Pat Benatar vs Heart

No. Heart had better songs than Pat.

(And Ann has a better voice... and that just kills Pat).

[quote]

From 1979 to 1984, Pat KICKED Ann's legendary fat ass with hit after hit, like "Heartbreaker", "Hit Me With Your Best Shot", "Promises In The Dark", "Shadows Of The Night", "Love Is A Battlefield" and "We Belong."

In that time frame, Ann only had a hit with COVERS of "Unchained Melody" and "Tell It Like It Is" plus blips on the radio landscape with the flops "How Can I Refuse", "Allies", and "This Man Is Mine."

Pat rightfully and easily STOLE AWAY Ann's career before Capitol forced Heart to undergo a MASSIVE change in sound and style (with songs written by others, of course).

How many #1s does Pat have?

Prefer Heart. Better songs, better voice, even in their hair metal period.

Benatar left the scene for a while to have a kid. That didn't help. Heart already had a pretty big fan base and they were still young enough to have a makeover. Heart got a second career like very few acts do. Then Anne supersized herself and they pushed her out of the way.

“MARTY CALLNER: In Heart’s “Never” video, which was very successful, I featured Nancy Wilson, who had never been featured in a video before. Everybody told me how much they loved her tits in that video.

ANN WILSON: That was his niche. Marty was a princess.

NANCY WILSON: There I am, with my rack. I got relegated to the bombshell department in videos. It’s a blessing and a curse at the same time. Everybody was like, “It’s sexy! Sexy! Sex-ayyy! Sexy’s good!” Videos were instrumental in giving us a second career, after the late ’70s. I realized it had gotten completely out of hand one day when I was in a store and someone said, “I love your videos. Do you really play guitar, or is that a prop?”

ANN WILSON: When I watched them objectify Nancy, it broke my heart. When they loaded her into a harness with her guitar and shoved her off a cliff in the “Never” video, I burst into tears and had to leave the room. Each video had to outdo the last video. “Alone” was really over-the-top. Marty Callner got Nancy to ride a horse. It was a pretty obvious idea—get a woman to straddle something, with her breasts bouncing.

NANCY WILSON: It seemed like everybody else got to make cooler, more artistic videos than we did, like the Police, or the mind-blowing stuff Peter Gabriel was doing.

ANN WILSON: It hurt our feelings, and we felt jealous. The guys didn’t have pressure to be sex kittens"

Excerpt From: Craig Marks. “I Want My MTV.”

[quote](with songs written by others, of course).

Um... the majority if not all of Pat's hits were written by someone else.

“SINEAD O’CONNOR: There was a great band called Heart—I used to love this band—and they had a singer who was quite overweight, who in videos they shot only from the neck up.

MICK KLEBER: Ann Wilson’s weight was a big issue. People had this perception of what she looked like from the “Magic Man” era, when she was slender. And now that she wasn’t, each video presented a challenge. There were a lot of different tactics that were used, with technology and lighting. You didn’t have to be a genius to figure out that we were sort of hiding her in different ways.

On one shoot, David Mallet blasted a huge amount of backlight and had reflective panels sewn into the sides of her dress, so the light would blow off and create sort of an artificial waist. In other clips, they stretched the video in post-production to make her appear slimmer. As for me, I’d been in the Marines before working for Capitol, so I said, “Why don’t we just get her in shape?” Her management were insulted that I would suggest that, even though they were keeping her in full-length coats and shooting her from the neck up. They would rather spend $100,000 extra in video production costs to hide her weight instead of putting $35,000 into fitness.”

Excerpt From: Craig Marks. “I Want My MTV.” iBooks. ”

“NANCY WILSON: Jeff Stein was a really fun director to work with. He probably was not on cocaine, unlike everybody else at the time. Including us.

ANN WILSON: Of course, including us. Otherwise we never would have done some of these videos. In the ’80s, we drank a lot of champagne, we did a lot of blow, and made a bunch of videos.”

Excerpt From: Craig Marks. “I Want My MTV.”

That was a fun book, R7/R9. So much cocaine on those video sets (if anyone had any doubts).

I'm in the camp that thinks a lot of those 80s Heart songs/videos were cheesy fun, even if they deride them now.

“PAT BENATAR: I got really angry when we shot “You Better Run.” I kept thinking, What do they think I am, a runway model? Fuck you! It seemed like we were making a commercial. As a musician, it was your whole life to be edgy and underground. And here come these film people, who weren’t like us—they had little shirts with collars that buttoned down. The bad attitude I had was exactly what we needed for that song—I come across as extremely sassy and aggressive, which was perfect for the lyric and for the image I was trying to project.

NEIL “SPYDER” GIRALDO, artist: My wife, Patricia, is very photogenic. MTV was made for her—it was perfect.”

BOB GIRALDI: “Love Is a Battlefield” was about a runaway. I give Pat Benatar credit, because she was not a dancer, at all. But she almost pulled it off.

PAT BENATAR: The choreographer on “Love Is a Battlefield” was Michael Peters, who worked with Michael Jackson. And I have two left feet. That five, six, seven, eight style of dancing? Are you fucking nuts? I can’t do that. So there I was, like, “Oh good Christ, what have I gotten myself into?” I hated it so much. I was crying, and Michael Peters is like, “Come on!” I’m happy I did it, but I can’t say there was one moment when it was pleasant. When I do the song live now, I go back by the drums and do the “Battlefield” dance for like eight seconds, and the crowd goes nuts.

SINEAD O’CONNOR, artist: I thought “Love Is a Battlefield” was quite good, with the threatening gang of dancing women coming toward the camera. I also liked all of Cyndi Lauper’s stuff. She was unconventional in terms of how she looked, so it was encouraging to those of us who were young women at the time.”

Excerpt From: Craig Marks. “I Want My MTV.”

Let's not ignore the elephant in the room.

Who had the brilliant idea that Pat should play a teen runaway in the Love is a Battlefield video... when she was like 30 years old?

I hate hearing these women bitch after they rode the fame wave and made millions. Then it's suddenly beneath them.

While Heart was partying on video sets, Pat rebelled in her own way:

[quote] “Everything was torture. That tour was the only time I ever trashed a hotel room. Spyder and I were arguing, and I was screaming at him about one thing or another. We were both raging mad, and I went into the bathroom and slammed the toilet seat down, breaking it in two. I was horrified! It stopped the argument cold. It was such an out-of-character moment, but in an instant we both could see just how bad things had gotten. I’d like to think that all that tension made us rock harder, but we all could have done with a little less rock and a little more peace.”

Excerpt From: Pat Benatar. “Between a Heart and a Rock Place: A Memoir.”

Pat is a dick in real life, but still I prefer her voice. I always get Ann Wilson mixed up with Carnie Wilson.

[quote] Pat is a dick in real life

This is absolutely false. I have close friends who worked with Pat, and claim she was one of the nicest stars in 80s music.

I recently read Pat's memoir. She hated working with her label, Chrysalis Records, and had a parting of the ways with them in the late 80's/early 90's. But she needed them more then they needed her because after she left them her days of big hits were all gone.

Your friends are wrong, though I did not work with her in the 1980s. We are not all that old. By the year 2000....look out. Benatar is a dick.

[quote] BOB GIRALDI: I give Pat Benatar credit, because she was not a dancer, at all

The "Love Is a Battlefield" choreography became obsolete in 1986, when Janet blew Benatar off MTV with all her "Control" videos.

I like Pat better only because of this version

Pat and Heart were part of the early 80s and the singers like Diana Ross, ON-J, Laura Branigan, Kim Carnes, Pointer Sisters, etc who were dropped in favor of the "new singers" like Madonna, Whitney and other R&B oriented pop artists.

OMG the JanBot has to come and piss on every music thread.

Heart has seemed to stay more relevant over the last decade. Here's a duet with Carrie Underwood:

Heart for the win. Still relevant.

The girls with big range and power voices love Heart. Celine is a big fan. Benatar didn't do much good but I prefer her semi-trained voice and her very bad treatment of it and everyone around her, after the fall. Benatar was pop packaged but really a rock n roll chick. Total bitch drug freak burnt out case with a busted voice still travellin round thinking more of herself than need be. Heart were hippies with weight issues and a fake sound. The music industry is a tough tough business. No woman but Celine survived for 25 years without becoming an addict or a bitch.

I am a fan of both artists, but who is the MASSIVE idiot who keeps spreading false rumors about Benatar on this thread?

Pat has never had a drug problem (unlike the Wilson sisters). Pat has always been about the music and has been an absolute professional for decades.

Can someone please backup these accusations with FACTS? An interview, article, video showing Benatar with any rude/diva behavior?

[quote] I always get Ann Wilson mixed up with Carnie Wilson.

The only thing those two have in common is the last name and weight issues. Ann is still a great singer at 66, while Carnie has always been shitty singer.

I have no skin in this game; don't like either of them. Some thoughts:

Pat Benatar was presented, and [italic]presented herself[/italic], as a fresh, new sexy face of female rock for the early 80s. She was an artist who utilized recording and video-recording technology of the time to create that image. And she made millions doing that.

Heart was, literally, the tired, old un-sexy face of the 1970s old guard. They were fuckin' old school Rock Mamas, and that was their bag. No crime there, also no millions. But they had a devoted fan base who loved them, and loved the mythology associated with "authentic" Rock Mamas of the 1970s. So, they turned on the wind machines and tried to make some sexy videos.

Fast forward to '89 or so, and Pat B ain't so fresh or new and the 80s are over and there's a collective correction regarding 80s excess regarding the phoniness of rock, and rock videos...fucking rock videos are bullshit. Unless you're hair metal...then you are real NOW rock, because now the rock KNOWS its fake! And we'll live like this...

For never. Fuck Hair Metal, and fuck Benatar for trying to glom onto a metal history...she's a freaking video star. And rock now demands an authentic ROCK pedigree...bring me my ROCK MAMAS!

So...Benatar is like 3 or 4 cycles out of the rock mythology, and Heart managed to swing right on in at the right time. And, assholes valorize fake authenticity, so I imagine Heart will eventually accrue HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of dollars.

Pop life.

I liked BOTH Pat Benatar and Heart. Pat has my heart, but Ann did have the better voice. Big girls can sang! My playlist that I regularly listen to features: Magic Man, Barracuda, among their softened 80's sound

Heartbreaker, You Better Run, I'm Gonna Follow You, We Belong..

Ladies rule, and rock! They killed it! I'm still listening 30-40 yrs later. The auto tuned garbage of today just doesn't hold up. Throw away songs for the most part. Irrelevant as soon as they fall from the charts.

Ann Wilson has commented that she learned how to 'rock out' from Robert Plant: to let her voice take her where it needed to go. I love both Pat Benatar and Heart, but Heart delivers both Ann's amazing voice and Nancy's incomparable guitar skills (yes, forget the boobs in the videos and see a great musician).

Your entire premise is absurd, OP. Radio programming doesn't work that way.

As practiced by the major program consultants, it's both a science and an art. The process includes a variety of human research tools like focus groups, preference listening tests, in-depth analysis of ratings and listening patterns, weighting by psychographics, plus unit sales and industry 'spins' data from online streaming. These days, music is programmed by computer algorithms, tweaked by (mostly) smart people.

Blackballing, aside from that thing that once happened with the Dixie Chicks (as a lame political statement) doesn't happen. C&W is not necessarily programmed by smart people.

Tina Turner stole Pat Benatar's career, not Heart. Pat was a Grammy darling until '84, then Anna Mae came on to the scene.

Who stole Olivia's career? That was the biggest career tumble I've ever seen.

Do you remember how they stretched the screen for both Ann and Paula Abdul to make them look skinny?

In that LIAB video, the pimp would later achieve notoriety by appearing with Ann Reinking at the Oscars in the unforgettable "Against All Odds" debacle.

Olivia destroyed her own career trying to be all sexy like Madonna and people got tired to it. It didn't help that she got sperminated shortly before Soul Kiss was released and she couldn't promote it much. Her time was the easy listening folksy 70s anyway.

I don't know. this is pretty sweet though.

and this, cause we all gotta bring back the eighties sometimes.

Shake those titties Patty!

An early Pat demo.

It depends which Heart you want to compare to Pat.

70s Heart rocked like a female Led Zeppelin. 80s Heart wasn't as hard as Pat.

"Prefer Heart. Better songs, better voice, even in their hair metal period. "

Agree, R5. Even the pop/MTV period. But, I liked Pat. Though most of he songs don't hold up as well for me.

I'm a huge Heart fan yet somehow I missed this until recently. A few years ago Heart released these demos....The fucking over 35 years old demos with no auto tune or studio enhancing. I fell in love all over again. Is it sacrilege to say i love the demo of Magic Man more tan the released version?

Pat Benatar was pretty much the real thing. She said that she knew that she didn't have big tits or much of an ass , and she didn't care. The music mattered to her, not being a sex symbol.

I loved Heart's 80s renaissance. These Dreams was nice m. More pop sounding, but they were great songs

I just find Heart's second wind so interesting. It's hard to find an act that had such two distinctive phases for a career. The only other one that comes close is Olivia before and after Grease.

Pat Benatar was a hit maker up until around 1988, with "All Fired Up." I wonder if she's hurting for money, none of those big hits of hers were her composition. I think she might have co-wrote "Hell Is For Children" but I think everything else were other people. In a case like that, with no royalty money, maybe she relies on those smaller and smaller summer venue tours to survive. It's also weird that out of nowhere she gave her husband equal billing.

I like them both a lot. I saw Heart in concert about 5 years ago and Ann's voice is still incredible. Even though I grew up with their 80s hits, I find I prefer their 70s stuff now. I heard "Crazy On You" in a store the other day and was just completely caught up in the vocals and production. I also love their stripped-down, acoustic version of "Alone."

Anyone her a fan of Pat's True Love CD? I know it got panned by fans and critics a like but I love it and it's one of my favorites.

I saw Pat Benatar in concert in the early '80s because my friends wanted to see her. Wasn't my cup of tea. She struck me as someone who was striving for the dramatic just a bit too hard. Or way too hard. Her music was a more than a little inauthentic and always left me cold. Heart I never saw live but they ruled.

I also always hated how people would enthusiastically point out what an "operatic" voice she had or whatever. Technical chops, etc. That reminds me of when people get excited about special effects in a move that otherwise has no story worth a damn.

It's amazing that Ann Wilson still sounds authentically Ann Wilson despite the abuse her voice probably took over the years. Stevie Nicks, from the same period and with the same ups and downs, sounds awful. Just nothing like she did. The vibrato is gone, and the voice went down so many octaves.

I love both Heart and Pat.

I've only seen Pat in one interview and I guess that was Behind the Music. I hope it's not true that she's a jerk.

Ann and Nancy have been in tons of interviews and they seem like very nice ladies in every single interview I've seen them in.

When you say we belong to the night,

We belong to the THUNDER

DARKNESS

Diamond Field

but grandma I fell off the swing. I swear.

I loved Pat Benatar. Heart wasn't even on my radar. But Pat Benatar killed her own career. I really admired her as this hot female rocker chick. Then she did this interview where she's dressed like little miss plain Jane with no make up and no attitude. She said that she wasn't really a rocker but that management or someone or the other forced her in this rocker box . She basically said that that all her rock side was phony and that she had opera training and would prefer to do different types of songs. It ruined it for me after that because all I could think was she was unhappy and being forced to do this music. (Just like can you listen to Kesha now without thinking she's being forced to make music)

I guess Pat Benatar must have gotten over being known as a rocker chick because now modern day Pat seems to embrace it and no one brings up that old interview. But since I was a fan I always remember it. I'll still listen to her old stuff. Heart obviously were good but I feel like they might have been been along the decade before so wasn't really in my music library.

In a candid interview, Wilson sounded off on sexism in the music industry then and now, the "bubble of power" that protects predators, and why she turned to drugs and alcohol at the height of Heart's fame.

I far prefer Benatar. The Wilson twats look like poster children for WiCCA.

Pat had a FANTASTIC 5-year run before Heart had their second fantastic 5-year run. They both got massive world wide fame,millions of dollars and lifelong fans that STILL pay the bills.

Both of them proved to be apex predators in the music industry jungle but Heart had a better handle on the over the top, mid/late 80s Zeitgeist. Pat's raunchier sound and aesthetic was better suited to the early part of the decade.

And FUCK was her husband hot!

Pat CLEARLY won when it came to long term love and sexy men. Neil was a HOT piece of dick and still looks fuckable today.

Ann wound up with an ugly, psychotic troll and Nancy had to sleep with Cameron Crowe for 25 years.

Ann's a great singer; in fact I might pick her as the best vocalist of the rock era. And she still sounds great even today. As far as Heart's songs, though, I only really like their 1970s stuff.

Excuse me! Excuse me! I believe I was the pre-eminent female vocalist of that era! I would have been a huge star if Betty Buckley hadn't had me blackballed. She was jealous of my superior acting talent!

I like them both.

Sure, Heart and Benatar were both vying to be the great female rock goddesses for a while. I preferred Chrissie Hynde to both, around the same time, to be honest.

There was a classic DL quip on a thread about "Power Ballads" years ago:

"Bonnie Tyler was the queen of the Power Ballad in the 80's, until she was Totally Eclipsed by Heart."