'Playing Joan Crawford ruined my career': Faye Dunaway, 75, says Mommie Dearest changed the way Hollywood thought of her

Bitch please! She should be damn glad she had such a memorable role.

I thought it was an okay movie. Cheesy and campy but entertaining.. She's a terrific actress. I don't think anyone else could have done a better job

I thought Faye was superb in that movie.

I'm going to venture a guess that her diva like behavior affected her career more than that movie, mixed with fewer roles as an actress ages.

IFC played Mommie Dearest for 24 hours this past Mother's Day. People love the movie--whether or not it's for the reasons she prefers, people love the movie. It's given her a legacy with the general public that none of her "Better" roles could have accomplished. Film critics and movie buffs will still be familiar with movies like Network, but Mommie Dearest is the only movie that will be passed down from generation to generation. She should be glad that she will always be remembered so well.

Being a -real life-bitch is what ruined her career

And she thought she was going to walk away from it.

Faye Dunaway has always been one of the best. Great, great actress.

If that role killed her career, it looks like just one grand maul will finish her off for good. Mary!

She was wonderful as Megyn Kelly in "Network."

I think her role in Supergirl a few years later might have helped a bit.

It's the main role and film she'll be remembered for. Not BONNIE & CLYDE or NETWORK. I suspect CHINATOWN will remain a legendary film for quite some time, though.

The trouble is she looked less like Joan Crawford than a made-up version of herself. And she acted the Diva in that movie as we kind of figured she acted in real life (a director's nightmare). So, she's right, we identified her with that role and unfairly typecast her because of it.

She will be remembered for her foray into Crawfordville, Bonnie and Clyde and Chinatown, but that's about it.

A lot of actresses, including people like Paltrow, would sell their souls to have such an iconic role.

The critics at the time thought Dunaway did a better job portraying "Mildred Pierce" (actually rehearsing the part) than Crawford herself!

I saw Mommie Dearest when it first came out. In a large theater, it didn't seem as overwrought and campy, back then.

Faye's problem was that she couldn't handle the transition from sex symbol to character actress.

Back at the height of Evita craze, Faye did a tv movie playing Evita. It played over two nights because it was over 3 hours long (with no songs, Patti LuPone).

I give her more credit than being a sex symbol. She was always very talented and a leading lady almost from the start.

I think Faye needed a VERY strong director, to reign her in.

Otherwise, she could be a total ham.

While extremely entertaining, her acting in Mommie Dearest is playing to the balcony -- in another theater -- in another city.

And I think she overacted her tits off in Network.

She was much better in Chinatown and Bonnie and Clyde.

Is R9 the Grand maul troll? I'm seeing this bad spelling showing up in other threads and it's disturbing.

What a shame she can't come to terms with the legend that Mommie Dearest has become. It's a bad movie, but it's in no way a hated bad movie, like anything from Michael Bay. I wish she could embrace what a cultural milestone Mommie Dearest has been, especially for the gay community. Everyone I know LOVES Mommie Dearest.

For me, I saw Mommie Dearest before I ever knew who Joan Crawford was. When I got into Mommie Dearest, I immediately started devouring Joan's movies. I've seen almost all of Joan's 80+ movies because of Mommie Dearest. I love Joan. She'll always be my favorite Hollywood Stah.

The problem with Mommie Dearest is that Joan really looks nothing like or sounds nothing like Joan. She made Joan a caricature. Joan is inimitable, unlike Bette Davis or Kate Hepburn or Lauren Bacall or even Olivia DeHavilland. When people imitate Joan Crawford today, they're really just imitating Faye as Joan.

I'll never grow tired of watching Mommie Dearest. I'd rather watch that campy schlockfest over and over again than "great" films the Godfather, Lawrence of Arabia or anything in the Criterion collection.

R18 Thank you about that comment regarding Network. She was way to over the top and not at all convincing as some damaged network bitch just a cheap caricature. She missed a lot of the nuance needed.

[quote] The problem with Mommie Dearest is that Joan really looks nothing like or sounds nothing like Joan.

Obviously I meant that Faye looks nothing or sounds nothing like Joan.

Link please, R15.

Look for it yourself you lazy slob

" Oh, I know what you mean. I too had so much potential, then I chose to star on GiLLiGAN'S ISLAND and that television series took it all away. I could have been another SARAH BERNHARDT ! "

R25 Tina, I know you are trying to save money to pay next month's light bill, but turn a light on for a moment when applying make-up, hon.

" I'm cray cray about you Monica ! "

TY HARDON'S best moment in acting

The slings and arrows of fate she has suffered since MD prove that she did much to incur the wrath of Ghost Joan!

r23 Pauline Kael, critic for "The New Yorker" wrote that review describing Dunaway's performance. The link is too long to be included in this post. I hope your fingers aren't broken.

Supergirl ruined many more careers than just Faye's. Brenda Vaccaro, Peter O'Toole, Hart Bochner. The only reason Mia Farrow survived was because of her relationship with Woody.

Yes, I'm sure Brenda Vaccaro's career was ruined by Supergirl. Those tampon commercials she was doing at the same time were a real boost to her career.

Faye Dunaway gives a startling, ferocious performance in Mommie Dearest. It's deeper than an impersonation; she turns herself into Joan Crawford, all right, but she's more Faye Dunaway than ever. She digs into herself and gets inside "Joan Crawford" in a way that only another torn, driven actress could. (She may have created a new form of folie a deux.) With her icy features, her nervous affectations, her honeyed emotionalism, Dunaway has been a vivdly neurotic star; she has always seemed to be racing--breathless and flustered--right on the edge of collapse. In Mommie Dearest, she slows herself down in order to incarnate the bulldozer styles in neurosis of an earlier movie era; her Joan Crawford is more deliberate and calculating--and much stronger--than other Dunaway characters. As Joan the martinet, a fanatical believer in discipline, cleanliness, order, Dunaway lets loose with a fury that she may not have known was in her. She goes over the top, discovers higher peaks waiting, and shoots over them, too. Has any movie queen ever gone this far before? Alone and self-mesmerized, she plays the entire film on emotion. Her performance is extravagant--it's operatic and full of primal anger; she's grabbing the world by the short hairs....

".... Dunaway brings off [the] camp horror scenes--howling "No wire hangers!" and weeping while inflecting "Tina, bring me the axe" with the beyond-the-crypt chest tones of a basso profundo--but she also invests the part with so much power and suffering that these scenes transcend camp . . . Dunaway takes this star-machine Joan Crawford and shows you that she isn't evil or inhuman--she's frighteningly human....

"....Dunaway sees a grandeur in Joan Crawford, and by the size and severity of the torments she acts out she makes Crawford seem tragic. After Michael Redgrave played the insane ventriloquist in Dead of Night, bits of the character's paranoia kept turning up in his other performances; it could be hair-raising if Faye Dunaway were to have trouble shaking off the gorgon Joan.”

Pauline Kael

New Yorker, October 12, 1981

[italic]People[/italic] described Faye's performance as "the kind of bravura acting Robert DeNiro exhibited in [italic]Raging Bull,[/italic]" and Janet Maslin of the NYT said she performed "a small miracle."

There is nothing else quite like her performance in Mommie Dearest. It's an example of a performer committing fully and going to the edge. It's a voyeuristic film. You feel uncomfortable watching it. I think many who have grown up in abusive homes can relate to the fear Christina and her brother experience during Joan's nightly tirades.

I agree with these critics. I think that Joan was Faye's greatest role. Her performance is campy, but it's also sad, thrilling, and terrifying. It is amazing.

'[quote]The trouble is she looked less like Joan Crawford than a made-up version of herself.

Yes, but the same could be said for Joan Crawford herself.

I thought one of the best things about the movie was showing the transformation from Joan the civilian to Joan The Star.

Huh, r36? Mommie Dearest isn't about Joan's ascent to stardom. It starts in 1939, when she had been a huge star for over a decade.

I didn't see it in R32, but Kael did indeed say that watching Faye do the scene in Mildred Pierce was watching it being done by a real actress. Kael has written some very influential reviews but this one doesn't seem to be one of them. Dunaway's performance is still considered camp.

R37 That's not what he meant.

I am not. one. of. that. movie's. faaannnnnnnzzzzzzzzz!!!!

Hollywood Royalty? HOLLYWOOD ROY-AL-TYYY???!!!!!!

Hollywood (particularly the old, established Hollywood) was aghast at the book, and shunned Christina Crawford, so I'm guessing that if the film hurt Dunaway's career, it could be due to her being a part of what was considered a distasteful airing of dirty laundry within a Hollywood culture that had always been committed to covering up any "unpleasantness". That, and she was already well-known for being difficult to work with.

"[R18] Thank you about that comment regarding Network. She was way to over the top and not at all convincing as some damaged network bitch just a cheap caricature. She missed a lot of the nuance needed."

There's very little room for nuance in a Paddy Chayefsky script.

I've never seen mommie dearest but its original full length trailer is fkin epic. Pure comedy. OMG how could one not see this would be a sort of subversive black comedy. Its so over the top.

[quote]It's a voyeuristic film. You feel uncomfortable watching it. I think many who have grown up in abusive homes can relate to the fear Christina and her brother experience during Joan's nightly tirades.

As over the top as the movie can be at times, this is the reason why I cannot sit back and enjoy it as a camp. There are too many moments that really capture what a child goes through when subjected to an abusive parent. I can appreciate Dunaway's performance, but it is not one I enjoy watching or want to see multiple times.

What about the Lloyd Webber stupidity?

Were there really that many people still in Hollywood in the '80s (and in positions of power) who gave a fuck about the old guard, though? I thought it was all film school geeks and accountants by then?

She gave an over-the-top scene chewing performance in what basically was a TV movie

An actor should be able to gage the production and have the foresight to see how it will come out before using one's entire arsenal of acting abilities at once. It was overkill for a forgettable film.

[quote] She gave an over-the-top scene chewing performance in what basically was a TV movie

THAT. Is a LIIIIIIIIE!

Call it "karma" for Dunaway's complicity in desecrating Crawford's life. I would call that a wash.

R46, I agree with your first paragraph but not the second. It is the director's job to direct the actor's performance in line with the rest of the film. If her scenery chewing was seen as over the top, the director should have reined her in.

It wasn't playing Joan Crawford that did the damage. It was becoming the Faye Dunaway she became that did it. But she won an Emmy in the meantime, so it hasn't all been hate. It's just been dried-up parts, on the screen and in her sad panties.

Yes, but the director was known as an actor's director and the bulk of his work showed that. My guess is Dunaway wasn't listening to anyone at that point in her career and Perry (who was an excellent director) just threw up his hands and gave up.

I notice that the millennial-type loosers (look it up) now are basing their entire aesthetic sense on previews.

[quote]R42: but its original full length trailer is fkin epic.

How nice. Two punctuation errors, a slob-abbreviation, and a declaration that, despite not seeing the film, she DID see the preview. FULL-LENGTH trailer.

The fact that the film and performance were wonderful doesn't excuse twats from braying how smart they are for knowing what something they have not experienced is.

She was terrific in MD. I think her career stalled because she was (is) so difficult- I gather kind of nuts. Of course she is not going to admit that.

I saw Faye in person in the mid-90s, at the Miami International Book Fair when she was pushing her autobiography. The event took place in a small auditorium and was styled as interview, with a man asking questions about Faye's life and career. There was no discussion about MD. Faye seemed very nervous, lots of fidgeting and shifting in her chair, but she gave all of the questions consideration, At the end there was a question and answer session with the audience and right at the start this man said how great she was in MD and the whole place burst into spontaneous applause. You could see that Faye was a little bugged, but she was gracious and she offered what some have already said here: that sometimes an actor needs a director to rein them in and she did not have that in Frank Perry.

Dorothy Faye Dunaway has never seemed to come to terms with her poor Southern roots - having grown up on a farm in a rural area of North Florida. Her gnawing ambition to be seen as a grand, glamorous movie star has almost always overshadowed any character she has tried to create on screen.

I always found her sort of affected upper-class lockjaw accent particularly annoying. And she's a huge self-involved bitch - who has taken herself and her career way too seriously.

Oddly enough, I think those of some of the main qualities Dunaway has in common with Crawford - the shame about her humble background, the gnawing ambition, and the ruthless sense of self-importance. Unfortunately, none of those things seemed to really help Dunaway get inside the character of Joan Crawford - like Crawford she's unable to be that self-aware or introspective.

So her performance in "Mommie Dearest" came across like another over-the-top, drag queen version of Crawford, in which she simply exaggerating all Crawford's most obvious mannerisms and worst behaviors. I remember nothing subtle, vulnerable, or nuanced in Dunaway's performance that would've rounded out or added texture to the complexity of who Joan Crawford really was.

When you overact in a flop and look like Groucho Marx in drag, yeah, it does tend to hurt your career.

I never worshipped 'Network' because every single actor in it went way over the top. I don't find Howard Beale inspirational, just sad, and that woman who played William Holden's wife was cringe-inducing.

That being said, Faye Dunaway was an exceptional beauty.

I think her star days were coming to an end anyway... She's actually given some very good performances since in indies like Barfly and Drunks (perhaps the warmest she's appeared on screen), and even on the urban TV series Soul Food. I wish she would get one more great part to rip into, I know she wanted to do Master Class for years but I think Streep got attached to another production of it and her version was canned. HBO or Netflix should throw her a bone.

[quote]It's the main role and film she'll be remembered for. Not BONNIE & CLYDE

Her Bonnie Parker is often considered one of the most beautiful characters ever to grace the screen.

R16 I remember when she presented Patti with her Tony for EVITA in 1980. Of course, making it all about herself. Then a year later, she starred in that TV miniseries.

For some reason, it's no longer on YouTube anymore, but the beginning was cringeworthy, with Faye's pretentious and longwinded opening.

TV spot for EVITA PERON miniseries.

And here's the full movie, in 14 parts.

[quote]And I think she overacted her tits off in Network.

[quote]She was much better in Chinatown and Bonnie and Clyde.

Agreed about NETWORK. I don't get the praise for that OTT performance. And, of course, she wins her Oscar for that tripe!

My favorite performance of hers is BONNIE AND CLYDE. She was so fresh and natural and unaffected. She was good in CHINATOWN, too, but by then (7 years later) she was already acquiring the Faye Dunaway persona.

My post was also aimed at R21.

Faye is a very lucky woman. How many actresses have appeared in four bona fide classics: Bonnie And Clyde, Chinatown, Network, and Mommie Dearest.

[quote]Oddly enough, I think those of some of the main qualities Dunaway has in common with Crawford - the shame about her humble background, the gnawing ambition, and the ruthless sense of self-importance.

Folie à deux, as someone upthread said.

R65 not to mention that BONNIE AND CLYDE was a landmark film that ushered in the New Hollywood.

The fact that she acted like the most entitled bitch that ever bitched might have had just a bit to do with her career demise

I always loved the EYES OF LAURA MARS!

Faye Dunaway ruined Faye Dunaway's career. What a shame, as she was a great actress and gorgeous too. If she can get her shit together, she just may have another great role in her to bring her back.

She was already 40 years old when she took her foray into camp. Maybe everybody thought she was going into Baby Jane territory.

If you're the one that made that ridiculous statement R24, then you prove it-and if the Pauline Kael excerpts were meant to prove it-nowhere in the excerpts is "Mildred Pierce" even mentioned.

I also feel like a victim, but of course not nearly to the same extent she has been. Her suffering has been legendary.

[quote] How many actresses have appeared in four bona fide classics: Bonnie And Clyde, Chinatown, Network, and Mommie Dearest.

Don;t forget Eyes of Laura Mars, which has a huge cult following.

R74, meet R69

She's responsible for what happened to her career afterward. Many actors have bounced back from infamous roles.

" Same thing happened to me after I played in WHATEVER HAPPENED TO BABY JANE ? With my extensive career the only thing that fans would ever ask me to quote was 'I think you'll find him very well qualified' or 'I'll just tell them that I'm Mr. Flagg's secretary' , 'Your mum would make a very good secretary at that !' Oh, and that CRAWFORD creature was a horror on the set !! "

American Horror Story: Faye Dunaway's Answering Machine!

"Playing Joan Crawford WAS my career"

Here it is R72: "In a scene in which Joan (Crawford) is rehearsing for 'Mildred Pierce,' (Faye) Dunaway looks like her, but you're aware of an enormous difference: this is 'Mildred Pierce' with a real actress in the part."

-the-crypt chest tones of a basso profundo--"

Basso profundity? Why, I oughta slap your head, you assholio profundo.

Thank you to R32 and others for sharing those reviews of Mommy Dearest from Pauline Kael and others. I'm in my early 30s and only 'discovered' Mommy Dearest 10 years ago and, at that time, the 'legend' of this massive artistic and commercial failure had set in. It's interesting, then, to read how some of the most respected critics of the day were able to appreciate this performance in a way that history has not. Interestingly, the charges leveled at Faye could apply to so many of Meryl's performances to this day. I recall a year or two ago someone posted a more recent interview with Faye on here in which she talked about Mommy Dearest as almost a kabuki-style of performance. She seemed to have come to peace with it at that time. Would be nice to see her land a juicy supporting role on a prestige cable drama. Obviously, her film days are behind her.

Also, I guess I'm the only person on here who unabashedly loves Network. It's my favorite film of the 70s and, in no small part, due to Faye's wonderful performance. I'm kind of surprised to read all the hate for her performance on here. Would that performance have worked in a more naturalistic film? No, of course not, but for Network I thought it was absolutely perfect. Today, it might be the kind of heightened performance one sees in a Tarantino, Wes Anderson or even a Coen Brothers film.

Why doesn't any of you old queens want to talk about that Kusturica movie I was so brilliant in, that was the hit of all the Europe and Cannes, but wasn't well sold in this country!?

The one good thing about the campfest that is Mommie Dearest is it has kept Joan's name out there far longer than it would have been otherwise. I always thought Joan was very underrated as an actress. She never had the range of characters she could play, like arch-rival Bette Davis, but she could do two things Bette could not: she could be subtle, and she could play comedy.

When Dunaway bellows "this is wonderful, this is WONDERFUL, " you can't help but laugh.

I agree with R55. Also Joan was a petite woman. Faye looked like a sumo wrestler in MD

A real portrayal of Joan as yet to be made, one which shows her obvious vulnerable side

How do I forward this to Jess? I'm not very internet savy.

It's a bad movie, but a respected and liked bad movie. Her performance is recognized as stellar and it's a shame she feels this way. It also introduced her to a new generation. Her claim it ruined her career is not really warranted as she kept working all along and has had a brilliant and long career, certainly one of the longest in Hollywood especially for women - it's not like the roles stopped coming in.

Mommie Dearest actually got some good reviews and major awards.

It was Supergirl and The Wicked Lady and turning 40 and the diva antics etc. that stalled her career

Even in the trailer one can see they're moments of brilliancy. But its never quite reeled in. So its all seems so camp. Perhaps the subject material itself, and at times its seem to come from the child's point of view.

Jane Fonda was offered the leads in both Bonnie and Clyde and Chinatown. Whatever regrets FD has about her career, she can't deny that she has been very, very lucky.

I still remember when MD opened--and got raucous laughs in all the unintended places; the amazing thing, though, was seeing how quickly the movie's marketeers turned on a dime, revamping the campaign, rushing out print ads that showcased the "No more wire hangers!" quote, and adding this provocative tag line: "The Biggest Mother of Them All." (Christina Crawford was saidf to be incensed by this.)

Neither Frank nor Faye set out to produce high camp, but that's what they got. To her credit, Faye has obviously mellowed in her attitude toward the film. It's the thing for which she will be best remembered.

As for "Evita Peron"--wow. I forgot all about that--looking forward to watching. FD looks perfect (visually) in the role. Imagine, if she'd been able to sing: Broadway history might have taken a very different turn (and she would have been spared her eventual humiliation at ALW's hands with Sunset Blvd.)

r48 = the late Ginger Rogers

It's called bone structure bitches.

"Christina, Christopher, Dammit!" "They think I'm slipping" "Now, Helga, I'm not mad at you, I'm mad at the dirt" "I can handle the socks" "Give me another drink and I'll be alllright"

R94 Hillary C.

Hell, even "Corporate headquarters are in New York" has a gloss and sheen it wouldn't have otherwise--simply because Faye is uttering the line.

And I've long maintained that her reading of, "Don't fuck with me, fellas!" is genius--because of the way she says it, stressing the words in an unexpected way ("fuck" is not given primary stress).

1 award 3 nominations.

That is a pretty good career.

The movie execs should have said, "we know you're a drunk and we have your porno pictures. We loved the one of you with the donkey."

What happened to her plans to write a book about the experience of making MD?

She has three films in the American Film Institute's Top 100 American Films of All Time: 21. Chinatown; 42. Bonnie & Clyde; 64. Network. Add to that two lesser but still great movies: Three Days of the Condor and Eyes of Laura Mars. That's a damn good record by any measure.

That seems to have now been a ploy to get Rutanya Alda not to release hers.

Since most of the would-be Rex Reeds here don't seem to understand the prophetic Network, it's a good thing their reviewing is limited to Datalounge.

r102=smugly superior in every way

who should ruin their career by playing Faye Dunaway?

Lindsay Lohan should play Dunaway. She doesn't have a career to destroy anyway, and at the rate she's going she'll soon look as old as Dunaway.

One: Perhaps, Faye Dunaway's best performance was in the PBS production of HOGAN'S GOAT with Robert Foxworth. Her performance off-Broadway in HOGAN'S GOAT with Ralph Waite was one of her breakout roles.

Two, I have never gotten DL's obsession with Joan Crawford.

This notion that the movie industry was angry at Dunaway for making Mommie dearest is not correct. It was Old Hollywood that felt that way--the survivors of the sweep-it-all-under-the-carpet school like Olivia de Havilland or Myrna Loy who felt offended, and they had no power by the 1970s.

As many here have said, it was Faye herself that hurt her. She was notoriously difficult to work with. Producers, directors, and actors all wanted somebody else for various roles for that reason.

That said, one does notice a strange tendency by the director to hold Dunaway's close-ups for far too long. That moment at thye very start when she is called to the set for the ice-skating movie, for instance. It's not a moment. It'[s an hour. Eventually, the director's campy glorification of stardom starts to feel as if Dunaway is doing it herself.

It's not a great movie, but it is fascinating and she is very good in it, even if it's sort of unnuanced villainy all the way through. But that's what the script demanded.

I saw Dunaway on stage in NY in Hogan's Goat, and she was really, really good. Raw and odd in a raw and odd part. You could just tell that Hollywood was going to sweep her up. I was very young (taken by my parents), and I normally didn't remember performances by actors that well then. However, that one stayed with me.

Interesting point about the close-ups; I noticed that, too. When she swivels around in the makeup chair for the big reveaL, it's as if the prolonged take is meant to hammer home the significance of the impersonation--to Dunaway's detriment, as it turns out. I remember seeing many of Crawford's films (post Mommie Dearest--Thanks, TCM!) and being struck by how beautifully she photographed: the camera really did love her, and I realized how strong an impression Dunaway had made as Crawford--to the detriment of both, in that case.

Crawford really did deserve better treatment. Old Hollywood knew a hatchet job when it saw one. And Dunaway is correct in concluding she's paid a heavy price for it.

Ultimately it's Crawford's career longevity that wins the day: watch her in Rain--and then Mildred, for example, to take in the full breadth of her staying power. Nope, they sure don't make them (movie stars) like that anymore, as Faye surely knows firsthand.

(As an aside, I always thought the somewhat Asian cast to Dunaway's eyes was her most intriguing feature; one can really see that in the Evita Peron TV movie.)

If you're ever around an older crew guy in Los Angeles, ask him if he has any Faye Dunaway stories. They all seem to have a different one. Faye did a sitcom with Robert Urich. She had to do a scene sitting in a dunk tank. I guess that week's writer hated her too. The crew warmed up the water with their own piss, and Faye loved how warm the water felt. I can't remember if she complained about the water being too cold, or it was just overall bad behavior that caused that.

"If ONLY she had followed my rules."

"Remember, bad things happen to little girls who don't listen to Mommy Dearest."

[quote]Playing Joan Crawford ruined my career

Joan Crawford being Joan Crawford ruined HER career in the last decade

Faye is still a great actress.

Even after MD, she gave one of her best performances in Barfly.

She was also excellent in the TV movies Cold Sassy Tree and her supporting turn in Gia.

R102, Rex Reed loved Network AND Mommie Dearest. To make things better, he lives in the Dakota and completely hated Lauren Bacall.

Faye got to work with Johnny Depp and fat Marlon Brando in "Don Juan DeMarco." Even her stinkers had high profile actors.

I bet Faye and Marlon really clashed on the set.

[quote]Also, I guess I'm the only person on here who unabashedly loves Network.

Nope -- I love it to pieces.

[quote]The crew warmed up the water with their own piss, and Faye loved how warm the water felt.

Sure, that could be true... if there were 500 people on the crew and Dunaway had lost her sense of smell.

She was also good in "The Handmaid's Tale" although the movie was not so good.

Anne Bancroft quit Mommie Dearest. Smart move

Anne Bancroft would have been completely wrong as Crawford and would have chewed the scenery, anyway, as she was wont to do from the 1980s on.

I know someone who read Rutanya's book - said it was awful, badly written. About three pages of interesting stuff stretched out to 100.

Anne's take on Joan would have been interesting.

Attended a showing of "Mommie Dearest" featuring Rutanya Alda in Denver.

She wasn't very interesting or enlightening. I had almost forgotten about it.

Of course, Bancroft would have 'over-acted' the part, just as Dunaway did, because the part as written is unplayable, at least in the sense of the character being an actual human being. There is nowhere for an actor to go with that part, it starts on 11 and stays on 11, there is no place for modulation. Bancroft read the script and saw this, hence why she withdrew from the project. Dunaway is neither as smart or as talented as she thinks she is and I suspect that's what got her into trouble with this particular project. That said, this film has nothing to do with her career drying up...she had already had a thankless supporting role in 'The Champ' two years previous, was doing the made-for-tv 'Evita' and the forthcoming 'Wicked Lady' was not a big budget production. Her time had passed, it happens to most.

I wonder if she keeps up with any of her Pi Phi sisters from FSU.

"When I told you to call me that, I wanted you to mean it."

No one does a line reading like miss Faye.

[quote] There is nowhere for an actor to go with that part, it starts on 11 and stays on 11, there is no place for modulation. Bancroft read the script and saw this, hence why she withdrew from the project.

Oh, please. if anything, it would have been catnip to her. Have you missed Bancroft's performances from that era- Fatso, Garbo Talks, Agnes of God, Night Mother, Torch Song Trilogy. She was in her "throw raw meat at me every five minutes or I'll destroy your set" phase. I think she just didn't like the script, but she certainly wasn't worried about playing the film at maximum level the whole time. She lived at maximum level.

I finally presented Miss Bancroft with her Academy Award under the provision that she would never...EVER play me.

"Mommie Dearest" has aged really well, though. I thought it was going to be a cheapish, Diva chewing scenary flick when I got it on Netflix, but that's not what it actually was.

When I watched it, it seemed very "cinematic." The photography was gorgeous. Camp today makes people think of cheap Lifetime movies filmed in a week in British Columbia. This was a legitimate, expensive Hollywood movie with real talent. I think the film will be viewed more positively as time goes on. The weak link, though, are all the actresses who played Christina.

I just watched NETWORK and I think Dunaway's performance was incredible. Not over the top - but perfection.

[quote]The weak link, though, are all the actresses who played Christina.

I thought they were both good in that campy way, especially Diana Scarwid and her intermittent Georgia accent.

R126 I loved her in To Be or Not To Be.

[quote]Ultimately it's Crawford's career longevity that wins the day: watch her in Rain--and then Mildred, for example, to take in the full breadth of her staying power

There's 13 years between the two films, nothing extraordinary about that. And wasn't "Mildred' her big comeback at that time?

[quote] I thought they were both good in that campy way, especially Diana Scarwid and her intermittent Georgia accent.

We called her Suddenly Southern Christina.

"Understaaaaaynd......the first word I evah heard......"

awful or sublime, Mommie Dearest was a real tour de force from her. I think a big unmentioned problem in that movie is the actress playing Christina: she's absolutely awful, I cant believe they chose her for such a crucial role. A better actress would have made a world of difference in all those hyper-dramatic confrontation scenes, and maybe even Dunaway's acting would look less crazy. Does anyone one know why in the hell they chose that atrocious girl for the part?

You realize it's 2 different actresses, right?

yes, i mean Scarwid

Faye dunaway is scary and mean as fuck. Has sharp teeth.

R116, that shows how stories progress. The original story I heard was she had to douse her head in a bucket of water in "The Champ" and a crew member who hated her took a piss in it. The bathtub story has often been attributed to Kathleen Turner in "Romancing the Stone."

I heard that Faye had a disagreement with Marlon Brando on the set, and so she pushed his fat ass onto the ground, and before he could roll over to stand up, she squatted over him and peed all over his face.

See how these stories morph over time?

"Tear down that bitch of a bearing wall and put a window where it ought to be!" Faye was also not above to guest starring on TV shows, like "Grey's Anatomy".

There are several Mommie Dearest deleted scenes that are sitting in a vault at Paramount and nobody has ever seen them. I don't know why they haven't released a special edition DVD with those scenes, it would certainly be a big seller.

I am old and trust me Faye always had a terrible reputation.

I don't think there is any question that MD was the catalyst that threw Dunaway's career off course. Yes, she had a bad reputation for being difficult to work with (and all the fights, tantrums, nastiness, etc. that goes with that), but she's hardly the first or the last actor to have that kind of a label slapped on them. Having a lot of talent, which Dunaway clearly did have, usually trumps the "difficult to work with" stigma. I think MD and its total hatchet job on Crawford (and its unbelievably poor direction) was the excuse to stop offering her the big roles. She was hardly past her prime, but the one-two combo of a poorly received performance in a poorly received huge film plus what Hollywood insiders generally thought of her proved to be her downfall. Yes, she had sporadic moments of brilliance afterward, but there is no other way to explain her sudden downward shift post-MD.

What I find interesting about MD is that her performance was somewhat lauded early on, but then it seemed to spiral downward, and people just jumped on the bandwagon after that. She won the Razzie that year but she also was named runner-up Best Actress in a few of the nationally renown film critic awards.

It wasn't Mommie Dearest that ruined her career. It was the awareness that she's doing Joan Crawford in everything she's ever done.

It's hard to watch a Faye Dunaway movie and not see Mommie Dearest. The earlier ones are not so hammy. But, please... Evita? Supergirl? Wicked Lady?

Mommie Dearest didn't ruin your career, junkie. You did.

Jealous bitches. Why can't you treat her like any STRANGER on the street?!

Faye was 40 at the time of MD. Actresses' careers always decline after that, and it was especially true in those days.

To me Faye didn't resemble Joan Crawford at all. Both were beautiful women, but Faye is tall and slim with delicate features, and Joan was short, curvaceous with bold striking features. To put those Senor Wences brows on Faye like that, with her small eyes and head and to give her those big horrible hairdos was a big mistake.

I read Faye's autobiography-what an overly detailed BORE of a book it was. She is so over earnest and simply cannot laugh at herself that it was painful to read.

Her son Liam is hot to death though. At least he was about a decade ago.

R145, do you really have to ask?...

Faye's performance in MD wasn't exactly...multi-layered. Her line reading of, "Tina-bring me the a(sk)" She couldn't even pronounce the word axe, she was so busy eating up the scenery.

She gave a wonderful performance in Barfly. She is a talented, striking actress. I also think MD was a tour de force that will grow in stature over the years. Although the script and supporting performances are weak, Dunaway gives us pathos, terror, dark humor, and warmth all within the same film.

[quote]Her line reading of, "Tina-bring me the a(sk)" She couldn't even pronounce the word axe, she was so busy eating up the scenery.

The thing about bullshit is you gotta be careful when there are online resources that call out said bullshit.

She ruined her face with that bad PS though.

[quote]There is nowhere for an actor to go with that part, it starts on 11 and stays on 11, there is no place for modulation. Bancroft read the script and saw this, hence why she withdrew from the project

Any smart actor would have seen how over-the-top the representation of JC was. Faye's ego blinded her and because of it she looked amateurish by being so caricatural. It was clownish.

No r151 at best, it sounds like she's saying "Bring me the Ack"

Barbara, please! Please, Barbara.

Get your ears checked, R154. Seriously.

Faye just can't accept the fact that Mommie was fabulous and her distancing herself from it made her seem like a shrew.

She's a shrew anyway.

If you want modulated, see Meryl.

"It's a voyeuristic film. You feel uncomfortable watching it."

Um, voyeurs like watching things. Maybe you mean it's an exhibitionistic film (like all films) and YOU felt uncomfortable watching it?

It's a snuff film. Seriously, viewer beware!!!

'Barfly' was after 'Mommie Dearest' and she was great in it.

Faye's recollections on Barfly. Shows what an intelligent and thoughtful actress she is IMO.

Being a drunk and a crazy person didn't help Faye's career either.

Is Faye's son her bio child or was he adopted?

Dunaway needs a director who scares the shit out of her. That's why she was so good in Chinatown.

I'm not sure Faye's writing about "Barfly" is all that insightful, or even very smart. A line like, "Barbet’s is a craggy sort of intelligence, like the great French filmmakers..." is really devoid of any meaning.

Can you imagine Sandra Bullock writing such a thing?

BTW it is Miss Dunaway. Not Faye Duaway.

Miss Dunaway is for Miss Dunaway.

Faye is a better actress than Joan Crawford ever was. Joan Crawford over acted everything. She sucked.

I still laugh when I think of that story someone once told about Faye trying to return tapes to a video store, pulling up in her car expecting someone to come out and get them, and then getting pissed off when nobody would, flinging the tapes out the car window, and tearing out of the lot with the tires spitting out dirt and gravel behind her.

She sure did, R170!

Suck that is...

Well, that's arguable r170 (Whaddup, Faye!)--but *playing* Joan Crawford is what got Dunaway's acting compared to a drag queen's.

Calling her performance "Kabuki" doesn't diminish that.

I think Faye's performance in MD is very much akin to Lucy's in 'Mame', critically derided at first, but eventually becoming lauded and appreciated as time and good taste won out over hype and personality. Very similar to what happened with 'It's a Wonderful Life', as well.

Pre Mommie Dearest we thought Faye was a cunt.

Post Mommie Dearest, we thought Faye was a cunt who couldn't act.

[quote] Lucy's in 'Mame', critically derided at first, but eventually becoming lauded and appreciated as time

*SCRATCH RECORD SOUND*

Uh, no. Everyone still drawing breath STILL thinks Lucy's Mame is a mess.

LucyMame lauded and appreciated?

Ooooookaaayyy...

Light the torches!

Get the pitchforks!

'Cause here's Lucy,

Playing Mame...

Lucy's "Mame" was a hot mess.

Lucy/Mame lauded...appreciated....Um, NO

A few months ago I went to see my parents and mommy dearest was playing on one of the channels. The three of us sat there and talked until the "No more wire hangers" scene, and we were all rapt. Extremely over the top, but well within keeping of the tone set by the movie. Fantastic scene, and those leading up to it were interesting too.

After that scene the movie became incredibly dull.

None of us had ever seen the movie, but Faye Dunaway was fantastic. It sucks that people misremember this role as a failure. It was pure ACTING!

It was ACTING, for chrissakes!!!!

It's MOMMIE, not MOMMY!

R170 Joan was a STAR!

Faye, never!

Say it like you mean it, R183!

R183 IT'S MOMMIE DEAREST!

Facebook me bitches

Chesterfields, R188?

Faye actually came in second at the New York Film Critics and National Society of film critics

Back then there were really only four major critics groups so Miss Dunaway did get some respect.

R20, you sound very confused. And I don't agree that the movie is "not hated." I know for a fact that some people hate it, including me, for many reasons but mostly because it's such a horrendous hatchet job on Joan Crawford. Even if everything in it is true (which I doubt), and even if she was a truly vile human being and an awful mother, then someone should have made a SERIOUS movie about all that, rather than a laughable camp-fest with a ridiculous, Kabuki-like performance by FD.

I do like the scene where LB Mayer tells Joan, "It's already been done! All your shit is packed in your car."

FYI, Joan was not fired by Metro. She bought herself out of her contract because she kept getting shit roles and wanted out. Joan getting fired was one of several facts the movie got wrong.

I'll never forgive Andrew Lloyd Weber for denying us Faye's Norma.

I've packed your shit, Joanie. Get out!

Jesus her son is cute. And I've heard that he is family.

Well I certainly didn't use a SURROGATE!!

Jesus has his father's dreamy eyes, but Liam is way cuter.

R193, I believe she bought out her Warner Bros. contract. She was released from Metro by "mutual agreement" which was supposedly to allow her to save face.

Faye was also not above to guest starring on TV shows, like "Grey's Anatomy".

She also made an appearance on one of the CSI franchises several years ago. At the time, her teeth were brand new--and Faye grinned throughout the episode.

David Denby comparing the wire spanking scene in Shoot the Moon to those of M.D. :

"This extraordinary scene, almost Sophoclean in its combined power, complexity, and piteousness, shows up a similar bit of hanger whomping in Mommie Dearest for the flamboyantly absurd atrocity that it is."

I always thought that comparison was spot on. The movie is a freaking circus.

But the sumo wrestling scene in Mommie Dearest made the one in Shoot The Moon look like dinner theater.

And don't get me started on the stump-pulling scenes.

She's terrible in this movie. You can tell she was on drugs and had no idea how to play her.

Joan bought out her MGM contract, not Warners.

Bit he's, Done Fade away only needs Mommies Dearest to go on a franchise.

A special clause of her contract should mention that no cup of urine would be allowed to fly on the set.

Faye trying to resurrect her career by playing a Jewish housewife with a gay son in Twilight of the Golds. Love her fucked up accent.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

True story, r174 : Lucy was asked to play the Joan Crawford role in Mommy Dearest, but Gary Morton talked her out of it.

The film itself is standard made-for-TV stuff, really not good enough for the big screen. Diana Scarwid was atrocious. The little girl who played little Christina was great though.

Now, regarding Faye's performance as Joan. I had a mother who was a little bit of a diva and had rages of the "No wire hangers ever" variety, and Faye nailed it as far as I'm concerned. When someone goes into a tantrum like that you don't know whether to run away or laugh in their face. If you're a child under their control and you don't dare laugh or run away, you are absolutely terrified, humiliated, and disgusted.

My theory is that the people who accuse Faye of being bad or over the top in this role either don't know what they're talking about or do and are in denial. I think she delivered a performance that suited the material, took the risk of making herself look like a clown in the process and paid for it, but she doesn't deserve the ongoing cheap scorn she's gotten. I wish she'd been allowed to be proud of this performance because she was just telling the truth about what brutal people are really like. They're not Hannibal Lecter, they're Joan Crawford.

Of course it did some damage to her career that her "performance" in that execrable film was such a piece of utter exaggerated fiction masquerading as the truth. I am and always was, an original, and simply can't be imitated. Bette was furious when I had to dub my voice for her in BABY JANE. What really hurt Miss Dunaway's career, however, is that she's crazier than a shit-house rat.

The same year MD came out is also the same year Faye turned 40. That had something to do with it, too.

R12, I'm not sure if this has already been stated in the thread, since I haven't read it all, and just now got to your comment, but Mommie Dearest is a film that is reveered on Data Lounge. Outside of DL, people remember Faye for Chinatown, Bonnie and Clyde, and Network. I'm not sure why she believes that Mommie Dearest is her definitive role, because outside of DL, everyone discusses Chinatown as her best film.

And what was I, chopped liver?

It's good to see old Faye is still singing the same tune for the past 30+ years. What she just can't admit is, a big part of her glamorous draw was her physical beauty, and she got old.

She's a good actress as well of course. So in her day people were willing to put up with her tantrums to get the skill and the glamour. But once she started fraying ... why put up with her?

Faye was so gorgeous, and really fucked up her face with the awful work she had done. She should've taken a cue from her contemporary Jane Fonda on how to do cosmetic surgery right.

Christina, bring me the ack!

R134 Scarwid had been nominated for an Oscar the previous year (for INSIDE MOVES) , so that may have had something to do with it.

Faye was supposedly writing a book on the making of Mommie Dearest. What happened to that?

R184 true. Creawford made Quigley's annual list of Top Ten Box Office Champions several times in the thirties, but Faye never dit.

Remember when Faye did that AMA on Twitter two years ago and even said she would answer MOMMIE DEAREST questions? Did anyone take her up on it?

R194 how come?

i love the fact the miss Dunaway is on twitter. For some reason it cracks me up. (alas, her account has not been used since 2014)

Faye was way better in MD than Streep was in THE IRON LADY. Streep was great in the elderly scenes, but for most of the film, she was atrocious. A truly kabuki performance. And yet she won her THIRD Oscar and the film (which was equally terrible) was a hit. Go figure.

Joan was a carpet muncher. Mommie Dearest was totally inaccurate in this regard

R225, I was under the impression that Christina had addressed Joan's carpet munching in the book. I have not read it myself, so I'm not sure.

maybe Crawford's memory wouldn't have been dragged through the mud if she wasn't such a bitch to her kids.

maybe Faye would have had a better career if she were nicer to work with?

Do you think Joan had NPD?

R200, Faye was also not above doing "The Starlet" for WB. Don't call us, we'll call you.

R220, maybe Faye never made the Quigley's list several times in the Thirties like Joan DID because she wasn't born until 1941.

R230 I meant in her heyday.

If her career was ruined, it had NOTHING to do with Mommie Dearest. She was always the shopgirl, who fought her way to the top. She wasn't that little shopgirl anymore...truth is, she was getting old.

Has anyone read Rutanya Alda's book, The Mommie Dearest Diary: Carol Ann Tells All? I'm saving it for an upcoming flight.

[quote]I don't think there is any question that MD was the catalyst that threw Dunaway's career off course. Yes, she had a bad reputation for being difficult to work with (and all the fights, tantrums, nastiness, etc. that goes with that), but she's hardly the first or the last actor to have that kind of a label slapped on them.

She was the first that I ever saw get slammed for being difficult by an even bigger star in public. Didn't Bette Davis single Faye out for being horrible to work with on the Tonight show or some such show?

Has anyone brought up the rumor that Faye was a heroin junkie at the time -- and that is why she got sloppy with her performance?

[quote]Remember when Faye did that AMA on Twitter two years ago and even said she would answer MOMMIE DEAREST questions? Did anyone take her up on it?

I tweeted with her but it was for LAURA MARS, not MOMMIE.

Kabuki is the new Camp.

Eyes of Laura Mars is a steaming pile of dogshit.

Yes R234. Johnny Carson asked her who was difficult and she blasted Faye.

At 10:10 below

"For One Million Dollars - Faye Dunaway. Everybody you can put in this chair will tell you exactly the same thing."

Essential Faye.

that pic is fabulous and iconic.

Rutanya Alda wrote a book? Who the fuck cares about HER? The things some people will do for publicity.

Isn't she married to Alan? That's pretty important. Hardly C-list.

I'll second the person who said that, in real life, when you see someone psychotic behaving the way Faye did as Joan, you want to laugh. It's ridiculous, but it's truthful to how certain kinds of people behave. It's like Piper Laurie in Carrie. I always felt her and Faye's performances were somewhat similar. They walk that fine line between terrifying and hysterically funny, because they're playing crazy so well. They go for broke. Not too many actors will do that. They took big chances and ended up creating iconic roles.

Think about how awful a new Mommie Dearest would be. First of all, it'd probably be made for Lifetime these days, but the actress playing Joan would be so terrified of going over the top that it wouldn't work at all. The same thing happened when Carrie was remade. Patricia Clarkson and Julianne Moore are both phenomenal actresses, but they're takes on Piper Laurie's role in their respective remakes of Carrie put me to sleep. You could feel that they were walking on eggshells and trying not to go into "camp" territory. There are some characters that must be played larger than life. That's how they're written. There's still ways to find shade and nuance here and there, but it doesn't work if they're played like shrinking violets.

Faye's twitter was hysterical.

[quote]Answering one question per day. Make them great and keep it #Classy. The moment someone asks something inappropriate or rude I will stop.

Faye has stated her boundaries.

Bette Davis talks shit about Faye to Johnny Carson, starting at 10:15.

R247, thanks for that. Bette was a funny woman. Very charismatic.

Did Bette suffer from Anorexia? It's very common among the elderly.

I think this scene is one of the most hilarious moments - the actress playing Christina is just so TERRIBLE!

Bette probably hated Faye because she played her archnemesis Joan. So it was more hate aimed at Joan and Faye got caught in the crossfire.

[quote] No contest!

Why must EVERYTHING be a CONTEST?

[quote] Isn't she married to Alan? That's pretty important. Hardly C-list.

No, she's not, nor is she related to them in any way. Alda is her middle name.

[quote] Has anyone read Rutanya Alda's book, The Mommie Dearest Diary: Carol Ann Tells All? I'm saving it for an upcoming flight.

3 pages of interesting stretched beyond recognition

When Christina says "Because I am not one of your FAAAAAAANNNNNNSSSS!!!!" does she mean that she's not one of Joan's devotees or that she herself is not a fan of Joan?

Both

Bette Davis was in the Disappearance of Aimee with Faye in 1976 r250 That's at least four years before Faye did MD.

r248 that Carson appearance wasn't too long before she died. At the time, her cancer had come back and was terminal but the public didn't know until after her death. She was so quick and funny and witty, even in her decrepit state she still commanded your attention and Carson was obviously very fond of her. No celeb today could make such an impact on a talk show like Bette did.

Steve Forrest was a hot daddy.

I would've rode him like a rodeo clown.

You know you're in trouble when a man in drag plays a better Crawford than you do....

[quote] Is [R9] the Grand maul troll? I'm seeing this bad spelling showing up in other threads and it's disturbing.

Why is it disturbing?

I love that post-pic picture of Faye even if it's staged.

She really threw away her potential with drugs but will never be honest about it.

R260 is that a preview of Feud? Same concept, right?

Take this you Joan Crawford apologist CUNT earlier up thread!

Aside from Streisand, Fonda, Minnelli, Goldie and Sally, none of these choices make much sense. Keaton became a big star in the 70s but via Woody and was never a money draw. And Bergen? Bissett? Who made this list.

There's still hope for her to become a real gay icon. She should embrace the campiness of MOMMIE DEAREST and tour around hosting the movie.

It's funny how Mommie Dearest looks like a Ryan Murohy show.

R265 Agreed. Quigley's doesn't list Dunaway on any of its lists for the '70s,

R265, who would you have put on the list. It's a fact that there were so few roles for women and even fewer women stars.

I'll take Faye's performance in MD over Hepburn's in On Golden Pond, Streep in The French Lieutenant's Woman, Keaton in Reds, Mason in Only When I Laugh, and ESPECIALLY Sarandon in Atlantic City.

You never hear those performances referenced today like you do Dunaway's iconic performance.

And I get so tired of the complaint that her acting was over the top. She was playing JOAN CRAWFORD having BREAKDOWNS, subtlety ain't the way to go - and God knows the book wasn't subtle.

Plus - why do male actors get a pass for being over the top or campy? Daniel Day Lewis in There Will Be Blood? Pacino in Scent of a Woman? De Niro in too many to mention....

The IMDb list at R264 was made by a FAN. It's not an official list

Yes I know, that's why I used over the top language in presenting it

It's iconically BAD

It's iconically GREAT.

r270 you have a good point. Nobody could ever play Joan Crawford and not be over the top, because Crawford HERSELF was over the top. She was a total high-strung diva throughout her life. A portrayal of Crawford could never be done with any subtlety. It a biopic of Bette Davis were ever made, the same would be true of her.

Faye played her with one note - screech

Welcome to Datalounge where we make the same three points over and over and over again until there are 600 responses and the next chapter of the thread comes to a close and then a sequel thread is started and a new idea is introduced and people respond to that and then somebody says, "To go back to something in the first thread," or "To add on to something from the original thread," and the three things are repeated yet again.

Faye's diva craziness ruined her career. Faye needed a strong director to reign her in. It was all Diana Scarwid's fault.

To piggy back on something R 277 said, Faye needed a strong director to corral her.

Faye doesn't say MD ruined her career in the People article.

She says: “I think it turned my career in a direction where people would irretrievably have the wrong impression of me,” Dunaway explained of the performance, which reached screens five years after she won her Oscar for Network. “And that’s an awful hard thing to beat,” she said, perhaps referring to Crawford’s diva reputation, which shadowed Dunaway even while making the film. She added, “I should have known better, but sometimes you’re vulnerable and you don’t realize what you’re getting into.” Dunaway concluded, “But you can’t be ashamed of the work you’ve done. You make a decision, and then you have to live with the consequences.”

Faye HERSELF didn't blame Mommie Dearest. She just needed a strong director to reign her in.

Well, the title of this thread has quotation marks around the sentence implying it is a quote from Faye in the article - LIIIEEEES!

Has anybody ever wondered if the movie would have been better if a stronger director had handled Faye in Mommie Dearest? Would she have won an Oscar for Barf-ly?

Dunaway has recently acknowledged that she needed a strong director to reign her in. I didn't even finish watching Mommie Dearest. I don't like Joan Crawford movies. The one who played Joan's daughter was terrible. Crawford looks scary in this film, beautiful but too over the top.

No, nobody on this thread has ever wondered that.

I hope this is still happening.

I'm a fan of HAND OF GOD, and she will be great as the villainous matriarch.

What strong director might have reigned Faye in? Kevin Smith?

Otto Preminger

Inside joke if you know their history from Hurry Sundown

Might Terry Hands have reigned Faye in?

Barbra Streisand should have directed Faye in MD.

That would have cured her of the directing bug and we would have been saved from Yentl and The Mirror has Three Chins

Okay, after googling Terry Hands = that actually is a brilliant idea.

....but then again, the argument must be made - does any gay man, gay woman, or straight movie lover really want a reigned in Faye Dunaway playing Joan Crawford in Mommie Deares?

Not sure if mentioned unthread, but Faye was infamous for driving up to the old Video West in West Hollywood and laying on her horn for a clerk to come out to drop her videos off.

My favorite story is a neighbor of Faye's when she lived on Spaulding stating that he or she saw Faye in the alleyway behind her house screaming at an abandoned refrigerator!

I will always love Faye just for the image it provides me.

I prefer my legendary Oscar Winning actresses to be Norma Desmond crazy, rather than attending political conventions giving everyone the stinkeye, or washing their children's fruits and vegetables to rid them of the pesticides.

My other favorite Faye story is : During the tour for Master Class, the producers hired someone to follow Faye around during the day to make sure she'd be to the theater on time. Faye was driving herself around one day, stopped her car in mid traffic leaving it running, and fled into a Catholic Cathedral to call her producer Bob Whitehead to tell him breathlessly to hurry and send help because she was being followed by a mysterious black car.

It's [italic]rein[/italic] in, not [italic]reign[/italic] in. You would pull a horse's [italic]reins[/italic] to hold back or steer the horse to change direction. [italic]Reign[/italic] is synonymous to rule over such as what a monarch does in order to rule.

[quote]Otto Preminger. Inside joke if you know their history from Hurry Sundown

You mean MY film? Bitch had a career because of roles I turned down after that.

Thank you. That's what I get for typing after a few glasses of wine.

I'm a scat queen that ate a lot of shit during her reign!

Yes Jane, you made SHITTY decisions in the early 70s, but you didn't turn down Bonnie and Clyde because you were preggers.

And Faye turned down the Redgrave role in Julia because as Faye put it to me - I'd call Fonda a cunt but she lacks the warmth and depth.

[quote]Welcome to Datalounge where we make the same three points over and over and over again until there are 600 responses and the next chapter of the thread comes to a close and then a sequel thread is started and a new idea is introduced and people respond to that and then somebody says, "To go back to something in the first thread," or "To add on to something from the original thread," and the three things are repeated yet again.

Wow, did you ever sum up this thread correctly. I was wondering 200 posts ago ifI should stop reading since nothing new was being said. But I couldn't sleep and BBAD is boring so here I am...

But everything old is new again....

Faye looks great in that clip R299. She can't sing but man she had long legs! Cute number.

Dunaway in MD, Streep in The Iron Lady... Either can be declared brilliance, or horrible. I think Faye was unintentionally hilarious. Streep was just astonishing even though the film wasn't great. I certainly can't think of an actress other than Streep who can DO what she did in The Iron Lady.

thank you r301.

Write to me and I'll send you a free screener of Florence Foster Jenkins.

R16, Yes, a better strategy is work up some serious actress cred before going camp, Grotesque Shrew. To go from 0 to 100, her one-woman show should've been something less caricatured. It was easily conflated with the stigma against aging "sex symbols" - they become grotesque shrews overnight, as soon as they become unfuckable.

"Can it be true that one of this generation's greatest actresses, maybe even the greatest—a national treasure, you might say—has never been in a film as good as Network, which isn't even Faye Dunaway's best movie?"

Not sure about now, but years back, c. 1990, Faye was a boozer. A friend of a friend at a party had worked—briefly—as her personal assistant and told me she found empty vodka bottles in her desk. And that she'd crashed her car up on Mulholland Drive late one night.

She also rented/lived in a house in a nice but not star-studded part of LA,, kind of near Beverly Center/Hamburger Hamlet (not the one on Sunset). A friend lived a few doors down from her and said she was a bit eccentric. Taking to the trash in a huff and sweeping the sidewalk at night.

I saw Faye when Sharon Stone got her star on Hollywood Blvd (when Casino came out) and they both looked fabulous.

Bette Davis also lived in West Hollywood, in The Colonial House. Better neighborhood. A friend rang her apartment once by mistake. Bette looked over the edge of her deck and then turned the hose on him. He was standing there soaking wet. She got a kick out of it. He said he heard her famous "Baby Jane" cackle as she went back inside her apartment.

[quote] Has anybody ever wondered if the movie would have been better if a stronger director had handled Faye in Mommie Dearest?

Just the 3,876,567,409,103 other threads on the same topic....

Thank you Faye for your brilliant portrayal of Joan! And thank you writers for giving gay generations to come plenty of laughs and imitations to do. My str8 nephew quotes lines so it is not only gays who adore this campy movie. And thank you costume designer for gorgeous clothes . And thank you Marlon Brando's sister for your right on portrayal as "Barbara".

ffarrrt

Even your farts have a haughty affected sound, Faye.

Sorry, honey,, it's time to hang it up.

Get me a younger actress on line 3!

Faye's home in WeHo.

r213, I disagree. Mommie dearest is like one of those popular films that most people have actually never seen. Buts its epic moments are legendary. It practically created its own genre of thriller/horror even though it was intended as a serious drama. There would be no fatal attraction, and a host of other films if not for MD.

She's embarrassed by how badly camp it turned out to be. She was good in it, but she amped up the camp factor, too. But a lot of it had to do with the production and the other actors.

Ohhhhh! She's embarrassed by THE CAMP FACTOR. Of course. Perhaps a stronger director could have guided her to a masterpiece.

Faye needed a director who could rein her in. No one's straight nephew quotes lines from this stupid film. It's a dull movie aside from the c a m p i n e s s.

The movie needed a long, solo shower scene with Steve Forrest.

And also maybe a stronger director. Anybody ever think of that? Camp. Campiness.

Mmm, Daddy Steve Forrest, long, solo shower scenes...me likey...

And maybe let's give Steve a male love interest...or a dozen...next time...

Let's give R316 a pre-production deal to start working on the "Mommie Dearest" remake.

(And let's stop wasting time making excuses for that dried-up old hag Faye Dunaway.)

Steve Forrest needed a looser director to rain all over.

The only way to "reign" in Faye would be to put a bit in her mouth...

And she'd be hard to fit with a bridle now that she has all those newish fake teeth...

NOT TO MENTION, how Faye embarrassed herself trying to slip in and out of that cringe-worthy Jewish mother accent in the movie clip posted above...they should show that in film schools...AS A WARNING TO YOUNG ACTORS...

Don't try to do unfamiliar accents or dialects if you're not Tracey Ullman. The truth is that even the great "M", as much as she is touted for that particular skill, has been less than convincing on occasion. There are very few people, much less actors, who have that particular gift...

Faye should have had an illustrious career after a network, but she was/is a drug addict and ruined her career. Streep took over and Faye was in a haze.

I guess the Screen Actor's Guild disagrees that Faye was embarrassing in Twilight of the Golds since she got a nomination for Outstanding Performance by a Lead Actress for that performance. But I guess DL knows better than the professional actors that make up the guild.

I wanted Steve Forrest to fuck me in that multiple shower head thing.

Jane was honest in her autobiography about how she regretted turning down "Bonnie and Clyde" after it became such a huge commercial success. I've never heard her blame pregnancy for turning down the role.

She's open about how her marriage to Vadim was in shambles. She was neurotic about approaching age 30. She felt the need to come back to the U.S. to make more movies but it was a hard period for her. Jane was becoming more politically involved and didn't want to be type cast as a bimbo after "Barbarella".

Jane made "They Shoot Horses, Don't They?" about the time - maybe a year or so later - after "Bonnie and Clyde" was released. And I would argue that "They Shoot Horses, Don't They?", while a riskier choice for Jane, is a far better film in every way.

STFU and get over it, Faye!

I love that quote from the disgruntled costume designer, who said that before one approaches Joan Crawford, it's best to throw a raw steak into her dressing room.

Umm, that was Irene Sharaff speaking about Faye Dunaway, R325.

[quote]No one's straight nephew quotes lines from this stupid film.

Several quotes from the film are ingrained in the public consciousness. For example, "No more wire hangers!" Most people (gay or straight) have heard that phrase. You don't have to be gay or have watched the film to have heard it/know it.

[quote]Jane was honest in her autobiography about how she regretted turning down "Bonnie and Clyde" after it became such a huge commercial success. I've never heard her blame pregnancy for turning down the role.

Huh. Four years ago, she was on WWHL, and Andy asked her what was one major role that she auditioned for and was pissed not to get, and she said BONNIE AND CLYDE. So it sounds like it wasn't her choice.

"Several quotes from the film are ingrained in the public consciousness."

Millennials are the largest living demographic and Joan and Mommie Dearest and certainly Dunn Fadeaway mean absolutely nothing to most of them.

Time has moved on, boomers.

R329 what are you, their representative?

Then jump on R327, whose incorrect generalization I was responding to.

Hate seems like a strong emotion.

I work with millennials. Many have no idea who Lucille Ball was. People who are making generalizations should maybe realize that outside their bubble, the generally understood cultural universals could be meaningful.

Or meaningless!

r329, thats not true. The millennials that matter know Mommie Dearest.

I am desperate and vulnerable. ... I am always terrified.... Beauty can sometimes be so very troublesome. Faye Dunaway

It's interesting as one grows older to keep in touch with the cutting edge. Faye Dunaway

When I think of Peter Wolf I always remember the Portuguese proverb: 'Never say you will not drink from that glass again.' - Faye Dunaway

I like being very busy. I think that's the definition of stardom, really. It's energy. It really is. Faye Dunaway

Jane hates Faye

[quote] [R329], thats not true. The millennials that matter know Mommie Dearest.

Sorry, no.

No one knows Mommie Dearest, or Lucy, outside of a handful of baby gays.

Some MAY know John Waters.

For most of them, "Drop Dead Gorgeous" and "Mean Girls" are vintage edgy movies.

r339, your an idiot.

[quote] your an idiot.

Ohh the irony!

By 1986, she was starring in the TV movie Beverly Hills Madam. She did look gorgeous, and actually like herself — as if she'd had a very good, Sherrill Aston-level facelift. But immediately after that, she went nuts with the plastic surgery and destroyed her face, then kept worsening it.

Then Jane is still being honest, R328, if she says she auditioned for Bonnie and Clyde and didn't get it, I believe her. But she's not lying and saying that pregnancy kept her from doing the movie as the poster above suggested. That was my point.

It's been years since I read Jane's autobiography, but it's one of the best and the most honest I've ever read. I love Jane and how she stood up to all the haters, the liars, and the bullies. She takes responsibility for her mistakes, and she doesn't sit around blaming others. She's had a remarkable life and she's still going strong.

I also have a copy of her book on my iPod that I listen to periodically.

OOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooook!

R344 = I have a small penis (or clitty as I like to call it) and I don't charge extra for anal, fisting, or gangbangs.

Didn't Beatty want Natalie Wood for Bonnie and Clyde initially, but she turned it down because she didn't want to be away from her therapist for several months? She had attempted suicide not long before and I think saw her shrink daily during that time.

I think Faye is the only holdout that doesn't embrace the campiness/kitsch of the movie. I think Rutanya Alda (Carol Ann) Mara Hobel (Young Christina) and Diana Scarwid have all done Q&A's of the movie.

I wonder if Bancroft thought the MD script was too much in the vein of Lipstick as far as how over the top it was. She barely escaped that film unscathed.

Also Faye, like most of the top 70's actresses were being ushered out by another new group of women (Streep, Field, Spacek, Lange, etc...).

Over the top, moi?

I learned fairly recently that Faye's longtime boyfriend, Peter Wolf of the J Geils Band and she was into the heroin.

Faye was married to Peter R349 and the heroin rumors had been around forever.

She hasn't done a movie in over 15 years+...how does she live without working?

[quote]Also Faye, like most of the top 70's actresses were being ushered out by another new group of women (Streep, Field, Spacek, Lange, etc...).

My name isn't "etc.", you fat whore!

Neither is mine...you fat whore!

Ditto, fat whore!

Fuck off and die, fat whore!

Bite me, fat whore!

[quote]She hasn't done a movie in over 15 years+...how does she live without working?

saved the money from when she was working, this ain't rocket science folks

She's had money troubles, R357. She has continued to downsized in recent years. At one point, she was said to have invested a lot of her personal money into a project that didn't do well. Maybe even more than one.

What does her son do for a living?

I always wondered about the Peter Wolf heroin connection. But if she was on heroin with him, she was giving some of her best performances. She married him the year she did Chinatown. She divorced him five years later in '79 and two years later did MD. During that period with Wolf she did the Aimee McPherson movie for which she was crucified by Bette Davis on the Dick Cavett show.

Liza Minelli married hot sculptor Mark Gero from '79 to '82, which were her Halston, Studio 54 years. All her friends thought she was going to die just like her mother from all the coke and quaaludes.

Both Dunaway and Minelli lost sight of themselves during those years. They started acting very grand and became undependable (like Marilyn). But Jane Fonda never did drugs. She always had her wits about her and even though she was true Hollywood royalty, never acted grander than she was. Her thing was to subjugate herself to the men in her life. Fonda's perseverance allowed her to hold on to her reputation as one of the world's greatest actresses who doesn't cause trouble on sets.

Liza was married to Mark Gero from 1979 to 1992.

As noted, 40 was ancient for women then, and Jane had to step aside after bombs like Old Gringo and Stanley and Iris. Streep and then Bullock changed the dynamic for women in their 40's, 50's, and even 60's as leads who brought in millions of dollars.

Faye blew it with Mommie Dearest, Supergirl, etc.

Liam Dunaway O'Neill's profession is listed as: Actor. He has an IMDB page with just three credits, one in which he plays Liam O'Neill. He's very handsome, so I figure he must be a pretty bad actor. Maybe he should take a (cough cough) Master Class.

I read this re his adoption:

[quote]Faye Dunaway's ex-husband, Terry O'Neill has revealed that her son, Liam, was actually adopted. The British photographer has tried to set the record straight after 23 years, as Academy Award-winning actress, Dunaway, has been trying to convince people that she is Liam's biological mother since his birth.

She has given the same, monotone performance in every movie that she's made. I don't get the love for her. She's not a great actress. Her turn as Joan Crawford was the only time that she varied from all of her other performances. And that only happened because she had to heighten her camp factor. She should be forever thankful for that movie. She would not have gone on to greater roles because she had no greater parts that she could have done better than her better contemporaries.

Dunaway had a strikingly uneven career well before she made Mommie Dearest. She worked with a TON of prestigious directors but she seemed to catch almost all of them at their worst.

Her first feature was Hurry Sundown, directed by Otto Preminger, which received very bad notices (but Faye won the Golden Globe for Most Promising Female Newcomer or something like that).

Next she did the comedy The Happening for Elliot Silverstein, who was mainly a TV director but he had just done Cat Ballou, which was hugely successful - unfortunately he couldn't recreate the magic this time.

Then she struck gold with Bonnie and Clyde, directed by Arthur Penn. After that it seemed every successful director in the world wanted to work with her.

She next starred in The Thomas Crowne Affair for Norman Jewison, an unsuccessful movie.

Next up was A Place for Lovers from Vittorio De Sica, who had helmed the brilliant The Bicycle Thief, but this time the results were dreadful.

So she turned to director John Frankenheimer for The Extraordinary Seaman and got another failure.

She then teamed up with the legendary Elia Kazan for The Arrangement, and yet again got another disappointing film.

Arthur Penn then cast her in Little Big Man, which was a successful film but it was considered to be Dustin Hoffman's film and didn't do much for her career.

After that she agreed to work with first time director Jerry Schatzberg in Puzzle of a Downfall Child. Never heard of it? Yeah, neither has anyone else in this dud.

Then she signed on to work with legendary French film director René Clément in The Deadly Trap. Yikes, another mess of a film.

Her next film was for director Frank Perry, not notable at the time, but he would go on to direct her in [drum roll....] Mommie Dearest. This time Perry directed her in Doc, not a very successful film.

After that her career started back on an upward trajectory, first with Stanley Kramer's Oklahoma Crude, and then with Richard Lester's The Three Musketeers. It was probably those two films that resuscitated her, and then she turned to Roman Polanski and the brilliant Chinatown.

Dunaway, has been trying to convince people that she is Liam's biological mother since his birth.

At least her ex-husband is trying finally to set the record straight. Liam is obviously the long-rumored love child of Rupert Everett and Clive Owen.

[quote]She next starred in The Thomas Crowne Affair for Norman Jewison, an unsuccessful movie.

Uh, THE THOMAS CROWN AFFAIR was a big hit. It was the 19th highest-grossing film of 1968, grossing $14 million on a $4.3 million budget.

Faye is a legend, Joan was a legend, Mommie Dearest is a legendary movie. Everybody wins.

Legendarily bad movie, yes

It could have been legendarily great. If. Only. She'd. Had. A. Strong. Director.

If only she had had a strong director to rein her in.

Wishing her all the best. Love Faye...

r365.

"Thomas Crown Affair" was a big hit.

Frank Perry was an Oscar-nominated director and screenwriter for 1963's "David and Lisa" and had directed Carrie Snodgress in her Oscar-nominated role in "Diary of a Mad Housewife" the year before "Doc.".

"Puzzle of a Downfall Child" is considered a great fillm, and was restored and screened at Cannes a couple of years ago. Jerry Schatzberg was at the time a highly-celebrated fashion photographer and also Fay's boyfriend. She's amazing i the film, btw.

And she won the Oscar for "Network" which you don't even bother mentioning,

R328 It sounded as if Jane Fonda wasn't joking when she called Faye a cunt.

No she wasn't joking...

"Back in 1974, actress Faye Dunaway and director Roman Polanski allegedly fought constantly during the filming of Chinatown. It culminated with Dunaway reportedly throwing a cup of her urine in Polanski’s face after he had refused to let her use the bathroom during that day’s filming. As the story goes, the feud first started when Polanski yanked an out-of-place hair from Faye’s head. She was not happy. Later in the day, Dunaway asked Polanski what her character’s motivation was for a scene; Polanski supposedly shot back, “Just say the f–king words. Your salary is your motivation.”"

Love it!

R375 what does that have to do with Faye and Jane?

Faye just announced for a new film. Glad she's working again. I love Faye, I love Jane, l love Meryl, and I love Glenn.

Why? Because I love talent. We gays can love more than one acting diva. Okuuuurrrlll!!

[quote]But Jane Fonda never did drugs. She always had her wits about her and even though she was true Hollywood royalty, never acted grander than she was. Her thing was to subjugate herself to the men in her life. Fonda's perseverance allowed her to hold on to her reputation as one of the world's greatest actresses who doesn't cause trouble on sets.

Jane must have been addicted to exercise. All that workout stuff in the 80s.

I really want Jane and Faye to work together again before it's all said and done. Hurry Sundown is very entertaining (I'd watch it before Guess Who's Coming to Dinner?), a southern gothic potboiler, and both of our young divas are beautiful and effective in their roles, but they only appear together for a split second and have no interaction.

I really enjoy Grace & Frankie (season 2 was better than 1) and think it would be great to bring Faye on for an episode. She could play an old rival of Jane's that somehow through comic circumstances gets close with Lily or vice versa.

THAT WOULD BE GAY HEAVEN........let us pray...

do Jane and Faye get along? did Jane say something nasty about her on WWHL a while ago?

Faye's performance in MD is so bizarre because it does and should work and yet it doesn't. As an actor, when looking at the choices that she made throughout the film in portraying to a fading movie queen, whose entire world is steeped in artifice and rage, they do seem spot on and yet it comes across as ludicrous and cartoonish for the most part.

I would argue the same with regards to Scarwid's performance (aside from the Southern drawl), I used to question her decision to underplay Christina, but it actually makes sense from a character perspective. Her decision to portray Christina as a hyper-controlled young woman who refuses to allow herself to indulge in emotional excess and who even at the height of her fury still will not allow herself anything more than to spit out 'Because I am not one of your fans!' seems to be a very authentic study of a victim of physical abuse, and yet it also comes across as ridiculous.

I think Dunaway's over-playing and Scarwid's underplaying are what throw the film off, making Dunaway look that much more over-the-top and Scarwid wooden. Both portrayals individually work, but put together undermine the other.

Very on-point, r381. I'm thankful for both of those performances because Monmie Dearest is a treasure.

[quote]'Playing Joan Crawford ruined my career'

Then why do you keep playing her?

"Faye's performance in MD is so bizarre because it does and should work and yet it doesn't."

That makes a whole world of sense.

She gave up on Master Class and yes she's had money problems. I remember one of the tabloids saw her putting up a sign to lease out the other side of the duplex she was living in. I think the biggest source of income she has had in the last 25 years was the settlement she got from Andrew Lloyd Webber after she was fired from Sunset Boulevard.

I remember reading somewhere, sometime in the 90s, that Warren Beatty was flying first class to NYC, when a flight attendant told him his former co-star Faye Dunaway was on the same flight, but in economy class. He got up, went over to economy class and chatted up Faye for quite some time before returning to his seat. I thought, how sad--once upon a time, Faye was at the head of the class and now she's flying coach!

R386 "You call this HOT?" [Splash]

[quote]Ultimately it's Crawford's career longevity that wins the day: watch her in Rain--and then Mildred, for example, to take in the full breadth of her staying power

You could actually go back further to at least The Unknown, if not The Boob (hey, it was 1926, slang was weird back then). She gives really good performances in both films, which were during the heyday of the silent era. She sails through pre-codes and into Hollywood's Golden Age, does well in post-WWII films, then lands in the 1950s with a solid performance in Johnny Guitar, a feminist alt-Western. Over a decade later she's still giving good (if campy) turns in now-classic B movies. There is no one with a comparable career -- even Bette didn't do silents.

I always got the impression that Dunaway just didn't get Crawford. She logically knew that this was an abused girl who had posed nude and probably had been a whore, who slept her way into studio offices and photo shoots, who turned herself into a major actress with some really amazing credits. Emotionally, though, Dunaway didn't get it. She approached it the way her character in Network approached the "badass nigger Commie" activist: professionally, but without even the slightest bit of concern over the actual person she was dealing with.

[quote] There is no one with a comparable career -- even Bette didn't do silents.

That's because I was still in knickers rolling a hoop when that CUNT was fucking her way to the top!

[quote]take in the full breadth of her staying power

But most Millennials have no idea who she is.

Very few people in the past are remembered.

It's anecdotal evidence but I see lots of young people commenting on Joan's videos on Youtube, R390. At 30 I suppose I am one of the dreaded millenials as well.

[R390] and you just also explained Dunaway's career problems.

I think Jack Nicholson hated Faye after working with her on Chinatown. I seem to recall that he called her "certifiable", as in, she's certifiably crazy and should be checked into a mental ward.

Interestingly, at the 1976 Oscars, by tradition, he should have presented the Best Actress award to her for Network as he had won the year before for Cuckoo's Nest. Instead, he presented Best Picture and Louise Fletcher presented Best Actress.

It's was obvious that Jack didn't want anything to do with her.

Jack was friends with Roman Polanski. Naturally, Jack sided with Roman than with Faye during their on-set altercations.

Faye had a lot of chutzpah for clashing with director Otto Preminger on her very first film, "Hurry Sundown." His dictatorial manner rubbed her the wrong way, so she shut down and refused to listen to him, claiming he had no idea how the acting processs worked. The man who directed such classics as LAURA, CARMEN JONES, ANATOMY OF A MURDER, THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN ARM, etc., had been challenged by a young ingenue who thought she knew best.

Jack Nicholson did not call her certifiable, that was Polanski, and Jack gave her a standing ovation when she walked out to give A Few Good Men it's People Choice Award.

And in the 90's, Faye was interviewed in Premiere magazine the day after she had been at a small party with Jack and other friends at his house.

I don't think there's any bad blood there.

they don't always follow that rule of having the Best Actor present Best Actress and vice versa. They do it nowadays but back in the 70s and 80s I've noticed lots of times the presenters are not the previous year's winner.

And any bad blood between Polanski and Dunaway must have abated somewhat because just a few years ago Polanski was interviewed where he said he bumped into her at Cannes and they chatted and in the interview he said she was worth any difficulty when making Chinatown. They also met in Poland when Faye was there making The Bait and attended a statue dedication (or something) honoring Polanski.

:::I seem to recall that he called her "certifiable", as in, she's certifiably crazy and should be checked into a mental ward.:::

Thanks for that explanation of the obscure term, meaning the word "certifiable".

R399, please learn how to quote.

[quote]There is no one with a comparable career -- even Bette didn't do silents.

Bette always held that against Joan. She was the same with Lillian Gish when they worked together on THE WHALES OF AUGUST. Why was Bette such a snob about silent films? Did she think them inferior, low-brow?

R386 why didn't he invite her to first class?

r400, how do you quote on here?

R402, perhaps because she didn't pay for first class service.

[quote]:::I seem to recall that he called her "certifiable", as in, she's certifiably crazy and should be checked into a mental ward.:::

I'm actually laughing at this quoting attempt. What the fuck?! Three colons before and after the sentence??? Did you just make that up?

R403 just type [ quote ] before the actual quote. No spaces though.

:::Yeah. Conform.:::

As in do what everybody else tells you to do.

:::LOL:::

::: What is the fish of the day? :::

[quote]::::::

::::::

At one point, Warren Beatty (who produced BONNIE AND CLYDE) considered his sister Shirley MacLaine for the part of Bonnie, but then obviously had to take her out of the running when he cast himself as Clyde.

Incidentally, are the siblings even close?

Great interview with Faye in 1981 where she ONLY talks about Mommie Dearest with Gene Shalit. She comes off as very smart and articulate. The clip has been deleted by youtube before so I am glad it's back up - definitely worth watching.

Dunaway's teeth ruined her acting career

I felt so sorry for Christina Crawford when she was on the CNN show and Larry King asked her if she thought Joan had molested Christoper.

Interesting in R411's clip that Faye says she doesn't believe Christina's book.

I found some of Christina's complaints of "abuse" to be absurd. She bitched and bitched that Joan made her write thank-you cards for Christmas and birthday presents and clean the floors of their house. I mean really, that's ridiculous to call those things abusive.

Ahhhh, but life wasn't meant to be fair, Tina. I'm bigger, I'm faster!

R409. Helen Keller signs in from The Beyond.

According to Truman Capote, Christina was a little bitch. He was invited to JC's house in 1948. "I've been asked to entertain you until mother arrives," little Christina said. "Would you like to see some of mother's things?" "I'd love to," says Capote.

"This vase came from Gumps in San Francisco," Christina said, starting the tour. ". . . and it cost $3,000."

"And these gold cups, well, I can't remember exactly, but they were VERY expensive."

Capote hated Christina, whom he said had her blonde hair tied in pig tails with bright pink bows.

I wonder how BD Hymen and Christina Crawford are doing these days. Broke, probably.

BD Hyman has a bunch of Youtube videos. The ungrateful bitch is still complaining about her mother. The same mother who generously supported her lazy ass well into adulthood.

Is there a copy of The Joan Crawford Show out there? She only filmed the pilot, right?

Christina had lived in Idaho for many years and is very well off financially.

Joan Crawford never filmed a pilot for a series.

Highly doubtful R410. Bonnie and Clyde was a showpiece for Beatty and he was always going to be Clyde. He initially wanted Natalie Wood, but she wouldn't do it because it was going to be shot in Texas and Wood did not to be away from her therapist, she had attempted suicide a short time before.

[quote]Bonnie and Clyde was a showpiece for Beatty and he was always going to be Clyde.

That's not true. He originally wanted just to produce. He initially wanted Bob Dylan because he bore a passing resemblance to the real Clyde Barrow. But in the end, he decided to cast himself. You would watch the "Making of..." documentary that was featured in the Ultimate Collector's Edition, released in 2008. It's all in there. They interview everyone (Penn, Beatty, Dunaway, Hackman, Parsons, Pollard, etc.) and they discuss the making of the film. Beatty mentions originally wanting to cast Dylan and his sister, though not together.

R422, in 1959 she filmed the pilot for The Joan Crawford Show. But it was never picked up due to lack of interest.

R425 was it going to be a talk show format like Gypsy Rose Lee's or a self-titled sitcom?

[quote]To make things better, he lives in the Dakota and completely hated Lauren Bacall.

Anyone know the story there ?

BACALL became more manly in appearance as she aged. Pity.

[quote] I found some of Christina's complaints of "abuse" to be absurd. She bitched and bitched that Joan made her write thank-you cards for Christmas and birthday presents and clean the floors of their house. I mean really, that's ridiculous to call those things abusive.

I couldn't even finish the book and I've seen the movie more than once. The sound is so poorly mixed that it's almost impossible to hear the parts that aren't screamed. But the book's biggest problems are that Christina doesn't recognize her own narcissism or bratty behavior as a child, that her Yul Brynner anecdotes just don't make sense based on the time period she describes, and her prose is just plain lousy.

R428. Is Rex wearing mascara?

I just love Faye! So much star quality!!

A great interview on Charlie Rose. Faye comes across very articulate and smart as a whip. She looks gorgeous, as well.

It got even harder to take Christina seriously after she started bringing Lypsinka with her on her tours.

I wish Faye would own her performance.