HBO's "The Night Of"

I looks dark & scary. But I like Riz. He's a good actor. John Torturro too.

It's like ABC's Crime Story. But everything has a little bit of everything that's come before at this point.

Ir it's like True Detective, I'll watch it, but if it's part horror story I will not. I am not a Walking Dead fan either.

bump

Can't wait to see it

Just finished watching the first episode. Jesus Christ, was that good. So fucking tense.

Interestingly, the pilot was filmed a while back, with James Gandolfini in the John Turturro role. I wonder if they'll ever release that footage.

The things I would do to Riz Ahmed. At times, depending on the camera angles, he looked like a cross between Daniel Radcliffe and a young Gael Garcia Bernal to me, with his big beautiful eyes.

His performance is fantastic. You could feel this poor kid's dread getting deeper and deeper the more panicked he got and the more mistakes he made. Little touches at the beginning show just how painfully earnest Naz is - we even see him practicing how to introduce himself at the party - so I find it wholly believable that this good kid who probably never did drugs before Mystery Girl would totally freak out and run out the door without his keys or jacket upon discovering that his hook-up was violently murdered.

And the actor who plays Box already seems magnetic. I'm hooked on the show already. If it's anywhere as good as last year's Show Me A Hero, I'll be ecstatic.

I really liked it BUT I wish the circumstances of his arrest hadn't fallen into place so neatly (i.e. everyone at the station identifying him--and why was he not cuffed and in a cell the whole time?)

[quote]I really liked it BUT I wish the circumstances of his arrest hadn't fallen into place so neatly (i.e. everyone at the station identifying him--and why was he not cuffed and in a cell the whole time?)

Don't feel jaded, R8. I mean....the witness just happened to be walking down the street at the same time the police were taking the body out, etc. It's pretty convenient and downright lazy writing. Not to mention a 22 year-old college tutor not asking for a goddamn LAWYER before getting his dick swabbed BUT I'm in. I like the whole Pakistani-American crime dynamic it has going on.

And I have a HUGE crush on Riz Ahmed. SIGH

The first episode was well-made and I'll keep watching, but i agree with R8 and R9 about the plot stretching the boundaries of believability.

I could see him not asking for a lawyer right away....people know that lawyering up ASAP makes you look guilty

He's a sheltered nerd. He's never been involved with the police so his no packing for a lawyer makes total sense.

One may know intellectually that you're supposed to have a lawyer but when it's actually happening, he doesn't really know what's going on.

So how was episode 2?

I am SO hooked on this show, I wish there was a Netflix type binge available where I could watch all the episodes now.

Love John Turturro

Last night's episode showed a little of the lawyer's personal life. I got the feeling there's a story behind him becoming a lawyer and/or about his practice.

The other men waiting for arraignment were shocked when Naz's charges were read.

I still think there is more going on with that guy who harassed Naz when he was going into that girl's place and was lurking around the crime scene.

I think the step-father put a hit on her.

John Turturro is very good (I can't imagine Gandolfini in the role), but Bill Camp as the detective is doing a masterful job walking a very fine line. I especially like how he dug through the boxes to find that Harvard sweatshirt just to kinda fuck with the kid down the road.

It's a wonderful hour, made even more special by the two 30 minute pieces of crap that follow it. Whoever signed off on that show about the assistant principals should be working at Starbucks this morning.

I can't wait for the "Prison Rape scenes" cumming up in the future episodes!! Naz is "gonna be sucking some black COCK"!!

R18, oh, I know! I was thinking Naz should have turned his shirt inside out before getting into the van.

At least Nas is starting to get wise. It took him a few minutes, but I was glad he switched over from English to Pakistani when he was talking to his parents. Even though Box had it quickly translated, it at least showed him that the kid was paying attention.

Riz Ahmed continues to impress. He really plays that terrified deer-in-the-headlights look well.

Building slowly. I pray this all pays off in the end.

One big issue of course is Naz isn't as bloodied as one would expect from the murderer

Riz is very cute.

It moves a lot like the ABC Crime series.

Every episode is really well done.

This is very well written, with very good writing. They are on the brink of New Yorker caricature but so far holding it together.

The sweet and gentle and oh so normal discriminated against and victimized muslim family sub-story is annoying and ridiculous.

Should have been very well acted amd well written

I'm really curious to know what exactly Freddy wants with Naz. Looks like he's going to have to ask Freddy for 'protection' if he wants to stay alive, but what will the cost be?

Omg. I thought Jeannie Berlin was a trans

Can't get enough of this show. Any dish on Riz? He's so gorgeous.

He is in the new Star Wars movie

R26 because no Muslim families are "normal"?

There has been no real development of the case yet. Will there be some twist or did he do it?

The depiction of the muslim family is well done.

I could do without the lawyer's skin condition subplot though. Yeesh.

The fact that he goes to a support group for it is hilarious! I have eczema and have had worse flare ups then his.

There are actual support groups for psoriasis. I've been to one (as a student observer). I think really they want him to have psoriasis, but for some reason they changed it to eczema.

And we've had non-drowsy antihistamines for decades. Alert the writers..

God I love Michael Kenneth Williams.

So, what was up with that guy who was trying to show Nas the ropes? I was really liking him for the first half of the show, but as soon as he pulled out that murder photo of his 'niece' I started to get a weird vibe from him. I had a feeling that baby oil, boiling water combo was coming.

I love this show, but seriously, they have GOT to cut down on the close-ups of Stone's feet. It's getting to the point that all the attention on his eczema is making physically nauseated.

After Nasir stood up at his plea deal and told the courtroom what happened, it seemed like he started to remember some things from his drugged-out haze. I'm hoping some more details begin to spring up in his memory. And what is with all the attention on the eye of the horse head?

Riz is in Jason Bourne too. I read an interview with the Indian attorney character and she said they went to Oxford together - so he's smart too.

"The sweet and gentle and oh so normal and discriminated against and victimized muslim family sub-story is annoying and ridiculous"

There's gotta be a security camera in that animal head R38

I wasn't planning on seeing the new Bourne flick, but now I may have to because Riz Ahmed is my new crush. He was cute and sad in Nightcrawler, but holy hell, he is fucking killing me in The Night Of. I know it's creepy, but I was bummed we didn't get to see more when they made Nas strip at the police station.

r42 I've been a huge fan of Riz since seeing him in Nightcrawler. I went to the premiere of Bourne in Las Vegas, Riz is even more handsome in person, very striking. He doesn't have a huge part in Bourne, he's in about 20 min of the film.

That was my thought, R41, they keep showing it for a reason.

Oh wow, I'll bet, R43. He is gorgeous.

I didn't realize until I saw it mentioned elsewhere, but I first saw Riz in a film from 2010 called Four Lions. He was fantastic in it, as was his best friend in the story. I love listening to him talk with his Brit accent.

r41: I don't know--maybe the animal head is just a quick visual identifier of the bedroom without having to show a bloody body all the time but you might be right about the camera. In fact, maybe there's a camera in the room for blackmailing people she sleeps with--maybe she's a pro. After all, it's a nice apartment on the upper westside, so how does she afford the rent? Just throwing out a few thoughts here. Not really sure what's going on but I love this show. Richard Price, the writer, is a great writer of New York set crime novels. He's done so many great ones--recently read Lush Life and The Whites. He wrote scripts for the Wire as well.

Great series so far. Like one of the posters upthread, I think the step-father had the girl killed.

It is a great series (so far) but I find prison sequences very difficult to watch even though the violence has been kept at a bare minimum. The whole idea of how your life could turn into a complete nightmare in an instant through the way the justice system operates is rather unsettling.

Re the apartment R46 - in the episode where the stepfather talks to Box, he tells the cop the place belonged to the girl's late mother, so hearing that my assumption was the mother left the place to the girl.

Janice and Benny! Yay!

I'm still trying to figure out why they cast Ben Shenkman as the desk sergeant in the first couple of episodes. He played Louis in HBO's Angels In America and now he's a glorified extra? At least Fisher Stevens got a couple of funny lines.

The entire cast is made up of glorified extras, R50. Every walk on part is a well-known actor. It's great, I love it. You keep thinking you're going to see them again, but nope. Max Casella was in last night's episode as the sleazy rehab guy, Kevin Dunn from Veep was in the first ep.

Who played the inmate who tossed the baby oil at him? Good actor.

Has no one here seen the British series it's based on? Criminal Justice. Starred gay cutie Ben Whishaw. Unless they change the ending, you can find out what happens, since it's streaming on Hulu. No racial component, but the eczema is included.

You can see Nas starting to evolve from the naive kid who insists he's innocent, to someone who realizes that he can't survive on his own, but no matter how much influence and power Freddie has, he's got to stand up for him self as well. His physical appearance is starting to change too. He's bigger in the arms and shoulders from working out. And he has a hardened look that comes with surviving two attacks. Even though he was schooled on how to survive in there he had to learn from experience and when he looks at the con who threw the baby oil water bomb at him you know he's going to make him pay. The con does too. Fantastic show. Turturro's defense attorney is bottom of the barrel and yet he is not really corrupt but rather represents the type of person who goes into law hoping to find that one client who is truly innocent. And he thinks he has found him in Nas. I like him a lot. I bet he adopts that cat. BTW, there is something so perverse about Vice Principals and Coggins's performance that I actually like it, too. Ballers on the other hand gives me hives.

Supposedly they filmed the pilot script years before with James Gandolfini in the John Tuturo role. Was the rest of the cast the same? Anyone know or seen it?

I love James Gandolfini but it would be a completely different show with him as the defense attorney. You see him and hear him and it's impossible not to think of Tony Soprano. That part was a blessing and a curse. May he rest in peace.

Riz is so cute. Good actor too. Also loved him in Nightcrawler (underrated film).

I know there are only 17 years between them, but Jeannie Berlin is looking older than her mother, Elaine May, at this point.

Jeannie looks like she had some bad plastic surgery

"This is very well written, with very good writing."

Never stop never stopping, Datalounge.

I haven't seen it but it sounds very well acted, with very good acting.

[quote]He's a sheltered nerd. He's never been involved with the police so his no packing for a lawyer makes total sense.

[quote]One may know intellectually that you're supposed to have a lawyer but when it's actually happening, he doesn't really know what's going on.

Not buying. L&O reruns play every hour on the hour. Every 22 year old knows to lawyer up. It was a dumb scene.

"Every 22 year old knows to lawyer up"

You are confusing tv with the real world. People who are innocent usually have no problem fessing up, because they believe they have nothing to hide.

This is by far the best thing I've seen on television in a long time, and I've grown weary of Detective/police/jail crap.

It seems to really capture what it would feel like to be unjustly accused, and how it would effect your family and everyone around you. Like the taxi being impounded. Nas is living my own personal nightmare: being unjustly accused and being railroaded to "Take a deal".

Nice to see Omar from The Wire again. The supporting cast, as well as the leads, are superb.

R48, that's because the criminal justice system produces very little actual justice. "If you get out by 35, you have a chance to leave as a man. Any longer, and you'll be a monster", said lawyer guy.

I think it's showing people who have no real idea what it would be like, and how quickly your innocence goes out the window, even if you ARE innocent. It's terrifying. The whole "presumption of innocence" is a fucking lie.

Judging by the news bits we're shown and the paper headlines, it's got to be only a few weeks since Nas's arrest. In that time at Rikers, he's had his bed set on fire, his arm sliced by a passing knife, and scalding hot baby oil thrown at his face. And he's supposed to be thankful for a deal that would leave him in prison for, at minimum, twelve years? It's doubtful he'd make it out alive. I'd go with the gambler's odds and take the trial. Even Calvin, the faux-buddy with the dead niece who's murderer walked away with a few months jail-time, suggested a trial could come out favorable.

Jail seems like a truly awful place.

22 stab wounds, which one of the characters points out is the number of years she was alive, and many of which look like they were inflicted below the waist, indicate it was a crime of passion and could foreshadow a Mr. Goodbar situation. Not saying the killer is Naz, but she looked like she was an anything goes girl, and might have attracted a person with serious psycho/sexual problems. The intriguing possibility of a hidden camera in the deer head, which could mean she black-mailed her sexual partners, was being abused and feared for her life and wanted documented proof, or was being spied on unbeknownst by the killer, could point to the step-father who seems to have had a complicated relationship with her because she inherited all the mother's wealth or had had an affair with her, or someone with real power like a politician or society scion who she threatened to expose. Finally, the open gate on the ground floor, the angry reaction by the seemingly random guy who Naz bumped into, and the fact that both the girl and Naz were out of it, might have just been a crime of convenience by a local thug or a drug dealer she knew from the neighborhood and who knew she had money. Or......Naz could have actually killed her in a drug induced paranoid stupor brought on by hallucinogens and really can't remember doing it. I don't know which theory I like best.

Let's not forget about that little confrontation between the stepfather and the mystery man at Andrea's funeral service.

I could do without the attorney's feet issues. Gross.

I don't think Naz did it. Remember she let the cat outside just before going upstairs with Naz, and it looked like the gate was left unlocked. Perhaps someone broke in. Naz was so drunk and high he passed out in a stupor and didn't see or hear anything.

So the murderer didn't see him? The kitchen has a wide opening past both doors. To make this story worth telling I think he must be guilty. It will be a let down if the stepfather did it for money or whatever else.

There were two black guys outside of the building when Naz and the woman went in. One guy made the terrorist remark and walked away, the other walked towards the building steps.

I don't think it'll end up being one of the black guys. Way too obvious. The one who wasn't the witness gave him a lot of dirty looks, but I will be disappointed in that conclusion as well.

Or.... he killed her in a drug fueled frenzy, perhaps because he couldn't get the job done and she laughed at him, or she said something cruel about his faith or his heritage that triggered his repressed rage issues. She didn't seem like the type to hold her tongue. Guilty or innocent, if he can't convince a jury to let him go free he will accept the street justice that his prison mates will certainly mete out rather than spend the rest of his life in prison. An honor killing of sorts. And even if he is guilty he will maintain his innocence to the end to spare his parents more shame and pain. Or.....he is innocent but will be found guilty, killed in prison, and then the real killer or killers will confess to the crime. And his mother will take her own life. Is there any way to write this without falling into the trap of cliched crime drama? That is why I think he is guilty. The writer isn't going for a twist ending.

My guess: he gets off on a technicality and, at the end, there are hints that he might be guilty but it's left deliberately vague.

I find Jeannie Berlin to be mesmerizing. I can't decide if it's the voice, the oddly big head on top of the skinny little body, or what, but I literally rewind her scenes and watch them multiple times. "Where would I go? What would I do? Spend more time with the grandchildren? They would hate that." "Johnny, that was uncalled for."

Yeah, where has Jeannie Berlin been all this time since "The Heartbreak Kid" in 1972? And now she's in this and "Cafe Society" the latest Woody Allen film. Has she been writing scripts and script doctoring like her mom (Elaine May?)

Has everyone forgotten about the guy that was staring Naz down at the convenience store? Nas went inside to get something for the girl, the man walked over and said something to her, she blew him off in a very bitchy way, and he was staring Naz down the whole time they drove away.

That had to be relevant somehow.

Yes, that was the hearse driver.

Oh in sorry did someone mention that man already? I'be read the thread while watching TV also, and I've taken an ativan due to a very stressful day. So if I missed it, I apologize.

R78 - forgot about that.

An interesting telling of a story, and some superb acting all around: down to the least roles: the female intake officer at the prison, even the kid who manned to desk at the animal shelter. Aside from some of the actors mentioned already, I was impressed by Afton Williamson (had to look her up) who plays the arresting cop Wiggins. It's not a huge role but every time you think you might be about to read a little something into her reaction and sense how she might be sizing up the case, she turns nuanced and ambiguous. She can give a quick silent glance that reads four or five conflicting ways.

Did DEXTER teach us nothing? If Naz had stabbed her 22 times he would have looked like a refugee from a slaughterhouse. Instead, he had a few spots of blood here and there.

I find the prison scenes to be the worst part. Love everything else.

I just read a similar comment to yours on another site and I had to agree that it is the one thing that pokes all sorts of holes in my theory that he did it, r83. On the other hand, if the killer wore gloves to avoid leaving bloody prints on the weapon and throughout the apt, it would rule out a random crime of opportunity. Perhaps the killer was watching and waiting for her to come home and came through the ground floor gate that was left ajar. Which would suggest that the killer was known to her. But he, or she, would be covered in blood and there didn't seem to be any evidence that the killer attempted to clean up after. So it seems likely that the killer left in his own transportation since calling a cab or taking the subway would be out of the question. That makes the hearse driver even more intriguing.

Also the hearse is symbolic. I will not insult anyone's intelligence by explaining further.

The young verbally aggressive negro on the stoop is the likely killer.

Her mother had passed away not long before her murder so that is another connection to a hearse.

[quote]The young verbally aggressive negro on the stoop is the likely killer.

But if the killer should have been covered in blood that rules him out too. He showed up at the police station looking fresh as a daisy.

r75

What are the clues that Naz is guilty?

You guys are placing way too much emphasis on the hearse driver. I rewatched the first few episodes last night and after Andrea throws the cigarette out of the window, all the guy says to her after picking it up is, "do you want to be my next passenger?", the suggestion being that throwing a lit cigarette on the ground by a bunch of gas tanks is moronic and extremely dangerous. He didn't glare at Nas so much as he looked curious.

What I had forgotten about in the second episode was that one of the forensic team swabbed the deer head for blood by its eye. The deerhead is mounted in the foyer. How did it get blood on it?

At some point, Nas is going to have to come clean about stabbing her through the hand. She placed a bloody palm on the bannister's square cap, so that will have to be explained. If the stabbing took place up in the bedroom, the police should be asking why there's blood downstairs.

Did the deer head get blood on it from their game? Or was it to far away?

He refuses to believe himself capable of doing this kind of thing. He blacked out and cant remember. A combination of ecstasy, coke and alcohol is intense. What if Ambien was in the mix? He proved himself to be easily influenced to commit certain acts such as the stabbing game. What if they brought that to the bedroom and she said things to provoke him into stabbing her. She clearly had a death wish.

I like the prison scenes. It reminds me of the news story about the young man with no criminal history who was awaiting trial in Rikers for 2 or 3 years. He killed himself.

I like the prison scenes, too, because that is the bulk of time we get to spend with Nas, and I am too fascinated by Riz Ahmed to not want him on the screen as much as possible. Also, the guy who was pretending to be his ally and coached him on how to handle himself - he's fantastic. I noticed the actor is also a Brit. The way he delivered that 'this joint is so chockablock with i-didn't-do-it motherfuckers they fallin' from the rafters' line was brilliant.

The prison scenes are claustrophobic, unbearably intense, and as scary as any scene in the exorcist to me because it is based in reality. Then imagine that you are there because of racial profiling, stop and frisk, because the private prison system needs new meat to keep feeding the beast. Dark preferred. There is a monster around the corner, under the bed, in locked rooms, in plain sight. Waiting in the shadows, passing you in a crowded hallway, standing next to you in the shower, sitting next to you while you choke down your food. No place to hide. No where to run. What an existence. Then imagine that you really are innocent. Or there for something absurd like possessing a small amount of grass. Bless all the motherfucking defense lawyers.

Isn't it clear that he didn't do it, that the whole point of the series is not to be a portrait of a killer, but how the criminal justice system is so overloaded, so dangerous, so racist, and so challenging for a kid with no money and in the wrong place at the wrong time?

[quote] Or there for something absurd like possessing a small amount of grass.

We all know possession of grass is illegal in many states. I have no sympathy.

The only other person shown with any possible motive to kill her is the step-father. The show isn't really following the crime--it's all about Nas' prison experience right now.

R93: he was in for supposedly stealing a backpack

R95: That is my absolute worst fear, which is why, partially, I find this so compelling. Naz shows me what being put into lock up for a crime [he believes] he didn't commit would feel like. I am a black man, so it is more likely that this could happen to me than many viewers. The fact that I've never even gotten a parking ticket is due to me being very very careful, though I rarely even skirt the law.

Having recently read Richard Price's "Lush Life," where the main character is accused of a crime he didn't commit in early 90s LES and gets swept into the NYPD machine for a period of the book--I think Price likes to place an audience surrogate (innocent person, wrongly accused) into the CJ system and make us feel what it's like to be caught there, see what it's like from the inside for those people who've been stuck in it since they were young. So my guess is that Naz is not guilty of the crime. The book was written at around the same time or a bit before Price was likely to have been writing "The Night Of." Just a speculation on my part about Naz's innocence. Price is not typically a sensationalist--he writes about the system, not some crazy one-off drug-fueled act of violence.

He is IMO one of the very best living American crime writers (though he writes about urban life in general, not just crime) and writers about New York, although his books are not procedurals (except maybe the last one, The Whites, which is also very good--the term "The Whites" refers to the Moby Dick idea of the "great white whale"--that particular unresolved case that haunts each of the police detectives in this particular NYPD murder squad. Each one has their own "white." If you like "The Night Of," and you like to read, read Price. That is all :-)

[quote]I am too fascinated by Riz Ahmed to not want him on the screen as much as possible.

He really is fascinating, and I can't really why besides my obvious lust. Maybe it's because his eyes are so expressive. I'm tempted to listen to his music and YouTube some of his interviews, but I don't want to be disappointed and that happens so much (see Henry Cavill and most of the GoT actors).

Well, I immediately went to track down some interviews from Riz and he's incredibly articulate, very intelligent, and quite funny. He's delightful. His rapping style isn't amazing, but I liked the lyrics of his latest single and he's really hot in the video.

Thanks for the rec, R100. I knew of Price from 'Clockers', but I've yet to read him. After this show, however, I will definitely pick him up next. Which book would you recommend I start with?

As stated in this thread, if the purpose of the show is an effort to expose the justice system then it succeeds and fails. It fails because Naz was found with the murder weapon and was witnessed breaking into the home. If someone is found in that way in the real world I'd say there's a 99.9% they're guilty.

As has been stated before Richard Price deserves only partial credit for this show. It's based very very closely on a British drama from BBC. He's basically filling in the outline created by someone else.

I don't want to know anything about Riz Ahmed because I love the contrast of using so many familiar New York and London actors in the show with Ahmed, who is a relative unknown in the States and who is so difficult to read, so that it gives the show a realism that is truly frightening but also the theatricality of a good play. It occurred to me after watching the most recent episode a few times that Freddie is behind those two attacks on Naz.

I think Naz took the knife in a panic because he knew his prints were on it from playing the stabbing game. And he didn't just wipe the knife clean because he didn't kill her and it wouldn't occur to him to try and clean up the scene of a crime he didn't commit. Plus, he didn't know if the killer was still in the house. I'd be scared shitless that the person would come for me next.

You have to wonder if he'd have even been arrested if he never took the knife. I mean, I know there's tons of other evidence to tie him to the murder, but one has to wonder...

Anyone turned on by dead black-guy dick will love tonight's episode.

R108 - with full bush!

Another intense episode.

So... we're supposed to assume it was the friend of the racist black guy outside the apartment now. But... is he the one, or is he a red-herring?

Was the guy on the coroner's table the same guy in Rikers who Freddie had a beef with over a cell phone business and he beat to a pulp in the gym?

How did Naz bulk up so fast?

Stone was fucking crazy to chase Duane Reade into that alley. Plus, he left his card at the bodega so the guy will know his name and can look up his address. I fear for Kitty.

[quote] How did Naz bulk up so fast?

The best way to do it: montage.

It's common knowledge that shaving one's head adds ten pounds of muscle.

Watching him shave his head was heartbreaking, though. He's already been so dramatically changed. By the time (if) he gets out of there, who knows what kind of shit he'll have had to do. The cockiness he displayed when he was blocking the television was short lived, getting to feel safe and tough because he had Freddy's protection and respect. But now its time to pay the bill.

Having to watch that lady very discreetly remove several balloons of heroin out of her cunt and hand them off to her *son* who then handed them to Nas who very promptly had to [italic]swallow them tout suite[/italic], straight, no chaser - I was screaming at the tv while trying not to gag. It may take a day for me to recover.

No reason whatsoever to chase DuaneReade! What was he gonna do if he caught up to him? That was poor writing. BUT I still love this show.

Naz just got a taste, no pun intended, of what Freddie is going to expect in return for his "help". Poor Petey. He's probably given twenty non-consensual blow jobs since arriving at Rikers. If not raped a few times. What if Naz was invited to that party because he was supplying the athlete he tutored with Adderall? And why did he grab the baggie containing the K? Which he said he thought was coke? I can understand the knife because it had his prints on it. But the drugs?

The drugs are probably going to turn out to be the sterotypical pressure he felt from his family to both succeed and earn money. If he was going to school AND tutoring, maybe he needed the drugs to stay awake, and was dealing to earn money.

Either way, last night's episode grossed me out and I don't gross out easily.

I'm really into this show, but I could do without the eczema stuff. That's just grossing me out.

Well, the corticosteroid pills and the Clorox baths seem to be working. Also, he's stopped using the chopstick to poke at the feet all day long. Was it the hearse driver who Chandra went to see and who told her that Andrea was " like a cat"? The ADA prosecuting the case is going for premeditation. Box looked at her like she's out of her fucking mind. In trying to help make the case for the DA's office is he becoming less convinced that Naz is guilty? I like a previous poster's suggestion that Naz gets off on a technicality but commits a felony in prison at the behest of Freddie and gets 25 to life with no chance of parole for that crime. So he's still fucked. Shoulda taken the deal.

There doesn't seem to be much interest in discussing the show on DL but Reddit has an interesting discussion board with seperate threads for each week's episode as well as general assfoolery. /r/The Night Of if anyone is interested.

The only thing I don't like about this show is the title sequence. It's just sort of the standard issue HBO montage of images from the show over semi-spooky music. Zzzzzzz.

But everything else? Fucking brilliant. I, too, was really gutted when he shaved has head. Oh, and I loved Stone's response to him swallowing the eight balls.

the eight-ball swallowing got to me. ickkkkkkkkk

So I read that in the British series***SPOILER but not really***** it was the

************************hearse driver****************************. Also that series was only 5 episodes and I just can't see that being the case with this version.

I suggested it was the hearse driver up thread somewhere.

My money is on the hearse driver or one of the two guys on the street. I don't think Naz did it.

We saw on the most recent episode that the back gate was unlocked, when the investigator went out into the little courtyard area. Somebody went in that way, and Naz was passed out in such a drug/booze stupor, nothing could've woken him up.

BTW the British series that The Night Of is based on, called Criminal Justice, is on Hulu.

I still want to know what significance that deer head has. It has to be more than just the blood spatter. They keep showing it.

When Naz swallowed those drug bags that had just been up that fat shvartz's cunt, I almost dry-heaved. God, that was disgusting.

There was a hat on the deer head. Maybe it's that.

Why does everyone insist on calling him Naz? It's Nas.

I think Naz did it but doesn't remember. I think he has some type of mental issue the series hasn't disclosed yet. Just kidding. I almost think the lawyer is involved. O yea and naz looked hot as fuck in the prison scenes this week. Woof.

NAS short for NASIR. Like the rapper Nas, Nasir Jones. Jesus.

Will the lawyer's foot problem ever be relevant? They spend so much goddamned time on it...

Is this show like porn for the "feets" troll?

Has Nas lost his cherry yet? Or is this an intellectual friendship?

I think the murder has something to do with the person the stepfather was seen arguing with at the funeral. The stepfather wants the house because it was Andrea's mother's house, who was wealthy. So possibly the stepfather paid DuaneReade to murder Andrea.

And since Freddie has stated he has connections outside of jail and can make things happen on the outside while he is inside, Freddie may have connections to DuaneReade. Nas may need Freddie's testimony to save him, but Freddie may ask him to kill someone for it. So it will be the ultimate dilemna for Nas-he didn't kill Andrea, but he'll have to kill to prove that.

This is just speculation on my part.

Nas the rapper pronounces his name NaZ. Nasir is pronounced NaZir. Even in the credits the character's name is listed as Nasir "Naz" Khan. What a weird thing to be fixated on. Whoever Chandra is talking to in the preview for Sunday's ep he really creeped her out. And perhaps is toying with her by referencing a cat. Was the cat still outside or did the cops find him in the house? If someone went in through the open security gate while Andrea and Naz were partying wouldn't the cat have run back inside? Is it possible that the killer was already in the house when Andrea came home? Either through the faulty gate or had a key to the house? The step-father would know about the gate or would have had a key if he lived in the house with his wife prior to her death. The open refrigerator could mean that Naz went into the kitchen in a narcoleptic fugue looking for something to drink and did pass out at the kitchen table. Maybe what woke him was Andrea getting savagely murdered only he didn't know what the sounds meant at the time and can't remember them now.

Our list of suspects right now are the stepfather, the hearse driver, and one of the two guys on the street. Only three eps left, maybe it really was one of them, or another person we haven't seen yet.

It appears the consensus is that Naz didn't do it.

Is it 8 episodes or 10 episodes?

People always seem to be set on figuring out the mystery in its entirety. I'm not particularly hung up on that here - I think what the show is trying to do and is doing it extremely well, is to show how a case in the various aspects the justice system operates, through the eyes of all people involved. Often, people are convicted based on circumstantial evidence, sometimes guilty people get off due to a hung jury, or on a technicality, and the difference between the two outcomes is often in the most minute of the details of the case. I'm still not discounting the possibility that the ending will be left somewhat ambiguous - yes, the case is closed and the outcome of the trial is X, but there's still a degree of uncertainty as to what actually transpired.

^^^ "how the justice system operates through the various stages of the case"

The saddest part is even if he is found innocent he is never going to be the same mild mannered young man he was when we met his character.

It's 8 episodes.

The cat is really an advanced cyborg with an implanted camera.

"The saddest part is even if he is found innocent he is never going to be the same mild mannered young man he was when we met his character. "

He will be gangstah! Yaaasssssss!

At the heart of the story is a mystery. Without the senseless and savage murder of a troubled young woman that sets everything else in motion there is no story. At least not this story. I want to know who killed her. And why. Every character is flawed, morally ambiguous, and has their own reasons for wanting a particular outcome. Life in prison is a fucking nightmare and no one comes out undamaged. Many don't come out alive. And what people have to do to survive in that world is a slow death by a thousand cuts. I get it. But it doesn't change the fact that someone killed her and had a reason for doing so. Even if it doesn't make sense to anyone but the killer. I don't see the harm in letting our inner Sherlocks out to play to try and figure out that mystery. I can still appreciate the tight writing, great acting, and menacing atmosphere that defines that nightmare world. But that's just me.

I'm the same way R148, I want to know who killed her. But I am appreciating the rest of the story and try to look at it like R142 also because it may turn out the way he/she says-they might not reveal the killer. I'll be mad, but will still love the show.

[quote]I think the murder has something to do with the person the stepfather was seen arguing with at the funeral.

Since the person at the funeral was played by relatively well-known actor Paolo Costanzo, I'd wager you are right.

R139, then the credits have it wrong. We don't see him spell his name with a Z and it's not spelled with a Z even with that pronunciation. I've never seen a Nasir spell it with a Z and it bugs me! Ok!

In the first few episodes I thought Nas was guilty, but now I'm resigned to the fact that he didn't do it. The evolution of his character is a testament to the absurdity of the justice system's propensity to label defendants and victims. As if anyone fits in a "good" or "bad" box, but that's how cases are won and lost everyday. He's not perfect and never claimed to be, but somehow that takes precedent over whether he's actually guilty. All of our skeletons come tumbling out and we're never the same.

Personally, I don't need to know who killed the woman any more than I need to know what was in that briefcase in Pulp Fiction. It's the device that sets the plot in motion. The story is about Nasir's transformation from wide-eyed innocent into dead-eyed hood.

Agreed, R152. It shouldn't be, but it's odd all the same to me that audiences increasingly demand such tidy resolution of storylines and all the details and loose ends -- and that they turn borderline unhinged when an ending is unsatisfactorily ambiguous.

Huffington Post, Thrillist, most any quasi-news story on Facebook, even traditional newspapers, they all feel compelled to write headlines to instruct the reader ow they will *feel* when the read the article. It's not enough to say what an article is about, the publisher must tell the reader how he will react ("get ready because at about 01.31 in this viral video of a mother dog reunited with her puppies, your cold heart will melt") Everything has become a teaser lead-in to the local TV news at 6 with stories wrapped up in boxes and bows, with the emotional angle and response all laid out so the viewer/reader is cued-up to respond with the requisite sigh, weepy eyes, or smile. Maybe it's no wonder that the least ambiguity or open resolution causes agitation and revolt, or that someone like George R. R. Martin probably has more to fear from his fans than from his enemies.

Among other things, I like "The Night of" for its ambiguity and as a story told through many lenses. Where the story ends up and whether are the loose ends are wrapped up are incidental to t it being a story beautifully told.

I disagree, finding out who the murderer is has to happen. We need that loose end tied up.

[quote] The story is about Nasir's transformation from wide-eyed innocent into dead-eyed hood.

There's no way to know this yet.

I think Nas still has something up his sleeve. He didn't swallow all 4 of those eight balls that he was supposed to in that disgusting scene. He only swallowed 3 and palmed the other one. I'm not sure what he thinks he can do with one stupid eight ball to destroy Freddy. Maybe kill him with it by somehow giving him food or a drink with the entire 8 ball in it?

My reasoning is that this 8 ball thing is probably the mildest of acts Freddy will ask Nas to commit, and Nas realizes this now. Since emphasis is place on how smart Nas is, I believe he is planning something to get out from under Freddy's thumb. If he kills Freddy then he will be the head honcho and have control, hopefully over enough to set him free.

The cat. Too much cat stuff for it not to be a plot point.

The cat is relevant because Andrea put him outside, but then he was back inside. But I also can't figure out if they made sure the cat is still alive merely to show that Stone has a soft spot in this area, or if the cat is somehow going to reveal evidence. I have no idea how, but maybe.

Omg, no is saying things neat to be wrapped up tightly. But this is a fkin mystery at heart. Albeit a well done, with in depth characters, and rich storytelling with the prison saga. But its still a mystery. The killer will be revealed. Hell, even omar from the wire might have something to do with it.

All the characters, outside of the obvious who would have no motive whatsoever, are suspects.

r158, was it just me or seemed like the cat was familiar with john turturro the very first time he visited the house.

R161, I didn't notice, but you could be onto something. Again, I have no idea if it's just character development or relevant to the mystery.

This could be a SPOILER...........one of the reviews I read when the show was about to premier faulted the show for having (and I am paraphrasing) contrived coincidences plot twists. Now I cannot tell if the reviewer had access to the whole series.

Critics had access to all episodes except for the finale.

"Contrived coincidences" refers to the development of the trial.

The story is as much about John Stone as it is about Naz. And now it's about Chandra, too. All three are on a parallel journey that will change their lives for the better, or worse, or not at all, in profound or rather ordinary ways. How's that for ambiguity? I doubt that anyone posting here is going to lose their shit regardless of the outcome. This isn't True Detective. However, SHOULD the story end with Duane Reade being charged with the murder and hauled off to Rikers, where Freddy and Naz are organizing the welcome wagon, I am going to laugh my ass off.

This show is better than True Detective. I'm sorry I'm in the minority that thought S1 was an overwrought, disjointed mess. Strong performances, but a philosophical puzzle not entertaining tv. some great existential concepts introduced. But outside the metaphors and philosophical characters there really is no drama there.

The stepfather wasn't all that emotional over his stepdaughter dying. Makes me wonder. The house she inherited from her mother is very nice and in a very expensive area. Maybe now that she's out of the picture he stands to get it.

We need Dexter to explain the blood splatters. The position of the body suggests she was stabbed while lying in bed passed out but she had stab wounds on her chest and stomach and her "hands". Not just the one hand that Naz stabbed during the stupid game. There is blood on the lampshade next to the bed and the fan shaped splatter on the wall behind the bed. There were also stab wounds to her back and a lot of blood had pooled below her waist. So she tried to stand and struggled with the killer and put up her hands in a defensive position. He slashed at her hands, stabbed her in her chest and stomach, she fell back on the bed, he turned her over on her stomach, perhaps out of remorse, then stabbed several more times in the back, over kill, and then left by jumping from the balcony into the backyard and leaving a small amount of blood on some leaves from bracing himself after the jump. This was a frenzy killing. Not a robbery. She was still wearing all of her jewelry. She knew the killer. And the knife Naz took couldn't be the murder weapon because it was still in the same place in the living room where they played the stabbing game and there was hardly any blood on it. And the only blood Naz had on him was dried. A mix of his own blood from cutting his hand on the glass and her blood from touching her shoulder. How the blood got in the silverware drawer and on the deer head is hard to figure out. But I will try!

Reddit has some great (obsessive) watchers who try and analyze EVERYTHING...I was reading in one of the conspiracy threads that Andrea was stabbed "22" times but for purposes of the murder it was actually 21 because they counted the knife game stab wound to the hand in the autopsy. When Nas is giving the beatdown to the guy in the shower he kicks/hits him 21 times. Coincidence? Who knows but I love reading stuff like that.

Yeah they go a little crazy on Reddit with the nuances.

Reddit is full of Aspies.

One of the Reddit posters pointed out that when Andrea opened that drawer to get a knife to cut the limes there were THREE knives in the drawer. When the private crime scene investigator opened the drawer there was only ONE knife in the drawer along with a drop of blood. Obviously an inconsequential observation that has NOTHING to do with the real story which is prison is hell and all who enter are changed FOREVER! I'm intrigued by the necklaces she was wearing because they were hard to miss and she was wearing them when she and Naz had sex. And then I noticed there is a necklace in the opening credits. She's still wearing her rings post death but it's hard to tell if she still is wearing the necklaces because she's lying on her stomach. A vital clue perhaps? So many little Easter eggs that get overlooked on first watch but it makes the show that much more intriguing. Because it is also a murder mystery.

I feel like I've missed something. Which episode number was 8/7/16? I don't recall the drug balloons. Thank God.

R173, I didn't notice the necklace stuff! Interesting. The knife stuff on the other hand, is probably inconsequential as you say. I think the opening credits are much like American Horror Story-every image is relevant. Good observation!

I believe the episode was the 5th one out of 8. You need to watch it R174.

Actually I was being facetious, r175. I think it is a very important observation by that poster. It implies that someone else was in the house and knew where she kept some very sharp knives. The knife that was used to play the stabby game was in the same place where they left it when they went upstairs to have sex. It can't be the murder weapon. Naz took it in a panic because he knew it had his prints on it. He also took the two vials of drugs. That one puzzles me. And what is with leaving the side by side refrigerator doors open? They are wide open when Naz is seated at the kitchen table. Then Stone leaves them open after getting the milk for the cat. And then the crime scene investigator leaves them open after taking out the cat food. A contrived coincidence or is something hidden in plain sight in that fridge?

Riz Ahmed has some beefy hair legs, damn. I was sort of surprised that was him in the shower scene. Poor Petey. First he has to handle heroin balloons that just came from his mother's snatch, now he's everybody's bitch.

So we've learned that the stepfather clearly had a motive. But if he did it, how can it be proven?

I never yell at my t.v screen unless it's football season but I couldn't believe that Naz was going to do something so monumentally stupid, like taking the knife level of stupid, that I found myself saying very softly "dont' do it" and of course I got louder when it became obvious that he was going to do it. By the time he takes a hit off the glass I was yelling "what the fuck is wrong with you?". My landlord was out in the backyard watering his garden and he actually yelled up at the window if everything was alright. So embarrassing. Does he have homicidal impulses? Pushing the kid down the stairs and not feeling any remorse or guilt. Calling Chandra like he thinks he might have a chance if he gets off. Lingering just a tad too long at that window watching Petey do his thing. After refusing Freddy's offer of a hit for the longest he decides to do it the night before trial. Taking the cab without permission. He always seems to make the wrong choices and doesn't take into consideration the consequences of those choices. And maybe doesn't really care all that much. I think he's a sociopath. And I think he's guilty. He's having a flashback to a vital piece of information as to what happened that night. And his face says it's not going to go good for him when he does piece it together.

Did Jeannie Berlin have a stroke or something? Half of her face droops and her mouth looks twisted.

I was yelling, too, R179, but I had to look away from the tv when he started smoking heroin with Freddy. He's stressing me out with his poor choices. I get that some of it is him simply trying to stay in Freddy's good graces so that he can survive, but getting SIN and BAD tattooed on his fists before his trial is beyond the pale.

I also think it was kind of ridiculous that if Stone was suddenly so concerned with the color of Nas's shirt, he would have bought something for him already, or spoken to the Khans about what they should bring him. That Freddy is the only one who appears to be considering such details as Nas's appearance in court is a sad state.

Up to the point when he took the hit of heroin I was thrilled for Stone that he was able to wear those nice pair of shoes. And Chandra got the lead on the crazy hearse driver and made her killer opening statement. And then Naz does Naz. Whoo boy.

Hmm, learned a lot about step daddy in tonight's episode. I think the hearse driver is your typical anti-woman religious nutbag and not the killer. Chandra's fear when questioning him was palpable.

I think the stepfather hired Dwayne Reed to kill Andrea.

But they seem to be revealing a new suspect each episode. Which is all you need for reasonable doubt. I'm starting to think that Nas is guilty, but he doesn't know it for sure yet, because he doesn't have his memory. He keeps doing the Heroin because it's helping him remember.

Maybe he'll be found innocent, then remember that he actually did it and kill himself. Or be killed.

OTOH, I really WANT to think Nas has a big PLAN. He always watches Freddy like a hawk, as they show with the lingering camera shots. He still supposedly has an 8 ball of heroin somewhere, because he didn't swallow it. It seems like Freddy is grooming him because he thinks Nas is the only person smart enough to run things when Freddy is transferred to another prison and maybe he wants to have a connection at Rikers.

I don't know how they would wrap all that up in 2 episodes however.

The stepfather is definitely growing shadier. Although, he seemed to have been in a genuine state of shock/out of sorts when he was called in to ID Andrea so I have my doubts about any involvement on his part. But their feud is certainly enough to cast at least some reasonable doubt in Nas's favor.

If the spoilers about the Brit original upthread hold true, I'm liking the hearse driver/mortician for the real perp. IIRC he wasn't even pumping at the station when the cab pulled in. H was just standing around like he was waiting for someone, and pulled out immediately after Nas and Andrea. Dude is probably a serial killer and he had been on the prowl for a new victim.

In the preview for this week's episode they revisit the drawer where Andrea got the knife to cut the limes via a flashback to the night of the murder or perhaps from the murderer's point of view. Is the red stain in the plastic cutlery divider blood or nail polish? Someone on Reddit said that there were three knives in the drawer at one point. Then we were given a brief glance inside the drawer where make-up and nail polish that is used to groom the cadavers is kept in the mortuary. I find it hard to believe that these random details are just misdirection on the part of the writers. Such a horrific, head-line making murder of a young woman who clearly comes from money, and who was the sole beneficiary of her mother's estate, and no one in the NYPD murder squad bothered to look into who might benefit the most from her death? I read somewhere that the deer head is a stand-in for the murderer's POV. Someone was already in the house when Andrea came home and was watching her and Naz. In a couple of scenes the deer head is shot so that it looks like it is tracking Nas as he moves from the living room to the staircase. I tend to focus on the investigatory aspects of the case because watching Naz' descent into a world that he won't be able to come back from whether he is innocent or guilty is just too fucking depressing. I think Freddy takes perverted pleasure in re-making Naz in his own image. That goody two-shoes college boy with a supportive family and a bright future is no better than the rest of the pond scum given the right circumstances. Z

Hoping Nas says fuck it and decides to get his dick sucked as well.

Chandra is a bright woman. Why didn't she follow up on the possibility that the hearse guy might have known Andrea or had some marginal contact with her in the past? After all, her mother's funeral was only two years ago. Who made the funeral arrangements and what funeral home handled the mother's wake? Was the same home used for Andrea's burial arrangements? Considering how frightened Chandra was of the hearse guy why didn't they hire a P.I. to look into the guy's background if the cops weren't interested? And what happened to Duane Reade? Why didn't Stone give an interview off the record to the Post or Daily News and talk about how there were other potential suspects in the case yet the cops only focused their investigation on Naz and an open and shut case? Stone is both an asset and a liability to Chandra at this point but his lack of experience in a murder trial is killing them. Also, did he try to hit on her?

I think a lot of the weird stares like the one from the hearse driver are supposed to suggest anti-muslim sentiment. The comments from the two men who pass the couple on the their way in, the references to "towel head" and the questions about at the press conference about his connections to Pakistan are other examples. Remember Freddie talking about how the Nation of Islam members hate Naz because they know he's a "real" muslim? Now some mosques have been firebombed.

I am glad he saved the Kitty!! Now Naz needs to go to the "dark side" and explore his "Prison Homosexuality"

Let's go with the idea that Andrea had previous contact with the hearse guy because the funeral home he works for, or owns, did the burial arrangements for her mother. And in the interim two years he's been stalking her off and on and was following her the night of. She gets into Naz' cab to get away from him but doesn't seem panicked because she sees him as more of a joke than an actual threat. The hearse driver follows them to the gas station and is just loitering until they get on the road again. She realizes that he's been following them from the time they left the East Village and she deliberately flicks the cigarette at him in defiance. He comes over to the window and says the part about her being his next passenger and puts the butt out on the rolled up window. A not so veiled threat. When Naz notices the guy staring at him he asks her what's the guy's problem. She says who cares. He's probably given her the "speech" about what kind of a woman she is and the bible passage about Samson and Delilah. She doesn't scare easily. She gets fucked up and plays a game that can inflict serious damage on herself or someone else for Christ's sake. Unlike Chandra who really sees how off the wall the guy is and how he might have a propensity for violence against women. He likens Andrea to a cat because he's watched her over and over again seducing guys like a cat on a hot tin roof and references the cat to toy with Chandra because he's been in Andrea's house on prior stalkings and knows that she has a cat and it was by watching the cat that he knew the security gate was broken. The deer head represents his presence in the house. He might have placed a camera there or is just like the deer, a silent, ever present witness to what goes on in her depraved and sinful existence. If the spoilers for the original show are correct then he is definitely the guy the defense needs to bring to the attention of the police in order to raise reasonable doubt. Perhaps what Duane was staring at so intensely was seeing hearse guy inside the house and recognizing him as someone he's seen in the neighborhood, possibly watching the house, or following Andrea. Couldn't a religious wacko like that guy be capable of working up enough righteous anger to stab a woman who he considered a "destroyer" 22 times in a rage fueled frenzy? The slaughter of a true whore of Babylon? Who would blame him?

i agree with R187, seeing Nas be controlled by scumbag freddy is too depressing to even talk about anymore. I so want to think Nas is doing it all as part of some grand plan to get out from under Freddy's control, but it doesn't seem likely anymore since there's only 2 episodes left. Plus now it doesn't seem like it's "that kind of show." I'm disappointed in that regard.

I do like the above hearse driver theory. Also this stuff where they are still gathering evidence and doing investigative work AFTER the trial starts is very far from real life. Also disappointed they are doing this, they didn't need to, it's not like the show lacked excitement.

I was loving the first few episodes and this one leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I hope the final two change my mind......

How long has it been since the killing and the start of the trial?

I'm surprised to learn that the actor playing Naz is in his mid-30s. He looks early 20s, which of course is his character's age.

Even if acquitted, Naz is coming out of prison an addict & who knows what else. And I'm sure this happens all the time to people in prison.

What are the chances that Freddy doesn't know Petey is gay as a goose? I mean the kid clutches imaginary pearls. Perhaps the agreement with the mom is that he will protect her son from being raped repeatedly as a cell block pass-a-round but Freddy tells Petey what, and who, he does willingly is his own business. Petey seems like he's trying to impart to Naz that he's stressed despite being under Freddy's protection. A warning to Naz perhaps? Freddy's right hand man might be demanding sex from Petey but doesn't want anyone to know that he likes the homosex and if Freddy finds out and thinks it could put his deal with Petey's mom at risk he will take him out. So nosey Naz lingering at that window for whatever reason is another really stupid choice and puts him in the position of having to look over his shoulder again. Better get out those shower shoes, bro. Or do what Freddy wants and take him out yourself. Can't you see it coming?

[quote]Even if acquitted, Naz is coming out of prison an addict & who knows what else. And I'm sure this happens all the time to people in prison.

That, to me, is the show. The L&O stuff, like Stone talking to the estate lawyer, is rote and uninteresting.

Very good theories R192

R194, I don't know the time elapsed between the crime and time of the trial. It doesn't seem like very long though, which is unrealistic. If they have given this info out, I missed it.

I looked up the meaning of 21 in the bible. 22 stab wounds. 21 inflicted by the killer, minus the one Naz accidentally inflicted while playing that stupid game. 21 stands for the great wickedness of rebellion and sin and exceeding sinfulness of sin. There are 21 sins that humans commit according to the Christian faith. Among them are loving money, bragging, selfishly loving themselves, falsely accusing, being hard-headed, fierce, disrespecting and refusing to listen to their parents. You get the idea. Pretty tame when compared to the seven deadly sins but to a religious nut case might any or all of them be reason enough to kill the sinner? Particularly when the young and depraved woman who you believe to be a destroyer embodies all of them? And how would the killer know that unless he knew her or watched her intently over a period of time? Interesting that Naz gets the word sin tattooed on one hand. Which leads me right back to square one.

This is why I hate the internet.

r197 Are you sure it was Petey in that scene or was it actually the female guard Freddy was hooking up with earlier in the season? I was thinking he didn't want Freddy finding out that his girl was lending her services to his crew after telling him she couldn't keep up whatever arrangements they had.

R203, it clearly showed his face.

Lol shit are my eyes bad. I had assumed that was the situation at first but I think I mistook his dark shirt for the uniform.

Why is the courtroom so empty? Is that realistic for such a publicized trial?

Any chance Naz's mom is the killer?

This may be a long shot, but as soon as I saw sin and bad, I thought of Arabian Nights and Sinbad the Sailor. Is it supposed to say Sinbad or Sin AND bad? Either way, I'm concerned with that decision. Is he planning on taking the stand in his own defense? Because that just looks bad.

I'm surprised how quickly Naz has changed since he's been in prison with the drugs and tattoos. He adapted a little too well to the environment. Initially I thought Freddy was trying to get close to Naz to get a jailhouse confession and reduce his sentence, but Freddy is up to something else. Freddy basically dissidents he's in for life. Maybe he wants some brains on his team.

I'm afraid that this is how Naz is going to wind up spending his life in jail. That thug is going to try and establish his dominance by forcing Naz to be his new Petey. We know that Naz has poor impulse control and once his anger takes over he is certainly capable of beating someone nearly to death. He may well get off on the murder one charge on a technicality. Or new evidence will prove that he is innocent and he can appeal a conviction. But beating another inmate to death while on trial for murder is something even Freddy won't be able to fix. Also troubling is his growing fixation with Chandra. He has some anger issues with women. His mother for one. The cunt lawyer. Perhaps Andrea pissed him off for some reason. The boyfriend showed up at the house after Naz passed out. He and Andrea had sex and when he discovered another man had been there ahead of him he lost it and killed her?

Either way John Turturro deserves an Emmy.

R211, agree 100%

If this were a feature film he would deserve an OSCAR. Every episode is a master class in acting. Also, the two people who cast this show are going to be very busy for a very long time. Even the small role of the bodega worker is spot on as anyone who lives in New York can tell you. I watched a talk that Turturro gave at the New School and for someone with his talent he is the least actorly actor in the business. When the moderator asked him who his greatest mentor was as an actor he answered "The Million Dollar Movie when I was a kid". Another reason to love this guy. WOR in NYC would run the same movie at the same time of day for five days in a row. Nirvana for this kid if they were showing Gunga Din or Mighty Joe Young or The Thing From Another World. He also talked about being in total awe of Paul Newman. Such a likable guy. And he knows how to tell a funny story.

[quote] Freddy basically dissidents he's in for life.

Huh?

I rewatched Samson and Delilah and a few things struck me as more than just contrived coincidences that I hadn't picked up on the first go round. There is something significant about creepy hearse guy painting the nails of the deceased woman in front of Chandra AND the particular polish that he chooses. Is the polish a trophy that he flaunts right in her face? Why are we shown, albeit very fleetingly, the contents of the drawer where the polish is kept? Is that where he keeps all of his trophys? And the one drop of polish that he deliberately lets drip on the sheet. Is he recreating some detail from the murder right in front of her? Toying with her. Like a cat? Why did the camera linger on the deceased woman's hand? That shot reminded me of Andrea's bloody hand in the opening credits. I originally thought it was simply to show us that she was still wearing her jewelry so it wasn't a robbery gone bad. But now I think there is something more to it. And what about the red stain in the knife drawer? It could be blood or....nail polish? Is it possible that he painted Andrea's nails while she was still passed out and then went looking for a murder weapon and left a smear of polish in the drawer? Is creepy hearse guy a serial? Perhaps the ending will be exactly like the original. I wouldn't mind because they have done a masterful job of keeping us enthralled so far. And of course, the big pay off won't be the reveal of who actually killed her, but whether Naz does time for this crime, or another crime that he commits while at Rikers, or if he lives long enough to see any of this to it's conclusion. See, I get it:)

r215, as far as the nail polish goes, sometimes I don't know whether they are trying to be "artistic" or if it actually means something. I thought that he messed up a dripped the nail polish because of the question Chandra asked him. It made him flinch. But I like your theory better. :)

It made me sad to watch his poor mother having to mop floors to make money.

I think you are right, r216. I forgot the question she asked, maybe "where did you go?" after the gas station, and it spooked him. That is when he really became irritated with her. And perhaps the drop of red polish on the white sheet was meant to be symbolic as well. I paused the part where he opens the drawer to put the perfume back. I'm obsessed! It was full of old lipsticks and bottles of polish, and that perfume, but in the center of all those items was a lipstick tube, or maybe a nail polish bottle, it was impossible to see what it was because it was upside down and surrounded by the other items in the drawer, but the label on the bottom was clearly visible and it identified the color as Elegant Cognac. I don't think this is a misdirection. There is something significant about the contents of that drawer and perhaps that particular item. I also think the murder knife is hidden in the refrigerator;) Also, it took me forever to figure out what he said after she asked him about the man (Naz) who was with Andrea. He said. "That was not a man, that was a BALL OF YARN". I think he was in the house and watched them play the stabby game and saw how she totally manipulated Naz. But then again, just because hearse guy was in the house doesn't mean he killed her. Naz could still be guilty. The flashback is triggering his memory and the look on his face says he's starting to have doubts about his innocence. Christ, I love this show!

The reason for Naz' pent-up rage is that he's gay. Hence, all the looks in prison. When he wasn't able to perform with Andrea, he went into a rage and stabbed her.

I think John Turturro's feet deserve an emmy at least.

I considered a Mr. Goodbar situation after the first episode because there seemed to be a lot of blood on her buttocks. She had several knife wounds to her back so the blood might have just trickled down and pooled below the waist. I thought it odd, and kind of interesting, that with all the jail house schooling he's received, most notably about never asking anyone personal questions, and never looking anyone in the eye, he would linger at that window watching the thug get a blowjob. The look on his face was definitely not one of repulsion so who knows?

And Best Supporting for the much abused and maligned chopstick, r220.

Might I add that the actor who plays Petey did a great job with the, you know. Particularly the bit about stroking the cock to keep it hard while he eyeballed Naz at the window. I can't think of a weak link in this cast. Everyone is just phenomenal.

i thought it was the female guard with the short hair also

For what, r224? Giving the guy the blowjob? Freddy's girlfriend is pretty. Just a tad butch but she's working with male convicts. Some of whom are there for rape and murdering women. She's allowed to act like Miss Rough n Stuff if that's what she needs to assert her authority. Plus, she doesn't look anything like Petey. And she most definitely doesn't look like she owns a set of pearls;)

R218, I agree about him doubting his innocence now. Maybe the events will be revealed through his flashbacks. The ball of yarn thing could just be because that man calls women "cats." But I agree, they are spending too much time on the hearse driver for it to be misdirection. Unless they are just trying to develop the Chandra character and used him to do it.

Also I agree with R221 that Nas lingered way too long at the cell door for the blowjob. I was like, ummm, is this a gay plot twist? The only other thing I thought was maybe he was stunned because it was Petey, and also started to think about having to do that himself. I JUST DON'T KNOW!!!

Sometimes a shot of blood red nail polish us just a shot of blood red nail polish. If you read too much into everything, you might be disappointed.

I'm not going to be disappointed, r227. The show is fetching all on it's own. I don't need a Colombo type resolution at the end. It's just that every week I think I have it figured out who the killer is and then they throw a wrench into the works that causes me to throw my latest theory right out the window. Despite some protests to the contrary, even Turturro said the show was in part a "who done it". It's fun to follow the clues but so many questions go unanswered,or are not asked at all, by the investigators, the prosecution, and the defense. Just answer me this. Why did we need to see the contents of the knife drawer and the bin at the mortuary?

GET IT NAAAAAASSSSS!

Trudie Styler! UGH! How many favors did that bitch have to call in to get on this show?

Box knows Nas didn't do it but just wants to get this one overwith.

That ending was beautifully filmed. Violent, but beautiful.

There goes my theory of Freddy making Nas kill someone to earn his spot. Freddy did it himself. Oh well.

Nas has become unlikable.

The finale next week is supposedly 90 minutes long.

I made the mistake of watching the UK series this show is based on, Criminal Justice, since it's almost a decade old and is one of the few things on Hulu that looks interesting me. I thought the HBO version was going to end up a little different, but after tonight's episode, it's become crystal clear that they are modeling the entire plot on its predecessor. There might be some differences, but the endgame is assured and its kind of spoiled things for me. But I do think this show is vastly superior to the original, so I'm still digging the tone and the performances.

I guess Petey was not into those blowjobs after all. I felt pretty bad for that kid. His expression exuded misery in his every scene.

The real question here is how is Freddy going to get his drugs now?

Trudie and Stone would make a good couple. They both have ugly feet. Just when you think they couldn't add a new twist to the story, the young black girl is murdered with the same M.O. and Box says out loud that they might have a serial. Then the asshole gets on the stand and says there was a mountain of evidence against Naz knowing Andrea's killer might still be out there killing more women. There is another reason why Box took the inhaler from the crime scene. It could be inferred that Andrea was still alive when Naz went down to the kitchen for water. And wouldn't Naz take the inhaler with him if he did it? It has a label with his name as well as the name of the pharmacy that filled the prescription and the patient I.D number..... and his prints. After all, he took the murder weapon. I really dislike Weiss. Freddy killing Victor was very satisfying but Naz knew before he saw the blow joy that Petey was stressed and Victor was the reason.

" It could be inferred that Andrea was still alive when Naz went down to the kitchen for water. "

How so, R238? Can you explain this. Thanks.

From the promo for next week's finale, I'm getting the feeling that there is tension between Freddy and Nas. Maybe Nas knows he's gonna be in Rikers forever and wants to beome top dog?

Okay, here goes, r239. I read on Reddit that it is very likely that there was cat dander on Andrea's bed even if she had changed the sheets that day. The cat seems like it was used to hanging out on the bed and probably snuggled up to sleep with her the same way it did to Stone. The fact that the inhaler was found on the bed could mean that at some point during the night Naz needed to use it. Probably due to the exposure to the cat dander. But asthma can also be brought on by stress. Isn't it reasonable to assume that the unbridled rage that would cause a person to savagely stab a young woman over and over and over again, not to mention the physical exertion that it would take, could most assuredly trigger an asthma attack if the person suffered with it.? If Naz used the inhaler any time after the murder it would be covered in blood. Yet there is no blood on Naz, no blood on his clothes, except for the pocket where he placed the knife, NO blood on the inhaler, and only a minimal amount of blood on the so called murder weapon. Which he explained was the knife used to play the stabby game. Box took the inhaler from the crime scene because the absence of blood on a key piece of evidence belonging to the defendant, and in such a bloody crime scene as that one, plus the lack of blood on Naz and on his clothes, would be enough to create reasonable doubt. That's what Chandra meant when she said the inhaler didn't "fit".

Let me put it this way: They finish having sex. She's groggy from the E and K but still cognizant and tells Naz she's thirsty. She tells him that the kitchen is on the ground floor and would he get her something to drink? He puts on his boxers and t-shirt because he doesn't know if anyone else lives there and he doesn't feel comfortable walking around the house naked. He goes to the kitchen on the ground floor, gets himself a glass of water, then opens the refrigerator to look for something liquid. he can bring back to Andrea, starts to feel dizzy, sits down at the kitchen table and passes out. In the meantime the killer comes in through the open ground floor gate, comes up the stairs, but doesn't see Naz because of the blind spot that blocks the view of the kitchen. He rummages through some drawers in the sitting room looking for something he can use as a weapon and finds the fourth knife in the set she keeps in the bar and walks up another flight of stairs and finds Andrea naked and passed out on the bed. He murders her and then leaves through the second floor window. Climbing down the tree to the garden level. That's when he sees Naz with his head down on the kitchen table through the glass door and high tails it out of there. Naz wakes up and goes upstairs to get the rest of his clothes and to tell Andrea he's leaving. He doesn't see the inhaler at the foot of the bed where he left it before going down to the kitchen and it becomes logged and catalogued as part of the evidence at the crime scene. Only it's clean as a whistle. Doesn't have a speck of blood on it. It doesn't fit the narrative that Box comes up with in regards to Naz. So he takes it hoping that it will be forgotten and lost in that mountain of evidence that he does have to make his case. If it doesn't FIT, you must acquit. Very clever of Chandra to turn that bullshit back on Weiss.

Let me add that the killer might have dropped the murder weapon in the yard when he was climbing down the tree and it landed in those leaves where Dr. Katz found the "squirrel" blood. Maybe some of the killer's blood was mixed with Andrea's blood on the murder weapon. And it happened just like the ME described it. With the knife slipping and cutting the killer's hand. And just maybe that blood doesn't match Naz' blood type. Just the fact that Andrea's blood was found outside the house and was still fresh would be enough for the jury to find Naz innocent due to reasonable doubt. Also, the kiss between Naz and Chandra was probably caught on that security camera and would be grounds for an appeal if he should be found guilty. She would also have to step down as his defense attorney and this would allow Stone to step in and give the closing summation to the jury and thus give Turturro one last time to shine. Heeeere's Emmy.

Maybe that's why she kissed him, R243. She knows he has no chance otherwise.

She did look a bit strange before the kiss, like she was hesitant to do it because she knew that she was throwing her own career away, but she really has feelings for him and believes he's innocent, and maybe has decided that the law just isn't for her. She'd make a hell of a Forensics Pathologist;) I wonder if the blood results from the sample Katz took from the backyard is still being tested or if there is some legal wrangling involved to see if it can be introduced into evidence. I don't think we have seen the last of Katz because the defense has not rested their case. Or maybe surveillance video from the crime scene of the young black woman's murder will show that one of the people the defense introduced as possible suspects, or even the step-father, will be caught on tape leaving the scene of the crime or lurking about waiting for the victim.

One last thought. The deceased woman who creepy hearse guy was grooming at the mortuary was black. The murder victim who Box said reminded him of Andrea was a young black woman. Is Day choosing his victims from a well of bereaved family members who use his funeral parlor to bury their relatives? Does he stalk them like a cat? Does he toy with them before killing them? Are they his balls of yarn? Does he wait months, or even a couple of years, so there won't be an obvious connection to him or the funeral home? Could I be any more melodramatic? Is that the connection Box is going to discover when he decides to look into Duane Reade, and Day, and possibly the step-father? Who is the only one who had an actual motive to kill Andrea? Is Box finally going to do his fucking job and redeem himself and his reputation by finding the real killer?

[quote]Every episode is a master class in acting

Agreed. Just binged this show I am so impressed by the majority of the cast. Such great acting.

[quote]Nas has become unlikable.

That's the whole point of his journey though. We are seeing what the criminal justice system does to someone. It hardens you, it makes you a more dangerous criminal.

So in regards to the cat: the cat is definitely symbolic of Nas and Stone's relationship. Nas is the cat. He's now even entering into Stone's mind while he's sleeping, i.e. the cat getting in bed with Stone. In the first few episodes Stone tried not to worry about the cat, but couldn't help himself and took the cat home. Etc., etc.

What I don't know is if this is the sole purpose of the cat or will the cat reveal some kind of evidence or otherwise come into play in the trial?

Riz Ahmed has been amazing in this series. He's also a achingly beautiful human being.

In TNO, Riz doesn't have to even speak, his expressions and those EYES do all the talking and the acting. The first hit he took of that heroin, was incredibly heartbreaking. That scene was seconds long, yet was really jolting. That's what I call acting.

Riz was gorgeous in Winterbottom's "Trisha". His character became a real piece of shit to Freida Pinto's character, but Riz was stunning and the acting, most improvised by Riz and Freida, was quite good. Riz is usually extremely thin, he looks much better with some meat on his bones, but his face always remains handsome and flawless.

He co-starred with DL fave Kate Hudson in "The Reluctant Fundamentalist". Kate looked awful and much older in a terrible brown wig. Kate is so obsessed with her looks, it was surprising she didn't complain about that horrendous wig. In the film, Kate looked more like Riz' older sister than his lover. The wig was that bad, it was extremely unflattering.

After seeing a few of Riz' films and TV series, in most of his roles, he seems to take his clothes off, must be in his contract. :) Unfortunately, he doesn't go the Full Monty.

The cat is something Stone can save. He never knew Andrea, but he's a parent. Stone wanted Naz to take the plea and probably thinks the jury could still comeback with a guilty verdict.

Riz was excellent in a movie called Four Lions, as well, R249. Glad to hear 'Trisha' is good. Winterbottom can be so hit or miss, and I know the story is an adaptation on Tess of the d'Urbervilles. I just want to see Riz in some sex scenes. He is a beautiful man and incredibly articulate. I might actually watch the new Star Wars for him.

R251, excuse the typos in my post about Riz and "Trishna" etc. This 'new' DL forum format sucks. The type is light grey on my browser, I can barely see what I'm typing. I miss the old forum format.

Yes, I was aware "Trishna" was an adaptation of Tess. The two male characters were combined as one, Riz character. You can see how he transforms into an evil deceptive brutal man towards Freida's character.

There were sex scenes in "Trishna", but not much is shown. Riz and Freida appear to be nude in one scene, when he rapes her from behind, but we don't see his ass or much of Freida, she's face down on a bed. Unless the version I saw was cut for India. There are two versions of this film.

Riz does seem to move quite well during the sex scenes, we just don't see much of his body.

Did you know he was a rapper/MC? I can't say I enjoy his music, but he truly is an amazing actor and a smart, sexy guy. Riz group played in Brooklyn a few weeks ago, a friend attended, he enjoyed the music.

FYI, the inmate Naz beat up in Rikers, is also a UK rapper and actually a friend of Riz' in real life.

.

R251, excuse the typos in my post about Riz and "Trishna" etc. This 'new' DL forum format sucks. The type is light grey on my browser, I can barely see what I'm typing. I miss the old forum format.

Yes, I was aware "Trishna" was an adaptation of Tess. The two male characters were combined as one, Riz character. You can see how he transforms into an evil deceptive brutal man towards Freida's character.

There were sex scenes in "Trishna", but not much is shown. Riz and Freida appear to be nude in one scene, when he rapes her from behind, but we don't see his ass or much of Freida, she's face down on a bed. Unless the version I saw was cut for India. There are two versions of this film.

Riz does seem to move quite well during the sex scenes, we just don't see much of his body.

Did you know he was a rapper/MC? I can't say I enjoy his music, but he truly is an amazing actor and a smart, sexy guy. Riz group played in Brooklyn a few weeks ago, a friend attended, he enjoyed the music.

FYI, the inmate Naz beat up in Rikers, is also a UK rapper and actually a friend of Riz' in real life.

Naz is gone. Freddy has turned him into a mirror image of himself. Naz even adopts his swagger when he walks. Regarding the cat: Stone doesn't close the cat room door completely and the cat is able to pry it open. Probably learned that trick at Andrea's. We know that the security gate lock is rusted which prevents the gate from closing properly so it would be easy for the cat to push it open. We also know that she is lax about locking the kitchen door too. If the cat was able to get back inside the house while the killer was still there it's possible that the cat had some physical contact with the killer and has some trace evidence like DNA on it's body. Maybe the killer did cut himself on the knife. Or it could be something else. Like embalming fluid? The Maneki Neko waving it's paw in the storefront in Chinatown could be a foreshadowing.

I should have written that she was lax about locking the ground floor door that leads to the kitchen;)

Here's hoping Riz and Diego Luna have some hot gay sex scenes in the next Star Wars movie. That's totally in the realm of possibility, right?

So many posters on the internet love to WAY over analyze shit to a laughable level and draw some absurd conclusions. The same shit I remember happened with True Detective and many of other shows.

You are clearly seeing it again in this thread.

Who cares? It's a who done it. And if you knew who done it you would have posted a spoiler WEEKS ago. You are WAY too obvious.

It's fun to analyze it! Some of the things I read on reddit are a little too much for me, but this show is definitely full of symbolism. The writers even said it.

Exactly, r259. The show works on many levels and being one helluva murder mystery is just one part of a very complex drama. I found the scene between Naz and Petey's mom to be very depressing. The woman is debasing herself to save her son from the horror of repeated sexual abuse, or worse, and it's all for naught. Naz was such an cold hearted asshole to this woman. And then to see how Petey takes matters into his own hands to relieve his suffering was very moving. I focus on the mystery because the scenes about prison life and Naz becoming more dehumanized everyday is perhaps too real for me.

The cat is going to be a major clue in the last episode, the stepfather and the morgue guy as well. Freddy has set up Naz for the throat slashing because he's lost his carrier and needs a new go-to boy. nah is staying in Rikers but will be cleared of the girl's murder. And in a townhouse like that, why wouldn't there be a video recording system? Maybe it's inside the moose head. I think Dwayne Reade saw the morgue guy enter the house and the morgue guy is allergic to the cat. Richard Price has a habit of punishing the innocent and springing last minute surprises we should have seen from the beginning. And I'll bet Raz's mom ends up with a gun.

[quote]It made me sad to watch his poor mother having to mop floors to make money.

And her too. Too sad to run a comb or brush through that gorgon's mane.

What are you talking about R262? The actress who plays Nas's mom is gorgeous!

I agree, R263, indeed she is. I was being flippant.

I understand the gorgon hair - though it did seem odd that her hair was especially wild during the opening arguments of the trial. Even if she went to court with doubts about her son's culpability, it seems she might have run a comb through her hair -- maybe all the more so because of those doubts.

You all realize the cat did it.

Yes, but it was the moose head's idea to frame Naz.

No, r266 and r265, Box is the killer, he used the moose head as the weapon and the cat was his look out.

NO!! The Kitty didn't do it,the KITTY is GOOD!!

Naz will get off since his legal representation has been compromised - the relationship between him and his defence lawyer is obviously inappropriate. With regard to who's done it: who cares...

[quote]With regard to who's done it: who cares...

Most people would disagree with you. The show is a murder mystery, after all.

Calling a murder mystery is pretty inaccurate, only a small portion of the show has been dedicated to that. Episodes 3 and 4 for instance didn't even touch any "mystery" aspects.

Naz really is dumb. Just because someone excels in school doesn't mean they have a lick of common sense or emotional intelligence. Freddy needs a new snatch to carry those eight-balls. He urged Naz to stay in touch with his parents because he wanted a back-up plan in case the arrangement with Petey's mom petered out so to speak. If he could talk Naz and his mother into a similar arrangement he would have had Victor retrieve the drugs. But the best laid plans of a crime boss often come to naught........ Now that Naz is estranged from his Mom and Victor is dead Freddy needs to go to plan B. That's why he's encouraged Naz to try and get close to Chandra to get her to like him. If she cares about him in a romantic way and he's in danger of being the next convict to leave in a body bag she might come through as the drug mule. But since it is very likely that she will be sanctioned for that kiss and taken off his defense team how could he then ask her to risk being charged with a felony for transporting drugs? Unless, Freddy means to blackmail Naz with the accessory to murder charge. Freddy will take the wrap for Victor because it's just another body on him and he gets to stay longer at Rikers. But he needs someone on the outside to get certain things done and if Naz gets off on the murder one charge and then tries to extricate himself from Freddy to try to have a semblance of a normal life he will be right back in jail on a new murder charge. The guy is fucked coming and going. So maybe it won't matter who killed Andrea after all. At least for Naz.

I was convinced Naz was innocent until he kissed the attorney. Now I think he's guilty.

Do you think Freddy schooled Naz on how to get a mistrial and told him one of the ways is to get romantically or sexually involved with his female lawyer, r273? Is Naz just using her? I thought he had real feelings for her but he is amoral. He was not a goody two shoes before he met Andrea. He was just a skinny nerd who women over looked because he didn't "have game".

Wish he had kissed John Turturro—then you'd have a show!

The Russian trainer at the gym and the stepfather are in the murder together.

The finale is tomorrow?

Yes, the finale is tomorrow.

They haven't shown Naz having that hazy memory of a room with a bright ceiling fixture and what looks like straps from a black bra, or several bras, or even a slip, though that seems unlikely, that are suspended from something but what? A shower curtain rod perhaps? Lots of women hand wash their undies and bras. Is this a vague memory of him being in the bathroom and showering or washing the blood off after the murder? Also, there is a staircase outside of Andrea's bedroom but I thought the townhouse was a three story brownstone. The killer could have been hiding up there watching them having sex and then moving in for the kill after Naz went downstairs and passed out. There is lots of speculation as to whether Stone takes the cat back to the pound to be euthanized. Why would he do that when there are so many no-kill shelters and cat havens in New York City and it would be easy to find information about them. Or just walk into any Petco. Many of them have cat adoption centers. Plus, he loves the cat. He won't give up until he finds a home for it. I think he gets a call from the young guy who works at the pound because someone else has been in asking about the cat. And that person is the young, friendly, and all too eager to point the finger at the step-father, Financial Planner. It's his cat. And he killed Andrea in a jealous rage.

Should have written that we haven't seen him having that hazy memory in a while now. He seems to be having more flashbacks to Andrea post-mortem in that bloody bed.

Why would the inhaler on the bed NOT be covered in blood if he had a cut on his hand from a slippery, blood covered knife. It looks like it was just plonked on there as an afterthought by the killer.

He took a hit off the inhaler before they had sex. So he probably dropped it on the bed. The point is why isn't there any blood on it after the murder? Stress would bring on an asthma attack and stabbing someone 21 times is what I'd call a stressful situation. He'd surely need a hit after that slaughter. Just the cut on his hand from the broken glass caused him to leave a large blood smear on the top of the cab. He has NO blood on him otherwise. Not even from Andrea's cut hand when she was holding his face and kissing him. He def cleaned up. Whether he killed her or not is another matter. He doesn't remember going to the kitchen so would it be a stretch that he doesn't remember washing up? Except that he is having that flashback to a staircase, a brightly lit room, and black straps that look like they are part of an article, or articles, of clothing. She was wearing a black bra. He was in her bathroom at some point. Is the shocking reveal going to be when he finally remembers that he turned on the bathroom light and saw himself in the bathroom mirror covered in blood? We never saw Dr. Katz go into the bathroom to check for evidence. Or Stone. Or Chandra. Or any of the crime scene cops. Or Box. No one addresses the lack of blood evidence on him or his clothes. I find that very strange.

[quote]i agree with [R187], seeing Nas be controlled by scumbag freddy is too depressing to even talk about anymore.

Despite his scumbagness, Freddy is Nas' savior.

No one else noticed that the presiding judge is the Spaghetti Monster/Yellow King from True Detective? I think every actor on this show, no matter how small the role, wanted to be a part of this to honor Gandolfini. They have all done him proud. Can't believe it's all over after tonight. Looking forward to tonight's finale with a strange mix of excitement, sadness, and anxiety for the outcome. Despite his many character flaws, an appalling lack of common sense, severely stunted emotional intelligence, and poor judgement, I think it's fair to say that most of us have come to care about Naz, his family, Stone, Chandra Kitty No Name, and even Andrea, and are hoping for something short of a miracle. Or.....we can look forward to the sequel. Freddy and Naz do Oz.

"a brightly lit room" One of the theories about a light coming from a room, the murderer was already in Andrea's brownstone before Andrea and Naz got there. If you recall when Duane was glaring at Andrea, there were some lights already on in some rooms. Then again, Andrea was so reckless, she possibly left lights on and also that side gate was likely always left open.

If the series ending follows the original UK version, "Criminal Justice", I think many viewers will be deeply unsatisfied. Even some of the dialog has been the same!

In the UK version, the cabbie was a white Londoner, in this, Naz is a New York born student of Pakistani immigrants, his dad is the cabbie. Some aspects were changed , but the series has many of the same elements as the UK version. That's the reason why I think the ending might be the same. I hope not, the US writers had such a great opportunity to not replicate such a predictable ending.

I understand the UK creators were adamant the US version not go beyond one season. Not sure if they also demanded that the ending would be the same.

Naz is already ruined, if he is acquitted, his life has changed in the extreme, as have the lives of his parents and brother.

It seemed Naz' mom was working for a family member in a material/sari shop in Jackson Heights. When Naz went to pick up his mom, he called one woman in the shop "auntie". It's assumed she was his aunt. When your own relative believes your son is a murderer, then fires you during such a horrific and difficult time, well, what more to say?

I am rooting for the cat. The others all annoy.

I expect the ending will be similar to Criminal Justice, they have remained largely faithful to it.

I thought Auntie is meant as a term of endearment not necessarily because the woman is a blood relative. So, if we can watch the original series the show is based on, and the American writers intended all along to have it end the same way, then it was never meant to be a "murder mystery" after all. Looks like I got suckered in all over again. True Detective style. Damn.

If Naz did, indeed, murder Andrea and showered. Are we to believe he showered in some type of fugue state? He was drugged and drunk out of his mind.

If so, where are the bloodied towels, none were found. Was the bathroom even checked, by anyone? Box' team, Stone, Chandra, Dr. Katz? I have to re-watch the series from the beginning.

This series has so many plot holes. If the acting wasn't so damn great, I would give it a low rating.

Riz Ahmed has been amazing, Naz' transformation has been flawless, not only the physical aspect. Riz has certainly mastered many accents and dialects over his brief career, I'd enjoy seeing him in another comedy, like "Four Lions". John Turturro has been excellent, as always. Bill Camp has also been amazing, I know Bill from his stage work. hard to believe he is only 45, he looks about 60!

I was surprised to read the performers who portray Naz' parents are only about 10 years older than he is. Riz Ahmed looks much younger than his actual age. This will be a plus for him if he continues working in the US. UK films and series seem to feature performers who look their actual ages. In UK productions, we tend to see performers who resemble 'real' people, rather than Botoxed and plastic-surgeried movie stars.

Speaking of, WTF happened to Trudie Styler's face! Another face lift?! Also, There was nothing wrong with her nose, now she seems to have the dreaded 'skeleton nose'.

[quote]If Naz did, indeed, murder Andrea and showered. Are we to believe he showered in some type of fugue state? He was drugged and drunk out of his mind. If so, where are the bloodied towels, none were found. Was the bathroom even checked, by anyone?

No. The lack of blood on Naz and any evidence of him trying to clean himself up has never been mentioned in the series and I don't expect it to be. It's one of those things as an audience you just have to look past.

[quote]then it was never meant to be a "murder mystery" after all.

Not really. I mean there is the mysterious murder that sets the story in motion, but being a murder mystery was never the main goal of this series or of the UK version.

Just watched all 7 eps. Don't have a clue who dunnit.

If no one from the defense team is going to bring up a lack of blood evidence on him or his clothes, save for the pocket where he placed the knife with a minimal amount of Andrea's blood on it, which has already been addressed and disputed in cross, then that my friends is piss poor lawyering and he deserves a mistrial. And what about the hazy, vague, memory that he keeps flashing back to? Are we to forget about that, too? I understand that it was never meant to be a murder mystery per se but some of this shit has to be addressed in the finale or we will have been had. I can't believe that seasoned writers like Price and Zaillan are going to leave all of these loose ends hanging and leave it up to the audience to decide if he did it or not. Why not just fade to black before the jury renders it's verdict and play DON'T STOP BELIEVING? That is some bullshit right there. I don't need to get the ending I want but I damn well want a definitive answer. Not whether he's acquitted or found guilty but did he actually KILL that girl?

I honestly didn't know that was Trudie Styles until someone here posted it. Something about her voice, and the way she delivered her lines, reminded me of another actress in another movie and it was driving me crazy. And then it hit me. Maureen O'Sullivan in Hannah and Her Sisters. I thought she did a good job.

Of course TNO is not just about 'who killed Andrea', it's clear it's an indictment of the US judicial system and how the NYPD handles suspects, their laziness and all around sloppy work. The absurd Rikers system .

Then, there's the racism aspect, we've seen the covers of NY's right wing numbskull tabloid, The New York Post several times throughout the series. Let's not forget, the vile Nancy Grace.

Them there's the black woman who was killed in a similar manner to Andrea. Will her murder warrant as much media coverage as the as the Wasp trust fund druggie, Andrea suspected of being killed by a young man who happens to be a Pakistani Muslim from Queens?

Of course, with a nearly 2 hour finale, the murder of the black woman will likely, and finally, open up Box' eyes, there's a serial killer on the loose. You think?

Question, r294. Did you watch the U.K original Criminal Justice? I understand that some who have watched it were hoping that Price would go with a different ending for this version. But if they remain faithful to the originaI I could be happy with that. I have only read spoilers, not watched the original show, but they will have managed to make the killer scary and believable as it is and my own amateur detective skills will have been vindicated;) I also hope that the vague sliver of memory that keeps haunting Naz will become more clear to him and will at least prove to himself that he is innocent. At least of Andrea's murder. He's certainly not the same guy who got caught up in this nightmare. He will have to accept that whatever happens he can never go back to his former life and faces a bleak and uncertain future. Even if he doesn't spend the rest of it in prison. Five more minutes to the finale!

Oh COME ON....the lawyer smuggling drugs in her cooch!!!

Mistrial

Nice NECK tattoo Naz!

Man, I couldn't believe Chandra is as fucking dumb as Naz. A match made in heaven. No mistrial. Nice try, Freddie. And all the good will John Stone built up with the audience is thrown away in that box with Kitty. Fuck him. He deserves to be a bottom feeder. And Weiss. Going ahead despite the new evidence Box found. And Box. Going to all that trouble to find an actual person with motive and opportunity and he keeps it from the defense. Please do the right thing Box!

You're a real shit for killing Kitty John Stone but you did a hellava job in that closing argument and representing your client. John Turturro's talent just took my breath away. I need a hit of Ventolin;)

Kitty makes it!

KITTY!!!!!

I'm just sitting here with a big shit eating grin on my face. Damn, that was good.

KITTY'S BACK....!!!

Poor Naz, he's now a junkie, his parent's need to sell their house.

No happy endings there....

Great acting from all concerned, but a sad ending nonetheless.

I would like to see Season 2 CHANDRA's REVENGE where she loses everything, commits to a life of crime and we see her undoing at Rikers...eventually she becomes a head bitch of her unit.

What did Glenne Headley say to Chandra that was bitchy? I heard her say it's okay, just get on with the trial but then she said something angrily and slammed out.

She told her to clear out her fucking desk r307. Though depends if you want to call that bitchy, any firm would say the thing. She had to know she wouldn't keep her job, no one would have her.

Naz is "free" and has a "happy" ending, but really his life is ruined. Which is realistic. And also Chandras life is ruined. His parents lives are ruined.

Btw, the poster upthread reminds me of that phenomenon where some people care about more animal lives than they ever do about actual human beings. So much obsession over whether the cat was okay.

I too cared that the cat was alive.

I TOTALLY cared about the cat. In case it wenters over your head r308, the cat was a symbol for Nas. Which is why I think we're supposed to believe that Nas will be ok too.

[quote]Which is why I think we're supposed to believe that Nas will be ok too.

Huh? Your optimism is admirable, but I can't disagree more. His last scene was sitting alone smoking heroin wallowing in the emotions of what happened. He is a heroin addict, an outcast from his community, his relationship with his own Mother is broken and he is deeply emotionally damaged.

Going to be okay? I think the show made it clear it is inevitable he will end up in Riker's again some day. The criminal justice system completely chewed him up and permanently upended his path in life, even though it has now moved and forgot about him, he is left broken from it.

It certainly didn't "wenters" over my head.

R311 so angry. If I choose to have an optimistic view of things that's my problem. There's no law that says Nas MUST fail.

R312 it's autocorrect. Obviously. What's your point?

I really thought that Freddy was gonna kiss Naz in the scene where he called him a unicorn. Then, I was so tense while Naz was getting released from jail -- I was sure that he was gonna get shanked by a prisoner or rogue guard.

I wasn't thrilled with the reveal that the financial planner did it - felt squeezed in too late.

[quote]Then, I was so tense while Naz was getting released from jail -- I was sure that he was gonna get shanked by a prisoner or rogue guard.

Yeah, that entire sequence was tense as hell. Wasn't able to relax til he was finally out.

[quote]I wasn't thrilled with the reveal that the financial planner did it - felt squeezed in too late.[/quote]

Well if you are looking at like a traditional mystery novel where the audience is supposed to be able to find the clues and solve the crime...but that was never the point. But at least the audience got closure.

I too thought Naz was "dead man walking" in the prison. Wonder why neither Naz or Freddy made a final move to say goodbye and will Naz visit him or arrange for some more "special deliveries" for his boo in Rikers.

I cried about the cat. Twice.

I think Freddy didn't want to say goodbye to Naz. That final shot of Freddy was very sad and it looks like Naz realized how sad of a person Freddy actually is. He'll never be a great boxer again, or great anything, just a drug addicted prisoner.

I really liked it but because of my very personal ecperience with heroin I felt kind of weepy. I know what he is facing in terms of his addiction. He is only just getting started to live his hell. He is also now alienated from hiis family and his community. He has also made hiimself a pariah with the tattoos as they are forbidden by Islam. His future is bleak and he now has a criminal mindset. I was rooting for the cat also The cat was symbolic of hope as he had so many reprieves. As i hope Nas can be redeemed even if he fails again hopefully he will get his chance to live again.

Well, I'm the poster upthread who was obsessing over whether the cat was "okay" and I worked as a nurse for 38 years, r308. It doesn't have to be an either or situation. People or Critters. Or are you projecting? You bet your ass I was pissed that Stone took Kitty back to that kill shelter. I was hoping that he would once again do the right thing and save the fucking cat. I'm thrilled that he did. Personally, I think you might be pissed because the writers dared to give us closure as to whether Naz was guilty or innocent and presented a good case for Ray being the actual killer. You know. They solved the "murder mystery".

[quote] was so tense while Naz was getting released from jail -- I was sure that he was gonna get shanked by a prisoner or rogue guard.

Yes, It was really intense! In fact, from waiting for the jury's decision to Naz finally walking out of the prison, those were the most suspenseful and nail-biting 15 minutes of tv and there wasn't even any action. Just quiet uncomfortable waiting.... I felt for sure Freddy may slit his throat..but maybe he did believe in his innocence.

It was nice to see Stone finally getting a chance at giving the closing argument. He really didn't believe in himself as noted that allergy attack he had the night before. But it was probably his closing argument that saved Naz. The younger attorney was stupid to let Naz on the witness stand and his argument was the saving grace as well as the detective's new evidence shaking the prosecutor's presentation.

I liked the scene of the cat in the end. It represented a glimmer of hope.

There was one glaring hole that bothered me (not presenting the lack of blood in Naz clothes or evidence of his washing up) but overall, it was an excellent crime drama, better than the first season of TD because it's storyline was consistently strong and believable until the end. It showed how the justice system fails those who don't have the resources to fight it. The evolution of Naz from an innocent hardworking young man to a junkie and pariah was devastating.

"The evolution of Naz from an innocent hardworking young man to a junkie and pariah was devastating." While Andrea was clearly a victim, Naz ended up being the real victim in this tragedy.

It took little more than few dumb mistakes for this intelligent, though naive, young man to end up at Rikers.

Of course, the entire situation was heartbreaking on so many levels. On the other hand, perhaps Naz Rikers experience allowed him to grow up? Becoming addicted to heroin isn't exactly the best way to grow up, yet perhaps, something positive will come out of Naz devastating experience. We will never know.

[quote] There was one glaring hole that bothered me (not presenting the lack of blood in Naz clothes or evidence of his washing up)

For me, one of the best aspects of the series was the approach to evidence and investigation, so antithetical to the usual "good" crime dramas. Instead of some exhaustive, state of the art crime lab considering every fiber and atom of evidence, instead of a team of exploring every angle and re-examining every seeming dead-end we saw a more perfunctory review only of the easy, the convenient evidence and avenues of investigation on the part of the police and a hit-or-miss examination by the well-intentioned defense (and their one expert witness whose findings were quite interesting but of a more low-tech, informed snooping around sort.)

The sorts of advanced molecular forensics and blood-splatter analysis and other techy investigative tools were never going to shine in this series, and their biggest role was by way of their absence.

The knife, the knife, the knife. Kinda-sorta the sort of knife that murdered the girl, with blood evidence, found on a someone near the crime scene...it was all about the not unreasonable presumption/suspicion of guilt, not about fancy evidence and fancy science.

So the case gets solved because Box sees Andrea and the financial planner together and recalls that FP was shot years ago by a pimp. Those two facts inspire him enough to dig up all kinds of info on the FP and he finds video of him near Andrea's home... we have our killer! This was all a little too quick and tidy for my taste.

"we have our killer! " On the contrary, we don't have our killer. Naz had a hung jury, the FP hasn't even gone on trial. We still have Duane Reade and hearse guy out there. The murder was never solved.

R325 You're right that the real killer was not brought to justice, but the show implied heavily that the FP guy was responsible for Andrea's death.

R324, it wasn't that quick. Box never really believed Naz did it. That's what made him look into things further and see the financial advisor with Andrea.

I think we're supposed to believe the financial advisor did it. Unlike the rest of the suspects, he had a real motive, and the strongest evidence that he's the killer.

The whole series turned out to be a red herring salad. I hope HBO gets the same feedback they got for THE SOPRANOS finale.

I thought the finale was incredibly satisfying r329.

But the whole point is no other leads were investigated r324, when Box starts actually investigating outside of Naz he is able to quickly realize that is it very likely the CPA killed Andrea. It wasn't voila, it was him finally being a detective and actually looking into the case. He never did that before, as the prosecution says in their testimony no other suspects were even considered.

I agree with R327. Box was bothered by this case all along. Something in his gut told him Naz didn't do it, but he followed the evidence, which to be fair was pretty damning. When he finally really started to dig, follow his conscience and really investigate the crime, he found the financial planner, Ray Halle, was a prime suspect. I think the show hinted hard that Halle was the real killer, especially when DA Helen Weiss tells Box that she wants to get him. Also the scene where the CTV footage shows Halle throwing something away in the trash AFTER the murder pretty much confirmed Halle was tossing the knife and other incriminating evidence.

It was great to see Jeannie Berlin in this. One of my favorite movies that was shown on TV every now and then in the 1980s as the late, late show was Sheila Levine Is Dead and Living in New York. I loved Jeannie Berlin in that, so it was great to see her get such a good role in The Night Of.

And of course I'm very happy the cat lived. Glad to see Stone couldn't let the cat get killed. As posters upthread noted, the cat represents hope.

The funny thing any evidence you can say about the CPA, the evidence for Naz is more damning. Like the persecution says, we still have more on the kid.

We can't say for sure he did it, or that he would be convicted. But yes, they definitely wanted to give the audience some semblance of closureby having them say they will investigate him.

[quote] The whole series turned out to be a red herring salad. I hope HBO gets the same feedback they got for THE SOPRANOS finale.

Not at all. It was a series about the heavy role of presumption and the way in which evidence and investigation don't always lead to irrefutable conclusion.

Only fucking idiots were angry at the season finale of The Sopranos, dimwits who felt cheated for their time "investment." Did they not enjoy the series for six seasons? Did they have all their hopes and dreams pinned to some different ending of a work of fiction? Or were they so retarded, so spoiled by being hand-fed headlines of how they are to react to a new story that they felt rudderless and ill-equipped to form their own reaction? In any case, they were idiots - not for being disappointed with the ending, but for being wrecked and angry, for feeling owed some sort of "resolution."

I didn't feel cheated at all. It showed the prosecutorial process for exactly what it is: you have a seemingly strong lead, you abandon other leads and build your case on the fact that the jury will find the circumstantial evidence damning enough. The funny fact is that Naz didn't even have a particularly strong defence team of high powered criminal defence attorneys; he basically got off on the fact that there were other viable suspects with strong motives, that the DA didn't bother to look into at all. In the end, he may or may not have done it: all we know is that there were other people who would benefit from Andrea's death and one of them didn't have an alibi for the timeframe they were looking at.

[quote]all we know is that there were other people who would benefit from Andrea's death and one of them didn't have an alibi for the timeframe they were looking at.

None of them did. Naz is incredibly lucky that there were so many people who plausibly could have killed her (including her stepdad who had a ridiculously strong motive) and none of them have a verifiable alibi for the murder window. Even with the massive amount of evidence stacked against him, it was believable to me at least that some members of the jury might not convict him.

Even though most of the series was depressing, there was a small glimmer of hope, not just represented by the cat. It gives you hope that even the most jaded humans (in Box's case about to retire) still want to do the right thing. The Prosecutor chooses not to select another jury, thereby setting someone she now knows is innocent free. Box decides to not take the easy way out. Stone, who is portrayed as a pretty pathetic character, can really tell the difference between a guilty and innocent person because all he deals with are guilty people in his type of lawyering-and he rises to the occasion for the one he sees as innocent. IMO Freddy "let" Nas go. He really wanted and needed Nas with him at Rikers, he could have made sure he stayed there, but he believed Nas was innocent, and thought Nas deserved better than prison.

I see a lot of positive in the finale. Maybe it's just me.

Any word on another season? I'd imagine only Turturro and Jeannie Berlin would return. Maybe the actor who plays Box?

Loved Berlin putting on her sneakers and then eCigging in the bar. I can't decide if she's terrible in this or brilliant.

If there's another season, I can only see it being with a completely different cast and a different case, like "True Detective." Wasn't that the case with the British show it's based on?

Yeah "Criminal Justice" did a second season with a completely new cast of actors and characters.

Also it should be said that John Turturro deserves an emmy for his work on this show. The writing for this show occasionally feel short, but there was some top notch acting that held it together.

I've never been a huge Turturro fan, but he deserves the Emmy next year, and since it's on HBO, he'll probably win. But will he be Lead or Supporting? Will the show be considered a limited series? Guess it depends on what season 2 is.

[quote]Any word on another season?

Does everything have to be another "Friends"? Why keep doing the same thing again and again?

The material has been exhausted, the story resolved. No, there wasn't a 13-minute scene where we fast-forward through the life and death of each character, but all was resolved. To succeed in any way, a second season would have to be a different beast altogether, and even then, no matter how radically different, it would be under the shadow of the "but what happened to..." idiots.

To me it was an ideal series, long enough to develop something really good, to tell a tale in a particular, unhurried way, but not so unhurried as to be stuffed with filler. And you knew from the start that the story marched along toward its end, whatever that would be, a discrete story -- all the milk the cow was going to give. Limited series of 6-, 8-, 10-episodes or some small and finite can succeed in wonderful ways because everyone gives it their best shot knowing it's a one-time thing.

One shot deals can make for some brilliant television. Had this story been partitioned for possible drawing out over two- or three- or eight-seasons, I wonder if it would have been even half so good.

jake gyllenhaal's character from night crawler did this, setting up the perfect crime, out to create the most sensational crime story.

I cried four times during the finale. When Stone took No Name Kittty back to the pound and removed all traces of him/her from his apartment. When Naz was on the stand and finally admitted to himself that he didn't know if he killed Andrea. When Stone tells the jury that he initially walked by Naz at the precinct and then went back to talk to him because there was something different about him that set him apart from all of his other clients. The scent of innocence. And Freddy telling Naz that he cares about him and took him under his wing because he believes he's innocent. Stone, Freddy, Chandra, even Box, though he took the length of a bible to admit it, knew that it is the innocent person who would be naive enough to put his fate in the hands of a "jury of his peers". Actual criminals know better.

I did NOT need to see Chandra stick her hand in her coach to give him drugs. I felt the show shit the bed with that story line. Why would she risk her life and career to do something that stupid?

Also, Naz turned into a prison thug overnight. WTF with the gross prison tattoos like he's some hardened criminal. At least don't put that disgusting shit on your hands and neck. Yeesh. Dummy.

Jesus Christ, calm the fuck down r341. The poster likely meant another season with a whole new crime, following the format of the original British series.

Did the CPA guy do it? Or did the PA and Box just need to find someone--anyone--to pin the crime on so the case could be wrapped up. This follows the theme of injustice.

He did it, R346.

We don't know that r347. There is evidence to indicate he could have (just like there was a ton of evidence to indicate Naz did).

I mean it is safe to assume he probably was the killer, but the show purposely left it open ended. Didn't do some flash back in order to tie up everything in some tidy bow.

The ending was definitely a comment on how the flawed criminal justice system was going to try and railroad someone else like they did Nas.

What was the time frame between the murder and the mistrial? Talking about the tattoos and change in behavior, how long was he in Rikers?

Yeah, they made it seem like he went right to trial. Doesn't work that way. Can take years.

Yeah the show seemed to keep the time frame pretty vague. I assume he was in Rikers for a few months at the minimum, and even that means the justice system rushed into his trial at lightning speed.

Box didn't want this case on his concious when he retired. He knew Naz was probably innocent so he wanted to do the right thing before he left.

And another "yeah" for the cat surviving.

Now us Mr. Robot fans need to know Flipper is OK-but that's another thread.

If Naz had done it, he would have been covered in arterial spray. which would have taken hours to clean off.

I thought Box had a change of heart after Chandra eviscerated him on the stand. He didn't want to go out that way. He knew he fucked up bad and was just phoning it in. He was protecting his legacy.

Chandra made a series of terrible choices - perhaps she would be happier as a bus driver.

Am I mistaken, or was it Freddy who sent the disc? I saw him being given one by the prison guard - or did I miss something?

It's easy to say Box of the prosecutor were railroading an innocent man or had fucked up, because as the audience we are suppose to be sympathetic to Naz and see him as our protagonist.

But the evidence against Naz was overwhelming, anyone in their positions would have done the same thing. Every day people in the criminal justice system are railroaded against with WAY, WAY weaker and more circumstantial cases. That Naz is a free man means he got incredibly lucky.

Yeah, it's annoying that so many of the characters said they could feel or sense his innocence. WTF. Mumbo jumbo. No such thing and being able to divine someone's innocence by the way you feel about them or the energy they give off. Such a lot of crap.

Why did Weiss pause for such a long time and look at the knife while she was questioning a witness (can't recall who)? What was it about the knife that caused her to have an epiphany.

I think she realised that Box was right and he was most likely innocent and that's why she declined when asked for a retrial.

She was getting ready to explain how Naz stabbed her 22 times. I think she was looking at Naz, looking at the knife, and watching Box walk out of the door and seriously question whether she believed that Naz actually had him in it to viciously stab Andrea over 20 times. She was shaken because she realized she wasn't sure she believed that.

Either Freddy sent Box the disc or Freddy had the disc sent to Stone because Freddy believed in Naz's innocence and wanted to he;p him.

"The ending was definitely a comment on how the flawed criminal justice system was going to try and railroad someone else like they did Nas."

Not really. By "railroading" someone else they'd be admitting they were wrong by fingering Naz as the perp. If they are willing to admit they were wrong (something cops and DAs are reluctant to do), they must really believe the financial planner did it.

So Freddy was trying to help Naz by forwarding to DVD to Stone?

Yes. He was hoping the judge would review the DVD and declare a mistrial.

p.s. Riz Ahmed's on Colbert tonight.

THANK YOU R364

For those of you who have watched 'Criminal Justice' - was the ending the same?

That was a nice bit of acting by Paulo Constanzo in the scene at the casino bar when Box asks him what he was thinking, did he really think that he could keep beating up prostitutes without any consequences the way he was doing? "Are you crazy, Ray? Yeah, you are". We can see how he goes from bored and annoyed with Box to someone capable of stabbing a woman 21 times in a murderous rage and it's all in his eyes. The guy scared the shit out of me. Also, it occurred to me that Ray bares more than a passing resemblance to the hat wearing deer.

In case anyone is interested , Riz Ahmed with be on Stephen Colbert's show tonight.

Guess he's promoting the Star Wars film. I can't imagine him promoting "The Night Of", as it ended last night, unless he promoting an upcoming DVD release.

r366, in the original, there is a mistrial, and he goes free; shortly after the real killer is caught and some kind of high-up corruption is involved in covering up the crime. But the Naz character is not an addict, doesn't cut his hair, doesn't get tats. He seems mildly shaken up in a British kind of way. At least that's what I remember!

Not quite.

In Criminal Justice the protagonist is found guilty. His lawyer (the Stone) character convinces him to file for mistrial because of the inappropriate physical relationship he had with the Chandra character. He does, ruining her career.

It later comes out that there is footage of the murderer stalking the victim, Basically the idea is the Andrea character had witnessed a murder, and he was following her as she got into the cab.

The Naz character does do a lot of drugs while he is in prison though.

There is a cover up because the Box character knew about the footage of the guy stalking the Andrea character and purposely hid it. It is the Chandra character that finds out about it. Adding to the Naz characters guilt that he ruined her life (for what ended up being no reason) while she did everything to save his.

Yes R354, it REALLY bothered me that that never came up. The crime scene was a disaster and all he had was a little blood on his hand? Come on. He would never have been that clean, even if he'd showered and cleaned himself up. It signified to me the kind of plot sloppiness that would occur all throughout the series. It had some great scenes with some good actors, but overall just didn't quite work, and definitely fell apart in the finale.

I'd like to think that Freddy is just taking advantage of Nas but in the end it seems that he genuinely cares for Nas...?

I thought she was pretty terrific R337. The total NY lady. The shoe change was perfect. The scene between her and Chip Zien was by far the most memorable of the series.

Except for the fact that Naz was now involved in a pretty heavy and possibly life ending addiction R336. That last scene with him was very sad.

So, Emmy nods next year for Turturro, Camp, Berlin, maybe Glenne Headly, Michael K. White and Riz? I would like to see Peyman Moaadi get nominated. He played Naz' father and gave some of the best line readings of any actor on the show. And that is saying a lot because there were many standouts in the cast.

[quote]I'd like to think that Freddy is just taking advantage of Nas but in the end it seems that he genuinely cares for Nas...?

Freddy definitely genuinely cared about him, they made that clear with him sending the DVD of the kiss to try to get him released.

At the end, when the financial advisor crosses the street and passes the car Box is sitting in, Box gets out of the car and puts his hand in his pocket. He's not a cop anymore, so he's not going to follow and arrest him. When Weiss said to Box in the bar, "Let's go get him", I don't think she meant "Go arrest him". She wants him gone so she won't be publicly embarrassed by another trial. It would admit her own incompetence.

Did any of you bitches know that Riz Ahmed is British? ! Just saw him on The Colbert show and I'm floored.

I doubt that, r377. They have worked almost their entire adult lives in law enforcement and the criminal justice system and they know you win some and lose some. They may be jaded but they are not vigilantes. Plus, they have quite a bit of circumstantial evidence on him and surveillance tape that places him at the scene of the crime at the time of the murder and of him discarding a garbage bag in front of a random house He had motive and opportunity and no alibi. Perhaps they want to catch him in the act. Box could like him for the stabbing murder of the young black woman which he thought was similar to the Cornish murder. And maybe some others. Ray likes beating up hookers. Maybe he's acquired a taste for murder too.

I posted about the Colbert appearance up-thread. I've always known he was British. Over the years, I've seen many of his UK films and TV series. His past work is worth checking out.

I'm not feeling the much thinner Riz, I prefer the hunkier 'Prisonized Naz' look, he seems to lose or gain weight according to his characters.. He's gorgeous either way. He's adorable, charming and super smart. He went to Oxford.

As a friend always says, "I wouldn't throw him out of bed!" True.

Should have kept the Naz bod.

Ruiz Ahmed is the breakout star if this show; his transformation from innocent Naz to hardened criminal/drug addict Naz was brilliant

I remember seeing him in Nightwalker as the unfortunate co-worker of Gylenhaals. He gave heartbreaking performance there too.

Yep r382, he was great in Nightcrawler as well (which was also just a great movie).

[quote]he seems to lose or gain weight according to his characters

He is a thin guy, always has been. He gained muscle for the hardened criminal look but of course he isn't going to keep putting in all the work. Most actors don't if they don't need it for a role.

I still want to know why the courtroom was so empty for such a high profile trial.

Honestly? I thought Camp was the break out star. I had never seen him anything before The Nigt Of. Now I really wish I had seen him in The Crucible on Broadway.

I recognized Bill Camp's face in TNO; knew I'd seen him somewhere before but nothing stood out. Then yesterday I watch the film "Love and Mercy" on Amazon Price, and there's Camp playing the father of young Brian Wilson of The Beach Boys.

I would NOT recommend that movie unless you are hardcore Beach Boy fan. If you are a Camp fan, he's only in it for a few minutes and he plays a creep.

I cannot decide if it was the writing or the performance, but the only actor I thought wasn't terrific was the one who played the female defense attorney. Her performance just seemed to involve bugging her eyes out like a deer in headlights.

I assumed Box would go to work as an investigator for the DA. It's not an uncommon job for retired cops. It doesn't have the physical requirements that cops have.

Retired cops also work security for private firms too. And I don't mean rent-a-cop type stuff.

Yeah, I had mixed feelings about Chandra and the actress who played her. In the beginning I absolutely bought into the character, and her portrayal, as an inexperienced young lawyer who is probably doing boring legal research and writing simple legal briefs. Basically a glorified paralegal. Just one among many at that law firm. And then she's plucked from obscurity by the Dragon Lady but her only value to Crowe is her ethnicity, and her appearance, and how that will play to Naz' parents. And I liked that she was honest with Naz. Telling him that she was sent in there to talk some sense into him but if he didn't kill Andrea then don't take the deal. It established trust and the beginning of an emotional connection between them. And she had some really effective moments in the courtroom establishing reasonable doubt and picking apart the prosecution's case. But then the kiss, and buying the drugs, and smuggling them into the courthouse just seemed so improbable. She couldn't pull off that 360 turn her character took towards the end and it made her look amateurish and ineffective in the role. Shame, really. I'd like to see her in something else to be fair.

I could handle the kiss but having her smuggle in drugs for him was too far. I think everyone rolled their eyes at that, poor and unnecessary writing choice.

In terms of the actress, she did fine. She wasn't as great like some of the rest of the cast were, but she was able to hold her own.

James Gandolfini was supposed to play Stone and even shot a pilot before he died. I loved Tuturro's take on the character, but it also would have been fascinating to see Gandolfini's take on Stone.

Great series, great writing, great acting. And I want to marry Riz.

For the poster who was asking, someone on Reddit tracked it and according to the shows timeline Naz was at Riker's about 3.5 months.

R389 I know DA investigator isn't the only job Box could get. It was an ADA who said "I've got a job for you, let's get him". I guessed she was offering him something through her office as opposed to suggesting they become vigilantes.

I was impressed by this limited series. HBO, you did good.

I agree with R388 and R395 - the DA was offering Box a job as a DA's investigator and assigns him to "get" (investigate more fully) the financial advisor.

great writing, great acting, kudos to HBO for this show

Yea KITTY!!!!!!!!!!!

[quote]But then the kiss, and buying the drugs, and smuggling them into the courthouse just seemed so improbable. She couldn't pull off that 360 turn her character took towards the end and it made her look amateurish and ineffective in the role. Shame, really. I'd like to see her in something else to be fair.

This ruined it for me. And some other ridiculously sloppy plot holes, like the fact that Riz wasn't covered in blood and he morphed from college nerd to prison thug at warp speed. Just stupid.

I think that Chandra was supposed to be a naive and ineffective person as well as a shit lawyer (in comparison to Turturro's character, so in that sense, she was cast ok. Still didn't like her.

There was no chemistry between Chandra and Naz. On the other hand he and Andrea were kindred spirits and he was very attracted to her. That is why the final scene at the river was so poignant. She was the one person who would have been able to relate to what a shit storm his life has become. He only knew her for one night, and it turned out to be the worst night of his life, and yet he missed her. That is so fucking sad.

Glad you didn't post that this morning, R400. It would have ruined my day. True though.

"He is a thin guy, always has been. He gained muscle for the hardened criminal look but of course he isn't going to keep putting in all the work. Most actors don't if they don't need it for a role."

TNO was a long shoot, 8 months, more than enough time to build muscle. The pilot was shot in 2012, then put on hold when Gandolfini died. Riz was much thinner in the pilot, which was technically part of Episode One. Gandolfini's scenes were re-shot with Turturro.

Sure, Riz is a naturally thin guy, yet from seeing most of his films and TV series, he has looked different in most of his roles, especially if he has nude or love scenes, especially films where he has to show his torso. He's even had a belly in a few roles!

He put on weight for "Trishna" and for "The Reluctant Fundamentalist". While he wasn't as pumped up as 'Prison Naz', it was very apparent he looked much different in these films. Riz wasn't super thin for "Britz" either.

Jeannie Berlin was mesmerizing!

I'd watch a show all about Stone!

It got lost in the storytelling that this whole magillah got rolling because Naz was thinking with his dick. As soon as Andrea got in the car, he was hoping/wishing that his beautiful woman would have sex with him and he was led by his junk into a strange woman's apartment.

[quote]It got lost in the storytelling that this whole magillah got rolling because Naz was thinking with his dick. As soon as Andrea got in the car, he was hoping/wishing that his beautiful woman would have sex with him and he was led by his junk into a strange woman's apartment.

How was it lost in the storytelling? Everyone realizes he let her stay because he thought she was hot. The prosecutor completely calls him out about that when she cross examines him.

I'm not pinning my hopes on an Emmy love for the series next year. Show Me A Hero aired around the same time last year, didn't it? Oscar Isaac put in an even more amazing performance than Turturro and he was completely shut out.

Naz reminded me a lot of a young Andy Garcia.

I think the character of Petey was partially based on a true story of a sixteen year old who spent 3 years at Rikers for stealing a backpack and wound up killing himself. The show didn't come close to showing what a hellish hole Rikers is and how the teenaged prisoners in particular are singled out for systemic brutality by the guards so you can imagine what they go through within the gen pop.

Funny that someone mentioned that Riz looked like a young Andy Garcia. When he appeared on Stephen Colbert's show this week, Riz mentioned that while in the States many people started talking to him in Spanish.

He has an interesting look, he can surely portray other nationalities, Hispanic roles as well as Italian. Hope he doesn't continue to only take Pakistani or Indian roles. Can't see him as a Bob Smith, though.

r410 there is no way in hell he could pass for Italian.

Sure Riz can pass for Italian, a cousin who is actually Italian and Irish, but has an olive complexion, looks EXACTLY like Prison Naz. My cousin recently shaved his head, his friends have been joking about the reesmblance since the show aired.

You need to check out more photos of Riz online, he looks so different in so many photos. btw, he needs eyeglasses, he wears contacts, which explains the squinting in so many photos. Many critics have talked about Riz' chameleon quality, he can definitely portray other nationalities.

"There was no chemistry between Chandra and Naz. On the other hand he and Andrea were kindred spirits and he was very attracted to her. That is why the final scene at the river was so poignant. She was the one person who would have been able to relate to what a shit storm his life has become. He only knew her for one night, and it turned out to be the worst night of his life, and yet he missed her. That is so fucking sad."

The kiss between Chandra and Naz, was about comfort, with maybe a little lust. Naz was lonely, numbing himself with heroin at Rikers. He hadn't seen his parents, his mother thought he did kill Andrea. Chandra had split with her boyfriend. Naz was horny. Anything else?

It did not appear Naz had prison sex. When he first used the cell Freddy have him, he called Chandra, it seemed as if he was going to masturbate while talking to her, that didn't happen, yet he did feel some type of sexual connection with Chandra. He trusted her, again, he was alone.

Naz was mixed up, the last woman he had sex with was murdered. The kiss with Chanda was filled with a lot of mixed emotions. Or Naz simply kissed Chandra because he knew it was wrong and would lead to a mistrial. Rikers had definitely changed Naz outlook on many things, especially his survival.

Andrea created her own problems, no one told this 'poor little rich girl' to take hard core drugs, drink like a fish, lead a useless life and have some shady 'financial advisor' manage her million plus estate, Andrea was messed up. Period.

Much like Naz created his own problems, like taking his dad's cab which set the stage for the 'shit storm' his life became. IMO, these situations didn't make them kindred spirits at all. Andrea and Naz were nothing more than two dumb young people, from extremely different backgrounds, who created their own problems. Naz was mesmerized that Andrea lived in that brownstone, she shugged it off as, "It's OK."

Sure, Naz was attracted to Andrea, she was an attractive and an available woman, a dangerous type he had probably never encountered before.

His original plans for the evening were to meet some hot chicks at the basketball player's ex-girlfriend's Stanton Street party. Naz thought Andrea was attracted to him, he moved forward with the situation. Their night together did not make them kindred spirits, Naz "liked her" as much as anyone could like someone they've spent a very hours with. In the end, it was very bad luck and bad timing for both of them.

[quote]Sure Riz can pass for Italian

Actual Italians will disagree with you. He's a very handsome guy, but Italian-looking he is not.

We never got a glimpse at Riz's ass, did we?

No we didn't see his ass, unfortunately. I was hoping we would in the prison shower scenes. I can't believe he's in his mid-30s, he could pass for early 20s.

It was unfortunate we didn't see it in a shower scene, but damn, boy had a plump booty. He is gorgeous in that picture, R414.

"Actual Italians will disagree with you. He's a very handsome guy, but Italian-looking he is not."

Of course, you would find the most un-Italian, most Pakistani looking photo of Riz. Ha-ha.

You need to Google or rather Deep Google some more photos. Riz can, and does, look very different in many of his films and TV series. He was gorgeous in "Trishna", he didn't have that beard, he was heavier and his hair was a bit longer. I prefer when he has a less polished look.

He looked like a kid on Colbert's show. I wasn't feeling the short hair with the thin body, the short hair looked much better on Prison Naz with the muscles and the swagger.

The problem with the trannie prosecutor is that they are always convinced that their version of events is right, no matter what other evidence comes to light.

A perfect real life example is the central park five-- five black guys convicted of brutally raping a white woman. Even when evidence of their complete innocence came to light and the real rapist found, there prosecutor publicly stated that she still believed that were involved somehow and get explanation was ludicrous.

I was afraid the judge would see the video of Chandra giving Naz drugs from her pussy

Here's some interesting interviews with many of the performers from TNO. They're all linked on one page.

Riz kept up the New York accent for the full EIGHT months of the shoot! Amazing. He also mentioned that on Colbert. When the shoot ended, he then started talking with his usual Brit accent, some people who were working behind-the-scenes asked him, "Who the hell are you?"

Amara Karan (Chandra) shot for six of the eight months: "I would do my American accent in a scene, but Riz kept his accent for the entire shoot, so when I first arrived on set, he was in the American accent in the makeup trailer, and I was like, “OK, right. This is your process.” I loved it. It’s good, because it brings you into relating to someone that you’re very familiar with in a different way, because it does put you in a different relationship with the person. That was actually a good call on his part, apart from the fact that he’s just bloody brilliant to work with, and he’s so good."

Amara knew Riz from Oxford, but they had never worked together before.

It's been a long time since I've been this excited by any actor, or actress, Riz is the real deal, he's truly committed to his craft. As well as apparently being decent human being and all around great person, you don't find many of those types of people in showbusiness. John Turturro had nothing but great things to say about Riz.

Whoa! Mind blown R416 -- you are 100% right. Would never have put Riz at 33. 26 or 27 tops.

OTOH, many successful actors look younger than they are, which is how they first get roles, playing 17 when they are 24, etc.

[quote] He only knew her for one night, and it turned out to be the worst night of his life, and yet he missed her. That is so fucking sad.

I didn't get that at all. Him going to the place they hung out before the murder was more cathartic than anything. I don't think she crossed his mind once since it happened. For me, the scene between the DA and the coroner was the most effective and well acted. It actually gave me chills how nonchalant she was with making the evidence fit her agenda. It's like..did she ever go into law to help people and when did she get so twisted? If you don't have a decent attorney, you are FUCKED. I've never seen that kind of scene done so well. No emotion, no nefarious background music, it was as if she was ordering coffee.

Love the way half the finale was literally filmed through or via opaque surfaces; frosted windows, smudged mirrors, those weird plastic strips that hung in the door of that dumpling place. Not subtle, exactly, but well conceived.

[quote]Styler! UGH! How many favors did that bitch have to call in to get on this show?

[bold]That's[/bold] who she was! I recognized her, couldn't place how, and didn't read the ending credits. She looked and sounded like she had had a minor stroke – compliments of cosmetic surgery.

[quote]The writing for this show occasionally feel short, but there was some top notch acting that held it together.

Agreed. The writing and editing took a change for the worse from episode 5 forward, yet the strong performances helped to counter that.

[quote] Also, Naz turned into a prison thug overnight. WTF with the gross prison tattoos like he's some hardened criminal. At least don't put that disgusting shit on your hands and neck. Yeesh. Dummy.

Yes, it made perfect sense. Naz was desperate to fit in with a peer group that he thought was 'cool.' That's how the story started, that's why he took his father's cab. So his hasty transition into a thug in prison was consistent with the character and true-to-life.

Jessica Chastain and Elizabeth Banks had a melt down on Twitter because of the finale.

Do you agree with them?

I couldn't get past Nas's resemblance to Chris Kattan.

[quote] Jessica Chastain and Elizabeth Banks had a melt down on Twitter because of the finale.

[quote] Do you agree with them?

Hell no, I don't agree with them, no more than I agree with the babies who watched The Sopranos for six fucking seasons and then had a nuclear meltdown because it didn't end exactly the way they would have preferred, or because some idiot came unhinged over the resolution of "Gone Girl." Are people so fucking spoiled that they think they can demand the storybook resolution of their choice for works of fiction in which their only hand is as an audience member? It's a world of unhinged pussies.

Chastain and Banks need to understand that what they do is not real life. It's the movies, TV, NOT REAL. It's a story. It's what us commoners watch to get away from the drudgery of our real lives.

"I couldn't get past Nas's resemblance to Chris Kattan."

That's hilarious, maybe in that photo, but not in real life, Kattan looks nothing like Riz Ahmed. Riz is a gorgeous man, he has beautiful expressive soulful eyes, great bone structure and sensuous perfect lips. In real life, he is a bit too thin, but very handsome nonetheless. Few would call Chris Kattan handsome.

Riz is a chameleon on the screen, an actor who has already played everything from romantic leads to drug dealers as well as comedic roles. This HBO series brought a little known UK actor, Riz, to the attention of many. I've seen most of his UK films and TV series, many viewers recently discovered Riz through "TNO". Stephen Colbert stated he didn't even know Riz was British!

Over the next few months, Riz has three films coming out, films which will likely garner him more fans. In these films, he will be doing yet other different accents/dialects, something he seems to be a master of. He will also be directing a TV series in the UK.

I predict we'll be seeing a lot more of this amazing British actor. If only for that aspect alone, bringing Riz to the attention of a much broader audience, hopefully an audience which truely cares more about talent and ability, over discovering the 'next big movie star', The Night Of" has done it's job remarkably well. We now have a very talented, as well as gorgeous, new actor to follow, one who can actually act.

We already have way too many plastic 'movie stars' crapping out tedious movies year after year, I prefer actors and actresses who know their craft. performers who make me feel something. Hopefully, Riz will stay true to his roots and continue to make diverse and thought provoking films and TV series.

I was surprised that Naz's parents didn't have a harsh reaction to the neck tattoo.

Though maybe by then they were so fucked up with their own shit and so depressed they hardly noticed

Re the neck tattoo, Naz' parents were fighting for their own survival. They came across as hard working, thoughtful and intelligent parents who sacrificed much for their older son. The Khan family lost their home because of Naz' night of recklessness and irresponsibility.

Naz' neck tattoo was least of his own problems, he left Rikers with a heroin addiction. Naz was no longer in college, was shunned by his community, lost his friends and his own mother even doubted his innocence. Naz has a rough road ahead.

Tattoos can be removed. Naz cannot take back what happened to him.

The anger at Chandra sneaking in drugs was pretty universal. Many posters here hated it, Reddit hated it, social media hated it. It was incredibly dumb and didn't even lead anywhere or have a purpose. Obviously those actresses were in the right.

Surprised there were two posters here who defended it.

Actually R435, Chandra smuggling in the Methadrone tablets to Naz DID have a purpose. You weren't paying attention and neither were the complaining actresses. They should just go back to worrying about their own next projects!

When Chandra asked Naz to take the stand at his trial, Naz asked her to "help" him. Initially, Chandra thought Naz meant that he needed to be coached about the questions etc, then Naz motioned to his clenched hands. Through Naz' obvious body language, Chandra understood: Naz would be unable to take the stand if he was going through heroin withdrawal. Yes, he needed help and she needed to find a way to get him some Methadone.

Petey, whose mom was smuggling drugs into Rikers in her vagina, the heroin in condoms which Naz swallowed, had killed himself because he was being sexually abused by Victor, the inmate Freddie ended up killing. Because of Petey's suicide, the drug smuggling was curtailed. At that point, Naz was thoroughly addicted to heroin, it was obvious he was going through withdrawal symptoms, without the Methadone tablets, Naz could not take the stand at his trial. How did anyone miss that?

In Rikers, Naz became addicted to smoking heroin, not crack as so many reviewers and viewers assumed. I can't count the times people stated that Naz was addicted to crack, it was downright laughable.

Others went on about the absurdity of someone like Chandra, a businesswoman in a suit, tracking down the drugs for Naz, the scene wasn't absurd at all: there are many people who wear business suits and who have serious drug habits and, yes, they sometimes meet their dealers after work, this scene was not an anomaly at all.

Chandra bought the Methadone tablets from a man who walked out of a drug rehab clinic.

Many need to watch that scene again, the word 'clinic' is clearly etched into the wall above the doorway where the man exits onto the street. As Chandra looks across the street, we can clearly see the dealer walked out of a clinic, this was quite easy to notice. I saw the word 'clinic' clearly and immediately.

Freddy likely arranged the Methadone sale for Chandra. Freddie, though still an inmate at Rikers, had many connections in and out of jail.

A lot of viewers clearly missed many important plot points in this series, in turn, not paying 100% attention caused many to misinterprete exactly the 'why', 'what' and 'who' aspects of this series.

Too many viewers ended up blaming the 'bad' writing, when, in many instances, they were simply not paying attention, which caused them to misinterpret many scenes or blame the 'bad' writing.

R436 is The Night of" writer

Um, no r437. I'm not R436, and I watched TNO while folding laundry most of the time, and STILL caught all the points he brought up. It was pretty obvious to me that Naz was tellling her he needed help in the form of drugs. Also obvious he had no way of getting the drugs because Petey was dead.

The series calls for her to do something stupid, what would you have wanted her to do? Get a DUI? The writers get to decide what Chandra does, not you.

I don't get people who don't just accept things the way they were written. Because it's not real. No one is re-writing real life.

R438 and I don't understand why some people don't question anything and accept mediocrity with an excuse "it's not real" and make justification for bad writing.

I was never really convinced that Chandra believed Naz was innocent. And that was the fault of the actress who played her. I like Amara Karan but there were a few times when I thought that she wasn't sure how to play a particular scene, and the director wasn't much help, so she made some poor choices as an actress. Other than that, I loved this show. Was obsessed with it actually. In recent days I have watched Oh, Brother, The Big Lebowsky, and Quiz Show. Turturro is one of our finest character actors. I'm looking forward to seeing what he does next.

Freddy likely arranged the Methadone sale for Chandra. Freddie, though still an inmate at Rikers, had many connections in and out of jail.

*snort* Then why didn't the magical, all powerful Freddie, who seemed to be able do anything, procure anything, just give Naz the heroin he needed. Why endanger his attorney? Stupid.

And why on God's earth would an ambitious lawyer, a woman of reasonable intelligence, risk throwing her life away by taking such a huge risk. It's just not believable, sorry. The worst part was when she was digging around in her vag for drugs. I laughed out loud. How fucking cartoonish. Never mind the ick factor, there is no way a lawyer wouldn't know there could be six cameras on them.

^first sentence should have been in quotes, from the finger wagging know-it-all @ R436.

[quote]first sentence should have been in quotes, from the finger wagging know-it-all @ [R436].

Isn't he the worst? Can you imagine watching anything with that guy?

If Freddie asked Naz to have Chandra bring in the drugs, he would not have look surprised when he saw the video the guard played for him.

It's amazing that the whole "I'll give you protection" stuff was only about getting drugs for Freddie to use

R436, were all the viewers taking a bathroom break when Naz was covered in blood after the massacre? Did we blink and miss him showering 3x and scrubbing his clothes and shoes, scouring his fingernails, hair, nostrils an ear canals? Because that's where all that blood would have ended up if he was the killer.

I thought there were two cases of miscasting in this:

Paul Sparks has a sort of goofy face but is still quite sexy. However he looks as much like a personal trainer as my Aunt Ida. And this guy supposedly worked at Equinox before getting fired for sexually harrassing customers.

The actor who played the desk sergeant in the first and second episodes was just that-an actor playing a desk sergeant. I like the actor but he's really only believable in roles where his character wears suits. He was very good in Angels in America as Louis.

Ben Shenkman is the name of the actor playing the desk sergeant, by the way.

Here's a beautifully written bit of reflection by Riz Ahmed himself:

R446, exactly. Big pothole. Why was that ignored? I mean, there was blood splattered on the walls, come on!

[quote]Paul Sparks has a sort of goofy face but is still quite sexy. However he looks as much like a personal trainer as my Aunt Ida. And this guy supposedly worked at Equinox before getting fired for sexually harassing customer

This x 1000. I'd like to know who this very average looking milquetoast actor is fucking, because he also got a plum role in House of Cards as the author/biographer who got to bone Claire Underwood (the FLOTUS). Yeah, THAT'S believable.

Paul Sparks is married to the actress Annie Parrisse but I wouldn't be surprised if he pulled out his big schlong to get roles.

I'm glad that I am not the only one who is totally immune to Sparks' charm as an actor. He is the epitome of blonde and bland. I rewatched the first four episodes waiting for the Emmys to start. A much better way to kill time than watching all of those banal Red Carpet interviews. When Naz was asleep at the kitchen table the thing that woke him up was the sound of a motorcycle outside the brownstone. In the rehab file that Stone paid for, and offered to Chandra, the top page contained a photo copy of Andrea's driver's license and there was a motorcycle tag on the license. And of course, someone riding a motorcycle pulled up to Naz at the traffic light when he was making his getaway from the crime scene and made a point to look at Naz. Twice. Based on the height and slim build of the MC rider it definitely could have been the financial planner making his getaway.

Good theory, R453.

"If Freddie asked Naz to have Chandra bring in the drugs, he would not have look surprised when he saw the video the guard played for him."

Freddy was surprised because the KISS between Chandra and Naz was on the CD. The KIss had nothing to do with the drug smuggling.

For the others stating Freddy could have easily given Naz heroin for his withdrawal symptoms, rather than show Chandra procuring the Methdone tablets, I guess many here forgot that the heroin smuggling situation came to an abrupt halt when Petey killed himself after being continually molested by Victor, the inmate Freddy killed..

Later, IIRC, it was during the last episode, Naz spoke to a new inmate and asked if he was married, I guess that new inmate was going to be Freddy's new heroin smuggler. The guy would get his mom to smuggle in the drugs the way Petey's mom did.

I thought the kiss was how she smuggled him the drugs. Mouth to Mouth.

I really do wonder if people gave their full attention to the show. Sure there were lots of plot holes and unnecessary red herrings, but so many important scenes were missed.

Most of the drugs were smuggled into Rikers through the female visitors vaginas. Petey's mom took the heroin filled condoms out of her vagina, then gave them to Petey who them passed them to Naz. Naz swallowed them. During his first visit with Naz at Rikers, Stone noticed what was going on, he told Naz, even if he was acquitted of killing Andrea, he could end up in jail for smuggling those drugs.

Chandra smuggled in a condom of Methdone tablets, not heroin. During the time of his trial, Naz was going through heroin withdrawal, he told Chandra he needed 'help' to get through the trial.

When Chandra brought in the Methadone, she took one pill out of her bra, so Naz could take one immediately because he was feeling awful. Then, Chandra took the condom of Methadone pills out of her vagina and put them on the bench, Naz then put that bag of pills up his ass. How did so many viewers miss this as well as so many other crucial scenes?!

Uhhhhh, no, R456.

Recently, Riz wrote an excellent article about being labeled a 'terrorist' at a UK airport, this incident occurred after coming back from a German film festival. He was detained and abused, he was shackled to a desk. The excerpt is included in a current book. He comes across as politically aware, which is a very good thing. Now if he can keep away from models and the other trappings of showbiz nonsense, he'll be fine.

Besides being an excellent actor and a very handsome man, he's clearly extremely intelligent. He's a triple threat in showbiz: talent, brains and extremely good looks.

Riz also raps, I can't say I know much about his music, his music videos I watched at YouTube seemed to contain lyrics written from the perspective of a teenage boy being dissed by females, perhaps these vids were a parody of rap?

His lyrics came across as rather silly, especially coming from a well educated (Oxford) man who is 33 years old. Some lyrics were in the political realm, but most were boy versus girl nonsense. His upcoming gig, in Brooklyn, with his band Swet Shop Boys, is already sold out. I'm sure many new fans are due to his appearance in TNO.

Riz is a very refreshing change from the usual parade of airhead actors and actresses the US produces. I hope he has a long career. He comes across as being extremely interesting both on and off the screen. Despite the series flaws, TNO has made viewers aware of this fantastic and compelling actor.

The link to his excellent piece of writing has been posted upthread, R459.

Thanks R460, I read the article about Riz detainment the day he posted it on his Twitter feed, he linked The Guardian article. It's all over the internet. There's also great photo of him at the Guardian link, it's kind of a mock up of passport photo. He's a breathtaking man.

Riz is such a chameleon, he always looks so different, in his roles as well as in photos. A few weeks ago, by accident, I happened to catch his appearance on "Good Morning America", he revealed his Rogue One Star Wars doll, I was on the other side of the room, I intially thought it was Paul Reubens! With his shown hair, skinny body and clean shaven face, Riz looked so much like Pee Wee Herman, it was hilarious. He was almost unrecognizable, he was the complete opposite of 'prison Naz'. You have to wonder what his normal look is.

Someone upthread mentioned Riz looked like Chris Kattan, I don't see it at all. The actor Gael Bernal Garcia actually looks a lot like Chris Kattan.

[quote] Loved Berlin putting on her sneakers and then eCigging in the bar. I can't decide if she's terrible in this or brilliant.

OMG. I am watching Elaine May (Berlin's mother) in the new Woody Allen Amazon series and she and her daughter sound EXACTLY alike!

I was shocked to read that Jeanie Berlin is 66, she looked about 80 in TNO! There had to be reason why she left showbusiness for so many years, was she ill? She certainly looked it.

Also quite shocking was finding out that Bill Camp, who played Box, is only 45! That's the oldest looking 45 year old I've ever seen! He has a face full of wrinkles. Camp is actually around the same age as the performers who played Naz' parents! They, in turn, are about 10 years older than Riz Ahmed, he's 33.

Anyone know if "The Night Of" will be available to purchase on DVD? I'd like to add the series to Christmas gifts for friends who are fans of Turturro and Riz Ahmed.

Ooh, this poor successful actor is SUCH A VICTIM! Waaaaah! He was interviewed in airports! WAAAAAH! He's so badly treated compared to immigrants who came through Ellis island.

Here's a thought. He can always travel to Pakistan to act on TV and in movies there instead of in the U.S.

But he won't make nearly as much money, nor would any snark about the government or about perceived social prejudices be tolerated there, like they are tolerated in the U.S. And in the UK.

Stfu, 465.

"Ooh, this poor successful actor is SUCH A VICTIM! Waaaaah! He was interviewed in airports! WAAAAAH! He's so badly treated compared to immigrants who came through Ellis island."

WTF? You sound like a uninformed bloody moron. Riz Ahmed was born in the UK, his parents are Pakistani. They've lived in the UK over 40 years! I'd reckon they've pretty much assimilated at this point.

Riz was not "interviewed" in airports, Riz Ahmed was profiled, harassed, then shackled and injured, in the country of his birth, Great Britain. Once again, Riz is of Pakistani descent, but was born in Great Britain. His parents are also part Indian.

This actor was questioned, then shacked, at a UK airport after coming back from a German film festival.

The moronic airport agents asked him if he became an actor to further his political agenda! Would any American actor be asked such a thing and subjected to being shackled? The agents seemed like the sort of brain dead morons who would vote for Trump.

During one of Riz Ahmed's trips to NY, for work, he was once again detained. Sounds like uncalled for profiling to me.

With Trump now president, Riz should be prepared for more 'profiling'!

He bitched about the American airport too

Plus he insulted all the airport workers in the U.S who were just doing their jobs. They didn't "profile" him. They questioned him as they question all work visa foreigners about their plans.

"They didn't "profile" him. They questioned him as they question all work visa foreigners about their plans."

Actually, Riz was detained for about THREE hours when he arrived in NY. That's constitutes more than a brief questioning session at an airport. I assume most of the responders here are white and not Muslim or any targeted nationality?

Oh the other hand, this actor seems to be using his airport situations as well as the fact that he's of a Muslim of Pakistani descent, as a form of branding. In nearly every interview he's given over the past few years he always mentions his difficulties because of the "skin" he was "born in".

Riz is talented, intelligent and handsome, but enough already. As a biracial gay man, I've had difficulties most of my life. Talk about not knowing where you below, I've experienced that too.

R465, اپنے آپ کو بھاڑ میں جاؤ!

Will there be a second series, with John Turturro's character Stone dealing with another case? I recall some performers being interested in continuing the series.

Lightening doesn't always strike twice with a second series being as successful, case in point, the second "True Detective" was awful, it really sucked, I'm sure with a great script and Turturro's always excellent acting, a second series could be as successful as The Night Of.

I just started it tonight.

R474, WTF just started tonight? There won't be a second series of "The Night Of", even with a different story line, nothing has been announced. Perhaps if the other crap fest series on HBO fail, they might consider it. At least "Girls" was finally cancelled, talk about a terrible series.

"Westworld" is awful. "Divorce" isn't much, it's not bad but it's not great or compelling TV. SJP is whining as usual, man, is she one note. It's yet another series about upper middle class suburban white people and their dramas about divorce, money etc. Jermaine Clement has a small role, I was hoping to see more of him, he's entertaining.

"Insecure" is pretty good, unfortunately, it's yet another series about male/female relationships and 'drama'. HBO needs a truly original premise for a TV series, that's what made TNO so great. At least "Curb" is coming back!

Just watched this and fell in love with both the show and Riz. Can anyone recommend their favorite Richard Price book?

This series has inspired me to check out RA's other credits. THE RELUCTANT FUNDAMENTALIST is available on Nerflix for our streaming pleasure. He's wonderful in that, too (although the movie suffers from the presence of Kate Hudson).

If you enjoyed The Night Of, check out the book Lush Life by Richard Price, who cowrote the show and also wrote for The Wire. It's as good as The Night Of.

BUMP

I'm watching Season 1 of the BBC's [italic]Criminal Justice[/italic] on YouTube. Way less violent than [italic]The Night Of[/italic] but still very suspenseful. Poor waifish Ben Whishaw would have been somebody's ladyboy by now in [italic]The Night Of.[/italic]

A South Korean version called [italic]That Night[/italic] is also scheduled for later this year.