How do seemingly intelligent people fall MLM schemes?

What's so bad about Pampered Chef?

The same reason some seemingly intelligent people are religious.

Because they know others who've gotten rich from them? Without thinking about it for more than a couple of minutes, I know 5 people who've made money from MLMs although that doesn't mean I'll ever get on board.

What's an MLM? I've heard of MGM and MTM and MOM.

Nearly all advertising is about solving a problem.

MLMs sell themselves. Their product is money. Consumers want more money. For many, their main problem in life is money. MLM's sell the idea that they can solve that problem.

Nearly all weight loss products do the same thing. "Do you have extra weight you'd like to lose? Pay us money and your problem will go away." What you are exchanging your money for in goods and/or services is irrelevant. In that transaction, our brains think we are exchanging money to take away weight. That's why so many diet products are marketed around food. It solves two problems at once. "Eat as much as you want and lose weight!" solves one problem--the idea that we restrict ourselves because we want to lose weight and the weight loss itself is the second. The fact anyone who promises that is a scam artist liar is secondary.

The only people who ever succeed at this shit are sociopaths. They sucker friends into selling shoddy shit at best, snake oil at worst.

There's not much more infuriating than answering a social invite and arriving to a fucking sales pitch. So tacky and shameless.

Well there seems to to be some sociopaths on soaps r6 and are using their status to dupe and deceive fans without a care what happens them.

Quoting: "Multi-level marketing (MLM) is a marketing strategy in which the sales force is compensated not only for sales they generate, but also for the sales of the other salespeople that they recruit. This recruited sales force is referred to as the participant's "downline", and can provide multiple levels of compensation."

Think something like Amway. The sales people get paid not just for the sales they make but for recruiting others to be sales people. A portion of your sales goes to the person who recruited you and on up the chain. Get in early and you can make some serious money. Get in late, as the overwhelming majority do, and you get jack shit.

They are almost all scams.

It's the depressing job market and dead economy that drives people to this. I admit I was thisclose to falling for MLM marketing career offers in the past.

My friend in MLM said it isn't anymore of a scam than the way CEO's make out like bandits compared to middle management and entry level employees who get paid like paupers. He said you can at least make serious money as a salesperson.

They all say that, R10. If part of the deal is that your friend gets money for every person they recruit and that part of your sales goes to him or her, then it's a scam. If they're actively telling you to recruit your friends, co-workers, family, etc., then it's a scam.

If the merchandise is good, if you're a natural salesperson, if you can handle a ton of rejection and your friends and family not wanting to be around you because they're tired of being hassled, then go for it.

Some of these MLM'S have also added pseudo religious cult like elements to where the salespeople treat the scamming company head like some religious prophet out to save the world.

Strongly recommend you subscribe to the linked lawyer's series of free emails evaluating the latest MLM scams.

Only retards and those with zero social boundaries get into this nonsense.

Here's an extension of my earlier link with more specific analysis.

What R3 said. I am totally against MLM or pyramid schemes but I know 8 people who did and they range from selling overpriced essential oils for some company, selling candles, cut co knives,over priced vitamins which you can just buy cheaper at a drug store, insurance/taxes from Primerica by people who are not CPAs, and I have seen people even selling water in a pyramid scheme. They think they will make lots of money.

Like R14 wrote, it is scary how some people think that essential oils replace medications.

Has DBD oil helped you?

My wife's involvement in MLM is what made me kill her.

Avon calling!

[quote]I was thinking it was only gay men and straight women who did this shit, but one of my married male co-workers

What in the ever loving fuck? Man, OP takes straight-worship and self-loathing to a whole new level.

I knew gay guys and women were dumb, but I can't believe the holy grail of straight men in their perfection could ever be as dumb as us f@gs.

Yikes, get help.

Years ago I was staying at a nice hotel; at the time they were hosting a convention of the upper level Amway disciples. Anyway, I was hanging out poolside and the place was crowded with these Amway folks, and I got to overhear their conversations about how basically every waking moment of their lives was devoted to Amway, and their entire social circle revolved around Amway -- they had no outside interests or other friends outside of this cult. I call it a cult, because I also got to hear them dismissively discuss the family relationships they had lost as a result of their indoctrination. It was all very chilling.

Need to lose weight?

Some friends of mine have been selling Shakelee Products for over 20 years. I actually like a lot of their products but I like just doing all my shipping in person at the grocery store. They can be a bit of a pain though sometimes in bothering you to buy more.

The Anti-MLM subreddit is hours of fun. They coined their own term for the fraus who peddle shit like doTERRA, Young Living, Younique, Mary Kay, Monat, and Lularoe: "hunbots."

R21, Amway really does tell their sales force to cut off family and friends who don't support them. Think Scientology and "suppressive people."

The big MLMs push motivational/magical thinking à la The Secret to try to keep sellers pumped up. And of course, those who don't succeed or drop out have only themselves to blame for not "working their business."

Have the number of people into pyramid schemes including selling overpriced essential oils gone up? At first I thought it was just limited to North America,but there are people in all regions of the world into this BS now.

Essential oils are a cult.

I have a former friend I went to College with, she was beautiful, charismatic and highly intelligent. She could have done anything with her life since she possessed all these attributes. She chose education and was a high school teacher for almost 20 years, I thought it was respectful that she followed her calling rather than pursuing a career just for the money. She got married about 10 years ago and her oldest started kindergarten last year. This is the first year she hasn't returned to teaching, she is now selling oils!! I know her husband is now making decent money so maybe she just doesn't care, and just needs a hobby to pass the time? She has a huge network of friends so I wonder if she'll be the type to recruit people and make a killing or if she will lose money like 99.4% of people that go into it. I'm not friends with her anymore but I am fascinated that someone with so much potential would go that route. If she needed a break from teaching and/or wanted to stay home with her kids, I honestly think a part time job at a fast food joint would make her more money without the stress of potentially alienating everyone in her circle.

R27 I know a former teacher who before he retired, got into the pyramid scheme/MLM Primerica scam of selling insurance and being a financial advisor and even doing people's taxes. Despite how he has zero qualfications for any of this he won awards for scamming people into buying insurance, do their taxes, etc.

This former teacher would call up and email all of his former teacher co-workers, who didn't like him all that much to begin with.

You don't say OP.

Never heard of Amway until this thread. Looked them up and don’t understand how they’re still in business.

I have a relative who sells Nerium face cream and I know the cult vibe mentioned upthread. It seems like these salespeople are just spending a lot of their own money to attend motivational conferences etc to be part of the “family” but several years on I don’t think there is any actual income, just a lot of talk and a bunch of Facebook posts about how lucky they are to work on their “business” while sitting on the beach with their laptop.

I think it can go both ways. Longeberger baskets is a good example. Direct marking was a way to sell a high quality product and still have it made in the USA. The women who sold them enjoyed the social interaction, and it got them out of the house. Originally, the purpose of direct selling was to get better quality products to rural areas that did not have the product choices of more developed communities. It still serves that purpose today with some "luxury" items. Also, don't underestimate the social nature of women. Think of how they they use Pandora bracelets as a means to connect with (or exclude) other women. Shopping in a home party environment is a natural extension of how women use consumer behavior as a social structure.

The some what darker side to this is that direct selling is often the only job job men in certain areas of this country will allow their wives to have since the hours are flexible and their wife can have dinner on the table when they get home. I would say that Longeberger baskets, Avon, and Papered Chef are OK.

Amway and Hebalife are cults. They are really very scary. I knew someone who got sucked into Herbalife...and then he died. Seriously. He got so sucked into it that he killed himself because "he was not good enough". He was pulling in over $100,000 at the time, but it was not good enough.

I don't know about Mary Kay, but on of my favorite experiences was being in a hotel while a Mary Kay convention was going on. It was amazing to get on an elevator full of women in pink suits and enormous rhinestone pins. The more successful you are the larger and more gaudy the pin. Apparently, there are male Mary Kay representatives and I believe they have actually permitted a few drag queens.

R32, I met the original creator of Herbalife and his 2nd wife, way back when the company was brand new. She was a beautiful trophy wife, wearing a white mink, he was oily and OCD to the max. She wanted an acting career. He wanted to show her off. Not surprised they divorced.

R31 Those Nerium bunch are like a cult and even have a term for certain people similar to what the Scientology people call a Suppressive Person. They are told that their leader is out there working on creating various cures to diseases, that he's very intelligent and is basically almost like a "prophet ",etc...

I suspect the same people own time shares too.

Those Arbonne people are insufferable too. My niece peddles that shit and thinks she’s an environmental warrior. It’s just makeup!!

It’s so awkward because my sister in law (MLM frau) gets so defensive about it and angry about our doubtful responses. But I just know her get-rich fantasy will collapse eventually. And I do feel bad for her about that, even though I can’t understand how an otherwise intelligent person can fall for this as a career choice in the first place.

[quote]Apparently, there are male Mary Kay representatives

Do they get gaudy pins?

I'm very surprised no one has mentioned AdvoCare.

Mary Kay has a nauseating term for the cold soliciting (i.e., harassment) they do in public: "Warm Chatter." Ex-reps on the various anti–Mary Kay/MLM forums say it was the part of the "job" they hated most.

Avon has an MLM track and a regular direct-sales track where you can just sell stuff without trying to recruit others or buy inventory like Mary Kay reps have to.

You do know that Longeberger went out of business for this very reason, don't you [32]? Market saturation among the limited number of customers for the product. Anyway, years ago I went to a party a friend of a friend was having at his house to discuss an "investment opportunity." Turned out to be MLM crap, but my friend bit and spent a lot of money on products he could only sell to his mother and possibly an aunt. But, the house was really nice, in a nice suburban neighborhood, and the guy said he was able to buy the house through selling this product. At the time I thought it seemed a little odd because the house didn't really looked lived in, looked more like something staged for a real estate sale. Found out that he didn't own it at all, was just short term renting in order to have his "parties" there.

My wretched stepmother was already involved with Amway when she married my dad, so he got roped into it. This was early 1980s. I remember they would have meetings out our house about once a month, and would hear them talking about different levels of membership like "Diamond", which I think was the highest level. I was only 12 at the time but I knew back then it seemed like a fraud. She had stockpiles of inventory in our garage, and I never understood why anyone would buy that stuff.

My dad divorced her frau ass a few years later. Good riddance!

A friend of my mom was the first distributor for Tupperware in the state, way back when. She was what everyone in MLM aspires to be- in on the ground floor of a good product. Her husband quit his job and they became rich rich rich. They had this big distribution warehouse. But like everything else, if a product is good somebody is going to knock it off and sell it for less. I drove by the warehouse recently and it had fallen into disrepair, the old sign hanging on by one nail and all the windows boarded up. But in the beginning, they lived very large.

[quote]You do know that Longeberger went out of business for this very reason, don't you [32]? Market saturation among the limited number of customers for the product.

Actually, that is not true. It is an easily digested soundbite but hardly represents the problem. Their corporate headquarters (see link) is a prime example. There is no reason for the company to have such an elaborate8and expensive) building. However, what really killed the company was selling it to JrJrnetworks. It is pretty much the same old story: founder dies; kids kill off the company.

Scentsy Candles......they stink.

OP: There are people on this message board who think they get "visitations" from the dead.

Others believe in astrology. Others in Jesus or another variety of god(s).

So, of course, there are gullible people out there who will fall for any nonsense.

IMHO these MLM schemes offer something that has huge appeal to a certain personality type: The chance to monetize popularity.

To someone who values social popularity, someone who has put a lot of effort into being popular or who really wants to become popular, it's a chance to turn popularity into money. If the hope of making popularity pay comes true it would fulfill all kinds of ego needs: Proof of being popular and beloved, the chance to do something they genuinely like for a living (socializing), the chance to escape a life of drudgery that makes them feel life a loser, validation that all the time and effort spent chasing popularity has been worthwhile, etc. The people who run these MLM schemes are fully aware of all this, and they use tactic with their sales force (suckers) guaranteed to appeal to people with personality type, the team/family atmosphere that makes the suckers feel loved and successful. It's really very sad.

I have a good friend who is also beautiful and charming. As a gig to add to her income, i forget the name of it, but she sells gift baskets. Things like oils and makeup. She makes a fucking killing.

R45 haha growing up my friend's mom who decorated her home in colonial style had one of those baskets. I think she bought it from a co-worker.

R49 how much does she make? There are even MLM pyramid schemes for selling sex toys.

That's very true R48. I saw on instagram some guy in Ireland selling essential oils who believes it will make him famous. I also have seen a men's barber try to sell his overpriced haircuts, and certain hair products via MLM or pyramid schemes. It's not like this guy is a former professional hair stylist for celebreties.

I don't know how much she makes but she uses it to finance her travel. Travel is her thing. She's taking her second trip, this year, to Europe and has done many weeks at the beach this year too. So that's about what she makes.

R52 a lot of times the company the person sells overpriced things for as MLM or pyramid scheme will pay for them to go to other countries for a conference, or to sell products there. It's not like traveling for holiday or vacation.

I posted the link for the MLM pyramid scheme barber George Bruno. He has bad reviews on yelp and has been told not to go back to barbershops, or salons.

No she's traveling for holiday. It's just her and her husband. I'll ask her what it is she sells

MLMs are basically cults. They use the same brainwashing tactics. You're part of a pyramid and the people at the top make most of the money. The more people recruited at the bottom of the pyramid, the more you move up. Sorta like a ponzi scheme.

OP is a piece of shit

a piece of shit on level 2 though.

Yup R55 and it seems like everyone is involved with one.

Remember the “Airplane” ponzie scheme that swept the country in the late 1970s? My sister in law won twice, I think the payoff was $10,000, each. She refunded some people.

R20 - Your outrage seriously made me stiff.

R59 I remember this from the 1980s but nobody I know became involved in it.

R59 and R61 I do remember the airplane game! It rippled through central Illinois when I was in college -- I think it was in 1985 or 1986. I can remember hearing about it before it came to town ... it was in Bloomington and it was on its way to Champaign-Urbana. I think they asked each "passenger" for $1500. Me and my college buddies pooled our money -- I put in $250. I think we made it to the second level, and then the whole thing fell apart. I could have used that money to help pay off my student loans.

Ugh, just say no!!!

My old bosses were Team National freaks and I would listen in on their recruitment meetings where they would tell poor people to hock whatever they could to join (800-2000 bucks) bc they'd make plenty of money to buy it back later. LIES.

At one time, my sister was praising the fruit drink called “Monavie”. I think it was made with pomegranate juice. All I remember was how she raved about how her nails looked better. I had never heard of it. Finally I got tired of hearing about it and asked her why she was praising it.

It’s business plan was to use the drink as away to create a pyramid. I could never shill such a product, nor frankly, drink it.

She and her husband fall for a lot of schemes. I can’t understand why. Unless because they simply believe anyone who speaks with confidence.

LuLaRoe makes the most hideous clothing in the universe.

r63. Great find. Very interesting to read. And all this even before poor people will loose all their money.

r66. This are the clothes and prints they are selling? Well, but even in the US you only need one Hallooween outfit a year.

plexus, the pink drink is evil!!

I’m not sure if Landmark Education was mentioned in this thread. It also qualifies as MLM for self improvement. I confided with two friends who were very involved in Landmark that I was having some relationship problems with my partner. They jumped all over me to get me to sign up and pay for this introductory course in Landmark education. There must have been 250-300 other attendees who were being carefully managed by volunteers. Nobody ever got paid for all the presentations they were doing but insisted that in order to progress in your self improvement you would need to continue to pay for additional seminars and training. Who was taking in all the thousands of dollars in revenue? I finally got up and left and was pursued by room attendants who tried to convince me to stay. A couple of days later my friends called to ask why I left. Word travelled very fast with this group. I was very nice to my friends with my response because I really valued their friendship. I simply told them that the program was not for me but thanks anyway. I ultimately resolved my issue with my partner but my relationship with my friends became noticeably distant as they felt that I had failed in the program and was lost forever. Very sad.

R70, I have a Landmark story. Everyone I met was intelligent, very well educated, and successful in their careers.

It’s the only scam I’ve ever encountered where the suckers are smart people.

OP, Thank you for this thread. I've seen otherwise bright people get suckered into various MLM schemes by their super salespeople leaders. All of then are oversold by the concept of supposedly having your own business with flexible time requirements. Few don't suffer heavy financial losses, to say nothing of the enormous amount of time and energy they invested.

R66, Most of the people involved in and buying LuLaRoe are considerably overweight or have an unusual body type, such as being extremely busty, so that standardized clothing aren't at all flattering.

Free-flowing African styles of dress works much better on these women, if they're ethnic. Otherwise there aren't a lot of alternatives.

Still the horrendous prints and garish colors are the last thing I'd recommend for overweight women.

Health bands

R70, Your encounter is similar to what I've experienced with others involved in various MLM schemes. In reality it's very hard after the fact to realize these MLM sellers weren't ever true friends. Similarly I've split from many people when they realized I wasn't going to convert to their religion and accept their belief system.

I had a coworker who I used to socialize with but his wife got into MLM and our socializing became him inviting me to "parties" where she sold her crap. I had to drop him after that.

Went to a fairly upscale Meetup.com wine tasting party at an art gallery. I actually wanted to buy a couple bottles of the wine. No, I had to buy into a membership in the wine club.

Like most MLM invitations post the extremely widespread use of the internet as a source of detailed and revealing info, the hosts lied about the purpose of the party. It wasn't just to promote the art gallery.

[quote] I have a Landmark story. Everyone I met was intelligent, very well educated, and successful in their careers.

Yes, they're smart, but they're emotionally naive or hurting or grieving in some way. I've actually run into people who used to run the Landmark seminars--these people tend to be uneducated (formally), but have very high emotional intelligence (or just an instinct for what someone wants to or needs to hear). I have no other evidence than my own life experience of Landmark, but I swear these people prey on the gay community especially.

The one short seminar thing I sat in on--but did not participate in--shocked me by how emotionally manipulative it was.

R78, You are very wise. Many of us are emotionally naive, grieving, hurting in some way. Resent cult-like groups who prey upon the needy. Happy I've never spent money on them but no so many others who have done so.

Any suggestions on how to gain EQ?

The high school friends on my Facebook tend to hawk protein powder after going through a weight loss routine.