What is it with alcoholics?

Is your brother the only alcoholic you know OP?

He's living in the Stone Age.

Advise your parents to go to Al-Anon, a group for loved ones of alcoholics, where they can learn how to deal with this kind of manipulative deceit,

Alcoholism and drug addiction are very selfish addictions.

OP, in AA, people are suggested to accept responsibility for their actions. Not that I've ever seen a lot of that going around, though. But it's suggested.

Since your brother isn't sober, he is likely using these excuses to "blame others, be a victim" as a way to manipulate those around him, so that he can avoid the effort of changing his own self.

There are plenty of alcoholics who aren't as you describe OP, though. Perhaps you are just describing human nature, alcoholics or otherwise.

R2, I went to Al-Anon, and all I got out of it were alcoholics slumming at the meetings blathering endlessly about their drinking, women attending the men's groups, and closeted guys hitting on me.

Give him a compassionate foot in his ass.

The alcoholics I know conveniently "forget" the damage they cause. So in their minds, they are only asking for forgiveness for something they barely remember.

I don't know about your first sentence, R7; but your second sentence is nonsensical. Are you hoping to get asked for forgiveness for things they don't remember? How would that actually work? If you don't like them, fine, that's your right, but I still don't understand about sentence 2?

Alcoholism is a made up "disease ". It's just an excuse for people to get drunk and blame on it something besides their own laziness and weakness.

Alcoholics have the best tasting cum.

Especially if they were in the Army.

Define "disease", R9? We use the word "disease" to describe similar things so that we can talk about them collectively. Here are some diseases:

Smallpox

Acne

Gum disease

Arthritis

Depression

Alcoholism

Diabetes

All of these are really quite different, but they all cause poor health. They are progressive, and treatable. So, they do actually have a number of things in common. If you'd want to split mental illnesses from physical illnesses, well fine, one could make that argument.

[quote] R9: Alcoholism is a made up "disease ". It's just an excuse for people to get drunk and blame on it something besides their own laziness and weakness.

You know some foul people, R9. I know a lot of alcoholics, but have never heard anyone make this argument. But you sound like you and your friends deserve each other.

I'm an alcoholic and I constantly feel guilt and shame at the things I've done. Sometimes I wake up feeling guiltily even if I didn't do anything! My problem is a coping mechanism. I don't believe it is a disease. I prefer to drink alone, I drink to escape, mainly.

R12, fight off your demons.

[quote] I don't believe it is a disease.

It doesn't matter what you believe. The American Medical Association decides what ailments are considered diseases, and which aren't. At least for the US.

Alcoholics aren't responsible for their addiction, but they are responsible for their behavior - that includes drinking as well as physical altercations.

I never developed a taste for alcohol, so could never understand the addiction, that people constantly craving something that tastes so awful.

R5 I went to gay Al-Anon meetings and found it so clique-y and hard to talk to anyone who was already in a clique. The straight Al-Anon meetings were much more helpful and inclusive.

Luckily, I've never drank, but have a tendency to enable my friends who have issues.

They might have compasion for a "recovering" alcholoc but some old drunk who keeps fucking up, nope.

It's a disease. Believe me, I've lived with them. It doesn't make it right what they do but stop stigmatized them.

Calling it a disease and you're powerless definitely gives addicts and alcoholics an out. Addicts are the worst.

Alcoholics don't care about the pain and chaos they cause. The only thing they care about is the booze.

The disease is one long, agonizing road of hell for the friends and family of the alcoholic until they drop him or he dies. And that's just the way he wants it.

[quote] I'm an alcoholic and I constantly feel guilt and shame at the things I've done.

Tell us more. I know several who just feel smug as though they've just gotten away with something.

Why did your parents give the car keys to a known alcoholic?

It's best to assume that every word an alcoholic speaks is a lie.

I, too, am an alcoholic. First steps...right?

I think over the past 20 years (I'm 50, now) I have been completely sober maybe 6 months total (I also used a lot of cocaine during this time.). No matter how f'ed I got on cocaine, I still wanted to get drunk. It's completely irrational and self-destructive...I KNOW.

I have burned and destroyed countless professional relationships, not always by my actions, but increasingly by the gossip about my behavior. Most of these cannot be salvaged.

The notions of sobriety are alien to drunkards. I have dear friends who are sober and thriving. I have dear friends who are sober and get nabbed for dealing methamphetamine with a 10 year sentence looming. (THAT was the toughest...why the fuck even get sober?)

Dealing meth is not the most sober behavior I've ever heard of.

R22 I never feel good about what I have done. I have hurt many people. This New Years I did something/said something terrible and may have finally destroyed a twenty year friendship. I woke up on my friends couch covered in bruises.

I should apologize or send flowers but it has happened so many times it's pointless at this stage.

But I've never felt good about doing or saying something stupid. I always feel embarrassed and ashamed. But some nice people drink, some assholes drink -- we are all just trying to navigate this world the best we can I guess!

I'm truly sorry to hear that, R27. You likely won't get a lot of empathy around here, but I've lived with and known several alcoholics, and I know the struggles. I think we all have demons that cause us to find ways to escape. I'm genuinely curious, though - have you made attempts at sobriety? Do you feel sobriety is something you can achieve? I know it's highly personal and so individual. I live with someone who was seriously addicted to alcohol and drugs, giving up his partying ways about 15 years ago. Even now he'll say it's a daily struggle. He maintains sobriety, though, because he knows what it was like having the drugs and alcohol being in control of him. Anyway, I wish you the best. I know it can be hell.

Sorry to hear OP. Years ago I met a straight guy through another straight friend. We hit if off immediately, hanging out all the time, talked frequently etc, He worked with a old girlfriend of another friend. I found out that she told him she thought I was gay. Bam no more friend. All of a sudden it was finished despite nothing happening or being said. Even though it's been 15 years, that one still bothers me.

AA members tend to be bitter that they never learned how to drink responsibly. I'm sorry that you're such a sad sack that you can't enjoy alcohol for what it is: a relaxant that is meant to be sipped, NOT guzzled, because you're an emotional mess. They also like to think that anyone who drinks is really an alcoholic, they just haven't admitted it.

R23 they didn't give him the keys. Nobody gives him anything he just takes. The keys were on top of the refrigerator and he took them.

Watch Risky Drinking on HBO on demand. Great documentary!

R30 is addicted to his own cuntescence. Sip your own vagination, cunt.

[quote] we are all just trying to navigate this world the best we can I guess!

Lies. You're not trying your best, R27. Not at all. You're acting like an asshole and you're clearly aware of it. You continue to do it, so don't attempt to convict us that you're trying to deal with your demons when you're not. You have no credibility.

R30 is unnecessarily cruel and judgements. But you think alcoholics are bad?

All this disease stuff is nonsense. As my wise grandmother used to say, you know how you stop drinking? YOU STOP DRINKING!! It really is as simple as that. Case closed.

R36, it's actually quite complicated. That's why we're talking about it, because it isn't simple.

OP, leaving the car keys out in the kitchen, when they know their son is an alcoholic prone to destructive acts, is actually enabling the addict in their destruction. Be glad your brother didn't drive into and kill a bunch of kids..... Or do anything else your parents would share responsibility for.

Food is my booze.

people self medicated for a reason. Sounds like a very disturb family. Can you all pay for long term, loving therapy? Also, people with mental illness self medicate too? Are you sure he was drinking with that accident? Alcoholic and drug abuse has been over done, and a lot of disturb people blame the victim. Everyone drinks, pot is legal, it sounds like your are in the dark age about this. I hope you brother is okay. You can get seriously injured in a car accident. Your lack of compassion and concern, is a complete red flag to me.

So in other words, R38, people have to alkie-proof their homes? Sorry, but if it's the parents' home, they can leave the keys where they want. They are NOT responsible for the alcoholic's actions. They are responsible, however, for allowing the alcoholic to destroy their property. In which case, they have the choice of kicking him out. And since some alkies don't get help until they reach rock bottom, kicking him out could be the best thing for him.

OP, do you live in a state with legal weed?

My brother doesn't smoke weed or anything else because he has asthma. He's also one of the minority of asthmatics who can drink like a fish and it doesn't affect his condition.

R40 my brother is okay. He's had other accidents because of his drinking and never got hurt. This is the first time the car is totally wrecked and the first time the cops were involved. Red flag? He used up my compassion and concern a long time ago. I had stop with the concern and compassion to save my own sanity.

He doesn't live with my parents. He just walked into their house drunk and went straight for the refrigerator because he was hungry. He never has money for food because he spends it on guess what. That was when he grabbed the keys. My dad told him to get out of the house and he didn't realize my brother had the car keys. He told the cops he was driving home and had my parents permission to take the car which was a lie.

You know, you drink to drown your sorrows, but they learn to swim.

Isn't getting a pass what everyone believes? I have had sex with 100 men and have the AIDS now. I couldn't be bothered to use the free condoms given out at the bar.

Now I want taxpayers to foot the bill for my $300/month antiretrovirals.

But that's the problem, Mr. R45 with the AIDS now. Neither the Grindrs nor the Scruffs dispense condoms. What is a fat whore to do when the man goes up into him?

Woe, WOE!

It's a real thing and it sucks.

No matter how bad alcoholics feel about their behavior , their family and friends feel worse from the abuse they suffer from them. So, no pity.

[quote]Isn't getting a pass what everyone believes?

Yes, it's our mantra, in fact. We are grown up children who don't take responsibility for anything. The world owes us. Free everything along with forgiveness and compassion for all our fuck ups.

R49 is so warped, that his or her satire is unintelligible because it is so removed from reality.

What are you going on about?

R41, yes: the family of an alcoholic prone to dangerous and d structive acts do, indeed, have a responsibility to 'proof' their home and possessions against the addict's actions. The parents ARE responsibile for letting their addict child take, drive and crash their car, if they don't take steps to keep him out of the driving seat.

The Das are "POWERLESS" and only JESUS can magically TAKE AWAY their problems.

They use "Higher Power" but they absolutely mean "GOD" and especially "JESUS".

God magically takes away their alcohol problem - MAGIC.

No, YOU make your own choices and YOU can stop your destructive behavior. No Magic Jesus cures for you, just more enabling and "slips" and "It works if you work it" and "Let Go And Let God" and all that other fake shit.

Alcoholics are self-absorbed and boring. I hate alcohol. It tastes like gasoline. If it tasted better, I might be able to develop an addiction like my Diet Coke addiction.

Stop your whining. Alcoholics come in all shapes and sizes. Same for alcoholics in recovery. If OP and his family are foolish enough to act like everything is normal when you have a known alcoholic in the family - that's on OP and his family.

Is he cute? I love hot messes. Especially molesting hot, drunk, passed out straight guys.

So all of you who believe alcoholics are just lazy also believe homosexuality is a choice.

Oh look, it took 56 replies, but the false equivalency troll finally showed up.

R56 has a good point.

R54 has some good points. I take issue with only one part. He suggests that a family without an alcoholic is a "normal" one; whereas, I think the more appropriate word is "healthy". It's probably more "normal" for every family to have an alcoholic in it, somewhere.

R57 I was just wondering how far you denial extended.

STOP WHINING!

I agree R37. complicated. Does anyone remember Diane Schuler who killed eight people, including herself, her daughter, and three nieces in a horrific car accident, no one suspected she could be an alcoholic. Nice, middle class women like her just weren't made that way. Her husband still professes till this day, there was no drinking problem with her although evidence was all over the place. I feel even if it's well hidden, like Diane's was, denial is more likely the case. It takes all kinds (like in small towns), who may drink just as much choosing not'to see the problem although everyone is dying around them from ether alcohol poisoning -liver loss -suicide.

And deep down a lot of non drinkers don't always want to be bothered helping someone who wont themselves, at times, arguably justified inevitability hurting those around them. Just one big ole circle.

I've been around lots of alcoholics, they are a bottomless pit and endless energy drain. You can't help those who don't want to help themselves.

R63 Yeppers...my point exactly. THANKS!

There's an obvious genetic component, and the gene for alcoholism has been identified. Genes for other addictive behaviors (opiates, food, sex, gambling) have also been found - and if you give these people Naltrexone (drug that blocks certain pleasure pathways) - the addiction stops because you've blocked the high that they get off of their substance of choice. So, sorry, it's not just a "self control" issue - there's something wrong with the brain that seeks this out this substance as a reward desperately. Failing to understand this & other addiction problems is what causes addicts to get worse. Contrave (recent obesity drug) also has Naltrexone in it - to stop the "high" that fat people get off of food...that most normal people don't get. I'm not sure why this is such a debate when there's plenty of scientific research on this area.

Genes don't dictate your behavior, of course, but they will cause a predisposition that is very easy to fall into.

R65 is right on the money. Great post. The Vivitrol shot (1 x per month) is saving lives. But only the rich can afford it. If you don't have insurance it's approx $1100 per month. With insurance it's still prohibitively expensive for most people...and insurance often won't pay for it long term, which is necessary. You can't just give someone a life raft for 3 months and then send them to AA or NA wishing them good luck. All addiction treatment (other than Vivitrol) has a 90-95% failure rate. The cost of these meds needs to come WAY down.

I am not suggesting that ALL alcoholics are assholes, screwed-up, selfish, refuse to accept responsibility and blame-shift, but I can tell you the ones who are like that are difficult and feel entitled even when clean and sober and are narcissists. Sober, without the alcohol they may be a little more civil and reasonable, but are still assholes nevertheless.

Look up narcissist signs and traits. I'll bet it fits him to a tee even when sober. From your post he sure sounds like one.

R67, sounds like Trump. He never drank, so we can't know if he'd develop a drinking problem. Sounds like it though.

Are there five minutes in a day you don't think of Trump, r68? Get help.

IT'S A DISEASE AND I DON'T LIKE BEING ON MEDICATION. IT TAKES AWAY THE HIGHS AND LOWS!

My mother's an alcoholic and doesn't get why we're all so horrible to her--we put her in a home and she simply cannot figure out why. Will not consider for a moment that it's because she falls, injures herself, doesn't pay her bills or taxes, has cirrhosis and hepatitis and brain loss, refuses to bathe and shits herself. I'm an alcoholic and terrified of ending up like her.

But I don't drink any more. That shit scares me. Also, fwiw, I do think AA helps you to acknowledge the results of your actions. Which weirdly does kill the fun of drinking.

Vivitrol isn't mood altering, R70. All it takes away is cravings.

If you want to do some constructive, take your brother to AA meeting. You'll encounter scores of alcoholics who take responsibility for everything they did while on the bottle.

R73 And most likely after asked to go he won't...

R74, I'm sorry that you obviously had a bad experience with an alcoholic, but please don't try to demonized all of them. It's ugly. Your demon is not everybody.

The only group as self destructive are diabetics. The minute you tell someone they're a diabetic they want the cake.

R74. If the brother isn't asked to go, he won't know if he's willing to go or not. Unless a handy psychic is around to provide the answer.

Alcoholism is a disease just like homosexual pedophilia is a disease.

These people need our love not our disdain.

What's your disease, R78?

OP = 0/10

So many judgmental and ignorant people here, including R9, R30, R36 and R53, who clearly have no idea what alcoholism is.

R12, I completely understand what you're saying. I hope you're able to overcome those thoughts/behaviors.

You can be a drunk, but no excuse for driving while intoxicated or violent while intoxicated!!!!!!!

Thanks for bumping this utterly essential thread, r82.