Gay people who use the word "queer" to describe gays

Fuck off, queer.

I find it even more strange when straights use queer to describe gays. Sometimes they even consider themselves queer so maybe that's a good thing??!! My straight woman friend considers herself a part of the queer community. Who am I to say she's not?!

Queer is often times the last word gays here before a gay basher kills them.

The DL posters that get so enraged that some people like using the word queer alway amuses me. Probably because I work in a university setting where queer is pretty commonplace.

[quote]My straight woman friend considers herself a part of the queer community. Who am I to say she's not?!

This is where things get weird for me. I remember Zach Wahls, that Iowa guy raised by two moms says he is part of our community, he was born into it. I agreed with him.. But when straight people say shit like that there needs to be a damn valid justification, and for most there is not.

So "queer" is academic and hateful, R4?

"Queer" is scholarly AND hateful. It is high class and low class. It is sophisticated and trashy.

I've only known of the word "queer" to be used in a reclaiming sense and haven't experienced it being used in the old fashioned derogatory way but I don't like it because, to me, it feels like a weak, non-committal, nebulous term. Which is fine if that's how vague or ever-changing your sexuality is but mine is not. Not bi, not fluid, not pan. I'm homosexual not queer.

Queer is inclusive and radical. Gay is white, exclusive and assimilationist.

Why is that R8?

It's "inclusive" because it has no real, defined, agreed uponmeaning.

Not as bad as the ones who use female pronouns for men or refer to them as "Miss Colton Haynes" or similar.

But, why is gay white? Did you answer that R10? I have an IQ of 5. Sorry.

Sorry R12, R10 is me. I should've signed.

Why is gay white?

Fuck the politically correct Millennial generation.

The reappropriated "queer" used by a gay person is not derogatory. I hate the prissy, soft, uptight queers.

Wasn't the title of the show "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" a hope to take back the word and make it less hateful?

Because someone didn't get laid, R14.

I'm eagerly awaiting Fluff Po to announce their new name for Black Voices, N***er Voices!

I prefer the term "Quaint".

black people use the "N" word harmlessly with each other all the time.

It's not the millennials who're objecting to the word "queer", R15 , they're the ones saying it. They think it's cooler than saying "lesbian" or "gay" or "bi".

That's because they think they'll retain their straight privilege if they call themselves queer, R21.

[quote]I hate the prissy, soft, uptight queers.

You hate all gays. Be honest.

Lol, your manic rush to blame millennials for everything is hilarious r15.

As others have said, millenials are most comfortable with the queer identifier.

I hadn't realised that before but now that you mention it, R22 , I think you've nailed it. They get to keep the status of straightness while posturing as adventurous and edgy.

So let me get this right:

Those of you who like the word 'queer' find it 'radical' and 'inclusive'. You're not bothered that it was a term used almost exclusively to abuse and denigrate gay men. You're not concerned that it was often the last word gay men heard as they were beaten i to unconsciousness, or even to death. You feel that you can 'reclaim' and repurpose it, and that it's fine if people who are not gay or lesbian use it about themselves, even if they are heterosexual.

Presumably you're also very forthright in telling trans people that they must NOT object to the word 'tranny' and that it's also fine if frat boy heterosexuals use the word 'tranny' when they crossdress for laughs. And presumably, you'd be fine if cutting-edge Asian or Irish kids started calling themselves n*****s, because they would also be reclaiming and repurposing the word. And it's fine when it's used by people who were never on the receiving end of the word as part of a violent assault.

You bunch of two-faced hypocritical bullying homophobes. Fuck yourselves.go fuck yourselves.

I love using the term "queer"!

I'll use any words I like!

Who died and left YOU king of the fags, OP?

I've heard "queer" being used in a positive, self-affirming way for over twenty years. Didn't we used to say "we're here, we're queer, get used to it!"? It's definitely used in academia, and by progressive socially conscious gays and allies. That said, I personally prefer "gay," but I accept that others prefer "queer," especially in a social justice context.

R26, I was just about to respond that I think some folks use queer because it can be more inclusive. I had not thought about it the way you explained and I remain torn on this issue. On the one hand if a term is accepted and used to include a wider group of people into the gay community why can't we embrace queer? On the other, I see that it is a word with deeper negative connotations to some and perhaps my flip attitude that queer can be all inclusive is naive. I guess this means we are back to LGBTMNOPQRSTUV . . . which isn't any better.

"LGB" with "and the rest" sung Gilligan's Island style.

Aside from the fact that I think "queer" is hateful (and is still used as a hateful term by some people), I also consider it too expansive -- for the same reason I don't use or identify with "LGBTQIAA++++" I also don't use the synonym "queer"; I'm not bisexual, I'm not a lesbian, I definitely have nothing in common with trans or even approve of it, so I simply refuse to consider myself "queer" -- I'm gay or homosexual, full stop.

[quote]LGBTQIAA++++

Gays have become a computer programming language.

[quote] On the one hand if a term is accepted and used to include a wider group of people into the gay community why can't we embrace queer?

Why do you want gays (and lesbians) who are neither gays nor lesbians?

Gay sounds like a chintz sofa.

I'm from new York, it's pronounced KAAAweer

Queer sounds like you're too cowardly to say you're gay or lesbian, or too pretentious to say you're bi or straight.

I resent you people using that word. That's our word for making fun of you! We need it!!

First of all there was 'gay'; the lesbians felt this made them invisible (they had a bit of a point), so it became G&L; 'queer' was introduced as a replacement word to cover everyone, but hardly anyone used it, so it just hung around uselessly, until the academy picked it up for an essentially futile area of research that became 'queer studies' - not anything interesting or useful, like l&g history or literary studies, but bizarre fantasy interpretations ('Queering Milton's Paradise Lost and such nonsense), while also catastrophically merging with gender studies. Now it's been adopted as a weird identity of a sort of heterosexual with benefits. Meanwhile it remained the insult of choice for mealy-mouthed homophobes.

Don't forget about 'queerphobia' instead of 'homophobia'

Guys, I came under heated attack for using "queer" harmlessly on Youtube, by a bunch of MILLENNIALS.

R32, R37, and R39 are correct.

What the F is up with straight people identifying with the Q in LGBTQ? Why is there even a 'Q' in there? What does it mean if not gay/lesbian/bisexual? Does anyone know?

It wasn't used where I live. The words were poofter and dyke. Some of us were& are comfortable to co-op and use positively but some of us retain instinctual pain at hearing the words used even with positive intent, so we're careful to be sensitive to that fact. Meaning I wouldn't say "poof" to anyone but a friend who's genuinely fine with it.

Wrong, r26.

You put words in our mouths and thoughts in our heads that aren't there, because you're dishonest.

Of course most people are bothered by anti-gay atrocities. It's being queer that we're comfortable with. Don't confuse the issue. Don't argue with non-sequiturs. Showing haters that we're proud of what they hate; that there's nothing TO hate is GOOD and EMPOWERING.

Continuing to give words more power than they deserve is pathetic.

And no, straight people shouldn't use the word "queer" and it does offend me when they use it. I am not r4 and "Zach Wahls" should only be calling himself queer if his own sexuality is bent -- if he's having sex with other men or crossing gender identities. Gay moms is not enough -- his sexuality is straight.

Of course white kids shouldn't call each other or blacks the "N" word. You've got to be the prissiest idiot living under a rock if you haven't heard that you can't use the slur unless you ARE the slur yourself. You are totally out-of-it.

But you're right about trannies. I DO call trans people "tranny" unless it offends them in my presence. Most I've known didn't mind the word "tranny," and I don't, because IT'S NOT DEROGATORY.

We need umbrella terms for when we're describing related groups. Both "queer" and "tranny" describe bigger groups than just "gay" or "transexual" and we need those descriptions.

I'm not going to type out "LGBTLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ!"

Why do *we* need an umbrella term to cover more than GLB? The T is an umbrella of its own half the time anyway and the rest are just GLB or straight.

'Sister' is more PC.

Queer was a bad word when I grew up, but right after high school people started using it describe themselves, especially butch lesbians. Then I started seeing it at clubs and clinics. Fliers would say things like "queer youth support".

R45, GLB...is there a reason why you don't like the L to come first? It seems needlessly petty.

Btw, I didn't include the I because I've never seen evidence that people with that medical condition *want* it grouped with sexuality or transsexuals or transvestism.

Haha, R33, you can guarantee that it's object oriented.

Right, r49. All the Intersex people I have encountered online don't want anything to do with the Ls, the Gs, the Bs, and, most especially, the Ts. They REALLY hate the Ts.

No real intent behind it, LGB is all good with me.

Sorry, Divide-and-Conquer Conservative, regardless of political unification, opinions or orientation, all of society needs a FACTUAL DESCRIPTOR for all the people whose sexual orientation differs from the gender norms of the majority.

Straight people can say "atypical sexuality" or some other, polite euphemism. I'm going to say queer because I'm queer and you other queers will know what I'm talking about!

"Sister" implies that gay men are emulating women. We can't emulate women because we're men--esp. in the bedroom where there are two dicks and two prostate glands involved. Thinking that you're emulating a woman just because you're flamboyant or getting fucked in the ass is sexist and does nothing but reinforce sexual stereotypes.

Queer wouldn't be so bad a term if it wasn't appropriated by a bunch of non-queers, I [italic]guess[/italic], but there are too many straight people who have never felt real sexual-orientation based discrimination included in that giant patchwork quilt of an umbrella-term for it to really mean anything--and because it doesn't mean anything in this sense, again, people can retain their straight privilege. It's sad.

Anal is sexist now?

What about all the straight guys and gals who get pegged in the anus?

LGB already covers *sexual orientation*. But really, people have explained how they feel and what they think. If you then choose to be inconsiderate, it's on you. You go ahead, do what you want, and I'll go about things my way.

I guess I could be called an eldergay, and I won't ever use the "Q" word. I find it no more inoffensive now than I did in the days when it was the main pejorative hurled at us. I once worked with a rabid homophobe who used the word at every opportunity. He felt that because gays called themselves queers, it was quite alright for him to do it too, and he delighted in it.

No one would ever say nigger in polite society, but it's now perfectly fine to say queer.

No. No it isn't.

For the most part, we gays seem highly intelligent, which is why, for the life of me, I can't understand how any of us willingly give permission to our enemies to use this hateful word against us.

The Q Word. And ever shall it be thus.

I know R57. It's also funny when people refuse to spell out racial slurs like "n-gger" or the "n-word" but completely spell out anti-gay slurs.

LGB is all there should ever be in that umbrella. T has NOTHING to do with sexual orientation. Q just doesn't even mean anything (unless it does? can someone please explain the difference between Q and LGB?). Asexuality is something else. Intersex again has nothing to do with any of this.

I'm so sick of this blind acceptance of this nomenclature by so many gay people.

R55--that was more about conflating anal and vaginal sex, which are obviously completely different.

If ever called "queer" by a heterosexual I shall simply reply "fuck off, breeder". We shall see how they like them apples.

[quote]First of all there was 'gay'; the lesbians felt this made them invisible

They are gay, though. They're the ones insisting on separatism.

Why did you perverts have to take such a lovely word like "gay" and makes so sick and disgusting?

Why does Linda have to be white and from crackerville, R64?

I think we ALL know why R64.

At some point Q stood for Questioning. Or is there now more than one Q?

To me it's the more the merrier. More fun. Remember when being gay was about bonding with like minded guys and "what doesn't kill you make you stronger" empowerment? Now it's trolls with "oh, there was this time where I was called queer and gaybashed now I carry this terrible burden with me and I am triggered whenever someone says it!" whining trying to cause a problem where there is none. For decades the word queer was used for Pro Gay Rights events, but that should be erased because, bullies!

That should read : I think we ALL know why R65.

"Queer sounds like you're too cowardly to say you're gay or lesbian, or too pretentious to say you're bi or straight."

FTW

We're here we're queer !

Don't say queer, it burns!

Get used to it, OP!

I thought the Q in LGBTQ meant Queer. It means questioning??

The Q can stand for questioning OR queer. Just like gay is synonymous with queer. 74 threads to figure this out folks. Really?!

R74 doesn't care. Use whatever words you want. He'll come a runnin'.

Can it stand for quintessential? I've always felt that it was a very gay word.

I like quintessential, R76. But the only "quintessentials" here are L and G. The rest are tack-ons.

I swear to CHRIST...all thisLBGTQIQDORUMVFJRLifdsvvfg_____..... . . .is making me SERIOUSLY consider whether or not to go BACK into the closet.

When gay men are increasingly being represented by blue haired, septum pierced "queer"non-binaries and "lesbians" with penises who want to be referred to as, well,whatever the fuck they want to be referred to at any given moment, then I don't really want to be seen as a member of that alliance. And I REALLY don't want to be associated with the growing absurdity, strident authoritarianism, cultural Marxism and MADNESS.

People need to stop being fucking Pussies and stop worrying about words. Gays deserve every fucking stereotype having to do with being a whimp and a pussy. Grow a set of balls and man up.

[quote]man up.

We are by actually talking about it instead of acting like the dickless closet case or complacent-kirby who just ALLOWS everyone to talk all over them and treat them like a punching bag. Fuck that shit.

And you know what R79 : straight people deserve every fucking stereotype because the majority of them can't fucking survive outside of relationship. Take away their split income and THEY'RE NOTHING.

Totally agree with R78 and R80! Fuck this shit!

er. "walk" all over them.

I was in a hipster/SJW/"Don't Profile Muslims" bookstore today, and as I was paying for my tea, I noticed a sign saying they welcomed all the various communities, including, among others, both "gay" and "queer," and so I asked the clerk what the "queer" was all about. She said it is "a term that fosters inclusion." I told her what I thought of it, calling it "the Q word" rather than saying it again. She was probably 20. She started talking about how she "had heard" it meant "something bad" years ago, but that she was quite certain it did not have the same connotation today.

I told her it did for me, that it will always be "the Q word" to me.

The OP must be a very young, overly sensitive queer.

Good for you R83.

R84 must type with his anal hairs.

No, he uses two fingers but only after putting on his bifocals, R86.

"Queer" looks too much like "queef".

Merriam Webster defines "queer" as:

a : worthless, counterfeit [html removed] b : questionable, suspicious 2 a : differing in some odd way from what is usual or normal b (1) : eccentric, unconventional (2) : mildly insane : touched c : absorbed or interested to an extreme or unreasonable degree : obsessed d (1) often disparaging : homosexual (2) sometimes offensive : gay 4b 3 : not quite well

I mean, do we really want to be associated with that?. I certainly don't.

You see, I think a LOT of members of the social justice activist "queer" contingent on some level DO understand how troubled they are and weirdly embrace the idea of themselves being mentally ill. I think it is an attempt by them to validate and destigmatize emotional problems and personality disorders. Thus, "ableism. " You even have some college campuses trying to outlaw the word "crazy". To them it's YOU that has to change and adapt to THEM.

I don't begrudge them trying to work out their own egodystonias and dysphorias but I'll be FUCKED if they try to take me down the rabbit hole with them.

R83, I would have pressed her further on the meaning of 'queer' in the 'gay' vs. 'queer' context. A term that fosters inclusion? So who exactly does that include?

Still not getting a straight answer.

I don't really pay so close attention to a word that was very much in common use a decade or 2 ago. I kinda like the vibe it evokes. I no longer use queer in my descriptions of anything gay, but I don't take personal offense over it's use.

Being called a fag or faggot by a straight person however will get the user of the slur.. cussed the fuck out. I'm older and remember when queer was an accepted term for homosexuals. In a couple of years homo might be an unacceptable, non P C. word. There's bigger issues facing LGB folks today than a formerly fashionable/or not word.

We knew a fabulous eldersister who was known as 'Pearl'....

Pearl owned a flower shop in Chicago but eventually lost it due to her serious boozette problem.

Pearl liked to address other sisters as 'Marcia'.

As in when she once took a sip of an extra extra strong martini and gagged: "Oh Marcia.....I think I just lost an ovary"!!!

R90 Now that you mention it, I did ask her. I forgot. She got busy with my tea transaction and doing something for another customer and never really answered me.

I don't understand the leftists who yell at us homos for not wanting to be called "queer."

it doesn't matter if non-gays or other gays approve or not, think we're old and stupid, or whatever.

one of the most basic tenets of liberalism is that people define themselves. if blacks want us to call them African American, then we call them African American. If they want to refer to one another as "nigga" but do not want whites to do the same, then so be it. End of story. It's their group. It's their name. It's their choice.

The same is true with gays and lesbians such as myself and obviously many others who DO NOT WANT TO BE CALLED QUEER.

Why is it hateful to refer to a bio male in a dress as "he" but it's not hateful to REFER TO GAYS BY A SLUR?

I'm not interested in being called a queer. It's hateful and the definition of the word is awful.

Gays who use the word "queer" to self describe take ownership of the word to keep others from using it against us. All minority groups do the same thing with the epithets others use against them. You should have noticed that straight people who dislike homosexuals rarely use the word "queer" any longer. Most of them use "fag" or "faggot" instead. "Queer" went out of fashion with most straight homo haters many years ago.

[quote]Gays who use the word "queer" to self describe take ownership of the word to keep others from using it against us.

I'm gay, and I do not want to be called queer.

Now what?

Are you going to tell me I'm wrong for not wanting to be called queer?

Are you going to call me queer despite my preference?

Do I have a choice in what people call me?

Why is it your decision what I am called?

What about straight people who call themselves queer? Doesn't that render the term meaningless? Queer is not synonymous with gay.

So if queers are straight and straights aren't fired or beaten or killed for being straight then why is there a need for queer rights?

R97, you're just another reactionary and overly sensitive homo. Most likely relatively young. If some gay person refers to you or other homos as "queers" it's not like some straight guy hollering "HEY YOU FUCKING QUEERS" at you. But you're so hell bent on not being offended when you're not being offended at all you can't see that.

So quite frankly, no one really cares whether you like being referred to as a "queer" or not, you big ol' baby.

R98, you care.

The only thing that's annoying about the "queer" thing is that it isn't very "take back the night" like what black people did with the n-word, because it isn't reduced to being used solely by "queer" people and determined to be an epithet when used by straight people. I know that you can't reduce race and sexuality down to a common denominator, but in this context, the usage of the epithets--one would think--should be similar. It's just not the case. However, I'd say that the majority of the people who use it now are not doing so in a negative manner. I'll just brush it off in those cases. But in cases where I'm being called a "stupid queer" by some asshole, I'm generally going to say something back.

r98, please answer my question:

why is it ok for straights to call me "queer" despite my aversion to the SLUR, but not ok for me to refer to a transwoman as a "he" despite the fact that bio sex cannot be changed?

you do realize that it's illegal & punishable by fine to misgender a T in NYC, right?

your determination to ignore & override MY WILL is proof of how dangerously misguided & selfish you are.

I don't care what YOUR JUDGMENT of my preference is. It makes no difference if you think the word is harmless & acceptable. I think it's vulgar. It's a slur. It means be abnormal and I'm NOT abnormal.

so stick your meaningless judgments up your snowflake ass and go wank off in your safe space. or better yet get a job.

Queer doesn't describe gays OP. It describes gays lesbians Trans bi and what have you in the LGBTQAAPRT alphabet soup.

R101,

Make no mistake - you are abnormal, but I can assure you that it isn't because you're gay but definitely because of your hissy fit over the word 'queer' while telling someone else to go rock in a fetal position in their safe space.

oh, boo hoo, r103. you really really hurt my feelz. mission accomplished *eye roll*

you're obviously a dumbass. I pity you.

Like I maintained, R104. Abnormal.

if being an asshole like you is "normal" then I will gladly accept your personal judgment of being abnormal

now answer my question. why is ok for straights to call me queer, but no ok for me to call men in wigs men?

i don't care wtf they call me al long as i'm sucking their dick.

You are indeed R107.

R102, if "queer" also includes gay then why does the "Queer" Voices section of the Huffington Post have individual pages for lesbians, bisexuals and transgender but not for gay males?

Because gay men are privileged shitlords, r109. Please educate yourself!!!

if "queer" includes gays, L G B T Q is redundant.

It's like saying Gay Gay Bi Trans Gay.

queer, isn't it? just like us fagg ots

For a while, I thought I was gay. And maybe I was for some of that time – there’s nothing wrong with being gay. But I’m definitely not now.

I thought I was gay because I thought I was a man, and I thought I was only and always attracted to other men.

I don’t know what gender I am anymore, if any. I knew before coming to that particular realization that I’m also not only, and haven’t always been, attracted to men. Additionally, I realized I don’t know what exactly “attraction” means.

I know for certain I’m not heterosexual – without a stable gender, I’m not even sure I could be. And when I first began to have these self-revelations, I also knew that I needed space to explore all of these complications.

As I spent time figuring out what they meant, I discovered that if I must have an identification that makes sense to others who need to see me with some sort of stability, it would be “queer.”

But that’s only because, for me, “queer” inherently defies stable identification.

Queer has many different facets.

Some use it to encompass all non-heterosexual, non-cisgender identities. That’s an understandable use of the term – like I mentioned, I interpret it to be partially about giving space for exploring gender and sexuality, and including so many different groups of people demands that space, demands a challenge to stability.

Certainly a wide variety of non-heterosexual, non-cisgender folks are queer.

But though queer might cover some part of that spectrum, it is not limited to it. I am not gay nor lesbian nor bisexual nor transgender. I am not anything other than just queer.

There are people who some of you might call “straight” if you looked at them and their partners and impose genders onto them, but who are actually “queer.” And many gay, lesbian, and transgender individuals do not identify as queer.

Like plenty of the names marginalized people call themselves, queer has a fraught history of reclamation, many controversial political implications, and a universalizing aspect that is too contradictory for some.

Yet, even here at Everyday Feminism, we sometimes use gay and queer interchangeably. Not to set the two in opposition or even to say they cannot sometimes overlap, here is why I think distinguishing the two might help people who are still exploring their gender and sexuality.

1. Queer Is a Slur for Some and a Reclamation for Others

I’m not a queer historian and I’ve still got a lot to learn, so I’ll stick to the basics. Here’s what I know so far: queer literally meant just “strange” or “peculiar,” indicating a deviation from the norm. It was turned into a pejorative to describe those with non-heterosexual desires and behaviors about a century ago.

For some, there’s simply too much pain associated with the word for so many people. I understand that.

As for me, I’m all about reclamation and taking power from oppressive systems whenever and however I can.

You can’t tell me that you get to change a word with a meaning as beautiful as “peculiar” and I don’t get to take it back from you.

I’m also young and haven’t lived through the widespread use of queer as a derogatory term, so my feelings are admittedly biased.

The movement to reclaim it as an affirmation caught on relatively recently, as did queerness as a theoretical framework, or “queer theory.” Queer’s not too distant past as a slur explains a lot of the continued resistance to its use.

Queer theorists, influenced in part by the work of French philosopher Michel Foucault, usually deal with sexuality not removed from gender but simultaneously, and questioned them both. Many push back against the essentialist idea that sex and gender are different and question the limitations inherent in a binary gendered perspective.

Recognized alongside the likes of Judith Butler and Eve Sedgwick as one of the most influential queer theorist, José Esteban Muñoz explained in the book Feeling Utopia, “We have never been queer, yet queerness exists for us as an ideality that can be distilled from the past and used to imagine a future. The future is queerness’s domain.”

Queerness was a political question that asked but didn’t necessarily see answers to the questions: “What is sex anyway? What is gender? What is sexuality? Can we ever truly know?”

And some non-heterosexual, non-cisgender people choose not or have yet to invest in that political question as is their prerogative — and that’s okay, too.

2. There’s So Much Erasure of People of Color, Gender Nonconforming, Non-Binary, and Other People In “Gay” and “Queer” Spaces

As a Black person in America, my experience with gender and sexuality is going to be vastly different than a similarly situated white person. That’s all good and doesn’t mean we can’t find solidarity as we fight our different but still gendered struggles against cisheterosexism.

But that solidarity often goes one way.

Go to your mainstream “gay” publications and look at the leadership of HRC — you’d think you were looking at the Oscars.

It’s white. It’s male. It’s cisgender. It’s committed to the gender binary of only men and women existing. It’s not me.

And don’t get my started on “gay” nightclubs in any cosmopolitan city outside of an “ethnic” night. My last time at one was not only an experience of being surrounded by a sea of white faces, dancing to music to which I find no connection, and swarmed by a maleness I don’t have.

It was white faces that can’t perceive Black ones, blatant cultural appropriation, and people with no interest in recognizing my lack of maleness.

That doesn’t mean non-white, non-male, non-cisgender folks can’t find a connection in that space, or make their own spaces within it. I’m a fan of reclamation, after all, and if it were to technically describe me (it doesn’t), I maybe would embrace it differently.

I find myself in non-white, non-male, and non-cisgender affirming gay spaces often, and they are lovely. But queer spaces also provide me with something that is vitally different.

Queerness, as I said, is specifically (supposed) to give room to move outside of the narrowness that is “normal” concepts of identity. It is specifically (supposed) to embrace the vastness of difference, which would ostensibly include more than white, cisgender men.

But white supremacist cisheterosexism is invasive, and is nearly impossible to escape in the world we live in today.

It’s worth noting that queer is an English word, so the limitations of this language in defining pre-colonial nonwhite cultures and nonwhite cultures that move away from their colonized histories abound.

Those who became the prominent leaders in the movement to reclaim queerness were still predominantly white as well.

They are, however – or should be – exploring what it means to be more than just white if truly operating with a queer framework. But when that exploration is “not yet” complete, as Munoz implies it can never be, who is hurt in the meantime?

I recently had a white queer person tell me I was “taking up space” from non-binary people by claiming my identity as non-binary because I am often perceived as male.

This person could only conceive of a queer “space” that looked like what they were used to, and my Black body which they read as male could not fit even in their queer world.

Many people of color, gender non-conforming people, or non-binary folks reject labels altogether. The label fight is just not for them. Based on my understanding of queerness, I interpret even that rejection a queer action, regardless of how one is identified, and it too has great importance.

We should give room to folks to follow their journey however it comes to them (as long as it doesn’t stop others from following theirs). That is queerness, after all.

3. Gay and Queer Have Unique Relationships with the Concept of Sex

I am unashamed of sex. I have it frequently, and I love it. But my queerness is not limited to the question of sexuality.

Gayness, homosexuality, is inherently a question of sexuality. It’s not a wrong question. In fact, it’s an important question for queerness, too, which is why gay and queer are compatible. It just isn’t the only or central question.

When I thought myself gay – it was an identity that had everything to do with the gender of whom I was sexually attracted to.

But as a queer person, I don’t even know what my gender is. I don’t even know what gender is. How could I know how the gender of people I like relates to mine? How could I know if I am “homo” or “hetero” or “bi” if I’m not the same as or opposite of anyone?

My relationship with gayness was defined by what I thought I knew myself to like. But I no longer know how I know what I like. Is “liking” based on sex or intimacy? What is sex without intimacy? Intimacy without sex?

If intimacy means more to me than sex, does having intimacy with someone without having sex with them define my sexuality? Does having sex without intimacy?

What is sex?

What is intimacy?

None of those things are defined enough for me to identify in any way other than in a way that allows them to be undefined. Exploring my queerness, those are questions I ask myself every day. And maybe there is no one answer to any of them. Maybe they change from year to year or day to day and person to person. Maybe I’ll never know.

And for some people, they are defined enough to be both gay and queer in a given moment. Maybe that will change for those same people like it did for me. And if it does or doesn’t, that’s okay. That’s the peculiarity of queerness.

***

Gayness and queerness are two different things, but sometimes gayness is a part of queerness and vice-versa.

Ultimately, this language is limited, and so it follows that there are limitations to how we describe ourselves. I’m still figuring out how to describe myself.

But I wouldn’t have had the opportunity to figure that out if I didn’t know that there were other ways.

If I didn’t know that queer was different than gay. If I knew that one size didn’t and doesn’t have to fit everyone.

There are other ways – there are always other ways – for me, you, and everyone else.

Be queer, be gay, be both, be neither, but be you.

The more we expand what “being” could mean, the more this is possible.

Queer has been reclaimed in the past 20 years. Get over it, elderqueers. It's only going to get more prevalent as a neutral/positive word.

OH, GAWD r112.

Get your nose out of your fucking navel.

gender is a man-made construct based on sex stereotypes. it is meaningless jargon. it's not worth redefining the gay community and inventing a new fucking language.

ya know what? I'm glad trump won. now maybe you bitches will learn what is really important and what is really bullshit.

R116, you are free to identify as "queer". But why the need to erase the identify of males who identify as "gay". You want your identity respected but don't want to give the SAME RESPECT to others.

Is "queer" an empowered gay person? Like, "I am QUEER!".

[quote]But as a queer person, I don’t even know what my gender is. I don’t even know what gender is. How could I know how the gender of people I like relates to mine? How could I know if I am “homo” or “hetero” or “bi” if I’m not the same as or opposite of anyone?

With which you give us with a whole new reason not to want to be called "queer."

no, it's just the opposite, r119. Rather than empowering, it keeps us on the fringes.

any gay that uses it is self-loathing.

Queer is , more often than not, homophobic and anti Semitic. I'll be fucked if I'm going to identify with straight people who learnt everything they know from Trannies.

Everyday Meninism is always good for a laugh, but unfortunately a lot of idiotic straight women are being brainwashed by their mansplaining.

more like transplaning r123

oh, nevermind...same thing lol

[quote]But as a queer person, I don’t even know what my gender is. I don’t even know what gender is. How could I know how the gender of people I like relates to mine? How could I know if I am “homo” or “hetero” or “bi” if I’m not the same as or opposite of anyone?

SEX = CONCRETE

Sexual orientation relates to CONCRETE, PHYSICAL aspects of a person.

GENDER = ABSTRACT

Gender identity relates to ABSTRACT notions like men behave like this and women behave like that. All of this is tradition/culture based. None of it is physical or genetic.

If you think who you're sexually attracted to depends on gender (how you present yourself) then you don't really know what "homosexual means". Gay/Lesbian = homosexual, has nothing to do with your "gender expression" Gay = male parts for male parts/female parts for female parts; bisexual is male parts for male or female parts/female parts for male or female parts, straight is male parts for female parts and female parts for male parts. And when I say parts I mean anatomy.

If you have a pussy and you like cock exclusively, you're straight. If you have a cock and you like cocks exclusively, you're gay. There's NO SHAME in wearing clothing that would stereotypically be attributed to men and choice of clothing doesn't translate to choice of sexuality or magically change your pussy into a cock.

r125, it's kind of like trying to reason with a cult follower, isn't it?

[quote]why is it ok for straights to call me "queer" despite my aversion to the SLUR,

It all depends on how they use the term. It can be used as a form of familiarity or it can be used as a hateful epithet. Just like blacks using the term "nigga". Most straight people are not going to use the term queer because it makes them uncomfortable. What I was referring to is the usage of the term in our community, among ourselves. I see nothing wrong with one homo referring to another homo as "queer" if it's done as a form of affection.

R126 : Hyup.

R127, but you'd only use the term "queer" with other gay people who you know well and who you know aren't offended by the term, right?

Just like not all blacks are cool with the term "nigga"" even if it is other blacks using it.

[quote]Most straight people are not going to use the term queer because it makes them uncomfortable.

why would using a gay slur make straights uncomfortable but not gays?

It's a vulgar term and unacceptable for public consumption.

and yet you want us to call one another it.

you're a dipshit, and your ass got pwned here. but instead of being humble and admitting you're wrong and we're right, you just dig your precious snowflake heels in.

because "queer" is from the T & SJW arena...cultural marxists trying to control how others think and speak. fuck off.

Exactly R129

Good, R127. So now why is there a Huffington Post section named "Queer Voices" but no section for "Gay Voices"?

This would be like Huffington Post having a section called "Nigga Voices" but none for "Black Voices".

Can you see the problem?

[quote] This would be like Huffington Post having a section called "Nigga Voices" but none for "Black Voices".

R132 I burst out in laughter the moment I read that. Yes, I can see the problem all right, and it lies with that unfortunate and nonsensical comparison. Not even remotely in line with what Huff Po did with relabeling Queer Voices.

really, you burst out in laughter, r133....?

Please explain why it's a nonsensical comparison. TIA

Explain further, R133.

[quote]I see nothing wrong with one homo referring to another homo as "queer" if it's done as a form of affection.

There is no day of my life on which "queer" will be thought of as a "form of affection" by me. You are not the nomenclaturist of me, you sniveling cunt.

Queer is an umbrella term and so is n*gger. N*ggr can refer to blacks, african-americans, negroes, etc.

I vote we rename Transwomen "cunts".

It's a step up for them and validates their womanhood. It also empowers them to call themselves a sexist slur.

So we are now LGBCQ.

C = cunts or cocks

Queer is not an umbrella term

Queer is a negative word. There's no way around it

If that is true, R137, then answer the question at R109.

Because their target audience is female, R140. There is no such thing as a female gay man.

R137, queer can't be an umbrella term just in the same way that nigga can't.

This thread is triggering me, and I am not the trigger-able type.

Fuck off with this "queer" bullshit. There isn't a majority of gays who are okay with it, and if the fringe group of Ts think it's great, they can go ahead with it but they have to let EVERYONE know that it's a tranny term and not a gay one.

I only ever use the word 'queer' as a joke. Like when I'm doing a character while hanging out with friends, and I want to act like tough street trade or a dumb jock who wants to make a gay boy sniff my jock in the locker room as punishment for ogling me. It's a joke. I would never, ever be so academic/SJW/pretentious as to use that word in a positive way to describe me or any gay people.

Call me a homosexual but don't ever call me queer.

[quote] Queer is an umbrella term and so is n*gger. N*ggr can refer to blacks, african-americans, negroes, etc.

Dear god im himmel help us all. I don't even know where to begin. By that logic let's just call the Huff Po section F*ggot Voices because that's just an umbrella term for gay men, homosexual men, same-sex loving men, etc.

R144, my thoughts exactly. What the fuck is THAT logic?

Do you get any of your friends to sniff your jock, r143?

The chief editor of Queer Voices said he's fine with f*ggot

R137, you are free to identify as a queer, a f*ggot or whatever. But don't harass other people into giving up their identity as gay males.

You wouldn't harass a black person who didn't want to identify as a nigga because it is not acceptable. It not acceptable to do it to gay males either.

Don't be oppressive to other people. Show respect for other people. That's all we're asking!

how is queer antisemitic R22

This thread devolved into preaching pulpit pantie posers. It's all been so...peculiar. So QUEER.

I loved the 80's hit tune " Johnny Are You Queer Boy?"

I'm here, I'm QUEER! Deal.

I see the word and I cringe. Is it hate? Is it sophisticated? Is it both?

A lot of gay Muslims claim to be "queer." Makes it easier to sit back and not say shit while homosexuals in their homelands are stoned to death or thrown off buildings.

"Fudgepacker" sounds nice.

R152, what?

Did you want those gay Muslims calling themselves queer to run into the frontline and offer themselves up to be stoned instead? I don't get it.

Because they don't use the word "gay" or "homosexual" I guess.

[quote]Did you want those gay Muslims calling themselves queer to run into the frontline and offer themselves up to be stoned instead?

I think R152 wants them to renounce their faith.

Is that so wrong R156?

"Queer" was fine as an ironic and bratty appropriation of a slur when it was mostly used as self-description. But the glee with which smarmy "woke" straight women now use it-- often while lecturing actual gay men about this or that infraction, and sometimes even applying it to their own straight selves-- is really something else.

If it was a word that gays had reclaimed, it has now been claimed right back by straight people and it's horrible.

So, "queer" is the new goth? I'm thinking "queer" is just straight people who want to be different.

I won't use the word 'queer.' I won't even click onto the Huffpost's section called 'Queer Voices.'

Read this.

Does HuffPo have "Negro Voices"?

It's here. We're queer. Get used to it. Now move on. More important things to do.

Fuck you, R163. You do not get to decide what's acceptable for everyone else. Who the fuck are you?

Hey R163 "queer" is kinda stale now, so we'll be calling ourselves (and you, of course) "faggot". We're not going to need to consider your feelings on this because...isn't it just obvious how empowering it is for you?

I can’t put my finger on it, but there is just something so dehumanizing about the word “queer.” It’s almost like you’re alluding to something that you don’t want to just say, whereas “gay” is precise.

Kiss my queer ass, OP.

Preach, OP. I'm sick of the word queer. It's a slur and it's still used as a slur by a majority of people.

The word is synonymous with "weird". That's the problem with the word.