Remember Liz Phair?

Why?

I do remember Liz Phair and the incredible buzz surrounding Exile in Guyville. I've owned all of her albums except the most recent one. Sometimes I think she's incredibly overrated and not much of a singer. But, upon revisiting her stuff, some of it holds up for me, some of it doesn't. Her and Ryan Adams could be really interesting, or a disaster - very interested to see.

"Her and Ryan Adams..."

That's probably an "Oh, dear."

Exile was a brilliant debut album, one of the best. The stuff after that has its moments. She got a lot of shit for the one where she went full-on pop and worked with Avril Lavigne's producers, but that's what happens when you make your name as the lo-fi queen. Those days - when people got really worked up about "selling out" - seem like a long time ago.

I know the gossip

Flies around at breakfast

One of them rings in your hand

What I need is a man of action, I need my attraction to you

Driving me down all those dangerous avenues

Lions and tigers tearing at their food...

Where do you get the fuck off thinking

I was there at the party 'cause

All of my friends feed me evil reasons

Why you and I should not be friends...

Let's think this whole thing through,

Tell me, just what the hell is a lover supposed to do?

I got the wrong reaction

A slap in the face from you.

Wasn't she big in the Sappho set?

No, R6, she was not.

She toured with Lilith Fair twice (ugh), maybe that's what you're thinking of?

She has a much bigger following among gay men, as any strong-willed, slightly odd woman in the performing arts does once she gets a certain amount of exposure and recognition.

She's OK. Listening to Exile today, half is brilliant, half is fairly awful. I still like that Juvenilia EP with California and her cover of Turning Japanese.

Fuck and Run is a masterpiece.

Served jury duty with this cunt about 10 years ago.

Toxic combo of arrogant and ignorant...

I hate Juvenilia, and I was so excited to have found it - before hearing it. What am I missing, r8?

I did love her first three albums. After that, she became an embarrassment, trying to sound like a teenager instead of a forty-year-old woman.

Now she's pushing 50, and I have some margin of hope that she'll make a better effort with posturing.

I don't think you're missing anything R11. I just like those two songs a lot - California and the Turning Japanese cover, which probably makes me think that the whole EP is good, which maybe it isn't. I'm gonna listen to it today in light of this thread.

Love her--even though the last couple of albums weren't great. I have seen her in concert 5 times.

Love all of Exile, but My favorite is Stratford-on-Guy. One of my favorite songs ever, by anyone.

Her singing is so "lazy" - sort of the low-fi aesthetic, no matter the tempo of the song, but it totally works for the most part. Sort of like a female Stephen Malkmus.

Who dat?

Here is a track from her third album that exemplifies r14's observation.

Original recording of Fuck and Run.

She is quite monotonous, man.

I think that's part of r14.

Part of is how much she gets away with considering she is really not a singer of any sort. It might be interesting to hear someone who can sing do a few covers.

There is a marked difference between the Girlysound tapes she did in the early nineties and the versions she released on Matador years later.

^ ^ ^

Yeah, I mean there was a time in the early 90s where the whole *point* was to sound lo-fi, amateurish, like you recorded your music in your bedroom. I think it was just a reaction to the 80s, where even old Boomers like Steve Winwood and Eric Clapton were tweaking their records with Fairlights and drum machines and trying to glam themselves up for MTV. Music that was raw and under-produced sort of became an end in itself, and Liz Phair at the start of her career was a part of that. It definitely appealed to me at the time, though it eventually ran its course like anything else.

Anyway, thanks for posting that original version of "Polyester Bride." I'd never actually heard it before.

The second album didn't get so much love, but it had some great tracks, including the closer.

I miss lo-fi, r21.

I saw her play Exile in Guyville about 5 years ago. It was worth it.

My tie to her is watching the OJ bronco chase on television with the guy in the poloroids on the album cover. Random & Crazy!

I agree with R13, R14, and R16. Dead-on. I don't like that third album, but I like "Love Is Nothing" a lot.

Her music was deeply weird in the beginning, and then she became soooooo boring and normal. Even the slutty sell-out stuff—totally middle of the road.

[quote]It might be interesting to hear someone who can sing do a few covers.

I do not like this idea at all.

Her songs' appeal, at least when you consider her early- to mid-90s stuff, was that she sounded so ordinary and unpolished as a singer, her whole vibe lent the albums a feeling of outsider-art realness that cannot be done justice by someone who's more professional or polished. She started taking voice lessons, and she sucked. She let everyone else play guitar on her 2003 album, and she herself didn't play a note—it sucked.

The whole point of Liz Phair is that she was the very definition of independent rock and "alternative". No one else has played guitar like that, before or since, no one else has written a song like Stratford On Guy.

Not everyone's cup of tea, but that's her appeal in a nutshell.

(Notice I didn't even say a word about her lyrics, which were also brilliant.)

Interesting point, r25, and I sort of agree, though I think there is a lot to her songs and lyrics, but the actual recordings she made are not so accessible to most people. The lo-fi sound doesn't seem to translate to today, as much as I treasure it.

I'm not suggesting Celine Dion do a cover of Flower, though that would have a surreal appeal.

I wonder what some songs might sound like with the cynicism stripped away from the vocals. I actually wonder what a very straightforward singer with a wry bent like k.d. lang might do with something like Divorce Song.

Stratford-on-Guy really does carry a sense of floating through the clouds.

She will disappear again like Aimee Mann.

I love AImee Mann.

Aimee Mann hasn't disappeared really; she has her cult following and consistently puts out records. Recently did one with Ted Leo as a duo calling themselves The Both.

Liz Phair is the one who disappeared; who knows how long she'll stick around after this upcoming album, but who cares either way? Her best stuff is 20 years behind her.

By the way: it's important to make this distinction here while we have the opportunity. Her first two "indie-sounding" records are not lo-fi. They don't have tape hiss, they were done in a proper studio with professional engineering, mixing, and mastering.

The Girly Sound tapes she released in 1991 are in fact the real lo-fi stuff. Lo-fi means poor fidelity, and those tapes have it in spades. They were recorded on a cheap four-track cassette deck. Also lo-fi: certain Guided by Voices and Sebadoh records, and not a whole lot else.

The sound of her proper studio albums that followed is "spare"—the guitars are not beefy, sometimes the arrangements are minimal, but they are not and never will be lo-fi. I really wish people would learn what lo-fi means and stop misusing it. (I'm not picking on the DLer above who did it; most people really don't know what it means).

I was the muser, r31. I wasn't connecting her proper studio work to lo-fi. I like the Girlysound sound very much.

That said, I think she also benefited greatly from the production she got with the Matador releases.

I like lo-fi and I like big alike.

I think "lo-fi" is a term that also was sometimes applied beyond its strict technical definition, to characterize something that was a little rough as a matter of principle or deliberate aesthetics. It had an analogue in the xeroxed/homemade quality of fanzines and cover art of the time.

[quote]Also lo-fi: certain Guided by Voices and Sebadoh records, and not a whole lot else.

Michelle Shocked's The Texas Campfire Tapes.

And then she went in a polar opposite direction with the Avril Lavigne sound, at which point I gave up on her.

But notorious critic Robert Christgau liked it???

One outsider artist deserves another.

If someone could coax Wing out of retirement, she could make one fucking fantastic Liz Phair tribute album.

Love Stratford-on-Guy but also love Never Said Nothing.

R32, I agree with you. "Supernova" is a great production.

My point was to anyone calling her Matador albums "lo-fi". It's so weird what passes for "lo-fi" now. Things that sound like and are recorded the same way that ALL recorded music was done up through the 70s, is now called "lo-fi" just because it doesn't have the obvious ultra-modern, overproduced sound of things that are recorded on ProTools and Autotuned and mixed and mastered to within an inch of their life so that it doesn't even sound like any human played an instrument on the song. If it doesn't sound like that, it's "lo-fi".

Are the Beatles "lo-fi"? Black Sabbath? Led Zeppelin?

No, "lo-fi" was a thing before all the overproduced stuff that is music today. I remember Pavement being referred to as "lo-fi" when they were around. It was a created aesthetic that music writers subbed "lo-fi"; it didn't really have much to do with actual music production techniques, as someone upthread talked about.

R39, I never liked Pavement enough to listen to their early stuff, but I remember a couple things from Slanted & Enchanted sounding pretty flat, like they didn't bother to mix it at all, haha. No reverb. I can see people thinking that's lo-fidelity.

It's basically a problem, which will never go away, where people who don't really understand the making of music (not just recording, but also playing an instrument, writing melodies, etc.) but really really love music and want to get in on the action, so they devote themselves to being this minor music industry functionary, even though they're not quite good at accurately describing what they're reporting on. It's such a pathetic profession.

I'm talking about music journalists in that second paragraph there, in case that wasn't clear.

It was. And, I appreciate your comments on actual, technical "lo-fi" music vs. the "lo-fi" label/description used sometimes used by music writers.

"subbed" was supposed to be "dubbed."

Interesting to hear the demo-like versions of songs she re-recorded years later.

I like the dreamy quality of the Guyville version of Stratford-on-Guy, but the original version, with her mocking a chirpy flight attendant and taking a very sinister turn at the end is worth note.

Still, I think the later version beats the lo-fi in this case.

R44, I agree. I like the early lyrics that were later excised—"You can pretend that you're here from outer space/and this, this is your very first sight", "'cause I'm gonna take this plane out in less than five minutes/and this, this is your very last sight"—but you cannot beat the album version for sheer rock power.

I know people see "Divorce Song" as the ultimate Liz Phair song, but for me "Stratford-On-Guy" is for more compelling musically.

*far more compelling

Although I was certainly aware of her when she was popular, somehow I never heard her stuff until just now, listening to the songs on this thread. They're all pretty dull, aren't they? When I listen to them, I don't hear well-crafted or well-sung songs; I hear narcissism and the desire to be heard. it's hard to take things like this out of context -- at the time, maybe what she said was groundbreaking -- but now, it just seems underwhelming.

I think Ryan Adams is brilliant, and a great songwriter. We have friends in common, and he's a first class douche, but a talented one. He doesn't do anything without an ulterior motive, so, perhaps, this is his attempt to recapture some street cred and a little alternative lo-fire cool after recording the Taylor Swift cover cd, which was the most obvious, blatant attempt at publicity he's ever done.

She's had such a weird career. I FLOVE her first 2 albums, liked (but didn't love) the third, and then I was done. Her initial appeal was what R25 was talking about--she sounded like a legit outsider who maybe could just barely play guitar and sing, but whose songs were so real and raw they were so compelling. She sounded like some young but brilliant and world-weary street kid. Then it turned out she was from this really wealthy or upper middle class background, and her second album got this huge media blitz that didn't jive at all with what you imagined her to be like from that first record. She went from warbling "I want to be your blow job queen" to performing on the Today Show (or one of those am shows). Then she went full-on pop and it felt like a weird betrayal--like, she seemed so real at first but we didn't know her at all.

And to add to the favorite songs list, "Shane" going into "Nashville" on Whip-Smart is a beautiful 1-2 punch.

....

Her father is head of internal medicine at Northwestern University Hospital, so she would, indeed, be from money.

I like some of her "pop" mainstream stuff like Rock Me off the album produced by The Matrix (Avril producers). It's not her best and it won't change the world but it's enjoyable and far from awful, IMO.

Remember that insane NYTimes review of that album?? So weird.

I thought it was known right away that she was from Winnetka, IL or some other North Shore suburb and went to New Trier High School - which would mean that at the minimum she was everyday upper middle class. Not that people really had a reason to put it together. In fact, that's the image she gave off to me - a bored rich girl playing around with music; an "outsider" maybe within the confines of her school and town, but not really in a broader context (she was a wealthy white suburbanite). But, I guess "outsider" in the sense of not being developed and overproduced by a record label would fit, at least in the beginning.

Totally agree, R48/R49. I always liked that duo of songs. Whip-Smart was a pretty underrated album, in retrospect.

I didn't actually hate her self-titled album - for what it was (shamelessly glossy, hooky pop with the intention of getting radio play) it wasn't bad. I think people were put off by the lyrics, which were more crude than what people expected from teen-pop or 36-year-olds. But I doubt it did her career many favors in the long run. She lost all her old indie fans and it was still probably too eccentric for teenage pop fans.

It all but destroyed her career, R53. She did not make any more money than she did as a Matador artist, and she alienated a large chunk of her fan base. She probably gained a few mainstream fans, ans she can still sell out club shows when she tours, if I'm not mistaken. But it left her in a very weird position.

And all that stuff about her being upper middle class was indeed known at the time. People in Chicago thought she was a poseur (that is, the people who didn't like her music—plenty people did like it.) But that's what adds to her appeal, I think. She hadn't been grooming herself to be a rock star/songwriter, she just had a knack for it. She's a dilettante in that regard.

I will say it's not the case that she can barely play guitar. Her playing is *sloppy* and she doesn't do lead guitar parts herself, but she is extremely inventive with her chording, totally knows her way around the fretboard, and is a true original.

Her first three albums were really solid. She was doing her own thing, and had a lo-fi sound that was shared by a few other artists, but cunts like Steve Albini were incredibly jealous that she was selling more than some of the acts he was producing.

As tiresome as it may sound and as SJW-ish as it may sound, there's also sexism involved. A dude can get up there, barely be able to play standing up, and be worshipped as a rock god. Liz got up there and did her thing, and pretty much got told to be pretty and sing about sucking dick.

People talk about the fourth one being the huge sellout, but Liz didn't have a choice. Or rather, she made a terrible mistake when she signed to Capitol. She originally understood that Capitol expected her to deliver a Liz Phair album, much like the earlier three. She had Michael Penn produce it, and turned in a finished product. They rejected it and threatened to sue her. Her only options were to either buy the master back from Capitol (almost a million dollars, which she didn't have) or do what they asked her to do, which was to work with the other producers.

The Penn songs were great - the others, cringeworthy. The next album was just bland. And Funstyle was interesting, but just odd.

It's kind of weird how much of a chip people seem to have on their shoulder about her, though. The cunt female reviewer from the Chicago Reader in particular. And all reviewers that celebrate a fuck ton of mediocrity. I think unfortunately she has the uphill battle of an amazing first album that everyone expects her to do and redo over and over again.

Ah, I didn't really know about the history behind the 4th album but it makes sense. I still don't think it's all that bad, considering. The 5th (Somebody's Miracle) was the one that really stunk. I listened to it once. Just really uninspired and middle-of-the-road.

Brad Wood might be the necessary key to help her flesh out her songs. When her 3rd album came out I believe one of the producers, Scott Litt, said he was used to people entering the studio with songs more fully formed.

Sometimes there's a reverse snobbery with the indie crowd. I remember all of the complaints about her background. I even remember reading an article where one person from this crowd complained that she dyes her hair. That certainly makes her a phony! Love Go West leading into Cinco de Mayo from Whip Smart. I'll judge Liz by her music.

R54, I know she can definitely play, I just meant that the way her sound made it seem like she was practically winging it added to her appeal.

R57, Brad Wood is absolutely the mastermind behind the arrangements and overall sound of her first two records. I know she's credited with arrangement, but that's just her presenting as an auteur. Brad and his engineer Casey Rice were the ones who made those albums sound the way they did, as well as writing their own bass, drums, 2nd guitar, etc. parts themselves.

Sure, Liz wrote all the songs (rhythm guitar, lyrics, vocal melodies), but she's always relied on her producers to fill in the rest. It's one of her major weaknesses as a recording artist. She should be an auteur, but she isn't, not quite. No one who was would have allowed those Capitol Records albums to happen. Ugh.

As for Steve Albini, I don't think he has ever—I mean, EVER—cared if his recordings outsold anyone else's. That's baloney. She never asked to work with him, but if she had, in 1993, he would've gladly recorded her. He'll record anyone. You, dear reader, can call up Electrical Audio and book a session with him tomorrow. He just didn't happen to be a fan of Liz's music (he, somewhat sexist-ly, seems to think it's for girls only), and he absolutely loathed the way she promoted herself—as a bland persona using her sexuality in a bland way to sell records. I think that's as much the fault of the stylists and photographers on her photo shoots as it is her own. But yeah, it's true—there are some people who will just never give her a fair shake.

Funny trivia: the song "Glory" on Exile In Guyville was actually written about Steve Albini.

GREAT thread guys, I love some of Phair's stuff and really hate some of her stuff. At least she's interesting, even more so when discussing her career trajectory and how her music changed so much over time. Plus, to go from so hyped to being labeled a sell-out is an interesting arc as well. No one likes the sparse "California" from the Juvenelia EP? Lol, I mentioned the EP upthread and someone responded that they hated it.

Exile and Whipsmart STILL hold up, even though I can totally understand people not liking them (or any of her music) - I wouldn't do the music snob thing and dismiss them as "not getting it." Phair is an acquired taste.

They don't know what they like so much about it, they just go for any shiny bauble, and nobody sparkles like you. But I can't imagine it in better terms...

I love her and Exile changed my life when I was a kid. I'll always show up to see what she does next.

I love her music, even the "mainstream" 4th album. I even have her songs from soundtracks and compilation albums..but she kind of lost me with the last two albums. I have them, but never listen to them like I do the others.

Saw her a few years ago at the Troubadour in Hollywood. It was just her and one other guitarist, doing stripped down versions of her songs. It was almost the end of the show and I was getting antsy because she hadn't played Stratford-on-Guy yet. Something came over me and I yelled "STRATFORD!!!!" and then other people joined in. She seemed surprised people were wanting to hear it, and said they hadn't rehearsed it, but they went for it, and it was great.

Glad to see so many people on the DL love that song too.

R61, nice reference. That song is actually about the way her first album was received by other people vs. the way she saw it at the time. I think it's always thought of as a love song, (people love their love songs, you know) but it's actually this navel-gazing, assessment of her previous work.

Juvenilia is great but there were so many other great songs on the Girly Sound tapes. "California" is great, "dead Shark" is pretty cool, and "Easy" is easily one of the best songs she's ever written.

Weird the random things you remember: I remember in an early interview she said she went to camp w Julia Roberts who was incredibly bossy.

Liz on kid-Julia Roberts: "Why is she always calling me collect? Her dad's rich enough."

Stratford On Guy is forever and ever in my life soundtrack.

It actually makes me cry a little to see it wasn't just me, after all.

I just listened to the song "Love Is Nothing" upthread. It had been several years since I'd heard it, as I don't really like that album (although the demos and outtakes from it are actually quite good).

"Love Is Nothing", in addition to being a good showcase for her lassez-faire vocal style, is a perfect example of the kind of guitar playing I've mentioned several times in this thread. That is one loooong chord progression—she crams so much in—and it's beautiful as well as weird. I'm telling you, no one else does it like Liz Phair did.

R67, I think I just fell in love with you a little bit.

I had a crush on Casey Rice - the guitar guy on the left in this video (he was the one with the toaster problem in Supernova video). God I wanted him to plug it in my amp so bad.

Aww, R69....and I thought for sure I was getting a big MARY! for that one.

I knew a guy that worked at a Barnes & Noble with me. He was there for like six weeks, and then he left quick one night. When I asked him why, it turned out he was in some way part of the studio band for the next album....

Which I think at that point became whitechocolatespaceegg.

I don't have any sympathy for the backlash she got for the shit albums.

Also, I wonder if she ran out of songwriting steam and creativity. A bunch of songs from whitechocolatespaceegg are on the girlysound tapes. She was still mining her work from her twenties rather than writing all new material.

Speaking of the third album, it featured what might have served as an anthem for her ambition.

"It's nice to be liked / but it's better by far to get paid."

And Shitloads of Money goes back to the lo-fi period.

R73, yes, that is correct. What happened was, she got married, got pregnant, stopped smoking pot, retreated from the music world as well as the "cool" scene that birthed her career, settled into suburbia, and lost inspiration. There's a reason why it took so long for that third record to come out. The next record, she says, would've been dull and sad without those cheesy pop songs on it—she said her demos leading up to that weren't anything special, and I believe her.

Her early, inspired songwriting (1990-1996) was only possible because she had come from a creative environment (Oberlin College) and had friends who exposed her to weirder, punk/alternative music. That's what set her off in that direction. But once she became removed from that, she regressed into what she was before: a normal, preppie, intelligent suburban girl with mainstream tastes.

Just watch the interviews she gave to MTV in the early 90s and contrast that with everything post-whitechocolatespaceegg. She seems like a very different person.

EXILE will always have a special place in my heart. When I met my first boyfriend, it had been out a couple of years, but it was one of the things we first connected over. My first kiss with a guy was while it was playing, as were a couple of other "firsts" with a guy. Heh heh. Of course, that didn't work out, as often happens with first loves, but we are still friendly and while I don't always think of our romance when I listen to EXILE, it does bring up some good memories sometimes.

Her best stuff were demos she recorded under the name girlysounds, a year or two before her polished sounding debut.

r77, did you read any of this thread?

R77, Girly Sound stuff is mostly very good, but there were some re-arranged songs from those tapes that she used on her studio albums that were much improved upon. But yeah, some of her best stuff was on those initial cassettes. Amazing guitar playing and song structures.

The WORST reimagining of a GS song came in the form of "Can't Get Out Of What I'm Into", a milquetoast outtake from the Somebody's Miracle album. The original song was called "Gigalo", and it was written from the perspective of a male hustler. The reworked song omitted the hustler theme altogether, and was also far less interesting musically. Her guitar playing on "Gigalo" was way, way better.

I'm a fan, but.... She was a bitch to front desk staff at Ivan Noel salon when she came in for her boring partial highlights appointment. The female staff, not the cute gay male staff. I recall her waiting for the elevator after the appointment huddled into herself as if we were going to pounce her. She whispered into a candy red Nokia phone circa 1998. She looked toally Chicago north suburbs. Little capris, little trenchcoat. Yes it is pathetic that I hold onto this.

R80, she has been known to be bitchy. She's also quite obviously narcissistic; her Twitter account is loaded with retweeting of praise from others, and she often shares YouTube links to her own songs. She also is big into having public friendships with other famous people.

I like Aimee Mann and Ryan Adams.

R78 No, I didn't

I listened to Whipsmart today. I basically picks up where Exile left off. I like it, good album.

[quote]She will disappear again like Aimee Mann.

She'll disappear like Aimee Semple McPherson.

Aimee Mann has hardly disappeared. She's had a number of great albums and a lot of fans.

Not everyone wants to be Demi FUCKING Lovato.

Aimee Mann has gotten lots of love from DL.

I was trying to track down a copy of Exile on vinyl a few months back and it's going for insane prices on Amazon.

Is it really, R88? I have a Matador original pressing. Maybe I'll have a go at selling it too.

Meh! I think even the worst or least acclaimed album by PJ Harvey is better than anything on Guyville. With that said I would have to say Whitechocolatespaceegg is one of the most underrated albums in all of the 90s and ever in the history of indie rock. I could hear it’s influence in albums like 69 Love Songs and even the very similar Stories From the City Stories From the Sea which is like a cousin to ....spaceegg. She actually sounds passionate and confident in this shimmering epic. People kept wanting Exile Part 2 and she wasn’t willing to keep things stale and went way out of her comfort zone to make this but nobody appreciated that especially with acts like Beck and PJ winning the hearts of critics and her college following. God forbid she decide to experiment and mix things up. If Malkmus had done what she did critics would have had their noses shoved up Pavements ass as usual. But Liz actually sings in this one which is unfamiliar territory to a band that sounded like Sonic Youth going into a coma. There were great songs on her follow up as well, the critics and snobs were just appalled she would have anything to do with a “pop” artist. Look at Pitchfork today ironically kissing up to of all people Ariana Grande. Really a 0/100 for s/t? From PJ Harvey to Harvey Levin. Who’s the “sellout” now?

Liz Phair

Ani di Franco

Beth Orton

Jill Sobule

I know Beth Orton fans would murder me on the spot but I actually prefer her soundalike from Wales, Jem. Love Sobules When My Ship Comes In. I heard she kissed Katy Perry ;)

Ryan Adams being investigated

Sounds like he wasn't a peach to Liz, either.

Shame cause I hear she’s Extraordinary if you only get to know her ;) I LOVE that song, I don’t care what the snobs have to say. If you think that sounds anything like Avril you need to get your ears checked. Steve Albini produced Ys by Joanna Newsom. Why weren’t the indie snob critics or wannabe critic types complaining that all her songs were rip offs of “Where is My Mind” or “Broken Face?” Because there was a “Gigantic” difference between Surfer Rosa and Ys. I don’t understand why so many were so unfair to Phair.

Is Ryan Adams fat now?

Looks like he is but that’s between us. I NEVER SAID NOTHING;)

Forgot Pitchfork gave the self titled a 0.0 - they used to be ridiculous about that. Sonic Youth's NYC Ghosts & Flowers got one too, even though it wasn't radically different from the well-reviewed albums before & after.

Liz Phair Is Leaving Guyville For WOMADelaide

Bump.

I liked your post, r90. I too am a longtime fan of Whitechocolatespaceegg and consider it an underrated album. Liz's career has not been free of missteps but she absolutely has been a victim of double standards.

Who invited her??

Liz Phair’s escape from Guyville