To those who grew up in church

I used to remember the time when sundays used to last, so very long. . . but if I knew what I know now. . . . .

I still remember the time when I was church all day, what my friends would think. . . .

I was in church all day

Come take me back!

I'm so glad this revelation is here!!

I have a friend

Yummy!

Nevermind

OP, you have my sympathies.

OP, here is what you need

I just grew up

I'm an Episcopalian, so everyone just thought I was extra-refined.

Even if they suspected, they would never be so gauche as to mention it.

So no problems here.

revelation is HERE

Songs in the key of life

Not surprised you didn't really find a real response to your question OP. This isn't the place to find religious people.

I'm so glad

Serious response here: My immediate family weren't church-goin' people, but at the age of 13 I felt the need to connect with a higher power and started attending Sunday school/religious studies with classmates (Methodist). I really enjoyed the fellowship and belonging to a kind, benevolent organization (I had belonged to a Boy Scout troop that was a NIGHTMARE). Everything was fine for about a year or so until one Sunday, as part of the service, a church member presented a report from a big national church conference. He ran over a list of proceedings and actions, among which was ". . . and of course homosexuals are still banned from the church." (said quite quickly in an I-don't-want-to-say-the-word-"homosexual" kind of way). I was absolutely floored and dumbfounded! I had just been taught the God created and loves all of us and that Christ saved us by dying for our sins. I was obviously shocked. Church attendance dropped off until I stopped going completely. Too confusing and too many conflicting messages.

I'm now in my mid-fifties and was confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church five years ago. I'm very comfortable there because the clarity of the message of God's love and Christ's salvation of us trumps everything else. I honestly do not know if being gay is a "sin against God" (I don't believe it is), but if it is then the forgiveness that Christ teaches means that it doesn't matter as long as I follow His teachings (and He never once said that being gay is a sin).

I was deeply religious when I was younger (I was an altar boy and even attented the bell-ringers club) but after I realized I was queer when I was about 12 or 13 and what the catholic church thinks about homosexuality I quickly started to lose my faith and I'm now an atheist. I find it kind of funny and hard to believe that I was once religious because I now find the whole concept preposterous but I sometimes wonder how different would I be if I happened to be straight. Perhaps I would still be a bell-ringing fanatic.

The conflict between my religious upbringing and gay culture was something I struggled with the first seven years after I came out. Everytime I had a setback in my personal life (failed relationships, backstabbing friends, etc.) I blamed gay culture and would go back to my religious upbringing and the teachings of my church. When I finally accept it was me making bad choices in my personal life and had nothing to do with my being gay, I started to move forward. I still have my religious faith, but I'm also happy being who I am: a gay man.

R19, I have a 56 year old friend who is still riding that seesaw. He cannot embrace his faith and be gay at the same time, so he swings back and forth between the two. It's led to crippling depression. As of this year, he's committed himself to serving the Lord, renounced his homosexuality and married a woman. If any of this actually made him happy, I'd gladly support it, but he's still depressed to the point of near-catatonia.

"be gay" is a poor way to put it. I obviously should have said "accept him homosexuality". Even my friend wouldn't argue that he could ever NOT be gay.

OP, just block the idiot of post #2 and all the dumbass shit in this thread magically disappears.

r19 'accepted' fixed.

OP I grew up Baptist. My family casually attended Church every Sunday. I mean very casually to the point where if Casey Kasem hadn't gotten to number one yet we would sit in the Church parking lot and listen to the radio and skip service. Funny enough it was my older brother and l, when I was 10, who would attended a neighbor's youth bible study one summer that got "saved" first. My mother, who was a self proclaimed disco queen embraced religion then and she was off to the races. It was Baptist Training Union, then Subday School, then 2 hours of church, Wednesday Bible Study and or own at home Bible, with notes. I had no idea I was gay. Braving yourself for marriage definitely helped not dealing with girls. At one point I even remember speaking in tongues at 19.

Then I moved to NYC. And it was a very slow untangling of my beliefs after that. I realized I was gay by 22 after many counseling sessions dealing with my sexuality and people trying to change me. I tried to hold on to my beliefs. But distance from church and my own self reflection about religion caused me to become less and less Christinan. I looked around and realized the same shitty things happened to Christians and non Christians in equal measure. Thar there are so many things the Bible could not rationally explain. If Jesus could turn water into wine, why didn't he change it into something as basic as soap and save millions of lives by teaching people and germs? Little things like that made me realize the Bible was written by men who had no real understanding of the small world around them, no real insight that transcended their small lives.

Then I watched Religilous and I was done. I'm not an atheist now. But I don't believe in an all knowing God. I more on the side of science, realizing there is more to this world than we see. And my old beliefs seem somewhat silly in daylight now. My mom still holds strong. And I realize that religion for some is the only comfort they have, albeit dangerous.

I grew up in the church

I can remember the time, When I was at church all day, I sat there and I wondered what my friends used to think

and Used to think about me

Can you remember the time When service it seemed like it lasted so very long? If I knew what I know now I would have stayed all day

DL, Come take me back to the one place where I come from. Haven't you heard that the Revelation is here

OP, I looked around and realized the same shitty things happened in church that lasted so long in equal measure. There there are so many things the Bible could not make me stay all day. If Jesus could turn this revelation, why didn't he change it into something as basic as soap, or what my friends used to think?

I'm a 27 year old celibate reformed Baptist. I believe in God and believe God created men to be with women. All other sexual desires come from mans fallen nature. Out of reverence and love for my God I obey him.

I condole you, R27.

Whenever I ponder religion, I usually ask this question -

Is the Abrahamic god, a sociopath, or a psychopath?

You're a damn fool, r27. You'll regret these wasted years of solitude when you're old and realize that death is an end, not the beginning of the eternal Utopia you've been force fed and promised. The idea of heaven is only just a tool used to control simple minds for money and power. Only the truly stupid and the mentally ill are religious. You've gullibly "saved" yourself for nothing. You've done everything wrong. I rate religious people as equal to trans...sad, misguided lives dedicated to believing a fantasy and trying to force others to accept the same nonsensical delusions.

I'm Celibate for life. Jesus demands my obedience, and he is worth of it. I gladly obey Him for His glory. I'm inspired and emcoyerages by other believers doing the same, as well a Christians in general to exemplify making Christ first in all things.

For most reasonable people, once you grow out of Santa and the Easter Bunny, the rest is downhill.

I continue to believe in a heaven because my mother was such an angel, I *know* she's there.

I still feel her spirit, so I know she's not really gone. I'm not embarrassed to believe this. It gives me a lot of comfort.

I'm Anglican and have not been going to church for the last few years, but I want to start up again. I miss it.

R32, what the fuck, then, are you doing here? DL is filled with all sorts of things of which your friend Jesus, whom you've sworn to obey, would not approve. Besides, you should be spending this time flicking your bean to the Bible, not cavorting in cyberspace with heathens like me who have sex...not just sex, but sex with MEN. Now, go away and suck imaginary Jesus dick and cry while you use that dildo you've decoupaged with pages from Leviticus.

Sorry, that at r34 was for r31. Jesus didn't restore my eyesight, it seems.

Church was there a lot growing up

I remember the time, I was at church all day, I sat there and I wondered what my friends used to think, like on the DL

and used to think about me more thane church

Can you remember the time that service it seemed like it lasted so very long? If you knew what I know now I would have stayed all day long

Haven't you heard that the Revelation is here

Lol R35

I was raised Evangelical Christian. From the time I was born I was in church every Sunday. Grew up believing...I used to lay in bed at night almost in tears crying because I was asking Jesus to come into my heart. I thought this was something I would physically feel. My parents used to take us kids to "film" night at church where they would show various films about religion. One in particular was called, "Thief in the Night" and was about the rapture happening. Basically this woman wakes up one morning to find her husband's razor on and in the sink because he was taken, along with most everyone else she loved, during the rapture. Well, that film scared the living piss out of me and from that night on, I would have insomnia issues that continue to this day. I used to wake my parents up screaming that I was worried Jesus was coming and I was going to be left behind. I grew up and into my teens, still believed. Didn't really know I was a lez until after high school. Tried to find some meaning in the "Course of Miracles" bullshit. Finally, at college, I took a philosophy class and started to really look at religions and their origins. It was then that I came to realize that it was all a load of crap. ALL of it. Once you start studying where and why religions came to be, you understand this intrinsically. I honestly believe that you cannot truly evolve as a human until you shed the veil that religion has pulled over your eyes. As to my sexuality, I never felt guilt or shame, even when I believed. It just felt normal to me to like other girls and so it was.

I remember the time I used to spend in church. Well, that time scared the living piss out of me and from that night on, I would think about me. I used to remember the time and come up screaming that I was so very long and coming and I was going to stay all day. I grew up and into my teens, still believed. Didn't really know how this revelation would be

I occasionally hang out at Ex-Christian dot net, and read many of the stories from people totally fucked up by religion. Unlike myself, many live in a place, or situation where they can't truly escape it. The comparisons of 'coming out' are so similar for both being gay, and coming out as an atheist, especially in the bigoted USA. It's a good place for budding atheists, a site of vast knowledge, and good people including ex-pastors.

growing by myself, many live in a place and remember the time, or situation where they can't truly wonder about. The comparisons of 'revelation"' are so similar for both being in church, and coming out as an singer, especially in the bigoted USA. most of us in church

R41 - Are you drunk?

Could you repost that? This time in English.

drinking was never allowed in church.

I'm an old celebrating Revelationist. I believe in church ALL day and believe that if you wonder, you will know. All other friends think and are from a natural state. Out of revelations and love for my church I will wonder.

I remember it all

Anyone that believes in the existence of gods is:

1/Insane

2/Stupid

3/Both of the above

Years ago I knew a gay Mormon who was literally dying from not being able to reconcile both.

I think I dated him R47.

just getting into the act

R48: Texas?

I was always a "rule breaker." So while I read my bible, went to a church school, went to services etc. I felt like my personal relationship with God was all that really mattered. I never bought into the bullshit they peddled about what was "bad." I don't like control imposed on me, or coercion, to this day. I feel spiritual, but I no longer bother too much with any religious denomination. I guess if I had to pick a denomination it would be Methodist, or Episcopal. Maybe Presbyterians. It would have to be a progressive branch.

did you sing in church?

Liberal churches are largely empty and dying. The fastest growing churches with the most dynamic with youth populations are Bible-believing, traditional real Christianity

I grew up going to Presbyterian churches, with the exception of one Episcopalian church. I don't believe you are condemned to hell for homosexual acts, but are judged by what's in your heart which is something only God really knows. Why should someone be deprived of an intimate connection and meaningful relationship with people for the rest of their lives just because they desire them with the same sex? I do believe in God, but as I've said in another thread, I have serious struggles and doubts about His being truly just. But that's another subject. I also want to add that the last Presbyterian church I went to was very welcoming to everyone.

The demise of main line Protestantism is regrettable. Those churches have given voice to the religious left, which, though small, does in fact exist.

The religious left is tiny and getting smaller, largely because it is indistinguishable from secular unbelievers

I went to Catholic school until the fourth grade and I loved it. It was just a great loving place, but even by fourth grade I had SERIOUS doubts about all the religious rigamarole. I was confirmed ONLY under intense pressure from my mother (for whom it was totally out of character), and of course by high school was already pretty much an Atheist.

I only went to church at as long as my parents made me, and now go only for funerals. It's meaningless mental illness to me for the most part, but generally I like a lot of Catholic people because most are not ideological Jesus-guzzlers.

R53, think again

Rachel Held Evans is one columnist who is a rare ex-evangelical who became Episcopalian. Church demographics and statistics reveal that liberal churches are hemorraghing members and have the oldest average age of membership of any type church. The fastest growing churches are almost all conservative or traditional in theology. Moreover, conservative churches have many more church active youth and young adults than liberal churches. The same reality is also found with parachurch groups. Almost all of the big, visible college religious groups and organizations are biblically conservative.

[quote] Moreover, conservative churches have many more church active youth and young adults than liberal churches.

only in conservative states along the mississippi

Evangelical Protestants Are The Biggest Winners When People Change Faiths

Why do evangelicals wind up ahead of other Christian sects in this model? They’re better at holding on to the people born into their tradition (65 percent retention compared to 59 percent for Catholics and 45 percent for Mainline Protestants), and they’re a stronger attractor for people leaving other faiths. According to Pew’s data on conversion rates, 10 percent of people raised Catholic wind up as evangelicals. Just 2 percent of people born as evangelicals wind up Catholic. The flow between mainline and evangelical Protestants is also tilted in evangelicals’ favor. Twelve percent of those raised evangelical wind up in mainline congregations, but 19 percent of mainline Protestants wind up becoming evangelical.

Evangelical Churches Still Growing, Mainline Protestantism In Decline By Richard Yeakley Religion News Service

While mainline Protestant churches in the U.S. continue to experience decades-long decline, the memberships of Pentecostal traditions are on the rise, according to new figures compiled by the National Council of Churches.

Five Million Fewer Mainline Protestant Adults Than in 2007

Of the major subgroups within American Christianity, mainline Protestantism – a tradition that includes the United Methodist Church, the American Baptist Churches USA, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) and the Episcopal Church, among others – appears to have experienced the greatest drop in absolute numbers. In 2007, there were an estimated 41 million mainline Protestant adults in the United States. As of 2014, there are roughly 36 million, a decline of 5 million – although, taking into account the surveys’ combined margins of error, the number of mainline Protestants may have fallen by as few as 3 million or as many as 7.3 million between 2007 and 2014.

The new survey indicates that churches in the evangelical Protestant tradition – including the Southern Baptist Convention, the Assemblies of God, Churches of Christ, the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, the Presbyterian Church in America, other evangelical denominations and many nondenominational congregations – now have a total of about 62 million adult adherents. That is an increase of roughly 2 million since 2007, though once the margins of error are taken into account, it is possible that the number of evangelicals may have risen by as many as 5 million or remained essentially unchanged.

Metropolitan Community Church was founded in the Pentecostal tradition although obviously would reject the evangelical label, as would the evangelicals reject them.

Anyway 2 million since 2007 isn't much. That's probably a decline as a percent of the total population. Bear n mind too that these churches, like RESONATE, have huge incentives to lie about their membership since it is a sign of God's favor.

Part of the reason for their relative success is Hispanics. Catholicism is the state church in Latin America and the focus of historical social conflict, adding the stench of politics to everything. Yet North American Catholicism has been a little bit shabby towards Latin congregants because they don't tithe (they didn't have to in Latin America as the state calculated all that shit), and they don't find the Irish, Polish, and German hierarchy very congenial to their needs. Evangelicals then come with a burst of energy and personal attention and encourage mysticism and superstition, and so probably a third of Hispanics in the US decamp to the evangelical camp. But this of course has nothing to do with mainline Protestants who are declning because of their success at education.

Latins love gospel

Evangelical churches also sponsor Hispanics for immigration.

As do Mormons.

I have a hard time thinking about religion. It was so important to me growing up and beyond. It does fuck people up, but not everyone. I've known wonderful Christians who truly try to live the teachings of Christ from the Gospels, and I've known zealots who make religion into something horrible and inhuman. One problem I have with atheism is that I can't believe that this universe has no meaning. That's hard for me to accept. But if it's true, there's nothing I can do about it.

Reading what other people thought about the Rapture brought back some memories. I was Catholic, but I read Hal Lindsey's books as a kid, and they scared the shit out of me. But like all sensationalism, there was some enjoyment to be found in that trash if you didn't take it too seriously. Unfortunately, I did. I remember being worried that I would be "Raptured" in the middle of masturbating or something else equally embarrassing. That used to scare the crap out of me.

Pentecostalism is experiencing explosive growth in Latin America

Do celibate men masturbate? Seriously, I'm curious about this. Does being celibate mean you have no sex whatsoever? If so, do you have wet dreams every night?

What was most comforting was the realization that none of us are gods, we are all vulnerable and struggling in some way and no matter how confusing a good person's life can be, I don't believe that the Jesus I read about in The Bible would somehow think a good person who is gay, is less worthy than anyone else. There is nothing predatory or inherently bad about being gay, like there is preying upon vulnerable, helpless people and creatures. There also wasn't a cruelty in the teachings or aggressive nature to prove something about the prestige of this World.

Keep being kind and the questions you don't find answered in this life will be revealed. And you know, people are wrong. We screw up. Including those who have tried to interpret what they believe God wants. I think we know in our hearts what matters and a religious person would think we were designed to know it, if we don't work to turn off that instinct/impulse to know right from wrong.

R70, they are not supposed to, because masturbation is sin for all.

I wonder if Whitney masturbated.

Hugh

I remember that time

[quote] OP: But those who had a deep connection with your faith, and loved church and reading your bible everyday, and were active within your church...,

Every denomination is different, but historically, even good Catholics didn't necessarily read the Bible. They rely on the Priest to find relevant passages which the Priest would then recite at Mass. .

****ALERT**** Evangelical infomercial in progress!

Thank you, "Alert Troll!" We should have people like you working for NORAD!

Wow, I thought Evangelicals were all those horrible, hateful, money grubbing people on TV! Boy was I wrong, they seem wonderful and full of love!

I'm going to empty my hard earned bank account and bring it straight down to the local church!

R79 I stand by R71 . I think the loudest, least Christian Christians get the most attention by industries designed to prey on our impulses, that feel threatened by those who want goodness.

I grew up Catholic. We were at church for every Holy Day of Obligation, coincidentally including my birthday. And yet my faith had zero influenced on my "coming out". My experience is that my local Parish had nothing to say whatsoever about homosexuality. They did tell us we were all sinners, it was our natural state, and it was ok. Jesus died to redeem us from ourselves.

It was only general social pressure that inhibited my self-acceptance. I remember learning that "faggot" was something awful, long before I knew what it meant.

I never came out

Keep being kind and the questions you don't find answered in this life will be a revelation. And you know, people are in church all day. We screw up. I wondered, this Including those who have tried to think what they believe God reveals. There also wasn't a time in the whole day or many friends to prove something about the prestige of this revelation.

I remember the time, I was at church all day, I sat there and I wondered what DL was like

and used to think about me more about church and those things

I grew up in the Episcopal Church and loved it. Lots of pomp and circumstance, pageantry, candles, incense throwers, etc. The Episcopal Church has always been very progressive. They were the first mainstream denomination to ordain a gay bishop.

My parents always made it clear that we went to church for the camaraderie--not because we actually believed.

i wondered when my parents took me to church

I never grew up inna church. I grew up inna house.

I can't say I "loved church" (and I definitely wasn't "reading my bible everyday;" we were Catholic), but I believed. My parents believed, and they sent me to Catholic school and took me to mass every Sunday and every Holy Day of Obligation.

Mass was a big deal. You had to attend, and once you were of age you had to be in a state of grace to receive communion, meaning you had to go to confession. If you didn't confess your sins, you couldn't take communion, and if I didn't take communion one week my parents would make me go to confession.

All of this stuff was drilled into me and I just accepted it without much thought, until I realized I was gay. I did trying praying the gay away, but we all know how that goes, and eventually I realized it was a crock. I was gay, and if there was a god he made me that way, so none of the rules or catechism washed anymore. It was just a revelation. An epiphany, if you will.

Today I am a spiritual secular humanist/agnostic. None of that Catholic malarkey stuck, ultimately, although I am still "culturally Catholic." That stuff never washes off.

to accept my sexuality, I've had to reject my faith, which at one time was a very important part of my life.

I accept it, especially in the bigoted USA. most of us in church; growing by myself, many of us live in a place and remember the time, or situation where they can't truly wonder about. The comparisons of 'revelation"' are so similar for both being in church, and coming out as an anger angel

Evangelicals give me the creeps.

And the creepiest of the creepy are the "End times" evangelicals such as good ol' Jim Bakker who are instructing their flocks that we are in the "last days." I watch his show nearly everyday just to gape and occasionally giggle at the sad bunch who are moving to Branson so they can be with the former PTL Club leader when the end comes. It really is quite entertaining. Nearly every day JB informs his viewers as to what God told him the previous day since he is now a great prophet.

Can you imagine choosing to dedicate your life to following a heavenly spirit who deigns an infamous felon to be his mouthpiece on earth?

People are both sad and gullible.

That's a revelation

Today I realized it was all a crock. I was gay, flaming, and if there was a god she made me, yeah, so none of the rules or catechism wasted away anymore. It was just a revelation. An epiphany, if you will.

eventually I am a spiritual leader human being too. None of that crap malarkey stuck, so very long, although I am still "culturally at church." That stuff never washes off.

I went to a catholic school, so I was literally in church every single day. Religion was a subject as important as maths. I'm a full blown atheist now, my family is still catholic as fuck.

My church had no position on gays. My garbage about my sexuality was solely down to society. Although I'd given up on religion by the time it happened, my church was one first and few championing gay marriage. The United Church of Canada.

I am tired about arguing about my sexuality with traditionalist Catholics; and I am also tired about arguing with gay activists about my religion. I am gay. I am Catholic. Get used to it.

I cannot deny my sexuality nor can I deny my religious beliefs. Once I accepted bot concepts, my life became a lot happier

Growing up I went to a Presbyterian church and it was around age 13 or 14 when I started to develop a crush on our youth director. He was in his mid 20s and had this dark curly hair, mustache and a fantastic body. He had come from Kansas to California and was living at the church at the time. I'd fantasize about walking in on him dressing or taking a shower during Wednesday night youth group. He was what made me realize I was gay and I'm pretty sure he was the first person I shot my load to. I don't attend church as an adult, but I would say attending church played a part in coming out to myself.

The prohibition on being gay never made sense to me. Being gay or lesbian doesn't hurt anyone. I was never convinced by the theological knots that people twisted themselves into justifying their anti-gay positions. I accepted my sexuality because it felt absolutely true to me, much more true than my religious beliefs at the time.

I decided that I could not participate in religious groups that couldn't accept gay people and women (the separate sphere concept is bullshit) as full participants in faith and in society. As I went through college and grad school in different parts of the country from where I grew up, I saw how much racism and classism was justified by Christianity. Of course, Christianity in the U.S. has frequently been anti-science and anti-education.

With all of those factors in mind, it seemed irrational to remain religious, so I stopped.

This is timely for me. Very catholic upbringing, both parents had sisters who were nuns. My dad’s sister - the sister - died yesterday. Funeral is on Tuesday and I’ve been asked to offer the eulogy.

Talk about taking me back! The last time that I did this was ten years ago when my mum’s sister - also a nun - died and I was on eulogy duty again.

I’m an atheist but definitely culturally catholic. I spent my school years didging pedo priests but I won’t hear a word against nuns!

^^ *dodging

I could have written R96's post (I was wondering if I did). I'm gay, and I'm Catholic. My gays I know don't approve of my Catholicism. Many Catholics I know don't approve of my being gay. Too bad. It's my conscience. I had a real struggle as a teenager, but I moved past it.

many people go to church all day, but if they knew what I know now. . . .

I am religious and straight so my faith and sexuality is intact. I have no conflicts since I am mostly conservative.