Why did Rita Hayworth never achieved the international stardom Marilyn Monroe did.

I hear it was her complete inability to tell the difference between present tense and past tense verbs.

*Why did Rita Hayworth never achieve the international stardom Marilyn Monroe did?

before the grammar troll strikes

Too late.

Why do you say "she had quite a tumultuous life with many husbands and love affairs" like we don't know anything about her?

I loved her.

Hoo boy. This thread is already going south.

Rita was a Manson girl, and Hollywood never forgave her.

Is the grammar troll getting payed for detecting mistakes?

I WISH I WAS!!

Marylin was a break from the past... in terms of how she used and presented her sexuality.

[qoute]Is the grammar troll getting payed...

Oh dear.

[quote] [qoute]

Oh dear is RIGHT!

Haha!

what are you talking about, OP? Rita Hayworth was a huge international star in her prime!

She was amazing.

Rita was swell...

Hey GT, it's I wish I were....

My question is why Monroe, and not Hayworth, remains a pop culture icon that the average 24 old American still recognizes.

Maybe that should be it's own thread - classic stars who maintain their iconic status in popular culture.

Its own thread - not it's.

I blame autocorrect.

Didn't they have a thing?

She had a rough life, just like Garland her parents, in Hayworth's case her father exploited her. And she had many husbands who repeated that pattern. Her last husband, James Hill was Burt Lancaster's 'boy'. The NYT times described him as a 'world class hanger-on' who got her the role in Separate Tables, during which production they married and divorced 3 years later when Hill couldn't revive her career and she wasn't any use for him anymore.

R18 Rita was fucked up- but nobody knew it. She didn't walk around with a sign post like Monroe did. Also Rita was middle-aged during Monroe's popularity and why do people always forget to mention that MM was playboy's first celebrity issue nude pin-up? So that might have something to do with it.

She didn't have a dramatic, shocking death like Marilyn. Early deaths give celebs more cache. Dean, Ledger, Morrison, Cobain.

What are some other female examples of females?

R22 and R23 BINGO!

Janis Joplin r23

[quote] Hey GT, it's I wish I were....

Both forms are allowed.

r23: Carole Landis' suicide in 1948 was a very big deal at the time. But she was never a big star like MM or Rita, and by the time of her death she was washed-up in Hollywood.

It's always the blondes that stand out. MM also had good acting chops and could do comedy and drama.

She had an enormous screen presence.

Marilyn Monroe had sex dripping out of her pores. You can really see it in "ALL ABOUT EVE' big time!

Rita was a big star in the '40s. One of the biggest and most popular. Then she married Prince Aly Khan in '49 and hoped to retire from show business. But that marriage failed and she was forced return to Hollywood. A few years later, she married that no good Dick Haymes. When that marriage failed, she again returned to Hollywood, but by then she had been replaced by Kim Novak as the Queen of Columbia Pictures. Rita was never again to regain her earlier popularity despite working into the 1970s. That's what happens when you get old. There's always someone younger and prettier to take your place in the public's affections.

Had Marilyn lived, she might have had the same career trajectory as Rita. Her popularity and box office appeal was already on the wane by '62. Her premature death, however, cemented her place in the movie star pantheon.

It was a crime SOMETHING'S GOT TO GIVE was never completed. You can tell from the surviving footage and stills that Marilyn would have fit into the '60s perfectly.

[quote]What are some other female examples of females?

Gosh, where to start?

I love her, but to answer Opie's question, she didn't die young enough.

Completely different talents and completely different marketing ...

Rita Hayworth, Betty Grable, Ava Gardner, and Lana Turner were the top sex symbols of the 1940s. They all lived well into their 50s, 60s, and 70s, well past their Hollywood prime. Marilyn's death at 36 preserved her as forever young and eternally famous.

Marilyn had " IT " . That magic that no one can quite explain. Rita was beautiful and talented but she did not radiate an inner light like MM . Also Marilyn appeared more approachable. Even at her most glamorous Marilyn seemed like someone who would be sweet and sincerely friendly. On the other hand Rita seemed regal and almost cold. Not as cold as Grace Kelly or as ' precious ' as Audrey Hepburn...but still someone you could never warm up too . With Marilyn, men as well as woman wanted to befriend and protect her.

Rita was a better dancer but not so compelling as an actress. She suffered under the Studio System. They forced her to have her hairline plucked to make it higher. Nowadays, with Neanderthals like Kylie Jenner considered beautiful, low foreheads are fashionable.

Sex appeal. None.

R38, who? Rita? You must be joking.

Who, Rita? Yeah she could kind of dance...she was not a hoofer but a real dancer with the gorgeous body and feminine lines and beautiful positions that lent her movement ease and abandon. She was Astaire's favorite partner, if not his most accomplished. She was also one of the great Stars, a beauty and sex symbol. A good actress, much better than Lana or Ava or Grable or Kim Novak. They were all a bit breathy, ha. Rita was taken as her father's dance partner and lover as a teenager and she was basically pimped out by one man or another most of her life, her father, first husband and Harry Cohn famously made sure she earned her way to stardom. She had little self esteem saying "men go to bed with Rita Hayworth but are disappointed to wake to me." She aged rapidly and lost her allure before 40. Hayworth had a tragic and terrible life. Diminishing returns, worse and worse men, beatings and alcoholism and years of suffering from undiagnosed Alzheimer's followed by an equally protracted death. "If This Was Happiness" is a very good and very sad biography of Rita. She was one of the great stars.

Everyone knows Rita.

Because unlike Monroe, stuck in a backwater like Hollywood, thanks to Ali she had a whole other life on the international circuit of the super rich.

Bewitching Rita!

Perfect summation, r40, thank you! And thank you for the clip of Porter's "So Near and Yet So Far" from YOU'LL NEVER GET RICH (1941). It's a number that is a bit overlooked. From about 1:09 to 3:16 there are exactly two 'cuts' - most of the number is one take.

Pity she didn't make more films with Astaire.

R31 it was retooled, recast, and released a year later as MOVE OVER, DARLING starring Doris Day and James Garner in the Marilyn and Dean Martin roles. It was a big hit, which makes me sad, because Marilyn needed that hit, after the flops of LET'S MAKE LOVE and THE MISFITS.

Did Rita Hayworth have a longstanding feud with Veronica Lake? Did Veronica Lake usually get cast in roles that Rita wanted? Did they ever show up to the Oscars wearing the same dress? If so, who wore it better?

*****

Karina Longworth had an hour-long review of Margarita Cansino aka Rita Hayworth's life on her "You Must Remember This" podcast. Much of the focus is on her relationship with Welles, but most of what r40 has said is in the podcast -

r46: No, Rita & Veronica were at different studios - Rita was Columbia, Veronica was at Paramount.

It's interesting that Rita & Ann Miller were at Columbia together. Ann was "Queen of the B's", and never got a major film while under contract. Rita was not really a tap dancer - she was fine when called on to do it, but she couldn't tap like Ann. But then nobody could tap like Ann.

Marilyn has so many iconic roles on her resume in beloved iconic films: 7 Year Itch, Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, How to Marry a Millionaire, Niagara, Some Like It Hot, Bus Stop, even All About Eve in which she only has 2 scenes, that are still viewed with great interest by younger generations.

Rita has only one: Gilda in Gilda, singing Put the Blame on Mame.

Marilyn was lucky to die young.

Wasn't Rita part Latina? Or am I thinking of somebody else

Yes, she was.

She has her hair dyed and electrolysis to get her "look", R54. Real name: Margarita Carmen Cansino= very Latina.

R54 should have been addressed to R52.

Rita when still at Fox. Her first films there were minor bites and as a gypsy in the Jane Withers film PADDY O'DAY. The head of Fox studios, Winfield Sheehan thought she had great potential and cast her as the female lead in the expensive Technicolor RAMONA When Zanuck took over, Fox he let Rita co, and cast Loretta Young in the film.

By 1940, Zanuck's move was considered one of the greatest Hollywood blunders, but he arranged for a three-picture loan-out from Harry Cohn for BLOOD AND SAND, TALES OF MANHATTAN and MY GAL SAL. Rita was warmly greeted at Fox by the workers who knew her when, and by stars who stayed on through the switch from Fox to 20th Century-Fox. Alice Faye was especially tickled as she loathed Zanuck and was pleased to see him humiliated.

She also made an impression in the Cary Grant film [italic] Only Angels Have Wings[/italic].

[quote]Ann was "Queen of the B's", and never got a major film while under contract.

R49 YOU CAN'T TAKE IT WITH YOU was a B-picture?

Rita Hayworth was born Margarita Carmen Cansino in Brooklyn, NY, to a Spaniard actor/dancer, Eduardo Cansino, Sr., and an American of Irish-English descent, Volga Hayworth, a popular showgirl in Broadway who performed with the Ziegfeld Follies. Rita got her stage name by shortening her first name and taking her mother's maiden name -- much like Marilyn took her mother' maiden surname, Monroe. She got her first name from 20th Century Fox executive, Ben Lyon, who had been an actor in his youth and had starred opposite the Broadway actress Marilyn Miller in the pre-Code film HER MAJESTY, LOVE. He said Norma Jean reminded him of her. Incidentally, Marilyn would become Marilyn Miller when she married Arthur Miller.

Ann Miler made the occasional A film. She costarred with Kate, Ginger, Eve and Lucy in STAGE DOOR at RKO when she was supposedly 14.

None of Rita's Columbia musicals are watchable these days. I find even most of the musical numbers sub-par.

r61: You're kidding, right?

Ahem.

r14

Is correct. The only one bigger than her was Bette Davis. She even outpaced Davis for the highest paid female actress and actually won total control over the right to make 3 movies at $750K.

She made horrible decisions and had affairs and wound up selling back her right to make movies for a fraction of what she was to be paid.

Her problem with Alzheimer's was also huge. She began having issues with it early on and covered for it by drinking. This was before people knew about it really and she got the reputation of being another bitter oversexed drunk.

Monroe only got legendary status by dying, she would've faded off like all the rest had she lived. Marlon Brando isn't the "legend" James Dean is, though he was just as popular and a better actor. But he lived, got fat and made foolish protests and so forth. While Brando is still thought of as great, he lived so he'll never be a legend as if he died young.

See also Buddy Holly, among others.

I wonder if she also had an affair with Burt Lancaster, they didn't do a movie kiss in Separate Tables and her future husband, Lancaster's production partner was gay. I wonder whether she knew.

QT, it's "I wish I were" no?

Her father was muy guapo!!!!

The OP is really wondering why he doesn't see tchotchkes with her likeness when he goes to the mall.

Rita was Spanish. That's white. Since when is a low forehead a racial trait?

R69 not all Spaniards are white. Penelope Cruz and Javier Bardem look pretty swarthy and have played Mexicans and Latin Americnas in the past.

Please don't go down this route R69 and R70. It doesn't need to be explained to anyone. Rita had a low hairline, not a low forehead. Both she and Marilyn had electrolysis to raise and reshape their hairlines in a remarkably similar fashion. Artfully done. Like Marilyn, she was in films for over 5 years before she found success. Hayworth WAS thought to be 'too ethnic' looking at the start of her career. She became a strawberry blonde, blonde or redhead for the rest of her life.

[quote]Hayworth WAS thought to be 'too ethnic' looking at the start of her career.

Yes, she was.

Weird how fashions in beauty change. Zayn Malik and Kylie Jenner both have very tiny, low foreheads and are considered beauties.

Rita was not classically beautiful but such a WOW looking woman. Sexy and pretty and sweet.

Hayworth had enormous international success, was considered a true beauty (whatever the assistance of electrolysis, makeup and lighting), could dance wonderfully, had a great body, DEFINED Hollywood glamor for 10 years, and somehow managed a persona that combined the exotically distant with the All-American.

What is with these OPs with their plain wrong and silly "How come....."? Do they get a quarter for every attempt?

She was dubbed The Love Goddess. She must have been doing something right.

[R76] - Ehhh, that's nothin'. I was dubbed The Oomph Girl.

Adore Ann Sheridan. She deserves her own thread.

This picture of Rita Hayworth was very popular during wartime.

Fred Astaire said this about Rita:

'She's not the best dancer, she's not the most beautiful girl and she's not the best actress. She hasn't even got the best legs. But it's something about the way it all hangs together.'

That's more than a bit cunty.

Monroe was a train wreck of monumental proportions. And she always had that little lost girl/waif vulnerability despite her in your face sexuality. That's why she still intrigues people; she was unknowable, full of contradictions, profoundly unhappy. Hayworth's life wasn't a bowl of cherries, but she was nowhere near as unstable as Monroe. And her death was a long, slow fade-out from Alzheimer's disease. whereas Marilyn went out in sleazy, mysterious fashion; nude in bed, dead from an overdose of pills but with a lot of questions about what happened that night unanswered. They both had tragic lives. But at least Hayworth had a daughter who was devoted to her and cared for her during her final years. Monroe was so alone that her body lay unclaimed at the mortuary until her former husband Joe DiMaggio took charge of the situation. The only relatives she had were her insane mother and a half-sister. Of the two. Monroe's life was more sad.

R81, he meant she was a 9 across four different categories, which was better than being a 10 in one or two categories. It was meant as a compliment.

[quote]and why do people always forget to mention that MM was playboy's first celebrity issue nude pin-up?

MARiLYN didn't 'pose' for PLAYBOY and the first issue per se rather HEFNER used those photos taken about 6 years earlier by MR. KELLY for the center pictorial.

She gave good face.

Lana, Katherine, Lana, too.

Bette Davis, we love you.

oops

[italic] Lauren, Katharine, [/italic] Lana, too.

R84 but she was still the first Playboy covergirl and centerfold. Those pictures launched an empire, because if the issue had not been a hit, the magazine would've quickly folded. This first issue is the only issue of Playboy not to have the date on the cover. Hugh Hefner said he was not sure there would be a second issue.

r83: I know it was. I can see exactly what Astaire was getting at. But it's one of those compliments that has an edge to it.

Rita had a wonderful free style of dancing, it was a bit reckless. She gave something to Astaire better than sex. She brought beautiful youthful energy and a sense of abandon over perfection. They looked great together. Her body was so beautiful and her movement was so feminine,,,,yet she was athletic and glowing. He achieved more of his vision with Ginger and Eleanor and Cyd, but Rita set him a bit free. Gene Kelly just looks out for himself when he dances, Fred knew how to partner his women.

R88 a backhanded compliment?

[quote]Rita had a wonderful free style of dancing, it was a bit reckless. She gave something to Astaire better than sex. She brought beautiful youthful energy and a sense of abandon over perfection

But wasn't Rita a professional dancer since childhood?

r89: Thank you for that beautifully written and sensitive evaluation. I've always felt that more than any other female film dancers, Rita and Vera-Ellen expressed absolute joy in dancing.

Sad about Vera-Allen. Her only child died of SIDS, and not long after, her 12-year marriage to a Rothschild heir ended. She withdrew from the public and died in 1981, aged 60.

R52/R54 Rita Hayworth wasn't 'Latina.' That refers to someone whose origin/ancestry is in Latin America and excludes Spain. Rita's father was from Andalusia and her mother was American of English/Irish descent.

However, she was 'Hispanic,' which refers to people of Spanish-speaking descent. This encompasses countries from Latin America and Spain.

That said, OP, I've often wondered about this very thing regarding Jean Harlow. Wasn't she the original 'Blond Bombshell'? It's funny, by the '50s, Harlow had become this iconic symbol in death. So many young actresses wanted to emulate her and listed her as their idol-- not unlike how many young girls/women view Marilyn today. And now she's all but forgotten by the general public.

My guess is she wasn't a whore.

"Men go to bed with Rita Hayworth and wake up with Cary Grant"....well, something like that.

She ended her days trapped inside her mind, howling in the darkness, unable to speak or even recognize her family.

Marilyn Monroe had an intense psychological need to become the biggest superstar in the world. After her first 15 years or so of childhood being practically invisible and not particularly wanted with her mother in and out of sanity and no father..........I think she vowed to be the most coveted woman in the world in adulthood and she achieved that goal. Yes she sold sex appeal, but she also sold herself as the biggest horatio alger story the world has ever seen. She got the public in droves to route for her to end up the fairy princess and live happily ever after. Stunning looks and wit helped. Plus she kept herself very removed from public life when not making movies to further the rare superstar iconic status. You may disagree with this analysis but to this day every scrap of paper that was a personal possession of hers is worth a fortune. The initial sale of her contents from her NY apt grossed $13 million dollars.She really owned practically nothing of real value, jewelry or otherwise, it was just the fact that it was hers made it priceless. A few years ago there was a second auction of her possessions from her Brentwood house that Anna strasberg , her surviving beneficiary wasnt even aware of until a few years ago. It seems like Marilyn s business mgr Inez Melson squirrled away the items unbeknownst to the estate and kept it hidden for over 50 years.Anyway this auction brought over $11 million. One example was some PAPERWORK on her 1955 ford thunderbird automobile regarding its registration. This brought $14000 dollars. If you just look at this type feeding frenzy over anything surviving pertaining to her its obvious nobody could ever top her star status. Rita Hayworth was a beautiful glamorous star but she wasnt single minded in being the biggest star as well as human being the world had ever seen.

She was one of the premier sex symbols of the forties, as Monroe was in the fifties. Don’t understand why people don’t get this.

Hayworth was a HUGE international star in the 40s. Even today she is is recognized by international fans of old hollywood film. She was famous to even Asians of the older generations. The kind of people who don't know RH likely don't know who Grace Kelly or Audrey Hepburn are either.

r80, you probably won't see this, but I adore Rita Hayworth and I sort of, kind of love that Astaire quote, yet I can't find a source, could you tell me where you got it from?

Thanks.

That reminds me of that Cher quote about Madonna "She isn't beautiful and she isn't talented but she is SO creative at what she does". Also, "she could afford to be a little more magnanimous and a little less of a cunt".

Laurence Olivier and Vivien Leigh once walked into the Cocoanut Grove to a round of applause. Vivien was radiant, and smiled and nodded with appreciation. As they were seated, there was a sudden burst of rapturous blissful cheering, and the maître d ran off, basically forgetting whom he had just sat. In walks Rita Hayworth, getting glorious attention and sent to the best table available. Vivien turned to Laurence and said, "How the fuck do you compete with that?"

Marilyn died young and stayed pretty.

Rita hung around long enough to become a chubby middle-aged guest star on Carol Burnett — and then a moron in a nursing home — and that tarnished her status significantly by comparison.

Marilyn was old looking when she died thanks to all the drug abuse.

People should just stop with 'why didn't "X" have career or whatever like MM..." There was no one like Marilyn Monroe then nor now, which is why studio suits put up with her long as they did despite all her issues.

Rita Hayworth's big number

One of Marilyn Monroe's

Totally no comparison. MM blows RH out of the water not just in terms of sex appeal, but you just can't take your eyes off her.

The Carol Burnett Show appearance was from 1971, and I'm not just saying this just because I adore her - I thought Rita Hayworth was one of the most lovely looking women right up until the end.

Here's the show, they're just goofing around, playing vaudeville:

Marilyn also looked amazing just before her death—slim, perfectly costumed and coiffed.

She was about to transition into the original MILF when she died, and that was the lasting image she left.

I have watched quite a few of Rita's dance routines and she seems stiff in the shoulders and torso in most of them. Also doesn't extend her arms easily. I am not a dancer, except from some rudimentary tap lessons way back when, and wondered if any pro dancers could comment.

R110

How odd; Rita Hayworth's background was in dance. In fact she was a dancer before becoming an actress. Of course there are all sorts of styles of dancing and dancers who perform.

Did you know? Rita Hayworth endured hours of painful electrolysis to reshape her hairline which studio suits thought was too "low" or ethnic

Ms. Hayworth of course was of half Spanish descent on her father's side, so so likely inherited much of his Latin looks. However thanks to cosmetics, the aforementioned electrolysis, and miracle of photography or film Rita Hayworth appears "white" as any girl next door in a Nebraska town.

r111 and r112, of course everyone already knows this. Her father, as much as you can call him that, was Caucasian, there's nothing that spectacular about her "transformation", especially when you take in to consideration the fact that in old photos (pre transformation) she was already dragged up as a very young girl by her pervert father; he died her hair black, it wasn't that colour originally, and painted her face including heavy crimson lipstick. I don't think a photo of young Rita exists where she was just allowed to be a normal make up free girl not in some costume.

[quote] She was about to transition into the original MILF

That doesn't make sense, Marilyn didn't have any kids. Therefore, not a MILF.

R104. A “moron” she had Alzheimer’s. Way to be classy, jerk.

While this movie doesn't get the love, it is one of my favorites, and became the basis for "Xanadu".