I read about him.

What about Arlene Francis? We all KNOW she murdered Dorothy Kilgallen...

Chicotillo and the Sawney Beanes.

Dick Ramirez wins because of the randomness of it all.

He broke all the serial killer rules and seemed capable of targeting anyone in their own home.

That cauliflower ear fella didn't even come close...

The Kennedy Special

Wasn't there a Freeway Killer in 60s/70s LA?

I had a high school teacher who said she may have been a target. Her car had broken down on the side of a remote section of freeway one night. While her boyfriend went to find help and take a leak, a man rolled up by her car as she waited, and asked if "she needed help." She said she got a weird vibe from him and told him that her boyfriend was handling it, but that he was persistent. Fortunately, her boyfriend reappeared and then the man sped off. Freaky times.

Re r8 : That'd be Chikatilo. A real sicko if ever there was one.

Gacy. So many victims. And the creepy fuck worked children's parties dressed as a clown.

Dahmer is my 2nd choice because he actually ate his victims and froze parts for a later snack. The twisted fuck would like dark meat too huh?

Bundy is 3rd - for the sheer number of victims. Especially insidious because he was good looking and seemed unassuming. Chills.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Herb Baumeister is underrated. Murdered 20+ gay men who he lured to his Indiana estate, all while married with children.

Doesn't he just look like your typical Log Cabin Republicanette, or some closeted GOP congressman?

Co-sign, R3. *shudder*

Interestingly, Son of Sam Berkowitz is the only killer on the list who is still alive.

Of course, the Zodiac may or may not still be alive.... who knows? He would have to be very elderly at this point.

If this were the '60s, I'm sure Albert DeSalvo and a write-in Richard Speck would be getting a lot more mention..

Considering everyone else on the list began their terror campaign after the 60s, that's hardly a bold statement

Lived through Ramirez and, Mary as it sounds, that Night Stalker shit was indeed scary -- because the only "clue" was that he broke into homes near freeway on-ramps. Well, in L.A., that's all of us. So nobody felt safe, especially in the Valley.

The way he was caught was interesting. Downtown, I think, and someone recognized him from his police suspect drawing and began to chase with other Mexican-Americans. They get all the credit for that one.

Ramirez freaks me out the most. Dahmer was horrible but if I'm already dead I don't really care if someone eats me.

Belle Gunness deserves a mention, I think.

Ramirez was caught in ELA trying to steal a car from a young wife who had just climbed inside to go to the store. In ELA, one does not mess with wives or cars so the husband and his friends dogpiled on him, and the cops had to save Ramirez once people realized who he was. Even after he was arrested ELA residents massed at the Hollenbeck station...

Holmes is the one who keeps me up at night.

Corll seems the worst.

[quote] All of the victims found had been sodomized and most victims found bore evidence of sexual torture: pubic hairs had been plucked out, genitals had been chewed, objects had been inserted into their rectums, and [bold]glass rods had been shoved into their urethrae and smashed[/bold]. Cloth rags had also been inserted into the victims' mouths and adhesive tape wound around their faces to muffle their screams. The mouth of the third victim unearthed on August 8 was so agape that all upper and lower teeth were visible, leading investigators to theorize the youth had died with a scream on his lips

the one you never saw coming

Gacy and Dahmer are neck and neck....

R23, I read about the house he created. Holy Mothers of Mercy what a sick fuck he was.

According to the Department of Defense, there are 4,424 total deaths (including both killed in action and non-hostile) and 31,952 wounded in action (WIA) as a result of Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Based on that, I insist that George W. Bush be added to the list for consideration.

Corll had a nice ass, but he couldn't live forever.

Was he the only serial killer to die presenting hole?

I will not link to the photo of him naked and shot to death in his house (and displaying those characteristics), but you can find it if you want to see it, you sick fuck.

I find it difficult to believe that Gacy could lure so many teen boys and young guys to his home by himself? He was a scary-looking, fat, middle aged dude. I think there is something to the rumor that he had two 2 cute teenage boy accomplices who did the luring.

how can one possibly be worse than another?

He lured them with lucrative, no experience needed construction jobs, R30

Y'all left out Ed Gein who skinned women and made stuff with their body parts.

King Vitamin. It had to be pulled from the shelf, and many children Perished.

Dahmer is probably the scariest because a lot of you bitches would have gone home with him.

Good thing for you, most of you wouldn't have been his "type."

AIKC, you would have been in danger, girl.

Golden State Killer/Original Night Stalker

Zodiac

Ripper Crew

Also BTK

I knew the Baumeisters fairly well. He appeared to be a meek and mild person.

More details, please, R38!

Was it obvious he was a closeted gay?

Ramirez never scared me. The Zodiac killer did.

Tony the Tiger. Maybe not the worst, but he was......

Randy Kraft who is living his third or fourth decade on California's death row shares the devil's prize with Corll and Gacy. All of them tortured their victims before killing them. Kraft may have been the most prolific. He was so demented that he would cut the eyelids off his victims so that they were forced to see their torture assuming the blood from the eye wounds didn't prevent it. He also castrated a good number of the men he drugged in order to restrain them prior to torture/death. Corll once tied up twin boys and offered to free the one who would beat the other to death while both were tied to the torture board. Gacy was no better,

The worst in my opinion is Kraft because he is still alive thanks to the Ninth Circuit's and Governor Brown's discomfort with the death penalty. The appellate jurists and governor should have to meet with the surviving family members. By the way, if you want to scare yourself half to death, look up the article on Corll in the Texas monthly magazine from 2013 marking the 40th anniversary of Corll's death.. Imagine yourself as a 15 year old boy being pressured by Corl's angels of deathto visit the "Candy Man" abode for a quick hit. There for the grace of God...

The gay community should take on the cause of getting Kraft sent to hell without further appeal

That was quite a mouthful, li'l miss voice of a generation

Don't forget the never-caught Doodler killer of SF who would sketch or "doodle" his victims on paper before stabbing them to death. He killed around 14 men.

Peter Kurten, the Vampire of Dusseldorf

Fritz Haarmann made Jeffry Dahmer look like a Boy Scout: "the Butcher of Hanover"!

R45 = sigourney weaver

I voted Son of Sam, if for nothing else, because he started the God-awful trend of Italian-American chicks dying their hair blonde. It was initially rumored that Son of Sam was targeting Italian-y brunettes.

No, honey, just no. We can see those black roots.

Agree on Albert Fish, even though they're all crazy and sick.

I'm generally very interested in serial killers and what makes them tick, and reading about Fish definitely gave me many sleepless night.

Related question to OP's: Who was the BEST serial killer?

Best serial killer: Gary Ray Bowles. He was hot-looking, and would put out for his victims for about a week before he killed them.

Gacy's last victim was a high school kid working part time in a local drug store. It was his Mom's birthday and she had come to pick him up at the store. She went inside and he told her he would be right back as he wanted to talk to this guy in the parking lot about a possible job.

He never came back.

Gacy was pretty well known and the drug store employees knew that he was a contractor who had been in the store around the time the boy went missing. Cops went to Gacy's house but he said he had talked to the kid in the parking lot but did not know where he had gone after than.

I think I remember that when they finally got a search warrant for Gacy's house, among other things, they found a drug store photo receipt that the victim had apparently stuffed in his pocket when he put on his jacket.

The block that Gacy lived on was one block down from where a cousin of mine lived. Nice, middle class houses, well tended. After the cops tore the house apart searching for bodies, the house was torn down. They renumbered the lot so that the new house built there does not have the same number as Gacy's house.

This poor woman, Sherry Marino, is still looking for her answers about her son, who may or (as it turns out) may not have been a Gacy victim. She had his body exhumed because she had a "feeling" the remains were never her son's.

The Gacy loon has arrived, I see

The Green River killer was the most prolific in this country. He only killed whores and runaways so it to a long, long time for anyone to give a shit.

Dick Cheney.

Tie between Dick Cheney and Henry Kissinger.

no love for lil ol me?

Dennis Rader - BTK

The Green River killer, Gary Ridgway, confessed to almost 100 murders.

Juan Corona, at least 25 transients and migrant farm workers.

Charles Picton of Vancouver, B.C., at least 25 victims, possibly a hundred. Fed the bodies of his drug addicted , sex worker victims to his pigs.

Serial killers, as a rule, all creep me out equally, what with their compulsion to inflict horror on others and all. But I'd write-in Angel Resindez, the Railway Killer. In the late 90's rode the rails across the country and hopped off and killed at random and disappeared, again on a train. Unlike the killers who were confined to a geographic area, he literally had the entire nation under siege because he could turn up anywhere the railroads went.

R58, Charlie Manson never killed one person.

False

Are there fewer of them out there? With technology widely recording street activities, there is more of a risk being caught after the first few killings. Arguably, the interstate highway system was their boom and surveillance cameras are their bust. You don't hear of many such cases as in the 70's and 80's. If Gacy or Bundy were active today, they probably would have been caught on cameras as they approached at least some of the victims. Sometimes a little loss of privacy is a good thing. Also, law enforcement uses data analysis more effectively than before and the "run away" excuse is no longer a reason to sweep a bunch of missing kid cases under the rug as happened in the Corll case. So, at least in this regard, we are better off as a society.

I agree - Randy Kraft. He tortured and killed boys and men in at least three states - keeping a coded "scorecard" of his victims. The true total will probably never be determined. Sentenced to die, he's been languishing on Death Row in California for close to four decades, busy filing appeals and frivolous lawsuits. He even sued the author of a book about his crimes, claiming that its negative portrayal of him would "hurt his future employment prospects." (A judge threw out his lawsuit.). Look li'l Randy up on Wikipedia. He should have been sent to hell long ago, but California continues to keep him alive, with us citizens continuing to pay for his upkeep and well-being.

They ALL have more victims than are on file (except Lucas)

They all make me sad and I HATE movies made about them. Always pissed me off, even as a boy, that these animals were romanticized and made famous.

Having said that, I finally watched "Zodiac" as a Fincher fan -- and I must say he was one boring serial killer with no personality traits period. It wasn't my favorite Fincher, needless to say.

Most of them were able to carry on for a while because cops are fucking stupid. Especially regarding The Green River Killer. He snatched a girl up in his truck. Her boyfriend saw. He drove around for hours and hours until he found the truck in Ridgeway's driveway. The cops went to talk to him. They didn't even go inside. They said he looked like a nice guy and had no reason to doubt him. Meanwhile the task force was spending all it's time, effort, and dollars tracking two suspects they believed were the killers. Even though they both had alibi after alibi and couldn't possibly be the killer.

Ted Bundy is the champ. Why? He didn't stay in one area but travelled around the country. Authorities speculate that he may have killed over 100 women, although was convicted for a little over 30. He was a sick fuck. During his last murder spree in Florida he broke into a girls school at night. He went in one girl's room while she was sleeping and kept hitting her on the head with a metal rod while masturbating with his other hand. In several cases in rural areas he would bring the female corpse back to a cabin for a few days, wash her hair everyday and apply fresh makeup to her. And this is just the tip of the iceberg. He was a twisted soul.

Don't forget the Milwaukee PD who sent Khan supinusenphone home with dahmer after he was found wandering the neighborhood naked and disoriented

Whoever killed Jose DeWitt's career!

Sauvage!

^Joyce is Jose in Mexican

R69:

Why do you think any of what you described outshines the twisted soul of dahmer who poured acid into drilled skulls, ate body parts, and kept preserved genitals and skulls in his fridge?

All done in his own living space!

Dahmer's father wrote an excruciatingly honest book about his son and what fault he may have played. What he could have done and didn't do. Signs he might have missed or ignored. What it was like to go through the trial.. A lot of other things too. It was brutally sad and written without the slightest intention for sympathy. It was almost impossible to read.

R33 the maitre'd

Jaysus, I'd never even heard of this Dean Corll guy before and I'm in my 40s. I thought I was au fait with all the serial killers, but scrolling thru his Wikipedia entry has legit made me sick. And Ive read Bundys and Dahmers gruesome profiles. The very dictionary definition of SICK FUCK has to be Corll.

I lived thru the Night Stalker years, my family was in San Jose and i was about 10 years old when he hit our area, truly terrifying because he killed random people in their homes as they sleep. Other killers focus on a type of victim (age, gender, appearance, occupation, location), but Night Stalker killed any and all who were in his path.

at Canal Bar?

Israel Keyes. Determined and indiscriminating.

The combination of the group of serial killers known as the Conservatives/GOP/white Christians/most 1% who have killed millions starting in the USA only with the Native Americans and will continue to kill millions now mostly the working/middle class/poor. The rest of the serial killers on the list got nothin' on them. The only one who comes close is Hitler and even he didn't kill as many over the past 2000 years. If you count all the murder done world wide over time it probably ranks in the billions.

2/10

R76, read the book "The Man With The Candy", about the Dean Corll murders. It is both fascinating and sickening. The worst part was how Corll got two of his almost-victims (Elmer Wayne Henley and David Brooks) to bring their friends over to his house. He paid them money for each potential victim. The only reason the killings ever stopped was because Henley committed the unpardonable sin of bringing a girl over to Corll's house. Corll was enraged, and decided to kill Henley, but Henley shot Corll first. Henley and Brooks are still in prison today,

bump

WTH?! Ted Bundy might have murdered over 100 women and girls, from the NW to the SE, and he isn't ranked #1?!

well, this is a gay message board. Dahmer and Gacy's crimes resonate a little more personally here

Son of Spam

HH Holmes was America's first serial killer and was unique in that he invested an enormous amount of time and money in his hobby of serial killing. The guy built a hotel with rooms that were piped with gas outlets that would allow him to gas people to death and he had a cremation oven built in the basement for body disposal.

[quote]Ramirez was caught in ELA

That is what was so funny about how he got caught. Basically, a serial killer terrorizes a whole city by crawling through windows in the middle of the night during the hottest part of the summer. Then one day he goes into the "wrong neighborhood" gets his ass kicked, not even realizing he was the Night Stalker. Only in LA.

Anne Hathaway, who according to Datalounge is history's greatest monster.

I say Dahmer. The man was a true psychopath. Who else you know, could be doing what your doing. Have the cops show up to your place, with the victim, convince them he's just had 2 many drinks, and continue to murder so more. And look at his face. He truly had no empathy.

R87, didn't the mob know who he was? That's why they went after him.

I still think Ramirez is the scariest. Jesus Christ. Look at pictures of him. He worshipped the devil. He tortured and raped and mutilated. And he did it in the dead of night, usually surprising people in bed while they slept. That is fucking TERRIFYING. Sure, so and so might've killed more people, and the other guy ate them, but for a sheer terrifying and painful dying experience, I can't think of anyone worse than the mid-80s Night Stalker.

Even the made-for-NBC TV movie they did about him scared the hell out of me. I was in elementary or junior high school when it first aired.

R40, why on earth weren't you afraid?

Robert Hansen, who kidnapped women and then hunted them to their deaths in the Alaskan wilderness, was to my mind about the worst. That's a horrible way to be killed.

Andrew Cunanan was actually more of a spree killer than a serial killer, but he was also pure evil. He tortured two of his victims to death over several days.

I did cross paths with Ted Bundy in a strip mall parking lot..I was about ten but looked older as I was so tall. He tried to get me in his vow beetle to show him where Lerner shop was. He offered five dollars and went up in five dollar increments up to 25 till I ran in the grocery store and told my dad but we came out and he was gone. I later learned I resembled all the girls he went after which reminded him of an ex who pissed him off. Luckily he spoke to me from the drivers seat to me next to the front passengers seat as he pulled a fourteen year old into the car but she fought and got away. When I was younger my dads car broke down on the interstate near Seattle and he told my brothers and I not to open the car for anyone--someone said that later saved my from ted killing me

Kraft was the Freeway Killer in LA, but he also had a partner. David D. Hill, also a serial killer! They were living together in Culver City.

[quote] Then one day he goes into the "wrong neighborhood" gets his ass kicked, not even realizing he was the Night Stalker.

But the neighbor hood people DID recognize him. True, he initially caught their attention by his actions that day - was it attempted car hijacking? - but once the people in the area got a look at him they went after him because they recognized him.

Damn, R93! That's terrifying.

It was smart of OP not to name Ed Gein in the poll as he was implicated in only two murders. The fetishes he created and displayed around his home were made from the bodies of dead women which he had dug up from cemeteries, including the infamous body suit which he supposedly fashioned so he could recreate his mother's image.

From the Wikipedia entry about the Black Doodler:

[quote]The fact that he had a "make-up tube" on his person when he died suggested to police he may have been a closeted, gay man.

Right, because a lot of gay men wear makeup. Or maybe he was just a closet cross dresser. This is why people confuse trans people to be part of the gay community. (well, that, and the whole LGBT inclusivity/appropriation debacle.)

From "Manhunt: Search for the Night Stalker", here is a link to part of the TV movie.

The scenes leading right up to his capture start around the 1 hour:18 minute mark and go for around 6 minutes.

Survivor stories to make your blood run cold.

Good God, I'd never even heard of Croll til I read the Wiki entry. He's got to be right up there with the worst of the worst. All those young men disappear in the same area, he tortures, rapes, and shoots guns in a series of APARTMENTS. How could no one hear or report anything. And those cops. This must be in the era before people sued police departments because every one of those families has a legitimate case. And they kept up that disgraceful behavior by not trying to recover other remains and dropping any involvement in tracing murders in other places Croll might have been involved with. Useless. Those two accomplice torture -murderers are in prison in TX. Aileen Wournos was executed. I don't get it.

Robert Berdella, the Butcher of Kansas City. He was big on poisoning and torturing his tricks before burying them on his property.

My mom was a teen in late 80s KC and she would frequent his shop known as Bob's Bizarre Bazaar. She asked him where he'd gotten a human skull casually laying on the shelf and he told her that she was asking too personal a question.

Very strange doc. on Berdella.

What's the story about Cunanan and the rich old guy he tortured and killed in Chicago? How would this old guy have known a gay hustler? He was wealthy and married with kids. Seems like the family made the story go away.

R104 has lost his thinking cap.

Yes, R105, I'm assuming he was a closet case, but I would have expected there to have been a leak of some kind. There was an implication that Cunanan was friends with the old guy's son. The family had the media on complete lock down. Wondering if anyone on DL knows anything about him.

Jeffrey Dahmer as I'd have been attracted to him and couldn't resist him coming on to me.

Hitler wins this thread.

Stalin isn't far behind R108

Don't forget me

Actually, Stalin beats Hitler by a large margin.

Did Dahmer kill anyone who wasn't a person of color?

Must I always be made to regret that I had only one daughter?

It's too cruel.

By worst do you mean the best or the most incompetent?

Omg.

Dennis Nilsen was born November 23, 1945 in Fraserburgh, Scotland. Though Nilsen recognized his homosexual desires, he was never comfortable with them and began acting on them through murder and dismemberment. Nilsen's first victim was in 1978, he went on to kill, upon his confession, twelve young men and dissect their bodies. Probably more...

There's no way you can say one serial killer was "the worst", although the ones who torture their victims before killing them are way up there on the evil scale.

EAR/ONS. He's possibly still out there. He was young when he committed his crimes in the late '70s. Some say as young as 20 in the early 80s. So unless he's in prison or died, he's probably leading a normal, quiet life somewhere..

Imagine waking up to this face in your bedroom..

Berdella also took photos of his victims mid-torture and just prior to their death. The pics are out there, but be warned theyre fucking horrifying.

Pedro Lopez murdered hundreds of little girls in Ecuador in the 60s and 70s- hundreds- and dumped their bodies in mass graves. He was placed in a psych hospital, released on $50 bail in 1998, and hasn't been seen since.

The Ripper Crew out of Chicago- I hope they rot in hell.

Dahmer's first victim. He had good taste. (see what I did there?)

Richard Chase

R65 you should read this account about Kraft. It's riveting.

Kemper. Necrophiliac, cannibal- and avid sportsman. Well, avid in regard to the fact that he used his mother's head (decapitated) as a dart board. Killed many other women....his grandparents......a real psychotic mess. Stood about six foot nine, had a very high IQ. Scary shit.

I had to back off from true crime. I just love(d) reading about all the cases. On the internet. Buying books. I found it so interesting. Alas I decided I should back off from it. I figured too much of this couldn't be good for your mind.

One of the best books I've read about a serial killer focused on the unit investigating him and how he got caught. It's called Trace Evidence. Couldn't put it down. Another "one of the best" I read was about the woman who was probably the most prolific serial killer after the Green River killer. You just never heard much about her. It's called Perfect Poison: A Female Serial Killer's Deadly Medicine. It's about Kristen Gilbert. A serial killer nurse who worked at a VA hospital. That book I bought for my kindle. The night I bought it I read until about 3AM then at work I closed my office door and brought the book up on my desktop and just read all day.

We are very over-represented in the world of serial killers.

Why is that? (Not trolling, serious question)

I mean us Americans

R94 you're thinking of Kearney not Kraft -- I think there were three gay "freeway killers" operating in roughly the same time frame in So. California. . The third is William Bonin.

I will take it a step further and wonder why we in Southern California have had so many "wonderful" serial killers gracing us with their lovely presence...

Warm weather and a lot of people open spaces etc

Alexander the Great

r119, there's never been anything corroborating that he looked like that with the piercing eyes and the evil expression, We just know he wore a black ski mask. That image is ridiculously sensationalized.

Am I crazy, or was Rosalynn Carter a friend of serial killer John Wayne Gacy? I know I've seen a photo of the two of them together.

I think know I what photo you're referring to r133, but Gacy was a big Democratic Party fundraiser. It was just from a Dem meet-n-greet.

Charles "Tex" Watson

He looks menacing!

R135 He is truly a monster for stabbing such a precious person (Sharon) to death

bump

Did anyone read the article at r123 re randy kraft ?

Ramirez is the creepiest one, he makes my skin crawl.

The ones with the most kills were the freeway killers in southern calif. Killed young male Hitchhikers.Which creeps me out cause i was hitchhiking the freeways at just that time. why didnt anyone warn me.? there were three of them, their kills number in the 50 to over 100s

Robert Pickton a.k.a. The Pig Farmer Killer

The BTK and EAR/ONS freak me out the most because of the level of planning and methodical nature of their crimes. They way they'd stalk their victims before killing them is frightening to me. The idea that someone could be watching you for months while you have no clue is pretty frightening.

Andrei Romanovich Chikatilo, The Rostov Ripper - a Russian cannibalistic, pedophilic serial killer responsible for over four dozen murders

Tasteful friends! Behold, John Wayne Gacy's tiki bar!

EAR/ONS is/was(?) terrifying.

Before he started murdering, he was simply known as the East Area Rapist in the Sacramento area. Anyhow, the city had some type of town hall meeting to discuss the predator, and a man in the audience loudly proclaimed that he would never let the East Area Rapist attack his wife.

Not too long afterwards, the EAR/ONS attacked that very same man and his wife....

So was EAR/ONS in attendance at that town hall meeting? Likely.

Thanks, r123. I had never seen that article. Fascinating - and chilling - read!

I hear that cauliflower ear fella was pretty creepy

No, R133, it was a photo op and he was one of a million people posing with Carter. They were hardly friends.

I met a LEO who said they believe there are long-distance truckers who are serial murderers of many people and they are still out there killing. He said it's hard to catch them because they're mobile and they tend to prey on people who aren't reported missing.

Hitler and Stalin weren't serial killers. They were dictators whose actions caused the deaths of an untold number of people, but they sure as hell weren't serial killers.

i heard that the smell of R148's pussy killed more men than even Dahmer.. R148's pussy wins this thread

Never step between a cauliflower ear fangurl and her obsession!

never sniff between R153's asshole and twat. She hasn't douched in years.

How original

Maybe not the worst but worth a mention. The documentary was very interesting.

Roy Albert DeMeo (September 7, 1942[1] – January 10, 1983) was a New York mobster and member of the Gambino crime family. He headed the DeMeo crew, a gang suspected of murdering over 100 people between 1973 and 1983; with the majority of their victims' bodies dismembered and disposed of so thoroughly that they were never found. Roy DeMeo himself is believed to have killed some 70 people.

A paid hitman is not a serial killer

Holmes

The worst was Ottis Toole . thought to have killed with is boyfriend over 100 people. he is thought to have killed john walsch son. The gay killers William Bonin, freeway killer, Patrick Keaney, freeway trash bag killer, loved to pick up and rape and kill marines and then Randy Kraft also freeway killer of young men

R157 I thought the same thing until the detective in the DeMeo documentary pointed out that there really is no difference between them and a serial killers.

The cause might be different, but the effect is the same.

R160:

It's all about motivation

The end result may be the same, but the motivation is quite different.

That makes a difference to those who study such things for a benefit to society.

It would be like scientists saying cancer and diabetes are the same thing because they both have a high body count.

That's overly simplistic to the point of being useless

R162 True. I watched the documentary a few weeks ago and know there are many NY'ers who post here that might find it interesting. I'm fascinated by the Mob.

R150 That's very scary to think about. Most people look at truckers as honest, hard working guys, but who knows how many of them are killers.

Gary dressed as a Clown. Part of why people hate Clowns

The Top 18 Signs You've Hired the Wrong Clown for Your Child's Party

18 By the end of the party, he's got every damn kid doing the "pull my finger" trick. 17 Clown car must be started with breathalizer device. 16 Keeps screaming, "My name's not BO-zo, it's bo-ZO!" 15 References to Kierkegaard and Nietzsche are lost on most 5-year olds. 14 Props for his "disappearing" trick: a moving van and your wide-screen TV. 13 Scares the holy hell outta the kids during the "Severed Limb" trick. 12 Tells the kids he killed Barney in a blood match in Newark. 11 Didn't bring any balloons, but manages to twist your dachshund into other animal shapes. 10 Prefaces each trick with, "here's a little number I learned in the joint." 9 Not exactly the Peewee Herman impression you were expecting. 8 Wears a T-Shirt that says, "Drug-free since March!" 7 More interested in squirting seltzer into his Scotch than into his pants. 6 Those huge ears look too darn life-like, and the entire act consists of showing charts and complaining about the deficit. 5 A sad clown is one thing -- a clown who spends the entire party with a gun to his temple is another thing entirely. 4 Only balloon animals he can make are a snake and a "snake on acid." 3 Business cards include the phrase "From the Mind of Stephen King..." 2 Price list includes "lap dance" and "around the world." and the Number 1 Sign You've Hired the Wrong Clown for Your Child's Party... 1 All the balloon animals are ribbed and lubricated.

Gacy^

No hillside stranglers?

Yes, Ottis Toole with Henry Lee Lucas. Toole is horrifying to look at, like a Deliverance person. Reeks of low IQ, no teeth, evil follower....

Bonin was pretty slick. As bad as Corll no?

I find it racist that Dahmer is getting more mentioning here. Is it because the victims were black.

Dahmer was an equal opportunity snacker.

His list of victims reads like a UN conference

So why did you mention him upthread, R169?

The FBI uses a tape made by the "toolbox Killers" to desensitize agents. The transcript of them torturing a 15 year old girl is online. I thought that just reading the words wouldn't be that bad. I was so wrong. I don't know how the FBI could hear the actual tape and be sane.

I think two of the worst we're Leonard lake and Charles ng.

Lots of my friends in the police force have heard The Moors Murders tapes of them killing 10 year old Lesley Ann Downey. They killed at least another 4 children/young people as well.

Partial transcript at the link below

no. i just object. the entire creep factor of a serial killer is their method and john gacy wins hands down. the clown thing. and then you are joking around with him. he does that hand cuffs behind the back, trick and says ok you try it now, and he switches them so you are handcuffed and then you are tortured and end up under his floor boards, that is total creep facttor to the max.............AND WE HAVE A WINNER....... no one else comes close

BTK would have been the worst, followed by Dahmer.

BTK is first, because he had no limits or boundaries. He'd kill a family, including children. It didn't matter to him. Imagine being a child and having a psycho like that take out your entire family while you are at school? That's exactly what happened to the young boy who wasn't home when BTK murdered his family.

Dahmer for obvious reasons. Imagine meeting this asshole in a bar, and ending up in his freezer?

Disagree. its the torture aspect that makes a serial killer total creep factor, getting killed is not the worst. being tortured and knowing you are going to die THATS THE WORST. being handcuffed and knowing whats happening to you has to be horrible. dahmer drugged his prey and BTK killed them quickly so NO. GACY IS THE WORST

I agree with the torture aspect, r177.

Didn't BTK suffocate his victims until they'd pass out, and then became conscious again? And then he'd repeat the process several times before finally killing his victims? I thought that the repeated suffocation was part of his MO. I thought that this is why he was BTK, as in "Bind, Torture, Kill".

Gacy was horrendous. Those poor boys.

Isn't it interesting that we rarely have anymore serial killers in the US? Not that this is a bad thing, but I wonder why that is?

Serial killers have been replaced with shooters. Instead of murdering victims over a prolonged period of time, we now have killers who shoot a large number of people all at once.

I wonder if video games play a part in this shift.

^ Just shows the breakdown of intelligence in America, even amongst homicidal maniacs. Serial killers and mass shooters are both scum, but at least serial killers required some intelligence and planning. Any moron can buy an assault rifle and mow a bunch of people down...

Torture is literally in BTK's (Bind ,Torture, Kill) name.

The most frightening serial killers are the ones who give you no choice and/or the ones who come to you. You had a choice as to whether or not to go home with Gacy or Dahmer. Serial killers like BTK, EAR/ONS, Ramirez, etc...gave their victims no choice, they came to their homes.

Lake and Ng were notably cruel and sadistic. Check out Ng's Wikipedia entry.

But Night Stalker Richard Ramirez was a barking mad psychotic, who wasn't even all that "high functioning," barely keeping it together day-to-day. He was stupid yet effective because he killed with few obvious behavioral patterns, lurching from one break-in to the next. Phillip Carlo's book on Ramirez is excellent if you like the true crime genre.

Toole's "boyfriend" Henry Lee Lucas was a serial confessor r159. When he was finally captured, law enforcement started asking about other murders and Lucas went on a roll. He got special privileges from confessing and LE got to "close" a lot of unsolved murders. Turns out none of, or very very few of them, were true.

Toole is suspected of killing Adam Walsh. At one point, Toole, Bundy, and another one of these shitheads, Gerard Schaefer, were all housed together on Florida's death row, their cells right next to each other. Schaefer and Bundy were rivals- as in who killed more people?- and by putting them next to each other, LE hoped they would get further confessions out of the men.

Ramirez looked like some lead singer straight out of a heavy metal band. The guy really did have an interesting look to him, and great cheek bones. I'm not being weird, I'm just commenting as an "aside".

Dahmer murders juveniles as well as tortured with his zombie experiments.

He also crossed all racial lines.

On top of that, of course, is the cannibalism and the fact he was bold enough to do it all in his own apartment.

He has the full bag of horrors and nobody other than possibly that Scotsman in the 70s can match him

write in Albert Fish.

Fish rules this thread.

Kids are people too. Won't someone think of the children?!

R187, I think Fish was mentioned at the beginning of the thread.

I just took a big shit.

How can there be a worst. They are all horrible.

Surprised no one has mentioned Lawrence Bittaker and Roy Norris. They were evil incarnate. They kidnapped, raped, tortured and murdered six teenage girls in California. Stephen Kay is a lawyer who for years has been trying to keep the Manson killers behind bars. He prosecuted the Bittaker/Norris case. He said most people assume the Manson killings was the worst case he was ever involved with, but no, that wasn't the worst. Bittaker and Noriss were the worst. They made a tape of one of the girls being raped and tortured. It was played during the trial and made some spectators vomit.

Aren't they the 'toolbox killers' mentioned upthread?

Dr. Michael Swango. Read the book BLIND EYE and you will never go to the doctor again.

The onus of Wayne.

Fred West

No, I totally agree, r185. I'm not one of those sickos who get off on serial killers, but I've always thought that Ramirez was actually very good-looking (though reportedly he had rotten teeth).

Henry Lee Lucas was a bogus serial killer. He killed three people, two of them his relatives. He started confessing to hundreds of crimes and, wanting to close the cases, law officials believed him. Lucas really got into his role as "America's Most Prolific Serial Killer." He got favors for his confessions and he confessed to hundreds of murders he could not have possibly committed. Eventually it was determined that his confessions were hoaxes; it's amazing that he was believed by so many. He was obviously a liar scumbag. He was sentenced to death for one of the murders but after it was found out he was somewhere else at the time of the murder his death sentence was commuted to life, by George W. Bush, of all people. He died in prison. A good movie "Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer" was loosely based on him and his partner in crime Ottis Toole.

Toole also confessed to a large number of murders. But he too was a lying scumbag, so he also had no credibility. He was one weird fuck, even for a deranged maniac. The only person in the world who really cared about the brain damaged, ugly, foul-smelling Toole was his mother; after her death he would sometimes to the cemetery where she was buried and lie on top of her grave. He went to a busy mall in Florida with the idea that it might be nice to have a child to keep. He somehow managed to abduct 6 year old Adam Walsh, and later beat the crap out of him and chopped his head off with a machete. Toole was a piece of work. Here's a letter he sent to John Walsh, father of the murdered child:

"Dear Walsh,

My name is Ottis Toole. I'm the person who snatched, raped, murdered and cut up the little prick teaser, Adam Walsh and dumped his smelly ass into the canal. You know the story but you don't know where his bones are. I do.

Now you are a rich fucker, money you made from the dead body of that little kid. Ok, he was a sweet piece of ass! I want to make a deal with you. Here's my deal. You pay me money and I'll teel you where the bones are so you can get him buried all decent and Christian."

Elsewhere in the letter to John Walsh, Toole explained that he wanted $5000 right away as "good faith money" and Walsh's signed promise of $45,000 more once Toole had shown him Adam's bones. Toole closed by telling Walsh that Adam had been crying for his mother as he sodomized him.

"If you send the police after me before we make a deal then you don't get no bones and what's left of Adam's hot pussy can rot," Toole warned. "Tell the cops and you don't get shit."

Carl Panzram

I can't believe that sick fuck Ottis Toole wasn't executed.. or murdered by fellow prisoners, a la Dahmer. Then again, this is Florida we are talking about here...

Lucas was the ultimate con artist who milked the system and enjoyed lots of fried chicken, cable tv, and alone time with hookers for a series of false confessions.

Who were the uncle and nephew who went around raping and killing young women? I think the uncle was Angelo something, but I can't remember the nephew (except that he was pretty hot),

Still, after reading post 24, I think Dean Corll wins this "debate" hands down.

Rynn Jacobs

I'd love to see a remake of "The Little Girl Who Lives Down The Lane." Jodie Foster was cast as Rynn because she was the hot female child star at the time, but Foster was totally wrong for the role. Rynn is a pretty, proper little English girl with "pretty" hair; her looks contrast jarringly with her deeds. Foster was American, tomboyish, and wears a wig in the film that looks like straw. Anyway, if done right a remake might be quite something; the "little girl who lives down the lane" is a serial killer who disposes of anyone who gets in the way of her well planned life.

Foster was brilliant in that movie. What are you talking about? It's probably her best and most natural performance from her whole career. The whole movie is fucking brilliant.

Angelo bueno and Kenneth Bianca were the hillside stranglers

R201 - R205 answered your question.

[quote]Don't forget the Milwaukee PD who sent [bold]Khan supinusenphone[/bold] home with dahmer after he was found wandering the neighborhood naked and disoriented

Um, that's the name of the Laotian neighbor in 'King of the Hill' - the name of Dahmer's 14 year old Laotian victim was Konerak Sinthasomphone.

Per capita wa state has to take the cake for prevalence--green river killer, bundy...The U.S. state that has produced the greatest number of serial killers is New York with 137 separate serial killing cases. Falling in second is California with 128, then Florida with 112, Texas with 97 and rounding out the top five, Washington with 95.

Count Chocula had a long list of victims before his reign of terror ended. He died when they put Holy Water in his cereal's milk

bump

Paul Ryan is working hard to be added to this list. I hope he never gets the pleasure.

Wouldn't worst be the guy who tried to kill a bunch of people but failed every time?

Next question: based on the facts available, who had the worst childhood?

Charles Cullen, the male nurse from New Jersey, admitted to murdering 40 patients, probably killed dozens more.

Imagine all of the nurses and docs who killed patients by committing errors, r213.

I will always be baffled by serial killers. The will, commitment, and impetus that is required to go out, stalk a victim, find the right time, and place to pull it off, over and over again, is mind blowing.

I know that they have absolutely no empathy for their victims, but they obviously feel pleasure and excitement when planning & committing their crimes, or else they would not be motivated to do so.

If I had this defect, I would just kill myself. Same with pedophillia. Why live, when all that I was born to do, is cause others pain and anguish? They say that many of these serial killers are of above average intelligence. If so, then at least be smart and self aware enough to realize that you will bring nothing but darkness to those around you, you cannot be cured, and eventually, you will get caught. If you are never caught, then eventually, you will die, regardless. So why not do the decent thing, and commit suicide? I'm not being callous when I say this. I'm being practical.

The only way that a person with these impulses should be able to function in society, is if they are certain that they can do so without acting out.

Shoo Frau

Harold Shipman a UK GP (primary care doctor) always wins the numbers game as he had 215 proven victims. Though in truth probably Stalin or Hitler should.

"Foster was brilliant in that movie. What are you talking about? It's probably her best and most natural performance from her whole career. The whole movie is fucking brilliant."

There was nothing wrong with her acting but she was totally the wrong type for the role. Same goes with Martin Sheen. He was too young and good looking to play the creepy child molester; the guy described in the book was very gross looking. Anyway, if remade the movie could well be much better than the original.

R214 I agree wholeheartedly with you. I think the same way that you do. And what's more, I end up in a demented rabbit hole of exploring these maniacs' backgrounds, compulsions, and atrocities--then watching interviews--thinking that I'm trying to figure out who they are and what makes them tick, when in reality I am just plain fascinated by inexplicable human perversion.

If you were a serial killer, you wouldn't consider it wrong so you wouldn't kill yourself over it. How many accounts have you read of serial killers racked with guilt?

Serial killers have no moral compass and no remorse for their actions. You are processing their behavior thru a lens of normalcy; most people, even the very self-centered, consider others at times. Sociopaths and psychopaths NEVER do. To them, hunting and torturing and killing is a hobby. No different than collecting coins or baseball cards. They collect trophy kills. It is not really a choice-there is something wrong with how their brain is wired.

Rader's kill count seems so low and spaced out. 4 of the 10 were a family he killed at the same time. And the attention seeking letters... how was he able to pull back from all that for 15ish years? I guess self preservation is one answer but there must be more to it.

They ALL have higher body counts than what's on record

Dennis Rader's bondage selfies in his victims' clothing are creepiest things I've ever seen.

Those are disturbing

Although Richard Chase did get a really creepy nickname of "The Vampire of Sacramento," he doesn't hold a candle to most of these sick fucks. No disrespect to the terror that his victims did feel for a short time, but they were all quickly shot. Yes what he did to their bodies to collect their blood is gruesome, but they were not tortured.

Does anyone remember a sick woman who tortured and murdered several of her daughters-- I think in Sacramento as well?

Theresa Knorr, r226?

She only killed one of her daughters and made her sons burn the body on the side of the highway

One died of dehydration after being locked in a closet. The other was shot the chest then put in the bathtub and left to die, but she survived. When she decided wanted to move out (as one does), her mother wasn't going to let her leave with the evidence so she had one of the sons do the surgery on the kitchen floor with a box cutter. The wound became infected she was left to die again, but didn't. Citing demonic possession that could only be cured with fire, she had two of the sons drive her to Truckee where they burned her alive.

She was porking both sons as well

Gacy is creeping up on Dahmer...

These guys were truly fucking viscious. I was coaxed into watching "Three Men and a Hammer" and couldn't vet past 10 seconds of it. I ended up researching the crime and was utterly horrified at what else these nuts did.

^^ Russians..

I think those Russian boys are tremendous. After all, Americans kill too.

Wow that Knorr woman was evil.

R212, William Bonin appears to have had a truly horrific childhood. I'm not surprised he turned into a serial killer.

Check out his Wiki page. There's a link at R168.

1, 2, 3, Bundy Gacy Dahmer. Bundy was nationwide. I believe I too escaped him, but cant say for sure. Hitching, I was cute with long brown hair. A really good looking curly brown haired guy pulled over i n a vw bug. I had my dog - I asked him where he was going - his response was "wherever you are going." Wrong answer. I was half way in and saw the handle was off the door I jumped out like lightening. Dog too. He sped off. I had an extremely clear sense that I had narrowly escaped with my life. I was a teen.

It was the NE, I believe it was Bundy. Later when he was executed in Fla I was relieved. In fact I shut off all my electricity to make sure they had enough. I always wanted to talk to an investigator to see if he had been in that region.

Gacy had a higher body count than Dahmer, Bundy

Zombie sex slave experiments & cannibalism, people

Makes Gacy with the handcuff trick look like an afternoon on match game '75

[Quote]Gacy had a higher body count than Dahmer, Bundy

No. Gacy "officially" had 33 victims, Bundy 35. Yes each man probably killed more, but it's much more likely that Bundy killed far beyond his official number. There's at least an additional dozen women and girls named by law enforcement that are likely victims of his.

Jack the Ripper

[quote]Gacy "officially" had 33 victims, Bundy 35.

Amateurs! Confessed to a total of 56 murders, tried for 53 and sentenced to death for 52.

I'm still puzzled at how the thread escalated so. Nothing especially juicy or indiscreet was shared. Is this what it's like to deal with teenagers?

You're puzzled that a thread about serial killers makes it 200 posts of more, R244? Are you new around DataLounge?

"posts or more" ^^

I'd love to see that picture of Rosalynn Carter and her buddy John Wayne Gacy.

R151 Hitler fits. He targeted specific groups, had people tortured, performed medical experiments on living people, gassed people...he totally fits the serial killer profile to a T.

Hillary Rodham Clinton. She's killed hundreds.

What a lovely couple.

I read a book about Jeffrey Dahmer, and there was an incident in which somebody turned the tables on Dahmer and it proved to be unintentionally humorous.

Dahmer was often at gay bars because he was an alcoholic. One night a man picked him up and took him to his home. When Dahmer woke up from his alcoholic haze he discovered he was naked and that the man had hoisted him up with a rope toward the ceiling. The man was poking a candle in and out of Dahmer's anus/bum. He finally got away and went home but when he took a shit, wax from the candle came out of his ass.

I don't know why he didn't get contact lenses.

R252, really? LMAO.

To the woman upthread yes bundy was in the philly and NJ areas killing

One of the best documentaries on Dahmer. Haunting.

[quote]Wouldn't worst be the guy who tried to kill a bunch of people but failed every time?

R211, then my choice would be one-half of the Hillside Stranglers, Kenneth Bianchi. The first time he killed without his cousin Angelo, he left so many clues that he was caught almost immediately afterwards.

Albert Fish FTW

Slim Whitman

This thread has me terrified. I hadn't heard of half these people. One case sticks out for me from childhood was Karla Homolka and Paul Bernardo, dubbed the Ken and Barbie killers of Canada. He was raping women and when he met Karla and shared his twisted fantasies she was into it. She wanted to give him the "gift" of taking her 14 year old sister's virginity. They drugged the sister and Karla molested her before Paul raped her. This was all filmed too. The sister accidentally died from choking on her own vomit. They then lured teen girls (separate occasions) and kept them chained in the basement, raping them for hours while filming it, before finally killing them and chopping their bodies up to put in concrete slabs to throw in a lake. Karla took a plea deal and testified against Bernardo, after the deal was done the police found the videotapes which showed she was an active participant in the crimes. The scum is out of jail and is now remarried with kids.

Richard Speck

Probably Ted Bundy. Sick maniac who just became sicker.

[quote] "Good God, I'd never even heard of Croll til I read the Wiki entry."

It's CRAWL," girlfren. As in...how I got home from the gay clubs. Sheesh.

R260. Will research later, but how did he/they get released?

That seems incomprehensible.

He wasn't released.

She was after she lied about her involvement and cut a deal.

She is out there under an assumed name

R260, some of your details are incorrect. No basement. All crimes took place in their home. Bathroom, bedroom, kitchen, living room.

When Karla was arrested, she claimed that she was forced to participate in the kidnappings, rapes, and homicides, because Paul was beating her. It turned out that he was. Toward the end of their "partnership" it had been documented that Paul has battered Karla. DV incidents had been investigated and document by the local authorities, prior to their arrest. There was a file on Paul, that contained photographs taken by local LEOs, featuring Karla with significant bruising to her face.

You are correct in that Karla did cut a deal, and it was discovered later on via evidence (video recordings of their crimes) that Karla was an enthusiastic participant.

I have reviewed transcripts of these recordings. Absolutely gruesome. I've read about horrible cases in the past, however, I will never forget the transcript and details about Kristen French. They had her sequestered for the longest amount of time. It was one of the worst things that I have ever read, and it will stay with me forever.

If I was not a law abiding citizen, or if I didn't care about being in prison, I'd be tempted to track her down and put a bullet right between her eyes. I'm surprised it hasn't already been done.

The fact that she is married with children (who as far as I know, are girls, btw) and gets to change her name and go on her merry way, is mind blowing.

Last I heard, she and her family were living in the Bahamas, or the Caribbean. Not sure how accurate that is.

The house did have a basement r266

Here's a description of one of thextapesxplayed in court

The first scene had been taped in the basement recreation room of the Homolka house not long after Tammy Lyn's death. Karla Homolka was on her back, lying on a rug before the fireplace, naked, her legs spread wide apart while she masturbated for the camera, which was positioned a few feet away, at about knee level, and pointed directly at her vagina.

Gasps of surprise and disgust, perhaps even shock, along with plenty of embarrassed giggles, could be heard throughout the courtroom as the camera lingered on Homolka's exposed body for several minutes while she stimulated herself. To many in the courtroom, showing that particular video seemed an amazing way for the Crown to treat the woman who was scheduled to be their chief witness. For the previous two years, ever since her arrest, Homolka's face had been almost as well know as the prime minister's. She had been seen on television in footage taken at her wedding, with her friends, and at her trial. There had been countless photographs of her in newspapers and magazines around the world. But few people in the courtroom that day were expecting to see a triple-X-rated tape, a close study of the country's most infamous woman in a variety of sexually explicit positions.

The prosecutors, though, had their reasons for showing the video. On it, she and Bernardo talked about the death of Tammy Lyn. Although Bernardo's trial for her death might well follow his trial for first-degree murder, the Crown wanted to present evidence on Tammy's death as part of its general picture of the relationship between the two. Homolka's dialogue on the tape, Houlahan had said in his opening address, had been scripted by Bernardo. That is, Bernardo had told her what to say when she was on camera, and if she didn't obey him, she was punished with a beating.

But what the court saw was a seemingly relaxed Homolka pulling down her husband's pants, fondling his penis, which she called Snuggles, and then performing fellatio during most of the tape, stopping every now and then to talk about what had happeded to her dead sister. (Link fo rest )

"I loved it when you fucked my little sister," Homolka said to Bernardo, who was lying on his back beside the roaring hearth, moaning softly while she rubbed his penis.

"I loved it when you fucked Tammy. I loved it when you took her virginity. You're the king. I love licking your ass, Paul. I'll bet Tammy would have loved to lick your ass. I loved it when you put Snuggles up her ass."

BTW the link above gets very disturbing so be forewarned-- I hadn't read the whole thing before posting. They were depraved

From the beginning of their relationship, Karla noticed that Bernardo had taken a particular liking to Tammy. He would often pay special attention to her, and even went so far as to have his girlfriend pretend to be her sister during sex. In other instances, he would secretly watch Tammy undress from outside the Homolka house, masturbating as he watched.[citation needed]

In September 1990, as their relationship progressed, Bernardo started to press Karla to allow him to have sex with Tammy. She eventually conceded and obtained a bottle of Halothane (a liquid general anesthetic) from the veterinary clinic where she worked, that would later be used to sedate Tammy during the rape. On December 24, 1990, Tammy was drugged with a combination of Halcion and alcohol, passing out in the family room in the basement of the Homolka house. Tammy's parents and sister Lori were upstairs asleep at the time.[citation needed]

They filmed the entire rape, taking turns holding the camera, using the Halothane to keep Tammy unconscious.[citation needed]

Three weeks after Tammy Homolka's death, Karla and Bernardo filmed a video called "The Fireside Chat" within the Homolka residence. The video was eventually viewed as court evidence. It started in the basement recreation room and at some point the filming moved into Tammy's bedroom. While they were in the recreation room, Karla admitted to Bernardo that she enjoyed Bernardo's rape of Tammy. She also stated in the video that she would like to leave a rose at Tammy's grave site because it had touched Bernardo on his genitals. When they were in Tammy's bedroom, Karla dressed up in Tammy's clothing as well as acted just like her sister. They eventually had sex on Tammy's bed.[citation needed]

In 2001, the magazine Elm Street published an article in which it implied that forensic evidence proved that Tammy's death was not an accident and that her sister had deliberately administered an overdose of Halothane. The magazine described Karla as a "malignant narcissist" who was so incensed by her fiance's attraction to her sister that she took steps to remove Tammy from his affections permanently.[1]

--------------------------------------

Not mentioned in this article and what I find unbelievable is the ineptness of the police and legal system in their Ontario town. The sister had burns on her face and I'm sure evidence of rape, yet the police took Homolka and Bernardo's story about how she died at face value. The police just seemed to sweep the sister's death under the rug, as well as Bernardo stalking claims by other women. If they investigated it would have prevented some, if not all, of the other murders. He also raped dozens of women for years.

I think Homolka's lawyer knew where the tapes were hidden and kept them until AFTER the plea deal. Shouldn't withholding evidence have voided the deal? It's unbelievable that's she's out of jail and her family still supported her through all of it. Another thing I didn't know reading one of the linked articles is that there was another teenager, a Jane Doe, that they killed.

Ted Bundy warned shortly before his execution that it had been his addiction to hard-core violent pornography that had opened the door for all that came later. Once hooked, the porn wasn't enough to satisfy his homicidal/necrophilia cravings. He never outright confessed but his regret about the violent porn was about as far as he went on that. Not long ago, Germany sponsored public adverts encouraging people with child molesting tendencies to get help (free) before acting out their impulses. I don't know whether that helped with Germany's child abuse stats but it seems like an enlightened way to deal with an issue before it becomes a crime. Could the likes of the people discussed in this thread benefitted from some type of intervention before they acted out their monstrous fantasies? Or as someone previously wrote, would suicide been their best option?

By the way, Tammy told her sister and brother-in-law that she would not participate in their activities because "some things are worth dying for." Could two sisters have been more different. RIP.

[quote]Last I heard, she and her family were living in the Bahamas, or the Caribbean. Not sure how accurate that is.

They were living in Guadeloupe but they're back in Canada now.

[quote]Now she’s been back in La Belle Province since at least 2014 and reportedly using the name Leanne Teale — an especially chilling choice. Homolka and Bernardo had applied to change their legal names to Leanne Teale and Paul Jason Teale after coming across the surname in a movie about a serial killer. They received formal approval five days before his arrest in 1993.

God bless those wacky Canadians!

The British have fewer but they're colorful.

Fred and Rosemary West creep me out but they were all or mostly women. If I were a child I'd want to avoid the Moors Murders couple, Ian Brady and Myra Hindley.

Didn't the Yorkshire Ripper have a raw sexual heat according to the press of the day?

R183, what did Ramirez do that made you say he barely kept it together? I'm not doubting you, I'm just curious because I picked him as the #1 scariest serial killer, but I haven't read the book. I might be too scared to read it.

What his day-to-day like when he wasn't killing?

In the end bundy looked like the sicko he was

Would you have tricked with Ted Bundy? I would have.

I would think Henry Lee Lucas is the worst (at least of the ones on the list). I remember reading he had admitted to more than 50 murders and the authorities said they believed him.

The worst is obviously Timothy McVeigh who killed 128 in the Ok City Ok bombing.

Here's some more heinous mass murderers (sorry if they've been listed but I don't have time to read through this whole thread.

Adam Lamza - killed 27 at Sandy Hook Seung-Hui Cho - killed 32 at Virginia Tech Omar Mateen - Killed 49 at Orlando

eh, mass shooters are their own vile, disgusting category. They don't belong on this thread. (Not that serial killers are any better, but...)

Richard Speck wasn't a serial killer. He was a mass murderer. Same with Timothy McVeigh and Adam Lanza and Seung-Hui Cho and Omar Mateen. Mass murderers, not serial killers.

The tricky diagnosis is cunanan

Some say spree killer while others say serial killer.

Perhaps he's some unique hybrid

He was an esprit killer

Many serial killers have already started a life of crime before they start the actual killings. Ted Bundy had a police record for stealing many items, including cars. Jeffrey Dahmer had the police phoned on him for masturbating in front of teenage boys, etc. He killed his first victim when he was only a teenager but that wasn't known until he was caught and confessed. Serial killers don't go from being innocent, little angels to all of a sudden murdering people. The red flags start to spring up early.

Trivia fact: Before Ted Bundy stared his main occupation (killing women) he worked for a time on a Suicide Prevention Phone Line. Some co-workers said that he did okay but others stated that he was a tad hard on the callers. Isn't it ironic...........

Jeffery Dahmer's parents were the worst; always at each other's throats, totally inadequate, totally oblivious to the fact there was something very wrong with their son. Somebody asked his father if little Jeffrey had ever exhibited any odd behavior as a child. His father said no, although he did like to scrape the meat off of dead animals. Totally clueless.

I remember hearing a story about Bundy. After he had been caught, jailed and sentenced, a psychologist would go and interview him. More than one visit, etc.

One day, the doctor was in a room talking with Ted who (obviously) could be very charming. Someone came to the room to tell Bundy that his final appeal had been rejected.

As I remember it, the doctor said that quick as a flash, good, charming Ted changed into bad Ted. The doctor could actually see the sudden transformation.

That would have been the last face that his victims saw.

The famous true crime writer, Ann Rule actually worked with Ted Bundy.

The Gilgo Beach killer is the worst (best) because he's still out there. Killing.

That's so fucked up, R270. It's unbelievable how the police let go of the poor sister's clearly traumatic death so easily. I wonder what was going through the parents' minds after the murder? Those two sickos made those subsequent sex tapes in the parents' house, right? And what do you mean, R271? Did they approach Tammy earlier about helping them commit rapes?

R287 = M Bill Phelps

I believe that the killers offered to go "easier" on Tammy if she cooperated in the sex acts. I don't know if that means they wouldn't have still killed her.

R290- I find it unconscionable that the family: mom, dad, sister, aunts and uncles etc.. supported Karla after not only raping, sodomizing and killing those girls, but their own daughter/relative. I would have disowned her at the very least. Both she and Bernardo both really needed to be put to death.

R292, I'm not sure that's true. They got her very drunk from the beginning and then used halothane. Even if she came to at some point, I don't think she'd be in any state of mind to think or say anything clearly.

This is a picture of post mortem Tammy, how police and medical personnel didn't investigate the burns is really unbelievable. How would acidic vomit be able to make that type of burn mark on her cheek of all places? The following article explains the forensics. It also seems that Carla purposely killed Tammy.

In the story as it’s most often told, when Paul and Karla made their home movie of her sister’s Christmas Eve rape, suddenly Tammy “turned blue” and vomited; supposedly, a noxious combination of alcohol, food, sedatives, and Halothane, caused the vomit to be acidic or caustic. The acidity of the vomit coming in contact with skin is often cited as the most likely source of the burn. But if you look closely at the morgue photo you see very fine facial hair on Tammy’s face, even in the areas the burn covers. Something caustic enough to leave a burn that raspberry red certainly would’ve taken babyfine facial hair with it.

Since it did no damage to the eyebrows or eyelashes, the burn does not appear to be the result of anything flammable or the result of a splash with corrosive material, and the demarcated edges of the burn stand above the top layer of skin, as in relief. In other words, the burn does not appear to be topical and a 2001 article in the Canadian journal Elm Street cites medical examiner Dr. Vincent Di Mao, who says the anesthetic “pools” below the skin.

Keep in mind, it only “pools” in this instance, because it’s supposed to be used with a vaporizer and the Halothane has steadily decreasing amounts of oxygen to mix with. And keep in mind it’s “pooling” because someone’s still applying it to Tammy’s nose and mouth. According to a police report which was never made public, at the time her sister began “to look funny”, as Karla puts it, Paul Bernardo was in another room asleep, and was awakened by her 45 minutes to an hour after the videotape shows the sexual assault on Tammy stopped. Coordinating the events of that night with the starting and stopping point of the videotape, and the time the call was made to Emergency Services—it appears that only Karla Homolka was with her sister when she died.

OMG that poor girl. Clearly that burn suggests that she needed a full autopsy, which should have included a rape kit. It makes me so angry that they could just sweep that under the rug. I don't want to make assumptions about the family, because maybe they pushed for further investigation and were rebuffed, but something is just amiss here. Could it be as simple as incompetence on the behalf of the police? Think about the victims that could have been spared if these fuckers had been prosecuted for the crimes committed on Tammy.

[QUOTE} R284 Many serial killers have already started a life of crime before they start the actual killings. Ted Bundy had a police record for stealing many items, including cars. Jeffrey Dahmer had the police phoned on him for masturbating in front of teenage boys, etc. He killed his first victim when he was only a teenager but that wasn't known until he was caught and confessed. Serial killers don't go from being innocent, little angels to all of a sudden murdering people. The red flags start to spring up early.

When I was a teenager I had a friend who was clearly batshit crazy and destined to become a serial killer. He used to capture cats, kittens and dogs and slice their heads off in the bath.

By the time he was 16 he'd clearly progressed a lot when he kidnapped a girl raped and sliced her. The incident was never reported to the police and he was found beaten and stabbed to death a few days after she escaped. I'd imagine the girls family had resolved the situation.

The police could never find any information (I doubt they looked too hard) his death remains 'unsolved'.

[QUOTE] R284 Many serial killers have already started a life of crime before they start the actual killings. Ted Bundy had a police record for stealing many items, including cars. Jeffrey Dahmer had the police phoned on him for masturbating in front of teenage boys, etc. He killed his first victim when he was only a teenager but that wasn't known until he was caught and confessed. Serial killers don't go from being innocent, little angels to all of a sudden murdering people. The red flags start to spring up early.

When I was a teenager I had a friend who was clearly batshit crazy and destined to become a serial killer. He used to capture cats, kittens and dogs and slice their heads off in the bath.

By the time he was 16 he'd clearly progressed a lot when he kidnapped a girl raped and sliced her. The incident was never reported to the police and he was found beaten and stabbed to death a few days after she escaped. I'd imagine the girls family had resolved the situation.

The police could never find any information (I doubt they looked too hard) his death remains 'unsolved'.

Wow, R296. Where are you from?

The Gilgo Beach Serial Killer was calling a family member on his victim's cell phone and describing how he fucked and then killed her. That's hardcore.

Norman Bates

The Gilgo Beach Killer might be ex-the Suffolk County Police Commissioner.. the county where the murders occurred.

R297

I am from Manchester in the UK, people very rarely give the police any information here unless it involves child abuse or assaulting vulnerable people.

A known nut-job getting killed for raping and slashing a young girl is not going to get members of the public to give information to the police. People who 'grass' in that situation would have to move to another country!

R296

R296 Sounds like Howard Beach justice.

There has long been speculation that the Gilgo Beach Killer was connected to law enforcement, based on his behavior.

Ex Ex-commissioner Burke tried to stymie the FBI investigation into the Gilgo Beach Killer case.

For those of you unfamiliar with Fred and Rose West, they are fascinating. There's a great book called "Happy like Murderers" about them and their crimes. Their daughter Anne Marie wrote a book about her experiences growing up in that household and it's really shocking. It's thought that they kidnapped, tortured and killed over a hundred girls and the bodies have not been found.

Sorry. I was wrong. It was another of the Bernardo/Homolka victims who said it.

Kristen French was abducted by Karla Homolka and Paul Bernardo on April 16th, 1992 while she was on her way home from school. She was fifteen at the time of her abduction. Karla lured her by asking for directions; a different tactic than Paul had previously used. She was then forced into the car at knife point by Paul, which is possibly what he had done before. Several people witnessed this kidnapping.

Kristen was held captive as a sex slave for three days, all while being forced to drink large amounts of alcohol. She said to Paul while she was being held captive, "Some things are worth dying for. I don't know how your wife can stand to be around you." which is something she is remembered for.

On April 19th, 1992, Kristen was strangled to death by Paul. Her naked body was dumped near the cemetery where Leslie Mahaffy was buried. Her hair was cut; this was Karla's attempt to keep people from identifying her. "

This is why I have an alarm system and will be getting a gun by the end of the year. I think I'll watch some porn instead of meeting anyone Grindr hookups this weekend.

Racial twist here: Black serial killer Wayne Williams. He killed over 20 black boys during the Atlanta Child Killer time period. Originally the killer what thought to be white but Wayne was caught throwing a young, black corpse off a bridge and was apprehended. Was sentenced to prison for life for 2 of the child murders but maintains his innocence, like most criminals do. A real weirdo.

Oh, hon

I read two books on the Homolka/Bernardo murders. The best one is Invisible Darkness: The Horrifying Case of Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka. It is written by someone who was involved in the case and written by someone who clearly viewed the tapes. So he was able to shed a more honest light on Karla than other books have. The Canadian government even locked him up for a short while because some of the stuff he wrote in the book wasn't supposed to be printed.

Here's one for ya: I read a book about Jeffrey Dahmer and there was an early incident that was both unintentionally humorous and bizarre.

When he was only 15, Jeffrey noticed the same male jogger running past his parents' house early every morning. He took a liking to him, wanted to meet him, and also wanted him for himself. Early one morning, Jeffrey took a baseball bat, went outside and hid in some bushes, waiting for the jogger to run by again. It was his plan to hit the jogger on the head with the baseball bat and then drag him into the house.

By some miracle (for the male jogger) the man didn't run past their house that morning and young Jeffrey never saw him again. And as a footnote, Jeffrey's dating skills didn't improve as he got older.

Why in the world would Rosalynn Carter pose with a serial killer?

She thought he was a representative for Kellogg's.

Here's one for ya: I read a book about PMBT and there was an early incident that was both unintentionally humorous and bizarre.

When he was only 15, John noticed the same male jogger running past his evil mother's house early every morning. He took a liking to his double eyelids and milky complexion, wanted to meet him, and also wanted him for himself. Early one morning, John took a heavy textbook, went outside and hid in some bushes, waiting for the jogger to run by again. It was his plan to hit the jogger on the head with the textbook and then drag him into the house and dissect him.

By some miracle (for the male jogger) the man didn't run past their house that morning and young PMBT never saw him again. And as a footnote, John's dating skills didn't improve as he got older.

Albert Fish or any child killer SK, and Randy Kraft as well as Ted Bundy.

All the politicians in this country forever who allowed millions to die for lack of healthcare and in some cases food.

I'd mention the leaders in all countries who do this but in the world's richest country it is the worst kind of serial murder.

Happy belated birthday to Ed Gein, although he's technically NOT a serial killer with only two deaths to his name.

Aww, that's sweet, R317.

The ones who lived with the decaying corpses on their victims have an added creepy layer for me - the Poughkeepsie Killer and the Cleveland Strangler. They both kept their victims in the house for years and neighbors noticed the smells, but no one could determine where it was coming from. Vice did a great doc on The Cleveland Strangler, Anthony Sowell recently. The PK died in prison, HIV, that he contracted from one of his victims.

How did the PK killer's family not smell the corpses, never mind not hear the live prostitutes during sex or when they arrived at the house in the first place?

I have always wondered that, r320. Investigators said that the family kept up the appearance of a normal, middle class family as the sister was a college student, the mother may have been a teacher or nurse, and dad had a factory blue collar job. Meanwhile, the sister slept on a mattress in the dining or living room area, mere feet from maggots and heaps of trash. I think that the entire family suffered from mental illness. The pictures of the house are appalling.

That Chikatilo guy is creepy as hell. Hwhen looked like a raving madman like someone possessed. A figure from your worst nightmare. *shivers

Also about Ramirez can anyone who lived through that tell me more about how communities coped with that? Did you talk together about arming yourselves or taking some kind of precautions?

I would've put bars on the windows. Was that a thing back then? He entered those homes way too easily.

r308 There are a lot of people, I among them that think Williams was railroaded. There were two distinct groups of boys and young men dying in Atlanta. One group was young black boys the other teenagerish young black men. I believe Williams was killing the teenagers but the boys were killed by someone different.

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R324, your definition of "railroaded" needs some serious thought. You're saying Williams was a serial killer who killed some people but not as many as authorities believed. That hardly means he was railroaded. A difference in numbers doesn't mean he isn't a serial killer.

Did the other purported serial killer go on killing?

R320 they did not notice since the inside of the Francois house was disgusting they were basically literally living in filth, nobody cleaned anything, and when one of the many women's bodies decomposed maggots fell out of the ceiling and Kendall claimed that it must have been from a dead raccoon and nobody went to look or clean it up. I read about this in a book about him where some white woman wannabe journalist became obsessed with him and gave you a few glimpses into his life; but she wound up being manipulated by him and the book was mainly about her.

R324 Wayne Williams was NOT railroaded he killed those black kids. If you have seen interviews with him like this one he does not hide that he did not like them and basically thought they were ghetto trash.

Bundy was evil incarnate.

R327, it reminds me of those "nose blind" commercials. I have never smelled a rotting corpse, but I hear that the stench is unmistakeable. I read about that book although I haven't actually read it. Didn't a detective visit his home and bedroom at one point? I can only imagine the level of filth that would cause a normal human being to write it all off as dirty living.

Re Wayne, the Atlanta Child Murderer...I think he's guilty of all of the crimes ranging from young children to older guys. He may not have done all of them, but he had a range of victims. He was such an awful liar that only negligence on behalf of the police can account for how he got away with it for so long.

Gary Ridgeway - Green River Killer.

There have been too many evil serial killers to say that one s the worst. But two of the worst were Lawrence Bittaker and Roy Norris. They decided to team up and and kidnap and rape and kill teenager girls. They eventually killed six of them. Before killing them they were raped repeatedly. One of the kills they tried to kill by driing an ice pick into her ear. They didn't kill her so they drove it in her other ear. That didn't do the trick either, so they ended up strangling her. When her body was found the ice pick was still stuck in her ear. Their final victim was the one tortured the most. Bittaker used pliers on her niipples (he got the nickname "Pliers' in prison). She was beaten on her elbows with a hammer. The two fiends made a tape recording of her screaming and moaning in pain. Usually they disposed of the bodies by throwing them in a canyon but they decided it would be fun to see how people would react to a mutilated dead body in their yard, so they dumped their last victim right on somebody's lawn.

They were eventually caught and imprisoned. Norris testified against Bittaker and got a life sentence. He's still in jail. Bittaker got the death penalty. He's been on Death Row in California for decades.

A policeman who worked on this case was so tormented by it he committed suicide. Stephen Kay was the prosecutor in this case; he was also involved in prosecuting members of the Manson family. He said people assume the Manson case is the worst one he ever worked on, but actually the worst one was the Norris/Bittaker serial murders.

Gaëtan Dugas

I am really surprised they were able to make this film:

The graphic novel it is based on, My Friend Dahmer, is really good. By a guy who went to high school with JD.

It's all so horrifying. What makes these people do these things? Psychosis? Bitterness? Depravity?

The podcast Serial Killers recently did a two parter on The Toolbox Killers, mentioned at r332.

There seems to be a dearth of serial killers lately. Why is that?

R337 DNA testing, the internet makes it harder to be anonymous, more police, the legality of abortion

r271 Bundy the pussy lied about the porn thing. For someone who killed so many and claimed to have no guilt, he did not want to meet his maker and at the zero hour he got religion and went on the 700 club I think, trying to get his execution called off for mitigating circumstances. Bundy was always my favorite piece of shit and I can't believe he would become such a fucking wimp at the end. He also claimed he knew where more victims were, etc. anything to put off his death. I'm not saying that violent porn didn't contribute to some of these people's killings, I'm just saying that Bundy used that excuse because it turns out he was a scared little bitch.

R338 what does abortion or the legalization of it have to do with serial killers? The rest of your post is correct, and with DNA and criminals being put into the CODIS database cold cases are being solved.

R339 did you ever read the book the stranger beside me by Ann Rule? It is about Ted Bundy. Ted was a disgusting excuse for a human being and he was a necrophile rapist, and I would not be surprised if he ate human flesh as well as he's that sick.

This is a discussion board about serial killers. Some of the links on it are NSFW.

The legalization of abortion is cited as a major reason for the overall drop in violent crime rates beginning in the 90s.

R340 a lot of serial killers have mommy issues, I would guess that women who cannot cope with raising a child because of mental illness or living in utter poverty or being raped and resenting the child can now get abortions and the number of mentally ill serial killers being born drops.

Harold Shipman killed a confirmed 218, possibly as many as 457. Busy, busy man.

How can one serial killer possibly be any worse than another serial killer

^^ The Gilgo Beach killer used a victim's cell phone to call and taunt family members. Tracking shows that he called from midtown Manhattan where it's impossible to track one person by cell or by CCTV.

The Gilgo Beach one really fascinates me. I think it's a cop.

R344 what about how there are some women and men who are serial killers who claim to be professional doctors or people giving abortions but they just murder kids or children instead?

R348 I believe that the LISK or Gilgo beach serial killer-if there's not two one that dismembers victims and the other one that put them out in the open in the sacks posed-is some low key guy that has worked in the area for decades and knows the area and either works outside or does something where he drive around Long Island, and the work could be seasonal.

I believe that this woman was the early victim of the LISK that dismembers his victims.

[quote]Who was the worst serial killer?

The dread pirate Capn Crunch.

The ones that kill kids and torture them and even cannibalize them like Albert Fish. If you really want to get freaked out look at his X Ray but don't say I did not warn you!

Chandra Levy was UGLY.

There's nothing like a really good serial killer to spice things up.

It's been so long since we've had a really active and scary one.

Agreed r353, my friends know of my interest in Bundy, etc and try to interest me in that fat guy Kohlepp or whatever or the LI killer but they don't speak to me, they seem stupid and they are definitely lazy. Anyone could have someone come to their house and kill them, try being a fucking wacko like Dahmer and getting someone to go home with you. Dahmer had those pedo glasses and looked unhinged and molester-y.

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[quote]what about how there are some women and men who are serial killers who claim to be professional doctors or people giving abortions but they just murder kids or children instead?

Are you seriously claiming that doctors who perform abortions are serial killers? This is the wrong board foryou, hun

R356, no I am not claiming this.

There have been serial killers who pretended to be doctors or medical professionals who would lure women in claiming they could give them an abortion and then they would wind up murdering the woman.

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Mitt Romney.

Karla Homolka was in the news this summer.

r361 you may be worse than Hitler...

I saw some show about Baumeister and couldn't figure out how his wife didn't have a clue he was gay. She came across as either very naive or learning disabled though.

I think Marybeth Tinning deserves an honorable mention.

Hands down, Dean Corll was the worst serial killer ever.

R358 I would not be surprised if he is one of the LISKs or the Manorville Ripper and murdered Tina Foglia in the early 1980s.

R365 did you ever read the book the man with the candy by Jack Olsen? It's horrible how the Houston PD allowed Dean and his accomplices to kill boys ad men for so long and would tell the parents and siblings of the murdered kids, "Oh your son/brother must have ran away! He'll be back!"

I would not be surprised if Dean and his accomplices Elmer Wayne Henley and David Brooks murdered even more boys we don't know about, and who have not been discovered, and if Henley and Brooks murdered girls/women.

Carl Panzram?

The Corll and Gacy cases creep me out most--there for the grace of GOd.

Henry Lee Lucas with Ottis Toole. The personification of every Deliverance nightmare come to life.

same here R69.

here's a really creepy conspiracy theory, that I believe or believe some of.

Serial killers Dean Corll, John Wayne Gacy, and even Larry Eyler knew about each other, were influenced by each other, and were part of a pedo/hebephile ring. I would not be surprised if Gacy and Eyler knew each other socially from gay bars in or around Chicago in the 1970s. According to people who have researched this Gacy had accomplices and wanted to imitate Dean Corll who murdered lots of boys, teens, and young men in and around Houston Texas. These people also claim that law enforcement in Chicago knew fully well what Gacy was doing but let him continue since one of his accomplices was the son of a high ranking person in Chicago.

The archived site below has or used to have great articles or blog posts about this, but you can't really find them on the new site or they're hidden.

From the old site: Several years before the Chicago contractor's arrest, the families of missing boys told police they suspected Gacy was involved, but he was allowed to continue his predations until at least 33 victims were dead.

How about Haarmann, the butcher who sold meat from the victims in depression -era Germany ? Peter Lorre is a close second.

Carl Panzram...gay rapist murderer who boasted of raping and murdering hundreds of men and boys. Google him.

Sorry but the added value of clown suit will ALWAYS triumph in its dark comic majesty above all other evils

Bob Berdella. The pictures he took of torturing his victims will never fully scrub from your brain if you look them up. He was like a mix of Dahmer, Gacy and Corll. He wanted a sex slave, was ugly (looked like a fatter Ned Flanders), and he was into sadistic torture.

He'd keep them for weeks, too. Tied up, repeatedly drugged and raped, chemicals in the eyes and ears and mouth, starved, electrocuted genitals and nipples, broken bones. One guy was fisted so brutally there was a rupture and he bled to death. Berdella would keep a record of their torture, like it was an experiment. Then when they died he'd dismember them, bury them on property, and keep their skulls.

And then there's this: "On one occasion on the second week of his capture, Stoops asked Berdella if he could have a soft drink and a sandwich, which Berdella refused, at which point Stoops burst into tears." After 2 weeks of torture and rape he couldn't give the poor guy a fucking sandwich and soda before he died? Worst serial killer ever.

Heartbreaking loss on all sides. Some of our finest tops. If only they’d realised their full potential/true calling

Any total bottom serial killers?

R372 yes the pedo/hebephile serial killer Haarmann was also extremely creepy, and he had accomplices, like Hans Gans. The wikipedia article on Haarmann in German tells more about Hans than the English version does.

R373 Carl Panzram was not gay he was a pedophile/hebephile, and also had sex with girls and women. I read his collection of letters and it's well worth the read.

Dean Corll was by far the worst. Randy Kraft (still on Death Row) was a close second.

I don't know but Ted Bundy could get it any time.

Unfortunately the 'Worst Serial Killers' are never caught, but Sidney Cooke, Leslie Bailey, Robert Oliver and Lennie Smith in the UK deserve more investigation.

I will post a link to the book that I read many years ago, there are many unanswered questions and victims.

Lambs To The Slaughter The unfinished story of child murders Sidney Cooke, Leslie Bailey, Robert Oliver and Lennie Smith

R380 the book Angel of Darkness about Randy Kraft is an excellent read. It also mentions other gay/pedophile/hebephiles serial killers like Patrick Wayne Kearney, and William Bonin who were all in Southern California and sexually abusing and murdering boys and young men. I would NOT be surprised if they knew of each other, or followed the murders in the media .

There are still serial murderers among us. What about that carpenter guy from the Pacific NW a few years ago, who'd fly to Chicago, rent a car, and then drive to the east coast to murder people. He murdered a professor couple in Vermont. IIRC, he refused to cooperate w investigators and killed himself in jail, so no trial.

Not one of the worst, obviously, but the notion that technology has eliminated serial killers is not correct. This fellow had a wife/gf and was generally liked by employers, coworkers. Must be a compulsion, not just an idle hobby.

^ Israel Keyes. He would bury murder kits ahead of time and retrieve them before killing.

Yes Israel Keyes was scary and I believe he killed more people we may not know about or haven't been attributed to him yet.

This is fascinating, yet frustrating. A familial match was performed to ID the Gilgo Beach killer.

Based on that, he is being identified as the LISK.

R205, or anyone really, were the Hillside Stranglers the same as The Hollywood Strangler as mentioned by Laurie Anderson in her piece of the same name? I've often wondered who she was talking about (as far as I know there is no serial killer with that name), and I think those crimes fit the best to the story as she tells it, but if someone else knows better, I'd be interested to hear it. The piece is as below:

"I was living out in West Hollywood when the Hollywood Strangler was strangling women. Every night there was a panel discussion on TV about the Strangler. Speculations about his habits, his motives, his methods. One thing was clear about him: he only strangled women when they were alone or with other women. Now the panel members would always end the show by saying: 'Now for all you women, listen. Don't go outside without a man, don't walk out to your car, don't even take the garbage out by yourself. Always go with a man.

"Then, one of the eyewitnesses identified a policeman as one of the suspects. The next night the Chief of Police was on the panel, and he said: 'now for all you women, whatever happens, do not stop for a police officer. Stay in your car. If a police officer tries to stop you, do not stop. Keep driving and under no circumstances should you get out of your car.

"For a few weeks, half the traffic in LA was doing twice the speed limit."

I answered Baumeister here because timing and location wise......there but for the grace of Judy Garland goes I.........

Dahmer. He drilled holes in men's heads and poured battery acid inside their skulls to lobotomize them, and he did this while they were still alive and conscious, so they'd be able to feel it happening to them.

worst serial killer? How morbid. OP forgot all of the above as the last entry. They were all terrible human beings and that is putting it mildly.

Disgusting thread. I didn't vote but I started reading the posts and gave up before a dozen. OP spent too much time in research for this thread...some of the names are meaningless to the general population. OP - and I'm assuming some of you posters - please get help.

Donald Trump is closing in on 185,000 coronavirus deaths with many more on the way. He certainly should be included in this thread.

Anders Behring Breivik - the right wing Norwegian who shot 69 children dead who were attending a Workers League summer camp.

^that’s a mass-murderer, not a serial killer

Run out of 2015 threads?

[quote]How morbid.

Oh Mary, please.

Here's the information about Israel Keyes, who admired Ted Bundy and sought to emulate him.

He confessed to three murders (including the vermont couple), but the police think he killed at least eight more.

OP, in case no one said this above (I am too exhausted to go through 400 posts) most people now do not think De Salvo was the actual Boston Strangler.

I fell into a weird rabbit hole yesterday and came across the story of Robert Berdella. I knew about the others (Gacy, Corll, Dahmer, obviously), but not Berdella.

Holy shit. Cannot unread -- and I had zero interest in looking up the pictures, r375.

The Manson Family

While most of the facts seem to point to Laurie Anderson's "Hollywood Strangler" being the "Hillside Stranglers", I did just see a short doco on the case, and many of the bodies were found outside of Hollywood, and not really near West Hollywood where she lived, which confuses matters a bit.

By the way, the whole thing with Bianchi going into hypnosis and having multiple personalities at first freaked me out. I mean, there is tape you can watch of it, but pretty soon it seemed kinda obvious he would be making that up. And I found it interesting how they fed him false information about how people with MPD behave and he immediately began to exhibit it. Fool.

R399, that's the freak with the girl in the mobile coffee stand. That's horrific, I have actually seen on some crime show the footage of her in the coffee stand as he clearly has pulled a gun on her. It's incredibly sad, and the whole making her look alive two weeks later to extort the parents, well. Humans can be so awful sometimes.

I don't get the fascination with Bundy, he's not attractive at all. But these psychopaths can never hide their crazy eyes, so I can never understand why people don't see it straight away, and especially can't understand why they find them attractive.

r389 / r403

A friend of an acquaintance knew Laurie Anderson in a casual context. (That feels like the DL-iest of all DL sentences.) Anyway, this person claimed that she was nuts and that she had a rather shaky relationship to reality. Many of her autobiographical stories, he said, were either highly embellished or outright false.

I've always been a Laurie fan and was quite disheartened to hear that -- but like everything, to be taken with a grain of salt.

Thanks for sharing R404. You know, she is a wonderful storyteller, but... what you say doesn't wholly surprise me, I'm sad to say. Sometimes I would listen to her talk and think: "Wait, this really happened?" Like her story of hiking to the north pole.

Maybe that's part of her performance art - story telling and its relation to truth and does truth matter when you tell a good story?

Still, there's a part of me that kinda wishes what she said [italic]was[/italic] true.

r405 I always wondered why she stayed with Lou Reed all those years. I assumed that he'd been sober since the 1980s, but apparently he was drinking until the end. And being abusive to anyone who happened to be in his personal orbit. It disappointed me that she enabled him and cleaned up his messes. Maybe she does have some "issues" ...

Yeah, I wondered about that too, R406. I guess most people probably think that they were in a lavender marriage together, which is possible, but who knows? I don't know how people could watch their partner abuse everyone who comes close to him and put up with it, but different strokes I guess. I'd personally be utterly embarrassed.

Still, whatever the reason, she still has some awesome music out there. I recently watched Home of the Brave and enjoyed it immensely.

r407 when I first discovered her through Big Science, I was convinced she was a lesbian. I was surprised to learn she wasn't and had (apparently) dated several men across her life.

And I think Lou was just a self-hating queen.

I thought the same thing, my friend. But yeah, dates men and I always got the impression if she were a lesbian she would've just been one.

Big Science is great! She has this way of tapping into really eerie and unsettling sounds and use of words that I find appealing. I like that story about her visiting Pohnpei and just casually throwing in that one night the local prisoners escaped and ran through the jungle, hacking people with lawn mower blades. Creepy. And, as you say, maybe not true. We'd have to ask Marina Abramović who was apparently there too.

Apologies for hijacking the thread somewhat here to others reading. I just found this topic interesting. Anyway TL;DR - Performance artist Laurie Anderson has some experiences of the time the Hillside Stranglers (maybe) were in action in LA, but it's also possibly not at all true.

Albert Fish was the worst. He brutally sexually abused children, and murdered them. He was the worst.

It's so hard to look at a lot of these pictures of people like Albert Fish. You feel like you're looking into pure evil (which you are!) and want to avert your eyes.

r409 it was a most welcome diversion, esp. in this thread!

Would Manson and the people he sent out to kill...Sharon Tate, the Folgers heiress etc..been considered actual serial killers?

Granted, the murders were horrific, but I doubt they'd be considered serial killings. Manson was trying to get revenge on IIRC, Terry Melcher, Doris Day's son, for not giving him a recording contract. There might be more to this story, but Manson & Co weren't going around randomly murdering people.

I think they're considered spree killings, r413?

Hitler