Why Isn't Kate And Allie Loved By Gays?

Bearable, but I was never that much into it. And how can it be a thing now anyway, so many decades out of the limelight? Is it even out on dvd?

That cunt Jane Curtin stole my emmys.

Because it sucked.

Typical earnest, preachy 80's bullshit.

America wasn't ready for lesbian moms back then.

[quote]Is it even out on dvd?

There was a complete series set in Canada some years ago.

I have it on DVD. Great show, still holds up.

Maybe she hasn't been forgiven for bearding for Rock Hudson on McMillan & Wife.

That show was a little long ago. The last season was terrible.

SNL's Kate (Hepburn) & (Mohammed) Ali was a much more fun premise.

It sucked ass. Especially when Sue thought she was actually funny.

It was an innocuous and gentle half hour of television viewing. I enjoyed it.

I remember when Chip became friends with a mentally disabled guy. I thought the guy was cute.

I loved it at the time and I thought Jane Curtin was hilarious. However I don't think it's held up particularly well.

I liked Frederick Kohler (Chip) - he came across as a normal kid, especially compared to the obnoxious/precocious brats on other shows of the time.

I watched the episodes on YouTube a couple years ago, and other than the terrible final season, it was still charming. The best parts were the intros with Kate and Allie just talking in various spots in the city, filmed on location in New York, of course. Those scenes are such a nice throwback to what New York was like in the 80s, and it's interesting to see what's recognizable and what's changed. Actually, those intros are all you really need to watch.

Fred Kohler grew up to be a hot little ginge. He played Shillinger's son on Oz and had a full frontal scene.

It wasn't funny. Jane Curtin is hilarious, and she had nothing to work with.

One aspect of the show which made it unique was that it was shot in New York.

They always managed to make the streets of Manhattan seem as squeaky clean and subdued as when a show in LA shoots on a studio backlot, which is never convincing no matter how many people and fake garbage they put on the set.

...or Just The 10 of Us, the original John & Kate Plus 8...

Jane Curtin is the only reason to watch this, she's terrific in it.

r21 agreed although she and Susan had great chemistry but Jane couldn't help being the scene-stealer. It was like Moonlighting, Bruce Willis was the comedian and Cybill Shepherd worked perfectly with him as the straight-laced on. Susan and Cybill seemed to resent that their co-stars were the funny ones but also failed to see that their co-stars made them look better and that's why the chemistry worked.

Boring and lesbionic

Did they bump pussies?

When was the last time it was rerun on cable?

^^ I seem to recall it showing up on some cable channel in the past 10 years or so. TV Guide Channel, maybe? It was surprisingly "adult" for a sitcom which is probably why it doesn't get rerun much. By adult I mean the episodes were character driven rather than plot driven and focused on adult issues and concerns. The kids weren't typical sitcom kids getting into all kinds of shenanigans and diverting focus from the leads, but this seems to have limited its popularity in reruns.

"It's a Living" is another estrogen based sitcom from that time period that was good but disappeared, it was on for multiple seasons but no reruns on TV land or anywhere and no DVD set as far as I know.

R27: The amount of money it will cost to bring that show to DVD is so much, Warner probably just said "fuck it" and then issued another repackage of that vile Candace Cameron shitcom and that even viler Jennifer Aniston shitcom.

R17, that's interesting. Do you have a link?

Kate and Allie is one of the few '80s family sitcoms where the kids didn't steal the focus of the show, this can be attributed to Curtin's comedic skill and the good chemistry between her and St. James. Also, the kids generally lacked charisma, though Allison Smith and Ari Meyers were quite pretty.

I read that when Ari Meyers walked by the studio where it was taped years after the show went off the air, it had been converted into the space where they taped David Letterman's show, and no one recognized her.

What was so bad about the last season?

I think the last season had Allie get married and Kate moved into the apartment with them. Screwed up the whole dynamic of the show.

Episodes

It wasn't ha-ha hysterical but it was a likeable and somewhat low key comedy.

I always enjoyed hearing the intro piano theme that opened each episode. Unlike the other sitcoms of that period it didn't have the typical cutesy opening title credits, so it was way ahead of its time in that respect.

I thought the final season was just Allie (Jane Curtin) and Susan St. James character went AWOL - similar to the last season of Laverne & Shirley where Cindy Williams was entirely written out? Or was that an earlier season when St. James was preggers? I seemed to recall a very long period where it was just Allie.

Someone tried putting this show's theme over the [italic]Family Ties[/italic] credits.

The last season really focused on scissoring.

I thought the man who played Curtin's boyfriend was the biggest wuss on TV.

Until Paul Reiser came along with Mad About You.

STFU, r38!

It should have been "Kate and Ally," about a lesbian mother and her overly-supportive straight friend.

Because OP is the last breathing gay from the Mesozoic Era. No one else fucking remembers.

Fuck off, agist.

They both got on my nerves.

Allie > Cagney > Lacey > Kate.

Remember that shit spinoff with Lindsay Wagner they tried to shove down our throats?

Remember when Jennie became a rocker?

Ewww that was really bad.

I know. Tina Yothers blows her the fuck away.

Someone shit in Tina Yother's mouth and shut her up.

I remember when Hole started getting attention and i was convinced Courtney Love was Tina Yothers. They have that same weird doughy face.

You're thinking of Marilyn Manson being the older brother on Mr belvedere

Brian Bonsall took a shit in Tina Yother's dressing room.

Anyone with pics of the ginger full frontal R17 is referring to?

Here's naked Fred. I wonder what Jane thought.

I loved the show as a teen. It aired on Sunday nights where I lived. It was comfort food just before going to bed and having to deal with school on Monday. A perfect way to finish the week.

I'm a bit surprised so many dislike the show. For me it was practically on the same level as Golden Girls as lovely entertainment for a gay teen. But there's no denying that I wouldn't really want to re-watch the show now.

R28 - does it have to be DVD? It has got to be so much cheaper for NETFLIX or HULU to just stream it.

Thanks R54. Fred's kinda cute with a Nnice bush and balls. Could be a grower of decent size.

Even Murphy fucking Brown aged better than this.

Bullshit, R58 -- Murphy Brown was topical and has aged about as badly as a sitcom can age (apart from Amos and Andy, I suppose). Kate & Allie, while unmistakably '80s, had plots that are mostly evergreen and the humor still stands up. It also gets points for not letting the kids run away with the show (and for relatively subtle child actors).

The last season had a noticeable dip in quality, and Susan Saint James was always the weak link, but the show I think Kate & Allie holds up, dammit!

At least Murphy Brown had more than one funny person on it.

Are we even sure it isn't airing anywhere? Now that every OTA station has 4 substations I was sure they were scraping every last barrel for programming.

[quote] Remember that shit spinoff with Lindsay Wagner they tried to shove down our throats?

No, that was me. I only ran two weeks.

They tried with Lindsay too. Remember she was Allie's cooking teacher.

I always wanted to go a taping since it was done here in New York.

Murphy Brown had zero funny people in it.

But Dan Quayle never blamed Kate & Allie for what's wrong with America.

I think that Andrea Martin's "Roxie" was just a re-hash of the Janice Lynde's "Roxy".

Just when you think you're all by yourself...you are.

Screw you, R65!

Ken Ober: "Who is the only male on Kate and Allie?" Contestant: "Kate!!!"

Best answer ever on "Remote Control".

[quote]I read that when Ari Meyers walked by the studio where it was taped years after the show went off the air, it had been converted into the space where they taped David Letterman's show, and no one recognized her.

Yes, it taped in The Ed Sullivan Theater on Broadway. I went to a taping. The orchestra seats were taken out to accommodate the different sets and the audience was upstairs in the balcony. For the life of me I couldn't remember what the episode was about and yet I went to a Golden Girls once and remember the whole thing.

I went to a taping of Murphy Brown and I stole a placemat from the Phil's restaurant set!

[quote]Here's naked Fred. I wonder what Jane thought.

He actually did an interview with Entertainment Weekly about that episode, r54, and said he consulted with Jane before agreeing to do it. She's like a second mother to him and they've remained close since the show ended.

Unrelated, but I saw him shopping with his wife or girlfriend in the WeHo Target years ago when it first opened. He's taller than I would have thought and the red hair was gone, dyed black.

Ari Myers had some of the best hair ever. She was cute. I'm surprised she didn't get a little more work. I barely remember some stupid movie she did with some twin munchkin bodybuilders.

I grew up in the '80s and it was a Monday night staple. While my dad and brother watched Monday Night Football, I watched the CBS lineup with my mom and sisters. Kate & Allie, Newhart, Designing Women, Cagney & Lacey were our shows. Hell, we even watched AfterMASH lol. And yes, if you have to ask, I'm a gay man. I don't think these shows ever set the Nielsens on fire, but they always had steady ratings and must've done gangbusters with the 18-49 female demo. The best part of K&A were the outdoor scenes and the New York stagy feel of the show. You could tell it was taped in New York. None of these shows, except maybe for C&L, hold up very well, but I get a little nostalgic when I think about them.

Ari Meyers was cute but a terrible actress. I guess it was fitting she played Susan St. James' daughter.

[quote] She's like a second mother to him and they've remained close since the show ended.

I read an interview with Donal Logue who said something similar about Jane Curtain.

Was Donal logue's best role when he played that greasy Boston cabbie in those mtv promos back in the 90s?

Newhart was a big hit. It's fascinating to watch now because it was a hit and ended right when the technology boom happened. It almost seems like a 1950s show. As soon as it ended, May 1990, all the latest technologies, that would change what we saw started booming. Cellphones, the internet, ....all that stuff. It really ended the era. You have to think about the dates it aired and realize it wasn't that long ago.

[quote]Unrelated, but I saw him shopping with his wife or girlfriend in the WeHo Target years ago when it first opened. He's taller than I would have thought and the red hair was gone, dyed black.

That is odd. I saw him and a girlfriend at the Woodland Hills Target like six years ago or so. They must like Target.

Isn't Fred one of the guys in that stupid Amy Seth Bud light commercial?

BTW He was wonderful in Mr. Mom. Just saying.

I used to work in a gym and Ari Meyers was like some sort of workout freak. We would have to practically carry her out of the place and dump her in the street.. She was known for just not wanting to leave. You'd have to check around to make sure she'd gone before you turned the lights out.

The last season was awful. The concept changed and they had got a new writing/producing team. The only consolation that season was the introduction of super-hunky Peter Onarati as the maintenance guy in their new building. C'mon, I couldn't have been the old gayling who lusted after him.

That was pretty much all you, R83

I distinctly remember Susan Saint James being upset and on some talk show (Bob Costas?) complaining about Jane Curtin's Emmy speech. Saint James admitted she thought she'd win and was mad that Curtin said she wanted to thank Saint James because you can't do it with a trained poodle.

R22 always makes that same post. He forgot to add that MTM's strength was that she recognized that she was the straight man.

Anyway, I agree with the consensus here that it wasn't ha-ha funny, but it was gently funny and had a charming ease about it ... And Jane Curtin is always great. Im glad they never focused too much on the kids because they were pretty bad. I actually thought Ari meyers was the most tolerable, however. She looked a bit like Carly Simon, but that's beside the point.

Critics at the time really favored it, too. In the few interviews Curtin has ever done, she always mentions how a sitcom schedule (a three camera one) is so easy compared to any other acting job. So does Betty White (throwing a bit of shade at Bea who called it a "grind.") I always appreciate actors who don't make such a "deal" over the work they do. I think Curtin referred to her schedule as a "joke."

Oh and definitely the intros were the best part.

They reran the show on WE probably about 10 years ago. Maybe a little less than that.

LOGO is now showing Silver Spoons.

This show can't be far behind!

I remember reading an article after the show went off the air that surveyed critics who tried to predict which TV shows would become timeless, iconic, and passed down from generation to generation, like I Love Lucy or the Honeymooners. A few of them thought that K&A would go that route, but it never happened. Not sure where it went wrong. I don't think it ever aired in syndication here in NYC.

Really?!? They're giving rabid homophobe Rick-don't-call-me-RIcky a dividend? Why on earth?

DId they accidentally get him confused with Jerry Mitchell's twink dancer boyfriend?

r45/r62, You're both right. They tried doing a spinoff with Lindsay Wagner at the end of season 3; it didn't take. They tried again with Andrea Martin during season 4; it did make it to air, but of course was quickly canceled.

Aaaaand, r63 already beat me to that. Sorry!

I acted when i was young and Ricky Schroeder was always the kid actor acting teachers warned us NOT to be like.

Of course, he had a hit series and I didnt, so really what did they know?

Interesting SS just got mentioned though, as Allison Smith, right after wrapping up Annie, nabbed a guest starring role on the show, which essentially was her transition to TV and paved the way for her getting the Kate & Allie role.

Allison Smith used to date Brian Bloom. Lucky bitch.

Why so much hate for Susan? I never minded her. And I always felt badly for her after she lost one of her kids in the helicopter crash. (Or am I making that up? I thought one of her son's died in a chopper crash that injured her husband Dick Ebersole.)

r35, It was season 4 when Kate was missing, yes, due to St. James' pregnancy. I always think the kid she was pregnant with was either Charlie Ebersol (the cute one) or the one who died (who was born after the show ended), but no, it was the less cute middle one, Willie.

There was a time in the early 80s when it was the only sitcom in the Nielsen Top 10. It was pretty funny for the 80s. I've watched it in reruns and agree that it doesn't hold up as well as other shows. But it's a decent sitcom and Jane Curtain was the shit in it. She deserved all the praise she got.

Would they really have been able to afford a brownstone in the Village on a travel agent's salary and alimony? Even in the 80s?

Trivia: writer/producer/story supervisor Bob Randall wrote the novel "The Fan" which spawned the 1981 Lauren Bacall film. He died of AIDS in 1995.

Why didn't Ally have a job? Bitch.

Because of this thread I watched an episode for the first time in decades...and I understand why it doesn't get shown. If they're all as appallingly creepy and misogynist as this I can only imagine. Emma gets stalked and her whole family gaslights her, then creeper ends up with the other daughter and everyone cheers. The only person whose feelings are completely dismissed is the girl being stalked. Vile.

r100=SJW

R101=Creeper.

r102=victim

What are some of the things Kate and Allie openings showed about NY in the 80s? I am so curious about that decade and the city.

Because it was shot in NYC they also used NY theatre actors for guest spots, I remember a young John Heard playing Kate's ex-husband in an early season episode, though later in the series the character was played by a different actor.

I liked The Trojan War episode from the last season when Allie finds a condom in Chip's jeans.

It was no Laverne & Shirley.

r105, yeah I loved the use of theater actors. The grand dame Marian Seldes played Kate's mother.

r106, actually at the time, Jane Curtin badmouthed that episode as being silly and trashed the entire final season. The previous seasons had some really great writing, including some Dick Van Dyke Show writers. In the final season, Saul Turteltaub and some other guy came aboard as show runners. He had previously worked on tripe like What's Happening and some of the short-lived Sanford and Son spinoffs.

Fred is cute. He should be naked more often.

The guy who played Kate's ex-husband is the same guy who played Molly's husband on the Days and Nights of Molly Dodd. Why don't we talk more about that show? It was beautifully crafted and shot in New York. Maybe it was too intellectual and lack the camp to attract a loyal gay following?

For a little while in the 90s, Fred was on All My Children playing teen Tim Dillon's friend named..wait for it...OYSTER CRACKER.

I saw the red haired girl on Arsenio Hall's show once. She said that she loved rap music. He asked her who she liked. She said Milli Vanilli. He couldn't control his laughter. I'm not sure why this stuck with me, years later.

[quote] It was no Laverne & Shirley.

You're right, they both stayed together after one of them got married.

Fred has such a sad little rodent face. You want to fuck his ass just to make him happy.

Allie's ex was a heart surgeon from New Canaan or Darien, CT. I'm sure he could've afforded to pay enough alimony to cover half the rent on a Greenwich Village townhouse. Though I don't see how Kate, with her ex being an out of work musician, could've afforded it. I think they had four bedrooms, so what would a townhouse in the West Village have rented for in the early/mid 1980s? Between $2,000 and $2,500, or am I way off the mark there? When I moved to the UWS in the mid 2000s, I was paying $2,000 for a studio.

R115, honey, it was a sitcom, a genre known for being unrealistic about the housing its characters could afford.

r116, doll, someone wondered upthread about the reality of them being able to afford to live in a West Village townhouse. I realize it's a sitcom, doll, but I thought I'd apply a little logic. Unclench. Breathe.

I love a feminist show where one of the leads is collecting alimony and sitting on her ass.

R118 That's pretty much it in a nutshell. It's a straight man's fantasy of a lesbian life...one is still the "husband" and the other is the "wife."

I've known several people in California who have held onto apartments for decades in New York and rent them out to maintain rent control.

There are a lot of affordable properties in Manhattan that are passed along to family and friends who can't resist the bargain.

Holy crap, that's a young Stephen Baldwin in Emma's class in that episode at r100. Go to about 10:21.

[quote]Emma gets stalked and her whole family gaslights her, then creeper ends up with the other daughter and everyone cheers.

There was quite a trend in the 1980s for a character to be the one picked-on member of the cast -- Meg on "Family Guy" is basically a spoof of that. It was usually nerds and teen girls, but was occasionally gay guys. There's that infamous "Too Close for Comfort" episode where Jim J Bullock's character is raped by two women and it's all just high-larious. The country was pretty conservative back then (despite what the sentimentalists say) and sitcoms were more than happy to prop up the status quo.

None of it really wears well nowadays because that trope died out in the 1990s, and now we look back on it and realize how fucking creepy it was.

[quote]Would they really have been able to afford a brownstone in the Village on a travel agent's salary and alimony? Even in the 80s?

In the show where Allie movies out and Kate's new roommate is her real life niece (from Drew Carey), Kate says the rent on the apartment is $800.00. Which seems a bit low for a 4 bedroom flat, but NYC was still a hole back then. Greenwich Village wasn't the yuppie hangout nor was the Upper West Side, yet. It was slowly getting there though, it exploded in the 90s.

And remember it was Kate's apartment with her husband so they lived there at least 15 years, prior, and Greenwich Village was not good in the 70s, and the rents in NYC only go up so much with rent commission back then.

[quote]I read that when Ari Meyers walked by the studio where it was taped years after the show went off the air, it had been converted into the space where they taped David Letterman's show, and no one recognized her

I read that Ari Meyers walked by a "Kate and Allie" reunion and none of the cast attending recognized her.

Bitches, I was Patty Duke and I'm Puerto Rican.

I totally forgot that Ari Meyers played the young Patty Duke in the mad-for-tv-movie 'Call Me Anna'. This was a couple of years after 'Kate and Allie' went off the air, so Meyers was in her twenties by this point but was still capable of pulling off playing a 12 year old Patty Duke--her face was really child-like--and I'm sure she saved the producers a bundle by not having to hire someone under 18 to play the part.

Youtube has some of the episodes. On "Fathers and Sons", season 5, it shows entrance to the apartment is by going down a stairs. Maybe rent was cheaper because it was a basement apartment? The decor does seem a bit posh for 2 single women, even if one is getting some serious alimony from the former husband doctor in CT. Heck, it's television, so it is fantasy.

The show had an 80s-esque feel to it, esp. the theme song. It brings back the memories, maybe not earth-shattering, but still holds up.

You can see the exterior of the apartment, it's on the far west end of Bank St. I made a pilgrimage their when I first moved to NY.

[quote]I saw the red haired girl on Arsenio Hall's show once. She said that she loved rap music. He asked her who she liked. She said Milli Vanilli. He couldn't control his laughter. I'm not sure why this stuck with me, years later.

I remember that too all these years later and think about her whenever I hear Milli Vanilli somewhere. I think the story she told was about driving or riding along on a car race track jamming to MV. Hilarious.

[quote]Unrelated, but I saw him shopping with his wife or girlfriend in the WeHo Target years ago when it first opened. He's taller than I would have thought and the red hair was gone, dyed black. That is odd. I saw him and a girlfriend at the Woodland Hills Target like six years ago or so. They must like Target.

It's crazy. I saw him at the WeHo Target, too a long time ago.

Anyone remember an early 1980's ? show about a working class Italian gal who marries a tall, wealthy non-italian hunk of a guy? It was a short-lived series.

R123 was that Maddie Corman née Cornman? I knew her. She's married to Jane Alexander's son who got into some kind of online porn trouble.

I know it's an old thread, but it is still active and actually know the answer to R131's query. You're thinking of ANGIE, starring Donna Pescow and Bradley Benson.

However, I recently stumbled upon this show on YouTube and began watching it, since I'd heard of it but never actually watched it. I was 4-9 when it originally aired. Anyway, it's enjoyable because it is an '80s capsule but it's not laugh-out-loud funny, as has been mentioned before here. To me, it feels and looks more like a dramatic stage play with some humor, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

We liked it well enough to get a "Let's Be Kate & Allie" thread to over 300 responses in July and August.