Does Frasier exploit gay culture in an annoying way?

Considering 3 of the 4 main male characters on the show were gay but played straight, there is something to it.

I've known straight guys who were very femme but were either so deep in the closet they didn't ping or just anomalies. But yeah, Frasier and Niles were definitely Mos.

Don't know who would take "Niles" as being straight. I always had a hard time believing he was so crazy about Daphne.

I don't know, a lot of the climbing behavior reminds me of people I've known who were children of second-wave immigrants, especially Jews (the ones who assimilated) whose parents worked hard in a shop or something and sent them to good schools.

Yeah but wasn't Frasier meant to be very WASP?

I think someone is trolling.

^But he's not old money, R5, so he doesn't fit the typical WASP trope. All the social climbing and trying to escape their backgrounds were very children of FOBs.

^*Was* very children of FOBs..

I knew Niles-sorts, and they were straight. Mostly, they were Southern.

The show completely negates the Trans experience as well!

They were from a blue-collar background - their father was a cop.

Isn't Kelsey Grammer supposedly an asshole?

The show had several guest characters where the roles were gay who were portrayed very positively where Frasier was made to look the fool.

One Frasier's mother's friend and coworker who Martin thought might have fathered Niles and Frasier because they acted more like him than Martin. He turned out to be gay and couldn't have fathered Niles and Frasier.

The other that comes to mind is the gay conductor of the symphony who Frasier befriends not knowing he is gay and just assumes they are good friends when everyone else assumes they are a gay couple.

Every gay character I can remember was portrayed in a positive light where Niles and Frasier were constantly made to look the fools.

Yeah, R13, but that's the 'text' of those parochial shows. The 'subtext' of the entire show is, here is urban effete life, with characters who'd be gaybashed if they are real but are REALLY red blooded hetero bros, because being gay is icky and limited to that hyper queens restaurant critic/loser Gil.

Also, let's face it: had Niles and Frasier been written as gay characters, it would be a show about two prissy, effete gay characters which would've sparked complaints that it's playing up the lazy stereotypes.

[quote] but are REALLY red blooded hetero bros

They were written as anything but "bros."

The mother sounded like a posh WASP who married a low WASP.

Still WASP

Frasier and Niles had to be straight so America could swallow their gayness. And please, Louise, Barbara, and Irlene, selling Niles as straight was way too much to buy. Really, they should have written Niles as a gay man, showing how similar these two brothers are, regardless of their different sexuality markers. They should have written Frasier's neighbor Cam Winston as a man who can't stop getting naked.

Please expand on the Mandrell sisters reference.

Oh my, I hate dl so much; would love to stay away from it, but staying away from the media except a few good printed newspapers has a price; the option 'turn off the TV' and internet is not as real as people with a modicum of soul left, who work in the media, try to tell themselves, to find sleep and to not kill themselves.

[quote]The 'subtext' of the entire show is, here is urban effete life, with characters who'd be gaybashed if they are real but are REALLY red blooded hetero bros, because being gay is icky and limited to that hyper queens restaurant critic/loser Gil.

One advice: When that angry voice in your head you call "subtext" tells you to burn things, don't do it.

r20 - don't be bitter ... r20 makes a very valid point.

I thought [italic]Friends[/italic] was the "no homo" show.

[italic]Frasier[/italic] had plenty of gay writers and actors, and when push came to shove they refused to tolerate homophobia, as in the Dr. Nora episode created as a response to when Dr. Laura Schlesinger had her talk show from Paramount.

It was a stepping stone, maybe. The "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" of sitcoms.

[quote] It was a stepping stone, maybe. The "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" of sitcoms.

To what, the likes of [italic]Will & Grace[/italic], [italic]Glee[/italic] and [italic]Modern Family[/italic], of which only the latter was ever anything resembling good despite being a gayed-up, de-blackened ripoff of a ripoff.

No..

Wasn't Frasier's neighbor Cam Winston gay? He certainly seemed to be quite the bossy bottom.

R18, I thought r17 was simply taking an idiom (commonly "Geez Louise"; here "Please, Louise") and expanding it for effect.

Frasier, you are so corpulent that whenever you sit around the magnificently appointed Tuscan villa, you truly sit around the magnificently appointed Tuscan villa.

It don't bother me.

[quote]Don't know who would take "Niles" as being straight. I always had a hard time believing he was so crazy about Daphne.

Even if he'd been straight I would have too. That AWFUL fake accent for starters.

Many of the best episodes were written by the fantastic Joe Keenan, who is as gay and out as you get.

"Roz, you look divine."

"You mean I look LIKE Divine."

Remember the ep where Dad had Niles pretend to be his boy toy? That was hilarious.

Frasier, finally losing it on Gil Chesterton, the flaming restaurant critic:

"Oh, shut up, you old QUEEN!"

Gil: " ... Well. Looks like kitty has claws."