Fame is on TCM now

I completely agree! BRILLIANT. LOVE LOVE LOVE this movie. The remake doesn't even count. Watching it now thanks to you!

Well, the first half of this movie is brilliant, the second half sort of turns melodramatic and sluggish. All the energy and fun and memorable stuff was in the first hour.

I remember seeing this in a movie theater with a bunch of my high school friends. We made fun of Irene Cara's scary tits for days afterwards. We'd be in a group and I'd start cooing "tres jolie Coco" and my buddy would start sniffing and pouting while miming lowering a bra strap off his shoulder.

Irene Cara had Hershey's Kisses for nipples.

Gene Anthony Ray - so many high points, so many low points.

[quote]Gene Anthony Ray - that body!

The best body I've EVER seen on any screen or any publication. UNREAL how fine that man was.

Wow! To this day, just WOW.

I always thought this movie was boring and overrated.

There was a remake?

I stayed up way past my Tuesday night bedtime to watch this last night. And r7, I agree--that song and end cut to black never fails to give me chills. Love it!

I guess that I am in the minority R7 - I hated that ridiculous "Body Electric" song at the end. The movie is and was really quite sweet and had something of an "edge" that you rarely see with films focusing on teens. It wasn't at all gritty like "Kids", but was a bit more real than typical high school melodrama. I agree with the above poster that it lost its way toward the end and really tanked in the last 30 minutes. Cute movie though - glad I watched it again 20 years after I first saw it.

I watch this at least once a year,and it never fails to make me want to be a teen going to their school and glorying in the arts.I loved it when it came out,I love it now.

I sing the body electric....

Yeah, an Arts school only has one gay kid.

DREADFUL movie. Show-offy and mediocre.

I thought the remake was better than the first, it had better songs. Like totally rad!

What the fuck is the "Body Electric" anyway?

I did think it was funny that Doris' younger brother never aged. If you look at the shot of him with Doris' stereotypically pushy Jewish mother, both of whom are in the audience during the final scene (the senior recital/"The Body Electric"), it is the same child actor who portrayed Doris' brother from four years earlier, except he is wearing a higher 'Jew-fro' wig.

One of my favorite movies of all time and the greatest contemporary soundtrack in history.

I use the line "Doris, we're in" all the time. It works in almost every situation

Irene Cara had the ugliest tits ever filmed.

I do believe Gene Anthony Ray died of the AIDS, very early on.

It's bittersweet to watch it now knowing that these gay kids were coming of age in NYC right at the time that the AIDS epidemic was about to explode. So many of those boys represented in the movie would have gotten sick and died in real life.

love this movie. it's one of my favorites.

r19, yes! One of my favorite characters in the film is Doris' mother played Tresa Hughes who was in dozens of NY based films in the 60s, 70s and 80s.

My bf (now husband) and I would always ask each other: Well, are we in.....or are we out? in her Brooklyn accent.

Always loved FAME. It was and remains a perfectly idealized time capsule of being young in NY in the late 1970s.

And did you catch chubby young me auditioning with the dummy in the opening sequence?

I saw the musical version of Carrie on Broadway, Leroy played the John Travolta part, and it was choreographed by Debbie Allen. Neither Leroy or Allen's choreography were very good.

R24 - I knew it! LOL I only caught that when watching it days ago. R20, he did pass from AIDS but not too early on - 2003 actually.

It is a brilliant work of art especially when compared to the dreadful TV show with its charisma challenged cast. Kael said there wasn't a moment she believed in any Alan Parker film until "Shoot the Moon" (which is pushing it a bit).

I related most to Bruno who wanted to stay in the basement and write, "no people". My career choice as well and for the same reason.

[quote]What the fuck is the "Body Electric" anyway?

It's actually one of the most famous poem by Walt Whitman. It means the existence and interconnectedness to glorify the body and soul.

Some questions critics asked:

How does Doris Finsucker get accepted at the schoo? Her audition was abysmal.

How does Leroy get admitted to the school? He's illiterate; aren't there any written tests?

How does the girl who gets kicked out of the dance program end up with a solo in the "Body Electric" number?"

Does anybody ever eat in the school cafeteria? Do the students always start singing and dancing like they're in a Broadway musical while they're in the lunch room?

Coco is tough and streetwise. So why does she immediately get taken in by a sleazy photographer who tells her to strip, which she does, tearful and whimpering?

Do students in the high school for the performing arts EVERY stop performing?

Why is Montgomery, who is portrayed as a lonely pariah, the only gay student in the high school of the performing arts? Wouldn't a school like that be teeming with gays?

To answer 3 of your questions, r29:

Arts schools, even today, don't care about academic qualifications. It's all about the talent and a perceived ability to grow.

The girl who begins The Body Electric transferred from the dance program to the voice program.

Coco's toughness is all an act.

R29, of course the dancers don't eat food, send them to the cafeteria at lunchtime and they'll dance around and make nuisances of themselves to distract themselves from the hunger pains.

R30 EXACTLY. thank you. Love this movie.

I agree OP, it does capture new York city in the late 70's, early 80's perfectly.

I adore this movie. Is it a little corny at times, sure. But it's a musical, for crying out loud, not cinema verite. And one of the best film musicals, in my opinion. I refuse to watch the remake.

What is Ms. Cara up to these days?

Lisa was KICKED OUT of the dance department and almost throws herself in front of a train -- so her graduating (though I thought from Drama department) was a nice message at the end.

Coco being that naive really is a mis-step. Growing up where she did and how, she'd have been out of there in two seconds, not reduced to tears. I would never say this about anyone else but Irene really did need breast implants. Hers were like acorns.

That Montgomery was only out guy in that school shows how far things have come. He'd have at least one real lover now. I still want his apartment with the flashing neon light outside but that only exists in movies like this.

No love for the ballet dancer who has the abortion?

The scene with Boyd Gaines at the end where he is a waiter made me howl even then, it was so phony (if he'd booked a pilot in L.A., he'd be doing great compared to most who go out there but they play him as a loser since it didn't get picked up). Boyd must work great on stage with his Tony and all but he does NOT translate to film one bit, especially that voice. His wink to Doris up front was a nice touch though.

"Dominique Finsucker" still makes me laugh. An odd reflection of the movie vs. real life: how hard did Maureen Teefy have to work to have no career after this? She seemed like a break-out star at the time.

Meh. I preferred "Camp."

I still can't for the life of me spot Meg Tilly in the dance on the street scene.

I can see how Maureen Teefy could easily fail to have a career, R35.

She was very appealing as the girl next door, but if she wanted to keep working through her teens and twenties she'd have to get a hell of a lot sexier.

Gene Anthony Ray.

[quote]I adore this movie. Is it a little corny at times, sure. But it's a musical, for crying out loud, not cinema verite. And one of the best film musicals, in my opinion. I refuse to watch the remake.

It's not a musical, Dear. It's a movie with music.

"Arts schools, even today, don't care about academic qualifications. It's all about the talent and a perceived ability to grow."

I have a hard time believing that. And even in art schools students have to read. Poor Leroy couldn't even do that. He got into that school just because he could shake his ass? Only in the movies.

'That Montgomery was only out guy in that school shows how far things have come.'

He didn't seem "out" to me. In fact, he seemed to want to keep his sexual orientation under wraps. The movie made it seem that to be gay is to be lonely and unwanted. A very homophobic notion.

[quote]The movie made it seem that to be gay is to be lonely and unwanted. A very homophobic notion.

Oh go pump that shit elsewhere. Homophobic? Please. A lot of gay people feel exactly that way.

I graduated from high school in 1988. There wasn't a single out gay in my class over over 500 students. Today, there is a gay/straight alliance club at that same school.

I attended Emerson College. Maybe 2 or 3 out gays. It had to be over 50% of the guys were gay and closeted. I totally believe that at the School of the Arts in 1980 there one only one out gay guy.

"Oh go pump that shit elsewhere. Homophobic? Please. A lot of gay people feel exactly that way."

You don't know much about how gays were portrayed in the movies, do you? At one time gays were invariably portrayed in films as desperate, unbearably lonely outcasts who hated themselves. It created a very negative image. It was surprising that image turned up in "Fame", a movie made in the eighties, but I guess some people still bought into that stereotype. Anyway, you should watch a documentary called "The Celluloid Closet." It should educate you.

My point is that the gay character feeling outcast reflected how some gay people felt and still feel. It was not meant to characterize all gays.

For most of the country, yeah, it was unheard of to be out in high school, kids of that age were rightfully afraid that if they came out they'd be disowned by their families and beaten up by their classmates.

But if ever there was a place in the US where a high school kid could come out in 1980 it'd be an arts school in NYC! You would think that more than one could find the nerve, or that that boy would know dozens of fellow students who were I-mean-duh gay, if not officially out. I agree that the movie didn't handle the issue well.

[quote]Coco's toughness is all an act.

I was going to say that. Remember when Brono's father takes Coco home? He takes her to some uptown posh apartments...but, pretended to live there.

I love the character of Shirley, the girl who auditions with Leroy and gets cut. Her mini-monologue is great.

This was *MY* audition Leroy. You lookin' at one happy lady.

That was my favorite scene, r49.

Mo Teefy would go on to co-star in Grease 2 and Supergirl--two box office flops that have turned into cult films.

[quote]I still can't for the life of me spot Meg Tilly in the dance on the street scene.

She's the one in the Dorothy Hamill haircut and royal-blue t-shirt. A lot of her moves consisted of her partner lifting her in the air.

@1:34 in the video:

I still get goosebumps from Mrs. Finsecker's "DORIS? We're IN!" to "Dogs in the Yard." I hated Evita and Mississippi Burning but Parker did a good job on this and Midnight Express.

Agreed, R53, love that song and his solo number in the empty apartment -- but another weird note was how Montgomery, in a school full of vocalists, a whole department probably, how Montgomery ended up with the tone deaf solo on "Body Electric" at the end. Though, even through the cringe, I love the number especially what it builds to throughout.

Maybe Teefy was born too soon or too late. She would've made a great Carrie White. A great Melissa on "thirtysomethihg". A great Saffron type on some "Ab Fab" show. She'd evolved into a frizzy floppy haired bohemian by the end of "Fame" so she wasn't limited to waif next door. But maybe she just gave up. I vote for a great Third Act for Maureen Teefy, please. "Come back to the 5 and Dime, Maureen Teefy, Maureen Teefy..."

P.S. I'm sure most know this but the "Fame" reissue on DVD came with a new soundtrack including at least one more Montgomery acoustic number that was cut. Sure it can be found on youtube at this point. I, for one, was very happy to see that.

Why did the fat black boy & girl get solos in The Body Electric when they didn't have parts in the movie? The girl doesn't even enunciate the words.

r55 it's on the Fame CD reissue, too. It's called Miles From Here.

R37 think about what she looked like in "The Big Chill" and its a lot easier to spot her

"Irene Cara had the ugliest tits ever filmed."

I thought so too. They looked like under cooked fried eggs with a raisin stuck in the middle of them.

Watching my DVD of it now and never noticed the stud seated next to Leroy in his first class with Anne Meara. He should've been given a lead.

And R42 is right, certainly at the start of the story: I'd forgotten Montgomery was seeing a therapist because of his problems "with women". Dear God... At least that notion gets left behind rather quickly instead of him falling for Doris or whatever.

And I get the feeling Leroy "might" have been kicked out after trashing the school and breaking vintage bookcase glass when he didn't want to read. Pauline was right, there are indeed a lot of unbelievable moments in this one. But love it anyway.

I love the way the gay guy lives in lonely misery on Times Square!

Cinematic, yes - but I've never met anyone who LIVES right there.

It's easy to pick apart, but the movie works and definitely worked at the time. A couple of years later I was in NYC at acting school - which I wouldn't have imagined, coming from England...but AIDS was taking young students from my class, so....not so dreamy after all. A nightmare, in fact.

The building Montgomery lives in is now a hotel above the Palace Theater.

In 1980 when the film was made there was only one window on the whole north side of the building (the one he is seen sitting at) I used to always look at it as a kid when we went to the city.

It sort of seemed like the buildding was deserted.

what school did you go to r63?

that is unimagineable to think how kids dying was a normal part of school, how terrible

Yeah, r63. Many of the gays from my generation died of AIDS.

r66 wow, that is tragic. Probably naïve on my part, but I never thought of gay teens dying of AIDS. I don't mean that to sound ignorant, but it never occurred to me.

RRREEEEAAAADDD!!!!

I love Hot Lunch Jam and the gorgeous Out Here On My Own

The last five minutes in the series finale are pretty exhilarating

Somebody blast the music!

Janet looked so pregnant that season.

R69,that song still brings tears to my eyes!

Mine too!

Out Here On My Own should have won Best Song over Fame at the Oscars.

Which kid do you think was most likely to have a successful career in show biz?

I always thought if was the fat boy with the synthesizer. Lots of low-budget 80's movies were scored by one guy with a synthesizer, there was a niche waiting for a kid with that talent.

Love this movie. No mention of the love between Montgomery and Ralph Garcy?

R77 I think it was one sided on Montgomerys part.

[quote]Out Here On My Own should have won Best Song over Fame at the Oscars.

"Out Here On My Own" was written by Leslie Gore and her brother Michael. Agreed it's a great song and should have won. She lost the Oscar to her brother and Dean Pitchford with "Fame". Happy I got to meet Leslie at the Broadway Cares Equity Fights AIDS Flea Market and tell her how she was robbed. She was very sweet.

Opened in just two theaters, one in LA and NY's Ziegfeld Theatre in 70MM, six track stereo sound and played weeks before opening all over the country, playing for months. In those days it was a prestigious booking. Today it would have opened on thousand s of screens and been on DVD in 90 days.

[quote] Today it would have opened on thousand s of screens and been on DVD in 90 days.

& it would be shit and the music would have stunk.

Does Ralph Garcy die in the film? He's not in The Body Electric.

Where was Monty in the TV version?

I went to a big high school where it was considered normal if 4 or 5 students died in your class.

I really wanted to see this movie as a six year old when it first came out, but wasn't allowed to because it was rated R. I saw it a couple of years later when it came out on video. I think I liked it then, but then I rewatched it a few years ago in my thirties and remember thinking it was just incredibly depressing. I get that it was attempting to be edgy and real, but it just kept piling it on. Doubt that many would have believed that Paul McCrane would have had the most staying power of everyone in the cast.

[quote]Doubt that many would have believed that Paul McCrane would have had the most staying power of everyone in the cast.

Just like Billy Crystal had the most successful career out of anyone from [italic]Soap[/italic].

Ann Meara should have been nominated too.

r83 Montgomery was featured in the first season of Fame. Played by P.R. Paul. The character was desexualized, the actor couldn't sing and the character was not as prominent on the TV show as he was in the film.

He was written out after the first season.

R88 he was actually made straight with a crush on some female dancer. It was so sad.

And one could argue that Paul Rosenberg was made less Jewish by becoming P.R. Paul. Weird times.

Fantastic movie.

[quote]Ann Meara should have been nominated too.

It's AnnE, bitch!

Sorry......

AnnE Meara should have been nominated too.

That Russian violinist who's in the final shot was apparently quite a heartbreaker on set. And Maureen Teefy was apparently quite a bitch on set which might explain her short-lived career.

The violinist who's also on the stairs playing a love theme as Doris walks past and sees her crush? Really noticed him for the first time too, a great touch by the director AND indeed a stud if he's the same one.

And interesting about Teefy. Something went very wrong if not the same thing that happened to Cara. I do remember Bruno moved on to the TV show for years and once said in an interview it was all an accident. No way he'd be one of those aspiring actors "carrying around a bunch of 8x10 headshots" ever (quote his).

To answer upthread, Ralph Garcie is seen getting his cap and gown and walking off so maybe he shined on the final ceremony and went home. It's a nice sad quiet shot of the threesome that are no longer friends.

violinist but not sure if same one as in hallway

I think Cara's career was plagued by drugs and poor management.

It's a shame because the late '70s/early '80s she was doing well (Sparkle, Roots: Next Generations, Fame, Flashdance).

I wonder sometimes what someone like Irene Cara, who were so famous and successful, do every day when they wake up now. They don't even play small clubs or whatever, they just... retreat. Does she polish her Oscar? Hope for a comeback but know it won't happen (not that it shouldn't)? I guess kids take up time for a while there but how do they just completely take themselves out of the game? Even Rick Astley was back in town here this week, playing at a smaller venue than he ever did in the 80s.

R98, a five-second google search tells us that Cara currently has a band, makes occasional appearances on reality TV, and is divorced.

Personally, I think I could enjoy the life of a has-been, as long as I'd had the sense to invest the money from my heyday. With enough money to live on I'd live modestly and quietly, make occasional public appearances when I want a little ego boost, I'd travel, have a social life, and pursue hobbies. Wouldn't you think I was cool, if I was a has-been celebrity turned wildlife photographer?

I loved Fame the TV show as a kid. It was the reason I ended up going to a high school of arts. Not sure when I finally saw the film but it was probably after I'd already watched the show for a few seasons. I remember thinking it felt very raw and realistic. which it obviously was when compared to the show.

I was bullied at school for being a girly gay boy so escaping to a high school of arts seemed like a perfect thing to do. And it actually was.

R99 sums up the saying, "Better to be a has-been....than a never-was-been."

[quote] And Maureen Teefy was apparently quite a bitch on set which might explain her short-lived career.

I noticed that in the little documentary feature they aired on TCM prior to the movie. She describes Doris as "pathetic" and sounds so angry in the interview. I felt offended!! I was like my Doris Finsecker is not pathetic!!

I'd rather be a has ran than a never been!

IIRC, a dejected Ricky said to Lucy, "How does it feel to be married to an alsobean," which Lucy clarified to Ethel (who was standing there), as "He meant a has-ran."

[quote]Doubt that many would have believed that Paul McCrane would have had the most staying power of everyone in the cast.

Of the TV series cast (aside of course from Janet Jackson), I think the most successful has been Michael Cerveris (British exchange student Ian Ware in season 6), who's enjoyed a pretty extensive career on Broadway, including winning two Tony Awards, plus lots of work in both films and TV series. Jesse Borrego has also done fairly well.

Irene Cara's tits weren't even as big as Julie Andrews'.

[quote]I wonder sometimes what someone like Irene Cara, who were so famous and successful, do every day when they wake up now. They don't even play small clubs or whatever, they just... retreat.

Not everyone in show biz yearns to be a superstar. She might be perfectly happy raising kids and working every once in awhile.

[quote]Doubt that many would have believed that Paul McCrane would have had the most staying power of everyone in the cast.

Excuse me, I was in the movie too.

In terms of cash (and fame), Isaac M. probably did better than all the other kids combined.

[quote]I noticed that in the little documentary feature they aired on TCM prior to the movie. She describes Doris as "pathetic" and sounds so angry in the interview.

She was 26 when she played Doris. I'm sure she's bitter that she put a lot into her theater training (even going to Juillard) and didn't get the career that Irene Cara or Paul McCrane or even Boyd Gaines, Isaac Mizrahi and Meg Tilly got. Plus she had to watch another actress recreate her role on tv. Then she comes to Datalounge and can't find one thread of recognition about her. She at least deserves a "Maureen Teefy as Miranda" Theatre Gossip thread title about her.

Its funny,I loved the Doris character itself,but I did find her rather blah.Even the ugly chick who got thrown out of dance class seemed more vivid,for lack of a better term. Maureen should have taken lessons from the actress who played her mother,THAT lady you still remember clearly!

When I was an 8 year old Gayling, Fame and Grease 2 were my two favorite movies; suffice to say I thought Maureen Teefy was a far bigger star than she actually was.

[quote]Its funny,I loved the Doris character itself,but I did find her rather blah

Actually, Doris is a rip-off of Louise in Gypsy. She has no self-confidence, she has a domineering mother and she's thrown into a world where everyone is self-absorbed in their greatness. We just don't get to see the second act of Doris like we get to see Louise's.

I remember reading that the studio pushed both Anne Meara and Irene Cara for Best Supporting Actress nominations.

Didn't Irene have a big feud with her record company in the mid 80's over money, which was why her career stalled? She got blacklisted in the business for a while.

I'm surprised she hasn't had some sort of comeback. She was quite versatile as an entertainer.

[quote] She might be perfectly happy raising kids and working every once in awhile.

For her kids' sake, I hope she hired a wet nurse.

[quote]Plus she had to watch another actress recreate her role on tv.

Was Teefy not offered the part in the TV series?

[quote]Irene Cara's tits weren't even as big as Julie Andrews'.

Julie had a swell pair of knockers.

No, Doris was nothing like Louise in "Gypsy", except that they started out unglamorous and with low self-esteem. Louise was pushed into show biz and even stripping my an insane stage mother, and she did a really remarkable jobs of turning lemons into lemonade. Doris is a kid from a family that's supportive, ordinary, and dull, and who wants a more interesting life.

And Doris isn't "pathetic", she has a dream and she spent her high school years making it happen, or working on making it happen. That's as much as a high school kid can do.

[quote]Of the TV series cast (aside of course from Janet Jackson), I think the most successful has been Michael Cerveris (British exchange student Ian Ware in season 6), who's enjoyed a pretty extensive career on Broadway, including winning two Tony Awards, plus lots of work in both films and TV series. Jesse Borrego has also done fairly well.

Janet is obviously the most successful FAME The Series alum, but besides Debbie Allen, Nia Peeples probably had the most success away from the show. She's released a couple of albums and has worked in tv and film since leaving the show.

Now [bold]this[/bold] is an eldergay thread I can get behind!

I LOVE this movie.

I once saw Gene Anthony Ray at Rage, a gay bar in Weho (may still be around for all I know) in the mid 1980's. He was no taller than 5'8" and extremely effeminate.

I'm in the minority in that I preferred the series to the movie. I did not see the film when it was in theaters and didn't ever get around to watching it until well after the series had been on a number of years. And though I do like the movie a lot, I still think I like the series more, mostly because I can recall just so many great episodes from the first season all the way to the last. (The fifth season, by the way, was the worst in my opinion.)

I have a friend who knew Gene Anthony Ray way back in the day before he became famous. She said he was always very talented and very gay.

Doris Finsucker was talentless! That she was accepted at all in that school was always a mystery. Unattractive, no discernible talent...how the hell did she get in?

In the tv series there's a character named "Doris Schwartz" played by Valerie Landsburg. I guess she was supposed to be a more appealing version of Doris Finsucker; she was somewhat more attractive than poor Doris Finsucker and a lot more confident and talented. The original Doris was a big loser; I thought that even after graduating from that high school she'd still be one.

Irene Cara's fried egg/acorn/raisin titties:

Doris sang Streisand at her audition...... and Doris was TERRIBLE.

Which one was Miss Mizrahi?

I was a tourist in Manhattan in August of 1979 and watched them filming the street dancing scene from [italic]Fame[/italic]. The funny thing about it that has stuck with me through the years is when the kids danced, the music they danced to was Donna Summer's "Hot Stuff". Obviously, the songs for the movie weren't ready yet and were added in postproduction. Weird bit of trivia, I know. I swear it's true.

So the carryovers from the movie were Lee Curreri (Bruno), Leroy (Gene Anthony Ray), Lydia Grant (Debbie Allen), and Albert Hague (Shorofsky). Am I forgetting anyone?

I meant from the movie to the TV series.

Michael De Lorenzo was a featured dancer in the Hot Lunch scene among others and then was on the TV series in a small role too..

Speaking of Michael De Lorenzo, he's going to be featured in that new gay miniseries "When We Rise" on ABC. Haven't seen him in literally years since "New York Undercover" went off the air.

Doris' speaking some of the lines of The Way We Were conveyed her true acting talent and it was clear the teacher she was auditioning for could see something special in her. That's why she was accepted into the school.

PAY IN SWEAT BITCHES

Fun fact: the original title for this movie was Hot Lunch. I think it was changed to Fame in post production.

[quote] Even Rick Astley was back in town here this week, playing at a smaller venue than he ever did in the 80s.

A completely random fact: Rick had a No.1 album in the UK last year.

Oh, very cool, did not know that. Love that he got another shot. Was always a fan (of his looks too).

"Doris' speaking some of the lines of The Way We Were conveyed her true acting talent and it was clear the teacher she was auditioning for could see something special in her. "

So says Doris's poor deluded mother.

The girl who did the scene from Towering Inferno got in too so compared to her Doris was great.

(that always confused me as a kid, this is the best arts school in NYC and they let the Towering Inferno girl in? )

Ever hear of "quotas," R138?

Actually, R138 brings up a good point. It's high school, especially incoming freshmen. I think the judging criterion is far lower than the average casting session in Hollywood. They can't all be slick "Sing Out, Rose" types. (I mean in real life too, not just the movie, of course).

I remember seeing the Towering Inferno girl on Jeopardy, around 10 years ago. Her name is Leslie Quickley, and she was introduced as a sous-chef. She wore her hair in a white afro. As far as I remember, she didn't win.

"Mulholland, Shirley."

I dated David De Silva a few times a number of years ago.

Irene Cara never had children. Someone earlier posted that she was happy raising her children. She has none. I did love her in ROOTS 2, I thought she was quite pretty. She made a tacky miniseries about the Jonestown massacre. She also did a pilot for a sitcom that didn't get picked up. Her voice, while pleasing, lacked depth and passion. I hope she is doing alright now. My brother boasted of having wet dreams of her. And yes, most of his girlfriends have been small busted.

Cara had a bird-like body type some guys find irresistible. Petite and small-titted. One reason why teen porn is one of the most popular genres in straight porn.

And Francesco Scavullo thought Irene was comely enough to put her in his book on beautiful women.

Aside from her somewhat horsey mouth, Cara is stunningly beautiful. I think that her breasts are quite lovely. Natural tits are NATURAL. Implants are implants. It is easy enough to throw 7K at them and make them into what you want them to look like. She was lovely, sexy and had a killer voice. There is no need to say otherwise. These days, if you want tits - you buy them, if you want an ass - you buy it, it you want flat abs - you buy it. Who cares. You need a decent face and frame to pull it off after the fact. Oh, you can buy new teeth and a new smile also. She was a looker.....period.

Cara looked emaciated in Fame. She's heavier now, so her tits are a least a very full handful now.

r147- François Lafete

R146, that picture of Irene is stunning! Wow

Isn't it r150? She is lovely.

"She was a looker.....period."

Oh, come on. She wasn't much. And the tits were ugly. As for Francesco Scavullo...well, he was such a good photographer that he make anybody look good. If he put Irene Cara in one of his books, well, that just meant that she was one of his subjects. He seemed to think everybody he photographed was beautiful.

Cara was very cute on The Electric Company. Why wasn't Giancarlo Esposito in this movie?

Or maybe r152, he could appreciate beauty in everything and everyone. That is except for you, cunt. You're ugly to the bone.

My stew is NOT blue!

R154, you are an asshole. A very ugly asshole.

I think Irene was worthy of an Oscar nomination. She was excellent in film and the audition scene still haunts me. You feel for Coco but you wonder why she goes through with it. Is she afraid he is going to rape her? Or does she think she has to go through it with because she doesn't want to be seen as weak? Or is it about doing anything for fame?

r127 thanks for sharing that story. Makes sense since the actress who plays the ballerina looks like she is dancing out of sync with the music.

he tricks her r157 by saying aren't you a professional? She had acted so sophisticated and worldly she didn't want to look unsophisticated.

Weird this incident seemed odd when the film came out but then a few years later it happened in real life to Vanessa Williams.

R29, I have a slightly different take on Coco than R30. I think that Coco was "tougher" than many of her High School of the Performing Arts classmates in several areas - but her ambitions for success and fame made her blind and vulnerable. Even someone who is generally mentally strong may have weak areas; there could be that one thing that makes us more vulnerable than we would otherwise be. You may want something so badly that this desperate longing clouds your judgment.

I do think that there may be some truth to R30's take, though - but I don't think Coco's toughness as *all* an act, just maybe 50% of an act.

R30, Performing Arts High Schools may let someone with iffy academic qualifications in, but based on at least one case that I'm familiar with - if you don't pass your classes and/or maintain a certain GPA, you will certainly get kicked out of one. I know of one former ballet dancer - a dancer who danced with the New York City Ballet for many years (principal dancer) - who was kicked out of a local performing arts high school because he failed too many academic classes, and somehow couldn't maintain a minimum GPA to remain there. Out of respect for him, I will refrain from naming him - but we are both from the same town, and I was fairly familiar with him long before he "hit it big" with the NYC Ballet. It was strange and sad that he was expelled from this locally-prestigious arts school, since it was obvious that he was a major emerging talent - but in the end, this school made no exceptions for him. After being kicked out of this arts school - he attended some "alternative" school for struggling and/or "non-traditional" students (until leaving town to attend the School of American Ballet). It is unclear if he ever got his high school diploma.

After he got into the New York City Ballet, one of his former teachers at this performing arts high school described him to the local paper as a "successful high school dropout" - the implication being that there were very few of those.

R47 - I agree. The late E. Lynn Harris mentioned that there was something of a "network" of "down-low" gay men in Fayetteville, Arkansas in the late-1970s (where he attended college). If E. Lynn Harris could somehow explore his sexuality (even if secretly) in a more "conventional" environment, and find like-minded men in the South of the 1970s - you would think that young, arts-inclined people in the performing arts world in N.Y.C. would have been in an even more encouraging environment.

R148: I was waiting for someone to note how underweight Irene Cara was in this movie. Compared to the way that she looked in "Sparkle", and the way that she looked in the years after the movie - Cara looked like she was on a Coke diet in "Fame".

O.k. - was there a hint of romantic tension between Coco and Bruno - particularly during the scene in which Coco sings "Out Here On My Own"? Was Bruno romantically infatuated with Coco - or was he simply awed by her singing talent?

It's been a long time since I've watched the movie - was there a scene in which Bruno's father kind-of kids Bruno about Coco in a romantic sense?

I think I remember wondering if some scenes were cut out of the movie in which a romance between Coco and Bruno further developed.

I don't think Lee Cuerri (Bruno) had much acting experience prior to the movie. I doubt he'd have been able to pull off a romance plot with Coco. I think they just gave him what he could do. Coco was supposedly with Leroy anyway. (the darker the berry the sweeter the juice stuff.)

I think it was a mix of Bruno being in awe of her talent and probably a crush, but also that he found his muse.

In the TV series, they collaborate on a few songs.

I thought Erica Gimpel was a great replacement.

yes I liked Erica too.

Well, I watched the "Fame" TV series (as a kid) long before I saw the movie - so, to me, Erica Gimpel *was* Coco - and that was it. Seeing the movie years later was a bit disconcerting at first - with the "different" Coco and Doris.

Neither Coco was much of a dancer, though - not in the balletic sense of a "Fame" dancer.

R164 - well, you know high-school students. Romantic statuses can be fickle and complicated. Leroy and Coco were allegedly "together" - but we saw Leroy romance the white, rich ballerina girl far more than we saw him romance Coco.

Just as Leroy was with "someone else" - I thought that Coco could potentially gravitate toward Bruno at some point in the movie.

R162 she definitely had a coke problem and that's what likely negatively affected her career.

Why coke problems affect some actors' careers negatively and not others I'll never know. I guess a combo of politics, timing, and how "difficult" someone is (which Cara supposedly was, as well.)

All the songs are great - still, 9 to 5 should have won over all of them.

Speaking of Alan Parker - those who have seen Shoot the Moon? It's a little distracting and over indulgent when the kids sing Fame in the car. Not to mention THE WALL poster...

Nine to Five did win Best Song, R169. It was nominated a year later.

no it didn't r170 they were the same year. look it up.

[quote]Irene Cara never had children. Someone earlier posted that she was happy raising her children.

The post was in response to what she is doing now....

[quote]Not everyone in show biz yearns to be a superstar. She might be perfectly happy raising kids and working every once in awhile.

MIGHT, not that she HAS children.

WTF, R11? Did you forget the child pornography scene? How can you forget Irene Cara's breasts?

Best Music, Original Song

WINNER Fame: Michael Gore (music), Dean Pitchford (lyrics) For the song "Fame"

NOMINEES

9 to 5: Dolly Parton For the song "Nine to Five"

Honeysuckle Rose: Willie Nelson For the song "On the Road Again"

Fame: Michael Gore (music), Lesley Gore (lyrics) For the song "Out Here on My Own"

The Competition: Lalo Schifrin (music), Will Jennings (lyrics) For the song "People Alone"

And of course, in a blink-and-you'll-miss-it role, DL dykon Holland Taylor as the cunty stepmother of the cunty ballerina who gets knocked up by Leroy!

Can we talk about the miscasting of pocket gay Barry Miller with his Jewfro as Puerto Rican Raul García/Ralph Garcy? He was on a streak, I guess, after playing the doomed Travolta sidekick in Saturday Night Fever before this...

Barry Miller got a Tony a few years later in Biloxi Blues on Broadway. He then was replaced in the movie by another actor (Corey Parker I think his name was)

I remember a friend of mine met Corey at a class and asked him about Miller. He wouldn't elaborate but he said something like "there;s a big story there."

I was only 2 at the time this move/series was popular, so of course I didn't witness it first hand. But, gurl, who knew Anthony Michael Hall was such a dancer! And that ass! I guess he didn'l live forever, though, right?

Barry Miller has only incredibly negative things to say about Hollywood. He seems pretty eccentric. He was good in Peggy Sue Got Married.

Four of the nominated songs could have easily won in another year. Both songs from Fame are great and Nine to Five and On the Road Again are classics.

For R135 and others confused about why certain kids get into the school . . . not every kid is talented in every discipline. The girl doing the Towering Inferno is the one singing so beautifully in the Body Electric duet. Lisa can't dance but is also shown to have an exquisite singing voice at the very end. Bruno is not shown auditioning or in class as a singer or actor but you can imagine he would not be good in either of those areas.

Regarding the Bruno/Coco relationship, in the TV series they were portrayed strictly as friends and collaborators on various songs with Coco constantly badgering Bruno to "go rogue" of sorts and help her break school rules by pursuing professional gigs. I think there was an episode in which it was hinted that Coco and Leroy were more than friends but even that wasn't pursued in any extended way. (In fact, IIRC, it may have been the episode in which Erica Gimpel guest-starred as a returning Coco after she had left the series.)

And I agree with others that Erica was an excellent Coco and I'm glad she's managed to maintain a career over the years.

IMDB lists this movie as running 2 hours 14 minutes. It's amazing how much they packed into this movie. When you think of the scope of the movie and how much it covers, it really is well paced.

r180 yes, that was the episode. It definitely intimated more of a relationship between Leroy and Coco. I guess because it was a guest star by Erica, they could just sneak that in there.

Interesting that, although Erica never became a huge star, she has worked steadily (including a stint on ER) and continued getting roles while Irene didn't.

Must admit the flat chest definitely looks better in clothes. And it is good that Irene resisted the pressure you know she must have gotten (in the silicone 80s) to do implants. That shit probably wears a lot of actresses down.

I do think they should have shown Coco trying to leave that audition (as she would), the door was locked or something far more traumatic -- and she goes back to the topless audition just to get out of there alive. Then those tears would've been solid (and maybe we wouldn't know what happened afterwards). That kind of thing has happened to so many people, in and out of the business.

For a non-actor, Lee is really good in the film, even in small moments like his connection to Coco when he is playing that piano in "Hot Lunch." He even makes it look spontaneous, not easy in a scene that potentially phony, a full production number sprouting up from the lunchroom (Parker pulls it off nicely, actually). And I forgot how cute Lee/Bruno was too. I always thought of him as chunky but he really wasn't.

I thought Lee was very good, too. I never thought of him as chunky.

They would never cast someone like him nowadays. That's why the remake was so horrible - it felt so inauthentic.

For my money Irene Cara looks gorgeous in The Body Electric finale.

Lee's on FB. My bf is a friend even though he doesn't know Lee.

[quote]Honeysuckle Rose: Willie Nelson For the song "On the Road Again"

Coincidentally, "Honeysuckle Rose" is on TCM today.

There are some fine arts schools that purposely accept an excessive number of students with the notion that they will weed out the weaker ones (once they've been more clearly revealed in classes) over the first couple of years. NYU and Carnegie Mellon use this method.

There are also schools that accept a smaller group of students and make a responsible commitment to keep them under any circumstances but the most extreme, like Yale School of Drama.

"I thought Lee was very good, too. I never thought of him as chunky."

He wasn't chunky or fat, not in the movie or the tv series. When he grew his hair long he was pretty as a girl. "Dreamy", as some swooning fans might say. But oh my God he did get fat later. It's a shame, because if he wasn't a blimp he'd probably look good. At one point he shaved his head; maybe he thought fat and bald would look better than fat with unruly black hair. He eventually grew his hair back; some say that with his mussed up black hair and some scraggly facial hair he bears an unsettling resemblance to Ron Jeremy.

[quote]There are some fine arts schools that purposely accept an excessive number of students with the notion that they will weed out the weaker ones (once they've been more clearly revealed in classes) over the first couple of years. NYU and Carnegie Mellon use this method.

Julliard also does this.

[quote]Lee's on FB. My bf is a friend even though he doesn't know Lee.

I'm on his FB friends list too. He's really cool and a total liberal. He should be in that thread about actors with mesmerizing eyes...

His only leading role in a film was in the shittastic Boy In The Plastic Bubble redux movie CRYSTAL HEART, playing the great Tawny Kitaen's love interest.

Cara really was everywhere in the 70s/80s and is an icon for it. I mean, she's an icon alone for the Oscar-winning What A Feeling from FLASHDANCE, but then there's FAME, DC CAB, SPARKLE, ROOTS... come on!

No mention of the Rocky Horror scene???!!!!

[quote]Can we talk about the miscasting of pocket gay Barry Miller with his Jewfro as Puerto Rican Raul García/Ralph Garcy? He was on a streak, I guess, after playing the doomed Travolta sidekick in Saturday Night Fever before this...

Yes, I'll talk about him. He was excellent in 'Fame'. He rose to every note & wasn't miscast at all.

I totally bought him as a Puerto Rican and I had no idea he was Jewish, either.

I always thought Barry Miller was the son of top bitch kids agent Iris Burton but there's no mention of that in the article about him. I think they were mostly estranged anyway.

Points for those out there that can recall Irene Cara's theme for "D.C. Cab" (she wasn't actually in the movie, which was awful). Sing a bar on here for me. (I loved it, though it was total "Flashdance" redux).

r195 I love D.C. Cab. I don't care what anyone says. It's such fun '80s movie. Her "What A Feelin'" album has a lot of great '80s tracks with that Moroder/Faltermeyer sound. "Why Me?", "Breakdance" and "The Dream" are such classic sounding '80s pop/dance.

r195 here is the song. Of course, now it will be in my head all day. Thanks! (I love this song).

Did they really expect Gene Anthony Ray would be believable as a street tough who happens to love to dance? Every scene he was in, you could see the flames from outer space.

[quote]Did they really expect Gene Anthony Ray would be believable as a street tough who happens to love to dance?

They needed a black boy who was an excellent dancer (more than just tap) and had some acting ability. That wasn't an easy role to fill in 1979.

Wikipedia confirms Burton was Miller's mom. Apparently she's a character in James Franco's Tommy"The Room" Wiseau movie, being played by Sharon Stone.

I'm loving this thread.

Curreri had beautiful eyes.

Back in 1982 before her first single even dropped, Madonna auditioned for the Lori Singer role in the TV series.

Her Fame TV series audition is on YouTube

Madonna also auditioned opposite Kevin Bacon for the lead girl role in Footloose in 1983, The role that went to... Lori Singer.

Footage of that audition exists but Madonna wouldn't sign for the rights to have Paramount use it as bonus material on their Footloose DVD release.

A few years back there were rumors that Madonna was very interested in buying the rights to the Fame franchise and she was either gonna direct ANOTHER new film version or produce and create a new Fame TV series.

Another little known fact about the tv series:

In Melissa Etheridge's autobiography, she recalls auditioning for a role in Fame the series and how the part came down between her and Janet Jackson. She said that Debbie Allen pulled her aside and said the role would be going to Janet, but not to worry because with her talent she'd go far anyway. I really can't picture Melissa playing the role of Cleo, but there you have it.

r203 Interesting, never knew that. Janet was wasted on Fame. She didn't make much of an impression because she was absent for many episodes (rumoured pregnancy? who knows).

But I could see Melissa on the show. Probably in a role like Carrie Hamilton's.

R200 I saw The Disaster Artist with Sharon Stone is Iris. She's hysterical in it.

[quote]But I could see Melissa on the show. Probably in a role like Carrie Hamilton's.

Definitely the Carrie H role for sure.

Janet had said she hated doing Fame and that she only did it for her father. Never mind that she was married to druggie DeBarge at the time.

[quote]They needed a black boy who was an excellent dancer (more than just tap) and had some acting ability. [bold]That wasn't an easy role to fill in 1979[/bold].

Says who? Many of the young black men who were extras in FAME negates that alone, and no doubt there were dozens of talented actor-dancers who auditioned. Ray was simply the one who evidently got the part.

As for Melissa E being one of the final two for Jackson's TV role: Melissa seems so much older than Janet that they don't even seem like cohorts.

It can't be denied that Gene Anthony Ray was hot AF is the movie version of Fame. And he acted masc enough.

[quote]Interesting, never knew that. Janet was wasted on Fame. She didn't make much of an impression because she was absent for many episodes (rumoured pregnancy? who knows).

I still say for anyone who doubted Janet was pregnant during her run on "Fame," they need only watch her final episode, the 1984-85 season finale in which Cleo is cleaning out her locker at school because she's leaving to move to California, with Jesse and Nicole there to help her revisit highlights from the season. That white shirt she has on with the belt makes it crystal clear she was with child, but others have said they don't think so, so perhaps it was just my imagination working overtime (but I don't think so).

[quote]But I could see Melissa on the show. Probably in a role like Carrie Hamilton's.

Carrie was just so awesome as Reggie, one of the best cast members of the entire series (even though she didn't enter until season five). One of my favorite eps is the one in which Reggie causes an uproar in the school because she refuses to be anything or anyone other than herself. RIP.

[quote]Many of the young black men who were extras in FAME negates that alone, and no doubt there were dozens of talented actor-dancers who auditioned. Ray was simply the one who evidently got the part.

He may not have been a great actor but Gene Anthony was great as Leroy. So glad he got the part.

I grew up loving Fame and Cara in particular and was always waiting for the latest Irene Cara news, I was so angry with my parents when they wouldn't let me see the R rated 'Certain Fury' with Irene and my other childhood fave, Tatum O'Neal. After the success of Flashdance, she sort of disappeared and I grew up. With that said, I didn't really care for the guys in the film, especially Leroy and Barry Miller's character.

Years later watching Fame as an adult I couldn't get over how sexy Gene Anthony Ray was, particularly in the audition scene. I was also very impressed by Miller's performance and was surprised that he didn't have a more successful career, he was quite sexy in a brooding, self-destructive way.

But were really supposed to believe that ANY of those actors were 14 years old, in particular Shirley his audition partner? She was 52 if she was a day! Fame's teenagers made Grease's teens seem like toddlers.

I think this is mostly projection looking back on Gene Anthony Ray after knowing he was later seen all over the gay community and his unfortunate early demise. He didn't seem queeny at all to me in the film. And he certainly knows how to give, say, the blonde ballerina a nice look of lust when he first meets up with her. Most STRAIGHT actors these days can't do that, it seems. No heat.

Madonna's audition for Fame was, in a word, terrible. She was no actress and never would be. A guy, maybe the casting director, said that after seeing her audition it was decided that if they used her she'd only be in dance scenes and she should be allowed to wear her own funky clothes. That didn't stop her; she tried for years to make it as an actress and failed. Her only two successes were "Desperately Seeking Susan", in which she played herself, and "Evita", where she played a loose, vain, narcissistic woman obsessed with power. In other words, she played herself again.

R209 I remember that and thought she was pregnant too. She looked it.

Yes, I heard the Coco character was based on what happened to Vanessa Williams.

How could it, R215? The film came out years before the VW incident.

Oh, that's right..r216.

I always thought that Bruno had a crush on Coco, but it seems that they were only best friends. I had a crush on the violin player, the man was dreamy and very distracting in the movie.

Who played the rich ballerina girl and did she ever work again? She's very funny as well as beautiful.

Wouldn't a rich girl like her have gone to a private arts school or was/is there no such thing in NYC?

Ever heard of google or IMDB R219 (or does mommy still buy your big boy underpants)?

Joanna Merlin, who played teacher Miss Berg, originated the role of Tzeitel in Fiddler on the Roof.

After Fame, she became one of NY's top casting directors, with Company, Follies, Evita and Sweeney Todd, all Harold Prince shows, to her credit.

R221 Most of those shows were BEFORE "Fame." (Unless you're referring to revivals.)

I have kind of weird Fame story. It was around 2005, and Howard Stern used to play the "Coco getting her picture taken" segment for laughs. Let's just say I was not "woke" at the time.

I was visiting an old friend of mine from high school, and his girlfriend was with us. I saw he had Fame, and I said "Put on the Coco part". The girl objected, but I was like "come on! it's great". Eventually I got him to play it.

Looking back at it though "SJW"/millennial eyes (she was was much younger), I am HORRIFIED. She must have thought I was the biggest creep on two feet. I had no idea on earth that it could be perceived as a horrible, abusive, awful thing to laugh it. I'd almost like to bring it up with her and apologize (we're Facebook friends) but maybe better to let this sleeping dog lie.

Eh, might be a good thing to write her, tell her you were inspired by this thread if you need to. I like acknowledging when I was a younger idiot., Even if they've long forgotten it, it feels redemptive somehow.

r223 don't be hard on yourself. Our experiences make us see things differently as we get older.

Interesting, though, the Coco scene and the ending of Looking for Mr. Goodbar are the two sequences that are burned into my psyche from a young age because I am devastated for these characters who you have been on a journey with only to see them in horrible circumstances. With Theresa, we know what happens; but with Coco, we don't know. We see her singing the Body Electric at the end, but already her road to fame (that is, if she even makes it) has already been tainted.

R213 Dick Tracy and A League of Their Own were also big hits that she was in

At this point it doesn't matter, Madonna, like Oprah, is rich enough that she can finance her own star vehicle for herself if she wanted to return to acting. But she doesn't

Nonetheless, it wouldn't surprise me if the rumors were true, that she wanted to buy the rights to FAME and direct a movie version, probably with her Lourdes as one of the stars

[quote]After Fame, she became one of NY's top casting directors, with Company, Follies, Evita and Sweeney Todd, all Harold Prince shows, to her credit.

She did all of those before Fame. She had the fortune of being able to cross back and forth between being a casting director and being an actress.

She's the one that told Ralph to try the drama department.

I love this movie, Irene Cara always blew me away in Fame.

[quote]Ever heard of google or IMDB [R219] (or does mommy still buy your big boy underpants)?

Oh, Miss Mary...you is so witty, gurl.

R213 also Madonna's audition was from 1982 BEFORE her first single was even released, you know damn well that if she auditioned AFTER she became huge , she would of gotten the part

But Madonna had a NO AUDITION clause after she became huge and even Martin Scorsese wanted her for the Karen role in Goodfellas, she was very much an in demand actress for awhile, whether you think she was a good actress or not.

So she most certainly "made it" as an actress, since she worked with A list actors, writers and directors and was at one time making millions of dollars per film, although she is a bad actress for the most part

Even now, Madonna's post Oscar parties held by her and her manager, are THE place for the Hollywood A list after the Oscars. It's hard to get tickets to Madonna's party.

She's also buddy buddy with Anne Hathaway and Jennifer Lawrence, you all know that if Madonna decided to get back into acting, the Hollywood elite would cast her in a heartbeat. Adam Shankman offered her the Michelle Pfeiffer role in the 2006 movie version of Hairspray but Madonna turned it down because she doesn't act anymore.

The fourth season opener was a concert by the cast. Was shot at Jones Beach, Long Island and somehow I got front row seats and got to see a young Janet up close.

r231 I love all these Fame-related stories. I notice your clip has the MuchMoreMusic logo on the lower right corner. I remember when they aired the Fame reruns. It was cool to see the Fame concerts. There is one from a previous season where Irene Cara was a special guest performer.

Mea culpa! You are all so right about Joanna Merlin's career timeline.

I do sincerely apologize. I should know better.

It's fucking awesome that you were there R231! I've always loved that special. Here's Janet doing "Going to the Chapel"...

To which song do they dance on the street?

"Fame". Bruno's dad has it blaring out of the speakers on his taxi cab.

Worst Host of the Year!

Huh? You looking for a Grammys thread, R237?

Oh, sorry! My bad.

[quote]"Fame". Bruno's dad has it blaring out of the speakers on his taxi cab.

Oh, yes..of course. Thanks, doll.

Loved all the cuts, amazing editing. And the reactions as it unfolded:

Coco: "That's me."

Bruno: "Dad, what are you doing?! It's not ready yet, it's not mixed right."

A very exhilarating scene in 1980. Why the song won the Oscar, I think. Perfect way to use your theme song and make it iconic. This was pre-MTV, remember. Just barely.

I was in high school the year FAME came out-every kid I know saw it and loved it! Everyone wanted to go to that high school!

I wanted to go too!

Did they base the Danny character in the series (played by Carlo Imperato) on the character played by Barry Miller in the movie?

By the way, IIRC, Janet credits FAME as where she first learned how to dance.

Yes.

"Everyone wanted to go to that high school!"

Yeah, it looks like all play and no work, doesn't it? But that wasn't the case. In fact, there's a scene in the movie where the instructors tell the students about all the work they'll have to do, the homework, the assignments, the projects, the reading. But of course the movie doesn't show you much of that; it's mostly students singing and dancing in what looks like a big party. I do remember one scene where Doris Finsucker and the incredibly obnoxious aspiring comedian are doing a scene together that Montgomery seems to be directing. There's a kissing scene; they get so into it that they don't stop sucking face, even when poor Montgomery prompts them that the scene is over. I thought the romance between the homely Doris and obnoxious Ralph was icky. Those two together? It was kind of gross.

What's that hokey speech Debbie Allen would give under the titles on the TV show each week? Something about how you "pay in SWEAT!", I think. Give me Anne Meara and her heartfelt "Read!" any day.

R246, in Montgomery's blinking red light apartment. With no furniture. As if.

Coco knew it was wrong to pose for the guy but she was so thirsty for fame...she couldn't help herself.

I was 18 when I saw Fame, and was horrified during the scene where Coco had to take her top off. Then, I felt relieved when they showed Coco singing beautifully at the end.

Joanna Merlin did cast Merrily We Roll Along after Fame, though. I'm surprised none of Fame's performers, like Laura Dean, didn't end up in that. Maybe she was too "polished" for Merrily.

"I still say for anyone who doubted Janet was pregnant during her run on "Fame," they need only watch her final episode"

Considering how much weight Janet has gained and lost over the years, I for one am not convinced that a tummy bulge was proof of a pregnancy! Proof of a few pizzas, maybe.

As to whether that rich-bitch ballerina would be attending a public high school of the arts... the answer is: Not if she could get into one of the good ballet schools in NYC! She's not that good a ballet dancer, even by the standards of teenagers. The big NY companies do hire kids of that age, but that girl wasn't ready to turn pro.

I always wondered what the hell that sleazy guy was getting out of that "audition".

I realize that some porn is very specialized, but is there really a market for film of skinny girls crying as they take their tops off? Or was he hoping she'd ask for work in a real porn film?

I don't think he was a real director of anything, actually. Except home jack-off material.

Janet has known how to dance since she was a child.

r254 well he asked her to put her thumb in her mouth, so I presume he was probably a kiddie porn or teenage girl porn amateur.

"Put your thumb in your mouth and cry like a little baby", I think, was more annoyed power play than fetish. It added insult to injury in poor Coco's case. I still think she would've said, "Fuck you" and stormed out.

The photographer said, "Put your thumb in your mouth, and act like a little school girl".

"You have big dreams. You want FAME. Well fame COSTS. And right where is where you start payin'. In SWEAT. I wanna see sweat. And the bettah you are, the morah SWEAT I'm going to demand. So if you neveah had to fight for anything in you life, put your gloves on and get ready for round one."- Miss Lydia Grant

R253 - as people indicated above - yes, there is a market for pre-pubescent or barely-pubescent porn. And you only need to look at some of the headlines that are out there to know that men are regularly busted for illegally fetishizing, molesting or raping pre-pubescent or "lightly-pubescent" girls (some of whom are skinny with tiny boobs).

I personally knew two young women - both of whom were reed-thin (seriously - they were stick-thin with barely-there boobs) - who told me about lascivious adult men taking a liking to them, shall we say (and these girls were 13-ish at the time). One girl would get on the phone with one of these pervs - and the perv would proceed to talk dirty to her for long periods of time. And this is just what she told me - who knows what all she was keeping to herself.

And to whoever brought up Irene Cara and breast implants - you know, simple weight-gain often goes a long way in filling your boobs out, and giving them more roundness. The "problem" (if you see it as a problem) wasn't so much that she needed implants - it was that she needed to *gain weight*. Excessive weight-loss can definitely give breasts the "sad" look that you see of Cara's in the movie.

I don't know if Cara's emaciated look in the movie was because she was trying to look like a serious, fine-boned ballet student (and the anorexic look was especially in style within the ballet world in the late '70s and throughout the '80s) - or was it just that she was tokin', and that was an unintended side-effect.

[quote]Coco knew it was wrong to pose for the guy but she was so thirsty for fame...she couldn't help herself.

So why can't we get the even thirstier Steve Grand to show us his dick?

[quote]So why can't we get the even thirstier Steve Grand to show us his dick?

You must have them rolling around in hysterics in your local gay bar.

For R252 - Antonia Franchesci who played Hilary van Doren, the ballerina, was a dancer in the NYC Ballet for 11 years. She was hand picked by George Balanchine and learned she'd been selected by the company on the day Fane premiered in 1980.

Thanks, r264. I wasn't so much looking for her name (which would mean nothing and could easily be googled), as much as just a little info on her background.

I come to DL looking for some fun and engaging dialogue. There's lots of info here that could be googled but I always enjoy the repartee of the smarter and more generous posters.

Fuck you, r220.

What happened to the actor who played Montgomery? I know he was on ER for a while as that asshole doctor who lost his hand.

"What happened to the actor who played Montgomery? I know he was on ER for a while as that asshole doctor who lost his hand."

Paul McCrane is a character actor. He was in "Robocop"and "The Shawshank Redemption." He's done a lot of television. He won an Emmy for Guest Actor in a Drama Series for his performance in the tv series "Harry's Law." And he was on "ER" for a time, playing a thankless role as a "bad guy." ER became more and more ridiculous over time; poor MCrane's character first got his arm cut off in a helicopter accident, then got squashed like a bug by one. It was SO stupid.

I like the girl who says "Excuse me" when she gets bumped into.

Laughed at that, R268. So random and so true! She seemed like a nice girl.

Lots of the real "Fame school" students were cast as extras in the movie and some got their SAG cards that way.

who bumps into her? I can't believe I don't remember her. I know the movie by heart.

Doris bumped into her. I believe that it was when she was headed to the cafeteria just prior to HOT LUNCH JAM.

Irene Cara had what is known as tubular breasts. This is what I learn from watching that plastic surgery show on E!

Leave Irene alone!! She was pretty.

She got all her credit cards stolen but daddy doesn't want to report it because the thief is spending less than she did.

IF they were to redo FAME today, would Lens Dunham get cast as a student, or faculty? Would she be Coco?

Anyone remember FAME LA? It was on in 1997 and only lasted a season but I really liked it, mostly for hottie Christian Kane as a student with dysfunctional brother issues...

Christian singing

Are we supposed to think that Ralph's little sister was sexually assaulted by that drug dealer? It was left very vague.

[quote]IF they were to redo FAME today

It would have to be completely rethought. As gritty as Fame is, there's still an innocence about it. Doris' mother comes off in the film as comically sweet. But the Doris' mother of today would be an entirely different character and would set a different tone.

And I'm sure there would be some huge backlash about white Anne Meara forcing black Leroy to try and read.

Also, in the film and the first season of the tv show, the dancing was kept fairly much "theater dancing" a combination of ballet, tap, jazz. Where the tv show went off the rails in later seasons was that everyone was break dancing and I'm sure today they would all be hip hopping. There was a certain innocence about not including specific modern-isms into the show. They didn't try to oversaturate the viewer with things they had already seen a hundred times.

Today the show would be an avalanche of social justice warriors, political correctness, and everyone would be six-packed and/or emaciated but maybe one fat girl who would play social justice warrior fat girl.

In other words, it would be "Glee".

I'm bumping this thread because I have a question. I rewatched the movie because of this thread.

Were some of the street scenes real or were they all staged? On the first day of class, freshman year, Montgomery walks by a john and a prostitute having a fight. The john smacks her and knocks her glasses off. It looks too real to be staged. Does anyone know about this?

Pretty sure they'd need a release to show those faces were it not real. It is a rather large impressive street scene though with a lot of extras. But I think every movie controls those things. Why you see pixilated faces on reality TV sometimes; they didn't want to sign a release for whatever reason.

(Hope that is not confusing. They would need the release if someone was in the shot that wasn't a paid extra -- who also sign release forms).

Today there would be no "Hot Lunch" musical scene. Everyone would be at their tables, silent staring at their phones.

Of course the hooker scene was staged for the movie. That doesn't mean it wasn't true to the spirit in NYC in the late 70's.

[quote]That doesn't mean it wasn't true to the spirit in NYC in the late 70's.

Oh, I definitely believe it was true to time and place. It just looked too real to be rehearsed. There are a few moments in the movie that don't seem as realistic, but the streets scenes were very well done.

Irene gets a bad rap she doesn't really deserve. In the 80's, shortly after her "What A Feelin'"(WAF) album, she became aware that royalties were being withheld. Though the WAF album came out on Geffen, she was signed to a small Warner Bros-related label, Network (or Netwerk). Her royalties--her paycheck--was being seriously consumed by Network. So she sued as she was due those paychecks. This meant suing music giant Al Coury and, as witness, David Geffen and execs with Geffen Records. You don't piss off David Geffen and, for whatever reason, her plea to help her turned him against her. Shortly thereafter, she was blacklisted in the industry. (About this time rumors went wild that she had a coke habit--which she denies--and that she was difficult to work with--which co-workers claim is not true at all.) You'll note when she vanished, she vanished. She wasn't one of those pop stars that had a string of hits and then had a gradual fade via a string of unsuccessful albums no one bought. One day she was a hit, the next she was done. While the court case went on, she did record one last album, Carasmatic, which was released on Elektra in 86 or 87. It was pulled off shelves the week or week after release. Not put in the discount bins like albums normally were, but pulled and sent back to the record company. Somehow, Elektra--a Warner-affiliated label--gave the order to pull the album back. And that was the last US release by Cara on a major label. No more movie roles of note or TV appearances for ages. (She won the lawsuit but lost her US career in the bargain.) A few years back, she financed a new album and released it on her own label. But no major US label touched her again and she doesn't even have a greatest hits CD in the US, despite numerous acts with fewer--and less memorable--hits having at least one greatest hits album. For several decades, both the Netwerk and the Geffen album weren't even available in the US; they were imported on a Canadian label with no affiliation to Warner Brothers. I believe two of her three 80's albums are now available on iTunes and the like, as is her self-financed album she released a few years back with her all-female band, Hot Caramel.

Thanks, r288.

I've always been suspicious about Irene's decline. She was hot for a number of years in both film and music. It was odd that by the time Carasmatic came out in '87, she was - as you said - done.

r288? Paragraphs? It's really not that hard. Just hit the enter button twice. It's only six to eight extra keystrokes.

Not being an asshole, R290? Takes even fewer keystrokes.

R288 is obviously an Irene Cara fangurl, going on and on about how the poor dear was "blacklisted." Who gives a fuck?

I care, R292. I was and still am a huge fan of Irene's. Even back in the not yet connected like today 80's,her disappearance was total. No one,not even shitty daytime shows,would touch her it seemed. Its obvious now she was blacklisted,thoroughly and completely. Only a Trump fan could deny the evidence thats plainly in their face.

."Only a Trump fan could deny the evidence thats plainly in their face."

What the fuck does Donald Trump have to do with Irene Cara? You are obviously insane.

I do remember many grumbles when she got song credit AND her ultimate Oscar for "What A Feeling" when she had only changed or contributed the line "In a world made of steel, made of stone..." Remember that? She definitely had a diva rep then.

Cara definitely looks anorexic in the boob pic. You can see her entire chest plate. Probably why they look weird.

"I sing the body electric! I celebrate the me yet to come. I toast to my own reunion when I become one with the sun!"

Love It!!! The characters and their stories, the music, the grittiness and the 70's New York baby!

Inspired by the Irene Cara thread, bumping this thread.

I love this film.

FAME COSTS!!