Celebration of women filmmakers triggers heated debate among Salma Hayek, Jessica Williams and Shirley MacLaine

It doesn't matter what your core identity is when society will behave in another way. When you're gay, a woman, black, Mexican, whatever, what you think of yourself will determine your fortitude, but it will not change the way the entertainment industry perceives you when everything is based on the surface. Salma Hayek should know that better than anyone, but maybe she's forgotten after marrying the billionaire?

Ugh, Salma Hayek is as repulsive as Susan Sarandon, thinking she can preach to a black woman and try to dismiss and deny what she experiences. Fuck her.

Identity politics is eating itself.

I wonder what the next stage will be.

R3

No kidding. Telling people to grow up and quit playing victim is now a punishable offense on the Left.

How about if you tell us about your hate for Hillary Clinton and the Dems? Perhaps you can revisit some of your hate filled posts from the election times, let us know how you really feel about the Dems stealing the nomination and that "cunt" (you preferred name for Clinton).

Perhaps you can revisit some of your other threads:

[quote]Is Bernie Sanders Unstoppable?

[quote]Unless he croaks, he's running in 2020. It's his time. He's Hillary 2.0. Anyone that runs is just running for VP. Can he win though? Sanders and Biden Lead 2020 Race with Warren Coming in Third

[quote]2020: A look into the crystal ball

[quote]When Democrats and independents were offered some possible 2020 Democratic presidential contenders, Sen. Bernie Sanders (44 percent) and Vice President Joe Biden generated the most excitement (43 percent), with Sen. Elizabeth Warren favored by 34 percent of voters. However, most voters would like to see “someone new” (66 percent). Another Hillary Clinton run would excite 23 percent of voters, while 15 percent were indifferent to a Clinton candidacy, and 62 percent said she shouldn’t run.

Why are you hiding behind these bs film threads which you create on daily basis (they are profoundly boring, by the way).

C'mon, go back to your true Clinton/Dem hating you.

So the 27 year old who wanted to discuss being black and female shut down when given an opportunity to actually discuss herself? Salma asked her for eye contact and she refused.

Hayek may very well have blindspots regarding her own privilege, but neither she nor MacLaine are wrong for asking these younger folks to stop being victims and speak up for themselves.

The whole conversation seems very self-indulgent and doesn't make a lot of sense.

This midget needs to be more concerned with her husbands wandering dick and her pet tigers that keep dying under her care.

Yes, racists love to talk about 'identity politics' except when it comes to racists like Trump playing on the fears of white people and using THEIR 'identity politics' to win the White House. It's only 'identity politics' when minorities speak out against racism. YOU grow up R3 and R4.

I think Hayek is making an important point which I interpret this way: don't wallow in the experience of being unprivileged because doing so poses a substantial risk of failure. Have faith that your artistic gift is something more and that you can show it to all the naysayers and bigots. The truth is that unprivileged people have had success in Hollywood and they didn't do it by saying "I'm black, woman, and/or transgender." They did by saying, "I've got a good story to tell."

[quote]Hayek may very well have blindspots regarding her own privilege, but neither she nor MacLaine are wrong for asking these younger folks to stop being victims and speak up for themselves.

The younger folks aren't BEING victims, they have genuine concerns about racism but it's easy for those who are privileged to just brush it off as victimization. Williams shut down because she could see they were all unwilling to really hear what she was saying or be empathetic.

[QUOTE]They did by saying, "I've got a good story to tell."

And many have said exactly that and had the door slammed in their face because of who they were. Don't try to pretend that Hollywood is totally unbiased.

Hayek has pet tigers?

"They did by saying, "I've got a good story to tell."

And, yet, it's mostly white men who get to tell a story.

Exactly R15.

....She called her a whore....she actually called her a WHORE.

R15 White men who came from wealthy enough backgrounds that allowed them to go to the right schools, make the right connections, and then live on peanuts for years while they made it to the upper ranks. That's economic privilege, not racial.

[quote] The whole conversation seems very self-indulgent and doesn't make a lot of sense.

Welcome to the world of navel-gazing progressives.

Yet their wealth and socio-economic privilege are directly tied to their race r18.

W&W r11

Victims never win, they just wallow in their misery and blame "society".

R20

You don't think Jayden Smith will try to be an "auteur"?

Get Miss MacLaine her creme brulee!!!!

Sure he will r22 (it's Jaden). But you surely aren't comparing him to the vast majority of struggling writers/actors/performers who are POC. None of whom had Will Smith for a dad and have his level of privilege from birth. The vast majority (like 99.9%).

"Victims never win, they just wallow in their misery and blame "society"

You mean like the way men whine the minute they don't get preferential treatment.

"Victims never win, they just wallow in their misery and blame "society"

Or they sit up all night til 3 AM and tweet out about how everyone is against them and make up lies about everything the say and do

R1 how others perceive you does not define who you are though. If you let them define you, you are letting them win.

I'm working on a TV show Angie Tribeca that stars Rashida Jones the daughter of Quincy Jones. I didn't know much about her so I looked her up. She went to Harvard. Friends of hers that went to Harvard became writers in Hollywood on shows like the Office. Rashida did a stint on The Office and got a regular part on Parks and Rec. Rashida's sister works for Disney. Rashida and her writing partner Will are writing the next installment of Toy Story. Rashida seems nice enough and obviously has some talent, enough talent to make a mark in the game. However, if Rashida didn't have connections she may have never had the opportunity to do any of these things. She has had family members, friends, relatives of friends etc. appear on Angie Tribeca. Opportunities at this point (and they always have to a certain degree) go to those who are connected to the rich and powerful. The rich and powerful are shaping the stories that get told, what is expressed and the dialogues we get to have. I'm not sure that Salma and Shirley understand this. Some ordinary person is not going to have a voice when it's the privileged who have lost touch setting narratives with their magical thinking of just believe in yourself, wish on that star or some other fucking bullshit.

The very least they could do is make a fucking attempt to recognize their privilege. Salma or Shirley bucking the system from their position and some random female trying to buck the system from HER position are NOT equal.

R20 Errrr than how are Oprah and Kanye West rich?

The only "privilege" on this planet is economic. Wealthy black celebs lecturing poor whites about white privilege is the funniest irony that left extremists don't seem to comprehend.

*then

Thanks Shirley McC/r27.

Not r1 but I think he/she wasn't talking about others/outsiders defining them, from an internal POV. It's the external definition, by those in a huge amount of power. The entertainment industry, liberal as it seems to be, is one of the worst in terms of lower opportunities for women, POC and LGBT. There are people trying to change that or at least get a conversation going about it.

"Intersectionality", "white privilege", "identity politics" ....you do realize these are just made up theories with NO basis in fact, reason, logic, demonstrable truth or SCEINCE. It's all based on feeling, perception, subjectivite experience, anectdote and in more and more cases....PARANOIA.

I wish to fuck these third wave feminists, gender,queer and ethnic studies theorists and activists would UNDERDSTAND they are more like religious fanatics basing their entire worldview on faith and delusion....just like the fundamentalist Xtians they hate.

And much like these other religious freaks they're always banging on about how PERSECUTED and OPPRESSED they are. And the more "oppressed " a group deems itself to be the more power they think they're entitled to. They don't want equality..............they want REVENGE.

You're using Oprah and KANYE as examples of proof there's no racial inequality ??

For the vast majority of POC (again, 99.999% - Oprah and Kanye aside) economic inequality is intrinsically tied to and wrapped up with race. POC now and historically have lower asset levels, earnings and income, less access to higher education at many levels, less access to decent healthcare, etc. Lower than their white counterparts - that includes poorer or lower income whites.

Im not sure why you keep invoking very rare instances of super-wealthy black celebs as examples that counter the reality described. Like because Oprah exists, there's no racial inequality. Everyone's on a level playing field.

[quote]She went to Harvard. Friends of hers that went to Harvard became writers in Hollywood on shows like the Office.

The well-educated get good jobs. Imagine that!

[quote]"Intersectionality", "white privilege", "identity politics" ....you do realize these are just made up theories with NO basis in fact, reason, logic, demonstrable truth or SCEINCE. It's all based on feeling, perception, subjectivite experience, anectdote and in more and more cases....PARANOIA.

I'm not all supportive of all intersectionality theories or ideas myself and welcome health debate, but you surely aren't saying there aren't thousands of demographic reports regarding the privileges afforded white straight males in our western society. DEMOGRAPHICS, as in the scientific, statistical data relating to the population/s we live in. STATISTICS are not subjective - not sure what you're referring to here? Of course subjective feelings and anecdotal evidence aren't a solely rational basis for argument (although not fully discountable either).

[quote]And much like these other religious freaks they're always banging on about how PERSECUTED and OPPRESSED they are. And the more "oppressed " a group deems itself to be the more power they think they're entitled to. They don't want equality..............they want REVENGE.

Well I'm out of here on that final thought., You must be pretty angry (subjectively, feelings and all - not discountable mind you!) to think all commenters on topics of economic concerns including existing inequalities are only motivated by revenge. That's silly and you know it.

R2, no one is preaching. Hayek just didn't agree with her. Plain and simple. Y must everyone agree with one persons opinion. I happen to agree with Hayek. I am a "person of color" just not black. I don't agree with affirmative action or "forcing" people to hire those of a certain color. To me, that patronizing and condescending and I won't be anyone's charity case. There was a discussion on a diff thread about a PR agency's photo and most of the employees were white. A black person responded that they should hire more people of color ( overlooking that there were two Asians in the photo). The black person got all offended bc I said "start your own agency." Complaining is just a victim mentality. I choose not to be a victim. That was Hayek point. The other woman said "you don't understand." To a point, she is correct. I don't understand a victim mentality. Yes you may have it hard but you'll never truly succeed if you constantly need a handout.

It's an entertainment industry. First and foremost. You can educate but you must also entertain. All Hayek is saying is that you will NEVER succeed unless you entertain and pointing to victimhood (and yes, those women were saying they are victims) without ALSO offering something entertaining is a recipe for failure in Hollywood. Don't want to play that game? Try academic radical film circles. It's just a practical point. There ARE successful POCs in Hollywood -- in front and behind the cameras, and there are more all the time. Sorry, in Hollywood, EVERYONE has to be charming, interesting, beautiful, or funny. Hayek's question was perfect: who are you other than a POC? are you just POC or are you a beautiful, charming, funny, interesting artist/producer/director/actor, etc who is ALSO POC woman. Like it or not, if you mention POC discrimination more than a single time, you'll obscure your humor, charm, beauty, or interest. Furthermore, funny, charming, beautify, and interesting POC in Hollywood will also shrug, nod, and move on. Don't like it -- make radical angry films and videos and post them on youtube.

R33's circular thinking is amusing. It's obvious he is at least middle class because he's clearly unable to understand that there are many poor white people who do not benefit from privilege, to whom his inane ramblings don't apply.

r34 you do realize that you have to be able to afford that kind of education right? And having the pedigree isn't always the point. George W went to Yale and he's an idiot. It's the connections you make in those institutions that help whether you are actually intelligent, talented or not. That was my point, the connections.

One problem with the SJW intersectional rhetoric that I get exposed to on youtube -- which is probably the dumbest out there, admittedly -- is that it always seems hopeless, fatalistic, and irresponsible. Individual POC success is a fluke and accident or if not a fluke or accidental, necessarily extraordinarily heroic and unusual. POC failure is inevitable and consequence of white supremacy. No system is total. I agree that social outcomes are stochastic but loosely so, and there is no guarantee of any social outcome. It's a question of likelihood not, as the SJW intersection youtube crowd suggest, inevitability. A key practical question for all of us -- not just POC -- is how do I beat the odds? The women at the luncheon never seemed to willing to ask the question. Not once. That omission is what makes them seem like "victims."

Also, any striver in Hollywood needs to know their most immediate audience, and their most immediate audience isn't the ticket buying public. Nope, it's the people in "Hollywood." A striver needs to pitch him or herself to that audience, and make that audience believe he or she is funny, beautiful, interesting, or charming. Job number one. That's what Hayek was trying to remind the POC women.

I think every person at that table was privileged and the exchange was pointless. I understand why Jessica Willliams was offended by Salma Hayek telling her to suck it up. But she was lucky to be at that table. Their attention would have been better directed to helping people who are genuinely aggrieved.

For example, think about the plight of the Iraqis who put their lives on the line for the US troops and now can't get into the US, although they were undoubtedly promised they could immigrate to the US. Those people get my sympathy, not anyone at that table.

Good for Salma for putting that SJW in her place. I still remember how that black lives matter activist treated Hillary during the youtube meeting.

Talk about ignorant and disrespectful.

R14,r18, & r28 are all10000% correct. And as far as telling stories by writers of colour, oh my aching sides! ie: there are almost none. White, straight, WASP women are considered "diverse" or fulfill a quota in Hollywood.

I don't think either Selma Hayek or Jessica Williams were at fault. They were having a discussion. It seems pretty clear that Williams has something to express that she felt she wasn't able to vocalize clearly at that time. It was perfectly fine for Hayek to say what she was thinking. They're both smart successful women with common goals. Something new is taking shape most likely and it will be really interesting when this younger generation of women are ready and able to express what it is they have to say. There was no enmity there. It was a civil discussion. I adore Williams and don't think she has been given nearly enough credit for her talent. She is half Hayek's age.

Fuck this celebration of women gathering. Has Shirl commented on the deaths of Debbie & Carrie?

Hahaha! Shirl! The people have spoken.

R27, that's beside the point. How others perceive you dictates how many times you're pulled over by a cop, strip searched at the airport, given a call back for a job, and the list goes on. You're too gay, too black, too "other". When you are a black woman in America you will ALWAYS be looked at for those two qualities before anyone is willing to go further. Don't be naive.

How about how Cat Cora kept popping out of the kitchen to say women just need to support women and that will fix everything?

Jessica's point is not that she wants to be a victim but that POC have a very different experience than white people. You can't bootstrap your way out of being black.

That might be the crux of the issue right there. Hayek asking Williams who she is when she isn't a woman and isn't black may not have been a relevant question to her. Williams career is based in a large part of her identity because she is a comedienne who writes her own content. From what I understand the other women don't really perform in that way. The subject of most of her material is about her being a black woman. Her comedy is hilarious, relatable, and fresh. You definitely don't need to be black or a woman to enjoy it. Asking her to move beyond that right now might not be relevant to her or her career. But who knows what Williams had intended to say. I think she'll answer through her work when she's ready. When it comes to 'Women in Film' I'm a little confused about that being eradicated. As in "who are you when you're not a woman?" and then "who are you when you're not a woman of color?". I would think unspoken viewpoints that haven't been so mainstream would be the point. Viewpoints that may at least in some way come from being in touch with who you are. I would think there would be interest and something new there.

It's a condescending question. Who is Salma when she's not airing her tits on screen? To assume these other women or specifically Williams doesn't have hobbies and interests that are relevant to who she is, is ignorant.

I don't think the question is about hobbies.

Amazed Hayek gets invited to these things. Her "career" is so undistinguished.

Find the democracy inside!

R13, not 14. My bad.

[Quote] It's a condescending question. Who is Salma when she's not airing her tits on screen?

Ouch

[quote]Under the cavernous, vaulted ceiling of a mountain mansion, where the driveway was heated, an indoor stream trickled and a string of faux llamas stood guard on the stone staircase, Woodard sipped a spoonful of vegan cream of vegetable soup served by celebrity chef Cat Cora. Nearby, Marti Noxon, one of the creators of the Lifetime series "Unr​eal," talked about her feature film debut, “To the Bone,” which would sell the next day to Netflix for a reported $8 million.

How can these poor women ever escape the shackles of their oppression? Such brave victims.

[quote]But it was clear to all that despite the moments of palpable discomfort, an important discussion had just occurred.

*snort*

I am tired of hearing from women of color.

R53, it was an example. As in, what drives you and defines you outside of your identity as Christian, Muslim, black, white, man, woman. That would include hobbies and interests as in writing, visual art, philosophy, etc.

R59 - that suggests you are small-minded

Pic of the dinner. 99% white women. Hilarious.

OMG is that Lea Thompson??