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Beth Howland died six months ago

Beth Howland, who made high anxiety an art form as the ditsy, accident-prone waitress Vera Louise Gorman on the 1970s and ’80s sitcom “Alice,” died on Dec. 31, 2015, in Santa Monica, Calif., her husband said on Tuesday. He had refrained from announcing her death earlier in keeping with her wishes. She was 74.

The cause was lung cancer, her husband, the actor Charles Kimbrough, said, adding that she had not wanted a funeral or a memorial service.

“It was the Boston side of her personality coming out,” Mr. Kimbrough said. “She didn’t want to make a fuss.”

Ms. Howland was a modestly successful television actress, with a handful of Broadway credits on her résumé, when Alan Shayne, the president of Warner Bros. Television, began casting roles for “Alice.” The CBS series, based on the 1974 Martin Scorsese film “Alice Doesn’t Live Here Anymore,” required three waitresses for Mel’s Diner, the locus of the action, one of them the high-strung Vera, played in the film by Valerie Curtin.

Mr. Shayne had seen Ms. Howland on Broadway in the Stephen Sondheim musical “Company,” where, as a nervous prospective bride named Amy, she sang a lightning-fast patter song, “Getting Married Today.”

“Vera was written as a taut wire, ready to go to pieces at any minute,” he wrote in “Double Life: A Love Story From Broadway to Hollywood” (2011), a memoir written with Norman Sunshine. He recalled Ms. Howland, in the musical, “going to pieces in front of the audience’s eyes.”

Ms. Howland won the role, and for nine seasons, from 1976 to 1985, she kept television audiences amused with her wide-eyed, jumpy performances. Asked to describe her character, she told Knight Newspapers in 1979: “Insecure and vulnerable. Probably works the hardest of anybody in the diner. Very gullible, very innocent.”

Elizabeth Howland was born on May 28, 1941, in Boston. She studied dance at the Hazel Boone Studio and, after graduating from high school at 16, headed to New York, where she landed a replacement role as Lady Beth in “Once Upon a Mattress” and a role as a dancer in “Bye Bye Birdie.” She also appeared, alongside Valerie Harper and Donna Douglas, the future Elly May Clampett on “The Beverly Hillbillies,” as a dancer in the 1959 film “Li’l Abner.”

At 19 she married Michael J. Pollard, one of the lead actors in “Bye Bye Birdie.” The marriage ended in divorce. In addition to her husband, who played the anchorman Jim Dial on the television series “Murphy Brown,” she is survived by a daughter from her first marriage, Holly Howland.

Small parts on Broadway and in the Off Broadway hit “Your Own Thing,” a musical version of “Twelfth Night,” led to her breakthrough role in “Company” and her tour-de-force rendition of “Getting Married Today.”

“It was a perfect song for me,” she told The Los Angeles Times in 2004. “I’m not a singer, and it has maybe four notes.”

She performed it again when most of the original cast reassembled in 1993 for concert performances at the Terrace Theater in Long Beach, Calif., and the Vivian Beaumont Theater in Lincoln Center.

After being cast as the wife of a character played by Bert Convy on an episode of “The Mary Tyler Moore Show,” she moved to Los Angeles to work in television. She appeared on “Love, American Style,” “Cannon,” “The Rookies” and other shows before taking the role of Vera on “Alice.”

Unlike many actors, Ms. Howland had never worked as a waitress. “But I just kept sitting around coffee shops and watching how it’s done, and now I can carry four dinners,” she told Knight Newspapers.

One of Vera’s most memorable moments on the show occurred a scant few seconds after the beginning of the first episode. A customer’s cheery “Hi, Vera,” caused her to throw a boxful of drinking straws into the air. The freak-out became part of the show’s opening credit sequence.

For nine years, Vera remained overwrought, but changes did occur. Toward the end of the series, she married a police officer, Elliot Novak, played by Charles Levin. In the final episode, she announced that she was pregnant.

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by Anonymousreply 323July 18, 2019 6:55 AM

Didn't someone spill that here a few months ago?

by Anonymousreply 1May 25, 2016 5:12 AM

Aww, I liked her! Too bad it wasn't Fankie Grande or his whore half-sister Arianus.

by Anonymousreply 2May 25, 2016 5:19 AM

In lieu of flowers, please spill a box of straws over the grave.

by Anonymousreply 3May 25, 2016 5:56 AM

R2 I love you!

by Anonymousreply 4May 25, 2016 6:07 AM

Up in heaven right now, Vic Tayback is shouting at her, "STOW IT, DINGY!"

by Anonymousreply 5May 25, 2016 6:33 AM

Odd her husband waited that long to announce her death.

I wonder if Linda Lavin will comment? I never heard her having problems Howland. I guess she wasn't threatened by her like she was Polly Holliday and Diane Ladd.

by Anonymousreply 6May 25, 2016 6:51 AM

Here's the original pilot of Alice, looks for Vera's straw throwing at 1:30

by Anonymousreply 7May 25, 2016 8:02 AM

And the straws fly again at 3:23

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by Anonymousreply 8May 25, 2016 8:05 AM

There would never have been Crystal on Roseanne without her. Nervous Okie baby women. Just about my least favorite type of woman in real life lol.

by Anonymousreply 9May 25, 2016 8:12 AM

Sad news. RIP Beth.

by Anonymousreply 10May 25, 2016 10:26 AM

I don't think so, R1, but we did comment a lot about her having completely vanished. I think the last thing she was in was an episode of "The Tick" with Patrick Warburton about 15 years ago. Then she married Charles Kimbrough and vanished.

She made the tabloids in 2009 or so after coming out of a doctor's office, which they said was secret plastic surgery, but I'd bet she was already ill.

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by Anonymousreply 11May 25, 2016 10:47 AM

Her song has always been the highlight of Company for me

by Anonymousreply 12May 25, 2016 11:49 AM

OMG. I loved Beth Howland. I'm really sad today. Why do people keep dying?

by Anonymousreply 13May 25, 2016 12:16 PM

R13 It's part of life.

by Anonymousreply 14May 25, 2016 12:19 PM

I know but it's sad. She was a part of my childhood.

by Anonymousreply 15May 25, 2016 12:21 PM

Awww. RIP, Beth, and thanks for the memories.

by Anonymousreply 16May 25, 2016 12:55 PM

Has anyone seen Vicky Wyndham lately?

Was she at The Preakness, perhaps?

by Anonymousreply 17May 25, 2016 12:56 PM

Damn you, R17, you got the Rachel mention while I was typing!

They can always recast with Vicky.

by Anonymousreply 18May 25, 2016 12:57 PM

I thought I remembered that she had crippling arthritis and that was why she semi-retired.

by Anonymousreply 19May 25, 2016 1:11 PM

Married at one time to this????

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by Anonymousreply 20May 25, 2016 1:21 PM

Why would she want the announcement of her death to wait 6 months? Was it to make sure that she was undeniably and reliably dead? Only in Hollyweird! ☠

by Anonymousreply 21May 25, 2016 1:21 PM

Worst rhinoplasty in the history of medicine.

by Anonymousreply 22May 25, 2016 1:22 PM

If I recall correctly, Valerie Curtin did the straw-throwing thing in the movie Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, so her most famous moment was just a recreation. Kind of sad.

I agree that it's bizarre she asked her husband to wait six months to announce her death. Can't really see the point of that.

by Anonymousreply 23May 25, 2016 1:26 PM

Aw, c'mon R20. Michael J Pollard was a cute little dork back when Howland married him.

I remember being a little gay boy, looking at the photos on the back of the BYE BYE BIRDIE cast album and wondering what was inside those khakis.

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by Anonymousreply 24May 25, 2016 2:30 PM

[quote]Why would she want the announcement of her death to wait 6 months?

Because she was an egotistical jerk. She knew she could never have any fame while she was alive no matter, what, so she thought of this publicity stunt.

by Anonymousreply 25May 25, 2016 2:48 PM

6 months ago ? I guess it's too late for an open casket service ?

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by Anonymousreply 26May 25, 2016 3:01 PM

Someone did announc this on DL. It was either Jan or Feb, and they said that Beth Howland had already died but there would be no announcement. No one believe him.

by Anonymousreply 27May 25, 2016 3:09 PM

Nothing like that comes up in a search, R27.

by Anonymousreply 28May 25, 2016 3:46 PM

OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 29May 25, 2016 4:03 PM

[quote]At 19 she married Michael J. Pollard, one of the lead actors in “Bye Bye Birdie.”

Who did he play-- Hugo? I can't imagine him singing.

by Anonymousreply 30May 25, 2016 4:19 PM

He was the first Hugo on Broadway.

by Anonymousreply 31May 25, 2016 4:26 PM

[quote]Odd her husband waited that long to announce her death.

She probably didn't want Linda Lavin to sing at the funeral.

by Anonymousreply 32May 25, 2016 4:27 PM

r11 Her husband probably didn't want to give the tabloids the satisfaction of saying they were right.

by Anonymousreply 33May 25, 2016 4:32 PM

R30, Hugo was a much smaller role in the b'way show than it was in the movie. The whole Hugo/Kim pairing played on the back burner. Rosie and Albert were much more center stage.

by Anonymousreply 34May 25, 2016 4:38 PM

Bravo, R32!

by Anonymousreply 35May 25, 2016 4:45 PM

"I remember being a little gay boy, looking at the photos on the back of the BYE BYE BIRDIE cast album and wondering what was inside those khakis. "

Short of coming out of the womb throwing glitter everywhere, your family must've known you were gay even then, right?

by Anonymousreply 36May 25, 2016 5:01 PM

[quote][R30], Hugo was a much smaller role in the b'way show than it was in the movie. The whole Hugo/Kim pairing played on the back burner. Rosie and Albert were much more center stage.

Hugo and Kim weren't even in [italic]Bring Back Birdie[/italic], and that's one of many reasons it failed.

by Anonymousreply 37May 25, 2016 5:03 PM

Vera doesn't live here anymore, either.

by Anonymousreply 38May 25, 2016 5:06 PM

This is one of those deaths that immediately make me think of Datalounge.

by Anonymousreply 39May 25, 2016 5:39 PM

R36

UGH ! Got the hots for MICHAEL J. POLLARD ? He's always been F U G L Y. Looks like some buMpkin from Nebraska.

I think of him more from the film BONNIE & CLYDE.

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by Anonymousreply 40May 25, 2016 5:40 PM

There's a new girl in town!

by Anonymousreply 41May 25, 2016 5:41 PM

What was on her iPod?

I'll start:

Clutching at Straws - Marillion

by Anonymousreply 42May 25, 2016 5:44 PM

R17 and R18 I knew you bitches would come through!

BNSD, hats off that it was you who beat me!

by Anonymousreply 43May 25, 2016 6:17 PM

Have you seen Beth on the Working video? She makes such a wistful "Just A Housewife." And it's so wonderful.

by Anonymousreply 44May 25, 2016 6:21 PM

[quote] I agree that it's bizarre she asked her husband to wait six months to announce her death. Can't really see the point of that.

Clearly she was hoping Lavin would get a Tony nomination for that execrable POS she did this season at MTC and Howland figured she'd steal her thunder.

by Anonymousreply 45May 25, 2016 6:29 PM

I know it may be the MARY!est thing ever said here but I have a lot of respect for her.

She wasn't a fame whore, she was talented, did what she wanted and what suited her talents, and even won an Oscar as a producer.

I truly hope she went in peace, and will fondly remember her work.

by Anonymousreply 46May 25, 2016 6:37 PM

She won an Oscar as a producer? Of what?

by Anonymousreply 47May 25, 2016 6:45 PM

She and the actress Jennifer Warren were the executive producers of the documentary “You Don’t Have to Die,” about a 6-year-old boy’s successful battle against cancer. It won an Academy Award in 1989 for best short-subject documentary.

by Anonymousreply 48May 25, 2016 6:54 PM

[quote] She won an Oscar as a producer? Of what?

The longest fart in St. Olaf, Rose.

by Anonymousreply 49May 25, 2016 7:00 PM

Beth with her original nose.

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by Anonymousreply 50May 25, 2016 7:07 PM

Has Sondheim weighed in yet?

by Anonymousreply 51May 25, 2016 7:20 PM

Linda Lavin might just die today on live TV. G-d forbid someone else from her show get a bit of attention.

by Anonymousreply 52May 25, 2016 7:24 PM

Wasn't the original Vera in "Alice...." more of a darker, withdrawn character and not the ding-y version Beth brought to life?

by Anonymousreply 53May 25, 2016 7:25 PM

[quote]Linda Lavin might just die today on live TV.

Die??? And steal Val Harper's death watch? Linda will pose for Granny Playboy and flash her vay jay jay.

by Anonymousreply 54May 25, 2016 7:26 PM

Beth basically disappeared after Alice. She must've invested her money well because she barely worked again for the next 30 years.

by Anonymousreply 55May 25, 2016 7:29 PM

[quote]Beth Howland died six months ago

She was preceded in death by her career.

by Anonymousreply 56May 25, 2016 7:35 PM

R55 Her husband was on "Murphy Brown" for TEN SEASONS. I doubt they were hurting for money.

by Anonymousreply 57May 25, 2016 7:36 PM

I like the theory that Beth Howland didn't want Linda Lavin insisting on singing at her funeral.

Therrrrrre's a NEEEEWWWWW girl in the ground She's not...feelin' GOOOOOD!

by Anonymousreply 58May 25, 2016 7:39 PM

I didn't know she smoked.

by Anonymousreply 59May 25, 2016 7:39 PM

You bitches never disappoint when it comes to Linda Lavin!

by Anonymousreply 60May 25, 2016 7:40 PM

I'll drop a bit of gossip that I know since there really isn't that much gossip about Beth. In the Company reunion concert, Pamela Myers is wearing one of Elaine Stritch's dresses.

by Anonymousreply 61May 25, 2016 7:40 PM

R58. LOL x 5. Well done.

by Anonymousreply 62May 25, 2016 7:40 PM

[quote] She was preceded in death by her career.

Hateful, hateful.....HATEFUL!

Well done, bitch!

by Anonymousreply 63May 25, 2016 7:42 PM

"Wasn't the original Vera in "Alice...." more of a darker, withdrawn character and not the ding-y version Beth brought to life?"

The movie in general was much darker. Lots of stuff changed when it was made into a traditional sitcom.

by Anonymousreply 64May 25, 2016 7:43 PM

Linda Lavin was so nasty they should've called her sitcom Malice.

by Anonymousreply 65May 25, 2016 7:45 PM

Linda Lavin seemed to hate everyone on that set. Polly Holliday quit because Lavin was such a cunt to her.

by Anonymousreply 66May 25, 2016 7:45 PM

[quote]Polly Holliday quit because Lavin was such a cunt to her.

No she didn't. They tried to spin Flo off on her own show and it didn't work. And Polly wasn't about to come crawling back after they gave the role to the original Flo.

by Anonymousreply 67May 25, 2016 7:48 PM

The part about Lavin being a cunt to Holliday was true though.

by Anonymousreply 68May 25, 2016 7:54 PM

Think about poor Polly Holliday though. They wanted the "original" Flo on the show, so they create this shit show and push her off onto it.

But then again, I took acting class with Bill Hickey and he said Polly was a cunt.

But then again, Bill Hickey was a big old drunk. So who knows where the truth lies.

by Anonymousreply 69May 25, 2016 8:00 PM

Linda and Polly were BOTH cunts.

by Anonymousreply 70May 25, 2016 8:01 PM

Saw her in the original cast of Company. The audience adored her. RIP.

by Anonymousreply 71May 25, 2016 8:04 PM

R8 I wonder why they replaced the original Tommy.

Jesus, that song Lavin sings at the end is terrible. She puts on this fake show biz accent. "I wandahed aroooound, I finally founnnnd somebodah whooooo".

The SCTV parody of her was SAVAGE and right on.

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by Anonymousreply 72May 25, 2016 8:04 PM

Really enjoy her "Just a Housewife" in WORKING, R44 -- very sweet! And of course, her "Getting Married Today" is terrific.

I remember an article about her in "People" during her ALICE days -- she divorced Pollard around the time of BONNIE AND CLYDE and raised heir daughter on her own. I was impressed that she didn't bad-mouth Pollard or boast about raising her daughter herself.

by Anonymousreply 73May 25, 2016 8:06 PM

Pollard always looked serial-killer-like disturbed.

by Anonymousreply 74May 25, 2016 8:09 PM

Is it possible Kimbrough misunderstood and what Howland really wanted was no memorial service that Linda Lavin could attend and ruin by being her usual prune cunt self.

by Anonymousreply 75May 25, 2016 8:11 PM

Maybe Kimbrough misunderstood and she said she wanted people to know six months BEFORE she died so that she could be included in the Emmys "Who Died" sequence.

by Anonymousreply 76May 25, 2016 8:15 PM

[quote]Michael J. Pollard

His claim to fame was replacing Gilligan on "Dobie Gillis" then when Gilligan got booted out of the military they canned Pollard's ass. Replaced by Gilligan how embarrassing for him.

As for Beth she was a fame whore, she just knew she couldn't get any fame while alive so she dreamed up this publicity stunt of don't tell anyone about my death, because she knew if they announced it at the time she died, people would say "so what?"

by Anonymousreply 77May 25, 2016 8:25 PM

I've been so sad all day with this news in my heart. I feel so bad for Holly.

by Anonymousreply 78May 25, 2016 9:42 PM

I remember her as Merna no Mearnnna on The Brady Bunch.

by Anonymousreply 79May 25, 2016 9:46 PM

I remember a made-for-tv movie she starred in back in the 80s called Things My Mother Told Me or something like that.

by Anonymousreply 80May 25, 2016 9:54 PM

R77 Michael J. Pollard was a big movie actor at the time. More famous than you indicate. Co-starring with Robert Redford, many appearances in films. Great character actor! Warren Beatty had to use him for Dick Tracy and did.

by Anonymousreply 81May 25, 2016 9:57 PM

R77 is a GRUP!

by Anonymousreply 82May 25, 2016 11:40 PM

[quote]I remember her as Merna no Mearnnna on The Brady Bunch.

That was Bonnie Boland, you fat stupid whore!

by Anonymousreply 83May 25, 2016 11:54 PM

Stow it R77!

by Anonymousreply 84May 26, 2016 12:02 AM

Why did they pick the bland, Aryan Phillip McKeown to play the Jewish Lavin's kid?

by Anonymousreply 85May 26, 2016 12:11 AM

Alice was Maude in the desert.

by Anonymousreply 86May 26, 2016 12:13 AM

No service? Damn, I could have sung some scat.

Bobbideedoobabaaaaaaaaaaa.....

by Anonymousreply 87May 26, 2016 12:23 AM

Ayliss, kiss ma grits

by Anonymousreply 88May 26, 2016 1:46 AM

LOL R41. Even though it's so wrong.

by Anonymousreply 89May 26, 2016 1:54 AM

Beth must've had the patience of a saint to put up with Lavin for nine seasons. She stuck it out for the whole series.

by Anonymousreply 90May 26, 2016 2:14 AM

There was an early episode of Alice where Vera tried to kill herself by overdosing on sleeping pills. It was dark and actually quite a good episode.

by Anonymousreply 91May 26, 2016 2:19 AM

[quote] Short of coming out of the womb throwing glitter everywhere, your family must've known you were gay even then, right?

Believe it or not, no. They were surprised when I told them at age 19.

But they recovered fairly quickly from the shock...then gave me 30 minutes to get my stuff and get out of their house.

Have you ever tried to pack up 200 original cast albums in 30 minutes???

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by Anonymousreply 92May 26, 2016 2:19 AM

Will Broadway dim for Beth?

BTW, when did Broadway last dim?

by Anonymousreply 93May 26, 2016 2:28 AM

Elaine Stritch a couple of years ago, I think.

I wonder why Beth Howland pretty much stopped acting after Alice. She surely could've worked more if she'd wanted to. Especially in theater. Maybe she just lost interest and had enough money not to bother with it anymore.

by Anonymousreply 94May 26, 2016 2:35 AM

Vera, not Alice, was the heart of the show.

by Anonymousreply 95May 26, 2016 2:53 AM

Polly Holliday, you're next!

by Anonymousreply 96May 26, 2016 3:43 AM

R30 Hugo is a non-singing role in BIRDIE.

by Anonymousreply 97May 26, 2016 3:46 AM

....

by Anonymousreply 98May 26, 2016 11:15 AM

She said in an interview once that before she landed Alice, she was broke and her and her daughter lived on eating tuna fish sandwiches for their meals.

She probably could've gotten more work if she tried harder but might have been tired of the BS with being a middle aged actress in Hollywood. And lets face it, there are limited roles for actress of her type. Actresses with more drive like Beverly Archer and Lucy Lee Flippen were getting most of them.

by Anonymousreply 99May 26, 2016 11:27 AM

I hated her big eyed schtick and baby voice. Polly Holiday and Vic Tayback were the only tolerable members of the original cast, though I enjoyed Celia Weston as Jolene during the later seasons.

by Anonymousreply 100May 26, 2016 12:00 PM

And as been said upthread, her husband Charles Kimbrough was a very successful character actor, not only on Murphy Brown, but in films and on Broadway. He was also in the original cast of Company. She didn't need to work.

I worked with Charles a couple of times in the last 20 years and he was a delightful, smart and very gentle man. Oddly, I had no idea then that he was married to Beth Howland.

by Anonymousreply 101May 26, 2016 12:28 PM

She wanted to beat all the other celebs to the 2016 rush. Smart girl.

by Anonymousreply 102May 26, 2016 12:35 PM

I loved Beth Howland. I have been terribly upset since I heard the news. I'm discussing this at my therapist appointment today.

by Anonymousreply 103May 26, 2016 12:38 PM

[quote] Beth Howland died six months ago

What is that SMELL?

by Anonymousreply 104May 26, 2016 12:49 PM

She was definitely a smoker.

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by Anonymousreply 105May 26, 2016 1:00 PM

I always liked her face. It was like a skull with a very thin layer of skin over it. Her teeth were tall and she had grey gums.

by Anonymousreply 106May 26, 2016 1:08 PM

Does she smoke in the Company OBC recording documentary? All I can remember about that is a drunk Elaine Stritch screaming "Wrong!" Maybe I need to rewatch in honor of Beth.

by Anonymousreply 107May 26, 2016 1:27 PM

Why the butchered nose job? Her original nose at R50 looked fine.

Mel was hot until he got fat in later seasons.

Tommy in Season 1 was fug.

by Anonymousreply 108May 26, 2016 1:40 PM

Elaine and many of the men smoke during the Company recording, even while they're singing into the mics. It must have driven the non-smokers crazy.

You see that in many photos of those recording sessions. Sondheim and Loesser and Styne eagerly giving notes to the actors as they puff smoke into their faces.

by Anonymousreply 109May 26, 2016 2:38 PM

Any pictures of the 70 year old Beth Howland out there? I'm counting on you, DL!

by Anonymousreply 110May 26, 2016 2:47 PM

[quote]It must have driven the non-smokers crazy.

Actually, back then everyone smoked everywhere so people were more used to it. It wasn't uncommon to be sitting next to several people in an office who were smoking. In restaurants, everyone smoked.

by Anonymousreply 111May 26, 2016 3:03 PM

I know it's hard to believe now, but back in those days most non-smokers put up with smoke everywhere, it wasn't an issue. Nobody really bitched and moaned and complained. Today, if someone catches a whiff of smoke on the street they go nuts.

by Anonymousreply 112May 26, 2016 3:06 PM

Does anyone remember the episode of ALICE in season 3 where the three waitresses and Mel all agree to give up their vices? With Mel it was gambling, with Flo it was coffee, with Alice it was chocolates and with Vera it was SMOKING.

Now, Vera had never, ever been seen smoking in the history of the show. Suddenly she was an insatiable smoker. She was doing all these elaborate schemes to be able to smoke. And then, during the rest of the series she was never again seen smoking or talking about smoking. Very bad writing.

I feel like that was a show where the CAST was wonderful. The original three waitresses were fantastic, and then even Diane Ladd and Celia Weston were very good (though not a perfect as Polly Holliday, honestly). The writing was never up to snuff. Very hacky jokes, and a terrible phony sounding laugh track (the show was done on a soundstage, not never in front of an audience).

Vera was a much more interesting character during the first episodes of season 1. More like the Vera from the movie. She was dark, and quirky, bordering on mental illness. In one of the first episodes, she attempts suicide (!) over the loss of a boyfriend. Soon, though, she became just an idiot like Chrissy on Three's Company. Remember when she thought that George Burns was ACTUALLY God?

All this said, this was a favorite show of mine when I was 9 to maybe 11 years old. CBS showed in in the morning circa 1980 as reruns, and I watched every day during summer vacation. Definitely an early sign of gayness.

by Anonymousreply 113May 26, 2016 3:24 PM

[quote]Why did they pick the bland, Aryan Phillip McKeown to play the Jewish Lavin's kid?

Alfred Ludner was a better Tommy but they canned him after he and Mel didn't get along.

Without Phillip there'd be no Jo.

by Anonymousreply 114May 26, 2016 3:35 PM

One of the episodes I most remember was Belle teaching Vera how to be sexy: "You got to move like the waves in the ocean, uh-huh..." Then of course Vera overdoes it ("I'm Vera Louise, and I'm here to please!") and gets in trouble.

by Anonymousreply 115May 26, 2016 3:44 PM

Yeah Alfred Lutter was a better actor.

I wonder if, when Alice would come on for years and years after that it bothered him to have been canned? That would have been a nice steady 9 year check.

Actually having looked it up now, maybe not. Lutter went to Sanford and got an M.S. He's currently a broadcast executive. Hm.

by Anonymousreply 116May 26, 2016 3:45 PM

Remember when they tried to give Belle a catchphrase like Flo's "Kiss my grits"?

It was TERRIBLE. It was:

"My little voice said to me 'Isobel..' my little voice calls me Isoble..."

THAT was it! Such an awful unmemorable catchphrase.

Another catchphrase that never caught on was Ann Romano's "Oh my Gooooooood" from On Day at a Time.

by Anonymousreply 117May 26, 2016 3:47 PM

*one day at a time

by Anonymousreply 118May 26, 2016 3:55 PM

[quote]Now, Vera had never, ever been seen smoking in the history of the show. Suddenly she was an insatiable smoker. She was doing all these elaborate schemes to be able to smoke. And then, during the rest of the series she was never again seen smoking or talking about smoking. Very bad writing.

Perhaps Howland was the only smoker in the cast. They would have assigned her character that vice so that a non-smoker would not have to take up the habit for the duration of the episode. Howland's nicotine habit may have been a carryover from her days as a dancer. Many dancers smoke to replace eating in order to control their weight.

by Anonymousreply 119May 26, 2016 3:59 PM

[quote]Why did they pick the bland, Aryan Phillip McKeown to play the Jewish Lavin's kid?

Because in those days many Aryans passed for Jews, Rose.

by Anonymousreply 120May 26, 2016 4:01 PM

[quote]Perhaps Howland was the only smoker in the cast.

Linda Lavin also smoked.

Whoever would have thought that Celia Weston would become one of the most in-demand character actresses in the business? She works constantly, one of the very few examples of an actresses' career getting better as she got older.

by Anonymousreply 121May 26, 2016 4:08 PM

[quote]Alfred Ludner was a better Tommy but they canned him after he and Mel didn't get along.

How much interaction was he supposed to have with Mel? Tommy would come into the diner, make a few jokes, then leave. It's not like they had whole scenes together.

by Anonymousreply 122May 26, 2016 4:10 PM

[quote] Why did they pick the bland, Aryan Phillip McKeown to play the Jewish Lavin's kid?

He was circumcised.

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by Anonymousreply 123May 26, 2016 4:22 PM

She went to shit and the hogs ate her!

by Anonymousreply 124May 26, 2016 4:39 PM

"Mel, why don't you go give yourself a jack job in a paper sack and GET OFF MY BACK!

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by Anonymousreply 125May 26, 2016 4:47 PM

[quote]Does anyone remember the episode of ALICE in season 3 where the three waitresses and Mel all agree to give up their vices? With Mel it was gambling, with Flo it was coffee, with Alice it was chocolates and with Vera it was SMOKING.

[quote]Now, Vera had never, ever been seen smoking in the history of the show. Suddenly she was an insatiable smoker. She was doing all these elaborate schemes to be able to smoke. And then, during the rest of the series she was never again seen smoking or talking about smoking. Very bad writing.

This is like that Season 4 GOLDEN GIRLS episode, "High Anxiety," where it is revealed that goody-two-shoes Rose has been a painkiller addict for some twenty odd years. That came out of nowhere, and it was never mentioned again for the rest of the series.

by Anonymousreply 126May 26, 2016 5:22 PM

OP, Beth Howland died on December 31, 2015 -- that's not even FIVE months yet! It's actually only four months and 26 days.

by Anonymousreply 127May 26, 2016 5:25 PM

"This is like that Season 4 GOLDEN GIRLS episode, "High Anxiety," where it is revealed that goody-two-shoes Rose has been a painkiller addict for some twenty odd years. That came out of nowhere, and it was never mentioned again for the rest of the series."

Or in whatever season it was, Dorothy got a hearing aid and then it was never a problem after that. Or when Dorothy had chronic fatigue syndrome and ripped the doctor a new one, and then it never was mentioned again.

by Anonymousreply 128May 26, 2016 5:27 PM

Or Dorothy's gambling problem.

by Anonymousreply 129May 26, 2016 5:28 PM

[quote]Does anyone remember the episode of ALICE in season 3 where the three waitresses and Mel all agree to give up their vices? With Mel it was gambling, with Flo it was coffee, with Alice it was chocolates and with Vera it was SMOKING.

And by the end of the episode, they had all traded vices.

by Anonymousreply 130May 26, 2016 5:30 PM

[quote] That came out of nowhere, and it was never mentioned again for the rest of the series.

Tell me about it

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by Anonymousreply 131May 26, 2016 5:55 PM

Oh, Butch was just there because Fred shot a super 8mm bestiality video with Ethel and the dog and sold it on the black market. Then he skinned the dog and sold its meat at the local butcher shop.

Boy, ol' Skin Flint Freddie sure was cheap.

by Anonymousreply 132May 26, 2016 5:58 PM

[quote]I always liked her face. It was like a skull with a very thin layer of skin over it. Her teeth were tall and she had grey gums.

That's a good description on how she looked. The nose job drew even more attention to it. I always wondered if she had some type of eating disorder. Not uncommon at all for actresses.

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by Anonymousreply 133May 26, 2016 6:21 PM

Here's a pic from when she guest starred on "Sabrina The Teenage Witch" in 1997. She looked a lot like Sissy Spacek.

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by Anonymousreply 134May 26, 2016 6:26 PM

Re: Vera's now-you-see-it,-now-you-don't cigarette addiction, that reminds me of the episode of Maude in which Maude decides to get an abortion. Never in that series, before or since, was any mention ever made of Maude and Walter fucking. (And the specter of that is horrifying.)

by Anonymousreply 135May 26, 2016 7:20 PM

"Because she was an egotistical jerk. She knew she could never have any fame while she was alive no matter, what, so she thought of this publicity stunt."

Beth Howland was "an egotistical jerk?" BETH HOWLAND?! You are either a particularly stupid shit-stirring troll or a particularly stupid, pathetic excuse for a human being. Eat shit, you idiot.

by Anonymousreply 136May 26, 2016 7:22 PM

[quote] Or Dorothy's gambling problem.

Or her vestigal penis.

by Anonymousreply 137May 26, 2016 7:28 PM

"As for Beth she was a fame whore, she just knew she couldn't get any fame while alive so she dreamed up this publicity stunt of don't tell anyone about my death, because she knew if they announced it at the time she died, people would say "so what?"

Beth Howland was a "fame whore?" You're a retard!

by Anonymousreply 138May 26, 2016 7:28 PM

[quote]I loved Beth Howland. I have been terribly upset since I heard the news. I'm discussing this at my therapist appointment today.

You guys are slipping. If any post has ever deserved an immediate "MARY!", it's that one.

by Anonymousreply 139May 26, 2016 7:31 PM

Lest we forget, here's Linda Lavin singing a song from her star-making role.

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by Anonymousreply 140May 26, 2016 7:33 PM

Remember the Alice episodes where Linda Lavin sang and danced, so she could show off her "talent?" I wonder if she had it in her contract that she must do a musical number in a set amount of shows per season.

I have a vague, horrifying memory of Linda and Martha Raye singing Rod Stewart's "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy."

by Anonymousreply 141May 26, 2016 7:55 PM

R141 who the hell told Linda she could sing? Seriously, her rendition of the theme song is horrible! She can't even maintain a tune or rhythm or anything.

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by Anonymousreply 142May 26, 2016 7:57 PM

Remember the Dr. Joyce Brothers episode? As if she would stop in some crappy diner in the middle of the desert!

Was Ellen Burstyn offered the tv role and turned it down? It's interesting that the diner sequence is only a small part of the movie but that's what the series was based on. I'd rather see Alice and Tommy traveling around in a station wagon while Alice tries to sing in nightclubs. Sort of like the Partridge Family or BJ & The Bear. We need more road trip sitcoms. I love that scene where Burstyn is in the hotel and just goes off on the kid. That's why she won the Oscar.

by Anonymousreply 143May 26, 2016 8:01 PM

"Got a smile, got a song, for the na-vah-ooooooD"

by Anonymousreply 144May 26, 2016 8:02 PM

I heard a rumor that Linda was so hated on the set that they would sing "there's a new girl in town, and she's a cunt on wheels" behind her back.

by Anonymousreply 145May 26, 2016 8:03 PM

[quote]who the hell told Linda she could sing?

Harold Prince when he cast her in the Broadway musical "A Family Affair."

by Anonymousreply 146May 26, 2016 8:03 PM

I've heard Burstyn was offered the role and turned it down because back then movie stars didn't do TV.

The show when it first started was really a continuation of the movie. We picked up Alice and Tommy exactly where the movie left them off. It was the same universe. They used shots from the movie in the opening credits, after all.

As the show went on, it really became it's own kind of thing.

by Anonymousreply 147May 26, 2016 8:04 PM

I used to be sad. I used to be shy...

by Anonymousreply 148May 26, 2016 8:05 PM

Growing up, my brother (who is 7 years older) told me that the sitcom TAXI was a TV adaptation of TAXI DRIVER, just like ALICE was of ALICE DOESN'T LIVE HERE ANYMORE. Since I wasn't yet allowed to watch TAXI DRIVER, of course, I believed him. For many years. Until I was a full-grown adult.

by Anonymousreply 149May 26, 2016 8:12 PM

It blew my little mind as an 11 year old to see Alice Doesn't Live Here after having watched the show for a long time.

Why was Belle playing Flo??? Who the fuck was "Ruby"?

by Anonymousreply 150May 26, 2016 8:16 PM

It's too bad that the Harvey Keitel character was not adapted for the TV show. It would have been nice to see someone terrorize Linda Lavin on a weekly basis.

by Anonymousreply 151May 26, 2016 8:21 PM

[quote]Actually having looked it up now, maybe not. Lutter went to Sanford and got an M.S. He's currently a broadcast executive. Hm.

Well I have BDF, that's important too.

by Anonymousreply 152May 26, 2016 8:36 PM

[quote]Why was Belle playing Flo??? Who the fuck was "Ruby"?

Belle was the original Flo and Ruby was Mel's late wife who didn't exist on the TV show.

Alice was a really watered down version of the movie. Only What's Happening which was supposedly based on Cooley High was watered down more.

by Anonymousreply 153May 26, 2016 8:37 PM

[quote]Remember the Dr. Joyce Brothers episode? As if she would stop in some crappy diner in the middle of the desert!

That was explained simply by saying Mel's was famous for it's chili. They had quite a few episodes about Mel getting written up in the press and how he was known for his excellent chili.

That coupled with the fact Mel's was located off the highway and that made it popular with truckers. Of course we the viewers would only see the diner during its downtime usually. So thus you'd have celebrities breaking down off the major highway were Mel's was located.

I liked the fact that after Flo drove a semi into the diner and destroyed it, each year they'd have new ways of wrecking Mel's once a year. Like bodybuilder lifting the diner up. A hot air balloon crashing into it and so on.

by Anonymousreply 154May 26, 2016 8:41 PM

R154 I hope Mel had insurance.

by Anonymousreply 155May 26, 2016 8:42 PM

[quote]who the hell told Linda she could sing? Seriously, her rendition of the theme song is horrible! She can't even maintain a tune or rhythm or anything.

I tend to agree. Well Lavin can hold a tune, but she'd just an average singer, not much more. When all the character in a show have to tell the audience how "good" a singer someone is, that is a sure sign they suck. Nell Carter was another average singer, who was made out to be better than she was.

Actually the first year, Lavin was good on the theme song. The second year when they changed the lyrics, (after it became obvioius she was going to stay more than just "awhile") she was OK. But it got WORSE AND WORSE each year.

Lavin was originally approached by CBS to find a series for her and she wanted to do a variety series like Carol Burnett where she could sing, dance and do comedy. But CBS knew that was a dying genre so they said if she'd agree to do Alice they'd let her sing the theme and work some music into it.

Much like the producers of Designing Women cut a deal with the conservative Dixie Carter, who was not thrilled with having to do more and more liberal tirades. They said, if Carter would continue to do the liberal stuff, they'd work in a few chances for her to sing on the show, which is what she liked.

by Anonymousreply 156May 26, 2016 8:47 PM

[quote]I hope Mel had insurance.

Apparently good insurance, because by the next episode it was fixed.

by Anonymousreply 157May 26, 2016 8:47 PM

Dr. Joyce Brothers was the Guy Fieri of the 1970s.

by Anonymousreply 158May 26, 2016 8:47 PM

I always liked Lavin as the pushy detective Wentworth on "Barney Miller. She and Max Gail who played Wojo were funny together. Perhaps her pushiness worked better in NYC?

by Anonymousreply 159May 26, 2016 8:49 PM

Didn't Lavin's Alice come from Jersey? In the film Alice is from Monterey, which is where she's attempting to return to before getting sidetracked in Arizona. I thought they recast Tommy because Lutter was not ageing well, though, in looking at him now, Mckeon wasn't really a step up in the looks department. Lutter was terrific in the film, McKeon wasn't capable of that sort of performance level and his role diminished significantly as the series continued.

by Anonymousreply 160May 26, 2016 8:55 PM

[quote]When all the character in a show have to tell the audience how "good" a singer someone is, that is a sure sign they suck. Nell Carter was another average singer, who was made out to be better than she was.

Reminds me of CHEERS and how they often tried to push the meme that Ted Danson was a drop dead gorgeous hunk. Seriously, Diane and others (even the guys) would constantly point out what a hunk Sam was,. I was like... no. He looked too much like Lurch or Frankenstein's monster for my tastes.

by Anonymousreply 161May 26, 2016 8:57 PM

[quote]Dr. Joyce Brothers was the Guy Fieri of the 1970s.

Remember when she got stranded in Raytown in Mama's Family?

by Anonymousreply 162May 26, 2016 9:02 PM

R162 and whens he guest-starred as herself twice on THE NANNY as Fran's therapist.

by Anonymousreply 163May 26, 2016 9:13 PM

R117, actually, Belle!s catchphrase was "Butter my biscuits!"

by Anonymousreply 164May 26, 2016 9:15 PM

I thought Belle was always referring to Belle's Bells.

by Anonymousreply 165May 26, 2016 9:16 PM

Alfred Lutter only did the pilot. The reason he was let go is that he had a huge growth spurt in the few months after taping the pilot, and they wanted someone who read younger.

by Anonymousreply 166May 26, 2016 9:17 PM

For the longest time, I thought that Beth Howland also played 'Agnes DiPesto' on MOONLIGHTING.

by Anonymousreply 167May 26, 2016 9:26 PM

I'm in agreement with the poster upthread whose head nearly exploded to read claims by some idiot that Howland was an egotistical jerk and a fame whore. Even if it was a joke, it's a particularly lame one.

Who ARE you losers who write shit like that?

by Anonymousreply 168May 26, 2016 9:26 PM

Time has not been kind to Alfred Lutter. And he looks like a Reublican.

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by Anonymousreply 169May 26, 2016 9:27 PM

[quote]he reason he was let go is that he had a huge growth spurt in the few months after taping the pilot,

As opposed the the decidedly diminutive Phillip McKeon

by Anonymousreply 170May 26, 2016 9:28 PM

Lavin sounds great singing "You've Got Possibilities" in the Superman musical.

by Anonymousreply 171May 26, 2016 9:29 PM

Time has been pretty kind to Alfred Lutter. I'm not sure what I was expecting based on your cunty comment. What's wrong with you?

by Anonymousreply 172May 26, 2016 9:31 PM

[quote]Time has been pretty kind to Alfred Lutter. I'm not sure what I was expecting based on your cunty comment. What's wrong with you?

Especially compared to Phillip "BDF" McKeon

[quote]the reason he was let go is that he had a huge growth spurt in the few months after taping the pilot,

That was the original DJ on Roseanne.

by Anonymousreply 173May 26, 2016 9:45 PM

[quote]Worst rhinoplasty in the history of medicine.

Ahem!

by Anonymousreply 174May 26, 2016 9:49 PM

Think again, Zsa Zsa.

by Anonymousreply 175May 26, 2016 9:52 PM

R92, that's TERRIBLE. Did your parents ever get OVER it; are you in touch today? Damn straight people, anyway.

by Anonymousreply 176May 26, 2016 9:53 PM

R173, no, the original DJ (who also only appeared in the pilot) Sal Barone was terrorized on the set by Sara Gilbert, so his mother pulled him out of the show. Good thing 'cause Michael Fishman was very believable as Roseanne's mini-me.

Here, Sarah Gilbert discusses via satellite the situation on Roseanne's late '90s talk show.

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by Anonymousreply 177May 26, 2016 9:58 PM

No the original DJ was let go because he grew too much.

Just like the original Chris on the Partridge Family, though it was claimed he was a terror on the set, no one can really come up with any other reason than the official one, his family relocated. It's only after years and decades that someone "conveniently remembered he was horrible?

Or like Florence Henderson and the rest of the Brady's have flip flopped so much on whether or not they new about Robert Reed being gay.

[quote]Eagle-eyed viewers have often commented on how different DJ looked in the pilot as compared to later episodes. That's because the character of the youngest Conner son was originally played by Sal Barone. Shortly after the pilot was filmed in 1988, the Writers Guild went on strike. When production resumed after the long hiatus, it was discovered that Barone had grown. Not to NBA proportions, but enough to make the producers nervous "“ if he'd gained half an inch of height at age eight, how long would it be before DJ got taller than his older sisters? By mutual agreement, Sal Barone left the show and was replaced by Roseanne-lookalike Michael Fishman.

From Roseanne's website

by Anonymousreply 178May 26, 2016 10:10 PM

R178 then how do you explain what's reported on Roseanne's own talk show at R177?

by Anonymousreply 179May 26, 2016 10:16 PM

Burstyn's real son had a cameo in the movie, playing the neighborhood friend of Tommy.

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by Anonymousreply 180May 26, 2016 10:27 PM

[quote] I wonder if she had it in her contract that she must do a musical number in a set amount of shows per season.

Fabulous idea.

by Anonymousreply 181May 26, 2016 11:15 PM

Weird!

by Anonymousreply 182May 26, 2016 11:19 PM

R182 that made me laugh.

Alice is pretty good in season one. I can remember a scene in season 1 where Flo sleeps over at Alice's place. Flo asks "Alice, do you love me?". It was a very nice moment that perpetual single and alone Flo had found a sort of family for herself.

That kind of stuff didn't last long. Soon there were silly plots about Alice pretending to be Robert Goulet.

by Anonymousreply 183May 26, 2016 11:26 PM

[quote][R182] that made me laugh.

How come?

by Anonymousreply 184May 26, 2016 11:41 PM

Just because it was a very specific and obscure reference. And it's exactly what Audrey WOULD say about this thread.

by Anonymousreply 185May 26, 2016 11:44 PM

[quote]OP, Beth Howland died on December 31, 2015 -- that's not even FIVE months yet! It's actually only four months and 26 days.

She was Old Man 2015's birthday present to Baby New Year 2016, kicking off his celebrity-killing spree.

by Anonymousreply 186May 26, 2016 11:44 PM

R185 Audrey who?

by Anonymousreply 187May 26, 2016 11:46 PM

I miss Beth

by Anonymousreply 188May 27, 2016 12:17 AM

Look up the movie the TV series was based on, r187.

by Anonymousreply 189May 27, 2016 12:18 AM

Audrey Landers, Rose.

by Anonymousreply 190May 27, 2016 12:21 AM

Why did Howland divorce Pollard? They were married for nearly a decade.

by Anonymousreply 191May 27, 2016 12:22 AM

R187 Audrey was Jodie Foster's character in Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore. She was around the same age as Tommy, but much more, um, experienced. She gets him drunk, and they wind up at the country jail. Alice picks up Tommy.

When Tommy talks about his life with his mom and stuff like that, Audrey always comments "Weirrrd"

by Anonymousreply 192May 27, 2016 12:26 AM

R192 thanks! I guess i should watch the movie.

by Anonymousreply 193May 27, 2016 12:30 AM

Phillip McKeon grew over the course of the show. In Lutter's case, he was noticeably taller than in the pilot. They wanted a "kid" for the show, and Lutter was a gangly teen by the time shooting would begin. He was already 14, they never should have had him do the pilot.

by Anonymousreply 194May 27, 2016 12:50 AM

Fuck Alfred Lutter and Phillip McKeon and especially fuck Linda Lavin! I, the one who died, this thread is about ME, you bitches!

by Anonymousreply 195May 27, 2016 12:56 AM

I'm with R176. At least you're able to laugh about it, R92. Hope things are much better for you now.

by Anonymousreply 196May 27, 2016 1:09 AM

Sorry Beth/R195. By the way, is Martha Raye up there?

by Anonymousreply 197May 27, 2016 1:40 AM

Here's Michael J. Pollard losing the Oscar for Best Supporting Actor of 1967 to George Kennedy.

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by Anonymousreply 198May 27, 2016 1:51 AM

[quote] She was Old Man 2015's birthday present to Baby New Year 2016, kicking off his celebrity-killing spree.

I was! I was!

Unforgettable, bitches!

by Anonymousreply 199May 27, 2016 1:59 AM

Why do all these female celebrity nose jobs cause their noses to virtually disappear in old age?

I'm looking at you Ann Miller, Marlo Thomas, Nanette Fabray, Zsa Zsa Gabor and Beth Howland!!

by Anonymousreply 200May 27, 2016 3:19 AM

Phillip McKeon spoke about her passing.

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by Anonymousreply 201May 27, 2016 3:26 AM

I might be wrong, but I thought Beth Howland did some voice over work on television commercials

by Anonymousreply 202May 27, 2016 3:52 AM

[quote] That was explained simply by saying Mel's was famous for it's chili. They had quite a few episodes about Mel getting written up in the press and how he was known for his excellent chili.

It gave me heartburn!

by Anonymousreply 203May 27, 2016 4:02 AM

Linda Lain is fabulous in that song from "Superman." It really did make her a star (just as the title number from the Broaday musical "Applause" made Bonnie Franklin a star, although Franklin was far less vocally talented than Lavin and was more of a dancer).

Unfortunately, she kept working in those weird jazz riffs into the "Alice" opening number that no one liked when they changed it each year, so people think she's not a good singer.

by Anonymousreply 204May 27, 2016 4:06 AM

R204 if nobody liked it, then why did she keep doing it?

by Anonymousreply 205May 27, 2016 4:22 AM

[quote]Linda Lain is fabulous in that song from "Superman."

That sounds like a Freudian slip. I have been lain, you have been lain, he, she, it has been lain . . .

by Anonymousreply 206May 27, 2016 4:26 AM

Linda Lain sounds like a Superman love interest, e.g. Lois Lane, Lana Lang.

by Anonymousreply 207May 27, 2016 4:39 AM

It helped her career that it is the ONLY good song in Superman.

by Anonymousreply 208May 27, 2016 12:36 PM

[quote]It gave me heartburn!—Henry the Lineman

Which is why he wasn't the Top Cat

by Anonymousreply 209May 27, 2016 12:53 PM

R91, I remember that suicide attempt episode, but I thought it was kind of ridiculous. If someone overdoses on pills, making them walk around a diner all night isn't going to prevent them from dying..I did think the Facts of Life did a pretty good job handling suicide. It was a student at Eastland who appeared to have it all...it's a Very Special Episode, but I remember gasping at the news of her death. Was surprised a show geared towards youth would go there, especially back in the early 80's.

by Anonymousreply 210May 27, 2016 2:59 PM

Anyone remember the episode or two where Vera was actually smart and articulate? I remember one show where she was talking with Alice and said that something Alice said was "very poignant but how does that help me" or something like that. She wasn't a ditzy broad, as Mel would say.

by Anonymousreply 211May 27, 2016 3:08 PM

My WASP Dad's side of the family is like Beth -- no announcement, no service. The first time when it happened with Dad's sister, ethnic Mom's side of the family prepped for the usual gathering/wake/funeral/ luncheon and were stopped in their tracks by...nothing. You could see the trauma wash over them.

by Anonymousreply 212May 27, 2016 3:34 PM

[quote]Much like the producers of Designing Women cut a deal with the conservative Dixie Carter, who was not thrilled with having to do more and more liberal tirades. They said, if Carter would continue to do the liberal stuff, they'd work in a few chances for her to sing on the show, which is what she liked.

I'm sure Bea Arthur must have made the same deal. She sings on both Maude and Golden Girls. Remember the episode of GG where she sings "What'll I Do?" Were they in a gay bar when she sang that?

by Anonymousreply 213May 27, 2016 4:07 PM

R211 yes! That's like I was saying. Vera was a much more interesting character in the first season (maybe it was even just the first handful of episodes). She was more like movie-Vera, instead of just seeming to be mentally challenged.

The whole show had the more melancholy flavor of the movie than it eventually did. Robert Getchell, who wrote the movie, created the series and wrote early episodes. Later, Bob Carroll Jr. and Madelyn Pugh (I Love Lucy writers) took over, and it was obvious when they did.

I believe Desi Arnaz Jr. did his final acting job (certainly his final sitcom appearance) on Alice. He was good too! Also, Dick Sargent appeared (William Asher directed some episodes), and then there was George Burns' memorable appearance when Vera though he was actually God.

by Anonymousreply 214May 27, 2016 4:16 PM

Don't forget Martha Raye as Mel's mother. She probably out-cunted Lavin on the set.

by Anonymousreply 215May 27, 2016 4:17 PM

R215, yup. Carrie Sharples. Was Raye known to be difficult?

by Anonymousreply 216May 27, 2016 4:20 PM

Don't forget the gay episode. The gay man wanted to take Tommy on a camping trip. And Alice had to make a "very special" decision.

by Anonymousreply 217May 27, 2016 4:21 PM

Best choppers in the business

by Anonymousreply 218May 27, 2016 4:21 PM

R217 yes! I'm not so sure I would have let Tommy go even if the guy were str8!!

by Anonymousreply 219May 27, 2016 4:23 PM

Few knew how Vic Tayback was an occasional player in that amateur porn created by Bob Crane

by Anonymousreply 220May 27, 2016 4:36 PM

Wasn't Art Carney Vera's uncle or something ?

by Anonymousreply 221May 27, 2016 4:39 PM

Is that true, r220? I want to see it.

by Anonymousreply 222May 27, 2016 4:40 PM

[quote]Don't forget the gay episode. The gay man wanted to take Tommy on a camping trip. And Alice had to make a "very special" decision.

That was that hot surfer from the Gilligan's Island episode. Where Alice is "thankful" that her teen age son was drinking beer rather than engaging in homosexual activity

by Anonymousreply 223May 27, 2016 6:18 PM

R223 really? That was an episode of ALICE? I always figured the '70s were more accepting. It was post sexual revolution and the decriminalization of homosexuality.

by Anonymousreply 224May 27, 2016 7:01 PM

Philip McKeon's FB.....shows that he's a right winger with Hannity as his best buddy.

Ugh.

He's also ugly as fuck now. Sad such a hot younger guy turned into such a possumy-looking older man.

by Anonymousreply 225May 27, 2016 7:37 PM

Sorry if already posted, but Lavin singing "You've Got Possibilities"on the OBC recording of "Superman"

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by Anonymousreply 226May 27, 2016 7:42 PM

Mel's' chili was a well-known commodity. One of my favorite episodes featured he and the waitresses appearing on the Dinah Shore show and preparing the chili in Dinah's kitchen set. I believe it was chosen as the best chili in the Southwest. Dinah and Linda Lavin perform a duet at the end--"Please Don't Talk About Me When I'm Gone".

by Anonymousreply 227May 27, 2016 8:01 PM

[quote]Dinah and Linda Lavin perform a duet at the end--"Please Don't Talk About Me When I'm Gone".

We're waiting, Linda.

by Anonymousreply 228May 27, 2016 8:17 PM

I don't why people like chili. It just makes you gassy and gives you the runs. What's fun about that?

by Anonymousreply 229May 27, 2016 8:22 PM

Burstyn wasn't offered the part because there was no chance she would take it.

The movie version was low budget and the producers asked if she would prefer to take a reduced salary with a nice piece of the back end. She was going through a acrimonious divorce and needed the money so she declined. She said it was the worst decision she ever made because the deal would have given her a nice piece of the profits from the tv show including syndication.

by Anonymousreply 230May 27, 2016 8:23 PM

I don't think the film of ALICE DOESN'T LIVE HERE ANY MORE was so much "low-budget" as just simply a great 70s movie and cost and looked like most great 70s movies.

by Anonymousreply 231May 27, 2016 8:27 PM

Yep to all of that, r225. He's also Facebook friends with Michelle Bachmann and Jesus Christ. LOL.

by Anonymousreply 232May 27, 2016 8:30 PM

ALICE DOESN'T LIVE HERE ANYMORE was low-budget. It had a production budget of $1.8 million, which is the equivalent of about $8 million today. Low budget is considered anything below $20 million (in today's dollars).

by Anonymousreply 233May 27, 2016 8:43 PM

I'll bet Martha Raye kept the crew happy with her famous gum jobs.

by Anonymousreply 234May 27, 2016 8:47 PM

[quote] She said it was the worst decision she ever made because the deal would have given her a nice piece of the profits from the tv show including syndication.

There was also a way bigger divide, in terms of perceptions of status and stardom, between TV and film in those days. Taking a TV show would have been a step down and a permanent one at that, whereas now we have performers who go back and forth.

by Anonymousreply 235May 27, 2016 9:10 PM

Sorry, but Lavin on that Superman song is just as fucking grating and annoying as anything she did on Alice, only it's in a higher key.

by Anonymousreply 236May 27, 2016 9:11 PM

[quote]I'll bet Martha Raye kept the crew happy with her famous gum jobs.

Take it from the big mouth!

by Anonymousreply 237May 27, 2016 9:36 PM

R230 is Burstyn the actress who can't afford her Manhattan apartment or some such? Perhaps those ALICE residuals would come in handy now.

by Anonymousreply 238May 27, 2016 9:45 PM

That's Dianne Wiest. Tina Fey and Amy Poehler threw her a bone and cast her in that awful POS movie they recently did.

by Anonymousreply 239May 27, 2016 9:46 PM

If I understand correctly, Burstyn could have had a piece of the show had she taken the offer of a back end as she began the film

by Anonymousreply 240May 27, 2016 9:50 PM

That's even if she never appeared in the show

She took the upfront fee instead

by Anonymousreply 241May 27, 2016 9:52 PM

Why didn't Burstyn ever guest-star as a different character, like Diane Ladd's 'Belle'? A simple guest spot wouldn't have hurt her film career.

by Anonymousreply 242May 27, 2016 10:56 PM

As another poster said, there were TV stars and Movie stars back then. It was until the late 80s when the divide begin to really vanish.

I recall after his success in Back To The Future, Siskel and Ebert called Michael J Fox a TV star that got lucky but would always remain basically a TV star.

John Travolta was one of the first to really go from TV to movies in a big way. That followed by Sally Field and Cher and one could even arguably throw in George Burns but that's a stretch.

by Anonymousreply 243May 27, 2016 11:02 PM

Abuela.

by Anonymousreply 244May 27, 2016 11:04 PM

R243, I'm going to Google one of my black children and have them fcuk you up.

by Anonymousreply 245May 27, 2016 11:23 PM

Wasn't James Garner a TV star before he became a movie star?

by Anonymousreply 246May 27, 2016 11:25 PM

Wiest also is now on that dreadful CBS show so she has some regular salary.

I never worry about such details.

by Anonymousreply 247May 27, 2016 11:25 PM

This thread is about BETH HOWLAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 248May 27, 2016 11:26 PM

Clint started in tv as well

by Anonymousreply 249May 27, 2016 11:27 PM

Besides Garner, Steve McQueen and Clint Eastwood also began as TV stars.

Not sure if any women ever accomplished this feat.

by Anonymousreply 250May 27, 2016 11:29 PM

R249 Clint who?

by Anonymousreply 251May 27, 2016 11:29 PM

Eastwood

by Anonymousreply 252May 27, 2016 11:30 PM

R250 = That Dory woman.

by Anonymousreply 253May 27, 2016 11:33 PM

Scratch that. R250 = Lois Chiles. Still bitter about losing out.

by Anonymousreply 254May 27, 2016 11:34 PM

Didn't robin Williams start on tv as well?

by Anonymousreply 255May 27, 2016 11:36 PM

This is recent but Jennifer Aniston. She did plenty of TV, including a sitcom version of FERRIS BUELLER (she played the Jennifer Grey role), but it wasn't until FRIENDS that she finally struck gold. During its 10th season run, she did movies here and there, but after the show wrapped up in 2004, she's been mainly a film star. In fact, the only TV she does is the talk show circuit.

by Anonymousreply 256May 27, 2016 11:39 PM

Goldie Hawn!

by Anonymousreply 257May 27, 2016 11:40 PM

Ryan O'Neal and... and...

by Anonymousreply 258May 27, 2016 11:41 PM

This is why I didn't want any of you cunts to know I was dead! This thread is supposed to be about ME!

by Anonymousreply 259May 27, 2016 11:43 PM

I feel like such a negligent gay man but I had no idea that Vera was married to Jim Dial!

by Anonymousreply 260May 27, 2016 11:57 PM

What r260 said

by Anonymousreply 261May 27, 2016 11:59 PM

I thought Howland and Kimbrough married shortly after appearing in the original production of COMPANY, but Wikipedia says they were only married in 2002, over thirty years later. Is this one of those cases where people meet, drift apart for years, and then reconnect decacdes later?

by Anonymousreply 262May 28, 2016 12:16 AM

Burt Reynolds began as a TV actor . . . Riverboat, Gunsmoke, Dan August, Hawk.

by Anonymousreply 263May 28, 2016 12:25 AM

"That's Dianne Wiest. Tina Fey and Amy Poehler threw her a bone and cast her in that awful POS movie they recently did."

She's also in that current series playing James Brolin's wife.

by Anonymousreply 264May 28, 2016 12:26 AM

R283 but was Burt a genuine movie star? I know he appeared in some films, but there were always some TV actors who played character parts in films.

by Anonymousreply 265May 28, 2016 12:27 AM

Those people were on TV but outside of Eastwood were not huge on TV. Goldie Hawn was a "bit player" who did a movie and got lucky.. She didn't establish herself in the movie field till the mid 70s when things started to change.

Cloris Leachman was also in a movie and won an Oscar but no one considered her a "movie star." It takes more than a minor part or being on an ensemble cast to make you a TV star. Warren Beatty was on Dobie Gillis too. He was not a TV star by that measure.

Until the mid to late 70s there was a basic clear line between movie stars and TV stars. TV was a place for washed up movie actors and those who weren't going to make in the movies, though they could, as Leachman proved, get lucky with a role from time to time.

by Anonymousreply 266May 28, 2016 12:53 AM

Mia Farlow made the leap a decade earlier than that. And don't try to spin that she was just a bit player on Peyton Place.

by Anonymousreply 267May 28, 2016 12:56 AM

[quote]Until the mid to late 70s there was a basic clear line between movie stars and TV stars. TV was a place for washed up movie actors and those who weren't going to make in the movies, though they could, as Leachman proved, get lucky with a role from time to time.

In other words, TV was the minor leagues and film was the major leagues?

by Anonymousreply 268May 28, 2016 12:58 AM

Pretty much r268

by Anonymousreply 269May 28, 2016 1:00 AM

Does Tony Danza count as a major motion picture star?

Asking for a friend...

by Anonymousreply 270May 28, 2016 1:02 AM

Sorry, Beth - this thread would have maxed out at 50 replies tops if we were only talking about your career/death.

by Anonymousreply 271May 28, 2016 1:09 AM

A few years later, Ellen was apparently fine with doing a sitcom. (Co-starring DL faves Megan Mullally and Elaine Stritch!)

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by Anonymousreply 272May 28, 2016 1:11 AM

I noticed on Phil's page his pics of Nancy are older (although most of his pics are from when he was younger). I am guessing they are on the different side e of the hannity coin which might cause a bit of tension. Not sure why - but I was surprised to see Catherine Hickland was a Hannity fan.

by Anonymousreply 273May 28, 2016 1:13 AM

No, r266.

James Garner, Steve McQueen, Robin Williams and even Mia Farrow were all major TV stars who all became major movie stars. Eastwood was not the only one.

by Anonymousreply 274May 28, 2016 1:13 AM

Was radio as looked down upon as TV? I wonder, 'cause movie stars often appeared on radio programs, including sometimes providing the voice of their character for a truncated adaptation of their film.

by Anonymousreply 275May 28, 2016 1:16 AM

I don't understand why a cis HIV negative female is getting such love around here? She's been a corpse for 6 months now......

by Anonymousreply 276May 28, 2016 1:17 AM

R275 I think it was different with radio because you still needed to go to the theater to actually SEE the stars, so it wasn't in direct competition with film like TV is.

by Anonymousreply 277May 28, 2016 1:38 AM

R277 but that's my point. Why wasn't radio looked down as 'lesser' medium because, as you stated, you couldn't see the stars or anything. At least with TV it was like having a mini cinema in your living room. How was that not better?

by Anonymousreply 278May 28, 2016 1:44 AM

Radio was seen as a promotional tool in the movie industry. Why look down on, or rather talk down, something that helps your business?

by Anonymousreply 279May 28, 2016 1:49 AM

BRUCE WILLIS.

by Anonymousreply 280May 28, 2016 1:55 AM

R267 -- It's Mia FARROW, dear, not "Farlow."

by Anonymousreply 281May 28, 2016 2:00 AM

TOM HANKS

-Hello Hello

by Anonymousreply 282May 28, 2016 5:27 AM

R277 The point is that it was not COMPETITION. Remember that back then the studio system was in force. Movie studios wouldn't allow their big stars to do television, because then why would people go see them in the theater? You have to protect your investment. Radio was not an issue-- people still had to go to the theater to SEE the stars.

by Anonymousreply 283May 28, 2016 5:52 AM

[quote]one could even arguably throw in George Burns but that's a stretch.

Burns and Allen were frequent film performers throughout the 1930s. They even sang and danced (surprisingly well) in the movies. In the 1940s they concentrated on radio. Throughout their run on TV in the 1950s Burns and Allen were thought of as an old radio act. George was going back to his roots when he was re-discovered as a film star in his old age.

by Anonymousreply 284May 28, 2016 6:39 AM

Rip I found her character very annoying

by Anonymousreply 285May 28, 2016 6:42 AM

[quote]was Burt a genuine movie star?

Yes, Burt Reynolds was a genuine movie star, very much so. People forget that Elvis Presley was a huge film star for many years. Both men made a lot of movies that made a lot of money.

by Anonymousreply 286May 28, 2016 6:48 AM

Nice to think that Beth was getting a piece of this...

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by Anonymousreply 287May 28, 2016 8:07 AM

Isn't this the Loni Anderson thread? Who are these other people you're all talking about?

by Anonymousreply 288May 28, 2016 9:45 AM

What about the mid 1959s, when all of those movie stars were falling all over themselves to do guest shots on I Love Lucy? They always played themselves, but John Wayne, Van Johnson, William Holden, Rock Hudson, Cornel Wilde, Richard Widmark - they were big film stars back then, but they weren't afraid of doing a TV guest shot.

by Anonymousreply 289May 28, 2016 10:14 AM

talk about Beth Howland, damnit.

by Anonymousreply 290May 28, 2016 11:00 AM

[quote] I thought Howland and Kimbrough married shortly after appearing in the original production of COMPANY, but Wikipedia says they were only married in 2002, over thirty years later. Is this one of those cases where people meet, drift apart for years, and then reconnect decacdes later?

No, they were together as a couple since that time, but only made it legal in 2002.

by Anonymousreply 291May 28, 2016 11:44 AM

r289, Lucille Ball was the exception. She was as famous as any movie star back then, and a huge part of American culture. Doing a guest shot on I Love Lucy was not the same thing as guesting on a show like Wagon Train.

by Anonymousreply 292May 28, 2016 11:59 AM

The point being, on I Love Lucy they played themselves, so the condescension was complete and obvious.

by Anonymousreply 293May 28, 2016 1:00 PM

A lot of movie stars started their career on TV and went to movies. The minor - major league analogy was good one. The young TV actors who showed they had something extra tried to make it into movies and not return to the small screen (at least while in their prime).

Older movie actors who were on the second half of the career and now more supporting would do some of the anthology shows - Alfred Hitchcock etc., where they were the center of the episode. To take a regular role in TV series was a step down and an acknowledgment that you did not have what it took to be a movie star.

by Anonymousreply 294May 28, 2016 1:18 PM

R283 so, the film studios (and stars) looked down on TV and talked bad about it, because they were threatened and saw it as competition, not because they considered it a lesser medium?

by Anonymousreply 295May 28, 2016 1:48 PM

R287 who's that on the cover of Esquire? Can anyone tell?

by Anonymousreply 296May 28, 2016 1:48 PM

R292 what about stars who did stints like WHAT'S MY LINE? and those types of shows? Wouldn't that be the equivalent today of stars condescending themselves to appear on Hollywood Squares or something?

by Anonymousreply 297May 28, 2016 1:50 PM

Most of the big stars did guest spots on WML.....Paul Newman, Kim Novak, John Wayne, Doris Day, Jimmy Stewart, Lana Turner, Tyrone Power, Elizabeth Taylor, et. al. It was usually to publicize their latest picture.

My god, even Eleanor Roosevelt and Bishop Fulton Sheen appeared as The Mystery Guest.

by Anonymousreply 298May 28, 2016 10:34 PM

How come Marilyn Monroe never did WML or any of those shows? I know she appeared once on PERSON TO PERSON (hosted by Edward Murrow) and a stint on Jack Benny's show, but both were very early in her career, when she was still considered a starlet. Too bad she died just as the late night talk show circuit was starting out. In fact, Johnny Carson debuted on the TONIGHT SHOW two months after her death. It would've been fun to see her in such a setting.

by Anonymousreply 299May 28, 2016 10:42 PM

R299 The Tonight Show existed LONG before Johnny Carson.

by Anonymousreply 300May 28, 2016 10:55 PM

Marilyn was probably scared shitless to appear "live" on What's My Line?.

It was a running joke on WML? that Marilyn would appear as a MG, Bennett Cerf's longtime wish.

On "Person to Person" she had Milton Greene and his wife with her on the "live" broadcast..

by Anonymousreply 301May 28, 2016 11:06 PM

Yes, Charles Kimbrough was funny. and handsome.

lucky rotting corpse!

by Anonymousreply 302May 28, 2016 11:12 PM

R300 -- R299 never said that the Tonight Show didn't exist before Johnny Carson; s/he said that Carson made HIS debut on the Tonight Show two months after MM died.

by Anonymousreply 303May 29, 2016 5:27 PM

R303 My point was that she could've gone on the Tonight Show before she died ... just with another host.

by Anonymousreply 304May 29, 2016 5:51 PM

Wow. Over 300 posts about revered stage & screen thespian, Beth Howland!

by Anonymousreply 305May 29, 2016 6:05 PM

Thanks R303, Yes, I'm aware that THE TONIGHT SHOW had two hosts prior to Carson (Steve Allen, Jack Paar) and the show had been on for like a decade before Carson came along in October 1962. If I'm not mistaken, the talk show format was relegated to THE TONIGHT SHOW when Carson came along and pretty much revolutionized and popularized the format. Then the copycats sprung up.

by Anonymousreply 306May 29, 2016 6:22 PM

[quote]Wow. Over 300 posts about revered stage & screen thespian, Beth Howland!

Stow it, Flo.

by Anonymousreply 307May 29, 2016 6:23 PM

Had it not been for the failing health of Vic Tayback, there would have been a spinoff where Vera marries Mel and they take the blue ribbon chili on the road in a food truck

by Anonymousreply 308May 29, 2016 6:39 PM

…and they'd have called it Alice Doesn't Fart Here Anymore.

by Anonymousreply 309May 29, 2016 7:02 PM

Mel marrying Vera would have been like Jack marrying Janet. Nobody wanted to see that.

by Anonymousreply 310May 29, 2016 7:06 PM

Vera was already married on the show. See Elliot.

by Anonymousreply 311May 29, 2016 7:17 PM

R309 LMAO!

by Anonymousreply 312May 29, 2016 7:20 PM

R307 Kiss mah grits burger brain!!!

by Anonymousreply 313May 29, 2016 7:27 PM

Still dead.

by Anonymousreply 314June 1, 2016 10:18 PM

I wish she'd come back to the diner.

by Anonymousreply 315June 2, 2016 11:38 AM

I also laughed heartily, R312.

by Anonymousreply 316June 7, 2016 8:00 AM

I've been in therapy discussing Beth Howland and how her death affected my life. It's been hard but I am coping.

by Anonymousreply 317June 22, 2016 11:44 AM

It's been a difficult time for many of us, R317.

by Anonymousreply 318June 23, 2016 1:02 PM

I was married to Barry Levinson.

Barry Levinson > Michael J. Pollard + Charles Kimbrough combined.

I win!

by Anonymousreply 319June 23, 2016 1:09 PM

I just watched The Intern (AnnE Hathaway, Robert DeNiro) on HBO. Linda Lavin and Celia Weston in the same movie but not sharing a single scene? EPIC FAIL, Nancy Meyers!

Celia played scatter brained and Linda played a jealous bitch so the casting was actually spot on.

by Anonymousreply 320July 10, 2016 10:06 PM

Michael J. Pollard is still alive at 77. But I noticed he never married again after Beth whom he divorced in 1969. Was he gay?

by Anonymousreply 321July 10, 2016 10:25 PM

It's July now and I'm still mourning the passing of Beth Howland. I don't know if I will get over it.

by Anonymousreply 322July 19, 2016 12:29 PM

I guess that's a legitimate reason for not commenting about her TV husband Coco's death.

by Anonymousreply 323July 18, 2019 6:55 AM
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