I love Judy Garland

Who?

Don't act like you don't know who she is, R1.

No. Never got the attraction. I don't like her voice at all. And I'm not under 40.

I tried to take a bite out of her but she ran away just in time. I think I may have scarred her for life.

Our husband hated Judy Garland, refused to listen to or watch her.

Maybe that is why he is no longer our husband.

Serious genius.

She sucks the meat

Oh Deanna, shave that eyebrow!

GOD, I MISS JUDY PILLS!!!!!!!

I like her a lot. I love some of her performances. I saw her TV show Christmas episode from the mid or early 1960's last December for the first time and it was a lot of fun. There is a lot of sadness in the aura that surrounds her.

One more incredible performance.

There is so much sadness surrounding her, but the genius is so evident.

Was she an alcoholic? There's rumors about her drinking alot.

I don't care for her singing voice, but she has that it factor. There's an earthy, genuine, vulnerable, vibe about her that makes her very likeable.

And she was a truly funny storyteller. Great sense of humor, considering her life.

I have it on good authority her cootch stinks

Bitch, got me fired

God I love you bitches. Thinking you're funny!

She really is fascinating to watch. But the vocal quality from r6 to r11's videos is remarkable. When she was really good she was perfection and "When The Sun Comes Out" is one of her great performances.

She wasn't to big a star to buy her own groceries...

And she was always ready to help a friend...

Such a great, great voice. And so full of emotion; she really knew how to put a song over, even at a young age. Too bad her personal life eclipses her talent.

I've never understood the attraction to her. Her fake (to me) showbiz schmaltz is grating. The fact is, if she was current right now, most of you would be making fun of her for her drug problems.

A genius.

I think there are plenty of people "under forty" who know who Judy Garland was. Who HASN'T seen "The Wizard of Oz?"

r19 I love that performance of When The Sun Comes Out, and I posted it bc I also think it is among her greatest performance from the series. r23 only assholes "make fun" of people with drug addiction.

Her other rendition of When the Sun Comes Out, earlier in the TV series, is even better.

[quote]I think there are plenty of people "under forty" who know who Judy Garland was. Who HASN'T seen "The Wizard of Oz?"

Wizard of Oz was big with Baby Boomers. Generations since that know if it less and less. My niece and nephew have never seen it.

It is like anything: Even the things that meant the most to your generation are long forgotten by the next ones.

Hammy, fidgety Judy Garland was of a time. It has passed.

"Hammy, fidgety Judy Garland was of a time. It has passed.'

You are such an idiot. Your niece and nephew sound like idiots, too.

We always thought Judy was like Christmas - very very special.

I hum/sing this on a regular basis for some reason

This too!

[quote]The fact is, if she was current right now, most of you would be making fun of her for her drug problems.

If she was current right now, she would be stuck twerking to autotuned renditions of shitty 2-chord crap that's generated by a computer instead of composed by human beings.

r33 you, my dear, should die in a grease fire.

The only good thing that ever came out of Judy Garland.

Haters, the lot of you. Garland is, and always be, a one of a kind legend who never can be matched.

overrated, bad voice.

I loved the Wizard of Oz when I was a child. But, as with Santa and Trick or Treating, I outgrew it. And I'm a baby boomer.

I think she is enjoyable in her movies (except the laughable A Star is Born), but as a singer, she tended to oversing, overact every lyrics. I don't enjoy listening to her.

Kids now want more sophisticated story lines and won't accept the cheap effects like the nylon stocking twister and the entrance to Emerald City, which is clearly a painting six feet ahead of them.

Kewl, OP. We'll let you in.

Judy was one of the most talented singers ever. She also had a lot of pain and struggle throughout her life. Despite that, she had a good heart, which is hard to encounter in Hollywood. At a time when gay people were oppressed beyond belief, they identified with her struggles and she theirs.

We know every note and every line of Judy at Carnegie Hall, Judy at the Palace, and Born in a Trunk - by heart!

R42 and R43 show class and taste. R37 is a tasteless bottom feeding gash.

R44, are you new to DL?

[quote] Judy was one of the most talented singers ever. She also had a lot of pain and struggle throughout her life. Despite that, she had a good heart, which is hard to encounter in Hollywood. At a time when gay people were oppressed beyond belief, they identified with her struggles and she theirs.

That's not what Lorna said in her book.

You are a sad sack of shit who can't let go of the past, OP.

There, I said it.

Not sure I've seen her in anything. A straight buddy called me a bad gay when he heard I hadn't seen The Wizard of Oz. I'm not too much into female gay icons but if I have to choose one Marilyn Monroe is my choice.

r47 you are an AIDS ridden whore who took too much cum in the asshole.

R13, did you just hatch from an egg?

I used to love her...not so much now. Guess I'm just tired of her.

R50 = Sid Luft

Dear God, R48. Next you'll be telling us you've never seen a Helen Lawson show!

I love Pills!

You mean Valley of the Dolls? I did actually see it a couple of years ago because people are always raving about it here. I sort of enjoyed watching it but it's certainly not a new favorite.

R54, Helen Lawson is a real person!

Or rather "was".

R56, Helen is still going strong. Very strong.

This is the real Helen Lawson and she is FABULOUS!

Did she marry two gay dudes or three?

three

Just or Liza, R60?

Judy or Liza, R60?

OP as R49 shows her cards. Pretending to get the genius of Garland does not justify AIDS talk or shaming bottoms. In fact, writing that unnecessary homophobic hate speech proves the OP to be the opposite of a true Judy Garland devotee. Just another control freak lunatic who needs to drop the pretensions and pull the tampon out of her bloody mouth.

R62 Three apiece, no?

r63 wrong, as wrong as can be you tortured asshole

Judy had THREE gay husbands: Vincent Minnelli, Mark Heron, and Mickey Deans.

I don't know much about Liza's husbands, but at least three of them were gay: Peter Allen, Jack Haley Jr. and of course David Gest. Was Mark Gero gay? Probably.

Yes, the earlier version of "When the Sun Comes Out" from her show is even better. Pure genius. I linked it here.

For me Judy was an instant like. I can listen to her often, enjoy almost everything she ever did, and love her films. She just had "it", and I never get enough. Although not overly ambitious, I can't stop watching "In the Good Old Summertime", as apparently it was a small window of Judy during a period of relative wellness and she shines in the role, and the rest of the cast is excellent. Nobody will ever have that quality, I can't explain it.

This is pretty fabulous, notwithstanding the bra.

Yes, I do. Very much. I especially love her MGM period.

Hi OP, I love Judy, too.

Judy at Carnegie Hall -- typically considered the greatest live recording of all time. And it is. Mort Lindsey's band...yowza. Judy's talent...staggering, incomparable. Put on some headphones -- it could change your life 🤗

Some comments about that April 1961 night:

Mike Nichols: I don't remember what she sang. I just remember that our jaws dropped. Ann Miller: She tore that audience up. I mean she ripped them to shreds.

Her peers -- Spencer Tracy, Lauren Bacall, Rock Hudson, Henry Fonda, Richard Burton, Julie Andrews, Carol Channing, Elaine May, Leonard Bernstein -- were mesmerized, clutching each other, standing on their chairs trying to touch her.

Most great performers give it up to Judy -- Bette Midler, Babs Streisand. The list goes on and on.

I hope you find these fun. (Sorry, too lazy for quotation marks.)

Harold Arlen: Just give her a stage and a spotlight and get out of the way. Aretha Franklin: Judy Garland was the Queen of Soul. She was in a class by herself. (Yes, ReeRee actually said that.) Tony Bennett: There will never be another diva like Judy Garland. Ever. She was the greatest singer of the 20th century. Fred Astaire: Judy...the world's greatest all-around entertainer. Gene Kelly: She didn't have to rehearse. She only had to watch a complicated dance number once and she could memorize it. Frank Sinatra: We'll all be forgotten. Never Judy. Mort Lindsey, Norman Jewison, et al: No one comes close.

I hesitate to include this one -- the relentess focus on her personal struggles totally sucks and distracts from her extraordinary greatness. Don't remember who said it:

Even half dead, she was better than anyone else.

This is immensely more entertaining than the duet with Babs.

I love this quote-within-a-quote from Liza: "My mother taught me, 'Give the public what they want, and then go get a hamburger someplace.'"

True words to live by.

The thing I could never stand about her were all those horrible Al Jolson type songs she sang. Swanee? No, thank you. Not even once.

Even the great American Songbook songs she sang, she very often drenched them in bathos and vocal tics, mutilating the melody in a laborious manner.

The simple beauty of "Somewhere Over the Rainbow," as sung in the film, made way for a very self-conscious, affected way of singing as she got older. She became a parody of Judy Garland, rendering female impersonators entirely unnecessary.

Liza channels Judy.

I used to really like her, but as I've aged I really object to the way she pushes her 'vulnerability.' She needed a sense of 'cool.' Other singers,Holiday, Joplin, work their demons into their music without rubbing our noses in it. Too bad she never grew up.

I wouldn't say I love her but I admire and respect her. Same with Liza.

Liza looks fat in r74 photo and thus wears a tent-blouse/

[quote] Aretha Franklin: She was in a class by herself.

So was I!

I never liked Wizard of Oz as a kid. I found it creepy. However, the first time I saw Judy outside that, I was smitten and have loved her since.

Did Liza ever make a statement about David Gest's death?

r70, amazing! Great stuff!

And r78 for the win.

This gives a glimpse of what the second season of The Judy Garland Show may have been like.

Judy's problem was that she did not read/understand the contracts for her TV series!

And she trusted those slimebuckets like Fields and Begelman, who ultimately robbed her of every penny.

r84 agreed, horrible blood sucking parasites aided her demise.

Joy Behar asked Liza the (tiresome) question, Why do you think your mother had such a big gay following?

Liza replied, "Because they have good taste and know true talent when they see it."

There has never been anyone that comes close to the genius of Judy Garland.

I think the pathos and tragedy adds to her popularity with gays, however- that voice is once in a lifetime. Not to mention she was a fine actress, dancer and comedienne. I really can't think of anyone who comes close today. And Liza, in her prime, was a 75% shadow of her mom's talent.

The gays identify with her pathetic, tragic life; we need to increase our collective self-esteem. I'm embarrassed for us. Oh, I forgot; her fans are dying off quickly, thank gawd.

r88 why bother to comment? Seriously. There are many people - young and old- who will always appreciate great talent. But I digress- you live in a basement and weigh 400 pounds. You have no self-esteem, you asshole.

I haven't watched very many of her movies, what would people recommend?

I've seen [italic]Summer Stock[/italic], [italic]The Wizard of Oz[/italic], [italic]Meet Me in St. Louis[/italic], [italic]In the Good Old Summertime[/italic], and the Andy Hardy movies.

[quote] Liza replied, "Because they have good taste and know true talent when they see it"

Including when selecting wives.

I think R90 has seen quite a few of her movies. But here are some others:

Everybody Sing

Ziegfield Girl

For Me And My Gal (features Gene Kelly's MGM film debut)

The Harvey Girls (features the great number "On the Atchison, Topeka and the Santa Fe.")

Easter Parade (paired with Fred Astaire, she does a number "A Couple of Swells" that was a standard she would perform over and over)

In The Good Old Summertime

A Star Is Born (considered her greatest performance; she was robbed of an Oscar for it)

Judgement At Nuremberg (a rare performance where she does no singing; she was so good as a German frau that she was nominated for an Oscar)

I Could Go On Singing (not a great movie, but there's a segment that's remarkable because the dialogue seems to be describing her own life)

[quote]A Star Is Born (considered her greatest performance; she was robbed of an Oscar for it)

Only starry-eyed fans think this.

In reality, it was a terrible movie. And she was totally miscast. A fat, short, frumpy middle-age-looking woman trying to play an ingenue. It was ridiculous.

And the self-indulgent "Born in a Trunk" sequence was just Garland's vanity. It completely derailed the story and film and led to cuts in the actual story, leaving the film incomprehensible.

No one robbed that silly ham of any awards for such a dreadful movie.

Her voice had that beautiful vibrato, and she could put it to thrilling use, even as a young woman.

R93 is a VERY silly troll. Ignore the dipshit.

Ha! Ha! Ha!

I'll say!

R93 is a delusional cunt.

Not inordinately.

R70 reminds me of the first time I read about the awed reaction of the A-List and civilians to Judy at Carnegie Hall, in 'The Gay Metropolis.' Then I heard the recording, and understood.

These days, the show could be pieced together visually on You Tube. Then, not so much. The Greatest Night In Show Business History wasn't filmed! High on the list for that one-off Time Travel opportunity.

We agree with Miss r93, ASAB was total crap, painful to have to endure watching, except that it gave birth to one FABULOUS song.

And this is coming from Judy's number 1 fan in the entire world - ourself!

Erna don't know dick about dick.

R96 says: "Judy was one of the most talented singers ever. She also had a lot of pain and struggle throughout her life. Despite that, she had a good heart, which is hard to encounter in Hollywood. At a time when gay people were oppressed beyond belief, they identified with her struggles and she theirs."

If you really believed that R96, you would change your insulting screen name, which only contributes to the image of Garland as a pill-popping no-talent better off forgotten, not an artist on the level of Sinatra or Picasso or Callas.

YOU and YOUR NAME are part of the problem, R96.

A Star is Born was amazing, beginning to end.

The part that dragged was the section right before the end. Norman needed to fall and fall fast!

I do think Born in a Trunk was self indulgent, but just to see her singing and dancing like that is worth it.

This should end the debate. If this doesnt do it for you, well, you might be the tin man.

As strong as carnegie hall:

Yes She was one of the greatest entertainers of the 20th Century, and I adore her still

Lol right on 106

"Born in a Trunk" is my favorite sequence of the film. I love every word of it!

We know by heart every word and note from the "Born in a Trunk" sequence!

I used to love Garland as a small boy. It had to have been obvious from right then that I was gay gay gay. It took a while for that to actually come to fruition though.

I don't tell too many people about my Garland obsession (from age 3 to maybe age 7?). It's hard to explain. Obviously started with The Wizard Of Oz, but I got my parents and grandparents to buy me several of her albums on tape and vinyl, and I memorized all the words. Started watching any movies of hers that I came across. I even loved the TV movie Rainbow with Andrea McArdle as Judy.

My next-door neighbors (little boys my age) were into Mötley Crüe. Oy. I still think I had the better taste.

Anyone see the Garland musical CHASING RAINBOWS at Goodspeed?

We could never understand why in high school we were interested in Judy but all the boys in our class were interested in stinkfish/

R112 is Mrs. Patrick Campbell.

R110, you definitely had better taste.

I was mesmerized by her from the moment I first saw her, as a child, in the Wizard of Oz. Then on Saturdays at my grandmother's house we'd sometimes catch her movies with Mickey Rooney and I loved those too. There was just something about her and I knew it even at 5 years old. It's interesting to me how some people say the Wizard of Oz scared them as a child. It never scared me at all. I was fascinated by it and I loved Judy, but I was never scared by anything about it, including the flying monkeys.

Later I saw her later MGM films and loved those too, especially MMISL and Easter Parade. I didn't see ASIB until much later and was, truthfully, a little perplexed by it although there were moments that left me floored, mostly when she sang.

The Carnegie Hall album is something I bought when I was about 15 or so and I wore it out I listened to it so much. The greatest night in show business history indeed. I'll second that.

[quote]I do think Born in a Trunk was self indulgent, but just to see her singing and dancing like that is worth it.

But it didn't even make any sense. Because they were too cheap to pay for new songs, they used songs from the 20s. She did Black Bottom before she was discovered?

It made it look as if the flashbacks were going back 30 Years. Of course, Garland's haggard face sold it, but that wasn't the story.

I don't think Judy looked "haggard" in ASiB. I just don't.

It is the ultimate 1950s melodrama, but with James Mason, over-the-top production values, wide-screen format, George Cukor's direction, Moss Hart/Harold Arlen/Ira Gershwin writing, and of course, JUDY!

It is a thing unto itself of course, and cannot be judged comparatively to much else.

I know, I know.....MARY!

I saw her perform in person three times in the 1960s. Even at a low point in late 1967 at Madison Square Garden, Judy could still be wonderful in some songs. Extraordinary talent.

"The Carnegie Hall album is something I bought when I was about 15 or so and I wore it out I listened to it so much."

What did your parents think about their son "wearing out" a Judy Garland album...??

I'm guessing when you came out to them it wasn't exactly a huge shock...

R88, gays don't identify with her tragic life. Rather they celebrate her tremendous talent. Straight men do not tend to idolize women- gay men are not afraid to do so. Gay men love Streisand- hardly tragic but like Judy, a genius singer. In my book no one before since or after come close to these two great singers. Both of them are the perfect storm of timbre, power, musicianship, phrasing and acting in song- completely original and altogether authentic in their approaches to whatever they sing. Aretha, Nat, Sinatra, come close but don't quite have that 5th gear like Barbra and Judy.

PS, saw Streisand at the recent HRC event in NYC. Was prepared for the lesser 74 year old version. It was extraordinary- oh yeah a husky sound here and there, but she had the audience in tears with the Sondheim "Losing My Mind" and on their feet as she belted higher and with increasing power in the final of"Happy Days". The way she bores into a song and holds a note, adds vibrato that thobs or shimmers as necessary- at the right millisecond. Incredibly intense in person and up close. Same thing from Garland. Who cannot love her? Pity those who cannot appreciate. Hope you do with another artist. Great singing and music is like great sex- it makes you feel entirely alive.

ugh. old man charlie, he just keeps trolling along. streisand is not a great singer. gross.

r119 is a fat, disgusting frau that stinks of dirty pussy, no?

Are all bipolar people bisexual? I have heard about a couple of celebrities that were/are swinging both ways.

R118, are you me? I could have written the exact same post.

I was molested.

R101.. I gave "Erna"(snort!) The Cunt-Punch & Delete a LONG time ago.

She's like clowns. They think they're SO funny.

I don't think she was playing an "ingenue" in ASIB. How could she? It was obvious that she was older than that. I got the impression her character was someone with a lot of talent who'd been in show business a long time had never gotten the breaks to make it big until Norman Maine took an interest in her. That's how I felt about her role.

Of course, like all gaylings of my era (born in 1970) I was mesmerized by Judy in OZ. Then, as a teen, I started to think of her as corny, and lame.

It wasn't until I was in my 30s and had developed a more discerning and refined taste that I realized she was arguably the greatest entertainer of the 20th Century. I think she hits the peak of her powers in the late 50s and early 60s. Thank God she did that TV show, otherwise her brilliance in concert would be largely lost to history. I know there's the Carnegie Hall album, but seeing her perform makes a whole other impact. She was transcendent.

I don't know how anyone, gay or straight could not be thrilled and moved by her live renditions of The Man that Got Away, Rock-a-Bye, Smile and maybe a dozen others. But, I accept that they just aren't. I have some friends who worship Bob Dylan and he leaves me absolutely cold. While I don't agree with the people here dissing her talent, I can't really question other people's taste.

R51 = Lorna Luft

Here's Garland in 1951 on the radio singing THE song from South Pacific. FUCK YOU Mitzi Gaynor.

"Like all gaylings of my era (born in 1970) I was mesmerized by Judy in OZ. "

1970????? You missed so much, kid.

DL Eldergay here....

Not denying her talent, but I've never been a fan and am thoroughly indifferent to her.

FOOL, R131, South Pacific belongs to the originator: MARY MATIN.

That's MARY MARTIN.

R134 you seem retarded, are you? Did Mary Martin star in the movie?? You poor retarded soul. Now, die in a grease fire like a good motherfucker.

R136 = thinks movies are better than theater. Poor little queenie.

R136 if you saw Mary Martin on Broadway in South Pacific, you are not an eldergay, you are (or at least should be) a dead gay. I was comparing apples to apples asshole. Judy was a movie star. Mitzi was in movies.

I loved the scarecrow. Reminds me of hubby #3.

Garland had a wide and over time out of control vibrato. Streisand and Whitney were masters of using vibrato to add polish and finesse to belted high notes with spectacular results. Garland often sang better when she didn't push her voice to it's full power, but all thoroughbreds have to run. Especially when on speed. Garlands full bodied voice, with it's spectacular crescendos and perfectly phrased downbeats was thrilling, and her performance ability and immediacy matched it a lot of the time. But her more subtle, refined rasp infused jazz and instrumental interpretations were sometimes even greater.

Streisand is not a concert singer or communicator no matter how perfect her notes once were. She was a studio singer who frankly dismantled songs. Garland always sang with great respect for the song structure lyrically and in chord progression. She added drama with vocal dynamics and subtle shifts of timing, a modulation or two. But she could also whisper a song with great musicality. When she wasn't trying too hard to be "Judy Garland" she was a superb singer. It's the tone and timbre of a voice that we are moved by always. Garland did not have a perfect voice like Ella or Whitney, but she could fully express any song or emotion with her singing.

Excellent post R140

Lost in The Stars. Who else but Sinatra would even attempt this on television? Not easy to sing or for an audience to feel, Judy loved to show what she could do. Just as importantly she had great taste and refinement when she cared. I was born long after her television show aired, it has some spectacular moments of sincere vocal excellence, more than can be believed.

Like any other singer, some will dislike Garland's voice or manner. But no one should mistake her popularity as anachronistic or her stature as a stonewall fluke. Her voice is a goosebump inducing thrill while her unique delivery brings her genius to earth.

All pathos and histrionics aside, Garland was A great singer.

Thanks r141.

That "Rockabye Your Baby With a Dixie Melody" song as sung by Judy Garland is quite good. And I'm someone who normally listens to heavy psychedelic and stoner/alternative rock. But that shit is powerful.

Wow!

r128 is correct and the scene where she and Norman are talking (in a car?) the night they met is where she describes those earlier years on the road. How interesting.

I got hooked on Liza when I was in my late teens but Judy was in a category by herself. Amazing powerful voice and what certain singers never accomplish, she could deliver a song live and connect to an audience.

I agree that people like Streisand are studio singers. The kind of singer Judy and Liza were requires singing from an early age in front of an audience. Nothing gives your voice more dexterity, power and range and nothing helps you to become an interpreter of lyrics and melody than when you see how an audience reacts to you. Whitney had that gift too, same with Gladys and Diana.

And the fabulous Miss Peggy Lee - did she also have 'it'?

R140 and R142 made me tear up. Jesus, am I gay. Isn't it funny how many stereotypes can be true?

Really R140? Ever seen Streisand in concert or in person?

Judy was great, perhaps the greatest, but as I said above- this one too- her latest reviews at 74.

“Barbra Streisand sounded like diamonds. And porcelain and a freshly drawn bath and consommé.” The New York Times

“After witnessing her show last night, I can reconfirm that she’s still an extraordinary singer and entertainer the likes of which we may never see again.” NPR

“This one is the stuff of Streisand-holics’ dreams.” Billboard/The Hollywood Reporter

“There were moments when it was nearly impossible not to be awestruck.” Bay Area News Group

“We ran out of fingers and toes counting the signature songs and surprises that earned heartfelt standing ovations.” Philadelphia Daily News

“[Streisand] continues to make the finale of ‘Don’t Rain on My Parade’ sound like a space shuttle leaving Earth, the gravitational force enough to yank what looked like a sold-out crowd to its feet.” The New York Times

This performance blows my socks off. No one, not even our dear Streisand, can touch this.

Most of those reviews are chock full of hyperbole. Streisand can still pull out a great moment, but it's being sandwiched by too many moments of struggling and huskiness. Her upper range is shot, and she struggles with her lower range.

Gladys Knight is the best of that age group out there currently. No contest.

Of course I like Judy. She was a unique talent and a unique representative of her place in time. I think she will be remembered for a long time because everything she did is recorded on film or audio. She was special !!

Streisand never was on the level of really great singers like Judy, Aretha, Ella, Gladys, Chaka or Whitney. Even Celine Dion would have blown her off the stage. She never sang live with Donna Summer and Celine Dion exactly for that reason. B-level show tunes singer, I am sure she bought herself some favorable PR, she has sounded shit for years.

R156 I agree. Streisand is made for movies and the recording studio. Not for live performance. Judy, even at her lower points, captivated her audiences like no other.

"Old Man River" is amazing. How many women could pull off THAT song? Look at her face when she sings "I get weary...and sick of trying...I'm tired of livin' but scared of dyin'"; you can SEE that she's living the words.

Judy loved her drugs and definitely humiliated herself from time to time but she never crossed the line. People always forgave her or made excuses. You always felt Judy was a decent person and you felt her neediness - of course gay men were right there with her 1000%

The alternative was Amy Winehouse. She absolutely crossed the line and became repulsive in many people's eyes. Had she lived I don't think she would have able to have a full career - maybe many years down he road but I think it was impossible in the near term.. When Amy died it was like she just disappeared. There almost seemed to be a sense of relief. People stopped playing her music and I think most people were so embarrassed for her they were just glad to change the subject. Judy never got that far ...

Of course people had grown up with Judy. She was part of the family. There was a great sense of sadness and loss when she died,

I always wonder how Vincente Minelli and Judy got together. Gay men really loved her and she loved them. I don't think they broke off in a fight.

R159, I think you've misrepresented the way people feel about Winehouse since she died. She hasn't been shunned or forgotten, her music still gets played. Where on earth did you get this idea?

The recent documentary about her, AMY, is very popular.

[quote]Judy loved her drugs and definitely humiliated herself from time to time but she never crossed the line. People always forgave her or made excuses. You always felt Judy was a decent person and you felt her neediness - of course gay men were right there with her 1000%

I've read a few biographies and articles on Judy and even the most respected of those said that in the end she was a complete mess. At that point there were no lines and she was said to have been using smack (not suprising since heroin was not uncommon among musicians at that time). One the main things about Judy's downfall is that she simply couldn't handle the drugs. As long as she had someone around her who could somewhat manage her drug use -- the studio, Sid Luft, Liza/Lorna, etc. she could for the most part manage. Once they were gone she pretty much descended into a complete junky running away even her most devoted fans/helpers and her children.

She was stone nuts and like all addicts a user of people, places and things. She alienated the most kind hearted people willing to help her because she couldn't kick the drugs. She used the "poor,pitiful me act" to get by. She wouldn't accept responsibility for career, her finances, her drug use or herself. She got used because at that point the only people who could tolerate her were those who wanted something from her -- money mostly. She had tons of opportunity to get her life together -- especially financially, but she wanted to use. It's that simple. And in the end she was staying wherever she could, sucking strange dicks, popping pills and occasionally trying to sing for her -- and whatever gay man that was trying to take care of her at the time -- suppers.

Wow - that's really sad. Addiction is so awful and she had it bad. r163 - which bios did you enjoy the most?

Judy by Gerold Frank is supposed to be the best. I also liked "Get Happy" by Gerald Clarke and Lorna's book.

R163 believes any junk written in biographies.

No, OP. I'm under 70.

She certainly was a unique gay icon. Perfect for a repressed and closeted time. Who are the straight women now who gays just adore? I guess some but no one with such universal gay appeal. Thankfully times have changed and so has the way gays relate to celebrities. Not a needy - not as willing to be suck-ups ..

She fell asleep ( passed out) during a concert at Kiel Opera House in St. Louis. She had to be carried off stage and the concert was cancelled. She made it through two numbers.

It's amazing that she lived to 47. If she had been able to beat the addictions she probably could have lived a long time? Her resilience to her abuses is remarkable.

She was better when she was doing uppers. Twitchy and nervous but at least she stayed awake. She couldn't handle the barbiturates but then who could? (certainly not Marilyn). At the end of her life Judy was taking something like 30 a day or some outrageous amount. Just a zombie I guess. Does anyone use Barbiturates anymore? Doesn't sound fun to me? I think my mother occasionally took if she had a bad night and couldn't sleep but she didn't like them because she was groggy the next day ...

r170 - After Judy died she was found to have liver cirrhosis.

Her appearance on What's My Line? was interesting. She is clearly on something, and she blames it on the flu. At the end she promotes Valley of the Dolls and says "I'm the only one in it that doesn't take pills"- the panel and moderator give knowing laughs. It surprised me that she would make such a open joke about her love of the pill bottle.

The footage of her marrying Mickey Deans showed her to look ill.

well she died 3 months later so I guess that's no surprise.

"Get Happy" is by Gerald Clarke is dreadful; sleazy and inaccurate. He paints Judy's mother Ethel Gumm as a monster from hell and lays the blame for Judy's drug addiction and alcoholism solely on her. Why she MADE her little daughter into a drug addict by pouring pills down her throat when she was just a wee thing! You know where he got that information? From pill poppin' Judy, of course! She made rambling tapes (where she is obviously drunk or drugged) condemning her mother (and everybody else) for her problems. Typical drug addict/alcoholic behavior, lying and blaming other people for your fucked up life. Judy Garland was a prolific liar and she lied about her mother a lot. She also lied about plenty of other things as well, but Clarke takes her word for all of it. She said that L. B. Mayer were hot for her body! Yes, the same L. B. Mayer who called her a "hunchback." She said as a teenager at MGM she was beset by men who wanted to have sex with her: "don't think they didn't try!" Yes, with all the gorgeous women on the MGM payroll men were salivating over plump, plain, shrimpy Judy Garland. Clarke believes that, too. Clarke is obviously a big, ol' Judy queen.

Clarke also emphasizes Judy's sex life. He claims that one lover of hers, after she came him a blowjob, requested that he sing a few bars of "Over The Rainbow" so he could enjoy the spectacle of Judy Garland singing her signature song "through a mouthful of semen." He also claims that Judy would fellate Tom Green (one of her gay boyfriends; they were engaged for a while) under the table in restaurants. And she had affairs with other women, even having a sexual relationship with one of her fans. Clarke's book is just a piece of trash, filled with bullshit.

"Judy" by Gerold Frank is a good biography of hers. "Rainbow: the stormy life of Judy Garland" by Christopher Finch is also another good one.

Verify 'smack' Miss r163 or STFU!

Old people here suck.

Garland never was on heroin. It is true that in her final days in NYC before she headed to London with Deans that she sang in bars for $100 here and there. She was very sick, and so broke. Liza, Lorna and the rest had abandoned her, because she was killing them. Just 5 years later, Betty Ford Center opened. Just think what might have been had she hung in longer.

Judy Garland would probably never have gone into rehab. She said on those tapes that she wasn't a drug addict or alcoholic! Before you can ever begin to be in recovery you have to admit you're an addict and that your addiction has taken control of your life.

The '70's were a time of change, R180. I think she would have been persuaded.

" I think she would have been persuaded."

Not Judy! She was truly a hopeless addict and alcoholic. Like Amy Winehouse.

r174 - reminds me of the pictures of Edith Piaf shortly before she died at 47. Another famous drug abuser.

At the time of her marriage to Mickey Deans she looked like a dried up monkey carcass. And she was blabbing about how she was finally happy for the first time in her life, had finally found the love of her love, had never known true happiness until she met her darling gay Mickey.: “This is it. For the first time in my life, I am really happy. Finally, I am loved.” But as one blog article stated:

Not that loved, because despite the long celebrity guest-list, not one of Judy’s famous friends made it to the wedding reception held at Quaglino’s the large and expensive restaurant situated in Bury Street just south of Piccadilly. Several hundred people were invited and only fifty made it to the function.

The glasses of champagne remained largely undrunk and an ostentatious three-tiered cake remained mostly uneaten. “I can’t understand it,” Judy was reported to have said in next day’s Sunday Express, “they all said they’d come”. Even her daughter Liza Minnelli, who had turned 23 just three days before, had called her mother to say “I can’t make it, Mama, but I promise I’ll come to your next one.” Another journalist apparently wrote that the reception was “the saddest and most pathetic party I have ever attended”. Actually there was one celebrity guest at the wedding – Mickey Deans’ best man, Johnnie Ray. Ray had had hits in the fifties such as Cry and The Little White Cloud That Cried and was famous for the mootable ability to cry on stage earning him the moniker ‘the Nabob of Sob’ or occasionally the ‘Prince of Wails’. In reality, Ray was no close friend of Deans or Garland and the only reason that he was a guest at the wedding was that he was due to open for a brief Scandinavian tour Deans had organised for his new wife four days after the wedding.

Judy Garland was just 47 years old and $4 million in debt when she died. She was buried in New York and, making an effort this time, guests included Lauren Bacall, James Mason, Cary Grant, Katharine Hepburn, Lana Turner and latterly Frank Sinatra who paid all the funeral expenses and presciently said, “Judy will now have a mystic survival. She was the greatest.”

Ironically, considering the effort she put into keeping her weight down, Garland was probably less than 70 lbs when she died. She was so thin that it was said that to keep the waiting photographers non the wiser, when her body was removed from the Cadogan Lane mews house, covered in only a blanket, she was carried out draped over someone’s arm like a folded coat.

In those pictures of her with Mickey Deans and Johnny Ray she looks like a dried up monkey carcass. But she was babbling about how now she was truly happy and that she'd finally found true love with her darling gay Mickey: “This is it. For the first time in my life, I am really happy. Finally, I am loved.” But as one article put it:

Not that loved, because despite the long celebrity guest-list, not one of Judy’s famous friends made it to the reception held at Quaglino’s the large and expensive restaurant situated in Bury Street just south of Piccadilly. Several hundred people were invited and only fifty made it to the function.

The glasses of champagne remained largely undrunk and an ostentatious three-tiered cake remained mostly uneaten. “I can’t understand it,” Judy was reported to have said in next day’s Sunday Express, “they all said they’d come”. Even her daughter Liza Minnelli, who had turned 23 just three days before, had called her mother to say “I can’t make it, Mama, but I promise I’ll come to your next one.” Another journalist apparently wrote that the reception was “the saddest and most pathetic party I have ever attended”.

Actually there was one celebrity guest at the wedding – Mickey Deans’ best man, Johnnie Ray. Ray had had hits in the fifties such as Cry and The Little White Cloud That Cried and was famous for the mootable ability to cry on stage earning him the moniker ‘the Nabob of Sob’ or occasionally the ‘Prince of Wails’. In reality, Ray was no close friend of Deans or Garland and the only reason that he was a guest at the wedding was that he was due to open for a brief Scandinavian tour Deans had organised for his new wife four days after the wedding.

Judy Garland was just 47 years old and $4 million in debt when she died. She was buried in New York and, making an effort this time, guests included Lauren Bacall, James Mason, Cary Grant, Katharine Hepburn, Lana Turner and latterly Frank Sinatra who paid all the funeral expenses and presciently said, “Judy will now have a mystic survival. She was the greatest.”

Ironically, considering the effort she put into keeping her weight down, Garland was probably less than 70 lbs when she died. She was so thin that it was said that to keep the waiting photographers non the wiser, when her body was removed from the Cadogan Lane mews house, covered in only a blanket, she was carried out draped over someone’s arm like a folded coat.

Ahh R184, R185 you hopeless dried up cunt. Stupidly posting twice. Are you so bored and desperate that you feel trashing a dead person is fun? Fuck off. As we say here, die in a grease fire.

r185 - that's a great posting - what a sad and pathetic ending for Judy. Here last years were so awful if she had lived I assume they would only got worse. What a contradiction she was - so much talent and so much wasted talent ..

But I do wonder about her being draped over someone arm. 70 pounds is pretty heavy over your arm. And then if they stumbled and dropped her and ... it would have been pretty ugly. I think the story is probably apocryphal but I'm sure Judy would have loved it. She had terrific sense of humor ,,,

I think they should have rolled her in a carpet like Cleopatra

Judy-fans no doubt know the comment June Allyson made about Judy and her men. In one of those documentaries on her she said that Judy, as brilliant as she was, had no common sense about men. June felt that came from Judy's insecurities as a woman so whenever anyone proposed she was so gobsmacked that she just accepted.

According to the bio of Frank Sinatra by Sinatra's butler (posted in instalments here on DL), Judy was giving Sinatra blow jobs almost to the end. Seems hard to believe. I would think she would have given lousy head. Anyway, nice of him to pay for the funeral. I think it was open casket viewing in midtown New York and the line stretched around the block.

r190 - That was a charitable comment by June Allyson. And I agree that Judy was probably hugely insecure. But I think she actively sought and wanted to be with gay men- they provided the obsessive adulation and comfort that she craved ...

Judy's fans at the funeral.

r193 - that's a wonderful clip of Judy's funeral. I'd not see before. They just don't do celebrity funerals like this anymore. The picture of Judy in the opening is so wacky with her rolling her eyes and messy hair she looks like a coked up Liza.

I wish I could find the article about the drama that occurred in trying to make Judy presentable for the funeral showing, presumably for an open casket. Apparently she looked really bad after she died and they had to bring in an MGM makeup artist so that she could be recognized.

r195 - Oh - I'm sure she was pretty awful. I wish someone had taken a picture of her open casket but no camera phones then - cameras were big and bulky ...

R186, it was a computer glitch that caused the double postings, not that I'm obligated to explain anything to the likes of you. You're just a pathetic old Judy queen who can't bear to hear the truth about her. Now go suck Judy's maggot infested cunt, you poor old twat.

Google "Judy Garland Casket Handles" for the article about Judy's funeral prep.

In a way reminds me of the footage of Edith Piaf's funeral - it was almost a state funeral they closed off the streets of Paris and they were lined with people several deep. There are pictures of Edith in her casket wearing a funny little bonnet.

r186 who is "we" ?? is there a fraternity for troll posters. ??

My favorite MGM Judy number is from 'Til the Clouds Roll By, in which she portrayed Marilyn Miller and sang "Who (Stole My Heart Away)?

Everything about that number shows why MGM was simply the best.

Could someone clever please find it and post it?

Many thanks.

R201 here you go.

Till the Clouds Roll By

Judy-fans know that June Allyson had many kind words to say about Judy. She described her as smart, warm, funny and generous. Their friendship at MGM supposedly began one morning when Judy saw June waiting for a bus to take her to the studio. Judy had her own car and driver and, from that day on she came every day and picked up June so that they could go to MGM together. Don't know how long that arrangement lasted.

Edith Piaf was also married to a gorgeous homosexual at the time of her expiratia,.

Edith was also quite wealthy when she expired.

Thanks R198. Here's the link .

We were so distraught by Judy's expiratia that we stayed drunk for the next 7 years!

Judy's empathy for June was particularly generous considering June was brought to MGM to be groomed as the next Judy and she was often used by the execs to threaten Judy's misbehavior.

Though it's difficult in hindsight to imagine how June could have ever been considered superior or even equal to Judy.

r195 -that's a great story but somehow I doubt the funeral home would have needed the services of MGM to deal with judy's emaciated face. Judy was taken to one of the best in NYC and they were certainly used to dealing with very sick people who had died - and they knew how to make dead people's faces look presentable. However it's not uncommon for a person's hairdresser to take care of their hair - they've often been doing for years. ( I had a friend who had lots of old lady clients and he was frequently asked to do their hair when they died. He always said "no." because it freaked him out.) Also, MGM would have been par excellence with her makeup - they may have been asked to do this as well.

I've heard the studios did Marilyn's makeup and provided a wig for her funeral ...

Sigh, how original, a gay man who likes Judy Garland.

R210 go back to mom's basement you 400 pound sack of shit.

r210 - how original ... (sigh)

R211 and R212 are 500 pounds and live in a shipping container. Right behind a Little Debbie's factory. How CONVEEEEENIENT!

Well at least that was sort of funny ..

Long before she died Marilyn Monroe died, she asked her makeup man Whitey Snyder to do her makeup after her death. He said sure, just bring the body back while it's still warm and I'll do it. She later gave me a gold money clip inscribed "To Whitey...while I'm still warm....Marilyn." When she did die he did what he promised; he did her makeup but had to fortify himself by drinking a lot of booze beforehand. A couple of other friends also attended to her. Due to the autopsy her chest was flat and they put some stuffing in her clothing and made her a false bosom. A wig from The Misfits was put over her ruined hair. I thought it was odd to use a wig from The Misfits; her hair in that movie looked very fake and stiff and artificial. She wore a green Pucci dress that she'd been fond of; supposedly Eunice Murray, the very weird woman who'd been Marilyn's housekeeper suggested she wear that (what the hell did SHE have to do with anything?). Marilyn's half-sister Bernice Miracle thought Marilyn should have worn blue or white, but in the end she was interred wearing the green dress. There are images on the internet of dead Marilyn all made up and wearing her green Pucci dress but they're not real. They're just images actually depicting sculpture of the actress created by Italian artist Paolo Schmidlin.

Sometimes photos are taken at wakes!

I always felt sorry for Judy because even though she was a physically passionate woman she always looked like she had a very dry vagina. And when she lost all that weight after she gained all that weight after she lost all the weight she looked like sex would have been very painful, if not dangerous. So she married gay men to protect that poor, raw, dry bit of salt cod and kept on singing. Poor Judy. Poor dry Judy.

R217 you are mentally ill. Why don't you and Donald Trump get together and trash talk women? Fucking pathetic.

r218 - lighten up you phony self-righteous troll .. you should be the one to spend time with Trump - you're both full of shit ...

r18 - and trolls by the very definition or mentally ill - antisocial garbage ...

R220, what??????

We are truly sick of all the 'fish-frendliness' on this board!!!!

Fish(aka str8 females)are vile and disgusting and in our day fish and sisters were mortal enemies............this board is supposed to be for sisters - not lesbos and fish!

^fuck off and die U ancient diseased fag. you embarrass everyone^

Miss r223 has issues!

Attempting to emasculate a man who shows you no interest or won't give you the dick by calling me she or miss is some old queer tactic only encountered on Data Lounge or in old fag films I heard about on DL. You must be almost 80 years old mrs patrick campbell, aka erna, old insane queen. You are well known, you chase handsome HUNG black men like me on other forums........

Women are not your enemy. YOUNG hung and handsome men can't stand gasping old queens for long and you're not rich or middle aged. Shut the fuck up and pay, stay clothed, U may provide oral worship and compliments only. $500 to $25,000. I hope you don't end up beat to death.

M.A.R.Y. !!

R208 - June commented that Judy had more talent in a little finger than all the rest of them combined had at MGM.

r255 - wow - you really have some issues.

r222 - who is "we" ?? Do you socialize with other bitter trolls ??

r227 - too late - thanks for your nice comment but this thread has temporarily been taken over by vile trolls. Check back in a few hours and hopefully sanity will be restored ..

Judy had more pep and bounce to the ounce!

I Dream of Genie

" And she had affairs with other women, even having a sexual relationship with one of her fans..."

That's been documented. Don't take it too hard, dear.

R233 unless you were in the room watching them munching on each others pussies, then it's not documented. You dolt.

r234 - Judy was so high and drunk so often, I'm sure she tried just about everything [sexual] at some point. What's the problem ??

I have a hard time picturing Judy doing anything sexual. She was just not a sexy person. But whatever.

That "casket handles" story was grim. Also seemed embellished. Did that guy tape record the conversation? The funeral home employee seemed to lapse into the writer's voice an awful throughout the course of his storytelling. I was glad to read she was more like 90 lbs at the time of her death and not 70, as had been proposed here upthread.

The funeral story was very sad indeed.

Judy: Child prodigy, amazing talent and very productive early career. Much beloved. Progressive and excessive drug and alcohol use caused erratic career and eventual decline. Personal life also often in shambles. Ups, downs, messy final years, and early death. All this played out in public - her life was an open book. She was a one-person reality show that lasted 35 years.

The public loved Judy and so did most of her peers in the entertainment industry. She died just about the right point to be elevated to legend status - she was going down fast and ugly but the public was spared this final embarrassment ... But she was indeed unique - both in her talent and in her life-story. She became emblematic of the studio system in the 1930s and 1940s which people still find fascinating. People still find Judy fascinating even though she's been dead almost 50 years. Her life will live on for many years because everything she did is on film or audio. Almost her complete life can be listened to or viewed. And there are literally hundreds of books and thousands of articles that will fill in any gaps. It's often said the unexamined life is not worth living. Judy has one of he most examined lives of recent history from her childhood through her death and beyond, she was truly one of the first media celebrities.

Dance Judy! Sing Judy! The world is waiting for your sunshine.

tag line for UK release of "A Star is Born."

Great post R239

Judy was supposedly very sexual, even though she was not sexy at all. Apparently she had a lot of men (and some women). It seemed that she would attract lovers because of her charisma and simply for being the great singer and movie star Judy Garland. She certainly wasn't that physically attractive, at least in comparison with the beauties at MGM.

In an article in "The Atlantic" about Sid Luft called "The Least Worst Man (of Judy's men, he was considered the one who hung in there longest)" he said this of Judy: "She was only five foot tall—just a shrimp of a girl, really—but she had a very sensuous body and, up close, her skin was like porcelain, pure white. I was crazy about her. She had incredibly kissable lips … You don't fall out of love with somebody like her."

Lesbophobic R234, if one of two parties confirms affair, then it's documented. I'm sure you'd accept John Doe's account of affair with Tom Cruise, if there was one.

In addition, one of her female agents, Stevie Phillips, wrote of Garland making a very forward Trump-style pass at her in the 1960s.

Face it: Judy Garland was a bi-sexual promiscuous/drunk/drugged/bi-polar mess.

R191, Sinatra's valet, George Jacobs, embellished and made up tons of stories in his book, such as, he witnessed Garbo and Dietrich making out naked in a pool.

r234 I'm no lesbo, asshole. Stevie Phillips is a cunt and a liar. Unless you were in the room and she was fucking YOU, YOU know nothing, CUNT.

So which one of you know-it-all bitches alerted Heritage Auctions and gave them the correct identification of this? It was called "Spiritual Woman" for weeks - until today. Bastards.

In a league of her own.

Utterly fantastic,

LEGEND!

Wow r242 - I didn't realize Sid Luft and Judy were married for such so long: from 1952 - 1965. She died in 1969.

Jusy

r246 - don't be bitter - the truth will set you free !!

r245 - you really some deep anger issues. Are you on drugs ??

Judy Garland's father was supposedly gay and cheated on his wife. It seems as though Judy and Liza were attracted to gay men throughout their lives. Judy and Liza were both very talented in their own ways, however, it was unfortunate that they both picked up some unproductive behavior patterns (substance abuse, poor love relationships, etc..)

r250 cannot speak English. Are YOU on drugs? Or just stupid?

r2522 - poor thing - there's more to life than trolling DL and yelling at your tv. Maybe your town has public health services that would be of help. Reach out - you seem to be living with so much pain.

r252 - see above and may God help you find a solution to your miserable life ...

r253, r254 you are illiterate. I'll waste no more time on your sorry ass. There's an unopened bag of Cheetos under your bed, in your mom's basement. Go eat them.

Please get help - it out there. And thanks for the tip about the Cheetos !!

r256, you must be really stupid- "it out there". Wow.

Yeah - I type fast - but you're really reaching. The fact is said you were going to let this go and here you still are. Very sad, I wish you well but I have to go ... I can only help people like you so far and then your bitterness becomes toxic. My final comment is one of hope for you; I wish you a wonderful and full life. May you be able to love yourself and find peace. !!

Brilliant comedienne !

R245 = deeply damaged

very talented but deeply troubled and addicted.

Judy I mean

R261, I thought you meant disturbed DL newbie R234, R245, R252, R255, R257 etc (same person) . I disagree about the talented part.

Judy's funny stories were frequently bullshit. The one where she says Ray Bolger, Jack Haley and Bert Lahr tried to shove her in back of them as they skipped down the yellow brick road and the director yells "you three dirty hams! Let that little girl in there!" is fiction. Jack Haley was bewildered by that tale; he said how could we have done that, we were all arm in arm. But it was an amusing story, so Judy would tell it and people believed it.

Liza Minnelli said that's the way she was; always trying to be entertaining and fun, and if making things up made people laugh that's what she would do. She'd also do the same thing with her psychiatrists; make things up during their session. Liza said she admonished her for doing that; the therapy was supposed to be helping her and how could it help her if she lied to her psychiatrists? But Judy didn't want anyone to be "bored" with her, even a psychiatrist, so she would make up dreams and situations that she thought might be interesting. No wonder Judy never benefited from therapy.

Very sad. Thats how Judy sought validation from people (off-stage and on) - by entertaining them.

She once described herself as a piece of meat that sings.

r265 Judy was a performer. Like it or not. Performers perform! Duh.

One thing worth noting is in the next-to-last act of her life (the final act being the post-series years), is just how tangled the web was.

Sid and Begelman/Fields were responsible for the career high points during these years, but were also digging the debt hole backstage that she could never get out of. So while things were bright and shiny on the front, there was simultaneously all kinds of business mismanagement going on along with personal ups and downs and mothering three children.

The early 60s through the end of the series were banner years and a busy time for her where she was earning top dollar and very much a mainstream cultural icon: another Oscar nom for NUREMBERG, the Grammy for CARNEGIE HALL and its impressive sales and live tour, the top-rated TV specials and the much-anticipated series…she was having concurrent, big success in every form of entertainment: film, television, recordings, and live appearances.

Judy knew about the Begelman/Fields theft; of Begelman (with whom she had an affair) she said, very practically, "so he steals a few hundred thousand—I’m going to make $24 million off these shows.” Her contract for THE JUDY GARLAND SHOW, had it played out completely, would have left her not just rich, but a truly wealthy woman who would not have needed to work again, ever. That $24M contract would be $189M today.

While Begelman/Fields were stealing from the work side in the early 60s, Sid was more or less stealing or mismanaging from the personal side. Sid gambled and would do things like book her on a tour that couldn’t even recoup its costs, but she had to play the dates anyway to keep from being sued for not appearing. She was not very well taken care of on tour either, she’d go to venues and just play with whatever the house sound system was.

This is not to say that none of it was her fault. It’s a shame she couldn’t get into a lasting marriage during that period with a man who truly was not dependent on her for income and had no need to use her. Though she was smart, she was not smart about business or of a mind to bean count or really deal with business specifics. She was down front and center delivering the talent, though. No question about that. The woman worked. Look at her concert schedule even in most of those bad late 1960s years where her reputation really takes a beating, and she was still showing up for a lot of dates.

We still would like to see her CBS contract for the TV series -why is this so impossible to obtain, does it not exist?

Ask John Fricke. I'm sure he has a copy.

Maybe if Lena Horne had done the right thing and divorced Lennie Hayton, R267, he would have made a perfect husband for Judy since he was a devoted homosexual who worshiped his abusive wife.

R131 That is a terrible version of the song. She is rushing the lyric. It's as if she is singing in a language she only knows phonetically.

r266: YOU get a brain. Healthy performers can "turn it off" when they aren't on camera or on a stage. Judy was largely incapable of that.

R272 YOU leave your mother's basement you fat dirty fuck.

Goodness, fans can be so touchy,

Goodness has nothing to do with it.

But it does my heart good to see that even autistic children like r266/273 can be Judy fans.

Poor lil' thing, so angry that he was born too late to have been an extra in A CHILD IS WAITING. ....

I just saw the original Judgment at Nuremberg made for Playhouse 90 and broadcast in 1959. Judy's Irene Hoffman was first Maria Wallner and played by Marketa Kimbrell .

Garland was a talented, but silly ham.

Only really old queens care about her.

My absolute favorite singer and actress. I heard the Carnegie Hall album at 12 and have been a huge fan ever since.....

I know, MARY!

We know ever single word, note and beat of Carnegie Hall, Judy at the Palace, and Born in a Trunk - and have since childhood!

R280 is Mrs. Patrick Campbell. Quelle Horreur!

Mrs Patrick Campbell belts Swanee as he writhes on an orange shag rug, smearing his toros with vagrant excrement, in the 70s classic adult film "More Fudge Daddy!"

I wish MPC HATED Garland. It kind of ruins it for me.

There have always been gay rumors about Brent Spiner, the snarky actor who played Data on ST:TNG. There's a picture of him when he was a very gawky teenager; he's with a celebrity whose show he'd seen. And the celebrity was...Judy Garland! Well, I can certainly understand those gay rumors. A fan of Judy Garland's as a teenager...well, I guess that settles that.

There are rumors on the interwebs that Brent Spiner once raped a cat.

I seriously doubt there are rumors on the internet that Brent Spiner "raped a cat." He does appear to hate them, though. Those dumb Trekkies...at all those conventions he goes to (and he goes to a lot of them) they always ask the same questions over and over and they've asked over and over about the poor cat (or cats) who played Data's pet Spot. Spiner always goes off on a tangent about his dislike of the poor cat (seems the animal would not do things on command, as cats are wont to do) and once actually said "I HATED that cat." The audience booed him. Now he addresses the rumor that he hates cats (wow, I wonder how THAT happened) and says no, of course he doesn't hate cats, he LOVES cats. Uh huh. Anyway, he's always seemed like a snotty closet queen to me. A friend of Dorothy.

R286= thread killer. At least Garland was great, unlike so many so-called "icons" today.

Even though I am a Garland fan, I did see Streisand early in the Broadway runs of I CAN GET IT FOR YOU WHOLESALE and FUNNY GIRL. She's much better singing while play a character on Broadway than in films or in concert.

"I wish someone had taken a picture of her open casket but no camera phones then - cameras were big and bulky ..."

Not true. There was always the compact Kodak Instamatic - I took it everywhere!

BUUUUUMMMPPP

Garland cared when she performed, and her taste and control ensured that when everything was working right - meaning the audience had turned her on - she could do what almost no other performer could. She could present old genres of song as fresh without doing anything unconventional, and her performance skills improved over time. Her "Rock-a-Bye Your Baby with a Dixie Melody" is an example. The Palladium performance recordings are just a warm-up to what she did at Carnegie Hall a decade later. She somehow sang a 1918 song, the rankest old hazelnut imaginable, disgustingly famous from the mouth of Jolson, and it became an impassioned summoning of the fabled South without camp, cringe of offense. Her crooning, bellowing, cagey timing and all - fully conventional, fully funny (in a way) and completely straight - ends with an echo of Jolson's and every 1920's vaudeville song-climax-milker and comes across as utterly committed and affecting.

(Pause for "Mary")

Her acting ability is one thing. It was her belief in what she was doing and faith in herself that sold her singing. She was impassioned and authentic in a way no performer is now, because of commercial focus, self-regard, ego, technology, lack of long grooming, and cynicism. More than anything, maybe, people can't go for broke Garland's way because they don't have the chops. Glissando, screech and long-held notes in a trilling three-scale trumpeting doesn't do it because the humanity is lacking.

And performers and audiences now don't even know what authenticity and humanity in performance mean. Leave it to a dead, drug-addled wreck of a soul to show them.

(Another "Mary" is called for. I may be spitting purses but one wonders at how the shits can think they're "ironic" when they don't understand what they're commenting on. You can't skip time and education even in popular music and arrive at a "so bored" pretense. Because that just leaves you a life-long teenage girl trying to outdo her tedious friends at virginal hauteur.)

R291 are you John Fricke? WOW great post!

It's probably just as well that there are no photos of Judy lying in her casket. Pictures of her shortly before her death showed her looking like a wizened hairless monkey. Can you imagine what she must have looked like dead? It doesn't present a pretty picture.

Anonymous : you never got the attraction, didnt like Judy Garlands voice, CONGRATULATIONS ‐----- you are one in a million

[Quote] Aretha Franklin: Judy Garland was the Queen of Soul. She was in a class by herself. (Yes, ReeRee actually said that.)

I'm gonna need to see some Ree-ceipts on that one.