I want to start reading a great Sci Fi or Fantasy book series

The Art of the Deal

Time to Get Tough

How to Get Rich

The best indicator of a great book is when it uses only one-syllable words.

Try the "Dying Earth" series by Jack Vance.

The Space Odyssey series by Arthur C. Clarke.

R1 LOL Definitely not fiction based on any kind of science!

Fantasy genre - The Belgariad Series by David Eddings.

Fantasy: "The Chronicles of Amber" series by Roger Zelazny.

Science Fiction: "Known Space" series by Larry Niven

Dune

Wheel of Time - Robert Jordan (and completed by Brandon Sanderson after Jordan's death)

The original Foundation Trilogy - Asimov

The Culture books - Iain Banks

The Majipoor series - Robert Silverberg

The Incarnations of Immortality - Piers Anthony

The original 7 books of the Witch World novels - Andre Norton

The Kingkiller Chronicles - Patrick Rothfuss

Black Company - Glen Cook

Riftwar saga - Raymond Feist

Is't Ready Player One supposed to be excellent?

[quote] Is't Ready Player One supposed to be excellent?

[quote]I want to start reading a great Sci Fi or Fantasy book series

It's not a series.

Yes, it is excellent if you remember the 1980s and the cultural references to old time video arcade games, movies, and such.

Love the Miles Vorkosigan/Barrayar space opera series by Lois MacMaster Bujold.

Various volumes have won and /or been nominated for Hugos and Nebulas. That kind of award-winning pedigree certainly gives them cred -

But to me they're just the most wonderful, character-driven tales with a very ctedible universe, roller-coaster plots and great wit and charm. I love them and re-read periodically - especially when I'm down. A great tonic!

The bulk of the stories are about Miles Vorkosigan, the scion of a noble house on a human-settled planet that's come out of a great time of isolation and is a bit of a backwater. One of the things they value is physical strength and they abhor the thought of mutation (they have issues!) - and unfortunately, due to as assassination attempt on his parents while he was in the womb - Miles falls somewhat short of Barrayaran standards of physical perfection.

However: the lad has a mind like a steel trap. And he puts it to good use. While everyone else tries to keep up with him...

Recommend starting with the first to feature Miles as a young adult - THE WARRIOR'S APPRENTICE. He's seventeen in this one - and he's aged to his mid forties or so by the most recent volumes. (I don't think the Baen Books jackets do them justice - but that's possibly just me. Try and ignore and focus on what's between the covers!).

Hope you love them as much as me - and many of my friends! - do OP! :)

The Expanse. A very good and current tv series is based on this book series.

Ender's Game, if your'e into coming-of-age stories.

"Brave New World", by Aldous Huxley.

"Nineteen Eighty-Four", by George Orwell

"The Handmaid's Tale", by Margaret Atwood.

Anything by Isaac Asimov.

Anything by Stanisław Lem, including "Solaris", and adventures concerning Ijon Tichy.

According to lore, there's a book by Lem about of Ijon Tichy, wherein one chapter was omitted from print in the U.S., and another omitted (censored) in the Soviet Union / Eastern Bloc. Conversely, the chapter omitted in one country, was printed in the other.

"The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", by Douglas Adams

* ...a book by Lem about Ijon Tichy

#tired

Try Hillarys book. Total sci fi Bullshit.

The same is often said for you r15.

OP, start with Jules Verne. Then Asimov, Heinlein, Clarke.

"Frankenstein", by Mary Shelley.

Or, start with some of the other excellent suggestions her.

The Death Gate Saga by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman

Basically anything by Terry Pratchett whose discworld series has 40+ novels in it

More Jack Vance: Demon Princes series, Cadwal Chronicles, Alastor series. Vance = the best stylist in SF/fantasy. And I second Silverberg's Majipoor series.

You can't go wrong reading [italic]anything[/italic] by the late Octavia Butler. However, since you said you wanted a Sci Fi series of books, her bestselling "Lilith's Brood" series is an excellent trilogy. The books are "Dawn," "Adulthood Rites, and "Imago." Octavia was a master storyteller, and her works will transport you to a different world.

Sorry, "The Death Gate Cycle"

Francis, the only way to get better scifi is for you to write it. Duh.

More about the late, great Octavia Butler in this link. As a black woman who grew up during segregation, the ability to talk about sub-populations which are marginalized by dominant populations is in her DNA. As a geeky, gay teenager who loved science fiction, I could readily identify with her themes of being a stranger behind enemy lines, and how that fear of persecution also allows one to see the flaws of the ruling group in completely cutting and honest ways (it also helped that she often explores gender and sexuality too). Her books always had that element to them, i.e. groups coexisting with other often hostile groups, but holding out hope for future integrations that surpass everything that went before. As such, she is actually an optimist, but one whose feet are firmly rooted on the ground and one who does not flinch in exposing the dark sides of every group of humans...or aliens. What I really like about her is that telling a damn good story is her priority. She doesn't knock you over the head with any political agenda; rather, she lets you see the inequities and double standards on your own as the plots unfurl. Really good stuff.

Another vote for Silverberg's Majipoor series. Truly a rich, fascinating world.

Pullman: His Dark Materials

CS Friedman has some great works, both science fiction and fantasy. Some stuff is single-volume, some are series. I started with "In Conquest Born" which has a great space opera feeling and intriguing characters.

Tanya Huff is prolific and light-reading stuff, but can be a fun read if you don't want to get too bogged down in highly detailed plot. Plus, she has a ton of gay characters.

The Discworld series by the late Terry Pratchett! Also give C.J. Cherryh and Anne McCaffrey a go. Read Aldous Huxley's Island for his vision of utopian society. As I recall, he considered it his crowning achievement in fiction.

P.S. I didn't see R20 and the rec for Pratchett. Consider it a second vote for him along with the others I mentioned.

As others have mentioned:

The Culture Series by Iain M Banks. Start with the Player of Games. As an aside, his non SF book The Wasp Factory is good, really fucked up, but good.

The Chronicles of Amber by Roger Zelazny. It's more fantasy than SF. All 10 books are in one volume. The 1st 5 are classics, the last 5 are good.

The Dying Earth series by Jack Vance. Pretty much anything by Vance. The Lyonesse trilogy is great, but more fantasy that SF.

The Archonate series by Matt Hughes. His style is somewhat like Jack Vance's. Start with the 3 Henghis Hapthorn books.

Oop, there's a 4th Henghis Hapthorn book, Nine Tales of Henghis Hapthorn, that should be read before the other 3.

The original Earthsea trilogy.

Don't read the later sequels--they're very talky and didactic and just not as good.

R27 has already mentioned HIS DARK MATERIALS by Philip Pullman: The Golden Compass / The Subtle Knife / The Amber Spyglass

maybe George RR Martin: Game of thrones

no series, but anything from Philip K Dick, for instance : Do androids dream of electric sheeps (better known as Blade Runner)

Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell is an amazing blend of history and fantasy. It's supposed to be a series, but so far no second book. Still recommend it highly.

Also the Madadam series by Margaret Atwood, starts with Oryx and Crake.

I second the rec for Dune, great book.

Thanks for this thread op, I love this genre!

Agreed, R35! Many of the recommendations given so far have been put on my "To Read" list. There is so much badly-done science fiction that it's nice to learn about works that have been created by well-regarded authors.

metal boxes is cute in a "have space will travel" king way. 4 volumes of retro classic sci/fi.

late daniels series is an excellent take on the urban paranormal genre. the premise of her world is totally unique, and the vampires couldn't be any creepier.

Susan Cooper's The Dark Is Rising Sequence defined my childhood. I found it when I was 10 or 11, and then read it once a year until I was in my 20s. It might be too childish for adults who've never read it, though. I can still say it's my favorite YA fantasy series.

Robin Hobb's Farseer trilogy. Probably my favorite fantasy series. She should've stopped with the first trilogy but she ended up writing more. I have enjoyed other novels in the series as well, although I haven't read them all, but the original was so fresh and with characters I loved, that I can never forget it.

Iain M. Banks' Culture series is gorgeous, and my favorite sci-fi series. I admit I haven't read all of the novels, though.

World War Z

Not a series, but a great read.

The book is 100x better & different than the movie.

The only things they share are a title & that the central theme is zombies.

World War Z is a great read. And the Earthsea trilogy is indeed excellent.

Stephen King's Dark Tower series is not strictly science fiction, but it has some parallel universe and other sci-fi elements and it's really good.

Another enthusiastic vote for Iain M. Banks' "Culture" series, starting with "The Player of Games."

Octavia Butler's "Lilith's Brood."

The more sci-fi genre books by Kurt Vonnegut, like "Slaughterhouse Five" and "The Sirens of Titan."

Michael Faber's "Under the Skin."

And, of course, J.R.R. Tolkien's "The Lord of the Rings."

Memory, Sorrow and Thorn by Tad Williams. A lot of fantasy writers claim to have been inspired by this, and you can see it the influence in Martin, Rothfuss, and others.

Rothfuss: The Kingkiller Chronicles, but beware: it's not finished yet, so if you don't like having to wait an indefinite period of time between installments, put it off until he finishes the third volume.

Anathem, by Neal Stephenson.

Tigana, by Guy Gavriel Kay. Very good, and a satisfying stand-alone novel.

For a bit of fun I would recommend the early books in Keith Laumer's "Retief" series about an intergalactic diplomat and his dealings with various aliens, with a recurring enemy alien race the Groaci, all played out in a Cold War style backgroung. Laumer had a stroke some years after writing the series, and the later books aren't quite as funny.

Another humorous series is Poul Anderson & Gordon Dickson's "Hoka" novels. In a similar vein is H. Beam Piper's "Little Fuzzy". Another picaresque set of stories, humorous also, is Jack Vance's "Galactic Effectuator", Miro Hetzel, a sort-of private inquiry agent.

Believe it or not the True Blood (Charlene Harris, I believe) series of books are fantastic. Nothing like the series -- better in my opinion.

OP, [italic]Monday Starts on Saturday[/italic] by Andrei and Boris Strugatsky is a Soviet SF/Fantasy work recently reprinted. I've heard it is excellent.

Yeah the Sookie Stackhouse novels aren't too bad. I haven't read all of them, but of the ones I did read, they certainly make the titular character much more tolerable, but Lafayette's story has a very different trajectory and I didn't love that.

The Darkover series of novels by Marion Zimmer Bradley. They're Sci Fi but have elements of fantasy too. I found them quite transporting. There are some characters in them that have same sex relationships which is considered perfectly normal.

Of course, Tolkien is the granddaddy of all fantasy fiction. And everyone else has been copying him ever since. (Before Tolkien, fantasy/sci-fi books were fewer and far less extensively imagined, not to mention much shorter!)

In addition, however, there are some other fantasy/sci-fi works I recommend:

When Worlds Collide/After Worlds Collide - Balmer and Philip Wylie Originally published in the 1930's, it was about preparations for surviving the destruction of Earth by another planet, then subsequent life on a second planet by survivors. Amazingly detailed and imaginative, especially for the time, the first part was made into an OK movie in the early 50's.

Isaac Asimov's Foundation Trilogy - wonderful books about history in the far future, Asimov even invented a term, "psychohistory," describing the effort to predict historical trends. Intentionally episodic, it's full of interesting characters and surprising plot twists. Written in the early 50's, Asimov later wrote 4 additional novels, also including details from his Robot novels, which are good, though without the impact of the original trilogy.

Jack Finney's Time and Again - marvelous book about the possibility of time travel, as well as learning to inhabit everyday life in another time. (Finney is also the author of the original novel, Invasion of the Body Snatchers.) Finney later wrote a sequel, which, predictably, is not as good.

Talbot Mundy (1879-1940), in addition to writing about 30 books, mostly Kiplingesque Anglo-Indian interactions, also wrote about 10 books that have all kinds of fantasy elements, often including occult details about monks in mysterious lamaseries in Tibet. Om: the Secret of Ahbor Valley, The Nine Unknown, Black Light, and Full Moon are only a few. Definitely have a cult following, and a lot of Mundy's works have been reprinted, and are readily available on Amazon.

Charlaine Harris has several series besides [italic]True Blood[/italic] that are interesting. The new one, [italic]Midnight Texas[/italic], is good and is going to be a TV series in April.

The [italic]Anita Blake, Vampire Hunter[/italic] series by Laurell K. Hamilton is good, too. There are 25 books in that series and a couple of short stories.

For lighter, fun reading, I really enjoy the Harry Dresden series by Jim Butcher. The first couple in the series are the weakest ones but they aren't actually bad at all and after that the series is great. A wizard in this modern world, vampires of various sorts, fairies and all kinds of 'monsters'. It's funny but not low brow.

I know it's not a series, but read anything of Ursula Le Guin you can get your hands on. The Dispossessed is great political commentary in the tradition of Brave New World, and the Left Hand of Darkness will make you question everything you ever thought you knew about sex.

I'd add A Lathe of Heaven to your list, R51.

All of Iain M Banks books are very good - a good place to start is Against A Dark Background, while not a Culture book is an extremely fun romp with great ideas...

Loving Hugh Howey's "Silo" books: So far have read Wool and am currently reading Shift. I love sci-fi, and these are the best I've read in a while.

More votes for the works of Terry Pratchett, Octavia Butler, Ursula Le Guin, Frank Herbert, Philip Pullman and Iain Banks. I also loved the Young Wizards series by Diane Duane- the covers market the books as something similar to Harry Potter but these books are much more sophisticated, with realistic characters, some very heart-wrenching emotional scenes alternating with clever humor, and an extraordinarily detailed and well-thought-out mixture of hard science and magic. Also the side characters include a stable adult gay couple that is mentioned in a discreet yet surprisingly direct manner for books first published in the 1980s.

Mary Doria Russell wrote a really good science fiction duology: The Sparrow and its sequel Children of God- emotionally moving, well-written, philosophically complex, with at least one gay character who is well-developed despite his relatively minor role.

Nina Kiriki Hoffman is a very diverse and unique writer whose works are sometimes hard to find- her style is kind of quirky and offbeat, but very original and imaginative- she writes across genres from fantasy to science fiction to horror and although the plots are sometimes weak, the settings, characters and ideas are all very vivid and stand out from most other books- she definitely puts a different and refreshing spin on everything she writes.

I enjoyed T.A. Pratt's Marla Mason books- a couple of the lead characters are gay, there's a lot of witty one-liners and genre-savvy fourth wall breaking, and a lot of colorful, imaginative characters and ideas. The books all have a sort of comic-book-ish, over-the-top, larger-than-life air to them.

I just read Mishell Baker's book Borderline- standard urban fantasy setting but the main strengths are in the writing and characters- you don't often see a realistic depiction of a character struggling to recover from mental illness in a fantasy novel-the best qualities of the book come from the main character's unique perspective on life- you don't always like her but she has some admirable qualities and can be very insightful.

Ted Chiang has some really excellent short story collections- thought-provoking and cerebral but also possessing emotional depth. The movie "Arrival" is based on one of his short stories called Story of Your Life and Others.

China Mieville is a talented writer who tries hard to avoid the standard cliches of fantasy and science fiction- I particularly loved Perdido Street Station and The Scar. He is wonderfully imaginative and experiments with different styles and genres in each of his books but can sometimes get preachy when including political commentary in his fiction.

The Fever series by Karen Marie Moning is my favorite.

I also like the Black Dagger Brotherhood series by JR Ward.

The Beggars Trilogy by Nancy Kress was excellent. Peter Watts is another good writer who includes a lot of fascinating concepts from cutting-edge scientific research in clever ways- he is a biologist and knows what he's talking about. Charlie Jane Anders's new book All The Birds In The Sky was an interesting mix of SF and fantasy which also had some clever one-liners and an offbeat mix of whimsical humor and big philosophical ideas.

Uprooted by Naomi Novik was a very pleasurable read- not necessarily the best writing ever, sometimes cliched, but it managed to stay compelling the whole way through. Too Like The Lightning by Ada Palmer is very complex science fiction, difficult to follow, requiring a few rereads to really understand what's going on, but very intellectually stimulating.

The Nightrunner fantasy series by Lynn Flewelling features gay and bi people. I listened to the first two novels as audiobooks years ago and if I remember correctly the two main characters were gay (or bi) men. Unfortunately the audiobook narration was very uninspiring which made the reading slightly annoying.

R6 - I can't believe there is another person on here that like the Amber series. I read this in high school and just loved it.

So, OP, what have you decided on?

Foundation

How about Game of Thrones?

In addition to all the excellent suggestions above, I'd recommend the Imperial Radch series by Ann Leckie.

Justin Cronin's Passage Trilogy. Not sure if I would classify these books as sci-fi, horror, or some other type of speculative fiction -- starts with a plague in the present day, and ends 900 years in the future. The novels are long, but they're a worthwhile read.

Another vote for the P. Pullman "His Dark Materials," and George RR Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire (the series Game of Thrones is based upon). Warning: The Martin series isn't finished and to be honest, I haven't enjoyed a book as much as these books since I first read them in 2013. On the up side, they get better with repeated readings. For example, a scene where a group of celebrants is fed two dudes baked into a pie by a gleeful, vengeful lord totally went over my head the first time around. The prose isn't gorgeous, but the character development and detail is. Some people don't like reading about the food served and the conversations - I do.

I warily recommend The Kingkiller Chronicle by Patrick Rothfuss, with a few caveats. First of all, I read the first two books (the third is not yet out) before reading Martin, and didn't appreciate how much he ripped him off ("Kingkiller" is so weak compared to GRRM's stunning, multifaceted"Kingslayer," but I digress!). Also, Rothfuss writes like a fussy old lady which is sometimes comforting and sometimes annoying. In real life , he's an SJW who's apparently so busy trying to convince the internet that he's NOT SEXIST that he hasn't gotten around to writing the third book. Finally, if you DO try this series, I strongly the audiobook. The narrator is very good. I'm pretty sure I would've hated the main character were it not for this narrator's voice.

By FAR my favorite is the Red Rising trilogy by Pierce Brown. A MUST read. The first book took me a bit to get used to the "lingo" but I stuck with it and the series blew me away.

Also read The Chaos Walking trilogy by Patrick Ness.

I'm currently reading the Vorsokign books and the first one was good but there are moments when I'm really bored.

I can't disagree with r66 more--I'll take Rothfuss over Martin any day of the week. You might not like his writing, but at least Rothfuss GETS TO THE POINT. Ice and Fire became, for me, intolerable with the last volume--hundreds and hundreds of pages devoted to minor characters in that series, and not in a way that's particularly cumulative. It can be impossible to remember what happened after a while, and if you read them as they came out (as I did), remembering what happened to small characters buried in an 800 page book read years before isn't just irritating, but doesn't even pay off. I started off loving it, but am just so over Martin now. The last season of the show was actually better constructed than any of the source material.

But that's what makes horse races. Continue to enjoy, r66--it sounds like there will be many, many more pages for you to appreciate (if he EVER finishes!).

Thanks, R68! I like all those detours he took with A Dance With Dragons. I hope he really is writing the next one!

I'll read (listen to) the Rothfuss book if/when it comes out, and I'm sure I'll enjoy much of it!

Gobble Hoof by Ian Rankin

Percy Jackson by Rick Riorden.

"We" by Evgenii Zamyatin

Can't believe nobody mentioned tC. J. Cherryh's novels.

The easiest entry into her works might be the Chanur novels. An Earth exploration ship discovers the first alien civilizations encountered by humans. The ship is destroyed by a treacherous race with the sole survivor rescued by another alien race. The stories are told primarily from the point of view of this latter species.

[quote] Set in Cherryh's Alliance-Union universe, but in a different region of space inhabited by numerous alien spacefaring civilizations, the Chanur novels are unusually realistic examples of space opera, with ship-to-ship shooting minimized in favor of coercion, manipulation, politics, pride contests, and clashing economic interests, driven in many cases by species-to-species miscommunication and misunderstanding.

ps - CJ said she suggested the title "The Kif Strike Back" as a joke, and was appalled when the publisher went with it.

The Malazan Book Of the Fallen - They're written by Steven Erikson and Ian C Esselmont, though on separate books for the series. You'll need a little patience to get through initially and understand the world-building and the crazy amount of characters. But once through that curve, I was completely hooked. I guess you could classify it as Mil-Fantasy.

"Old Man's War" by John Scalzi. Total of six books in the series.

"The Expanse" by James A Corey. Now a really good sci-fi series on SyFy (the books are so much better than the show, too)... six books and I think five novellas?

No fantasy bookshelf is complete without at least a few volumes of the Discworld series by Terry Pratchett. My faves are Witches Abroad, Hogfather, Unseen Academicals, Maskerade, and Reaper Man.

I'll confess that the Dark Materials trilogy left me quite cold. Cold as Svalbard.

Did anyone read Lois Lowry's The Giver quartet? The first three of these dystopian stories are very loosely connected, but the fourth ties them all together.

Grindingly grim at times, and written with relatively simple straightforward prose, the books have dueling moods of desperation and hope.

If you know Lowry's personal history, the final book is rather heartbreaking.

"Susan Cooper's The Dark Is Rising Sequence defined my childhood. I found it when I was 10 or 11, and then read it once a year until I was in my 20s. It might be too childish for adults who've never read it, though. I can still say it's my favorite YA fantasy series."

I've never met another DIR fan, r38. I couldn't stomach the awful movie, but I still re-read the books every few years.

I have a question for anyone here who has read "The Name of the Wind" by Patrick Rothfuss.

I'm 415 pages in and was startled by the book's first depiction of overtly gay characters. It is the scene wherein Kvothe (the 15-year old male protagonist) is frantically searching the pub / performance hall for a woman who, from the audience, sang along with him while he was competing onstage. The two gay characters, who Kvothe initially mistakes as possibly women, try to seduce him before he runs away.

Excerpt from the scene: He eyed me up and down. "You're a fair one. Would you like to join us for a drink?" [...] he said easily, touching my arm. "Come have a drink. I promise to keep Thria here from trying to take you home. He has a terrible weakness for musicians." He smiled charmingly at me.

I've been searching Rothfuss' (extensive) blog and found a post where he shared, with pics, dressing up as "Gay Dumbledore" for a Halloween party. His girlfriend dressed up as Harry Potter because, he writes, "It really wouldn't have been a funny costume if I hadn't been able to chase her around the party all night, groping shamelessly."

Am I overreacting here? Being too quick to yell "Straight Privilege!" and missing out on a great fantasy series by an author who actually supports LGBT people? Or does Rothfuss only think we exist only as predators for 15-year old wizardry students?

And yes, yes... I know this is DL, so most of you are gonna just write back that yes we are just sexual predators. But no one asked you, Bryan Singer.

[quote]I want to start reading a great Sci Fi or Fantasy book series

Any book by Hillary Clinton should do the trick.

OP I would recommend you check out Jean M Auel Earth's children series. An amazingly gifted author in the fantasy genre.

That wasn't funny the first time around, r80.

The Three-Body Problem trilogy by Liu Cixin.

A bestseller for a reason. Worth considering

The Powder Mage Trilogy by Brian McClellan

I'm an atheist but I still love the Chronicles of Narnia.

Ben Aaronovitch's Rivers of London series. An original and funny take on paranormal detection in modern day London.

Cypulchre and Archetypal by Joseph MacKinnon. Bladerunner-esquire cyberpunk.

Anything by William Gibson, Philip K Dick and Samuel R Delaney ( thought he latter can be a little challenging...but well worth the effort ).

The Purge of Babylon series by Sam Sisavath - vampire like creatures swarm the earth. An unusual take on this kind of tale and with excellent characterisation. Focuses more on the humans and their interactions while the horror mostly places out as background.

The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant by Stephen R Donaldson.

Would agree with a previous post about the Dune series, but only the first four books. Very deep, very philosophical. In fact, the quote that I live my life by comes from the first Dune book, “The mystery of life isn't a problem to solve, but a reality to experience.”

R79, I noticed that, too (the two young flirtatious gays at the music theatre). The reason it didn't bother me is that you will find, if you continue reading that NO ONE, male or female can resist Kvothe. He is just THAT charismatic. I read handsome (thin), articulate, musically talented Kvothe as wish fulfillment for Patrick Rothfuss (see photo below and you'll see what I mean). This is not a guy who ever had to fend off advances, be they from from women or men, until the book money started rolling in. So, I get that need for his avatar to be irresistible to all. Wait until the second book - you'll get a really clear example of what I mean!

Its worth mentioning that the two well-built, middle-aged men who run the theatre (I think it's called the Aeolian?) are either gay or bisexual, but are a couple. Kvothe is a bit surprised to hear this but doesn't make a big deal about it. So, there's that.

I compared Rothfuss unfavorably upthread to George RR Martin and I'm gonna do it again here. You won't get the subtlety in Rothfuss you get in Martin: Unlike in the show Game of Thrones, Renly and Loras's relationship was handled with less spectacle, as was the "Frey pie" episode. Unless you were paying close attention, you might have missed, as I did, that the two Freys were in fact killed and baked into a pie! That's part of what makes Martin so good.

Another example is Brynden "Blackfish" Tully. A close reader will deduce that the character is gay, but Martin doesn't make a big deal about other than to note that the Blackfish's refusal to enter a sham marriage resulted in a long rift with his brother and lord, Hoster Tully (Father to Catelyn Stark).

The Blackfish and Loras are gay, but are noted for their fame as fighters.

Martin deftly weaves aspect character traits into a narrative. Rothfuss is not nearly as skilled and his single main character, Kvothe, is far less memorable than many of Martin's "side players," such as Beric Dondarrion, Olenna Tyrell, Areo Hotah, Jorah Mormont or Jojen Reed. But, I digress!

I recommend you finish the first book and read the second, if only because there are some nicely written parts.

Ooops! Forgot my link!

R88 Agree with you about Dune. The books get deeper and deeper. By the fifth it starts getting harder and harder to follow as it becomes increasingly about the innermost parts of the writers psyche

I'm a little surprised the Foundation and Robot series don't figure as often here. Nothing more extraordinary to me than how the two series gradually and eventually became one at the end.

the Prydain Chronicles by Lloyd Alexander

Harry Potter séries.

I can't wait for the twelfth book! I'm still not sure whether Harry likes women or fags, We'll see, I guess.

Thanks, R89, for the advice. A couple of my other friends agreed with you that I should keep reading and see where the book goes.

R79 / R94 Glad to help! Hope you enjoy the rest of the book, and come back when you're done!

The Keep was a betyer book than movie. Although a young Scott Glenn was hot.

R96, I bet he was.

Suggest Elizabeth Lynn's Chronicles of Tornor. Series of 3 texts: first two have implicit and then overt gay characters. Third text features two lesbian characters and one featured gay character. Writing and plotting is high quality; the links among the three texts are well-drawn and the final moment of all three texts is stunning. Author rarely wrote again.

A more recent fantasy series by Brian Staveley - Chronicle of the Unhewn Throne . Very enjoyable reading

It's been a while since I posted here, but I thought I'd give an update. I'm happy to have a back and forth and share more thoughts on these books if anyone else has read them and/or cares at all.

I finished Rothfuss' "The Name of the Wind" as suggested. It was truly a chore. I even started Book Two ("The Wise Man's Fear"), hoping it would correct the problems I had with Book One. I gave up around the 100-page mark. The books are tedious and repetitive, with practically no plot, no momentum, no progress... an endless cycle of the same small scenes retold over and over again, like playing the same side quest in a video game over and over. I feel like each book is 800+ pages of text with 150 pages of content. These books get a strong thumbs down from me, sadly.

Then I picked up Brandon Sanderson's "The Way of Kings," another massive fantasy tome at 1,200+ pages. (Why do these books need to be so damn long?) The first 60 pages were a confusing and intimidating introduction to (at least) four characters. Through a Prelude, and then a Prologue (that takes place 4,500 years later), and then the first two "proper" chapters, I was left wondering who I was supposed to be following. After 195 pages, he gives more stand-alone chapters (called Interludes) where we meet at least two new characters, and have the character from the Prologue finally return--who had been absent for the last 150+ pages--for just one chapter.

Basically, what I'm getting at is that I wish I had known the organizational approach the book would use before I got into it: It's all point-of-view chapters, with some characters disappearing for hundreds of pages at a time, and other characters getting only a single chapter in the 1,250-page book. You gotta stick with it and trust that Sanderson will tie it all together... eventually.

Overall, the world building is excellent, although a little grim. Really quite dark and depressing, actually. (This didn't feel like a great candidate for escapist fantasy.) Some characters are great, with Kaladin being my clear favorite, and Shallan not too far behind. The book never really felt like it was dragging, although I wouldn't have protested if it was trimmed by a hundred pages or so. Good action, interesting Magic, well-defined characters (even the supporting ones). I've already ordered Book Two ("Words of Radiance") and look forward to digging in.

Third, I read Lynn Flewelling's "Luck In the Shadows," Book One of the Nightrunner series. A gay friend had recommended this to me over a year ago, but I was put off by the atrociously cheesy cover art. Shallow, I know. But it's so fucking cheesy.

The book was great. Good world building, two very interesting main characters, and lots of exciting adventure (something almost completely missing in Rothfuss' Book One and light in Sanderson's). Apparently the two main characters (both men) fall in love at some point in the series, so it's kinda cool to see some gay (or perhaps bi) primary characters in a fantasy series. It was an easier read than the others, but that's not a mark against it. I've ordered Book Two of this series, as well.

Finally, I started Glen Cook's "The Black Company" last night. I'm only about 30 pages in so far, but I feel totally lost... like I missed a whole lot before the book started, as if there was a Book Zero before Book One. I guess what I'm saying is that you're just thrown into the middle and don't really know anything about the world, the characters, the Black Company, the lore... anything at all. I'll stick with it, though; it's a short book, only a couple hundred pages. Fingers crossed that things start to make sense and get less disjointed.

Dean Koontz - Watchers

Agree w r83 that's my next read.

I'm just starting the last book of the Prydain series, r92. It's very good.

And I recommend the Red-Blue-Green Mars trilogy as well.

Some great choices here.

An update for the (zero) people still interested in this thread:

Sanderson's "Words of Radiance" was at least as good as the first book in the series ("The Way of Kings"), maybe even better. If you're looking for multiple 1,200-page fantasy books, this series is certainly one to check out. I picked up book three (just released) and am looking forward to diving in as soon as I stop using it as a doorstop. The thing is fucking huge.

Flewelling's "Stalking Darkness" (book two of the Nightrunner series) continued the exciting adventures of Seregil and Alec, during which they fall in love. This book seemed to have higher stakes (in terms of good versus evil) than the first. I love the characters in this series. Definitely recommended to those who enjoyed book one ("Luck In the Shadows").

The third book in the series, "Traitor's Moon," however, was a disappointment. The longest of the three, the book goes all-in on unpronounceable and easily mixed-up character names and seemingly endless pages of confusing politics. Pacing was poor and the plot plodded along. The sense of adventure was entirely replaced by an over-wrought Sherlock Holmes-esque political mystery. Sadly, I found very little of the book interesting or entertaining.

After two attempts to get into Cook's "The Black Company," I have put the book aside. Unsavory characters. Too dark. Not what I'm looking for right now.

I started Sanderson's "Mistborn" last night. It's good so far (only 40 pages in) despite some thematic tropes that mirror his Stormlight series (a lower class of people, basically slaves, who must submit to the whim of a class of tyrannical wealthy elite). The book has clean prose, interesting characters, neat world (slightly post-apocalyptic), and hints of a cool Magic system.

What has everyone else been reading?

For Sci fi: Dune or Foundation

For Fantasy: Mists of Avalon

Mary Stewart's Arthurian Saga. Three book series. The Crystal Cave, The Hollow Hills and The Last Enchantment. Impossible to put down and so well written. I became briefly obsessed with these books.

Neil Gaiman's "Sandman" graphic novel series is terrific and it comes with pictures!

If you like dragons and can appreciate ‘70s/80s fromage, may I recommend Anne McCaffrey’s PERN novels (1967-2012) which were my life in middle-school.

With almost 30 novels as well as supporting apocryphal stories the chronology can be tricky or intimidating in the way STAR WARS is, but don’t let that put you off. You can dive in with any book and get to know the world of Pern fairly easily, as the prose is clear & simple.

I myself prefer the original six novels published in the ‘70s; I believe you can pick up the 1984 Harper Hall publication of the trilogy DRAGONSINGER, DRAGONSONG & DRAGONDRUMS for next to nothing online.

I would recommend Stephen R Donaldson very highly. His fantasy series The Chronicles of Thomas Convenant (including the Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, and the Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant) are fantastic. Deeply plotted, and richly imaginative. His sci-fi series, The Gap Cycle, is lovely based on Wagner's Ring Cycle, and is incredible as well. They will also expand your vocabulary a great deal.

I enjoyed George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire up to the point where I stopped reading it when Robert Jordan died. George is futzing around and not getting the series completed, and I felt burned by Jordan's death. I will go back and read the entire series once he finishes it. I will watch the series then too. I refuse to watch it until the books are completed.

Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time is very good, but very long. It rambles a bit in the middle, but comes back together in the last four books, and Brandon Sanderson did a great job finishing it. I keep meaning to check out Sanderson's series.

Hugh Howie's Silo Series are very good, and would recommend those as well.

Margaret Atwood's MaddAddam Trilogy (Oryx and Crake, The Year of the Flood, and Maddaddam) are terrific speculative fiction, and of course The Handmaid's Tale is fantastic as a stand-alone novel

The Belgariad/The Mallorean by David Eddings is a good lighter read

Those are a few off the top of my head

A couple of options, that are all fun and interesting reads:

John Scalzi's "Old Man's War" series. Starts with "Old Man's War" of course, but then continues on for a bunch more books.

Peter F. Hamilton's Commonwealth series. It's majorly epic, but you can start out with a rather self-contained 2-book series, "Pandora's Star" and "Judas Unchained". If you like those, there are more series in that same Universe... The Reality Dysfunction trilogy, and the Dreaming Void trilogy.

It's ancient by now, but I always liked Greg Bear's "Forge of Gods" and "Anvil of Stars", another self-contained two book series.

Robin Hobb is one of the best fantasy writers of the past 20 years.

Name the book "TRIBES"!!!

And then it will be a parody of grindr tribes. For example, the bear will have some bear-ish supernatural abilities, and so on.

Oh nvm. I thought you were WRITING.

R110 concur. THE LIVESHIP TRADERS trilogy is incredible, especially the first book ‘Ship of Destiny’. Every volume is thousands of pages long so enough to sink one’s teeth into over some weeks and enjoy the ride.

I can’t think of a fantasy I’ve read with fuller female characters; socialite Malta Vestrit in particular is the epitome of ‘character development’ and her aunt Althea is Anne Bonny only better. There are also plenty of scheming society women for gay-interest.

The magic in these books is credible & enticing, complementing the larger overarching slave-trade plot and raising big questions. It’s a little bit Sinbad, a little bit Pirates of the Caribbean and a little bit El Dorado blended with some Austen & Swift.

Also, strapping pirate captains. Brashen Tell is basically created for the Datalounge.

George R. R. Martin is popular, but A Song of Ice and Fire (the Game of Thrones series) are INSANELY padded, and the plotting moves like glacier formation. His prose is clunky at best. and I would argue that the series only uses the trappings of fantasy -- he's more interested in war and politics than in the fantastic. The dragons in Le Guin's Earthsea books are DRAGONS. Martin's are just air support.

I stopped reading Orson Scott Card when I found out he's a homophobic toolbag.

I agree with R108; Donaldson's a gifted writer. A warning, though: His science fiction series The Gap Cycle is very dark -- at least, I found it dark. He also wrote a shorter, lighter fantasy pair of novels called Mordant's Need; I loved them. Not quite as wordy as the Covenant books, and worth a look.

I'd recommend Patrick Rothfuss (The Name of the Wind) over George R. R. Martin -- a much better stylist, though his series is taking a pretty long time to be written, as well.

Another vote for Incarnations of Immortality though they go downhill as the books go on.

Dean Koontz's Odd Thomas series is another good one. The Dragonlance and Star of the Guardian books by Margaret Weis were some of my favorites in high school but I haven't read them recently so not sure if they hold up.

I'm kind of digging the Expanse books. They're long, but the plot moves quickly.

Gene Wolfe's four-book series, "The Book of the New Sun," is a classic termed by one critic the greatest work of fantasy/science fiction of the 20th Century. Not sure about that, but . . . I'd never heard of it before stumbling across one of those employee recommendation write-up cards in a big literary bookstore in my city, and went through it like a buzz saw. He meant it as one work, but it's in four books, "Shadow of the Torturer," "The Claw of the Conciliator," "The Sword of the Lictor," and, "The Citadel of the Autarch."

OK, true, the female characters fall into the roles of aristocratic lady, dancing girl, and prostitute. But it truly is a great literary work, loaded with layer on layer of literary, religious, anthropological, scientific allusion. Dark, heartbreaking, and beautiful, with a haunting after-effect that stays with you for a long while.

The late Ursula LeGuin?

For a fun, quick read, check out Dennis Taylor's "Bobiverse" Trilogy:

- We Are Legion (We Are Bob)

- We Are Many

- All These Worlds

R119, her Earthsea Trilogy has been mentioned here a few times already.

The Last Herald-Mage Trilogy by Mercedes Lackey. Features a gay protagonist.

The Blade Itself and First Law series by Joe Abercrombie. A more savage version of GoT

Love the Amber series

Ricardo Pinto, The Stone Dance of the Chameleon trilogy. Also features a gay protagonist, but is actually a very good series.

There's also the three books in Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast cycle, "Titus Groan," "Gormenghast," and "Titus Alone." A darkly grotesque fantasy saga with illustrations by the author.

TITUS ALONE is my favorite ‘difficult’ book and the GORMENGHAST books are the greatest gothic fantasy ever written, in my opinion. Tolkien pales in comparison to the labyrinthine, meaty prose of Peake.

Anyone who hasn’t read any Peake certainly should, and for those who have enjoyed reading GORMENGHAST I recommend the excellent (albeit abridged) BBC television adaptation from 2000.

The cast is reason enough, the cream of fine British dramatic & comedic actors of the time: Christopher Lee, Ian Richardson, Celia Imrie, Lynsey Baxter, Richard Griffiths, Fiona Shaw, John Sessions, and a very young Neve McIntosh & Jonathan Rhys-Meyers playing Fuchsia & Steerpike.

Someone posted this in another thread and I thought it would be good to link here as well.

Miatborn, fun easy read.

Band of rebels overthowing a horribly repressive empire. Silly but rich world and lovable characters.

The Illuminatus trilogy is good.

[quote]You won't get the subtlety in Rothfuss you get in Martin.

Two examples of the author not bludgeoning the reader over the head in literally thousands of pages?

George R. R. Martin's about as subtle as a bag of hammers.

What the fuck did I just watch, R125?!

Anyway--

I'm going to skim the previous replies again, but does anyone have a recommendation for someone who loved Sanderson's Mistborn Trilogy and the first two books of his Stormlight Archive, but who HATED Rothfuss' Name of the Wind?

Also a big Tolkien fan here, so nothing too derivative, please.

I love the Stormlight Archive and HATED the Mistborn series

I thought book two of the Mistborn series was slow as molasses, but loved book one and the second half of book three.

I have book three of Stormlight on my nightstand but am holding off as long as I can...

“Everybody Poops”

R133 is an uber-eldergay if he thinks "Everybody Poops" is a fantasy.

Reading third Mistborn right now R132! Second was indeed slow but it had it's moments. Try the Hundred Thousand Kingdoms by NK Jemisin. The book centers around a family at the head of an empire that gained dominance by enslaving 4 gods. It combines political intrigue, a cool world, and a murder mystery in one story. It's amazing!

I loved The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms - until the end

I totally get that! End was jarring. But I enjoyed it. I'm starting the Broken Earth Trilogy after Mistborn 3.

Seriously. "The Expanse" series is awesome. I'm reading the latest book now, and just loving it.

Here's another vote for The Dark Is Rising series by Susan Cooper.

Dark Materials starts out interesting but goes downhill.

N. K. Jemison's Broken Earth Series

Jeff VanderMeer's Souther Reach Trilogy

Dean Koontz - Watchers

[quote]Dark Materials starts out interesting but goes downhill.

Fast. The world-building in the first book is brilliant; the second book is polemical, and the metaphors get creaky. The third book abandons metaphor altogether.

Fantasy bump for "The Fall of Gondolin" this week. Any other Tolkien mega-dorks gonna read this?

R141 I'm sure I'm the only person to ever enjoy the terrible movie adaptation of WATCHERS, with Corey Haim.

Seriously. The Expanse.

It's a trilogy of Trilogies. The first three books are in the SyFy TV series as well (but the books are way better).

The final trilogy is still being written, but the second book in it comes out this fall, and the final book next year, so it's not like some Game of Thrones thing where you'll be waiting forever.

I think it's time to bump this thread.

I'm finishing up my fourth or fifth re-read of Tolkien's complete works and am enjoying Lord of the Rings just as much as the first time I read it.

I picked up The Eye of the World, the first book in Robert Jordan's massive Wheel of Time series to read next. It's a little intimidating seeing something like 12,000 pages ahead of me if the book gets me hooked...

Any Wheel of Time fans out there?

Just started, R143. Couldn't get into either Jordan or Sanderson. Though Rothfuss also starts slow, his book intrigued me; maybe I should give [i]Mistborn[/i] another try.

Peter F. Hamilton's Commonwealth series.

I'm about 150 pages from the end of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time, Book One.

Does the pacing ever pick up...? Does anything, you know, happen?

The characters are charming and the book is suitably "fantasy"... but at over 500 pages so far not a whole lot has happened, nor have we learned much about anything.

Anne Rice Vampire series.

R149. Yes, an awful lot does happen in WoT. However, the author died before finishing the series. Sanderson picked it up - but it was pretty noticeable. He’s a good writer, but working from Jordan’s notes it was still different. 20 years of reading that series and I have no memory of how it ended.

Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norell; Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy; Gormenghast Trilogy. That third one is mind boggling!

Discworld.

I read the first Wheel of Time book, and never felt the need to read any more. A few years later I picked up the book, knowing I had read it, but even reading the jacket and other notes on the cover (inside and outside) I couldn't remember a damn thing about the book. It was literally a waste of time to read, as it left absolutely zero impression. I have absolutely no clue what it was about or what happened in it.

Have any of you read N. K. Jemison's Broken Earth series? What are the books like?

I'm starting to get the impression that R154 is right; the book is nice but I suspect it will be disposable, forgettable. An enjoyable read but only as a way to pass the time.

And yeah, I know Sanderson finished the series for Jordan. I actually like Sanderson's work and have read all his books. They, too, are too long-winded, but the world-building is amazing and some of the characters are great.

Wheel of Time completely broke my interest in epic fantasy. I don't care how many people tell me Game of Thrones is awesome, I just can't face it. Not after that interminable slog. IIRC there was an entire book in which nothing actually happened. And the more I read the more I thought Jordan was a creep and a sexist.

After watching Altered Carbon on Netflix I decided to read the book. Definitely better than the show, but I'm not sure how memorable it will prove. Semi-random pet peeve: I've never bought the posthuman conceit that people won't mind dying if a copy lives on.

This thread bump has reminded me that I have several volumes of Theodore Sturgeon's short stories that I still haven't read. I just love the way Sturgeon writes. Check out his short novels More Than Human and The Cosmic Rape.

Just finished Wheel of Time Book One.

I think that any stretch of 75 pages works just fine, but there is no overarching goal or sense of direction. I don't really know what the book is about or what any of these characters are meant to achieve, either in terms of plot or character development.

I bought Book Two, but after almost 800 pages of wandering, mediocre storytelling (a page-turner, it was not) in Book One, I'm hesitant to give the next book more than 100 pages or so.

The publisher like to plaster this NYTimes quote all over the cover: "Robert Jordan has come to dominate the world Tolkien began to reveal." I hope Jordan's estate is paying whoever wrote that bullshit some measure of the royalties, because Jordan is far from Tolkien.

It's online only I think (Kindle), but the three book series "Wool/Shift/Dust" is very good. It was originally written in installments, so be sure to get the full collected works (the "omnibus" editions). It's a good if depressing series. And while it doesn't quite stick the landing at the end of book three, it's still well written, with great characters, and an imaginative story.

Anything by Terry Pratchett, especially his Discworld series.

Has anyone read anything by Brent Weeks (the Night Angel trilogy, as an example) or by Michael J. Sullivan (such as the Riyria Revelations)?

The Kingkiller Chronicle by Patrick Rothfuss

The Old Kingdom Series by Garth Nix

[quote] C. J. Cherryh's novels. The easiest entry into her works might be the Chanur novels.

Lesbian CJ writes both sci fi and separate fantasy series. I'm not much into the fantasy stories but I've very much enjoyed her sci fi. Chanur is an offshoot of the primary Union/Alliance series.

Book 8 of "The Expanse" series just dropped this week. I'll start it next week.

The 9th and final book is dropping next year.

The Dresden Files

Anita Blake, Vampire Hunter

The Walker Papers

Jane Yellowrock series