Carrie Fisher died on the Plane

The call is coming from inside the house!

So they kept a corpse on an ICU respirator for 4 days?

I doubt there was anybody on the plane qualified to declare her as DOA. They likely put her on life support at the hospital to see if she could be revived. After the family decided it was time, they pulled the plug.

That is not unusual r2. Many people who are really dead are kept alive via life support. Have you heard of Terry Schiavo?

And if you looked at the DL thread when this happened, once the reports came in that she hadn't been breathing for a long time...well, many of us recognized that she was gone.

Just wait until she finds out her guardian angel is a gay, Lutheran special olympian.

"You came from the fly-fly!"

Well she likely was, yes but they allegedly found a pulse after she landed so she was kept on life support until they could asses the brain damage. Some would say she died when the machines were turned off and her organs shut down but she was brain dead since the incident on the plane. She would not have been pronounced dead aboard the aircraft at all. That's false. There's an account from a passenger in row 7 on FlyerTalk (Carrie was in row 2).

No one ever "dies" on a commercial aircraft. That was one of the first things hammered into our heads in F/A training. We are trained to act as if the passenger is merely ill even if they are discovered stone cold with their eyes rolled back into their heads. It's a legal thing.

As I said in the original Carrie thread(before the announcement of her passing,) the very fact that CPR was performed is proof in itself of cessation of respiration and pulse which = dead. Hence, we didn't need another passenger on the flight to tell us she died on the flight.

I just tracked the tail number of the plane. Would you travel in that seat now or no? Personally I would, I've lived in homes where relatives passed so I'm not squeamish but I see lots of people on aviation forums purposefully avoiding it now.

R8 Yeah she needed to get ready for her close up.

What is the tail number r8?

They ship dead bodies back in cargo all the time... what are people scared about - that she had a heart attack on the plane rather than sitting above 2 dead bodies in the cargo hold? All manner of ungodly behavior happens on public transportation (death included).

i know people who will not buy a house if anyone died there. I know people 50+ who have never seen a corpse and act like giggling, squirming 6 year olds at any mention of death, dead bodies, illness. I bet lots of people would freak out if they knew they were in Carrie's chair.

I guarantee you that 10 people have already flown in her seat.

They likely don't know it ;-)

She wasn't that important that laws would be circumvented and a completely false story perpetuated. In fact, she was never that important at all.

R10 Every aircraft has a number on the tail. In the industry it is referred to as the "ship number."

Good lord, R8, people are seriously moronic. Millions of people have probably sat in that seat and none of them died there.

R8 never sleeps in hotel nor motel bed neither.

Some people won't buy a house where the owners divorced either. But death is the biggie. Fucking hated my time in real estate.

[quote] I just talked with someone who was on the same plane as Carrie Fisher.

Sure you did

[quote] Many people who are really dead are kept alive via life support. Have you heard of Terry Schiavo?

Terry Schiavo was not on a ventilator.

It's not always obvious whether a patient is brain dead. There are different levels. But if she had enough brain damage where either she would be a vegetable or her brain could not support her breathing or vitals, then it's a matter of determining when to take her off life support.

People afraid of an airplane "death seat" better not ever be admitted to a hospital. Those beds and rooms have been died in hundreds of times over.

I'm sure a lot of those people have sat in a "death seat" and never knew it.

Does anyone know if Carrie was flying first class or coach? I'm serious.

Well everyone on this thread is speaking 100% logic and common sense but completely underestimating how removed from death the average person is.

I'm Irish Catholic and we were brought to wakes from birth. The body was displayed in the room. Sometimes in a coffin but if they died at home then still in the deathbed. We sat by the body and ate sandwiches and thought nothing of it. Always thought the fear of dead people was a Protestant thing. Could never figure how people had 0 living grandparents and had never seen a body, had no idea morgues existed or what autopsies were for and responded my explanations with abject horror in their eyes.

R25 Global first. There's only 8 seats in the First Class cabin, Carrie was in row 2 with Gary!

I knew she died on the plane but celebrities get some weird accommodations.

Why hasn't Paul Simon commented?

R29, he may simply be a sensible human being with no need to air his private feelings in public. That or Edie Brickell won't let him.

He has r29

OP, in retrospect, your comment concerning her mother Will come back to haunt you.

Then I guess that plane is literally the death star.

How did they find out she was dead ? Was she blue ? Did she keel over? Did someone ask for her autograph and she was unresponsive ?

I'm sure the person sitting next to her will tell their story for the right price .

Wasn't there an article that said she started vomiting then complained of breathlessness?

There's an account from a passenger in business 5 rows behind her on an aviation forum. He said there was no doctor on board when they asked for one but they then asked for any medical personnel and 2 nurses came forward. He said they ran an IV and did cpr but that it was kept low key, it certainly wasn't a big scene. I doubt any economy passengers saw a thing.

Well, of course she "died" on the plane: she was in cardiac arrest = asystole = cardiac death = no electrical activity on the ECG. Even if she was in PEA (pulseless electrical activity), wherein there is electrical activity of the heart on the ECG, but no pulse and no actual pumping of the heart, it's still considered cardiac arrest (which is pretty much death). And contrary to what all the TV shows, including medical shows, and movies show, cardiac arrest/asystole/PEA is not treated with defibrillation/shocking the heart: there is nothing to shock, since there is no heart beat. Defibrillation is to restore normal heart rhythm/convert arrhythmia/dysrhythmia. So, the ACLS (advanced cardiac life support) treatment for asystole/PEA is CPR plus medication, namely epinephrine. It was reported there were nurses and possibly an EMT on board, who did administer CPR; whether the plane had a medical response kit with ACLS drugs hasn't been mentioned to my knowledge. That said, it's very possible after doing CPR on the plane, and continuing CPR, plus ACLS protocol once landing & transferring her into EMS care, they were able to restore a pulse on her. However, just restoring a pulse isn't always enough, especially if the patient is hypoxic/anoxic for more than a few minutes. Carrie likely had diffuse cerebral hypoxia, which causes neuronal cell death and eventually hypoxic brain injury or brain death. So likely, even if they were able to restore a pulse, her brain was without oxygenation for too long and she would have never recovered. You can keep a body "alive" & the heart beating indefinitely on life support, but once "brain death" occurs, it's time to "pull the plug," which is what, I'm sure, happened to Carrie: even if her heart was beating, there was no chance of recovery due to diffuse hypoxic/anoxic cerebral injury. RIP to Carrie & her mother, Debbie--two funny, witty, talented broads.

[quote] then complained of breathlessness?

That was Kelly Osbourne.

R36 Best explanation yet. The reports were 15 minutes from when the pilot reported an emergency landing to arrival at the gate then another 15 minutes with the first responders before they restored a pulse. So it was waaay too long to hope for recovery.

[quote] Does anyone know if Carrie was flying first class or coach? I'm serious.

It's been reported she was in row 2.

United flies a 3-class Boeing 777 between LHR and LAX.

Rows 1-2 are First Class

Rows 6-10 are Business Class

Rows 19-46 are Coach

So it looks like she was in First Class. I've flown in First Class on that plane and, while very nice, it is not terribly private. I'm surprised she wasn't on British Airways AIrbus A380 in a First Suite

OMG I had no idea Cinnabon tweeted such a crass "tribute."

Maybe...

Or.......

Is it bad that I thought it was cute and witty?

I didn't think it was that bad. I think with these things, it's better to be on the safe side though than to try to be cutesy or whatever they were going for.

I thought steve martin's tweet was FINE though - - the SJWs were going crazy over that.

Perhaps Carrie would have thought the Cinnabon tweet funny given her sense of humor.

I think Carrie would have loved that tweet. We live in an era where some people (who are never actually the "offended" group) are looking to get offended over shit.

Save your energy for our real enemies, America elected Trump, there are plenty of them out there.

What r44??? Why. I cannot imagine how that could be remotely offensive. In fact my sister posted this about George Michael "He was sex on legs to teenage me and then a warm, kind, generous, talented man I always rooted for." Which is basically the same message as Steve's tweet.

R46 I think the Cinabbon and Steve Martin freak outs are why they hate us. It plays right to the Trump supporters who think liberals, sorry lib-ruls- are pc killjoys and supporting women's rights means you can never say a woman is beautiful and have to deny basic biological truths.

I know R47 - I can't even summarize their "offense" in this post bc it's so nauseatingly annoying and PC... but if you google it you can read the replies to his tweet & the safe spaces that were invaded.

Oh and side note - of course it's ok to call a man "sex on legs" - but I don't want to even get into that pissing match...

R38, why was she brain dead though if they started CPR on the plane? I thought CPR was meant to keep oxygen flowing through the body until they can restart the heart. What is the point of CPR then?

Honestly r50? Not much. If your heart stops beating in a hospital and your receive proper CPR right away you have an 11% chance of survival. If you are anywhere else it would be a 'miracle case'. In Carrie's case even if she was getting textbook perfect CPR it would never oxygenate her organs to the point of preventing brain damage. 4 minutes is the magic number. After that brain tissue dies.

Unfortunatly the first system of heart disease/stroke/pulmonary embolism is often sudden death. And it's the best way to go but nobody wants to go at 60. It you are still around at 85 you would pay for a sudden death. The alternatives are not pleasant. The actual moment of death is normally peaceful but it's getting to that point that's the bitch.

R50, I'm not R38, but I'm 36, so I can perhaps offer some insight: CPR (cardiopulmonary resuscitation) can provide enough oxygenation to the brain--if they are both giving rescue breaths & chest compression--in some situations, but even then chances aren't great for caridac arrest. Plus, there has been a more recent, recommended move from CPR to CCR: cardio-cerebral resuscitation, which does not include rescue breathing into the lungs, but only chest compression to keep the heart pumping blood to the brain, with the idea that the blood in the body is already sufficiently oxygenated that, if it reaches the brain, it's enough to prevent hypoxia. The idea being: stopping chest compression to administer rescue breaths is wasting precious time by not keeping the heart pumping. However, CCR is ideal in a one-on-one situation where one person witnesses another collapse in cardiac arrest; if there is more than one person to perform chest compression and another to administer rescue breaths, like there would be on a plane full of people, I'd stick with the CPR over CCR. That said, it seems it was at least a full 15 minutes, perhaps more, from the time Carrie collapsed until they landed to administer epinephrine by EMS (if there was none on the plane). We don't have the full story so it's hard to provide anymore than hypothesis. If CCR was performed over CPR, and there were no rescue breaths, I'm sure 15 minutes, even with fully oxygenated blood, is enough to cause irreversible hypoxia.

Plus, it's been reported Carrie likely suffered a massive myocardial infarction (heart attack) prior to going into cardiac arrest. If true, rather than just dropping from sudden cardiac arrest/death, with an MI--depending on the location of the embolism--the ischemia/necrosis (tissue death due to blood flow blockage) of the heart muscle would have further complicated matters. I just don't think, unfortunately, there was much hope for her even with prompt medical attention. From the sounds of it, the MI she suffered was just too devastating for any significant recovery.

Wow - I never knew those paddles were only to correct arrhythmia and couldn't affect a heart that wasn't beating at all. I think about 100 TV show scenes need to be rewritten. There was a huge push to get those in malls, airports, etc... and it sounds like they aren't even that useful.

Did I read your post correctly?

That is correct r53. defibrillator so if you're not fibrillating they cannot de it! The TV shows are indeed wrong. CCR/CPR is also a rather gentle, easy procedure with near instantaneous resuscitation on TV. In reality it's draining work physically and emotionally, 1.5 minutes is usually the max you can do it before switching and we often crack ribs especially in very thin or elderly patients. And 90% + patients pass soon after even if we get a pulse.

R53: Yes, that is correct, you read my post correctly. But having AEDs (automated external defibrillators) *are* important to have in malls, airports, schools, etc., because people have myocardial infarction (heart attack) and other cardiac events which cause heart arrhythmia but not cardiac arrest/asystole/PEA--and in those cases, they are lifesaving. An AED will actually tell you, if the person is in asystole/PEA, *do not* administer a shock, perform CPR; they talk to you and tell you if defibrillation/shocking the heart is indicated. As I said in my post at R36, the ACLS treatment for asystole/PEA is CPR plus epinephrine. Then, *if* you get a pulse back, it very well might not be a normal sinus rhythm and could be ventricular fibrillation, pulseless ventricular tachycardia, etc., which *can* be defibrillated/cardioversion into, hopefully, sinus rhythm. But if there is no pumping of the heart, no electrical contraction, with asystole, then there is nothing to shock into rhythm.

So it would be safe to conclude that if you have the misfortune of having a cardiac arrest, no matter where you are, your chances are pretty slim of coming back? The statistics cited do not support a great outcome regardless of the medical or non-medical attention received.

It's semantics. You're not "dead" until declared so by a doctor and a death certificate is issued. Until then, you're merely "presumed dead" - even if there's been no heartbeat for a week. They used to teach that to cub reporters early on -- no one dies until they're "pronounced" -- so an Johnny could, for all intents and purposes, be dead the moment his car hits the guardrail at 2pm. But since an EMT can't declare you dead in that state, he "died" at 330, the time the ER Dr pronounced him dead. In this case, I really doubt Carrie Fisher "died" on the plane and had a sheet pulled over her and wasn't pronounced for four days. I think it's more likely she had a massive coronary, aneurysm or other incident, stopped breathing, was revived, but not soon enough to avoid massive trauma.

All I have to say is that you cannot be admitted -- placed into to a hospital bed, if you're dead.

If you arrived DOA, it will take a doctor to determine it.

If so, you will not be admitted to a hospital bed.

I think R57) Called it with this statement:

[quote]I think it's more likely she had a massive coronary, aneurysm or other incident, stopped breathing, was revived, but not soon enough to avoid massive trauma.

Her seat will become a makeshift memorial.

[quote]The body was displayed in the room.

Yeah, but is it art?

[quote][italic]R10 said:[/italic]What is the tail number?

[quote][italic]R16 said:[/italic] Every aircraft has a number on the tail. In the industry it is referred to as the "ship number."

*facepalm*

Lemme guess, R16 is an asspie?

If she'd died on the plane it would have been apparent to most of the passengers: There's an immediate evacuation of the bowels upon death. The stench would have been vomit-inducing.

FNP, thanks for the information.

A question.

Are there any symptoms before an event like cardiac arrest in the days prior? For example, would a person feel fatigue, maybe a general feeling of something not being quite right, low energy, feeling moody... I guess I wonder if the body itself can signal such a catastrophic event.

My brother died suddenly and the autopsy showed he had suffered from (undiagnosed) cardiomegaly. He was feeling tired for a long time, and there was considerate weight loss. He was a casual smoker, but probably drank a bit too much. He was in his early 30s.

R63, a lot of times, it goes undiagnosed. I had a friend whose brother had this as well, and he died in his early 40s.

Thanks, R64.

I don't think that's always true R62. My father fell over stone dead from a massive heart attack. They took him to the hospital to pronounce him dead and gave us his clothes, he didnt crap himself. His clothes were slightly damp because he died in the rain. My brother said that Dad was only dead for a few minutes but looked like he had been dead for hours because he was such a deep blue.

Carrie was so blue that day

[quote]There's an immediate evacuation of the bowels upon death.

Strange but true. That's why death row inmates are required to insert an enormous cotton plug in their anuses just prior to execution. No one wants to deal with the mess.

R61 No. A 777 captain fuckface.

As a licensed Dr. Fuckface, I take issue with your comment, r69.

You wouldn't want me bandying about your vocation of realtor, decorator, and steamroom bottom.

Let's focus on poor dead orphan Carrie.

R67 you are fucking EVIL!!

Good one R70

[quote] Carrie was so blue that day

I like blue.

Hey R63. R64 pretty much already answered you, but since you asked me directly, I wanted to reply: sometimes yes, sometimes no. Cardiomegaly (abnormal enlargement of the heart), specifically, is often undiagnosed due to being asymptomatic or having very vague symptoms. Sometimes the symptoms can be dependent upon the causative etiology: cardiomyopathy, left ventricular hypertrophy, congestive heart failure, hypertension, aortic stenosis, autoimmune disease, drug usage, etc.

If cardiomegaly isn't asymptomatic (it is often only found during autopsy), the symptoms can include heart palpitations, peripheral edema, shortness of breath, chest pain, fatigue, etc., which can also be the symptoms of 100 different diagnoses. However, if a patient presents with any of these symptom clusters, an ECG and chest x-ray would likely reveal the cardiomegaly, though cardiomegaly itself on an x-ray isn't pathognomonic (indicating one particular disease) and the underlying cause would need to be identified.

However, if the patient only presents with a vague symptom or two, like fatigue & leg swelling, the person might not even seek medical attention, writing it off as something innocuous; and if s/he does, the clinician might not even consider cardiomegaly as the cause. There is a saying in medicine: When you hear hoofbeats, look for horses, not zebras; meaning look for the most obvious/common causes of symptoms; don't go looking for a pheochromocytoma just because someone has heart palpitations. Hope this answers your question & my apologies about your brother. Apologize in advance for any typos, I'm on vacation this week & my brain isn't quite on-point, yet.

You people are deplorable

FNP @R74 et al: Thank you for med-splaining to me the reason why the AED informs you as to whether or not to deliver a shock.

I have used it quite a few times, but I did not fully understand WHY one would not administer the shock.

Poor Debbie. It's not necessarily tragic when an 84 year-old dies, but to have spent her last five days despairing the sudden loss of her daughter and then suffering a grief-induced stroke was indeed tragic. No child would ever dream of such an awful scenario for their elderly parent.

FNP/R74, you are being really nice taking time to answer during your week off. Thank you so much. I will save your answer for the next time I wonder about my brother's fate.

R78: You're very welcome, it's my pleasure. But I wouldn't torture yourself too much over your brother's death (easier said than done, I know, especially for someone in their 30s). Truly, cardiomegaly is often only found during autopsy because it can provide little to no symptoms or warnings. And depending on the cause & severity, the treatment may just be medication, up to & including, CABG (coronary artery bypass graft), pacemaker/implantable cardioverter-defibrillator, LVAD (left ventricle assist device) and lastly, heart transplantation. Without knowing any details or medical history, your brother probably also suffered sudden cardiac arrest/death like Carrie Fisher, or possibly a massive thromboembolism and never even saw it coming or knew what happened.

However, I must urge you: if you haven't/do not regularly, see your PCP and request a chest x-ray based on your brother's cause of death; having an immediate family member with cardiomyopathy/cardiomegaly likely increases your susceptibility of it. Cardiomegaly is often caused by dilated cardiomyopathy or hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, the latter of which is usually inherited, caused by a gene mutation in some of the proteins of the heart muscle. So if you haven't already, please get yourself checked/tested.

You are correct. My brother's death was instant.

I happen to have a mild mitral valve prolapse, so I've had ultrasounds done of my heart. So far so good.

I also had a cardiac stress test done - physical one, on a treadmill - when I was in my mid 30s.

My cardiologist recommended check-ups every five years or so. (And said I could continue running, but to stay away from marathons.)

Hope you have a good rest this week!

They're not dead til they're warm and dead

I doubt they would have a medication crash cart on a plane. Those things have to be checked to make sure drugs are updated, and if they're expired, the drugs need to be discarded and new ones ordered. I just don't see airlines doing that. Plus, there's such a big chance that someone inexperienced at codes would give the wrong medication during the hubub.

R82 We don't have a crash cart onboard, but we do have an enhanced medical kit which can only be accessed by medical personnel.

It does contain a number of meds including epinephrine.

What about a laryngoscope and an ET tube?

FYI, my friends and I figured out years ago that CPR protocols change every few years so that

1.) People who write CPR protocols can keep their jobs going ("research has shown precordial thump is good. Now it's bad! Now it's good again. Further testing is necessary --by us!")

2.) All those CPR instructors and health care personnel have to pay to get updated on their basic and advanced lifesaving cpr skills

3) Because if they came up with the perfect CPR, people would only have to certify once. And that would wipe out a whole multi billion dollar a year industry.

I worked at one of the top NY hospitals for years and we did not have to certify in CPR because if certification was required, the hospital had to pay for it. Instead, they had us go to the inservice room and spend two hours once every two years doing basic CPR. . They did not certify us and did not require advanced lifesaving CPR (ACLS) if we worked in a critical care setting.

If we wanted advanced skills, we had to find an agency who provided classes in it, pay upfront and spend two days doing the course. We had to take the course on our own time off and the hospital did not reimburse us. Of course, they wouldn't consider people for certain jobs without ACLS, but it was never a written requirement. ("ACLS preferred" or "ACLS a plus.")

Were there SNAKES ON THE PLANE? I hear this can be quite upsetting! I saw a Documentary with Samuel L Jackson........

Maybe she tried to get those motherfucking snakes off that motherfucking plane.

Hey... remember when the internet was fun?

Trivia games

Memes like badger badger, badger; snakes on a plane; numa numa; all of your base belong to us; hide yo wife

Hard to believe there was fun before the net was turned into a right wing junkyard by Russians and their ilk

R85: I don't think you and your friends are too far off the mark. I think "they" currently say precordial thump still isn't recommended for lay-people, but if you know how to properly do it, and it's a last ditch effort, it's certainly not going to hurt anything. When I worked in ED/trauma medicine as an RN, I maintained current ACLS and PALS certifications, but now that I work in family & community medicine as a Certified Registered Nurse Practitioner, I don't bother, nor does my hospital system require it. I don't get many patients in cardiac distress, and if we do, we call 911/EMS for hospital transport; of course, the paramedics are ACLS certified so they can deal with it. For my current profession, it's not really worth the time, attention & money. If I was an FNP in the ED, perhaps even urgent care, or acting as a hospitalist in critical/intensive care medicine, then that would be different.

R86 = Trump voter

Recovery after "death", Fabrice Muamba. Sad for Carrie, and sad that Debbie had to lose Carrie and not have a peaceful death. RIP both. .

R8 you are fuckd up ,so much disrespect asshole

[quote]If she'd died on the plane it would have been apparent to most of the passengers: There's an immediate evacuation of the bowels upon death.

This simply is not true. It can happen, but it usually happens over some time after death. After an electrocution which sends shock waves throughout the body, then yes, it can happen, because that is a lot of "unnatural" energy flowing through the body.

[quote] If she'd died on the plane it would have been apparent to most of the passengers: There's an immediate evacuation of the bowels upon death.

Nope.

Bagged quite a few and checked them into the Feet First Motel and this is not true.

This is all so tragic and sad.

Wonder if George Lucas owns the rights to Princess Leah Starship Strokout action figure.

Dead three years now...

Miss you, Carrie.

I thought the final cause of death was that thing in which you stop breathing in your sleep...

^ Grandma seizure, R98?